IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-03-17
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00:00:02 <wision> is it default left in tt/ttd?
00:00:03 <Prof_Frink> We invented everything the chinese forgot.
00:00:25 <Rubidium> Ludde inventen OpenTTD!
00:00:48 <Brianetta> Prof_Frink: They didn't forget. They just rolled their eyes.
00:02:10 <Brianetta> Somebody compete with Vemarkis.
00:06:18 <Sacro> think I might Brianetta
00:15:25 <Brianetta> How the hecking heck do I stop openttd occupying the whole of my screen?
00:15:38 <Brianetta> I can't resize the bugger
00:16:01 <Rubidium> use the sdl video backend instead of the allegro backend
00:16:28 <Rubidium> allegro doesn't do 'custom' resolutions
00:17:32 <Ammler> [00:52] <Brianetta> Heh, sarah_pilot lost her name <-- change from player_name to client_name
00:18:40 <Brianetta> Lots of config stuff has changed. Half the config on my server seems to be default (and sucky)
00:19:04 <Ammler> dunno, if you already use ap+, else you might need to...
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00:20:13 <Ammler> are the changes of the new cfg after 0.6 branch?
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00:22:40 <Brianetta> Ah crap, I have to translate diff_custom myself
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00:25:50 <Rubidium> I've got no clue what you've done exactly, but the conversion works for me
00:26:25 <Rubidium> maybe you've started 0.7.0-RC1, then 0.6.3 and then 0.7.0-RC1 again
00:26:43 <Brianetta> Definitely not. 0.6.3 was last run a fortnight ago.
00:26:46 <Rubidium> that would at least explain why you've got the defaults
00:27:10 <Brianetta> It's rewritten most of the settings, but many things are just wrong
00:27:30 <[wito]> Speaking of settings, we could really do with the realistic train accel. :P
00:27:48 <Brianetta> Usually where settings have a different name
00:28:04 <Brianetta> realistic_acceleration = true in last night's backup
00:28:11 <Brianetta> train_acceleration_model = 0
00:28:20 <Yexo> renamed settings are not converted automatically
00:28:33 <Brianetta> That includes diff_custom.
00:29:09 <Brianetta> What's dynamic_engines?
00:29:16 <Yexo> I remember a problem with diff_custom, but I thougth that was fixed
00:29:21 <Yexo> dynamic_engines = engine pool
00:29:29 <Rubidium> Brianetta: something blunck doesn't like
00:29:49 <Brianetta> Oh, the thing that lets you run DBSet alongside UKRS (:
00:30:15 <Sacro> Brianetta: i think realistic accel is off
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00:31:17 <Brianetta> Sacro: You're not the first to point this out
00:33:34 <Brianetta> ERROR: This command/variable is not available during network games.
00:33:35 <Brianetta> This is usually an arbitrary limitation, as far as I can tell.
00:34:02 <Rubidium> in the sense that it's readable by NewGRFs on game load
00:34:33 <Rubidium> which means that NewGRFs can change the behaviour of the NewGRF based on that value on game load
00:34:46 <Rubidium> which means that changing it during network games can cause desyncs
00:34:49 <Brianetta> Let them, I say. Just warn the admin.
00:35:28 <Brianetta> There might not *be* and newgrfs.
00:35:51 <Sacro> click and dragging signals still does the first signal type you click
00:35:55 <Sacro> not the signal type you have selected
00:35:55 <Rubidium> yeah, just like changing NewGRFs warns the user and we still get tons of bug reports that changing NewGRFs caused crashes
00:36:05 <Sacro> can that be fixed/optionable?
00:36:26 <Brianetta> Rubidium: At least none of those bug reports requires fixing.
00:36:38 <Yexo> if the signal you select is a pre/exit/combo signal though, normal signals will be build instead
00:36:57 <Rubidium> Brianetta: if they cared to tell that they did change the NewGRFs in-game yes
00:37:14 <Rubidium> but most of the time you're send on a goose/moose chase
00:37:29 <Sacro> Yexo: not if it's a YAPP
00:37:35 <glx> (luckily we have gamelog now)
00:37:40 <Sacro> i only use YAPP at juntions, I'll never have a need to click and drag them
00:37:46 <Sacro> nor should anyoone else for that matter
00:38:05 <Yexo> that depends on your buidling style, some people (like me) build only pbs signals
00:38:11 <Yexo> just because it's easier to build
00:38:31 <Sacro> can we sprite swap the signal graphics...
00:38:39 <Sacro> I hate the fact that PBS signals are plated
00:38:50 <Yexo> make a signals newgrf ;)
00:38:54 <glx> Sacro: use a static newgrf
00:39:00 <Rubidium> THEN MAKE BETTER GRAPHICS!
00:39:06 <Sacro> automatic signals are plated, not controlled
00:39:10 <Brianetta> I like to build signals realistically, so long straights will have regular (read: automatic) signals.
00:39:31 <Sacro> but automatics are plated
00:39:39 <Brianetta> Yeah, it's backwards, I know
00:39:46 <Rubidium> Brianetta: and for the others you need to manually set the route each time a train comes ;)
00:39:48 <Brianetta> We need a UK signals grf
00:39:56 <Sacro> but then most people don't seem to know which side of a signal is the front
00:40:05 <Brianetta> Rubidium: For PBS signals, there's a guy in a box somewhere doing just that.
00:40:08 <Sacro> and hence use 'in front' incorrectly
00:40:23 <Sacro> Rubidium: depends, some have auto buttons
00:40:32 <Sacro> other boxes uses Automatic Route Setting Equipment
00:40:47 <Brianetta> Mechanical interlocks (:
00:41:04 <Rubidium> ARS makes simsig boring
00:41:29 <Brianetta> PBS wait is now infinite
00:41:32 <Sacro> Rubidium: it is disableable
00:41:41 <Brianetta> Shame the two-way wait can't be made to be so
00:41:54 <Brianetta> and the one-way for that matter
00:42:26 <Brianetta> I find that trains which automatically turn around, ever, tend to do so *exactly* as I'm clicking the ignore signals button.
00:42:33 <Sacro> I want distant signals now :(
00:42:43 <Brianetta> Sacro: I want yellow ones
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00:42:49 <Sacro> Brianetta: yes, I might have to do a patch
00:42:50 <Brianetta> and longer reservations
00:43:10 <Brianetta> If a train can reserve through two blocks, we might occasionally actually see a green light
00:43:15 <Sacro> 4 aspect signals that reserve two blocks?
00:43:41 <Sacro> could even do flashing greens that reserve 3
00:44:33 <Rubidium> Brianetta: where did you gather the wisdom that you can't disable turning around at two and one way signals?
00:45:48 <Brianetta> I just had to quit openttd to change resolution
00:45:56 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by michi_cc :: r14852 /trunk/src (settings.cpp train_cmd.cpp) (2009-01-05 20:29:05 UTC)
00:45:57 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: -Feature: Automatic reversing in front of block signals can now be disabled by setting pf.wait_oneway_signal respectively pf.wait_twoway_signal to 255.
00:46:10 * Brianetta changes them to the magic number
00:47:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15749 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: apply coding style to disaster_cmd.cpp
00:47:55 <Brianetta> Sacro: The devs aren't railway folk
00:48:05 <Sacro> Brianetta: sigh, I know
00:48:36 <Rubidium> neither are the Dutch train drivers ;)
00:49:09 <Rubidium> "wij wachten voor het sein" -> "we are waiting in front of the signal"
00:49:50 <Brianetta> No, in Soviet Russia, the signal is in front of *you*
00:49:58 <Brianetta> and in the UK, as it happens (:
00:50:07 <Sacro> the signal is in advance of you
00:52:49 <glx> Rubidium: in french it's the same
00:52:57 <[wito]> I can't afford to connect my brand new road depot to the road. :/
00:53:53 <Brianetta> It's nice being able to disable breakdowns on the fly
00:54:06 <Brianetta> That used to be a "kick everybody off and start again" fail
00:54:50 <Sacro> Brianetta: they are all going bankrupt :(
00:55:15 <Sacro> whereas my profits are skyrocketing
00:55:22 <Sacro> probably cos I cram all my trains on one line
00:55:27 <[wito]> Sacro: feel free to share the wealth. :P
00:56:12 <Brianetta> reserve_paths = false
00:56:19 <Brianetta> That's not difficult to misinterpret (:
00:58:06 <Sacro> [wito]: still have a loan
00:58:28 <Sacro> I just know how to pull massive profits using coal
00:58:38 <Sacro> hmm, how to use conditional orders
00:58:48 <Sacro> or do i have a huge coal drop off
00:58:55 <Sacro> and have a couple of huge trains to shift any excess
00:58:59 <Sacro> I like the transfer idea better
01:00:45 <[wito]> yeah? Well I have a HEADQUARTER!
01:00:54 <[wito]> They don't call me the king of unneccessaryland for nothing!
01:01:09 <Sacro> Brianetta: i think we should have semaphores on the huge cross track brackety things
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01:03:03 <Sacro> hmm, how does this sytem work
01:03:23 <Sacro> i want them to dump any excess onto the overflow train
01:03:32 <Sacro> but if the powerstation can take it then it should
01:04:04 <Yexo> unload and leave empty to be exact
01:05:07 <Sacro> wh would you have unload and take cargo?
01:05:52 <Yexo> that can be usefull for two-way trains, where both stations have a coal mine and a powerplant
01:13:37 <[wito]> You're gonna bleed the land dry!
01:15:43 <Sacro> all these trains need coal
01:17:09 <[wito]> my horses are the only sound investment I've made so far in this game. :/
01:23:36 <Brianetta> Hmm, I think autoclean might bite us in the arse tonight
01:24:26 <Brianetta> Oh wait, the comments don't reflect the logic
01:26:19 <Brianetta> and the wiki's out of date now
01:26:39 <Brianetta> I'll fix it tomorrow if I remember, but right now I'm off to bed
01:30:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15750 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Fix: The big ufo sometimes landed just outside the map. Instead of landing, just disappear (fly away) in those cases.
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04:01:26 <racetrack> haha. I screwed up and my trains crashed. a couple of months later I get a popup "train is very old and needs replacing".
04:01:36 <racetrack> which I suppose is technically true
04:01:41 <racetrack> and it does need replacing
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06:24:00 <goodger> sorry, lack of coffee
06:24:00 <goodger> to clarify, non-coffee also good
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07:48:20 * goodger is going to try and locate a bulk source of relentless
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07:57:00 <dih> i need a good and reasonable colocation hoster
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08:08:42 <dyzdyz> do i need files from "data" folder for compiling ottd?
08:09:16 <dyzdyz> and what about files from "lang" folder
08:09:39 <Noldo> what are you trying to do?
08:10:17 <dyzdyz> i'm compiling ottd in msvs9
08:10:38 <dyzdyz> and when i compiled lataest rev, just added lang files from latest nightly
08:10:52 <dyzdyz> but now i'm compiling older rev
08:11:08 <dyzdyz> and i'm not sure where to get lang files
08:11:25 <Noldo> where did you get the source?
08:11:26 <Ammler> lang files are in trunk
08:11:30 <dih> if you grab the source, the source of the lang files are there already
08:11:47 <dih> then have a look in src/lang/ ;-)
08:12:41 <Noldo> dih: are you working on something ottd related nowadays?
08:12:59 <dyzdyz> dih: so what files i have to copy manually after compiling?
08:13:29 <dih> Noldo: ottd related or ottd?
08:13:49 <dih> dyzdyz, after compiling != for compiling!
08:14:35 <dih> the data files as described in the readme.txt file
08:14:44 <Noldo> dih: to which ever the answer is 'yes'
08:19:41 <petern> you don't need to copy anything
08:26:23 <dyzdyz> hmmm, my lang files just did not compile...
08:27:30 <dih> so there is just an empty bin/lang/ folder?
08:29:50 <dih> but there is an openttd executable in bin/?
08:30:07 <dih> why not paste your compile output to paste.openttd.org?
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08:32:19 <dyzdyz> the *.exe apperas not in bin folder
08:32:46 <dyzdyz> but in objs/Win32/Release
08:33:17 <dyzdyz> when i copied it into bin folder works almost fine :-)
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08:38:58 <dyzdyz> is it possible that because of not having copypaste.grf when compilig (just added it into data folder later) the fuction doesn't work?
08:39:24 <dyzdyz> does GRFs influent on compiling?
08:40:09 <dih> dyzdyz, why dont you read up on what the copypaste.grf is for?
08:40:28 <dih> and then wonder if you really need to ask that kind of question ^^
08:40:50 <dih> yes, my system cannot copy files from a/ to b/ because i am missing a game extention file
08:40:52 <dyzdyz> but i have no more ideas :-/
08:41:16 <dih> please please, just paste your compiler output to paste.openttd.org
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08:43:31 <dih> oh - you are not even using ./configure and Makefile ??
08:48:57 <dyzdyz> i downloaded and patched the source using tortoiseSVN, the patch matches rev, followe dinstructions from wiki, got build without errors, copiet data folder, including copypaste.grf...
08:50:01 <dyzdyz> sorry for misspellings
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09:12:14 * dih waves hello to DarkSSHClone
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09:17:01 <petern> hmm, still only 8 companies
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09:23:07 <SpComb> Darkvater: it's much more stylish to kill off your own clones using NickServ
09:24:07 <petern> thunderbird is really pissing me off
09:24:12 <petern> what's a good imap client for windows?
09:25:23 <petern> it's deleting behaviour leaves a lot to be desired
09:26:28 <Darkvater> tb was er slow when I used ti
09:26:32 <Darkvater> so back to outlook :)
09:27:02 <petern> there's no way to expunge a mailbox without installing a plugin
09:27:07 <petern> and then it takes AGES to do it
09:28:24 <petern> talking imap is not fun
09:31:55 <racetrack> petern: "file->compact folders"
09:32:04 <racetrack> that issues EXPUNGE
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09:34:27 <petern> bah, mulberry's shit too
09:35:41 <petern> but the windows version sucks
09:36:28 * petern ponders forking evolution and calling it 'creationism'
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09:51:10 * petern grumbles at software that requires annual licensing
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11:45:06 <Forked> racetrack: sent you an answer.. but when fiddling around shortly after the save I sent you I managed to crash the game too.. will see if I can reproduce
11:46:13 <racetrack> Forked: ahh, didn't see you in here. thanks for that
11:46:26 <racetrack> fixed my crasher too
11:46:55 <Forked> racetrack: seeing some strange behaviour when stopping and reversing the train while it's in a DTD. Using the diff and rev mentioned in my pm
11:47:24 <Forked> right now I have the same train thats in the save standing perfectly still while invisible .. heading for a depot at (it claims) 201km/h
11:49:16 <racetrack> awesome, again not realising its in the depot
11:49:30 <racetrack> gimme a sec, I'll commit/stash what I'm in the middle of and then rebuild for your rev
11:50:04 <Forked> I don't have much time to help right now, suppose to be working :) (but I end up being hardly working :p)
11:50:50 <racetrack> haha thats ok, I gtg to bed shortly anyway
11:51:10 <Rubidium> we can easily exempt you from that requirement ;)
11:51:43 <racetrack> cool then, I'll tackle it on the bus in the morning. you've got seven hours to fill up my inbox with whatever tests and another crap you can :)
11:51:52 <racetrack> Rubidium: pretty wife trumps your exemption, sorry ;)
11:52:43 <Forked> racetrack: if you have a new diff I can test a bit more later
11:53:27 <Forked> visually that was pretty cool.. had two wagons mergo into each other and then totally dissapair in a depot :p not sure how I did it
11:53:34 <racetrack> maybe. what I have isn't really suitable for consumption, but I'll look back a few revs to see if I have one that's a little more solid
11:53:49 <Forked> two trains stuck in there somewhere.. :)
11:53:52 <racetrack> if they're coming in from opposite sides they won't collide
11:54:00 <racetrack> the overlap looks really weird
11:54:24 <Forked> no rush, once things are ready and if I have time.. I can try and mess things up a bit :)
11:54:30 <racetrack> so much so that I'm considering only allowing one to enter at a time and making the other stop at a fake signal. just to make it look nice :P
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12:09:20 <racetrack> thats latest latest, with my barely-tested signalling stuff in
12:09:32 <racetrack> which isn't at all right yet, along the lines of my forum post
12:09:41 <racetrack> (ie checking the block on the wrong side before leaving)
12:09:59 <racetrack> but if you just play with single trains you should be fine
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12:22:01 <petern> hmm, i can't see how to do this mapping thing without an 'object' :o
12:26:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15751 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/ (debug.cpp string.cpp string_func.h):
12:26:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [MSU] -Fix: compilation
12:26:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [MSU] -Backport: improvement of string helper functions
12:31:02 <petern> gah, stupid web server
12:32:40 <dih> petern, if you want it tested, best hint i could give would be ask the openttdguys to run it on their dev game ;-)
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12:34:16 <Rubidium> dih: it's not like their test of that diff will be very useful
12:34:45 <Rubidium> especially as in their case half of the diff isn't even triggered
12:35:00 <petern> to avoid calling Sl(Read|Write)Byte() directly seems i have to go through hoops
12:35:44 <petern> (compare with railtypemap2.diff)
12:37:39 <Rubidium> the other solution is SLEG but that also introduces a global variable
12:41:14 <petern> somebody didn't like Sl(Read|Write)Byte(), can't remmeber who :o
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13:08:01 <Forked> woho. I have the invisible train
13:17:00 <petern> Rubidium, what's your opinion?
13:17:13 <petern> SLE, SLEG, or SlR/WByte?
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13:21:05 <petern> insert implicit "if you have one" :p
13:21:27 <Rubidium> and any reason why it shouldn't be similar to the house/industry/vehicle override stuf?
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13:26:47 <dih> this is useful if the admin needs to act quickly and saves him from possibly having to go through a long clients list finding the ip
13:31:08 <dih> or would you prefer a fs entry? :-P
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13:39:10 <DASPRiD> dih, you should not talk to yourself in #ottdcoop :P
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14:03:33 <dih> DASPRiD, perhaps you did not get what that was about ;-)
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14:25:14 <fonsinchen> I frequently get the following problem: I want to initialize some values when loading or starting a game, but I don't want to save them as they can be computed from other values. I don't quite know how to do that properly. Of course I can wait until the first function using the respective data is called and then see if it's initialized and act accordingly. But that's ugly. Is there a better solution?
14:26:33 <petern> there's a whole set of stuff done after load
14:26:40 <petern> in, er, saveload/afterload
14:26:41 <Forked> such hostility on the forum :\
14:27:04 <petern> i might just slip and click on the X for his posts
14:27:24 <Rubidium> "I wanted to report it"
14:27:53 <fonsinchen> Oh, nice. Thanks. I assume this is also called when starting a new game?
14:30:26 <SmatZ> AfterLoadGame is called after loading a game
14:30:52 <Rubidium> that one's called for both new and loaded games
14:30:53 <SmatZ> have a look at InitilizeGame or so :)
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16:07:11 <[wito]> I was under the impression that the server was paused when noone was connected
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16:12:42 <[wito]> you might want to log in real quick and clean up your network
16:12:53 <[wito]> there's quite a few congestion points where coal mines have ceased to be
16:13:38 <petern> ah, sacro's network :p
16:13:44 <petern> he's good at congestion points
16:14:10 <Sacro> petern: i had a rather efficient snazzy junction
16:14:19 <Sacro> 4 track line to 5 plat terminus
16:15:54 <Sacro> let me snag the OSX binary
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16:28:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15752 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Fix: don't try to (un)draw the cursor when the screen is not ready
16:28:59 <Rubidium> dih: and the way that osx rox is shown by the fact that no-one has fixed the OSX specific bugs nor implemented the missing automatic font selection
16:30:19 <dih> Rubidium, rocks are hard ^^
16:43:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
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16:46:40 <Bjarni> nice. The document I was promised to get at least 45 minutes ago have yet to arrive
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16:48:08 <Bjarni> yorick: looks like you have a 64 bit endian issue
16:48:40 <Bjarni> yorick: does this look correct to you?
16:48:44 <el_en> not you, the other yorick
16:49:14 <batti5> Romanian Train Set 0.2 is relased.
16:49:16 <Bjarni> yeah, that yorick --->
16:50:53 <Bjarni> At one time I was named "rajBin" in multiplayer games. That's how we figured that we need to do some serious endian fixing in the network code
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16:51:42 <el_en> Bjarni: probably saved you from guantánamo, too.
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16:55:04 <el_en> wtf, you haven't even heard of guantánamo?
16:55:36 <glx> isn't it supposed to be closed now?
16:55:37 <el_en> have you followed the news during the past 8 years?
16:55:42 <el_en> glx: not yet, but soon.
16:56:03 <el_en> or did they already manage to close it this quickly?
16:57:12 <Bjarni> they postponed closing it for one year
16:57:25 <Bjarni> they figured that they couldn't handle it as quickly as they presumed
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17:18:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15753 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15702)[FS#2742]: Crash when clicking the small area between the savegame list and the save button in the save game window.
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17:21:06 <Yexo> actually it's more a hack, but this makes it easy to backport
17:21:55 <taisteluorava> btw there is bug when you use bigger font which goes over "fontbox", it draw those letters in screen
17:22:00 <Yexo> if RC1 hadn't been released yet I'd have rewritten nearly all code that handles that window, to document the widgets
17:22:22 <Yexo> do you have an example of such a font?
17:22:34 <taisteluorava> when you set medium_size font over 12 youl's see it easily when moving any windows
17:23:39 <taisteluorava> i can upload a screenshot, it tells more than 100 word
17:25:46 <Yexo> not needed, I've seen the problem already
17:26:19 <Yexo> but this won't be fixed untill Albert's oop widgets hit trunk
17:27:08 <taisteluorava> but it happens only when text is too "long" to box
17:27:56 <petern> the gui is not scalable
17:28:05 <petern> so it's not a bug, but expected behaviour
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17:28:42 <taisteluorava> yeah, not big deal anyways
17:29:00 <Belugas> cpp_gui is the answer to all those problems
17:32:50 <el_en> what do you think, would Bjarni know that Toronto is the capital of Canada?
17:33:28 <Belugas> i think Bjarni would know better ;)
17:36:14 <petern> i though cpp_gui was dead?
17:36:25 <petern> or is nestedwidgets an evolution?
17:36:49 <Rubidium> cpp_gui is dead for a long time
17:38:07 <Belugas> not sure if estedwidgets is the nest step, but at least it's alive :)
17:38:23 * Belugas shacks his defective keyboard
17:39:38 <Belugas> and no, i don't REALLY think cpp_gui wold have solved it
17:39:44 <Belugas> not in that form, anyway
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18:00:18 <petern> Belugas, from what i saw of it nestedwidgets is a good thing
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18:08:16 <Alberth> Belugas: I had a look at cpp_gui, and decided we needed something simpler
18:15:23 * Belugas agrees with both of you, petern and Alberth
18:21:44 <Belugas> on the other hand... i fear that a system that would resize a gui/widget up until the text is fully displayed might give some very unbalanced windows
18:22:24 <Belugas> like... imagine a german translator getting wacko ;)
18:24:13 * Forked ponders about the attitude some people have
18:25:59 <Forked> if it's so horrible that they (devs) have not created a much wanted feature.. why not do it yourself instead of complaining how it's been overlooked FOR A BILLION years by ..someone else
18:26:21 <Alberth> Belugas: is not a problem, germans are used to such windows, and non-germans don't use that lang file :P
18:26:28 <Forked> can someone explain? :)
18:26:37 <Yexo> Forked: still talking about Sirkoz?
18:26:58 <Forked> let's call the person anonymous #5 ? it doesn't matter who it is, or does it?
18:27:23 <Yexo> no, but I'd like to be sure we're talking about the same one :)
18:27:52 <Belugas> it might matter. some users have a bery big ego and are quite furstrated when their beloved work did not find the direct path to trunk
18:28:03 <Alberth> everybody is used to complaining about computers and programs. Most probably don't even realize they can fix it if they wanted it
18:28:30 <Belugas> but Alberth, it means actually to... work...
18:28:46 <Forked> Belugas: It is not the author of the patch that is ..commenting on the feature being overlooked.. in this case
18:28:59 <Belugas> you've got to be kidding!... it's a game!!! why should I work at all???
18:29:15 <Belugas> Forked, it's something very common
18:29:25 <Belugas> it's an egocentric thing
18:30:18 <Alberth> Belugas: and not only do you have to work, you also have to think very hard of a better way to deal with the problem in a general way (ie not a solution that works for yourself only)
18:30:25 <Forked> "I shouted my needs, why the hell isn't the world doing what I want!?"
18:31:09 <Rubidium> because your on my foo list
18:31:24 <Forked> I still find it amazing that people actually spend their own time to make such cool stuff.. without demanding anything in return (except less bitching perhaps:p)
18:31:42 <Forked> Rubidium: I am? neat =p
18:32:29 <Rubidium> don't know and can't be bothered to look at it
18:32:48 <Rubidium> but well... lots of threads look like monologues
18:33:51 <pavel1269> ye, because not many ppl can compile? and those patches, not big, and anything very new, why bother? :-)
18:34:44 <Alberth> pavel1269: compiling from source is becoming a lost art
18:35:32 <pavel1269> but i am sad that i have never been able to produce somethink cool myself :-( ....
18:35:41 <Forked> well setting up the whole MS environment can be a pain.. but for me mingw32 has worked pretty good.
18:36:11 <pavel1269> i always know, how should i write it ... but i get stuck, when i dont know, how to write it in "real" ... :(
18:37:33 <Forked> Yexo: and yes, this time it was.
18:37:51 <Belugas> pavel1269, ne step at a time. programming is not something you receive at birth. you have to understand a lot.
18:39:13 <pavel1269> i do understand "a lot" for me .... but its just basics .... when it come to "&", a lot of pointers and templates i am lost :-(
18:40:28 <Alberth> pavel1269: that's normal. You try something and get stuck. You learn why your approach does not work, find a new approach, try, fail again, etc. Each time you get a bit further until you run out of steps you need to do. Then you have solved the problem !
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18:40:45 <Alberth> glx: there are some exceptions of course
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18:43:50 <Belugas> glx, yes, when starting to code from scratch, there are lots of stuff to "swallow"
18:43:58 <Belugas> that is my opinion, anyway
18:48:50 <Alberth> Current high level languages also create a barrier for OpenTTD coding. New programmers can write programs without ever seeing or using a pointer explicitly, so they don't understand the concept good enough to use in a language like C or C++
18:49:31 <Yexo> then it's a good idea for them to learn a bit about pointers
18:50:24 <Yexo> using high level languages is fine, but imo people should understand (at least to a certain point) how pointers work / how using advanced things effects the performance of your program
18:52:19 <Alberth> Rubidium: I proposed to introduce Point16 rather than using Point so all alternatives of the NWidgetPart union are (roughly) of the same size.
18:53:03 <Rubidium> with 64 bits pointers that'll still be the case
18:53:41 <Alberth> thinking ahead to 64bit systems eh? :D
18:55:22 <Alberth> I still have a Win95 system with a Pentium 120 standing here :P
18:56:56 <Rubidium> isn't DOS box for that?
18:57:09 <glx> Alberth: I have a 133MMX with win98 ;)
18:57:51 <Prof_Frink> I'm *using* a 166MMX.
19:00:44 <Rubidium> my CPU also supports MMX and is faster than 166 MHz
19:06:38 <Aali> I have a 64-bit system from 1993 :)
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19:23:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15754 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
19:23:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-17 18:42:46
19:23:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 63 fixed by thetitan (63)
19:23:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 fixed by habell (4)
19:23:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: romanian - 3 fixed by kkmic (3)
19:23:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 3 fixed by eusebio (3)
19:23:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: turkish - 3 fixed by Emin (3)
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19:41:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15755 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_house.cpp town.h): -Fix: Number of houses in house variables 0x44, 0x60 and 0x61 were incorrect after 0xFF had been reached and could desync clients joining afterwards.
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19:48:48 <Wolf01> after downloading the opengfx via the content manager and trying to activate it from the game options I receive a warning about corrupt or missing grf, it's that right?
19:53:12 <Wolf01> ok, now it works, I needed to close and restart ottd
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20:05:08 <frosch123> was the check-landscape-generator-sprites-check comitted?
20:05:24 <frosch123> hmm, or actually coded...
20:06:39 <Rubidium> there's a "read only the bits that are needed for the height" change and one that enabled the "fix slopes" for generated maps
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21:20:18 <Bjarni> <el_en> what do you think, would Bjarni know that Toronto is the capital of Canada? <-- do you think I'm stupid or something?
21:20:28 <Bjarni> <Belugas> i think Bjarni would know better ;) <-- at least one person knows me ^^
21:21:22 <SmatZ> does not knowing capitals make you stupid?
21:22:17 <Bjarni> but considering the fact that a relative moved to Toronto, I should know XD
21:22:22 <frosch123> you needed various hours to google for it though
21:22:33 <Bjarni> I have never seen him and he died of old age some years ago, but still
21:23:05 <Bjarni> <frosch123> you needed various hours to google for it though <--- no. I wasn't paying attention
21:23:10 <Bjarni> basically I fell asleep
21:23:16 <Bjarni> I had a hard exam today
21:24:07 <frosch123> so, no lecture? I see, easy to run out of sleep in that case.
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21:35:54 <Bjarni> <frosch123> so, no lecture? I see, easy to run out of sleep in that case. <-- actually I had lectures all day except for lunch break and the time for the exam
21:41:31 <sailo> hey guys, when becomes a town a city?
21:41:36 <el_en> right, the attempt to fool Bjarni into thinking Toronto is the capital instead of Vancouver has failed.
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21:42:11 <Rubidium> it starts as town or it starts as city
21:42:23 <Rubidium> but it won't change "type"
21:42:48 <sailo> so there are some towns, where you simply can't build a bank?
21:42:58 <sailo> even though they become huge?
21:43:08 <[wito]> sailo: banks are population-based
21:43:14 <[wito]> 1200 in temperate, I believe
21:43:19 <Bjarni> el_en: pisst.... Ottawa
21:43:36 <Rubidium> for that a town just needs 1200 inhabitants
21:43:48 <Rubidium> and then it's random anyways
21:44:07 <Rubidium> so a town with 1200 inhabitants can get a bank whereas one with a million might not
21:50:18 <SmatZ> [22:43:21] <Bjarni> el_en: pisst.... Ottawa <== frosch123 was right about "hours spent googling" :-D
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23:26:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15756 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: remove the assumption that the second windget is always the title bar. Also replace a few magic numbers with a const.
23:27:38 <SmatZ> uh uh tea and glass shards all over my floor, what have I done :-x
23:30:13 <Rubidium> proven Newtons theorem that tea doesn't fall far from the table
23:33:27 <Vikthor> Or maybe proven you should stop coding and go to bed, you OpenTTD-holic :p
23:34:09 <SmatZ> Vikthor: it would be great if I were coding for OTTD :) sadly, school is what matters now...
23:35:09 <Rubidium> nah, this is the best time of the day to do coding
23:35:38 <Rubidium> no stupid ln/yorick/... who's annoying you
23:36:03 <SmatZ> I am not annyoned by them though :)
23:45:16 *** eMJay is now known as emjay88
23:45:39 <emjay88> anyone here I can talk to about the Graphics replacement project?
23:46:51 <Rubidium> depends on the part you want to talk about
23:47:22 <emjay88> Just need a quick explaination of how I can help
23:47:34 <emjay88> I unzipped the opengfx files
23:48:01 <emjay88> and would like to have a go at building graphics, but don't really know anything about the codes for the metadata file
23:49:07 <Rubidium> that page lists the missing sprites, i.e. the sprites you can draw
23:49:28 <emjay88> yeah, I have been around the wiki, that's more of an "About the project" and "how to set up opengfx"
23:49:48 <emjay88> not really "you need to make a x file and it needs to be x by y pixels etc"
23:49:57 <Rubidium> when you're satified with them you can post them in the forum thread mentioned at the bottom of the page
23:51:48 <emjay88> ok, so I need to look for one that's missing, find it's pink square in the pcx file, and make an image that's that big?
23:52:07 <emjay88> ie, one that matches the dimensions of the pink placeholder?
23:52:22 <Rubidium> it should be black, not pink
23:52:41 <emjay88> might be a "feature" of Eye of Gnome :P
23:52:44 <Rubidium> so I think you need to try another palette in grfcodec
23:54:35 <Rubidium> anyhow, for town buildings you need to make sure that it fits within the "base" of a tile
23:55:17 <emjay88> how do I know how many tiles a particular building uses? (or are they all one tile?)
23:55:53 <Rubidium> decode the original graphics ;)
23:58:35 <emjay88> what palette do the openGFX files use?
23:59:49 <Rubidium> probably the windows palette
continue to next day ⏵