IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-02-17
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:01 <KingJ> Well, just tried it myself. It appears not
00:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> unless something magical happens in the next few weeks, i kinda doubt that it will be in 0.7
00:04:33 <KingJ> That's a shame, best feature yet in OTTD I think, but I understand there are some bugs, not that it's affected my current game with it at all
00:05:35 <dihedral> and the guy who develope(s|d) it magically vanished
00:09:43 <Rubidium> why does 'best feature [...] OpenTTD' always make me laugh?
00:11:41 <KingJ> But at least I got you a laugh out of it
00:12:23 <dihedral> users tend to have that effect :-P
00:18:09 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
00:31:51 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttd
00:33:17 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
00:57:11 *** Brokkoli has joined #openttd
01:31:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15506 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt settings.cpp town_gui.cpp window_type.h): -Codechange: rename ScenarioEditorTownGenerationWindow to FoundTownWindow
01:31:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15507 /trunk/src/lang/ (42 files in 2 dirs): -Update (r15506): rename strings in other languages too
01:36:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15497 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r15027): when trains crashed, AIEvent was created only for one train
01:37:47 <Rubidium> ah, CIA's mailserver is back online
01:39:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15498 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
01:39:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-16 18:45:15
01:39:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 changed by arnaullv (2)
01:39:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 3 fixed by Excel20 (3)
01:39:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 7 fixed by WhiteRabbit (7)
01:39:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 3 fixed by planetmaker (2), ralph (1)
01:39:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changed by alyr (1)
01:41:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15499 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix (r15340): the default town layout was changed
01:45:29 <welshdragon> n00b question time:
01:46:05 <welshdragon> how do i merge companies from a saved game (saved from a multiplayer?)
01:46:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15500 /trunk/src/ (saveload/order_sl.cpp settings.cpp): -Fix (r12648): pre-0.5 OTTD stored new_nonstop and full_load_any in a different way, savegame conversion wasn't working for them
01:46:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15501 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Document: the changes made over the last months
01:47:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15502 /tags/0.7.0-beta1/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Release 0.7.0-beta1. Many new features, small and big. Happy testing!
01:47:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15503 /tags/0.7.0-beta1/src/3rdparty/: -Fix: svn:externals didn't do what I wanted it to do, even though it is documented to do what I wanted it to do. Lets hope this one works as I want it to.
01:48:55 * welshdragon searches the wiki
01:50:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15504 /tags/0.7.0-beta1/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: today is Friday 13th, right?
01:51:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15505 /trunk/src/ (town.h town_cmd.cpp town_gui.cpp): -Codechange: pass name of new town as parameter to CMD_BUILD_TOWN
01:51:45 * welshdragon wanted to merge the companies
01:56:18 <Rubidium> yeah, the wiki might contain information
01:57:34 *** flowOver has joined #openttd
02:03:01 <welshdragon> Rubidium: wiki doesn;t have anything :'(
02:03:40 <Aali> actually, the wiki has lots of things
02:04:31 <welshdragon> well i'm not searching properly
02:05:58 *** welterde has joined #openttd
02:07:36 <Brokkoli> is the content server offline?
02:08:09 <Brokkoli> i donloaded 0.7 beta and cannot connect
02:09:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15508 /trunk/src/ (core/endian_func.hpp core/endian_type.hpp misc/dbg_helpers.h): -Fix: three header files had incorrect 'anti-multiple-inclusion' header
02:09:51 <Rubidium> Brokkoli: seems to have crashed
02:09:57 <Rubidium> but it's back online
02:55:09 <Roujin> wonder if there'll be lots of bug reports about the AIs that have not been updated since the API changes
02:59:11 <Roujin> maybe lots of people download 0.7.0 beta1 now and download all the stuff from BaNaNaS and then complain that most of the AIs aren't working ^^
03:12:36 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd
03:14:35 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
03:14:38 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
03:42:57 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd
05:23:47 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd
05:23:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc
06:23:10 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
06:28:48 *** De_Ghost has joined #openttd
06:55:40 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
06:55:44 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
07:36:43 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
07:36:47 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
07:56:07 *** Yeggstry has joined #openttd
07:59:32 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggs-work
08:07:53 <planetmaker> how's your sea-side towns going? :)
08:11:44 *** Timitry has joined #openttd
08:11:47 <db48x> yexo schooled me in the intricate arts of the openttd coding style
08:12:17 <db48x> plus suggested an existing function that I could avoid rewriting
08:12:23 <db48x> which seemed like a plus
08:14:36 <Timitry> The standard Town-Road-Layout was changed from "Better Roads" back to "Original"? Why is that?
08:14:47 <Timitry> Or did i misread that?
08:20:49 *** Scuanor has joined #openttd
08:30:27 <db48x> Timitry: yea, looks like it
08:37:59 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
08:43:47 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
08:45:49 <petern> probably done something wrong
08:46:14 <db48x> or 10.3.9 isn't supported any more (although if that's the case then it may have been inadvertant)
08:47:41 <dihedral> 10.3.9 afaik is supported... kinda
08:47:56 <dihedral> at least the universal binary is supposed to work on 10.3.9 - 10.5.x
08:48:30 <dihedral> petern, looks more like an 10.3.9 issue, rather than 'layer 8'
08:49:10 <db48x> I think I shall accquire a hamburger
08:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it's been 100 years since a mister McDonald from New Hampshire introduced the hamburger
08:54:51 <dihedral> heh - those lines are ancient :-P
08:55:11 <dihedral> @openttd commit 11498
08:55:11 <DorpsGek> dihedral: Commit by egladil :: r11498 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2007-11-23 02:44:05 UTC)
08:55:12 <DorpsGek> dihedral: -Add [FS#1411]: [OSX] Added support for using Quartz instead of Quickdraw in windowed mode on OS X 10.4 and higher. Based on a patch by blackis.
08:57:42 <dihedral> so since 0.6.0-beta2 nobody played openttd on os x 10.3.9
08:58:00 <dihedral> that is well worth supporting then :-P
08:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody played prebuilt nightly on 10.3.9
08:58:48 <dihedral> and no stables for 1.5 years
08:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but remember the statement of Bjarni, the first mac release contained hardcoded path, so it could only ever work on his system, but none of the hundred downloaders ever complained that it did not work
09:08:11 <petern> dihedral: is it just a concidence that that is exactly 4000 revisions ago from his 'report'?
09:08:31 <petern> p.s. i don't care about OS X at all
09:13:04 <dihedral> of course you would not
09:13:10 <dihedral> would not have expected nothing else
09:13:21 <db48x> Eddi|zuHause: so how was that bug discovered?
09:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> db48x: i have no idea
09:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that was before my time, and i have never had interest in mac
09:14:16 <db48x> macs are pretty hard to care about
09:15:01 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they are as good a religion as any linux distribution ;)
09:15:20 <db48x> or text editor, I suppose
09:16:09 <db48x> I'm in more of a text-editor religion than an os religion
09:19:51 <dihedral> petern, there are thankfully enough people who do kinda care about os x support ;-)
09:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause> am i dreaming things or did mister-my-computer-is-so-shit-it-crashes-when-playing-youtube-videos say that he overclocked his computer?
09:28:03 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:31:38 <dihedral> was that not the kid who said he cannot compile and that someone should abso-fucking-quickly make him a win32 bin?
09:31:54 <dihedral> you have a link for the thread
09:39:21 <dihedral> his sig is agressive :-P
09:45:14 <dihedral> that'll make him mad :-D
09:52:18 *** einKarl has joined #openttd
09:55:28 *** Singaporekid has joined #openttd
10:00:41 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
10:01:09 *** einKarl has joined #openttd
10:03:51 *** einKarl has joined #openttd
10:08:11 <Tefad> that sounds about right dihedral
10:11:08 <SmatZ> ahhhh I have NekoMaster in my "Foes" list, now the thread makes much more sense :-)
10:11:55 *** Skiddles has joined #openttd
10:13:05 <dihedral> thank you Skiddles - you made me want .... Skittles
10:14:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
10:15:32 <Skiddles> Those pictures? They are a terrible ripoff of the packaging of skittles.
10:15:34 <Scuanor> grins can someone please compute how many "sprites" and grfs can be referenced with 32 bit?
10:15:39 <Eddi|zuHause> don't you know skittles?
10:16:05 <murr4y> hmm are they like m&m's
10:16:10 <Skiddles> They are small bite-sized candies which may contain traces of Singaporekids, it seems.
10:16:13 <Forked> so remind me.. how come that polite person calling himself nekomaster is still allowed on the forum? :p
10:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> sprite limit is like 4 milliards
10:16:43 <Scuanor> forked, well, he doesnt call himself nekRomaster, aye? ;o)
10:17:27 <Forked> refering to the X threads that has been pasted in here that he is active in :)
10:18:45 <dihedral> <Forked> so remind me.. how come that polite person calling himself nekomaster is still allowed on the forum? :p <-- ask orudge
10:18:49 <Scuanor> Forked: i "just" see it... and agree with you totally
10:19:09 <Forked> I ment to say "enlighten me" rather than "remind me" :-)
10:19:29 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
10:19:30 <Forked> dihedral: I try not to bug any admin anywhere :\
10:19:34 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, 'milliards' ?
10:19:48 <Forked> since I know how annoying users can be :D
10:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that's how the whole world calls them
10:20:44 <dihedral> Forked, in this case it's not about users annoying admins but admins making sure other users are not annoyed by one user
10:20:57 <Forked> "use the ignore function" :)
10:21:46 <Scuanor> actually, its onyl used in france and germany widely
10:23:02 <Scuanor> Forked, sure, that would work, but only after you "have been" annoyed/abused already
10:23:33 <Forked> also seeing how I do not pay for a service, how can I be demanding anything at all? (like annoying people like myself being removed)
10:25:57 <Scuanor> if it is a service, there would no need to demand it, as it is freely ( in this case ) given. service as in "serve" not "be on alert, waiting to be ordered/demanded to act" ?
10:26:50 <Scuanor> you dont go down to the receptionist at the ritz and ask/demand/beg them to clean up your room either, do you? ;o)
10:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "demanding" != "asking kindly"
10:31:34 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, it's billion ;-)
10:31:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no, a billion is a million million
10:32:08 <dihedral> (de) miliarde = (en) billion
10:32:36 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, that's why i want to teach you the word ;)
10:32:58 <Gekz> your european numbers are no match for mainstream superior numbers
10:32:59 <Rubidium> for anything above a million either use SI prefixes or x.y * 10**z
10:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> .. the bird bird bird... :p
10:33:07 <Scuanor> you cant however ask kindly for a billion dollars, thats just demanding ;o)
10:35:38 * Rubidium wonders whether Obama is demanding of asking kindly for that trillion dollars
10:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you just violated your own rule there ;)
10:37:59 <Rubidium> true, but I don't care whether it's the "European" or "American" trillion; both are enormous anyways
10:41:35 <Rubidium> Roujin: that's why set the last working version to something before beta1
10:41:56 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
10:42:20 <Rubidium> Roujin: that you the patches could be the precursor of two things
10:43:41 <Rubidium> that's to keep the rumours alive ;)
10:44:16 <Roujin> you like to confuse people, don't you? :P
10:45:08 <dihedral> Roujin, not people, users :-D
10:45:53 <Roujin> would you prefer if I removed my post which is merely stating the obvious? :P
10:46:32 <petern> Eddi|zuHause: it's "considerably" less than 4,000,000,000
10:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> 640k ought to be enough for anyone
10:47:17 <petern> Eddi|zuHause: it is limited to 24 bits as the extra bits are used as flags
10:47:38 <petern> although only 4 bits currently, so it could be 28 bits wide.
10:47:56 <petern> a bit better than 16 thousand
10:49:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it's only 3 orders of magnitude ;)
10:53:43 *** smeding has joined #openttd
11:02:05 *** mortal` has joined #openttd
11:05:24 *** Roujin_ has joined #openttd
11:06:15 *** energetic has left #openttd
11:10:25 *** energetic has joined #openttd
11:13:09 <kasper> im looking for the original Transport Tycoon deluxe maps, Are they available on OpenTTD?
11:13:48 <SmatZ> maps? use the old map generater when generating maps
11:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause> they are on your TTD cd
11:14:11 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: universal reply ;)
11:14:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i presume he means scenarios ;)
11:14:37 <kasper> yeah i mean the scenario's :). im using the abandon ware version of TTD, no scenario's included
11:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no such thing as abandonware
11:14:58 <kasper> i have the cd somewhere... in a logitech case i got with a win95 pc :P.. but where..
11:15:20 <kasper> well, they loose their rights after an X amount of years
11:15:34 <SmatZ> yeah, maybe after 50? :)
11:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> 70 years after the death of the author
11:17:20 <Eddi|zuHause> which excludes practically every computer program ever written
11:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause> considering that computers themselves are hardly 70 years old
11:20:50 <kasper> we just celebrated the big 50 :)
11:21:06 <kasper> but can we download the old scenario;s somewhere?
11:21:36 <Eddi|zuHause> they might be out there, but "we" do not know where
11:21:55 <kasper> ah, well.. then I know enough :)
11:29:27 <KingJ> I've still got my TTD disk, good days
11:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the dos version is better than the win version anyway
11:36:45 <Roujin_> what's better about it?
11:37:22 <KingJ> I remember when our win 95 computer broke, and was replaced with a win2k one that didn't work with TTD, I could no longer play pretty much the only game I played, until I found TTDP that was
11:42:54 *** DephNet[Paul] has joined #openttd
11:49:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
11:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i played TTO most of the time, i didn't even know of TTD before i found TTDP
11:50:38 <petern> dos ttd misses some sprites
11:53:37 <Eddi|zuHause> there was something about wrong truck pictures, was that specific to one version?
12:03:55 <KingJ> See, my solution to that is magic bulldozer
12:04:33 <KingJ> I even put up warning signs saying "If you build here, you might be demolished in the future", but they just ignored me so they have to face the consequences
12:07:30 <Eddi|zuHause> "our strength is our individuality, you cannot assimilate that"
12:12:10 *** Roujin__ has joined #openttd
12:16:02 <dihedral> "There's nothing wrong with asking the community a few questions, but perhaps you're overdoing it here!" <- like that one :-P
12:25:19 *** Roujin__ is now known as Roujin
12:41:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15509 /trunk/src/window_gui.h: -Codechange: move definition of some Window methods to class definition
13:05:32 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
13:18:26 *** Roujin_ has joined #openttd
13:20:57 *** sigmund has joined #openttd
13:24:34 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
13:27:03 *** smallfly has joined #openttd
13:28:45 <smallfly> what do you think of a setting like "max landscape changes per month"? only the server admin can adjust this value. this way, its not possible that anybody joins a server and flattens all the area
13:29:55 <dihedral> this has been a problem for a very long time smallfly
13:30:13 <smallfly> where is the problem?
13:30:15 <dihedral> i remember running 0.5 servers and having players do that
13:30:23 <dihedral> it's a layer 8 issue
13:30:39 <smallfly> ahh ... *nothing-understood*
13:30:58 <smallfly> so its not quite easy to implement, correct?
13:36:09 <smallfly> the problem maybe the user, not the system, but the system can avoid the problem by limiting the landscaping
13:38:25 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
13:40:38 <glx> yeah "block" legit players because there are dumb stupid ones
13:40:58 <petern> MSVC doesn't like r15505
13:44:33 <Rubidium> and then fix cygwin ;)
13:44:56 <SmatZ> glx: if you do non-primitive changes, maybe it would be worth to change order of variables in that struct...
13:45:04 <SmatZ> so it is 4 bytes smaller ;)
13:45:25 <SmatZ> I kept this order so constructor can be done this way (with "empty body")
13:46:03 <SmatZ> glx: byte / int arithmetics?
13:46:26 <glx> not 'this' in initialiser
13:47:21 <glx> removing "this->" is enough
13:48:33 <glx> but if we want to keep this, I can fill the body :)
13:49:09 <petern> this "iff" obsession pisses me off
13:49:46 <glx> hehe, I prefer explicit terms too
13:50:30 <SmatZ> I prefer iff, it's exact and short
13:50:44 <petern> comments are for humans, not mathematicians
13:51:21 <SmatZ> it's better to initialised variables the way it was before - doesn't removing "this" help?
13:52:05 <glx> removing 'this' works, until someone readds it ;)
13:52:11 <Rubidium> but programming is a special kind of applied mathematics
13:52:48 <petern> i prefer just if, because, you know, that's how it's used in english
13:53:44 <SmatZ> the english used in programming isn't common english
13:54:41 <petern> "true if i went to the pub" means "true if i went to the pub, false if i didn't", not "true if i went to the pub, but might also just be true anyway"
13:56:11 <Rubidium> lets replace "true" with "drunk" and "false" with "not drunk"
13:57:00 <petern> that's two conditions, we've only got *one*
13:57:04 <petern> true/false is not one of the conditions
13:57:12 <Forked> if I do this I get in trouble
13:59:24 *** NukeBuster|laptop has joined #openttd
13:59:30 <SmatZ> "true iff cond." can be replaced by "true if cond., false otherwise" - but it's longer
13:59:35 <SmatZ> and it's better to be exact
13:59:41 <petern> false otherwise is implicit
13:59:56 <SmatZ> because there are cases when content of a variable is undefined
14:00:22 <petern> how does that affect boolean return values?
14:01:12 <SmatZ> for me, "iff" says I can be 'sure' about the return value
14:01:49 <petern> for me, "iff" says you pressed "f" too many times
14:02:06 <Rubidium> it implies that there will be a return value, whereas "true if cond" doesn't imply there's a return value for (some) false cases
14:02:12 <glx> if you are unsure about a boolean value then the condition is incorrect
14:02:15 <SmatZ> like, a sat solver ... if it returns true, it has a solution, if it returns false, I don't know if it has or doesn't
14:02:31 <SmatZ> but then I can have another solver that returns true if and only if a solution exists
14:04:00 *** TinoDid has joined #openttd
14:04:44 <SmatZ> [14:49:14] <petern> this "iff" obsession pisses me off <== you aren't very polite
14:13:57 <petern> ror 0.36 has some great stuff in it
14:14:45 <Belugas> KingJ, thanks for impression on RDP, it worked quite well
14:14:50 <Belugas> and VPN is a breeze too
14:14:56 <Belugas> once yuou know where to look ;)
14:15:47 <glx> <@petern> ror 0.36 has some great stuff in it <-- I like the new gui
14:16:11 <glx> but cancel and the closing cross are just cosmetic stuff ;)
14:19:57 * Belugas might give it a try very soon
14:20:58 <KingJ> Glad to hear it worked Belugas
14:21:08 <KingJ> I really need to restore grub so I can boot my linux install again
14:22:07 <Belugas> last time i had trouble with grub, i prefered to re-install from scratch
14:22:20 <glx> petern: but it seems kenworth mirrors are "broken"
14:22:25 <Belugas> but you remind me i shall find the way to do a backup
14:23:26 <KingJ> Last time I had to do this, it wasn't difficult, I just had to boot a live CD and run some command
14:28:06 * Belugas will search tonigh these commands
14:36:37 <NukeBuster|laptop> KingJ: Isn't the only thing you have to do to restore grub "grub-install" or "/sbin/grub-install"?
14:43:01 <KingJ> I remember typing in some grub commands
14:43:44 <KingJ> That's what I followed last time
14:48:52 <Sacro> yeah, i've done it that way
14:51:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
15:08:46 <DorpsGek> Sacro: rortom was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 13 hours, 51 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <rortom> nite
15:08:59 <Sacro> sigh, he's got ?use_mirror=mesh
15:09:08 <Sacro> could be worse, could be switch
15:12:46 <Belugas> could be even worse, could be none
15:31:59 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
15:33:39 <TrueBrain> how is you going? :p
15:38:57 <Belugas> frrrrrrr frrrrrr frrrrrr
15:40:47 * Belugas was doing a cat... not a dog!
15:40:55 <Belugas> since when do dogs furss????
15:42:14 <Belugas> my "kitty" is a purr machine
15:42:45 <TrueBrain> haha, we don't want to know :p
15:42:48 <TrueBrain> really .. we don't :)
15:50:44 *** OsteHovel^EEE has joined #openttd
15:58:28 <TrueBrain> db48x: hi to you too
15:59:42 <db48x> I just know my wonderful patch has been checked in overnight, specifically as a surprise for me
16:01:02 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: what's wrong with rabbits? Their meat is quite lean
16:01:17 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
16:01:25 <TrueBrain> so dead rabbits are good rabbits :p
16:07:47 <db48x> I think I woke up earlier than I should have
16:10:22 * Belugas checks to upgrade his repos
16:13:42 <db48x> Belugas, TrueBrain: do you guys know if there's anything else I need to do before that patch can be checked in?
16:14:18 *** Mortomes has joined #openttd
16:14:58 <db48x> ah, bribery. a time-honored tradition
16:15:42 <Rubidium> db48x: a well written patch and a developer that is interested in it
16:15:44 <Belugas> 1) ask if we are interested, 2) wonder if the new place of the serach awater function is correclty located, 3) wonder if the comments are still valid, 4) verify over and over if it would not break i any way 5) wait until someone has interest enough to commit it
16:16:01 <dihedral> Rubidium, was just gonna say something along those lines :-P
16:16:35 <db48x> are any of you guys interested? it makes boats better
16:16:37 <Rubidium> oh, and not being annoying helps too
16:16:58 <SmatZ> 6) be nice to all devs :-p
16:17:13 <db48x> Rubidium: thanks, I'll make a particular note of that ;)
16:17:16 <dihedral> db48x, you have posted it on bugs.openttd.org, and the devs are aware of your work - perhaps you might want to wait a little for them to find the time to look at it, and comment
16:17:44 <dihedral> and dont be annoyed if they dont think it is something they want to include
16:17:51 <TrueBrain> 7) bribe any developer (doesn't really help, but it is always nice :p)
16:17:53 <dihedral> just be open to either a yes or a no
16:18:20 <db48x> dihedral: heh, I've been around long enough to be able to manage that
16:18:34 <dihedral> being around long enough has nothing to do with that
16:18:57 <dihedral> there is a guy in the forums (first and last letter of his nick are also S Z)
16:19:07 <db48x> I've had patches refused enough times that I know it happens
16:19:17 <dihedral> he has huge issues with understanding any rejection wrt his patches / ideas
16:19:19 <db48x> (obviously not for openttd, since I'm new here)
16:19:33 <dihedral> and it's not SmatZ i am talking about ;-)
16:20:06 <Belugas> it's not SmatZ, big time... SmatZ rimes with Smart. the other one rimes with Psycho!
16:20:28 <TrueBrain> Belugas: good point
16:20:59 <TrueBrain> Sacro: ever managed to get that VM online?
16:21:10 <dihedral> Sacro, well done for making a google-able string
16:21:28 * TrueBrain gives Sacro a bit of memory-loss
16:21:34 <dihedral> the Vindows Manager :-P
16:21:49 <Sacro> errm, yes, i belive it was online
16:21:58 <db48x> as for testing, I've generated hundreds of maps in various configurations, and none of them were ever broken
16:21:59 *** TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen
16:22:13 <dihedral> db48x, just be patient
16:22:15 <TrueBrain> Sacro: as in: did it boot? As I can't get passed the boot :(
16:22:25 <Sacro> TrueBrain: you need a patched KVM install
16:22:37 * TrueBrain makes db48x a bit hotter (insert url of Jessica Alba here)
16:22:40 <Belugas> the idea of the feature is not bad, db48x. Honestly. From my point of view anyway...
16:22:50 <TrueBrain> Sacro: no, my question was very specific limited to VirtualBox, we talked about that :)
16:22:59 <Belugas> i can't totally judge of the efficiency of the code though
16:23:05 <Sacro> i need to try VBox again
16:23:07 <dihedral> and 'extensive testing' is something every patch creator thinks he/she has done, yet there often enough is some kind of situation they did not think of / test
16:23:10 <db48x> Belugas: it's inefficient
16:23:10 <Rubidium> db48x: that's something that has been told many many times and many times that was not the case
16:23:34 <TrueBrain> there is no test than the real world test :)
16:23:42 <TinoDidriksen> Don't you have a regression test suite by now?
16:23:47 <dihedral> Rubidium, i beat you to it this time :-P
16:24:10 <TrueBrain> TinoDidriksen: yeah, that covers all problems .. the past and the future ... lol :p
16:24:15 <db48x> Belugas: it's essentially O(n^3)
16:24:26 <dihedral> db48x, ask openttdcoop, perhaps they are interested enough to host a few games on their dev server, however - dont annoy them
16:24:35 <dihedral> ask them friendly, dont bug them
16:24:40 <Sacro> i've done 3n^4 code before
16:25:19 <dihedral> sure it's a good idea.... it came from me
16:25:30 <TrueBrain> Sacro: and I did O(n^n) .. your point? :p
16:25:55 <TrueBrain> *insert random comment here*
16:26:15 <Rubidium> db48x: did you know that your patch breaks town alignment in case of 2x2 and 3x3 grids?
16:27:08 <TrueBrain> bye bye intensively tested :p
16:27:14 <db48x> I suspected that might be important to maintain
16:27:56 <TrueBrain> some girl living next door has the most annoying laugh I know .... :s Can I tell her to leave, or is that rude? :p
16:30:27 <Rubidium> though there might be other solutions
16:31:38 <TrueBrain> duct-tape her mouth?
16:31:44 <TrueBrain> put a brick in her mouth?
16:31:46 <dihedral> no - that would not be enough
16:31:54 <TinoDidriksen> Just make sure her mouth is too busy to talk.
16:32:07 <dihedral> you can still make sounds!!!!
16:33:23 * TrueBrain slaps Rubidium with a linux manual
16:33:52 <dihedral> since when can linux manuals laugh?
16:34:04 <Rubidium> oh dear, TrueBrain's starting to use imaginary things
16:34:14 <TrueBrain> I believe someone (with the name of dihedral) needs glasses
16:34:15 <db48x> Rubidium: so, I had tested my patch with all the town layout options, and never noticed anything amiss. What happens to the towns when they are not located on the grid?
16:34:15 <dihedral> i am surprised he needs one
16:34:22 <dihedral> actually - that does make me laugh :-D
16:35:27 <TrueBrain> and do you know what makes me laugh?
16:35:32 <Rubidium> db48x: towns will build roads through eachother
16:36:01 <TrueBrain> I wonder if dihedral can guess
16:36:50 <TrueBrain> @kick dihedral no silly, this of course!
16:36:51 *** dihedral was kicked by DorpsGek (no silly, this of course!)
16:36:58 *** dihedral has joined #openttd
16:37:25 <dihedral> i could have guessed that one
16:37:32 <Rubidium> that's the so called happykicking
16:37:35 <db48x> Rubidium: I guess I haven't played games to completion on every layout setting :)
16:37:39 <TrueBrain> and you should have guessed it ;)
16:37:46 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the only one I know :p
16:37:56 <db48x> Rubidium: thanks for pointing it out, it's easy to fix
16:38:23 <dihedral> TrueBrain, i dont believe you - you know other kicks
16:38:37 <dihedral> esp when someone like yorki-proki is here
16:42:02 <TrueBrain> dihedral: still the same kind of kicks
16:42:06 <TrueBrain> I don't really know any others ... :)
16:42:47 <dihedral> TrueBrain, take a vacuum cleaner, turn it on to full power, and stick the end to her nose or mouth
16:42:52 <dihedral> that'll stop her laugh
16:43:25 <TrueBrain> yeah, closing my door helps too
16:43:29 <TrueBrain> but tnx for the tip
16:43:45 <dihedral> + you'd get to see a very funny face, and huge eyes
16:45:09 <Belugas> hooo... and if she's nasty, she might ask to put it somewhere else. And the door will be closed pretty fast too
16:45:48 <TrueBrain> even more, as on a scale of 0 to 10, I will give her a -15 for prettiness ....
16:46:17 <dihedral> Belugas, you are married - leave your dirty thoughts at home please :-D
16:46:27 <TrueBrain> oh well, dinner time :) Bye all :)
16:46:31 *** TrueBrain has left #openttd
16:49:07 <Belugas> well... does not apply to me... i've got my own fantasms, which are not to be discussed ;)
16:55:29 <dihedral> Belugas, at least i thank you for the last part of that line :-P
17:05:14 <db48x> Rubidium: thanks, I've fixed it
17:05:25 <db48x> is there anything else you can think of?
17:11:10 <db48x> now that I think about it, I suppose it is lunch time
17:11:38 <planetmaker> enjoy you dinner :)
17:13:05 * planetmaker is looking forward to Sushi which I'll have for dinner :)
17:13:21 <planetmaker> but two hours to go...
17:19:02 *** xahodo is now known as xahodo|afk
17:27:28 <db48x> I'm not very fond of sushi, but whatever floats your boat :)
17:29:20 <db48x> yes, the numbers show the distance
17:30:13 <db48x> the idea is to pick a spot that is sufficiently far from the coast that it will have some room to grow, while not putting the town so far from the coast that your docks can't reach
17:34:40 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
17:39:46 *** OsteHovel^EEE has joined #openttd
17:46:15 *** Swallow has joined #openttd
17:51:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15510 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:51:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-17 17:50:34
17:51:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 22 fixed by tifached (22)
17:51:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 20 fixed by joeprusa (19), miris2009 (1)
17:51:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 81 changed by WhiteRabbit (81)
17:51:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changed by alyr (1)
17:51:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 3 fixed by darkttd (3)
17:55:34 *** xahodo|afk is now known as xahodo
17:59:31 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
18:05:12 *** Hirundo is now known as Swallow
18:11:32 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
18:16:22 <dihedral> no no no no no! planetmaker! seriously!
18:16:28 * dihedral slaps planetmaker's hand
18:16:38 <dihedral> bad word... very bad word! you naughty boy
18:17:25 <dihedral> i am not Sir Belugas
18:17:41 <planetmaker> :D Ah, that word :) The dreaded "r" - word ;)
18:18:17 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
18:18:27 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
18:18:29 <dihedral> yeah - the forums should be modded to star that word out, just like f***
18:18:37 <planetmaker> well. But it's the few places where it doesn't hurt.
18:18:45 <Elukka> you know what i think is silly
18:18:51 <Elukka> when people write f***
18:18:54 <Elukka> everyone knows what it means
18:18:55 <planetmaker> Maybe I should have written "looks better", though
18:19:46 <dihedral> E****a what's your point?
18:20:43 <Elukka> that there is no point in f***
18:21:23 <planetmaker> without we wouldn't be here :P
18:21:30 <Rubidium> **** *** **** ** ******
18:21:45 <dihedral> i cannot make out the last word in that one
18:22:31 *** tkjacobsen has joined #openttd
18:24:14 <planetmaker> evolution is. inevitable :)
18:25:29 <Elukka> yeah, you could kill everything
18:25:33 <Elukka> in which case it would not happen :P
18:25:34 <planetmaker> care to elaborate on how, given ressources and space are limited?
18:26:14 <Elukka> its fun to watch them go over the carrying capacity
18:26:21 <Elukka> then most die and only the best survive
18:26:36 <dihedral> according to science, bumble bees cannot even fly
18:26:52 <dihedral> they are totally out of proportion
18:26:52 <planetmaker> long proven wrong, dihedral
18:27:10 <Elukka> them flying is sufficient scientific proof that they in fact can
18:27:11 <planetmaker> it just needs understanding of turbulence
18:28:08 <dihedral> anyway - i do not believe in evolution ;-)
18:28:12 <planetmaker> I'm still waiting for a reason to support 'no' :)
18:28:15 <dihedral> and now i need to head out :)
18:28:17 <Elukka> personally, i dont believe in gravity
18:28:57 <dihedral> personally i believe in the bible, etc. etc. - what you think about that is none of mine! ;-)
18:29:07 <planetmaker> but gravity's a hardless bitch ;)
18:29:17 <Elukka> point is, evolution and gravity both happen, whether you believe in them or not
18:29:20 <planetmaker> dihedral: the bible doesn't contradict sience and evolution :)
18:29:29 <dihedral> esp in the evenings when gravity has an affect on your eyelids :-P
18:29:34 <planetmaker> besides what Elukka sais...
18:30:12 <dihedral> Elukka, same argument for the existence of God - however, most people dont believe in his existance
18:30:47 <Belugas> the book falls on your toes
18:31:02 <Elukka> the difference is that there is indisputable proof for gravity and evolution
18:31:33 <dihedral> Elukka, none the less - if i dont want to believe in it, it does not mean it does not exists - it only makes it easier to 'believe' in it
18:32:02 <Elukka> quick question: do you understand how evolution works?
18:32:12 <dihedral> if a girl tells you, she loves you - you want proof, or you trust and believe her?
18:32:12 <planetmaker> Scientific statements can be verfied by observation. Both gravity and evolution are found to take place. Believe doesn't need that proof.
18:32:42 <planetmaker> dihedral: but to say "I believe in it _not_ existing" on proof of the opposit - that's stupid.
18:32:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
18:33:10 <el_en> can't remember what it is anymore!
18:33:15 <Elukka> evolution and gravity are both theories based on observed facts
18:33:25 <DorpsGek> el_en: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 4 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Bjarni> hi Wolf01
18:33:46 <Belugas> agreed: arguments against evolution are mostly based on "It's not on the Bible"
18:33:55 <dihedral> Bjarni, just in case you have not picked up on this - you have been missed a huge bit
18:34:09 <Bjarni> last time you claimed not to remember me. Looks like you guys got a memory upgrade :)
18:34:24 <Sacro> Bjarni: i'm now a paid up apple user :D
18:34:46 * Bjarni takes a round and greets everybody
18:34:55 <dihedral> ok - i will rephrase: i do not believe in 'evolution' being the sole part of the creation of this and other planets, nor what is / is not upon them
18:35:08 <Elukka> evolution has nothing to do with planets
18:35:12 <dihedral> and / or around them
18:35:16 <Elukka> it has everything to do with life, though
18:35:20 <Bjarni> some creationistic bigot ended up here???
18:35:35 <Elukka> i suggest you read what evolution really is and how it works
18:35:37 <planetmaker> Bjarni: it's a well know character here...
18:35:45 <Elukka> it's kinda impossible to say it does not happen if you know how and why it works
18:36:05 <Sacro> Bjarni: i'm using a macbook these days
18:36:11 <dihedral> Elukka, i know what evolution is
18:36:41 <planetmaker> what happened to yours, Bjarni ?
18:36:49 <dihedral> Bjarni, there are some fun bugs ;-)
18:37:10 * planetmaker has some code which Bjarni might help me with
18:37:21 <Belugas> see, he's eluding the question :)
18:37:37 <Elukka> i've never seen anyone who understands evolution say it doesnt happen
18:38:54 <dihedral> i dont agree with it to a certain depth
18:39:26 <dihedral> i.e. cross species: no
18:39:47 <Elukka> species are a classification made up by humans
18:39:52 <Bjarni> <planetmaker> what happened to yours, Bjarni ? <-- I never had a MacBook
18:39:55 <Elukka> when beings are different enough we call them a different species
18:40:03 <Bjarni> I have a PowerBook though
18:40:18 <dihedral> Elukka, that is still a part i do not agree with ;-)
18:40:27 <Bjarni> but somehow 100 MHz isn't as impressive today as it was in 1996 :~(
18:40:34 <Elukka> what exactly dont you agree with?
18:40:51 <dihedral> i just stated what i dont agree with!
18:41:01 <Belugas> but you did not said why
18:41:02 <Elukka> fish have not evolved into birds
18:41:24 <Elukka> well, depends on what you call a fish, i guess...
18:42:00 <Bjarni> I have heard about flying fish
18:42:02 <Elukka> many people seem to think a species is a more or less permanent type of animal that can then quickly evolve into another more or less permanent species
18:42:04 <Belugas> unless he means that we do not descend from primal apes?
18:42:05 <Elukka> if that makes any sense
18:42:14 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
18:43:32 <Elukka> really, the basics of evolution are simple
18:43:43 <Bjarni> There is one thing I really don't understand when we talk about evolution and that is how can people reject it?
18:44:09 <petern> an unbeliever of evolution
18:44:24 <Elukka> it is the same as saying "i dont believe in gravity"
18:44:26 <petern> evolution doesn't need belief, it just is
18:44:42 <Prof_Frink> Elukka: Gravity is a myth.
18:44:48 <Bjarni> but somebody in here talks against evolution
18:44:54 <Prof_Frink> This planet just sucks.
18:45:04 <planetmaker> [19:39] <Bjarni> <planetmaker> what happened to yours, Bjarni ? <-- I never had a MacBook <--- oh :S
18:45:04 <Bjarni> and he is sitting over there ---> (points to the client list)
18:45:28 <Elukka> nowadays, we can actually see the mechanisms that drive evolution
18:45:31 <frosch123> el_en: "hat der sie noch alle - vollidiot, ey"
18:45:34 <Elukka> which is only further proof
18:46:01 *** OsteHovel^EEE has joined #openttd
18:46:10 <dihedral> i talk against evolution in the broad theory that, e.g. from fish to frog to bird thingy (and i do know a bunch of people who believe that)
18:46:25 <Bjarni> planetmaker: what did I do?
18:46:47 <Belugas> dihedral, since when believing in something makes it valid?
18:46:48 <planetmaker> [19:45] <Bjarni> and he is sitting over there ---> (points to the client list) <-- I guess I got this comment wrong :)
18:47:02 <planetmaker> putting it into the wrong context :)
18:47:02 <Elukka> dihedral, your belief that evolution does not happen is not based on rational proof
18:47:29 <planetmaker> anyway, got2go. Dinner. CU later.
18:47:38 <Belugas> "and God created the world in six days"
18:47:39 <Bjarni> planetmaker: it's about evolution and I didn't think of you when I wrote it :P
18:47:54 <Elukka> how do you think evolution works?
18:48:00 <dihedral> Elukka, i have no issue with the thought of evolution taking place to a certain extent
18:48:06 <Belugas> fuck... i wonder who created the galaxies...
18:48:09 <Elukka> how do you think evolution works?
18:48:09 <Prof_Frink> Elukka: Chuck Norris.
18:48:09 *** Prof_Frink was kicked by DorpsGek (Prof_Frink)
18:48:15 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
18:48:53 <dihedral> and why do you have an issue with what i believe or do not believe?
18:49:02 <Rubidium> I wonder how god was created...
18:49:06 <Elukka> you didnt answer my question
18:49:12 <Bjarni> <Elukka> how do you think evolution works? <-- now he will give you a link to the movie called evolution where Will Smith tries to stop it (or whatever it was about)
18:49:27 <Elukka> no, i think he'll just keep avoiding the question :P
18:49:28 <dihedral> Elukka, i dont feel the need to engage
18:49:38 <Belugas> because we are all pain in the buts, and not only about forums users :D
18:49:59 <Bjarni> dihedral: it's an issue because it reveals a lack of understanding of how the world works
18:50:08 * petern watches his thingys trying to reproduce in genepool
18:50:22 <Elukka> maybe you'll understand how it works afterwards
18:50:32 <thingwath> "world works"? that's a best joke I heard today :/
18:51:06 <Bjarni> thingwath: bad day, I guess
18:51:06 <Prof_Frink> Hold on, isn't discussing realism banned? Does that include realism of reality?
18:51:33 <Bjarni> and now I remember why I stopped opening IRC
18:51:52 <Bjarni> it always ends up taking time talking about bullshit >.<
18:51:54 <Elukka> in my opinion, gravity does not happen because it is not included in the holy game of ttd
18:52:02 <Belugas> [13:29] <dihedral> anyway - i do not believe in evolution ;-) <--- but you did venture on that ground ;)
18:52:09 <dihedral> if that were the only thing you stopped, it would not be as bad
18:52:36 <dihedral> Belugas, you think i will write down each little detail of my beliefes?
18:52:47 <Elukka> how about we talk again once he has read that wikipedia article on evolution?
18:53:03 *** Prof_Frink was kicked by Belugas (Atchoooom!!! oooops.. sorry.... r world allergy)
18:53:18 <dihedral> how about you, kiddo, read the bible, i read the that document, and then we continue the discussion
18:53:34 <Elukka> how about you read the qur'an?
18:53:47 <petern> a lovely piece of fiction
18:53:48 <Belugas> i did read the bible!!! Can I speal?
18:53:56 <thingwath> (and I will not read the backlog, great.)
18:53:56 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
18:53:57 <petern> full of sex and violence
18:53:58 <db48x> reversing the flow of traffic without killing anyone is exciting
18:54:00 <dihedral> i know you did Belugas
18:54:15 <petern> oh, and full of bigotry too
18:54:17 <Elukka> it's pointless to talk of evolution when you are willingly ignorant
18:54:31 <petern> never come out to people on the internet as a bible follower
18:54:33 <Belugas> tut tut tut... that's ruder...
18:54:41 <petern> because you will forever be seen as a stupid idiot
18:54:46 <Bjarni> <nirv> i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section
18:54:54 <dihedral> Elukka, it does not make sense to try to base an argument on a not fully detailed status of my beliefe
18:55:53 <Elukka> you detailed it enough to say you dont believe in the theory of evolution
18:56:12 <dihedral> sorry, but i do not feel like either you understand where i come from, not to what extent i accept / do not accept the / some thoughts / theories of evolution as has been expressed in one way or another
18:56:34 <Elukka> it doesnt make sense to cherrypick from established facts the ones you like
18:56:44 <Elukka> i still say read that article i linked
18:57:13 <Belugas> dihedral : would you rather said we (as human) are coming from primal apes who themselves are coming from smaller mammals who are descending from even more primitive dinosaurus (etc...) up unti the small in-sea-cells ?
18:57:27 <dihedral> if you want to believe that you have me / my beliefes figured, i will not hinder you
18:57:30 <Belugas> or do you believe we just appeared as a sudden on hearth?
18:57:46 <Prof_Frink> We're on fire? Aaaaaaaaaaargh!
18:57:48 <Bjarni> dihedral: you didn't answer my question. Can you explain how it can be that you don't believe in evolution?
18:58:24 <Prof_Frink> It's always been too windy.
18:58:27 <Elukka> honestly, i dont see the point in arguing with him about evolution as long as he is unwilling to learn and understand it
18:58:49 <Alberth> wasn't there a lovely episode about believing in Star trek voyager?
18:58:54 <dihedral> Elukka, i dont mind what you consider worthy or unworthy
18:59:02 <Belugas> ok... so it would imply that dihedral believes in evolution for all the other species but humanity
18:59:07 <dihedral> what counts to me, is what is written in that book i doubt you like
18:59:13 <petern> aww, the topic doesn't say "no idiots" still :(
18:59:17 <Elukka> it's the same thing as me arguing the theory of relativity with someone who fully understands it
18:59:19 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
18:59:21 <Elukka> there would be no point
18:59:44 <Belugas> dihedral : so... we do are descendants of primal apes?
18:59:48 <petern> so, earth... centre of the universe?
18:59:51 <Bjarni> dihedral: how old is the planet that you live on?
19:00:12 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttd
19:00:52 * Elukka braces for arguments based on feeling instead of evidence
19:05:20 <OsteHovel^EEE> is it posible to turn off the display of monney and the bar at the bottom of the screen?
19:05:35 <dihedral> Elukka, where would be the point of faith if it were based on evidence?
19:05:43 <SmatZ> OsteHovel^EEE: without editing sources, there isn't (as far as I remember) - why whould you want to do so?
19:06:06 <petern> there is not point in faith
19:06:07 <OsteHovel^EEE> becouse im gonna display monney and date on another display(Character display)
19:06:15 <OsteHovel^EEE> (80x4 LCD display)
19:06:26 <dihedral> if that then should be the case, i have not lost anything ;-)
19:06:55 <Elukka> why do you refuse to learn about evolution?
19:07:03 <SmatZ> OsteHovel^EEE: have a look at toolbar_gui.cpp, the widget is called xxx_RIGHT (I think)
19:07:34 <dihedral> Elukka, why do you assume i would not be familiar with evolution
19:07:36 *** const86 has joined #openttd
19:07:53 <Elukka> your refusal of parts of the theory shows a lack of understanding
19:07:54 <SmatZ> OsteHovel^EEE: sorry, statusbar_gui.cpp :-x
19:07:54 <dihedral> Belugas here is familiar with the bible, yet he is not a believer / christian / whatever you want to call it
19:08:00 <OsteHovel^EEE> Ok i will check
19:08:07 <dihedral> that to me does not say he has a lack of understanding
19:08:22 <dihedral> he infact knows a huge lump of stuff
19:08:25 <Elukka> the bible does not contain indisputable scientific proof of anything
19:08:29 <dihedral> and it's not ignorance
19:08:36 <frosch123> obviously the theory of evolution is wrong, else something as stupid as the human race would not have survived that long
19:08:40 <Elukka> ok then, you say you understand it
19:09:44 <Elukka> again, please tell me how evolution works?
19:09:44 <dihedral> and stop trying to 'prove' anyhow that i dont
19:09:44 <Elukka> you refuse to show that you do
19:10:03 <Elukka> you say you understand evolution, yet you refuse to demonstrate that you do
19:10:31 <Belugas> to me, the Bible shold be a moral guide, at least Christ's teaching. The rest are merely a collection of legends
19:11:18 <Belugas> but taking the book as a whole to believe in is not sane, since that book was not originally a whole. It was forged over by by the believes of men.
19:11:23 <dihedral> Elukka, if everything to you is based on proof - then i am sorry, but i am no where required to 'prove' anything ;-)
19:11:29 <Rubidium> evolution: recursive memory corruption
19:11:32 <SmatZ> frosch123: you never know how far we are from our end :-x I hope at least several hundreds years... (but how?)
19:11:43 <Belugas> therefor, believeing in creationism is taking the words out of their contexts and so on
19:12:21 <Elukka> then there's no reason for me to believe that you understand evolution
19:12:29 <dihedral> if you feel i must prove something to you, i feel i am not obliged to
19:12:39 <Elukka> well, then we cant argue about it
19:12:42 <Alberth> Elukka: why are you not happy to let people believe what they do?
19:13:13 <Belugas> [14:13] <@Rubidium> evolution: recursive memory corruption <-- excellent :D
19:13:49 <Elukka> why should i not question beliefs?
19:13:59 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
19:14:24 <frosch123> Elukka: everyone should question his own believes, not those of others
19:14:54 <Elukka> why should you not question the beliefs of others?
19:14:57 <OsteHovel^EEE> i just commented out the onPaint() commands and it no longer displays
19:15:04 * Rubidium wonders whether Elukka will question all my beliefs
19:15:08 <dihedral> Elukka, why do you try to question what you dont understand :-P
19:15:16 <Elukka> rubidium, only if you want to start arguing about them :P
19:15:29 <SmatZ> OsteHovel^EEE: yeah, somment out that /* Draw company money */ code
19:15:32 <dihedral> because if you did understand what i believe, then you would not try to argue with me
19:15:38 <dihedral> and just let it be :-P
19:15:45 <Elukka> we've gone over this already
19:16:06 * Rubidium believes Elukka is not nuts ;)
19:16:14 <dihedral> but as for you it seems everything is based on a concept of 'proof'
19:16:15 <Alberth> Elukka: maybe you should question your own belief that you should bother other people with your beliefs
19:16:25 <Rubidium> lets discuss that belief ;)
19:16:46 <Elukka> dihedral, an argument is not very convincing if no proof of a position is provided
19:17:06 <thingwath> he doesn't want to convince you, it seems
19:18:43 * Rubidium still waits for Elukka to 'disprove' my belief ;)
19:18:56 <Elukka> but i want to play WiC
19:19:44 <Rubidium> you just don't want to argue about my belief
19:20:07 <Alberth> even though you did not provide any proof!
19:20:52 <dihedral> Elukka, as i already stated, i am not gonna try to convince you of anything, nor do i think i need to prove anything to you
19:21:04 <Elukka> as i already stated, then let's stop arguing
19:21:25 <Elukka> now, i will go blow stuff up
19:22:15 <Elukka> alternatively, capitalist pigdogs!
19:23:00 <thingwath> hm, I'm not sure what of these two I am tonight
19:24:11 <thingwath> (why world in conflict and not world in crisis?)
19:24:47 <Elukka> because conflict sounds nicer
19:24:50 <SmatZ> [20:23:06] <thingwath> hm, I'm not sure what of these two I am tonight <== wanted to say something similar :o)
19:25:03 <thingwath> in english, pf, maybe
19:25:12 <Elukka> WiC is the only RTS in ages where i got into the multiplayer aspect...
19:25:15 <Elukka> last was homeworld and hw2
19:26:02 <thingwath> I don't multiplayer since I have found that freeciv servers are full of evil Germans.
19:26:26 <SmatZ> hehe @ " evil Germans."
19:26:44 <Elukka> i once got on a wic server and the american team was full of russians
19:26:47 <SmatZ> what's so evil about them?
19:26:57 <thingwath> they are speaking german :)
19:27:19 <thingwath> and they always win!
19:28:11 <thingwath> and I don't know about their evil plots against me, since I can't speak german well enough!
19:30:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that is entirely your own problem :p
19:30:24 <thingwath> if I have learned german, I could have conquered the world! :-/
19:36:46 <Darkvater> oh btw, I have good news
19:37:04 <Darkvater> I have started writing code to cache the grf-scan results
19:37:25 <Darkvater> which I had to momentarily pause because I have to backup lotsa stuff for a reinstall...
19:37:39 <Darkvater> during which I started openttd from my usb drive..and behold
19:37:44 <Darkvater> game starts in <1 second
19:37:57 * Darkvater 's harddrive is officially very very very very fragmented
19:38:23 <SmatZ> Darkvater: impressive - how many GRF do you habe? (I am afraid the most serious problem for me is HDD performance...)
19:38:26 <Darkvater> so i stopped development
19:39:20 <Darkvater> so let's say 270 or something
19:39:59 <Rubidium> Darkvater: and defrag can't remove the fragmentation?
19:40:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:40:28 <glx> Rubidium: not for long :)
19:40:36 *** NukeBuster|laptop has left #openttd
19:40:41 *** NukeBuster|laptop has joined #openttd
19:40:43 <Darkvater> XP crashes when I defrag
19:40:48 <SmatZ> I got >8000 (most of them are duplicates from full openttdcoop checkout)
19:41:14 <Darkvater> reason #1715232 to reinstall
19:41:36 <frosch123> [20:43] <SmatZ> I got >8000 (most of them are duplicates from full openttdcoop checkout) <- lol, why?
19:43:00 <Rubidium> and the text at the top is wrong too
19:43:51 <Rubidium> 8 players in MP isn't quite right anymore (if it was ever right)
19:43:51 <SmatZ> frosch123: sorry, it is much less... ~1300 ... most of them are readmes and similiar files :)
19:44:04 <SmatZ> frosch123: to have older versions of GRFs :)
19:44:33 <Rubidium> SmatZ: fdupes -r -d .
19:45:09 <Rubidium> or fdupes -r -d -N . if you don't want to answer questions
19:45:09 <SmatZ> Rubidium: when I delete them, next svn up will recover them
19:45:21 <Rubidium> then don't use a SVN checkout
19:45:36 <frosch123> hehe, I exported the grfpack :p
19:45:54 <Ammler> frosch123: how many have you then?
19:45:55 * Rubidium downloads the tar.bz2s from the website and unbz2s them
19:45:59 <Zuu> Is there a know issue with resizing the window in multiplayer on linux builds?
19:46:08 <frosch123> Ammler: 421 without duplicates
19:46:16 <Rubidium> and then he only installs the upgrade .tar.bz2s
19:46:29 <Zuu> A player on a game I played had this issue, and he was moderately interested into reporting it. So i figured I'd check if it is a known issue.
19:46:49 <Ammler> there are around 190 unique newgrfs in the pack
19:48:02 <glx> Zuu: what is the issue exactly? connection lost due to too long time without reply ?
19:48:12 <Rubidium> Zuu: no, although if he uses Allegro as video backend you can't stretch the window
19:48:27 <Rubidium> in his sikrit hideout
19:48:31 <glx> somewhere on this server :)
19:48:35 * frosch123 is always happy to read those dutch articles, the german forum feels always wetter afterwards...
19:48:50 <Rubidium> listening to his neighbour laughing
19:49:06 <Zuu> glx: He said that it crashed. But didn't got much detail from him. But he said that he would look into it when he had more time.
19:49:35 <glx> better wait for more details ;)
19:49:39 <Zuu> He has left the game now, so can't get more details. openSuse was the linux dist he used.
19:50:13 <glx> but I guess we'll get reports if it happens for someone else
19:53:52 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
20:01:26 *** StarLionIsaac has joined #openttd
20:33:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15511 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Fix [FS#2641] (r15190): Generating a map with the original map generator with freeform edges on resulted in an assert.
20:50:48 <Aali> why would anyone use the old mapgen? :/
20:51:47 <Yexo> I have absolutely no idea
20:52:00 <Yexo> that's probably the reason the bug wasn't found before :p
20:52:13 <Rubidium> because it's more no-build-on-slope compatible than perlin
20:52:36 <Elukka> well, how many openttd players speak esperanto? :P
20:52:49 <Yexo> so why would anyone disable build-on-slopes?
20:53:09 <Rubidium> and to make the game harder
20:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: apparently at least the translator
20:55:07 <Rubidium> it's not like the esperanto translation is an effort for the developers
20:56:59 <frosch123> frisian translation and toyland should be removed :p
20:57:16 *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggzzz
20:58:50 <frosch123> db48x: agreed, "remove toyland" requests are more common than "remove frisian translation", but both are equally weird requests
20:59:52 <Wolf01> I like to play toyland... this should be a good motive
20:59:53 <db48x> actually, "remove toyland" is partly justifiable, since each additional configuration option multiplies the amount of testing you have to do to ensure a quality product
21:00:41 *** Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggstry
21:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> a propos toyland, what happened to the brickland?
21:11:01 <Wolf01> it's there, in a lost folder of my hdd, I'll draw something when I have enough time, but less than one tile a week, so it is frozen
21:12:30 <Zuu> Wasn't OpenGFX doing some improvements to toyland. At least the terrain is a bit better in OpenGFX if I recall correctly.
21:14:08 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
21:25:55 <Darkvater> bjarni is active :)
21:26:04 <Darkvater> Bjarni is even here :)
21:28:14 <Darkvater> I can say the same thing about you :)
21:28:22 <Darkvater> how've you been lately?
21:29:23 <Bjarni> I work on getting my master this year
21:29:50 <Darkvater> this year as in dec'09 or sooner? ;)
21:30:31 <Bjarni> it's undecided but December isn't unrealistic
21:30:49 <Darkvater> ah, so still a long way to go :)
21:32:57 <planetmaker> Darkvater: I guess what the text next to it sais :P
21:34:18 <Darkvater> planetmaker: I'm glad to have that behind me :)
21:41:50 <Zuu> hmm, why do all my short nails have to have a small hole. Why do I have so many nails, but no short nail with a big hole? :s
21:42:11 *** energetic has left #openttd
21:42:23 <Aali> you have nails with holes in them?
21:42:30 <TinoDidriksen> Also known as screws
21:43:12 <Zuu> hmm, not nails, but needles :p
21:44:43 <el_en> Bjarni: after that you are to be called "Master Bjarni" in here.
21:46:04 <Bjarni> you should all address me as "Master" on the near future XD
21:46:50 <Zuu> In the future when you have to get out to the real world, as opposed to beeing a student :p
21:47:51 <Bjarni> you mean I'm not in the real world?
21:48:04 <Bjarni> then what is the real world like? Is it any good?
21:48:16 <Bjarni> can it be that good that there is no EU at all? :P
21:55:42 <SmatZ> Bjarni: EU? what do you mean?
21:55:47 <planetmaker> Bjarni, you may know a bit about the Mac API: can you tell me the difference between the Carbon type UniCharArray and a normal string?
21:56:02 <planetmaker> I somehow don't get it converted properly, I assuem...
21:57:01 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
21:57:26 <Bjarni> that's actually a good question
21:58:46 <planetmaker> it's a patch to r15438
21:58:51 <planetmaker> but I guess it still works
21:59:23 <SmatZ> planetmaker: lines 39/40 look ... strange :)
21:59:58 <Bjarni> that's trailing whitespace
22:00:03 <planetmaker> It's not tidied up in any way, so there are a lot of oddities
22:00:20 <SmatZ> I am eating, so I can't code
22:00:23 <planetmaker> no problem, you're right, SmatZ :)
22:00:41 <Bjarni> I usually have a lot of those, but I run the script before making a diff that I show to anybody else
22:00:42 <planetmaker> I appreciate that :)
22:01:14 <planetmaker> I hurried to catch you while you're here :P - and I'm still awake :P
22:02:03 *** Yeggstry has joined #openttd
22:02:21 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
22:02:46 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
22:02:47 <planetmaker> no, I tried trains ;)
22:03:15 <Bjarni> planetmaker: have you tried crashing this in qdb?
22:03:44 <planetmaker> hm... not really. I guess I *really* should learn to use it...
22:04:35 <Rubidium> it expects you to do ATSUCreateStyle(&text_style) I think
22:04:46 <SmatZ> Rubidium: just wanted to say the same :-p
22:04:47 <Rubidium> and ATSUStyle text_style
22:05:03 <Bjarni> gdb, qdb... same thing... it's a lot of text and once you read it and realised what goes on you start to laugh
22:05:29 <SmatZ> at least, googling for ATSUCreateStyle shows so
22:06:04 <planetmaker> ok, it's a bad memory access (kern protection failure)
22:06:16 <SmatZ> OSStatus status = ATSUCreateStyle(&style);
22:07:53 <Rubidium> or should I say, 'see' you later?
22:08:22 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
22:09:37 <planetmaker> hm... using &style creates a compile error
22:09:53 <planetmaker> /Users/ingo/ottd/fixing/src/strings.cpp:1588: error: cannot convert 'OpaqueATSUStyle***' to 'OpaqueATSUStyle**' for argument '1' to 'OSStatus ATSUCreateStyle(OpaqueATSUStyle**)'
22:10:05 <SmatZ> planetmaker: ap_err = ATSUCreateStyle(&text_style);
22:10:15 <SmatZ> ATSUStyle *text_style = NULL;
22:10:19 <Rubidium> remove the * from there
22:15:11 <Rubidium> bus error at line 75 now?
22:15:44 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
22:18:13 <planetmaker> well... it seems it doesn't reach that line even... debug output is enabled with -d freefont=7
22:18:18 <planetmaker> for freefont things, right?
22:18:52 <Rubidium> yeah, though it's probably freetype
22:20:44 <Zuu> <ot>Nice those americans have made both an "Metric" and a "English" version of the highway design manual. :) </ot>
22:21:42 <Rubidium> the highway needs to be 30 feet (10 yards) or 10 meter wide
22:22:29 <planetmaker> and yes, Rubidium, now it fails with the next function call, but I guess it needs the same mods for the things...
22:27:35 <planetmaker> he... the bus is fixed. now I get a segmentation fault...
22:28:31 <murr4y> ooh, 0.7.0 beta came yesterday :D
22:30:38 * dihedral wonders how many servers have upgraded
22:32:15 <Zuu> There is/was a NARS set + ECS server which runs 0.7 beta 1 earlirer tonight.
22:32:54 <Rubidium> that reminds me, dihedral: please
22:33:07 <Zuu> Oh, many more new 0.7 beta servers. :)
22:35:51 * Rubidium wonders whether dihedral will get the link
22:36:16 * dihedral steht auf dem schlauch
22:48:15 <planetmaker> ahm... hm... still some conversion magic needed.
22:48:28 <planetmaker> Well, that's for another day then
22:49:07 <planetmaker> a good night to all and thx Rubidium & SmatZ & Bjarni for your help
22:49:32 <Bjarni> no more new planets tonight :(
22:50:22 <SmatZ> good night, planetmaker :)
22:51:28 <planetmaker> Bjarni: we start with a moon :) It needs time to grow :)
23:38:26 <Xaroth> I take it it's not possible to have a dedicated server generate screenshots, right?
23:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it is, but the settings needed for that mostly defeat the purpose of a dedicated server
23:39:30 <Xaroth> well the concept is having the dedicated server take random screenshots during gameplay
23:39:45 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: actually, a real dedicated server doesn't have any blitter except the null blitter
23:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta had a feature like that, before the dedicated server got a real dedicated server
23:40:30 <Xaroth> but that required having video drivers installed/enabled
23:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> problem was that most of the time, it made shots of empty territory
23:40:47 <Brianetta> 0.6.3 can still do it, I think
23:40:59 <Brianetta> Mine was scripted to randomly change location
23:41:00 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
23:41:15 <Xaroth> I just tried with the ottdcoop build version and it does nothing
23:41:29 <Xaroth> but that's with --enable-dedicated
23:41:33 <Brianetta> Well, that's significantly newer than 0.6
23:41:35 <Rubidium> yes, 0.6.3 still has the blitters
23:41:58 <Brianetta> I took the screenshot facility out of mine when I was diagnosing the server's load problems
23:42:28 <Brianetta> I still have those problems - Apache driving the load average up to 30 or so. I have a script watching for it, and it restarts Apache.
23:42:50 <Brianetta> NFI what the cause is, but I suspect a PHP application is misbehaving.
23:43:16 <Xaroth> check the access log to see what's being accessed before the load shoots up?
23:43:57 <Elukka> i just tipped over a full glass of coke
23:44:02 <Elukka> miraculously, it didnt hit anything electric
23:45:07 <Brianetta> Xaroth: You'd think that would be easy. Unfortunately, in the thousands of lines of logs that *could* have caused it, none look out of the ordinary.
23:45:22 <Rubidium> sounds like our lighttpd problem
23:45:25 <Brianetta> I've already spent hours trying that.
23:45:53 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Once I was sshelled into the server when it happened, before my script. Load average reached 120.
23:46:05 <Brianetta> Interactive typing was... er... not so interactive.
23:46:11 <Brianetta> I managed to kill apache.
23:46:23 <Brianetta> Every time before that the OS had locked so hard I'd had to order a reboot.
23:46:57 <Brianetta> Now my script runs every five seconds. If the load average is above 10, it kills apache and restarts it.
23:47:06 <Brianetta> It normally catches the load at 30 or more
23:47:19 <Brianetta> and restarting apache *always* fixes it.
23:47:34 <Brianetta> It's a kludgey work-around, and I'm not proud of it.
23:47:40 <Rubidium> our problem is lighttpd leaking, but not actually leaking
23:48:24 <Xaroth> Brianetta: sometimes the most effective fixes are the ugliest of ones..
23:48:38 <Rubidium> i.e. valgrind doesn't show a leak, but over time it starts using more and more memory
23:48:48 <Xaroth> i have a script like that running on our production cluster
23:48:52 <Brianetta> Xaroth: That's just it. It's not fixed. It's a very rapid band-aid applicator.
23:49:40 <Xaroth> one of our customer's domino servers has the habbit of breaking down almost every day at around the same time
23:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> in professional areas, you'd call that a "watchdog", and cash extra for the feature ;)
23:50:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: they checked the vacuum cleaner lady?
23:50:05 <Xaroth> happens on multiple server environments, and the domino developers have no clue
23:50:21 <Xaroth> Eddi: we'd have noticed :)
23:50:27 <Brianetta> Sometimes the load shoots way up high, and being measured as a load average, Apache gets killed twice.
23:50:48 <Rubidium> Xaroth: might it be moisture?
23:51:12 <Xaroth> the server itself is fine
23:51:18 <Xaroth> it's -just- the domino process
23:51:48 <Xaroth> restarting that process fixes everything for another 23 hours and a bit
23:51:55 <Xaroth> and then it happens again
23:52:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: we say "doppelt hält besser" ;)
23:52:18 <Brianetta> Eddi: I call it overkill (:
23:53:47 <Brianetta> RS-SM: HELLO THERE, GUY FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF ALL-CAPS!
23:54:08 <RS-SM> HELLO MY FELLOW STUDENT
23:56:04 <Tefad> i think MIT does allcaps too
23:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> "Once i was apprentice at a tailor."
23:59:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "When i screwed something up, the foreman threw the smoothing iron after me"
23:59:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "but i ducked and evaded the shot, so the iron hit his wife"
23:59:49 <Eddi|zuHause> "'also fitting', said the foreman"
continue to next day ⏵
