IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-02-10
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00:01:39 <dihedral> [00:52] * Sacro sits alone in his basket <-- good dog
00:04:43 <dihedral> or you wont get a goody
00:06:43 <Perfk> hmm. I downloaded the GRF's.. do I have to add them all in the NewGRF settings? (there are many :P)
00:06:51 <Sacro> me grrrmbls and curls up
00:07:30 <Ammler> Perfk: no, they will be loaded automatically
00:07:47 <Ammler> (if you have the correct versions)
00:08:22 <Perfk> the correct version.. is that the nightly build? or the one I got from openttd.org's frontpage ?
00:09:13 <Ammler> if the dot on the right side is red, you have the wrong version.
00:09:44 <Ammler> you see the needed version on the details (right of the list)
00:10:41 <Perfk> can't I just download the newest version and it will work on all servers? :P would be nice
00:11:44 <Perfk> Just looked in the servers list.. very few that I can't get into. so looks like iam good for now :)
00:11:48 <Perfk> Thanks for the help guys
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00:13:02 <Ammler> you should be able to join around 50% of the servers with most players with the current stable
00:14:18 <Ammler> nightly server has mostly their own homepage/IRC channel with support to join.
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00:45:30 <energetic> every new question about 064/070 delays it with one day...
00:46:25 <dihedral> energetic, how good you dont know what it's 'soposed' to be release, nor have any influence on that
00:46:33 <dihedral> so you have like no way of telling anyway!
00:50:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r15437 /trunk/src/unmovable_cmd.cpp:
00:50:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Do not run a code section when you already know it is useless
00:50:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Do not rely on a decision based on something that has already been evaluated
01:23:28 <dihedral> NukeBuster, bugs.openttd.org ;-)
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01:34:39 <Rubidium> NukeBuster: if you would've asked what you wanted to ask I could've answered it, but these pseudo-questions are quite pointless. Anyhow, the answer on your previous question (once I've pressed <enter>) is: not anymore.
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02:49:06 <Scuanor> im getting a linkerror with ms vc++ when trying to compile to debugversion fontcache.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol @FT_Done_Face@4"
02:49:11 <Scuanor> can someone help me with that?
02:52:38 <Aali> Scuanor: did you get the openttd_useful package?
02:54:57 <Aali> that's a freetype symbol, are you positively sure that its linking to the right library?
02:56:43 <Scuanor> no, not anymore. im checking it, i may have copied the useful things to a wrong place scratches head
03:01:09 <Scuanor> checked. they were in the right place, the right versions and i set the right pathvariable for them.
03:01:48 <Scuanor> i know :o) that doesnt asnwer your question. i try to find that out now.
03:04:47 <Scuanor> hm, how do i find out, if they are linked rightly?
03:05:19 <Scuanor> errm ,to the right library i meant, sorry.
03:08:38 <Scuanor> uhm... did i say something wrong?
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04:01:10 <glx> Scuanor: you have a path problem, or the wrong libs
04:01:52 <Scuanor> glx: yes, i lack though the knowledge to find out, how to fix it.
04:02:18 <glx> where did you put extract openttd_useful?
04:04:06 <Scuanor> that wasnt your question
04:04:33 <Scuanor> well, actually it was, just the wrong answer
04:05:43 <Scuanor> glx: i put them into a folder i made, which includes the SVN C:\!openttd063source\!MSVC8\vc and there into the correspondending lib and include folders
04:06:07 <Scuanor> ( the pathname isnt fitting, i know, as it is latest SVN, not 0.63)
04:06:54 <glx> and you set MSVC to search them there?
04:07:42 <Scuanor> glx: it is included in the options as searchpath, yes. by specific path, not environmentvariable
04:08:25 <Scuanor> like "C:\!openttd063source\!MSVC8\vc\include" for includes
04:09:01 <Scuanor> by the way, whats the name of "includes"? its not the right term, no?
04:10:50 <glx> so in include you have freetype, unicode and 5 files
04:11:24 <glx> anyway includes are correct else there is compile errors
04:11:39 <Scuanor> glx: actually also everything else. i copied over all needed libs and includes
04:12:24 <Scuanor> i did a cleaned rebuild with debugmode
04:15:18 <Scuanor> the file is at C:\!openttd063source\objs\Win32\Debug\fontcache.obj. and it is a newly created one, so, it isnt really not there. yes, at some time it worked. i am not able to say though, at which point.
04:16:11 <Scuanor> i did not change though folders or pathvariables, just downloaded the SVN
04:17:12 <glx> and you get only one link error?
04:22:24 <glx> I have no problems with vc8 nor vc9
04:23:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15438 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r15434): MSVC performance warning
04:24:04 <Scuanor> it definetly has to do with the fontcache, yes? i read somewhere, that sometimes errors are only appearing in some place, but their origin might be elsewhere
04:24:37 <glx> freetype is used only there :)
04:24:46 <Scuanor> snickers thats funny, just as i am rebuilding i came about that performance warning just some secs ago
04:25:45 <glx> I think the only thing to try is to remove openttd_useful completely and reinstall it
04:26:51 <Scuanor> hm, as i merged it with all the other things, that would be complicated. wouldnt it be the same, if i just copyover it? ( which i did already today )
04:27:07 <Scuanor> or do i need to build freetype meself?
04:28:40 <Scuanor> oh, i can of course delete the whole freetype folder and paste it again
04:29:16 <glx> that can work too as the problem is clearly with freetype
04:29:28 <SpComb> it's starting to be kind of feature-complete now, although the logs don't actually get updated yet
04:30:01 <SpComb> but hopefully I'll be able to replace my old IRC logs soon enough
04:30:09 <glx> I was about to say that ;)
04:33:13 <Scuanor> glx: maybe... maybe i have a pathproblem with a different project that uses a different version of freetype...checking...
04:35:23 <Scuanor> i just corrected it, yes. rebuilding...
04:36:25 <Scuanor> grins funny thing is, i basically have no clue whatsoever about programming, i just do this all to realize a tiny idea i had
04:36:47 <Scuanor> but... in the wake of getting this build and compiled, i learned already quite much
04:37:28 <Scuanor> aaand. voila! no errors. not even that stationcommandwarning Oo
04:37:37 <glx> compiling by yourself is already a good start :)
04:38:30 <Scuanor> which is weird. the first time i build today it wasnt there, the second time it was, now its gone again that warning. oh... no, still there, it just doesnt get displayed in the outputwindow
04:40:13 <Scuanor> hm, now... where to put that exe? in 0.63? or last nightly?
04:40:27 <Scuanor> aka is last nightly the same as the last SVN?=
04:41:49 <glx> anyway time to sleep for me
04:42:09 <Scuanor> thank you very much, glx :o))
04:42:13 <Scuanor> and a good night to you
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07:21:27 <petern> who's preparing for 2009/02/13 23:31:30 celebrations?
08:07:04 <Rubidium> there's not much special about that moment here
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08:13:35 <petern> who's preparing for 2009/02/13 23:31:30 GMT celebrations?
08:22:24 <Brianetta> I celebrated 12:34:56 7/8/90
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08:22:29 <Brianetta> Not much will top that
08:22:50 <Brianetta> I was in north Wales at the time, visiting my mum's parents
08:23:48 <dihedral> so basically your grandparents?
08:23:56 <Brianetta> yes; I was making it more specific
08:24:08 <Brianetta> ruling out my extremely rich grandparents
08:24:44 <Brianetta> I only have one surviving grandparent now )-:
08:25:01 <Brianetta> She's extremely rich
08:26:03 <dihedral> i only ever new my grandparents from my mothers side
08:26:19 <dihedral> they live in Richmond :-P
08:27:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know the grandparents from my father's side. they died before i was born
08:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, that is not entirely true, my grandfather died before that, my grandmother afterwards
08:28:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but i was quite young back then
08:29:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i do have faint memories of a flat with an oven (no central heating)
08:39:31 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, same here - appart from the faint memories :-P
08:39:58 <dihedral> that kid from the post has like 45122 lines in his single (real) source file
08:42:18 <el_en> i have faint memory of seeing my great-grandmother alive.
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08:56:48 <dihedral> odd - my eyes must be going bust... i dont c smallfly very #
08:57:49 <Perfk> Morning all. can anyone tell me what the difference between the Nightly build, and the openTTD build?
09:01:54 <dihedral> Perfk, may i give you a hint?
09:02:08 <dihedral> try comparing release dates of the nightly builds and the sable builds
09:02:44 <dihedral> and while looking at the _nightly_ builds, contemplate why they could possibly be called _nightlies_
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09:15:39 <smallfly> [09:53] <dihedral> odd - my eyes must be going bust... i dont c smallfly very # <-- ;-)
09:16:45 <petern> what is an "openttd build"?
09:19:06 <dihedral> petern, i believe Perfk means a stable build
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09:19:49 <petern> dihedral, never assume ;)
09:21:11 * Rubidium wonders why dihedral didn't send Perfk to the wiki as it is a frequently asked question
09:21:56 <dihedral> Rubidium, i already sent him in here, because i wanted to stop him from asking in my games channel
09:23:01 <petern> hmm, why didn't we ever release 0.6.4...
09:24:31 <DorpsGek> petern: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
09:25:24 <Rubidium> petern: because nobody could be arsed to figure out what to backport, to actually backport and go through the whole release thingy?
09:27:21 <dihedral> Rubidium, just release 0.6.3 as 0.6.4 and say it's a bug fix release :-D
09:27:47 <Forked> * Checking if our users actually read this list
09:28:01 <petern> dihedral: there is one bug fix
09:28:11 <dihedral> well, that's at least not a lie then
09:28:22 <dihedral> is the udp fix in there?
09:28:44 <dihedral> that could be backported (is fairly straight forward :-P)
09:34:05 <dihedral> the one where the game does not send client names in the udp packets anymore
09:34:49 <Rubidium> under what rock have you been living?
09:35:55 <Rubidium> or is there another issue you haven't made us aware of?
09:36:27 <petern> FS#mentioned-once-in-some-IRC-channel-when-nobody-was-around
09:40:13 <dihedral> has that already been released?
09:40:37 <Rubidium> depends on what already means
09:40:55 <dihedral> in any stable release
09:41:28 <Rubidium> yeah, but only since uhm... like 0.6.2
09:42:06 <Rubidium> which is basically the (only) reason why debian lenny has 0.6.2 instead of 0.6.1
09:42:43 <Rubidium> apparantly the bugfixes in 0.6.3 weren't crash fixes
09:43:20 <Rubidium> hmm... actually there are crash fixes
09:43:33 <petern> how's our debian repo going?
09:44:00 <Rubidium> ah well... debian-release denied blathijs' request
09:44:19 <Rubidium> petern: like mempools
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09:44:39 <petern> do mempools still need to be rewritten?
09:45:03 <petern> they've already had been rewritten somewhat since the original...
09:47:36 <Rubidium> I don't quite remember what the issues with the original were that should get fixed by the new one and what's already fixed in the current one
09:48:03 <petern> i think the main thing wanted was sparse pools, but i don't know why anymore
09:48:12 <petern> doesn't seem necessary
09:50:44 <petern> i think since the C++-ization it is no longer needed
09:51:28 <petern> i love bjarni's first comment... when did NPF ever use pools...
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10:10:52 <blathijs> petern: The main advantage of my rewrite was that things are explicitely freed when they are destroyed
10:11:37 <blathijs> petern: The original pools "freed" a station by settion its id to 0 (or something like that), and then allocating a station looped all stations until it found one that has id 0
10:12:17 <blathijs> petern: My rewrite used a chain of free stations so allocation was O(1) instead of O(n)
10:13:03 <blathijs> petern: It also separated the allocation of stations and the allocation of station indexes
10:13:44 <blathijs> petern: Meaning you can use a pool for other things than indexed items (like buckets in a hashmap). This was originally the motivation behind rewriting the pools, since NPF spent quite some time free'ing and malloc'ing
10:15:55 <petern> so basically an internal memory allocator
10:29:54 <blathijs> petern: Yeah, because free and malloc need to work for any size allocation, they are not as efficient as they can be for allocating lots of (small) same sized blocks
10:30:02 <dihedral> blathijs, that sounds pretty awesome
10:30:34 <petern> hmm, well, one improvement i can think of for pools is variable size items, so...
10:31:10 <petern> the SpriteGroup pool is quite wasteful in some cases
10:32:16 <blathijs> petern: If you really need variable sized items, you should probably just use malloc and free
10:32:33 <blathijs> petern: Unless you have a few fixed sizes, then pools might still be useful (but then just a few pools)
10:32:36 <petern> these are pool items anyway
10:34:47 <petern> the smallest item is 2 bytes
10:35:44 <petern> the largest is 24 (or 32 on 64bit) bytes
10:36:55 <petern> even then malloc is also used :)
10:37:52 <petern> Rubidium: does using tinyenumt affect performance?
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10:49:33 <Rubidium> petern: I reckon it might, although technically it should be the difference between int and byte in performance
10:49:50 <Rubidium> where int is whatever the compiler thinks is the best
10:55:42 <TinoDidriksen> And where int is fastest. Using smaller types is rarely a speed gain.
10:57:48 <Rubidium> using tinyenumt whereever you used byte shouldn't be a problem, but I'm not 100% sure about that; you need to look at the assembly differences
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12:36:16 <Gekz> for the first man to demand one
12:37:20 <petern> are yours like bearhugs?
12:38:40 <Gekz> I dont have fuzzbutt anymore
12:38:52 <Gekz> then poured gratuitous amounts of alcohol
12:38:56 <dihedral> "not by the hair on my fuzzy butt butt"
12:38:59 <Gekz> onto the affected area for maximum effect
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12:49:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15439 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2626]: call Vehicle::LeaveStation() before reversing overlength loading train (station triggers were missed, PBS reservation could cause crash)
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13:11:36 <planetmaker> he... seems there are website issues again?
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13:13:17 <FauxFaux> Fixed now, was getting "connection refused" iirc.
13:21:26 <Zahl> can i set the delay until chat messages disappear from screen?
13:23:47 <Zahl> hm ok *digs into source*
13:24:04 <FauxFaux> They're displaed for 10 days.
13:24:43 <Zahl> that kinda sucks if you made days last 20 times longer :P
13:24:54 <FauxFaux> Ah. :P I can't remember why I looked.
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13:58:49 <Sacro> what's with all the (incompatible encoding)
13:58:55 <Sacro> are you not using utf8?
14:02:30 <Sacro> Chrill: what irc client?
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14:42:17 <welshdragon> Chrill: yes, mirc supports utf8
14:44:08 <planetmaker> are there somewhat recent systems which don't support UTF8?
14:48:13 <planetmaker> Rubidium: I never had problems on any of my computers with it... at least somewhat recently. My old windows might have...
14:48:30 <planetmaker> My Mac did (and does again :) )
14:48:37 <Rubidium> then why doesn OSX need iconv when we use UTF8 internally?
14:48:47 <dihedral> Rubidium, osx supports utf8!!
14:49:40 <planetmaker> Rubidium: I don't know iconv. But my text editors, browsers, mail progs, all handle utf8 nicely there. As does OpenTTD :)
14:50:23 <planetmaker> It needs only selecting the proper one afaik...
14:50:24 <dihedral> i have never had an issue like Sacro did with errors due to missing iconv
14:50:41 * dihedral pats Sacro on the head
14:50:51 <Sacro> i have to do --with-iconv=/usr/local
14:51:36 <petern> dihedral misses the point :D
14:51:44 <petern> iconv is needed because OSX *doesn't* support UTF8...
14:52:03 <petern> it has its own special encoding for filesystem stuff.
14:52:28 <planetmaker> hm... well. iconv seems to be part of the standard installation then.
14:54:02 <dihedral> petern, iconv was mentioned, the only time i picked up on iconv in combination with openttd was when Sacro mentioned issues he was having
14:54:28 <planetmaker> anycase I never worried about iconv...
14:54:40 <petern> sacro has lots of issues
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15:54:32 <Roest> only misses one commit tho
15:54:33 <planetmaker> no. vcs.openttd.org is more recent.
15:55:37 <Belugas> whooaaaa.... I see my name on that page o_O
15:56:55 <Belugas> mister dihedral jello
15:58:05 <planetmaker> g'evening from here, too :)
15:59:58 <Belugas> mister planetmaker jello
16:00:39 <dihedral> sounds like indian support center :-P
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16:51:47 <Belugas> i'm pisitively and totally bored
16:52:26 * planetmaker ponders about what would excite Belugas
16:53:09 <planetmaker> Some nice realistic-looking eye candy objects maybe? :P
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16:57:16 <Chrill> Sacro still lost key to standard server Brianetta's?
16:57:21 <Belugas> to get me out of that log-reading job i'm enroled, might be a good start
16:57:56 <Belugas> planetmaker, of course, some gfx for some upcoming feature would be good too, indeed ;)
16:58:53 <planetmaker> hehe. Someone should kick SAC to actually *do* something instead of talking about what she all wants to do
16:59:33 <Belugas> well.. up until support is provided, there is little she can really do :P
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17:01:17 <planetmaker> :P well. I thought there was the possibility at least in TTDP - but that may just be some person talking big about it ;)
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17:03:14 * dihedral can think of a person :-P
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17:05:02 <Belugas> if you think Oskar, no he did not finished the feature. Lakie made it, I'm just not sure if it has been commited. I'm working toward our version currently
17:05:29 <planetmaker> I did not think of Oscar at all :)
17:05:55 <planetmaker> rather a person more active in the forums :)
17:06:03 <dihedral> and i was rather thinking of a "person talking big about it"
17:06:18 <planetmaker> dihedral: that at the same time :)
17:08:16 <frosch123> you mean a special friend of belugas? :p
17:08:44 <planetmaker> hm... I don't know whether he's his special friend. He's a special "lover" of OTTD at least ;)
17:09:04 <frosch123> I think he is the second best friend of belugas after sirkoz
17:09:36 <planetmaker> kind of an accomplishment, eh? :)
17:10:36 <Belugas> ho... you mean the one who is oftenly referenced by two letters? mostly used for specifying a computer essential component?
17:11:06 <planetmaker> I guess you hit dead on target :)
17:11:24 <Belugas> Sirkoz... please... like... "I've got no clue of what i'm talking about but I make sure that what i'm saying sounds absolutely lovely"
17:12:36 <Belugas> MB cold be right about newobjects in patch's trunk, i cannot confirm nor deny. But it should have been noted on wiki's the revision of the commit, and i do not see it
17:13:12 <planetmaker> hm... dunno exactly - fuzzy memory. I thought in one of SAC's threads...
17:13:24 <planetmaker> new objects and stuff
17:15:23 <planetmaker> But I might have gotten it totally wrong. I played TTDP only ages ago in the 90s.
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17:25:52 <planetmaker> I fail to find that, Belugas...
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17:29:12 <Belugas> therefor, it might have not been said at all;
17:30:49 <petern> people assuming again, i guess
17:32:35 <Chrill> server restart, is this a possibility?
17:32:51 <Sacro> I seem to be lacking in a public certificate, I think I'm locked out without it
17:33:25 <Sacro> Yeah, I think I forgot to back it up
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18:19:40 <SpComb> how disruptive would it be if I were to starting operating a separate 'SpBot' nickname (irssi running on a different server) for logging purposes?
18:20:22 <SpComb> probably not apart from !logs
18:21:22 <SpComb> it would just be an irssi running /logs and a /trigger for !logs
18:22:46 <Belugas> could you add "And remember to make a bookmark of this URL" to the logs command?
18:23:29 <SpComb> maybe stick the URL into the topic instead
18:23:39 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Nah, that can be Dorpy's /kick reason.
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18:26:54 <petern> not another irc logging system :/
18:27:04 <SpComb> a replacement for my current one
18:27:24 <SpComb> wasn't there some second one, with a URL in the ChanServ join-channel message?
18:29:44 <el_en> SpComb: indeed, the !logs command should point to firefox and IE manuals about adding bookmarks/favorites.
18:30:36 <Sacro> what about other browsers?
18:30:41 <SpComb> that's more or less why I neglected to continue it for the past month or two
18:31:09 <Prof_Frink> Just go for the simple option. !logs points you out of the channel.
18:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a join message?
18:32:45 <el_en> nothing wrong with someone asking the url now and then, but when it's the same person every day, that's just unnecessary noise to the channel.
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18:34:16 <SpComb> hmm, apparently not anymore
18:34:40 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not since we went away from freenode :p
18:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that was like... 2 years ago?
18:34:50 <SpComb> it used to point to thegrebs
18:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the site of mikegrb
18:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (who is now supposed to appear because of random highlight :p)
18:39:59 <frosch123> "ugly default font":)
18:40:04 <mikegrb> it's never been on join or such
18:41:11 <SpComb> frosch123: that's what it says in the PIL docs
18:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> how does one get that?
18:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not had any problems with windows update in almost 2 years
18:47:28 <Belugas> two years already we are here...
18:47:32 <Roest> that font is hardly any better
18:48:03 * SpComb doesn't know his fonts very well
18:48:20 <Wolf01> I have problems with windows update when it wants to reset my computer
18:48:42 <Wolf01> especially when I say no and it does it when I'm dining
18:48:46 <goodger_> Wolf01: just turn off automatic updates and run it properly
18:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause> more like two and a half year
18:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> my logs start at 12. Aug 2006
18:49:43 <Wolf01> I forgot about it because sunday I needed to restore the comp to factory
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18:50:46 * Prof_Frink installs updates whenever the the little adept notifier tells him to
18:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and apparently, on 23. Jun 2006 i "deinstalled" Windows ;)
18:51:17 * goodger_ installs updates with a cron job
18:51:54 <SpComb> yes | sudo apt-get break-everything
18:52:35 <goodger_> or rather, security updates are automatically installed with a cron job; other updates are installed manually each day
18:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i try manual updates when i get tired of certain bugs, or when i happen to be in YaST anyway
18:54:31 <petern> hmm, ion is, apparently, not installable on ubuntu :o
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18:54:54 <SpComb> petern: I'm running ion3 on ubuntu right now
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18:55:14 <petern> ion3: Depends: liblua5.1-0 but it is not installable
18:55:17 <goodger_> Eddi|zuHause: I didn't know anyone used suse nowadays
18:55:23 *** goodger_ is now known as goodger
18:55:50 <SpComb> petern: I also have the liblua5.1-0 package installed
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18:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no specific (as in non-religious) reason to not use suse (for a generic desktop system)
18:56:39 <Zahl> did the color of chatlines in ottd change from white to gray recently, or am i just stupid?
18:56:54 <Roest> eddi for many people that decission is kinda a religious issue
18:57:07 <Zahl> Eddi|zuHause: the former or latter? :P
18:57:29 <Zahl> i like conversations like that
18:58:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i do, too ;) annoys the people every single time :p
18:58:31 <Zahl> so i guess i have to download the current nightly to find out
18:59:08 <planetmaker> yes and yes it seem to have changed
18:59:23 <Roest> can you play the nightly before dawn?
18:59:54 <Zahl> hm ok cause i think you can hardly read the chat now
19:00:26 <smallfly> my friend dihedral also online?
19:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't there a patch for altered chat display length?
19:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you get the idea that anybody is your "friend"?
19:02:07 <smallfly> was meant ironically
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19:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause> is that like a Floss 47?
19:13:48 <frosch123> don't know, an electron might be an exception from the rule
19:14:04 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: No, more like the GNU/Hurd.
19:14:24 <Prof_Frink> frosch123: No, your rule was wrong.
19:15:27 <petern> Sacro, so are you aware of a free replacement?
19:15:48 <Sacro> Awesome · dwm · echinus · Ion · Wmii · Ratpoison · stumpwm · xmonad · Xerox Star · Windows 1.0 · GEM (2.0 and Later)
19:17:11 <Darkvater> el_en: sir knight to you my dear peasant
19:19:18 <Sacro> so when did Darkvater last commit?
19:22:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15440 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp api/ai_abstractlist.cpp): -Fix: Backup AIObject::GetAllowDoCommand and restore the old value so AIs can't work around it.
19:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few posts which have "(Darkvater)" in them
19:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause> r14684 | glx | 2008-12-17 00:02:22 +0100 (Mi, 17. Dez 2008) | 1 line
19:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause> -Codechange: use SubWCRev object to get version info instead SubWCRev.exe for tortoiseSVN (Darkvater)
19:24:37 <Darkvater> the last "commit" I had my hand in was fixing freetype AA in the nightlies
19:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> r14397 | rubidium | 2008-09-25 01:25:24 +0200 (Do, 25. Sep 2008) | 2 lines
19:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> -Fix: possible buffer overrun, wrong parameter type passed to printf and && where || is meant. Found by MSVC's code analysis (Darkvater)
19:29:25 <Wolf01> reboot (installing developing IDEs, it might take some time)
19:31:34 <frosch123> rebooting after installing an ordinary piece of software... I can remember also having to do such things somewhen
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19:32:21 <Roest> i wonder what he installed, i dont remember having to reboot after installing vs2008
19:32:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i still get the shivers when i think of that...
19:45:14 <NukeBuster> does BaNaNaS autoupdate?
19:46:31 <NukeBuster> so when a new version of content I downloaded is available I should be able to redownload it manually?
19:47:17 <planetmaker> If you play on your own it doesn't matter that much
19:47:33 <planetmaker> And if you play online, you'll get notified that you've missing grfs. So no problem really
19:51:43 * Belugas thinks Darkvater should join the ball and move on commiting... anything
19:53:21 <Belugas> ballroom... where people dance...
19:54:48 <planetmaker> which actually would be a good RL alternative... to any computer related activity
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20:12:45 <Belugas> planetmaker, it seems that yes, newobjects are indeed in patch's trunk
20:13:28 <planetmaker> Did you ask, Belugas ? Or did you find it?
20:14:24 <Belugas> i had some more questions to ask anyway
20:14:58 <planetmaker> :) He. Mostly people don't bite, I guess :)
20:15:04 <Roest> meaning of life and stuff?
20:18:21 <Belugas> climatology, if you really want to know :)
20:20:16 <glx> planetmaker: so you have a working OSX dev env now?
20:20:32 <planetmaker> glx: I'm just testing it. But yes, seems like
20:20:38 <Sacro> i've just installed OSX on my desktop
20:20:46 <Sacro> now to see if my 9800GTX+ will work
20:21:03 <planetmaker> Sacro: is yours a Mac? Or a hackingtosh? :P
20:22:38 <Sacro> Phenom 2 940, 4GB DDR1066, 9800GTX+
20:22:39 <planetmaker> I'll remember that when - if - I buy my next personal desktop pc :)
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20:23:21 <Powerek38> I've just installed the lates nightly and is it normal that no competitor company is launched for the first 1,5 years of gameplay?
20:23:35 <Sacro> planetmaker: check the osx86 wiki and forums for parts
20:23:36 <planetmaker> you have to enable them
20:23:50 <planetmaker> Sacro: I will then :)
20:24:07 <planetmaker> I read a few articles about that. Didn't seem like the easiest of endeavours
20:24:11 <Powerek38> planetmaker: and how do I do that? I've set the maximum number for 14
20:24:25 <glx> you need to get some AIs first
20:24:29 <planetmaker> Powerek38: do you have any AI?
20:24:37 <planetmaker> downloaded via content service?
20:24:42 <Sacro> planetmaker: heh, mostly it's easy
20:24:53 <Sacro> so long as you know what hardware you have and what kexts you need
20:24:57 <Powerek38> planetmaker: some, not all of them
20:25:02 <Powerek38> all right, I'll get all
20:25:02 <planetmaker> Sacro: so... you chose the hardware accordingly?
20:25:11 <planetmaker> Powerek38: not necessary
20:25:27 <planetmaker> start_ai <ainame>
20:25:30 <Sacro> planetmaker: errm, no...
20:25:39 <planetmaker> where ainame is the name of the ai.
20:25:56 <planetmaker> then it's random? :) Thx
20:26:03 <planetmaker> you read minds, glx :)
20:26:16 <Powerek38> ok, now a really silly one: how to access the console?
20:26:24 <glx> well it's random if you didn't configure the start list :)
20:26:42 <Powerek38> many thanks for your help :)
20:26:48 <planetmaker> you're welcome. bye
20:27:17 <yorick> glx: same bug also happens on clean trunk
20:27:42 <petern> yorick: that's your compiler
20:28:53 <Sacro> sigh, graphics card isn't working
20:28:55 <yorick> I am running the latest gcc version available with mingw
20:29:40 <planetmaker> Sacro: that's sad :S
20:29:50 <planetmaker> and much dimishes the joy of playing :D
20:29:59 <lolman> Sacro: define not working
20:30:46 <glx> yorick: the test version?
20:31:01 <planetmaker> then get a stable version, yorick
20:31:08 <yorick> the stable version doesn't compile openttd
20:31:25 <planetmaker> Err... I guess others use it?
20:32:13 <yorick> I was using that, I was told "3.4.5 is broken, switch to newer one"
20:40:37 <planetmaker> hi Darkvater, high priest of ottd ;)
20:41:09 <Roest> Wolf01 that was a long restart
20:42:00 <Wolf01> and now... where I put the files of ottd_useful?
20:42:25 <glx> just extract here somewhere and add paths in VS
20:42:37 <Roest> no put them in the include and libs dir
20:42:55 <glx> my system is easier to update :)
20:43:49 <Roest> i revert or check out a clean trunk so often that i dont like that :)
20:44:21 <Wolf01> do I need all the files or only shared and win32 folders?
20:45:04 <glx> but extracting the zip and set path in VS is the easier way
20:46:23 <Wolf01> I extracted the ottd_useful in d:\msys\home\OpenTTD\Ottd useful
20:46:33 <glx> extract the zip somewhere (you'll get a "OpenTTD Essentials" dir)
20:49:44 <Wolf01> I should add all the subfolders or only the "Openttd essentials"?
20:50:01 <glx> in dropdown you select "include files" and add d:\msys\home\OpenTTD\Ottd useful\OpenTTD Essentials\shared\include"
20:50:38 <glx> and win32\library for "library files"
20:52:16 <Wolf01> and win32\include for include files too?
20:56:53 <Wolf01> there is an error with dmusic "fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'dmksctrl.h': No such file or directory"
20:57:34 <glx> hmm no indeed you don't have directx at all ;)
20:57:41 <Wolf01> maybe I still have 9.0 instead of 9.0c
20:57:58 <Wolf01> ah no, I think I don't have it
21:02:27 <Wolf01> I was trying to open it, but seem that FF is again a bit slow
21:05:38 <Wolf01> whoa 2x500MB... I think I should have them around
21:07:47 <petern> how does OverrideManager work?
21:09:53 <petern> hmm, possibly not what i need
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21:28:49 <Belugas> waht are you look for, petern?
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21:50:22 <Sacro> ze fallen madonna with ze big boobies
21:51:44 <Nite_Owl> What a mistaka to maka
22:07:45 <dihedral> [22:30] <Rubidium> Ze flashing knobs! <- are they undo knobs?
22:09:30 <Aali> aircraft in flight have tile set to 0, should this not be INVALID_TILE?
22:10:04 <Yexo> I do agree INVALID_TILE would be nicer, but there is no real need for it
22:10:56 <Aali> I know, it's just a code style issue
22:10:59 <Wolf01> I need to download the ms platform sdk, if I download the one for windows server 2003 is it the same? the link on the wiki points that one
22:11:04 <Aali> but it did have me confused for a while
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22:30:00 <SmatZ> Aali: I was thinking about that codechange, but I wasn't sure how VehiclePosHash would handle it, and I didn't think about it further...
22:30:25 <glx> Wolf01: windows server 2003 R2 is platform sdk ;)
22:30:59 <Wolf01> ok, I'll try, last time it failed to install
22:31:33 <Aali> I have no idea how VehiclePosHash works or even what it does :o
22:32:06 <glx> it's a very important stuff (used for vehicle collisions)
22:32:45 <Aali> aircraft can't collide though
22:34:01 <SmatZ> of course everything is doable, and I hope to do that once, but not now :-x
22:51:05 <rortom> RoR has nearly the same coding style as ottd now :)
22:52:44 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
23:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> SyntaxError: future feature antigravity is not defined
23:06:50 * goodger supports the banning of munroe from $conference
23:08:24 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: however, in 2.6... :P
23:09:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't try that currently ;)
23:10:55 <goodger> valhallasw: you mean 3.0, surely
23:11:12 <goodger> 2.6 has bugfixes and forward-compatibility backports
23:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "__future__" IS forward compatibility
23:14:39 <valhallasw> goodger: yes and no. I checked it; it's neither in 2.6 or 3.0; only in the trunk :)
23:14:56 *** Combuster is now known as [sleep]buster
23:21:43 <Rubidium> but replacing a seemingly non-offensive word like 'copyrighted game' with something more offensive and saying exactly the same as someone makes people think about the real implications
23:24:10 <petern> hmm, that seems to work
23:24:30 <petern> handling changing order of railtypes in a savegame
23:25:08 <petern> not much help if one is missing, mind you
23:26:11 <Eddi|zuHause> when one is missing, do the same as the "disable elrails" switch?
23:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. convert everything to conventional rail
23:27:30 <petern> ah, but if the rail type is missing, it is quite posible that the vehicles designed for that rail type are also unavailable
23:27:59 <Yexo> petern: not necesarily, if there are seperate rail and vehicle sets
23:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but missing vehicles are handled currently, as well
23:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> why change that behaviour?
23:29:12 <petern> infact, defaulting to normal rail is what happens in my code
23:30:09 <Eddi|zuHause> for the rail, yes. but the vehicles need to get "powered on rail"
23:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... why is this neko guy always bragging about how bad his computer is?
23:31:12 <thingwath> Hm, I'm sorry, but I couldn't find it... what are these rail types good for? :o)
23:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause> how about typing "railtypes" in the search bar of the wiki?
23:32:33 <petern> not simple. railtypes are not saved for vehicles. therefore if the railtype doesn't exist, the vehicles end up with something else as their railtype anyway.
23:32:55 <petern> so if a railtype is missing all you're left with is an index for railtypes on the map with no other infomration
23:32:56 <thingwath> well, I don't understand newgrfs, so that railtypes page is not very useful for me...
23:33:21 <Roujin> eddi: actually what he's doing is bragging about how he has no idea and is immune to help from others...
23:34:25 <Roujin> thingwath: currently there are only four fixed rail types, normal rail, elrail, mono and maglev. petern is working towards being able to define new rail types with newgrfs
23:35:05 <Roujin> that's what it's about..
23:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause> narrow gauge electric rail
23:36:26 <thingwath> will it be possible to make a different voltage systems for elrail?
23:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> narrow gauge rack railways
23:36:50 <rortom> i guess its quite some code to fix up :\
23:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: yes, you can do that, but how would you visually distinguish a 50 Hz from a 16 2/3 Hz system?
23:37:22 <Roujin> making something that is fixed/hardcoded flexible is not an easy task..
23:37:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the only thing that does make sense is separating catenary (often AC) from 3rd rail (often DC)
23:38:03 <Roujin> but I'm positive that he'll eventually be successful :)
23:38:16 <thingwath> I don't know. :) But on the other hand, it's so strange to have 25 kV/50 Hz vehicle on the same track as the 3 kV one...
23:38:20 <petern> it's been working in the hg repo for ages ;)
23:39:18 <rortom> also, why you switched to hg?
23:39:21 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: make the graphics flicker at that speed?
23:39:28 <Roujin> so then you didn't merge it to trunk just for fun? ;)
23:39:39 <thingwath> 50 Hz flicker on 60 Hz LCD display?
23:39:49 <petern> it's the first incarnation, it always needs tidying
23:40:11 <Roujin> but indeed I did not know you already have a working version
23:40:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure the americans actually used a 60 Hz system ;)
23:40:43 <Roujin> does it also have road types?
23:40:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Roujin: do remember that you are talking with peter "i have a patch for that" nelson ;)
23:42:21 <Roujin> petern: aww, no test grf of the sprites andythenorth made for my trails hack then yet :P
23:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: so, can we have speed limits and axle weight limits on railtypes?
23:43:30 <petern> wouldn't take much to add those properties though
23:43:46 <thingwath> does the game have any information about how many axles vehicles have?
23:44:07 <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: no, but the vehicle could get an axle weight property
23:45:19 <petern> then axle load is simple
23:45:33 <petern> number of axles = 2, pretty much :p
23:45:48 <petern> except for steam engines
23:46:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be not as simple, but the weight might be not equally divided amongst the axles
23:46:05 * Rubidium wonders how it works with liquid cargo when the tank is half filled on a slope ;)
23:46:06 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. on steam engines
23:46:16 <petern> there's not enough spread to make much difference on carriages
23:46:21 <thingwath> tank cannot be half filled :o)
23:46:39 <Rubidium> thingwath: ofcourse it can
23:46:44 <petern> Rubidium: realistic gravity!
23:46:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i believe the tank wagons have internal walls
23:46:54 <thingwath> well, yes, it can, but there are internal divisions
23:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause> also minimises the effect of broken wagons
23:47:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "Dää Dröbbeln zäähln!"
23:48:10 <rortom> just redefine gravity :|
23:49:45 <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: i don't think it makes a lot of sense to distinguish empty and full axle weight, if you do that, you also would need to allow for wagons to get 80% load, in order to be used on a lighter track
23:50:10 <Eddi|zuHause> much easier to supply two different wagons
23:54:53 <fjb> Hm, a locomotive switching order comes to my mind then.
continue to next day ⏵
