IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-17
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00:04:16 <Belugas> i love openttd for ben so strange
00:04:25 <Belugas> nice going Wolf01 :)
00:04:52 <Wolf01> thank you :)
00:06:29 <el_en> # Du hast Sternenteile mit zurückgebracht!
00:06:40 <Nite_Owl> I foresee many road and rail set updates
00:07:10 <Nite_Owl> maybe station sets too
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00:08:36 <Nite_Owl> Time to feed - later all
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00:08:54 <Tim-itry> Hm... eating cookies with liquors in them - liquid licors :)
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00:17:49 <Wolf01> new version posted on the forum fow who want to enjoy it:
00:17:54 <Wolf01> *for
00:22:37 <Wolf01> time to play with ottd (clean trunk) :P
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00:37:22 <el_en> Is anyone running OS/2 on a recent VMware Player?
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00:53:24 <el_en> quite ttd-like terrain shape and colours:
00:55:03 <goodger> pleasant
00:55:29 <angelo> omg what grf is this?
00:56:00 <Wolf01> 'night boys
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03:05:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r15117 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Codechange: enlarge a few text boxes in the Create Scenario window, allowing them to be more visible.
03:07:57 <Aali> heh
03:08:55 <Aali> my server hit an infinite loop (cargodest related), I made a save with a "stuck" client and just loaded it right back up on the server
03:09:14 <Aali> sometimes I just love the robustness of OTTD
03:10:00 <Aali> not many games let you save your game when the server fails
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10:04:27 <Wolf01> morning!
10:04:55 <worldemar> morning!
10:05:02 <TrueBrain> morning Wolf01
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10:21:15 <TrueBrain> pff, emerge -uavND world @installed -> 217 new packages
10:21:16 <TrueBrain> pfff
10:21:54 <Tefad> mmm gentoo
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10:36:19 <worldemar> yeah, gentoo :)
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10:42:29 <TrueBrain> 15 / 217 ... big packages :)
10:42:54 <petern> hi
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10:44:43 <yorick> does callback 19 support more than 255 strings?
10:44:57 <TrueBrain> morning petern
10:45:37 <petern> yorick, i think so. D0XX in ttdpatch wiki parlance usually means D000-D3FF
10:46:28 <yorick> "until the callback returns FF" <-- how about that?
10:46:38 <petern> indeed so
10:46:42 <yorick> does that mean D0FF?
10:46:51 <TrueBrain> return 0x100 before 0xFF
10:49:08 <petern> no
10:49:27 <petern> the callback returns a value from 0000 to 03FF
10:49:42 <petern> 00FF means stop
10:49:53 <petern> the D000 is added later
10:50:06 <yorick> aha :)
10:50:22 <yorick> so as long as I skip 00FF, I'll be fine?
10:50:26 <petern> yes
10:51:24 * petern ponders this cur_image thing
10:51:55 <petern> in theory it should be okay to only ever called v->GetImage() when it is drawn
10:52:50 <petern> -ed
11:01:27 <el_en> were western planes allowed to fly over the GDR?
11:05:11 <petern> hmm
11:05:29 <petern> that won't work, as it needs the image dimensions to know what area to redraw... pom te pom
11:08:33 <petern> although...
11:09:50 <petern> if it's marking it dirty it's drawing it anyway
11:13:18 <petern> lol
11:13:23 <petern> that messes up smoke :D
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11:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> el_en: yes, there was an international treaty about transit corridors from west germany to west berlin
11:25:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that included all means of transport, road, rail, water, air
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11:34:49 <el_en> ok, but not other unrelated flights? (e.g. the shortest route helsinki-madrid/barcelona is through eastern germany)
11:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know
11:37:11 <el_en> ok
11:37:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like i often planned flight trips from helsinki to madrid back then :p
11:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> or... ever...
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12:21:39 <edeca> Hm, with the newai, do I extract any AIs into the ai folder?
12:21:45 * edeca is looking for official instructions
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12:22:54 <Progman> you dont need to extract them
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12:23:22 <edeca> Excellent, just put the tar straight into the ai folder?
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12:23:36 <Progman> ai directory, yes
12:24:04 <edeca> Thanks :)
12:24:07 * edeca tries it
12:24:39 <edeca> Excellent, now I've got 1xWrightAI and 1xAdmiralAI
12:24:46 <Gekz> lol.
12:24:51 <Gekz> one for planes
12:24:53 <edeca> Time to find some different newgrfs to play with too and I'll start a new game :)
12:24:55 <Gekz> one for boats.
12:25:26 <edeca> Gekz: You recommend one? I spend 20 seconds on the forums finding one
12:25:46 <Gekz> nope
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12:26:54 <Zuu> edeca: has a grfpack with many good grfs that you can download.
12:26:58 <Violet_Blood> oh hi
12:27:06 <Sionide>
12:27:14 <Zuu> But don't try them all at the same time. Only one trainset at each time etc.
12:27:48 <edeca> Zuu: I've got that :)
12:27:54 <Zuu> And set the grfs you want before you start the game. Adding them in-game can casue problems, so avoid that.
12:27:55 <edeca> Zuu: But I always play with the same grfs :\
12:28:05 <edeca> Zuu: Yep, thanks :)
12:28:45 <Zuu> edeca: Have you tried the diferent trainsets in there?
12:29:07 <edeca> Zuu: I always play with pikkabirds one, so I need to try something different
12:30:01 <edeca> Maybe I'll try the north american one
12:30:02 <Zuu> I like the north american trainset, many cool wagons in there :)
12:30:09 <edeca> Heh! There, my decision is made
12:30:54 <Zuu> If you ever have trees enabled, stolen trees is a must, but I guess you have already found them.
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12:33:14 <edeca> Nope? I never use them.
12:33:22 <edeca> And I rarely have trees enabled, they look nice but get in the way
12:33:40 <Zuu> Does anyone know what you pay per year for road stations? Couldn't find it in the wiki when I looked yesterday.
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12:34:07 <Zuu> Yep, trees are mostly hidden for me too.
12:35:13 <Violet_Blood> why?
12:35:44 <Zuu> Violet_Blood: Why hidden trees or payment of stations?
12:35:55 <Violet_Blood> yea
12:36:12 <dihedral> Admins should be able to change a users nickname
12:36:21 <dihedral> the default 'Player' is rather annoying
12:36:40 <dihedral> or at least they should be able to define with a config setting if the server may 'accept' clients with that nick!
12:37:03 <dihedral> however, a console command to change it would be pretty helpful for other nick names also
12:37:20 <Gekz> /forcenick Player Dumbass
12:37:40 <dihedral> well, client id instead of the current nick, but yea
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13:06:01 <Araldo> hello :D
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13:08:40 <Araldo> someone cans explain me, where i wrong?!
13:08:54 <Gekz> Where wrong you
13:09:39 <davis-> ..
13:09:41 <Araldo> hold on, ill give you a screenshot :D
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13:11:43 <Araldo>
13:12:07 <Araldo> why that train choose the that path if there's always a train?!
13:12:36 <Wolf01> because you missed to build a track piece
13:12:54 <Araldo> where?!
13:13:01 <Araldo> ahahah
13:13:02 <Araldo> yeah
13:13:02 <Araldo> xD
13:13:03 <Araldo> ahuauhauhuahuah
13:13:06 <Araldo> ok i see xD
13:13:09 <Araldo> damn me :D
13:13:21 <Araldo> but is a good mode to build a stations?
13:13:42 <Araldo> i use correctly the signals?
13:14:00 <Rubidium> yup
13:14:28 <Gekz> lol
13:14:32 <Gekz> nice missing of track piece
13:14:33 <Gekz> :D
13:14:38 <Gekz> I've done that
13:14:38 <Tim-itry> At the above part of the station, you don't need "special" signals for the exit
13:14:39 <Rubidium> and whether it's good depends on the amount of trains that wants to leave/enter the station
13:15:04 <Rubidium> if there's like 1 train entering and leaving a month it's perfectly fine
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13:15:10 <Tim-itry> And you might want to try turning on realistic acceleration and get rid of those narrow curves
13:15:37 <Araldo> i always enable realistic acceleration
13:15:38 <Rubidium> when it's one each two days you need another design
13:15:46 <dihedral> the curves are a wee bit tight
13:15:55 <Araldo> i practice to building good station
13:15:55 <dihedral> streach them out a little and trains can move faster
13:16:20 <Rubidium> dihedral: why must it always be faster?
13:16:33 <Tim-itry> time is money :P
13:16:39 <dihedral> you get better rating at the station for trains entering faster
13:16:53 <dihedral> = more money
13:16:54 <Rubidium> Tim-itry: and women are evil...
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13:17:10 <Tim-itry> :D
13:17:11 <dihedral> + you get higher throughput
13:17:16 <Rubidium> dihedral: rating doesn't depend on how fast the train goes when entering
13:17:21 <dihedral> well, not so high with a terminus
13:17:34 <dihedral> the wiki sais something like that
13:17:40 <dihedral> speed of train that entered last
13:17:49 <Gekz> Ratings are for people who care
13:17:52 <Gekz> pillage the cities!
13:17:56 <Gekz> deliver goods to NO-ONE
13:18:19 <Rubidium> it's "max speed of train that entered last"
13:18:41 <Rubidium> not "speed at which the last train that enter did enter the station"
13:19:11 <dihedral> hehe
13:19:12 <dihedral> ah
13:19:13 <dihedral> :-D
13:19:20 <Araldo> hmm
13:19:25 <dihedral> still - slowing down trains is not always desired
13:19:48 <dihedral> the time you need to get from A to B also plays a role, sharp curves = expensive
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13:23:17 <dihedral> Rubidium, what say you to giving admins the possibility of changing a players nickname?
13:23:38 <dihedral> or at least specifying if server's accept clients with the default nickname
13:24:01 <Araldo> is that a good way to build?
13:24:10 <Araldo> rails and signals :D
13:25:19 <Tim-itry> your exit signals (white ones) + entry-signals won't work the desired way, since you put signals between them
13:26:13 <Tim-itry> Just remove all the signals before the entrance, keep the one entry signal and place the three exit signals as close to the entry signal as possible
13:26:48 <Araldo> oh yeah after a entry signals must be ax exit signal, right?
13:26:55 <Araldo> aaaaaahhhhh okok
13:26:59 <Tim-itry> Else it is not too bad, trains have place to break down and accelerate
13:27:29 <Araldo> ook :D same for exit?
13:27:31 <Tim-itry> You could consider making the exit lanes 7 tiles long, so that a whole train will fit in, but that is not a must
13:27:41 <Araldo> ahh ok ok
13:27:44 <Tim-itry> nah, the exit can be signalled as close as possible
13:27:51 <Tim-itry> like you did
13:27:55 <Araldo> aaah ok OK :D
13:28:16 <Araldo> thank you :D another example :D hold ON (thank you for all support!)
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13:30:52 <Araldo> ok in this example i separate entry platforms (3 platforms on the left) form exit (3 right), but if wanna do that all platforms can enter and left (in a ro-ro), is possible?
13:31:15 <Araldo> i try to do that.. but i have some problems :D
13:31:59 <Tim-itry> It is possible... But for a really good solution, you might want to try out a nightly with Path Signals
13:32:06 <Tim-itry> Else trains will get stuck from time to time
13:32:19 <Tim-itry> With path signals, it works perfectly fine
13:32:31 <Araldo> hmm path signals?!
13:32:55 <Tim-itry> They are a "new" kind of signals, which behave more like real signals
13:33:15 <Tim-itry>
13:33:49 <Tim-itry> You can extend the "Basic two way station" there with more platforms
13:33:57 <Tim-itry> Than you have your double-sided-roro-station
13:34:01 <Tim-itry> *then
13:34:18 <Tim-itry> you might want to use one-way-path signals on regular track, though
13:34:28 <petern> pom te pom
13:34:36 <Araldo> oh yes i see that on wikipedia
13:34:44 <Araldo> but i can't understand how to enable it
13:34:57 <Tim-itry> You are probably playing with version 0.6.3?
13:35:00 <Araldo> yes
13:35:10 <Araldo> i update to 0.6.3 yesterday
13:35:26 <Tim-itry> Then you need to download a nightly build - it has the newest features included :)
13:35:39 <Araldo> -hmm ok :D
13:35:43 <Tim-itry> And they are usually very stable
13:35:56 <Tim-itry> You might want to backup your /save directory, just in case
13:35:59 <Araldo> after can you give me an exaple??
13:36:03 <Tim-itry> But i never had any problems with them
13:36:12 <Tim-itry> sure
13:36:27 <petern> so
13:39:26 <Araldo> ok i download nightly :D
13:39:36 <dihedral> os
13:39:59 <Araldo> for win :D
13:40:22 * petern grumbles at newzbin
13:40:48 <Araldo> ok now i can see the new signals :D
13:40:53 <petern> (well not really, but)
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13:42:44 <Tim-itry> That would be the way to go for you:
13:42:44 <Tim-itry>
13:43:53 <Tim-itry> Note: Some people prefer to put the first one-way-path signal farther away from the station, so if the lane jams up and trains have to wait, they won't block the station
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13:44:21 <Araldo> ooh nice :D
13:44:38 <Tim-itry> If that could be the case, do so, but if your line is unlikely to jam up, the setup from above has a higher throughput
13:45:49 <Araldo> in this way any platforms work in both direction?! :D
13:46:08 <Tim-itry> Yes
13:46:13 <Araldo> oh thank you :D
13:46:26 <Araldo> it's wonderful :D
13:46:30 <Tim-itry> And it will never happen that two trains go to the same platform and one gets stuck
13:46:41 <Araldo> yeah! was my problem ahahah :D
13:46:42 <Tim-itry> which would be the case using regular signals
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13:47:45 <Araldo> ok i practice :D
13:51:51 <Araldo> Tim-itry if i build a terminus multiline, is good using the signals like you, o use regular signals?
13:52:52 <Tim-itry> In my opinion, path signals are *almost* always better, especially for beginners, currently i only need the block signals for priorities
13:53:12 <Araldo> ok :D
13:53:23 <Tim-itry> And you can setup a terminus station just like in the picture, only remove the rails at one end of the station
13:55:44 <Araldo> yeah :D ill do :D few seconds ill give u a scr :D
13:56:23 <Araldo> look this Tim-itry:
13:56:54 <Tim-itry> The setup is okay, but you do not need that much space before the platforms
13:57:15 <Sacro> expansion!
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13:57:42 <Araldo> hmm i do a platforms long 7 units, and the access of 7 units..
13:58:01 <Araldo> ok i reduce it to 3 units :P
13:58:52 <Tim-itry> Nah, the maximum length of the access needs to be only as much, that as soon as a train entering will start breaking, it does not block the junction anymore
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13:59:15 <Tim-itry> If you build it that long, place a second row of (two way) path signals close before the junction
13:59:23 <Tim-itry> facing the same direction as the others
14:00:04 <Tim-itry> Then the trains leaving the station will only make a reservation over the junction as soon as they are close to it
14:00:54 <Tim-itry> Ah, and try turning on "Show reserved tracks" under advanced settings -> intefrace --> display options
14:01:02 <Araldo> hmm ok :D
14:01:06 <Tim-itry> That might help you to better understand how the signals work
14:01:30 <Araldo> i enable it :D
14:01:40 <Araldo> thank you :D
14:04:17 <Araldo> how i can see the reserved tracks?
14:04:19 <Araldo> i enable it :D
14:04:43 <Tim-itry> the reserved tracks are slightly darker than the not-reserved ones
14:04:54 <Tim-itry>
14:04:57 <Tim-itry> like in this picture
14:05:00 <Araldo> ok but only when a train is
14:05:16 <Araldo> on :D
14:05:16 <Sacro> Tim-itry: it will also cause blockages
14:05:27 <Sacro> as trains will approach the 2 way signal and wait for a platform there
14:05:35 <Tim-itry> nope
14:05:40 <Tim-itry> ;)
14:05:46 <Araldo> it's ok?
14:05:51 <Araldo> ehehehe i stress you :D
14:06:52 <Tim-itry> The last one-way-path-signal before the junction for trians going to the station can be as close to the junction as possible
14:07:21 <Tim-itry> the first one-way path signal leading away from the station can be put a bit farther away to prevent jams (safe waiting position)
14:07:56 <Araldo> aaaaaaaaahhhhhhh
14:08:03 <Araldo> okok :D
14:09:19 <Araldo> i put the outgoing the one-wat path signal before the corner
14:09:29 <Araldo> is too farther?
14:15:34 <Forked> Can't remove railway track from here...
14:15:37 <Forked> ...already built
14:15:40 <Forked> best error yet :)
14:15:59 <Tim-itry> Here is an example:
14:16:00 <Tim-itry>
14:16:28 <Tim-itry> Hope that explains it better :)
14:18:36 <Araldo> thankkkkkk you ;D
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14:19:27 <Tim-itry> No Problem :)
14:19:39 <Araldo> ehehehe you're great :D
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14:20:55 <Tim-itry> Nah, you will know how to use path signals soon, just experiment a bit
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14:32:44 <Araldo> Tim-itry thank yoi for all, thank you guys :D
14:32:47 <Araldo> now i have to go :D
14:32:52 <Tim-itry> Okay, goodbye
14:32:52 <Araldo> see you soon :D bye bye
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14:45:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15118 /trunk/src/ai/ai_info.cpp: -Fix: fix a minor mem-leak
14:49:43 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r15119 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: several issues with result 0x4 (standard production change of primary industries) of callbacks 0x29 and 0x35.
14:53:36 <el_en> isn't it a little odd that Data was supposed to be unique for being an self-aware AI, but then comes EMH which develops feelings on its own, unlike Data.
14:53:45 <George> what properties means anything for not the first part of the articulated vehice? does the weight, capacity, and so on are defined by the first part of the articulated RV?
14:54:17 <mrfrenzy> el_en: what's strange about that? this was many years later when technology had advanced
14:54:33 <George> or capacity callback is called separetely for every part of arv?
14:54:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15120 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_info.cpp ai_scanner.cpp): -Fix: more mem-leak fixes
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14:55:29 <el_en> mrfrenzy: well some years, but not decades later.
14:55:34 <petern> George: capacity is all the parts added together
14:55:41 <frosch123> George: in most cases each articulated parts acts on its own with all the callbacks
14:55:49 <petern> i'd assume weight would be too, but there is no rv weight in ottd
14:56:05 <frosch123> in purchase list maybe that is not done always
14:56:52 <mrfrenzy> the EMH had been developed by several scientist for many years, and had access to significantly larger processing power than data, and was designed to adapt to new situations and learn
14:57:03 <mrfrenzy> developing emotions is not too far-fetched imo
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14:58:05 <George> if the first part has zero capacity, and refitted to cargoes 1,2 and the second part has capacity x and allows cargoes 3,4, then what cargo should the ARV be refitable to?
14:58:29 <petern> in theory, 1,2,3 and 4
14:58:31 <el_en> well yeah
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14:58:36 <frosch123> all of them, just like trains :)
14:58:54 <frosch123> but autoreplace will disallow replacing mixed vehicles :p
14:59:39 <George> petern: to 0 units of cargo 1 and 2? and what would be with part 2?
15:00:46 <petern> well the refit capacity callback would let you change that
15:00:52 <George> I want to make a cabin a first part, and give it no capacity. if I specify it as 0 passengers, it would not work?
15:01:05 <petern> why not?
15:01:49 <George> as I understood you, it would lead to allow ARV be refitable to 0 passengers.
15:02:15 <George> And lorry should not transport passengers
15:02:52 <frosch123> George: you cannot mix passengers with other cargo in road vehicles. They can either go to truck stops, or to bus stops, but never both.
15:02:59 <frosch123> the first part decides that
15:03:29 <George> wiki says CARGO CLASS defines it, I can set it 04 for example
15:04:07 <frosch123> however, if the first part does not carry anything, it won't be refittable
15:04:22 <George> and what to do?
15:04:34 <petern> you need to start from the beginning
15:04:39 <petern> list what you want
15:04:48 <petern> rather that list what you think you need that you think doesn't work
15:05:07 <George> Ok, let me try
15:05:15 <George> 1) I make ARVs
15:05:40 <George> 2) They consist of 2 parts - a cabin and a body with cargo
15:06:13 <George> 3) because of that I want to attach one body to several cabins
15:06:51 <George> 4) I supposed (may be wrong) that one body is for one cargo class
15:07:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15121 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_config.cpp ai_scanner.cpp): -Fix: more mem-leak fixes (this should make SmatZ so happy ;) :p)
15:07:48 <frosch123> what shall the player do to choose cabin and body?
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15:08:12 <George> 5) also I would like (but i do not know how) to attach several bodies to one cabin
15:08:43 <George> frosch123: select a combination from purchase list
15:09:08 <petern> for the body you can have just one cargo class if you want, but it might simpler to allow all but passengers, or something like that
15:09:31 <petern> that's just standard refitting though
15:09:31 <George> like "Volvo FH16 tanker with trailer"
15:10:15 <petern> to support different length chains you will have to have a separate 'front' vehicle for each length and model
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15:11:26 <GTA2> wow!
15:11:51 <frosch123> though you can make additional parts invisible, and reduce their length by callbacks
15:11:54 <George> petern: you mean separate ID, that can use the same graphics, that can be used from the 80h-FFFFh range. I suppose OTTD allows it, right?
15:12:04 <yorick> another new one with an unoriginal name impressed by the number of peopl on this channel?
15:12:24 <petern> frosch123... good idea :D
15:12:32 <frosch123> not mine :)
15:12:58 <George> frosch123: what for to make them invisible?
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15:13:12 <frosch123> to make them appear to have less parts
15:13:26 <frosch123> see serbian tram set
15:13:43 <frosch123> one tram you can refit to have an additional trailer
15:13:59 <frosch123> but in fact that one is always present, just invisible :p
15:14:26 <George> frosch123: You saw all my efforts in LV5 topic :(
15:14:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15122 /trunk/src/ai/ai_core.cpp: -Codechange: add a security assert, to make sure something never happens
15:14:48 <frosch123> most
15:14:48 <George> frosch123: What the case to save IDs above 80h?
15:15:11 <frosch123> huh?
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15:16:00 <frosch123> George: I guess you can also use "livery overrides" for articulated parts
15:16:01 <George> to have variant with invisible trailer instead to provide a new variant with head engine ID above 80h
15:16:07 <frosch123> not sure though
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15:17:45 <George> I hope FS1941 would be merged into trunk, so a list length should not be a big problem
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15:19:22 <frosch123> I still do not understand what you are heading for. Did you took a look at eGRVTS? It provides several trucks with different amount of trailers and no capacity in the cabin
15:23:55 <George> I tried eGRVTS in game, but did not have a look in code. From what I could see in game, I want achive the similar result, except that I would like to allow to attach the same trailer to several cabins, while in eGRVTS I could see only one cabin per trailer
15:24:12 <George> may be I've missed something
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15:29:36 <el_en> the rumour has that BSG413.
15:32:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15123 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (26 files): -Fix [NoAI]: 'const char *' implies that the return value should not be free'd, which is should .. so make them 'char *'
15:32:37 <George> frosch123: If part 1 has speed X and part 2 speed Y, what speed would ARV have?
15:32:57 <petern> min(x, y)
15:33:11 <frosch123> just like trains :)
15:34:08 <George> and power would be x+y?
15:35:59 <George> cost would be x+y, Rcost x+y,
15:37:17 <George> Cad=x (prop 19), and what would be with TE?
15:37:48 <George> weight x+y
15:37:59 <George> Correct?
15:38:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15124 /trunk/src/ai/ai_instance.cpp: -Fix: last memory leak related to NoAI
15:41:11 <frosch123> no, articulated parts can only provide capacity, but not e.g. power
15:41:23 <frosch123> weight and TE is not supported anyway
15:42:12 <frosch123> articulated train vehicles do not have weight
15:43:13 <frosch123> so rv would not get a weight either, if it would be implemented
15:44:46 <petern> hmm?
15:44:48 <petern> they do
15:44:51 <petern> or do they
15:44:52 <petern> hmm
15:44:59 * petern tries to think why
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15:59:13 <George> frosch123: Confused. Why do they affect speed, but not weigth or power?
16:00:07 <frosch123> they behave like trains
16:00:20 <frosch123> I was not involved in designing articulated vehicles
16:02:04 <petern> do they affect speed?
16:03:29 <frosch123> hehe, likely they do not :)
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16:08:23 <yorick> " 267 * 23 02 03 05 89 49 00 FF FF FF FF 01 06 00 CD 07 00 00 FF FF FF FF 05 00" <-- nforenum says offset 4 unexistant variable 49?
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16:10:03 <TrueBrain> petern: can it be that your grfid returns negative values? :p
16:11:02 <petern> TrueBrain: it's unsigned
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16:11:35 <frosch123> yorick: update your copy of nforenum
16:11:42 <frosch123> or ignore it
16:12:23 <yorick> I've got 3.4.6
16:12:35 <frosch123> there are separate data files
16:12:37 <petern> TrueBrain: the last check is wrong though
16:12:43 <TrueBrain> printf("%d\n", grfid);
16:12:53 <TrueBrain> hmm .. weird
16:12:53 <yorick> what to do with them?
16:12:57 <petern> if (*grfid == 0) ... cos grfid hadn't been initialized yet
16:13:01 <petern> TrueBrain: yes, %d is signed
16:13:04 <petern> %u is unsigned
16:13:10 <TrueBrain> BUG! :p
16:13:15 <yorick> oh, put them in a directory
16:13:40 <frosch123> decimal grfids?
16:13:47 <frosch123> who does that?
16:13:53 <petern> TrueBrain does :D
16:13:56 <TrueBrain> frosch123: just a temporary output :)
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16:17:32 <Rubidium> petern: the solution to your AI "problem" ;)
16:19:40 <Progman> content download?
16:20:20 <Progman> I thought there was some content right issues about downloading stuff via openttd?
16:21:03 <Rubidium> it's all in nuances...
16:21:23 <Rubidium> we've been saying that downloading it from the server you're connecting to won't work
16:21:31 <Rubidium> this downloads it from a central location
16:21:46 <Rubidium> and only authors are allowed to upload their stuff to there
16:22:04 <Rubidium> if they don't want to, you won't see it and there's not much you/we can do about that
16:24:38 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: Shiny.
16:25:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r15125 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2544]: Do not try to determine the next order destination, if there are no orders.
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16:33:52 <petern> my ai problem?
16:35:37 <Rubidium> yeah, that you had to download a proper one from the forum
16:37:00 <Wolf01> gah, stupid server... I tried to update apache/php/mysql and see if that fixed some problems I had and then I wasn't able to log on mysql anymore, not because of the password but because it couldn't connect to himself -.-
16:37:08 <petern> that wasn't my problem
16:37:15 <petern> i don't play against ais...
16:37:39 <Wolf01> luckily I had a backup and now all works like before
16:44:23 <petern> problem is
16:44:27 <petern> you're using lamp
16:45:19 <Rubidium> you mean you're better of using wimp?
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16:47:34 <petern> llpp, perhaps
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16:48:00 <petern> wisa
16:50:17 <Wolf01> ahahah, I'm an idiot... I was trying to remove a strange piece of road in the middle of a city when appeared an error popup "can't remove road from here"... tried and tried, seemed impossible to remove that road, only that unmeaningful error message... I was about to filing a bug report when I disabled the transparency and found that the road was a petrol station -.-
16:50:34 <petern> hehe
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16:53:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15126 /trunk/ (23 files in 8 dirs):
16:53:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Feature: downloading content from a central server ( where
16:53:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: authors can upload they NewGRFS/AI etc. This should make joining servers that
16:53:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: use only NewGRFs that are distributed via this system easier as the players can
16:53:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: download the NewGRFs from in the game. It should also make it easier to see
16:53:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: whether there are updates for NewGRFs and make the necessary updates.
16:53:53 <Wolf01> ok, now I want to learn how to make grfs because I want to add new graphics for sloped stations, but first I need to know how use them in the code
16:54:06 <Wolf01> woooooo what a wonderful feature!
16:54:17 <TrueBrain> @op
16:54:17 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
16:54:27 *** TrueBrain changes topic to "0.6.3 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | Word of the day: Widelyerly"
16:54:29 <TrueBrain> @deop
16:54:29 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
16:55:02 <petern> bananas, eh?
16:55:09 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15127 /extra/masterserver_updater/ (15 files in 3 dirs): [MSU] -Add: code for the content server.
16:55:32 <TrueBrain> BaNaNaS!
16:55:50 <Wolf01> TrueBrain you make cats quarrel
16:56:34 <Wolf01> each time you type, some cats out of my window start to quarrel :D
16:56:52 <TrueBrain> I have that gift, yes :)
16:57:17 <frosch123> nice logo, TrueBrain :)
16:57:37 <TrueBrain> Osai did that :) I think it is brilliant :)
16:57:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15128 /trunk/bin/ai/ (library/graph/ library/pathfinder/ library/queue/ wrightai/): -Remove: remove WrightAI and AI Libraries from SVN, as they are now available via the content service
16:58:14 <TrueBrain> ( Osai is our logo-guy ;))
16:58:26 <petern> uh
16:58:28 <petern>
16:58:31 <petern> is not quite what you want
16:58:47 <snappy> so anyone got a thomas the tank engine set for ttte :)?
16:58:52 <TrueBrain> but it seems such a lovely page!
16:59:04 <TrueBrain> (why wouldn't you want that? :()
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17:05:27 <petern> that reminds me
17:05:32 <petern> i was eating a banana...
17:06:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15129 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/ (regression.nut regression.txt): -Fix [Regression]: no longer test the AI Libraries
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17:08:07 <petern> hah
17:08:14 <petern> no i've got... noai!
17:08:42 <TrueBrain> about time, I say
17:09:49 <Progman> isn't the content system online or do I have to wait for a dns update for
17:10:25 <petern> hmm
17:10:31 <Rubidium> Progman: it's online, there's just not much in there yet
17:10:44 <frosch123> Progman: works for me, just downloaded wrightai :p
17:10:59 <TrueBrain> Progman: the DNS was created several hours ago
17:11:10 <petern> www/ switch between what should be there and what you last visisted
17:11:11 <Progman> okay, then I know I have to wait for the dns update ;)
17:11:13 <petern> -s
17:11:21 <petern> is there a cache that needs tweaking?
17:11:53 <TrueBrain> petern: no sense you make do not
17:12:14 <petern> if i go to it is fine
17:12:18 <frosch123> TrueBrain: when you click on "frontpage" or "bananas" sometimes you get the wrong page
17:12:23 <petern> if i go to is shows
17:12:24 <petern> OR
17:12:32 <petern> if i got to it shows fine
17:12:39 <petern> then if i go to it shows bananas
17:12:47 <petern> depending on either cache value or a cookie, or something, i dunno
17:12:51 <petern> but it's wrong
17:13:01 <TrueBrain> very very weird .. as the server is serving the correct content
17:13:06 <TrueBrain> which browser?
17:13:13 <TrueBrain> any (cache)proxy?
17:13:54 <TrueBrain> the only thing I can see going wrong, is a KeepAlive HTTP connection, and lighttpd fucking up :)
17:13:55 <petern> chrome, firefox, IE
17:14:02 <petern> no proxy
17:14:19 <TrueBrain> very weird ...
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17:14:43 <frosch123> I guess it is something with the language detection
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17:14:59 <TrueBrain> .. <- I can go back and forward between those sites as often as I want .. always show the correct site
17:15:01 <frosch123> If I switch between de/ or en/ it changes
17:16:49 <TrueBrain> disabled languages completely now
17:16:52 <TrueBrain> (always 'en')
17:17:11 <TrueBrain> sorry, can't reproduce ...
17:17:50 <TrueBrain> and it is too crowded on * to do any real tracing :)
17:19:20 <petern>
17:19:22 <petern> ^ not making it up
17:19:23 <TrueBrain> anyway: dinner!
17:19:47 <TrueBrain> petern: I have absolutely no idea how that can happen,e vne more as I can't reproduce ...
17:19:54 <TrueBrain> I believe you my friend :)
17:20:13 <TrueBrain> all I can think is a local cache of some kind
17:20:22 <TrueBrain> but even that should be a none-issue ..
17:20:40 <petern> local cache in three browsers?
17:20:51 <TrueBrain> but give it, say, 10 minutes; then all cache information is purged on the server-side (you never know)
17:21:03 <petern> yes, after a few minutes it works
17:21:04 <TrueBrain> if it still happens, I will just redirect to
17:21:07 <TrueBrain> bbl :)
17:21:25 <petern> but then it doesn't go to the other site instead
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17:26:35 <frosch123> [18:23] <TrueBrain> if it still happens, I will just redirect to <- that one seems to work :)
17:27:35 <el_en> @seen Darkvater
17:27:35 <DorpsGek> el_en: Darkvater was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 21 hours, 21 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <Darkvater> good nighyt :)
17:35:04 <yorick> does redefining an action2 id by a varaction2 that refers to it make any sense?
17:35:49 <frosch123> it does not create a loop if you think so
17:36:26 <yorick> does it work as expected then?
17:36:49 <frosch123> yes, if you do not expect it to loop :p
17:37:10 <yorick> I expected it to return empty sprites
17:38:36 <petern> once an action 2 is refered to, you can't change that reference
17:39:01 <petern> if you redefine the 'same' action 2 you are just defining a new one for use later
17:39:33 <yorick> ok
17:39:52 <frosch123> oh, that was the question :)
17:40:23 <petern> i think
17:40:27 <yorick> nforenum complained about redefining an action2 without making any use of it
17:41:01 <petern> that would make sense
17:41:50 <yorick> but if I use it in that action2, I make use of it there, don't I
17:42:27 <TrueBrain> petern: should be fixed now
17:42:59 <petern> \o/
17:43:17 <petern> the url is silly now ;(
17:43:38 <TrueBrain> as in?
17:43:50 <petern> it's not "" :(
17:43:54 <petern> I WANT THE MOON ON A STICK
17:44:21 <TrueBrain> your client spoils that :p
17:44:22 <TrueBrain> haha :)
17:44:28 <TrueBrain> I will debug later if I can reproduce it ...
17:44:33 <TrueBrain> for now I am going out dancing :)
17:44:38 <TrueBrain> have a good evening all :)
17:44:56 <petern> my client?
17:45:06 <petern> firefox, chrome and IE are hardly... rare :p
17:46:48 <Prof_Frink> petern:
17:47:01 <petern> quite so
17:55:13 <SpComb> Rubidium: is there discussion about this bananas/content feature somewhere?
17:56:51 <SpComb> Rubidium: I can't even find any thread about it on the forums :o
17:56:57 <SpComb> was it developed in secret?
17:57:06 <petern> looks like it
17:57:27 <petern> whose noses are out of joint now? ;)
17:57:42 <Prof_Frink> Heh, lots of wrightais = lots of plane crashes
18:00:11 <petern> so technically all those GPL newgrfs could be put on there...
18:00:52 <Prof_Frink> It would be polite to get the respective authors to put them there...
18:00:59 <Prof_Frink> But do it anyways.
18:00:59 <petern> quite so
18:01:01 <petern> hahah
18:01:05 <petern> "Click a game from the list to select it"
18:01:20 <petern> p'raps not quite what you want it to say
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18:01:55 <Rubidium> SpComb: there has been some discussion in the noai channel
18:02:18 <petern> SpComb said it couldn't be done!
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18:06:21 <frosch123> petern: is action 4 still static safe with multiple-engine-newgrfs ?
18:07:36 <SpComb> petern: I said what couldn't be done?
18:08:35 <SpComb> I'm just kind of curious because I'd have thought that such a feature being developed would warrant some kind of discussion before being pushed into trunk
18:08:55 <frosch123> yeah, better to push it first :p
18:09:01 <Prof_Frink> Why would anyone get on a plane when one alls out of the sky pretty much every day?
18:09:18 <Prof_Frink> s/alls/at least/
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18:09:33 <Prof_Frink> No, that's not what I was thinking.
18:09:42 <Prof_Frink> s/at least/falls/
18:10:33 <mrfrenzy> Prof_Frink: you're talking about ingame now, or irl? ;)
18:10:47 <SpComb> so seeing that commit message from Rubidium came as a pretty large surprise
18:11:44 <Prof_Frink> mrfrenzy: ingame. irl some crashes are survivable.
18:12:00 <mrfrenzy> indeed, irl flying is much safer than driving
18:12:13 <mrfrenzy> if planes crash, so should also buses, and sometimes trains
18:12:37 <Aali> driving can be pretty dangerous in OTTD :P
18:12:58 <Aali> a few level crossings and a busy maglev line can do wonders
18:13:02 <Zuu> mrfrenzy: And so doas buses, if they get stuck by trains.
18:13:27 <frosch123> [19:14] <mrfrenzy> indeed, irl flying is much safer than driving <- I still wonder how they can keep the small ufos secret for so long
18:13:38 <mrfrenzy> for every bus being hit by a train, there should probably be about 10000 buses colliding with lorrys or other buses
18:14:21 <Zuu> mrfrenzy: do I just need to say B e l u g a s? :)
18:14:23 <yorick> how do I know my passwords are secure?
18:15:00 <mrfrenzy> how does Belugas come into this :P
18:15:08 <mrfrenzy> yorick: you don't, you can only hope they are
18:15:20 <mrfrenzy> when you're sufficiently worride they've been compromised, change them
18:15:22 <petern> frosch123: who knows :)
18:15:47 <Zuu> mrfrenzy:
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18:17:42 <mrfrenzy> well, he has a few points....
18:17:58 <mrfrenzy> however a few of the things in the first paragraph can simply be explained with communism
18:18:11 <mrfrenzy> which does not fit very well into a capitalist game :P
18:24:39 <SpComb> petern: I'm still not quite sure what you meant with "it couldn't be done"
18:25:57 <petern> with ottd's networking code
18:28:16 <SpComb> I didn't quite mean it like that, I was mostly just complaining about the inflexibility of the network code , the content commit duplicates a lot of the network code
18:28:48 <petern> heh, i haven't looked at it
18:30:07 <Rubidium> SpComb: duplications? where?
18:30:31 <SpComb> <-- like adding it's own select() "loop" for the content TCP connection
18:31:44 <Rubidium> SpComb: I've tried to not "duplicate" that, but that was *much* worse
18:31:51 <SpComb> and the socket+resolve+connect in NetworkContent_Connect, the server-side code also has its own accept/etc stuff
18:33:17 <SpComb> Rubidium: as I said, I disliked the inflexibility of the existing network code
18:33:24 <Prof_Frink> 4,546 killed in plane crashes in one month
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18:34:23 <Rubidium> feel free to write patches to fix it...
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18:34:45 <SpComb> so I ended up not continuing work on my content-download thing any further, but that was mostly because I didn't have the time to work on anything anymore
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18:38:58 <petern> well you can ditch that now i guess ;)
18:39:01 <SpComb> Rubidium: I would be willing to spend time working on the OpenTTD network code, but it's a difficult bit of non-trivial work to do all at once in isolation from trunk
18:39:14 <SpComb> petern: yeah, all it amounted to was an ugly prototype
18:39:40 <SpComb> what I've been working on recently is the network code for a C++ project at university
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18:41:30 <Rubidium> SpComb: should be possible to do it in small steps and not one big bang
18:41:51 <petern> yeah!
18:42:21 <petern> is it going to be merged in trunk tonight?
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18:44:06 <SpComb> Rubidium: that's a painful process and I have no clue how much support I'd get
18:44:14 <SpComb> s/that's/it's/
18:46:01 <el_en>
18:48:48 <SpComb> anyways, said university project ended before christmas, the code is publicly available under the GPL, and I've tried to continue development on it
18:49:05 <SpComb> and I'm pretty happy with how the network code for that turned out
18:58:44 <Sacro> Rubidium: could not be found. Please check the name and try again.
18:59:31 <el_en> Sacro: did anyone happen to integrate Joplin's music to OTTD?
18:59:47 <petern> janice?
18:59:57 <petern> eer
19:00:00 <petern> janis
19:00:02 <petern> or scott
19:00:13 <el_en> Scott
19:00:45 <SpComb> has, but ns2 doesn't
19:01:01 <SpComb> it's still serving serial 2008101901
19:03:23 <Rubidium> slapped TB about that, not sure how long it takes till it gets fixed though
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19:11:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r15130 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
19:11:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-17 18:48:58
19:11:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 3 changed by Excel20 (3)
19:11:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hebrew - 62 fixed, 103 changed by tarkil (165)
19:11:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 15 changed by fanioz (15)
19:11:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 21 fixed, 23 changed by darkttd (44)
19:11:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 16 fixed, 9 changed by khh (25)
19:11:07 <SpComb> there's a one-hour negative TTL on it as well, so you probably don't want to spread the link too much yet
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19:18:12 <Aali> how do you enable desync debugging with MSVC?
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19:30:03 <yorick> how should I download stuff form the content database without using openttd itself?
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19:31:28 <Rubidium> Aali: add a preprocessor macro RANDOM_DEBUG
19:31:45 <Rubidium> probably ends up with /DRANDOM_DEBUG in the compiler instantiation
19:31:54 <Rubidium> where you have to set it in GUI is unknown to me
19:34:23 <petern> right click openttd in the solution explorer
19:34:26 <petern> click on properties
19:34:29 <petern> go to c/c++
19:34:32 <petern> go to preprocesor
19:34:36 <petern> in there
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19:36:26 <Terkhen> good evening
19:38:22 <el_en> buenas tardes
19:41:23 <Zuu> yorick: You can't yet. Its still WIP I think.
19:41:36 <yorick> you can only download it from ingame?
19:41:56 <Zuu> yorick: Yes
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19:42:15 <Aali> Rubidium, petern: right, thanks
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19:44:59 <petern> what're are the allowed svn prefixes?
19:45:40 <petern> er
19:45:42 <petern> -are :/
19:46:05 <Rubidium> commit something without a prefix and it'll tell you
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19:47:13 <Roujin> okay, now I'm curious...
19:47:35 <Roujin> what is "tomatos"?
19:47:40 <yorick> it's red
19:48:02 <petern> similar to tomatoes
19:49:11 <Roujin> I'm pretty sure you're working on some big thing for OpenTTD that abbreviates as "tomato"
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19:49:43 <petern> who is?
19:49:50 <Aali> Roujin: if you find out what it is, let the devs know
19:50:08 <Roujin> the whole lot of you :P
19:50:16 <petern> not i
19:51:04 <Aali> Roujin: where did you come up with this little conspiracy theory of yours?
19:51:30 <Roujin> since BaNaNaS was just born right out of nowhere (at least for us lesser unknowing beings)...
19:51:34 <petern> hmm, 2 grfs on content now
19:51:57 <Roujin> and when NoAI was merged to trunk, it was done with this cryptic message: (svn r15027) -Merge: tomatos and bananas left to be, here is NoAI for all to see.
19:52:15 <Ammler> :-)
19:52:32 <Aali> Roujin: if you had been in the right place at the right time, you would've known about it a (fairly) long time
19:52:35 <Roujin> that was clearly a hint to the coming BaNaNaS :)
19:52:48 <Aali> and also, do you REALLY think they put that much thought into it? :P
19:53:25 <Roujin> of course ;) do you think they let anything happen by chance?
19:53:59 <Zuu> Roujin: It was the best idea that came up. Of course best depends on what criteras you have :)
19:54:00 <petern> well they let me commit...
19:56:38 * petern does not visit the sekrit developer channels so did not know of this either
19:57:00 <Zuu> Actually I wouldn't call that a secret developer channel.
19:57:04 <Rubidium> .noai isn't that secret
19:57:07 <petern> not that one
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20:04:46 <yorick> the secret hangout for codecs and music lovers?
20:04:52 <yorick> coders*
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20:16:20 <glx> petern: bananas was discussed on .noai only
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20:29:01 <Ammler> he, I hoped to hide the GRF, if I use custom as required openttd client.
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20:32:09 <petern> pardon?
20:32:59 <Ammler> a newgrf, which needs a patch to be installed.
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20:34:01 <Ammler> it is nice :-)
20:34:49 <Roujin> the "lumber mill PS"?
20:35:26 <Ammler> Roujin: yes.
20:36:05 <Ammler> it does support random tree cutting and such.
20:36:24 <Ammler> PS=PhilSophus
20:37:07 <Ammler> well, I meant with nice the repo, not the grf, but nvm. ;-)
20:37:33 <Roujin> hmm... can I view the stuff I've agreed to somewhere again?
20:38:09 <Roujin> nvm, found it in my history
20:38:43 <Roujin> wouldn't hurt to have that available somewhere though even if one is already logged in..
20:39:14 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: ^ feature request for bananas
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20:41:06 <Progman> is bananas tested already?
20:41:20 <Rubidium> as much as we could
20:41:59 <Roujin> which kind of packaging do you prefer? i think doesn't say so anywhere
20:42:01 <Progman> so stuff like "Name: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" and "Name: </table><b>HTML injection</b>" is checked?
20:42:39 <Roujin> e.g. tar, zip..
20:42:39 <Rubidium> Progman: you've got to talk to TrueBrain about that
20:43:04 <Rubidium> Roujin: tar(.gz|.bz2) or .zip (iirc)
20:44:03 <Prof_Frink> So, now it's easier to get grfs, will you make it easier to configure them?
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20:44:23 <Ammler> Prof_Frink: grfpresets
20:44:28 * yorick would like a higher string cap
20:44:34 <yorick> for grfs
20:44:48 <yorick> I mean...less strings than vehicles
20:45:00 <glx> Rubidium: now we need to open a browser when clicking on the URL in openttd ;)
20:45:27 <Ammler> glx: that would rock :-)
20:45:45 <Progman> TrueBrain: Am I allowed to test bananas agains html/php exploits?
20:45:46 <Ammler> but not possible, I fear.
20:47:54 <Ammler> Progman: I would only, if he is around
20:48:03 <glx> it's highly platform dependent
20:48:27 <Ammler> as you can't delete a newgrf after adding anymore
20:48:40 <Ammler> (maybe the best feature at all)
20:48:58 <Alberth1> game crashes if playing with computer opponents without explicitly downloading an AI
20:49:27 <Ammler> glx: I guess, easy on windows, but hard on the others.
20:49:38 <glx> Ammler: yes something like that
20:49:50 <Ammler> like copy&paste
20:51:40 <glx> maybe a button "copy link" is doable
20:52:44 <Ammler> now, i will only do commits like that to the GRFPack anymore: [21:51] <CIA-2> Ammler * r543 /grfpack/trunk/5_industries_cargos/lumbermill/: Remove: use BaNaNaS
20:53:23 <SmatZ> :o)
20:53:57 <petern> heh
20:54:16 <petern> no doubt a lot of grf authors won't want to use it
20:54:49 <Ammler> well, I fear more thos authors which aren't around
20:55:42 <Ammler> an other author can't really have something against, it supports exactly, what they want, always the newest.
20:56:51 <petern> not really
20:57:07 <petern> it's bad enough with grfcrawler
20:57:11 <Ammler> <-- planetmaker asked also about autodownload
20:58:15 <Ammler> <-- with explainations
20:58:48 <petern> &#35;openttdcoop Wiki
20:59:05 <petern> you, er, don't need to escape # in html...
20:59:26 <Ammler> hehe
20:59:44 <Ammler> Osai: ^
21:05:05 <Zuu> Progman: TrueBrain is out tonight so I think you have to hug him tomorrow, unless he come back later tonight.
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21:06:52 <Wolf01> 'night
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21:14:38 <Aali> hmm
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21:15:33 <Aali> getting cargodest to work with current trunk is hard :/
21:17:32 <Aali> the new vehicle destructor and the order class don't go well together with cargodest
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21:24:16 <yorick> how does variable C4 like it when the construction year is beneath 1920?
21:25:50 <Roujin> it goes boom
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21:27:28 <frosch123> yorick: usually they are clamped
21:35:27 <Ammler> someone able to explain how the "warranty stuff" is defined, if you release something with the copying text only.
21:35:49 <Ammler> (GPL)
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21:38:03 <Roujin> hmm, weird. my grf "hover_bus_1.0.grf" got repackaged into a directory called "Hover_Bus.1.0" - with a . instead of a _ in one location
21:38:19 <Ammler> he, I see, you do not use additional text in your sources either.
21:38:47 <Ammler> Roujin: version number in the grf?
21:38:54 <Ammler> !s/grf/filename/
21:39:20 <Roujin> am I supposed not to do that?
21:39:29 <Ammler> buh
21:39:46 <Ammler> if it is not compatible like NARS and NARS2
21:40:07 <Ammler> but else, I see troubls loading bugfix versions
21:40:52 <Roujin> I see
21:40:54 <Ammler> and it is annoying for using presets
21:41:13 <frosch123> pack7.3/z_obsolete/grvts/grvts_7.1.grf pack7.3/8_vehicles/road_vehicles/grvts/grvts.grf <- hehe, obsolete or not (listed by fdupes)
21:41:31 <Ammler> :-)
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21:45:28 <Ammler> frosch123:
21:45:42 <Ammler> should be the only one I hope...
21:48:31 * Ammler adds fdupes to our release todo list :-)
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21:53:28 <Ammler> frosch123: how to exclude .svn ?
21:54:31 <frosch123> don't know, I exported the pack
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22:06:45 <edeca> Damn, newai is almost better than me in the early years ;)
22:06:48 * edeca learns a thing or two
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22:08:02 *** haraldkl has joined #openttd
22:08:48 <haraldkl> Hi
22:08:53 <Zuu> Hello haraldkl
22:08:58 <haraldkl> I'm on Revision 15132
22:09:05 <edeca> I'm not!
22:09:22 *** ecke has quit IRC
22:09:22 * edeca is on h7436c57d
22:09:43 <petern> edeca: what is this 'newai' you keep talking of?
22:09:55 <haraldkl> and the program crashes after playing for a while (I think when starting the first AI) because it doesn't find a suitable AI
22:10:13 <Zuu> haraldkl: Do you have crash.dmg?
22:10:35 <frosch123> didn't alberth already said that today?
22:10:50 <Yexo> frosch123: yes, it was reported in some forum thread
22:10:53 <petern> lol
22:10:55 <Zuu> hmm, that was not the same one as i got though.
22:10:57 <petern> yeah it crashes
22:11:12 <frosch123> but he did not created a bugreport, evil alberth :)
22:11:28 <haraldkl> no I don't have a crash.dmg yet
22:11:40 <petern> don't worry about that
22:11:44 <petern> it's easily reproducable
22:12:10 <haraldkl> Well if you already now about it, thats fine ;)
22:12:33 <petern> you can create a report, but crash.dmg is not necessary
22:12:50 <petern> (probably)
22:13:31 <edeca> petern: Whatever it's called. noai :)
22:13:49 <edeca> petern: It's good.
22:15:22 <Yexo> edeca: NoAI is only a framework for AIs, there are several AIs available, so that still doesn't answer the question which one you're actually using
22:16:04 <edeca> Yexo: Very true. I'm using wrightai (which isn't doing so well) and admiralai (which is doing splendid)
22:17:49 <Roujin> AdmiralAI still buggers up sometimes though
22:18:09 <edeca> Roujin: In what way? Mine has managed planes and road vehicles so far and is profit making
22:18:24 <Yexo> edeca: no trains?
22:18:37 <edeca> Not yet. They aren't disabled or anything.
22:18:43 <Yexo> are you sure of that?
22:18:50 <Yexo> there are several ways to disable them
22:19:02 <Yexo> under configure patches you can disable every transport type for the AI only
22:19:04 <edeca> Hm. They aren't disabled in the patch GUI, that's the only way I'm aware of.
22:19:17 <Roujin> I've started a game with a lot of AIs and two of three instances of AdmiralAI got an error after some time
22:19:18 <Yexo> you can disable it by setting max trains to 0
22:19:40 <edeca> I'm using trains, so that's not done I don't think
22:19:47 <Yexo> Roujin: if you are able to reproduce that, can you please post the error (or a screenshot of the ai debug panel) to the admiralai forum thread?
22:20:01 <edeca> Yexo: Did you write admiralai?
22:20:09 <Ammler> Yexo: was there ever a competition between old (original) AI and i.e. AdmiralAi?
22:20:19 <Zuu> Running lot of AIs means that conflicts happens which shows buggs that normally don't happen. Found two such with CluelessPlus yesterday before I released v1.
22:20:32 <Yexo> no, because the first thing that was done in the noai branch was removing the old ai
22:20:38 <Roujin> Yexo: will do if I see it happen again
22:20:45 <Yexo> thanks Roujin
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22:23:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15133 /trunk/src/ai/ai_instance.cpp: -Fix: Crash if no NoAIs are present.
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22:23:25 <EER> \o/
22:23:27 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
22:23:51 <EER> now only to wait until tomorrow's nightly before retrying ;)
22:23:58 *** Roujin has quit IRC
22:24:03 <petern> or just grab an AI...
22:24:12 <EER> good one
22:24:15 <edeca> EER: You want a compile?
22:24:27 <EER> nah, I'm not currently playing
22:24:27 <glx> EER: just download an AI using internal downloader
22:24:28 <edeca> EER: I've got trunk here (with debug enabled) for windows
22:24:36 <edeca> Fair enough
22:24:46 <EER> I'm looking through the source code to see what the ini music settings do
22:24:47 <petern> so this content list...
22:24:49 <EER> for documenting purposes
22:24:52 <petern> couldn't it get quite... large?
22:25:07 <EER> err... ini -> cfg.
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22:26:46 <petern> also, i thought squirrel had some issues which meant we couldn't use it?
22:26:57 <glx> we found a way :)
22:27:21 <edeca> What's the content list?
22:27:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember a commit saying "disable fibres"
22:27:54 <Ammler> hehe, BaNaNaS helps to "spread" the NewGRFs :-)
22:27:58 <petern> it's a list of content
22:28:17 <EER>
22:28:26 <EER> that, but in-game
22:28:53 <glx> it's bananas not content ;)
22:30:02 <EER> you mean?
22:30:20 <edeca> Haha, a redirect to bananas.
22:30:48 <EER> heck, it works. I remember reading
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22:31:28 <EER> ah yes, the commit log for r15126
22:31:32 <EER> oh well, whatever works :P
22:31:48 <Prof_Frink> I must say, these AIs rather show up how hung over CS was when he wrote the original AIs.
22:32:06 <petern> must you?
22:32:29 <Prof_Frink> Yes.
22:32:39 <petern> okay, you may do so.
22:32:45 <haraldkl> petern: thanks for the patch, the game doesn't die anymore (just complaining, it can't start the AI) :D
22:32:53 <Prof_Frink> These AIs rather show up how hung over CS was when he wrote the original AIs.
22:33:08 <edeca> Yeah man, a dude writing computer players in assembly language.
22:33:15 <edeca> That must have been so darn easy.
22:33:27 <SpComb> someone needs to put up a youtube video demonstrating the NoAIs' intelligence
22:34:56 <edeca> SpComb: Mine just short sold 3 US banks, ran for senator and started a hedge fund
22:35:16 <SpComb> TrueBrain's been busy writing the NoAI APIs
22:35:24 <frosch123> "I also pusted a bug report to Flyspray, FWIW." <- what shall this FS comment tell me?
22:36:19 <glx> it's an idiot :)
22:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> "hey you suckers, be glad i bothered at all."
22:36:54 <glx> he mixes ECS and alpine and expect it works
22:37:34 <glx> of course default industries are not disabled as they are not default
22:37:42 <edeca> Ooh, "industry is in the town zone now and will be closed down". When did that come in?
22:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> edeca: probably a newgrf custom message
22:38:48 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: newgrfs can do that much? Pretty cool.
22:38:53 * edeca should read the newgrf specs
22:39:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, newgrfs can do custom industry closure checks, and deliver custom closure messages
22:39:51 <glx> and custom production changes messages too
22:43:51 <TrueBrain> DNS issues fixed
22:44:02 <edeca> Hm, how do road vehicles handle multiple drive through stops? If I build them next to eachother, will they balance between stops?
22:44:36 <Eddi|zuHause> baaah... i totally hate websites which play sounds...
22:44:38 <glx> they don't
22:44:45 <edeca> glx: Thanks.
22:44:56 <petern> it should do but doesn't
22:45:09 <petern> also, dns serial numbers only affect zone transfers, no?
22:45:27 <glx> edeca:
22:45:44 <edeca> petern: Pretty much, yes.
22:46:39 <petern> hmm, well, sleepy time
22:46:42 <edeca> petern: Though some (like djbdns) don't even require the serial number
22:46:48 <edeca> petern: Pfft, it's early! But night :)
22:46:55 <petern> admiral doesn't seem to build trains :(
22:47:18 <glx> it used to build trains
22:47:28 <Prof_Frink> admiral's building trains here
22:47:32 <Yexo> it still did so yesterday
22:47:42 <Prof_Frink> It's even networking!
22:47:44 <TrueBrain> petern: when I left my home, I understood the problem of the website; something in the memcache goes wrong (and I think I know what), but when you are logged in, you don't get cached pages .. guess what I was ;)
22:47:58 <edeca> It doesn't for me at the minute.
22:48:27 <edeca> And I'm glad, or it would be richer than me :)
22:48:52 <petern> TrueBrain, i thought so but didn't see a 'login' link on the site anywhere...
22:49:05 <petern> okay, it's building trains now
22:49:12 <petern> i didn't have any industries first time round
22:49:19 <TrueBrain> no, that part is going to be integrated any time soon :)
22:49:27 <Yexo> Prof_Frink: what is the maximum initial loan?
22:49:37 <edeca> 300k?
22:49:41 <Yexo> petern: ^^ aws ment for you ;)
22:49:50 <Prof_Frink> Wright seems to be most profitable, but needs to learn to use large airports
22:50:00 <petern> hee, it's build pbs
22:50:03 <petern> i set it to 500000
22:50:10 <Yexo> that should be enough
22:50:13 <petern> god it builds fast
22:50:16 <Prof_Frink> edeca: 500k
22:50:20 <Yexo> and you haven't disabled trains for AIs in the config settings?
22:50:29 <petern> no
22:50:51 <Yexo> using any newgrf trainset?
22:50:59 <petern> no
22:51:01 <glx> trains here too
22:51:05 <petern> 22:49 <@petern> okay, it's building trains now
22:51:27 <edeca> Yexo: I'm using newgrf trains, is that would would stop it?
22:51:35 <Yexo> petern: somehow I missed that line :)
22:51:43 <edeca> I love the way grf authors hide their mark under invisible buildings
22:51:44 <Yexo> edeca: it should not
22:52:14 <glx> edeca: not all authors do it
22:52:14 <petern> hmm, ai station layouts are odd :o
22:52:26 <petern> roof over 3/4 but not at one end :/
22:52:52 <Yexo> petern: that's because it first builds a 6x2 stations and then deletes one end of the station
22:52:54 <glx> normal for a 2*4 station
22:53:30 <edeca> glx: Well I guessed not. It's a bit childish, but funny at first
22:53:42 <petern> 2*4 is built fully roofed
22:53:44 <petern> so yeah
22:53:56 <petern> 2*6 and then removed... for some reason ;)
22:54:00 <Ammler> is there already some documentation about BaNaNaS?
22:54:16 <petern> i guess without industries there wasn't enough to transport to warrant trains, or something
22:54:38 <Yexo> passenger transport by train is not yet implemented :p
22:54:58 <edeca> Yexo: I'm sure the passengers prefer planes :)
22:55:01 <edeca> Yexo: Did you write it?
22:55:12 <Yexo> edeca: admiralai? yes
22:55:20 <glx> convoy too IIRC
22:55:27 <Yexo> convoy is by geektoo
22:55:33 <edeca> Yexo: Good job, it's great :)
22:55:59 <glx> Yexo: but you wrote 2 AIs
22:56:18 <edeca> Hm what happened to company colours in the menu (perhaps it's a newgrf).. all of them have the same colour in the dropdowns for train/road/company
22:56:23 <Yexo> glx: yes, I wrote anpai too, but that was a test ai for plane suport, and is deprecated since plane support in admiralai
22:56:37 <Ammler> edeca: blue?
22:56:42 <Ammler> then it is OpenGFX
22:57:01 <Ammler> oh no, that is wanted
22:57:12 <Ammler> you could change the colors for different types
22:57:37 <edeca> Ammler: Yes, I am using some opengfx stuff. It'll be that, thanks
22:58:08 <Ammler> (is that still not fixed?)
23:04:28 <edeca> Also odd how the north american set has different graphics per wagon, that's cool
23:04:54 * edeca wonders why the engines can carry 1t of limestone by default
23:05:41 <Aali> dont play with ECS or turn off regearing
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23:06:14 <edeca> No idea what regearing is and I do play with ECS :\
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23:06:26 <dihedral> hello Ammler
23:06:49 <Ammler> Hey dihedral
23:06:52 <petern> use PBI with NARS2 :D
23:06:58 <Aali> edeca: if you disable ECS you will notice that you can "refit" engines to change their stats (gear ratios)
23:07:21 <Aali> but this can be disabled via newgrf parameters if you do want to play with ECS
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23:08:05 <edeca> petern: I'll remember that for the next new game :)
23:08:16 <edeca> I quite like ECS, never tried PBI
23:09:18 <edeca> petern: Now go to bed! :D
23:09:29 <edeca> Aali: That's a weird feature!
23:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i found ECS to be way over the top, i'm quite happy with PBI
23:10:07 <glx> ECS is overcomplicated
23:11:37 <edeca> It is, I've just not tried PBI. I couldn't get it to work last time for some reason.
23:12:15 <edeca> Bah, my game keeps crashing with newgrfs. I really should debug it :\
23:12:39 <Ammler> PBI is like one vector of ECS
23:13:16 <Ammler> ECS is playable if you don't use all vectors at once.
23:13:31 <Aali> ^ what he said
23:13:31 <Ammler> or you could set parameter 15
23:13:47 <edeca> Parameter 15? I just turn the # of industries way down
23:13:53 <Ammler> no limits
23:14:07 <RS-SM> hey guys
23:14:12 <edeca> I've just started a game with PBI, it just adds brewery?
23:14:14 <RS-SM> odd question
23:14:17 <edeca> Hi RS-SM
23:14:26 <RS-SM> how do you send money to other players
23:14:28 <edeca> RS-SM: Odd questions are all I ever ask :)
23:14:39 <RS-SM> I want the AI to at least give me a challenge
23:14:51 <Yexo> RS-SM: you can only do so in multiplayer
23:14:52 <edeca> RS-SM: Are you playing with noai? :)
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23:15:02 <Yexo> in sp you can cheat companies and then cheat some money
23:15:11 <RS-SM> Oh, derp
23:15:13 <Yexo> but as edeca says you really should try noai
23:15:14 <edeca> Yexo: CHeat how?
23:15:18 <RS-SM> noai?
23:15:22 <Yexo> ctrl+alt+c
23:15:28 <Yexo> RS-SM: make sure you have a recent nightly first
23:15:29 <edeca> RS-SM: A feature added in the latest openttd nightlies
23:15:32 <edeca> Yexo: Oh that ;)
23:15:33 <RS-SM> Also, high sped trains are the best
23:15:48 <RS-SM> I only use the nightly because the mods wouldn't work with the standard
23:15:56 <RS-SM> what does noai do?
23:16:05 <edeca> RS-SM: You can use new AI players, written by other people
23:16:08 <Yexo> noai is a framework for new AIs
23:16:09 <glx> it removes AI :)
23:16:14 <edeca> RS-SM: So it allows all sorts of scripted AIs
23:16:34 <edeca> Very soon we're going to have to allow noai to buy shares in the player ;)
23:16:44 <edeca> I'm at 300k value and admiralai is at 100k
23:17:09 <RS-SM> I'm at 20 million
23:17:13 <RS-SM> this game took what...
23:17:20 * RS-SM started in 1865
23:17:28 <edeca> RS-SM: Do you play with ECS or similar?
23:17:35 <edeca> Woah, I start in 1940 usually ;)
23:17:47 <RS-SM> I use the america set but what is ECS
23:17:52 <RS-SM> god I feel like a noob
23:18:06 <edeca> RS-SM: New industries, I think the choice at the moment is ECS or PBI
23:18:11 <RS-SM> oh yeah
23:18:17 <edeca> RS-SM: Google them, or check the coop wiki
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23:18:31 <RS-SM> PBI is oil based vectors, right?
23:18:48 <edeca> Crikey, I can actually answer questions instead of ask them for once ;)
23:19:09 <RS-SM> I was playing on the Africa Scenario
23:19:28 * edeca goes to bed
23:19:32 <RS-SM> it takes so long to cross the continent... even with 747s
23:19:42 <RS-SM> Night edcea
23:19:45 <RS-SM> thanks btw
23:21:13 <glx> try plane speed 4/4 :)
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23:23:07 <Ammler> glx: 1/1..1/4 :-P
23:24:07 <Prof_Frink> OK, these AIs like buses a little too much
23:25:09 <Yexo> Prof_Frink: which AIs?
23:25:46 <Prof_Frink> Convoy, Clueless and Admiral.
23:25:47 <RS-SM> thanks bro
23:25:58 <RS-SM> also busses = the best
23:26:02 * RS-SM trains are horrible to run
23:26:03 <Yexo> convoy and clueless are bus-only AIs, so no wonder they like busses :p
23:26:20 <RS-SM> I mean they all either get lost constantly
23:26:28 <RS-SM> or take so long to fill up I am making pennies
23:26:31 <RS-SM> but busses...
23:28:16 <Prof_Frink> Transport, 1963-05-18.png
23:28:38 <RS-SM> 404 bro
23:28:47 <Yexo> RS-SM: copy the complete link
23:28:48 <Prof_Frink> Try harder.
23:29:06 <Prof_Frink> Or just go to images/ and click the link
23:30:15 <RS-SM> also, is there any way to mod airports?
23:30:43 <Yexo> if you only want to change the graphics, yes
23:30:57 <Yexo> adding completely new airports is currently not possible
23:31:12 <RS-SM> hmm, I would like to add more runways
23:31:32 <Prof_Frink> RS-SM: Replace the airport with a bigger one.
23:31:34 <RS-SM> My middle of Africa base has 4 intercontential airports connected by shuttle trains
23:31:43 <Prof_Frink> Crivens
23:32:12 <RS-SM> I used the russian jets to shuttle goods from the mines to the north, then shuttle the goods via trucks to the cities
23:32:23 <RS-SM> it took me a while to set up
23:32:37 <Ammler> upload an older version of the same grf wasn't a good idea :-)
23:32:43 <RS-SM> ouch
23:33:00 <RS-SM> If any of you guys added grfs, thanks by the way
23:33:15 <RS-SM> realistic airplanes are cool
23:35:53 <Ammler> Clickable urls might be impossible but maybe a readme reader or something like that.
23:37:14 <Rubidium> Ammler: adding a pdf reader?
23:37:35 <Ammler> :-D
23:37:51 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: No, what openttd needs is an email client.
23:38:36 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: only an email client?
23:39:31 <frosch123> it should include an ide and a compiler so you can patch it at runtime
23:39:36 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium:
23:41:41 <Zuu> Prof_Frink: NoAI started out road-only. That is why Clueless is all about buses. Also buses are easier than rail.
23:42:22 <Prof_Frink> Zuu: I know it's a bus-only AI, I was just impressed by the queue.
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23:42:48 <Zuu> hehe, yea the queue of buses, when you run many bus-AIs :)
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23:44:22 <Prof_Frink> And one of them has 813 RVs.
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23:45:49 <Zuu> Oh CluelessPlus has a nice feature of placing signs on the road when it decides to sell a bus :-p
23:46:04 <Prof_Frink> Yeah, I saw them
23:46:16 <dihedral> congrats Rubidium
23:46:17 <dihedral> :-)
23:46:21 <Zuu> That was a clear mistake from my side to not comment that out. hehe
23:46:26 <Aali> an IDE and compiler in ottd? just play OTTD 2, it has ALL the patches already
23:47:12 <Zuu> Aali: Cool, where can I get OTTD 2 :-P
23:47:14 <Prof_Frink> Aali: And takes half an hour to go through the options?
23:47:23 <dihedral> Aali, LOL
23:47:28 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: nope
23:47:43 <Rubidium> it contains all patches, thus has an infinite number of options
23:47:45 <Aali> Zuu: dunno, ask That Guy on The Forum (tm)
23:47:57 <Rubidium> thus it takes an infinite time to go through them
23:48:09 <Rubidium> however... compiling likely takes infinitely long too
23:48:17 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: Eeek, even KDE has a finite number of options
23:48:22 <dihedral> with _all_ patches, does he mean, all versions of all patches too?
23:48:32 <Aali> it has all past, present and future patches
23:48:47 <Aali> all versions
23:48:48 <Zuu> Hopefully they provide pre-built packages, so you don't have to wait infinite time to compile it yourself. Problem is just for them to compile it. :)
23:49:14 <Prof_Frink> Zuu: Unfortunately they take infinitely long to download
23:49:28 <Prof_Frink> Or you can order it on an infinite number of DVDs
23:49:36 <Zuu> Aali: all versions, with all possible bugs
23:49:49 <Prof_Frink> Postage is fairly steep on that option though
23:49:49 <Aali> of course
23:50:31 <Aali> but thats cool, it also includes all the bugfixes
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23:54:07 <orudge> How peculiar, OpenTTD doesn't seem to like to build with the November 2008 DirectX SDK (dxguid.lib apparently is different), but seems fine in the March 2008 SDK
23:54:12 <orudge> I do wish Microsoft wouldn't keep breaking things
23:54:46 <Rubidium> orudge: it misses directmusic stuff
23:54:52 <orudge> Ah
23:55:14 <Rubidium> as explained on the several wiki pages 'bout MSVC
23:55:21 <orudge> I did wonder if it might be