IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-23
00:02:31 <Yexo> SmatZ: comments?
00:06:00 <SmatZ> Yexo: nothing apart from what I have already said
00:06:24 <Yexo> was there anything you said that I didn't change yet?
00:08:30 <SmatZ> I think "Land" would be better than "Freeform", but apparently I am in minority with that opinion
00:08:49 <glx> freeform means anything :)
00:08:55 <Yexo> I don't really care about "land"/"freeform"
00:08:57 <glx> can be water or land
00:09:31 <SmatZ> you can freeform "water" edges, too
00:09:45 <Yexo> yeah, but those settings are about the generation
00:09:58 <Aali> "Land" may be easier for the translators, but then it's equally confusing in all languages :)
00:10:19 <glx> good point Aali
00:10:49 <glx> though "forme libre" should fit
00:10:50 <Yexo> the strnig is already called STR_BORDER_LAND , so if translators want to translate it with "land", they can
00:10:58 <Aali> and thats a con, I think it should say freeform and atleast not be confusing in english
00:11:31 <Yexo> ok, I'll keep it at freeform for now
00:11:47 <glx> right string id should match string body
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00:12:32 <Yexo> glx: what do you mean? Should I change STR_BORDER_LAND to STR_BORDER_FREEFORM ?
00:13:03 <glx> if the text is "freeform" I think it's better yes
00:14:56 <Yexo> -Feature [FS#2566]: Change the dropdown box where you can choose which edges will be water to 4 pushbuttons (based on patch by planetmaker). <- ok?
00:15:01 <el_en> english only!
00:15:22 <planetmaker> sure :)
00:15:48 <el_en> OED says it is "free-form".
00:17:12 <Yexo> choose or chose?
00:17:26 <el_en> or cheese?
00:18:00 <glx> chose (think of the preterit)
00:18:22 <el_en> what?
00:18:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15212 /trunk/src/ (19 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#2566]: Change the dropdown box where you can chose which edges will be water to 4 pushbuttons (based on patch by planetmaker).
00:18:49 <Aali> perfect..
00:18:56 <Aali> trust the french to know english
00:18:57 <planetmaker> Sweet!
00:19:02 <glx> oups the other one in the list chose, chose, chosen
00:19:17 <Yexo> nice work planetmaker :)
00:19:18 <el_en> Yexo: English only.
00:19:23 <glx> fuck it's choose, chose, chosen
00:19:44 * glx hates irregular verbs
00:19:44 <planetmaker> Thx. But you did at least as much work on it, Yexo. Thanks a lot :)
00:20:15 <planetmaker> el_en: I propose you start communication in your non-native tongue then.
00:20:38 <el_en> planetmaker: Such as English?
00:20:56 <planetmaker> whatever.
00:21:39 <el_en> Eller svenska? Det går också, men inte så många här förstår det.
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00:22:49 <Aali> 4-5 personer? Kanske fler..
00:24:37 <planetmaker> well :) I guess it's a good time to say good night and thanks for all the fish ;)
00:24:46 * planetmaker waves
00:25:02 <Yexo> good night planetmaker
00:25:15 <el_en> good night, mr. slartibartfast
00:28:25 <el_en> where's the preterit in a present tense sentence anyway?
00:30:47 <glx> el_en: I was wrong :)
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00:31:48 <el_en> so human
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00:35:15 <el_en> would anyone believe: help, helped, geholpen
00:35:55 <glx> looks german
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00:39:43 <el_en> but could be an obsolete english form.. though OED doesn't agree with me.
00:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: glx * r15213 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/ -Fix: AI API regression failed for non unicode builds (different format for NULL pointers)
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01:02:24 <el_en> how many of you use a compiler that reports errors and warnings in non-english?
01:07:46 <glx> LC_ALL=C
01:07:54 <glx> LC_ALL=C make
01:08:37 * fjb usually doesn't understand non-english compiler messages.
01:08:55 <glx> btw I use VC2008 express in french, VC2005 express in english, and mingw is english too
01:09:18 <glx> but IIRC in my linux VM gcc is in french
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01:13:53 <el_en> i've been translating gcc into finnish (based on w-ber's initial translation). despite so far incomplete translation, gcc is the only finnish-speaking C compiler there is, afaik.
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01:15:42 <el_en> Microsoft and others certainly don't localize development tools for such a small market, so over the years people have get used to every dev tool being in english.
01:16:17 <el_en> probably finnish-speaking gcc will cause some heart attacks for some people.
01:17:08 <Sacro> right, how to install openttd on OSX
01:17:11 <Sacro> i see no DMG for a start
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01:29:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: glx * r15214 /trunk/src/ai/ai_scanner.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: ignore case for ai/library main script path on windows
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02:01:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15215 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: various MSVC x64 compiler warnings
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02:35:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r15216 /trunk/ (15 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: native support for Transport Tycoon (Original) savegames. Based on SVXConverter's source code and documentation by Roman Vetter
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02:51:47 <Pieman191> its quiet
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02:57:09 <el_en> whose quiet?
02:58:54 <Tefad> YOUR MOTHER.
02:58:57 <Tefad> oh wait
03:01:00 <Aali> el_en: english only
03:01:27 <el_en> el_en: that most certainly was english.
03:01:47 <Aali> english words, maybe
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03:02:22 <el_en> a completely syntactically and pragmatically valid question.
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03:02:38 <Aali> the correct phrase would have been "who's quiet?"
03:02:42 <Aali> thank you for playing
03:02:56 <el_en> no, that means something completely different.
03:03:08 <el_en> that means "who is", not "whose".
03:03:34 <Aali> it does, and it makes sense, your "question" does not
03:04:04 <el_en> my question was a reply to the earlier line.
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03:14:37 <Pieman191> lulz wat
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03:29:09 <nicfer> One question, I've installed the ECS cargo set but I only get the wood sector, how do I activate the others?
03:30:42 <Tefad> nicfer: did you try to enable ECS on an existing game? you have to start with a fresh game
03:30:57 <Tefad> also i think you have to check compatibiities with other gcfs
03:31:12 <Tefad> i mean grf
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03:33:04 <nicfer> I started a new game
03:33:31 <nicfer> I have no other cargo sets
03:34:33 * Tefad shrugs
03:34:39 <Tefad> maybe it's an option in the grf thing
03:35:28 <nicfer> That cargo set is divided in sections
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03:37:53 <nicfer> That's, various grfs
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07:13:19 <Timitry> Wow, that native savegame-support-feature has a lot of code... But couldn't you use TTD savegames before?
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07:34:21 <petern> TTO
07:34:30 <petern> most of the patch was renaming a file :p
07:34:57 <Timitry> Oh, reading might be helpful ;)
07:35:30 <petern> heh
07:35:33 <petern> it doesn't compile for me
07:35:55 <petern> Error 2 error C2666: 'OverflowSafeInt<T,T_MAX,T_MIN>::operator +' : 4 overloads have similar conversions c:\users\peter\documents\visual studio 2005\projects\trunk4\src\saveload\oldloader_sl.cpp 669
07:36:08 <petern> SmatZ :o
07:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause> [23.01.2009 01:35] <el_en> would anyone believe: help, helped, geholpen <- even if you take it german-derived, it still looks weird, because "helped" would indicate weak, but "geholpen" would indicate strong verb
07:59:53 <Eddi|zuHause> (german would be: "helfen, half, geholfen", so it is a strong verb)
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08:15:07 <Tefad> strong.. weak.. what?
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08:28:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Tefad: germanic languages (that includes english) divide verbs in two categories, depending on how the "leading forms" appear
08:29:07 <Tefad> i've never heard of this : )
08:29:18 <Tefad> i know in english we have french words and german words
08:29:26 <Tefad> commence vs begin
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08:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause> weak verbs keep the same vowel in the stem, only the ending changes: "sagen, sagte, gesagt"
08:30:38 <Eddi|zuHause> strong verbs change the vowel: "singen, sang, gesungen"
08:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> in english, the weak form is predominant, which is why the strong forms are usually counted to the irregular forms
08:31:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but german only has a hand full of irregular forms, weak and strong are around 50/50
08:31:55 <Tefad> english has the more irregular verbs than any other language i think
08:32:03 <Tefad> hmm. ignore that the
08:33:40 <Tefad> includes derivative words
08:33:42 <thingwath> maybe because in other languages all verbs are irregular, so they doesn't call them irregular, because they are in fact regular :)
08:34:03 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly what i said, the strong verbs lost their "regularity" status, because they are so few
08:35:53 <Tefad> there's a crapload that have no change in spelling
08:36:22 <Tefad> cast cost cut
08:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause> those are a different case of irregularity, those usually end in "t"
08:36:55 <Tefad> yes different
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08:38:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it's funny, when i google for "unregelmäßige Verben" i get only results pointing to english irregular verbs :p
08:38:50 <Tefad> heh
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08:39:10 <thingwath> same for czech translation of irregular verbs :)
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09:00:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15217 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix [FS#2573] (r15176): more corner cases when removing things from iterated vectors
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09:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause> afaik the distinction into strong and weak verbs first appeared in the "dictionary of the german language" by Wilhelm and Jacob Grimm
09:01:04 <Eddi|zuHause> (those are the same guys that also published the fairy tale collection)
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09:09:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15218 /trunk/src/gfxinit.cpp: -Fix: base graphics detection did mark too much as duplicate
09:10:10 <planetmaker> g'morning
09:10:17 <planetmaker> Rubidium is really fast today :)
09:11:09 <petern> did mark -> marked
09:11:18 <petern> you'll get the hang of it one day...
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09:15:34 <Rubidium> nah, never ;)
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09:18:21 <planetmaker> Rubidium: thx for the comment of flyspray. Makes sense for the AI :D
09:19:28 <planetmaker> Concerning content download when selecting newgrf: my idea is to get shown all newgrf which are currently available for download
09:20:18 <Rubidium> that makes it harder to find the NewGRFs you're missing
09:21:09 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15219 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader_sl.cpp: -Fix (r15216): MSVC failed to find the proper casts.
09:26:56 <planetmaker> hm... you mean: only show those which need update and which you don't have - that'd be a good idea, too
09:27:03 <planetmaker> even better :)
09:27:24 <Rubidium> well, technically only those you don't have ;)
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09:30:39 <planetmaker> he, yeah :)
09:34:59 <petern> hmm, stupid customer...
09:35:13 <petern> want an order list to not be paged
09:35:39 <petern> fine, except the list contains some 10- or 20,000 items
09:38:00 <planetmaker> lool. Well, I remember needle printers with endless paper ;)
09:38:16 <planetmaker> or dot-matrix - however you call(ed) them
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09:47:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15220 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r15216): signedness warning
09:48:50 <petern> heh
09:48:59 <petern> i'd've thought pointer - pointer = size_t...
09:49:02 <petern> but alas...
09:49:13 <Rubidium> pointer - pointer = ptrdiff or so
09:49:18 <petern> *nod*
09:49:33 <Rubidium> but IIRC that doesn't exist on all platforms
09:50:24 <Rubidium> but then ptrdiff + int should yield size_t, but it yields something signed (size_t is unsigned)
09:52:02 <petern> all good fun
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10:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so... where did i put all my TTO savegames?
10:01:02 <petern> i have none
10:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> bigger question... how do i access the ones stored on my laptop, which doesn't have Ethernet?
10:02:22 <FauxFaux> Print them.
10:02:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i tried setting up a direct connection via parallel port once, but that didn't work so well
10:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> does ll5 work in dosbox?
10:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause> or are there linux programs that can interface with lap link V?
10:06:52 <petern> floppy disk?
10:06:53 <petern> usb?
10:07:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the floppy drive on my PC is broken
10:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the laptop does not have USB
10:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> all i have is a parallel connection cable
10:08:15 <dihedral> oi
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10:10:02 <dihedral> Rubidium: are you around some time this afternoon?
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10:11:00 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... should probably disable newgrfs first...
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10:16:12 <petern> heh
10:16:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it's totally impossible to navigate through old savegames if not even the town names are correct...
10:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> weird... i have a non-doubleheaded monorail
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10:20:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15221 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Change [FS#2574]: only show missing NewGRFs when opening the content download window from a NewGRF list and there are missing NewGRFs, otherwise show just all NewGRFs the system knows.
10:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause> cool... a savegame where i was in the middle of conversion
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10:25:30 <Rubidium> dihedral: not sure 'bout that, but there's a chance I'm around
10:26:39 <dihedral> i have a present for ya :-)
10:31:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15222 /trunk/src/script/squirrel.cpp: -Fix: The squirrel stack was corrupted if an AI called any C++ function during Save().
10:32:19 <Rubidium> hmm... iTrojan ;)
10:33:19 <planetmaker> 4.26 + if (c->status != GCS_NOT_FOUND && !HasBit(c->flags, GCF_COMPATIBLE)) continue; <-- Rubidium, I think I'd rather remove the "!HasBit..." or we cannot get newly added newgrf
10:33:28 <Eddi|zuHause> cool... this is the savegame where i have driving-on-right without one-way signals ;)
10:34:03 <Tefad> i thought AI was deviating from squirrel
10:34:55 <Rubidium> planetmaker: huh?
10:35:29 <Yexo> Tefad: the plan was (is) to replace squirrel by nail, but that's still a long way off
10:35:51 <Tefad> nail? yet another obscure scripting language?
10:35:56 <Tefad> is LUA too difficult or something?
10:36:04 <Yexo> NoAI Language
10:36:12 <Yexo> or Not Another AI Language
10:36:23 <Rubidium> lua doesn't call destructors when stuff goes out of scope
10:36:23 <Tefad> naail
10:36:25 <thingwath> hm, how can I open savegame in .directory which is not .openttd? Filedialog shows only .openttd and non-hidden directories.
10:36:35 <Rubidium> only when the GC is ran
10:36:37 <Tefad> Rubidium: so you want garbage collection?
10:36:47 <Tefad> auto garbage collection
10:37:17 <Rubidium> Tefad: no, we want to know (of some variables) when they go out of scope
10:37:44 <Rubidium> as that makes some things a gazillion times easier for the A developers
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10:39:35 <Rubidium> and IIRC lua doesn't do classes
10:48:43 <Eddi|zuHause> a RORO station without one-way signals is very cool ;)
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10:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and that was even long before i even heard of the term "RORO station"
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10:55:12 <Yexo> Rubidium: since very recently (ie somewhere today) the content download doesn't seem to recognise existing AIs
10:55:28 <Yexo> it shows all available AIs without a green mark before them
10:55:39 <Yexo> then in the description it says: "this is an update to an existing AI"
10:55:49 <Yexo> s/update/replacement/
10:56:15 <Yexo> it let me download them, but after closing the window and opening it again, I can download them again
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11:05:02 <dihedral> hehe
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11:05:38 <dihedral> r15209 a password can traverse to another company
11:05:59 <dihedral> if say company 1 is passworded, deleted, and another company created which has the same index then
11:06:10 <dihedral> the company is passworded with the old password!
11:06:21 <petern> "d'oh"
11:06:29 <dihedral> Rubidium: ^ does not look like it was a mistake on my patch ;-)
11:07:42 <dihedral> at least that happens with a reset_company
11:07:57 <dihedral> if that happens with a company that goes bankrupt i dont know
11:12:55 <Aali> thats funny, I noticed the same thing when going bankrupt, way back in r15086
11:13:30 <dihedral> perhaps that is due to _network_company_states[index] not being emptied when a company is deleted?
11:13:47 <petern> good job people report bugs :p
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11:14:23 <Aali> I just assumed it was my fault, it wasn't exactly clean trunk :P
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11:14:37 <dihedral> i did the same
11:14:54 <dihedral> or rather Rubidium did claim that it was my patch (well, it partially was, ok)
11:15:24 <petern> i'll let you off then
11:15:32 <dihedral> thank you
11:15:40 <dihedral> still needs fixing ;-)
11:17:04 <Aali> dihedral: you're working on the new move client patch, right?
11:17:10 <dihedral> yep
11:18:02 <Aali> will it still contain the rcon GUI stuff?
11:18:03 <dihedral> petern: in the code that creates a new company, my i set _network_company_states[index].passwor ?
11:18:14 <dihedral> nope
11:18:22 <Aali> good :)
11:18:29 <dihedral> rcon gui was never from me, nor does it have to do with moving clients around
11:18:59 <Aali> I know, but they are in the same patch from wwottgd/2
11:19:06 <Aali> along with mute
11:19:07 <dihedral> lol
11:19:25 <dihedral> i did not really work on wwottdgd2
11:19:31 <dihedral> i did not put the move patch in there
11:19:44 <dihedral> iirc it was yorky porky
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11:20:08 <Aali> I've been using that patch alot, works just fine :P
11:20:48 <dihedral> ;-)
11:21:02 <Aali> well I gotta go, real life calls, see ya :P
11:21:13 <dihedral> cu Aali
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11:23:04 <mib_o5nhrl> Still WIP, but have a look:
11:26:00 <jerker> mib_o5nhrl: nice!
11:26:18 <dihedral> ...
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11:29:20 <dihedral> petern: src/company_cmd.cpp between lines 815 and 845 a setting _network_company_states[index].password to empty?
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11:54:20 <dihedral>
11:55:51 <dihedral> ^ fixes the password issue
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12:04:02 <SmatZ> _network_company_states[c->index].password[0] = '\0' 8-)
12:04:55 <dihedral> ...
12:06:44 <dihedral> well - if you'd prefer that :-P
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12:10:53 <dihedral> SmatZ: so where's the commit :-D
12:12:36 <petern> never!
12:13:17 <dihedral> is there a better approach?
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12:28:46 <DJNekkid> i did spot a bug in cargodest, not sure how or why, but a station dont give passengers ... and it do have LOTS of houses around it
12:29:37 <DJNekkid> anything known?
12:30:20 <DJNekkid> it's in the h3b244a8f version from 19th desember or something
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12:31:39 <petern> dont -> doesn't, do -> does
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12:32:06 <DJNekkid> sry ...
12:32:08 <DJNekkid> or rather, sorry :)
12:32:21 <petern> afaik nobody is working on cargodest atm
12:32:38 <DJNekkid> so, i guess i should flyspray it?
12:32:51 <petern> well
12:33:14 <petern> assuming you can vehicles carrying passengers doing there, it's probably a dodgy routing cache
12:33:43 <DJNekkid> yes, there is (ofcourse) a route from it with appropriate vehicles
12:33:55 <petern> check the smallmap
12:34:26 <DJNekkid> yup, its "bluelined" :)
12:34:56 <petern> unfortunately the smallmap does not show direction, so it could be just a route to the station, not from it
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12:38:00 <DJNekkid> there is no (no (un)loading) orders
12:38:04 <DJNekkid> a simple A-B route
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12:40:40 <DJNekkid> it do, however, at A have full load
12:41:17 <DJNekkid> but, i have aprox 6 other stations in the same area with the same "go to A (full load) -> go to BIG", "go to B (full load) -> go to BIG
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12:42:36 <angelo> i had the same problem yesterday
12:42:47 <angelo> i deleted the orders and reissued them
12:49:35 <petern> has DJNekkid turned into bjarni? :o
12:50:57 <SmatZ> according to /whois, no
12:51:06 <DJNekkid> lol
12:51:06 <DJNekkid> is that good?
12:51:51 <thingwath> or /whoisnot
12:52:32 <SmatZ> according to /whoisnot, we all are Bjarnis
12:53:08 <dihedral> no
12:53:18 <dihedral> we all are _not_ Bjarnis
12:53:21 <DJNekkid> [ERROR] Unknown command “whoisnot”. :p
12:54:57 <thingwath> We all are.
12:55:32 * SmatZ 's Bjarni-o-meter for dihedral: |===============||=| 98%
12:55:40 <SmatZ> dihedral, you are the most Bjarni of all of us!
12:55:45 <dihedral> that reminds me.....
12:55:46 <dihedral> :-D
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13:01:17 <planetmaker> Hm... I just tested the update / upgrade capability for Openttd for savegames: Creating a savegame with German signals 0.3, deleting the tar file from the search path, retaining the older version 0.21.
13:01:25 <planetmaker> The repository meanwhile has version 0.4.
13:02:06 <planetmaker> Upon load of the game, OpenTTD tells me, that I'm missing the proper grf (that's fine). But then content download won't supply me with the proper grf either :S
13:02:19 <planetmaker> Nor with the newer version. The buttons are all greyed out.
13:02:52 <petern> same grfid?
13:03:02 <planetmaker> yes, I think so.
13:03:20 <planetmaker> It's just signals, no incompatibilities to be expected
13:03:43 <planetmaker> at least bananas only supplies the latest version 0.4 when looking at the website.
13:04:19 <planetmaker> Actually I would expect to have the option to download the exact version the save was made with.
13:04:27 <planetmaker> Or, if not that, the newest, compatible version
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13:04:53 <Rubidium> planetmaker: newer versions aren't compatible per definition
13:05:01 <planetmaker> hu?
13:05:07 <planetmaker> but older are?
13:05:13 <Rubidium> no
13:05:22 <Rubidium> only the exact same version is compatible with itself
13:05:33 <planetmaker> yes. So, I expect to have an offer to download that.
13:05:33 <Rubidium> the rest is just wishfull thinking that they work
13:05:47 <planetmaker> even though it's not latest on bananas anymore.
13:05:53 <Rubidium> planetmaker: what version are you using?
13:06:04 <planetmaker> 15222
13:06:53 <planetmaker> the dot, curiously though, goes green for that grf in the content window.
13:07:06 <planetmaker> but buttons greyed out and text for 0.21
13:07:41 <Rubidium> so version 0.3 isn't downloadable
13:07:47 <Rubidium> it has 0.21 locally
13:07:52 <planetmaker> you have it in the repository, though
13:07:56 <planetmaker> I got it there, afaik
13:08:14 <Rubidium> can't check that right now
13:08:17 <planetmaker> yes, definitely. I removed the tar from the content_download dir
13:08:24 <planetmaker> for testing exactly that :)
13:08:40 <petern> svn diff
13:08:41 <petern> er
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13:09:37 <Rubidium> planetmaker: could you give me the savegame?
13:09:44 <planetmaker> sure. One moment
13:09:55 <planetmaker> it has other grfs, though, too
13:11:58 <planetmaker>,%201930-01-01.sav
13:12:05 <planetmaker> I'll make one with only that grf.
13:12:50 <Rubidium> Yexo: does reverting r15214 fix your AI content download issue?
13:13:57 <Rubidium> planetmaker: that savegame does work exactly as I intend it to work
13:14:05 <planetmaker> hm?
13:14:13 <Rubidium> you're missing the NewGRFs, so it tries to find them
13:14:34 <Rubidium> it finds 2cc and german signals version 3 and the rest isn't in the content system
13:14:47 <planetmaker> Rubidium: I do have all those others.
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13:15:07 <planetmaker> The only thing changed inbetween is the German one. Give me 2 minutes and I demonstrate it only with the signals
13:15:48 <planetmaker> the only thing - which for me at least - needs updating for that game is the GermanSignals
13:18:14 <planetmaker>,%201930-01-05.sav <--- use that one, Rubidium
13:18:36 <planetmaker> only grf needed is GermanSignals v0.3
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13:19:45 <Rubidium> when I don't have it it shows me that I can download that NewGRF, I have to select it and press download
13:20:24 <planetmaker> hm. where?
13:20:37 <planetmaker> after loading the game, in the newgrf settings window?
13:20:43 <planetmaker> or when?
13:20:51 <Rubidium> yes
13:21:04 <Rubidium> load game, get warning, open newgrf settings window, select 'find missing content'
13:21:11 <planetmaker> Doesn't work for me. All buttons except "cancel" stay greyed out.
13:21:34 <planetmaker> hm. Do you have the older version there?
13:21:41 <planetmaker> A compatible one? Or none at all?
13:21:51 <planetmaker> I have 0.21 here.
13:21:56 <Rubidium> no, I've got no NewGRFs at all
13:22:00 <planetmaker> Which it finds and loads as compatible.
13:22:19 <planetmaker> But it shows the grf in the list with a yellow box
13:22:25 <planetmaker> but I cannot update
13:22:28 <planetmaker> either
13:22:37 <planetmaker> shall I give you 0.21 for testing?
13:22:42 <Rubidium> yup
13:23:33 <planetmaker>
13:24:03 <planetmaker> it's here in ~/.openttd/data (or rather, on Mac, ~/Documents/OpenTTD/data)
13:24:06 <Rubidium> ah, okay... something to fix ;)
13:24:14 <planetmaker> :)
13:27:30 <planetmaker> I take it, I can delete those files again. I don't want to illegally distribute files :)
13:28:14 <Rubidium> yup
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13:35:06 <glx> what's the problem with AI content download?
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13:36:01 <Rubidium> planetmaker: nasty bug ;) really need to think about that one ;)
13:36:17 <planetmaker> uh...
13:36:30 <planetmaker> doesn't the savegame know the md5 and grfid?
13:37:38 <glx> oh I see it seems to detect new ones when there is not
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13:41:41 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes, it's stored in the savegame, but when it loads a compatible one the 'local' config is replaced and I'm using the local config to build the list
13:42:08 <glx> Rubidium: my fix is the cause :/
13:42:10 <planetmaker> oh... I see. So... a new entry, I guess, is needed: current and required
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13:42:35 <planetmaker> locally in memory only, of course.
13:45:08 <Rubidium> well... on save the NewGRF gets replaced
13:45:17 <planetmaker> he...
13:45:29 <planetmaker> hm... but how does it then still know that it is the 'wrong' newgrf?
13:46:00 <Rubidium> due to a flag that's set
13:46:07 <dihedral> laters
13:46:42 <Rubidium> but it's possible to reverse engineer the md5sum of the previous GRF
13:46:49 <planetmaker> maybe replace that flag by yet another md5 entry and introduce a IsCorrectMD5() instead.
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13:47:04 <planetmaker> ... well... reverse engineering might be easier then
13:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this is the first time in over a year that i opened the MiniIN
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14:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause> something is wrong with this TTO-Savegame:,%202.%20Apr%201956.png
14:13:52 <Eddi|zuHause> aircraft loading mid-air
14:17:55 <Rubidium> it's refuelling ;)
14:19:16 <Aali> too bad it's loading
14:19:36 <Aali> would've made a great screenshot if it was "unloading" in mid-air
14:21:04 <planetmaker> loool
14:21:39 <planetmaker> All those parachutists ;)
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14:24:12 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: I can't connect :( can you provide a savegame?
14:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll create a flyspray task
14:25:21 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: one could also claim that the plane is parking a bit off the airport on the hillside ;)
14:25:28 <planetmaker> off-road plane :P
14:25:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it just goes ahead when starting
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14:26:58 <planetmaker> petern: Shouldn't you update the channel topic? Your servers seem fine, to me.
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14:27:35 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i find out which file that is?
14:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the saveload window does not say the filename
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14:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> for i in home/sv1/*; do echo $i; hexdump -C -n32 $i; done <- that'll do it, i believe ;)
14:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i hope that was the right one...
14:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> next issue: why are some savegames listed as "broken"?
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14:43:42 <petern> planetmaker: saves doing it if they go down again :po
14:43:53 <planetmaker> :D
14:44:02 <planetmaker> I hear a true optimist speaking there ;)
14:44:40 <Aali> its not like anyone ever reads the topic anyway
14:44:42 <Aali> ;)
14:50:47 <Sacro> Sigh, 2D graphics and Computer Interface Design sucks
14:52:19 <planetmaker> Sacro: design affordable 3D computer screens.
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15:02:11 <petern> pom te pom
15:02:30 <Sacro> indeed you are
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15:03:04 <petern>
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15:04:45 <Rubidium> does that look like a preparation for realistic realisitic realistic acceleration
15:05:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i truely wonder how this game ever worked... without one-way signals, without pre-signals, without path signals...
15:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause> without build on slopes...
15:05:21 <SpComb> OpenTTD physics engine
15:05:27 <dihedral> back
15:05:41 * dihedral is just testing the --disable-network compile with his patch ;-)
15:06:29 <SmatZ> petern: nice it doesn't need savegame bump... I suppose there will be patch enumifying train acceleration models, too
15:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause> right... i remember the central bottleneck of this game now..
15:07:22 <dihedral> ESC[1;31mError: Out of memory. Cannot allocate 2883592 bytesESC[0;39m
15:07:22 <dihedral> openttd: /home/fairplay/openttd/src/openttd.cpp:145: void error(const char*, ...
15:07:22 <dihedral> ): Assertion `0' failed.
15:07:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i couldn't move the HQ
15:07:26 <dihedral> r15209
15:08:09 <Rubidium> dihedral: looks like you've got not enough free memory
15:08:21 <dihedral> i have way more than enough
15:08:28 <dihedral> i have another 300MB free
15:08:38 <Rubidium> then you can't be out of memory
15:08:44 <dihedral> sorry - i have close to 650 free
15:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> baaad... removing an empty depot fails... "train in the way"...
15:09:59 <worldemar> ghostly train...
15:10:28 <SmatZ> huh @ dihedral's problem
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15:10:54 <petern> dihedral: not much we can do if malloc fails
15:11:27 <dihedral> just thought i'd post it ;-)
15:11:32 <petern> you have 650MB free... is that before or after it crashed?
15:11:39 <dihedral> after
15:11:40 <petern> maybe there's a huge mem leak
15:11:42 <petern> however
15:11:43 <dihedral> i am just checking my logs
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15:11:53 <petern> your system would run to a crawl way before then
15:11:55 <SmatZ> it could be "random memory corruption", too
15:12:03 <petern> the OOM killer would happen before malloc failed...
15:12:03 <dihedral> it's a vps
15:12:53 <thingwath> maybe there is not a continuous block of memory
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15:13:24 <petern> thingwath: doesn't matter
15:13:26 <dihedral> everything looks fine at the time of the crash
15:13:34 <petern> (unless the OS is really bad at its job)
15:13:39 <dihedral> ;-)
15:13:49 <dihedral> if it were, most of the other services could not run!
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15:14:29 <planetmaker> thx for r15126, Rubidium :)
15:14:38 <thingwath> who knows what openttd did in it's address space... :-)
15:15:37 <planetmaker> To make me completely happy, it would then offer the option to actually activate that grf right away instead of requiring to re-load the whole game - or offer the dialoge before like "missing newgrf found. Want to check online for them?"
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15:23:52 <g3d> hi, I've been trying for 10 minutes to find out how to build trams... no luck... How do I do that? I have the grf activated (or so I think)...
15:24:41 <Aali> click on "road" in the toolbar and hold down the mouse button
15:25:19 <g3d> wow... thank you Aali
15:25:25 <petern>
15:25:50 <Aali> g3d: you can do that on most of the toolbar buttons
15:26:06 <Aali> and you'll get access to a bunch of other features
15:26:25 <g3d> Aali: yeah, just figured that out, thanks again
15:27:23 <Rubidium> planetmaker: the savegame's already loaded and loading the wrong NewGRF might already have corrupted the game state. So changing the NewGRF and pretending nothing happened doesn't seem to be a good plan
15:27:59 <planetmaker> fair enough... It's also more of a feature request
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15:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause> "Item: Large Bottle of Water is incorrectly generating threat with TSA Agents when held in inventory. We are looking into the issue." <- lmao :p
15:29:25 <petern>
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15:33:36 <planetmaker> most important is that one is able to retreive the proper grfs.
15:33:46 <planetmaker> which now is possible :)
15:35:09 <Eddi|zuHause> err... weird... one of the AIs has cut an (existing, heritage) rail line by placing a bus stop
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15:36:13 <energetic> dhedral: np
15:36:50 <dihedral> ;-) late, hehe
15:36:53 <dihedral> had to think a moment
15:36:53 <energetic> SmatZ: all trains seem to have an order, I do not understand the other bugreport about the presignals.... care to elaborate a bit/.
15:37:01 <energetic> ?
15:37:15 <energetic> :) my house was suddenly full yesterday :)
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15:39:16 <SmatZ> energetic: the train is lost, it is not heading to that station, so it chooses "random" track
15:39:26 <SmatZ> it doesn't know it can reverse in station
15:39:34 <SmatZ> what way should it go?
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15:42:01 <petern> hmm
15:42:08 <petern> where would i put such an enum :o
15:42:22 <petern> bearing in mind settings_type.h needs to include it
15:42:22 <energetic> thanks
15:42:28 <petern> and should i abbreviate stuff...
15:42:42 <petern> TrainAccelerationModelByte train_acceleration_model; ...
15:43:19 <fjb> model_train_acceleration :-)
15:43:19 <Rubidium> you can do switch (byte) { case TAM_SAWYER: ... break; case TAM_REALISTIC: ... break; }
15:43:45 <petern> hmm
15:43:46 <Rubidium> would mean you don't have strict type safety though
15:43:55 <petern> should be good enough, i guess
15:43:59 <petern> then it an go in train.h
15:44:34 <petern> TAM_SAWYER... heh
15:44:48 <SmatZ> train.h includes vehicle_base.h ...
15:44:52 <SmatZ> maybe vehicle_type.h ?
15:45:54 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: your bug is fixed ;-)
15:46:14 <petern> hm
15:46:23 <Eddi|zuHause> right... i think i have come across a few more
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15:50:14 <petern>
15:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... CIA-# dead?
15:52:21 <petern> if not here, then yes
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16:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> AIs seem to have problems with high water maps
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16:40:58 <planetmaker> lol. I give students numbers with two digits accuracy of the mass of jupiter. They return me a moon's orbit down to a single meter...!
16:41:30 <planetmaker> an error of 10^-9... :P
16:41:40 <planetmaker> in relative units. Yeah, sure
16:43:41 <petern> :o
16:45:18 <SmatZ> hehe
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16:59:34 * dihedral will now go and make some apple crumble :-)
17:01:48 <petern> same some for me
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17:05:00 <energetic> at the food factory?
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17:21:43 <fjb> Moin frosch123
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17:22:14 <frosch123> quak fjb :)
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17:32:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15233 /trunk/src/ (sdl.h video/sdl_v.cpp): -Fix (r15231): compilation with SDL broken on win32
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18:01:24 <Roujin> hey guys :)
18:01:31 <Brianetta> hay
18:01:38 <Brianetta> we're hay guys
18:02:00 <Roujin> so you're peasants?
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18:03:52 <Roujin> does any of the devs happen to be working on a filter option for the content list?
18:05:29 <Roujin> because I'm making a patch for that atm.. and if anyone of you is doing the same thing already by chance, I can stop doing something futile.. ;)
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18:07:00 <Roujin> second question is, would you want such a feature?
18:07:05 <Wolf01> hello
18:07:37 <Wolf01> the first was?
18:07:59 <Roujin> see logs:
18:09:20 <Wolf01> ok, yes I want it :D
18:10:27 <Wolf01> <sarcasm>and if I want, also dev want, because all the features I want, soon or later, come in trunk ;)</sarcasm>
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18:14:32 <Roujin> while hacking about in network_content_gui.cpp I found some evidence that it's a nice c&p job of the network game window - some comments still mention "selected server"s and such :P :P
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18:16:48 <petern> why reinvent the wheel?
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18:20:27 <glx> it's usual to base a new window on an existing one
18:23:06 <Roujin> I know ^^ I also heavily borrowed from the network window to get a working text field into the content window.. (without it, I'd never have guessed that I have to change the superclass to QueryStringBaseWindow)
18:24:59 <Roujin> just found it funny to see comments about "selected servers". Maybe also because I wrote them (when a patch about key scrolling in the server list by me got kindly adapted to trunk :))
18:33:40 <Roujin> Oh and I just found a crash source. in OnKeyPress it is not checked if any item is selected at all before trying to toggle it if one presses space.
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18:34:42 <Roujin> checked only in my modified build, and vanilla r15197 though
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18:36:15 <Roujin> but guessing from the source, it should happen in head of trunk, too. Just open the content window, wait until some content is in the list and press space (without selecting anything before). this should cause a crash.
18:37:21 <Yexo> Roujin: it does
18:39:54 <Roujin> since this->selected is initialised with NULL it should do fine to insert a "if (this->selected == NULL) return ES_HANDLED;" there
18:40:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15234 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15176): Crash if you pressed space in the content download window before selecting an item.
18:41:21 <Roujin> or like this, of course :)
18:44:43 <Alberth> patching while you wait :)
18:46:58 <g3d> is documentation for QImage::getScanline() wrong? it says that it returns uchar *, but I'm getting an error that I'm casting away constness when doing reinterpret_cast< QRgb * >( img.scanLine( y ) )...
18:47:23 <Rubidium> huh?
18:47:27 <g3d> or wait...
18:47:54 <g3d> ah sorry, just noticed the second version of getScanline... but still...
18:48:07 <Rubidium> still huh?
18:48:10 <Yexo> g3d: are you sure you're in the right channel?
18:48:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15235 /trunk/src/lang/ (16 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:48:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-23 18:47:35
18:48:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 46 fixed by khaloofah (46)
18:48:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 12 fixed by habell (12)
18:48:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 12 fixed by jpx_ (12)
18:48:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 12 fixed by glx (12)
18:48:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 70 changed by doukas (70)
18:48:26 <g3d> lol
18:48:32 <g3d> heheh sorry guys
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19:14:13 <planetmaker> hm... another issue with content download
19:14:39 <planetmaker> Remove GermanSignals any version from your newgrfs
19:14:56 <planetmaker> And join
19:15:16 <planetmaker> download the grf from the join window, then join the company.
19:15:24 <planetmaker> I immediately desync.
19:15:38 <planetmaker> Next start of openttd it works without problems.
19:16:06 <planetmaker> revision r15233
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19:22:54 <petern> "server is full"
19:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> what is "german signals" anyway?
19:23:27 <petern> some silly grf
19:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i never heard of it
19:23:53 <Aali> its regular signals, except the lights are reversed, green is red and vice versa
19:24:02 <Eddi|zuHause> in how far are they different from the ones in the DBSet?
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19:24:46 <petern> planetmaker: no immediate desync for me
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19:25:31 <planetmaker> strange. Now for me neither.
19:25:41 <planetmaker> But this time I had the old version present.
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19:27:28 <petern> i don't
19:27:47 <planetmaker> are you sure you don't have any version? Now w/o any of them I desynced again
19:28:48 <petern> yes
19:29:05 <petern> i'm using my fresh debian vm install
19:30:24 <planetmaker> ah. Difference: it desyncs, if I _don't_ close the newgrf window. It doesn't desync, if I close it prior to joining.
19:31:09 <planetmaker> I'm on clean trunk, too. Sure
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19:32:01 <petern> ah
19:32:07 <petern> that's nothing to do with content downloading
19:32:17 <petern> that's reapplying newgrfs when you close the window...
19:32:23 <petern> which it shouldn't be doing, heh
19:32:24 <planetmaker> yeah, maybe. I didn't notice that difference before :)
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19:39:12 <planetmaker> I guess I can skip the flyspray entry, petern ?
19:39:38 <petern> if you do it'll only get forgotten about
19:39:48 <planetmaker> ?
19:40:05 <petern> i am not working on fixing it
19:40:34 <petern>
19:40:36 <planetmaker> he... I guess my sarcasmometer needs adjusting :). Ok, I'll post it then.
19:40:37 <petern> ^ people are odd
19:40:45 <petern> no sarcasm
19:41:19 <planetmaker> You honestly don't want a flyspray entry?!
19:41:29 <petern> oh
19:41:30 <planetmaker> for a bug you don't fix now? Hm...
19:41:32 <petern> *sigh*
19:41:42 <petern> *don't* not do :/
19:42:10 <planetmaker> oh... damn logic :P Now I get you ;)
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19:50:29 <fjb> Did anybody attempt to port cargodest to the actual trunk?
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19:51:41 <Rubidium> yes
19:54:16 <glx> who?
19:54:33 <glx> ha yes I treid
19:54:36 <glx> *tried
19:54:55 <fjb> But didn't succeed?
19:54:57 <glx> and failed with the OrderList stuff
19:57:14 <fjb> :-(
19:58:24 <Aali> I tried
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19:58:48 <Aali> and a few bugs aside (which I have fixed now) it worked fine
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20:09:44 <fjb> Oh.
20:11:55 <petern> # my name is chip
20:12:00 <petern> # and i'm different
20:12:09 <petern> # i don't conform, i wear different uniform
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20:53:49 <petern> # that's an orderrrrrrrrr
20:53:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15236 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Rename realistic_acceleration patch option to train_acceleration_model, and change from boolean to value. Don't forget to update your settings.
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20:55:31 <Roujin> hmm, should the player be able to enter multiple keywords in the filter box? (comma seperated)
20:55:51 <Roujin> and if so, should they be ANDed or ORed (I'd say ANDed)
20:56:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15237 /trunk/src/lang/ (42 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Remove string removed in r15236 in other languages.
20:57:29 <Roujin> is anyone actually interested in what I'm doing? :)
20:59:44 <frosch123> comma separated? though I am not involved in the stuff you are dealing with, I would suggest google syntax :p
20:59:49 <planetmaker> Roujin: what and where are you applying regular expressions to?
21:01:03 <Roujin> I'm making a patch that puts a textbox in the content window to enter one (or multiple) key words to filter for
21:01:22 <Roujin> key words as in tags
21:01:58 <Roujin> and imo it should use comma seperated @frosch123, since that's also how BaNaNaS creates them
21:02:20 <planetmaker> ah... the content download window will get a filter option of yours? Nice! :)
21:03:02 <wollollo> comma seperated sounds good to me, ANDed, with some possibility to get it ORed in stead (precede keyword with OR or something)
21:03:05 <Roujin> if the user were allowed to enter multiple tags there, would you expect it to display items that has ALL of those tags, or ANY of those
21:03:10 <Rubidium> Roujin: what? bananas makes a comma separated list?
21:03:47 <Roujin> quote: Tags: (comma seperated field; try to reuse existing tags)
21:04:10 <Rubidium> that's only the way of entering the tags
21:04:17 <Roujin> yes
21:04:33 <Roujin> but it means that a tag cannot include a comma (if I understand it correctly)
21:04:52 <Roujin> unless you allow some sort of fancy escaping for commas inside a tag
21:04:58 <Rubidium> but implicit and sounds okay to me, as long as or/OR can make it well... an or
21:05:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15238 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15236): Missed a file
21:05:43 <planetmaker> What about a checkbox: combine tags with OR / combine tags with AND
21:06:03 <planetmaker> s/checkbox/choice/
21:06:59 <Roujin> Rubidium: you mean one should be able to enter "A or B" and it should be able to parse that and display items that either have A or B...?
21:07:40 <Roujin> then we can't have a tag called "or" ^^
21:08:07 <Roujin> okay, nobody should use such a tag anyway...
21:10:09 * worldemar likes to write long logical expressions with lots of AND, OR, XOR, etc
21:10:43 <petern> what happened to the sign list filter?
21:11:00 <Roujin> I think introducing a parser to understand logical expressions would be over the top here...
21:11:19 <Rubidium> petern: bitrot?
21:11:27 <Roujin> petern: uhm, I don't know.. that one was by someone else
21:12:35 <planetmaker> petern: it still applies to trunk cleanly
21:12:40 <planetmaker> it's Zuu's.
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21:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the prolog way: comma for and, semicolon for or
21:13:08 <planetmaker> but it has no logic in it.
21:13:29 <planetmaker> you start typing and as you type it searches the strings / signs which match your typed string
21:13:51 <planetmaker> logic in the sense of algebraic expressions
21:13:56 <planetmaker> which the user may enter
21:14:14 <planetmaker> but you might build on that, Roujin...
21:15:02 <Roujin> that's kind of what I was aiming for, too..
21:15:22 <planetmaker> then you should definitely have a look at it :)
21:15:35 <Roujin> uh, except that comma seperates tags
21:15:40 <planetmaker> no need to re-invent the wheel, I'd say
21:16:06 <planetmaker> sure :) Needs adaption. But alas.
21:16:16 <planetmaker> Nothing is for free in life ;)
21:16:39 <Roujin> but good suggestion, I'll have a look at it and see what I can salvage :P
21:22:17 <Roujin> hmm, so many little things that could(should)'ve been in a seperate patch...
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21:22:36 <Roujin> that IsQueryWindow function for example...
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21:23:13 <planetmaker> Roujin: do it like Zuu does: use hg queues. That way you _can_ make it seperate patches while having it as one, too.
21:23:25 <planetmaker> Works for my clientside patch-assortment, too.
21:23:37 <Roujin> ah so he did make seperate patches..
21:24:09 <planetmaker> Roujin: well... the filter sign is one. But the widget focus is another... but maybe he has it locally as different. Not sure
21:26:01 <planetmaker> And _you_ might break it down into different ones :P
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21:27:25 <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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21:28:16 <edeca> Hey Nite_Owl
21:28:33 <Nite_Owl> Hello edeca
21:28:59 <edeca> How are you?
21:29:51 <Nite_Owl> Doing Okay - and you?
21:30:24 <edeca> Fine thanks, it's Friday at last!
21:31:05 <Nite_Owl> Finally Friday
21:31:22 * edeca tries to play while drunk
21:32:00 <edeca> Heh, admiralai for me is spending $$$$s creating train stations and never making rails
21:32:05 * edeca wonders if there's an update
21:32:27 <Yexo> v19 is the latest available version
21:33:53 <edeca> I'll check, thanks Yexo
21:34:14 <edeca> Yep, I'm using 19
21:34:23 <edeca> And it seems to create loads of stations but no rail or trains!
21:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> admiral ai seems to suffer the worst from high water
21:35:28 <Yexo> upload a savegame in the forum thread and I'll check
21:35:36 <Yexo> and high water is a known weakness
21:35:58 <petern> i found admiralai struggled with modified building costs
21:36:09 <Yexo> it doesn't check for that either
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21:36:20 <petern> "oh, i'll just build this road here" when building roads is really expensive...
21:36:35 <petern> (ais think like that, yeah?)
21:36:47 <Yexo> they don't have to, they can check how expensive it is
21:36:58 <Yexo> but most don't and assume the values are 'normal', as in, default
21:37:13 <edeca> Yexo: Hm, it might be high water. I'm unsure. I'll upload a game in a bit, if the brandy allows
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21:41:33 <M4rk> r15235 seems to assert when i want to load a heightmap, does anyone else have this problem/is it known?
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21:45:44 <Roujin_> Hmm, I wonder if filtering should be implemented at a lower level
21:45:46 <Roujin_> i.e. GUIList
21:46:29 <petern> filtering engine lists? yes
21:46:57 <Yexo> Mark_: not known afaik, does it happen with every heightmap or just one?
21:47:13 <Mark_> i tried two
21:47:20 <Mark_> one i just created and one that worked before
21:48:02 <Mark_> it also happens with freeform edges off
21:48:03 <Roujin_> but then it would need to be implemented in a generic way, like the sorting.. dunno if I can pull that off
21:48:33 <Yexo> Mark_: I see, working on it
21:48:53 <Mark_> okay, good luck
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21:52:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15239 /trunk/src/ (saveload/ai_sl.cpp settings.cpp): -Fix [FS#2579]: The start date of random AIs was not stored in the config file or the savegame.
21:53:42 <edeca> Hm, I noticed that if you only play for a short time (i.e. 1 year then save & quit) a failing AI doesn't go bankrupt, you just get the warning every so oftne
21:53:48 <edeca> Is that because I need to play for longer?
21:53:58 <edeca> 1 got sold off when I played for a few years
21:55:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15240 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15212): Loading heightmaps resulted in an assert.
21:55:04 <Yexo> Mark_: there you go
21:56:00 <Mark_> wow that's fast :)
21:56:02 <planetmaker> edeca: a company is only bancrupted when it is in the red numbers at the 4th consecutive start of a quartal
21:56:07 <planetmaker> *quartal
21:56:12 <planetmaker> or quater of a year
21:56:28 <edeca> So it takes 1 year (4 * 1/4) or 4 years?
21:56:31 <edeca> I'm confused :)
21:56:36 <goodger> one year
21:56:49 <planetmaker> 1 year where 1st january, march, june and september need be negative
21:57:06 <goodger> though it could technically take up to 15 months - 1 day
21:57:13 <planetmaker> yeah
21:57:15 <goodger> I think
21:57:22 <planetmaker> maybe :P
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21:57:53 <goodger> e.g., you go negative on january 2, and the following march you go bankrupt
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21:59:17 <edeca> And would save/load impact it?
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21:59:39 <Yexo> edeca: it shouldn't
22:00:28 <edeca> OK.
22:00:30 <Aali> if saveload did affect it, you'd get some nice desyncs in MP
22:01:29 <wollollo> the point of the "max distance from edge for oil refineries" setting is to keep oil refineries close to the sea, right?
22:01:41 <wollollo> with freeform edges, that doesn't happen
22:02:19 <wollollo> is that how we want it to be?
22:03:26 <Rubidium> that setting's kinda outdated now
22:04:03 <wollollo> ok, just wondering
22:04:11 <Aali> perhaps its time to add a 0/disabled setting
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22:05:03 <edeca> With ECS, do you need to transport passengers to fishing boats to get any sort of real fish out of them?
22:06:05 <edeca> I get virtually no fish out of them even with >80% service
22:06:36 <edeca> Ah, OK, it just takes a few months :\
22:06:55 <Yexo> edeca: iirc fish production depends on the current month
22:07:02 <Tefad> O_o
22:08:01 <edeca> Yexo: Ah, makes sense. 5 fishing grounds generate 30 tonnes, 1 is generating >400!
22:08:04 <edeca> Odd :)
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22:09:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15241 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (5 files): -Fix (r15027): NoAI API was not aware of certain newindustries 'features'.
22:15:18 <Roujin> well, the GUI part of my patch is done (well, that's the easy one :P)
22:16:14 <edeca> Yexo: Wow, admiralai builds neat tram tracks :)
22:16:49 <Roujin> for the other part I'd either have to make changes to the network stuff, or implement it at a lower level, i.e. the GUIList in a generic way.
22:17:43 <Roujin> the latter one would be preferable, because then it could be reused in all kinds of places.. but right now I can't get myself into doing this.. gonna go sleep early now. maybe tomorrow :)
22:18:02 <Roujin> so good night
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22:18:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15242 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: allow moving clients between companies/spectators by the server and the clients themselves (dihedral)
22:18:30 <dihedral> \o/
22:18:58 <petern> you mispelled his name :(
22:19:10 <dihedral> ?
22:19:16 <dihedral> no he did not
22:19:23 <petern> D ;)
22:19:31 <dihedral> nonofair
22:19:57 <petern> hmm
22:20:05 <petern> realistic acceleration speed limits are odd :o
22:21:35 <petern> also
22:21:58 <petern> they don't take account of shorter wagons
22:22:32 <petern> (i don't know if they should, only that it does take account of number of wagons)
22:25:42 <Eddi|zuHause> what does speed limit have to do with number of wagons?
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22:26:54 <edeca> Lots of wagons = very bloody heavy?
22:27:00 <petern> number of wagons is used as a distance for curves
22:27:16 * edeca goes to bed
22:27:40 <petern> it means shorter wagons get an advantage on tight bends
22:27:55 <petern> as it thinks the bend is longer
22:27:59 <Sacro> shorter wagons would have a better turning circle
22:28:08 <petern> yes but not faster
22:28:50 <Rubidium> shorter wagons usually means lower speeds ;)
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22:30:31 <petern> Error 1 error C2446: ':' : no conversion from 'CompanyByte' to '' c:\users\peter\documents\visual studio 2005\projects\trunk4\src\toolbar_gui.cpp 235
22:30:39 <petern> yes
22:30:42 <petern> a new type called ''
22:32:27 <dihedral> uhoh
22:33:14 <Rubidium> nothing a simple cast can't solve, right?
22:34:24 <petern> to what where?
22:34:51 <petern> (int)_local_company i guess
22:34:53 <Rubidium> int?
22:34:59 <petern> compiles with that
22:35:35 <Wolf01> 'night
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22:35:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15243 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2446]: rejoining a server would abort the join (and kick the client) because trying to join with an invalid player ID
22:36:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15244 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_industry.cpp: -Fix (r15027): The station tile of an oilrig-like industry is not neccessarily the first industry tile.
22:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... apparently i have 64.046 busses
22:40:31 <goodger> huzzah
22:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause> at least according to the autoreplace window
22:40:45 <glx> you play with an AI :)
22:41:18 <Sacro> hmm
22:41:23 <Sacro> can someone do seen Bjarni
22:41:38 <Sacro> I don't quite know how to do an 'at' symbol in osx terminal
22:41:54 <glx> Sacro: @ <-- take it
22:41:55 *** vraa has quit IRC
22:41:56 <petern> you press the @ key
22:42:07 <Sacro> petern: i don't have a key with that symbol
22:42:17 <Sacro> @seen Bjarni
22:42:17 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 0 days, 3 hours, 13 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <Bjarni> hi Wolf01
22:42:19 <Sacro> hmm
22:42:29 <Sacro> I can't make the osx build
22:42:31 <Sacro> ld fails
22:42:36 <Sacro> 0.6.3
22:42:42 <glx> you followed the wiki?
22:44:09 <Sacro> yup
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22:44:17 <Sacro> have xcode and fink
22:44:20 <Sacro> installed libpng3
22:44:25 <Sacro> ./configure, make
22:44:34 <glx> ld fails on what?
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22:47:26 <Sacro> rebuilding now
22:51:18 <Sacro> Undefined symbols:
22:51:18 <Sacro> "_iconv_open", referenced from:
22:51:18 <Sacro> FS2OTTD(char const*)in unix.o
22:51:18 <Sacro> OTTD2FS(char const*)in unix.o
22:51:18 <Sacro> "_iconv", referenced from:
22:51:21 <Sacro> convert_tofrom_fs(void*, char const*)in unix.o
22:51:23 <Sacro> convert_tofrom_fs(void*, char const*)in unix.o
22:51:37 <Sacro> actually, don't i need freetype or somesuch
22:51:42 <Rubidium> so you're missing iconv
22:52:39 <Sacro> Rubidium: apt seems to say I have it
22:53:02 <Prof_Frink> and -dev?
22:53:06 <Sacro> yep
22:53:08 <Sacro> and -bin
22:53:44 <Sacro> hmm, unix.o
22:53:50 <Sacro> should that be built on osx?
22:53:58 <Sacro> how come there's no DMG anyway
22:54:14 <Rubidium> cause it's a propriatary format
22:54:25 <Sacro> so?
22:54:33 <Sacro> isn't exe too?
22:54:55 <Rubidium> Sacro: please tell me how to make a dmg on a NON-OSX system
22:54:56 <glx> exe is an nsis installer
22:55:16 <Rubidium> and nsis installer is open source software
22:55:19 <glx> we have a compiler for it
22:55:20 <svip> Isn't that the reason you have Belugas or was it the other B guy?
22:55:40 <glx> it's Bjarni
22:55:45 <svip> Yeah, that guy.
22:55:49 <svip> He should do it.
22:56:12 <glx> and if we require Bjarni for a release, we can wait for some time ;)
22:56:21 <svip> How come?
22:56:30 <Rubidium> @seen Bjarni
22:56:30 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 0 days, 3 hours, 27 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <Bjarni> hi Wolf01
22:56:32 <Prof_Frink> Just tell all the mac users to get a real computer.
22:56:42 <Rubidium> svip: ^^ he's here like every day and such...
22:56:48 <Yexo> and at that time he only said hello and left
22:57:01 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: wish i had actually
22:57:01 <Yexo> last time he was really here was weeks before that
22:57:08 <Sacro> i do like the look of the 10 inch aspire one
22:57:33 <Prof_Frink> You aspire to a 10 inch one?
22:57:55 <energetic> dihedral?
22:58:17 <dihedral> here
22:58:32 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: yes :(
22:59:21 <Nite_Owl> a 10 inch pianist is rather short
22:59:29 <planetmaker> Yexo: I've got an admiral here which built two stations, tracks inbetween and did nothing more...
22:59:31 <Rubidium> Sacro: I'm still waiting for the how-to on making a dmg on a NON-OSX system
22:59:43 <Yexo> planetmaker: anything in the ai debug panel?
22:59:44 <Prof_Frink> Nite_Owl: <insert xkcd here>
22:59:44 <planetmaker> is there a way to check whether it's still alive?
22:59:46 <dihedral> energetic, ?
23:00:02 <energetic>
23:00:30 <planetmaker> where / how do I get the AI debug panel, Yexo?
23:00:36 <energetic> are you suggesting here that cargodest has different competition resource division code as opposed to the current 063?
23:00:46 <Yexo> under the red question mark (rightmost item in toolbar)
23:01:52 <Sacro> Rubidium: i'll look around
23:02:08 <planetmaker> it's still alive.
23:02:10 <energetic> (i speedread the cargodest info i could find about competition in cargodest, but I did not find any words on this)
23:02:21 <Yexo> planetmaker: how much money does it have left?
23:02:26 <Sacro> Rubidium:
23:02:35 <dihedral> energetic, have you played cargodest?
23:03:09 <energetic> only slim yet. I have only played it single player, so I have not yet touched the competition part of it
23:03:16 <planetmaker> cash - loan: 216258 - 290000
23:03:30 <planetmaker> from its console
23:03:45 <planetmaker> I'm playing with 2cc and egrvt in 1939 now
23:03:51 <planetmaker> in arctic
23:03:57 <Yexo> should be no problem
23:04:00 <Aali> 2cc trains are expensive
23:04:03 <energetic> maybe I should do that instead of ask :+
23:04:03 <Rubidium> oh... patched Apple binaries
23:04:09 <Yexo> although it has trouble with the higher cost of electric rails
23:04:15 <Rubidium> well, kinda binaries ;)
23:04:30 <planetmaker> I'm making huge money with planes :P
23:04:36 <Yexo> planetmaker: how expensive is the best (highest speed available) train for the route it wants to build?
23:04:41 <dihedral> energetic, cargodest is pretty demanding imo
23:04:55 <dihedral> you'll get huge amounts of cargo / passengers piling up
23:05:03 <dihedral> and you need to manage the amounts
23:05:09 <dihedral> and not just take them 'anywhere'
23:05:15 <dihedral> but bring them to where they want to go
23:05:37 <energetic> yes, i alreayd noticed that. I made a quick network with 4 towns, but I have not given it very good attention yet
23:05:40 <dihedral> it will have an influence on your rating
23:05:45 <Yexo> planetmaker: don't forget to include the price of as many wagons as fit in a 4-tile station (the wagon with the highest capacity is choses, ignoring wagon length and price)
23:05:49 <dihedral> it will have an influence on 'delegation'
23:06:01 <planetmaker> most expensive engine is 450000+wagons
23:06:12 <Kurt> the rating-part is interesting, dihedral ;)
23:06:12 <Kurt> did you touch the code?
23:06:14 <dihedral> however, cargodest hast not undergone development recently
23:06:17 <Yexo> it tries to build that one, fails, and waits for more money
23:06:17 <Kurt> (for rating)
23:06:28 <planetmaker> but you get good value engines for as little as 50000+wagons at ca. 3000 each
23:06:32 <Yexo> because it's probably the first route it'll fail,but it doesn't have a check for that
23:06:51 <dihedral> Kurt, if you have 8K passengaers waiting at a station, wanting to head to small stations in the town (bus stops, e.g.)
23:06:56 <planetmaker> it will want to buy most expensive engine?
23:07:03 <dihedral> you will hardly be able to take care of new cargo
23:07:08 <Yexo> no, the fastest engine
23:07:29 <Yexo> price is not taken into consideration
23:07:33 <energetic> well, the experience I have is that at a certain point most players know exactly the tricks on how to keep the ratings at the best possible level. So the interesting thing for me is: "what happens with resource division, when the ratings are optimal for all competitiors? based o what are the resources divided among the players?"
23:07:54 <dihedral> yes - those tricks dont apply
23:07:56 <planetmaker> k. It's the best in all categories :) power, speed, TE... - by factor of 2 in average
23:08:11 <dihedral> cargo gets on trains that will bring it to its destination
23:08:13 <planetmaker> but factor of 8 in price ;)
23:08:15 <dihedral> you cannot control that
23:08:33 <Yexo> planetmaker: I'll fix that one day
23:08:48 <planetmaker> :) Would be nice.
23:08:57 <planetmaker> I thought it was the most challanging one :)
23:09:13 <Aali> dihedral: to be fair, you can control exactly which destinations they can choose from
23:09:29 <dihedral> yes - but the service you provide
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23:09:59 <dihedral> but using a truck that full loads at the same station it drops off again, just to keep rating up, will be a no-go
23:10:02 <dihedral> should at least
23:10:23 <energetic> truckpushing :)
23:10:23 <Aali> actually, thats worse in cargodest
23:10:34 <Aali> you can have a truck loading that will never get any cargo
23:10:42 <Aali> and you'll still get rating
23:11:20 <dihedral> then that should be considered a bug, not a feature :-P
23:11:21 <energetic> but if two player have both optimum ratings on the same destitination - who gets assigned what resources? both 50%? or 80/20% as in the current system?
23:11:44 <energetic> and what about a 3rd, or 4th player?
23:11:46 <Aali> energetic: cargodest doesn't change the rating system at all
23:12:10 <energetic> right, so in that aspect it will still be the same.
23:12:25 <petern> so, er, did newgrf's ability to decide which engine/wagon to buy get implemented?
23:12:30 <petern> (i assume not)
23:12:34 <dihedral> i am just saying that it has influence on it, over some odd corners
23:12:35 <Aali> if you set up a simple 1-to-1 route, everything will work the same as in trunk
23:12:35 <dihedral> :-P
23:12:50 <dihedral> yes, true
23:13:16 <dihedral> was not thinking of 1:1 routes
23:13:32 <energetic> okay
23:13:52 <Aali> but if you dont control your network properly, you'll end up with all passengers wanting to go infra-city and profits will suck
23:14:00 <Yexo> petern: no, because the current callback only supports 8 bit values
23:14:04 <energetic> only the way the ratings are calculated is different and based on the destination/source of the cargo. Which seems logical and a nice sweet feature to me :))
23:14:13 <Aali> no
23:14:25 <Yexo> and I didn't exactly get much help trying to get a improved callback implemented
23:14:27 <Aali> ratings are exactly the same
23:14:32 <Aali> one rating per cargo type
23:14:46 <Aali> not per route (as it ought to be)
23:14:57 <Yexo> petern: <- latest proposal for a new callback
23:15:11 <energetic> per route rating implies a lot of maths going on in the cargodest engine
23:15:35 <energetic> at least a whole lot of keeping track code
23:15:57 <Aali> and thats probably why it hasn't been implemented :)
23:16:10 <energetic> those are my words :)
23:16:25 <energetic> but cargodest seems impressive to me
23:17:34 <petern> can't read that, what's the jist?
23:17:57 <petern> whats wrong with the existing callback?
23:18:31 <Yexo> CB18? 1) it returns 8bit values for EngineID
23:18:39 <petern> ahh
23:18:57 <petern> sleepy ieme
23:18:59 <Yexo> 2) for road vehicles and ships you can only do 'check', not 'get'
23:18:59 <petern> time
23:19:26 <Aali> is there a reason for GRF's to tell AIs what to build except for eyecandy/special consists?
23:19:34 <Yexo> hmm, 2) also holds for the train engines is seems
23:20:00 <frosch123> Aali: a lot newgrfs restrict what trains can be build, e.g. length, wagon combinations, ...
23:20:19 <frosch123> the callback shall help the ai to build valid trains
23:20:21 <Aali> which is what I meant by special consists :)
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23:21:14 <Yexo> 3) the current callback can only return 2 engine ids, 1 for the engine and 1 for the wagon
23:21:15 <Aali> all the other data is available to the AI right? (capacity/speed/TE etc)
23:21:45 <Yexo> that means it can never propose a train with a caboose wagon for example (like nars requires for human players, but not for AIs)
23:21:57 <planetmaker> let's see how it will behave, if I build the train for AdmiralAI :)
23:22:14 <frosch123> however, yexo: variables 80..ff can only be bytes, and you should not replace the existing callback, but add a new type to callback 18.
23:22:15 <Yexo> planetmaker: it'll fail to detect that train
23:22:21 <planetmaker> uh?
23:22:34 <planetmaker> well. But it will make money. And then go with that.
23:22:37 <Yexo> planetmaker: it'll not do anything with that new train I think
23:22:45 <Yexo> maybe it will though
23:22:52 <planetmaker> Well. I gave it orders. So...
23:23:51 <Yexo> frosch123: I know, but there is not much point in trying to implement it properly if there won't be support from newgrf authors anyway
23:24:32 <frosch123> yeah, that's the usual problem. they only complain when it is done :)
23:24:32 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd: /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTDx/trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp:550: CommandCost ReplaceChain(Vehicle**, uint32, bool, bool*): Assertion `ret.Succeeded()' failed.
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23:25:04 <frosch123> (note: I did not meant that to be a special newgrf author property, it applies to a lot more)
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23:25:55 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: TTO/TTD savegame?
23:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
23:26:59 <Yexo> I'd still like to see that callback implement (in some way), but it's currently very low on my todo list
23:27:00 <frosch123> one of your wagons has a speed != 0, sell it before moving to a new row
23:27:00 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: dup of ...
23:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd: /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTDx/trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqapi.cpp:665: void sq_pop(SQVM*, SQInteger): Assertion `v->_top >= nelemstopop' failed.
23:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> when trying to load the autosave
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23:27:38 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: known :) but not reported I think
23:28:13 <frosch123> does that assertion only show up for TTO/TTD savegames? or was it also triggered by others?
23:28:13 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: can you upload that autosave?
23:28:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it worked now... strangely
23:28:36 <frosch123> Yexo: fs2576 contains one
23:29:01 <Yexo> frosch123: for the second assert? (the one in squirrel code?)
23:29:16 <frosch123> Yexo: yes, but I guess it was fs2561
23:29:30 <frosch123> does not happen every time though
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23:29:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i could upload mine, but i guess it is very messy :)
23:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> an AI has gone bankrupt recently, if that helps
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23:38:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15245 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix: don't "save" the NewGRF settings on closing the NewGRF window when the content of the window isn't editable
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23:40:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15246 /trunk/src/misc.cpp:
23:40:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2577]: close all windows *before* starting a new game/loading a game
23:40:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: instead of doing that as one of the latest steps of loading the game. This
23:40:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: caused, in some cases, the NewGRF settings to be reset when the game was already
23:40:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: loaded resulting in instant desyncs when joining a network game
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23:47:16 <Nite_Owl> time to fly - later all
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23:57:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15247 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Change: show a lock near the password/join button in the company window whenever the company is password protected
23:57:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15248 /trunk/src/saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp: -Fix [FS#2561]: we require v->cur_speed to be zero for wagons and non-front engines
23:57:39 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: ^^
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