IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-02-27
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00:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause> grep DAY_TICKS src/*.h
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00:27:58 <Belugas> [18:42] <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand some people... "i want a button that automatically places tram lines on every road" <--- amazing, isn't it? Let's spell it out loud, shall we?
00:27:58 <apo> I'm trying to set up a dedicated server and simply copied my ~/.openttd over to the server, but when I run it with -D -c <conf>, it doesn't choose the settings I want (for example, the map has a size of 256x256 instead of 2048x2048)
00:28:10 <Belugas> L A Z I N E S S !!!!\
00:29:19 <planetmaker> apo: I guess it looks for the file in <binarypath>/<conf>
00:29:41 <apo> planetmaker: I specified what configfile to use, though
00:30:01 <KenjiE20> it's a relative path from the launch dir
00:30:05 <planetmaker> with fully qualified path?
00:30:14 <apo> apo@0au:games$ ./openttd -D -c ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
00:30:33 <planetmaker> hm.... despite. give it a try and copy the cfg in the binary dir
00:32:31 <planetmaker> hm... works for us to have the cfg in the binary dir
00:32:55 <planetmaker> try w/o specifying the cfg. And did you check that there's a different size specified in that cfg?
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00:33:58 <KenjiE20> doesn't 8 = 256x256?
00:34:04 <KenjiE20> iirc mines set to 9 for 512
00:34:05 <Belugas> cannot help you, apo. never did any dedicated stuff
00:34:23 <KenjiE20> I could be wrong mind
00:35:38 <Belugas> map_[xy]=8 equals to 256*256. tht i can confirm
00:36:05 <KenjiE20> Map_x = 10 = 1024 : map_x = 9 = 512 <-- on the wiki
00:37:15 <apo> In my local client, everything's on 2048. Wonder where it stored its stuff...
00:37:48 <KenjiE20> openttd.exe dir > mydocs
00:42:03 <Rubidium> apo: do-not-readme.txt
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00:44:00 <apo> Rubidium: Silence. I copied the config over, but the settings (especially map size) weren't copied. That's probably not in the readme =P
00:46:04 <Rubidium> apo: can you show the config?
00:47:53 <apo> When I started openttd, it had the right settings, so I'd assume that they're all in there.
00:48:47 <Rubidium> that config says map size 8, so if OpenTTD uses that it's doing the right thing
01:09:11 <nn64> I'm in need of some help
01:09:32 <nn64> Ok so I want to set up a Massive new GRF server
01:10:18 <nn64> problem is %80 of the grfs are not yet in bananas.openttd.org/en/
01:10:40 <nn64> but it would seem that the package that contains all the ones im using is
01:10:45 <Belugas> just advertise on a web site or else the grfs yu are going to use
01:10:58 <nn64> #openttdcoop NewGRF package 7.3 1364 times Feb. 12, 2009 Ammler GPL v3
01:11:18 <Brokkoli> thats not realy a grf
01:11:29 <nn64> so im wondering is there a way to get the client to auto install that package above and thus play my games
01:11:45 <KenjiE20> it can be a grf, if you jam all the grf out of the zip and into the .tar
01:11:45 <Aali> the actual package can't be put on bananas
01:12:01 <Aali> only the author of a grf may put it there
01:12:15 <Rubidium> nn64: that package is a fluke... it doesn't contain any useful NewGRF except a 'link' to where the archive with NewGRFs can be found
01:13:14 <Belugas> nn64 so... it seems that you were not aware of the content. I would suggest that, as an admin, you do some research as to what you would use as grfs
01:13:22 <nn64> KenjiE20, so it is possable
01:13:41 <Belugas> make sure they are available for everyone who cares/knows how to search
01:13:42 <KenjiE20> yea, it's how I have my ottdcoop install set up
01:13:53 <Belugas> that it has some USEFULL content
01:14:04 <Belugas> and that you UNDERSTAND what that grf do
01:14:05 <KenjiE20> d/l zip from ottdcoop site -> use 7zip to copy everything into the .tar
01:14:36 <KenjiE20> but that's just so it's easier to maintain my end
01:14:49 <KenjiE20> nothing, ottd will find them all in there
01:15:08 <nn64> and allow the servers clients to down load them ?
01:15:36 <KenjiE20> it's a client only fix
01:15:42 <nn64> Well there goes that idea
01:16:04 <glx> ottdcoop is the only one allowed to distribute this pack
01:17:04 <nn64> KenjiE20, howmany people do you think have actually aquired that pack of ttds? and manually put it in
01:17:17 * Rubidium wonders whether people look at the usage statistics for their servers
01:17:39 <KenjiE20> I have absolutely no effing clue
01:17:54 <Rubidium> like there's an average of roughly 0.7 clients per server
01:18:20 <Belugas> Rubidium: i would assume a very limited bunch. maybe even only dihedral and/or brianetta
01:19:06 <KenjiE20> Rubidium, I probably would if I knew how :P
01:19:08 <nn64> well ... it would seem I will have to make a server that supports onily what bananas offers
01:19:23 <nn64> and one that supports the hole bunch
01:19:31 <Brokkoli> yes... i have reduced it to bananas-newgrfs too
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01:19:56 <Brokkoli> sadly some very good grfs are missing there..
01:20:10 <Belugas> nn64: why? openttd offered MP games with grf long before bananas has been added to trunk
01:20:19 <KenjiE20> nn64, depends who you want on
01:20:20 <Brokkoli> and noone played there ;)
01:20:29 <Belugas> i do not see why it shold rely ONLY on bananas
01:20:42 <KenjiE20> most of the older players probably already have GRF folders with most stuff in them
01:20:44 <Rubidium> Belugas: ease of use
01:20:54 <Belugas> people are so lazy today....
01:20:57 <Brokkoli> i had a newgrf server and rarely there was more than 1 player..
01:21:06 <KenjiE20> bananas is good for new players starting out
01:21:22 <Brokkoli> now with the bananas newgrfs i have up to 10 players..
01:21:50 <Brokkoli> maybe allow a klickable link per server
01:21:54 <Aali> luckily, none of this will be a problem once 0.7 comes out
01:22:03 <Brokkoli> so users can easyer find the needed grfs
01:22:17 <Rubidium> KenjiE20: don't bet on that; just ignoring the default tram GRF lots of servers don't have any NewGRFs
01:22:21 <Aali> once support for human players gets removed :)
01:22:21 <Belugas> we need to support multiple OSs
01:22:39 <Belugas> not all of them require the same functionnality for clickability
01:22:46 <Rubidium> Belugas: we support clicking on everything in game
01:23:05 <Brokkoli> yes for os'es which do not support that it could be disabled?
01:23:09 <Rubidium> just the 'feedback' to the clicking might lack functionality
01:23:31 <Belugas> and lucky for us, no object on the game is a URL
01:23:36 <Brokkoli> if the os supports -> open browser, else show a message
01:23:39 <Rubidium> do ALL windows installs have an internet browser?
01:23:54 <Belugas> oh... I knoe... just need to add a CTRL+Ctrlclick
01:24:01 <KenjiE20> Rubidium, true, but I run a bananas reduced one for a group of new players, because it's kinder on them to not have to wade through for stuff not on grfcrawler
01:24:08 <Rubidium> Brokkoli: there you're wrong
01:24:32 <Brokkoli> ok old windowses don't
01:24:51 <Rubidium> or when you appropriately mutilate it ;)
01:26:52 <Belugas> have fun, i close the shop for today
01:27:38 <Rubidium> even so, I don't care about MSIE
01:28:26 <Rubidium> MSIE users aren't quite our prime audience (or the world's browser stats are way off)
01:29:18 <Brokkoli> i wont use msie, too
01:29:57 <Brokkoli> but i use windows.. and when some program has a link, the choosen browser opens that..
01:30:59 <Brokkoli> don't know about linux.. i dont use desktops there ;)
01:31:30 <Rubidium> that's not quite defacto standardised yet
01:33:03 * Rubidium wonders what browsers work on Windows 3.x
01:34:03 <glx> ottd doesn't work there anyway ;)
01:34:09 <Rubidium> msie < 4 seems to roughly cover that
01:42:50 <Rubidium> glx: maybe they got allegro working for DOS
01:44:02 <nn64> wow The auto download is limiting
01:47:29 <nn64> well ... any how ... I fell like starting a game ... Anyone who wants a Fun challenging game come play me at """"""--NN's MAX Server"""""" Requires The Openttdcop new grf pack ... and client 0.7.0
01:50:00 <Brokkoli> i don't think its limiting?
01:51:19 <nn64> i just couldent add any OpenGRF files or the ecs one it said is supported in bananas were not supported
01:52:18 <nn64> Brokkoli, So you willing to play me in the Game with the MAX viecules choice list EVER?
01:56:54 <nn64> anyone anyone else here ?
01:57:34 <nn64> KenjiE20, ... you here .. you said you had the full graphics set ? ... come play me Plz ...
01:57:46 <Brokkoli> i have it, but no time for playing now
01:58:02 <Brokkoli> and dont want to play with to much newgrfs
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02:07:38 <edgar> I'm using ubuntu and I have the original Transport Tycoon, where I should place the TT folder that OpenTTD require to run?
02:08:32 <KenjiE20|LT> pretty sure that's in the wiki, but you'll want the tr*.grfs from data to go into /usr/games/openttd/data
02:08:43 <KenjiE20|LT> (or wherever the binary install is)
02:09:40 <glx> edgar: what version of openttd?
02:10:15 <glx> ok just put them in ~/.openttd/data
02:10:46 <glx> unless it's a multiuser system
02:11:36 <glx> and only tr*.grf and sample.cat are required
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03:18:16 <Aygar> Has the plan to rewrite the map array been abandonded?
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03:43:57 <welshdragon> crap ero exchange rate is crap
03:51:48 <glx> Aygar: map rewrite is totally dead
03:54:42 <Aygar> glx bad idea death or lack of intrest
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04:04:09 * welshdragon sooo wants to book this holiday
04:04:30 <welshdragon> but i'm afraid I might not have enough euros to enjoy myself :(
04:09:56 <thingwath> such a materialst view :)
04:25:29 <thingwath> I have no euros and I'm quite happy, now :o)
04:57:18 <MrFrans> welshdragon, that conversion seems wrong.
04:57:53 <MrFrans> this what google says. 500 British pounds = 561.979576 Euros
04:58:11 <MrFrans> or are you converting some other pound?
04:58:17 <thingwath> it could be right some years ago
04:58:47 <welshdragon> the rate i have is the latest rate
04:59:07 <MrFrans> honestly that is wrong, the pound has not fallen below the euro.
04:59:38 <welshdragon> (from yahoo finance)
04:59:47 <thingwath> oh, sure, this conversion rate was never right, sorry :)
05:01:36 <welshdragon> hmm, £500 = €520.35
05:02:08 <thingwath> depends. not if you have euros and want pounds :o)
05:03:26 <welshdragon> MrFrans: heh, seems i'm wrong ;)
05:04:22 <MrFrans> it's ok. you can still feel pride in your currency. you are still schooling the dollar and the euro. :P
05:05:12 <welshdragon> but that now means i've spent £180 on acommodation, £150 on travel costs (train + ferry), so it is still quite a cheap holiday
05:05:35 <thingwath> if you have the money :)
05:07:16 <thingwath> my last holiday cost something like 70 euros, and I think it was quite expensive :o)
05:08:06 <welshdragon> i get benefits in 2 weeks (and again in 4), and i'll have cleared my credit card by then
05:24:09 <Forked> coffee good. also. Good morning!
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08:10:18 <De_ghosty> anyone use ram disk?
08:17:16 <petern> never had a need on windows
08:17:34 <De_ghosty> how big and how much total ram?
08:18:21 <De_ghosty> u give all ur ram to disk?
08:18:57 <De_ghosty> what can i do with all that space
08:19:12 <petern> "And who knows, with technological breakthroughs in the future, maybe soon we'll see SuperDisks capable of holding more than 120MB. Maybe 250MB (like the new Zips). One can only hope."
08:19:40 <petern> no, we'll see tiny flash sticks holding 8, 16 or 32GB...
08:19:41 <De_ghosty> we can use flash drive
08:20:24 <petern> back then 128MB was a lot of memory...
08:20:26 <De_ghosty> i wish i bought alot of flash maker stock
08:20:35 <De_ghosty> and ram was still price fixed
08:20:39 * db48x has a 500gb portable usb HD
08:21:06 <Forked> my first computer didn't even have a hard drive.. and the second one came with a 40MB one.. DOS could only handle 32MB partitions
08:21:14 <db48x> Forked: yea, I remember that
08:21:26 <db48x> Forked: I had an extra 8mb partition that never really had anything in it
08:21:34 <Forked> I had my mouse drivers on it :)
08:22:55 <De_ghosty> OLD PPL!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:23:18 <De_ghosty> ur old relative to me
08:23:47 <De_ghosty> hit the turbo button!!!!!!!!
08:24:11 <db48x> actually, the turbo button usually toggled it the other way
08:24:21 <petern> down to 8 MHz, not half speed
08:24:46 <Forked> if it's called turbo I'm going to assume it speeded things up when needed
08:25:01 <petern> first DOS i used was 4, which handled 40MB drives okay
08:26:05 <De_ghosty> i never used dos :o
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08:41:20 <planetmaker> [02:15] <nn64> and allow the servers clients to down load them ? <--- you are NOT allowed to distribute the #openttdcoop newgrf pack.
08:41:46 <planetmaker> it's in violations of the terms of usage and it's in violation of the licenses of several enclosed newgrfs.
08:43:30 <planetmaker> you are, however, free to direct any person to our website to obtain the grf package.
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08:44:56 <Forked> thats so sold baby jesus saw it before he was born!1
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09:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> <Forked> if it's called turbo I'm going to assume it speeded things up when needed <- no, it was to speed the processor DOWN, because some programs relied on a fixed processor speed for timing
09:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. some games were unplayable on faster computers
09:09:53 <Forked> then the name "turbo" is misgiving .. if the button is used for clocking down the cpu :)
09:10:06 <Forked> and I remember those games.. went at 2-3x the speed. was quite challenging =p
09:10:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the turbo button turns turbo off!
09:10:26 <Forked> so by pressing the turbo button again.. you turn it on?
09:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but the default was on
09:21:12 <petern> yes, a two state switch, much like a light switch
09:21:25 <petern> you press the light switch to turn the lights on or off
09:21:34 <petern> you press the turbo button to turn turbo on or off...
09:21:50 <petern> unless you wanted to play bouncing babies
09:21:56 <Forked> still the name indicates it's a speedup rather than a step down !
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09:23:17 <SmatZ> there were games which tested speed of the CPU at start - if you started it with turbo ON and then turned it OFF, it was much easier to play them
09:23:27 <SmatZ> (for example Shooting Gallery)
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10:03:32 <planetmaker> I'm just waiting for the reply "did you maybe forget to add your attachment?" :D
10:04:11 <Forked> I'm actually tempted to rdp home just to make him a win32 build
10:05:59 <planetmaker> Forked: then go ahead and be the good guy :)
10:06:11 <DASPRiD> "gooy guy" as in "chucky"?
10:06:36 <Forked> I'm hungry and not really in a good mood(or mode?) though..
10:07:03 <DASPRiD> np, you can eat planetbaker
10:10:21 <planetmaker> planetbaker was taken when I wanted to register it.
10:11:17 <DASPRiD> planetmaker, poor dude :(
10:12:25 <planetmaker> alas. planetmaker is just as fine :)
10:12:38 <Forked> what about planettaker?
10:12:52 <planetmaker> nah... that doesn't fit :)
10:13:16 <planetmaker> rather create than just take :)
10:15:30 <dihedral> planetenscheisser :-D
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10:35:53 <DASPRiD> "The Drop Tower is a symbol of the local aerospace industry." Das war Englisch. <-- für wie dumm halten die die leute? :P
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10:51:53 <dihedral> "Toyland is not a feature, it's a bug" <- lol
10:55:51 <dihedral> that really cracks me up
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11:34:57 <Forked> I'm building the win32 now :\
11:37:50 <Forked> it wasn't audigex that wrote it.. if it is the post I think it is :)
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11:47:06 <planetmaker> dihedral: look at whom you quoted and at whom you claim you quoted
11:47:38 <dihedral> i just clicked the 'quote' button
11:47:46 <dihedral> bug in phpbb i take it :-P
11:48:37 <planetmaker> dunno then. Just telling :)
11:48:45 <dihedral> in the 'reply' view, i highlighted the part i wanted to quote and clicked 'quote'
11:49:14 <planetmaker> ? you always have to click "quote" in the correct posting
11:51:32 <planetmaker> btw, is here someone who owns a mac version of grfcodec and nforenum (working on OSX 10.4)?
11:51:59 <planetmaker> making of them is a bit tedious... I first need to make a new(er) make :O
11:52:22 <planetmaker> that worked somehow.
11:52:40 <planetmaker> seems like I got those paths correct :)
11:52:53 <planetmaker> but I only have make 3.80 and nforenum needs 3.81.
11:53:01 <planetmaker> and making of that kinda fails
11:53:21 <planetmaker> or at least make check returns two errors, so I'm not daring enough to make install :)
11:53:42 <planetmaker> I asked the gnu guys about that, but no reply so far :)
11:55:01 <DaleStan> I thought boost didn't use make. And if either nforenum or grfcodec have a make check or a make install, I didn't write them.
11:55:08 <planetmaker> DaleStan: not boost
11:55:17 <planetmaker> but I need to make nforenum and grfcodec
11:55:24 <planetmaker> and nforenum requires make 3.81
11:56:01 <planetmaker> at least it tells me that. And I'm not make guru enough to mess with the make file
11:58:22 <Forked> D:/compile/msys/home/kjetil/32bit/src/video/dedicated_v.cpp: In function `void DedicatedHandleKeyInput()':
11:58:25 <Forked> D:/compile/msys/home/kjetil/32bit/src/video/dedicated_v.cpp:224: warning: unused variable '__ct_assert__'
11:59:29 <planetmaker> doesn't matter. But it's not a good sign :)
12:00:40 <Forked> was just the Windows binaries thing peter responded to :p
12:01:14 <Rubidium> that doesn't matter; it's a compile time assert to make sure some buffer is always big enough
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12:29:31 <De_ghosty> 32bit xp is impossible to work on 1gig images
12:32:44 <De_ghosty> exactly what i said
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12:33:27 <planetmaker> hm... no, it's not nforenum, it's upx which requires it - which is a pre-requisite for nforenum. Mixed that up. Well...
12:34:13 * planetmaker is in a state of confusion :S
12:34:23 <petern> grfcodec doesn't need upx
12:34:37 <petern> or did you mean grfcodec is a prerequisite for nforenum?
12:36:33 <planetmaker> ~/ottd/grfcodec ingo$ make
12:36:34 <planetmaker> [STRIP/UPX] grfmrgc.bin
12:36:36 <planetmaker> make: upx: Command not found
12:36:37 <planetmaker> make: *** [grfmrgc.bin] Error 127
12:36:52 <petern> it's built grfcodec by then
12:37:09 <planetmaker> unfortunately a segfaulting one.
12:37:41 <Ammler> planetmaker: try only grfcodec
12:37:43 <planetmaker> I thought I first should try to get all make errors straightened :)
12:37:52 <planetmaker> Ammler: yeah... that doesn't complain
12:38:46 <Ammler> you need the other tools?
12:39:03 <planetmaker> Ammler: not necessarily
12:39:14 <planetmaker> just wanted to have them to play with it
12:39:49 <planetmaker> hehe @ Rubidium :)
12:40:16 <Ammler> aren't those tools almost obsolete now?
12:40:31 <Ammler> like converting exe2grf and such?
12:40:32 <planetmaker> are they? what shall I use instead?
12:40:46 <Ammler> just nforrenum and grfcodec
12:41:07 <planetmaker> that requires grfcodec to work in the first place
12:42:15 <Ammler> so you should not "make" all tools in grfcodec, just "make grfcodec"
12:42:30 <Ammler> (did you read 0compile.txt?)
12:44:29 <planetmaker> well. Sort of yes
12:44:37 <petern> heh, stupid content questions now :/
12:45:22 <planetmaker> Ammler: but what can I learn from that file, if I get a segfault for my grfcodec binary when using it...
12:45:41 <planetmaker> or rather no nfo output for your advanced lumbermill, but only a pcx - or is that right?
12:48:26 <planetmaker> Just looking in the wrong place. And initially (stupid, stupid!) I ran it on the tar instead of the grf
12:48:55 <planetmaker> sorry for bothering you all with a non-existing problem ;)
12:49:05 <Ammler> well, at first, I would use the source instead decode a grf ;-)
12:49:13 <planetmaker> like psychologists: good that we talked about it ;)
12:49:32 <planetmaker> Ammler: yes. I decoded it.
12:50:12 <planetmaker> But I needed something simple to test the binary on :)
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13:44:24 <batti5> can anybody help me whit grf encodeing problem
13:45:06 <batti5> Fatal Error (47): Offset 5: Invalid property 01
13:45:40 <Ammler> hehe, and all here knows your code
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14:08:53 <batti5> PCX file is not a 256 colour file! how can i make it?
14:14:39 <planetmaker> batti5: save it as one. Your graphics app should do that for youi
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14:21:06 * worldemar is happying his birthday
14:21:55 <SmatZ> congratulations worldemar
14:22:34 <MrFrans> Happy Birthday worldemar
14:22:45 <planetmaker> congratz, worldemar
14:22:51 <worldemar> petern: yep, happyeiouying
14:28:48 <planetmaker> hm... I just wonder: is it possible to have a dedicated server download missing grfs automatically, provided they're available on bananas?
14:29:00 <planetmaker> or to obtain them on a server?
14:29:57 <planetmaker> openttd --help doesn't give me any hint...
14:31:08 <glx> I don't know exactly the commands but they exist
14:31:45 <Rubidium> no; a server can't load a savegame with missing newgrfs, so there's real way to get the missing newgrfs into the commands to get the newgrfs
14:32:19 <planetmaker> say again, Rubidium ?
14:32:39 <Ammler> planetmaker: as you can't start a save, you don't have a console
14:33:01 <Rubidium> yes, I missed a "no"
14:33:06 <planetmaker> hm... a pity actually...
14:33:28 <Ammler> Rubidium: something like a parameter ""--autodownload" ?
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14:33:54 <Rubidium> Ammler: that's too complex
14:34:09 <planetmaker> in conjunction with -g <savegame> ?
14:34:25 <Ammler> hmm, so starting a plain new map
14:34:45 <Ammler> then console update all
14:35:05 <glx> but you can download them using the console before trying to load the savegame
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14:38:12 <planetmaker> glx: I can only update to the newest version. A deprecated version might not be availble then, I guess
14:40:23 <Ammler> can't you select by md5?
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14:42:10 <Ammler> and if you select all, you download also crap ;-)
14:43:29 * planetmaker thinks the wiki needs an update on that part :)
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14:44:38 * planetmaker goes adding a few lines
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14:56:03 * DASPRiD goes removing a few of planetmaker's few lines
14:56:43 * planetmaker kicks DASPRiD for starting a pointless edit war
14:58:04 <Brokkoli> openttd seems to leak some memory?
14:58:55 <Brokkoli> when i startet it was about 80 mb.. now its 300
14:59:10 <Brokkoli> without building new things
14:59:34 <Rubidium> reckon that isn't a linux build then ;)
14:59:35 <DASPRiD> 300mb is much.. but not so much :)
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15:01:08 <Sacro> unless you mean Mb or even MB
15:02:44 <Sacro> mb should be a kickable unit
15:03:20 <Rubidium> and everything related to mb should be kickable too, right?
15:08:02 *** petern was kicked by Rubidium (as per Sacro's request)
15:08:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petern
15:08:42 *** petern sets mode: +b *!*@*.KCOM.COM
15:08:54 *** petern sets mode: +b *!*Rubidium@rbijker.net
15:08:54 *** Rubidium was kicked by petern (as per my request)
15:09:14 <worldemar> kickable Rubidium >_<
15:09:25 *** petern sets mode: -b *!*Rubidium@rbijker.net
15:10:26 <Brokkoli> would be many newgrfs :)
15:10:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +e *!*Rubidium@rbijker.net
15:10:54 <worldemar> hordes of michael blunk... just like lemmings
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15:17:33 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o SmatZ
15:17:43 <Brokkoli> maybe a bug: the ordering by capacity for articulated vehicles is wrong..
15:18:32 <Brokkoli> seems like only the first part is considered?
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15:20:52 <Brokkoli> i will try the nightly
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15:23:16 <Rubidium> then make a bugreport @ bugs.openttd.org
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15:30:37 <Ammler> you download the missing grfs from bananas after loading the save, isn't that too late?
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15:52:13 <batti5> i created a grf, but its useless, what im doing wrong?
15:53:17 <batti5> when a loaded it to openttd, it applyed, but i cant find it in-game
15:53:45 <planetmaker> batti5: I propose you have a look at other, very simple but similar grfs. Like e.g. the hover bus which was recently made available.
15:53:52 <planetmaker> or DJN's MX-3000 grf.
15:54:03 <planetmaker> yours should work pretty similar then.
15:55:54 <planetmaker> decode them, look at the source and compare with yours. Or just copy it and put in your stats and pics
15:59:33 <batti5> but my stripe dont have numbers above
16:02:43 <planetmaker> or rather: so what?
16:10:06 <planetmaker> obviously you use a) less sprites than declared and b) a wrong palette. Get one of the two palettes OpenTTD / TTDP support.
16:10:53 <batti5> but what i should do with it?
16:11:02 <planetmaker> that said I really urge you: get the mx3000. Decode it. Replace a single image. Re-encode it, see whether it works. Change single stats. re-eoncode it, see whether it works. Get it working step by step
16:11:18 <planetmaker> Other than that: I've no idea. I never did any newgrf things.
16:12:41 <Ammler> nforenum has no errors/warnings?
16:15:00 <batti5> the le5100.pcx is not accepted by encoder
16:16:05 <petern> apply the correct palette
16:16:22 <planetmaker> well. Open in your graphics programme and save it properly? I guess the advice doesn't change, Regardless how many times you ask that question.
16:17:42 <batti5> and how to do it with gimp?
16:17:46 <Rubidium> planetmaker: at a given threshold the advice becomes an eery silence
16:17:58 <Ammler> if you use GIMP, you could download a palette template from forums, afaik.
16:18:12 <planetmaker> Rubidium: yes. :) I know.
16:18:26 <planetmaker> That statement was about the "border indicator" ;)
16:18:34 <batti5> and? how to importit to gimp?
16:19:17 <Ammler> there is no howto there?
16:20:30 <batti5> i open mystripe in png in gime, and now?
16:23:21 <planetmaker> [17:13] <petern> stripe -> sprite... <--- thank you actually. :)
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16:25:27 <batti5> Loading sprites/le5100.pcx
16:25:28 <batti5> Error: Unrecognized palette, aborting.
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16:27:52 <batti5> this way, it isent going to be any romanian train set.
16:30:21 <batti5> but a pallete is in png?
16:31:27 <Ammler> where did you find the palette?
16:32:41 <batti5> whare can i find the real one?
16:37:57 <batti5> whare can i find a tt palette?
16:39:51 <Aali> wow, thats a new one, someone trying to apply a patch using the in-game patch command :D
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16:42:39 <batti5> whare can i find a tt palette?
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16:48:09 <Brokkoli> maybe extract it from a pcx
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16:50:38 <planetmaker> yeah. from a working grf :)
16:52:32 <Ammler> batti5: you get more help on tt-forums as there aren't many grf authors around here... (working with GIMP)
16:54:36 *** petern sets mode: -b *!*@*.KCOM.COM
16:54:59 <batti5> don`t get it i convert the palette but its still 32bit
16:55:34 <planetmaker> sure you need to convert the thing to 256 colours.
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17:28:08 <Sacro> if he where here right now
17:30:01 <Mastor> ppl, can some one help me, where i can download all grf files for oTTD in 1 archive file?
17:32:40 <Belugas> Mastor, there are no packs that gather all the grf files produced by the whole community
17:32:45 <Belugas> it's not a centralized process
17:33:44 <Ammler> Mastor: but you can select all grfs and download them in one go...
17:34:25 <dihedral> Ammler, that are not ALL grf's!!!
17:34:34 <dihedral> those are merely all uploaded to bananas
17:34:56 <dihedral> if he wants _all_ newGRFs, he will have a LOT of searching and downloading to do :-P
17:35:14 <Belugas> whhooooo... that's a lot of work....
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17:35:44 <Belugas> much more than 1, for sure
17:36:08 <Belugas> and i believe much more than the amount of bananas's content too...
17:36:18 <dihedral> and much more than OpenTTD can load
17:36:57 <Belugas> if OpenTTD gives you an error, JUST DARE FILLING UP A BUG REPORT!
17:38:35 <Sacro> you need to mirror bananas, grfcrawler
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17:38:50 <Sacro> watch out for eis_os as his tunnels GRF is illegal to use with !ttdpatch
17:42:43 <Belugas> empiric data? hard fact number? cristal ball gazing? approximation after smoking in the boys room?
17:43:01 <De_ghosty> is there signal in them?
17:43:50 <Belugas> of course, there are signals in them. what you think
17:44:06 <De_ghosty> it could be bendable tunnels :o
17:44:38 <De_ghosty> or tunnels that can change level undergound :o
17:44:39 <Belugas> well... ther are bent and illuminated with signals. I though everybody knew
17:45:14 <dihedral> why de people try to place signals in tunnels themselves?
17:45:35 <dihedral> would it not be an approach to have a fixed distance for 'signals' in tunnels?
17:45:52 <dihedral> that just work like the fake signals in depots
17:46:04 <dihedral> like set in your advanced settings
17:46:35 <De_ghosty> but what if i need to change it to make it denser?
17:46:36 <glx> "dynamic" signal distance depending on train length ?
17:46:55 <dihedral> or a tunnel options window :-P
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17:47:26 <Belugas> ctrl-clicking the tunnel entrance!
17:47:45 <PierreW> there are signals in tunnels?
17:47:57 <dihedral> sure there are, just not in the tunnels in OpenTTD
17:48:21 * dihedral extends his ignore list
17:48:34 <De_ghosty> arg hard drives are so slow
17:48:42 <De_ghosty> it's already raid 0
17:48:52 <Ammler> maybe the hard disk signal is red
17:48:53 <dihedral> yeah - raid 0 is soooo good! :-P
17:49:03 <De_ghosty> until one of em failz
17:49:54 <De_ghosty> you know how we can hack signal in tunnel?
17:50:33 <PierreW> just do 2 tile tunnels, 1 tile track, 2 tile tunnel, 1 tile track [ ... ] then you have each 3rd tile a signal and alot of tunnels
17:50:59 <De_ghosty> and u can't build over that
17:51:08 <Belugas> petern: Swallow asks for re-opening the FS#2685. I think it should only be done when a real grf is built. But he might be right, if i understand his logic correctly. It is your call to deny of accept the reopening
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18:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> <dihedral> would it not be an approach to have a fixed distance for 'signals' in tunnels? <- the initial problem is to get trains to stop at any point that is in the tunnel. that is where custom bridgeheads failed
18:11:20 <dihedral> that is good to know
18:11:28 <Eddi|zuHause> through the whole wormhole journey, the train stays on the same tile (the wormhole exit), and the signal check only works when changing tiles
18:11:55 <dihedral> how then is determined when the train exists?
18:12:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the train is on the exit tile, with a huge offset
18:12:17 <dihedral> exists the wormhole that is
18:12:27 <Eddi|zuHause> when the offset hits 0, the exit is reached
18:12:37 <dihedral> extending the signal check to offsets? :-P
18:13:07 <Eddi|zuHause> my suggestion would be to make the "vehicleEnterTile" functions z-aware
18:13:17 <Belugas> undo the wormhole code
18:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and introduce "wormhole" tiles
18:15:40 <Ammler> if you introduce signals in tunnels, we will also lose another "game" part.
18:16:14 * Belugas cries the lost game part
18:16:38 <Ammler> same with distant-join and station walk.
18:16:41 <Belugas> there are already signals on the tunnel
18:16:46 <Belugas> just that nobody seems them
18:16:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15591 /trunk/src/lang/ (17 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:16:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-27 18:16:01
18:16:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 6 changed by Ludslad (6)
18:16:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed by arnaullv (1)
18:16:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 4 fixed by ThomasA (4)
18:16:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 fixed by habell (4)
18:16:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 fixed by jpx_ (1)
18:17:58 <dihedral> Ammler, what would you lose?
18:18:16 <Ammler> building hubs would be quite easy with those tunnels
18:18:30 <dihedral> and what would you lose?
18:18:51 <Belugas> can't yu read dihedral?
18:18:56 <Belugas> seems so logic to me!
18:19:10 <dihedral> does it really? or are you just being ironic?
18:19:17 <Belugas> don't smile. i'm highly ironic
18:19:45 <dihedral> Ammler, we know you are not, just i fail to see which part you lose
18:19:47 * Belugas thinks dihedral starts to know the whale a bit
18:19:51 <dihedral> i dont get the loss part
18:20:34 <dihedral> uh... uh... now i need to find a new spy :-D
18:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> he is doing what all people do, trying to protect his work he spent on designing complex junctions, where tunnels create the problem of long signal distances
18:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> which would become (partly) obsolete
18:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but you could give the same argument for PBS
18:21:32 <dihedral> funny - i recall Ammler being very much after pbs
18:21:56 <dihedral> then signals in tunnels will also
18:22:03 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you can't replace hubs with pbs.
18:22:16 <Belugas> still... naaaa all of them... Crosby, Still, nash AND Young
18:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "Gleich drei Dinge auf einmal? Das geht nun wirklich nicht!"
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18:24:11 <dihedral> Ammler: what exactly would be your fear if there were signals in tunnels?
18:24:25 <Ammler> [19:18] <Belugas> can't yu read dihedral?
18:25:00 <dihedral> Ammler, the magic word here is _exactly_ - give me an example! something that i might understand, other than your 'lose a game part'
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18:25:08 <Ammler> but well, there might be other things you can looking for then.
18:25:13 <planetmaker> Ammler: definitely: having signals in tunnels doesn't hurt. But mentioning the reasons why it would be cool, is a quietable offence here :D
18:25:19 <Belugas> [13:20] <@Belugas> don't smile. i'm highly ironic
18:25:47 <dihedral> i did not want to turn it into a - quote Belugas fight :-P
18:25:57 <Ammler> planetmaker: that is the point, it doesn't hurg
18:26:19 <Ammler> it will make building networks much easier
18:26:59 <dihedral> not in the dog-way curious...
18:27:10 * dihedral will not go around sniffing peoples rear ends :-P
18:27:41 * planetmaker is glad that this anal issue is now solved
18:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "do not abbreviate 'analytic' after the 'l'", my maths teacher said :p
18:30:56 <planetmaker> irrespective of features this game will never be too easy nor too difficult
18:31:03 <planetmaker> it will just be different
18:31:27 <dihedral> "different" is the word my mother uses for something she does not like :-D
18:32:17 <planetmaker> I usually use it in its original sense :)
18:32:58 <Ammler> dihedral: I am different ;-)
18:33:29 <Belugas> [13:28] <Ammler> that is fine, indeed. <-- now... i am puzzled... It is fine to loose game part???
18:34:03 <Ammler> I tried to be ironic, too :P
18:34:11 <Belugas> different is oftenly used to point to gays in here...
18:34:28 <Belugas> Ammler, my friend... you need practice!
18:34:38 <Ammler> Belugas: THAT doesn't matter in this channel
18:34:42 <dihedral> Ammler, if you want us to understand what you dont like, being ironic might not be all too helpful right now
18:35:17 <Ammler> dihedral: never said, I do not like it, did I?
18:35:39 <Ammler> I just told we lose a game part
18:36:26 <Belugas> well... that, in my book, is directly connected to a bad/sad/unwanted event...
18:36:48 <planetmaker> well... I read it as such. "building hubs would be quite easy with those tunnels
18:36:50 <planetmaker> [19:18] <Ammler> and boring." - but I might interpret that wrongly :)
18:36:52 <Ammler> Belugas: sometimes you need to pay for new (mostly) better things
18:36:53 <dihedral> i still dont get it! i mean - where is the loss if junctions for a change dont need doubled tunnels no more?
18:37:17 <Ammler> as it was with station walk
18:37:18 <planetmaker> dih: noobs can build a hub withouth knowing about signal distance :P
18:37:37 <Belugas> Ammler: agreed. this is why the distance factor has been introduced to noise airport
18:37:44 <dihedral> seriously - you think noobs can build junctions as exist in openttdcoop just because there are signals in tunnels?
18:37:48 <Belugas> give on one hand, take on the other
18:38:08 <dihedral> Belugas, just dont cut off the entire arm :-D
18:38:39 <planetmaker> dihedral: not quite. But same with stations and path signals: now noobs - who know path signals - can build somewhat decent functions; something they couldn't before
18:39:14 <energetic> (cities are rendered in black text, and these two icons enable you to filter on towns/cities only
18:39:17 <dihedral> makes Ammler appear as less of a junction-builder?
18:39:24 <dihedral> he feels he loses his 'status'?
18:40:29 <Ammler> wow, I have a "status" :-o
18:41:16 <dihedral> anyway - the 'noob' argument is pretty poor imo (and i doubt it was meant seriously, but i could be wrong there) :-P
18:41:53 <Ammler> you can take a junction from wiki.openttd.org and use in coop games then.
18:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> <Belugas> Ammler: agreed. this is why the distance factor has been introduced to noise airport <- i was thinking about this, what about making the reduction non-linear. e.g. 10 tiles for the first reduction, 5 tiles for the second reduction, 3 tiles for the third reduction, 2 tiles for the fourth, etc.
18:42:13 <Belugas> well... noobs ask for funny stuff... "where Can I download all grfs" :P
18:42:17 <dihedral> oh - so you would fear openttdcoop would be less special, Ammler ?
18:42:53 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, anything is possible. If you come up with a decent design, and SmatZ agrees to it, why not ;)
18:43:06 <Ammler> well, the hubs is 1. thing what coop makes
18:43:25 <dihedral> if that is your impression about openttdcoop, then that is pretty sad :-P
18:43:58 <dihedral> is openttdcoop not more about a community - working together, completing bigger maps, having a structure in building?
18:44:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the other problem i had with airports was in maps with few big cities and lots of small villages. the city authority needs a way to overrule the neighbouring villages' noise concerns
18:44:15 <dihedral> is that not more important than having the biggest hub?
18:44:20 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't know how to properly solve that
18:44:20 <dihedral> size does not matter you know!
18:44:31 <Sacro> dihedral: only people with small penii say that
18:44:42 <De_ghosty> just make a bigger city have more radius influence
18:44:44 <dihedral> Sacro, in this case: with small hubs ;-)
18:45:02 <Ammler> dihedral: I was speaking about the coop games
18:45:10 <Ammler> not about openttdcoop as community
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18:45:49 <dihedral> so you just like bragging with the huge junctions in the games ;)
18:45:51 <Eddi|zuHause> <Sacro> dihedral: only people with small penii say that <- if you have "penii", you have worse problems than size :p
18:45:54 <Ammler> just go to the archive and check which parts are mostly as scren
18:46:15 <De_ghosty> I wants signal in tunnels :o
18:46:39 <De_ghosty> i was suggesting you guys do it :D
18:46:46 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: my underwear fits like a glove
18:46:56 <dihedral> or, follow some train tracks into some tunnel and wait for the next train
18:47:13 <Eddi|zuHause> where is this "someone" guy when you need him?
18:47:27 <dihedral> anybody aint here either
18:47:36 <De_ghosty> i nominate dihedral
18:48:16 <dihedral> just spare us the details
18:48:33 <De_ghosty> i have to let you know every little part
18:48:37 <Eddi|zuHause> De_ghosty: above i wrote exactly what needs to be done
18:48:52 <De_ghosty> yea i saw wormhole :)
18:49:21 <Eddi|zuHause> "wormhole" is just short for "bridge or tunnel"
18:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> (both are exactly the same for vehicle movement purposes)
18:50:44 <Belugas> [13:47] <De_ghosty> I wants signal in tunnels :o <--- it's already there, you just do not see them
18:51:00 <De_ghosty> the train don't see em either
18:51:15 <Belugas> that is another matter. you jsut asked for signals :P
18:51:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "if there is a tree in the wood, and nobody sees it, is the cat dead?"
18:53:27 <Belugas> my cat never roam in any wood
18:54:00 <dihedral> Belugas, your cat is too huge to fit past the trees :-P
18:56:43 <frosch123> dihedral: no, the wood is always covered by masses of snow
18:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the answer is: you can't see the wood because of all the trees!
18:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> or: 42, depending on your personal faith
19:09:46 * planetmaker hands Belugas a few warm, sunny days.
19:09:50 <frosch123> next time "ssaatpanmaa" is enough :)
19:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> he said something?
19:12:03 <Eddi|zuHause> right... i set him on ignore right after his first line in this channel...
19:37:09 <energetic> *checks channel.... hey, this is ottd
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20:12:44 * dihedral has the impression some certain devs will be contacted by Sir koZ again!!
20:12:51 <dihedral> people like Belugas maybe!
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20:24:30 <dihedral> this must be the best post ever wrt patching the source
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20:26:30 <Ammler> hehe, someone already posted just the screen.
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20:27:23 <dihedral> i think it's just awsome
20:27:40 <dihedral> i'd nearly go as far as saying that made my day
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20:40:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15592 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix: Refit-info in purchase list did only check the first articulated part.
20:59:59 <petern> good job that stuff is cached ;)
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21:08:42 <planetmaker> I think it was our red gem who mentioned it first :)
21:09:31 <petern> hmm, dunno, i thought it was something to do with sorting :o
21:10:22 <frosch123> no, that task is too much work for me :)
21:15:56 <apo_> or starting another company to transfer money to your own company <--- it's possible to transfer money?
21:16:20 <Yexo> apo_: yes, but only if it's enabled
21:16:27 <planetmaker> hm... the "Station name" of deleted waypoints doesn't get gray like deleted station names do. Is that intended?
21:16:35 <Yexo> on most servers it's disabled because of cheating
21:17:41 <apo_> economy.give_money <--- this?
21:18:16 <Eddi|zuHause> on the client list
21:18:24 <Yexo> then hold your mouse on one of the clients
21:18:43 <Yexo> planetmaker: are you sure? The waypoint name gets gray here when I delete the waypoint
21:18:46 <dihedral> is that not documented in the wiki?
21:18:51 * apo_ will try it when he gets another player <_<
21:18:57 <apo_> dihedral: I didn't find it anywhere.
21:19:03 * apo_ searched for transfer money =P
21:19:16 <dihedral> apo: if i find in 30 seconds, what do i get
21:19:31 <planetmaker> playing on the PS. Just tested :)
21:19:42 * Yexo just tested on 15590 in sp
21:19:44 <apo_> dihedral: 1000k if you find my server in 30s as well :P
21:20:06 <dihedral> having an issue setting up a server eh?
21:20:11 <planetmaker> Yexo: the background gets gray. But NOT the text
21:20:21 * apo_ ? Nah. The server's running.
21:20:24 <planetmaker> For stations the text gets gray
21:20:26 <Yexo> planetmaker: ah, I can confirm that :)
21:20:45 <dihedral> apo_, then you dont need help with it :-P
21:20:47 <planetmaker> I never play with backgrounds for signs :)
21:21:00 <planetmaker> those are always transparent :)
21:22:45 <Yexo> planetmaker: on the other hand, waypoint names are always white,and not in the company color as station names
21:23:02 <planetmaker> hm... yeah. I wonder why :)
21:23:16 <OsteHovel> How is Openttd's compile system made?
21:23:26 <planetmaker> OTOH: deleted station names have no company colour either. Just gray.
21:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it was written with an editor, OsteHovel.
21:23:44 <OsteHovel> are it made using standar autoconf, automake ? or by hand?
21:23:46 <planetmaker> There the text gets the colour of the background when transparency changes
21:23:59 <planetmaker> The same could be done for waypoints, I guess...
21:24:08 <Eddi|zuHause> OsteHovel: by hand
21:24:16 <Yexo> hmm, it's also possible to click on already deleted waypoints and change their name
21:24:47 <planetmaker> but that doesn't matter, I guess
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21:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... are the opengfx maglev tracks wider than the original?
22:26:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15593 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Change: the background of the the waypoint sign is now in the company color.
22:28:32 <Yexo> the text is still always white though
22:29:20 <planetmaker> hm... then I won't see the change :)
22:29:41 * frosch123 likes the different colour
22:30:08 <frosch123> planetmaker: use white company colour :p
22:30:49 <planetmaker> frosch123: uh... what I noted is that the waypoint colour with transparent background doesnt' change between existing and deleted ones
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22:30:59 <planetmaker> the colour of the text itself
22:31:15 <planetmaker> e.g. I don't see whether it's deleted or not.
22:31:49 <planetmaker> of course because I play with transparent signs :)
22:32:08 <Yexo> planetmaker: that's because the color of the text (with invisible signs) is the color of the background (without invisible signs)
22:32:19 <Yexo> waypoints overrule that, by always using white text
22:33:01 <Yexo> planetmaker: you already play with client-side patches, right?
22:33:55 <planetmaker> he... well, yes, I do have some I like :)
22:35:08 <planetmaker> :) thank you, Yexo
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22:59:39 <Tim> Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!
23:00:38 <Tim> I just suceeded in drawing my first train sprite and coding it into an actually working grf :)
23:01:03 <frosch123> you are lucky that batti is not around
23:01:27 <Tim> Wait... the guy with the aeroplanes?
23:01:38 <dihedral> batti has been long on my ignore list
23:01:58 <Tim> That's like everywhere in life, you only remember the names of the bad kids :D
23:02:38 <Tim> Damn... the other views will get a lot more complicated...
23:02:44 <Tim> Front view is kinda easy :D
23:27:35 <arex\> My trains are too old. Can I autoreplace them with the same type?
23:28:07 <Yexo> yes, enable autoreplace in the advanced settings window
23:55:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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