IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-03-25
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00:08:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15840 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: complete the game option window widget enum and unify the naming.
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00:15:20 <Belugas> indeed, and time and knowledge is often not going well together
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00:16:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15841 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: the saveload window could draw directory partly outside the window
00:21:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15842 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: make DrawSortButtonState RTL.
00:24:21 <Belugas> pfff.. sometimes, Begin and End are making me sick
00:24:27 <welshdragon> Brianetta: why did you delete my bridge?
00:24:46 <Brianetta> I didn't delete anything
00:24:59 <welshdragon> my company is white
00:25:00 <Brianetta> I joined your company, because, you know, I'd never done that before and it was new.
00:25:07 <Brianetta> Then I lost connection.
00:25:18 <welshdragon> and you deleted my bridge :(
00:25:47 <Brianetta> I didn't delete a thing
00:26:02 <Brianetta> Or did we just desync?
00:26:06 <Brianetta> I suspect the latter
00:26:17 <Brianetta> and that your bridge never was, as far as the server was concerned.
00:26:25 <Belugas> too bad i cannot replace Begin and End by { } in Delphi
00:26:31 <Belugas> wold make my job easier
00:26:40 <Belugas> even at this time of day
00:26:46 <Belugas> day... well... sort of :S
00:26:48 <Brianetta> I don't even know which bridge you're on about (:
00:27:32 <Brianetta> Sacro: You're heading for bankruptcy
00:28:04 <Sacro> Brianetta: that's my old company
00:29:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15843 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: with RTL the caret would always be drawn at the end of the textbox.
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00:43:37 <eMjay88> what do you guys think, should I upgrade my laptop from (Ubuntu) 8.04 to 8.10 or wait until 9.04 comes out?
00:45:37 <Rubidium> upgrading, what's that?
00:45:47 <Belugas> could i suggest yet another option? go for kubuntu
00:46:01 <Belugas> just for the fun of confusing you een more!
00:46:08 * Rubidium has been running the same version for many years now
00:46:57 <HackaLittleBit> Clean the disk and go for puppy linux:)
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00:51:31 <Rubidium> eMjay88: wait for 9.10, cause 9.04 won't have OpenTTD 0.7
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00:55:48 <HackaLittleBit> does anybody has experience with visual irc?
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00:56:55 <Rubidium> I'd say someone has, but we haven't seen him lately
00:57:17 <fonsinchen> especially about using glpk as additional dependency
00:57:47 <Belugas> IT'S TOO REALISTIC!!!
00:57:57 <fonsinchen> sorry, but it isn't
00:58:07 <Belugas> well... i'm arguing...
00:58:08 <Yexo> fonsinchen: don't take Belugas serious :p
00:59:03 <eMjay88> Rubidium: do you mean that 0.7 won't work on Ubuntu < 9.10 or that 0.7 will be included in 9.10?
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00:59:33 <Yexo> fonsinchen: it looks promising, but I don't have time to read such a big patch now
00:59:46 <Rubidium> it's quite likely that 0.7 will be included in 9.10
00:59:50 <fonsinchen1> that's why I broke it up into 5 parts
01:00:05 <Rubidium> as they're leeching it from debian/sid
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01:00:45 <fonsinchen1> well, that might solve the problem with the additional dependency for some, but we shouldn't rely on it.
01:01:44 <Rubidium> so it's yet another cargodest implementation?
01:01:56 <Yexo> fonsinchen1: don't mix two discussions, ubuntu 9.10 will most likely include openttd 0.7
01:01:57 <fonsinchen1> one that actually works
01:02:21 <Rubidium> fonsinchen1: and you know that because nobody reported bugs yet?
01:02:37 <fonsinchen1> no, because it has a clear concept
01:03:00 <fonsinchen1> which adresses all known intrinsic problems with previous attempts
01:03:36 <fonsinchen1> actually it's not fully done yet
01:04:11 <fonsinchen1> so you might as well ignore it for now - I just wanted to inform you about what I'm doing there.
01:05:53 <Rubidium> well... it won't work on platforms that don't have threads. That's what might be considered a big big big no-go
01:06:16 <fonsinchen1> I can serialize the threads
01:06:42 <fonsinchen1> actually I use the openttd thread api
01:07:35 <fonsinchen1> also you do the network stuff in a seperate thread
01:07:38 <Rubidium> using it: yes. Using it incorrectly: yes
01:07:39 <fonsinchen1> and the loading and saving
01:08:09 <Rubidium> loading isn't threaded
01:08:20 <fonsinchen1> Rubidium: what do you mean by incorrect here?
01:09:07 <Rubidium> the network stuff, saving and newgame check the return value of new and in case that no thread was made it runs the actually thread instead of ignoring it
01:09:38 <fonsinchen1> That's a small detail. I can implement that
01:10:17 <fonsinchen1> I don't have to run all of the computation at once either
01:10:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15844 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp console_gui.cpp gfx.cpp gfx_func.h): -Codechange: allow text alignment to be forced so the console and ai debug output don't get swapped (those are untranslateable anyways)
01:10:48 <fonsinchen1> I can stretch it over several OnTick_LinkGraph calls
01:11:09 <Belugas> have you started from the actual cargo dest (as much as concept, not code)?
01:11:22 <fonsinchen1> I had a look at it, yes
01:11:36 <fonsinchen1> but I found it too restrictive to actually use the code
01:11:41 <fonsinchen1> except for the smallmap
01:14:42 <Belugas> impressively big piece
01:17:31 <Belugas> i'm wondering: demand_pax and all the others, could they disappear and be replaced by something more... open, more... hem.. flexible?
01:17:48 <Belugas> or maybe im not viewing it all...
01:18:52 <fonsinchen1> I grouped them by relevant cargo classes
01:19:12 <Rubidium> and what when they collide?
01:19:24 <fonsinchen1> the configuration settings only represent a subset of what could be done if the settings system was more flexible
01:19:33 <fonsinchen1> then there is a hierarchy
01:19:50 <fonsinchen1> passengers > mail > express > armoured > rest
01:20:09 <fonsinchen1> see InitializeDemands
01:20:24 <Rubidium> I rather see Sleep ;)
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01:20:38 <fonsinchen1> good idea actually
01:24:18 <Belugas> settings.h is a bit of a mess, but i guess it's not really surprising with the CAPACITY_SV and such
01:24:39 <Belugas> watch out, i've spotted a few tabs in there
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01:24:55 <fonsinchen1> yes, these are temporary defines, so that I don't have to edit in 20 places when I change the savegame version
01:25:24 <fonsinchen1> oh, I thought I cought them all ... I'll have a second look
01:28:56 <Belugas> the very last chunk of smallmap_gui, you removed the vehicle follow code
01:30:17 <fonsinchen1> cargodest does it
01:30:23 <fonsinchen1> I didn't change it
01:30:53 <fonsinchen1> Basically I took the smallmap from cargodest and modified to suit my needs.
01:31:32 <fonsinchen1> But I'll try to find out what the reason for that was.
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01:38:32 <Belugas> could eventually ask petern, but i guess it would be better to ask Celestar
01:38:57 <Belugas> SLEG_CONDVAR( _num_links, SLE_UINT16, CAPACITIES_SV, SL_MAX_VERSION),
01:39:27 <fonsinchen1> thanks, I must have missed that
01:39:58 <Belugas> me eyes hurt... to many lines
01:41:58 <Belugas> in your patch, onmy screen, in from of my glasses
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02:10:56 <thingwath> it looks too bright in my terminal
02:18:11 <thingwath> but yes, it's nice, I just want something darker :)
02:21:01 <thingwath> (I use Microsoft's Consolas :))
02:24:04 <thingwath> which should be very simmilar, but in gnome terminal it isn't, bug, possibly?
02:24:46 <thingwath> or the freetype hinting issue?
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03:33:24 <eMjay88> Anyone have any ideas of how to implement a fifo train intersection patch?
03:34:38 <eMjay88> I'm thinking you'd need to have a list of signals that enter a particular region, and then a simple queue that applies for that region
03:36:05 <Sacro> i need to use sudo when running my server
03:36:08 <Sacro> that sucks balls in screenshots
03:36:31 <Sacro> I guess I'll use sample output
03:38:43 <racetrack> eMjay88: I'm guessing currently it just does it in whatever order it loops through the trains right?
03:40:28 <racetrack> that sounds right, attaching a queue to a signal block. trouble is that a signal block doesn't really exist as a discrete entity, its just the extent that ExploreSegment() goes looking
03:42:14 <racetrack> maybe you could do something with ExploreSegment() or something similar to go looking for all the signals attached to this block, and from there have a queue of all the vehicles waiting to enter the block. that'd need to be hooked up to the track layout changing though
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03:46:50 <racetrack> yeah it does, doesn't it
03:48:11 <racetrack> maybe then you could somehow join signals to each other .. eg put them in a linked list of all the entry points into a block
03:48:33 <racetrack> then you're only doing heavy searching when you place them, and iirc that search already happens then anyway
03:48:55 <racetrack> I don't really have the code in front of me so I'm just speculating right now, but thats sorta where I'd start looking
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03:55:57 <eMjay88> unless you make a SignalBlock entity
03:56:05 <eMjay88> that gets generated when you place a signal
03:56:20 <eMjay88> and contains a list of signals that are "entries" and a list of "exits"
03:56:45 <eMjay88> that would also speed up regular signalling because you don't have to search everytime, right?
03:57:04 <racetrack> well the search every time is to find out if there's a train currently in the block
03:57:19 <eMjay88> is that every game loop? surely not
03:57:35 <racetrack> though you could track that in the SignalBlock too
03:57:41 <racetrack> nah only when a train wants to pass a signal
03:58:03 <racetrack> and some other cases, but no, not every tick
03:58:48 <eMjay88> well then, when a train gets to a signalblock entrance, it registers itself in the "waiting" queue and the signal block greens the first signal in the queue when it becomes empty
03:59:32 <eMjay88> so I guess that moves the computation to when you're setting up the signals
03:59:52 <Sacro> would be nice to redo the signalling system
04:00:00 <eMjay88> but it may be slightly easier, instead of having to explore every branch for signals, you just have to find one and join that signal block
04:00:00 <Sacro> YAPP is very good but there needs another overhaul
04:00:08 <Sacro> to sort out signals on bridges/in tunnels
04:00:23 <eMjay88> :O that would be awesome
04:01:41 <eMjay88> ok, so tell me if i'm wrong here, when a signal is placed, it searches the track behind the light
04:02:02 <eMjay88> if it finds no other signal, it creates a new SignalBlock and adds itself
04:02:15 <eMjay88> if it finds another signal, it adds itself to the found signal's SignalBlock
04:02:29 <eMjay88> (as an entrance, exit or both)
04:02:58 <eMjay88> the SignalBlock then manages all the signals that are in it's list
04:04:18 <eMjay88> does that sound like it would work?
04:04:48 <racetrack> yeah sounds reasonable
04:05:11 <eMjay88> sadly I have no idea how the signals work now, so no idea where to start :P
04:05:13 <racetrack> need to be able to merge them etc
04:05:21 <racetrack> if you delete a signal or whatever
04:05:40 <racetrack> ExploreSegment() in signal.cpp is the big thing to understand
04:05:55 <eMjay88> oh yeah, so if a signal is removed, the SignalBlocks that it was an entrance and exit to get merged
04:06:11 <racetrack> and I only know about it because I've had to twist it quite a bit to get drive-through depots to work
04:06:39 <eMjay88> I'll try to do some research soon (short on time lately :S)
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04:06:49 <racetrack> the basic gist is that code outside signal.cpp adds interesting tiles (eg the current location of a vehicle) to a set and then calls UpdateSignalsInBlock() (or something like that anyway)
04:06:58 <racetrack> which eventually gets down into ExploreSegment()
04:07:04 <racetrack> which loops through all the tiles/directions in the set
04:07:18 <racetrack> for each one, it determines which tile to go to next and in which direction, and adds it to the end of the set
04:07:29 <racetrack> based on possible exits from that tile/track
04:07:48 <racetrack> with signals, depots, etc being "end of line" (ie nothing added to set)
04:08:07 <racetrack> while its doing this, its looking at each tile for trains and other interesting things and setting flags appropriately
04:08:17 <racetrack> so when if finishes, you get a set of bits describing what it found in the block
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04:13:43 <eMjay88> like all the flags/enums?
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04:14:22 <racetrack> enum SigFlags in signal.cpp
04:15:25 <racetrack> hmm this is very interesting
04:22:15 <eMjay88> ok, so which one gets called to initiate the update?
04:22:39 <eMjay88> a train adds all the track that it covers using AddTrackToSignalBuffer?
04:23:07 <eMjay88> then uses UpdateSignalsInBuffer?
04:25:17 <racetrack> UpdateSignalsOnSegment is used mostly ..
04:25:41 <racetrack> it usually starts at a single tile, the train doesn't need to add all the track it covers
04:25:49 <racetrack> the segment walker will sort all that out
04:26:30 <racetrack> TrainMovedChangeSignals looks like the main call in train_cmd
04:27:01 <racetrack> the other calls to UpdateSignalsOnSegment are a bit more situational
04:27:12 <racetrack> (reversing, leaving a depot, cleaning up after a crash)
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04:30:59 <eMjay88> So if I were to create a
04:31:28 <eMjay88> ok, currently a Signal block is referred to as a signal segment right?
04:31:48 <eMjay88> ie: SIGSEG_FREE, SIGSEG_FULL, SIGSEG_PBS
04:32:38 <eMjay88> and UpdateSignalsOnSegment returns the state of the segment that the tile that is passed in is in
04:32:58 <eMjay88> yep, i think it makes sense :P
04:33:35 <racetrack> my first answer was "no", then I reread and reparsed all the ins and ises
04:40:55 <eMjay88> what is the "Buffer" is that _globset?
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04:42:17 <racetrack> you load up the globset, transfer it into the tbdset and go searching
04:42:32 <racetrack> the assertions all over signal.cpp suggest its supposed to be that way
04:43:12 <eMjay88> yeah from what I can see, you seed your search with _globset
04:45:34 <eMjay88> then, UpdateSignalsInBuffer populates _tbdset and calls ExploreSegment
04:49:43 <eMjay88> and ExploreSegment loops over the set of tiles in _tbdset looking for signal type tiles, adding them to _tbuset
04:50:22 <eMjay88> then using the flags that are returned from ExploreSegment, UpdateSignalsAroundSegment set the signal tiles in _tbuset
04:52:08 <racetrack> I think so. which is to say, it sounds pretty close to my own understanding but this code confused me for quite a while, and I deciphered it on my own. so there's a chance we're both completely off and we've never know
04:52:26 <racetrack> but it seems like a reasonably sane way to do it, so lets say it is
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05:35:02 <eMjay88> just had one myself :P
05:39:13 <goodger> I must find somewhere that sells relentless
05:54:11 <goodger> I don't really love it as a drink, it's just the most concentrated source of caffeine I can find
05:54:20 <goodger> ...that isn't some form of coffee
05:55:03 <Forked> doh.. 2MB file limit on forums :\
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08:42:08 <Carved> is it possible to find out the seed number after starting the map?
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08:50:56 <dihedral> open the console and type getseed
08:51:05 <Forked> dumdidum. I need more coffee...
08:51:28 <dihedral> i am not sure though if the seed is stored in a save game
08:51:35 <dihedral> and if it is, it does not have to be correct
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09:29:27 <DASPRiD> dihedral, afaik it is stored
09:29:49 <DASPRiD> its required for the landscape :)
09:33:35 <dihedral> well, if the sav was created in the scenario editor, then the seed would be wrong :P
09:34:07 <petern> it's not required for anything after the map is created
09:49:36 <Forked> only two more posts and I'll have last post in all openttd forums... (except noai, but thats a subforum!)
09:51:09 <Rubidium> that's just because Hyronymus told to ignore newbies (and I reckon people who can't be bothered to read threads)
09:52:19 <Forked> my posts are not random gibberish :\ well except one of them
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10:15:14 <TodeLoo> Ok Ok playin a bit :)
10:16:11 <dihedral> so you need 2 clients? ^^
10:16:20 <TodeLoo> Todeloo is HackaLittleBit :)
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10:23:17 <petern> # jesus chriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiist, save my life
10:23:59 <welshdragon> zomg petern don't sing, it'll rain
10:24:06 <welshdragon> and i have no raincoat
10:24:42 <petern> np: can - she brings the rain
10:25:04 <petern> # she brings the rain, oh yeah
10:25:14 <petern> # in the dawn of a silvery day
10:25:20 <dihedral> hey - just had an idea.....
10:25:20 <petern> # clouds seem to melt away
10:25:22 <petern> # she brings the rain, oh yeah
10:25:31 <dihedral> i assume you dont know which os most servers run on :-)
10:25:38 <dihedral> would be quite nice to gather that kind of data :-P
10:25:55 <petern> i don't particularly care
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10:26:17 <welshdragon> dihedral: probably debian or Windows server
10:26:40 <petern> all the important servers (i.e. mine) run on debian
10:26:49 <dihedral> welshdragon, the OR is what i would like to know about ;-)
10:27:07 <dihedral> petern, the percentage of win -> lin -> mac servers would be interesting ^^
10:27:34 * petern wonders how long scan'll take getting back to him
10:31:00 <petern> np: genesis - silver rainbow
10:31:11 * petern shall summon rain for welshdragon
10:31:49 * welshdragon summons snow for petern
10:32:13 <petern> # to the land that lies
10:32:17 <petern> # beyond the silver rainbow
10:33:23 * dihedral summons gay suicidal "muslim" (please note the quotes) virgins for petern and welshdragon
10:34:19 <welshdragon> dihedralshould be punished
10:35:31 <dihedral> just some very dark sense of humor
10:39:39 <petern> didn't see anything funny there
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10:40:20 <welshdragon> it was quite racist actually
10:41:56 <dihedral> i did highlight the fact that i used quotes
10:42:25 <welshdragon> it can still be taken as a racist comment
10:42:27 <dihedral> wanting to express with that that they 'call' them selves muslim - but any real muslim is sadened by them
10:42:53 <dihedral> whoever understood it as racism: sorry
10:43:07 <petern> more like: whoever understood it: lucky
10:44:14 <dihedral> just like the "christians" you can meet in london on the road shouting out aloud "are you a sinner or a winner" - yay - they are just as rubbish, with the only difference that they dont blow themselves up and kill inocent people
10:56:55 <petern> np: belle & sebastian - another sunny day
10:59:37 <eQualizer> If I want to make a new NewGRF, where do I start reading?
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11:06:55 <racetrack> I'm really feeling like I'm starting to get my head around how openttd hangs together
11:07:01 <racetrack> thats probably pretty naive right?
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11:12:02 <dihedral> racetrack, then you are doing better than some other people who try to patch ^^
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11:15:48 <racetrack> yeah well it hasn't been easy
11:16:04 <racetrack> I have time at least
11:17:41 <racetrack> what's the criteria for getting feature patches into trunk?
11:17:57 <racetrack> won't be long before I consider drive-through depots to be finished enough for inclusion
11:18:05 <racetrack> bugs stamped out, a bit of testing by forumgoers, etc
11:21:04 <HackaLittleBit> racetrack did you check if your personal page is ok in the wiki because I was looking at the source and accidentally pressed submit. Hope I did not kill anything :(
11:22:23 <racetrack> HackaLittleBit: looks fine
11:22:30 <HackaLittleBit> Going to change to wiki like you did. Like it
11:23:43 <petern> you can view the history to see if anything was changed
11:24:12 <HackaLittleBit> Going to see that now
11:25:43 <racetrack> yeah, it didn't change
11:28:21 <petern> ^ get rid of old companies with no vehicles
11:29:26 <dihedral> petern, very nice... :-)
11:29:53 <dihedral> you want me to patch my server and turn of the Player kick and see what happens after some time?
11:30:16 <petern> "want" it a bit much. you can test it if you fancy ;)
11:30:50 <dihedral> you know - i usually dont do anything to my server ^^ i am just offering, so if you'd appreciate it, i am happy to do it!
11:31:00 <dihedral> if you dont care, i wont either ^^
11:31:59 <petern> certainly i would appreciate it
11:32:21 <petern> it better stop raining by 1pm
11:32:35 <petern> how am i going to sneak off to the 'shops' if it's wet? :o
11:36:47 <Rubidium> petern: only go to the web shops ;)
11:40:47 <racetrack> yay, trains I have trains driving straight through dtdepots without stopping unless the order says it should stop
11:40:57 <racetrack> nasty hack, I'll rework it a lot but its there
11:45:34 <racetrack> signal stuff isn't done yet though, so lotsa crashing :)
11:45:56 <racetrack> the signal on the depot is good, trains will wait if there's already a train on the depot tile
11:46:10 <racetrack> but the presignal-like behaviour, looking behind the depot before entering isn't there yet
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13:10:32 <SpComb> did you reboot your server?
13:11:34 <Ammler> another nice thing releated to "autoclean" would be if you could unprotect unused companies but without reseting them.... (workaround now is to restart the server from time to time)
13:11:53 <petern> the broadcast address was wrong
13:11:56 <petern> so i tried changing it
13:12:45 <Ammler> can you diable the autoreset without disabling autounprotect?
13:13:48 <petern> just enable autoclean_protected and disable autoclean_unprotected
13:14:07 <petern> autoclean_protected merely removes the password
13:14:40 <Ammler> those settings are used for the timespan
13:20:00 <Belugas> good (same_timezone ? morning : day) all
13:20:31 <Ammler> petern: I will add that to the wiki then...
13:25:13 <petern> obviously 1 month is specified with the value 1...
13:26:21 <petern> it used to be that way
13:27:13 <petern> so maybe it was right in 2007 :p
13:29:13 <petern> it's that was in 0.6.3
13:29:20 <petern> so it's a new 0.7 feature
13:32:04 <Belugas> oh boy.. Sirkoz is back :(
13:32:54 <dihedral> where is he? did he send you a pm in the forums or what?
13:35:47 <Belugas> original vehicle grf in problmes
13:36:51 <Ammler> does 0.7 features still need the "special" template?
13:38:40 * Belugas thinks that up until version 0.7 is not out , yes
13:39:29 <Sacro> grr, how to pass command line flags in VS
13:40:00 <petern> sacro, project settings
13:40:12 <petern> # no you can't take away from me
13:40:34 <Sacro> VS can start the server and I can debug the client :o
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13:42:23 <Sacro> ouch, my server just IOException'd :(
13:43:13 <Sacro> Yeah, it shouldn't do that
13:43:21 <dihedral> petern, does your patch need any config settings?
13:43:22 * Sacro shall catch the exception, and drop it :D
13:47:40 <Belugas> ho.. auto clean... cool !
13:47:49 <Belugas> We'll have a car wash in game !
13:48:00 <Belugas> my car is so dirty :S
13:48:38 * Sacro writes 'I wish my wife was this dirty' in the muck
13:49:07 <petern> Belugas, *no vehicles* :(
13:49:38 <Belugas> i know, petern, i know... i'm teasing you
13:50:42 <petern> # rain rain go away, come again some other day
13:50:48 <petern> he didn't write these lyrics"!
13:51:07 <petern> where has my typing ability gone all of a sudden?
13:55:31 <petern> seems a reason idea to add to the game play
13:55:37 <petern> i'm not going to do it though :)
13:56:40 <petern> hmm, problem with rebooting earlier... had openttd servers going :o
13:57:33 <petern> ah, autosave saves the day
13:57:57 <Belugas> you think it's a good idea? (suggetion, i mean)
13:59:36 <Hendikins> Stupid question. Is it possible to table a vehicle to remain at a stop for x days /or/ until full?
14:00:12 <Hendikins> (simply so it isn't sitting there if there is backlogged cargo)
14:01:01 <petern> as least it's business/financial related, rather than yet another gratutious 'realistic' visual effect
14:03:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15845 /trunk/src/engine_type.h: -Fix: Ancient comments
14:09:36 <Belugas> yeah, i guess you're right about that
14:09:48 <Belugas> but ho boy... what a thrill it will be to code :S
14:09:57 <Belugas> sarcastically speaking
14:15:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15846 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Fix: shuffle button text alignment was based on the wrong widget
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14:20:03 <petern> we can let someone else do that :)
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14:22:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15847 /trunk/src/lang/ (49 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r15837): the 'title' text of the music gui would be drawn big and in blue instead of small and in black
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15:03:30 <Rubidium> I haven't even touched you, so how can I be physical?
15:05:08 <petern> membershipprovider evilness :/
15:06:15 <petern> i need to authenticate with one
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15:11:11 <Turnskin> Colleagues, i have a question about ver. 0.7b more.
15:11:28 <planetmaker> then you should go ahead and ask your question :)
15:11:44 <Turnskin> (it was prologue :) )
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15:11:54 <petern> it was, indeed, not a question.
15:12:27 <Turnskin> It seems for me that trains (as well as other stuff) in saves remembers all settings.
15:12:37 <planetmaker> Turnskin: that's by design
15:12:52 <Turnskin> And the wait_before_one|two_waysignal too.
15:12:56 <planetmaker> has been this way and will stay that way.
15:13:22 <Turnskin> This setting about is not aviable from menu, isn't it?
15:13:27 <Yexo> you can change the ingame values by using "set" in the console, so "set wait_before_onewaysignal <newvalue>" will change it
15:13:39 <Turnskin> All 3 wait_before_a_signal ones.
15:13:41 <Yexo> leave out <newvalue> to see the current value
15:13:51 <Yexo> glx: patch is just an alias since 0.7
15:13:55 <planetmaker> glx: in 0.7.x "set" should be the preferred word :)
15:14:18 <Yexo> operation remove-all-references-to-patch-setting changed it :)
15:14:24 <planetmaker> "patch" is only an alias afaik
15:14:42 <planetmaker> for all those old-timers around here :P
15:14:58 <Turnskin> Yexo This way my question melted as a ghost :)
15:15:27 <Turnskin> i never used console yet :(
15:15:42 <planetmaker> the key left of "1" opens it
15:15:45 <Ammler> hehe, I saw another usage of console comamnd "patch" already in the forums ;-)
15:16:39 <Yexo> Ammler: patch -p0 < some_patch.diff ?
15:16:44 <planetmaker> and also closes it :)
15:16:49 <Turnskin> BTW now i plan to make an experiment of realism of a game (i saw a phrase in chantopic, but woldn't flame).
15:17:08 <Ammler> Yexo: but didn't work, is that now implemented in 0.7? :P
15:17:23 <Yexo> feel free to play a 'realistic' game, just don't try to get new features in *only* because they are realistic
15:17:51 <Turnskin> I'm interesting in a situation: does the length and a curve of a path before and after a slope influence to the speed enough?
15:18:12 <planetmaker> depends upon the definition of "enough"
15:18:20 <Turnskin> I'm completely agree!
15:18:20 <Yexo> possible if you have "realistic-acceleration" turned on
15:18:58 <Ammler> Yexo: maybe rename to nicer-acceleration ;-)
15:19:09 <Turnskin> Yep. vaggons' speeds on, acc-on on and other - only ON :)
15:20:41 <Turnskin> I'm trying to set at least 1 straight tile before and after every slope 1st. Then, i make at least 2 straightway tiles for downstairs path.
15:21:20 <Ammler> and using a newgrf of course...
15:21:36 <planetmaker> Turnskin: an s-curve won't hurt speed
15:21:58 <Turnskin> And i'm trying to don't make much curves after any slope .
15:22:05 <planetmaker> but if two turns in the same direction are found within the train's length it has an effect
15:22:15 <Turnskin> planetmaker Like-\_ ?
15:22:29 <planetmaker> that's an s-curve afaik
15:23:06 <Ammler> well, slow-down is also "realistic", imo
15:23:19 <planetmaker> \_/ = same direction; _/- = s-curve
15:23:38 <planetmaker> may ascii-art live long and prosper
15:23:53 <Turnskin> Good bless it! Amen.
15:24:14 <planetmaker> Turnskin: the wiki has a page concerning curve length. It should be reasonably up2date
15:24:16 <Ammler> \_/=2 direction changes
15:24:43 <planetmaker> /\ = 90° = impossible ;) (witht the right setting turned on)
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15:25:47 <Turnskin> But as for me, it _looks_ unrealistic when a path turns at straight after/before a slope. So now my mind is trying to understand that TTD is not the real life :(
15:26:01 <Ammler> 2 s-cuves are also a slow-down.
15:26:16 <Sacro> Ammler: damn right, or you'd lose your drin
15:26:31 <planetmaker> Ammler: for the simple reason that two same-turn curves then can be within the train's length
15:27:19 <Turnskin> My slow-downs are at least 5 tiles in lenght and 3 in width. Every loop :(
15:27:36 <Belugas> [11:19] <Yexo> feel free to play a 'realistic' game, just don't try to get new features in *only* because they are realistic <--- I drink to that!
15:27:59 <planetmaker> cheers, Belugas :)
15:28:22 <Ammler> Mister Realistic in person :-)
15:28:29 <petern> curve speed limits need fixing
15:28:37 <petern> they are broken currently
15:28:48 <petern> they're based on number of wagons, not curve length
15:29:25 <planetmaker> hm, yes. True. But does that need fixing?
15:29:26 <Belugas> [11:27] <Turnskin> But as for me, it _looks_ unrealistic when a path turns at straight after/before a slope. So now my mind is trying to understand that TTD is not the real life :( <--- it's pretty easy :) Just remember it's a game
15:29:31 <Ammler> petern: currently=since realistic_acceleration?
15:29:57 <petern> though i think shorter vehicles were introduced later
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15:30:26 <petern> planetmaker, main problem is the speed applies when the vehicle gets to the second bend...
15:31:02 <planetmaker> petern: why is that the problem? If I'm speeding a tight s-curve, I may make the first, but will fail the 2nd :)
15:31:13 <petern> that's another problem...
15:31:30 <Turnskin_> Something like "New vision and experiences of train routing and station building in OTTD ver. 0.7".
15:31:32 <planetmaker> same for U -type curves. I'll fail not in the first part, but later
15:32:15 <Turnskin_> Well, good bye for now.
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15:32:40 <Ammler> well, he isn't the first playing that "style"
15:35:15 <Belugas> it's not a syle, it's an illusion
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15:54:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v petern
15:54:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Rubidium
15:54:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Belugas
15:54:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v DorpsGek
15:54:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Darkvater
15:55:14 <Forked> must.. resist.. giving.. bastard answer.. to.. Leanden :\
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16:02:43 <planetmaker> Forked: I was nice to him...
16:03:08 <Forked> I was thinking about giving a link to the search function as well as link to the wiki article for say .. mingw
16:03:18 *** Maarten is now known as Guest12
16:03:38 <Forked> but yes, you were pretty nice :)
16:03:55 <planetmaker> but it's indeed quite thick to propose to just create the jack-of-all-trades OpenTTD compiler :)
16:04:41 <planetmaker> Well... not even the official compile farm could do what he proposes.
16:05:03 <Rubidium> it even doesn't apply patches ;)
16:05:13 <planetmaker> that's what I meant :)
16:05:27 <planetmaker> otoh: YOU apply constantly further patches ;)
16:05:35 <planetmaker> but people tend to call that trunk ;)
16:05:56 <Rubidium> the CF only likes tars with source files
16:08:48 *** Yeggs-coding is now known as Yeggs-away
16:08:59 <Belugas> yeah... Leanden is someone with special ideas
16:09:32 <Belugas> but the amount of work he want to se achieved just for someone to not work and enjoy is... insane
16:10:06 <Belugas> yeah.. makes no sens at all...
16:11:10 <planetmaker> I'm tempted to reply along the lines of "by actually transforming an idea into reality" ;)
16:11:29 <Yexo> I even searched his posts, but I couldn't find him suggesting something along those lines
16:11:54 <Yexo> I know it has been suggested before, but Zuu actually made it instead of only suggesting things
16:11:57 <planetmaker> :) I think it was suggested before his suggestion-spree started.
16:12:14 <planetmaker> yeah... which is pretty nice of him :)
16:14:21 <Belugas> let's make things clear :)
16:17:22 <planetmaker> or not so... which actually makes it nice again... hm... a paradox :P
16:17:47 <planetmaker> not nice = nice --> nice = 0
16:21:13 <Belugas> i just hate when things are not clear. So, Leanden, no more riddles! expose your face!
16:21:19 <Belugas> and don't come to IRC...
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16:22:58 <Belugas> mmmh on the other hand, it would be less a user...
16:23:23 <planetmaker> 0.75 per mille of the daily downloads ;)
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16:26:33 <Belugas> mmh... powerfull command...
16:26:58 <petern> worked for that guy :p
16:28:50 <Belugas> wow... discovering Something I Can Never Have
16:28:54 <Belugas> never heard it before
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16:30:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15848 /trunk/src/ (network/network_server.cpp settings_type.h table/settings.h): -Feature: Add autoclean_novehicles setting which will, when autoclean_companies is true, remove any company with no vehicles and no active client after autoclean_novehciles-months.
16:34:53 <Belugas> [12:35] * Quits: ToDeLoo (~ToDeLoo@195-23-22-254.net.novis.pt)
16:35:01 <Belugas> [12:31] <@Belugas> +q
16:35:08 <Belugas> I HAVE THE SAME POWER!!!
16:35:24 <planetmaker> who is that person?
16:35:24 <dihedral> ToDeLoo sounds like he needs to go to the toilet
16:35:36 <dihedral> it was hackalittlebit
16:36:03 <dihedral> perhaps now he's gonna sulkalittlebit
16:36:50 <planetmaker> hm... was hackalittlebit annoying? Cannot remember him quite...?
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16:59:40 <planetmaker> pong... pong........... pong......................................................
17:00:10 <HackaLittleBit> they ran away :)
17:04:47 <glx> petern: IIRC there was a FS number about your latest commit
17:05:18 <glx> not exactly the same thing though
17:07:59 <glx> hmm it seems muxy never submit his patch on FS
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17:24:34 <glx> your version is safer for people with unstable connection :)
17:33:52 <Ammler> do you really need to check the vehicels, is there no other way to see, if someone is/was active
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17:36:45 <Ammler> if someone joins, builds and then leave for dinner, after dinner, his company is gone :-)
17:37:59 <Ammler> well, he might be bankrott anway then...
17:38:02 <dihedral> Ammler, and if the company is gone, he did not have any vehicles, and can start again
17:38:22 <petern> there's company::num_vehicles
17:38:30 <petern> but that's a vehicle for each engine type
17:38:51 <Ammler> before I buy a vehicle, I build some tracks...
17:39:10 <dihedral> petern, configurable minimum per vehicle type ^^
17:39:26 <dihedral> you must have 100 trains :-D
17:39:54 <petern> if you want to leave your empty company around while you go for dinner, play on servers which don't have it on
17:40:41 <petern> i'd rather have less unused companies clogging the player list stopping others playing
17:40:51 <petern> (okay, so that's less likely with with 15 companies)
17:41:04 <dihedral> those companies are just not worth it
17:41:04 <Ammler> can't you not just check the company value?
17:41:21 <dihedral> because some companies have tracks, etc and they leave and never come back
17:41:25 <petern> what good would that do?
17:41:42 <dihedral> + you can configure the number of months Ammler
17:41:42 <petern> you'd build your tracks, your company value would stay at 1...
17:41:47 <petern> then you'd go for lunch
17:41:48 <dihedral> like with every auto clean
17:41:51 <petern> and still be cleaned up
17:43:14 <petern> stupid forum search engine strips words less than 3 characters
17:47:27 <Belugas> #one of these days i'll cut you in little pieces
17:48:26 <Yexo> you guys were a bit faster with finding a relevant thread ;p
17:52:04 <Belugas> i wanted to add that i came up with the idea of going to the toilet early in the morning and that my son came up witht he same, but since i was the first to hit the bowl the idea was mine but... i guess it would have been a tiny bit out of place...
17:58:39 <Ammler> well, you could still credit your ...ähm... with the son name :P
18:00:04 <Ammler> shit made by Belugas, invented by Littlegas
18:05:42 <Ammler> I miss the credits window on the start menu...
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18:23:46 <petern> he only went and bumped that old topic :o
18:35:02 <Belugas> wooohoo!! Sirkoz, you're really the best!
18:35:19 <Belugas> when it comes to being a clown, that is...
18:39:47 <Forked> got to love the internet :)
18:40:04 <Forked> meh. playing openttd with a mousepad on a laptop sucks :\
18:40:14 <Forked> also the ingame sounds made the dog start barking
18:40:34 <Forked> you know those pads that are under the space bar on laptops..
18:40:43 <Forked> touch sensitive to move the cursor around
18:40:48 <Forked> I might be using the wrong word(s) :)
18:45:32 <petern> mousepads are things you put a mouse on
18:46:17 <orudge> I don't think I have any any more
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18:52:50 <petern> # la la la la la, la la la la la laaaaaaa
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18:59:13 <petern> # she's a lady, she's got time
19:00:03 <totalwormage> # ohh, but in the morning, in the morning haze!
19:00:49 <totalwormage> hm, not haze, light, otherwise it wouldn't rime with night
19:02:22 <totalwormage> ahh get this keyboard away from me, it's typo evening
19:04:55 <petern> # they seem immune to all our herbicidal battering
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19:33:15 <Ammler> isn't downloading everything disabled?
19:34:23 <Yexo> no, there is just no "download-all" button
19:35:19 <Rubidium> there is one when listing missing newgrfs Which is in my opinion the only valid situation for a select all button
19:35:59 <Ammler> ah ok, you can still and acutally need to select all with console...
19:36:54 <Ammler> not possible to select special grfs, well, I am not. :-)
19:37:55 <Ammler> yeah, I know, that is why I said, I am not able...
19:38:19 <Ammler> nnn is quite hard for me to determine
19:39:03 <petern> it's not exactly hidden
19:39:03 <Ammler> it need the id of a list you get with "content state", I guess
19:39:36 <Ammler> well, I already said, I am not able to....
19:39:56 <Ammler> it might work for others...
19:40:51 <Rubidium> Ammler: have you READ the help?
19:41:14 <Ammler> did you change something?
19:41:56 <Rubidium> works for me too though
19:42:25 <Ammler> how do you select a specific grf?
19:42:47 <Ammler> "content select <grfid>" ?
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19:44:49 <Ammler> maybe It works now, I had some other issues too, with firewall and so...
19:45:09 <petern> the content state list gives you nnn
19:45:14 <Ammler> dunno, if I tested it with the id after I fixed the fw
19:47:19 <Ammler> it also seems like if you define a min/max version, it doesn't respect hg versions or other special things...
19:47:44 <Ammler> but that might be more the case for the uploader to think about...
19:47:53 <Rubidium> Ammler: the maximum/minimum version is the version that OpenTTD gives to NewGRFs
19:48:17 <petern> hg versions are non-numerical and non-sequential...
19:49:17 <Ammler> maybe it is possible to ignore max/min if openttd version isn't a numerical one?
19:50:07 <Ammler> hmm, how works the version check in the newgrfs for those?
19:50:58 <Rubidium> (as described in the NewGRF specs)
19:51:01 <Belugas> no more no less. not a byte more. not a byte less. AND NO BUTS
19:51:59 * petern ponders a bout of the lamb
19:54:19 <Ammler> Rubidium: so DJNekkid set max version for 2cc?
19:54:34 <Ammler> as the hxxx should be higher anyway...
19:55:07 <Rubidium> it sets a minimal version
19:55:30 <Ammler> but then it should be listed on a hg client?
19:56:03 <Ammler> at least grfs don't complain about the rev
19:56:04 <Rubidium> not if it can't detect the svn revision
19:56:53 <petern> i had lamb pie for dinner
19:57:06 <petern> it was tiny bit of lamb with chunks of manky veg pie
19:58:05 <Rubidium> revision detection works fine for trunk hg
19:58:12 <petern> playing on dihedral's server... with no newgrf
20:00:13 <Rubidium> the 2cc set even shows up with a trunk hg build
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20:01:00 <Yexo> I guess it won't show up with a trunk build from before 0.7 was split off
20:01:24 <petern> something solid forming in the air
20:01:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15849 /trunk/src/ (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h gfx.cpp gfx_func.h): -Codechange: provide easy access to the real height of the used fonts
20:02:01 <petern> i'm hovering like a fly
20:02:22 <Belugas> And the wall of death is lowered in TIme Square
20:02:40 <Belugas> they carry on as if nothing was there
20:02:54 <Belugas> the dust settles on my skin
20:03:05 <Belugas> making a crust I cannot move in
20:03:25 <Belugas> waiting for the windshield on the freeway
20:04:39 <petern> # in a scent you can bottle all you made
20:06:46 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
20:08:57 <Ammler> is it possible to see, which version the uploaded set?
20:09:36 <Ammler> then we need to blame DJNekkid :-(
20:10:35 <Ammler> it looks like he set a min version, doesn't?
20:10:35 <Yexo> const uint32 _openttd_newgrf_version = 0 << 28 | 8 << 24 | 0 << 20 | 0 << 19 | (@@REVISION@@ & ((1 << 19) - 1));
20:11:00 <Yexo> that way the version is determined, with an hg build @@revision@@ is 0, which makes the version lower than every 0.7 nighty
20:11:40 <Yexo> since the 0.7 split, the 7<<24 was changed in 8<<24, making the revision higher than every 0.7 nighlty, regardless of the actuall revision (so even with hg the version is higher)
20:12:05 <Rubidium> Yexo: with hg the svn revision is detected, as long as it's an official hg repos
20:12:33 <Yexo> in that case it should work with hg builds from before the 0.7 split
20:12:49 <Ammler> Rubidium: it works also with is2 branch now
20:13:19 <Rubidium> Yexo: if the top commit isn't an offical trunk commit it's likely to not work
20:13:59 <Ammler> it is just djnekkid set useless min version :-)
20:14:22 <Ammler> as his grf would work with all bananas versions
20:15:19 <Ammler> I am wondering what he set... :-)
20:16:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15850 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp subsidy_gui.cpp): -Codechange: replace some magic constants with the less magic line height constant
20:16:48 <petern> the grand parade of lifeless packaging
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20:20:45 <petern> # aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
20:20:49 <petern> # you say i must be crazy
20:20:57 <petern> # cos i don't care who i hit (who i hit)
20:21:12 <petern> # i'm iiii'm not full of shit
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20:27:11 <artart78> I tried to compile svn but I have an error: 'Error: No available language packs (invalid versions?)'
20:27:38 <Yexo> try rm -r bin/lang and recompile
20:28:59 <artart78> (and directory lang is re-created but nothing is in it)
20:29:23 <artart78> tried to cp objs/lang/*.lng bin/lang/ but same thing
20:29:44 <Yexo> can you try to remove objs/lang/*
20:30:01 <Yexo> for some reasons the language files are not recompiled when they should
20:30:36 <artart78> make: *** /home/artart78/jeux/svn/openttd/objs/lang: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type. Arrêt. (No file or directory of this type. Stopping.)
20:31:15 <artart78> it recreate it when I do configure
20:32:16 <artart78> then it creates files in bin/lang/
20:33:00 <Yexo> can you try to recompile everything? make mrproper && ./cofigure && make
20:35:07 <petern> got to get in to get out
20:37:53 <Ammler> Sulai once tried to make something similar
20:38:22 <artart78> so, now, let's try to apply the 32bpp patch..
20:39:23 <artart78> ..and it doesn't work :/
20:39:43 <petern> you don't need a patch for 32bpp...
20:40:05 <artart78> but why is there a patch for it ??
20:40:22 <Yexo> there is a patch for extra zoom levels, which only work with 32bpp graphics
20:42:07 <Belugas> once upon a time, some devs with a furious envy to do something useful, got toguether and created 32bp for trunk
20:42:22 <Belugas> and then... it ended up in trunk
20:42:57 <petern> there is no complete set of 32bpp graphics
20:43:13 <petern> (nobody created 32bpp graphics, because the game didn't support it)
20:43:29 <petern> (then suddenly the game did support it, and still nobody created (much) 32bpp graphics)
20:43:38 <Ammler> still possible there is a 32bpp replacment before 8bpp replacment ;-)
20:44:03 <artart78> petern: there's a lot of 32bpp graphics but some doesn't work, and they are in a lot of files..
20:44:08 <Belugas> but now, they know under which copyright (gpl or else) it will be published :D
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20:49:40 <Ammler> Rubidium: if you won't support for grfid in the bananas download, maybe it is possible to add the grfid the list at least, so you could grep the list for?
20:50:38 <Ammler> ah, you know, what I mean :P
20:51:15 <Belugas> no. nor what use it would be
20:51:40 <Ammler> or a filter like you have with the gui would rock
20:52:14 <fonsinchen> Ouch ... when the number of stations in a connected component approaches about 100 the time needed to calculate all the paths for the cargo distribution problem can be measured in hours.
20:52:30 <fonsinchen> Well, it seems I have to find another algorithm.
20:53:48 <Ammler> don't you like, how the cargodest branch did it?
20:54:48 <fonsinchen> it only uses one path
20:55:28 <fonsinchen> if you want to use many paths in parallel you have to think about it as a multi commodity flow problem
20:55:49 <fonsinchen> I actually tried to make it a circulation problem instead, but that one had very strange properties
20:56:09 <fonsinchen> People wouldn't have liked how cargo would have behaved there ...
20:56:55 <fonsinchen> Yet there are many heuristics for MCF. You don't have to solve it exactly
20:57:06 <fonsinchen> So, I'll find a way
20:58:07 <Belugas> always anice approach
20:58:38 <fonsinchen> random destinations are nice, but unpredictable destinations aren't
20:58:56 <fonsinchen> unpredictable meaning: you add one edge and everyone goes somewhere else
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21:18:25 <HackaLittleBit> Good evening everybody :)
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21:35:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15851 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r15849): compile failure when there's no freetype...
21:36:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15852 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Codechange: New widgets for the AI windows.
21:36:35 * petern reverts his old dynamic scrollbar patch
21:36:51 <Rubidium> dynamic scrollbar patch?
21:37:10 <petern> one that removed the bjarni-isms
21:37:28 <petern> such as a lot of duplication
21:38:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15853 /trunk/src/waypoint_gui.cpp: -Codechange: New widgets for the waypoint gui.
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22:07:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15854 /trunk/src/tree_gui.cpp: -Codechange: New widgets for build tree window.
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22:28:26 <petern> it was old, as in pre-c++ ;)
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22:33:29 <petern> so some stuff already works with bigger fonts :D
22:34:48 <petern> when do the old widget lists get removed? heh
22:37:23 <petern> are all the widget updates done, just waiting to be split/etc
22:37:29 <petern> or are they being done as and when?
22:38:18 <Yexo> a lot of windows still need conversion to the new widget system
22:38:26 <Yexo> when all all done the old widget system can be removed
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22:41:30 <petern> hmm, is there an implied vertical container?
22:41:35 * planetmaker ponders to give my tt-forums ignore list a 2nd entry...
22:41:57 <planetmaker> this leander guy is just a pain...
22:42:36 <Yexo> petern: there is NWID_VERTICAL, but WWT_PANEL also defaults to vertical
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22:49:46 <kalasmannen> heya, i was just woundering, is there a way to get the gm-files from the DOS-version of openttd
22:50:21 <kalasmannen> i have a recently bought re-relase of the game, but it seems that it contains the original dos-files
22:50:37 <Yexo> openttd doesn't support the music files from the dos version
22:52:10 <Ammler> kalasmannen: google could convert them to windows ;-)
22:54:37 <planetmaker> mother google runs so many nice services... ;)
23:00:20 <petern> w->type == WWT_LAST failed :o
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23:03:20 <kalasmannen> Ammler: hah, i wish :P
23:03:53 <kalasmannen> very wierd though, that a re-relase has the old dos-files
23:04:01 <kalasmannen> and yet, a windows executable
23:04:12 <Yexo> petern: WWT_PANEL needs an EndContainer(), that's the mistake I made a lot
23:04:45 <kalasmannen> i may have misunderstood it, but when you read the install-instructions, i have the files that are labeled as the dos-versions files
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23:38:57 <Yexo> which window were you trying to update?
23:56:51 <petern> what does this->index refer to at the point of assert?
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