IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-07
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00:03:35 *** WhiteRhino has joined #openttd
00:05:04 * goodger prepares the rhino gun
00:05:36 <WhiteRhino> Heyyy now. I won't lament about my connection this time, I promise
00:10:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14883 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_instance.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: the order of dtors can have devastating effects when wrong .. like asserting on AITestMode when closing
00:17:33 <WhiteRhino> Hehe. The Toyland/Mars conversion thing uses all cat names for vehicle brands.
00:20:02 <goodger> apple have named their operating systems after cats for a decade with great success
00:22:04 <FauxFaux> Leotard. Panther etc.
00:22:06 <goodger> jaguar, panther, tiger, leopard...
00:23:20 <WhiteRhino> I know little of apple OS's. =P
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01:39:53 <joachim> clicking tunnel mouths should select any train in the tunnel... has that been suggested as a patch?
01:40:46 <SmatZ> I don't remember anyone suggesting this
01:41:24 <joachim> ok... i think it would be useful
01:42:45 <joachim> i thought about doing it as a first thing, but wanted to know if it was already dismissed
01:43:01 <joachim> cause it seems pretty obvious... :)
01:43:18 <Yexo> after you suggested it, yes, by then it was obvious :)
01:43:55 <Yexo> this is the kind if suggestion I really like. Small, easy to code but still a nice improvement
01:47:03 <SmatZ> error: vahicle_gui.h: not a file or directory
01:47:10 <SmatZ> ‘const struct Vehicle’ has no member named ‘IsPrimatyVehicle’
01:47:19 <SmatZ> I have typo like in every second word :-/
01:48:45 <goodger> this might be a new record
01:49:11 <goodger> from wishlist bug submission to patch commit, eleven minutes
01:50:22 <SmatZ> I didn't say anything about commit :)
01:50:32 <SmatZ> other devs would have to say their opinion
01:50:43 <goodger> it was only 9 mins at that time
01:50:57 <goodger> you might have discussed and committed it within the next two
01:51:45 <Yexo> if you do this for trains, what about road vehicles?
01:53:41 <Yexo> what happens when an non-player buildable vehicle (like an ufo) is at that tile?
01:54:10 <SmatZ> Yexo: v->IsPrimaryVehicle() returns false
01:54:37 <SmatZ> if not, then I broke things a few commits ago :-P
02:03:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14884 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: simplify code responsible for opening vehicle view windows
02:05:14 * SmatZ likes commits with more lines removed than added :)
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02:22:29 <Belugas> let's go SmatZ, let's go!
02:27:01 <glx> trying to steal your nick?
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02:37:29 <SmatZ> Belugas: I thought everyone is sleeping :-)
02:39:02 <Belugas> no, i'm still working
02:44:05 <WhiteRhino> I'm awake, just doing other stuff. =P
02:48:42 <thingwath> if have only commits with more lines removed then added, eventually we would have no code at all (oh, yes, it could really improve compile times)
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03:03:29 <Belugas> not a word, you promised!
03:03:41 <WhiteRhino> I didn't say a word, I let out a breath. >.>
03:10:01 <Belugas> i'm trying, slowly, little by little, to put things up togueter
03:10:09 <Belugas> as well on code as in my mind ;)
03:10:24 <Lakie> Thats a good plan, avoid's burning one-self out.
03:13:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: we have -23°C here
03:13:28 <Lakie> Heh, and I thought it being -7C here was cold...
03:14:02 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and lovely snow ;)
03:14:11 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, i sympathize, 'cause i know how brutal it is :)
03:14:12 <Lakie> That, we don't get here. :(
03:14:30 <Lakie> Never snows around where I live, but if you go like 10 miles away it does. ;_;
03:15:26 <thingwath> -23 is almost too cold :)
03:15:29 <goodger> Lakie: I can sympathise, no snow here either, but sometimes, 10 miles away
03:15:42 <Belugas> Lakie, i think i'd better be at your place, honestly :)
03:15:45 <Sacro> when i where a lad it got down to -40
03:15:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it is actually FUCKFUCKFUCKCOLD
03:16:08 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: stop whinging :p
03:16:21 <goodger> Sacro: see the latest xkcd...
03:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i am not inclined to going outside :p
03:16:38 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: we've noticed
03:17:43 <Sacro> EGNJ 070250Z AUTO 28008KT 9999NDV OVC023/// 02/00 Q1022
03:18:44 <Belugas> youhou!! another bug killed!
03:19:17 <goodger> my car has iced up inside
03:19:30 <Sacro> goodger: turn on the fog lights
03:19:46 <goodger> I'm not convinced the engine will start
03:19:51 <goodger> hence heaters will not work
03:20:11 <goodger> I've driven it at -1 before, but never -6
03:20:17 <Sacro> french cars never convincingly start
03:20:39 <goodger> anyway I'm not planning to drive it, but I can see it from my window
03:20:50 <thingwath> my parents have french car and it is ok even at -10 :)
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03:21:37 * goodger is quite annoyed that he filled up when petrol had been stable at 89p for _weeks_ and it immediately dropped to 82p
03:22:33 <glx> the other way is true too, stable for weeks and increase when you need it
03:23:07 <thingwath> I have to buy new season ticket.
03:24:42 <thingwath> our kind mayor promised that they will have same price for next two years :)
03:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> fuel usually fluctuates by around 5ct during the week here
03:30:12 <Sacro> hmm, not sure what it is here
03:31:30 * Belugas fluctuates his way to his bed
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04:54:38 <lordnokon> i need help please with a couple of things
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05:09:03 <WhiteRhino> What's up? And, g'morning. =D
05:14:50 <lordnokon> i cant view my income and cost
05:15:02 <lordnokon> only my total balance, and its not minimized
05:17:11 <lordnokon> is there a way to stop industries to go up and down in production and only stay on one amount
05:17:38 <lordnokon> and how do i create multi headed trains without having one at the beginning and the end
05:18:32 <WhiteRhino> I actually don't have much of an answer for most of those questions.. except that I think you can only put a second engine on the rear of a train.
05:18:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you buy another engine and attach it like a wagon
05:23:55 <lordnokon> let me try that quickly
05:26:38 <lordnokon> ok seem to work, just a shame you cant remove the back enige
05:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, btw. there is an industry production cheat
05:26:55 <Eddi|zuHause> where you can manually adjust production at will
05:27:29 <lordnokon> ja i know about that option, but it sucks to have to change 500 industies all the time
05:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> some engines are forced to be double headed, you cannot remove the rear head of such an engine
05:30:57 <WhiteRhino> Can you put an extra pair of engines on if they're already double-headed? Like T.I.M. =P
05:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause> you can use vehicle set grfs, they usually offer more options on train constellations
05:32:11 <lordnokon> eddi how to i do the vechicle set grfs
05:34:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that is explained in great detail on the wiki
05:39:30 <lordnokon> dammit this finances window is starting to become a huge problem for me, because i cant see what my vechiles, planes, and trains are making
05:40:18 <Eddi|zuHause> do you have a screenshot?
05:40:38 <lordnokon> where must a send it to
05:41:57 <Eddi|zuHause> to an image uploading site, e.g. imageshack
05:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause> tip: if you type E<tab>, i will actually take notice that you want to tell me something
05:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause> that window indeed looks weird...
05:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i have seen anything like this before
05:55:41 <lordnokon> it just happenend out of the blue, i take it with all the modifications the amounts can go into the billions and more??
05:56:24 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, i can't help you there
05:57:27 <goodger> hmm, no obvious overflow
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06:00:09 <lordnokon> i remember in the old days if you started to make to much money you went into the red
06:00:14 <lordnokon> but nothing like that
06:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that has been solved
06:04:38 <lordnokon> do you think i should try and reinstall the openttd
06:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a typical windows mentality
06:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "if it does not work, just reinstall it"
06:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> you can try defragmentation as well...
06:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> or you perform a rain dance
06:06:37 <goodger> ..which has arisen out of the fact that windows problems are commonly solved with reinstallation of either windows or the offending software, since file corruption apparently occurs spontaneously
06:06:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that has probably a higher chance of actually finding the cause of the problem
06:14:32 * petern considers the benefits of tea
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06:56:08 <goodger> dihedral: snow on thursday :D
07:00:30 <dihedral> we have had snow here since monday :-)
07:01:05 <goodger> I haven't seen any snow since 2005-11-25
07:02:15 <Eddi|zuHause> snow is so rare that you remember the exact dates?
07:02:25 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: yes. yes it is
07:02:30 <lordnokon> dammit its 38 degree's here
07:03:54 <goodger> lordnokon: centigrade, or obscure US customary scale?
07:04:44 <lordnokon> uhmmm not sure have much that is in centigrade
07:05:08 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, Farenheit was a german
07:05:22 <goodger> lordnokon: I mean, you said "38 degrees" --- do you mean celsius or fahrenheit?
07:05:40 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: that may be so, but it doesn't mean the scale he invented is now an obscure US-only customary unit
07:06:09 <goodger> I've had too much wine
07:09:03 <dihedral> lordnokon, where are you from?
07:09:26 <goodger> dihedral: south africa
07:11:34 <dihedral> lordnokon, you wanna do me a fav?
07:11:54 <dihedral> could you join the autonightly game, for like 5 mins?
07:15:20 <Rubidium> petern: what has modified your nightly server?
07:24:49 <lordnokon> thats correct im from south africa
07:24:55 <lordnokon> im a systems administrator
07:25:39 <goodger> lordnokon: "you wanna do me a fav?" means "do you want to do a favour for me?" which means "if you would like to help me,"
07:25:57 <lordnokon> i know what it means
07:26:05 <lordnokon> what do you want me to do
07:26:17 <goodger> he wants you to join autonightly game
07:26:35 <lordnokon> i've neva done it before so you guys would have to explain to me
07:31:09 <petern> Rubidium, a locally applied patch, clearly
07:33:57 <dihedral> lordnokon, you do know how to download openttd and start it up, right?
07:34:10 <dihedral> i mean - i assume you do - you are chilling in the openttd channel
07:34:26 <dihedral> you just need to get the latest nightly and join the game
07:34:39 <lordnokon> where do i get the latest nightly
07:34:54 <lordnokon> guys you must remember im very new to all of this opensource changes on ttd
07:35:06 <lordnokon> i use to play this game like 10 years ago if not longer
07:36:07 <dihedral> i just assume to see a 'bad packet' error
07:36:27 <dihedral> i have seen it a few times with people connecting from SA
07:38:57 <Rubidium> dihedral: you should've shown him www.openttd.org/download-trunk
07:39:41 <Rubidium> cause tomorrow the link you gave will not "work" anymore
07:40:16 <goodger> Rubidium: surely he won't be using that link tomorrow
07:40:28 <dihedral> Rubidium, he said he's in sys-admin
07:40:46 <dihedral> i assume he will be capable of finding stuff out for himself actually
07:41:02 <lordnokon> where must i extract the files to
07:41:04 <dihedral> if not - he's gonna be the worst sys-admin i've seen (apart from that one kid in the forums)
07:41:04 <Rubidium> dihedral: ever seen "The IT Crowd"?
07:41:15 <Forked> Did you try turning it off and on again?
07:41:30 <dihedral> Rubidium, now that i see the response - i get your point
07:41:41 <dihedral> lordnokon, what do you do with an archive?
07:41:47 <goodger> have you noticed that Roy wears a different t-shirt in every episode?
07:42:18 <dihedral> Rubidium, no - i have not seen it - i'll see if i can find something on youtube :-)
07:42:19 <Rubidium> well... I was more referring to "Jen" as being in IT
07:44:48 <goodger> dihedral: it's about unmotivated computer support technician Roy, his extremely nerdy (almost certainly autistic) colleague Moss, their boss Jen, who knows nothing at all about computers and lied on her CV, and their boss, an unattractive fat idiot who constantly lusts after jen
07:45:09 <goodger> "this video is not available in your country", it says. hrmph
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07:45:32 <lordnokon> geez guys i know ive got to extract lol, but to which dir the game dir??
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07:45:50 <lordnokon> sorry, like i keep saying im totaly new at the opensource ttd
07:46:40 <dihedral> lordnokon, that has nothing to do with it being open source
07:46:56 <dihedral> if you extract the zip you downloaded, you will find a magical file
07:47:08 <dihedral> it's called README.txt
07:47:14 <lordnokon> ive extracted the files
07:47:44 <dihedral> now! if you open that file, say with your prefered editor (let the be MS Word 2008 if you want) you can actually read the contents of that file
07:48:07 <dihedral> it will - stragely enough - tell you all about the wee tid bits of getting it to run!
07:48:26 <dihedral> what have i bought upon myself?
07:48:27 <lordnokon> i know that, but its so much easier to just tell me what you want me to do
07:48:43 <lordnokon> do you want me to install the patch, because i've already got that version installed
07:48:52 <dihedral> <lordnokon> im a systems administrator <- i dont believe you no more
07:48:59 <lordnokon> or do you want me to copy those dir to the game folder
07:49:11 <dihedral> lordnokon, get back to work ;-)
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07:49:37 <dihedral> sorry - but i did expect you to use your thinker a bit for yourself!
07:50:02 <goodger> dihedral: he might be an MSCE...
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07:50:36 <lordnokon> msce 2000/2003/2008 with ISA and exchange
07:50:58 <dihedral> i know it's hard to get there.... but seriously...?
07:51:10 <goodger> he's not a system administrator at all, he only thinks he is
07:51:16 <WhiteRhino> Now I look like the simple guy around here but what's an MSCE? >.>
07:51:46 <goodger> WhiteRhino: microsoft certified engineer... basically it means you know how to use a point-and-click server configuration interface for windows servers
07:52:13 <Forked> I've never had much faith in the microsoft certs
07:52:14 <lordnokon> thats why world wide 95% of all companies use them... so what does that tell you
07:52:43 <goodger> lordnokon: that tells me that microsoft's marketing department is extremely well-funded
07:52:43 <WhiteRhino> Bah. I come here for the people, so sometimes I'd rather talk to the people. So nyah.
07:52:59 <lordnokon> oh come on guys, just because im nor sure what you want me to do with the files doesnt mean i dont know what im doing
07:53:10 * goodger is going to try the everyman sleep schedule in order to try and sort out his brain
07:54:24 <WhiteRhino> If I looked up every question I had instead of asking you nice people, I'd likely never have said word one.
07:54:28 <goodger> lordnokon: being able to compile software from a tarball in a standard build environment is considered basic knowledge
07:54:33 <dihedral> lordnokon, get it running (there is an *.exe!!! you should know what that is!)
07:54:48 <dihedral> goodger, he got a build!
07:54:51 <goodger> this tarball is precompiled!
07:55:03 <goodger> lordnokon: the one called openttd.exe
07:55:35 <goodger> and no! there are _not_ two executables in that tarball
07:56:22 <lordnokon> give me a sec to copy all of those files to the game directory
07:56:33 <lordnokon> oh come goodger get over it now
07:56:41 <WhiteRhino> *patpats Goodger* It'll be allright.
07:56:49 <goodger> lordnokon: you're meant to just extract the whole tarball to a new directory
07:57:14 <goodger> (and then copy data files from your original ttd, as it says in the readme)
07:57:47 <goodger> hmm, for some reason my cat smells overwhelmingly of cat food, despite not having recently eaten any
07:57:58 <dihedral> <dihedral> lordnokon, you do know how to download openttd and start it up, right?
07:57:59 <dihedral> <lordnokon> lol yes i do
07:58:04 <WhiteRhino> Perhaps the scent comes from the wrong end.
07:58:15 <goodger> WhiteRhino: I'm not smelling that end...
07:58:27 <dihedral> goodger, the digestion system :-)
07:58:52 <dihedral> does not always have to lead to the rear! :-P
07:58:55 <WhiteRhino> The cat could carry with it a cloud of catfood funk. Just a thought.
07:59:22 <dihedral> and some cats to have a poop-face :-D
07:59:38 <WhiteRhino> Rrgh! This website links to a downloadable file.. but that link just redirects you to the site's main page!
08:00:03 <goodger> hmm, my car's windscreen has now iced up; since it's facing the house, which is warm and poorly insulated, this means the exterior temperature is exceedingly low
08:00:11 <goodger> WhiteRhino: what page?
08:00:46 <dihedral> it's not openttd - sorry, there is no support for that
08:01:04 <WhiteRhino> Oh. I was more lamenting out loud, sorry. >.<
08:01:05 <lordnokon> sorry had to attend to another problem
08:01:10 <goodger> I didn't know gamershell was still running
08:01:14 <lordnokon> ok i extract all the files into a dir
08:01:23 <WhiteRhino> It's certainly not running well. =P
08:01:37 <lordnokon> you want me now to copy all of those files into the openttd dir or into the orginal location of the game
08:01:37 <goodger> lordnokon: have you actually read the readme file?
08:01:56 <goodger> no, we want you to copy the _data_ files into the _data_ directory
08:02:05 <goodger> as it says in the README FILE
08:02:10 <lordnokon> ok there's a data dir
08:02:20 <lordnokon> copy those files to the installation dir
08:02:33 <WhiteRhino> This is becoming like.. my mom trying to use the computer bad.
08:02:35 <goodger> to the DATA directory!
08:03:18 <WhiteRhino> Like Abbott and Costello but about computers.
08:03:38 <dihedral> lordnokon, read wiki.openttd.org
08:04:14 <dihedral> seriously! i am not in the mood at all anymore to support that!
08:04:21 <goodger> I didn't know MSCE stood for "mostly stupid, constantly emetic"
08:05:27 <lordnokon> all im getting now is that the openttddw.grf is corrupted or missing
08:06:34 * goodger would go to bed, but he's too intrigued by lordnokon
08:07:30 <goodger> specifically, how long will he take before deciding to read the readmefile
08:07:41 <dihedral> perhaps [com]buster has still got some popcorn?
08:07:54 <WhiteRhino> Now, do you say your name like "Wooley" or is it like "Wall" but with a funny-E?
08:08:48 <goodger> WhiteRhino: wolle is pronounced "vol", possibly with a short "a" ("volla"), it's german
08:09:15 <WhiteRhino> That's actually pretty nifty. I learn something every day.
08:09:18 <goodger> baumwolle meaning cotton... I learned this from my clothing labels
08:09:45 <WhiteRhino> Honestly, and I hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but the only German I learned as a kid came from Wolfenstein 3D. >.>
08:10:41 <goodger> WhiteRhino: I sat through two years of german lessons in secondary school. I think your exposure was slightly better for learning from
08:11:16 <goodger> I'm not old enough to have played W3D when it was considered "current"...
08:11:32 <WhiteRhino> How old are you? o.O
08:11:43 <dihedral> you dont ask girls that!
08:11:51 <WhiteRhino> Jesus wept, I feel like an old man now.
08:12:10 <goodger> I think I played it when I was 10
08:12:10 <dihedral> WhiteRhino, for that you do behave rather childish - so no need to get irate!
08:12:29 <WhiteRhino> I behave childishly? >.>
08:12:32 <goodger> WhiteRhino: I thought you were younger than me
08:12:34 <lordnokon> i've read the readme.txt file and like all other shit readme.txt tells me nothing more then i already worked out for myself
08:13:18 <goodger> hmm... my car's door seems to have frozen shut. I will have to use the de-icer on it to open it --- unfortunately the de-icer is inside the car
08:13:23 <dihedral> well - then you should know what you are looking for by now!
08:13:27 <dihedral> and what you need to do
08:13:33 <dihedral> and the rest of the info is on the wiki pages
08:13:42 <dihedral> and seriously - you are supposed to be a sys-admin
08:13:53 <goodger> dihedral: s/sysadmin/msce
08:14:03 <WhiteRhino> And I'm not really irate; I'm actually having a pretty good time right now.
08:15:04 <lordnokon> =dihedral system admin and games have nothing to do with each other,
08:15:59 <lordnokon> let me ask you this, can you setup a full redantend blade servers with clusertering and a SAN storage solution to replecated between two sites
08:16:41 <goodger> lordnokon: no, but you cannot determine what file to run, in a directory with one executable
08:17:27 <dihedral> lordnokon, i am in IT, i have a few years of sysadmin experience administrating linux systems, and i am in software development right now
08:18:00 <dihedral> and to me sysadmin mean, being able to read documentation, understanding it, finding out stuff for yourself, etc!
08:18:24 <dihedral> i mean - you are asking questions we get from 14 year olds
08:18:30 <goodger> "wikipedia --- a non-profit project" --- ha! bollocks
08:19:00 <lordnokon> this is a chat room right, where help is suppose to be given to people who do not know how to use everything. Correct!! then stop being so harsh on people.
08:19:23 <lordnokon> i just thought it would be easier to ask people who's been playing with this game for a long time on what to do.
08:19:28 <goodger> we aren't obliged to help, you know
08:19:41 <lordnokon> no get some stupid insualts from people like you
08:20:02 <goodger> we try to help, but it's infuriating being asked questions that are put into the readme file for the express purpose of stopping people from having to ask them
08:20:12 <lordnokon> goodger then shut your mouth then if you do not want to help
08:20:19 <goodger> therefore, if you refuse to read the readme file, you are open to ridicule
08:20:43 <WhiteRhino> Ohh dear. *ducks and covers*
08:21:01 <dihedral> lordnokon, bad choice of words if you are the one wanting something from people in this channel
08:21:28 <goodger> I was under the impression that even MSCEs were trained to read documentation before calling the support line
08:21:39 <lordnokon> no, i asked to be help, i read the readme file, and all you people are doing is kakking me out
08:22:15 <dihedral> you said 'yes' when i wondered if you could setup openttd
08:22:20 <dihedral> so you kinda asked for it
08:22:28 <dihedral> now - lets start windowsish for ya
08:22:49 <dihedral> extract the archive to it's own folder
08:23:05 <dihedral> (meaning there is nothing else in that folder but the stuff you extracted)
08:23:29 <dihedral> you read the read me, and find out what you require to run the game (some extra grf's)
08:23:43 <dihedral> and you also find out where you need to copy them to. (hint: the data folder)
08:23:59 <lordnokon> i did copy them to that folder
08:24:04 <dihedral> then you double click (with the left mouse button) on openttd.exe
08:24:12 <lordnokon> and once is started to launch the game i got a error
08:24:36 <dihedral> did you find the original game files?
08:24:58 <dihedral> i mean those files you are supposed to find on the TTD CD-Rom
08:25:38 <dihedral> and you do have an openttdw.grf too, right?
08:25:56 <lordnokon> in the orginal game folder or in program files
08:26:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14885 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: if settings minimum != 1 and 0-is-disabled is enabled, one could set the setting in-game to an out-of-valid-range value.
08:26:40 <lordnokon> in openttd file yes
08:26:59 <dihedral> it should be in the data folder iirc
08:28:14 <dihedral> lordnokon, now please give me an honest answer: did you ever play OpenTTD?
08:28:19 * goodger and WhiteRhino sit in the corner silently, smirking and trying not to giggle
08:28:24 <Rubidium> what does the readme say about the placement of openttdw.grf?
08:28:40 <Forked> are you still in need of popcorn?
08:28:45 <lordnokon> your openttdw.grf is corrupted or missing! the file was part of your installation
08:28:55 <goodger> Forked: not to so much an extent, but thanks for the offer
08:29:10 <Rubidium> or rather... what does the readme say about files installed with openttd?
08:29:12 <goodger> I have cornflakes now
08:30:57 <WhiteRhino> Wonder if Thief could work on this box I'm on with Windows ME.
08:31:51 <WhiteRhino> Yeah.. it's my mom's computer. Rather, the computer my dad put together for my mom so she would "stop screwing up his." Apparently she isn't so good at the whole Start->Shutdown proceedure and goes straight for the power button.
08:32:32 <goodger> ...but the power button should trigger an ACPI instruction that begins that same start->shutdown procedure
08:32:51 <goodger> does the machine predate ACPI? :S
08:33:22 <WhiteRhino> My family uses a sort of powerstrip with switchse for the different stuff plugged in. One for the modem, one for the speakers, etc. She would just flick the Master switch off and everything shuts down.
08:33:49 <WhiteRhino> Now personally I do the shutdown dealy and wait for everything to shut off on its own before I turn that off.
08:34:08 <dihedral> i have all my computer stuff connected to remote controlled power strips :-D
08:34:20 <dihedral> i just press a button on the remove to turn various stuff on or off
08:34:26 <WhiteRhino> The only electronics that she seems savvy with is a handheld Yahtzee game they got at a yard sale.
08:34:31 <goodger> my computer has been running continually for five days, and before that, there was a power cut
08:34:33 <dihedral> lights, computers, etc. :-)
08:34:41 <goodger> s/cut/outage/ [en_US]
08:35:16 <WhiteRhino> I can generally deduce what your fancy words might mean if someone in the US said them. ;)
08:35:52 <goodger> did you try explaining in graphic detail that the disk heads will grind themselves into the platters in a manner reminiscent of an airliner crashing into a city?
08:36:33 <WhiteRhino> My dad used to, and she'd even write herself notes on how to do stuff. Apparently she fell back into the habit of hitting the Master switch 'cus my dad was yelling like an angry gorilla the other night.
08:36:38 <goodger> with "yaaaooorm" noises and flailing of arms
08:36:57 <WhiteRhino> Just about expected him to start doing the diagonal simian-bash move with his arms and stuff on the junk in the room.
08:37:42 <WhiteRhino> *cough* Anyway, yeah, so... she hasn't used the computer again in quite a while since actually. That I know of, given my odd sleep habits.
08:38:29 <goodger> well, that will probably extend the life of your FAT32 filesystem by a while...
08:38:31 <WhiteRhino> How did we get on this..? Oh, right, Thief. Kinda hesitant to try installing it yet..
08:38:45 <dihedral> hehe - someone has gone awfully quiet
08:38:48 <goodger> though I'm surprised that the WinMe installation has survived this long
08:39:06 <WhiteRhino> Perhaps it's working and, like me, the little trains and cars have hypnotized him.
08:39:23 <goodger> have you reformatted and reinstalled it regularly, or has it managed to survive a whole decade?
08:39:37 <goodger> even windows XP can only last 30 months in my experience
08:39:59 <WhiteRhino> I'm actually not sure when they hooked this beast up. I only had to move back in about a week before Thanksgiving.
08:40:40 <goodger> *mutter* third thursday... week before... er...
08:41:21 <WhiteRhino> Oh, right. *cough* Thanksgiving is a holiday on the third Thursday of November. It's generally centered around a big meal involving turkey, mashed potatos and such. =D
08:41:45 <goodger> I'm just having trouble working out when you're talking about when you say "the week before thanksgiving 2008"
08:41:55 <WhiteRhino> *snickers* I had heard that people over on the other side of the map don't celebrate (and occasionally don't know) it.
08:42:09 <WhiteRhino> Ahh, right. So like... halfway through November, yeah.
08:42:21 <goodger> 96% of the world do not celebrate it AFAIK
08:42:43 <WhiteRhino> I'm not used to chatting with so many people who are not living in the US. It's kinda refreshing.
08:43:01 <goodger> just out of curiosity, did you get laid off due to the recession or do you enjoy the wallpaper in your parents' house?
08:43:16 <WhiteRhino> Closest I've come is when I stumbled on the Spanish server while playing Gunbound.
08:43:43 <WhiteRhino> Well.. I lived in Illinois for a little over a year before they got together a list of my faults and kicked me out.
08:43:55 <goodger> ah. inconsiderate of them
08:44:21 <goodger> well, virtually everyone in #openttd is from northern central europe, since this is the only place in the world with a decent rail network
08:44:28 <WhiteRhino> Yeah, but I can sort of see it from their side at times. I then lived with a friend in Vermont who - no word of a lie - kicked me out because I sometimes doze off while my mind is wandering and I'm watching TV and I start snoring.
08:45:38 <WhiteRhino> Yeah. Train stations and rails are pretty rare in most of the US that I've been to. I used to show up at a station an hour early to pick up a friend on his commute from work just so I could watch the trains go by.
08:46:10 <goodger> I can see the train station from my house, it goes all the way to london without stopping...
08:46:24 <goodger> well, it stops, but it doesn't terminate
08:46:35 <WhiteRhino> Nice. Ever considered hopping on a car and seeing if you can make it all the way there? =D
08:48:30 <goodger> no, unfortunately the new passengers are asked for their tickets within about twenty minutes [two stops] and the conductors change twice through the journey so they do a complete ticket check
08:48:34 <WhiteRhino> Or is that as weird a question as it looks when I reread it for myself? =P
08:49:18 <goodger> it's possible to do my daily commute without buying a ticket, however, as the conductors don't bother to check for tickets during this 8-mile period
08:49:25 <WhiteRhino> Ahh. Sometimes when freight was heading through the station I'd wait at, I'd get an urge to try and hop onto one of the cars that carried the big metal containers and see where it took me.
08:49:50 <goodger> however, instead of fare-dodging on the train, I drive in
08:50:16 <goodger> since fare-dodging is somewhat immoral and very illegal, and driving is cheaper than fares and much more convenient
08:50:41 <WhiteRhino> Oddly, as much as I love trains, the only time I've ever been on one was when I was a baby. All I have is a vague memory of the ceiling and lightly shaking and train sounds.
08:51:22 <WhiteRhino> My friends in Illinois used to say that someday we'd take a train into Chicago and hang out one night.. we never did.
08:52:03 <goodger> it varies greatly by country, but the ones around here are of two types: the ones that are two joined carriages with very loud diesel engines under the floor, and the ones that are nine carriages with _very_ loud diesel locomotives at each end
08:52:18 <goodger> the former is very uncomfortable, and the latter is very comfortable
08:52:55 <Rubidium> how hard can it be to board a train? :)
08:53:00 <goodger> unfortunately, the latter doesn't stop at my station, because the town is only 2700 people...
08:53:03 <Rubidium> even I could do it when I was in the US
08:53:33 <WhiteRhino> I dunno, but the freight ones only seemed like they were going like.... ten mph at most?
08:54:10 <Rubidium> I even took almost all modes of transportation when I was there, except motor cycles/scooters
08:54:26 <WhiteRhino> If you mean buying a ticket just to take a trip, then know that I'm currently broke and have absolutely nowhere I know of I'd like to go.
08:54:46 <Rubidium> the freight train I saw when driving a deteriorated part of the old Route 66 went much faster than that
08:55:28 <WhiteRhino> I think the one going by the station in IL was slowly accelerating after some hill, curve or other station.
08:55:59 <lordnokon> what was the hole point of this installation change
08:56:02 <goodger> the freight trains around here [china clay, very heavy] all move at about 20mph
08:56:21 <lordnokon> is there anything ill be able to pick up that changes??
08:56:40 <lordnokon> seeing that this is a update till the new patch get release
08:56:55 <WhiteRhino> Speaking of, I've been looking at stuff I can add into OpenTTD and the whole ECSVectors thing looks kinda interesting.
08:58:35 <WhiteRhino> Speaking of China Clay, I mean.. I think some sort of clay was mentioned in there..
08:58:46 <dihedral> lordnokon, i actually was hoping you could join my autonightly server for a test, but in the mean time.....
08:58:52 <dihedral> i dont think it's worth it :-P
08:59:22 <goodger> WhiteRhino: ah. you should come to cornwall. we have an entire range of small mountains composed entirely of china clay spoil
08:59:38 <goodger> and a matching set of lakes
08:59:39 <lordnokon> well i got it to work
08:59:58 <goodger> why the miners didn't just dump the spoil back in the holes I have no idea, but it looks very interesting
09:00:04 <lordnokon> im going through wiki to see what all of things things mean what you are referring to
09:01:26 <WhiteRhino> I get kinda fascinated with trains and such.. I used to love flying into Midway airport in Illinois because we'd fly over a big deep quarry or two before landing, and a railyard.
09:03:06 <goodger> going by train into london is cool, because the main station has fourteen platforms and a huge amount of tracks and sidings that you go past
09:03:33 <goodger> driving to london, on the other hand, is terrible, because of the M25 (look it up...)
09:03:36 <petern> which station do you end up at, waterloo?
09:04:25 <goodger> not sure where waterloo goes actually
09:04:44 <goodger> I know st pancreatic goes to the north and also does the eurostar
09:06:03 <petern> heh, which waterloo used to do
09:06:43 <goodger> WhiteRhino: as in "pancreatic cancer"; the station's actual name is st pancras
09:07:14 <WhiteRhino> Ahh. I was gonna say.. I'm not even sure what the pancreas does. =P People have probably told me in the past and I've forgotten.
09:07:30 <WhiteRhino> I really am pretty simple. o.o
09:07:50 <goodger> ah, waterloo does the southeast and southwest [excluding the southwest of the southwest]
09:08:47 <goodger> it's pretty ridiculous that south west trains have that name, because their services do not extend further southwest than exeter AFAIK
09:09:09 <petern> from the london-centric view, it's south west
09:09:09 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
09:09:15 <petern> cornwall is a separate country
09:09:21 <WhiteRhino> Yeah. Reminds me of how Southwest airlines will fly from Massachusetts (where I am now) to Illinois, but not from Illinois to Vermont.
09:10:32 <goodger> lordnokon: do not do that
09:10:50 <goodger> ...are southwest airlines aware of the locations of MA, IL and whatever-vermont's-two-letter-name-is? i.e. northwest?
09:11:01 <goodger> *northeast and great lakes
09:11:46 <WhiteRhino> VT. =) I would think so.. instead I had to take one flight to New York and then a short flight to Vermont. And some guy in New York told me to go to gate 1 when my flight was boarding in five minutes at gate 18. So I nearly missed it.
09:12:06 <WhiteRhino> At least the non-Southwest flights I had to take had TVs built into the back of the seats.
09:14:37 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
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09:16:11 <lordnokon> can anyone maybe tell me how to remove the second train of multiheaded train please
09:16:20 <dihedral> lordnokon, i dont want a dcc chat with you ;-)
09:16:45 <petern> you can't remove the second engine of a multihead train if it was built as one unit
09:17:30 <lordnokon> vlieg in jou moer in dan
09:19:33 <lordnokon> petern wasnt ment for you was for +dehedral
09:20:12 <goodger> heh, he's even using mirc! :D
09:20:48 <goodger> lordnokon: I don't think dihedral speaks dutch either
09:21:46 <lordnokon> its afrikaans big differents between that and dutch
09:22:11 <goodger> well, then, there's even less chance of him understanding you
09:25:09 <dihedral> i would actually assume that to be some unfriendly stuff - only reason i can imagine you not expressing yourself in the english language
09:26:18 <goodger> dihedral: from dutch, google translate says "fly nut than you" and "fliegen Mutter, als Sie"... :S
09:26:19 <lordnokon> i was thinking in afrikaans therefor i typed in afrikaans
09:26:43 <lordnokon> trust on google to give you the right answer
09:26:59 <lordnokon> like i said use differents between dutch and afrikaans
09:27:31 <dihedral> actually i aint gonna try to translate that - if you cannot say it in english i dont feel like it's worth me investing any effort :-P
09:27:44 <goodger> well, google doesn't know afrikaans
09:28:21 <lordnokon> uh wrong answer, it does support translation very well
09:28:55 <lordnokon> may i ask some more question or are you guys going to hang me
09:28:56 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
09:30:29 <goodger> "Languages available for translation: Arabic, Bulgarian, Catalan, Chinese, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Filipino, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hebrew, Hindi, Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Latvian, Lithuanian, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, Serbian, Slovak, Slovenian, Spanish, Swedish, Ukrainian and Vietnamese"
09:30:37 <dihedral> you can always ask lordnokon ;-)
09:30:51 <goodger> where in that list is afrikaans in your reality bubble?
09:30:52 <dihedral> asking if you can ask is rather something one should not ask about
09:31:09 <dihedral> goodger, google is available in many languages
09:31:30 <dihedral> erhaps that very language is just not there for the english version of the translator :-P
09:31:31 <lordnokon> ja but, im a bit gatvol for being taken the piss out for asking questions
09:31:48 <goodger> lordnokon: for asking _stupid_ questions
09:32:08 <petern> you asked a question, it got answered, and then you wrote something in a different language
09:32:16 <lordnokon> well i learned that very quick here
09:32:36 <lordnokon> ja but im not taking about that question petern
09:35:45 <goodger> still no snow here :( however, cloud has appeared, and the temperatures remain <0
09:36:23 <petern> euston, we have a problem...
09:36:47 <goodger> maybe some snow later...
09:37:08 <WhiteRhino> This is a fantastic sandwich but is probably horrible for me.
09:37:10 <goodger> ah, temperature is now 0
09:37:18 <goodger> WhiteRhino: list the ingredients?
09:37:50 <WhiteRhino> 1.75oz beerwurst sausage for beer, 2.0oz pasturized process cheese with jalapeno peppers, and a small handful of pepperoni slices.
09:38:18 <WhiteRhino> The two measured ingredients are the kind of little sausages and cheeses you find in those Christmas gift packages.
09:38:56 <goodger> ...yes, that sounds particularly unhealthy
09:39:14 <goodger> salt, fat, salt, flavour enhancers, fat, and salt
09:39:25 <WhiteRhino> Sliced up and stuffed in a torpedo roll. Tastey as hell, though.. but given that I'll likely be in bed in like an hour and a half, I'm in for some wild dreams.
09:40:07 <WhiteRhino> Last night I dreamed that me and a highschool bully (who had, in reality, died in Iraq) were students going to a college-version of Hogwart's.
09:40:55 <goodger> let's keep that between you, me, and the string of therapists who won't be able to help you
09:42:21 <goodger> temperature has ostensibly dropped to -1 again
09:44:48 <dihedral> did you not want to ask a question? i am bored and need some amusement
09:45:50 <lordnokon> still no ideas to why my income and costs does not display??
09:46:05 <petern> did you cheat the year?
09:46:20 <dihedral> petern, how should he - he would not know how :-P
09:46:45 <lordnokon> come move on allready
09:46:49 <WhiteRhino> It was odd, though, 'cus in reality the kid was kind of a jerk to me but in the dream he was like my best buddy. *shrug*
09:46:55 <petern> dihedral, cheating comes naturally to some...
09:46:55 * dihedral seriously starts wondering how he ever got all those MS certificates :-P
09:48:04 <WhiteRhino> I think he might also have been around the night I asked how a person keeps the year the year of their birth for fun. =P
09:48:34 <lordnokon> oh seriously guys some of you really need to grow up
09:49:04 <petern> if you won't answer i won't bother either
09:49:04 <WhiteRhino> Come on, it's playful ribbing and whatnot. =P
09:49:39 <dihedral> lordnokon, cheer up :-)
09:49:46 <dihedral> it's not like we hate you
09:50:05 <lordnokon> depends what country you are from
09:50:10 <dihedral> though if cages came in larger sizes, i'd hold you as a pet.....
09:53:29 <goodger> WhiteRhino: still, dreaming about going to hogwarts with an iraq victim? :s
09:54:38 <dihedral> lordnokon, it's your own fault - you should not have insulted me ;-)
09:54:45 <dihedral> not that i care that much
09:54:54 <Forked> welcome to the internet..
09:55:02 <dihedral> but if _you_ are the one wanting stuff from this channel, you should use a different attitude
09:55:03 <lordnokon> where did i insult you
09:55:09 <WhiteRhino> It's not that weird. It's not like he was wandering around like a zombie or anything..
09:55:24 <dihedral> WhiteRhino, you are worse than babyottd
09:55:48 <WhiteRhino> I mean, I suppose it's kind of weird. The plot of the dream eventually turned into me and him and a bunch of other room-mates. And, how am I worse than that now what? o.O
09:55:50 * goodger snorts orange squash onto his keyboard
09:56:13 * dihedral extends his ignore list and adds some huge white animal to it
09:56:46 <goodger> WhiteRhino: babyottd is a "learning" bot that attempts to construct sentences based on what it hears... and it is famous for nonsensical blather
09:57:10 <WhiteRhino> Oh. Aw... Now I'm on an ignore list. =/
09:57:39 <lordnokon> well if you werent a doos to me i would not of had to insult you
09:57:51 <WhiteRhino> ...Are you trying to say douche?
09:57:56 <dihedral> oh - so now you are aware of insulting me?
09:58:00 <goodger> dihedral: a) he's not being that insane at this time, b) you will now be maddened by watching only my side of a sentence
09:58:39 <WhiteRhino> Oh, wait, no, Doos is on the list.
09:59:04 <WhiteRhino> Dude, he totally called you a box.
09:59:39 <Forked> what happend here :\ so much hostility
10:00:16 <Forked> ah. so can we blame this on microsoft?
10:00:17 <lordnokon> Clearly the maturity is lacking from some of you people
10:00:22 <goodger> Forked: an MSCE entered and started asking stupid questions like "how do I install" and refusing to read the readme, and we've basically gone from there
10:00:45 <Rubidium> Forked: someone with (allegedly multiple) MS certifications not knowing what to do with a zip file and not knowing that it'd be wise to read the readme before asking whatever's answered in said readme
10:01:01 <Rubidium> but AFAIK lots of MS stuff comes in zips with readmes
10:01:40 <lordnokon> you people really need to get ova yourselfs
10:01:44 <petern> # DON'T YOU FUCKING KNOW WHAT YOU ARE
10:02:12 <dihedral> actually we don't :-)
10:02:32 <lordnokon> im not going on and on about the some old thing like a 5year kid
10:02:45 <WhiteRhino> Still sucks to be on an ignore list. Didn't know I was babbling that much.. >.>
10:03:03 <goodger> WhiteRhino: I don't think you were
10:03:22 <Forked> what is the point complaining about being on someones ignore list, if the person that is ignoring you can't see you complaining? It just increases the chance of more people adding you to their list :p
10:04:02 <goodger> WhiteRhino: well, that's interesting --- I think the choice is down to the inclination of the individual house paint retailer...
10:04:05 <Rubidium> and thus proving the effectiveness of the local ignore lists for getting ignored by the many
10:04:16 * petern has to attempt an upgrade on a live system with no down time... pom te pom
10:04:21 <WhiteRhino> You've got a point there. =P Sorry.
10:04:37 <Rubidium> what kind of system?
10:04:45 <Forked> Rubidium: maybe if there was a wizard with "Next" buttons we wouldn't be seeing this ;P
10:04:51 <goodger> petern: if it's running debian this should not be problematic...
10:05:13 <goodger> Forked: actually the windows default zipfile handler does include a wizard with "next" buttons
10:05:24 <goodger> petern: everything except the kernel can be upgraded in-place...
10:06:07 <petern> upgraded without a reboot certainly
10:06:27 <petern> most services with a few exceptions will be stopped, upgraded, and then restarted
10:06:29 <goodger> ah, I didn't think you meant _zero_ downtime...
10:06:40 <goodger> surely ten seconds is acceptable?
10:06:59 <goodger> otherwise tell your employer it's not technically feasible
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10:11:44 <goodger> ...and I think the old version is uninstalled and the new one installed, and then the service is stopped and started...
10:12:25 <goodger> if the old version fails to upgrade, or uninstalls but does not reinstall, you still have a working server, unless you stopped it before doing all that
10:12:49 <petern> depends on the service
10:13:13 <petern> although i admit, i've only been using debian for 9 years :/
10:15:18 <goodger> I've been using it since 2007...
10:17:01 <goodger> I was on ubuntu before then, and got annoyed with the hideous bugs
10:18:00 <goodger> I like to think I learn quickly ^_^
10:24:56 <WhiteRhino> I hope it gets light soon so I can bring the trash out. x.x
10:25:30 <dihedral> lordnokon, what do you do all day in sysadmin?
10:25:42 <dihedral> any nice little windows boxes to snuggle up to?
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10:29:48 <WhiteRhino> Bah. Gotta get offline so the school can potentially call my mom to let her know not to come in. See you guys tomorrow.
10:31:20 <goodger> ...he was on dialup? :S
10:33:02 <petern> Liberation Mono is nice :D
10:33:16 <goodger> better than courier new at least
10:33:28 <goodger> god knows why microsoft decided to make courier new so *thin*
10:33:44 <petern> My 0s and Os and 1s and ls are totally different...
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10:59:32 <dyzdyz> can anyone help me in compiling openttd?
11:00:07 <dyzdyz> or maybe shom me some other way to have openttd with features i need?
11:00:41 <dyzdyz> i need ottd with cargodest, copy&paste and yapp
11:01:02 <Rubidium> copypaste & yapp don't work together
11:01:13 <dyzdyz> i've got BuildOTTD, but it crashes...
11:01:38 <dyzdyz> ok, so let's try to build with cargodest+copypaste
11:01:59 <Rubidium> yapp's already in cargodest
11:02:30 <dihedral> why do people so desperately want copy&paste?
11:02:55 <dyzdyz> i don't need copypaste "desperately"
11:03:25 <Aali> < frosch123> the best part of the game is to press ctrl-v and paste the finished network over the landscape :p
11:04:26 <Aali> funny thing is, I have always had copy&paste in my build
11:04:39 <Aali> and I have *never* found a use for it
11:06:23 <dyzdyz> ok, i know the website of cargodest, but this build dos net have copypaste
11:06:48 <dyzdyz> Aali: i find copypaste very useful on large maps
11:07:07 <Rubidium> for a win64 build you need MSVC 2005 or 2008 Professional (express only makes 32 bits builds)
11:07:52 <dyzdyz> Rubidium: is there any other (smaller) compiler?
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11:08:07 <Rubidium> yes, but that doesn't make 64 bits build
11:08:59 <dyzdyz> Aali: i don't like repeating same actions
11:09:13 <dyzdyz> like building small ro-ro near every industry
11:09:41 <goodger> Aali: if you've built a large and complex station then it's pointless to choose to duplicate that station once per town...
11:10:02 <Aali> all of my stations/junctions are either 1. too small to make copy&paste worth it or 2. too big to make copy&paste work
11:10:39 <dyzdyz> perhaps you build small ro-ro much faster than i do :-)
11:10:39 <petern> when i play it evolves... c&p does not fit in
11:10:54 <Aali> if I've built a large and complex station it's not going to fit anywhere and I'd rather just build another one that doesn't look the same
11:12:07 <dyzdyz> Rubidium: I think i'll choose some smaller compiler and 32bit openttd...
11:13:03 <dihedral> aye - look at any countries train stations - they all look different :-P
11:13:07 <Rubidium> mingw/cygwin should work, dev-c++ probably not (not tested for many years)
11:13:55 <dihedral> + if you always paste stuff from previous games, or download templates from others, you'll never build stuff faster, nor will you learn how to improve
11:14:25 <dihedral> + it's a pain up the but on network games
11:14:34 <dihedral> esp. if people start pasting with a high speed
11:14:52 <dihedral> i personally wish there was a decent way of blocking that kind of stuff on the server side!
11:15:38 <petern> a normal client will send very few commands
11:15:40 <dyzdyz> dihedral: i agree, but i usually play alone or with my workmates, we all accept pasting
11:16:02 <petern> so a configurable cmd rate limiter would do...
11:16:36 <petern> with perhaps an exception list
11:16:57 <Zahl> then somebody will come up with a slow paster ;)
11:17:07 <petern> Zahl, yeah, but it will be slow...
11:17:23 <Zahl> you can start pasting some station and while its being build you can do something else
11:17:38 <Aali> you can already configure the paste speed in the current copy&paste patch
11:17:48 <Zahl> look for new industries..
11:19:11 <Aali> for extra extra fun, make a server patch that buys land whenever it detects a paster
11:19:38 <Zahl> or changes the owner of random parts of the pasted stuff
11:19:55 <Aali> then you'd have to patch the client too
11:20:30 <dihedral> petern, paste rate is client side
11:20:43 <dihedral> i.e. sending the DoCommands to the server
11:20:48 <dyzdyz> Rubidium: installing cygwin
11:20:54 <Aali> if the client does not agree with the server, you'll get a desync
11:21:13 <dihedral> could there be a 'ranking' of how many DoCommands a single client could have in the queu following eachother for x clients connected?
11:21:27 <Zahl> the server gets a build cmd from some player but executes it as if it came from another. works...
11:21:37 <dihedral> there is a server side patch, for c&p, however, it can easily be overwridden
11:21:53 <Zahl> at least it did like 2 years ago when i did something similar
11:22:00 <petern> if it can be overridden it's not a very good rate limiter
11:22:25 <dihedral> it's merely sending the rate setting from the server to the client
11:22:37 <dihedral> you can patch your client to not read that packet and it's all fine again
11:22:54 <petern> no, a server side rate limiter actually has to do the limiting itself...
11:23:10 <dihedral> set the paste speed to 1 and paste the biggest thingy possible - all other players will have issues building!
11:23:27 <dihedral> petern, yep, i was just talking about the one that currently exists
11:23:32 <petern> rate limited per client, obviously
11:23:41 <Aali> Zahl: ah, yes, good point, that would actually work
11:24:49 <dihedral> a general doCommand limiter would be nice, where one clients doCommands have _active_clients space between, and DoCommands from other clients can be slipped in between
11:25:28 <dihedral> i.e. a more dynamic queue
11:32:18 <dyzdyz> ok, got cygwin, got source...
11:32:30 <dyzdyz> now how to apply a copypaste patch?
11:33:48 <dihedral> you cannot just apply copy&paste
11:33:58 <dihedral> not to cargodest and not to current trunk
11:34:02 <dihedral> it's way out of date
11:34:13 <dihedral> and cargodest is too modified for the patch to succeed either
11:34:25 <dihedral> (i mean the c&p patch is way out of date)
11:34:35 <dyzdyz> so there's no way to have cargodest and copypaste together?
11:34:50 <dihedral> you just need to take the time and code a bit
11:35:06 <dihedral> and while you are at it, get it to work with yapp
11:35:11 <dyzdyz> you mean i have to program it for myself :-) ?
11:35:43 <dihedral> not entirely + you have a good working* example
11:35:50 <dihedral> * working a few thousand rev's ago
11:39:58 <Aali> there is a new c&p patch that applies to current trunk and supports yapp but it is of questionable quality
11:40:13 <Aali> and it still won't apply cleanly to cargodest AFAIK
11:41:11 <dyzdyz> so, assuming i'm not a C/C++ programmer, don't have few hours to spend... there is no way to get cargodest and copypaste working?
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11:55:55 <TrueBrain> (still morning in UTC ;))
11:56:11 <[com]buster> thought not in your timezone?
11:56:52 <TrueBrain> I just saw a train which is heading your way
11:57:00 <TrueBrain> so no, I don't live in UTC :p
11:59:49 <TrueBrain> weird clouds in the sky
12:00:10 <TrueBrain> they carry somethng heavy ...
12:07:43 <dihedral> good morning TrueBrain
12:10:52 <goodger> dihedral: afternoon now :P
12:11:29 <goodger> "good morning, sir, good afternoon, ma'am... it passed noon while I was speaking, so that was... technically... accurate. mwahay!"
12:21:55 <TrueBrain> New SCrubs rules!!!!
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12:54:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14886 /trunk/src/lang/ (afrikaans.txt icelandic.txt):
12:54:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: remove (3) strings with non-UTF8 characters in Afrikaans.
12:54:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: using non-ASCII characters in Afrikaans and Icelandic when there's an equivalent ASCII character, thus not needing a font to display all characters.
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13:08:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14887 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_abstractlist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: reverse iterator implementation from MS doesn't like the way we use it
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13:25:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14888 /trunk/config.lib: -Change/Fix: don't make makedepend look in whatever's included for headers; it takes ages *and* it will not find all headers anyways as they are placed in locations where only the compiler can easily find them
13:26:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14889 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Codechange: replace some magic numbers with constants.
13:31:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14890 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Codechange: move the notest information into the command table.
13:37:08 <petern> you could've done some of r14886 with src/table/unicode.h ;)
13:37:51 <petern> or was that the wrong direction... i can't remember now
13:38:02 <petern> i only wrote the stuff after all
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13:39:57 <Rubidium> petern: „ and “ are MS Word's 'rewrite' of a "; as the language uses both forms, why not stay with the simplest?
13:42:50 <glx> that's just stupid as it breaks formulas
13:44:55 <TrueBrain> Excel sucks anyway ... copy paste something like 2008-12-12 in it, which happens to be a combination code ... it makes it a datestamp .. still fine by me .. then you tell it to convert it back to a normal string, and it gives you a number! Fuck Excel ... :p
13:46:01 <petern> yet another sdl_mixer patch, although this one is horrible
13:46:05 <petern> (mine was at least clean, iirc)
13:46:15 <TrueBrain> are there non-horrible ones? :)
13:46:38 <petern> TrueBrain, mine used the driver system to properly add sdl_mixer as a new driver
13:47:08 <TrueBrain> that is the least you can do, yes :)
13:47:32 <petern> this does implement a sdl_mixer driver
13:48:08 <petern> the sdl_mixer sound stuff is hacked into sound.cpp, not even the sdl audio driver...
13:48:36 <petern> "Panning and volume are not implemented
13:48:44 <petern> one of the easier things to do in sdl_mixer...
13:49:11 <petern> it can *only* use data/sounds/xx.wav instead of sample.cat
13:49:17 <TrueBrain> petern: so do it better! :)
13:49:32 <TrueBrain> so make that trunk-ready :p
13:49:36 <petern> but no commitage, obviously
13:50:36 <TrueBrain> like most of your stuff ;) :p :p
13:50:41 <TrueBrain> you should finish those things :)
13:50:56 <petern> bah, who wants newgrf customisable railtypes anyway?
13:51:00 <TrueBrain> you always have things ready when someone else makes something .. but you never commit it :)
13:51:03 <TrueBrain> trunk is your friend ;)
13:51:19 * Yexo would like customisable railtypes :)
13:51:33 <TrueBrain> and an othe rpatch going into the freezer ... :p
13:51:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14891 /branches/noai/ (82 files in 8 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14840:14890
13:52:15 <petern> TrueBrain, it was synced the other day
13:52:47 <TrueBrain> why not finish it? :)
13:56:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14892 /branches/noai/ (Makefile.src.in config.lib): [NoAI] -Add (r14891): also add the Squirrel Source Dir as Include for makedepend
13:56:50 <Belugas> newrails! newrails! newrails! newrails! newrails!
13:57:33 <petern> TrueBrain, been busy doing other things
13:57:41 <petern> walking dogs, playing zombie games, and being lazy
13:57:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14893 /branches/noai/config.lib: [NoAI] -Fix (r14892): I fucked up
13:57:47 <petern> not necessarily in that order
13:57:50 <TrueBrain> zombie games .. left4dead .. hmm ...
13:57:56 <petern> most likely in reverse order
13:58:11 <petern> that only has infected, allegedul
13:58:33 <TrueBrain> I am out, going to my parents, getting a few dancing lessons ..... be back tonight :)
13:58:43 <TrueBrain> petern: I expect railtypes to be commited by then ;) :p :p :p (just kidding my friend :))
13:59:05 <petern> what is a SDTBOOL stored as?
13:59:24 <petern> can i convert it to an SDTVAR?
14:00:03 <petern> or do i need to drop the old value to a var and use that to set the new var?
14:00:29 <petern> argh, it's snowing again
14:01:09 <Rubidium> petern: it's stored as a uint8
14:01:51 <Rubidium> so you can (without savegame change) change a bool to a uint8
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14:08:22 <Belugas> snopwing in here too. Expected 30 cm for the next 2 days
14:11:01 <Rubidium> poor Belugas... but no worries... there's snow here too and when I step in the fresh snow it leaves an footprint of over a foot long ;)
14:12:10 <canidae> if you want snow, we got about a meter of it here. please, take as much as you want, preferably all of it ^^
14:15:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14894 /branches/noai/src/squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r14878): MSVC performance warning
14:15:43 <Rubidium> the topic says English not American, right?
14:16:27 <canidae> i'll probably have some typos, then. more influenced by american english than british english
14:16:40 <Rubidium> oh and the English are not driving at the right side of the road
14:17:13 <canidae> i'm quite far from being american if that's your fears =)
14:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> when i say "meter" i am not influenced by american, i am influenced by german
14:17:47 <Belugas> canidae, i've got quite enough already, thanks ;) Quebec does have an history of piles and piles of snaw
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14:17:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and as a language educated german, i can't help but pronouncing "metre" as french
14:19:30 <canidae> beside, i'm trying to convert the world to a more binary language. not easy getting followers, though
14:22:01 <Rubidium> nah, ambiguity makes nice discussions ;)
14:29:08 <Belugas> and nice commit messages too ;)
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14:39:00 <Belugas> or you lack exercise ;)
14:41:07 <Rubidium> he just likes his tea very strong
14:45:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14895 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Change: move CMD_NO_WATER from all DoCommandPs to the command table
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14:58:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14896 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Codechange: remove an unused constant and the related dead code.
15:00:34 <petern> colleague just brought his 5 day old daughter in
15:02:25 <Belugas> going to play dada with her?
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15:19:21 <joachim> does the reliability affect the chance of the plane crashing?
15:21:04 <Aali> a broken down plane runs a greater risk of crashing
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15:27:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14897 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
15:27:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: don't allow a few command flags to be sent over the network as it's
15:27:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bogus information anyway; e.g. the "do not send over network" flag as it will be
15:27:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: set whenever the command is received from the server/client.
15:27:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: test earlier whether the command (send from the server) is actually valid.
15:31:33 <insulfrog> hmm, what features that hasn't been released do you dream about in OpenTTD. I dream about diagonal bridges/tunnels :p
15:31:34 <petern> /home/petern/ottd/svn/trunk3/src/network/network_data.cpp:37: error: ‘CMD_FLAG_MASK’ was not declared in this scope
15:34:47 <Rubidium> hmm... might be ccache interfering :(
15:36:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14898 /trunk/src/network/network_data.cpp: -Fix (r14897): ccache's caching seems to be a bit too agressive or so.
15:38:02 <joachim> insulfrog: and signals and junctions in/on them :)
15:42:37 <petern> yes, sure, but that doesn't help coding them efficiently
15:42:52 <Lakie> Heh, as the developers said, keep dreaming or try coding (an acceptable) implimentation of them.
15:42:56 <glx> and don't forget drawind sprites :)
15:43:12 <Lakie> This has been suggested a hell of a lot, even before OpenTTD.
15:43:38 <insulfrog> well, I do know how to program in C++ but I never actually put it into practice (I learned it at college)
15:44:04 <Yexo> How can you claim to know how to program without putting it in practice?
15:44:25 <Lakie> There is a distint difference.
15:44:27 <insulfrog> well, i did but only in assignments
15:44:42 <insulfrog> but never 'commercially'
15:45:01 <insulfrog> if you know what I mean
15:45:55 <Yexo> diagonal bridges would certainly be a nice challenge
15:46:55 <insulfrog> but its goight to take alot of skill to put it into openttd
15:47:09 <Lakie> Though, I'd suggest starting with something similar to get used to programming in C++ again...
15:47:29 <Lakie> And then a lot of time looking at how OpenTTD works to workout how to add it.
15:49:12 <insulfrog> its knowing what to make and do and how creative you are :)
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15:55:42 <Bennythen00b> Ok, so now you dont want to talk to me?...
15:56:10 <insulfrog> A recent post I've read is the 'underwater tunnels' feature, its good but its a shame that you can't terra 'below' sea level (on land of course :p ) and dig a tunnel under the sea (e.g. channel tunnel).
15:57:22 <Bennythen00b> You mean without the patch?
16:02:55 <Belugas> [10:50] <insulfrog> its knowing what to make and do and how creative you are :) <--- let see how creative you can be :)
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16:11:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14899 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
16:11:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: remove the window limit, but leave a configurable limit on the number of non-sticky non-vital windows.
16:11:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2499]: crashes/misbehaviours when (almost) all windows are stickied.
16:12:09 <petern> comments on my patch? did i miss anything like a free or something? :o
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16:14:11 <Rubidium> -b bla -b booh -b 32bpp-simple will probably leak
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16:17:51 <Belugas> i'd insert a line between each if (!StrIsEmpty...) block at the end of the patch
16:21:01 <Belugas> i dunno about the rest, to be honesty
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16:28:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14900 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_bridge.cpp ai_bridge.hpp): [NoAI] -Add: support for aqueducts building
16:37:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14901 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: support for oneway roads building (Yexo)
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16:48:05 <Forked> someone should make a joke about the MSCE, RHCE and CCNP guys that went into a bar and said something to someone about something :\
16:48:16 <Forked> sorta like the priest and the rabbi(sp?)
16:48:25 * FauxFaux hasn't even heard of CCNP.
16:48:46 <FauxFaux> Cisco Certified Wire Monkey.
16:51:28 <canidae> FauxFaux: hmm... your nick was familiar... musicbrainz?
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16:58:52 <Belugas> N and Y are not the same
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17:40:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14902 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: Advanced setting to keep various building tools active, which are usually closed after placing an object. (planetmaker)
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17:42:27 <Aali> persistant building tools is in trunk? :O
17:42:53 <frosch123> no, persistent building tools
17:42:57 <Belugas> go to sleep, you're just dreaming
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17:44:26 <Aali> now we just need quick goto and it wont be a pain in the ass to play unpatched \o/
17:45:01 <Tim> Not to forget something to auto-seperate trains using timetables :D
17:45:17 <Aali> dont really care about timetables
17:45:24 <Tim> But thanks for this new feature, anyways :)
17:45:43 <Belugas> fuck you're depressing
17:46:06 <frosch123> [18:47] <Tim> Not to forget something to auto-seperate trains using timetables :D <- not to forget 31 flyspray tasks
17:46:50 <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by rubidium :: r14827 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2009-01-04 14:51:49 UTC)
17:46:51 <DorpsGek> glx: -Feature [FS#1984]: few (optional) optimisations to making (initial) orders (sulai)
17:47:41 <Aali> Belugas was right, I must be dreaming
17:48:05 <glx> this commit is quick goto
17:50:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14903 /trunk/src/ (articulated_vehicles.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Fix: First create all articulated parts of roadvehicles, then call callback 36 capacity, also call it for all articulated parts.
17:51:16 <Tim> Wow, quick go-to also included, now we can play even faster *g* Thanks!
17:51:36 <DorpsGek> Tim: Commit by michi_cc :: r14852 /trunk/src (settings.cpp train_cmd.cpp) (2009-01-05 20:29:05 UTC)
17:51:37 <DorpsGek> Tim: -Feature: Automatic reversing in front of block signals can now be disabled by setting pf.wait_oneway_signal respectively pf.wait_twoway_signal to 255.
17:52:19 <Tim> There really should be a topic in the forums to keep track of latest (for the normal user interesting) changes in trunk!
17:55:08 <Rubidium> Tim: there used to be a wiki page, but well... it got outdated
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18:00:11 <Tim> From which trunk revision was 0.6.0 split from? Or was it split with the first beta?
18:02:41 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by rubidium :: r12395 branches/0.6/ (2008-03-22 19:48:14 UTC)
18:02:42 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: [0.6] -Branch: the long awaited branch so we can introduce new features in trunk before 0.6.0, but not let them destabalize the pending release :)
18:05:00 <Zuu> Tim: Now that you have got informed, you could make an unofficial notice about these new things on the forums :)
18:05:06 * insulfrog has to go so cyas :)
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18:07:33 <Zuu> I like to take my time and send a big thank to Rubidium who has made a huge number of commits the last days. In addition a few others have made some commits also not to forgot. But still one name has stood out the last days - Rubidium :-)
18:08:34 <frosch123> you can also start collecting disliked christmas presents to donate them on r15000
18:09:43 <Zuu> like wool socks that are to small for my feet?
18:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> <Tim> There really should be a topic in the forums to keep track of latest (for the normal user interesting) changes in trunk! <- start by "svn log -r12395:HEAD | grep Feature"
18:12:22 <Eddi|zuHause> <glx> this commit is quick goto <- apparently, it was cryptic enough ;)
18:12:32 <Tim> And where do i use "svn log -r12395:HEAD | grep Feature"? :)
18:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> on your svn checkout?
18:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> in your favourite console?
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18:13:45 <Tim> Yey, my favourite console... This is where the fun starts Oo
18:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> WinXP, believe it or not, comes with a console built in
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18:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it's called "cmd"
18:15:03 <Zuu> Do you have TortoiseSVN (with resavation for spelling)
18:15:13 <Tim> Yes, i know that one *g* I even know some commands :D
18:15:19 <Tim> And that i installed once...
18:15:34 <Tim> But... Well... It's all a bit confusing, you know?
18:16:58 <Zuu> I got quite quick used to Tortoise, though I misunderstood how to apply patches. The window showing the patches changed because i moved the mouse, but I first though it changed because it was processing the patch :p
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18:22:32 <Zuu> hmm, users ... updating of #openttdcoop GRF pack has been broken for several weeks in my updater program, but not a single user has complained, and I noticed it first today.
18:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> users never complain
18:27:45 <Zuu> Belugas: What noughty plan do you have for the users now? ;)
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18:29:55 <frosch123> Zuu: users only complain when it is their fault that it is not working
18:30:09 <Belugas> [13:25] <Eddi|zuHause> users never complain <--- reaction to ... some... welll.. that
18:31:14 <Belugas> the only plan i have so fare is just reviing my newobjects thinguy
18:31:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: well, the only other option is that you have less users than you think you have :p
18:32:28 <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: Hehe yea, could be that too. :p
18:34:35 <Tim> When are the nightlys being compiled again? 20:00 german time?
18:35:15 <Zuu> 19:30 UTC if I remember correctly, but I could be wrong...
18:36:34 * Zuu waits for beeing corrected by someone with better knowledge :D
18:37:14 <frosch123> they start at 20:00 amsterdam local time
18:37:27 <frosch123> and are finished 25 minutes later
18:37:57 <Tim> Okay... So approximately one hour from now till they are finished :)
18:38:10 <Tim> I want to test the new features :)
18:38:14 <frosch123> but it can also fail :p
18:39:37 <Tim> I already have such a bunch of prgrams i never use on my laptop...
18:39:55 <Tim> And i can wait for one more hour :)
18:39:56 <Zuu> Installing VS2005 and all needed only takes 2-3 hours. and then you can complie when you like to have the latest.
18:40:02 <Rubidium> when you're anxious to know when the compile's done and the binaries are on the website, join #openttd.notice
18:40:34 <Tim> Here comes a popular question: Any guess on how much longer it will take for CargoDest to hit trunk? :)
18:40:44 <Zuu> So kind of push version of finger then :)
18:41:53 <Zuu> finger.openttd.org for those who don't know it yet.
18:43:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Tim: at the current rate, converges asymptotically towards infinity
18:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: missing closing single quote: is that your 's'?
18:44:23 <Rubidium> Wolf01: I'd say it isn't, but then it's only a guess
18:45:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14904 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-07 18:44:43
18:45:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 19 fixed, 6 changed by arnaullv (25)
18:45:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 3 fixed by beruic (3)
18:45:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 15 fixed by UltimateSephiroth (15)
18:45:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 4 fixed by glx (4)
18:45:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 15 fixed by fanioz (12), rindu (3)
18:45:31 <petern> Wolf01, that's a name, not a nick...
18:48:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "Matthias" is a very common name in germany, i suspect this to be not much different in the netherlands
18:49:25 <blathijs> Wolf01: Nope, I don't have a lot of video games :-) (Also, my name is spelled "Matthijs" instead of "Matthijis", but I presume that's a typo on the page)
18:50:33 <Tim> Hehe, some commits are really fun to read: -Add: OpenTTDs version to openttd.cfg, just so we do not need to keep to ask people for their version number because it's likely they give you the wrong answer anyway.
18:50:56 <blathijs> Yeah, users are fun :-p
18:51:59 <Aali> alot of people just say "latest" when you ask them which version they're using, and 80% of the time, they're running 0.6.3 :)
18:52:26 <glx> we also store if they changed grf ingame
18:52:39 <Tim> Latest (*verysmallletters:* stable)
18:56:22 <Tim> Eddi|zuHause: Tim: at the current rate, converges asymptotically towards infinity ---> Why is that? Makes a very stable impression to me already :)
18:57:22 <Eddi|zuHause> why can't people mark quotes properly?
18:57:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you always start reading a sentence, and end up wondering "wtf? i read that already"
18:57:59 <Tim> How do you do that in IRC?
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18:58:29 <Eddi|zuHause> people invented special quote characters for that
18:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> they look like this: "
18:58:50 <Eddi|zuHause> one at the beginning, and one at the end of the quote
18:58:53 <Tim> Quote: "Eddi|zuHause: Tim: at the current rate, converges asymptotically towards infinity" --> Why is that? Makes a very stable impression to me already :)
18:58:56 <petern> just don't bother quoting
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18:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause> alternatively, for IRC, it is common to enclose the quoted nick in <.>, and then start with their line
18:59:34 <glx> <petern> just don't bother quoting <-- or use proper nick displaying :)
18:59:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14905 /trunk/src/ (viewport.cpp window.cpp window_gui.h): -Fix (r14899): in some corner cases already freed memory could be read.
19:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause> in email or forum threads, it is also common to prefix quoted lines with >
19:00:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so many ways to quote...
19:00:24 <petern> Eddi|zuHause: or you can do this, which is the most common...
19:03:01 <Wolf01> enable colours and we'll start to quote in different colors and backgrounds
19:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> colours are insane...
19:03:27 <Tim> What a weird world... If Israel attacks Palastina everyone's like "Well, let's talk about it...", but if Russia stops delivering Gas, everyone's like "Deliver us our Gas or there'll be serious consequences!" ...
19:04:29 <Wolf01> that's not our gas, it's their, if they don't want to seel it they are free to do
19:05:05 <Rubidium> Tim: if a roommate gets shot it's terrible, but when someone far away shoots someone it goes by without emotion
19:05:54 <Rubidium> same happens here... the gas issue really "hurts" you, what they do in the middle east is well... far away and it doesn't "hurt" you
19:06:12 <Rubidium> in Israel they couldn't care less about the gas issue
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19:19:49 <Wolf01> today I coded a fully new feature for the software I'm working on... it took me about 5 hours :O
19:20:19 <welshdragon> Wolf01 what coding language?
19:21:02 <Wolf01> do you assure me to don't laugh?
19:22:09 <Eddi|zuHause> there is honestly nothing funny about that
19:23:13 <FauxFaux> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
19:23:41 <FauxFaux> (Company I work at dropped Acess support just before I joined, there's still references in the code)
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21:00:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14906 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_road.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (rone-of-the-latest-but-I-am-lazy): GCC warning (mostly this reads: MSVC warning, but ... oh well :))
21:02:36 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
21:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the truth is... programs are either trivial or buggy
21:03:37 <Belugas> the truth is... out there
21:04:44 <TrueBrain> let me tell you, in the wohle country here there is snow ... but not where I live
21:04:49 <TrueBrain> I go to my parents: snow
21:04:54 <Rubidium> yes Belugas, it's cold and snowy in Hell
21:04:54 <TrueBrain> I talk to people more east: snow
21:05:09 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: talk to people on Vlieland or so
21:05:27 <TrueBrain> not too many people there :p
21:05:31 <TrueBrain> let alone I know people there
21:05:35 <TrueBrain> well, inf act I do .. but not that well :p
21:05:48 <TrueBrain> here, even glx has snow! :(
21:05:49 <glx> even in Marseille there's snow
21:06:04 <glx> they didn't have any since 1987
21:06:06 <Rubidium> on Vlieland the temp was above freezing at it's lowest point last night
21:06:34 <TrueBrain> well .. I am next to Vlietland, but it is colder here ;) (hehe, Vlietland .. Vlieland .. :p)
21:07:48 <Belugas> there is snow at my dealer'
21:07:59 <Belugas> sniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiif
21:08:07 <TrueBrain> not everything that is white is snow Belugas ..
21:08:20 <TrueBrain> don't eat yellow snow :)
21:08:21 <Rubidium> and not all snow is white
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21:12:27 <edeca> TrueBrain: But it tastes so nice
21:16:07 <petern> bah, she has not replied to me for ages :/
21:19:31 <petern> no, someone via friendsreunited
21:19:40 <TrueBrain> I like thatone Belugas :)
21:19:47 <TrueBrain> his 'snow' dealer :)
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21:51:28 <TrueBrain> and I have nothing real to eat :(
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21:52:24 <thingwath> I have no beer. :-/
21:52:31 <TrueBrain> De_Ghosty: please join, or leave ... pfff
21:52:40 <TrueBrain> Tim: I don't think they bring pizzas at 2300
21:52:47 <GoneWacko> ah damn, I was going to buy beer today but forgot.
21:52:56 <GoneWacko> Sheesh, thanks for reminding me *after* the shops close.
21:54:34 <TrueBrain> running out of beer
21:54:37 <TrueBrain> what kind of person are you!
21:54:48 <TrueBrain> then your friend calls, can I come for a drink, and you can't say yes
21:57:22 <thingwath> nobody would come here
22:00:24 <SmatZ> so you don't have any friends you know about :)
22:00:28 <thingwath> at this time, it's easier for me to visit them, than vice versa
22:00:37 <thingwath> this place is so ugly
22:09:50 <TrueBrain> I found apizza in my freezer
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22:16:38 <petern> /dev/md/3 428G 12G 395G 3% /home
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22:18:00 <petern> "Imma tard but if I dl something then don't want it anymore, can I delete it from my harddrive and free up that space for something else??"
22:18:25 <TrueBrain> you should keep it FOR EVER!
22:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i never throw anything away
22:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i have only 60 youtube clips stored...
22:24:46 <TrueBrain> I never have enough room for that :p
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22:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can i "dump" a python session to the disk, and completely restore it later? (not using pickle, as that is not enough
22:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> (the python instance uses up 1,6GB of memory)
22:31:17 <TrueBrain> this pizza tastes good!
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22:34:35 <TinoDidriksen> There's been experiments with freezing a process to disk and thawing it later, even on different hardware (as long as the arch and libraries are the same)...but not sure there's any practical tools for it yet, asides from a full hibernate cycle.
22:35:04 <TrueBrain> and works very well
22:35:06 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: let gdb make a core dump of it and load that?
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22:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: what are the incantations for that?
22:37:38 <TinoDidriksen> Do you want it to survive a reboot, or just want it out of the way for a while? 'cause if the latter, you could simply suspend the process and reduce it's priority to let it get swapped out.
22:37:48 <FauxFaux> Yeah, I've used the freezy thing before, it occasionally works, unless your app is complex, like top.
22:38:12 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no idea, check `man gdb` I'd say
22:38:44 <Eddi|zuHause> TinoDidriksen: both, i'd say
22:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i have this huge pile of data, which i want to "harvest" in steps, which could take multiple days, and stuff might go wrong, so i want to make like a "snapshot" that i could roll back to
22:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't have the time to lay out a proper database model and conversion functions
22:40:53 <TrueBrain> so push out the data via yaml
22:40:57 <TrueBrain> inefficient, but works
22:41:24 <TrueBrain> a Python export type
22:44:03 <glx> hmm no it's the other kind of acronym
22:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if it doesn't get the job done in 5 minutes, it's not the right thing for me
22:45:19 <Eddi|zuHause> right now at least
22:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i need a really quick and really dirty solution
22:45:35 <TrueBrain> I don't think even a direct dump could get that done in 5 minutes :)
22:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean 5 minutes of programming time
22:45:45 <TinoDidriksen> "print" is the quick and dirty solution.
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22:45:53 <TrueBrain> yaml is like print :)
22:45:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and reading up on how to program it
22:46:08 <TrueBrain> (it just serializes python structures)
22:46:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that pyyaml page does not tell me anthing
22:46:56 <TrueBrain> one moment .. where did I use it ...
22:47:34 <TrueBrain> input = open("tvrage.yaml", "r")
22:47:34 <TrueBrain> config = yaml.load(input.read())
22:48:03 <TrueBrain> data = yaml.dump(config, indent = 2, default_flow_style = False)
22:48:15 <TrueBrain> config is a random Python object
22:48:37 <Belugas> [17:17] <petern> 400GB of HD NIN video <- ho - menoum menoum menoum menoum
22:48:49 <TrueBrain> dirty, not sure if it works for you :)
22:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> how does that behave with recursive objects, modifications of class variables, and stuff?
22:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the second point is why pickle is not enough
22:49:38 <TrueBrain> damn, I meet this lovely girl today ...
22:49:59 <Belugas> girl, pickle... dirty
22:50:39 <TinoDidriksen> Is the data processed in a stream, or is it all one big interdependent structure?
22:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the data is... complicated...
22:51:22 <Eddi|zuHause> mostly tree structures
22:51:31 <petern> Belugas: downloading the victoria bc gig
22:51:41 <Belugas> all lascively intertwined...
22:52:04 <TrueBrain> damn, can't get her out of my head .. how annoying :)
22:52:21 <Eddi|zuHause> <Belugas> all lascively intertwined... <-- err... yes, that's probably an appropriate description :p
22:53:52 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what about a VM (like VirtualBox) and make a snapshot whenever you need one?
22:55:12 <TinoDidriksen> So there's no point you can say "done with this part, write, discard, next"...?
22:58:06 <TrueBrain> I maybe should be doing something useful ...
22:59:47 <TrueBrain> yeah ... big portion I did in the last 2 days
22:59:52 <TrueBrain> no threads, yeah :)
23:00:09 <TrueBrain> now I 'only' need to commit the cleanup patches
23:00:27 <TrueBrain> which I need to port, as they are not compatible :(
23:02:33 <Sacro> sigh, this is quite challenging
23:02:42 <Sacro> how to go around london quickly and efficiently
23:03:04 <TrueBrain> maybe I should just play the game a bit :p
23:03:32 <TrueBrain> petern: then he can't enter for the next N years
23:03:32 <Rubidium> Sacro: by helicopter
23:03:41 <petern> TrueBrain: how is that a problem?
23:04:53 <Rubidium> petern: then there can't be a Christmas Doctor Who special attack on London?
23:04:54 <TrueBrain> also, why waste all those good buildings
23:05:12 <Rubidium> and that piece of overvalued carbon ;)
23:05:50 <Rubidium> that's the major right?
23:06:19 <Rubidium> oh no... he's basically the boss of the major ;)
23:07:07 <thingwath> Major Major Major Major
23:07:13 <petern> boris is the mayor, heh
23:07:41 <Rubidium> mayor major... sounds the same
23:07:58 <TrueBrain> one is big, the other is an ass
23:08:01 <TrueBrain> yeah, all the same :)
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23:11:17 <WhiteRhino> Goood evening party people.
23:11:27 <Rubidium> heh... both are boss of something, both has bosses, both get paid by the government
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23:14:12 <WhiteRhino> Gah! Plane crashed already.. I think the airport was too small.
23:14:40 <WhiteRhino> It's a Commuter airport and I'm flying Bakewell Luckett LB80s in and out of it.
23:18:32 <Eddi|zuHause> do english speaking cultures know the concept of "student food"? ("Studentenfutter" in german is a mix of nuts and raisins)
23:19:12 <Eddi|zuHause> (although it's usually too expensive for the average student to buy it)
23:19:51 <Rubidium> Dutch have it, but that's more a side note than an answer
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23:25:57 <TrueBrain> darn .. I Started to build monorail, but there are no vehicles available for it :p
23:26:23 <WhiteRhino> How does that happen? o.o
23:27:34 <TrueBrain> and a bunch of newgrfs
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23:28:58 <WhiteRhino> Okay, maybe that kind of plane is too big for that airport. I just lost a second of my three.
23:30:26 <WhiteRhino> How do you know which planes are small enough for the small airports?
23:30:38 <WhiteRhino> Gah! There goes the last one.
23:31:43 <Nite_Owl> Look at the wiki for which airports are what sizes and the planes should say on the purchase window if they are large or small
23:32:14 <WhiteRhino> Doesn't say it on my build window right now..
23:32:45 <Nite_Owl> Hmmm - I might be thinking of a newgrf then
23:33:09 <WhiteRhino> I need that one. And to learn how to make less traffic-jammy rails.
23:33:43 <WhiteRhino> It's all fun until my trains are making -$15 a year.
23:33:53 <Nite_Owl> AV8 is the plane grf I use
23:34:53 <TrueBrain> I should learn how to make efficient PBS blocks ... :p
23:35:42 <WhiteRhino> Balls. I had the right company of plane, but one release too late. The LB-9 is small, the LB80 is big.
23:39:44 <WhiteRhino> Seems like there comes a time in the game where a critical mass is reached where you build less and just manage/upkeep what you currently have.
23:47:19 <WhiteRhino> Sweet, I'm worth 91mil.
23:48:27 <Prof_Frink> WhiteRhino: Coverage follows a sigmoid curve.
23:48:39 <Prof_Frink> Small at the start, 'cause you have no money
23:49:05 <Prof_Frink> Fast as your network expands and you have plenty of cash
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23:49:26 <TrueBrain> damn, I really suck in making a nice network :(
23:49:31 <Prof_Frink> Then slow again as the only things left are too small and far away to bother with
23:50:56 <WhiteRhino> But then wouldn't it be good to use an older style of vehicle or the fast cars? For the small far away stuff.
23:51:07 <WhiteRhino> Or just fast trains but short ones.
23:51:30 <Prof_Frink> fast, cheap-running
23:57:38 <WhiteRhino> Ooh, Tubular Steel is available now.
23:59:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the cool thing about cargodest is that you can more easily build scalable networks
continue to next day ⏵
