IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-02-11
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00:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> not only yours ;)
00:06:06 <Rubidium> oh, lets integrate simsig too ;)
00:09:01 <rortom> google is your friend ;)
00:10:21 <Sacro> how did you manage that?
00:10:44 <Rubidium> by writing a few lines of awk ofcourse
00:11:18 <Roujin> rortom: hah, I can see NoAI :)
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00:12:41 <Rubidium> it's only 313 lines of awk
00:13:01 <rortom> 300 lines of awk are quite something o_O
00:13:13 <Rubidium> it's a single script
00:13:31 * Prof_Frink rewrites openttd as a 2-line perl script
00:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> why does it list java when there are 0 lines of it?
00:14:26 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: imports openttd;
00:14:39 <welshdragon> as it is a coding language Eddi|zuHause
00:14:49 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: universal binary?
00:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but there are >500 more coding languages that could be listed, welshdragon
00:15:10 <Prof_Frink> welshdragon: So's fuckfuck, but that's not listed.
00:15:13 <rortom> strange, maybe there was some java used before, but not recently?
00:15:31 <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause: point taken
00:15:47 * welshdragon ignores the rude remark of Prof_Frink
00:15:54 <Prof_Frink> welshdragon: No, really.
00:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause> is that a brainfuck dialect?
00:17:05 <welshdragon> we should write openttd in fuckfucjk
00:17:39 <rortom> i bet ohloh wouldnt detect whitespace :p
00:18:18 <Eddi|zuHause> certainly not when it is obfuscated within c code ;)
00:28:43 <Belugas> you do understand this is alomost considered as a provocation leading to a possible kick?
00:29:45 <Roujin> If you kick me, I am actually forced to study for my upcoming exam, than spending my nighttime otherwise :(
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00:30:37 <Belugas> is this a supplication?
00:30:54 *** Roujin was kicked by Rubidium (you wanted to learn for your exam)
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00:33:15 <Belugas> riping him out of his only socialisation
00:33:51 <SmatZ> ah... I thought you were talking about eddi :-p
00:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i could have said "nobody helps me writing my thesis either" ;)
00:35:17 <Rubidium> this kick is for the benefit of the community; now he has a higher chance to pass his exam, so he might finish his education earlier, get a job earlier, donate more earlier ;)
00:35:22 <Belugas> nobody could help you since nobody understand a thing you're saying, Eddi|zuHause
00:35:52 <kd5pbo> Eddi|zuHause: On what is your thesis?
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00:36:15 <Eddi|zuHause> on source code abstraction and analysis
00:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause> specifically, a mixture of python and c/c++
00:37:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it is, but i have not enough time to do everything i want ;)
00:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and i have problems actually writing stuff down
00:38:33 <kd5pbo> Nobody's gonna understand what you're writing.
00:38:50 <Eddi|zuHause> because the code is in python and c, not in java
00:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause> (it is real world industrial code)
00:39:25 <kd5pbo> I've noticed that most real world code does not seem to be Java.
00:39:37 <kd5pbo> My professors, however, haven't.
00:40:36 <goodger> kd5pbo: java is the only programming language used in real-world situations, possibly alongside C++ or visual basic
00:40:55 <goodger> if you don't believe that, you're overqualified for your course
00:41:03 <goodger> and I reckon you're probably at a british university?
00:41:23 <Eddi|zuHause> my professor teaches his very own language ;)
00:42:08 <goodger> all computing courses in the UK treat java like it's useful
00:42:15 <goodger> I assumed this was limited to the UK
00:42:22 <rortom> i think thats a global knownledge
00:42:30 <rortom> its in germany like that as well ...
00:43:18 <kd5pbo> For the first two years, Java is treated like it's the only language in existance.
00:43:24 <kd5pbo> All the others have died, or something.
00:43:41 <kd5pbo> Starting with the third year or so, professors seem to assume we know C.
00:48:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15441 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_info.cpp ai_info.hpp api/ai_industrytype.cpp): -Cleanup: Use a return value instead of passing a pointer to where the result should be stored.
00:48:45 <kd5pbo> My plane takes six months or so to get across the map.
00:48:49 <thingwath> exams, exams, I have passed a formal langauges exam, lala :o)
00:48:51 <kd5pbo> My pasengers must really have to pee.
00:49:27 <Rubidium> that's not that hard
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00:56:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you must study at the wrong universities
00:57:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i have used at least a dozen programming languages
01:03:33 <Sacro> kd5pbo: we are doing c#, c++, prolog
01:03:50 <Sacro> next year we can do lexx/bison
01:04:43 <kd5pbo> The lack of return values got to me.
01:05:21 <thingwath> lack of return values?
01:05:38 <kd5pbo> Doesn't prolog not have return values.
01:07:15 <Rubidium> amanda, asm c, c++, c#, java, haskell, labview, maple, matlab, prolog, vhdl (and I've got the feeling I've forgotten some)
01:07:54 <thingwath> prolog is basicaly only a logic resolution with horn claueses, isn't it?
01:08:06 <SmatZ> Rubidium: vhdl, but not verilog?
01:09:09 <Rubidium> SmatZ: might be, but I don't remember that so clearly anymore
01:12:18 <SmatZ> impressive... my CPU is overheating when I open the case
01:12:25 <SmatZ> but when I close it, it isn't
01:12:42 <fjb> You learned about air flow.
01:13:12 <SmatZ> fjb: shouldn't open case reduce the temperature inside computer?
01:13:29 <kd5pbo> SmatZ: Not necessarily.
01:13:52 <SmatZ> well, the reason is the cooler runs at ~2800 RPM when the case is open... but goes up to ~4000 when it is closed
01:14:47 <SmatZ> so the CPU doesn't overheat
01:14:48 <fjb> SmatZ: No, as the closed cases assures that there is some air flow at the important places.
01:16:18 <SmatZ> fjb: it's more clever than I thought
01:19:26 <SmatZ> anyway, I blame the thermoregulation of the cooler for this
01:19:48 <SmatZ> if it was controlled by MB, it wouldn't be overheating... and it would be more silent
01:21:08 * Sacro controlled by micheal blunck?
01:21:25 <fjb> I thought the same at the first moment. :-)
01:22:14 <fjb> It would only work with main boards made by Intel.
01:24:38 <SmatZ> I got some gigabyte... and it offers CPU FAN RMP regulation too
01:25:09 <SmatZ> it even offers to choose between "regulate voltage / use PWM"
01:25:38 * SmatZ should have a look in his notes what would be the advantage of using PWM...
01:26:19 <fjb> PWM is the new 4 pin connector.
01:26:56 <SmatZ> is this PWM something different than "pulse width modulation"?
01:27:40 <fjb> I thinking about that. At least it uses some clock singal instead of changing the voltage.
01:28:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15442 /trunk/src/network/network_chat_gui.cpp: -Codechange: don't do magic on magic numbers when you can also use a single named constant.
01:28:56 <SmatZ> if you send the "pulses" from MB, you don't need 4 pins ... 2 would be enough :) (+ 1 for reading RPM)
01:29:30 <SmatZ> well... maybe it uses that "weird" PWM that allows rotating in both directions... or so :)
01:30:41 <thingwath> hm, hardware, how do I like it...
01:31:25 <fjb> Hm, don't know, but I found many meanings for PWM on wikipedia.
01:31:36 <thingwath> my computer died few times this week, with something like machine check exception 0+4
01:32:46 <thingwath> so if it will continue, I don't have any other idea then buying a new one
01:33:45 <SmatZ> MCE's are CPU-family specific, have a look at your CPU's documentation :)
01:34:03 <thingwath> I did, it seems it's just a generic error "something went wrong"
01:34:55 <thingwath> and it really shouldn't just blink and reboot itself :)
01:35:29 <SmatZ> if you are using windows, you can disable the "reboot after error" somewhere ... but you get a bluscreen, that's not much better :-p
01:37:38 <thingwath> well, I use linux :) and it displayed the MCE error when trying to boot again, the first reboot was just a sudden failure
01:38:03 <SmatZ> I remember I used to have these errors too
01:38:12 <SmatZ> I installed mcelog, but it didn't help at all
01:38:15 <thingwath> the most common problem with this HP laptops is cracked motherboard or something like this, it may be this problem
01:38:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15443 /3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/ (sqapi.cpp sqvm.cpp sqvm.h): [Squirrel] -Fix [FS#2627]: Squirrel stack corruption resulting if an AI was suspended in a metamethod.
01:39:05 <SmatZ> I was getting these errors when booting up... I don't remember how I fixed that though :-x maybe kernel upgrade did the job :) or disabling MCE in kernel config ;)
01:39:56 <thingwath> the main problem is not the MCE error, it doesn't happen on every boot :) main problem is the sudden reboot...
01:40:06 <SmatZ> I know it was quite recently...
01:40:59 <SmatZ> thingwath: if you are using 2.6.26, stop using it :)
01:42:08 <thingwath> I have Fedora 10 .27 kernel :)
01:42:18 <SmatZ> hmhm I don't know then :(
01:43:27 <thingwath> maybe it won't happen again :)
01:44:36 <thingwath> I hope so, I don't like the idea of buying a new computer every 3 years or so
01:44:59 <SmatZ> I know I was having problems at one computer - locking up every ~7 days, and the other computer failed to boot once in ~4 tries
01:45:39 <SmatZ> but now I am using 2.6.28 and I don't have any problems anymore (I think I didn't have problems with 2.6.27 neither)
01:46:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15444 /trunk/src/lang/ (42 files):
01:46:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r15425): the chat messages gone gray. That gray colour was technically
01:46:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: right. The string contained {GRAY}, but due to a latent bug (accidentally fixed
01:46:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: in r15425) in the string drawing routing the gray would be interpreted as use
01:46:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: palette colour 14, which is a white.
01:46:49 <thingwath> I don't know, I still hope that if it was a kernel problem, it would still show some error message or at least blink with keyboard LEDs before dying completely :) (I know, I'm so naive.)
01:47:22 <Rubidium> not if the kernel overrides your ACPI stuff
01:47:24 <SmatZ> maybe PSU is going to die or so :)
01:47:54 <thingwath> it's mostly already dead
01:49:10 <goodger> 27 isn't very mature yet
01:49:25 <goodger> and F10 was by no means mature when released
01:49:57 <SmatZ> goodger: it's the next kernel to be "maintainted for very long time" (as 2.6.16 used to be :)
01:50:10 <thingwath> or at least I think I need a new charger, only because a connector...
01:50:41 <thingwath> well, I've been using F10 from the second test :) I'm used to it, I do it with every fedora from version 4 or 5. :o)
01:52:37 <SmatZ> hmm 2.6 tree is 5 years old!
01:55:30 <goodger> and from an interview from circa 2.6.13, it will not be replaced
01:55:52 <thingwath> yes, but 2.6.28 would most likely be 2.10.0 with the old release system :)
01:56:13 <SmatZ> I think there was a discussion if it's better to use "another 2.6.xx , 2.8 or 3.0"
01:56:29 <SmatZ> the "use 2.6.xx" opinion probably won :)
01:56:35 <thingwath> Linus suggested something like Ubuntu date-based numbers.
01:56:48 <goodger> a problem with 2.2 vs 2.4 was observed
01:56:58 <goodger> people kept backporting things from 2.3 into the 2.2 kernel
01:57:12 <goodger> so they thought "sod it, we'll just release with linear version numbering"
02:00:16 <thingwath> date-based release numbers are not that bad idea, for example, I can remember that .23 was almost unusable for me, because there were lot of changes, but I can't remember when it was... last year? 2007? I just don't know.
02:01:17 <goodger> does it really matter when it was released?
02:02:02 * SmatZ was surprised when he understood the meaning of ".4" and ".10" numbers ;)
02:02:20 <SmatZ> (in Ubuntu, month on release)
02:02:53 <thingwath> it took me about two years :o)
02:03:07 <SmatZ> hehe someone else told me so :o)
02:12:56 <goodger> it all went wrong with the 6.10 release
02:13:57 <goodger> they had four months to develop a new release of ubuntu. they decided to shove a lot of bleeding-edge features into it
02:14:20 <goodger> it became apparent that the bleeding-edge features would make it buggy as hell, and they decided to remove many of them
02:14:27 <goodger> despite this, it was still buggy as hell
02:15:13 <kd5pbo> Does anything affect an industry's production?
02:15:33 <kd5pbo> Percentage of cargo, transported, for example.
02:30:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r15445 /trunk/src/core/smallmap_type.hpp: -Fix: little typos
02:41:57 * welshdragon is tired, but has to get up in 4 hours
02:44:44 <goodger> welshdragon: stay up and drink a colossal amount of caffeine, then get to bed early
02:46:06 <welshdragon> goodger: i'm drinking fresh orange
02:46:28 <goodger> get yeself a two-litre bottle of pepsi max and a toilet
02:46:48 <welshdragon> hmm, all the pepsi max is gone :(
02:47:15 <welshdragon> nearest shop is closed
02:47:29 <welshdragon> 3rd nearest is about a 45 minute round trip walking
02:47:36 <goodger> go to a less-near shop?
02:48:04 <goodger> see, if I really need anything, there's a 24-hour tesco ten minutes away
02:48:06 * welshdragon can't drive either
02:48:56 <goodger> how do you move about?
02:48:59 * welshdragon points goodger to v
02:49:49 <welshdragon> that kinda explains about my sight
02:50:46 <goodger> how long have you had that?
02:53:07 <goodger> how monstrously unpleasant a hand dealt by fate
02:53:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r15446 /trunk/src/core/smallmap_type.hpp:
02:53:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Revert(r15445): Seems that "iff" stands for "if and only if". So not much of a typo.
02:53:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Thanks, Yexo. I feel less ignorant today :D
02:54:03 <welshdragon> lol, what a revision!
02:54:47 <goodger> my grandmother is suffering from macular degeneration and cataracts, but my eyesight actually exceeds 20:20, so I have no idea what it must be like
02:55:31 <goodger> corrective lenses are powerless to help, I suppose, with this sort of thing
02:55:34 <welshdragon> goodger: my girlfriend has a similar condition, but hers affects her differently, she scored highly on an Autistic Spectrum test, so i believer she also has a form of autism
02:55:39 <goodger> still, I'd have thought there'd be a surgical assistance
02:56:02 <welshdragon> goodger: still, I'd have thought there'd be a surgical assistance < not necessarily
02:56:27 <Sacro> cataracts can be lasered off
02:56:35 <Sacro> but only when they've developed sufficiently
02:56:44 <Sacro> macular degeneration is incurable currently
02:56:54 <goodger> I was talking about welshdragon's thing
02:56:55 <Sacro> btu there's hope of stem cells being able to regenerate them
02:57:08 <goodger> the NHS refused to treat the cataracts because she's too old
02:57:16 <goodger> I'm well aware the macular degeneration is incurable
02:57:31 <goodger> welshdragon: I can sympathise with her on that: I have asperger syndrome, it's not pleasant
02:57:37 <welshdragon> me and my girlfriend's vision can't be surgically cured, in fact, it could worsen and both of us could end up blind
02:57:51 <goodger> still, I can't imagine having impaired vision
02:59:26 <goodger> that must be frustrating
02:59:36 <welshdragon> goodger: the easiest way to describe my vision is to get a crystal cleat picture on an analog television set
02:59:47 <welshdragon> then slightly detune it
03:00:01 <goodger> ah, that's what channel four looks like all the time
03:01:06 <welshdragon> goodger: see /query :P
03:02:10 <thingwath> I'm happy with my shortsightedness :-)
03:02:31 <goodger> I'm happy with my superhuman vision :S
03:03:05 <goodger> I suppose I should be grateful for having a primarily conforming physical body
03:03:59 <thingwath> On the other hand, I don't like woodpeckers because of that.
03:04:47 <thingwath> :) I were always told "look, a woodpecker there!", and I could never see any :D
03:05:42 <thingwath> they are still quite mythical creatures for me
03:07:38 <thingwath> seeing is believing
03:08:13 <goodger> then again, I've never seen one of those pigeons that goes "hoooooooo!" in the night obscenely loudly
03:11:10 <thingwath> I've heard them. Even tried to kill them.
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03:15:00 <thingwath> they always managed to cover my balcony with 2 centimeters thick layer of shit every in three days after the last cleaning, bleh
03:26:15 <welshdragon> thingwath: just pour some poison over their food
03:26:24 <welshdragon> they will soon leave :P
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03:36:32 <thingwath> Not because of the pidgeons. :-)
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04:54:26 <kd5pbo> Is there any way to increase a town's size besides moving people around?
04:54:35 <kd5pbo> Also, is there any way to convince a small town to accept goods?
05:00:08 <goodger> you can ship goods to a town to make it grow
05:04:41 <kd5pbo> My towns are too small for that, too.
05:05:39 <goodger> then move people about. :(
05:07:52 <kd5pbo> I get about 20 people a month to move.
05:08:33 <kd5pbo> And, the towns are 2000 squares apart or so.
05:08:36 <goodger> how small is this town?
05:09:02 <kd5pbo> One's got 251 people, the other 353.
05:09:49 <goodger> I suggest you locate your bus station more centrally
05:10:02 <goodger> and possibly provide a shuttle bus service to the railway station if a railway station is used
05:10:31 <kd5pbo> Is there any point to a bus service in a town that small?
05:10:58 <goodger> yes, if the railway station is located too far away
05:11:28 <kd5pbo> Two squares from what appears to be main street?
05:11:41 <kd5pbo> One square, in the other town.
05:25:48 <kd5pbo> What does the red and green bar under the waiting cargo value bars represent?
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05:51:47 <De_Ghost> the tried and true method of growing town
05:51:52 <De_Ghost> just build 9 stations
05:52:01 <De_Ghost> run a bus or 2 constantly
05:52:10 <De_Ghost> doesn't matter where as long as they are in the town limit :)
05:52:18 <De_Ghost> so they can acually be beside each other
05:53:42 <goodger> bus station, tile of road, bus station
05:54:23 <kd5pbo> I don't think that would work very well.
05:54:31 <kd5pbo> Only one way to find out.
05:59:28 <De_Ghost> we grow towns all the time
06:02:17 <kd5pbo> My stations kept wanting to join together.
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07:05:52 <petern> "if and only if" should be represented by the text "if and only if" not "iff"
07:07:04 <petern> i'm not quite sure what "if and only if" is supposed to mean here, though.
07:10:23 <petern> seems that "if" by itself is perfectly correct.
07:13:15 <planetmaker> [08:05] <petern> "if and only if" should be represented by the text "if and only if" not "iff" <-- petern, iff is widely used in the mathematical community :)
07:13:54 <planetmaker> iff as opposed to if means, if A -> B; if not A -> not B
07:14:19 <planetmaker> while if means: if A -> B; if not > -> anything
07:14:29 <petern> what part of "true if the key was found" is ambiguous?
07:14:31 <planetmaker> while if means: if A -> B; if not A -> anything
07:15:19 <Rubidium> it could also be true if the key was not found
07:16:03 <petern> have fun updating a fuck load of comments just for your pedanticism
07:16:26 <planetmaker> computers are more pedantic than humans ;)
07:18:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15447 /trunk/src/core/ (smallmap_type.hpp smallvec_type.hpp): -Codechange: void functions don't tend to return true if and only if anyway
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07:27:50 <petern> planetmaker: computers don't read comments written for humans
07:28:25 <planetmaker> despite that it may be important to know, if a relation is either A <-> B or only A -> B :)
07:28:30 <petern> maybe in non-english your rules for if are different
07:29:04 <Sacro> if it is raining, i will get wet
07:29:13 <Sacro> however that's not to say that if i'm wet then it's raining
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07:30:00 <Rubidium> petern: some academic teachers seem to think they do
07:30:15 <petern> who gives a fuck about them?
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07:32:29 <planetmaker> their students should in their exams ;)
07:33:12 <planetmaker> iff they have such teacher :P
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08:59:02 <planetmaker> morning dihedral :)
09:01:06 <goodger> morning dihedral, planetmaker
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09:01:29 * planetmaker hands a cup of tea to dihedral and goodger
09:03:10 <dihedral> goodger, you sound like a kid
09:03:50 <goodger> I am legally classified as one in some territories...
09:06:46 <goodger> I don't plan to start liking tea or coffee at any point in the future
09:07:57 <planetmaker> well. Thinking of coke... thinking of phosphorous acid, nitric acid and sugar are synonyms... :)
09:08:51 <goodger> I drink pepsi max, it only has the phosphoric acid
09:09:31 <goodger> and E150d, aspartame, acesulphame K, flavourings, sodium benzoate, and citric acid.
09:10:46 <goodger> I like how the E-numbering system has become basically worthless since manufacturers are putting the full chemical names of ingredients on the cans, to avoid customers looking at it and thinking "lots of E-numbers"
09:12:09 <planetmaker> well. Better the full name than just cryptic numbers.
09:12:36 <goodger> the cryptic numbers were designed specifically to be non-cryptic
09:12:45 <goodger> for instance, anything beginning with 1 was a colourant
09:14:48 <planetmaker> which doesn't tell you anything about how the substance works
09:14:56 <planetmaker> in biochemical contexts
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09:22:32 <petern> planetmaker is missing the point
09:22:47 <petern> most people don't understand the names anyway
09:24:37 <planetmaker> true. Nor do they the E-numbers.
09:24:48 <planetmaker> so neither matters, does it?
09:25:46 <petern> except for the 'lots of E-numbers' bit that goodger pointed out
09:26:02 <goodger> the "lots of E-numbers" bit is quite important.
09:28:27 <petern> it's amusing to see the number of names they can come up with for sugar to avoid it being first in the list
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09:29:59 <goodger> glucose syrup. fructose syrup. maltose-fructose syrup
09:30:14 <goodger> my favourite is the words used for fats, however
09:34:05 <planetmaker> [10:28] <petern> it's amusing to see the number of names they can come up with for sugar to avoid it being first in the list <-- very true indeed :)
09:34:22 <planetmaker> every small change of a hydrogen atom called differently...
09:34:38 <planetmaker> goodger: what's that? (the word)?
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09:35:02 <goodger> planetmaker: I can't find any precise examples
09:35:07 <goodger> but it was something like....
09:35:14 <goodger> "mono- and diglycerides of fatty acids"
09:35:34 <goodger> "mono- and diglycerides of something else"
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09:54:54 * petern wonders how X509Store works on mono...
09:56:51 <petern> how does X509Store work on mono?
10:00:55 <petern> hmm, there's a certmgr but that's part of the 1.0 framework :/
10:01:14 <Sacro> just doing my coursework
10:06:16 <petern> what's up with tcpclient?
10:14:58 <Sacro> lawrence has spent about 20 mins waiting for his desktop to load
10:15:02 <Sacro> and fire up visual studio
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10:15:29 <Sacro> we usually sneak into the .net lab
10:15:45 <Sacro> that has quad core phenoms and 4GB ram
10:15:52 <Sacro> and a gamecube devkit on each machine
10:15:55 <petern> just write c# in vim and use gmcs to compile it
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10:16:51 <Sacro> then 2 minutes for file
10:16:54 <Sacro> another minute to click new
10:17:07 <Sacro> let's see how long before it can figure out what to offer him
10:17:16 <petern> works fine for me, heh
10:19:11 <Sacro> grr, his server is giving unexpected results
10:19:27 <petern> bah, now certmgr won't import my p12 ;(
10:23:32 <smallfly> where i can upload a sourcecode easily? not like sourceforge, where you have to select the licence, type of project etc. i just want to upload my source to grant other programmers access to it, so that they can discuss about it
10:24:22 <smallfly> to complicated. i need something like a code viewer
10:24:34 <smallfly> i want to update the source daily.
10:24:38 <dihedral> what do you think you have for an audience in the forums?
10:24:54 <dihedral> get yourself an svn repo
10:25:08 <SmatZ> there are several places that host hg repos... but I forgot names
10:25:21 <dihedral> idiot! sorry - but honestly - you asked for that one
10:26:31 <smallfly> i know "google is your friend", and of course i googled before
10:27:05 <dihedral> smallfly, you seem to need everything predigested and your nappies changed by mom...!
10:27:20 *** petern sets mode: +b *!*dih@*.vserver.de
10:27:20 *** dihedral was kicked by petern (yawn)
10:29:19 * smallfly suppresses any comments
10:30:17 <Roest> btw googlecode is svn so you will need an svn client
10:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Hg is the chemical symbol for mercury, of course
10:31:24 <Roest> honestly that's a typical nerd thing, no other normal person would make that connection
10:32:16 *** petern sets mode: -b *!*dih@*.vserver.de
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10:32:24 <smallfly> well, i have a svn client to download the openttd source.
10:37:28 <smallfly> had a look at code.google.com. they also ask for a licence type. perhaps i just host it myself ...
10:37:47 <petern> why not just pick a license?
10:38:02 <smallfly> because i dont the content of all those licences
10:38:10 <petern> if you were using opengfx then you ought to pick GPL anyway
10:38:10 <dihedral> then start reading it
10:38:13 <SpComb> smallfly: bitbucket/github
10:38:32 <smallfly> if you were using opengfx then you ought to pick GPL anyway <-- good point
10:38:32 <dihedral> publishing something without specifying a lisence is not a very wise thing to do
10:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> distributing stuff _without_ license is generally a bad idea
10:38:57 <dihedral> smallfly, i would suggest you read the gpl license though
10:39:18 <SpComb> as the origional author, you have the copyrights and nobody can stop you from distributing that
10:39:19 <smallfly> i dont want to complete the project i upload, i just want to give other people the chance to see a fully functioning complex graphical game written in c#
10:39:37 <smallfly> AND want to discuss about the things, you could realize a better way
10:39:50 <dihedral> then visit the correct irc channel, and dcc send the source to everybody
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10:40:05 <SpComb> and my understanding of code sitting in a repo somewhere without any license is that you're free to download it and use it, but distributing it is a no-no
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10:40:31 <dihedral> SpComb, simple copyright would apply, would it not?
10:40:32 <SpComb> smallfly: bitbucket/github gives you an online source code browser that you can link to etc, wiki, and issue tracker
10:40:41 * petern fancies some cola now, thanks to goodger :/
10:40:58 <smallfly> bitbucket/github gives you an online source code browser that you can link to etc, wiki, and issue tracker <-- now we get closer to my intention
10:41:02 <dihedral> petern, you are a very fast person today
10:41:15 <dihedral> he said that like 3 hours ago
10:41:16 <petern> i had coffee at the time
10:41:34 <goodger> petern: I'm flattered by the idea that I can influence someone like that ^_^
10:41:36 <dihedral> smallfly, you would have to use git :-)
10:41:55 <SpComb> smallfly: bitbucket gives you 150MB for free, and you can learn how to use mercurial at the same time, as an added bonus :)
10:41:56 <dihedral> goodger, dont try it with patches :-D
10:42:43 <dihedral> SpComb, he will not want to do that - he would have to read more than just having to read a few license files, which he already does not want to do which is the reason why he does not want to use sf or google code
10:43:07 <dihedral> so that would be a huge contradiction
10:43:27 <SpComb> version control and licensing are both important things for a developer to know and understand
10:43:44 <Sacro> SpComb: does bitbucket force you to show source?
10:43:51 <Sacro> cos that's bad for uni things
10:43:54 <dihedral> smallfly, if you weigh out how many people would consider looking at the code, and how much upload bandwidth you have, just host it at home and use something like dyndns
10:44:34 <smallfly> (i have several websites; i can host the code there; i'd just need a php-based code viewer module)
10:44:36 <dihedral> i would not expect there to be too many requests :-P
10:44:49 <dihedral> smallfly, you have a svn repository?
10:45:18 <smallfly> i have a svn client. does that answer your question?
10:45:24 <Sacro> Born_Acorn: i have Windows Me
10:45:29 <Sacro> i'm trying to get it to use NTLMv2
10:45:43 <Born_Acorn> Windows Me? Nooooooo!
10:45:49 <Sacro> Born_Acorn: OSX won't do what I want
10:45:52 * dihedral can think of many words now which he will not say because petern would possibly believe it would be an overreaction
10:45:57 <Sacro> I only have an ME VM on me
10:46:23 <Roest> so dihedral got up with the wrong foot today?
10:46:40 <dihedral> got out of the wrong bed :-D
10:46:51 <Born_Acorn> Sacro, if I was religious I would pray for your computer!
10:46:58 * smallfly just looks for a php solution
10:47:01 <Sacro> Macbook running Windows ME <2
10:47:17 <dihedral> Born_Acorn, depends on the religion
10:47:29 <Roest> smallfly that leaves me speachless now too
10:47:49 <dihedral> Roest, now may i say that he is clearly asking for those comments?
10:47:59 <smallfly> what? that i do not know how to setup a svn repository?
10:48:09 <dihedral> no - there is more :-)
10:48:31 <Roest> there was a time i didnt know that either, but as a programmer you should educate yourself on how to do it
10:48:34 <dihedral> do you have ssh access to your webhost?
10:48:50 <dihedral> what is the prob with using google or sf?
10:49:16 <petern> can i "uninherit" a class method ? :o
10:49:31 <kd5pbo> At one point there was some university in Taiwan that would give you free space for a repository.
10:49:50 <Rubidium> overload it an fill it with NOT_REACHED?
10:50:15 <SmatZ> petern: maybe make it private? (so it is "hidden" from outside world"
10:50:18 <dihedral> smallfly, is your only objection towards sf or google code the fact you would have to chose a license?
10:50:42 <smallfly> i dont need to share the code. just need a read-only possibility. think, that a php-based code would do its job in this case. only need to look for it.
10:50:54 <smallfly> smallfly, is your only objection towards sf or google code the fact you would have to chose a license? <-- yes
10:50:58 <dihedral> smallfly, where is 'read only' not 'share'
10:51:00 <petern> SmatZ, not allowed to change access from public to private :(
10:51:38 <dihedral> making it readable to public is equals to publishing it
10:51:41 <Roest> smallfly are you on windows?
10:52:18 <Roest> no i didnt mean to imply anything about windows users
10:52:47 <Roest> but on windows you can just install svn as a service and run the repo, get dyndns and you're set for your purpose
10:53:33 <kd5pbo> smallfly: Your uni doesn't give you webspace or something?
10:54:41 <dihedral> smallfly, what do you study?
10:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> smallfly: i would urgently advise you to chose a license
10:55:11 * smallfly needs to look up the word "wirtschaftsingenieurwesen"
10:55:50 <smallfly> somethink like industrial engineering and management
10:56:26 <Roest> ok officially you are not required to know about setting up a svn repo
10:56:41 <energetic> I am looking for the code where food/goods affect town growth positively. I cant find it, after searching for a few hours. Is it there, and if yes, where (063)?
10:56:53 <smallfly> because of the opengraphics i use. i need to choose gpl i think
10:57:06 <energetic> I did find the code where water/food is required in desert/arctic towns.
10:57:13 <Sacro> smallfly: I don't think that's tue
10:57:21 <Eddi|zuHause> energetic: i'd try something like town_cmd.cpp
10:57:22 <dihedral> wirtschaftsingenieurwesen <- dann solltest du doch etwas heller sein ;-)
10:57:48 <energetic> Eddi: thats where I looked most of the time. Either I need more coffee or...?
10:58:06 <Eddi|zuHause> energetic: i don't think there is a positive effect
10:58:14 <smallfly> irc command to send a pm?
10:58:30 <dihedral> have you on ignore for pm's anyway already
10:58:36 <energetic> so bringing food/goods to town doesnt help growth....
10:58:56 <smallfly> dont mean an extra pm window
10:59:06 <Eddi|zuHause> but it does not matter if you bring 5 or 5000 units each month
10:59:51 <dihedral> smallfly, if you want everybody to be able to read your code, that is the same as publishing it
10:59:56 <energetic> but i cant find the code anywhere. Also: the wiki states increasing food supply helps growth. Cant find that either.
11:00:02 <dihedral> then you should really pick a license to be on the safe side
11:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> energetic: then the wiki is probably wrong
11:00:49 <smallfly> [11:56] <kd5pbo> smallfly: /msg <-- thx
11:00:51 <Roest> i kinda doubt make code readably equals publishing it as open source
11:00:58 <energetic> hmm, but I want to be sure. Since I have not read a whole lot of cpp code in my life, Im here to confirm
11:01:21 <energetic> thats why I am thinking more that _I_ am wrong, and I just missed the code.
11:01:27 <dihedral> Roest, why is that? where is the difference
11:01:56 <dihedral> eitherway you have 'published it'
11:01:57 <smallfly> dihedral, i dont think that you may call me an idiot because of a lack of knowledge concerning several it things
11:02:10 <energetic> but the wiki article is incorrect/not complete on more parts, I will edit it soon i think
11:02:14 <smallfly> you cant know everything
11:02:15 <dihedral> smallfly, you are right
11:02:21 <energetic> If I can get the rights to do it
11:02:38 <dihedral> appology accepted :-D
11:06:44 <SpComb> Sacro: I don't use it, but there's some kind of feature called "private repos"
11:07:10 <SpComb> Sacro: if you really care about now giving the source to 3rd parties, then don't, i.e. don't use bitbucket
11:07:22 <Sacro> well not so much "3rd parties"
11:07:27 <Sacro> but other students on my course
11:07:36 <Sacro> if they find my repo then we both get done for plagierism :(
11:07:51 <smallfly> so, now you convinced me to choose a licence: which one should i take (its a c# project, programmed by myself, using the opengfx)
11:08:12 <Sacro> depends, do you want to allow commercial usage?
11:08:34 <dihedral> smallfly, what aims to you have?
11:08:39 <smallfly> but remember, the opengfx are in!
11:08:42 <dihedral> you already said you dont want to publish it
11:08:53 <smallfly> i said i want to publish it
11:09:08 <smallfly> you always turn around the words in my mouth
11:09:13 <dihedral> but - you want it to be open source, and you want others to benefit from it? (use it without having to ask for your permission)
11:09:34 <dihedral> smallfly, sorry - my typo - you said you did not want to 'complete' it :-P
11:09:59 <smallfly> (i want to complete it, but i know that i would not be able to manage that)
11:10:15 <dihedral> you care for others being able to modify your code and redistribute it? or they can base complete new projects on your code....
11:10:33 <Sacro> sigh, how to get hg serve to work with forests
11:10:33 <smallfly> everybody may use the code
11:10:54 <smallfly> the only problem i have are the opengfx i use
11:11:00 <Sacro> smallfly: even a business for profit?
11:11:13 <Sacro> say I wanted to sell your program
11:11:31 <energetic> so you may end up buying your own code in binary form :D
11:11:51 <kd5pbo> What license are opengfx?
11:11:56 <smallfly> if that leeds to a programm i really like, why not
11:12:00 <energetic> (this is what actually happened to some oldtime coders who bought a mac)
11:12:26 <dihedral> smallfly, what if it does not lead to an app you like?
11:12:50 <kd5pbo> What if Microsoft decides to appropriate it?
11:12:50 <smallfly> whats to wrong about it?
11:12:54 <dihedral> what if someone just packages what you have written, prints a manual booklet and sells that, perhaps even makes money on it
11:13:21 <smallfly> ok, ok, just say what licence i should take!!
11:13:37 <dihedral> those questions will give you options of licenses
11:13:48 <dihedral> we are not trying to annoy you
11:13:58 <dihedral> we are asking things where licenses differ
11:14:06 <petern> FreeBSD is more open than GPL
11:14:17 <petern> i think i meant to type BSD :o
11:14:48 * dihedral knows a mom who is more open than gpl :-P
11:15:45 <smallfly> whats the main difference between gnu general public and gnu lesser public? asked a different way: what would YOU prefer for YOUR projects
11:16:09 <SpComb> LGPL = GPL for libraries
11:16:20 <SpComb> i.e. non-GPL code can use LGPL code as a library
11:17:20 <smallfly> with libraries you mean selfmade dll files, do you?
11:17:35 <dihedral> LGPL was renamed from Library GPL to Lesser GPL
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11:17:48 <dihedral> precisely because of that misconception
11:18:06 <dihedral> smallfly, a good idea is to read them
11:18:10 <dihedral> it does not take very long
11:18:18 <dihedral> and is usually helpful
11:18:23 <dihedral> for now and for future stuff
11:18:29 <dihedral> at least you then know what they state
11:18:58 <SpComb> dihedral: well, that's the original idea, I believe
11:19:12 <SpComb> smallfly: if you don't really care, sounds like you just want the GPL
11:19:26 <SpComb> and if OpenGFX is GPL, then it's easier to just use the GPL as well yourself instead of wrangling about weird stuff
11:19:30 <SpComb> heh, now that's a slightly harder question
11:20:41 * smallfly comes to the point to use GPL. last question to clarify: GPL version 2 or 3
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11:21:12 <SpComb> I guess GPLv3 is the safe bet, and I can't really argue against it
11:21:44 <SpComb> in theory it's the same as GPLv2 with some loopholes patched up, but it's more complicated than the GPLv2
11:22:10 <SpComb> smallfly: for a one-man project, licensing isn't such a terribly important thing, and you can always change it later if it's your code
11:22:33 <smallfly> yeah, i never said something else. the licence is just required to host it
11:23:47 <SpComb> yeah, just making sure you don't stress too much about it, and spoil it all for yourself :P
11:23:56 <el_en> remember that GPLv2 and GPLv3 are not compatible.
11:25:28 <smallfly> "OpenGFX is licensed under the General Public License version 2.0." <--- should i also take 2.0 for my project to make it easier?
11:27:10 <smallfly> el_en, this question was directed to you (?)
11:29:39 <SpComb> you won't loose very much if you choose GPLv2 over v3
11:29:59 <SpComb> but the not-compatible thing sounds very silly
11:33:28 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: for them to be compatible it must be "GPLv2 or later"
11:33:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot just take GPLv2 code and release it under GPLv3
11:34:15 <Ammler> davis, nacity, yarrs, citystations (newstations), newdepot or something like that (all in coop grfpack)
11:37:38 <Timitry> Can i merge a patch with MinGW and MSys?
11:43:23 <el_en> SpComb: "loose" → "lose"
11:43:24 <planetmaker> it asks the correct questions and shows the differences between the major licenses
11:43:40 <smallfly> k, thx, i saved the link
11:47:18 <smallfly> am i also allowed to upload the SDL *.dll 's as well as the opengfx?
11:47:49 <planetmaker> read the licenses which accompany those things.
11:48:17 <smallfly> "GNU LGPL license" --> so i may use the libraries = dlls as you said
11:48:25 <smallfly> but may i also upload the files?
11:49:57 <Timitry> Don't trust me, but: Yes, with proper credits
11:50:35 <smallfly> ok, i'll take that as a no. ;-)
11:58:44 <smallfly> now i uploaded the whole project
11:59:49 <smallfly> perhaps i can show you now, which advantages i see in c# concerning to readability of the code compared to c++
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12:36:46 <dihedral> smallfly, you can write code nearly anyhow you like (for a lot of languages that is the case at least)
12:37:26 <dihedral> being used to or not being used to the coding style in openttd has nothing to do with readability of the language
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12:45:23 <fjb> Any C bases syntax is far from the optimum of readability. It is efficient to type and parse, but not to read.
12:46:16 <SpComb> smallfly: the nth rule of SCM is that you don't store generated files under version control
12:46:45 <Ammler> SpComb: like openttdw.grf?
12:47:02 <SpComb> in an ideal world, you wouldn't
12:47:22 <SpComb> you'd have the grfcodec source and the nfo/image stuff, and generate the .grf at make-time
12:47:39 <SpComb> dunno how people handle versioning of the openttdw nfo/pcm now
12:48:27 <Roest> dihedral there is a big difference if i just let someone read the code or if i let them use and change it
12:48:41 <SpComb> but the nfo/pcx -> grf probably isn't part of the build process?
12:48:59 <smallfly> smallfly: the nth rule of SCM is that you don't store generated files under version control <--- do i?
12:49:01 <glx> there's a makefile for it :)
12:49:09 <dihedral> Roest, where is the difference between 'read access' for all and 'published'?
12:49:13 <Rubidium> SpComb: neither is the assembler for a C++ compiler...
12:49:42 <dihedral> if you can read the code, you can download it
12:49:48 <SpComb> well, tools are a separate thing, you could require everyone to install grfcodec to build OpenTTD
12:49:54 <Roest> but you're still not allowed to use it
12:49:56 <dihedral> if you then dont state a license it's simple copyright law applies
12:50:13 <Rubidium> nor do we add zlib, freetype, libpng, libfontconfig, libicu, directx's sources to the svn
12:50:13 <glx> SpComb: most people don't have the right version :)
12:50:25 <dihedral> sure you are - as long as no license is defined for the project
12:50:36 <SpComb> glx: the right version of gcc?
12:50:48 <dihedral> SpComb, in it's source :-D
12:51:00 <dihedral> Rubidium, squirrel? :-)
12:51:13 <Ammler> grfcodec needs also boost, afaik...
12:51:22 <glx> dihedral: for squirrel it's different, we totally embed it in our code
12:52:09 <SpComb> but doesn't OpenTTD compile the language files using a tool compiled as part of the build process?
12:52:34 <glx> yeah that too, it's not OOB squirrel
12:52:35 <SpComb> but whatever, in practice the openttdw.grf probably doesn't change often enough that it really matters
12:52:36 <Rubidium> but that tool isn't quite a 'general purpose' tool
12:52:55 <SpComb> but the principle of "no generated files under version control" holds
12:53:14 <dihedral> Rubidium, i know you change it - i was just pointing out that you have it's source in your svn, but i am aware of it being a different situation
12:53:21 <glx> well .vcproj are generated ;)
12:53:37 <Rubidium> yeah, lets remove the .vcproj
12:53:53 <SpComb> if you used e.g. cmake you wouldn't need to include generated .vcproj's
12:54:05 <Rubidium> actually... remove all MSVC project files; they're all generated with a tool anyway
12:54:07 <SpComb> but I guess you have our own replacement (some kind of generate.sh script)
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12:54:11 <petern> what generated file is in that folder?
12:54:31 <glx> at first bash was needed to generate it, but now we also have a wscript
12:54:44 <planetmaker> Rubidium: just a quick question inbetween as I don't have my dev computer here: is libiconv already a dependency for OpenTTD (on Mac)?
12:55:01 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes-ish
12:55:13 <planetmaker> :) ok, thx. Then I may continue reading there :)
12:55:50 <Rubidium> well, not 100% requirement looking at config.lib
12:56:45 <Rubidium> although... well... OSX doesn't use UTF-8 for it's FS; it uses it's own interpretation of UTF-8
12:57:08 <Rubidium> like MS does for virtually any standard (including their own)
12:57:35 <planetmaker> yeah, it has some peculiarities...
12:57:52 <petern> MS uses UTF-16/UCS2, doesn't it?
12:58:14 <glx> hmm yes, and utf16 is a nice thing ;)
12:58:35 <petern> and i can't believe that people debated using it in ottd...
12:59:04 <glx> without BOM utf16 is unusable
13:00:28 <smallfly> if you used e.g. cmake you wouldn't need to include generated .vcproj's <-- i am not sure, if you talked to me, but i deleted the project file now
13:01:56 <petern> how am i supposed to open it? :(
13:02:09 <petern> vcproj is not autogenerated
13:02:44 <glx> petern: try projects/generate ;)
13:02:58 <petern> glx, not in smallfly's svn...
13:03:09 <planetmaker> I wish for a function like work->generate_thesis
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13:03:58 * Rubidium welcomes the one and only TrueBrain ;)
13:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <dihedral> Roest, where is the difference between 'read access' for all and 'published'? <- having an unreleased film on torrents, you have "read access", but it is not "published"
13:05:10 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, wrt smallfly wanting everybody to be able to read his code, but not wanting to have chosen a license because he was not 'publishing' it!
13:05:44 <TrueBrain> lol @ Eddi|zuHause, glad to see he still has humour ;) Haha :)
13:10:49 <PierreW> any1 knows why the DB Set Trains GRF is shown as "deactivated" after adding it as NewGRF? Using nightly build
13:11:21 <TrueBrain> this aint SMS ... anyone ... how hard can it be ... :s
13:11:52 <SpComb> smallfly: I was referring to OpenTTD
13:11:54 <Rubidium> already loaded train set?
13:12:12 <dihedral> Rubidium, is the reason not usually mentioned?
13:12:12 <Rubidium> ancient buggy version?
13:12:53 <Rubidium> I'm not sure action B existed back then
13:13:05 <Rubidium> even so, lots of grf authors don't use action B
13:13:45 <Ammler> PierreW: show us a screen of your grf list with the details of dbset...
13:14:29 <petern> bah, i left my railtype conversion patch at home :o
13:14:30 <Eddi|zuHause> PierreW: the most common reason is loading it in arctic or tropic is disabled
13:14:42 <TrueBrain> petern: and no remote login? :(
13:14:42 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: write it again
13:14:42 <Rubidium> petern: what? the snow is gone?
13:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the third time is usually better anyway ;)
13:14:55 <petern> TrueBrain: machine is off, so no
13:14:58 <PierreW> ah i already found it, thank you
13:15:44 <petern> anyway, it needs review, cos it uses SlWriteByte/SlReadByte
13:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause> for WoL, you need an active router that you can log in to from the outside?
13:16:04 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: very true :)
13:16:14 <TrueBrain> (or an other machine within the same network ;))
13:16:21 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: does WoWL exist?
13:16:43 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: lol .. invent it ;)
13:17:04 <Rubidium> s/invent/patent/ <- use the right wording ;)
13:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause> is that like PoWL?
13:17:11 <petern> arrr, my laptop is ssh'd in
13:17:22 <petern> can't do anything with that though :o
13:17:43 <TrueBrain> so you left your laptop on at home? :)
13:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> wait, you cannot capture ssh connections from the outside? :p
13:18:13 <TrueBrain> lol, somehow I always read that how the girl in Coupling says that ;)
13:19:50 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
13:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never watched coupling. i have no idea what you are trying to say with that
13:28:28 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you should watch it :) There is no way I can express it in words :)
13:29:30 <Forked> the pause that got out of control..
13:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Forked totally reminds me of Samantha Who, where she has amnesia, and when her parents tell her something from the past, they repeat it again more slowly, because she doesn't get it.
13:30:12 <Forked> anyway, I mixed up the nicks.. the Susan line was ment for TB :)
13:30:35 <TrueBrain> glad you watch it Forked ;)
13:30:42 * welshdragon wants to try upgrading the shared infrastructure patch
13:31:02 <welshdragon> but a;as i don't know any programming languages
13:31:17 <TrueBrain> so that is going to be very very hard I guess
13:31:50 * Swallow knows that IS is being upgraded at this very moment
13:32:10 <Forked> TrueBrain: we've seen it all.. and I gave the complete dvd set to my mom for xmas :)
13:32:27 <TrueBrain> Forked: haha :) Only the last season is bad .. the rest is brilliant :)
13:32:29 <welshdragon> aah Swallow, thank you!
13:32:33 <dihedral> welshdragon, start with learning c#
13:32:34 <Forked> TB: it's a show that needs Jeff.
13:32:41 <TrueBrain> Forked: very much :)
13:32:49 <Forked> well "he" is in the last episode, but..
13:32:51 <welshdragon> now we just need a server to play it on (once it is upgraded)
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13:33:43 <dihedral> welshdragon, i would not be surprised of openttdcoop would host a game on it's dev server ;-)
13:34:12 <planetmaker> but as so often: when it's done ;)
13:34:27 <planetmaker> or at least in state to be tested
13:34:58 <dihedral> Aali has a patch :-)
13:35:27 <planetmaker> yep. It's published in the IS thread even.
13:35:27 <dihedral> should already have the new company and client handling + move and rename patch ;-)
13:36:00 <dihedral> what else could be useful for wwottdgd?
13:36:07 <dihedral> it's all in trunk soon :-D
13:36:08 <Roest> is he just merging with current trunk or also bugfixing?
13:36:11 <planetmaker> wwottdgd/3 just needs a person taking care of / taking charge. Not me this time :)
13:36:26 <planetmaker> well. Both, sort of, Roest
13:36:38 <dihedral> planetmaker, it needs more than one person ;-)
13:36:49 <planetmaker> Too much to do, ammler :)
13:36:54 <Aali> Roest: I take care of any game-breaking issues
13:37:00 <Ammler> well, beside the patch, a nice scenario is also quite important
13:37:05 <planetmaker> dihedral: sure it does. But one person taking the lead
13:37:19 <welshdragon> what is wwottdgd?
13:37:25 <dihedral> world wide openttd game day
13:37:43 <planetmaker> that's the question :)
13:38:09 <welshdragon> Ammler: *sometime
13:38:18 <welshdragon> somewhen diesn't exist
13:38:19 <dihedral> welshdragon, what you want to do?
13:38:30 <dihedral> welshdragon, it does
13:38:40 <dihedral> in our hearts it does
13:38:41 <welshdragon> dihedral: in german english yes
13:39:10 <dihedral> "i have no problems, only the others do"
13:39:26 <Ammler> doesn't matter, just let it happen some...
13:39:56 <Roest> welshdragon but you understood what he wanted to say
13:40:00 <welshdragon> dihedral: i don't know what i would want to do, is there a list of jobs available?
13:40:15 <welshdragon> Roest: yes, dyslexics use it
13:40:26 <dihedral> welshdragon, "when the moon is in the 7 skies, and jupiter aligns with mars..."
13:40:26 <welshdragon> they have to be corrected
13:40:42 <glx> at least now you can easily have 15 companies ;)
13:40:55 <dihedral> glx, and... yes that
13:41:04 <welshdragon> dihedral: ..... nice quote, but not relevant :P
13:41:05 <planetmaker> glx: with 255 clients and 15 companies wwottdgd doesn't need any tweaking in that part anymore :)
13:41:32 <dihedral> and yes - i can think of one addition
13:41:45 <dihedral> autokick "Player" and "force join as spec"
13:41:56 <dihedral> Ammler, we never even hit 55
13:42:10 <welshdragon> dihedral: do you need somebody to be a moderator?
13:42:17 <dihedral> i like the thought of stopping "Player" from joining
13:42:42 <Roest> welshdragon you just got the job of the player renamer
13:42:43 <dihedral> Ammler, planetmaker: what about only chosing grf's from bananas? :-)
13:42:52 <planetmaker> dihedral: I rather would like them only joining spectator. Gives them the chance to change ingame and then join
13:43:00 <welshdragon> Roest: and kicker?
13:43:01 <dihedral> Roest, is possible, is a console command
13:43:05 <planetmaker> dihedral: an idea. Not difficult
13:43:24 <Ammler> dihedral: push MB and OzTransLtd to upload
13:43:31 <Roest> nah kicker is too much authority, you have to earn that first
13:43:38 <dihedral> Ammler, no - no pushing
13:43:42 <dihedral> pushing is never nice
13:44:09 <dihedral> Roest, kicker remains mine :-P
13:44:42 <Ammler> but it should be possible to make a scenario with just bananas, there is much time until then... ;-)
13:44:46 <dihedral> we could check if that skilled scn creator would make a map for us
13:44:48 <Roest> i'd make a list of like 100 degrading names and randomly assign them to people with player as name
13:45:03 <dihedral> Ammler, sure there is time - no date has been set :-)
13:45:13 <Ammler> or maybe wwottdgW instead D
13:45:17 <dihedral> Roest, yes, i did that once
13:45:21 <dihedral> but they never get the same name
13:45:33 <dihedral> each time they join it was a different name, even if it was the same person
13:45:36 <planetmaker> well. there's everything we need on Bananas: train sets, house sets, planes,...
13:45:43 <planetmaker> and special grfs can be uploaded, too
13:46:03 <Ammler> planetmaker: which houses set?
13:46:08 <Roest> hmm so the client needs to be the same version as the server and it needs to write their config
13:46:29 <dihedral> Ammler, and then after calling the event Game Day, and run it for a week, openttdcoop continues to announce each new PublicSercer Game in the forum thread of the Game Day
13:46:58 <dihedral> Roest, based on the same revision ;-)
13:47:07 <planetmaker> Ammler: sorry... the urban... was the monorail - not houses :P
13:47:40 <planetmaker> dihedral: not at all. A new thread for every game at least
13:47:45 <Ammler> the suburbanset ist just something like a orientation fix for default houses
13:48:26 <dihedral> well, i gues one could kindly point bananas out to some grf authors
13:48:33 <Ammler> but at the end, we could also live with them.
13:48:45 <dihedral> and let them know we'd use their grf if it were on bananas for the event, but not if it's not there
13:49:19 <Rubidium> so you're possibly going to mix several house grfs?
13:49:34 <Ammler> Rubidium: we mostly do that already
13:49:46 <dihedral> i never do anything with grf's
13:50:16 <planetmaker> I never had issues with different house grfs...
13:50:49 * dihedral would like to apply one of those to the house he lives in
13:53:20 * TrueBrain hits Conditional Zenith with a big solid wall of bricks
13:55:53 <Ammler> there are still some ideas for wwottdgd-patches/hacks like different climates, region-based newgrfs...
13:56:45 <Rubidium> Ammler: different climates is going to be hard to do properly
13:57:01 <Ammler> that is why I added "hacks" to my line :-)
13:57:36 <Ammler> wwottdgd has also space for "never-trunk" patches
13:57:36 <Rubidium> I dislike such hacks, cause people start whining why it isn't in trunk yet (almost) every day
13:57:42 <planetmaker> let's wait for the regions patch ;)
13:58:06 <planetmaker> I recently read somewhere some rumbles about it :)
13:59:32 <Ammler> well, if you have region based newgrfs, you can "simulate" different climates
14:00:43 <planetmaker> Well... :) Actually there's so many new things recently - they need decent exploit
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14:01:33 <Rubidium> planetmaker: Hebrew town names?
14:02:11 <planetmaker> but I guess no real news on that prior to the weekend.
14:02:26 <planetmaker> it's uncharted territory for me after all
14:03:00 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it's for basically everyone
14:03:42 <planetmaker> Just explaining my slowly-ness :)
14:03:58 <dihedral> Rubidium, we had a wwottdgd event where things were even hardcoded to match the scn we were running :-P
14:04:06 <planetmaker> it's a bit trial and error approach :P
14:04:09 <dihedral> it's ucky, but was a very nice effect for that game
14:07:04 <dihedral> smallfly, you want to contribute to OpenTTD and code in c# ?
14:07:19 <dihedral> then that is for you :)
14:08:51 <dihedral> Ammler, yeah - that was quite neat ;-)
14:09:03 <dihedral> thou having transition tiles would have rocked even more
14:09:11 <Ammler> well, iirc, we didn't use it finally
14:09:34 <Ammler> because the industries in the desert had snow.
14:09:52 <dihedral> and we were not able to replace those tiles
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14:17:33 <planetmaker> that was a TB hack, right?
14:17:50 <Aali> station_cmd.cpp, line 954; a very dead link to sourceforge
14:18:27 *** Hirundo is now known as Swallow
14:18:32 <Belugas> [05:42] <@petern> i had coffee at the time <---- WHAAAAAAAT??????
14:19:56 <planetmaker> hi Belugas. I hope for p3tern that you and him are in different time zones...
14:20:25 <Belugas> hello to those who waved hello to me
14:22:45 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
14:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> something is not right...
14:24:35 * dihedral says thanks, to everybody he said "hello" to, for thanking him
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14:31:26 <Belugas> "So I am not sure where this code is. Which files would I look in?"
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14:39:21 <dihedral> i misread him Belugas ;-)
14:39:27 <dihedral> i also removed my reply
14:40:14 <dihedral> sounded more like a 'this would be a great idea and would like to see someone do it for me' thing to me
14:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "Uhr: 310MHz" <- which idiot translated this thing?
14:41:32 <Roest> tsts idiot seems to be used lightly around here
14:42:31 <planetmaker> lool @ Eddi|zuHause
14:43:17 <planetmaker> Roest: given the context posted it indeed needs a different word...
14:43:21 * welshdragon is playing on Brianetta's Standard Server
14:43:44 <Tefad> historically idiot means someone with profound mental retardation
14:43:48 <welshdragon> but i'm having to tunnel under my competitor's tracks
14:43:56 <welshdragon> and i don't have enough money
14:44:01 <dihedral> Tefad, thankfully we live in different times
14:44:02 <planetmaker> "Takt" or something
14:44:33 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, which window is that in?
14:44:38 <Tefad> dihedral: yeah now we just call people retards instead as idiot lost its 'value'
14:44:53 * dihedral would not call anybody that name
14:44:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the AMD Catalyst Control Center Linux Edition (or so)
14:45:24 <planetmaker> maybe they lost market share as people thought they sell clocks?
14:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> strangely, in the same dialog a few lines below they use "Taktfrequenz"
14:46:21 * dihedral wonders if casio digital watches say "Takt" :-P
14:49:59 <Eddi|zuHause> why would anyone translate "watch" with "Takt"?
14:50:39 <dihedral> why would anybody translate "timing" with "uhr"
14:50:50 <planetmaker> dihedral: the English word is "clock"
14:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "clock" DOES mean "Uhr"
14:51:16 <Eddi|zuHause> just it's the wrong context
14:51:18 <planetmaker> time showing device ;)
14:51:21 <petern> ah, literal translation
14:51:25 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, i makes no sense for the catalyst to use the word with that meaning at all
14:51:46 <dihedral> and people who work there should know that :-P
14:51:55 <petern> maybe the translator was just given "Clock:" to work with, no other context? heh
14:51:55 <dihedral> and at least look at their work before publishing it
14:52:09 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it does, if they pushed it through $generic_automatted_translation_service
14:52:11 <dihedral> probably outsourced too
14:52:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and not proofread it properly
14:52:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, outsourcing german translation to india, great idea ;)
14:52:42 <dihedral> out translators have to look through the entire web interface after translating
14:54:10 <Eddi|zuHause> translation without context is bound to be a bad idea
15:01:38 <Belugas> i'm very surprised by how willing to help people are toward Morgsie
15:05:06 <dihedral> Belugas - stupid questions and kind replies? is that what you mean?
15:05:52 <Belugas> I WOULD NOT SAY STUPID QUESTIONS ACTUALLY
15:06:27 <Belugas> kind replies do indeed fascinate me, since they are patient and numerous
15:06:58 <dihedral> it depends how people ask, and what the discussions background is i'd guess
15:07:07 <dihedral> how people show themselves
15:07:13 <dihedral> (the ones asking the q)
15:09:06 <Belugas> no clue, a simple user from the forums
15:09:14 <Belugas> just keep on asking questions
15:16:42 <dihedral> petern, you could pick a few people out at make the a 'welcoming' team for new players :-P
15:16:51 <dihedral> that would raise the image of the forums :-D
15:17:04 <dihedral> well - to new people at least, not to us here :-P
15:18:44 <Roest> even though you're being sarcastic that wouldn't be too bad, the current "mood" on the forum isn't too friendly to noobs
15:18:58 <dihedral> i was not being sarcastic Roest
15:19:14 <dihedral> i meant that seriously
15:19:58 <dihedral> if someone people took the time to point people to the duplicate posts instead of (only) telling them to search
15:20:04 <dihedral> or ind the correct pages on the wiki
15:22:35 <Forked> mmm.. cargodest+IS .. mmmmmmm
15:26:26 <Ammler> did something recently change chat text color?
15:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> someone else asked that a few days ago
15:27:07 <Aali> there was some kind of bug related to that
15:27:14 <Aali> but it should be fixed now
15:27:27 <Ammler> now like after current nightly?
15:29:35 <DorpsGek> Aali: Commit by rubidium :: r15444 /trunk/src/lang (42 files) (2009-02-11 01:46:09 UTC)
15:29:36 <DorpsGek> Aali: -Fix (r15425): the chat messages gone gray. That gray colour was technically right. The string contained {GRAY}, but due to a latent bug (accidentally fixed in r15425) in the string drawing routing the gray would be interpreted as use palette colour 14, which is a white.
15:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> "accidentally fixed"... lmao :p
15:33:36 <petern> Eddi|zuHause has no arse?
15:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i learned how to put it back on
15:34:15 <petern> well that's convenient
15:34:58 <Belugas> nope.. Yuo Don't know Jesus :)
15:36:01 <planetmaker> just join #hell ;)
15:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... since i installed the new ATI driver, wine does not start any games anymore...
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15:45:54 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, bummer
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15:53:18 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: much easier to keep a tiny win partition for that :-)
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15:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: and reboot? no, thanks
15:57:11 <Ammler> did those games really run proper before?
15:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, for certain definitions of "proper"... yes
15:57:35 <Eddi|zuHause> they ran, and were playable
15:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause> only had a few glitches here and there
16:07:07 <Belugas> so... less games and more time to work your thesis, Eddi|zuHause ?
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16:29:49 <petern> REJOICE FOR I HAVE TEA
16:34:46 *** [sleep]buster is now known as [com]buster
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16:40:52 <welshdragon> hmm, forgotten how to change screens in OSX usnig a terninal
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16:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause> question: is it (meanwhile/still/again) possible to configure whether the "full load" button should do "full load any" or "full load all" by clicking on it?
16:58:03 <frosch123> load_type = order->GetLoadType() == OLF_LOAD_IF_POSSIBLE ? OLF_FULL_LOAD_ANY : OLF_LOAD_IF_POSSIBLE; <- looks like "no"
16:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> imho any of these "quick buttons" should be configurable
17:00:42 <Aali> you could just add ctrl-click for full load all
17:01:27 <frosch123> who needs "full load all"?
17:02:38 <Aali> Eddi|zuHause, apparently
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17:28:32 <Belugas> the magic Ctrl key :)
17:40:11 <rebry> you need fulload if you are transporting gods ;)
17:44:03 <frosch123> never played civilisation?
17:44:20 <frosch123> never learned greek?
17:45:40 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:45:48 <Rubidium> frosch123: in Finland it's called multigamy and multimorpism ;)
17:51:15 <fjb> multigamy? Is that when you play other games beside OpenTTD?
17:53:00 <frosch123> sounds like felony. what is the usual punishment for that?
17:53:29 <Ammler> how is mixing video/openttd called?
17:55:56 <Ammler> sometimes just watching openttd is nice enough :P
17:58:31 <fjb> Hm, being forced to watch the old ai all day long should be enough punishment.
18:01:01 <Ammler> hehe, there should be a noai-AI (how are they called, btw.?) which simulates the old ai ;-)
18:01:36 <|Jeroen|> nah tha old ai is a pain in the arse
18:01:43 <|Jeroen|> a real good ai would be nice
18:02:16 <goodger> we could call it the HBOS AI
18:02:39 *** sigmund_ has joined #openttd
18:02:41 <Roest> actually i never understood the need for an AI in ttd
18:02:45 <goodger> it is programmed to do whatever is worse for itself and for the world in general
18:03:16 <goodger> other names could include the Brown AI, the Blair AI, or the Bush AI
18:03:38 <petern> Stupid One-Eyed Scotsman AI
18:04:25 * petern goes back in time by putting Exquinoxe on
18:04:42 <Ammler> Roest: managing MP companies with no players
18:05:30 <|Jeroen|> better leave the bush one out, it would only blow itself up
18:05:33 <Eddi|zuHause> STR_CONTENT_DETAIL_UPDATE :{SILVER}Das ist ein Ersatz für ein existiernde/s {STRING} <- what happened to genders?
18:08:23 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, chu is the bad translatore of that one ;-)
18:08:42 <Belugas> Suite madame BLUUUUUUE
18:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm preparing a patch, posting it in the forum thread in a bit
18:08:57 <Belugas> gazing in yoyr looking glaaaaaas
18:09:09 <Belugas> you're not a child anymooooooooooooooooooooooore
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18:10:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15448 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp toolbar_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Don't show rail types in selection drop downs if they have no label.
18:25:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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18:31:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
18:33:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15449 /trunk/src/ (command_type.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Rename DC_NO_TOWN_RATING to DC_NO_TEST_TOWN_RATING as that is what it does.
18:37:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15450 /trunk/src/rail_type.h: -Codechange: Remove unused RailTypesByte, unused RAILTYPES_... enum values, and change INVALID_RAILTYPES to be UINT_MAX.
18:39:56 <Belugas> hello mister Nathaniel
18:40:02 <Belugas> yeah, someone said that once
18:41:25 <Lakie> I don't think the trunk would boil all that well?
18:41:47 <Belugas> by the way, Lakie, are you ok with the addition of those climate numbers i've told you yesterday in the specs?
18:42:11 <Belugas> not that i would add them right away, but i am more concerned about putting them in trunk
18:42:15 <Lakie> Well, I don't plan on adding generating custom objects ingame...
18:42:45 <Lakie> (Mainly because I'm too lazy to find the path way and work out how it works when I've got loads of work to do for my course)...
18:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you better sterilise your trunk after you carried away a body in it
18:43:17 <Lakie> For the original types I can't see any issues for OpenTTD.
18:45:12 <Lakie> Will these be usable in the grf code or special cases?
18:46:51 <petern> the printf could become a gamelog entry, perhaps
18:48:35 <Belugas> no special case, that's the idea
18:49:03 <Belugas> use them through the same path ways
18:49:07 * petern ponders committing Eddi|zuHause's patch
18:49:13 <petern> i assume Eddi|zuHause knows german well ;)
18:49:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15451 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:49:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-11 18:46:59
18:49:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 5 fixed, 9 changed by Ludslad (14)
18:49:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 7 changed by planetmaker (1), eddi (6)
18:49:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 5 fixed by alyr (5)
18:49:21 <Rubidium> petern: keep pondering ;)
18:49:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 17 fixed, 2 changed by rindu (2), fanioz (1), adjayanto (16)
18:49:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: persian - 11 fixed, 31 changed by ali sattari (42)
18:51:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15452 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: Add DC_NO_MODIFY_TOWN_RATING.
18:52:11 * petern ponders reverting it and reapplying it :p
18:52:36 <Roest> lots of pondering going on here
18:52:45 <frosch123> petern: I just did that, in one commit :p
18:53:21 * SpComb ponders writing some code
18:53:28 <Alberth> Roest: these are dangerous times, apparently
18:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> after all these years of pondering, i have still no proper translation of pondering ;)
18:54:08 <Alberth> that would ban yourself too
18:54:32 <Eddi|zuHause> on another (german) channel i once banned *.t-dialin.net
18:55:12 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: Contemplating.
18:55:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: not a typical german word either ;)
18:56:12 <Rubidium> petern: doesn't look wrong to me
18:56:28 <frosch123> [19:58] <petern> ponder stibbons <- is not translated either
18:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "Melone" has a double meaning in german, but none of them appear to be related to pondering
19:01:38 <Belugas> evaluating the possibilities?
19:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, that is the meaning, but there is no proper translation
19:05:55 <fjb> leo.org says erwägen, abwägen
19:10:32 <Wolf01> OTTD compiled succesfully, I should try to compile something for mobile now
19:15:25 <el_en> is there something wrong with audio in all versions of s05e04?
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19:33:24 <petern> how does this gamelog thing work?
19:34:41 <Eddi|zuHause> el_en: still with the 1 week late thing?
19:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause> el_en: i know that in my version there was a bit missing from a scene in the middle
19:36:28 <Lakie> I'd say go for it Belugas, though I'm not all that sure about placement of custom objects (considering they are like industries).
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19:46:14 <Belugas> by the way, Lakie, when we're talking about dimensions, we're really talkig about squares, aren't we?
19:46:27 <Belugas> lie 15x15 and not 15X2 or sormthing
19:46:52 <Lakie> I don't think we ever worked out a method for 'irregular' shapes like that.
19:46:58 <Lakie> Well, like an L or something
19:47:17 <frosch123> 15x2 is a rectangle, isn't it?
19:47:28 <Belugas> but a 15x2 is possible, as well as 1X15 and all
19:48:18 <Lakie> As I said, rectangles from 1x1 upto 15x15 are supported.
19:48:43 <Lakie> (Though I never tested nything as large as 15x15 as it seemed rather large on a 256x256 map
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19:53:36 <Eddi|zuHause> thanks for the image
19:56:53 <Rubidium> petern: just summon SmatZ and maybe he'll even write the few lines needed for you
20:08:12 *** energetic has left #openttd
20:08:56 <Darkvater> petern: what is this language!
20:09:03 <Darkvater> there are children present for god's sake
20:09:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15453 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2450](r14613): Founding industries as OWNER_TOWN resulted in unwanted effects.
20:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> goodger is a child
20:12:22 <Darkvater> your physical appearance does not make you a grown-up
20:12:31 <De_Ghosty> i though all the children play coutner strike or sumthing
20:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause> he admitted that himself :p
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20:13:14 <Darkvater> is that from eh... simutrans?
20:13:51 <petern> it is one from there, scaled down to 64 pixel tiles instead of 96.
20:13:59 <Darkvater> that guy's an awesome artist :)
20:14:58 <Darkvater> I want to marry him :P
20:15:06 <Darkvater> then I'll steal all his artwork
20:15:21 <petern> it seems he doesn't want to make a 64 pixel set for ottd though ;(
20:15:32 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: I was told that my love of cola made me seem like a kid. I said that in some territories I was legally a minor, which is true
20:15:36 <goodger> I am by no means a child
20:15:58 <petern> anyone younger than me is a child
20:16:12 <goodger> Sacro: no, the united states
20:16:15 <goodger> and others, I presume
20:16:23 <Sacro> anyone older than me is a pensioner
20:16:27 <Darkvater> petern: that's too bad :(
20:16:39 <Sacro> petern: is your wife younger than you?
20:17:03 <Darkvater> about 6 months ago I wrote a decompressor for simutrans pak files... so I can bask in the glory of all the beautiful artwork :)
20:17:07 <Belugas> waht is best? a child stuck in an adult body OR an adult stuck in a child's body?
20:17:21 <Sacro> Belugas: both sound like paedophilia
20:17:26 <FauxFaux> Depends if I'm the adult.
20:17:37 <Darkvater> oh god, I could cuddle up to hot chicks and they'll all think I'm just being cute
20:17:41 <petern> Sacro, i'm not married...
20:18:03 <Darkvater> child stuck in adult body = retard
20:18:47 <frosch123> [21:20] <Darkvater> child stuck in adult body = retard <- rather pregnant
20:19:32 <petern> Darkvater: yeah, too bad... so we'll just have to do it ourselves ;)
20:19:51 <Darkvater> the chicks part or the graphics part?
20:21:55 <Darkvater> thank you mr obvious ;)
20:21:58 <petern> yeah, i seem to remember a land editing function in it a long time ago
20:22:09 <petern> back then it just used to crash the game though :)
20:22:21 <petern> it got a bit better when tron started working on it
20:23:14 <Darkvater> tron's been mia for a while. straciatella is pretty much dead and last time I spoke with him he was very very busy with school stuff
20:23:42 <De_Ghosty> i wanna play simutrans now
20:23:58 <petern> not unless they've got better rail junctions
20:24:35 <Ammler> does it have rotateable maps?
20:24:37 <Darkvater> last time I tried simutrans it crashed when I shut it down
20:24:43 <Darkvater> and it was an official release
20:25:26 <Ammler> or how do "they" handle things behind cliffs?
20:26:37 <Darkvater> this comic pak reminds me of that japanese game
20:26:45 <Darkvater> or whatever it's called
20:27:09 <glx> but it's not very user friendly ;)
20:27:17 <Darkvater> I haven't said I played it :)
20:27:46 <Darkvater> simutrans isn't user-friendly either..it took me a long, long while to figure out how to build a route
20:27:51 <Darkvater> I don't think I ever did
20:29:00 <goodger> delete improperly placed tiles
20:29:09 <De_Ghosty> is there any free bit in current array?
20:29:47 * Darkvater gives ghosty a free bi
20:30:06 <Darkvater> :O, shiny, simutrans has a new website
20:30:14 <glx> there are free bits, depends for what you need them
20:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the least free bits are in road tiles and house tiles, the most are in water tiles.
20:33:07 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the latter is wrong
20:33:16 <Rubidium> MP_VOID has the most free bits
20:33:54 <Prof_Frink> glx: zeros are free, but ones'll cost ya.
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20:34:54 <goodger> Prof_Frink: you'll be hearing from Mr Adams' lawyers shortly
20:35:14 <Darkvater> we should use all the free bits of MP_VOID for rails
20:37:03 <De_Ghosty> let me rephrase my question
20:37:13 <De_Ghosty> is there any unused bit in current array?
20:37:32 <goodger> Prof_Frink: true. I just wanted to make the point that I had detected your dilbert theft ^_^
20:38:11 <frosch123> De_Ghosty: docs/landscape.html and docs/landscape_grid.html
20:38:21 <Prof_Frink> It's not theft if you have to be told where you stole it from.
20:39:02 <Prof_Frink> And even then have to think about it.
20:39:33 <Prof_Frink> To start with "Mr Adams" expanded to Douglas, and I was fairly sure it wasn't an H2G2 thing.
20:41:18 <Ammler> quote from BaNaNaS: "All this content is available via both this webpage, as via the OpenTTD game client." How do I download it over the webpage?
20:41:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15454 /trunk/src/ (road.cpp road_cmd.cpp town_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#2614]: towns did not know about build_on_slopes in some cases, or made decisions on the 'original' slope instead the slope after applying the foundation..
20:41:59 <Darkvater> while we're at it..
20:42:16 <Darkvater> Rubidium: are there plans of putting a link to bananas from openttd.org? I can't seem to locate it
20:42:17 <TrueBrain> I dislike questions
20:42:31 <TrueBrain> oh no, it is a Darkvater
20:42:52 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Umm, you're on a treadmill.
20:42:55 <Darkvater> and that "latest user screenshot of 0.6.3".. what's up with that?
20:43:05 <Darkvater> 1. it's not clickable and 2. it's not even in the screenshots list
20:43:22 <Rubidium> hmm, that's not (yet) fixed? :(
20:43:22 <Darkvater> it seems to have been left over from the template X designed and never finished
20:43:45 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: treadmill?
20:43:47 <Darkvater> but that screenshot doesn't exist
20:43:59 <Darkvater> and also.... while we're at it :)
20:44:09 <Chrill> there are 0.6 screenshots though
20:44:18 <Darkvater> do you mind if I either myself, or through the forum try and find some *real* 0.6 screenshots?
20:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> last time i checked, that screenshot existed, but from way earlier
20:44:34 <Darkvater> the current ones are not special and not even 0.6 specific
20:44:38 <Rubidium> Darkvater: not at all ;)
20:44:53 <Sacro> Darkvater: might as well make yourself useful
20:45:02 <Darkvater> exactly me point :)
20:45:16 <Belugas> but beware of the wrath of the MB!!! YOU SHALL DEMONSTRATE OPENTTD ONLY FEATURES!!!!
20:45:32 <Darkvater> TrueBrain: could we have <prev and next> buttons when you click on a screenshot?
20:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the downscaled screenshots look weird
20:45:34 <frosch123> Darkvater: I guess no one would mind if you take some for 0.7 while bypassing :)
20:45:37 <TrueBrain> sorry Darkvater, wrong name :p
20:45:48 <Darkvater> it's a pita to browse'em
20:45:49 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: sure .. get a pen and paint them on your screen :)
20:46:04 * Darkvater kicks wildly hoping to hit someone in the groin
20:46:13 *** goodger was kicked by Belugas (guess what I can REALLY DO?)
20:46:21 *** goodger has joined #openttd
20:46:30 <Darkvater> frosch123: better release 0.7 fast then :)
20:46:38 *** goodger was kicked by Darkvater (ok, now me!! yaaay)
20:46:45 *** goodger has joined #openttd
20:46:47 * dihedral wonders whe he was highlighted with the kick....
20:47:02 <Darkvater> high five Belugas !
20:47:16 * dihedral wonders if that 'links' in the social map
20:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause> what's next? Monster kick? Ownage?
20:47:46 <TrueBrain> me ... must ... resist ...
20:47:48 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: multikick
20:48:00 * Darkvater looks the other way for TrueBrain
20:48:03 <Rubidium> moster kick, kick spree?
20:48:32 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: you are right, a <prev and next> would be very useful
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20:48:46 <petern> Eddi|zuHause, HEAD SHOT
20:48:50 <Darkvater> dihedral: hehe, it was a whil ago I saw these graphs :)
20:48:54 <Darkvater> pasky used to make'em
20:49:06 <ProfFrink> OK, who instagibbed my internets?
20:49:25 * Darkvater ponders updating his openttd commit movie
20:49:34 <ProfFrink> TrueBrain: Are you really?
20:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> could someone recreate some of the thumbnail pictures with anti aliasing?
20:49:44 <TrueBrain> ProfFrink: if you want me too
20:49:45 <Eddi|zuHause> they look really ugly this way
20:50:03 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: very ugly
20:50:16 <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: help me find new ones and we'll replace (almost) all of'em
20:50:20 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: so I guess you have something to do ;)
20:50:49 <TrueBrain> I would personally remove all old screenshots ... but that is just me :)
20:50:58 <Rubidium> Darkvater: as long as you keep the photoshopped old PBS screenshot ;)
20:51:05 * Darkvater would kick TrueBrain then
20:51:12 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: you know I like that
20:51:19 <Darkvater> Rubidium: from 0.4? hehe
20:51:56 <Darkvater> I photoshopped most of the screenshots I put up
20:52:10 <Darkvater> for better aesthetic impressions
20:52:43 <TrueBrain> bad bad bad Darkvater
20:52:54 <Rubidium> oh... you didn't fotosoep that one :(
20:53:20 <Darkvater> Rubidium: I did, it was from the shared-tracks version
20:53:30 <Darkvater> just didn't see the double-lights on the signals
20:53:51 * Belugas hugs both of you, TrueBrain and Darkvater. and thanks both of you from distracting me fomr my work@work :P
20:54:13 <Darkvater> Darkvater/TrueBrain 1, Belugas 0
20:54:22 <TrueBrain> Belugas: any time :)
20:54:30 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: <prev and next> are tricky
20:54:33 <TrueBrain> as it is a 'glob' ...
20:54:50 <petern> ah, back when pbs was sucky
20:54:52 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
20:54:54 <Darkvater> for the old website I stored all the images in an array
20:55:03 <petern> i'm so glad i made the executive decision to remove that ;)
20:55:06 <TrueBrain> but this is not the old website .. sigh .. :p
20:55:29 <Darkvater> petern: I definitely agree
20:56:47 <frosch123> Darkvater: what did you cheat into it?
20:57:18 <Darkvater> small cottages in the mountains, buildings, the train at the station, sparks
20:57:24 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: <prev and next> needs some internal rework
20:57:41 <TrueBrain> why would you fake all that :(
20:57:54 <Darkvater> and the fores top-left
20:58:01 <Darkvater> cause it makes it look velly cool
20:58:13 <Darkvater> and it's (almost) possible
20:58:32 <Darkvater> TrueBrain: take your time :)
20:58:44 <Darkvater> I must be a sad person
20:58:49 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: you do know the list of web-related additions is .... long :p
20:58:59 <TrueBrain> (the outstanding requests for it :p)
20:59:05 <TrueBrain> and I am still in a fight with LeaseWeb ..
20:59:10 <Darkvater> but there were times where I opened up this image and just looked at it weekly
20:59:20 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: that _is_ sad ...
20:59:33 <frosch123> hmm, is someone sad that we do not have rocky land near water anymore?
20:59:40 <Darkvater> hey, don't judge me!
20:59:56 <Darkvater> it was the next best thing to being able to play/develop for openttd
20:59:58 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: I never do :p
21:00:11 <TrueBrain> "afkick methode" :p
21:00:16 <Belugas> [16:00] <@Darkvater> I must be a sad person <-- hey... that's MY JOB! Refusing any new features that are pointing to realism!
21:00:41 <Darkvater> I was seriously addicted
21:00:54 <Darkvater> and it's all starting again :)
21:01:11 <Darkvater> TrueBrain: got a list somewhere?
21:01:24 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: in my head :p
21:02:22 <Belugas> ugly dancing queen's head
21:02:23 * Darkvater tosses belugas back
21:02:42 <Darkvater> TrueBrain: damn you're hot!
21:02:51 <Darkvater> wanna go out for a drink sometime?
21:02:52 * Belugas lascively embrases Darkvater
21:04:04 * TrueBrain updates Darkvater's lexer
21:04:32 * TrueBrain updates Darkvater's parser
21:05:08 <TrueBrain> glad we got that out of the way
21:05:38 <Darkvater> I think I zombiefied
21:05:50 <TrueBrain> I HATE ZOMBIE PROCESSES
21:05:58 <TrueBrain> that should fix it :p
21:06:20 <Rubidium> trying to kill the idle process?
21:06:30 <TrueBrain> no, the init process
21:06:35 <TrueBrain> should result in a restart ;)
21:06:37 * Darkvater mumbles someting unintelligble
21:07:04 * Rubidium writes something illegible
21:07:15 <Darkvater> but I'm not intelligent
21:07:32 * TrueBrain removes any and all traces of both Rubidium and Darkvater
21:07:35 <TrueBrain> too expensive words ...
21:07:52 * frosch123 shuts down 127.0.0.1
21:09:09 <TrueBrain> el_en: I like the latter two :p
21:09:37 <Belugas> speaking of video... Darkvater, i THINK your video about the evolution of OpenTTD should not lay deep down buried in the forums infinite pages but on web site instead
21:10:07 <TrueBrain> Belugas: only if he updates it .. say .. weekly? :P
21:11:06 *** BobbySixkiller has joined #openttd
21:11:17 <Belugas> well... weekly.. trunk does not move that much
21:11:26 <TrueBrain> Belugas: twice a month? :p
21:11:30 <Belugas> or maybe... doing eras?
21:11:31 *** TinoDid has joined #openttd
21:11:33 <Darkvater> I'll update it over the weekend I think if I boot into linux
21:11:37 *** glx|away has joined #openttd
21:11:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx|away
21:11:45 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: can you automate it?
21:12:08 <Darkvater> rickH was cheating when he was syncing his branch...huge explosions periodically
21:12:16 *** smeding_ has joined #openttd
21:12:24 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: and my names weren't linked :(
21:12:29 <Darkvater> TrueBrain: most likely, I just have to see if it needs an active X-server or can write directly to file
21:12:48 <Darkvater> you mean TrueLight and TrueBrain?
21:12:51 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: we have X VMs running .. so maybe we can make a small VM which does it ;)
21:12:58 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: anyway, then it can be updated automaticly ;)
21:13:15 <Roest> Rubidium interesting video
21:13:33 <Darkvater> I must ponder on this new revelation
21:13:40 <TrueBrain> Darkvater: good luck with that
21:13:43 <TrueBrain> don't hurt your brain
21:14:42 <Darkvater> good night TrueLight
21:15:05 <Darkvater> for he who is two will rule the one
21:15:16 <TrueBrain> two makes it smarter ;)
21:15:33 * TrueBrain summons back the server
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21:17:15 <TrueBrain> I am good in those things
21:17:24 <Sacro> are you sat with the cable in your hand?
21:17:34 * TrueBrain hacks some other server ...
21:17:38 <TrueBrain> oftc servers are boring
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21:21:07 <Belugas> POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
21:21:15 * TrueBrain things Belugas should concentrate more on his work :p
21:21:33 <Belugas> does it show? I'm fucking exhausted
21:21:36 <StarLionIsaac> you know, little things like that are starting to convince me the ottd devs are undeniably crazy
21:21:38 <Chrill> Sacro, find brianetta for meee
21:21:52 * TrueBrain too ... and girls are annoying ... but okay ... now I am finally home, and watching a nice movie :)
21:21:54 <Sacro> Chrill: he's probably busy
21:21:58 <Belugas> StarLionIsaac, it's the price to pay to be a dev
21:22:05 <TrueBrain> StarLionIsaac: what gave us away?
21:22:27 <Prof_Frink> lalalalalaoohoohoo
21:22:27 <StarLionIsaac> I think it was the randomness that seems to come from both of you...
21:22:44 <TrueBrain> both .. as in 3 people?
21:22:45 <Belugas> you'v got to be crazy
21:22:51 <Belugas> got to have a reeeel need
21:22:56 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Fertilizer.
21:23:01 <StarLionIsaac> heh, yep... even my girlfriend says I'm mad
21:23:10 <TrueBrain> you have a girlfriend?
21:23:11 <Chrill> Someone wanna play some OpenTTD 0.6.3?
21:23:26 <StarLionIsaac> indeed... she's away having dinner at the moment, so I'm waiting for her to get back
21:23:34 <StarLionIsaac> so I can leave the well of randomness here
21:23:34 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Yer mum.
21:23:48 <Belugas> CLOSE THE LAPTOP!!! Don't show her the madness that creeps in here
21:23:51 <TrueBrain> StarLionIsaac: you need your girlfriend for that?!
21:24:05 * Belugas points to Prof_Frink, when talking about madness...
21:24:06 <StarLionIsaac> she helps me keep the sanity I'm losing to OTTD
21:24:16 <StarLionIsaac> I think she's winning at the moment
21:24:21 <Belugas> don't let her meet my wife :P
21:24:36 <TrueBrain> that isn't really nice ;)
21:24:37 * Prof_Frink points StarLionIsaac at the topic
21:24:55 <Sacro> let me see if i can locate my .vdi
21:25:02 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: ^ There
21:25:05 <StarLionIsaac> eh, nuts... in that case, I must temporarily misplace my sanity
21:25:09 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: I can't find it
21:25:17 <Prof_Frink> < Prof_Frink> | No Sanity |
21:25:23 <TrueBrain> that isn't a topic :(
21:25:38 <Prof_Frink> No. It's a KitKat.
21:25:46 <Belugas> and it's not tropic either...
21:25:58 <TrueBrain> in 9 days I am in the snow!!! :) :) :) :)
21:26:41 <Prof_Frink> Actually, I don't. I want nice sunny weather so's the cliffs are dry at the weekend.
21:27:05 <StarLionIsaac> gah, I can't decide... snow, or sun... to freeze or burn in the sun
21:27:50 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Else the Limestone gets a prepended "s".
21:28:39 <Prof_Frink> Of course, if the route's *called* Greasy Chimney, you kinda know what to expect
21:29:06 <StarLionIsaac> I'll bet it's not as greasy as some of the greasy places I used to have to clean
21:29:17 <TrueBrain> StarLionIsaac: please don't talk about your girlfriend like that
21:29:38 <StarLionIsaac> ooh, you're lucky I don't tell her bout that one, she'd tell me to hit ya back for it
21:30:24 <Sacro> right, found a windows 7, windows xp and debian
21:30:33 <StarLionIsaac> she'f probably hit me for not doing anything about it actually
21:30:39 <TrueBrain> Sacro: a Windows 7 vdi? Interesting :)
21:30:43 <TrueBrain> let me know when you find a Mac OS X ;)
21:30:52 <TrueBrain> StarLionIsaac: and again: she should :)
21:30:58 <StarLionIsaac> debian things usualy work on my ubuntu
21:31:25 <StarLionIsaac> TrueBrain: She does - when I forget about something she asks me to
21:31:40 <Sacro> TrueBrain: have one of those too
21:31:44 <TrueBrain> and again ... she should :)
21:31:51 <TrueBrain> Sacro: really? .vdi? As VirtualBox?
21:31:58 <Sacro> i have OSX86 on my desktop
21:32:09 <TrueBrain> pipe it to me please ;)
21:32:27 <TrueBrain> we failed so far to start it .. hangs on startup (pre-startup even)
21:44:43 * davis_ anyone able to recommend me a good mp3 players , 2-4gb , able to play back videos?
21:45:14 <davis_> i should have added the no ipod part :P
21:45:26 * davis_ nothing from apple if possible.
21:46:12 <davis_> ye that was my first wish
21:46:15 <davis_> no shipping to germany
22:05:11 <fjb> 1€ phone with windows mobile. :-)
22:13:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
22:19:25 <el_en> 1€ phone and almost zero monthly bills?
22:20:18 *** glx|away is now known as glx
22:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> in which dream world?
22:24:45 <fjb> No, usual monthly bill which I had to pay anyway. And the new phone was accidently able to play viedos.
22:26:56 <el_en> i guess you pay a lot per minute then.
22:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd totally buy a 1€ phone with no monthly fee and flatrate :p
22:35:02 <Chrill> does desert towns need food or just water to expand?
22:39:20 <fjb> I'm paying about 10€ monthly + about 0,15€ per minute.
22:42:38 <TrueBrain> I can't find where to enable VT-X on my Dell Studio Hybrid :(
22:43:00 <TrueBrain> (why can it be disabled anyway .. :( )
22:47:30 <fjb> Hm, I would look at the BOIS configuration. Oh, you have a labtop?
22:47:52 <TrueBrain> but it isn't in the bios :(
22:48:39 <fjb> Then you lost... almost. Usually it gets disabled by the BIOS. I don't know if the OS can enable it.
22:49:06 <el_en> fjb: i'm paying 0,66€ monthly + 0,07€ per minute.
22:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> in the land of nokia...
22:50:37 <el_en> but admittedly i paid 140€ for my phone, instead of 1€.
22:51:03 <Eddi|zuHause> so, it needs 2 years to pay off...
22:52:30 <TrueBrain> nice .. no changelog ...
22:54:35 <fjb> So that is not that much different. I'm paying nothing at the moment because I didn't take a new phone when I renewed the contract last summer.
22:55:56 <fjb> Why documenting any changes? The customers should be glad to get something new without paying.
23:00:44 <thingwath> demanding customers...
23:02:31 <TrueBrain> in general I like to know WHAT I update before updating ..
23:02:36 <TrueBrain> but that might just be my paranoia
23:04:22 <fjb> In that case I wouldn't buy Dell.
23:04:53 <thingwath> generaly, it's much better attitude than 'I need to have the newest version available" :o)
23:05:34 <TrueBrain> I hate it when google stalls on me :(
23:06:44 <TrueBrain> lol, the bits of changelog I did find: 1.0.4: new CPU, new blabla. 1.0.6: initial release
23:06:53 <TrueBrain> but nothing of 1.0.9 ... weird shit :p
23:07:50 <fjb> You impossibly have paranoia if you are still using google.
23:08:06 <TrueBrain> only for searching the web
23:08:10 <TrueBrain> and only with a limited view
23:08:18 <TrueBrain> but no, I don't use any of the google apps
23:09:26 <fjb> Even searching the web is not the best idea.
23:09:27 <thingwath> as if logs of your google searches were not enough to tell almost everything about you...
23:09:33 <TrueBrain> fjb: give me an alternative :)
23:09:43 <TrueBrain> thingwath: you would be supprised ;)
23:10:20 <thingwath> I used that google search logging feature for a few months and I was genuinely scared, quite a lot.
23:10:57 <thingwath> But yes, I use google search for absolutely everything. When I'm cold, I google for thermoregulator manual.
23:13:19 <TrueBrain> worst usage of google: using it as a spell checker ...
23:14:53 <TrueBrain> I meant the latter of course
23:15:32 <fjb> It's german, but it doesn't log anything.
23:15:54 <TrueBrain> I don't get ixquick
23:16:08 <TrueBrain> they say: we remove your private data withint 48 hours
23:16:14 <TrueBrain> but then I wonder ... why store it at all?
23:18:19 <fjb> Good question. It's new that they do not store your IP at all. Maybe they didn't change the text yet.
23:18:51 <TrueBrain> but I have to say, impressive story they put up :)
23:20:38 <fjb> But they are right about the privacy.
23:21:17 <TrueBrain> bah .. the BIOS update tool doesn't work :p
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23:27:35 <TrueBrain> intel.com now tells me my CPU Doesn't exist ;)
23:28:07 <TrueBrain> ah .. out of the whole serie, this is the only CPU not supported VT-X ...
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23:28:16 <TrueBrain> (as when buying they said it did :p)
23:28:20 <TrueBrain> I WANT MY MONEY BACK NOW! :p
23:28:31 <Sacro> well in the UK that'd be breach of advertising
23:28:39 <TrueBrain> it was a telephone conversation
23:28:41 <Sacro> you can't misinform the consumer
23:28:44 <TrueBrain> I asked him: does it support VT-X
23:28:46 <Dred_furst> hey, is there a way to randomly generate a new map every time a dedicated server resets?
23:28:53 <Sacro> TrueBrain: in the UK you could return it because of that
23:29:05 <TrueBrain> Sacro: I have to proof that fact ... doubt I can
23:29:13 <TrueBrain> and .. after 7 months .. it might be a bit weird ;)
23:29:18 <Chrill> rainforest towns in desert, need anything to grow?
23:29:31 <Sacro> TrueBrain: true, might just be easier to get a new chip
23:29:35 <Sacro> what model is yours exactly?
23:29:43 <TrueBrain> it is not a computer where you can put anything new in ;)
23:29:52 <fjb> Dell always uses the parts with the least number of features.
23:30:05 * Chrill coughs towards Sacro's general direction
23:30:06 <TrueBrain> nah, only when you ask for it
23:30:10 <TrueBrain> I asked for a very cheap computer
23:30:18 <Sacro> Intel VT: supported by all models T5600 or higher (except T5750), and some T5500s.
23:30:28 <TrueBrain> Sacro: as I said :)
23:30:56 <TrueBrain> AMD is a bit better in that
23:31:01 <TrueBrain> enabled by default, and on all new CPUs
23:33:19 <fjb> A friend of mine always buys Dell, middle to upper class models. And always he got a special kind of graphics card that only dell uses. Always a crippled version of the gpu and needs special drivers because of that.
23:34:31 <Prof_Frink> Liquid Metal: supported by all models T1000 or higher.
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23:47:39 <Dred_furst> when can I actually use the random command in a script
23:48:05 <Dred_furst> in SP it tells me I cant use it as its only available to networked servers, then on a server it says it cannot be set whilst the game is networked
continue to next day ⏵
