IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-18
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00:06:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15134 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15126): not selecting dependencies when pressing "select update"
00:11:41 <SpComb> bah, mail clients are not the penultimate evolution goal of software programs
00:17:31 <Aali> so I set basecosts 2A, 2B and 2C but the running cost of my trains have not increased, where could I have gone wrong?
00:25:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be forbidden to change basecosts...
00:26:08 <Aali> err, I'd like my OTTD to be atleast somewhat challenging
00:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it should be like that in itself
00:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the changes you did might be overwritten by another newgrf
00:29:10 <Aali> I put my basecosts grf last for that very reason
00:29:37 <Aali> hmm, I'll try another trainset
00:30:11 <Ammler> Aali: most newgrfs use already a higher basecost
00:30:25 <Ammler> you might have done the opposite and lowered it :-)
00:30:34 <Aali> nope, checked for that too
00:31:41 <Aali> oh, got it to work, nevermind :P
00:32:06 <Aali> grf parameters with leading zeroes get mangled somehow
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00:42:42 <Aali> Ammler: hey, you wrote that other basecosts mod, didn't you?
00:43:18 <Aali> dunno what it was called, its in the grfpack :P
00:43:48 <Belugas> everyone likes to change basecost
00:44:05 <Aali> what does it modify and how much can you configure using grf parameters?
00:44:23 <Ammler> Aali: the wikipage about should still exist
00:45:08 <Belugas> 'cmon man... it's so easier to just ask...
00:46:08 <Aali> found it, it's not mentioned in the grf description though
00:47:11 <Ammler> glx didn't code the clickalbe links yet ;-)
00:52:20 <Ammler> hmm, who ownes a grf which are made by 2 or more?
00:53:14 <Ammler> design by X, code by me
00:53:54 <Ammler> iirc, I am allowed to upload only grfs which I own ;-)
00:53:56 <Aali> and it is odd code at that
00:55:16 <Aali> all those action7's when a simple action6 could've done it :P
00:55:18 <Ammler> I am quite sure, it is possible to make that nicer.
00:57:02 <Ammler> well, I prefer coding something ugly then not.
00:57:28 <Aali> maybe I should release my basecosts grf when its done..
00:58:13 <Aali> but configuring it is a bitch so I don't expect people to be able to use it properly :(
00:58:40 <Ammler> that is why I never reviewed it :-)
00:59:29 <Ammler> I thought about multigrfs, one basecosts grf per type rail/road/plane etc.
00:59:40 <Aali> yeah, thats probably the way to go
01:00:06 <Ammler> but the dynmic newgrf pool doesn't support it, so...
01:00:32 <dihedral> Aali, it would be fine if you had the grf split into categories
01:00:46 <Aali> I crammed the 27 most important basecosts into one grf but, well.. even I can't configure it properly, so :P
01:00:46 <dihedral> i.e. one for water, one for air, one for rail, one for misc
01:02:17 <Ammler> and another problem we had, the foundation costs are based on terraforming
01:02:56 <Ammler> well, add a new basecost for :-)
01:03:55 <Aali> or atleast make it not depend on terraform cost
01:04:04 <Belugas> i suck you suck he sucks she sucks we suck you suck
01:05:14 <Belugas> ho.. i like it... keep on going ... ho hohoh!!!!
01:05:34 <Zuu> Ammler: According to the discussion about bananas, there was ideas for how to handle multiple authors, so just give it time. :)
01:05:49 <Zuu> "the discussions" = discussions before today
01:06:14 <Zuu> In the very top secret NoAI channel :-)
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01:11:38 <keiya> is there any reason we can't have 45º track on slopes, besides "that's how it's always been"?
01:12:20 <Ammler> keiya: that is possible
01:13:22 <Ammler> well, depense, what you mean with it, I guess. :-)
01:13:57 <keiya> I mean track going up-down or left-right, instead of parallel to the grid.
01:15:08 <keiya> "check online content"? That's new.
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01:53:18 <canidae> hmm... any known bug with trains and heading for depot for servicing in latest nightly?
01:53:38 <canidae> latest nightly = r15130
01:54:19 <canidae> had a bunch of trains with 0% reliability, but sending them to a depot is no problem
01:55:13 <canidae> seemingly after they either been replaced by newer engines or visiting the depot they're comfortable heading there for servicing on their own, though
02:02:28 <zilfondel> can you download previous nightlies precompiled?
02:03:50 <zilfondel> can anyone answer my question?
02:04:06 <Belugas> it makes little sens to me
02:04:27 <zilfondel> because thats not really my thing...
02:04:47 <zilfondel> I wanted to take a peek at the public server game going on
02:04:53 <Belugas> nighlies are compiled
02:04:54 <zilfondel> but I don't have any software dev tools on this laptop
02:05:11 <zilfondel> I'm not a programmer
02:05:21 <zilfondel> I meant already compiled :P
02:05:30 <worldemar> hmm, looks like it's 6:05 am... i have to go sleep ;)
02:05:36 <Gekz> zilfondel: go to the nightly page
02:05:44 <zilfondel> I'm an architect dammit! lol
02:05:50 <Gekz> I'm sure I missed 8 steps
02:06:04 <Belugas> thus, the house will crumble!
02:06:32 <zilfondel> yeah but its r15130?
02:06:52 <zilfondel> do you need the older one to play on the public server? they are running r15097
02:06:58 <zilfondel> I thought they weren't compatible
02:07:14 <Gekz> well if you need an older one, you'll have to le gasp, compile it
02:07:22 <zilfondel> thats what I thought
02:07:31 <zilfondel> oh well it was a nice thought :)
02:08:27 <zilfondel> *kiss *kiss *kiss *smooch
02:08:39 <zilfondel> thanks Gekz! youre the best man
02:09:23 <Belugas> garg.... Gekz was too fast :(
02:09:44 <zilfondel> I've been lurking for at least 3 years...
02:09:53 <zilfondel> figured I'd give multiplayer a go
02:09:53 <Gekz> Belugas: you've just never witnessed it
02:10:17 <Gekz> I thought I was absolutely destroying my friend on a 128x128 map
02:10:24 <Gekz> he then made about 600 busses
02:10:25 <zilfondel> I actually met a friend in the real world who plays openttd so I was pretty stoked
02:11:11 <zilfondel> is there a way to assign orders to more than one vehicle at a time w/out using shared orders? or clone vehicle w/shared orders?
02:11:26 <Gekz> then click on that vehicle
02:11:33 <zilfondel> but then you have to click over 600 times
02:11:38 <zilfondel> can you do like 100 at a time?
02:11:42 <Gekz> make one with the orders
02:11:45 <Gekz> then clone it in the debpot
02:11:58 <zilfondel> yeah I already do that
02:12:17 <zilfondel> I was hoping for a higher-level mgmt system, since you can group vehicles
02:12:35 <Gekz> I just havent paid that much attention to such things
02:12:39 <zilfondel> would make the game really useful...
02:12:45 <zilfondel> yeah I havent either.
02:12:55 <zilfondel> but 600 buses just brought nightmares to my mind!
02:16:18 <Gekz> hey Belugas, has a debian repo ever been considered being set up?
02:16:18 <Belugas> mmh... never really played with that goup stuff, although i've heard it's quite good
02:16:39 <Gekz> because that would be sweet
02:16:49 <Belugas> i'm a windows guy, you kow...
02:16:50 <Gekz> just typing apt-get update; apt-get install openttd-trunk
02:17:23 <Belugas> i THINK i've heard blathijs working on it or something, but there's nothing sure about that
02:17:49 <Belugas> donb't take my words on it
02:20:08 <Gekz> I could make a script for it
02:20:12 <Gekz> would be simple I dare say
02:20:49 <Belugas> don't even know what a debian repo stands for
02:21:08 <Belugas> and no... i don;t want to know either!
02:21:14 <zilfondel> hey thanks guys I really appreciate it
02:21:20 <zilfondel> looks like I can prob get into the game
02:22:51 <Gekz> Belugas: you fail at the world!
02:24:24 <Belugas> hey ..i know what i need to know... If i've told you my octopus needs to be changed, would you understand?
02:26:58 <Gekz> Belugas: depends on what kind of octopus
02:27:01 <Belugas> mostly ghosts, granted...
02:27:16 <Zuu> Gekz: Checkout autostart in #openttdcoop that is a shellscript for getting nightlies or from SVN.
02:27:29 <Belugas> nope, Gekz, if yo know me, you should know there is only one correct definition
02:27:48 <Katy> what are you all talking about??
02:28:00 <Zuu> Gekz: Or if you want to write it yourself take a look on finger.openttd.org
02:37:28 <Belugas> learn to code and patch
02:37:45 <Belugas> i'm not bored and it's what i do
02:38:06 <Katy> but i dont know what you are talking about
02:38:31 <Belugas> in other words... DO SOMETHING!
02:39:31 <Belugas> people who are in this channel are most of the time playing the game, or coding for the game
02:39:44 <Belugas> so... that's what i've told you
02:39:54 <Belugas> learn to code and patch
02:40:21 <Katy> but i dont know what you are talking about. what the heck is code and patch????
02:40:57 <goodger> Katy: you are aware of computer programming using code, yes?
02:42:10 <Katy> im not that good with computers
02:43:12 <Katy> what do you mean by that?
02:44:11 <goodger> well, clearly your stage of learning about computers is quite early if you're unaware of the concept of programming them
02:44:46 <Katy> ill have to ask my friend jt
02:45:11 <Katy> hes a huge geek, surrounded by us nerds (im a nerd, same as most of my other friends) (lol)
02:45:39 <goodger> ask him his opinion on dynamic typing
02:46:11 <Katy> let me see if he is online
02:46:24 <goodger> I'd be most interested to know the response
02:46:37 <goodger> you must enforce a time limit so there's no possibility of him looking it up, though
02:47:41 <Katy> im sure he knows what it is, he did make something for our school computer system
02:48:07 <zilfondel> I think wikipedia is what the doctor ordered!
02:48:43 <zilfondel> I will magnaminously allow someone else to post the link to "computer programming"
02:49:39 <zilfondel> I'm actually surprised that you could get onto IRC without more knowledge...
02:50:04 <zilfondel> boy, I remember back in the day...
02:50:54 <goodger> back in my day, we whistled into acoustic couplers to get onto IRC!
02:51:11 <goodger> ah, Admiral Hopper's log. wonderful ^_^
02:51:19 <goodger> everyone thinks that's an april fool's joke
02:51:26 <Katy> hey goodger jt wants to know what "the hell is dynamic typing"
02:51:27 <zilfondel> I had a 9600 baud modem
02:51:41 <Katy> those are his exact words in the quotes
02:51:43 <goodger> Katy: he doesn't qualify as a nerd then
02:51:50 <goodger> tell him that, I'd like to imagine the foaming
02:52:20 <goodger> zilfondel: unfortunately, my "internet virginity loss" postdates the ubiquity of V.92
02:52:24 <Katy> he hates being called a nerd
02:52:43 <goodger> he doesn't qualify as a geek either
02:52:46 <zilfondel> I detect underageness
02:53:01 <Katy> well hes extremly good at computers so
02:53:08 <goodger> ask him whether he knows what variable typing is
02:54:08 <goodger> does he know the meaning of the word "boolean"?
02:54:09 <zilfondel> its beer thirty!!!!
02:54:24 <goodger> good evening to you, zilfondel
02:54:29 <Katy> is that a computer word??
02:54:39 <goodger> was that his response?
02:54:45 <zilfondel> its 7:00 now so in thirty minutes :D
02:55:01 <Katy> no i havent asked him et
02:55:09 <Belugas> speaking of boolean, that's waht i need rioght now
02:55:10 <goodger> yes, it is a computer word
02:55:17 <goodger> indeed, it's a variable type
02:55:25 <zilfondel> boolean isnt just computer, its maths!
02:55:41 <zilfondel> maths are the basisis of compewters
02:55:56 <zilfondel> they make dem run faster
02:55:59 <goodger> but within the context of variable types, boolean is the most obscure
02:56:12 <goodger> I can't ask "does he know what an integer is?"
02:56:17 <zilfondel> I think I learned the concepts back in like 8th grade
02:56:25 <goodger> Katy: does he know what an integer is?
02:56:33 <Katy> yes we know what integers are
02:56:43 <Belugas> ok guys... the joke is not funny anymore
02:56:46 <Katy> we are high in math and science
02:56:56 <Katy> i love imaginary numbers they are soo easy
02:57:39 <goodger> zilfondel: eighth grade is what age? I'm wholly unfamilar with transatlantic school systems
02:57:49 <Katy> jts response to that boolean word- "It's a computer operation that involves finding the intersection of two objects"
02:58:16 <goodger> wrong context, but he's correct
02:59:04 <Katy> i was 13 and 14 in 8th grade
02:59:43 <zilfondel> Katy, what grade are you in? just curious
03:00:02 <Belugas> boolean? an operation???
03:00:32 <Katy> what grade are you all in??
03:00:41 <goodger> Katy: most of us are in our 30s
03:00:58 <goodger> Belugas: boolean operations such as intersect, combine, er... subtract, etc. see the Path menu in inkscape...
03:01:12 <Belugas> it's been at least 20 years i've not been in school, apart sending my kind there...
03:01:17 <zilfondel> I am actually in... hmm. 17th grade!
03:01:40 <Belugas> oh... ok... make sens goodger
03:01:42 <Katy> is there anyone here under 18??
03:01:50 <zilfondel> university is fun, but I'm almost done
03:02:02 <goodger> Katy: I'm only just 18, if that helps
03:02:12 <Belugas> mmhh... there is at least Yorick
03:02:27 <Belugas> and he's bnot fun talking to
03:02:44 <goodger> what is he, about twelve?
03:02:46 <Belugas> but we are definitively older
03:02:54 <Belugas> young, and that's enough for me
03:02:55 <goodger> I think you mean definitely
03:03:01 <goodger> well, I'm young also...
03:03:11 <goodger> it's a matter of maturity rather than age
03:04:52 <Katy> so your like a kid stuck in an adults body??
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03:05:44 <Katy> what are you talking about??
03:05:48 <Belugas> i do not like a kid stuck in an adult body...it's called pedophily
03:06:50 <Sacro> Katy: jt as in j tanczos?
03:07:34 <Sacro> there should be alaw against people having the same name/initials
03:08:09 <goodger> Sacro: when have you ever had the same name as me?
03:08:20 <Sacro> I'm sure we share the same first name
03:08:59 <goodger> well... good. there are insufficient benjamins
03:09:09 <goodger> further, I am one of three ben goodgers living worldwide
03:10:28 <Sacro> Katy: ignore the randomness :)
03:11:31 <Sacro> even if he tells you not to ;)
03:11:43 <goodger> Sacro: I'd sooner not do any breeding, thanks
03:11:54 <goodger> the world would probably be destroyed by a plurality of me
03:11:59 <Belugas> you can do whatever yo want, i'm not seeking any kind of recognition
03:12:05 <zilfondel> the only thing better than breeding is getting drunk and breeding
03:12:07 <Sacro> yay, i'll get the bbq going
03:12:11 <Belugas> and i usually like to make no sens at all
03:12:20 <zilfondel> well true, I meant "trying to" breed
03:12:36 <Sacro> getting drunk and trying to breed is fun
03:13:03 <zilfondel> we scared her off guys
03:13:25 <Belugas> your chance has dissapeared, Sacro ;)
03:13:30 <zilfondel> ...like they say, its all downhill from here!
03:13:52 <goodger> zilfondel: you mean like scaring away the only female?
03:14:09 <zilfondel> internet females are a myth, I tell you
03:15:03 <Belugas> me?? pfff... i've got all i need, and i certainly do not need a headless chick ;)
03:16:31 <Quaver> a train cannot crash into itself on openttd
03:16:40 <Quaver> Sacro: you might want to see this :p
03:16:47 <Sacro> Quaver: i know about it
03:17:02 <Sacro> ahh, D is dominator ram
03:17:12 <Sacro> and DF is dominator with fan
03:17:13 <Quaver> Sacro: the endless loop?
03:17:24 <Sacro> sigh, no Jasmine online :(
03:17:26 <Belugas> Quaver, known,not a bug, not going to be fixed either :)
03:17:55 <Quaver> Belugas: surely it is a bug ;)
03:18:30 <Quaver> if a vehicle is longer than the rails it occupies, a collision must occur?
03:18:54 <Sacro> whereas goodger is more of an errm... pain :p
03:19:13 <Belugas> only one thing, it's OUR REALITY
03:19:34 <Belugas> it has to do with the collision dettection code
03:19:41 <Belugas> if it has been extended to all wagons,
03:19:51 <goodger> I thought you liked me
03:19:52 <Belugas> it would have made the game a crawl
03:20:02 <Belugas> so, it has been .. made simpler
03:20:21 <Quaver> right, there we go. that's the answer i was looking for. :)
03:20:21 <Sacro> goodger: course i do :)
03:22:48 <zilfondel> hey can you guys put curves into the game?
03:23:31 <Sacro> Quaver: foudn my new ram on ebuyer
03:23:37 <Sacro> zilfondel: use a magnet
03:23:45 <Sacro> put it to the side of a crt
03:23:53 <Gekz> Debian repo script is partly written
03:24:02 <zilfondel> but I have an lcd monitor guys
03:24:29 <zilfondel> I always wanted subways in TTD, but that might be asking too much
03:25:28 <Sacro> we find it hard to output the sandwich when dun
03:26:07 <Sacro> Gekz: you made a sandwich? :o
03:26:23 <Gekz> I made a script that finds the current version of openttd nightly
03:26:31 <Gekz> and renames it per architecture to Debian standard
03:26:41 <Sacro> send me the whatever file
03:26:50 <Sacro> I could do with an OpenTTD-nightly PKGBUILD for Arch
03:27:05 <Sacro> we have openttd{,-rc,-beta,-svn}
03:27:07 <Gekz> in that case, I can send you what i've done
03:27:12 <Gekz> because that's basically all you need isnt it
03:27:27 <Gekz> by nightly I meant binary nightly though
03:27:29 <Belugas> all you need is LOOOOOOOV
03:27:32 <Gekz> but that can be easily modified
03:27:38 <Sacro> hmm, not sure how I can get the revision and then rebuild with that
03:28:37 <Gekz> to find the current binary nightly
03:28:49 <Sacro> what a horrible line :p
03:28:56 <Gekz> not as horrible as it could be
03:29:11 <Gekz> stream line 3, cut the first field, and show all characters after the first one
03:29:17 <Gekz> so it cuts the r from the revision
03:29:43 * Belugas sends some plasters torevision
03:29:48 <Sacro> might be easier using a sed one liner
03:30:12 * Belugas goes to sleep, enough non-sens
03:30:18 <Gekz> Sacro: I'm horrible with sed
03:30:27 <Gekz> if you make me a sed one-liner, then I'll use it
03:30:31 <Gekz> and cut is better than awk for me
03:30:43 <zilfondel> so has anyone used the new AI?
03:31:06 <glx> what do you mean with "new" ?
03:31:30 <zilfondel> I thought the big new thing is the new AI right?
03:32:18 <glx> it's not an AI but a framework to write AIs
03:32:27 <Gekz> WrightAI and such are AIs for it
03:33:22 <glx> but now AIs are allowed in multiplayer :)
03:34:22 <zilfondel> are there any AIs that play well with trains?
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03:37:01 <glx> admiralai is the only one to use train for now IIRC
03:37:22 <glx> but it can builds networks with junctions
03:38:34 <Aali> there are some kinks left to work out though, but it's far better than the old AI
03:40:30 <zilfondel> how long has it been worked on?
03:42:05 <glx> at least 6 months for admiralai
03:42:53 <glx> wow it even have its own flyspray
03:45:21 <zilfondel> wow. flys really suck
03:49:06 <keiya> Hmm. Has Classic AI been ported to NoAI yet? :J
03:50:41 <keiya> Might be an interesting project, even if it /does/ suck.
03:51:06 <Aali> so it's never going to happen
03:52:37 <Aali> free terraform? ignore town rating? and the list goes on
03:52:40 <goodger> it had free terraforming if I recall correctly
03:53:26 <keiya> Eh, so it'd just go out of business really fast :P
04:22:24 <keiya> I'm hungry. Can anyone spare some blood?
04:23:04 <goodger> keiya: sorry, I need all my blood and a bit more
04:26:28 <keiya> But, but.... what's a hungry vampire to do?
04:29:40 <Gekz> So back to discussion about a Debian repo
04:29:51 <Gekz> would we want to keep all versions of nightly?
04:29:53 <Gekz> or just the most recent?
04:33:35 <goodger> keiya: I suggest you obtain some form of somniotherapy device such as a dawn simulator
04:34:43 <Gekz> Belugas: who is in-charge of the domain name and servers for openttd?
04:54:12 <Gekz> these nightlies, they have the version 0.7~svn
04:54:28 <Gekz> debian repo wont like that
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05:49:19 <Gekz> yay for bash script that changes version information per file
06:13:48 <Alberth> Gekz: just like 'learning on the job', apply 'testing on the job' :)
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08:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause would know <- no, there isn't
08:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause> very unfortunately
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09:03:55 <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause: you use Debian, right?
09:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i use openSUSE
09:04:22 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i love you, too.
09:04:37 <Gekz> SUSE is the one distro of Linux I really can't stand
09:04:41 <Gekz> it hates me on a personal level
09:05:15 <Eddi|zuHause> strange, we have a mutual agreement of not disturbing each other too much
09:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it beats windows in almost every aspect
09:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> and most of the default settings are sane
09:17:28 <petern> perhaps it is you who are the toad
09:20:06 <Gekz> I have set up a debian repo for nightly builds
09:20:20 <Gekz> and made a script that unpacks teh debs, gives it a correct version based on the build, and repacks it
09:20:32 <Gekz> although I haven't worked out why I can't gpg sign them
09:20:37 <Gekz> probably because I dont have the keys :P
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09:22:54 <Gekz> I dont understand why the nightlies aren't given the proper revision number in the control file anyway
09:23:08 <Gekz> they have 0.7~svn without the revision number
09:23:25 <ConditionalZenith> I believe it's done to annoy you :p
09:23:31 <petern> because we'd have to change it on every commit
09:23:48 <Gekz> no, it could be done on ./configure
09:23:50 <ConditionalZenith> can't you use some keyword magic?
09:24:41 <Gekz> petern: who is in charge of the openttd.org servers?
09:25:07 <Gekz> I'll harass them about it
09:25:29 <Gekz> and it would only require a single cron job to be run once a night to be updated too
09:26:05 <ConditionalZenith> it would make more sense to add it to the script that builds the nightlies
09:26:18 <ConditionalZenith> that way you have no chance of races
09:26:39 <ConditionalZenith> race conditions
09:27:11 <Gekz> just add the script that cron would run as a cleanup script
09:49:15 <Gekz> TrueBrain: has you awakenness?
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10:06:11 <George> Should I report this as bug:
10:06:17 <George> * FUNCTION (Start()) F:\Games\OpenTTD\ai\wrightai\main.nut line (338)
10:06:17 <George> Your script made an error: the index ‘MY_COMPANY’ does not exist
10:06:47 <George> WrightAI generates error for me. R15130
10:07:27 <Rubidium> that's an old version
10:09:22 <George> Old version of WrightAI?
10:10:13 <Rubidium> it got removed from the nightly builds
10:10:46 <Rubidium> but extracting the build zip/whatever doesn't remove the files
10:11:32 <George> Is there a new version available anywhere?
10:17:16 <Rubidium> you can download it in game
10:19:20 <George> Repository? How can upload my GRFs to it?
10:20:30 <Gekz> Rubidium: how does setting up a debian repository for nightly builds sound to you?
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10:23:16 <petern> i believe you can go back and it will work
10:24:13 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: sounds like login's broken (again)
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10:35:44 <George> Version field is too short, I need at least 5 more symbols :(
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10:36:40 <George> "beta 5 (13 Jan 2009)"
10:37:12 <ConditionalZenith> I noticed a lot were truncated in the list
10:37:18 <ConditionalZenith> that is in game
10:40:29 <canidae> i'm trying out a new railroad layout, but i'm having a fair deal of issues with trains that refuse to enter depots for serving. can someone tell me what's wrong with my layout? (signals next to stations are two-way path signals, rest are one-way path signals) http://exent.net/~canidae/servicing.png
10:41:25 <canidae> ctrl-click depot makes the train head for a depot
10:41:39 <canidae> but regular servicing it refuses
10:42:32 <canidae> s/serving/servicing/, a couple lines up :s
10:43:19 <ConditionalZenith> can't see why trains aren't going to the depot
10:43:33 <ConditionalZenith> do you have any depot orders?
10:44:09 <ConditionalZenith> ok, and you haven't got breakdowns off + no servicing with breakdowns off?
10:44:26 <canidae> reliability is down on 31% now, and it's been 18 months since last servicing, normal breakdowns
10:44:49 <canidae> (train can't get from one station to the other without 3 breakdowns)
10:45:00 <ConditionalZenith> yeah the screen clearly shows that, I need to pay more attention
10:45:24 <ConditionalZenith> ok, what if you take out the path signal in front of the depot
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10:47:09 <canidae> it's gonna take a while before the train reach the depot, 23% reliability now :p
10:48:46 <canidae> missed the first depot, but maybe the other on the way back
10:49:03 <ConditionalZenith> if it missed the first, I don't think it will take the second
10:49:44 <canidae> beginning to suspect there's a bug somewhere around here
10:50:10 <ConditionalZenith> I know it's worked for me if I have a more compact servicing arrangement
10:50:13 <canidae> missed the second one too
10:50:57 <ConditionalZenith> ok, so if you take out all the signals inside the "depot triangle", does it work?
10:51:35 <ConditionalZenith> I do know that trains wont go too far out of their way for an automatic service
10:52:07 <ConditionalZenith> and all the extra signals may cause it not to see the depot as part of it's path
10:53:25 <ConditionalZenith> which revision?
10:53:40 <ConditionalZenith> I saw something about that in the changelog
10:53:53 <canidae> did not help with removing signals... can try building a depot closer to the track
10:54:54 <canidae> hmm, looks like this might be it
10:55:08 <canidae> shame, liked this setup, no sharp turns into the depot
10:55:20 <ConditionalZenith> checked out the wiki?
10:55:35 <ConditionalZenith> the info there may be outdated, but it did have some niceish setups
10:55:38 <canidae> didn't find anything in the "servicing" page
10:56:15 <canidae> well, "It also avoids the possibility that a vehicle may need servicing at an inconvenient point on its route (maybe the nearest depot is a long way away)." probably should be a clue
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11:00:34 <Zuu> canidae: Those depots look close enough to the track. 16 or 18 tiles is the limit (one of them, I just don't remember which)
11:00:51 <canidae> well, it certainly appears like they're not :)
11:01:40 <Zuu> canidae: Did you try put them just next to the track and got it working?
11:02:09 <Zuu> Okay, it use to work for me hehe :)
11:04:11 <Zuu> But I seldome use the track-layout you have used with double track and intersections so often.
11:05:09 <canidae> it's nice with breakdowns on normal :)
11:05:27 * Zuu never plays with breakdowns on normal
11:05:37 <Zuu> Reduced happens but never normal.
11:06:01 <canidae> i've tried a new layout i was sure would work
11:06:06 <canidae> let me grab another screenshot
11:08:05 <canidae> this really can't be too far away from the route, can it?
11:08:26 <Zuu> Far away is counted in rail tiles.
11:08:45 <ConditionalZenith> ok, I just got "dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer" 3 times
11:09:01 <ConditionalZenith> that was about the same time I downloaded 3 ECS vectors from the server
11:09:18 <canidae> fine, i'll limit the "queue" to 1 track, then
11:09:26 <ConditionalZenith> Did someone make an off by one error somewhere?
11:09:51 <Zuu> So this one is further away than the old one. And if you uese PBS then I think you need to count from the signal where it must decide if it should go to depot or not. But even then your last depot layout should be okay. It's on 12 tiles.
11:10:59 <canidae> new screenshot coming up :p
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11:12:01 <canidae> still too far, apparently
11:13:04 <thadthudpucker> i have been running ottd on windows for some time, and i would like to know if there is a place i can put my openttd.cfg file now that i am on linux?
11:13:15 <ConditionalZenith> in ~/.openttd
11:13:26 <thadthudpucker> and what is in my home folder?
11:13:29 * yorick would like aircraft that are only capable of landing on intercontental airports
11:13:40 <yorick> or at least the possibility of setting so
11:13:58 <ConditionalZenith> thadthudpucker: your question confuses me
11:14:12 <ConditionalZenith> there is a folder called .openttd in your home folder
11:14:16 <thadthudpucker> where does openttd.cfg go in linux
11:14:20 <ConditionalZenith> openttd.cfg lives there
11:16:17 <Alberth> canidae: trains look for a depot every now and then, at most 16 or 18 tiles. The further away the depot is from the 'normal' track, the less chance you have that the train looks 'at the right time' for a depot.
11:16:42 <Alberth> canidae: in particular, they don't look constantly afaik
11:16:56 <Zuu> canidae: Try to use servicing interval in days instead.
11:17:13 <thadthudpucker> is there a way to stop trains from turning around impossibly while waiting for a signal?
11:17:16 <Zuu> I don't understand the % method, but all I know is that it is not what you think it is.
11:17:49 <thadthudpucker> oftentimes, they will turn around right before it turns green, while on a one way track
11:17:50 <Zuu> Unless you have read about it somewhere explaning % of what it uses.
11:18:12 <Zuu> thadthudpucker: Yes, using yapp parameters.
11:19:02 <canidae> Zuu: 15% interval means that when the reliability is 15% less than max (eg. less than 85% for a vehicle with 100% max, less than 68% for 80% max), the train should head for a depot
11:19:15 <Zuu> I don't know then by hart, so you have to look for them. But there are parameters, so you can set waiting time for the PBS and non-pbs signals to 255 = infinity
11:19:30 <ConditionalZenith> in the [pf] section
11:19:51 <ConditionalZenith> there are 3 wait_blah settings
11:19:57 <ConditionalZenith> that's what you want
11:20:17 <Zuu> But if you want to change them in a running save game you need to use the console though
11:21:49 <Zuu> "patch" being the command, and name the name of the setting you like to change. And value, the new value.
11:22:00 <Zuu> If you ommit value it will tell you the current value.
11:22:09 <Eddi|zuHause> canidae: ever tried setting the service interval to 85%?
11:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you have the "less than" part wrong
11:22:24 <ConditionalZenith> you don't want that
11:22:35 <ConditionalZenith> 15% is about right
11:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it is "down to"?
11:22:49 <ConditionalZenith> no, it is definitely "down by"
11:23:07 <Zuu> canidae: First try set it to 30 days and see if your track-layout is working before blaming it at least.
11:23:40 <ConditionalZenith> if the "service at foo depot" order works, then it needed a service
11:24:04 <canidae> i'm trying Alberth's hint
11:24:46 <canidae> if it checks every x tile or something, then maybe i managed to build it so that it checks just before entering the station, or just after passing the intersection leading to the depot
11:24:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you should also try placing the depot closer to the main track, afaik trains don't chose depots for automatic servicing that are more than 16 (?) tiles away
11:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and it must chose to go to depot before hitting the signals before the switch
11:25:30 <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: If you look on the screenshots he has posted that limit is not a problem
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11:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause> it loosk awfully close to 16 tiles from here...
11:26:31 <Zuu> I counted one of them to 12 tiles. Which should be okay
11:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause> from 1 tile before the signal
11:26:58 <Eddi|zuHause> if it reserved past the signal, it cannot chose to go to depot anymore
11:27:05 <Zuu> uh, nope from the signal tile.
11:28:13 <canidae> i think Alberth may be right, train heads for depot when i moved them closer to the stations
11:28:50 <Alberth> maybe they count before turning the train around?
11:29:23 <Zuu> As far as I know it checks not just one time but constantly.
11:29:37 <Zuu> Or at least in front of each signal.
11:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause> they are not constantly, but sporadic (afaik)
11:29:45 <Zuu> Between signals don't make sense.
11:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but the exact ways were always a little mystical to me
11:30:25 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i play with breakdowns off
11:31:08 <Zuu> Having the depots in the schedule should rule out any problem of having the depot to far away right?
11:31:35 <Zuu> But might not be an option if you have many depots between each station.
11:32:40 <canidae> from another railroad i got
11:32:47 <canidae> showing a train that volunteerly entered the depot
11:33:09 <canidae> (same distance as first screenshot, btw)
11:34:08 <Zuu> hmm, trying his track-layout I got same problem of train not entering depot.
11:34:23 <Zuu> But removing the signal between depot and main-track solves the issue.
11:35:15 <Zuu> Or you can replace the signal infront of the depot with a normal non-PBS signal.
11:36:27 <Zuu> Hmm, I was wrong. Even with PBS it enters depot. My problem was that the loop the train makes is shorter than 30 days.
11:38:53 <Zuu> Seams to work here with %, but the condition for servicing must be True, when it checks these 16 tiles before. Not just next to the entrance, it seams.
11:41:10 <Zuu> Hmm, looks like it takes 15% minus the relability level it had when it exited the depot as limit.
11:42:21 <Zuu> So if it had 82% when it left depot 82*0.85 = 69.7. So when it has < 69.7 it will enter the depot.
11:44:31 <Zuu> Which fits good with what I see on my screen.
11:50:42 <Alberth> Zuu: yeah, the computer tends to do what the source says :)
11:51:17 <ConditionalZenith> until someone screws up a pointer of overflows some memory :)
11:51:36 <Eddi|zuHause> or because of cosmic dust...
11:51:58 <ConditionalZenith> also known as broken ram?
11:52:28 <ConditionalZenith> or just overclocking that is too agressive
11:52:38 <ConditionalZenith> or maybe a compiler bug
11:53:00 <ConditionalZenith> or even a kernel bug
11:53:09 <ConditionalZenith> ok I'll stop now
11:54:05 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it theoretically is possible that ionising radiation may induce electrons somewhere they do not belong
11:54:37 <ConditionalZenith> yes, I suspect that everything I listed is more common though
11:54:48 <mrfrenzy> ionising radiation doesn't penetrate steel very well
11:57:02 <Ammler> hmm, LaBaNaNaS wouldn't sound that bad :-)
11:57:46 <Ammler> and you could drop out the language files too :-)
12:00:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that'll cause horrible versioning nightmares
12:08:07 <Alberth> and you cannot tell the user that his Internet connection is broken
12:13:30 <petern> i don't know how the base graphics part is supposed to work...
12:15:55 <ConditionalZenith> Ok, an OTTD savegame has some info about the newGRFs used
12:16:04 <ConditionalZenith> does it just store IDs?
12:16:12 <ConditionalZenith> or is there more that it keeps?
12:17:29 <ConditionalZenith> so if I get the message about it crashing while loading a game, and it shows a list of missing GRFs with md5s, are they what it wants to find or what it did find?
12:18:06 <ConditionalZenith> wait, there's an assertion before that
12:18:26 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: the repo like prepared for version checks
12:19:12 <Ammler> it has min and max version fields, which I didn't see a effect now :-)
12:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: yes, but you need new lng-packs for each nightly
12:19:43 <Ammler> but those are compiled for every plattform the same?
12:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, it isn't the right place...
12:20:10 <Ammler> or does a win lang differ from nix lang file?
12:22:17 <George> Rubidium: If I download a new AI in game, how can I configure it there? If download it separately, I can change the cfg file before starting OTTD, but what to do in game?
12:23:34 <ConditionalZenith> you mean start_ai in the console?
12:24:15 <ConditionalZenith> I'm not sure if that works for files that weren't there when the game was started thoug
12:24:45 <Ammler> ConditionalZenith: he asked rubi, nobody else knows that ;-)
12:25:18 <ConditionalZenith> I'm sure rubi will either agree or disagree with me :)
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12:31:56 <petern> yeah, that content list might need a filter at some point
12:34:27 <Ammler> looks like most just hit "mark all" and download
12:35:00 <Ammler> they don't read things like "test grf" or such :-)
12:38:01 <petern> there's on console version :/
12:38:37 <petern> bananas install convoy
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12:40:28 <energetic> a console openttd version?
12:40:53 <energetic> track 234x129 to 125x129
12:41:13 <petern> for the content downloader
12:41:55 <Ammler> hmm, if you could manipulate grf parameters of other newgrfs, you could make something like newgrf presets grfs (with dependencies)
12:42:33 <ConditionalZenith> so if I try to load an old save game, and it asserts and whinges about missing newGRFs, what's the next step? give up?
12:42:41 <petern> action 14, depend on grfid with parameters?
12:42:48 <petern> ConditionalZenith: install those newgrfs
12:42:57 <ConditionalZenith> they seem to be there
12:43:07 <ConditionalZenith> I get lines like: NewGRF 4D413034 (ottdc_grfpack/1_other/OpenGFX/OpenGFX_-_newGUI_v0.4.grf) not found; checksum DA3F0E6112F58B245C17CAC294B1918A. Tried another NewGRF with same GRF ID
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12:43:29 <ConditionalZenith> The checksum listed matches the checksum of the file I have
12:43:52 <George> ConditionalZenith: I mean this admiralai = always_autorenew=0,build_statues=1,debug_signs=0,depot_near_station=1,start_date=1,use_busses=1,use_planes=1,use_trains=1,use_trucks=1
12:45:16 <ConditionalZenith> ahh, well start_ai takes parameters, if the ai is already started though, I don't know
12:47:03 <Ammler> ConditionalZenith: looks like you need the coop pack :-)
12:47:14 <ConditionalZenith> I have the coop pack
12:47:32 <ConditionalZenith> I have the svn version, this savegame apparently wants 7.0
12:47:43 <Ammler> it did not assert because of the line you pasted
12:48:09 <Ammler> mostly it is because of station grfs or vehicles
12:48:13 <ConditionalZenith> no, the assertion was src/pbs.cpp:83: bool TryReserveRailTrack(TileIndex, Track): Assertion `(GetTileTrackStatus(tile, TRANSPORT_RAIL, 0) & TrackToTrackBits(t)) != 0' failed.
12:48:44 <ConditionalZenith> apparently it was saved with r13032
12:48:45 <Ammler> yeah, sounds like station grf
12:49:20 <ConditionalZenith> ok, dutch stations is one of the ones it complains about
12:49:50 <Ammler> Is it a save from our archive?
12:50:08 <ConditionalZenith> public game 95 to be precise
12:50:18 <ConditionalZenith> I have the svn version of the pack
12:50:34 <ConditionalZenith> I had to track down a couple of GRFs that were missing completely
12:50:36 <ConditionalZenith> which I did
12:50:40 <Ammler> 7.3 is available from svn, too.
12:51:03 <ConditionalZenith> the game says it needs 7.0
12:51:06 <Ammler> it "should" be downwards compatible
12:51:21 <ConditionalZenith> so how does the svn differ from 7.3?
12:52:11 <Ammler> it will have fewer then 7.3
12:52:25 <Ammler> grfs which are available from bananas can be removed there
12:52:37 <George> Is were a documentation about industry % of cargo transported? I'm comfused about having 2 station with rating above 65% and having a total for the industry below 60%. Why?
12:53:56 <Ammler> ConditionalZenith: we make tests with the release versions, no support for trunk.
12:55:46 <ConditionalZenith> ok, does tags/ottdc_grfpack == tags/7.3 ?
12:56:03 <ConditionalZenith> cause I have tags/ottdc_grfpack
12:56:47 <Ammler> ConditionalZenith: yes, #95 doesn't load here, either.
12:57:26 <ConditionalZenith> well the other thing I tried is building r13032
12:57:46 <ConditionalZenith> I could load the game but it would always assert after a few seconds
12:58:19 <ConditionalZenith> it gave me the warning about using different versions of the GRFs though
12:58:43 <ConditionalZenith> and it did also complain about openttdw.grf being missing or corrupt (it wasn't missing)
12:59:11 <Ammler> I am quite sure, it is because of the station grfs, train is in a station wich has no track tiles anymore.
13:00:44 <ConditionalZenith> It gave a different assert with the old binary
13:00:47 <ConditionalZenith> src/yapf/follow_track.hpp:88: bool CFollowTrackT<Ttr_type_, T90deg_turns_allowed_>::Follow(TileIndex, Trackdir) [with TransportType Ttr_type_ = TRANSPORT_BEGIN, bool T90deg_turns_allowed_ = false]: Assertion `((TrackStatusToTrackdirBits(GetTileTrackStatus(m_old_tile, TT(), m_veh->u.road.compatible_roadtypes)) & TrackdirToTrackdirBits(m_old_td)) != 0) || (GetSingleTramBit(m_old_tile) != INVALID_DIAGDIR)' failed.
13:01:09 <ConditionalZenith> wait, that's not an assert
13:01:10 <Rubidium> that's the classic "train can't drive here" assertion
13:01:16 <Ammler> total_bridges was also a buggy version
13:01:39 <ConditionalZenith> wait, it is an assert
13:01:40 <Rubidium> having the "wrong" version of any NewGRF might causes these things
13:01:51 <Ammler> well, not the grf itself, just some nightlies around nov/dec
13:01:55 <Rubidium> that's also why the nice red error box shows up
13:02:10 <ConditionalZenith> so how do I know that the right version is?
13:02:42 <Ammler> Rubidium: it asserts here before the red box.
13:03:06 <Rubidium> ConditionalZenith: that's a bit of the problem with newgrfs... they aren't versioned so there's no way to tell
13:03:24 <ConditionalZenith> can I even get the checksum of the right one?
13:03:46 <ConditionalZenith> and yes, with recent trunk it asserts before the red box
13:04:16 <ConditionalZenith> the red box + different assertion happens when I use the exact version it was saved with
13:05:06 <ConditionalZenith> anyway, if this is wasting too much time, I'm happy to give up
13:05:09 <Rubidium> ConditionalZenith: what OS are you using?
13:05:28 * SmatZ is considering turning of notice at "assert" :-p
13:05:29 <ConditionalZenith> and I should point out I use mercurial instead of SVN too
13:05:41 <Ammler> src/pbs.cpp:83: bool TryReserveRailTrack(TileIndex, Track): Assertion `(GetTileTrackStatus(tile, TRANSPORT_RAIL, 0) & TrackToTrackBits(t)) != 0' failed.
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13:06:18 <glx> Ammler: did you change station ggrfs?
13:06:27 <Rubidium> ConditionalZenith: then any wrong/missing GRFs should be dumped onto the console
13:06:29 <petern> Ammler, no it was a joke :)
13:06:50 <glx> Ammler: so a non track tile became a track tile
13:06:51 <Ammler> petern: well, or an idea ;-)
13:06:58 <ConditionalZenith> yes, they were, and I verified that each one had the same md5 as the files I have
13:07:18 <petern> Ammler, yeah, you could implement it...
13:08:03 <ConditionalZenith> it seems to me like the md5 on the console is what it found, not what it wants
13:08:14 <Zuu> petern: Assert print, pause 5 seconds, and then a "just kidding" and it sleeps 1-2 seconds an then continues. :-D
13:09:09 <yorick> there is no way to specify custom refit cost like you can do custom refit cap?
13:13:10 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15135 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix/Change: allow str_validate (part of receiving strings from the network) to pass newlines instead of replacing them with question marks, but only when asked to do so.
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13:42:41 <Zuu> With r15130 you at least clearly know when you made a syntax error in an AI :-D
13:46:13 <Zuu> Though using -d ai=5 I can get the error so it is not that bad.
13:53:05 <Zuu> Hmm, wonders if it is possible to make a regex that check for balanced paranteses.
13:53:38 <ConditionalZenith> a single type of parens?
13:54:54 <ConditionalZenith> I see the need for recursion
13:55:02 <ConditionalZenith> which last I knew regexs couldn't do
13:55:56 <ConditionalZenith> you can do \([^\)]*\) to match a single pair of closed parens
13:56:08 <ConditionalZenith> although that might need a bit of tweaking
13:56:24 <Alberth> Zuu: use an editor with highlighting of matching bracket
13:56:47 <Zuu> Alberth: Which I do, but have just not enabled it for .nut files. :)
13:57:33 <Alberth> Zuu: with (g)vim, jump to other bracket with %. That works always :)
13:57:48 <Zuu> Sure, but I have more than 1000 rows. :)
13:57:52 <ConditionalZenith> you can do a similar thing with emacs
13:58:39 <ConditionalZenith> emacs tells me ctrl+alt+b does it
13:58:56 <Alberth> Zuu: can you not abuse a highlighting for another language, eg c++ ?
13:58:58 <Zuu> But I guess getting .nut to work in gvim is the best option as just scrolling through the code makes it quickly clear if any unbalanced paranteses is in it. (red background of the character)
13:59:33 <ConditionalZenith> on emacs it works even if it doesn't recognize the filetype
13:59:42 <Zuu> Alberth: that's what I've did when I made the .nut lang declarations, which I'm surprised i have not installed at the moment. So I'm just LAZY :)
14:00:38 <ConditionalZenith> or just use emacs and it will work right away :p
14:01:00 <Alberth> Zuu: Type a bracket at the end, then type % and see whether it jumps. That way you can home in on missing brackets quite quickly
14:01:03 <ConditionalZenith> I'm jumping forward and backward parens in a .nut file right now :p
14:01:31 <ConditionalZenith> and that's without even looking for a squirrel mode
14:02:43 <Zuu> Alberth: Yes I can do that, but then I would have to get through all my 1000+ lines. one after one. Then OpenTTD is faster even if it crashes at each found syntax error.
14:09:34 <blathijs> Gekz: A Debian repository with nightlies is still on my todo list
14:09:53 <petern> rorserver: rorthomas * r250 /tests/raknet/ (client/client.cpp server/server.cpp): updated
14:09:58 <petern> ^ verbose commit messages :o
14:11:43 <Gekz> blathijs: I've completed the scripts
14:14:13 <yorick> ah, so there rorthom is
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14:50:50 <canidae> is it possible to change settings for the "performance rating"? eg. make "delivered" give score of 500 instead of 400, or change 40,000 units delivered to 50,000?
14:51:11 <ConditionalZenith> define possible
14:51:20 <ConditionalZenith> if you change the source and recompile, yes
14:51:21 <canidae> without editing code & compiling :p
14:51:27 <ConditionalZenith> in that case, no
14:51:38 <ConditionalZenith> well I shouldn't be so hasty
14:51:56 <ConditionalZenith> it's probably possible to find the constant in the binary and change it using a hex editor
14:52:05 <canidae> i've not seen a setting for it, but it could be some obscure name (like "custom_diff", or "diff_custom")
14:52:13 <ConditionalZenith> but I'm sure you would recompile before attempting taht
14:52:19 <SmatZ> or prepare a savegame that causes buffer overflow and overwrites these constants in the code
14:52:43 <Gekz> blathijs: are you there?
14:52:50 <ConditionalZenith> so the short answer is no, there's no setting
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15:09:29 <ConditionalZenith> swiss town names is causing problems with the content service
15:09:36 <blathijs> Gekz: Yeah, bit busy
15:09:48 <blathijs> Gekz: I'd like to see what you have, but I don't have any time now
15:09:59 <ConditionalZenith> it is constantly switching me between 1.0 and 0.3, every time I select update
15:10:39 <ConditionalZenith> wait, maybe no 0.3
15:10:50 <ConditionalZenith> but it insists I update it every time
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15:11:53 <blathijs> Gekz: Do you have it online somewhere, or can you query me?
15:34:01 <Rubidium> ConditionalZenith: looks like the packaging went wrong
15:34:19 <rtypo> i was playing on a server and suddenly my comany and all i owned vanished
15:34:39 <ConditionalZenith> while you were on the server?
15:34:48 <ConditionalZenith> or between visits?
15:35:11 <ConditionalZenith> I would say the admin deleted you
15:35:37 <ConditionalZenith> had it been a long time since you were on the server?
15:36:01 <rtypo> but i quit a minute and rejoined
15:36:17 <rtypo> but no, in a few seconds after rejoining
15:36:45 <rtypo> in fact, i hope it was the admin
15:37:02 <rtypo> it's better than bugs or hackers or anything else
15:37:16 <ConditionalZenith> well it seems the most likely explanation
15:37:55 <rtypo> maybe i broked some rules or something
15:37:58 <ConditionalZenith> you didn't go bankrupt?
15:39:01 <ConditionalZenith> well I would ask the admin
15:39:33 <ConditionalZenith> at least then you will know
15:39:47 <rtypo> also, is it possible for someone to join my passworded comany by using hacks ?
15:40:13 <rtypo> that scumbag messed my whole game
15:40:17 <ConditionalZenith> it's possible there's a security hole
15:40:25 <Rubidium> if bruteforcing your password is a hack, then yes
15:40:39 <rtypo> i don't think it went that far
15:40:58 <rtypo> but maybe a security hole ?
15:41:29 <rtypo> maybe it got fixed, it happened a couple months ago
15:41:32 <Eddi|zuHause> <Zuu> Hmm, wonders if it is possible to make a regex that check for balanced paranteses. <- it is provable that this is not possible
15:42:18 <Progman> Zuu: but pcre got a recursive pattern which "may" solve it
15:42:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you can only check a bounded number of parens with finite state automatons
15:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. you need to specify a maximum depth
15:43:20 <Eddi|zuHause> any expression with higher depth will get incorrect results
15:43:28 <ConditionalZenith> rtypo: there isn't much point looking into it unless we are sure it wasn't the admin and that it still exists in the nightlies
15:43:57 <rtypo> i asked, but got no response
15:44:06 <rtypo> eh, i hope it doesn't happen again
15:44:34 <rtypo> but thanks for the help
15:44:47 <rtypo> in the end,ii think it was the admin
15:45:58 <Zuu> Progman: Ok, centanly not worth it to dig it up. Given my rusty overall knowledge of regex. :)
15:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: for future reference, the language of correct parens is context-free and needs a push down automaton
15:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also normalise the grammar, it should then look like this
15:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, there's something missing
15:51:39 <Zuu> hhmm, I don't follow you. But as said basic regexs is as far as I go usually.
15:52:02 <Zuu> And you don't need to make me understand, just so you know. :-)
15:53:33 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15136 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15126): (file) name could occasionally be wider than the download window causing glitches.
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16:20:20 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r15137 /trunk/src/saveload/ (afterload.cpp oldloader.cpp signs_sl.cpp): -Fix (r11822)(r14340): signs with sign 'Sign' were lost when converting from TTD savegames
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16:26:42 * Prof_Frink watches wrightais going through the painful process of upgrading aircraft
16:27:11 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15138 /trunk/src/terraform_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2542]: tile error location not reset when leveling land causing a tile to be highlighted when there was nothing to flatten.
16:27:24 <Rexxars> kudos on BaNaNaS, excellent idea :-)
16:27:49 <petern> swiss town names are really popular, for some reason...
16:27:53 <Aali> which basecost is town actions based on?
16:28:25 <Prof_Frink> They don't actually upgrade them, merely replacing them with Dinger 200s when they crash
16:28:33 <Prof_Frink> Which is fairly frequently
16:28:36 <Aali> bribe is suddenly going to cost me 400mil, I'm not sure I want that :P
16:28:43 <Ammler> also my test grf for the lumber mill patch is popular ;-)
16:28:49 <frosch123> Aali: build industry :/
16:29:03 <petern> Rubidium, when do we get the ability to automatically install a base graphics set?
16:29:13 <Aali> okay, that makes no sense, but atleast explains why it happened :P
16:29:48 <petern> hmm, for a gnome user, kde 3.5 is not very nice
16:30:15 <Yexo> petern: swiss town names was one of the first newgrf available, like bigger depots. I guess most users just download everything available
16:31:15 <Rubidium> petern: install when?
16:32:02 <Rubidium> furthermore the packaging of swiss town names got messed up making it not show up as downloaded
16:32:12 <Ammler> I am not allowed to upload french cities, yet, only coded it, need to wait for "multi author" support
16:32:47 <petern> Rubidium, when none is available, heh
16:33:09 <petern> actually there's no sample.cat replacement yet
16:33:11 <Rubidium> petern: you like your applications to just magically connect and download stuff?
16:33:29 <Ammler> empty file works now, afaik.
16:35:23 <Rubidium> anyhow, I'm thinking of making it possible to download the opengfx pack when installing the game (for the Windows installer)
16:35:57 <Rubidium> for debian the package should just depend on something that provides graphics for openttd and that should then select opengfx
16:36:39 <Rubidium> and for the other platforms I've got no idea how to make it an optional thing to download opengfx during the install
16:37:44 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: Get your debian packager to look at the quake2-data package and make something similar
16:39:38 <Rubidium> making the packages isn't the really hard part; setting up a sane repository is
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16:41:21 <Ammler> [17:32] <Rubidium> furthermore the packaging of swiss town names got messed up making it not show up as downloaded <-- did I upload it wrong?
16:41:43 <Ammler> I tried first the zip, then 7z and at last tar.bz2
16:41:52 <Rubidium> Ammler: I don't think so
16:42:01 <Rubidium> .zip and .tar.bz2 should work
16:42:13 <Ammler> zip didn't yesterday night
16:42:37 <Rubidium> a plain .tar file (without compression) should also work
16:42:40 <Ammler> well, it might be because it was a 7z-zip
16:43:34 <Ammler> I fear, I can't reupload it again
16:43:47 <Ammler> would need to make a version step with other md5sum
16:44:06 <Rubidium> I could corrupt the md5 sum ;)
16:44:41 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: I'm not sure, but with quake2-data it asks for the CD or downloads the demo and uses the files from that
16:44:49 <Ammler> also a downgrade link would be nice
16:45:00 <Ammler> if you upload a buggy version
16:45:08 <Rubidium> Ammler: try uploading now
16:45:25 <Prof_Frink> So in this case, it would ask for the CD (or installed dir) or download opengfx
16:49:44 <Ammler> Rubidium: still broken
16:50:44 <Rubidium> wtf... /me slaps TrueBrain
16:50:52 <Rubidium> even as tar it fails...
16:51:14 <Ammler> but then the grf will be renamed to the packname
16:51:15 <Rubidium> it should (as in how it is planned) just package the grf and not the tar
16:51:40 <Ammler> i renamed the tar _in_ the pack to *.grf and it works
16:52:57 <Rubidium> so the tar in the tar is actually the grf
16:53:16 <De_Ghosty> what was that command
16:53:27 <De_Ghosty> that check what the update was about
16:54:01 <Yexo> De_Ghosty: @commit revision
16:54:21 <DorpsGek> De_Ghosty: Commit by truelight :: r1 / (202 files in 13 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
16:54:22 <DorpsGek> De_Ghosty: Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
16:54:48 <Ammler> Rubidium: or a function to change the active newgrf
16:55:14 <Ammler> my LumberMill grf is now 1.1 but still 1.0 available
16:55:21 <Ammler> because I uploaded 1.0 after 1.1
16:56:16 <Rubidium> well... you should update them in that order then ;)
16:56:20 <Ammler> the idea was to test, if it is possible to make a save game safe upload later.
16:57:05 <Ammler> i.e. most authors will only upload the newest grfs like ISR 0.8
16:57:30 <Ammler> but then I would like to bugger him until he also upload the old versions.
16:58:35 <Rubidium> Ammler: talk to TB about adding that ;)
16:59:08 <Ammler> petern: might be wrong word :-)
16:59:41 <Rubidium> he meant "bully him into doing it" ;)
17:02:31 <Ammler> a mass importer for the whole coop grf pack would be nice too ;-)
17:03:08 <Rubidium> you're not the author of those grfs, are you?
17:04:17 <Ammler> but we would be allowed to
17:04:19 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15139 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_airport.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: a wrong tile got returned for hangar tiles when the station sign isn't over st->airport_tile.
17:04:40 <Ammler> pm asked the authors if they would give permission for autodownload
17:06:02 <Ammler> we would need to remove around 10% but most would be there.
17:06:18 <petern> "bug him" (to pester) is quite different from "bugger him" (have anal sex with)
17:07:00 <Ammler> hmm, that would be quite a high price for
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17:16:27 <petern> kde didn't support window resizing, gnome does
17:16:42 <petern> so i can now get my fix of linux inside virtualbox
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17:33:42 <Ammler> Rubidium: who did upload the 2cc?
17:33:53 <Ammler> looks like it wasn't djnekkid
17:34:27 <Ammler> (older version then in our pack)
17:36:17 <Ammler> first illegal upload ;-)
17:41:26 <Rubidium> Ammler: someone with DJNekkid as nick uploaded
17:42:07 <Eddi|zuHause> is the 2cc set GPL?
17:42:53 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: that doesn't matter, as bananas states quite obvious you can only upload something you own (you can't claim that even if it's gpl)
17:42:53 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: the rules of BaNaNaS don't allow uploading GPL content if you are not the owner
17:43:12 <Ammler> or did I get it wrong?
17:43:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but who _IS_ the "owner" of a GPL project?
17:43:54 <Sacro> you still retain ownership of your input
17:44:00 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: "they" are wokring on a multi-user thing...
17:44:05 <Sacro> the issue comes with public domain
17:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a concept that contradicts the spirit of the GPL
17:44:14 <Rubidium> don't mix words... it's author not owner
17:44:38 <Sacro> THE CAPITALISATION, MY EYES DX
17:44:50 <Eddi|zuHause> author... fine... then i can upload a GPL project as soon as i have made modification to it?
17:45:02 <Ammler> "You will only upload content of which you are the original author."
17:45:28 <Sacro> also, s/, which services/that serves/ please god
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17:45:55 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: so, you can't
17:46:28 * Sacro makes a request that no more foreigners write english pages
17:46:39 <SpComb> author seems to imply copyright
17:46:49 <Sacro> SpComb: author implies creator
17:46:54 <SpComb> and who owns the copyright to something is independant of the GPL license
17:46:58 <Sacro> owner would imply copyright
17:47:14 <glx> GPL doesn't imply no copyright
17:47:26 <Sacro> what about PD graphics?
17:47:52 <Yexo> Sacro: PD doesn't exist in all countries
17:48:03 <Sacro> glx: UK has PD too afaik
17:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't claim that GPL implys no copyright, but if i adopt a (possibly abandoned) GPL project, or make a fork, why would you exclude me from bananas?
17:48:47 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: you could technically only upload that which you have created
17:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> where i have all legal right to distribute the project otherwise
17:49:03 <SpComb> uploading a GPL project to bananas wouldn't violate the license, but it would violate banana's terms as pasted above by Ammler
17:49:07 <Ammler> because you could annoy the original author, if he appears again :-)
17:49:24 <SpComb> since the GPL gives you the right to distribute it
17:49:29 <Sacro> Ammler: who cares? he released it under GPL
17:49:33 <Sacro> he can STFU as far as that goes
17:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: yes, i know that, hence why i oppose to the bananas' terms
17:50:15 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: this term is probably their to make grf authors happy :)
17:50:17 <SpComb> I gather the ultimate intention of bananas is to give the graphics artists control over how their graphics are used
17:50:53 <Ammler> is the coder of a set a original author?
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17:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause> there are other caveats: if a grf is a team project, no single member of the team is allowed to upload it to bananas
17:51:20 <SpComb> a set can have multiple auathors
17:52:01 <Sacro> SpComb: but none can upload it
17:52:09 <Yexo> <Ammler> is the coder of a set a original author? <- I'd say one of the original authors.
17:52:47 <Sacro> none of us is as powerful as all of us
17:52:53 <SpComb> where are those terms listed?
17:53:00 <SpComb> do you need to login to see them?
17:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: by german copyright, "author" is any participator that made a sufficiently creative contribution
17:53:11 <Ammler> you might need to register to view it
17:53:35 <glx> it works but will be be improved
17:53:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that is exactly why i want to point out flaws ;)
17:53:39 <Ammler> openttd is still wip :-)
17:53:55 <Sacro> AFACT that policy is unenforcable
17:54:05 <Sacro> nowhere do you agree to it
17:54:09 <glx> the main goal was the AIs
17:54:21 <Sacro> When you sign up you don't agree to the policy
17:54:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: by that definition, "coder" is an author, unless his "work" merely consisted of copy-pasting an existing example
17:54:29 <Sacro> and there is no "By using this site you agree to:"
17:54:37 <Ammler> Sacro: you can register without agree
17:54:39 <Sacro> so it can probably be ignored
17:54:51 <Sacro> Ammler: yep, thus privacy policy is quite likly unenforcable anyway
17:54:54 <Ammler> agreement is only needed if you like to upload
17:55:03 <Sacro> hmm, where is that states?
17:55:23 <Ammler> that page comes after reg.
17:55:46 <Ammler> (you might need to sign up)
17:56:00 <Ammler> then try again the link
17:56:23 * Rubidium reslaps TrueBrain about that issue
17:56:37 <SpComb> Sacro: go back to manager
17:56:39 <Sacro> hm, that might be unenforcable too
17:56:57 <Sacro> you have to accept the form to view it
17:57:09 <SpComb> I'm not sure the "enforcement" really matters, it's not like OpenTTD's going to sue you if you voilate those
17:57:24 <SpComb> it's more a question of intentions and how those are worded
17:57:34 <Sacro> "ITS UNIQUE IDENTIFIER" NO DAMNED APOSTROPHE
17:58:02 * Sacro will correct that page and e-mail it to the proper authorities
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18:03:03 <Ammler> [18:54] <glx> other stuff is a bonus <-- but a lot complicater ;-)
18:05:17 <Ammler> will you really allow other license then GPL for ais?
18:05:45 <SpComb> whatever the license is it needs to give OpenTTD the right to redistribute it
18:06:16 <Ammler> SpComb, didn't find a "official" license which doesn't
18:06:39 <Ammler> Yexo: because noai is new
18:07:41 <Ammler> it shouldn't be handled that complicated like newgrfs
18:11:54 <Wolf01> I have a symple question about the content download: if I handle the grf folder with SVN to keep it in sync with my 3 computers and since I change names for the files to keep all the versions, what does happen if I download the updated content?
18:12:13 <George> Question about online content feature. Why when I press to dowload new WrightAI, it reports 21K done, but when I close OTTD and start it again, it loses the previous result and I have to download AI again. Why isn't it stored?
18:12:41 <Rubidium> Wolf01: everything that gets downloaded gets an unique name; it won't remove stuff
18:13:14 <Rubidium> George: most likely because it can't find the new wrightai, although that's strange
18:13:25 <Rubidium> did you compile OpenTTD yourself?
18:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> <SpComb> whatever the license is it needs to give OpenTTD the right to redistribute it <- why would it? at least in german copyright, temporary distribution for technical reasons can be done without license (and without payment)
18:13:43 <Wolf01> Rubidium, but the updated grf will be put in the same folder of the current grf?
18:14:19 <Rubidium> nope, all in $personal_dir/content_download/[ai|data]/
18:14:28 <George> Rubidium: Me??? Never :D
18:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that mainly means you can copy a program from a storage medium to ram, in order to execute it
18:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but it must then again be removed from the ram
18:14:59 <George> Rubidium: but OTTD reports 21 Kb downloaded
18:15:23 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause/SpComb: the idea is that people grant us the rights to distribute their NewGRF to our clients, so the license doesn't really matter
18:15:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and you are not allowed to access that ram for means other than executing
18:15:38 <Rubidium> George: it doesn't say that it completed?
18:16:06 <George> it says "dounload complete" Ok
18:16:52 <Rubidium> got no idea what's wrong in that case
18:17:02 <Rubidium> George: a screenshot doesn't tell me anything
18:17:22 <George> And where should it save the downloaded content?
18:17:43 <Rubidium> you know where openttd.cfg is?
18:18:19 <Rubidium> in that directory should be a content_download directory which has an ai directory and in there the tar of wrightai should be
18:19:32 <Ammler> Rubidium: will there ever be a webdownload?
18:19:40 <George> Ah, it is in my personal folder, while AI should be in OTTD folder. So it does not unpack it to required place?
18:20:37 <Rubidium> George: AIs can also be in your personal folder
18:20:48 <Ammler> would be nice, else you have to maintain multiple localtions
18:21:29 <George> and what should happen if they are in both the folders?
18:22:05 <Rubidium> it should be searching both and find them in both... unless...
18:23:09 <Rubidium> the AI searching algorithm finds all, but only uses one and (internally) discards the others
18:24:08 <Rubidium> so you've got two AIs with the same version number and apparantly it chooses the one that didn't get downloaded via the content system
18:25:23 <Rubidium> so to solve your "problem" for now you have to remove the old wrightai directory
18:25:37 <George> Rubidium: I've moved all the data into the game folder, so now I have only one folder. The problem remains
18:26:01 <Wolf01> George, do you think is it possible to add a little description of the parameters for ECS on the grf description? I always forget about them each time I update and I have to set them all again
18:26:24 <George> Wolf01: feel free to make it
18:26:53 <Ammler> I guess, he meant to Action8
18:27:09 <Wolf01> that's it, thank you Ammler
18:27:57 <George> Wolf01: suggest a text. The text from the wiki is too big for this window
18:28:01 <Rubidium> George: as I said you should remove the wrightai directory/install you've got
18:28:15 <Rubidium> or wait till a new wrightai (with higher version number) gets distributed
18:30:01 <George> Rubidium: Should I manally install all the downloaded files?
18:30:46 <George> Rubidium: and how should I say OTTD to do it?
18:30:54 <Rubidium> it's a conflict of TWO versions of the AI with the SAME version number that causes the problem
18:31:31 <Rubidium> the solution is: a) removing the "wrong" AI, b) wait till a new AI gets distributed with the right version number
18:32:09 <Zuu> c) remove the "wrong" and the "right" AI and then install the right from the content server
18:32:22 <Rubidium> that's effectively a
18:32:42 <Zuu> If you are sure which is the wrong and right version.
18:32:51 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: Yes, but makes sure you remove the right wrong AI.
18:33:16 <Prof_Frink> Or indeed, the right wrong wrightAI.
18:33:35 <glx> would be nice to have a "global" content_download and "local" openttd.cfg
18:33:41 <glx> useful for multiple install
18:33:46 <Zuu> Though it is quite unlikely the right wrong wrightAI is in the content_download directory.
18:34:10 <Zuu> eh, the wrong wright AI..
18:34:30 <Prof_Frink> glx: That's what symlinks are for.
18:35:48 <Rubidium> glx: implement it ;)
18:36:05 <Wolf01> oh, another thing, I don't know if it's a bug of OTTD or a behavior of you grfs: if I set 0 0 1 15 as parameters for basic vector, coal mines shouldn't close because I enabled both endless mines (harvest=0) and don't close mines until exhausted, but I found that coal mines are harvested and can reach 0 but the resources will be added again randomly and manually placed mines will close randomly
18:36:40 <glx> Rubidium: as I understand it (reading the diff), you based it on "save" code
18:36:49 <George> Wolf01: basick vector has only 2!!!! parameters
18:37:24 <Wolf01> uhm yes, that was the town vector maybe
18:37:46 <Wolf01> in fact basic has 0 15
18:38:52 <Wolf01> George, I always set the parameters using the wiki :P (that's why I asked for adding them to the grf description)
18:40:04 <George> Then you can easily suggest a text for action 8 :D
18:41:23 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15140 /trunk/ (Makefile.bundle.in bin/ai/library/): -Cleanup (r15128): remove AI installation/bundling as we don't distribute AIs via the bundles anymore
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18:42:52 <George> Rubidium: Yexo and what about a possibility to select AIs to play with in advanced settings menu?
18:43:03 <Yexo> George: working on it :)
18:43:26 <Yexo> awaiting review by Rubidium / glx now
18:43:40 <George> Yexo: would it allow sorting AIs?
18:43:52 <George> I mean what AI starts first
18:44:06 <Yexo> it allows you to chose one AI per company slot
18:44:14 <Yexo> and they are started in the order you configure them
18:44:17 <glx> George: it will allow easy management of [ai_players] section
18:44:34 <petern> if people are going to upload random stuff do we need to moderate it?
18:46:20 <Wolf01> and what about the closure of mines question?
18:46:54 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r15141 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:46:54 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-18 18:46:25
18:46:54 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: czech - 51 fixed by Hadez (51)
18:46:54 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: dutch - 30 fixed by Excel20 (30)
18:46:54 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: finnish - 51 fixed by jpx_ (51)
18:46:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: french - 51 fixed by glx (51)
18:46:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: hebrew - 50 fixed by tarkil (50)
18:52:32 <Ammler> [19:33] <glx> would be nice to have a "global" content_download and "local" openttd.cfg <-- or something like a local overwrite function, so you can keep some settings global
18:53:08 <glx> Ammler: hard to implement I think
18:54:20 <Ammler> does openttd load the cfg multiple times?
18:54:42 <Ammler> hmm, well, hard to know, where to write changes
18:55:43 <George> provide a savegame before the mine is closed
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19:01:36 <Wolf01> TTRSv3 + all ECS + DB set + eGRVTS + UKRS + ISRv8 and other stations grfs :P
19:01:44 *** Hirundo is now known as Swallow
19:08:02 <George> ECS Basic vector has paramer 15, not 0 15. And ECS should be loaded FIRST, before any GRF that uses cargoes, like stations, vehicles, houses!
19:10:00 <George> And how did you made wrightAI to use RVs?
19:11:42 <Wolf01> that was an old game, and when I loaded it with the latest trunk the AI become wrightAI
19:12:03 <George> Rubidium: When I press check online content in newgrf window, OTTD crashes
19:13:55 <Rubidium> George: can't reproduce it myself
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19:14:29 <Zuu> Also, if Woulf01 would have used say Convoy and uploaded the save, but I don't have Convoy, then a random AI will be picked. As of how it works now. But one of the goals with bananas was to address this issue if I recall correctly. But as we know bananas is WIP.
19:15:25 <George> Rubidium: it happens only when I load the savegame by Wolf01, it reports, that some GRFs are missing, and then I press it in newgrf window
19:15:47 <George> in the main window it works well here too
19:22:48 <George> Rubidium: I try to download new tram tracks with online content feature, and it reports 333Kb downloaded, but in content folder I find a tar of 580Kb!
19:23:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15142 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15126): missing NewGRFs cause a crash when getting the content list.
19:24:04 <petern> the download is compressed
19:24:08 <Rubidium> George: it downloads 333 KiB compressed and then uncompresses it
19:24:25 <petern> openttd can't read compressed files yet
19:24:53 <TrueBrain> Ammler: you should be able to upload your swiss-grf file thingy correctly now
19:25:16 <petern> so is the "2cc Trainset" uploaded by a random person?
19:25:16 <Wolf01> .tar is not compressed
19:25:16 <George> and a grf file inside has a strange name Desctop.tar
19:25:32 <Ammler> petern: rubidum said djnekkid :-)
19:25:49 <yorick> that doesn't mean it has to be dj nekkid
19:26:08 <Ammler> but somehow strange as he made a bugfix release at 29. dec
19:28:05 <Ammler> TrueBrain: shall I "fake" a new version
19:28:24 <Ammler> so the people get a update
19:28:33 <TrueBrain> we removed your current grfs
19:28:46 <Ammler> I meant those who already downloaded it
19:29:02 <TrueBrain> hmm .. updates are checked against uniqueid/uniquemd5, not Rubidium?
19:29:15 <TrueBrain> Ammler: those who already downloaded them can't load them
19:29:21 <TrueBrain> so 'updating' won't happen at all I guess :p
19:29:38 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I changed the md5sum of Ammler's wrong ones to something invalid
19:29:44 <Ammler> well, I meant with "fake" a new version also change md5sum
19:29:55 <petern> dbg: [misc] The file '/home/petern/.openttd/content_download/data/New_Tram_Tracks.0.4.1/Desktop.tar' isn't a valid tar-file
19:29:57 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that I noticed ;)
19:30:29 <Ammler> TrueBrain: can I use now bz2 again?
19:30:34 <TrueBrain> removed New_Tram_Tracks from content server ;)
19:30:39 <TrueBrain> Ammler: you always could :)
19:30:47 <TrueBrain> just the in-tar file had the wrong extension
19:31:05 <TrueBrain> (.tar or .tar.bz2 or .tar.gz or .zip (which ever format you uploaded in)), instead of grf ;)
19:31:47 <TrueBrain> there are 19 ways to upload a file to the system ... I could only test so many ;)
19:31:58 <TrueBrain> who uploaded newtramtracks?
19:31:59 <petern> hmm, no nightly yet ;(
19:32:14 <TrueBrain> petern: 2 more minutes
19:32:17 <petern> you're the one with database access
19:32:25 <George> petern: About uploading. How can I fix the license entry if selected it wrong? As you can see, ECS Chemical vector has by acident CC-SA while all other files are CC-ND
19:32:38 <petern> George: absolutely no idea
19:32:48 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: to get a drink? Good idea :)
19:32:58 <TrueBrain> (foobar is the name of the cafe inside our IT department ;))
19:33:12 <TrueBrain> George: upload a new one, and select the right license :)
19:33:27 <petern> so users can't change details in their uploads? :o
19:33:37 <George> TrueBrain: do you mean update the file with the same file?
19:33:39 <TrueBrain> petern: you can change most details
19:33:42 <TrueBrain> just the LICENSE file is included in the tar
19:33:48 <TrueBrain> so .. not possible to change after upload :)
19:33:54 <TrueBrain> (people could already hav edownloaded them)
19:34:17 <TrueBrain> selecting the wrong license is just a bit stupid ;) You should always double check :) Mwhahaha :)
19:34:20 <petern> how do custom licenses work?
19:34:21 <TrueBrain> George: which file?
19:34:46 <TrueBrain> petern: you supply a license in the tar
19:34:47 <George> TrueBrain: ECS Chemical vector II
19:34:49 <Rubidium> people have to supply a license file in their archive they upload
19:35:25 <George> Rubidium: I could not upload rar archive, so I had to upload GRF itself
19:35:26 <TrueBrain> George: I removed it from the DB, you are free to reupload it
19:35:29 <Ammler> (content GUI has no newline support)
19:35:38 <Ammler> just question marks are there
19:35:42 <TrueBrain> rar support .. now that is a nice one :)
19:35:52 <George> petern: rar. I use rar
19:36:13 <Zuu> Ammler: That was fixed earlier today I think.
19:37:03 <Zuu> -Fix/Change: allow str_validate (part of receiving strings from the network) to pass newlines instead of replacing them with question marks, but only when asked to do so.
19:37:23 <Ammler> he, just uploaded and already a download :-)
19:37:35 <petern> TrueBrain, your two minutes are well over
19:37:46 <TrueBrain> Ammler: the content service really does work ;)
19:37:51 <Rubidium> 20:35 <@DorpsGek> CompileFarm: nightly (r15141) completed.
19:38:01 <Rubidium> which is two minutes ago
19:38:20 <TrueBrain> I do know my baby ;)
19:38:24 <petern> which was a minute after TrueBrain gave me two ;)
19:39:09 <petern> how long does it take to transfer to the site then?
19:39:17 <TrueBrain> petern: depends on how you look at your clock :)
19:39:34 <Rubidium> the frontpage is cached and that's refreshed every 5 minutes
19:39:45 <TrueBrain> petern: when ever DorpsGek tells about it in #openttd.notice .. then the cache update :)
19:39:49 <George> and thy do online content does not suggest to upload a new version of OTTD?
19:39:58 * TrueBrain considers removing the cache :p
19:40:13 <Ammler> TrueBrain: how sure are you, that it works now?
19:40:42 <Ammler> or how much would you bet ;-)
19:41:05 <Ammler> I still have tar.bz2 in my tar
19:41:21 <TrueBrain> Ammler: how did you manage to do that ......
19:42:22 <Ammler> it still works with rename to *.grf
19:42:40 <petern> you shouldn't need to rename it after downloading...
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19:43:05 <petern> can we please change the default networking debug level for dedicated servers?
19:43:17 <Ammler> I am wondering, nobody else used the pack upload mode.
19:45:03 <Ammler> and TrueBrain, html should also be allowed as readme extension
19:45:24 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I disagree with you on that :)
19:45:30 <TrueBrain> .txt and .pdf should be fine
19:45:36 <TrueBrain> .html is a VERY SUCKY format for licenses ...
19:48:15 <petern> then there is the possibility that it may be shown in openttd at some point
19:48:17 <George> I've downloaded new tram tracks 0.4.1 with online content feature, but can't add to newgrfs list, because OTTD does not see such GRF
19:48:36 <TrueBrain> I agree with you petern :)
19:49:06 <Ammler> that is indeed a good argument to exclude pdf, too.
19:49:07 <TrueBrain> George: new tram tracks 0.4.1 experiences same error as Ammler :)
19:49:11 <TrueBrain> it is removed from the content service
19:49:11 <petern> George, pay attention, it has been removed.
19:49:31 <petern> BaNaNaS needs a revokation system :/
19:49:56 <TrueBrain> massive client removal when required ;)
19:50:04 <TrueBrain> Ammler: do you have a http address with the packag eyou try to upload?
19:50:19 <petern> hmm, signed content? heh
19:50:23 <George> But what to dow with downloaded file? to delete it and use old 0.4? Fortunately I have a back up
19:51:02 <TrueBrain> George: give us a sec to fix things :)
19:52:59 <Prof_Frink> Heh this AI has a 13 year old Dinger 200. What do you think its next oldest plane is?
19:54:02 * Zuu is playing around with 'scrollto' command in the title screen. :-)
19:54:28 <Zuu> Enabling smooth scrolling makes it a bit easier to find interesting things. :)
19:54:37 <Prof_Frink> That's right, a 71 year old Vickers Viscount.
19:54:49 <petern> oh you beat me to it :(
19:57:37 <TrueBrain> Ammler: uploading on the test-site works perfectly
19:57:41 <TrueBrain> so I see no reason why the live would fuck up ...
19:57:44 <TrueBrain> can you try again please? :)
19:58:34 <petern> damn, none of the grfs on my server are on bananas
19:59:10 <TrueBrain> btw, .rar support is added for uploading
20:00:09 <Ammler> hmm, if I have a grfcrawler entry
20:00:17 <Ammler> do I need to add the url?
20:00:27 <Prof_Frink> petern: Shout at the grf authors until they stick 'em on!
20:00:31 <Ammler> or will you create a link to the crawler anyway?
20:01:00 <orudge> TrueBrain: we finally have the domain transfer codes :)
20:01:18 <TrueBrain> orudge: about time!!
20:04:52 <TrueBrain> Ammler: now it is correct
20:04:54 <TrueBrain> and I didn't touch it :p
20:05:55 <Ammler> but it wasn't in the newgrf list
20:06:41 <TrueBrain> petern: can you check if the cache problem of yesterday happens now?
20:06:57 <TrueBrain> nevermind, I see it right in my face :p
20:07:03 <Ammler> TrueBrain: is it already possible to hide somehow a grf from some revs
20:07:26 <Ammler> just available with the specific md5sum
20:07:42 <TrueBrain> if only I knew what he was asking ..
20:08:10 <Ammler> I uploaded a grf and defined min version to nightly 99999
20:08:29 <Ammler> but it is still available in the content list
20:08:31 <TrueBrain> I should prevent that abuse I guess ...
20:08:40 <Ammler> glx: how should I do that?
20:08:40 <TrueBrain> and why do you ask me that?
20:08:47 <TrueBrain> why would you ever want to do that
20:08:50 <TrueBrain> either upload a grf, or don't
20:08:54 <orudge> TrueBrain: so, do you want the name servers left as liefdeis for now?
20:08:55 <TrueBrain> but uploading for some unreal revision ..
20:09:14 <Ammler> that grf is only useable for a patched release
20:09:14 <TrueBrain> orudge: you were going to take over the ns, not?
20:09:19 <orudge> TrueBrain: I can do, yes
20:09:20 <TrueBrain> orudge: that was the request ;)
20:09:26 <TrueBrain> Ammler: then don't upload it at all
20:09:30 <TrueBrain> rather useless and pointless
20:09:31 <orudge> but there have been some new DNS entries since, so we'd best synchronise things ;)
20:09:46 <glx> bananas is for stable and trunk (compatible) versions
20:09:48 <TrueBrain> orudge: please do :) And if possible, hav esomething for us to add entries ;)
20:10:08 <Ammler> what is min version "custom" for then?
20:10:14 <orudge> I can likely sort something out for the entry thing
20:10:16 <petern> unless you allowed zone transfers...
20:11:02 <TrueBrain> orudge: would be nice :)
20:11:16 <TrueBrain> petern: openttd.org gives all details ;)
20:11:21 <TrueBrain> we have nothing to hide, really :)
20:12:00 <Ammler> well, currently it is nightly only anyway
20:12:07 <Rubidium> Ammler: custom allows you to specifically enter the '_openttd_newgrf_version' style version number
20:12:21 <Ammler> but you will have that after it get stable state anyway
20:13:07 <Ammler> like ECS needs nightly
20:13:20 <Ammler> but it has also ECS which would work with 0.6.3
20:14:14 <Rubidium> Ammler: you would get the last 'marked' working (for your version)
20:14:34 <Ammler> and how do I mark my grf?
20:14:37 <Rubidium> i.e. the last with where your _openttd_newgrf_version falls between the min and max version number
20:16:05 <George> Ammler: What ECS version works in 0.6.3?
20:16:23 <Ammler> George: dunno, just a example :-)
20:16:42 <Rubidium> George: alpha1-ish or so?
20:17:36 <George> Rubidium: I can't say alpha 1 WORK :S
20:17:55 <Ammler> I gess, until december
20:18:32 <TrueBrain> django is failing on me ...
20:18:58 <Ammler> at least someone complained that the ECS of coop pack doesn't work anymore on his server
20:19:25 <Ammler> so I assume, it did earlier :-)
20:20:51 <Ammler> we weren't able to make a ECS game, yet.
20:21:11 <Ammler> so no need to backwards compatibilty for. ;-)
20:22:01 <George> AFAIR, I could not run ECS on 0.6.3. But may be I did not want to do it much.
20:23:51 <Ammler> We/I never play stable
20:25:25 <TrueBrain> petern: let me know if the cache problems of yesterday returns
20:25:28 <TrueBrain> the cache is now disabled ;) :p
20:25:53 <orudge> TrueBrain: OK, it seems it'll take up to a few days to process, but should now go through OK
20:26:32 <TrueBrain> orudge: if the other side helps, it can be done within a few minutes :p
20:26:40 <orudge> they got an e-mail from godaddy
20:26:41 <TrueBrain> if not, a 5 day expire is in place yes :p
20:26:46 <orudge> apparently it doesn't have an "instant approve" button though
20:26:52 <orudge> if they want it to proceed, "do nothing"!
20:26:56 <orudge> so we have to wait it seems
20:27:14 <TrueBrain> there is one, but hidden
20:27:32 <orudge> the domains will then be registered until 2011
20:30:26 <orudge> DNS should be up-to-date now
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20:42:14 <orudge> ludde's brother, as I recall
20:42:34 <SpComb> who is it being trasferred to?
20:43:13 <SpComb> I thought OpenTTD operated their own infrastructure these days
20:43:25 <orudge> but they don't have their own domain registrar
20:43:41 * orudge deals with OpenTTD's money-type stuff, so it's also convenient for him to own and renew the domain
20:43:45 <orudge> and host the DNS now, too
20:50:32 <Aali> who wrote the center company patch?
20:50:55 <Ammler> SmatZ: if you mean center_player
20:58:10 <Aali> you're not supposed to say player anymore
21:08:48 <Ammler> well, I trust SmatZ :P
21:09:19 <Yexo> center_player was (is?) from before r14421
21:09:38 <Ammler> well, there is one with >1500
21:10:26 <Ammler> it is really nice to watch a mp game with
21:10:49 * Yexo has still the r13210 patch around :o
21:10:53 <Ammler> specially coop, might not be fun for other servers :-)
21:13:59 <Sacro> A bad workman blames his fools
21:17:27 <SmatZ> Aali: yeah, it is not very recent patch... at least I recently changed string names :-P
21:20:12 <Aali> I've noticed some odd behaviour, sometimes it follows the wrong company or more than one company
21:20:30 *** SHRIKEE has joined #openttd
21:21:03 <Aali> don't really care if you fix it, it works 99% of the time, just thought you might want to know :P
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21:35:23 <Ammler> hmm, everything ok with 2cc :-)
21:40:51 <TrueBrain> petern: do you know why your 'grfid' fails over openttdw.grf?
21:41:00 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15143 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/ (contentserver/tcp.cpp shared/string.cpp shared/string_func.h): [MSU] -Fix: small memleak and some compile errors due to changes in trunk.
21:48:24 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: might be because it uses a GRF ID in a reserved range; "reserved for internal patch purposes" according to the NewGRF specs, but we do the same ;)
21:49:11 <TrueBrain> all I know it tells me the grfid is wrong :p
21:50:16 <petern> change "while (lines-- > 0) {" to "while (true) {"
21:51:17 <TrueBrain> petern: you are sure that it then never loops for ever?
21:51:46 <petern> could do, but then openttd would have the same problem
21:52:00 <TrueBrain> problem here is that it is a webserver
21:52:04 <TrueBrain> and that it would be a nasty way to kill it :p
21:52:43 <petern> while (_buffer < _file_buffer + _file_length) {
21:52:53 <TrueBrain> maybe we can make it a small project in /extra/grfid?
21:53:35 <TrueBrain> k, that change seems to work
21:56:13 <petern> i dunno, dodgy grfs :p
21:56:41 <TrueBrain> you just made foobar happy I guess
21:58:10 <petern> he should fix his grf :p
21:58:40 <TrueBrain> sucky person, broken grfs, pfff
22:13:06 <TrueBrain> Ammler: any reason why you feel more special and created two accounts?
22:21:32 *** Guest796 is now known as planetmaker
22:24:43 <dihedral> have had sum ap+ deving fun
22:24:49 <dihedral> and the fun continues
22:26:02 <planetmaker> I just came home from the WE and found bananas in my fruit basket. What a nice surprise! :)
22:26:30 <Zuu> planetmaker: At least you knew about it on beforehand :)
22:26:50 <TrueBrain> hmm .. banananas!!!!
22:27:12 <planetmaker> I heard they're good for the bones ;)
22:27:21 <planetmaker> They give strenght :)
22:28:36 * TrueBrain welcomes OpenGFX to BaNaNaS! :)
22:29:33 <planetmaker> he... :) Just downloading it :)
22:31:00 <Zuu> The discreption of it has some wierd line breaks in-game, but else looks good.
22:31:33 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
22:31:56 <TrueBrain> night Digitalfox :p
22:32:11 <Zuu> My juice says "good morning"
22:32:17 <George> what var controls the distance between wagons on map and in depot for trains?
22:33:38 <George> TTD had 32 px on map and 28 px in depot, but I remember I read that they both can be set to 32 px. How?
22:33:51 <Digitalfox> In message Options -> Closing of Industries... Does it also apply to the player industries? Like if I turn it off, will I be informed that my industries will close?
22:34:31 <Yexo> my industries <- you cannot "own" any industries
22:34:31 <petern> oh dear, opengfx has black blocks :/
22:34:42 <petern> George: it's an action d writable variable, iirc
22:35:24 <Digitalfox> Yexo yeah, but you understand what I ask ;)
22:35:47 <Digitalfox> I'm referring to industries served by me the player :)
22:35:52 <TrueBrain> bah .. what to do when a java application has a lock on your alsa driver? :(
22:36:26 <TrueBrain> no, I kind of need it at the moment :p
22:36:28 <George> petern: Ah, I see, var (9E). Thank you. Now, according to my question about gap betweer RV parts. Setting var (9E) should fix it?
22:36:35 <Yexo> Digitalfox: I'm not sure, but I think you won't get any close message at all
22:37:08 <Yexo> Yexo yeah, but you understand what I ask ;) <- at first I thought you were referring to industries build (fund) by you
22:37:48 <Digitalfox> Valid point Yexo...
22:38:01 <Digitalfox> Forgot about that point =0
22:44:18 <George> petern: changing var 9e did not help. Does it affect ARV?
22:45:06 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r15144 /trunk/src/ (fios.cpp fios.h openttd.cpp saveload/oldloader.cpp):
22:45:06 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Codechange: make sure we don't run out of bounds while determining old savegame name
22:45:06 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: Note this can't happen in current code
22:53:42 <SmatZ> yeah, I know it is broken :-/
22:55:15 <SmatZ> already working on it ;)
23:15:55 <petern> why are we using seprintf there?
23:16:24 <TrueBrain> seprintf rules them all! :p
23:16:25 <petern> and a lot of other places too, apparently
23:17:39 <SmatZ> it's a big security problem now
23:17:41 <TrueBrain> what does the 'e' do?
23:18:06 <SmatZ> (with savegame with %s in name...)
23:18:11 <petern> presumably snprintf is too tricky :)
23:18:14 <SmatZ> but I have different patch now...
23:18:15 <petern> SmatZ: exactly my point
23:18:30 <SmatZ> I was splitting the patch and did it wrongly :-P
23:18:35 <petern> but printf for things like " ??"
23:18:42 <petern> that does not need to be formatted...
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23:26:49 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r15145 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt saveload/oldloader.cpp):
23:26:49 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Fix: crash when one tried to load a TTO savegame
23:26:49 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Fix (r15144): it wasn't safe at all, but the code broken code isn't needed anymore
23:29:50 <TrueBrain> you are very welcome :)
23:34:09 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r15146 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader.cpp: -Fix: show savegame name even when opening it failed
23:47:18 *** Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen
continue to next day ⏵
