IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-03-18
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00:03:10 <emjay88> so in the help for grfcodec where it says the palette option (-p) is to use a different palette to the default...
00:03:26 <emjay88> is the default the one in the grf file or is it the same as -p 1
00:04:11 <Rubidium> the GRF doesn't store the palette
00:04:27 <emjay88> right, the obg is for building the grf right?
00:04:45 <emjay88> or is it just used by openttd?
00:05:15 <Rubidium> it's used by OpenTTD to find the base graphics
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00:07:15 <emjay88> is the wiki page up to day?
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00:08:05 <Rubidium> can't answer that; I guess you need to ask someone that is actually involved in that project
00:09:12 <emjay88> last question for now: do black regions in the pcx files mean something special? (i assume it's transparent or something?)
00:09:34 <Rubidium> the blue is transparent
00:10:51 <emjay88> so black means nothing?
00:11:10 <Rubidium> black is just a placeholder so it doesn't cause glitches in OpenTTD
00:11:39 <Rubidium> you can see those black boxes when you start openttd with OpenGFX as base graphics set in the main menu
00:12:28 <emjay88> No i mean the black areas in the original graphics (trg1r is what I'm looking at now) they seem to be silhouettes of buildings?
00:15:27 <Rubidium> if it's really black then you've probably used the wrong palette
00:16:04 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> [22:43:21] <Bjarni> el_en: pisst.... Ottawa <== frosch123 was right about "hours spent googling" :-D <--- I don't need google for that. Besides it's kind of hard to answer right away when I'm not at the computer
00:17:21 <emjay88> No the background is blue like that
00:17:46 <emjay88> hmmm, if you can, have a look at 4438 in trg1r.pcx
00:17:49 <Rubidium> oh, those black areas
00:18:09 <Rubidium> press x while in game to toggle the transparency and you'll see
00:18:48 <emjay88> sadly, I'm at work now so I can't but I'll have a go when I get home :)
00:20:13 <Rubidium> a building is build with (at least) two sprites. One is the ground sprite which has those black places where the 'building' sprite is shown
00:21:48 <emjay88> ok, so the black places are sort of placeholders?
00:22:30 <Rubidium> yes, to make the buildings not glitchy when transparent
00:23:00 <Rubidium> the sprites containing the black are also the parts that are not made transparent
00:23:31 <emjay88> ok, so parts of the building that are covering black areas stay visible when transparency is turned on
00:28:41 <Rubidium> no, the sprites with the black areas don't get transparent. Whatever covers those sprites get transparent
00:29:40 <Brokkoli> isn't the whole "upper" sprite transparent?
00:30:23 <Brokkoli> the buildingbasesprite unchanged and the buildingsprite transparent?
00:33:07 <Brokkoli> so it's not required to be black, but looks a bit better, when the buildings are transparent
00:38:06 <emjay88> do my new graphics have to fit within a same-size box as the originals?
00:40:19 <Sacro> hmm, what anti-virus do I use...
00:41:28 <Rubidium> emjay88: as long as they aren't wider than a tile you can do basically everything
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00:44:47 <emjay88> ok, so height is not a problem, but the width is restricted
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00:45:41 <Brokkoli> i think height is restricted somewhere, too
00:46:14 <Brokkoli> but i don't know about the limits
00:46:53 <Rubidium> the height is restricted somewhere, but reaching that limit means that your building is really incredibly high
00:47:14 <emjay88> Ok, so Ill try to fit it in the original box, and if I need to go up a bit it'll be ok
00:47:33 <emjay88> thanks for your help guys
00:51:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15757 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix/hackaround (r15314): of course on some system searching a font using its english name fails. So now we search the font using the localised name and use the english name for the final 'validation' only.
00:55:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15758 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r15757): win9x compilation
00:57:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15759 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: sprite for resizing to the left (for better RTL support)
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01:07:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15760 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange [FS#2704]: support that the resize box is at the left side of the window too (based on work by Alberth)
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01:27:20 <welshdragon> if i give a tram 2 orders will it call at all stations in between?
01:27:45 <Zuu> If you make sure you don't have "non-stop" in its orders.
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03:00:50 <emjay88> does anyone here use blender in ubuntu?
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05:28:33 <emjay88> anyone know how to set palettes in GIMP?
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05:49:52 <Rubidium> colours->map->set colourmap?
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08:26:15 <Timitry> Hehe, our friend Alain encountered a new problem, again
08:26:51 <Timitry> I'm still surprised how far he gets with his approach...
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08:56:49 <Timitry> Man... I can't get the 32bpp-graphics to work...
08:57:18 <Timitry> 1. Downloaded graphics and put them somewhere in my /data - folder, e.g. the NoZoom-Megapack and the new Traindepot
08:57:42 <Timitry> 2. In the config, i added blitter = "32bpp-simple"
08:57:54 <Timitry> 3. And tried changing sprite_cache_size to 64
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09:00:31 <Timitry> Well, in fact, i added blitter = 32bpp_simple, but the game changed it to blitter = "32bpp-simple"
09:01:06 <Timitry> Both under [misc], using a clean r15595 and no NewGRFs
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09:13:01 <petern> do you have dos or windows original graphics?
09:13:21 <petern> (although i don't know if that matters any more)
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09:33:46 <HerzogDeXtEr> Discussion of realism is now a quietable offence :D
09:34:17 <HerzogDeXtEr> openttd and realism, i hate ppl that need realism in games ;)
09:37:33 <Timitry> Got the windows-graphics, both the original and the opengfx ones
09:37:45 <Timitry> The Game uses the Original ones...
09:38:23 <Timitry> I tried deleting my openttd.cfg, and then changing the blitter in the new one again... No effect
09:38:46 <Rubidium> Timitry: try selecting the opengfx one in e.g. the game options
09:39:18 <Timitry> I copied the 32bpp-files in both my games/openttd/data and the userdata/openttd/data folder
09:39:46 <Timitry> Rubidium: Changing them works, but still no 32bpp-graphics are shown
09:39:50 <petern> files? it's only one file
09:42:15 <Timitry> like you already guessed anyway :D
09:43:01 <petern> Rubidium, are you aware of any plans for supporting multiple (hahaha) 32bpp base replacement sets?
09:43:25 <petern> for individual newgrfs it's simple, of course
09:44:00 <Rubidium> let there first be one ;)
09:44:21 <petern> just asking a simple question... no need to read anything more into it :p
09:47:09 <petern> i've done 9 sprites so far ;)
09:48:03 <Rubidium> so only 499 promille to go till you've reached half of the sprites ;)
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10:53:12 <Rubidium> Timitry: by the looks of it it wasn't
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11:54:44 <DorpsGek> dihedral: energetic was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 14 hours, 35 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <energetic> in openttd code, does performance has prio over readability?
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12:16:14 <Mark> Will path based signals be in 0.7.*?
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12:38:09 <Timitry> How do i checkout the 07.rc1
12:38:19 <dihedral> why were the "'setting' change to <new value>" console print outs removed
12:38:26 <dihedral> it's been gone for a long time
12:38:49 <Mark> I'm only using a nightly and hav'nt tried 0.7.* yet, therefore the question. :)
12:38:53 <dihedral> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/0.7.0-rc1 i'd assume
12:39:06 <Timitry> okay, will try that, thanks
12:39:16 <dihedral> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/0.7.0-RC1
12:39:35 <dihedral> Mark, which nightly are you using?
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13:28:35 <Aygar> Hey, are there any developers here?
13:29:06 <Aygar> I have question about where a patch would be welcomed.
13:30:17 <Rubidium> no, there're no developers in Japan ;)
13:30:19 <pavel1269> see if ppl like it .... FS?
13:30:24 <Rubidium> there was one a year ago though ;)
13:31:05 <Rubidium> mostly people with ops or voice here are the developers
13:31:07 <Belugas> pr maybe you meant pretty please?
13:32:35 <Aygar> Its a patch that adds NOR pre- and combo- signals.
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13:33:26 <dihedral> yet another bunch of signals
13:33:39 <Aygar> I looked in the forumns but couldn't find if there was any views one way or another about adding signals
13:33:40 <Rubidium> NOR = red when all exit signals are green?
13:34:27 <[wito]> dihedral: sure it does
13:34:28 <Aygar> Red when train in block or any exit signal is green
13:34:46 <Aygar> Green only when all exit signals are red
13:35:02 <dihedral> means you need to mangle with other signal type
13:35:04 <[wito]> so used for load balancing then?
13:36:15 <Aygar> example would be the compressor structure for opentddcoop PSG 131
13:36:53 <Aali> and now that you've mentioned ottdcoop, there's no chance in hell for this to happen
13:37:07 <Aygar> but using signals instead of trains in external rail loops
13:38:03 <Rubidium> guess you rather want programmable signals
13:38:41 <Aygar> That would be the ideal solution. How ever looking at the code it would take major revisions to make that happen
13:39:42 <Rubidium> better do it right the first time then ending up with 20 signals types and 1 programmable signal type that covers 15 of those signal types
13:40:33 <Aygar> At most you would end up with 6 additional signals. AND NAND NOR.
13:40:53 <Aygar> pre-signal and combo-signal variants
13:41:16 <Rubidium> then you think of NOT
13:41:36 <Aygar> thats a NOR with only one input
13:42:26 <Aali> what about the infinite loop issue?
13:42:33 <[wito]> With programmable signals, you could probably build a turing machine in OpenTTD
13:42:42 <Aygar> Really from a logic point of view you only need a NOR or a NAND
13:42:53 <Noldo> [wito]: there are quite interesting structures already
13:42:56 <Rubidium> ssh... ottdcoop's computers are fast enough to cope with infinite loops
13:43:41 <Aygar> Aali: thats refered to as an ocilator. Its a feature not a bug.
13:44:47 <Aali> have you tested this patch of yours?
13:45:24 <Rubidium> has anyone with knowledge of the signalling system reviewed your patch?
13:45:28 <Aali> you'll see that the infinite loop I'm talking about isn't quite what you would want, ever
13:45:42 <dihedral> Rubidium, nope, he came here for that ;-)
13:46:02 <dihedral> first time he's here, first time he's talking to 'a' dev
13:46:22 <Timitry> Is there a way to save all the warnings MinGW/MSys gives me while compiling to a .txt file or something like that?
13:46:39 <Aygar> mainly I am testing the waters to see what the reception for something like it would be before investing large amounts of time in it only to have it shot down with 'we don't accept patches of that sort'
13:47:21 <Forked> Rubidium: just warnings/errors is "2>" isn't it?
13:47:37 <Noldo> bug fixes are the way to go if you want your name on the svn log
13:47:48 <[wito]> Aygar: a patch doesn't need to go in trunk to be successful
13:48:09 <Timitry> So, do i need that command to the make command, or to ./configure, or can i do it afterwards=?
13:48:11 <[wito]> personally I loves me my cargodest
13:48:23 <[wito]> but that's not in trunk (yet [pokes Rubidium])
13:48:24 <Rubidium> and the lower flyspray id of the bug you fix, the higher the chances you become a developer ;)
13:48:51 <glx> (don't use -j when you redirect output ;) )
13:48:55 <Timitry> just that, or do i need to specify the name of the output file?
13:49:11 <Aygar> Aali: I was trying (failing) to make a joke. So would an example be a NOR signal that loops back on to another NOR signal?
13:49:54 <Rubidium> looping back on itself is more interesting
13:50:55 <Rubidium> what colour will it be?
13:52:22 <[wito]> But any signal looping back on itself is an error, and should be permanently red, irrespective of it's internal mechanisms
13:52:40 <[wito]> two NOR signals looping on each other is much more interesting
13:53:36 <Aygar> Rubidium: it would be the colour of problem.
13:54:54 <Timitry> "make >log 2>&1" doesn't do anything, the log just tells me "nothing to be done here"
13:55:02 <Aygar> I now see what Aali is referring to
13:55:57 <Timitry> Seems like it does work :)
13:56:20 <Aygar> So back to the programming wall with me.
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14:14:54 <Timitry> the css validator on the mainpage openttd.org does not validate the page...
14:17:27 <[wito]> Timitry: how do you figure?
14:17:58 <[wito]> looks valid enough to me
14:18:01 <Timitry> bottom of the page, and click the css-valid logo
14:19:48 <[wito]> one error is due to validation against the wrong profile (it should be validated against 3, not 2.1)
14:20:16 <[wito]> the other is a browser-specific declaration which is still syntactically valid and can be ignored safely.
14:22:05 <Timitry> Yes, i read the errors that were found, it's just that i think if you place the valid-logo there, the validation shouldn't fail
14:23:33 <[wito]> Then you don't understand how CSS works
14:24:07 <[wito]> That CSS file is, for all intents and purposes perfectly valid
14:25:09 <[wito]> It's not a valid CSS 2.1 file, but that claim isn't made in the first place
14:25:36 <[wito]> it just happens to be the default profile
14:26:40 <[wito]> Sacro: you're going bankrupt, man!
14:27:02 <Sacro> grr, can people stop using brackets
14:28:03 <[wito]> Sacro: good clients will allow you to type wi\t
14:28:46 <[wito]> 1,1M£, and hemmhoraging at 600k£/year
14:29:36 <[wito]> you'll be bankrupt by the end of next year unless drastic action is taken
14:35:16 <[wito]> but since it's gone this far
14:39:30 <Sacro> I need to send Brianetta an ssh cert again
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14:42:03 <[wito]> I do take objection at a difficulty setting, tho'
14:42:16 <[wito]> Trains reversing at stations? What is this madness?
14:43:33 <Sacro> use signals to stop them
14:44:52 <[wito]> well, the issue is that if I build a station with a terminal depot, the train never visits it
14:47:07 <Noldo> your building is faulty then for that given set of settings
14:48:37 <[wito]> in this particular situation, breakdowns are also disabled
14:48:58 <[wito]> so trains never actually NEED to visit the depot in the first place
14:49:21 <[wito]> So the issue isn't really that trains don't get serviced (they don't need to), it's that they aren't autorenewed
14:49:27 <[wito]> leading to annoying messages. :P
14:51:36 <Sacro> tell them them to viist the depot if they need to
15:09:34 <el_en> ¿dónde está el señor Eddi|enCasa?
15:14:47 *** el_en was kicked by Belugas (chai-tu moi, ou il est?)
15:17:50 <dihedral> petern, you forgot the /me in front of that :-D
15:20:28 <petern> it's all about /you isn't it?
15:21:00 <petern> thank you space expert
15:21:44 <Belugas> You Know what You Are?
15:22:25 <petern> i'm jim morrison, i'm dead
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15:22:56 <Belugas> perfect cross reference, petern :D
15:27:02 <petern> who blew up the content server? heh
15:29:33 <Belugas> is blowing in the wind
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15:38:37 <Rubidium> it was consuming a mere 630 MB of memory
15:39:11 <dihedral> heh - openttd used to do that to me a few weeks ago
15:39:42 <Rubidium> dihedral: virtual memory != real memory
15:39:50 <Rubidium> I'm talking about 630 MB of real memory
15:40:11 <Rubidium> i.e. that part of the ps aux that kept below 100 MB, not the part that grew to several GB
15:40:39 <dihedral> odly enough - on the vps openttd ran for me, that made no diff
15:40:51 <dihedral> free gave the output as if it were real mem
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16:05:10 <petern> DON'T YOU FUCKING KNOW WHAT YOU ARE
16:33:39 <Cutter> new eletric engines appear but the eletric rails aren't even available!
16:33:51 <Cutter> I'm playing in the desert
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16:38:40 <el_en> how do you get power for your computer in the desert?
16:40:46 <glx> there are no electric engines in tropical/desert landscape
16:42:31 <pavel1269> and cutter, dont you have elrails off?
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16:53:40 <Cutter> pavel1269: don't know but I did't turn them off
16:54:17 <pavel1269> well, if u have it off, you should be able to buid them in normal depo ^^
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16:55:12 <Rubidium> monorail/maglev trains are electric too
16:55:32 <pavel1269> but you cant ingame turn them off :-)
16:57:16 <Rubidium> Cutter: what is the name of the new electric engines and when did they appear?
16:57:23 <pavel1269> hmm hmm .... nvm me
16:58:16 <Cutter> Rubidium: yes but I've seen at least two news about a new eletric engine, and I have only one monorail engine available atm
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16:58:47 <Cutter> and I didn't catch ther name
16:59:31 <Belgabor> hi everybody, would someone know where (in the code) I can find at which zoom level small views (eg of the train ui) are drawn?
17:01:07 <Rubidium> Belgabor: I'd say the constructor of the vehicle gui
17:02:59 <Belgabor> ah ok, was this recently introcduced? Sowething between rev 15600-something and now seems to have change in this regard, as the extra soom level patch is clearly not working correctly there =)
17:04:39 <Rubidium> I reckon your patch failed to apply or compilation failed and you're now using an old binary
17:04:47 <Belgabor> strange. The patch applied pretty much cleanly but now everything small (including the news reports) is drawn at max soom
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17:08:19 * Rubidium ponders how long it takes until people start reporting desyncs when they've got the copy-paste patch applied
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17:14:28 <Belgabor> Since I neither have that patch applied nor play multiplayer, it certainly won't be me ;-)
17:16:55 <Belgabor> Ok, you were right. Dependency/stale object file issue. Sorry for the noise.
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17:25:39 <Belugas> there was a dvd-cd player on that new machine
17:25:59 <Belugas> but it did not had power supply plugged in
17:26:09 <Belugas> how fucking usefull is that...
17:26:50 <Rubidium> apparantly a dvd player is cheaper than a front for the slot
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17:27:08 <Rubidium> (and that really doesn't suprise me)
17:29:14 <Belugas> at work, nothing shouls surprise me anymore...
17:30:20 <frosch123> -Feature: Block downloading BaNaNaS stuff for one day, when the user tries to download everything
17:33:14 <Belugas> Download The Internet
17:43:03 <pavel1269> Rubidium: i was talking just about situations i saw there, you are talking about stuff in bigger picture, which was totaly right there ... :-)
17:44:17 <Rubidium> I still don't get your reply though
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17:49:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15761 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files):
17:49:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-18 17:44:55
17:49:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 10 fixed by tifached (10)
17:49:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 fixed by adjayanto (4)
17:49:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: japanese - 60 fixed by ickoonite (60)
17:49:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 5 fixed by silentKnight (5)
17:49:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 4 fixed by Smoky555 (4)
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17:55:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15762 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: inlined utf8 chars are not handled properly on eastern version of windows so escape them
18:17:58 <pavel1269> if i just add global variable to src/saveload/misc_sl.cpp.... after load, is it loaded? ...
18:22:44 <Belugas> simply declaring a variable on that file will not make it a loadable-savable one
18:25:47 <pavel1269> ehh ... its declared in date.cpp :-)
18:26:01 <pavel1269> and ... added that SLEG_
18:30:03 <Yexo> why don't you just try whether it works?
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18:35:22 <Darkvater> gah, some idiot pulled the plug on my server :s
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18:39:23 * Belugas waves back in a great big splash!
18:39:55 * Darkvater ponders an Intel X25-M SSD disc
18:40:28 <Prof_Frink> It's not really a disc, is it?
18:40:55 <Darkvater> too bad it's ~300 EUR for a measily 80GB's
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18:43:47 <Belugas> what use you'll have for it? just curious
18:44:04 <Darkvater> my HD is soooo slow it makes me mad
18:45:39 * Darkvater will ponder a bit more in peace :)
18:50:06 <Prof_Frink> Redundant Array of Rather Expensive Dis^H^Hrives
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19:32:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15763 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange/Fix: Add Engine::GetDisplayDefaultCapacity() and use it everywhere, so CB 36 is also used everywhere.
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19:47:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15764 /branches/0.7/src/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
19:47:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
19:47:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Number of houses in house variables 0x44, 0x60 and 0x61 were incorrect after 0xFF had been reached and could desync clients joining afterwards (r15755)
19:47:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Crash when clicking the small area between the savegame list and the save button in the save game window [FS#2742] (r15753)
19:47:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not try to (un)draw the cursor when the screen is not ready (r15752)
19:47:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: The big UFO sometimes landed just outside the map. Instead of landing, just disappear (fly away) in those cases (r15750)
19:47:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Crash because submarines would sometimes start far outside of the map [FS#2739] (r15748)
19:50:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15765 /branches/0.7/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs):
19:50:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
19:50:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Change: [NewGRF] Expose GRF ID of engines in var action property 0x25 (r15739)
19:50:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Add Engine::GetDisplayDefaultCapacity() and use it everywhere, so CB 36 is also used everywhere (r15763)
19:50:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Windows] Inlined UTF-8 characters (in the source code) are not handled properly on Eastern versions of Windows so escape them (r15762)
19:50:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Windows] On some system searching a font using its English name fails. So now we search the font using the localised name and use the English name for the final 'validation' only (r15757)
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20:11:13 <Aali> has the "multiple downloads" BaNaNaS bug been fixed?
20:12:56 <Aali> (the one where you click the download button multiple times and it keeps spawning windows and overall messes up?)
20:13:27 <Rubidium> has it been reported?
20:13:37 <Aali> dunno, thats why I asked
20:13:42 <Belugas> why wold you keep on clicking that button?
20:13:58 <SmatZ> [21:11:16] <Aali> has the "multiple downloads" BaNaNaS bug been fixed? <== everyone knows about that bug, apart from devs apparently :-p
20:14:28 <Aali> someone on ottdcoop found it, in r15712
20:14:36 <pavel1269> and this says dev :-P
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20:22:50 <glx> <Aali> someone on ottdcoop found it, in r15712 <-- they used to report bugs but not this one
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20:26:44 <Belugas> maybe it's not reproductible?
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20:40:37 <DorpsGek> energetic2: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 22 hours, 13 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> valhallasw: good luck with your RoboCom
20:46:31 <colde> where does openttd save screenshots on 64 bit vista?
20:50:38 <Belugas> can you search for it?
20:50:56 <Belugas> when you have done the screenshot, the system always tell you the name of it
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20:51:24 <Rubidium> the same place where it saves openttd.cfg
20:51:35 <Rubidium> which is likely "my documents\openttd"
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21:00:20 <colde> Rubidium: i'll look there thx
21:05:24 <Brianetta> Anybody have an idea why my server doesn't un-pause when players join?
21:09:11 <SmatZ> Brianetta: what's the value of min_active_clients ?
21:10:37 <Brianetta> although now it's 1
21:10:39 <SmatZ> maybe is the server paused then?
21:10:43 <Brianetta> as of a few seconds ago
21:10:51 <Brianetta> It's paused from the start
21:11:04 <Brianetta> as if "pause_on_new_game" or whatever was anything other than OFF
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22:07:49 <Ammler> Brianetta: I had a similar behavior here, server didn't unpause after someone left
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