IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-03-16
⏴ go to previous day
00:02:26 <Ammler> well, we can still hope for the sub versions :-)
00:03:37 <Rubidium> extrapolating the last 50 days of OpenGFX work would suggest many many months before it'll be finished
00:03:42 <Rubidium> even then there's no sound/music
00:14:02 <nicfer> I'm trying now to put my openttd beta in my arch linux under the usr folder and I'm having some troubles
00:17:38 <nicfer> when I start it under that folder, the game throws the error:
00:17:38 <nicfer> openttd: symbol lookup error: openttd: undefined symbol: ubidi_openSized_3_8
00:19:00 <SmatZ> nicfer: already suggested
00:19:14 <nicfer> it's an error, not a suggestion
00:19:20 <SmatZ> glx: ^^^ here is your icu 3.8 ;)
00:19:42 <SmatZ> nicfer: suggestion is to upgrade compile farm'slibraries
00:20:16 <nicfer> hehe, I just had to symbolic link link some libraries
00:22:27 <Ammler> you are lucky, I need around 10 links
00:23:19 <nicfer> I've needed only to link just three
00:23:58 <Ammler> well, opensuse is like debian unstable or however that is called.
00:25:19 * Rubidium wonders why they chose to not make their libs backward compatible
00:25:26 <Ammler> me is wondering that linux isn't able to "autolink" :-)
00:25:51 <Rubidium> Ammler: it's perfectly able to do... but...
00:26:11 <Ammler> does debian "unstable" that?
00:26:12 <Rubidium> when the library renames their functions there's hardly anything your linker can do about it
00:27:07 <SmatZ> if the binary linked to libicui18n.so instead of libicui18n.so.38 or libicui18n.so.38.1 ...
00:27:23 <Ammler> Rubidium: ever tried to use the libs without version numbers?
00:27:27 <TinoDidriksen> ICU can be compiled in a neutral way that names functions without version suffix, but it is not recommended since sometimes behavior changes between versions.
00:27:33 <Rubidium> i.e. renames their function from "foo" to "bar" (or in this case foo_38 to foo_40)
00:27:54 <Ammler> well, what SmatZ suggested...
00:28:00 <Rubidium> TinoDidriksen: then the distros need to do that too, which apparantly they don't
00:28:39 <Ammler> at least opensuse does symlink to lib without number
00:28:55 <Rubidium> Ammler: symlinking won't solve it
00:29:20 <Ammler> that is what I do to have nighly builds running
00:48:21 <nicfer> so, what's the solution?
00:59:26 <Ammler> nicfer: doesn't symlinking work for you?
01:00:18 <Ammler> or installing the old lib
01:06:27 *** KritiK_ has joined #openttd
01:27:35 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
02:01:24 *** BobbySixkiller has quit IRC
02:12:17 *** DaleStan has joined #openttd
02:51:47 <nicfer> I've got an idea that could be an alternative to transfer orders, in certain ways
02:51:59 <nicfer> it's about a special station that also works as an industry that receives cargo
02:52:52 <nicfer> it would be quite exposed to abuse
03:12:09 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd
03:42:40 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd
04:50:41 *** sigmund has joined #openttd
06:24:30 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
06:45:22 *** tkjacobsen has joined #openttd
07:08:36 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd
07:10:31 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
07:10:42 *** planetmaker is now known as Guest257
07:19:49 <petern> automatic bouncer joining? how antisocial
07:27:51 <dih> no, was a bouncer upgrade, that required a restart ;-)
07:33:55 <petern> unless all those people are here right now, that was automatic joining :p
07:34:02 <petern> clones, we used to call them
07:34:06 <petern> banned, they used to be
07:53:46 *** flowOver has joined #openttd
08:04:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15739 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Codechange: Expose GRF ID of engines in var action property 0x25.
08:04:50 <dih> petern, they follow the backlog they get ;-)
08:07:11 <dih> besides - most people in here are not 'there' :-P
08:10:55 *** racetrack has joined #openttd
08:18:41 *** Timitry has joined #openttd
08:20:35 <Noldo> racetrack: how's your patch?
08:21:06 <racetrack> Noldo: looking good so far. its working for rvs now too
08:26:04 *** _racetrack has joined #openttd
08:26:24 *** _racetrack is now known as racetrack
08:28:27 *** Yeggstry has joined #openttd
08:29:13 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggs-work
08:31:12 <racetrack> don't you love it when something that initially seemed trivial suddenly turns into a horrendous nightmare
08:33:07 <racetrack> currently a drive-through rail depot joins track on both sides of the depot into a single signal block. that was my cheap and nasty hack, I knew I needed to do more to make it work properly but I'm only just getting to it now
08:33:20 <racetrack> so I've spent a couple of hours studying ExploreSegment()
08:33:34 <racetrack> and its just hit me how hard it is
08:34:22 <racetrack> basically I want a seperate signal block on each side of the depot, but both including the depot, and taking the trains direction into account
08:34:36 <racetrack> so a train leaving from one side doesn't block a train leaving from the other side
08:35:01 <racetrack> but the code that figures out if there's a train in a block has no concept of the "current" train
08:35:11 <racetrack> so I have nothing to check the direction of
08:35:47 <racetrack> there'll be a hacky way around it, of course, but it intially felt easy. now I'm facing a couple of evenings of studying the code before I get something
08:36:02 <racetrack> but you know, boo hoo :)
08:47:35 <racetrack> hmm. I may have an idea
08:47:38 <racetrack> ugly, but if it works ..
08:57:13 <Darkvater> dih: what is awesome?
09:01:05 <dih> i love what you did with openttdlib ;-)
09:01:19 <dih> and will add it in some way at some point :-)
09:02:21 <Darkvater> oh, that :). sorry dih, some timewarp lost the context
09:04:05 <dih> your email with "no, no, no" did though make me laugh ^^
09:09:00 <Darkvater> hey, we're having a RC1 already?
09:09:10 <Darkvater> sweet mother of god
09:15:56 <Darkvater> can't believe I missed it
09:16:31 *** Guest257 is now known as planetmaker
09:17:02 *** planetmaker is now known as Guest267
09:17:14 <Noldo> maybe it could be added to the topic too
09:17:57 *** Guest267 is now known as planetmaker
09:18:22 *** petern changes topic to "0.6.3, 0.7.0-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only | Discussion of realism is now a quietable offence"
09:19:13 <Darkvater> hihi, I like the last item
09:19:26 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
09:20:12 <SpComb> so we can discuss the lack of unrealism instead
09:26:20 <dih> SpComb, your logs of #oftc seem to be .... missing ;-)
09:33:34 <dih> at least, it looks like it from your log viewer ;-)
09:34:30 <SpComb> but who cares about any kind of #oftc logs? :/
09:34:53 <Darkvater> for a very long time I was lurking the logs
09:34:58 <SpComb> I'm more worried about the logs having gotten segmented into two after 2009-02-14
09:34:58 <dih> well, i tried to get hold of them
09:35:08 <SpComb> Darkvater: #openttd logs != #oftc logs
09:35:47 <dih> i wanted those from yesterday and today ;-)
09:36:17 <Darkvater> then I retract my statement
09:36:36 <dih> i read an reply from weasel but did not have the question ^^
09:38:34 <SpComb> it only ever was the one day
09:45:23 * petern remembers the good old days of chasing around to get release binaries...
09:45:41 <petern> when nightlies were often different revisions for different OSes...
09:50:24 * dih wonders if good old DASPRiD is 'round ^^
09:50:26 *** stuffcorpse has joined #openttd
10:03:39 *** maristo has joined #openttd
10:05:27 *** pavel1269 has joined #openttd
10:14:37 <dih> are you interested in writing some zend app for me? :-P
10:17:10 <colde> Zend as en zend framework?
10:48:02 *** stuffcorpse has joined #openttd
10:52:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15740 /trunk/src/ (namegen.cpp namegen_func.h strings.cpp): -Codechange: make code in namegen.cpp ~50% faster, apply coding style and add comments
10:53:16 <Noldo> which part of the patch is the making faster one
10:53:36 <SmatZ> Noldo: not using temporal buffer and using strecpy instead of strecat
10:57:30 <petern> right, so it doesn't keep scanning for \0 every time
11:17:28 *** tokai|ni has joined #openttd
11:33:12 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd
11:54:04 *** JapaMala has joined #openttd
11:54:23 *** JapaMala is now known as |Japa|
12:17:27 *** wrudolph has joined #openttd
12:18:26 <wrudolph> Does anybody know the official irc server of #openttdcoop?
12:18:36 <wrudolph> openttdcoop.org seems to be down
12:18:50 <Rubidium> the one you're connected to now?
12:20:46 * petern ponders updating his server
12:20:59 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
12:24:36 <Rubidium> the RC is a nightly?
12:25:17 <dih> was it not built in the night? ^^
12:25:49 <petern> it means i only play night *nods*
12:26:12 <petern> it's been running beta1 & 2 for ... well a short time :p
12:40:38 *** flowOver has joined #openttd
12:43:33 *** maristo has joined #openttd
12:49:56 *** Progman has joined #openttd
12:50:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15741 /trunk/src/namegen.cpp: -Fix (r15740): czech town name generator needs very long buffer, use different min size for each generator
12:54:16 *** tokai|ni has joined #openttd
13:02:48 *** welterde has joined #openttd
13:07:49 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
13:08:30 *** pavel1269 has joined #openttd
13:10:37 <taisteluorava> hm, openGFX terrain is nice but it take black borders away from map and add "water" instead. Is somewhere any swhich with i can turn black borders back?
13:13:05 <dih> afaik, as long as you use opengfx: no
13:13:28 <dih> but you should check that with the opengfx guys in the forums (?)
13:13:35 <Aali> its not water anymore, they changed it to black
13:13:52 <Aali> but the terrain newgrf is outdated compared to the base graphics set
13:14:39 <Ammler> but there should also be a updated newgrf version of.
13:17:16 <taisteluorava> so its "fixed" in 0.4b?
13:17:28 <petern> you are forever leaving off that word
13:17:43 <Ammler> :-D really sorry about.
13:20:18 *** Timitry has joined #openttd
13:26:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
13:26:34 <taisteluorava> thx guys, now have that openGFXterrain0.4b which have those black borders. Now it looks much better. BTW can someone add that into ingame online content?
13:27:26 <Rubidium> only the opengfx authors can do that and well... they most likely won't as there's the base graphics pack
13:28:02 <petern> opengfx already has black edge tiles
13:28:10 <petern> so yeah, use the base graphics, not the old newgrfs
13:29:07 <Ammler> opengfx newgrfs aren't supported officially ;-)
13:29:19 <taisteluorava> but openGFX is not completed and got those black boxes
13:30:00 <Ammler> well, not, if you use trainsets
13:30:40 <Forked> rick rolling is considered quite evil, right? we just ordered the "ultimate collection" cd to a coworker :\ he will get it in his mailbox in about a week
13:30:46 <Ammler> and a house set might also be needed.
13:31:04 <taisteluorava> but when i use trainset like nars2 or something like that, there is like 20 diffrent trains in list and it really suck
13:31:25 <petern> too much choice for you?
13:31:33 <taisteluorava> yep, i cant handle it ^^
13:32:18 <taisteluorava> some them are unbalanced and you can get those antique trains in 2050
13:32:34 <taisteluorava> why then doesent go away when they got "old"
13:32:43 <taisteluorava> in that train purache list
13:33:37 <taisteluorava> like with eGrvts you can buy horses in 2050, what is idea of that? ^^
13:34:26 <Forked> there is a setting for that
13:34:27 <Aali> turn off the vehicles never expire setting
13:34:35 <petern> well if you're turned on vehicles never expire then they will
13:34:39 <Aali> and I doubt horses will be extinct by 2050
13:36:35 *** Brokkoli has joined #openttd
13:48:21 <[wito]> eGRVTS needs more rickshaws. :P
13:50:21 <Belugas> [09:35] <taisteluorava> like with eGrvts you can buy horses in 2050, what is idea of that? ^^ <-- never heard of the amish?
13:51:45 <Belugas> and further on, it's a game, for god sake...
13:52:12 <Forked> but it's not realistic!11one ;)
13:52:31 <glx> who knows what will happen in 2050 anyway
13:52:48 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
13:53:38 <Belugas> Forked, may I simply add this: WHO GIVES A SHIT!!!
13:53:51 <Belugas> IT'S A GAAAAAAMEEEEEEUUUUUU!
13:56:28 <Forked> Belugas: I was just kidding.. therefor the "11one" bit :p
13:56:49 <petern> glx: the world will be replaced with a score board?
13:56:53 <Forked> I know how you feel about the realistic argument :)
13:57:52 <Darkvater> remember the topic!
14:01:10 <Belugas> what does 11one means?
14:01:24 <Belugas> i'm lost reagrding those acronymns
14:02:23 <Forked> it's me letting go of shift while making a bunch of exclamation points.. and following up with typing the number so it's hopefully a bit more clear I'm not being serious
14:02:42 <pavel1269> Belugas: it means "!!!" :-)
14:02:49 <dih> Belugas, have you ever seen people type a bunch of !!!!!
14:02:56 <dih> and at some point miss out the shift key?
14:03:30 <dih> just takes the mickey out of that
14:03:47 <dih> making the point that what was said is a joke / is rubbish
14:03:59 <Belugas> i remember seen WITH!!!!, a few other occurences in here, but i never stopped at figuring it, honestly
14:10:14 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
14:11:46 <Forked> anyway, I was just kidding :)
14:31:38 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
14:31:41 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
14:40:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15742 /trunk/src/ai/ai_info.cpp: -Fix (r15736): AIs with an invalid info.nut weren't ignored anymore.
14:44:03 <DASPRiD> “If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in.” – Edsger Dijkstra
14:45:11 <Forked> so we should call it "bugging" instead?
14:51:29 <Belugas> well... in that case, i might say there are a lot of users whoa re already bugging..
14:51:49 <guru3> random question: how do you define a rainstorm?
14:52:08 <DASPRiD> guru3, rain comming from the sky
14:52:11 <DASPRiD> and some storming with that
14:52:33 <[wito]> if it's a storm (winds over so-and-so fast) and it's raining, it's a rainstorm
14:52:33 <guru3> what if you can't see or hear?
14:52:34 <Belugas> #define rainstorm EVENT_RAIN + EVENT_STORM
14:52:35 <DASPRiD> that was a pretty random question tho
14:52:51 <guru3> has to do with my dissertation :/
14:52:53 <DASPRiD> EVENT_RAIN | EVENT_STORM
14:53:04 <Rubidium> Belugas: "#define rainstorm" is enough to define it
14:53:19 <guru3> what ammount of rain constitutes a storm?
14:54:12 <Belugas> less than 40 days and 40 night. After than, it's a fload
14:54:18 <Belugas> as dih would confirm you ^_^
14:55:22 <guru3> anyone with some slightly more serious ideas?
14:56:55 <guru3> i have a massive dataset of rain, and i need to decide how to pick out storms
14:57:06 <[wito]> guru3: well, anything even remotely approaching torrential would probably be a rainstorm
14:57:23 <guru3> that's obviously a storm
14:57:26 <Rubidium> 0.2 - 0.3 L of water? (as per: storm in a glass of water)
14:57:42 <[wito]> guru3: you can't really define a storm without wind data
14:58:02 <guru3> all ive got is rainfall data
14:58:07 <[wito]> An utter soak? You betcha!
14:58:10 <guru3> and Rubidium, you can't use volumes of water -_-
14:58:15 <[wito]> But a storm, that's the wind mate
14:58:40 <guru3> ok, i guess i shouldn't use storm so casually... extended periods of rain generally associated with storms
14:58:55 <Rubidium> storms are based on speed of wind
14:58:58 <guru3> events that aren't a spattering
14:59:12 <guru3> ok, storm is the wrong word
14:59:18 <guru3> call it how do i tell when it's raining
14:59:24 <guru3> without just spattering
14:59:34 <guru3> now it just sounds stupid though
14:59:43 <Belugas> [10:59] <@Rubidium> 0.2 - 0.3 L of water? (as per: storm in a glass of water) <--- ROFL!!! I loVE IT!!
15:00:03 <Rubidium> guru3: is very light rain also rain?
15:00:34 <Rubidium> guess rain starts at 1.0mm/h
15:00:44 <guru3> i guess i'm looking for the ammount of rain over time that doesn't infiltrate or get intercepted
15:02:54 *** OsteHovel^PDA has joined #openttd
15:03:33 <petern> mm/h is a very slow speed ;)
15:04:15 <Rubidium> lets measure it in parsec per second ;)
15:04:41 <guru3> i think that 1mm/h would in the first hour be entirely intercepted/infiltrated
15:05:01 <Rubidium> that totally depends on the preexisting conditions
15:05:12 <guru3> assuming a ADWP of at least a week
15:05:53 <guru3> antecedent dry weather period
15:06:10 <guru3> ~= ammount of time since it last rained
15:06:17 <DASPRiD> class EventStorm extends EventRain { }
15:06:26 <glx> well extra dry and extra wet can have the same effect for a rain ammount
15:06:29 <Rubidium> hmm... we should try ADWP ;) (one of it's other definitions)
15:06:42 <Rubidium> guru3: even then it depends on the preexisting conditions
15:07:18 <guru3> but even if it does, i don't have that information
15:07:22 <Rubidium> if it has been foggy around freezing for the whole week the results would be different from when it
15:07:40 <guru3> assuming a temperate climate
15:07:42 <Rubidium> was 40 degrees celsius for a week with very low humidity
15:09:22 <Rubidium> that doesn't say much either...
15:09:51 <Rubidium> I guess you should get your preconditions straight or just go with an arbitrary number
15:10:06 <guru3> i'm thinking it's going to be arbitrary
15:10:18 <Rubidium> and what says that rain intercepted before reaching the ground is actually measured?
15:10:23 <guru3> probably going for 0.8mm/10 minutes
15:10:38 <guru3> and i'm using rain guage data
15:11:08 <Rubidium> wikipedia classifies that at heavy rain
15:11:15 *** Belugas has joined #openttd
15:11:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Belugas
15:11:45 <Rubidium> guru3: I need to give you a link? You can't guess it?
15:12:05 <guru3> i'm assuming an obvious page then?
15:12:34 <Rubidium> actually... it's the first result of google with the obvious keyword when looking for rain
15:17:36 <Rubidium> guru3: were you able to find the wikipedia page?
15:17:42 <Lukas> gibts einen deutschen entwickler hier?
15:18:36 <guru3> it's taking ages to go through a mere 100000 minutes of data D:
15:18:46 <guru3> i may need to come up with a better way of doing this
15:19:38 <Rubidium> you know it actually took like 3 months to gather that data? ;)
15:19:51 <guru3> i've only got data going back to december 2006
15:20:09 <guru3> i don't have enough memory to do the entire dataset at once
15:20:10 <Rubidium> so anything that's faster than 3 months can process it in real time ;)
15:21:17 <guru3> because i do have to do real-time analysis
15:21:21 <guru3> but i've got to do this backlog first
15:23:27 <Rubidium> why do you need to have the whole dataset in memory anyways?
15:23:49 <Rubidium> just mmap the dataset
15:24:34 <guru3> or any high level language
15:26:33 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
15:49:23 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest313
15:49:25 *** DaleStan has joined #openttd
15:49:41 *** Mortal is now known as Guest314
15:54:58 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
15:55:38 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
16:00:14 <DASPRiD> petern, you aren't pretty :X
16:00:15 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
16:00:51 <DASPRiD> by the way, was my grf decoder completly used in the newgrf repos?
16:22:12 *** tkjacobsen has joined #openttd
16:23:41 <eQualizer> Has there been a change in how you convert trains from one tracktype to another?
16:24:24 <eQualizer> Train should preserve it's orders if I sell it, convert depot, and build a new train?
16:25:00 <petern> i wouldn't say 'preserve'
16:26:00 <eQualizer> What would be more proper word?
16:27:25 <glx> latest sold train orders are 'preserved'
16:28:18 <petern> well, it's not the train preserving anything, he
16:28:19 <Ammler> eQualizer: I would first build the new train and clone the orders
16:28:25 <SmatZ> but you have to use the same depot for buying next vehicle
16:28:36 <Ammler> then delete the obsolete trains...
16:30:17 <eQualizer> Ah, now I got it. The orders weren't copied because I accidently moved wagons to another line, and then sold everything on the depot.
16:33:30 *** Everest has joined #openttd
16:33:37 <Belugas> for the very first time in say... 2 years, i took the time to sit down in the cafeteria, eat and read
16:34:08 <Belugas> was a book on guitars, different makers, models and so on
16:34:24 <Belugas> for those who like guitar books...
16:34:39 <yorick> sorry to hear that belugas
16:35:13 *** Singaporekid has joined #openttd
16:38:23 <Everest> what's new in 0.7.0? except download manager
16:38:39 <Belugas> petern, i suck on keyboard much more than you on guitar!
16:38:49 <petern> rubbish, for i suck on keyboard too
16:42:40 <Rubidium> Yexo, a more interesting question would be: what's new and isn't in 0.7.0
16:43:23 * Rubidium was thinking about newai ;)
16:52:07 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
16:53:40 <Yexo> Belugas: that isn't new!
16:54:37 <Yexo> [wito]: speaking about that, did you create a nice mapgen script yet?
16:54:37 <wision> if you want realism, start your own transport company irl :)
16:54:45 <Belugas> [12:40] <@petern> rubbish, for i suck on keyboard too <-- well... sice you NEVER sent me anything, i cannot judge :D
16:54:50 <[wito]> Yexo: working on it. :P
16:55:12 <Belugas> wision, i dering to you widsom
16:55:24 <petern> that sounded like a hint
16:55:40 <petern> "since i never sent you anything" :o
16:55:44 *** Schwalbe has joined #openttd
17:02:22 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:02:48 *** Schwalbe is now known as Swallow
17:05:33 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
17:11:38 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
17:22:59 <frosch123> petern: since when do we use variables in the range 0x00 - 0x3F for feature-specific stuff, eh?
17:26:01 <petern> it's not feature specific
17:26:20 <petern> i just didn't bother adding it to the others
17:26:45 <petern> feel free to change it to something better, it's not documented on the wiki
17:27:19 <frosch123> hmm, you mean also for houses, industries and industry tiles
17:27:57 <petern> (mainly because there's little point)
17:28:18 <frosch123> currently only industries would be accessible from industrytiles of other newgrf
17:31:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15743 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move the definitions of some fake squirrel types to their own file.
17:32:44 <Belugas> reminds me i've got to look for that house prop 15 stuff..
17:35:05 <Belugas> and work on newobjects, of course of course
17:36:23 <frosch123> hmm, picka has still not explained, why it is important whether there are 255 houses or 400 of on type
17:36:52 <Yexo> It's the local counts that I'm concerned with, mainly so I can balance the different classes of building in the city. <- He did
17:37:11 <frosch123> but the can already do that with the appearance property
17:38:52 <Yexo> not if you want it to balance differntly depending on some other variable
17:40:12 <frosch123> iirc there are also random bits in the "allow construction"-callback
17:40:30 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
17:40:53 <Yexo> in that case I have to agree with you that it's already possible
17:40:58 <frosch123> hmm, no, that was another request we turned down :p
17:41:54 *** energetic has joined #openttd
17:43:33 * Belugas wonders if we should not have something more flexible for those grf variables
17:44:18 <Yexo> Belugas: seeing some recent discussion, I agree, but I don't think that's possible without 1) breaking current newgrfs or 2) Duplicating lots of code
17:44:58 <frosch123> we need a "variable translation table" :p
17:45:59 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
17:52:14 <frosch123> hmm, in fact, adding a custom mapping of variable number to 4-byte-identifier (which is resolved on loading) would quite likely solve the limited-slots problem, and we can happily waste the remaining ones.
17:54:27 <Belugas> that was the idea behind my wondering indeed
17:54:55 <Belugas> but that would leave Patch with a real problem to solve, if ever a will to solve it arise
17:57:04 <frosch123> would it? don't know. maybe it is just a problem for grfcreators
17:59:34 <frosch123> however, it is quite downwards compatible, and we do not have to duplicate any code
18:00:11 <Yexo> that sounds like a very nice solution
18:00:29 <frosch123> but likely not for 0.7 :)
18:06:00 <petern> GIGANTIC, GIGANTIC, GIGANTIC, a big big love
18:07:08 * frosch123 was just watching a video about a new japanese female roboter
18:07:28 <frosch123> I cannot agree with you
18:15:51 <George> frosch123: Should ARV overtake other ARV if it is broken?
18:15:53 *** tkjacobsen_ has joined #openttd
18:16:51 <frosch123> iirc arv cannot be overta - hmm - whatever
18:17:54 <frosch123> but that is more a question for rubidium :)
18:22:04 *** Belugas has joined #openttd
18:22:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Belugas
18:24:57 <George> Rubidium: Should ARV overtake other ARV if it is broken?
18:38:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15744 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r9667): when town generator failed to create requested number of towns, there were too many cities
18:48:41 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
19:04:59 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
19:13:18 *** tkjacobsen_ has joined #openttd
19:21:38 *** Illegal_Alien has joined #openttd
19:27:08 <pavel1269> hmm how do i disable train turning at pbs signal ...
19:27:20 <pavel1269> tryed wait_oneway_signal = 255 and wait_twoway_signal = 255
19:27:31 <frosch123> there is also some wait_pbs_signal
19:28:38 <SmatZ> it's something like "wait_free_pbs_way" or so :)
19:29:28 <pavel1269> wait_for_pbs_path ... all three to 255?
19:30:16 *** Combuster is now known as [food]buster
19:31:36 <pavel1269> okay, all three work :-)
19:35:06 <pavel1269> why i dont see a point in three settings :-)
19:35:42 <pavel1269> btw ... only wait_for_pbs_path to 255 is enought, whats point in other settings?
19:36:27 <pavel1269> maybye i know now, nvm me
19:36:32 <Yexo> the others are for normal one-way signals and normal two-way signals
19:37:21 <pavel1269> well, if i set this wait_for_pbs_path to 255 .... it "overdrive" them
19:37:25 <SmatZ> not all people use PBS, are not all people use ONLY PBS
19:37:38 <pavel1269> and they wont turn arond at all
19:39:09 <pavel1269> well i play also ONLY with PBS :-)
19:39:50 <pavel1269> btw, any messages from celestar peter?
19:41:36 <pavel1269> did i miss something?
19:48:00 <Zuu> I've just written an AI that builds cars that randomly drives aronud in cities. Any name ideas? Mine are CityCarsAI, RandomCarAI, CongestionAI.. Best descriptive I think CityCarAI, but I don't like the CC-abbrevation. Coke and Cancer don't make any good for an AI.. :s hmm TownCarsAI could work. Any ideas?
19:48:51 <frosch123> PublicTraffic, HeavyTraffic
19:49:21 <pavel1269> Zuu: whats point of that ai?
19:50:02 <Zuu> Or making congested streets if you configure it to put 50 cars in each town :)
19:51:56 <Zuu> PublicTraffic is a bit silly, as you probably will use it with a car GRF, and not with buses.
19:52:21 <Belugas> ho my god! It's what the whole community was begging for, since eons!
19:52:23 <Zuu> TownCarsAI I think it will be.
19:53:13 <Zuu> Belugas: How much are you paying me for holding it up a month? ;-) Keeping reality away a little more. :)
19:53:54 <frosch123> the longer you hold it back, the longer you can enjoy this place before being banned
19:54:35 <frosch123> what did you expect?
19:59:05 <petern> call it 'Town Polluting Artificial Unintellience'
20:00:09 <Zuu> Hmm, would be silly to make this the first of my AIs that have the AI suffix in the name :-)
20:00:58 <pavel1269> TownCarsAI dont have it? :-)
20:01:23 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
20:01:25 <Zuu> It have, yes, so perhaps it should be just TownCars :)
20:03:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: orudge * r15745 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix: Resolve compile error in fileio.cpp on OS/2 - base paths on OS/2 behave much like DOS
20:05:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: orudge * r15746 /trunk/src/thread_os2.cpp: -Fix: Update threading code for OS/2, add mutex support
20:06:34 <frosch123> more rare than os/2 ?
20:12:27 <Rubidium> George: it's coded not to do it
20:13:19 <orudge> petern: it happens based upon a peculiar combination of the phase of the moon and the state of the local sewage network
20:13:54 <George> Rubidium: Unfortunately, when many ARVs are runinng on the road, that leads to lots' of jams. Any chance to change it?
20:13:59 <orudge> hmm, my last commit before that was January 2008, whee.
20:17:15 *** energetic has left #openttd
20:19:14 <pavel1269> wow, oruge is alive ... once again :-)
20:20:26 <Rubidium> George: there's a chance, but it's pretty slim because the overtake code is kinda complex
20:21:25 <orudge> pavel1269: I've never been dead, just busy ;)
20:21:55 <George> is there a task for that on bugs.openttd.org or I need to make one?
20:22:00 <pavel1269> i just remmeber as you were talking about your current project .... somethink with in-game music :-)
20:22:07 <pavel1269> but its rare to see you :-)
20:22:17 <yorick> orudge is undead, but it's secret ;)
20:22:22 <pavel1269> same as with Darkvater :-)
20:22:25 <Rubidium> George: no idea, but I there's a fair chance someone made that feature request already
20:22:48 <pavel1269> yorick: nice secret, now over 100ppl know it :-P but ... shhhhh :-)
20:24:21 <George> Rubidium: Quick search was not successful. So I'll make one
20:27:54 <SmatZ> Brianetta: good to know :)
20:28:12 <Rubidium> so you're the culprit why I couldn't join a 0.7.0-RC1 server when I wanted to
20:30:40 *** energetic has joined #openttd
20:39:04 <fonsinchen> Has anyone had a look at the diagonal levelling patchs? FS#730
20:45:36 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
20:45:37 <SmatZ> but yes, I noticed there was a new version uploaded :)
20:45:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15747 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2736]: road ownership getting lost when removing a road stop.
20:47:15 <Brianetta> network/network_server.cpp doesn't compile
20:47:37 <pavel1269> u broke it Brianetta? :-)
20:47:39 <Brianetta> /home/autopilot/openttd-svn/src/network/network_server.cpp: In function 'void NetworkAutoCleanCompanies()':
20:47:39 <Brianetta> /home/autopilot/openttd-svn/src/network/network_server.cpp:1448: error: expected primary-expression before '<<' token
20:47:51 <Rubidium> Brianetta: try svn diff
20:47:55 <SmatZ> [21:47:41] <DorpsGek> CompileFarm: strgen (r15718) completed.
20:48:07 <Rubidium> it'll show that you've got a unresolved conflict
20:48:30 * Brianetta reverts *and* cleans
20:49:04 <Brianetta> I should bind that to a hot key or somethign
20:49:16 <Brianetta> then label that key "fix it"
20:49:59 <Rubidium> sounds like you svn switched from 0.6.3 with the custom disable unprotecting protected companies "patch"
20:50:02 <Brianetta> I suppose I should see what the latest versions of these newgrfs in my pack are
20:50:03 <pavel1269> or bind under win buttom .... as soon as you see win you think of bug :-)
20:50:18 <Brianetta> Win is bound to Super
20:50:28 <Ammler> maybe you don't need them anymore?
20:50:53 <Brianetta> Ammler: Maybe... but once can't be sure that the old crap in my pack is on the master server's list
20:51:12 <Brianetta> pavel1269: It's a Unix mask key
20:51:24 <Brianetta> Ctrl, ALt, Super, Meta, Shift, Coke-bottle
20:51:49 *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry
21:01:36 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o SmatZ
21:05:00 <Brianetta> Are Blunck's newgrfs available on the master server?
21:05:31 <Brianetta> but I am not surprised
21:06:04 <Ammler> I made a bet with pm, that dbset 9 will be
21:07:38 <frosch123> sound like a bet for your children
21:08:22 <Brianetta> Blunck can't stand OpenTTD
21:09:05 <Rubidium> Brianetta: he has a bad way of showing that
21:10:04 <Rubidium> e.g. the german translation of OpenTTD topic has 5 of his posts on the first page
21:10:05 <Brianetta> I sit and read some of his posts, understanding the words but not the sentiment.
21:10:40 <Brianetta> Unless he;s recently had a massive change of heart
21:10:54 <Rubidium> and soon I've got THE perfect counter strike for when he tells PBS has been in TTDP for 4 years
21:10:56 <Brianetta> in which case, I'll check to see if he's re-worded his license on newstations
21:11:19 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
21:13:37 <petern> Rubidium: not in any stable release :D
21:13:59 <Brianetta> What's this counter? (:
21:16:47 <Brianetta> "THE perfect counter strike"
21:17:11 <Brianetta> In Englich, the word "counter" can be used as a noun for something that counters something else
21:17:25 <Brianetta> as well as somethign that counts
21:17:41 <Brianetta> wow, that word's quite a busy onwe
21:17:42 *** Combuster is now known as [food]buster
21:18:08 <Rubidium> oh, well... I meant it as an adverb
21:19:13 <Brianetta> but the noun-phrase "counter strike" is, along with others like "counter argument", a "counter"
21:19:28 <Brianetta> what's this counter [strike]? (-:
21:21:09 <Yexo> Brianetta: petern already told you so :p
21:21:22 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
21:21:35 <Brianetta> [21:13] <petern> Rubidium: not in any stable release :D
21:21:40 <Brianetta> That's not telling me
21:21:46 <Brianetta> That's telling me not
21:22:28 <Yexo> "PBS has been in TTDP for 4 years" "Not in any stable release"
21:22:56 <Brianetta> Oh, I thought he meant "... of OpenTTD"
21:23:14 <Brianetta> but yeah, that's pretty cool
21:24:40 <glx> though it's not in a stable OTTD release either ;)
21:25:20 <Brianetta> defined as, only bug fixes are applied
21:25:43 <glx> true, but it's a RC for now
21:25:47 <Brianetta> Stability is in the fact that no new feature will come and b0rk it up
21:26:08 <Brianetta> A candidate for the anti-Blunck bazooka
21:39:54 *** welshdragon has left #openttd
21:41:22 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
21:49:19 <Brianetta> What makes Makefile.bundle ?
21:50:09 <Brianetta> Is there any way to tell configure to try harder?
21:50:28 <Brianetta> .....Generating Makefile...
21:50:28 <Brianetta> Generating lang/Makefile...
21:50:28 <Brianetta> Generating objs/Makefile...
21:50:28 <Brianetta> brian@lydia ~/openttd-0.7> make
21:50:28 <Brianetta> Makefile:152: Makefile.bundle: No such file or directory
21:51:03 <Brianetta> Perhaps a cache file to delete?
21:52:25 <SmatZ> Brianetta: somehow it works for me (make bundle)
21:52:42 *** [food]buster is now known as [com]buster
21:53:07 <Rubidium> Brianetta: it makes Makefile.bundle after Makefile and before lang/Makefile (doesn't tell about it though)
21:53:26 <Rubidium> it not working is odd cause it's a simple cp
21:54:14 <Rubidium> there're probably changes there too and you only reverted src
21:55:17 <Brianetta> There shouldn't be any changes in this one
21:56:54 <Brianetta> configure contains no reference at all to Makefile.bundle
21:57:21 <Rubidium> Brianetta: neither for Makefile.bundle.in?
21:57:38 <Brianetta> E486: Pattern not found: bundle 131,0-1 Bot
21:57:40 <Rubidium> well... then your checkout is broken
21:57:50 <Brianetta> I just switched from 0.6.3
21:58:29 <petern> did you switch from the src directory or something? heh
21:58:30 <SmatZ> Brianetta: as in "svn switch"?
21:58:35 <Brianetta> brian@lydia ~/openttd-0.7> rm configure
21:58:36 <Brianetta> brian@lydia ~/openttd-0.7> svn up
21:58:36 <Brianetta> Restored 'configure'
21:58:41 <Brianetta> Updated to revision 15747.
21:58:50 <Brianetta> Well, that might have done it....
21:59:03 <Rubidium> the revision is bull cause that's always the HEAD revision of /
22:01:42 <petern> i think you'd be better off with a fresh checkout anyway
22:03:10 <Brianetta> That shouldn't be necessary
22:03:19 <Brianetta> My server copy was fine
22:03:25 <Brianetta> and it had patches to remove
22:13:13 <Brianetta> OK, repeating the switch did it.
22:13:29 <Brianetta> same args, exactly as before, from my command history.
22:13:37 <Brianetta> it's a dumb, dumb revision control tool.
22:19:17 *** KritiK_ has joined #openttd
22:19:20 <petern> and yet you're the only person i've ever noticed who's had problems doing that :o
22:19:53 *** xukelij has joined #openttd
22:24:22 *** racetrack has joined #openttd
22:24:28 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK
22:25:06 <Brianetta> So how many people have you watched?
22:25:27 <Brianetta> I should only have to tell it to switch once.
22:30:15 <Rubidium> then file a bugreport for subversion ;)
22:36:54 <petern> heh, 11 seconds to compile 0.4.0.1 :o
22:39:45 <petern> i'm not that bothered :)
22:40:01 <Brianetta> Rubidium: I wish I could, but I don't want to
22:40:33 <Brianetta> More and more bug reporting systems require an account to be created, and I long ago reached the level of "cannot be arsed"
22:40:36 <petern> and then another minute making the links :p
22:42:07 * Rubidium wonders why people are so against the developers having some way to ask for more information on bug reports
22:43:01 <Brianetta> Rubidium: I once emailed a rather detailed bug report to the maintainer of a package. He asked me to file it on his web based thingy. I told him I'd given him enough info, and if he wanted it in his web based thingy he could put it there.
22:43:37 <Brianetta> It's that or nothing. I had better things to do than become a tester for him.
22:44:27 <Brianetta> If he needed more specific info, well, he definitely had my email address.
22:45:15 <Rubidium> but not having the bug reports in one single location makes it soo much easier for the developers to ignore it
22:45:40 <petern> SmatZ, i'm a bit confused by bjarni
22:45:55 <Brianetta> If they want to ignore things, they can. Just provide a web based interface and demand that people use it instead of bothering them by email, and they won't even have to ignore it.
22:46:28 <DorpsGek> petern: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 1 hour, 39 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <Bjarni> on top of all the other tasks for "someone". Expect that he will not get time for this task until 2037
22:49:40 <Rubidium> Brianetta: I'm aware quite a few bugreports are made at the various locations but keeping track of them is basically impossible; with various locations I mean the tens of GRF threads and different non tt-forums.net fora (several of them in languages online translators can not properly translate)
22:50:26 <Brianetta> Rubidium: I was moaning about subversion, not OpenTTD
22:50:46 <Brianetta> Can your web based bug tracker make a bug on receipt of an email?
22:50:52 <Rubidium> well, here you need to register too
22:50:53 <Brianetta> Many commercial helpdesk packages can
22:51:02 <Rubidium> and I don't think it can
22:51:10 <Brianetta> well, that might need addressing.
22:51:21 <Brianetta> If I have an account on flyspray, I can't remember the details.
22:51:29 <Rubidium> and I reckon many commercial helpdesk packages need Windows and lots of money
22:52:29 * Brianetta lives in Linux-land, where many commercial products are free software
22:56:29 *** energetic has left #openttd
23:04:24 *** Mortomes is now known as Mortomes|bday|21
23:06:22 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
23:23:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15748 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp:
23:23:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r1722): the assumption that the number of tiles on the X side equals the
23:23:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: number of tiles on the Y side does not hold anymore. As a result of this
23:23:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: submarines could be created far outside of the map. Later in r15733 we would
23:23:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: test whether that tile would be a water tile and we'd find out the tile isn't
23:23:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: within the map.
23:33:10 <Brianetta> Start date: 1920-01-01
23:33:10 <Brianetta> Current date: 1920-01-01
23:33:10 <Brianetta> 8 spectators allowed
23:33:11 <Brianetta> Name: Brianetta's Standard - ppcis.org/standard
23:38:09 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
23:38:12 *** Combuster is now known as [com]buster
23:47:52 <glx> Brianetta: I don't see it in the list
23:48:13 <Brianetta> It'll be back as soon as I've got road vehicles back on the correct side of the road
23:48:32 <Rubidium> so now they aren't on the right side :(
23:48:35 *** stuffcorpse has joined #openttd
23:48:41 <Brianetta> You'd think this game was based on something that wasn't written in Chiping Sodbury
23:49:08 <Brianetta> Rubidium: The right side of the road is totally, unacceptably, foreign.
23:49:23 <Brianetta> It's a UK scenario server.
23:50:33 <wision> why do you think that left-side should be default? (i assume you think so from "stupid defaults")
23:50:58 <[wito]> wision: GBP is, so why not?
23:51:59 <Brianetta> Heh, sarah_pilot lost her name
23:52:19 <wision> no idea.. i'm just asking
23:52:25 <Brianetta> wision: Because Transport Tycoon was written in Wiltshire.
23:52:43 <Prof_Frink> openttd should geo-ip itself, look up what side of the road to drive on from Wikipedia, and use that as default.
23:53:08 <Brianetta> In Chipping Sodbury, Chris Sawyer drove on the left.
23:59:01 <Brianetta> It's a British game, and NOBODY should forget that.
23:59:14 <Brianetta> We invented raiways, and Chris Sawyer.
continue to next day ⏵