IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-19
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00:09:33 <Zuu> el_en: Eh, that is on wikipedia, not wiki.openttd.org
00:10:06 <Zuu> You could try to see if any of the aircraft sets include that aircraft.
00:23:23 <Aali> in my opinion, it's pretty bad
00:23:41 <Aali> so it should fit right in with the other junctions on the wiki :)
00:24:36 <jerker> what kind of junctions do you like then?
00:24:47 <jerker> this one is optimized for compactness
00:26:19 <jerker> i am almost thinking of rating all junction regards to speed and space utilization and perhaps cost..
00:26:39 <jerker> and of course penalizing those that may cause deadlocks
00:28:28 <roboboy> that bridge in the mainline would also be a problem as you could only have one train on it
00:29:21 <roboboy> similar thing with the tunnel except it is not on the mainline
00:29:48 <jerker> you mean the distance between the trains?
00:31:05 <jerker> the path based signaling should allow trains going south>>east at the same time as east>>north
00:32:35 <jerker> and north>>east same time as east>>south
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00:33:39 <Aali> yes but two trains on the mainline will be spaced out by 7 tiles after that junction
00:33:46 <Aali> thats a pretty bad signal gap
00:35:14 <Zuu> Aali: Depends on if you use 7 as signal gap all over or not :-)
00:35:42 <Aali> the picture shows a signal distance of 2 tiles
00:36:25 <Zuu> Using someting like 5-6 makes it possible to use bridges etc. more freely than with 2 tiles. - Have not viewed the screenshot though.
00:36:53 <Aali> oh and since its "missing" a signal that actually makes the signal distance 8 for that mainline
00:38:10 <jerker> the missing signal may be ignored. :)
00:38:38 <jerker> signal distance is a good metric. have to add it to rating junctions.
00:38:42 <Aali> the only thing PBS does in this junction is allowing a train to exit the mainline while another merges, under the bridge, the other PBS signals are perfect examples of bad PBS, where PBS doesn't really gain you anything
00:39:36 <Aali> look at the other PBS segments, can two trains really reserve two separate paths through those segments?
00:39:37 <jerker> i mean, the point is to allow trains at the same time to merge while another branches
00:39:47 <Aali> no, because there's only one exit/entrance
00:40:23 <jerker> Aali: yes, at both PBS ther are two exits and two entrances
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00:41:18 <jerker> thats the point they are there, otherwise the junction could use two more tiles and blocked based signaling
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00:41:40 <Aali> which would have been better
00:41:51 <Aali> then you would only have a 5 tile signal gap
00:42:08 <jerker> you are sacrificing compactness on the altar of speed.
00:42:36 <jerker> could be good for an alternative variant.
00:45:40 <jerker> Aali: thank you for the comments. Is "tiles" the correct unit for distance?
00:46:16 <jerker> (and thanks to roboboy and zuu too)
00:46:39 <Zuu> jerker: You're welcome :-)
00:47:10 <Aali> tiles is pretty much the only useful unit for distance
00:48:04 <Zuu> In vanilia OpenTTD trainset, you can count in wagons too. But with many other trainsets the wagons are not always a half tile long.
00:48:50 <Zuu> But the depot window count in wagon-length normalized to vanilia wagon-length.
00:49:27 <Aali> yeah, depots count in half-tiles, which is pretty much useless since all you really care about is how many tiles your train will occupy
00:50:20 <Zuu> Have for long wondered why my AI sometimes print "Not all errors cleared" as an error message, but did never search my code for the string. Now I found instead of errers it should be orders :-D
00:51:56 <Zuu> Aali: With realistic acceleration it could be usefull to have a train with odd wagon length if you like to fine tune the brake down spacing at stations.
00:53:04 <Zuu> hmm, not "brake down", rather "slow down" is more propper English :)
00:53:07 <Aali> but if you want to do that much fine-tuning the number in the depot wont help you either (unless all wagons are exactly one half tile)
00:53:45 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: glx * r15147 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r15146): compile before commit
00:59:05 <Sacro> Rubidium: you can't stop people recompiling and changing the server address!
01:03:45 <glx> Sacro: but they'll need the right protocol
01:04:33 <Zuu> And even if you can't make it impossible, you can not suppporting it.
01:10:06 <Sacro> glx: the server side code is available too :D
01:10:12 * Sacro sets up his own masterserver
01:10:52 <glx> Sacro: but it requires compilation too :)
01:11:32 <glx> what fabca demanded was to be able to use a simple http server without compilation
01:12:13 <goodger> in fact, forget the masterserver!
01:15:20 <Sacro> actually, forget the whole damn thing
01:15:30 <Sacro> sigh, 8 hours 15 till exam
01:15:38 <Sacro> I haven't a clue about software design
01:15:41 <Sacro> i just code like an idiot
01:17:05 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15148 /trunk/src/ (49 files in 4 dirs): -Cleanup: Remove the options "competitor start time" and "competitor intelligence" from the difficulty options because they already were unused.
01:18:40 <Zuu> First Yexo commit? Or am I mistaken?
01:25:54 <Zuu> Oh, I have not had time to browse the development forum, now that I have been coding on my PAXLink AI the entire weekend. :-)
01:37:16 *** markk is now known as Markk
01:41:32 <Aali> hmm, cargo truncation in cargodest should really remove "dead" cargo (no route found) first
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01:43:33 <Aali> now it does the opposite, it removes the newly generated cargo, the cargo you can actually transport somewhere
01:44:16 <Aali> and if the station never gets empty of "fresh" cargo, that dead cargo will sit at the bottom of the cargolist forever
01:44:39 <Aali> time to write a patch :)
01:45:20 <Yexo> time to write a patch :) <- no, time to merge cargodest to trunk :)
01:45:41 <Aali> surely you mean sync cargodest with trunk
01:45:54 <Aali> and I've already done that
01:46:13 <Yexo> get petern to commit that to the cargodest branch
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01:49:51 <Aali> ideally, someone with greater knowledge of the cargodest code (i.e. Celestar) should have a look at it
01:52:02 <Aali> but hey, no better way to weed out the bugs than to push it through to the general public :P
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07:20:06 <petern> anything else we feel the need to remove?
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07:26:20 <petern> odd, i have a Wastebin and a Wastebasket :/
07:41:19 <dihedral> openttd froze, when checking for 'content' from bananas, and no net connection was there
07:49:48 <Sacro> dihedral: don't do it then
07:56:45 <dihedral> OpenTTD should not freeze because of that!
07:59:19 <petern> it'll do that in the servers list, or used to...
08:05:00 <dihedral> can that not be handled?
08:06:40 <petern> yes, but i don't know the code
08:06:56 <petern> dbg: [ai] [2] [S] Your script made an error: the index 'GetParent' does not exist
08:32:10 <dihedral> petern: specifying a proxy in the config could be interesting :-P
08:37:33 <dihedral> 8:59 <petern> it'll do that in the servers list, or used to... <- just checked, it does not freeze in the lobby
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09:09:02 <petern> yeah, the connect call is not non-blocking
09:11:07 <dihedral> would also be nice to get an error window if the connection times out
09:12:33 <planetmaker> hm... after I log in to bananas I get a error 404 page.
09:14:00 <planetmaker> ... and the shown url is not bananas.openttd.org anymore, but www.openttd.org.
09:15:37 <planetmaker> give the URL a try, blathijs :)
09:16:41 <blathijs> What does ND mean in a CC license? Non-distributable?
09:16:55 <planetmaker> ah... and privacy policy and contact links don't work on bananas.openttd.org
09:17:13 <blathijs> I should google before I ask :-p
09:18:45 <dihedral> blathijs: bananas is probably too young for that :-P
09:19:03 <blathijs> dihedral: Googling CC-ND I meant :-)
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09:25:57 <VyperStryker> i kinda forgot how to do everything lol i havent played ottd in like 5 months
09:26:39 <planetmaker> press the power button of your PC.
09:27:00 <planetmaker> install OS of your choice
09:27:11 <planetmaker> download OpenTTD and start the binary.
09:27:21 <dihedral> wait.... planetmaker!
09:27:26 <dihedral> you forgot something
09:27:55 <VyperStryker> how do i turn off the music is priority #1 lol
09:28:11 <planetmaker> VyperStryker: press the button with the music notes...
09:28:18 <planetmaker> only available ingame.
09:28:37 <Rubidium> or start openttd with -m null as parameter
09:28:57 <planetmaker> next time though, the noise at startup is gone
09:29:21 <VyperStryker> what multiplayer to join.. lol
09:30:39 <dihedral> VyperStryker: one url for ya: wiki.openttd.org
09:30:57 <VyperStryker> i was already there for 1 and a half hours
09:31:02 <dihedral> two words: Gameplay Manual
09:31:14 <VyperStryker> thats how i know the irc chat
09:31:21 <dihedral> funny! because what you ask is mentioned there
09:31:25 <dihedral> + there is a search function
09:31:32 <George> Does global var 9E bit 3 work in OTTD?
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09:34:57 <petern> this was said last night
09:35:10 <George> Is it possible to apply it to ARV too?
09:37:31 <Rubidium> would it break existing ARV NewGRFs?
09:38:16 <George> It is the only set with ARVs, AFAIR
09:39:07 <petern> yeah but would it break it :D
09:40:12 <petern> you're testing it with 32 px viewu
09:43:39 <George> I'm testing with the current possibilities and look, how would it look with new size
09:51:58 <George> So, I suppose - No, we should not break existing sets
09:54:49 <petern> looks like the graphics are designed for 29 instead of 32 :/
09:55:07 <petern> we could add it as a new bit
09:55:12 <petern> keep train and rv flags separate
09:55:22 <petern> then it'll only be a problem if you mix lv5 and grvts
09:55:37 <petern> i don't see a problem with that
09:58:11 <petern> Rubidium, does that seem reasonable?
09:58:38 <VyperStryker> wow i suck at starting a buisness now
10:14:21 <petern> hmm, unless it does it in ttdpatch...
10:14:31 <petern> George, do you know if bit 3 affects rvs in ttdpatch?
10:19:17 <George> No, I do not. I even can't test it, because both my and eGRVTS code is OTTD only
10:20:30 <planetmaker> morning TrueBrain :)
10:23:41 <janitor> does the urban sprawl in the NA city set work in openttd?
10:26:15 <petern> return (length * 28) / 8;
10:26:50 <Rubidium> svn praise that line I'd say
10:28:49 <petern> also, bah - setting mouse pointer position does not work inside virtualbox
10:28:58 <petern> so right-click scrolling does not work properly :(
10:31:55 <petern> though maybe it should be left at 28, heh
10:37:17 <petern> George: are you able to test that patch?
10:38:36 <George> if you provide a win32 executable - yes. But I never compile myself
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11:39:08 <TrueBrain> there, now can people see if they are logged in or not ... I wonder if anyone would notice that, but okay :p
11:39:27 <petern> are there admin accounts?
11:39:45 <petern> so if someone uploads something they shouldn't've, i can remove or flag it?
11:39:51 <TrueBrain> just levels of authorization
11:40:13 <petern> bananas.openttd.org takes me to the main site now :p
11:40:17 <TrueBrain> currently, there is no such option yet
11:40:24 <TrueBrain> (well .. modifying the MySQL data is one option :p)
11:43:37 <TrueBrain> wtf is caching the page .....
11:44:09 <TrueBrain> same etag .. possible ...
11:44:54 <TrueBrain> I disabled all his methods to cache ...
11:45:31 <TrueBrain> still the frontpages jump ...
11:48:04 <TrueBrain> I have no idea what is caching those pages ....
11:49:06 <petern> hmm, Transrapid Track Set links to a license...
11:49:15 <TrueBrain> (I now very VERY explicit told him not to cache those pages ...)
11:49:36 <planetmaker> :) yep works now for me, too
11:49:41 <TrueBrain> petern: at least it is the license selected :p
11:50:11 <planetmaker> contact & privacy infor are still 404
11:54:03 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: nice one :)
11:54:29 <planetmaker> :) well, I guess I found some contact here :P
12:00:52 <TrueBrain> there you go planetmaker
12:02:19 <planetmaker> :) Can we have the author information also when looking into the sections themselves (not only at the latest 10 submissions)?
12:02:44 <TrueBrain> the 'author' doesn;t have to be one person
12:03:03 <planetmaker> e.g. the same view as in "BaNaNaS" for the NewGRFs, AIs,...
12:03:08 <planetmaker> well. Uploader then :)
12:03:25 <TrueBrain> that will make people angry
12:03:29 <TrueBrain> so we can list if for the latest 10 additions
12:03:33 <TrueBrain> as there one person did the upload
12:03:38 <TrueBrain> but we can't list it for the general overviews
12:03:41 <TrueBrain> as there all authors should be
12:03:49 <planetmaker> IMO it adds a certain bit of information which helps to understand what it is easier...
12:03:55 <planetmaker> But surely you've got a point...
12:04:48 <planetmaker> I thought of either something like "DJNekkid et al" or like "2cc team"
12:05:08 <planetmaker> for grfs with various authors. The latter might not be really additional info, though
12:07:16 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15149 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_town.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp town_gui.cpp): -Codechange: GetMaskOfTownActions() is used by a Cmd handler, therefore it does not belong in _gui.
12:11:43 <planetmaker> sometimes that command warrants a kick ;)
12:12:15 <FiCE> got the wrong channel :p
12:12:16 <planetmaker> Yexo: I know. I just didn't want to call names :)
12:12:20 <TrueBrain> @kick FiCE OTHER CHANNEL!
12:12:20 *** FiCE was kicked by DorpsGek (OTHER CHANNEL!)
12:12:30 <TrueBrain> I can play glx for a moment :)
12:12:55 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o Yexo
12:15:22 <TrueBrain> Yexo: if you register to DorpsGek, you can do it yourself :p
12:27:11 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o Yexo
12:27:14 <TrueBrain> now do it yourself :p
12:27:17 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o Yexo
12:27:19 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o Yexo
12:27:27 <TrueBrain> works on all #openttd channels where DorpsGek is in ;)
12:27:58 <TrueBrain> well, except wt2, but that is a completely other story :)
12:28:19 <Yexo> I've never even been there :p
12:28:44 <TrueBrain> well .. maybe once to see if DorpsGek joined :p
12:29:28 <dihedral> feel the presure :-D
12:29:35 <TrueBrain> damn .. I bought a few things a few days ago
12:29:41 <TrueBrain> but one item I can't find back anywhere in my house
12:29:46 <TrueBrain> (something to put on bread)
12:29:57 <TrueBrain> I really hav eno clue what so ever where it is ...
12:30:06 <TrueBrain> that is going to stink ...
12:30:24 <TrueBrain> I wish it was on my bread
12:30:27 <dihedral> fridge? freezer? left it in the shopping bag?
12:30:40 <dihedral> left it in the shop?
12:30:53 <TrueBrain> I am sure I bought it
12:30:57 <TrueBrain> I am pretty sure I put it in my bag
12:31:02 <TrueBrain> after that .. gone! :(
12:31:12 <TrueBrain> sad thing is, it is the second time this happens with this product :p
12:31:14 <TrueBrain> it seems to dislike me :)
12:31:56 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: was there any deja-vu feeling around that time?
12:32:09 <TrueBrain> no, last time I did leave it in my bag for a few days
12:32:13 <TrueBrain> it began to stink :p
12:32:52 <TrueBrain> petern: you never registerd to DorpsGek :)
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12:34:14 <Gekz> TrueBrain: I was considering setting up a debian repository for nightly builds
12:34:27 <Gekz> I already have the scripts ready and such
12:34:58 <TrueBrain> Rubidium / blathijs are still fixing the .deb in the svn .. when they do that, I will publish that on a nightly base (like with Gentoo)
12:35:20 <Gekz> you did not reply to my query
12:35:21 <blathijs> Gekz: I'd like to see what you have
12:35:31 <blathijs> No, you were away when I returned :-)
12:36:14 <Gekz> basically, I just have a script that unpacks the nightly build, and repacks it with the correct version
12:36:28 <Gekz> then a really simple script in reprepro that adds the files to their correct repos
12:36:32 <petern> why do that when you can build it correctly ;)
12:36:34 <Rubidium> the repository should also support the releases in a 'sane' manner
12:36:51 <Gekz> petern: the nightly server could build it correctly.
12:36:53 <blathijs> Gekz: What is the correct version then?
12:37:05 <Gekz> the version says 0.7~svn-1
12:37:13 <Gekz> it should have the revision number
12:37:18 <Gekz> otherwise apt wont see it as an update
12:37:19 <TrueBrain> Gentoo masked openttd-0.6.3 again, because the 'test' round failed
12:37:35 <Gekz> that's why i made this script
12:37:39 <blathijs> TrueBrain: test round?
12:37:40 <Gekz> it's faster than rebuilding it
12:37:49 <Gekz> what would probably be better is a ./configure scrip
12:37:49 <worldemar> TrueBrain: have link to failed test bugreport?
12:37:51 <blathijs> Gekz: In that case, we'll not use it
12:37:54 <Gekz> that modifies the control file
12:38:03 <Gekz> and changes the version on build
12:38:07 <blathijs> Gekz: Yeah, that's the proper solution
12:38:08 <Gekz> that would work much better.
12:38:13 <Rubidium> it's just that gentoo requires a 'test' target in the makefile
12:38:15 <Gekz> this wasnt for a proper solution :P
12:38:20 <Gekz> this was so I could test a debian repo
12:38:23 <Gekz> without bleeding my eyes
12:38:28 <Gekz> building 10 different packages
12:38:41 <Rubidium> but only when you set some 'global' flag
12:38:52 <Rubidium> not sure what the test thing should do though
12:39:10 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: in an ebuild you can also disable the testing
12:43:48 <Rubidium> Gekz: you know you can change/build the control file in rules? Seems like the perfect location to fix your problem
12:45:22 <Gekz> Rubidium: are the debs build using dpkg-buildpackage?
12:46:40 <TrueBrain> I give up on Gentoo .. they are impossible (slow)
12:47:25 <Rubidium> Gekz: not quite sure about that
12:47:39 <Gekz> then how are the rules going to be followed?
12:48:07 <SmatZ> nooo TrueBrain, don't give up! :-(
12:48:08 <blathijs> Gekz: Probably ./debian/rules binary is called directly
12:48:26 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: feel free to take over
12:48:34 <TrueBrain> and bitchslap them for their stupidyness ...
12:48:47 <SmatZ> what happened, TrueBrain?
12:49:20 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: well .. the 'test' phase fails of OpenTTD
12:49:31 <TrueBrain> and now a few complain that OpenTTD is wrong
12:49:35 <TrueBrain> as it tries 'make check'
12:49:37 <TrueBrain> and that isn't known!!
12:49:46 <dihedral> Rubidium: will give that a try
12:49:52 <SmatZ> it was working in the past
12:49:58 <TrueBrain> so OpenTTD is pushed back to [ebuild], basicly meaning: back to square one
12:50:16 <TrueBrain> in the meantime the 0.6.3 ebuild stuff is spread over 3 topics
12:50:24 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: it never worked ;) (not the TEST phase)
12:50:29 <TrueBrain> but normal people have that disabled :p
12:50:34 <TrueBrain> only insane people enable it ;)
12:50:48 <TrueBrain> either way .. I did my final attempt to make them see that it is a VERY SIMPLE THING TO DISABLE
12:50:55 <TrueBrain> and after that, I give up on this subject ...
12:51:03 <TrueBrain> 3 months I am trying to get the ebuild marked stable ...
12:51:16 <Gekz> TrueBrain: make make check result in echo CHECK SUCCESS
12:51:27 <TrueBrain> Gekz: why should we do something so silly
12:51:30 <TrueBrain> just to comply with their rules?
12:51:39 <TrueBrain> a simple change in the ebuild prevents the check from running completely
12:51:45 <Gekz> incase in the future you actually make a make check
12:52:50 <petern> is that supposed to be a standard?
12:53:05 <dihedral> Rubidium: cannot test it at the moment...
12:53:11 <dihedral> need a blocked port ;-)
12:53:13 <Rubidium> petern: only in Gentoo's universe
12:53:25 <TrueBrain> petern: not really; but in Gentoo's ebuild you need to mark that you don't have it
12:53:32 <petern> can't *they* fix *their* ebuild to not do make check? :o
12:53:35 <TrueBrain> somehow they 'fail' to understand such a logic and basic solution
12:53:50 <Gekz> TrueBrain: aspergers will do that to you
12:53:57 <TrueBrain> Removing "test" from FEATURES in /etc/make.conf leads to a successful install.
12:53:57 <TrueBrain> Adding it afterwards gives a failed reinstall.
12:54:05 <Rubidium> dihedral: never mind, it doesn't work
12:54:05 <TrueBrain> is of oone of the bug reports...
12:54:19 <petern> non-blocking connects need more work
12:54:38 <worldemar> TrueBrain: why users should disable global flag because of openttd?
12:54:43 <petern> you need to periodicly call connect() until it returns success
12:54:51 <TrueBrain> worldemar: they shouldn't
12:54:57 <TrueBrain> but any sane Gentoo Portage Maintainer
12:55:00 <TrueBrain> knwos how to add that flag in seconds
12:55:15 <TrueBrain> how stupid can a system be, that is needs to be pushed back all the way down to the first stage
12:55:22 <TrueBrain> to fix such a basic and simplistic problem?
12:55:28 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: sane and Gentoo in one sentence? ;)
12:55:47 <TrueBrain> (the flag in the openttd ebuild, that is :p)
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12:56:14 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well .. they are an impossible organization to get something done in ...
12:56:17 <TrueBrain> even more for games
12:56:28 <TrueBrain> average time for reply is 7 days
12:56:46 <TrueBrain> my mother replies faster to emails
12:57:06 <worldemar> TrueBrain: calm down) there are games which actually not even in portage just because of simple things like that
12:57:26 <petern> worldemar: it's the effort :p
12:57:32 <TrueBrain> worldemar: after trying for 3 months, I refuse to calm down :)
12:57:34 <petern> it shouldn't be so much effort...
12:57:47 <TrueBrain> first some morron made openttd ebuild EAPI=2
12:57:53 <TrueBrain> which made it take for ever before it was accepted
12:58:05 <TrueBrain> now something simple as 'make test' fails holds it back again?
12:58:10 <TrueBrain> 0.6.3 is released, what, a year ago?
12:58:29 <planetmaker> consider it an effort for 0.7 ;)
12:58:46 <TrueBrain> yeah ... which will take an other year, if you ask me :)
12:58:55 <planetmaker> and if you care to drop by here, you'll receive cake :)
12:59:03 <TrueBrain> worst thing is, we published ebuilds via packages.openttd.org, which do work nicely (well, the test does fail, but I can fix that in a few secs)
12:59:12 <TrueBrain> just I can't get them to use our ebuilds, because it is EAPI=1
12:59:51 <planetmaker> sorry for my stupid question, what's "ebuild"?
13:00:06 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: like .deb is for debian
13:00:10 <TrueBrain> .ebuild is for Gentoo
13:00:11 <worldemar> ebuild is comething like "port" in bsd
13:00:46 <worldemar> "installing information", but not application itself
13:01:02 <TrueBrain> worldemar: and it is not meant bad, it is just insane you need to try that hard to get a simple ebuild accepted in the games .... just shows the games-herd is a bit ... well ... either overworked, or stupid :)
13:01:05 <TrueBrain> I leave that up to you :)
13:02:29 <worldemar> TrueBrain: well... that's it)
13:02:45 <petern> worldemar needs to fix his keyboard
13:02:53 <TrueBrain> worldemar: you are doing the ) again ;)
13:03:41 <worldemar> TrueBrain: this channel often makes me happy!
13:04:01 <TrueBrain> I thought it meant good night
13:05:01 <dihedral> planetmaker: .app for mac is a folder with a certain structure, holding an application
13:05:10 <dihedral> you can double click it to start a program
13:05:23 <dihedral> ebaild rather is information on how to install the app
13:05:28 * worldemar dreams about double-clicking on ebuild
13:05:34 <planetmaker> Well. You _can_ consider .app that, too.
13:05:53 <planetmaker> install instructions: "click this" ;)
13:06:18 * goodger plans to find out how much extra disk space would be required if debian switched to that appalling system
13:07:11 *** michi_cc_ is now known as michi_cc
13:08:30 * TrueBrain is proud to say that the ebuilds at packages.openttd.org no longer fail on FEATURES="test" compile
13:08:34 <TrueBrain> for crying out loud
13:08:39 * TrueBrain shuts up about Gentoo now
13:10:19 *** Progman has joined #openttd
13:10:43 <dihedral> planetmaker: then the .app though is compared rather with emerge or aptitude
13:11:01 <dihedral> not though the to-be-installed package itself
13:11:07 <planetmaker> never used any of those :)
13:11:27 <dihedral> not even port (macports) or fink?
13:12:56 <worldemar> have to go to uni... back in few hours
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13:22:54 <planetmaker> dihedral: well... not much more than noticing that those things exist.
13:22:58 <planetmaker> No need for me so far.
13:32:08 <dihedral> limit the console's cd command from going above the location of the openttd.cfg file ;-)
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13:43:10 <thefiler007> wondering if anyone could help me
13:43:30 <Yexo> only if you state what your problem is
13:43:36 <thefiler007> is it possible to edit my train speeds, power and the amount of train that i can have. 5000 isnt enough
13:44:36 <Yexo> editing train speed and power can be done with a newgrf, to have more than 5000 trains you'll have to patch the source code and recompile
13:45:37 <TrueBrain> thefiler007: you claim you reached the vehicle limit? :)
13:46:32 <thefiler007> yip, to many "big trains" with to many egine's
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13:51:11 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15150 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix: Don't highlight tiles outside the visible map.
13:53:45 <TrueBrain> Belugas!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111
13:53:51 <TrueBrain> how are you my friend?
13:56:40 <petern> do we need to increase it to 32 bit? :p
13:56:53 <Belugas> How am i? mmm gorgeous, clean shaved, dressed, sitting at my desk..
13:57:29 <thefiler007> is there anyone here who's really good with newgrf who can help me
13:57:40 * petern considers banning all forum posts mentioning the R-word for Belugas' sanity
13:57:40 <Belugas> hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello ALL!
13:58:00 <Belugas> too late,petern, i'm already INSANEE!!!!!!
13:58:24 <TrueBrain> insanity comes with age
14:00:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc
14:00:58 <Belugas> then, TrueBrain, you must be as old as me ;)
14:01:24 <TrueBrain> Belugas: good point ...
14:01:36 <Belugas> thefiler007, strangely enough, no one can help you, at this point. go figure out ;)
14:01:55 <thefiler007> i dont know how to program, thats the problem
14:02:25 <TrueBrain> we all hit the wall of insanity
14:02:33 <TrueBrain> problems are there to be solved
14:02:38 * TrueBrain points thefiler007 to amazon.com
14:05:10 <TrueBrain> I thank you all, for everything, and wish you a very good OpenTTD :)
14:05:12 *** TrueBrain has left #openttd
14:05:30 <Belugas> programmation : art of telling a computer what to do. For achieving this goal, one should be able to understand and use a language that would, with the help of a translator ( see compiler), be able to tell the machine the steps required to do so
14:05:42 <Belugas> see you soon, mister Brainy
14:08:54 *** Zahl__ is now known as Zahl
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14:12:47 <Belugas> George, I think i've got it finalized for the house name callback
14:12:53 <Belugas> here's waht you can do:
14:13:17 <Belugas> 1) var 10 is set to 1 is the house is not yet completed
14:13:32 <Belugas> 2) if it's the case, you can do two things
14:14:10 <Belugas> 2a) send normal house name that will be merged in disaply with the regular "(in construction)" string
14:14:32 <Belugas> 2b) set bit 15 of the return value and provinde your own string.
14:14:51 <Belugas> 3) when the house is complete, just give your personnalized string
14:15:57 <George> Belugas: What did TrueBrain mean?
14:16:27 <Belugas> about me being insane? nothi g but the truth :)
14:17:16 <George> [17:05:11] <TrueBrain> I thank you all, for everything, and wish you a very good OpenTTD :)
14:17:19 <Belugas> house name callback number is 14D, mask is of course the following one
14:17:51 <Belugas> ho... that... i read that as a "good bye, i've got stuff to do in the real world, have a inice day"
14:18:20 <Yexo> it was more than that, now noai is in trunk, he'll come here less then lately
14:18:23 <George> see you tomorrow or see you someday?
14:18:59 <Yexo> planetmaker: try without the trailing /
14:19:39 <planetmaker> I guess I fix the wiki
14:20:23 <Belugas> that's what it meant?
14:20:52 <Belugas> i should find him a new exciting project to trigger his interest to the game once more ^_^
14:22:04 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
14:24:35 <Belugas> George, i expected more reactions to my announcement than the one i've received so far from you :S
14:25:08 <Belugas> i guess you don't need that callback anymore, and i should just remove the code from my repo then...
14:25:13 <George> Sorry, I was impressed by TrueBrain's words
14:26:18 <Belugas> bah.. it's not the first time he says "good bye and you won't see me again around"
14:26:52 * planetmaker wishes belugas many good ideas to incise TB to continue with OpenTTD dev-ing :)
14:27:51 <George> Sometimes I hear such words IRL. They always make to feel bad for some reasons :(
14:28:27 <dihedral> planetmaker: he's after a break from OpenTTD
14:28:28 <George> Unfortunately, Nobody, who said so, has returned to my team :(
14:29:03 <Belugas> that's the risk you have to pay when "working" on a voluntary project as this one
14:29:29 <George> The same risk you have on a commercial projects too :(
14:29:37 <dihedral> or for being a gaming clan *GRINS*
14:29:43 <Belugas> honestly, ive considered many times to get away myself
14:29:56 <dihedral> i doubt anybody would blame you
14:30:03 <dihedral> it's very time consuming
14:30:10 <dihedral> has a bunch of 'demanding' users
14:30:14 <planetmaker> fair enough. I think those thoughts are natural to occur - the world out there is far bigger than imagination can hold even.
14:30:15 <dihedral> or who think they can be demanding
14:30:20 <Belugas> not exactly true, George. If the pay is high enough, leaving a project means very good reasons
14:30:21 <George> No, I did not mean blaming anyone
14:30:41 <dihedral> and hardly a thanks in return
14:30:50 <George> Belugas: But it happens
14:31:27 * jerker is sending alot of thanks in return to all developers
14:32:17 <planetmaker> sure. Just come over :)
14:32:56 <planetmaker> or rather drop by, I guess is the correct English wording.
14:33:12 <Belugas> why do they always say that??
14:33:23 <Belugas> why can't they just ship the damn promised beer???
14:33:32 <Belugas> i'd be drunk to death already
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14:33:58 <Aali> speaking of being demanding; petern, since Celestar is nowhere to be found, will you review and possibly commit my merge to the cargodest branch? :P
14:34:04 <George> petern: You are right, back on topic. So, what do we have with CB 14D?
14:34:38 <glx> Aali: how did you manage RoutingBase::ProcessOrder() and OrderList stuff ?
14:35:30 <Aali> I had a copy of PhilSophus' orderclass patch, remember?
14:35:34 <petern> hah, the number of ifndefs required to remove gui code from dedicated servers is... not nice
14:36:48 <George> Belugas: From the first view sounds very good.
14:36:50 <Aali> he had already adapted it to cargodest
14:38:04 <petern> i want to see what can be done in cargodest to reduce the amount of data duplication
14:39:17 <Aali> I think that will require a major rewrite though :/
14:39:49 <George> And voud it be hard to add a var, that returns the number of houses in the toun with the specified ID and specified Animation state? I understand, that it would be CPU costly, but it would be required rarely
14:40:46 <George> $#$#$%#^ I need a spell checker. It is so hard to make sentances and spellcheck them at the same time :/
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14:41:30 <George> #$^%#^#$% SPELLCHECKER!
14:42:11 <George> petern: I can't change my native language :(
14:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it's really easy to enable the spell checker
14:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause> you right click on the input field, and check "automatic spell checker"
14:44:44 <Eddi|zuHause> only problem is, i have not found an easy way to switch languages...
14:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so all it ever checks is german
14:45:02 <Belugas> could be George, i need to check it. It might already be there, but maybe not as just one var
14:47:54 <George> I suppose the map array should not be reviewed soon, so this would be the way to emulate it.
14:49:28 <George> I mean I see this as a way to have more than 512 houses by having several houses on one ID, by switching the view with animation and stoping it.
14:50:40 <George> of cause if reviewing map array is planned soon, all this tricks are not useful
14:51:12 <Belugas> not soon at all... i don't think we've ever discussed even the idea of doing it from a long time
14:52:02 <George> I supposed this. So, let's use what we have 128 animation frames
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14:58:57 <petern> £160 for a stand... :/
15:00:12 <Belugas> 0 pence for your knees :)
15:00:39 <petern> did you get a new octopos?
15:01:29 <petern> balancing 25kg on my knees is not fun ;)
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15:03:09 <Belugas> anyway, petern, next dive won't occur until mid february, if my ears are fine (which is still not the case)
15:03:22 <Belugas> petern, i though you already had a stand
15:05:54 <Belugas> George, did I gave you enough to create a test grf?
15:06:25 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15151 /trunk/src/ (misc.cpp misc_gui.cpp terraform_cmd.cpp viewport.cpp): -Fix: tile 0 can now be highlighted as error tile
15:11:23 * Belugas listens to Steve Vai and is merserized
15:12:10 <Belugas> how on earth can anyone play like that??... it's incredible
15:14:59 <thefiler> can somebody maybe help me with creating grf file...??? please
15:15:25 <thefiler> all i want is for a train to go faster, and have more power please
15:15:27 <Yexo> thefiler: not before you try yourself and ask specific questions
15:16:06 <thefiler> i cant get hold of a grf editor...
15:16:28 <thefiler> i've looked on those site you gave me, maybe im just being a noob
15:16:37 <Yexo> I gave you all the links you need, just create an nfo in a text editor and compile it into a grf with grfcodec
15:17:26 <Belugas> special note: grfcodec is a command line program, double clicking on it is useless
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15:17:58 <thefiler> what should i use then belugas
15:23:57 <thefiler> im looking to get my hands on grf creator
15:23:58 <Belugas> didn't Yexo told you?
15:24:17 <thefiler> and i did look at the page
15:25:47 <Belugas> then why do you ask "what should I use then" ?
15:26:08 <Belugas> be precise in yur questions, my cristal ball is still at the repair shop
15:29:08 <Belugas> no, it's ok... it's just a matter of getting used to it :)
15:29:29 <petern> i somehow don't fancy a cheap x-stand
15:30:31 <petern> so i get to complain about prices instead ;)
15:30:38 <Belugas> so... overtime is your answer ;)
15:46:01 <Yexo> quote from page 4: "Sorry, I never finished GRF Creator..."
15:47:10 <thefiler> guest that one is out of the question
15:48:19 <Terkhen> thefiler: look for grfmaker
15:48:53 <thefiler> ya thats what im trying to know, thanks dude
15:49:10 <thefiler> im a bloody noob with this stuf
15:53:19 <Aali> petern: are you working on/planning such an implementation of cargodest? (with less data duplication)
15:54:18 <petern> no, i'm fixing some website for a customer
15:54:39 <petern> Belugas, and meh, £70 for a set of pedals...
15:55:43 <Aali> do you have any idea of how this could be done without completely ruining performance?
15:56:45 <Aali> I mean, keeping the routing network consistent with reality is a bitch, but you can't rebuild the entire thing every time you want to generate a cargo packet
15:57:26 <Belugas> [10:57] <Aali> I mean, keeping the routing network consistent with reality is a bitch <-- toum te doum :D
15:58:00 <Aali> I meant the in-game reality
15:58:19 <Aali> your vehicles orders, what they're actually carrying
15:58:22 <petern> you meant keeping the data synchronised
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15:59:34 <petern> was the 'two equal paths' problem fixed?
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16:00:51 <Aali> two equal paths problem?
16:02:18 <Aali> no, that hasn't been "fixed"
16:04:12 <Aali> basically, a packets destination depends on how much cargo the recieving station has transferred the last month and how far away from the source it is (and this isn't even a factor in the current version due to a bug)
16:06:02 <Aali> and while it's easy to modify the algorithm in itself, getting it "right" so that everyone is happy will certainly not be easy :P
16:06:36 * Rubidium wonders why a blocking connect has become an issue right now
16:06:54 <Rubidium> as the lobby and server joins use the same blocking connects
16:11:17 <petern> he's just being awkward :)
16:11:23 <SpComb> if all the clients connect to the content server, and the content server is slow, all clients will notice it
16:16:49 <petern> same with the server list :p
16:17:05 <Rubidium> the server list is fire'n'forget UDP
16:17:27 <Rubidium> wouldn't know how that would block
16:17:31 <SpComb> indeed, the UI won't freeze with the server list
16:18:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
16:18:08 <SpComb> worst-case scenario the connect() might block for minutes
16:18:28 <SpComb> (including DNS resolution etc)
16:18:57 <SpComb> the blocking DNS also doesn't apply to lobby/game connects, since those are raw IP addresses
16:18:59 <petern> goodger! they're translating rigs of rods! to latin!
16:19:01 <Rubidium> hmm, you mean that gethostname is a blocking thing too?
16:19:22 <petern> how could it not be? :)
16:22:08 <SpComb> and there's no general-purpose solution for non-blocking DNS lookups either
16:22:45 <petern> hey, we can make ottd use threads!
16:24:22 <petern> bah, stupid stand, it has cross-members where legs should be :/
16:24:29 <SpComb> does OpenTTD already have cross-platform threads?
16:24:54 <Rubidium> SpComb: only for the platforms that support them
16:25:19 <petern> gethostbyname is not threadsafe either
16:25:26 <petern> at least, i assume it isn't
16:25:30 <petern> because there's a gethostbyname_r
16:25:54 <dihedral> well, the dns lookup was clearly not the issue i was facing at that time
16:25:56 <SpComb> you'd probably only need one gethostbyname thread
16:26:14 <dihedral> hostnames resolved fine, however ports were/are blocked
16:26:27 <petern> what about off-line users?
16:26:49 <dihedral> if the computer itself has not connectivity, you get the error message right awaz
16:27:09 <petern> if my router is up but the adsl is down, it'll hang...
16:27:09 <tokai> OpenTTD was crashing once when there was no TCP/IP at all (dunno if it's still the case:)
16:27:17 <SpComb> if the TCP connect traffic gets routed by blackholed, you'll have a long timeout
16:29:54 <petern> not the diff, mind you
16:30:44 <SpComb> the biggest issue as always is the cross-platformness
16:31:04 <petern> SpComb, not really. if the platform does not support it, it can just block
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16:31:54 <Rubidium> so technically it's just making it threaded with a callback
16:32:23 <petern> g_io_channel... we don't use glib, so... :o
16:32:33 <petern> oh god still an hour to go :/
16:33:31 <petern> nonblocking connects don't need threads though
16:33:47 <SpComb> connect() lets you use O_NONBLOCK, indeed
16:34:04 <petern> still needs a timer and callback (or hardcoded, i suppose) mechanism
16:34:09 <Rubidium> true, but... if you've booted the thread for the gethost you can use it for the connect too
16:34:32 <SpComb> if you want nonblocking connects for the game servers, it's better to not use threads there
16:35:24 <George> Belugas: I assumed, that it uses D0XX strings, bit 3 in property 1D. Test file is ready. http://george.zernebok.net/temp/-/test3w.grf Unfortunatly, I could not test it, so, it may contain errors. It should select a view and name according mod year of build mod 4
16:36:05 <petern> one day D000 - D3FF may not be enough :)
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16:38:22 <Belugas> petern, of course, OpenTTD does not care about that, really :)
16:38:58 <George> Belugas: Let me know if any change is required
16:39:00 <Rubidium> 32 bits stringids! ;)
16:39:49 <SpComb> glib also has a getaddrinfo_a, but that's probably not very interesting, it's just a getaddrinfo threadpool
16:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... google calculator cannot transform Mp in kN
16:44:52 <petern> it must suck to be that person who broke 2 legs on that plane...
16:46:02 <Eddi|zuHause> limitation disturbs me very strings, goes it throw out limitation?
16:50:52 <Belugas> Rubidium : sounds like a nice idea :)
16:51:01 <Belugas> 32 bits callback results!
16:51:27 <Rubidium> what? 32768 return values per NewGRF isn't enough?
16:53:14 <Belugas> as 640k was enough for weveryone :D
16:53:58 * SpComb searches the forums for BEST_POST_EVER
16:55:03 <SpComb> and then we conclude that the forums search sucks
16:55:23 <SpComb> searching for "BEST_POST_EVER" just searches for "best"
16:55:23 <Belugas> who has hidden the grf textids entry on wiki??
16:56:41 <Belugas> forgot that it was hidden in action 04 :)
16:57:04 <petern> it's in the 'additional references' section on the main nfo page
17:00:33 <frosch123> an activation flag for the name callback? why don't you just let the callback fail, i.e. it is not like that it is called every tick :)
17:01:26 <frosch123> or did I got that wrong?
17:03:11 <dihedral> if i run ../openttd.svn/bin/openttd -c openttd.cfg
17:03:22 <dihedral> the cfg file is created in ../openttd.svn/bin/ and not in .
17:06:59 <SpComb> that's rather annoying indeed
17:07:08 <SpComb> but it's always been that way :(
17:07:46 <SpComb> `./bin/openttd -c bin/openttd.cfg` (e.g. with tab completion) writes it out to bin/bin/openttd.cfg
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17:14:53 <dihedral> which is not correct relpath handling, is it?
17:16:05 <Belugas> what do you mean, frosch123?
17:16:21 <Belugas> you mean prop 1D, bit 3?
17:16:47 <frosch123> well, it was george who said that, so I have no idea what you designed :)
17:17:08 <frosch123> but generally I don't think that you need to activate that callback explicitly
17:17:24 <frosch123> or would that change more?
17:17:31 <frosch123> e.g. resize the window or whatever?
17:17:37 <Belugas> no, it would not indeed
17:17:56 <Belugas> resize the window... that's interesting
17:18:03 <Belugas> i wonder if i cold do that...
17:18:10 <petern> you don't need CBM_HOUSE_CUSTOM_NAME, really?
17:18:20 <frosch123> isn't land-info-window self-resizing anyway?
17:19:02 <Belugas> well.. accroding to frosch123 and petern, it seems that indeed CMB_hous is too much
17:19:39 <frosch123> is var40 accessible?
17:20:21 <petern> should be, there is a tile involved
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17:21:25 <petern> i would not bother with the customized incomplete text
17:21:53 <petern> if it's not complete, just show under construction like normal
17:21:58 <frosch123> in that case you would also not need the callback info :) though it might be comfortable
17:22:38 <petern> i'm thinking about kiss ;)
17:22:40 <Belugas> thing is, someone could eventually be able to specify which phase of construction the house is in
17:23:02 <Belugas> yeah, it gets a bit complicated, i agree
17:23:07 <petern> do people really use the tile description feature that much?
17:23:24 <Belugas> for a house, maybe not
17:23:44 <frosch123> petern: I recommended that feature two times in the last two days :)
17:24:45 <frosch123> there were two guys who could not figure out, to which grf an industry belonged to :) (shown in the tile-info-window)
17:29:51 * frosch123 wonders when smatz will release his squirrel-grf
17:33:38 <Belugas> ok... so no CBM_ required, cut out the personnalized incompletion
17:33:51 <Belugas> leave with just a name callback, simply
17:34:20 <frosch123> and two free callback-info registers for future expansion :)
17:36:02 <eax-> What's the best way to increase the size of a city?
17:36:53 <frosch123> build 5 busstations and service them as continuously as possible
17:38:44 <eax-> Also, how come my that in my "Detailed Performance Rating" the "Cargo" part sometimes goes down to like 5-8/10?
17:39:29 <frosch123> maybe in the observed timeperiod no vehicle with that cargo arrived
17:40:01 <eax-> But the "8" is all cargotypes available right?
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17:40:19 <frosch123> when you use ecs you will have 32 cargo types :p
17:41:10 <Aali> actually, the latest version of ECS doesn't use up all 32 slots
17:42:21 <Belugas> Extended Cargo Scheme
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17:42:43 <Belugas> mmh... home made chili popcorn :)
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18:10:12 <nicfer> one question, will on a future the openttd client search for updates automatically? (stable releases should search for stables and nightlies for nightlies)
18:13:08 <Belugas> very very very unlikely, due to the nature of the system
18:13:49 <Belugas> it would be possible only if the system is split in multiple entities, librairies or stuff like that
18:14:02 <Belugas> only the entities could be updated, nothte whole
18:14:33 <Belugas> but... there is always programs who are looking up the latest versions and upgrade it for yoyu
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18:18:16 * petern wonders when opengfx will become usable
18:18:31 <Belugas> when it will be less darkish, maybe ;)
18:18:51 <petern> yeah, especially the plain black sprites that haven't been drawn...
18:19:15 <petern> the scrollbar doesn't work properly
18:19:42 <petern> i have to resize the window to make it register the number of items in the list
18:27:39 <petern> oh look, a mortgage statement
18:29:09 <Belugas> ho... interests are getting lower?
18:29:40 * petern paid £15179.16 last year
18:30:22 <Sionide> that's more than i make in a year
18:31:21 * Belugas congrats petern :) one down, 15 more to go :)
18:32:32 <Belugas> when i bough my house, it was initially set for 20, and with the different rates we had along the way, it settled for 17 years
18:32:47 <Belugas> anyway... there's hope!
18:32:59 <petern> this should drop to under 15 with the overpayments
18:34:27 <goodger> petern: bloody waste of time
18:35:31 <Belugas> i hope for you, petern
18:35:35 <Belugas> the sooner, the better
18:36:19 <Belugas> note that i would not be able to really appreciate the end of it, since i'll have to pay for private school for kiddo
18:36:38 <Belugas> not as expensive as ahouse, agreed.. but still :(
18:48:20 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r15152 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files): (log message trimmed)
18:48:20 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-19 18:47:48
18:48:20 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 30 fixed by khaloofah (30)
18:48:20 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed by Hadez (1)
18:48:20 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: dutch - 22 fixed by Excel20 (4), habell (18)
18:48:21 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 fixed by UltimateSephiroth (1)
18:48:21 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
18:52:54 <nicfer> there's a small trouble in the spanish translation on nightly r15141
18:53:07 <nicfer> 'Check online content' is still on english
18:53:54 <nicfer> it should be: 'Comprobar contenido en línea'
18:54:51 <Yexo> nicfer: either give the translator some more time or apply to become a translater for spanish yourself
18:55:52 <glx> I'd say wait for next nighly
18:56:47 <glx> +3713STR_CONTENT_INTRO_BUTTON········································:{BLACK}Comprobar·contenido·online
18:57:04 <glx> that's the translation you'll see
18:57:55 <nicfer> online can be translated into 'en linea'...
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18:58:26 <worldemar> nicfer: sure it is not "on line"?
18:59:55 <nicfer> here it's used 'en línea' in reference to 'online'
19:00:15 <nicfer> however it could be because of my variety of spanish
19:02:38 <Sionide> does it have to be life size? :P
19:03:38 <worldemar> yes, will they me 1:1 scaled?
19:04:19 <eax-> Hihi named my biggest town The Nexus ^^
19:07:30 <Belugas> nicfer, it reminds me a question we argued about recently: how would you say "English Only" in spanish?
19:08:12 <Belugas> Solo En Ingles? Ingles solamente?
19:12:26 <petern> goodger, what, mortgage or latin?
19:13:55 <petern> i totally agree with that :)
19:19:28 <goodger> mortgages also to a reduced extent but I lack context
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19:45:22 <ashaw> How does one turn off realistic acceleration in the NEW UI
19:48:02 <petern> cos there's no such thing! ;)
19:48:47 <petern> that thread seems to have died
19:49:21 <frosch123> though there was a related one in TTDP section about editing TTDP texts
19:50:17 <frosch123> experimental grf coding :)
19:50:49 <frosch123> mess around until it works and complain when it fails later because some sanity checking was added :)
19:51:07 <petern> what in particular? :p
19:52:03 <frosch123> everywhere, didn't your grfid detection fail for some reason :)
19:52:23 <petern> it didn't fail! it just followed the spec...
19:53:01 <frosch123> though wrt. the first mentioned author I remember a discussion why the V140 expires so early in OTTD that the red livery becomes hardly available
19:54:18 <frosch123> (following the grfspecs it would show up for more than one month in one of five games)
19:55:48 <petern> isn't that something to do with extended vehicle life, which isn't part of the specs?
19:57:10 * petern ponders enforcing the 'sprite' number limit in openttd :p
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19:58:12 <petern> freetype gets selected automatically now? :o
19:58:36 <Yexo> only if some of of the characters needed for your language is missing
19:59:43 <petern> heh, loads of compile errors in grfcodec :/
20:01:28 <frosch123> use the os of the maintainer :)
20:16:37 <frosch123> hmm, is fs#1265 only an issue about keyboard layouts
20:17:45 <frosch123> you need dorpsgek for that?
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20:18:49 *** dihedral was kicked by Belugas (Laziness kills!)
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20:20:29 <SmatZ> [21:20:02] <frosch123> [18:18:20] isn't land-info-window self-resizing anyway? <== it is
20:20:49 <dihedral> is there a console command to download content?
20:20:56 <dihedral> i.e. for dedicated servers?
20:22:06 * petern wonders if this is a bit of a nasty way of getting the correct sprite number into openttd[dw].grf
20:23:45 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
20:23:48 <petern> dihedral: not that i'm aware of
20:25:05 <Belugas> i wonder if it's usefull to have such a command...
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20:30:11 <dihedral> i think it would, because else you have real difficulty like me right now trying to get an ai running
20:30:21 <dihedral> you cannot download from content.openttd.org directly
20:30:32 <dihedral> and possibly you have dependencies that need watching out for
20:30:39 <Belugas> you've got gui running?
20:31:19 <dihedral> oh - i have a console command to change a clients nick also :-P
20:31:26 <dihedral> useful for all those 'Players' :-D
20:31:37 <Yexo> dihedral: didn't that one already exist?
20:31:51 <dihedral> nono - the server admin can change any clients nick
20:32:10 <dihedral> only the command needs implementing, everything else is already handled
20:32:59 <Belugas> of course... i shold have though of that before asking :S
20:33:05 <Prof_Frink> petern: Like you said. `bananas install wrightai`.
20:33:33 <Prof_Frink> petern! newcodingits!
20:33:36 <petern> i fear it is tightly coupled to the gui, however
20:33:41 <petern> i've not looked though :p
20:34:54 <Rubidium> well... wrightai isn't quite a search key for the system
20:36:02 <Aali> so you'll need "list_bananas ai"? :)
20:36:16 <Rubidium> but technically it would be possible to dump the id and all information to the console so you can then type some ids
20:36:16 <dihedral> petern, also bananas list [<type>] ;-)
20:36:28 <Prof_Frink> Aali: No, "bananas search --type ai wright"
20:36:34 <dihedral> bananas list [<type>] [<pattern>]
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20:37:36 <Prof_Frink> I noticed stuff has tags, so have --tag too.
20:37:43 <petern> ClientNetworkContentSocketHandler *connection; ///< Our connection with the content server
20:37:47 <petern> is part of the content window
20:38:29 <Rubidium> well... you can call NetworkContent_Connect multiple times
20:38:34 <Rubidium> and it'll use the same socket
20:39:16 <Rubidium> as you can see both the download and the list window have the connection variable, but only one connection exists
20:40:05 <petern> but all the dependency checking is in the gui
20:40:54 <Prof_Frink> petern! newcompleterewrite?
20:41:00 <petern> dihedral, you'll have to wait for someone else to code it i'm afraid
20:41:04 <petern> i don't fancy touching this
20:41:33 <petern> (which also means i'm waiting on them too :p)
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20:44:54 <Belugas> gaa.... i've been wearing by bluetooth headphones since this morning... so whenever i needed to skip a song, i was able to do so from my rught ear. I've swtich to my regule headset, and... there's nothing happening, no matter how hard i press the set
20:51:58 <petern> who decided that downloading stuff should be a gui function? :o
20:53:01 <Yexo> the one who wrote that code obviously
20:53:25 <Forked> no. It's the one that requested (or demanded) the feature.
20:54:01 <Rubidium> the downloading stuff isn't a GUI function
20:54:39 <Forked> oh, I wasn't paying attention to the start of the conversation. sorry :)
20:54:55 <Rubidium> okay, it's only available via the gui, but the effective downloading code is not in the GUI code
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20:58:00 <DorpsGek> dihedral: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 22 hours, 43 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <Brianetta> RIp #6
20:58:11 <edeca> Belugas: Are bluetooth headphones any good? :\
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21:03:33 <dihedral> Brianetta, i have a wee question for you
21:03:54 <dihedral> why did you chose to use exec tclsh $0 $@ instead of #!/usr/bin/tclsh ?
21:04:11 <Brianetta> because tclsh might not be in /usr/bin
21:04:26 <Brianetta> the script's #! line runs /bin/sh
21:04:36 <Brianetta> which *always* exists on a POSIX system
21:05:25 <Brianetta> if you don't have man:
21:12:04 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15153 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15126): the scrollbar's "count" wasn't always correctly set
21:12:37 <Belugas> edeca, yes, they are very good
21:12:48 <Belugas> i have them for like at least a year
21:12:56 <Belugas> no issue at all with them
21:13:22 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15154 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2555] (r15126): wrong tooltip for the matrix
21:13:52 <edeca> Belugas: I heard the quality wasn't as good. But wireless headphones would be so cool
21:14:01 <Aali> new tooltip reads: take the blue pill you moron!
21:14:32 <Belugas> edeca, i'd say make your mind yourself. do not care about what the others are saying
21:14:44 <Belugas> i tried, i liked and i keep on using them
21:15:25 <edeca> Belugas: I'm only a millionaire in openttd, not real life ;)
21:15:46 <Rubidium> edeca: then you should invest in Zimbabwe ;)
21:16:00 <Rubidium> and you're guaranteed to be millionaire
21:16:46 <edeca> Does openttd have a string for that? "your currency is now worthless, bankers now dealing in cows"
21:19:44 * Belugas is not a millionaire in real life either
21:21:07 <Belugas> and yes, wireless is very very very cool
21:21:26 <Belugas> sitting on a bus, you don't have those wires always in the way,
21:21:45 <edeca> Sitting on a bus in London all you can hear is the music from everybody else around you ;)
21:21:52 <Belugas> you can run two floors down, the sound does not fail,
21:22:18 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: That's what speakers turned up to 11 are for.
21:22:21 <Belugas> edeca, that is not music, it's anarchic sounds
21:22:39 <edeca> Prof_Frink: 11? My speakers are loud on -15 ;)
21:22:48 <Belugas> Prof_Frink, you do not have a kid nor a wife, i'd say :)
21:23:27 <Rubidium> Belugas: 1 CAD is worth roughly 15 million ZWD (at this moment)
21:23:52 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: How about now?
21:24:04 <Rubidium> 15 million and quite a bit ;)
21:24:12 <Belugas> i'm a ZWD multi millionaire!
21:24:50 *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
21:24:53 <Rubidium> Belugas: just for "fun" last friday is was roughly 12.5 million ZWD and last wednesday roughly 10 million ZWD
21:25:03 <Prof_Frink> ZWD - For when you want to replace your monopoly money on the cheap.
21:28:16 <Rubidium> I guess going to the bank getting a few million in small notes and then going to the paper recycler is a profitable business
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21:29:54 <edeca> The notes are on ebay for stupid amounts, at least ones with low serial numbers
21:30:04 <Prof_Frink> Nah, get it in coins and build a fortress
21:46:53 <Belugas> one of my colleages : "There is definitively more apps for mac than for Linux"
21:59:35 <Rubidium> Belugas: you've misquoted him; it should've been: "There is definitively more .apps for mac than for Linux"
22:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i have ~/.kde/share/apps, if that counts...
22:02:01 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15155 /trunk/src/network/ (network.cpp network_func.h): -Codechange: remove unused return value
22:02:02 <Belugas> i have one app that is called wife who is not awaiting
22:03:12 <Rubidium> petern/SpComb: should gethostbyname(inet_ntoa(ip)) be seen as blocking?
22:05:03 <petern> yes, dns can take time
22:05:52 <Rubidium> does that really go via DNS?
22:06:50 <petern> it would be handled specially as dns wouldn't understand the request
22:08:30 <Prof_Frink> Look at me. I'm alive.
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22:16:01 <Prof_Frink> The guy in the song was.
22:16:40 <Prof_Frink> But he may have been lying.
22:16:49 <petern> hmm, this usb passthrough is no good :/
22:17:21 <petern> oh, it worked after a reboot :D
22:19:06 <petern> ah ha, no jackd overruns
22:19:26 <petern> only problem is that it's an emulated soundcard... might not work well
22:20:50 <petern> bah, too much latency :(
22:25:35 <Willem> Excuse me, can I talk to a wiki editor about the junctions page in the openttd wiki?
22:25:59 <Yexo> there is no "wiki editor" per se
22:26:06 <Yexo> everyone can edit the wiki, it's a wiki after all :)
22:26:20 <Willem> Well, someone who is experienced (I'm not in the least bit) :)
22:26:37 <Yexo> just ask what you want to ask here
22:27:01 <Willem> I've thought up a new junction based on the ultimate 3 way, only, this is a 4-way thought it would be a nice contribution
22:27:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15156 /trunk/src/video/allegro_v.cpp: -Fix: add scrollwheel support to allegro
22:28:16 <Willem> Well, every junction has a few pros and cons an I'd like someone other than myself to fill those in.
22:28:57 <Yexo> do you have a screenshot of your junction online?
22:29:20 <Yexo> and the pros and cons of several junctions are messed up anyway
22:29:39 <Willem> Don't know if it exists allready, but I thought it up and couldn't find it anywhere in the wiki
22:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> well, create a page with your junction and open a discussion page. then let people review it, and if you are content, add it to the junctions list
22:29:56 <Rubidium> that one looks familiar
22:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not really a junctions person...
22:31:47 <Rubidium> probably seen it on ottdcoop's wiki
22:31:48 <Willem> Hmmm, it seems so different though
22:32:21 <Willem> Downside to mine is the use of 2 tunnels, upside is long straight paths
22:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> my junctions tend to look like this: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%2023.%20Maer%201942.png
22:32:56 <Willem> I suspect mine to work better on realistic accelleration. The star's probably better in normal mode, me thinks
22:33:19 <Yexo> Willem: just add it and add that information
22:34:05 <Willem> Ok, I'll try. Thanks for the help
22:34:35 * Rubidium wonders if the up-down stuff can be reduced ;)
22:34:39 <dihedral> list_patches is showing fun stuff
22:34:40 <dihedral> economy.mod_road_rebuild = off
22:35:15 <dihedral> i get 4 of those no-keyed = 0 lines
22:35:31 <dihedral> always at the same place
22:36:17 <dihedral> always after difficulty.max_no_competitors, difficulty.competitor_speed, game_creation.starting_year, economy.mod_road_rebuild
22:36:25 <dihedral> and it's a clean config file
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22:37:25 <SteveOpenCandy990> Hi there. Who is the main person in charge of OpenTTD?
22:38:10 <Progman> there are the devs, but what do you want to know?
22:38:26 <planetmaker> better ask the question than ask whom to ask :)
22:39:34 <SteveOpenCandy990> My name is Steve and I work at a new startup called OpenCandy. We were started by founding and early employees of DivX. We offer software developers the ability to increase monetization and/or distribution of their product. This is done through the installer screen in a *VERY* friendly manner.
22:39:55 <SteveOpenCandy990> I wanted to see who would be the person to talk to about this.
22:40:14 *** petern sets mode: +b *!*StevenOpe@*.sd.sd.cox.net
22:40:14 *** SteveOpenCandy990 was kicked by petern (no thanks)
22:40:18 <planetmaker> you need a cross-platform installer to have chances...
22:41:05 *** petern sets mode: -b *!*StevenOpe@*.sd.sd.cox.net
22:43:25 <Progman> why did he ask in irc instead of writing an email (which looks more professional)?
22:43:44 <planetmaker> because spamming is illegal :D
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22:45:27 <Willem> It's based on the ultimate 3-way
22:45:40 <Rubidium> the ultimate junction has: no height changes, no crossing, no join before split and no sharp corners
22:45:42 <Tefad> looks like it's based on my mother
22:45:54 <Willem> If anyone has a better name, I'm open to suggestions
22:46:15 <Rubidium> oh... I forgot, no tunnels and no bridges
22:46:30 <Willem> So the ultimate 3-way isn't ultimate either?
22:47:01 <Rubidium> it all depends on the definition of ultimate
22:47:07 <Tefad> no crossing and no height changes requires a 4th dimension
22:47:28 <Tefad> but if we're teleporting.. why do we have trains
22:47:41 <Willem> Rubidium, there's no crossing, no join before split, no sharp corners
22:48:09 <planetmaker> Willem: there's long signal distances :)
22:48:24 <Rubidium> just traded going down-up-down-up with going down-up and a bridge
22:48:56 <Sacro> Rubidium: she dumped you?
22:48:59 <Willem> It's the same design I see
22:49:04 <Sacro> and now you've taken up bungee jumping?
22:49:33 <Rubidium> Sacro: should try it without a bungee cord some time
22:49:35 <Willem> I thought it would be weird I'd be the first one to think it up
22:49:56 <Willem> I'm too non-intelligent for that ;) (selfmockery is bliss)
22:50:51 <Rubidium> petern: Steve should've talked to babyottd about that
22:51:39 <Sacro> Rexxars: sex without a bungee cord?
22:52:16 <planetmaker> I'm pretty sure i don't even want to know that conversation, Sacro :P
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