IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-16
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00:02:26 <Wolf01> and stations too, but they look really weird
00:02:49 <Wolf01> and with weird I mean really weird
00:04:33 <Wolf01> this is the best I can do
00:05:21 <glx> you really need a new prop in grf spec :)
00:06:11 <glx> because current graphics are not good on slopes
00:09:03 <SmatZ> roadstops aren't that bad ;)
00:12:33 <Wolf01> now I'll post the patch and the screenshot in the forum, maybe somebody will be interested and maybe I can get suggestions to improve it
00:24:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15101 /trunk/ (32 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed)
00:24:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Change [API CHANGE]: more consistant naming for consts:
00:24:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: INVALID_TOWN_RATING -> TOWN_RATING_INVALID
00:24:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: INVALID_TRANSPORT -> TRANSPORT_INVALID
00:24:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: INVALID_ORDER -> ORDER_INVALID
00:24:27 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: INVALID_GROUP -> GROUP_INVALID
00:24:27 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: GROUP_ALL/DEFAULT -> ALL/DEFAULT_GROUP
00:27:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15102 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_event_types.cpp: -Fix (r15101): somehow makedepend fucked up (patch by Yexo)
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00:51:06 <Belugas> George, let's make that house name callback
00:51:31 <Rubidium> a man with a mission (no, not Stacey)
00:54:23 <Rubidium> Dakar 2009, Hans Stacey's team uses MAN trucks and has "MAN with a mission" as slogan
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01:03:32 <Belugas> :) a well of knowledge
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02:34:16 <Belugas> mmh.. wonder if the callback should be availabe even when the house is not completed
02:58:57 <Belugas> feels a tiny bit wrong
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03:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the correct phrase would be "how are you"
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03:35:36 <RS-SM> why are long units the best
03:35:46 <RS-SM> I mean they make epic truck runs possible
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10:19:26 <frosch123> "GROUP_ALL/DEFAULT -> ALL/DEFAULT_GROUP" <- somehow that does not fit into the others :s
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10:57:00 <TrueBrain> frosch123: haha, wrongly typed :)
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10:58:30 <frosch123> you might fix it on the forums then :)
11:00:09 <TrueBrain> pff .. all this effort :)
11:02:03 <petern> every day there is an API change post :p
11:05:55 <TrueBrain> don't you just love it? :)
11:06:01 <TrueBrain> I really do hope it is the last one though ...
11:06:26 <TrueBrain> stupid enough, in the NoAI branch I asked 3 (!) times if anyone had anything spotted which should be removed .. none ... not a day after trunk-merge, I have more reports than time to fix :(
11:06:53 <TrueBrain> short to say: branches are stupid test-beds
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11:08:35 <Alberth> maybe branches should be build automagically as well? (as branch-nightlies)
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11:09:49 <TrueBrain> Alberth: eeuhh... they are
11:09:52 <TrueBrain> but tnx for the suggestion
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11:35:03 <frosch123> poor DorpsGek, totally overworked
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11:41:25 <petern> # someone left the cake out, in the rain
11:41:36 <petern> #i don't think i can take it, cos it took so long to bake it
11:42:09 <petern> # and i'll never have that recipe again, oh no
11:49:44 <petern> haha, weird al's version :D
12:10:48 <planetmaker> hm... we got an assertion on our public server with r14996.
12:11:00 <planetmaker> (I know, it's old...)
12:20:07 <planetmaker> well... same in r15097.
12:20:25 <planetmaker> 12:07 <@valhallasw> openttd: /home/openttd/svn-public/src/train_cmd.cpp:2864: bool VehicleOrderSaver::SwitchToNextOrder(bool): Assertion `order != __null' failed.
12:23:05 <planetmaker> openttd: /home/openttd/svn-public/src/train_cmd.cpp:2851: bool VehicleOrderSaver::SwitchToNextOrder(bool): Assertion `order != __null' failed.
12:23:16 <planetmaker> in r15097. I'll make a bug report, I guess...
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12:30:13 <SmatZ> planetmaker: please do :-)
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12:30:34 <planetmaker> I attached the save which requires to run for a minute or so before it happens.
12:34:39 <tosse> is there a way not to let the game end at 2050?
12:34:54 <planetmaker> tosse: just end the game. Nothing easier than that, or?
12:35:15 <Zuu> tosse: Eh, just click to close the newspaper and you continue
12:35:30 <planetmaker> doh. _not_ end...
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12:36:07 <Zuu> Enable vehicles never expire and you can play to year 500000 or so (have forgoten how many zeros it was)
12:36:31 <Zuu> After that year, you can still play, just that the years doesn't count up. :)
12:37:16 <roboboy> just like ttd used to at 2050?
12:37:44 <Zuu> And if you ever reach year 5 million and want to have years that increase at derember 31, use the year cheat to get back in time every now and then.
12:45:56 <petern> might be good for Rob :)
12:46:04 <petern> (except that he's a ttdpatch user)
13:00:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15104 /trunk/src/ (57 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: unify the resolving of the xyz kbytes/megabytes strings.
13:03:15 * petern ponders unifying his lunch
13:04:10 <Rubidium> into an acid liquid in your stomach?
13:04:48 <petern> so it's MiB for all :/
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13:05:10 <petern> what about those who call them Octets?
13:05:20 <petern> oh, they're not here :D
13:09:01 <OwenS> Octets? What about nonets! :P
13:09:01 <petern> i guess we'd need a uint128 to go any further...
13:09:40 <OwenS> GCC has one IIRC. I don't know if it's only on x86_64 and I don't know whether you can do arithmetic with it or not
13:10:10 <petern> generally you use a bignum library after 64 bits...
13:10:34 <SmatZ> typedef unsigned int uint128 __attribute__ ((mode (TI)));
13:10:44 <SmatZ> but it's supported only at 64bit archs
13:11:02 <OwenS> And it's mainly used for quickly shoving data around with SSE
13:12:48 <OwenS> Shoving data around with SSE, not manipulating it
13:13:10 <OwenS> As in, just telling the compiler to use SSE loads and stores to move data 16bytes at a time
13:14:03 <SmatZ> ok, I have never tried to code SSE code in gcc... I just do things in ASM...
13:14:11 * OwenS wants to know how his loop is going from 1002 to 17735940
13:14:20 <OwenS> I'm becoming vary familiar with GCC's inline ASM :p
13:14:41 <OwenS> Though I guess it comes with the kernel land territory
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13:14:51 <petern> why not just write in assembly?
13:15:01 <OwenS> Because then GCC can't inline it
13:15:42 <George> Sorry for delay. I was ill. But now I feel myself much better and I'm back. Hope to see Belugas ;)
13:16:27 <frosch123> already doing so :)
13:16:49 <George> I tried to make a code as you've suggested, but it looks more difficult than I expected
13:17:18 <George> I had to provide at least 10 states instead of 8 :(
13:17:25 <OwenS> inline void* __GetVector(int num) { void* vec; asm("movl %es:%[num], %[dest];" : [dest] "=r" (vec) : [num] "r" (num * 4)); return vec; }
13:17:36 <OwenS> I typed that off the top of my head though ;-)
13:19:33 <OwenS> It's a pain in the arse debugging code at -O3 also -_-
13:21:24 <SmatZ> why are you debugging at -O3 then?
13:21:38 <OwenS> Because it doesn't pagefault without it
13:21:41 <SmatZ> I hope you use recent version of gcc, too
13:22:23 <SmatZ> pagefault 8-) /me likes peformance optimisations so code doesn't pagefault :-)
13:25:17 <OwenS> As in, pagefault when accessing an unmapped address
13:25:31 <OwenS> Made worse by the fact that the code which is pagefaulting is fiddling with the page tables
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13:26:11 * Zuu is happy he isn't fiddling with ASM at all
13:26:32 <OwenS> It's actually faulting in C code
13:26:55 <petern> a pagefault is for mapped access
13:27:04 <petern> a protection fault is unmapped
13:27:19 <petern> page faults being normal
13:27:20 <frosch123> George: hehe, looks like you will get trouble in the vehicle list in any case
13:27:27 <OwenS> Processor exception 15, page fault, pushed condition code indicates page is unmapped
13:28:24 <George> frosch123: I see, but I hope you'll invent something for this case ;)
13:28:55 <OwenS> The x86 General Protection Fault is mainly for segment violations
13:29:17 <petern> "On the x86 architecture, accesses to pages that are not present and accesses to pages that do not conform to the permission attributes for a given page (protection faults as described above) are both reported via the page fault processor exception."
13:29:36 <petern> general protection fault != protection fault :)
13:30:02 <petern> so protection fault is distinct from page fault, except x86 reports it the same way
13:30:02 <OwenS> Exactly. It's pagefaulting, and getting to my pagefault handler, which is rightly Panic()ing because the kernel can't page fault
13:32:50 * OwenS builds i586-elf-gcc again (GCC 4.3.2 instead of .1)
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14:02:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r15105 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix (r15104): signed/unsigned warning
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14:18:21 <frosch123> lol, mb still did not get it :s
14:20:46 <petern> it's simple enough to add separately, i have a patch that does so
14:21:03 <petern> but the nfo spec does not mention anything about MaxTE for powered wagons
14:21:26 <petern> although i'm of the opinion that powered wagons are obsolete now
14:21:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you shouldn't add the max_te, but the resulting force
14:22:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. sum(min(force from power, force from max_te)), instead of min(sum(force from power), sum(force from max_te))
14:23:44 <frosch123> [15:23] <petern> but the nfo spec does not mention anything about MaxTE for powered wagons <- you can just define maxte for any wagon, whether it is powered or not
14:23:54 <frosch123> though that totally fails for the current implementation :p
14:24:11 <petern> yes, you can, but stuff doesn't :)
14:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause> with the real implementation, it would make perfect sense...
14:24:27 <petern> mind you, dbsetxl is broken in regards to powered wagons anyway
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14:25:25 <Eddi|zuHause> dbsetxl probably outdates half of the powered wagons features
14:25:41 <petern> there was a bug in ttdpatch with regards to the nfo spec
14:25:45 <petern> dbsetxl followed ttdpatch
14:25:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like 4 years old now?
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14:30:25 <Eddi|zuHause> max_te should have a direct correlation to the braking power, shouldn't it?
14:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. when doing an emergency brake
14:31:17 <petern> that's another thing that's messed up in ottd :D
14:31:32 <petern> and of course the fact that there are no braked wagons
14:33:37 <petern> frosch123: hence the ice3 has masses and masses of power
14:33:56 <frosch123> never transport passengers :)
14:34:31 <petern> hmm, did we ever do wagon-aging?
14:34:49 <petern> i remember trying it but it not working very well
14:35:14 <frosch123> I was quite surprised that all existing newgrfs supported it
14:35:21 <George> frosch123: I did not understand your comment on FS2546 - how can GRF change it?
14:35:28 <frosch123> err, all existing newgrfs on my harddisk
14:35:54 <frosch123> George: that comment was not for you :) it describes what's wrong in ottd
14:36:10 <petern> i tried doing that once before
14:36:19 <petern> but didn't achieve it very well
14:36:34 <petern> in theory it would save a little cpu time
14:37:12 <frosch123> but only when zoomed out
14:38:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15106 /trunk/src/ai/ai_scanner.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: printf-ing of garbage.
14:38:53 <petern> GetImage() is called for every moment of every vehicle
14:39:20 <petern> doesn't matter if it's in view or not
14:39:26 <worldemar> petern: even if it is not displayed?
14:39:42 <frosch123> yes, but it would be enough if it was called only when displayer, wouldn't it?
14:46:11 <petern> ah, you meant it could be changed do that
14:48:09 <frosch123> ah different issue is that vehicle lists, depots, ... use the same GetImage() but just use the other orientation
14:48:41 <frosch123> which looks quite weird for various newgrfs, e.g. av8 or also the testgrf in fs2546
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14:50:17 <frosch123> maybe those should use a set of default values for various variables, plus an extra variable (maybe callback info) to indicate list-view
14:50:31 <petern> they could, but is it worth it?
14:51:19 <frosch123> don't know, but there is also a separate purchase view :)
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14:53:50 <TrueBrain> do we have a function to make a std::string lowercase?
14:54:02 <frosch123> oh, cur_image is heavily used by effectehicles
14:54:55 <frosch123> kind of animation stage
14:55:01 <petern> yeah, but that can stay
14:55:20 <petern> could be a reasonable performance boost on dedicated servers....
14:55:56 <SmatZ> frosch123: it is saved in savegame
14:56:17 <frosch123> hehe, desyncs :) thought about the same
14:56:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15107 /trunk/src/ai/ai_scanner.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: don't use so much explicit string copies if it is not required
14:56:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15108 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix: TarAddLink didn't lowercase strings, breaking tar-loading when using uppercase files
14:57:42 <petern> Eddi|zuHause likes linefeeds
14:58:19 <frosch123> hmm, linefeeds... I need to shop food today...
14:58:22 <petern> hmm, desyncs based on not having the correct cur_image?
14:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it looked differently in the edit window...
15:02:06 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15109 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_tile.cpp ai_tile.hpp ai_tile.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: add AITile::LevelTiles (Yexo)
15:06:53 <frosch123> yes, Sleeping Beauty :)
15:07:21 <edeca> Time for me to start a new game with it then!
15:07:37 <frosch123> if you find an ai that works :p
15:08:24 <edeca> Thanks, I'll look for it tonight
15:10:01 * petern wonders if he can get away with having a kebab tonight
15:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that's trivially easy, you go out the door, 2 street corners, and say "einmal komplett mit allem"
15:11:43 <Rubidium> petern: as long as you don't eat it days after eachother it should be fine
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15:14:58 <frosch123> "Well, for max_TE > P/v (which is always the case), it´s the same." <- maybe we should remove max_TE then ...
15:16:04 <petern> i've not had one for monthes
15:16:52 <petern> heh, that statement makes no sense
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15:17:49 * Belugas thinks he tries to gain credibility
15:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i had to read that multiple times...
15:21:02 * petern ponders adding continuous TE as well
15:26:54 <petern> hmm, maybe he's hung up on max speed still
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15:43:40 <Belugas> George, regarding the hnc *house name callback*, i was wondering if you would require the callback to occur even when the house is not completed?
15:48:44 <George> Belugas: why not? (I mean possible, but not a must)
15:50:41 <Belugas> it's easy to do, just wondering if it was required :)
15:50:44 <petern> does house completion affect much?
15:51:08 <Belugas> not that i remember :)
15:53:07 <petern> didn't think it was a relevant question
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16:06:55 <frosch123> maybe the architect is not sure how the house will turn out :s
16:11:27 <Rubidium> maybe there's no money during the build so they settle for something less
16:12:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15110 /trunk/src/gfxinit.cpp: -Fix: reading the shortname of graphicssets always missed the first character.
16:12:51 <Belugas> or maybe the grf write could advertise which step of the construction we are in...
16:13:02 <Belugas> or the time left before the house is completed
16:13:14 <Belugas> or wahtever would suits his imagination...
16:13:28 <Belugas> and we know that George has a very fertile one ^_^
16:13:31 <frosch123> OTOH if you play around 1170 they might start with some cheepish tower, and it will turn out as the tower
16:14:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15111 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix: when scanning a path and saying it should ignore tars, it didn't do so
16:15:02 <frosch123> hmm, but true, during construction not all variables are valid, while there are others
16:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like curches, where they switch building style halfway through?
16:19:39 <Belugas> mmhh... so if ever, we would need to provicdea way to block callbacks to use unsafe vars
16:19:49 <Belugas> like we do for industries, i guess
16:19:54 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: or they stop building all together
16:20:58 <frosch123> hmm, there is already a "construction stage" variable, so the rest should already have been dealt with
16:22:40 <frosch123> "biggest cathedral of the world [under construction]" -> "unfinished ruin" :p
16:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> which one is that?
16:24:24 <frosch123> I had none specific in mind, but AFAIK several collapsed during construction
16:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a different problem ;)
16:27:14 <Belugas> petern. do you have an information about the bin ranges of corporate cards for amex.visa and such?
16:27:30 <Belugas> i have 3 ranges for amex, but wondered if there are more
16:27:38 <Belugas> and no clue about the other cards
16:27:56 <yorick> is callback 37 called for the vehicle purchase list?
16:29:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15112 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (r15108): transform should include algorithm as that's where it's from. Furthermore not including it gives compile errors for some
16:29:26 <frosch123> cb 37 is a industry callback :)
16:29:56 <frosch123> 36, yes, but maybe with weird interpretations
16:31:12 <frosch123> search for "GetEngineProperty" if you want to know more
16:32:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15113 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp win32.cpp): -Codechange: unify calling ScanForTarFiles when determining the paths.
16:38:00 <petern> Belugas: i have them somewhere
16:39:06 <yorick> meh, no cargo capacity for planes?
16:39:54 <petern> ere it's from. Furthermore not including it gives compile errors for some
16:39:54 <petern> 16:29 < frosch123> cb 37 is a industry callback :)
16:40:17 <yorick> frosch123: isn't that only called for refits?
16:41:21 <frosch123> ah, you meant cargo including passengers/mail
16:41:25 <Belugas> petern, whenever you can find them, it would be very appreciated :)
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16:55:17 <apPlus> Starting new game named 'autopilot test server'
16:55:17 <apPlus> Landscape is temperate
16:55:17 <apPlus> Map is 256 tiles north to south by 256 tiles east to west
16:55:57 <apPlus> Starting new game named 'autopilot test server'
16:55:57 <apPlus> Landscape is temperate
16:55:57 <apPlus> Map is 256 tiles north to south by 256 tiles east to west
16:56:22 <apPlus> Starting new game named 'autopilot test server'
16:56:22 <apPlus> Landscape is temperate
16:56:22 <apPlus> Map is 256 tiles north to south by 256 tiles east to west
16:56:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Rubidium
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17:04:28 <apPlus> Starting new game named 'autopilot test server'
17:04:28 <apPlus> Landscape is temperate
17:04:28 <apPlus> Map is 256 tiles north to south by 256 tiles east to west
17:04:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought you wanted to put a ban, Rubidium?
17:05:03 *** petern sets mode: +b *!*@dslb-088-065-184-023.pools.arcor-ip.net
17:05:12 <Rubidium> but /ban ~.... failed
17:05:27 <Rubidium> and /kb doesn't work when the person isn't there
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17:13:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't set bans often, i presume :p
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17:18:53 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: if he would be TB, you would have already been banned
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17:19:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i would have phrased the statement differently then :p
17:26:32 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: don't underestimate the power of /ignore
17:36:14 <TrueBrain> frosch123: don't think so bad about me :(
17:39:13 * frosch123 pondered answering "practice is always good" but reconsidered.
17:39:39 <TrueBrain> "I am not going to tell you that, blablabla :p"
17:39:41 <TrueBrain> I love such statements
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17:47:17 <Eddi|zuHause> what i meant to say was: when i want TB to kick me, i know how to properly say that :p
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17:48:53 <dihedral> apologies - had a comma instead of a dot in the config... :-S
17:50:19 <Belugas> you mean apPlus was your creation?
17:53:01 <dihedral> you know what oftc will do with ya, right?
17:53:16 <el_en> more ban practise for Rubidium
17:54:25 <el_en> isn't that enough already?
17:55:41 <world> i was sleeping while my identify script fights agaunst nickserv
17:56:21 <dihedral> like, your identify script is fighting for the right password?
17:56:38 <world> why password become incorrect?
17:56:42 <dihedral> like, you do with with all accounts
17:56:55 <world> i logged in this evening and all was okay
17:57:23 <world> and... why this nickname...?
17:57:31 *** world is now known as worldemar
17:57:40 <Forked> and then your nickname was.. worldemar .. not world?
17:58:20 <worldemar> 21:51:36] * worldemar already in use. Retrying with world...
17:58:36 *** Yeggstry has joined #openttd
17:58:46 <dihedral> worldemar, the setting of your client, regarding 'secondary' or 'alternative' nick
18:02:34 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
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18:09:02 <Araldo> Guys why i don't have any train "maglev"?? I can build depot and stations with railway for maglev
18:09:29 <Araldo> but if i build the railway, it' use normal rail (for diesel-elect)
18:09:51 <Araldo> and when i try to buy trains from the depot, i can choose only 2 diesel trains
18:10:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to click and hold the rail button
18:10:22 <Eddi|zuHause> then chose maglev from there
18:10:41 <Araldo> i build depot and stations for maglev..
18:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> then the rail icons change from standard rail to maglev rail
18:10:53 <Araldo> but the railway are "normal"
18:11:25 <Araldo> hold on, i show you a screenshot
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18:14:12 <petern> it's like being on a modem
18:14:27 <el_en> i bet for him especially :)
18:14:40 <worldemar> maybe we just do it all together)
18:15:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i was just wondering if it's my line or his that is so slow :p
18:15:10 <worldemar> Araldo: really a modem?
18:15:46 <Belugas> hoo... too bad... i always love to abuse bandwith :(
18:15:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Araldo: for future screenshots, type Ctrl+S in the game
18:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it won't make a .jpg, but a .png
18:16:41 <Araldo> hold on, i'm uploading it to imageshack
18:16:47 <worldemar> heh if it be png... will be much more slower :)
18:17:20 <Eddi|zuHause> 8 bit pngs are not bigger than artificially-32bit-ified jpgs
18:17:42 <worldemar> Eddi|zuHause: hmm, that's true
18:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and jpg is horrible for anything that is not a natural photo
18:18:47 *** frederyk has joined #openttd
18:19:10 <el_en> well now that's a scaled-down screenshot, which is not funny.
18:19:18 <frosch123> is that narrow rail?
18:19:29 <worldemar> Araldo: hey, you building "normal rails" and they are normal as it should be
18:19:47 <frosch123> no, the title says "xxxx maglev"
18:19:49 <worldemar> but menu says maglev...
18:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, apparently, you loaded the "narrow gauge rail" grf
18:19:58 <angelo> does transporting mail have any impact on town growth?
18:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it replaced maglev tracks
18:20:20 <Eddi|zuHause> angelo: as does any other kind of transport
18:20:41 <angelo> cause on wiki it only mentioned passengers
18:21:03 <Araldo> i give you another screens take from the game (ctrl+s)
18:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Araldo: go to the newgrf settings
18:21:36 <Araldo> you can see maglev stations and depot
18:22:14 <Araldo> im in newgrf settings :D
18:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause> there you should see the narrow gauge rail grf
18:22:42 <worldemar> depot is not maglev)
18:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> remove it from the list
18:24:53 <Araldo> i have: Dutch station set, Industrial stations renewal, new large hq, us trai set version 0.87.4 and canadian trainset
18:24:54 <worldemar> screenshot this list ;)
18:25:30 <Eddi|zuHause> note that you should not use two train sets at the same time
18:26:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and the list is longer, you have a scroll bar on the right
18:26:06 <el_en> yeah, it's not a real country anyway
18:26:21 *** SHRIKEE has joined #openttd
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18:28:15 <Eddi|zuHause> DB Set is also a trainset
18:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and i think the canadian set contains narrow gauge, but i'm not sure
18:28:58 <Araldo> canadian remove sure :D
18:29:22 <Araldo> now i have to choose from us trains and db
18:30:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the dbset has a maglev which can only transport passengers, mail, goods and valuables, no other cargos (coal, steel, etc.)
18:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know about us set
18:30:56 *** SHRIKEE was kicked by Belugas (prrrrrrrrrrrrrt! Canada attack)
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18:32:05 <el_en> congratulations canada for your new, 24-hour clock.
18:32:11 <Araldo> ok i'm upgrading to 0.63
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18:32:41 *** mortal`` is now known as mortal
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18:34:36 <el_en> the phrase from rick mercer's "talking to americans".
18:36:03 <Araldo> ok now i have lock the maglev. whats years i need to try it?
18:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that, yes
18:36:22 <Araldo> ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh yeah!
18:37:20 <Araldo> eheheh yes :D (sorry for my poor english :) )
18:43:09 <Belugas> DaleStan, please, confirm me that all americans are not that stupid please...
18:45:55 <DaleStan> May I move to Canada now?
18:46:41 <DaleStan> At least I don't live in Iowa.
18:47:25 <DaleStan> And no, not all of us are quite that stoopid. (unintentional typo preserved.)
18:48:26 <Belugas> i can easily imagine :)
18:49:02 <Belugas> by the way, dress up well on your arrival, it's freakingly freezing in here
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19:02:10 * worldemar loves beat like "tux tux tux"
19:13:28 <Rubidium> general English question: what's the inverse of dependency; A depends on B so but B ... A
19:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause> really difficult...
19:16:50 <Rubidium> if it would be easy I would most likely known it myself ;)
19:17:06 <Rubidium> or could've found it quite easily
19:17:27 <Prof_Frink> The opposite of depends: is conflicts:
19:17:42 <petern> provides, if it's a debian package ;)
19:17:46 <el_en> is there a word for that in dutchish?
19:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> worldemar: that is passive, not really what was asked ;)
19:18:03 <petern> actually that's something else
19:18:31 <Rubidium> petern: provides is for the meta packages
19:18:45 <Rubidium> like mailserver and then sendmail provides mailserver
19:21:00 <frosch123> allow, enable, facilitate ?
19:22:51 <Rubidium> libc depends on libgcc so libgcc [allows|enables|facilitates|is needed for] libc
19:23:09 <Rubidium> so "is needed for" seems to be the best option
19:24:01 <Rubidium> demands is a synonym for depends on
19:27:02 <petern> just switch the words around ;)
19:28:45 <Rubidium> that might look odd, but I can always try ;)
19:29:37 * worldemar can't remember when he ate last time... going to eat to fix it)
19:29:53 <Rubidium> you should fix your memory
19:35:00 <frosch123> all advanced and map settings :) town-road-layout, town-size, industry-number, ...
19:35:43 * frosch123 almost said "hello"
19:36:56 <frosch123> OTOH Belugas: those settings might in fact be useful, just that usually noone cares about the SE. but as there is a patch in this case...
19:37:50 <Terkhen> mmm... I didn't thought about more map settings being asked when I did the patch
19:38:02 <frosch123> though I did not tested it, nor took a look at it :)
19:38:41 <Belugas> indeed not, obviously, Terkhen... it has been in my mind for a few moments already...
19:39:01 <Belugas> one thing : what exactly is the motivation for that patch?
19:40:22 <Wolf01> there's anybody who knows how to use a css for a page on mediawiki?
19:41:49 <Terkhen> when you start creating a new scenario without using random generation, you can do almost everything: place industries, towns, etc... so other map settings aren't so useful (and you can place random towns and industries already anyway), but you can't change the snowline after starting a scenario
19:41:54 <Belugas> otoh, frosch123, only the landscaping stuff would eventually be added, like height of water, level and such. road layout, trees and all are more regarding the scenario, not really landscape
19:43:26 <Yexo> Belugas: adding height of water is not usefull for creating a flat map :p
19:43:45 <George> well, I'd suggest "is required" instead of "is needed", Rubidium
19:44:28 <Belugas> by the way, Terkhen, you did thye same mistake as yorick, adding stuff that is not required for the patch
19:44:34 <Belugas> name of widgets, that is...
19:44:45 <Belugas> should have been on a patch of its own ;)
19:45:21 * SpComb wonders how to handle publishing doxygen files for a project
19:45:37 <SpComb> it wouldn't really make sense to regenerate them for every commit
19:45:49 <Terkhen> mmm... it can work without naming the widgets? it's my first time trying to do something with the gui
19:46:56 <Belugas> -{ WWT_IMGBTN_2, RESIZE_NONE, COLOUR_ORANGE, 10, 86, 24, 78, SPR_SELECT_TEMPERATE, STR_030E_SELECT_TEMPERATE_LANDSCAPE},
19:47:06 <Belugas> +{ WWT_IMGBTN_2, RESIZE_NONE, COLOUR_ORANGE, 10, 86, 24, 78, SPR_SELECT_TEMPERATE, STR_030E_SELECT_TEMPERATE_LANDSCAPE}, // CSCEN_TEMPERATE
19:47:11 <George> TTDP Wikiy says that Shorter train vehicles (prop 21) is up to 05 and larger numbers will not work properly, except at the end of the train. And would value 06 work in OTTD for the vehicle in the middle of consist?
19:48:31 <Terkhen> I can correct it as needed
19:50:22 <frosch123> George: OTTD conforms 100% to the wiki in that case
19:50:58 <George> so, shorter RVs are not possible?
19:51:41 <frosch123> OTTD does not allow grfs to define shorter vehices. Whether they could work I have no idea.
19:52:24 <George> I wanted to code a part in the middle of the articulated bus as a single part
19:52:26 <frosch123> I only know that longer vehicles will never work :)
19:54:06 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15114 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h): -Codechange: Add support for 8 byte action7/9 data, used as a mask for GRFID checks.
19:54:19 <George> Would it be possible to allow 06?
19:57:09 <petern> shorter vehicles may work, but 5 is already pretty short
19:59:59 <Araldo> bye bye :D anche thank you :D
20:04:46 * SmatZ 's "remove duplicates" code removes all items except one :-/
20:05:33 <worldemar> who knows what optimal train length?
20:05:42 <SmatZ> for (size_t z = 0; z <= i; z++) if (r[z] != s[z]) continue;
20:06:07 <worldemar> i mean, i make all my trains and all stations 5-squares length
20:07:14 <Aali> the optimal train length is the one that gives you the most money per time unit :P
20:07:19 <frosch123> worldemar: you shall always have a train loading, and AFAIK you should minimise the duration from start of loading to delivery
20:07:27 <SmatZ> (yes, I know I should sort the data and then compare to have O(n * log(n)) complexity...)
20:07:44 <SmatZ> or even O(n * d) with radix sort :-p
20:08:19 <frosch123> SmatZ: I thought SmallVector is our favorite template?
20:11:04 <thingwath> function names in czech is the OTTD style?
20:12:47 <frosch123> anyway, does your lecturer actually know about templates?
20:13:01 <George> petern: I wrote the place for shorter part (connector)
20:15:41 <frosch123> ok, I knew why I discontinued computer science :)
20:16:49 <SmatZ> programming isn't really my primary "Fachrichtung"
20:17:23 <frosch123> actually that was after 90 minutes discussion why the cancel button should be the preselected button for deletion-confimation :s
20:17:56 <thingwath> why there should be some confirmation for deletion? :)
20:20:06 * frosch123 still wonders why smatz used a german word above ...
20:20:40 <SmatZ> because I don't know the English word :-P
20:20:55 <Belugas> that was german? i though he sneezed :)
20:21:55 <goodger> SmatZ: you're probably looking for "field of expertise" [CV], "field", "area", "competency" [marketing drone]
20:22:40 <SmatZ> goodger: that's it, thanks :-) I wasn't sure "field" or "area" can be used with this meaning...
20:23:25 <SmatZ> I know electrostatic field, area around me, town zone (maybe :) ... but that's something really different :)
20:23:26 <goodger> I'm sure sneezing will be sufficient
20:23:42 <goodger> context is a wonderful thing
20:24:50 <petern> (i'd rather that, than jack)
20:25:57 <petern> hehe, first "no ai" bug report ;)
20:26:07 <petern> well, problem, i suppose
20:26:17 <goodger> "'no AI' is literally true"
20:27:44 <frosch123> "Time for the daily update" <- next AI to download :p
20:30:32 <Mucht> src/train_cmd.cpp:2851: bool VehicleOrderSaver
20:30:33 <Mucht> ::SwitchToNextOrder(bool): Assertion `order != __null' failed.
20:31:27 <frosch123> do you have a train without orders?
20:31:38 <frosch123> in that case likely already reported :)
20:33:43 <petern> anyone working on 2546?
20:33:44 <Mucht> frosch123: we are checking
20:33:45 * Belugas is on badCat, again and again
20:37:44 <Mucht> frosch123: indeed, empty order
20:46:32 <Belugas> Terkhen, don't mind the widget numbers, i'm doing them right now
20:52:07 <petern> # although the sun is shining
20:52:19 <petern> # there's one thing on my mind
21:02:56 <Belugas> hehe.. fro Bad Cat, i'm on Bar Horsie :)
21:03:04 * worldemar wonders who petern adressed that nice comment
21:04:44 *** curosurf has joined #openttd
21:09:06 <Belugas> meeee... i've got a coat on my legs, and i'm still freezing
21:09:23 <Belugas> not to mention the one on my shoulders...
21:09:36 <goodger> Belugas: go get some silver foil
21:11:37 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Set yourself on fire.
21:12:42 <petern> anyone up for a savegame bump?
21:13:01 <petern> cur_image still being a uint16 when it should really be a SpriteID...
21:15:09 <frosch123> does that cause problems with the effectvehicles?
21:15:40 <petern> they'll all be below 64k...
21:15:56 <SmatZ> could it cause problems?
21:16:09 <petern> it should be a spriteid, because spriteids are stored in it
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21:16:19 <petern> 64k should be enough ;p
21:16:38 * Prof_Frink needs about ten times that.
21:17:28 <SmatZ> if there is over 64k sprites and you define new vehicle?
21:17:44 <petern> most vehicles have their sprites recalculated on load
21:17:49 <petern> effect and disasters don't
21:18:08 <SmatZ> Vehicle::cur_image is uint16, too
21:18:12 <frosch123> so you can leave it 16bit in the save, as only effectvehicles need saving :p
21:18:33 <petern> SmatZ: that's what i changed
21:18:40 <frosch123> or just rename it for effectvehicles and put it in some union
21:18:57 <petern> it *is* a spriteid for effectvehicles
21:19:27 <SmatZ> I think it would be nice to have it saved correctly
21:19:36 <frosch123> I thought it was abused like engine_type was for bubbles
21:20:22 <petern> could save it as file_u16 | var_u32
21:20:53 <petern> it's not saved for normal vehicles at all
21:20:55 <SmatZ> or introduce another variable :-P
21:21:12 <SmatZ> so it doesn't have to be saved
21:21:27 <SmatZ> I don't know if this can't cause problems in the future
21:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause> who thinks about the future anyway.
21:23:00 *** davis is now known as davis_
21:23:14 *** davis_ is now known as davis-
21:26:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r15115 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Documentation: Add some widget enums to the widget array definition (Terkhen).
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21:29:56 <worldemar> if i build railstation exactly at center of the city, will it grow slower?
21:30:29 <Yexo> iirc a town doesn't grow if the tile under the sign is not normal road
21:31:22 <worldemar> i.e. it will not grow at all?
21:31:41 <Yexo> either it grows normally or it doesn't grow at all
21:31:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> the town growth algorithm walks along the roads from the town center
21:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> until it finds a suitible spot for a house
21:32:09 <worldemar> so, center _should_ be a piece of road?
21:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> if the tile under the town center is not road, it can never find a place
21:32:16 <frosch123> someone[tm] should change that :p
21:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> it _must_ be a piece of road
21:32:48 <worldemar> if there is a house at center tile?
21:33:00 <Yexo> there will never be a house at the center
21:33:07 <Rubidium> then you've hacked the savegame or the binary
21:33:28 <Yexo> every town starts with a road at the center, and if you delete that road, it won't grow anymore, so there'll never be grow a house there
21:33:38 <worldemar> seems like i just killed one town by destroying it's center by my station)
21:34:02 <worldemar> ou, one more question
21:34:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you can remove the station and put the road back ;)
21:34:22 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
21:34:28 <worldemar> may i "help" city to grow by expanding it's roads by my roads?
21:34:32 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: What if that house was built by a nearby town expanding after the player demolished the original town?
21:36:41 <worldemar> okay, i demolished some area at center, is it possible to know what exact tile is "center"?
21:37:07 <Yexo> but it'll rebuild road there by itself, just give it some time
21:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> note: the tile UNDER the sign, not BEHIND the sign. similar to the station sign, it is placed slightly higher
21:39:37 <worldemar> if city is not so big, and all roads are "circled" (haven't "free ends" to be expanded), and all roads are surrounded bu houses. algorithm wil not find a place for new house. growing stops?
21:40:30 <petern> until a house is removed
21:41:38 <Prof_Frink> Yep, Dundingham has a house on its centre tile.
21:44:14 <worldemar> sometimes houses are being rebuilded (one tile in town are automaically demolished and new house appears), when it should happen, and how i can speedup/slowdown that?
21:44:38 <worldemar> at all, why does town do it?
21:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that's worse than half empty
21:50:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you should let the air out
21:50:28 <worldemar> damn, you just daid that... now i want to drink.
21:50:52 <goodger> "samn, you just sais that... now I want to srink"
21:51:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r15116 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader.cpp: -Fix (r1): company money weren't correctly converted from TTD(P) savegames
21:51:23 <goodger> moral of the story: be careful with your regexen
21:52:06 <petern> especially in a channel full of pedants
21:52:57 <petern> hmm, transparent putty on to of desktop winamp visualisation
21:53:41 <petern> goodger, should we ignore that "d=s" is not a regexp?
21:53:59 <goodger> well, it is technically
21:54:11 <Prof_Frink> It's highly irregular.
21:54:38 <goodger> even if it only selects the string "d=s"
21:54:42 <worldemar> well, i am not experienced in regexps)
22:03:05 <petern> i wonder if anyone will ever make a visualisation system actually respond to music...
22:04:26 <goodger> there were a very few in WMP9 that worked properly
22:04:35 <janitor> i think people have done that already
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22:43:16 <goodger> vraa is being transient today
22:43:38 <goodger> vraa is now being non-transient
22:58:23 * worldemar looks at his clock... 2:58, so, night)
23:05:12 *** Ammler is now known as Guest795
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23:08:02 <TrueBrain> wb vs241204.vserver.de
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23:18:23 <Wolf01> now I should fix that stupid road bay
23:21:35 <Wolf01> also the train stations at the bottom... they are like a Picasso's painting, maybe one day I'll be famous like him for those stations
23:24:31 <goodger> atari have little else to do
23:24:38 <goodger> they'll be the SCO of the 2010s
23:34:11 <Wolf01> PBS debugging is fixed too, now it shows the correct trackbit on sloped stations
23:35:47 <thingwath> hm, sloped strange station is very strange idea
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23:38:47 <worldemar> it's subway, i guess
23:39:03 <thingwath> I mean for trains, I can imagine sloped bus stop :)
23:39:26 <thingwath> and funiculars are not present in openttd (at least without newgrf :))
23:40:08 <Prof_Frink> We need proper funiculars. Water powered.
23:40:18 <Wolf01> in OTTD all trains are funiculars... did you see any train climbing a 30° slope without at least rack & pinion?
23:43:24 <thingwath> But how would you do switching and shunting in such a station, that would be highly impractical :)
23:43:38 <Wolf01> brakes... strong brakes
23:44:20 <Rubidium> in OpenTTD's reality the brakes are very efficient
23:44:23 <Wolf01> ehm... do we have switching and shunting on OTTD? No, where's the problem then? :D
23:44:46 <thingwath> I just said it looks _strange_ :)
23:45:21 <thingwath> there are many strange things in openttd :)
23:46:18 *** Tim is now known as Tim-itry
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