IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-06
⏴ go to previous day
00:01:50 <WhiteRhino> Converting all my normal track to electric..
00:02:47 <Eddi|zuHause> takes not more than 5 mouse clicks and one keypress
00:05:39 <WhiteRhino> Also converting trains: one was 27 years old with a max life of 21 years.
00:08:37 <WhiteRhino> That would have renewed it as the same engine, though, right?
00:12:08 <Wolf01> autoreplace do replace immediately at the first service, if you plan to use the vehicles for long time use autorenew and set autoreplace when you need to convert all your vehicles or a specific group
00:13:38 <Belugas> kittens will eventually grow big, like tigers!
00:14:15 <WhiteRhino> Almost two mil in new vehicles this year. Oy.
00:15:35 <Aali> if only I had two mil to spend on new vehicles..
00:22:50 <WhiteRhino> I just sold five steel cars and accidentally bought four wood cars and wondered why they weren't moving steel.
00:26:26 * SpearmintRhino chases the other rhino
00:27:12 <WhiteRhino> Gah! *hides in a tree*
00:28:21 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: belugas * r14855 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Documentation: Apply some widget naming to the widget arrays. Based on Yorick's work
00:33:21 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
00:34:16 <TrueBrain> I am getting a bit over-rhino'd here ..
00:34:43 <Rubidium> there's one easily solution for that
00:34:58 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: what are you doing up so late? :p
00:36:22 <Rubidium> being not able to sleep
00:36:39 * TrueBrain gives Rubidium a warm glass of milk
00:37:20 <Quaver> any germans awake in here?
00:37:24 <Rubidium> does receiving that milk require me getting out of bed?
00:37:28 <Quaver> have a bit of an odd question
00:38:02 <Woet> glx, could I pm you for a minute?
00:38:06 <Rubidium> Quaver: only when Eddi's home ;)
00:38:19 <Woet> nothing regarding support
00:38:42 <SpearmintRhino> Quaver: it's Eddi|zuHause that you want
00:38:53 <Quaver> SpearmintRhino: ... i'm not sure i like your new name as much as the old one
00:39:07 <SpearmintRhino> Quaver: pfft, i happen to find it amusing
00:39:07 <Quaver> Eddi|zuHause: don't suppose you're around are ya? ;)
00:39:34 <TrueBrain> Quaver: try it in english ;)
00:41:04 <SpearmintRhino> Quaver: not sure where he is, not like him to have left
00:42:07 <TrueBrain> - cflags_makedep="` echo "$CFLAGS" | sed 's~ /~ -~g'`"
00:42:07 <TrueBrain> + cflags_makedep="` echo "$CFLAGS" | sed 's~ /~ -~g'` -I\$(LANG_OBJS_DIR)"
00:42:18 <TrueBrain> that fixes a few Makedepend 'notfounds' (table/strings.h)
00:43:05 *** SpearmintRhino was kicked by DorpsGek (get your nick back Sacro :))
00:43:47 <frosch123> sacro always looked liked sirkoz
00:43:58 <glx> too bad he still doesn't have auto rejoin
00:44:22 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: doesn't look bad to me
00:45:00 <glx> still it won't find system headers
00:45:11 <TrueBrain> no, that is a problem of makedepend in general
00:45:18 <Belugas> sacro is better than sirkoz, if you ask me...
00:45:18 <TrueBrain> it also shouldn't worry about those in my opinion ..
00:45:22 <TrueBrain> the changes of those changing ...
00:46:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: ah, found it is a change at the wrong place :)
00:48:17 <glx> you should really enable rejoin on kick :)
00:48:36 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14856 /trunk/Makefile.src.in: -Fix: allow 'makedepend' to find header files in the lang-obj-dir
00:48:56 <Sacro> glx: what irssi script is that?
00:49:02 <Sacro> i think i have irssi-scripts installed
00:49:59 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the occasion?
00:50:08 <TrueBrain> glx: don't give him ideas :(
00:50:39 <glx> TrueBrain: it's funnier to be able to kick him twice in row
00:50:49 *** Sacro was kicked by DorpsGek (requested)
00:51:01 <TrueBrain> now that is a failure :)
00:51:49 *** welshdragon was kicked by DorpsGek (as requested)
00:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> @neverkick TrueBrain
00:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause> @praise dev-team
00:52:52 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
00:53:07 <Aali> @all glory to the hypnotoad
00:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of which... wasn't there supposed to be a third futurama movie?
00:53:39 <SmatZ> lol @ [01:50:50] *** Sacro has been kicked from the channel by DorpsGek (requested).
00:53:56 <KenjiE20> third futurama movie? <- Bender's Big Game
00:54:10 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't that the second?
00:54:19 <KenjiE20> nope, Billion Backs was 2nd
00:54:34 <Eddi|zuHause> which was the first then?
00:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... titles too similar...
00:55:14 <KenjiE20> yea, just ever so slightly confusing
00:55:21 <Sacro> Quaver: Eddi|zuHause is back :p
00:56:26 <KenjiE20> looks like there'll be a fourth too \o/
00:56:30 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14857 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/squirrel_export.awk: [NoAI] -Add: don't export functions which start with a _
00:57:19 <welshdragon> i blame you lot for the fact i have the futurama theme song in my head
00:57:35 <KenjiE20> movie or tv version?
00:57:53 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a difference?
00:58:05 <KenjiE20> yeah, the movie is slightly longer and has fancy effects
00:59:19 <TrueBrain> conclusion, nothing else
00:59:52 <KenjiE20> pffft, I like me geek / freakness
01:00:13 * Eddi|zuHause concludes KenjiE20 is the kind of geek that cracks the alien code in the beginning of the show before the show stops airing
01:00:40 <KenjiE20> don't think I've cracked any of them
01:01:26 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14858 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [Squirrel] -Add: allow 'throwing' an error to resume the VM, and allow resuming from that state
01:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently, there were those instances
01:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... one too many instances of "resume"
01:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause> possible causes: 1st "resume" should actually say "suspend"
01:03:50 <Sacro> Quaver: swannington has a level crossing, as does coalville D:
01:03:54 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: shit happens
01:05:19 <Sacro> Quaver: only a disused line though, not much uses it
01:05:25 <Sacro> hmm, swadlincote has sidings
01:07:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14859 /branches/noai/ (18 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange (or so I hope): introduce a callback system in such way that the NoAI Framework no longer demands threads to work correctly (but for now it is still used)
01:07:44 <Quaver> Sacro: its just freight now, iirc
01:09:08 <WhiteRhino> Ooh, it's almost my in-game birthday.
01:09:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you were born in-game?
01:09:31 <WhiteRhino> I meant my birthday, but in-game time.
01:09:45 <SmatZ> I loved when it happened in TTD
01:10:00 <SmatZ> I have several savegames (from different games) from that date :)
01:10:26 <frosch123> were you born in a train? and are wondering which?
01:10:38 <SmatZ> no, I am just strange :)
01:10:53 <SmatZ> I also thought there will be monorails everywhere after 2000
01:11:11 <SmatZ> but there are still regular rails being built
01:11:31 <WhiteRhino> The reason I'm sitting on $23mil right now is because I love watching my trains go around.
01:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the cost of conversion is way too little in the game
01:11:56 <SmatZ> not talking about UFO:Enemy Unknown, or movie Demolition man... they were so wrong about their expectations :)
01:12:14 <WhiteRhino> *gasp* X-Com: Ufo Defense? >.>
01:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> especially the difference between purchasing land early and purchasing land late in the game is not modelled right
01:13:24 <frosch123> "13 monkeys" was nice
01:13:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the profit vs. running costs is also way off
01:13:55 <Eddi|zuHause> a big railway company should make only marginal profit
01:14:09 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: don't start talking about realism :) for more realistic running costs, you may use GRF sets
01:14:24 <Eddi|zuHause> grfs don't help with the general model
01:14:26 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14860 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_controller.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix r14859: I just wanted revision 14860 to be mine
01:14:35 <WhiteRhino> Been wasting $10k a year because I forgot to convert two tunnels to electric.
01:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the running costs are still constant, so having 100 lines will give you 100 times the profit
01:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the only thing that running costs change is the duration of the early game
01:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> before you earn so much money that you can't spend it anymore
01:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> earning money should get _more_ difficult the more vehicles you have
01:16:50 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14861 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.nut src/ai/api/ai_object.cpp): [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: set the default roadtype to INVALID. Set it yourself, or you won't be able to build any road-stuff!! (using AIRoad.SetCurrentRoadType()) (Yexo)
01:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i had a proposition about running costs being multiplied with a factor depending on vehicle count in the forum recently
01:18:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: 64x64 does not really fit my playing style
01:18:12 <WhiteRhino> Yeaaah, that's the one. The UFO dealy.
01:18:57 <Aali> but it does limit your abilities to make more money simply by setting up more routes
01:19:15 <Aali> as long as there's more cargo to transport, why shouldn't you be able to make more money?
01:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: but that is not what i meant.
01:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: the idea behind this is, the bigger your network, the higher your management overhead
01:20:01 <Eddi|zuHause> this is absolutely not modeled in the game right now
01:20:25 <Aali> that shouldn't affect running costs though
01:20:38 <JdGordon> if you disable the electric rails, do you still get the electric trains? or is the elctric rails ore than just looks
01:20:40 <Aali> paying maintenance for your infrastructure would be awesome though
01:20:45 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the running cost factor was an idea to model that
01:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> infrastructure maintenance is also not what i mean, because that would also be "constant"
01:21:18 <Aali> JdGordon: electric rails are more than just eyecandy
01:21:34 <Aali> electric engines wont run without catenary
01:22:26 <WhiteRhino> It's sad when the only good thing on TV is Antiques Roadshow.
01:22:34 <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: it doesn't make much sense to punish players for using alot of vehicles though
01:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> JdGordon: disabling electric rails makes it behave like the old game, so electrified trains exist, but they run on non-electrified tracks
01:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: yes, it does, it's called "game balance"
01:23:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't make sense to have players with more money than they can spend
01:24:12 *** WhiteRhinoPSO has joined #openttd
01:24:23 <JdGordon> seems there are no electirc trains on the desert landscape anyway
01:24:32 <Aali> sure, you can make waay too much money waay too easily in ottd
01:24:33 <WhiteRhinoPSO> By the way, the rookie in that UFO screenshot is either gonna be dead really fast or lucky with a rapidfire. =P
01:24:40 <Yexo> JdGordon: if you disable electric rails the electric trains will run on normal rail
01:24:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
01:25:02 <glx> there never was electric engines in desert
01:25:12 <Aali> but still, if you have alot of vehicles running good routes, why would they make less money than your upstart competitors'?
01:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> JdGordon: there are newgrf sets for desert, which have electric trains
01:25:50 <glx> Aali: more trains => more running costs
01:28:29 <Aali> sure but running costs per-vehicle should not increase just because you have alot of vehicles
01:28:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: let's assume that 1 vehicle can be managed by 1 train crew
01:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> 2 vehicles then need 2 train crews, and one manager
01:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> 4 vehicles need 4 train crews, 2 managers that manage 2 vehicles each, and one manager managing the 2 managers
01:29:48 <Aali> sure, you can charge for that, but it should not end up as running cost
01:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the more vehicles you get, the more levels of management you need
01:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you end up with a tree structure of managers
01:30:08 <JdGordon> you'll go broke quickly with that management level
01:31:44 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: that is still a linear cost. For every n trains (assuming n = 2**x), you need n-1 managers
01:31:46 <thingwath> that makes having more than some 2^small n vehicles impossible :-)
01:31:57 *** WhiteRhinoPSO is now known as WhiteRhino
01:32:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yes, but a higher level manager gets more money than a lower level manager
01:32:25 <Eddi|zuHause> if you assume that each level higher gets twice the amount of money
01:32:27 <Yexo> ah, now we are getting somewhere :)
01:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you end up with a n^2 cost
01:33:03 <WhiteRhino> I hate trees in the temperate maps. I can't tell what's what unless I bring up the little map screen.
01:33:18 <Aali> that will place a limit on how many vehicles you can possibly have before it all comes tumbling down under the weight of all those managers and you just can't make more money
01:33:26 <JdGordon> except it make sense that it would get cheaper per train to run the more you have because you're management levels and services are utilized more fully
01:33:29 <Eddi|zuHause> n^2 is of course very much, so it should be more like n^1.5 or something
01:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> values can be tweaked
01:33:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: welcome to bureaucracy
01:34:10 <Aali> WhiteRhino: transparency settings, hide trees (unless you're using 0.6.3, in which case you're screwed)
01:34:17 <JdGordon> with only 1 train it should be very expensivce to run... but once you start getting a dozen or more then everything is working at full speed/efficiency and its cheaper per train overall
01:34:26 <WhiteRhino> I already have them transparent, but there's so freaking many they still blot out everything but the farms.
01:34:37 <Aali> i must have missed the genre change from transport tycoon from bureaucracy tycoon
01:34:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: there is a reason why big companies start to "outsource" their minor branches
01:34:47 <Yexo> in 0.6.3 there is an option to make transparant trees invisible iirc
01:35:14 <Yexo> yep, under "interface", enable "Invisble trees"
01:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> wrench icon -> configure patches -> interface
01:36:49 <Yexo> it's under "configure patches", under the "interface" tab
01:37:21 <WhiteRhino> Great googa-mooga. It's beautiful.
01:37:57 <thingwath> It looks ugly without the trees :-/
01:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> there is always the "x" key ;)
01:38:13 <thingwath> But with them, you can't see anything.
01:38:15 <WhiteRhino> Well, there are a lot of funky like... moss-piles everywhere.
01:41:09 <JdGordon> can industries be persuaded to supply more somehow? I've got copper ore mines dotted around the map with like 60 tonnes last month which isnt worth setting up a route for...
01:41:25 <Yexo> provide good transportation
01:41:42 <Yexo> or open the cheat window (ctrl+alt+c) and cheat to increase production
01:42:08 <SmatZ> 60%+ transported and 80%+ transported increases your chance of increasing production
01:42:22 <JdGordon> even when its so low to start with?
01:43:08 *** DephNet[Paul] has joined #openttd
01:43:34 <SmatZ> "It takes about 65 years to go from 100 to 2100 with bigger than 80% industry rating and about 130 years with a rating of 60-80%. "
01:45:00 <JdGordon> so its just a crazy amount of waiting
01:46:58 <Aali> mostly a crazy amount of doing other stuff
01:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i need a different rating mechanism
01:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> one that honours regular service instead of constant service
01:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. like a train every 30 days
01:49:00 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: if you have time, try to design realistic economy model, ideally with more difficulty levels - but it has to be enjoyable by players :)
01:49:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you do know you are talking to the person that has like the worst time management skills ever...
01:52:59 *** WhiteRhinoPSO has joined #openttd
01:54:39 *** DephNet[Paul] has joined #openttd
01:56:05 *** AngryRhino has joined #openttd
01:56:16 <AngryRhino> Hate my connection.
02:02:55 *** HttpErrors has joined #openttd
02:11:55 *** AngryRhino is now known as WhiteRhino
02:14:40 <Aali> brianettas standard is quite fun
02:16:08 <Aali> its still too easy to make boatloads of money though
02:17:38 *** HttpErr0r has joined #openttd
02:20:51 <Westie> Does anyone know if there is a reason that no competitors are generated in the current nightly? It has been a while since I tried a nightly - I even created an empty config file with no luck
02:22:13 <Aali> have double- and triplechecked your settings?
02:22:30 <Aali> i should really go to bed
02:22:57 *** AngryRhino has joined #openttd
02:23:49 <Westie> I created a blank openttd.cfg in the directory with the nightly located - after starting the program it populates the file. I would have thought the defaults would have worked. I have tried on both easy and medium difficulties. Just thought I'd ask before submitting a bug
02:24:53 <Aali> how long did you wait? they start at random
02:25:23 <Westie> I tried fast forward for 3 years (they are meant to start after 6 and 3 months - easy,medium)
02:25:56 <Westie> I also have a game just ticking by in the background - over 18 months and still no competitors
02:26:28 <Westie> thats why I asked - thought there might have been something I missed
02:26:36 <Aali> you're not playing a scenario or anything? you're sure the settings are right in-game?
02:27:04 <Aali> the main menu settings only affect new games
02:27:13 <Westie> yup they are good. Just created empty config, start game - then stated easy with default options - no changes made at all
02:27:57 <Aali> let me see if i can reproduce that
02:30:24 *** AngryRhino is now known as WhiteRhino
02:31:14 <Aali> thats a negative, after about a year i have an AI with some routes
02:32:31 <Westie> no config means it uses the one in your My documents (with windows) at least that is what the docs say. You need to create an empty openttd.cfg in the nightly directory
02:32:52 <Aali> no, really, no config file
02:33:00 <Aali> i dont have one in my home folder
02:34:55 <Aali> but i just ran the nightly without a config file (so it used default everything) and i have AI competitors
02:35:00 <Westie> I've deleted the one in my docs and I'll try again
02:35:10 <Westie> perhaps it is copying that to generate the new one?
02:36:16 <Aali> if there is a file called openttd.cfg in the same directory as the binary, it wont use the one from my docs or whatever
02:36:54 <WhiteRhino> ANd to think, I used to hate Goods.
02:41:17 <Westie> I can't work it out, I deleted all the config files I could find, and I still get no AIs
02:41:44 <Westie> something strange for me ... perhaps I'll reboot to linux and see if that helps
02:42:21 <Westie> everytime I start the nightly version, it creates a OpenTTD directory in MyDocuments, and puts a config file in there.
02:43:05 <Aali> shouldn't change anything
02:43:39 <Westie> I don't know what else to look at
02:46:19 *** Sir-Bob has joined #openttd
02:47:36 <Sacro> it shouldn't use my documents
02:47:41 <Sacro> that's not what it's there for
02:48:37 <Aali> Sacro: sure but you can't put anywhere else in the user directory or people wont find it
02:48:52 <Sacro> Aali: pfft, people are idiots
02:48:58 <Aali> i should stop typing now
02:59:00 <tokai> My Documents should be for user documents.. not random setting files
02:59:26 <tokai> also pisses me off on OSX where programs pollute the Documents folder
02:59:42 <tokai> i run a cron script which cleans it up constantly ;)
03:01:33 <SmatZ> OTTD working fine on MorphOS?
03:01:54 <tokai> didn't built for a while
03:02:02 <tokai> old versions work obviously... dunno about trunk
03:02:59 <SmatZ> it should still compile with gcc2.95
03:03:17 <tokai> usually it breaks on C++ stuff ;)
03:03:40 <tokai> (that's easy said.. the whole thing is C++'ified ;)
03:12:33 <WhiteRhino> What the... did one of my planes crash without me knowing?
03:14:55 <murr4y> bad bad message settings
03:16:40 <Westie> no luck under linux either :-(
03:17:05 <Westie> I will dig a little deeper
03:17:17 <WhiteRhino> Hrm. $23k per flight with my Yate Haugan jets.
03:18:49 <WhiteRhino> *gapes* Or $135k per flight for my Darwin 300.
03:19:43 <Moodles> on a 2048x2048 map, how long does it take the 1950's planes to go from one side of the map to te other?
03:20:05 <Aali> depends on planespeed setting
03:21:14 <Moodles> kinda explains why when i buy out companies, their planes arent making any money per year.. and take ages to go back to their depot so i can sell them
03:21:57 <WhiteRhino> I think I'm working a 1024/1024.
03:22:04 <WhiteRhino> And only using like half the map between flights.
03:22:25 <Aali> my transrapids make 100k per run
03:25:14 <WhiteRhino> My mail-only Darwiin 300 makes $400k a year so far.. that's pretty good I'd say. Not sure how well the three standard ones are gonna make in place of those two concorde-types.
03:30:43 <WhiteRhino> I take it when black smoke trails from a plane that's their version of breaking down?
03:31:37 <Aali> they smoke and fly slower 'til next landing (and service at depot), yes
03:33:01 *** Sir-Bob has joined #openttd
03:36:52 <WhiteRhino> 1991, save and quit.
03:47:48 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
03:52:16 <Sacro> we need a system for upgrading airports
03:56:27 <WhiteRhino> Wait until the planes are gone and dynamite?
03:58:32 <WhiteRhino> Upgrading airports seems synonymous with changing the size of a railroad station. Just be quick on the dynamite and rebuild buttons so you don't lose the station name and screw up people's orders.
03:59:20 <Sacro> but iwth a train station you can nuke in/out lines
03:59:29 <Sacro> with an airport you can't hold in a pattern
04:00:23 <WhiteRhino> I've never had so many planes taking off and landing that it became a problem. *shrug* I like to have two, maybe three airports and four or so successful flights and then I go back to trains.
04:03:41 <JdGordon> using planes is cheating!
04:14:05 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
05:47:26 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
05:53:42 *** evandar has joined #openttd
06:07:37 *** sigmund has joined #openttd
06:11:42 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
06:48:48 *** AngryRhino has joined #openttd
06:53:33 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
06:55:20 <gynter> hello, any ideas why my station transportation changes to accepts wood/no longer accepts in every 2 days past 1 year?
06:55:48 <AngryRhino> Is it possible the sawmill closed down?
06:56:11 <AngryRhino> How close is the station to the sawmill?
06:56:14 *** AngryRhino is now known as WhiteRhino
06:56:14 <gynter> same with gravel and brichworks (PBI and UK industries grf)
06:56:46 <WhiteRhino> Hrm. I'm not sure then.. might be part of one of the GRFs you have.
06:57:10 <gynter> k gona wait a year more, maybe enconomics thing
06:57:31 <WhiteRhino> Save before you fast-forward if you're planning to.
06:58:02 <WhiteRhino> SOme people can't play network stuff well. >.>
07:03:40 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
07:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> <gynter> same with gravel and brichworks (PBI and UK industries grf) <- PB Industries have stockpiles, so they cannot accept an unlimited amount of raw materials
07:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause> so when you are close to the acceptance limit, every time you deliver something, it goes beyond the stockpile, and stops accepting
07:05:16 <gynter> hmm, might be that problem, gona put more cargo vechiles then :P
07:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> then, when the industry produces, the stockpile drops, and accepts again
07:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you need a second saw mill, to deliver the spare wood
07:05:58 <gynter> gona build that then :P
07:06:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the industry will also say low, medium or high production level
07:06:40 <gynter> brickworks is near maximum
07:11:01 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
07:24:41 *** WhiteRhino has joined #openttd
07:32:23 <WhiteRhino> Every time I try to connect to a server game, after a few seconds I get "network disconnected."
07:32:39 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
07:32:50 <WhiteRhino> I can't even watch a game if I want to anymore.
07:39:20 <WhiteRhino> There it goes again.
07:42:42 <WhiteRhino> This is pissing me off.
07:44:12 <WhiteRhino> I dunno. I was able to play once the day after I downloaded OpenTTD, once for about half an hour the next day.. and every single other time I've tried to connect to play or to watch, it'll load the map, sit there a second or two, then bring me back to the menu.
07:44:15 *** Yeggstry has joined #openttd
07:53:30 <WhiteRhino> That multiplayer button is becoming the biggest freaking tease..
07:54:33 <Rubidium> WhiteRhino: it's really YOUR internet connection as many people can play OpenTTD without problems
07:55:04 <WhiteRhino> I know, I know... *grump* Just 'cus it's a problem on my end doesn't make me wish I could play it any less.
07:55:29 <Rubidium> and as long as nobody with some coding/network skill can reproduce it and fix it, we can't make it any better
07:56:07 <WhiteRhino> Allright, I'll clam up about it. =P I get to rambling sometimes.
07:57:47 <Forked> what does your ISP say?
07:59:22 <WhiteRhino> I haven't really talked to them. I have in the past for the occasional random cutting off it normally does and they claim it's nothing they're doing, just "noise on the line."
08:00:24 *** AngryRhino has joined #openttd
08:00:57 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
08:03:51 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
08:05:32 *** AngryRhino is now known as WhiteRhino
08:07:10 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
08:12:11 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
08:18:10 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
08:20:25 *** AngryRhino has joined #openttd
08:25:28 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
08:32:17 *** MrOxiMoron has joined #openttd
08:38:59 *** einKarl has joined #openttd
08:41:49 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
08:47:30 * dihedral has a day off today :-)
08:52:19 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
08:59:12 <mrfrenzy> pfft, we ha -22.9 sunday night ;)
09:00:14 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
09:11:56 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
09:24:01 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
09:24:51 <matias> mrfrenzy: here was just -10C
09:25:28 <matias> but my car didn't like it.. need to get a new accu
09:26:11 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
09:27:25 <matias> ah, sorry.. do not know the word.. "battery"
09:28:53 <mrfrenzy> it's a good idea to test one's battery at the end of summer ;)
09:29:08 <mrfrenzy> because it's usually the summer heat that kills them, then you get problems when it's cold
09:29:53 <matias> it loads on 1 ampere :)
09:30:32 <mrfrenzy> if the car didn't start your ammeter on the charger should hit max
09:30:53 <petern> simpler to fix than other problems...
09:31:31 <matias> unfortunately shops are closed today, but at least i can get the car running.. :)
09:33:50 <matias> hmm.. at least i learned how to play opentdd yesterday :)
09:34:25 <matias> i'm getting 600 000 profits now (1953)
09:35:02 <matias> ok, using pause while thinking
09:37:03 <matias> why ai is building 2 stations for each resource?
09:37:43 <matias> because it also builds 2 rail roads i don't think that its getting 2x profit..
09:39:45 <mrfrenzy> the "ai" just isn't very intelligent
09:40:17 <matias> yes, you can see it when it builds roads and railroads
09:42:13 <matias> you should teach efficient rail roads to ai :)
09:42:48 <mrfrenzy> more fun to play online with real people ;)
09:53:46 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
09:53:49 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
09:56:55 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
10:07:53 *** canidae has joined #openttd
10:09:30 <canidae> morning. is "min_players" supposed to work without much more magic than setting it, or am i missing something? i expected it to pause the game when there are less than min_players, although game is never paused (yes, dedicated server)
10:10:00 <canidae> (running last nightly)
10:15:51 <petern> min_players is broken currently
10:16:07 <petern> patch network.min_active_clients works
10:16:30 <canidae> ah, i couldn't find it in the bug tracker :)
10:16:38 <canidae> i assume that only cares about clients?
10:16:53 <petern> i don't know why it was renamed
10:16:57 <petern> active_clients == players
10:17:08 <petern> somebody thought players was ambiguous
10:18:32 <Rubidium> players were also what's not called companies... and then the question is: is it the amount of companies (players) or the amount of active clients (players)
10:19:43 <canidae> also, just curious; previous nightly appeared to segfault the game when clicking advanced settings. apparently latest nightly doesn't, but i didn't see anything about it in the changelog. is this correct?
10:20:06 <petern> you could at least have fixed the aliass
10:20:34 <petern> as it is every server will need to reset the setting because it would've been saved with the old name
10:21:36 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
10:22:08 <canidae> it won't show when searching as it's closed in flyspray?
10:22:32 <Rubidium> canidae: well... that happens when you search only the opened tasks
10:23:04 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14862 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix (r14421): min_players became min_active_clients, not min_clients
10:23:05 <canidae> heh... not used flyspray before, familiar with trackers that show every bug per default, regardless of state. although, i should've checked better :)
10:42:01 *** tom0004 has joined #openttd
10:46:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
10:56:59 *** lordnokon has joined #openttd
11:22:26 *** goodger has joined #openttd
11:37:56 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: good UTC morning to you too ;)
11:38:48 <enra> damn - i wish it was morning here :s
11:40:26 <TrueBrain> an UTC morning it is for all of us enra :)
11:42:04 <TrueBrain> I am making croissants :) Yeah!
11:42:06 <TrueBrain> I love those things :)
11:46:20 <dihedral> TrueBrain, got some for me too?
11:47:43 <dihedral> not even a wee bit from the end?
11:48:41 <TrueBrain> haha, for the last 2 days I have been busy transfering one domain from one register to the other
11:48:44 <TrueBrain> it finally succeeded
11:49:01 <TrueBrain> but at the ned I was awaiting approval of the losing registar, something I should be able to do, but I couldn't find anywhere
11:49:14 <TrueBrain> after a long while I get an email from OpenSRS allowing me to do so ... then you go to that website, and you read this:
11:49:58 <TrueBrain> "OpenSRS Reseller" blabla "completely invisible for your clients"
11:50:05 <TrueBrain> well .. not THAT invisible clearly :p Idiots ...
11:50:49 <TrueBrain> even worse, then you compare the prices they use, and the ones I have been paying at the losing registar ... almost 5 dollar a year of difference ...
11:52:25 <TrueBrain> (for the record, OpenSRS was NOT the name of my losing registar :p)
12:04:10 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
12:05:18 *** Monkeyman1 has joined #openttd
12:13:14 *** Fantasya has joined #openttd
12:23:03 *** EdVanChat has joined #openttd
12:56:16 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
13:00:39 *** Yeggstry has joined #openttd
13:04:18 <Fantasya> Holy crap. My internet owned :DDD
13:08:31 <petern> did anyone spot any problems with my rv speed patch?
13:08:42 *** Yeggstry has joined #openttd
13:09:58 <Rubidium> did anyone except some Japanese test it?
13:12:54 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14864 /branches/noai/ (16 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange: introduce a layer-in-between to avoid layer-breaking and move out code from the API to the AI-core (which makes much more sense)
13:13:18 <Rubidium> or at least one very similarly named and looking quite similar
13:13:23 <petern> but i only posted it here last night
13:13:46 <petern> how do you know what patches it's running?
13:15:05 <Rubidium> the *007.rar contains your patch
13:15:25 <Rubidium> hmm... or did I frack up?
13:15:41 <petern> think so, i don't see it here :)
13:16:02 <Rubidium> yeah, I did frack up
13:16:39 <Rubidium> firefox didn't show it in-browser, thus downloaded it and put it in temp where I extracted the rar at rougly the same time :(
13:16:59 <Rubidium> so... it's likely nobody tested it
13:17:13 <petern> but that's hardly conclusive
13:20:34 <TrueBrain> commit it, and in less than 6 hours you have a nice test-base
13:21:54 <Rubidium> the patch doesn't look obviously wrong though
13:22:25 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggs-work
13:23:34 <petern> trunk is often treated a bit too sacred ;)
13:26:20 <Rubidium> thus commit stuff that isn't obviously wrong, but don't commit stuff that's known wrong/bad/incorrect
13:27:38 <TrueBrain> seems like a plan ;)
13:29:08 <Rubidium> NoAI has a known issue with threading (IIRC)
13:31:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14865 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange: move the RegisterAPI to AIInstance (from AIController)
13:33:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14866 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp ai_instance.hpp ai_storage.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: add svn keywords and $Id$ tags to new files
13:55:57 <TrueBrain> hi Belugas :) :) :)
13:56:23 <Belugas> ho.. Mister Croissant cooker :)
13:57:46 <planetmaker> happy new year everyone! :)
13:58:04 <planetmaker> Reading through the last week's commits feels like another christmas present :)
13:58:08 <planetmaker> Two thumbs up! :)
14:06:44 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
14:11:41 * enra stabs his modem repeatedly with a blunt spork
14:21:26 <Belugas> and go buy a decent modem afterward ;)
14:30:06 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
14:38:01 <TrueBrain> qball: you know you can get 20 year of jailtime for handling an axe? :p
14:38:10 <TrueBrain> petern: so when can we expect the rv speed commit? :p
14:38:41 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
14:38:52 <petern> doing work @ work right now
14:39:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14867 /branches/noai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: make MSVC happy (stupid MSVC :()
14:39:15 <Digitalfox> A bit late I know, but Happy new year everyone :)
14:39:38 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: then why do you say it twice in a sentence?
14:39:56 <petern> Digitalfox, early, surely
14:40:12 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: sigh ................
14:40:15 <Digitalfox> Just finished my Just finished my Draughts game in C and it's report =0
14:40:24 *** insulfrog has joined #openttd
14:40:25 <Digitalfox> ops, double finished
14:40:58 <qball> TrueBrain: have so many identities
14:41:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14868 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_storage.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: MSVC doesn't understand mixing 'struct' and 'class' .............. (I am running out of words to describe MSVC)
14:41:07 <Digitalfox> I have to deliver the source code and a report how it was made
14:41:25 <petern> oh, "and its report", heh
14:42:20 <TrueBrain> haha, now I understand it too petern, tnx ;)
14:44:40 <Belugas> Digitalfox! Happy new Year to you too
14:45:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14869 /trunk/src/ (engine_type.h newgrf.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp):
14:45:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Feature: Allow road vehicles to move multiple steps in a tick (code based on
14:45:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: train movement code) and add support for RV prop 15. This gives RVs a maximum
14:45:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: speed of 318mph instead 79mph. This only implements higher speeds, not
14:45:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: 'realistic acceleration'.
14:46:18 <petern> oh shit, i didn't make it vague and ambiguous :p
14:48:42 *** Bennythen00b has joined #openttd
14:56:08 <glx> at least you said what it is nott
14:59:36 *** insulfrog has left #openttd
15:00:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14870 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: normal files in library dirs caused segfaults (found by Yexo)
15:01:11 <Belugas> what am i rejoicing for... idon't play :S
15:01:20 <Belugas> welll... happy for the others than :)
15:01:21 <Sacro> petern: is the new tractive effort in?
15:02:54 * Sacro will just look at the graphs then
15:07:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14871 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Backport (r14656): use S_ISREG(x) over 'x & S_IFREG' (tnx to the good memory of glx)
15:08:38 <Bennythen00b> Was that from a person or a bot?
15:09:03 <Bennythen00b> Why did it pop up?
15:09:04 <Rubidium> a person made a commit and a bot "picked it up"
15:09:52 <Belugas> not been there long enough he?
15:10:00 <petern> he's been here too long
15:10:19 <Bennythen00b> Another weird IRC channel.. :o
15:12:18 <dihedral> Bennythen00b, your nick really suits you!
15:12:29 <Bennythen00b> Thanks... I think.. :P
15:12:47 <Bennythen00b> And how do i pm people..? xD
15:13:10 <Bennythen00b> How do you know..?
15:13:26 <petern> because i'm guessing that nobody here would want a PM from you
15:13:36 <Bennythen00b> You sure....? ^^
15:13:45 <dihedral> if they want it, they will pm you!
15:13:54 <Bennythen00b> Am I hated here or something?....
15:14:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: glx * r14872 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r14871): do the same for S_IFDIR too
15:14:13 <dihedral> why do you look at things so negatively?
15:14:32 <qball> maybe one or two don't hate you
15:14:49 <Bennythen00b> Should I take that as a compliment?
15:14:50 <dihedral> if people wanted to sit in a personal conversation with eachother all the time they'd hardly hang out in an irc channel
15:15:20 <Bennythen00b> Hmm.. Good point.
15:16:49 <Bennythen00b> Hey, does trunk have cargo destinisations now!?
15:17:26 <Belugas> Unless you want to send that person money, of course...
15:17:29 <petern> [com]buster, cup of tea please
15:17:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14873 /branches/noai/src/company_cmd.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: don't send an event to a company which is dying .. but do it after the company really died. Avoids silly invalid memory access ;)
15:18:02 <[com]buster> peter: water's boiling: english tea blend or peach mango?
15:18:05 <Bennythen00b> Why does my stations say: xx passengers en-route from xxxx?
15:18:19 <petern> er... peach mango doesn't sound like proper tea, so english blend ;)
15:18:34 <Bennythen00b> Waait.. Ignore me, and I MEAN IT!!!!
15:18:36 <petern> Bennythen00b, because you've used transfer orders :D
15:18:44 <Rubidium> Bennythen00b: as you wish
15:19:01 <Bennythen00b> Stop pm'ing me...
15:19:06 <dihedral> Bennythen00b, i think most people here will happily fulfill your wish
15:19:12 <TrueBrain> @mode +q Bennythen00b
15:19:12 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +q Bennythen00b!*@*
15:19:33 <petern> heh, serverside ignores :D
15:19:35 <TrueBrain> or is that mean? :p
15:19:50 <TrueBrain> @mode -q Bennythen00b
15:19:50 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -q Bennythen00b!*@*
15:20:24 <TrueBrain> What is written with a 'h' ;)
15:20:42 <[com]buster> tea's ready, coming over? :)
15:21:04 <TrueBrain> [com]buster: your address again? :p
15:21:38 <dihedral> you surely dont have good english tea there do you?
15:21:52 <TrueBrain> oh, that is just 45 minutes
15:21:55 <TrueBrain> can your tea hold out that long?
15:21:56 <[com]buster> that's why I proposed peach-mango tea
15:22:13 <[com]buster> it'd be cold by then
15:22:29 <TrueBrain> peach-mango, MAAK ME GEK!
15:22:29 <[com]buster> and I have appointments later this afternoon :(
15:22:30 <dihedral> shove it into the microwave, TB will not notice :-P
15:23:11 * dihedral just realized the kid is quiet :-)
15:23:16 * qball give TrueBrain a kinder cola
15:23:33 <Bennythen00b> Shall I start talking again? :P
15:23:48 <[com]buster> go ahead, I still have the popcorn on the table
15:24:10 <Bennythen00b> Can I have some btw?
15:24:16 <dihedral> good job there are logs of this drivel - for the boring days :-D
15:24:37 <[com]buster> and no, you're today's performer
15:24:44 <[com]buster> you can't eat and entertain, no?
15:25:16 <dihedral> just be glad we dont live in the days where it was still allowed to throw rotten eggs and tomatoes :-)
15:25:22 <TrueBrain> never enough joking
15:25:31 <Bennythen00b> Who are you talkinng about?
15:25:44 <TrueBrain> and he is naive too :)
15:25:56 <[com]buster> I think someone missed the idea of grabbing popcorn...
15:26:13 * dihedral 'grabbes' something else
15:26:43 <[com]buster> error: can't lower terrain, Bennythen00b in the way
15:27:12 <Bennythen00b> <[com]buster> error: can't lower terrain, Bennythen00b in the way
15:28:04 <dihedral> why dont you go outside, and play hide
15:28:25 <Bennythen00b> But I have to make dinner now, so you will have some alone time :)
15:28:34 <Bennythen00b> Enjoy, and bye. ^^
15:28:43 *** Bennythen00b has left #openttd
15:28:49 <[com]buster> hey my popcorn isn't gone yet :(
15:29:06 *** evandar has joined #openttd
15:29:56 <dihedral> [com]buster, perhaps you'll get another chance
15:31:02 * [com]buster wonders why the resident bot was called "DorpsGek"
15:31:58 <TrueBrain> for exactly this reason ;)
15:32:37 <[com]buster> so that you could kick all the other madmen because you already have one?
15:33:23 <[com]buster> Hmm, why didn't I think of that the first time
15:36:38 *** Swallow has joined #openttd
15:38:01 <yorick> should I worry when able to understand commented brainfuck?
15:38:59 *** dsoxygen has joined #openttd
15:39:11 <TrueBrain> yorick: no, you should worry in general
15:42:48 <dsoxygen> im here to offer my help about translating
15:43:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14874 /branches/noai/src/ (10 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange: steal more code from AIController and give it to AIInstance, making the code even more sane (still a long way to go, don't worry ;))
15:43:38 <frosch123> "If you are interested in translating OpenTTD you should send an email with the language you want to translate and the username + password you would like to use to login to translator@openttd.org"
15:44:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14875 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_info_dummy.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r14874): people always tell you think AFTER you commit ..
15:44:17 <dsoxygen> no i wont translate the game because its already done
15:44:17 <dsoxygen> i will helt to translate your homepage and our wiki
15:44:52 * Sacro notes 2 spelling and 2 grammer mistakes already
15:45:53 * Aali notes Sacros spelling mistake
15:46:37 * Rubidium notes Aali's grammar mistake ;)
15:46:54 <dsoxygen> im sorry for this but i dont want translate in english my german is much better ;)
15:47:00 * qball puts a grammar alert out
15:47:21 <Aali> does that situation really require an apostrophe?
15:47:56 <Sacro> Aali: yes, if you wish to show belonging
15:48:20 <Aali> meh, english isn't my first language anyways :P
15:50:34 <Rubidium> dsoxygen: translating the wiki's tricky; lots of things constantly change and then your translation will be outdated with (almost) no way of telling you it got outdated. Furthermore I don't think you should translate the whole wiki as much of the information doesn't matter for users.
15:51:48 <dsoxygen> but some parts of it can be translatet
15:57:03 <lordnokon> why does the finances window not show any income of costs for each of the year
15:57:12 <lordnokon> but it does show your bank balance
15:58:41 <Aali> lordnokon: you've minimized the window
16:02:37 <Belugas> or you are using transfers!!!!
16:03:53 <Aali> i assumed he meant to say income OR costs, but yes, that is another possiblity
16:05:20 <Belugas> never assume with new nicks around ;)
16:06:00 <lordnokon> nope its not minimized
16:09:26 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
16:12:22 <Belugas> therefor, i might have spotted the problem, lordnokon :)
16:13:40 <Belugas> [11:03] <@Belugas> or you are using transfers!!!! <--- that
16:13:59 <frosch123> lordnokon: when a train arrives at a station is the income amount green or yellow?
16:15:50 <Belugas> then, a screenshot would be more usefull, at this point...
16:17:26 *** mortal` has joined #openttd
16:17:45 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
16:18:16 *** tom0004 has joined #openttd
16:18:21 <petern> another cup of tea would be useful :D
16:18:47 * qball passes petern a cup of earl grey tea
16:19:31 * Belugas extracts himself for that comfy chair and crawls to the coffee pot
16:19:53 <qball> clean off the funges while you are out of that chair
16:25:34 *** evandar has joined #openttd
16:28:25 * Belugas shakes his fungus over qball's head
16:37:34 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
16:54:03 <yorick> whoa...google chrome is quite fast :p
16:59:23 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
16:59:25 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
17:06:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
17:07:57 *** mortal` is now known as mortal
17:11:37 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
17:13:06 <frosch123> every fresh installation is fast :p
17:13:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14876 /trunk/src/pbs.cpp:
17:13:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2509] (r14849): Reserved path loop detection was broken for stations.
17:13:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: Don't set the test tile to the tile the very first iteration handles. Update the test tile instead in the loop.
17:19:41 *** Progman has joined #openttd
17:22:51 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
17:30:34 <Swallow> Does a function exist somewhere that can replace this:
17:30:46 <Swallow> if (IsTileType(t, MP_RAILWAY) || IsLevelCrossingTile(t) || IsRailwayStationTile(t) || (IsTileType(t, MP_TUNNELBRIDGE) && GetTunnelBridgeTransportType(t) == TRANSPORT_RAIL))
17:31:30 *** |Terkhen| has joined #openttd
17:35:16 <frosch123> GetTileTrackStatus ?
17:35:27 <frosch123> But it is a very expensive function
17:37:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14877 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
17:37:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [Squirrel] -Add: allow a 'suspend' value, which makes Resume/Call stop executing after 'suspend' opcodes (which you can resume later)
17:37:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [Squirrel] -Fix: resuming doesn't always mean inserting a result value on the stack
17:37:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14878 /branches/noai/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs):
17:37:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: move more code from AIController to AIInstance, which makes things even more sane
17:37:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: remove the need for threads (a result of all the latest commits)
17:37:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: insert result values in a sane matter
17:37:49 <TrueBrain> NoAI no longer needs threads :) :) :) (or rather: fibers)
17:37:52 <TrueBrain> what a happy day! :)
17:42:38 *** Digitalfox_ has joined #openttd
17:42:46 <Forked> mmm fiber optic cables
17:44:23 *** lordnokon has joined #openttd
18:00:38 <mortal> where are test scripts hidden away in the source?
18:00:45 <mortal> or well in the repository
18:03:51 <frosch123> what do you want to test?
18:06:17 <mortal> frosch123, I was hoping ottd could serve as an example of testing in development
18:06:24 <Belugas> CRISTALL BALL!! ANSWER ME!!
18:06:38 <Forked> nothing is hidden in the source.. it's all right there ;p
18:06:45 <mortal> Belugas, 1) I was hoping you got that 2) all of them 3) all of them
18:07:29 <Aali> ottd "testing" consists of getting a bunch of guys to run the nightlies :D
18:07:48 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Should've stayed on freenose if you want christel to answer your questions.
18:07:58 <mortal> hooray... well in that case I'm off again, looking for more pedagogical examples ;)
18:09:05 *** tom0004 has joined #openttd
18:10:09 <mortal> my friend is in uni and I'm helping him with his programming course
18:10:21 <mortal> while taking care of my own college education
18:10:22 <Belugas> finding test scripts for Ottd is a bit... strange... amybe NoAI has that capability, but i'm not the one to answer that
18:11:09 <Aali> NoAI does have a regression "AI"
18:11:41 <Aali> it basically makes a log of a bunch of stuff
18:12:01 <Yexo> it executes a lot of commands and prints the results
18:12:16 <Yexo> those results are compared to "known good" results and should be the same
18:12:52 <Yexo> because openttd can repeat the same game over and over (as long as the same starting seed is used), this works
18:13:05 <Yexo> every sync with trunk the "known good" result is updated
18:15:58 *** Bennythen00b has joined #openttd
18:27:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14879 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix (r14878): forgot to update the regression (a one-liner)
18:27:17 * petern returns from walking the dogs
18:28:59 <Belugas> DON'T YOU FUCKING KNOW WHAT YOU ARE?
18:29:53 <Rexxars> YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!
18:30:08 <Bennythen00b> Begulas has gone bear...
18:30:27 <Belugas> well... if listening to Nine Inch Nail is going mad, than i'm mad
18:30:27 <goodger> Aali: different type of madness
18:31:52 <Prof_Frink> What's the first sign of Madness?
18:32:03 <Prof_Frink> Suggs walking up your drive.
18:32:17 <petern> crap, my headphones have been resting against a radiator
18:32:33 <petern> oh well, at least they're warm
18:33:08 <goodger> Prof_Frink: that's appalling
18:33:25 *** Bennythen00b_ has joined #openttd
18:34:03 <Bennythen00b_> Why did my name change..?
18:34:17 <petern> raaa, visualsvn at home :D
18:34:29 <Prof_Frink> goodger: I aim to please.
18:34:38 <Belugas> Bennythen00b_, there's two of you.
18:34:41 <goodger> Bennythen00b_: you signed in again without signing off
18:34:49 *** Bennythen00b was kicked by Belugas (one too many)
18:35:07 *** Bennythen00b_ has left #openttd
18:35:15 *** Bennythen00b_ has joined #openttd
18:35:28 * Prof_Frink idly wonders if goodger is the opposite of a badger
18:36:12 <goodger> Prof_Frink: no, it's my surname --- I am one of about four ben goodgers in existence worldwide, and one of the others is a famous firefox developer and google employee. guess who I am constantly asked if I am
18:36:48 <Prof_Frink> Are you Ben Goodger?
18:37:17 <Bennythen00b_> Are you that firefox developer?
18:37:41 * goodger thinks about banging head on desk, but reconsiders and bangs Bennythen00b_'s head on desk
18:38:45 <goodger> "it is not usually your fault. consider this before blaming yourself, and then determine whom else to blame"
18:39:06 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
18:39:24 *** Bennythen00b_ has joined #openttd
18:39:31 <Bennythen00b_> OH MY GOOOOD!!!!
18:39:33 <Bennythen00b_> NOW IM PISSED!!!
18:39:55 * Prof_Frink takes Bennythen00b_'s beer and asks him to leave
18:39:56 <Bennythen00b_> How do I get my name back...? :(
18:39:59 <Yexo> Bennythen00b_: what is your problem this time?
18:40:01 <Belugas> mmh... and to think I though bgoofer was the inspiration of walt Disney's Goofy :S
18:40:04 *** Bennythen00b_ is now known as Bennythen00b
18:40:25 <goodger> agh, the channel is being invaded by early-teenage norwegians
18:41:18 <Forked> I think I know a guy that works at his isp.. let me give him a call ;\
18:42:56 <Belugas> I know a farmer who lives on his farm...
18:43:05 <Forked> ye I know, I'm not funny :\
18:43:22 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
18:44:20 <Belugas> just reminded me of some Genesis lyrics :)
18:46:56 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
18:47:46 <Bennythen00b> Hey, what? : Prof_Frink takes Bennythen00b_'s beer and asks him to leave
18:48:19 <Forked> doh. I made a long tram line just to find out I can't buy at ram that carries valuables :)
18:48:19 <Bennythen00b> I dont drink beer.. Yuck.. :P
18:48:38 <Forked> Bennythen00b: are you above 18 years of age?
18:48:50 *** curosurf has joined #openttd
18:49:09 <Belugas> but you can't get drunk with coffee
18:49:12 <goodger> Forked: that's not very fair, I have only been that age for three months
18:49:34 <Rubidium> Forked: that happens when you play like the default AI
18:49:45 <Prof_Frink> Bennythen00b: You said you were pissed.
18:49:59 <Forked> goodger: well seeing how the minimum drinking age in Norway is 18 years .. I wouldn't try to encourage a minor to drink =p
18:50:11 <Forked> if he was older than 18, I'd just label him as insane :)
18:50:40 <goodger> Prof_Frink: again, dreadful
18:50:50 <Sacro> that's about 1/5 of Belugas's age
18:51:12 <Forked> Rubidium: nice burn. that one hurt :\
18:51:35 <Bennythen00b> <glx> 13 is to young for cofee
18:52:01 <Belugas> Sacro... I DEMAND EXCUSES!!!
18:52:13 <Sacro> Belugas: i'm full of curry
18:52:40 <glx> (to check if he managed to get a rejoin on kick)
18:52:44 * petern attempts conflict resolving
18:53:10 *** Sacro was kicked by Belugas (Freaking difference between 65 and 44!)
18:54:18 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
18:54:22 <petern> i get a yellow/orange bar where i have changes
18:54:28 <petern> i thought i had that before, though
18:54:42 <Sacro> Belugas: 44 eh, still fairly old :p
18:55:38 <Belugas> i'm as old as my earth is :) and I feel young!
18:56:06 <Belugas> petern, yes, it's a bit different
18:56:11 <goodger> that doesn't mean you're young, it means you're having a mid-life crisis and are about to buy a motorcycle
18:56:19 <Belugas> look in the left project stuff
18:56:27 <petern> seems to be what it tries to do normally but can't usually get exactly right
18:56:28 <Belugas> orange is changed, red is conflits
18:56:42 <petern> in the solution explorer there are the dots, yeah
18:57:10 <Belugas> goodger, i'd rather buy a new guitar! or a new amp... or an effect rack...
18:57:26 *** Bennythen00b is now known as Bennythen00b_-afk-
18:57:31 <Belugas> yeah... solution exploere... right word
18:57:34 *** Bennythen00b_-afk- is now known as Bennythen00b-afk-
18:57:54 *** Bennythen00b-afk- was kicked by DorpsGek (we don't like away nicks)
18:58:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but... riding a lovely bike through the lovely snow...
18:58:20 <Rubidium> Belugas: I only give you 6 points on that performance
18:58:51 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: damn you and your snow! *jealous*
18:58:57 *** Eddi|zuHause was kicked by Belugas (I HATE SNOW!)
18:58:58 <Rubidium> /kick Bennythen00b-afk- Bennythen00b-kfi-
18:59:01 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
18:59:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
18:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause> we have like 10cm
18:59:52 <Rubidium> Belugas: then you must be happy with the new looks of the forum ;)
19:00:17 <glx> it's enough to cancel flights in CDG and ORY
19:00:48 <Belugas> no i'm not, Rubidium.. i'm even more depressed than usual when i open it up :S
19:01:06 <Prof_Frink> glx: But is it the wrong kind of snow?
19:01:07 <goodger> 10cm is more than I've seen since I went on holiday to finland 11 years ago
19:01:18 <Rubidium> Belugas: why? the snow's gone
19:01:37 <goodger> Prof_Frink: no quoting Incompitence :P
19:01:39 <petern> it's stopped snowing but it takes ages to thaw
19:02:25 <gynter> why it says too close to another industry thou multiple_industry_pre_town and same_industry_close are on?
19:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> gynter: newgrf industries may implement custom checks
19:03:32 <goodger> (hi orudge, how are things? still at st andrews?)
19:03:48 *** insulfrog has joined #openttd
19:04:24 <Sacro> insulfrog: what about #simsig D:
19:04:44 <insulfrog> sorry, I didn't know anyone was on
19:05:40 <Sacro> me, welshdragon and zoe frequent it
19:05:43 <gynter> PBI makes this custom check?
19:05:47 <orudge> goodger: not bad, and yep, one more semester to go
19:06:13 <yorick> spotify finally works again here :)
19:06:25 <goodger> orudge: goodo, going to university of kent later this year, if UCAS aren't too incompetent
19:10:23 <Belugas> now, if only it was so easy to get rid of stupidity on those forums...
19:12:37 <Belugas> orudge, how hard could it be to have a sub tropical skin?
19:12:47 <orudge> if somebody makes it...
19:12:50 <orudge> there's a Toyland skin :P
19:12:56 <orudge> which I pull out at Easter occasionally
19:12:59 <orudge> well, it's not been updated for phpBB 3
19:13:02 <orudge> but I may do sometime >:3
19:13:43 <gynter> Aali, any fix to this?
19:14:11 <Aali> what do you mean "fix this"?
19:14:22 <Aali> its supposed to be that way
19:15:36 <Aali> if you don't like it, don't use the newgrf
19:15:37 <gynter> to be the way which ignores configuration? thats silly
19:17:39 <Aali> the configuration option doesn't say that it only affects default industries, and that's a bit of a problem
19:17:40 <Belugas> that's the way of the grfs
19:17:54 <Aali> but that is also the only issue here
19:19:46 <Belugas> by definition, a grf can do about anything he wants.
19:19:55 <Belugas> not going to break it
19:25:55 *** yorick_ has joined #openttd
19:26:57 <Alberth> sounds like a good idea
19:33:26 *** yorick_ is now known as yorick
19:38:49 *** Bennythen00b has joined #openttd
19:39:18 <Bennythen00b> Why cant I write "afk" after my nick? I am not complaining, I just want to knoe. :)
19:39:45 <Yexo> because there would be a lot of people cluttering the channel with their nick changes
19:39:46 <goodger> a) it's long enough already; b) none of us much cares that you're going away
19:40:52 <Bennythen00b> So next time I should leave the channel?
19:41:08 <Yexo> either that, or just stay in the channel with your current nick
19:41:10 <goodger> no... just stop talking
19:41:38 <Yexo> if someone wants to say something to you they'll figure out soon enough you are not there
19:41:40 <joachim> people who need to know can just /whois you
19:41:50 <joachim> or wait for no answer :)
19:44:13 *** Belugas has joined #openttd
19:44:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Belugas
19:46:07 <Eddi|zuHause> there is always the /away command, but nobody seems to actually use that...
19:46:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
19:46:31 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: Wait, using IRC how it is supposed to be used? Pfft.
19:46:31 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: that actually crashes my client sometimes
19:47:02 <goodger> I suffer enough monospaced white-on-black trauma as it is
19:47:03 <petern> i set away when i'm here
19:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> edeca: says the person who actually is set to away :p
19:47:19 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: Because I'm not here!
19:47:31 <thingwath> No, you are not here.
19:47:36 <edeca> petern: He's not here either
19:47:44 <petern> i chopped an onion or two about 30 minutes ago
19:47:49 <thingwath> (If you are not hiding under the bed, I wouldn't recommend doing that.)
19:47:54 <petern> 's still upsetting my eyes :/
19:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i was about to list all people that are set to away... that would have been fun :p
19:48:14 <edeca> petern: Got snow? (I think you're UK)
19:48:44 <edeca> goodger: Heck I'm bored of it now.
19:48:59 <edeca> Problem in the UK is that it gets to 1 or 2C, melts, then freezes again over night
19:49:03 <petern> so we had yesterday's partly melted and refrozen slippery stuff to deal with
19:49:06 <edeca> So you get pretty snow with a thick layer of ice
19:49:27 <edeca> It's great fun to drive on
19:49:27 <yorick> no snow means more ice :)
19:49:38 <yorick> more ice means more ice-fun
19:50:03 <goodger> problem in cornwall is that basic meteorology prevents us from having the conditions for snow --- under a depression it's too warm and under an anticyclone there's no cloud
19:50:23 <edeca> goodger: And most of it is by the coast
19:50:51 <edeca> I can remember snow once in 3 years near the coast :(
19:51:12 <goodger> depends what you mean by "near"
19:51:23 <edeca> Nearer than the midlands :)
19:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> cornwall... that's like the end of the world, right?
19:51:49 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: you're very receptive
19:52:49 <goodger> I don't call that close to the coast
19:53:07 <edeca> Most of the world would
19:53:08 <petern> there are several places called 'land's end' heh
19:53:20 <edeca> petern: And there are several places that should be
19:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> wow... these GEZ letters sound more and more aggressive every time...
19:53:24 <Belugas> [14:52] <Eddi|zuHause> cornwall... that's like the end of the world, right? <-- don't make a fire there. Or the wall will pop
19:53:33 <thingwath> it's a bit different when the nearest coast is 400 kilometers away
19:54:19 <goodger> of course, the island is only 31km wide at this point
19:54:21 <petern> my nearest coast is the thames estuary, i guess. does that count as coast?
19:54:30 <goodger> so my perception of "inland" is a bit skewed
19:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> we have a tiny stream and a lake in the village, does that count as coast?
19:54:55 <petern> you are right near the end then
19:55:00 <edeca> petern: Mm, mine is the norfolk coast :|
19:55:07 <edeca> And *nobody* wants to go there
19:55:17 <goodger> petern: actually I'm barely 45mins drive from plymouth
19:55:47 <goodger> it gets much, much thinner of course
19:56:16 <petern> bah, why doesn't google maps have a measuring tool?
19:57:06 <petern> Belugas, not a particularly well known brand here
19:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> google maps does not work in konqueror 3.5 anymore
19:57:21 <goodger> petern: it does, under "my maps" -> "featured content"
19:57:48 <goodger> Belugas: yeah, I've only heard of that brand through old US television
19:59:04 <petern> hmm, the severn is 67 miles away
19:59:20 <petern> everything is much smaller when you measure as the crow flies...
19:59:51 <petern> 71 miles to the south coast
20:00:12 <edeca> Now we can pinpoint you and fling stuff!
20:00:28 <edeca> You're pretty much in the middle of the country, I smell Swindon
20:00:40 <edeca> (middle of the habitable, civilised country that is)
20:01:01 <edeca> Eh, I'm not *that* desperate to work it out, but..
20:01:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that'll be over here...
20:01:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the civilised country
20:01:27 <petern> swindon's much closer to the severn
20:02:09 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: You don't want to live north of Watford gap
20:02:19 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: swindon is absolutely not civilised
20:02:39 <edeca> Woah, my geography is awful, Swindon is practically in wales! ;)
20:02:47 <goodger> most of the M4 corridor is pretty uninteresting
20:02:59 <thingwath> what you mean by 'civilised'?
20:03:02 <edeca> Well I hope you're nearer Reading than Slough
20:03:11 <edeca> thingwath: You know, people only have 1 head and 10 digits
20:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> actually... if you extrapolate the line swindon-london, you end up right here...
20:03:21 <edeca> thingwath: Nobody carries pitchforks, civil unrest is unheard of
20:03:32 <goodger> edeca: downplay the digits
20:03:41 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: Leipzig? ;)
20:04:19 <petern> 36 miles from watford gap
20:04:31 <goodger> what is the watford gap?
20:04:40 <edeca> goodger: Service station, the "start of the north"
20:04:45 <petern> a service station on the M1
20:04:51 <edeca> goodger: Or, to be more positive, "the end of the north"
20:04:57 <edeca> goodger: Depends which way you're facing ;)
20:05:00 <petern> near watford, but not the normal watford
20:05:05 <goodger> I was born about 30 miles northnorthwest of watford
20:05:16 <edeca> goodger: That's still south of watford gap probably
20:05:28 <edeca> Whoever built the service station had pretty much no idea of geography
20:05:57 <edeca> goodger: Woop indeed, I'm near enough there
20:06:01 <petern> edeca: "it's near watford, let's call it watford gap" ?
20:06:14 <goodger> the first time I went back there after moving to cornwall, I burst into uncontrollable laughter when reading the name "towecester" aloud..
20:06:17 <edeca> petern: It's nearer Luton or Milton Keynes?
20:06:27 <petern> no, it's right next to watford
20:06:32 <edeca> goodger: Ask an American to pronounce Welwyn
20:06:36 <edeca> petern: Oh, some tiny town? :)
20:06:46 <Belugas> goodger, Plymout is part of my youth, to some extend :)
20:06:59 *** De_Ghost has joined #openttd
20:07:01 <Bennythen00b> Plymouth makes nice cars :D
20:07:01 <goodger> Belugas: you have my commiserations
20:07:26 <petern> how would you pronounce welwyn?
20:07:32 <Belugas> commiserations? mmh... another new pedantic word to add to my dicto
20:07:57 <edeca> petern: "Wellin", not "Well win"
20:11:20 <goodger> edeca: try tywardreath, fowey, lostwithiel, landhydrock, liskeard, ruanlanihorne, trerulefoot, mevagissey...
20:11:33 <goodger> cornwall is full of interesting names such as these
20:11:42 <edeca> goodger: Mm, I always thought it was a bit weird there ;)
20:11:46 <edeca> goodger: Good home made cider though
20:12:39 <edeca> My cider this year has a tendancy to explode when you open the bottle
20:13:42 *** sigmund_ has joined #openttd
20:14:53 <Belugas> means you've added a tiny bit too much sugar to the recipe :)
20:15:11 <Forked> note to self: it's almost always user error.. even when you are the user (or a good friend of him)
20:15:45 <edeca> Belugas: Yeah, when I bottled it :)
20:15:49 <edeca> Belugas: First time I tried, good fun.
20:15:59 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
20:16:18 <Belugas> i'm very good at bottling
20:16:28 <gynter> is it possible to transfer more than 40 mil € to other company?
20:16:54 <Belugas> gynter, try, and tell us the results... We are dying to know :)
20:19:11 <gynter> no no, i mean is it possible to set the amount from config?
20:19:37 *** KillaloT has joined #openttd
20:23:44 <frosch123> CommandCost amount(EXPENSES_OTHER, min((Money)p1, (Money)20000000LL)); <- looks pretty hardcoded
20:24:59 <Rubidium> frosch123: really? setting prefix to "", suffix to "€" and changing rate accordingly makes it somewhat configurable
20:29:29 *** Bennythen00b_ has joined #openttd
20:30:04 *** Bennythen00b was kicked by Belugas (Bennythen00b)
20:31:00 <frosch123> yeah, I always use yoctoeuro for my bank balance
20:31:12 <edeca> frosch123: Shame Iceland couldn't do the same
20:31:31 *** insulfrog has left #openttd
20:34:09 <Eddi|zuHause> iceland... does that still exist?
20:34:27 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: the country or the frozen food retailer?
20:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of that one
20:35:39 <goodger> retailer? er, seller... "shop" is not quite the whole meaning, but roughly the same
20:36:33 <goodger> frosch123: try using yottoeuros, that will cause some intriguing computer problems
20:38:40 <goodger> that's why mum's severely constipated
20:39:17 <goodger> "look at all this --- mini chocolatey bites, mini tarty bites, mini lardy bites, mini bite bites --- and it's only five quid per metric tonne!"
20:40:01 <edeca> Hm, so many English jokes that could be made but wouldn't be understood by 90% ;)
20:40:45 <goodger> edeca: most of the non-english in here have the sort of personality that looks up words in dictionaries for hours until it understands the joke
20:41:10 <edeca> goodger: Many of them wouldn't know who waynetta slob is though ;)
20:41:22 <goodger> well, I wouldn't know that either
20:41:34 <edeca> goodger: You never saw Harry Enfield?
20:41:53 <goodger> who on earth is harry enfield?
20:42:30 <goodger> generation gap FAIL :P
20:42:43 <edeca> goodger: Which generation are you from!
20:42:54 <petern> harry enfield has been on telly in the past year...
20:43:08 <edeca> petern: His stuff last year was nonsense :(
20:43:36 <edeca> You know you're getting old when the generation after you is on the front of the Economist, instead of your own :(
20:44:25 <goodger> edeca: I won't be on the front of the economist for a while yet
20:44:56 <edeca> goodger: Heh, it was the "Generation Y comes of age" article a few weeks back that made me feel old
20:45:24 *** Bennythen00b has joined #openttd
20:45:45 <goodger> I would be astounded to find a generation Y-er reading the economist apart from myself, but I'm a very isolated young man
20:45:55 <edeca> goodger: So anyway, In The Night Garden was on an hour ago ;)
20:46:23 <goodger> ...having thoroughly read through harry enfield's wikipedia article I can confirm I have never seen any of his work, ever
20:46:30 <edeca> goodger: Probably for the best
20:46:35 <edeca> goodger: Stick to the Economist
20:47:21 <petern> technically i am generation y, though i've never heard of the term before
20:47:43 * goodger feels a little less isolated
20:47:46 <goodger> I wonder if there is a register of historic companies' first-year return on capital employed...
20:47:48 <Nite_Owl> You know you are getting old when the naked girls in your magazine are younger then you are
20:48:01 <edeca> petern: Technically? You either are or aren't, unless you can time travel :)
20:48:28 <goodger> matias: they do indeed work
20:48:28 <petern> edeca: apparently the years vary
20:48:40 <petern> goodger, well, i am 31 this year...
20:48:40 <edeca> petern: Ar, I thought it was an 80s/90s thing
20:48:48 <edeca> petern: Heh, I'm generation X
20:48:55 <matias> goodger: they are missing another direction
20:49:01 <petern> edeca: 1975 to 1978 seems to be the concesus
20:49:02 <Nite_Owl> rather proves my point
20:49:05 <goodger> petern: you can't be generation Y if you're 31... gen Y is 1990 onward
20:49:25 <edeca> goodger: Yeah, I thought it was too..
20:49:29 <edeca> goodger: But wikipedia disagrees
20:49:35 <petern> wikipedia says since 1975...
20:49:38 <edeca> goodger: I thought X was 80s, Y was 90s
20:49:55 <edeca> Wikipedia disagrees with the economist and private eye too
20:50:06 <goodger> oh, that's irritating
20:50:23 <petern> if X is 80s, then i'm not X or Y...
20:50:25 <goodger> the wikipedia article on generation X has a completely different definition of generation Y
20:50:58 <Nite_Owl> does not pertain to when you were born but when you came of age
20:51:11 <edeca> goodger: Yep, it's completely messed up
20:51:27 <edeca> Nite_Owl: Yeah, hence generation Y came of age last year
20:51:30 <goodger> X = 1980, Y = 1990, Z = 2000... and I'm just within Y, but my friends are all X or older
20:51:32 <edeca> Nite_Owl: 18 years after 1990
20:51:38 <edeca> Nite_Owl: Hence the article I was mentioning
20:51:47 * goodger can vote now. be afraid
20:52:02 <edeca> goodger: I've got you down as a monster raving loony already
20:52:17 <goodger> edeca: nah, goodger party will sort out this country
20:52:40 <matias> goodger: half cloverleaf seems to work both directions, but the last two pictures show a version where trains coming from left cannot turn and when turning trains come back, they have to continue to the right..
20:52:45 <goodger> the lib dems are very nice, but can you imagine them actually running the country?
20:52:51 <edeca> petern: No, monster raving loony as in, er, the monster raving loony party
20:53:01 <edeca> goodger: My sentiments exactly. Libdem are excellent locally in some areas, but er,
20:53:12 <edeca> Nick Clegg is wasted on 'em too
20:53:22 <edeca> Give them another drunken leader and they'd be good fun again
20:53:23 <Sacro> they are awesome in hull
20:53:51 <petern> Nite_Owl... wait, what magazines?
20:54:06 <goodger> my vote is wasted in cornwall also, because the lib-dems have such a huge majority and it's totally irrelevant because of our silly constituency-based electoral system wheren Labour has a majority of seats but only 35% of the vote
20:54:28 <petern> it's because nobody lives there
20:54:30 <goodger> petern: I think he's talking about pornograms
20:55:02 <Nite_Owl> those paper things people looked at before there was an Internet
20:55:10 <petern> YOUNG LADY UNSTRAPS HER SHOE STRAP STOP
20:55:51 <edeca> PERSON OF QUESTIONABLE AGE ENTERS STAGE LEFT WEARING LITTLE STOP
20:55:55 *** grumbel has joined #openttd
20:55:57 <goodger> petern: if cornwall's population is 5m, and 2.6m people vote for the lib dems, then the lib dems win cornwall. if 5m people vote for the lib dems, the situation is unchanged
20:56:29 <edeca> Well er, you just described two situations where one party gets >50% of the vote
20:56:50 <goodger> under this system, labour forms a government despite 65% of the country voting against labour
20:57:08 <edeca> As far fewer than 65% of the country turn up to vote, I doubt that.
20:57:08 <goodger> edeca: yes, but in both situations, the entire county of cornwall votes lib dem, as far as forming a government is concerned
20:57:35 * edeca throws proportional representation to the dogs
20:58:19 <goodger> swiss-style parliamentary and direct democracy FTW
20:58:26 <goodger> westminster system FTL
21:00:46 <goodger> I wish the university of kent would hurry up and process my application
21:02:04 <goodger> the process is not difficult --- review grades, and predicted grades, read personal statement, evaluate whether personal statement indicates psychopathy or genius, read tutor reference, then rubber-stamp "yes", "conditional" or "no" on the paper
21:02:14 <goodger> it must take, what, about twenty minutes
21:02:34 <edeca> Do you have no idea what academics do all day? :)
21:02:53 <edeca> Smoke, talk, smoke, drink, ignore phones, smoke, drink, talk, ignore email, GOTO 10
21:03:10 <goodger> edeca: these admissions officers are employed specifically to do this
21:03:26 <edeca> goodger: Not all of them.
21:03:32 <goodger> edeca: better "repeat until ... false", line 10 may change
21:03:44 <edeca> goodger: Certainly where I went it was one of the tutors who did all of the work processing new students
21:04:23 <petern> yeah but that was about 40 years ago
21:04:37 <goodger> sodding cambridge manage to get all their applications done by january the second, why not kent? kent's job is far easier than cambridge's
21:05:22 <petern> they don't have to take any stupid people to make up numbers
21:06:16 <goodger> petern: they are swamped with tens of thousands of applications with near-identical grades (AAAA, AAAAA, or AAAAAA) and have to rank them
21:06:32 <petern> AAAAAA > AAAAA > AAAA, etc
21:06:45 <petern> especially if they're foreign
21:06:54 <goodger> yeah, but they have to read the personal statements and references also
21:07:03 <edeca> Nah, it's all opposite if they're foreign as they pay more $$$
21:07:23 <goodger> kent on the other hand has the simple question "will they pass the course?" which is achieved on the basis of evaluating the question "have they got 280 points and two Cs at A-level?"
21:07:34 <goodger> which a sodding computer could do automatically
21:07:56 <edeca> That's complete crap though. I have friends who got straight As, were accepted to Cambridge and dropped out after 3 weeks as it wasn't for them
21:08:05 <edeca> And I know people who scraped A-levels but managed a 2:1
21:08:24 <edeca> Anyhow, grades (whether A-level or degree) become obsolete the second you get your first job.
21:08:39 <goodger> precisely, when you get into straight-A territories the ranking becomes impossible
21:08:54 <edeca> goodger: Which further demonstrates how polluted the A-level pool is :)
21:09:01 <goodger> edeca: I'll bet the words "first at Oxford" will get you a better degree than "2:1 at Oxford"
21:09:13 <petern> goodger, did your mono stuff get fixed?
21:09:20 <edeca> Eh, a better degree or better job?
21:09:29 <goodger> edeca: I'm aware of that, and I have designed a replacement, but until I can execute a coup d'etat I will be forced to work within it
21:09:40 <goodger> edeca: a better job, sorry. or a better master's degree
21:09:41 <edeca> You designed a replacement
21:09:57 <edeca> goodger: Everybody knows you get your masters for free if you pass at Oxbridge and pay 100 ;)
21:10:05 <goodger> wasn't difficult, simply identifying the problems was the difficult part
21:10:17 <edeca> Does your replacement involve pain for those who are below average?
21:10:21 <goodger> petern: no, I'm still writing the bug description
21:11:08 <goodger> edeca: it includes a mechanism by which the below-average never apply to a university
21:11:16 <frosch123> George: When a industry is constructed the tiles remember whether they were build on land, sea, river or canal. (see tile property 0D and callback 2F) When the tile was sea before it will continue flooding, when it was river or canal before and the ground sprite of the tile is the plain water tile, it will draw canal/river borders. Neighbored river/canal tiles will only draw their borders when the industry tile was built on land.
21:11:51 <frosch123> But that only works for flat tiles, not industries on shore
21:12:59 <edeca> goodger: Harsh, universities keep many people out of the dole office for 3 years, more if they repeat! ;)
21:13:19 <edeca> goodger: Who would work in your local Tesco?
21:14:11 <goodger> edeca: well, I was working on the basis that people of intelligence below 108 are in fact incapable of achieving a university degree
21:14:44 <edeca> goodger: Your system fails to account for those who are merely lazy and do badly at A-level, but have plenty of potential to succeed at university in one specific subject
21:14:46 <goodger> the people working in my local tesco are all middle-aged women who were made redundant by the regional development agency when they demolished the town centre
21:15:07 <SmatZ> women demolished the town centre?
21:15:43 <goodger> SmatZ: I'm sure the demolition crew included at least one woman, but they were employed by the RDA
21:16:10 <goodger> edeca: the system removes the A-levels and replaces it with a pre-degree which exhibits more focusing and, more importantly, a more valuable method of teaching and assessment than the current system
21:18:23 <goodger> it is designed to address the problems with it that lead to people like me getting DDDE at A-level, while people with no obvious capacity for useful thought get AAAAAA
21:18:24 <goodger> (yes, that is six As)
21:20:52 <goodger> frosch123: I care, because despite technically qualifying as a genius I am not allowed access to Cambridge, unlike those above people
21:21:30 <goodger> I wasn't even lazy or unmotivated
21:21:49 <frosch123> then change cambridge
21:21:53 <goodger> hurry up, university of kent!
21:22:12 <goodger> frosch123: I can't change cambridge, because I am not in government
21:24:13 <edeca> goodger: Heh, I got ADDE (with no effort) and a first at uni. Go figure :\
21:24:25 <edeca> goodger: I discovered women and weekend jobs at college and decided they were more fun
21:24:44 <goodger> edeca: I'll bet that wasn't cambridge... what was the A?
21:25:19 <edeca> goodger: Heh no, I studied at an old poly (hence the first?)
21:25:24 <edeca> goodger: And the A was computing
21:25:54 <goodger> ah, I got a D in that. I kept putting the correct answer to things
21:26:02 <frosch123> what do you need for "computing"?
21:26:09 * SmatZ just found slackware 10 disc 2 at one of his RWs...
21:26:22 <edeca> frosch123: Nothing much, understand binary and be able to program in VB? Heh
21:26:27 <goodger> i.e., the answer papers for the past papers I did were wrong, according to me, my teacher, my textbook and wikipedia
21:26:51 <goodger> frosch123: you also have to be able to draw a 1960s CPU from memory
21:26:53 <edeca> goodger: That's your problem. You need to get inside the exam and work out what they think they want to know.
21:27:07 <edeca> goodger: That's how I got a first. Don't work out the correct answer, work out what they want to know.
21:27:37 <goodger> edeca: how can I possibly know what they want to know? there are multiple incorrect answers to questions
21:28:26 <goodger> for instance, "what is the capacity of a DVD?" correct answer is 4.7 GiB, the answer they wanted was 6.0 GB
21:28:27 <goodger> (GCSE information technology)
21:28:28 <edeca> goodger: Meh, it's an art, but it works.
21:28:48 <goodger> they asked me to put the correct answer, and I have no way of telling what they think is the answer
21:29:35 <thingwath> "what is the capacity of a DVD?" is a question for the people in your local Tesco :-)
21:30:43 <edeca> thingwath: "One series of Scrubs" hawhawhaw
21:31:05 <goodger> oh well, can't change it now.... will have to rely on UKC giving me a place out (I do not currently meet their entry requirements and I've no idea what my accounting teacher has put for a predicted grade)
21:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, it's -22°C here
21:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and they talk about global warming...
21:40:21 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: Sheesh, we've got headlines about -7
21:40:25 <frosch123> you should turn on the heating
21:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i just did that. even my computer at full load can't heat my room propely anymore
21:42:32 <goodger> -3 here at midnight last night :S
21:42:41 <goodger> due to clear skies -- no snow :(
21:42:59 <goodger> oh, apparently it's -5 now
21:43:04 <Nite_Owl> 75 Fahrenheit here (Muwahahaha)
21:43:15 <goodger> "humidity 100%" --- google might be a bit off here
21:43:29 <SmatZ> hmm... CDs with RedHad 6.. 7... Mandrake 9... 10.. :-x
21:43:48 <goodger> SmatZ: I've mandrivel six somewhere
21:45:01 <SmatZ> goodger: I think these CDs will be in trash can soon ;)
21:45:27 <goodger> SmatZ: recycle them as home decorations
21:45:42 <petern> not particularly pretty decorations
21:45:49 <goodger> they will be a talking point
21:46:02 <Nite_Owl> I can not think in metric
21:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> how much is 75°F in real temperatures?
21:46:16 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: about 23-ish
21:46:42 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a cool summer you have there
21:47:07 <Nite_Owl> not summer just tropical
21:47:55 <goodger> Nite_Owl: where are you?
21:48:46 <SmatZ> goodger: maybe I will give them to my father, he has many old CDs as decoration ;) also, we are scaring birds with old CDs (but they aren't very scared :-/
21:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the xkcds that i can't relate to
21:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> what strikes me as odd about this, though
21:50:04 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that's a joke...
21:50:18 <goodger> do I have to dispense a withering look?
21:50:20 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: two litter bottle : 3L
21:52:10 <goodger> the US usually uses its weird customary units except for 2L drink bottles
21:52:31 <goodger> why not have a 70-oz bottle instead?
21:52:47 <goodger> if they want to use their obscure customary units they should be consistent
21:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> last time i was in the us, they had 96oz bottles
21:53:14 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: that's nearly 3L
21:53:35 <glx> 350mL: soda can <-- false a can is 330mL
21:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: only metric cans :p
21:54:14 <goodger> glx: a US soda can is 12 fl.oz. = 354ml
21:54:37 <goodger> er, no, the lack of pavements is why they're fat
21:54:50 <petern> they drive cars on them
21:54:54 <petern> or rather, automobiles
21:55:03 <Eddi|zuHause> germany used to have 0,5l cans (especially for beer)
21:55:17 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: we have that too
21:55:17 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: you don't have anymore?
21:55:21 <goodger> petern: "automobile" is a perfectly good word for a car in the UK also
21:55:21 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: norway still has them
21:55:22 <petern> pavements == road in us...
21:55:33 <petern> goodger, yes, but car isn't in the us
21:55:43 <glx> but beer is better in bottles
21:55:50 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: they got unpopular when the government forced a return fee on them
21:55:59 <Belugas> nope... beer is better in the throat
21:56:11 <petern> a beer should be 568ml, sheesh :/
21:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you go to Köln, there "1 beer" will give you 200ml
21:57:07 <Eddi|zuHause> or to München, there you'll get 1l
21:57:34 <petern> a proper pint, not a us pint
21:58:05 <glx> silly imperial being not the same in different countries
21:58:26 <petern> silly americans for messing up imperial
21:58:34 <petern> it's hardly imperial's fault
21:58:40 <Eddi|zuHause> PS: by that table, it is FUCKFUCKFUCKCOLD
21:58:48 <goodger> one of the few remaining imperial measures in use in the UK
21:59:07 <goodger> we have mph/miles [for cars], pints [for milk and beer], psi [for car tyres] and stones/pounds/feet/inches [for measuring people]
21:59:36 <petern> and 454g for bags of sugar...
21:59:55 <gynter> how old must company be to buy shares from?
22:00:14 <glx> if it's allowed by settings
22:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> germany has very few non-metric measures still in use
22:00:34 <goodger> that's about it, I think
22:00:36 <goodger> petern: no, 1kg for sugar.. :S
22:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> funny is the pound
22:01:07 <Eddi|zuHause> which got metrified
22:01:24 <glx> that's the unit for baby's weight
22:01:54 <goodger> calling a half-kilo a pound because it is roughly a pound is fine
22:02:18 <goodger> we would call a half-litre a pint, no doubt, if we started using metric for drinks
22:03:00 * Sacro hates getting 14oz of drink
22:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i really wonder why you didn't do that already
22:03:13 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: nationalists
22:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> cut drink content by 10%, charge same price
22:03:20 <SmatZ> are UK and US units the same? pound, gallon, inch... ?
22:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it's really a no-brainer
22:03:35 <SmatZ> that's even more confusing :(
22:03:38 <frosch123> they wait for calling a half euro a pound
22:03:44 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
22:03:58 <petern> but they don't use stones
22:03:59 <goodger> SmatZ: the pound and inch are the same, the gallon and pint are wildly different (and they don't use stones)
22:04:06 <glx> they have differences for volumes mainly
22:04:33 <goodger> frosch123: £1 will soon be worth 0,50€ so that will be OK
22:04:36 <petern> hence american mpgs look lower than english mpgs...
22:04:50 <goodger> oh, we also quote our car's fuel consumption in miles per gallon
22:05:13 <glx> L/100Km is easier to compare I think
22:05:47 <goodger> glx: mpg is impossible to compare because it's effectively a log scale
22:05:55 <goodger> the difference between 19 and 20 mpg is more than the difference between 20 and 21
22:06:22 <petern> it's a difference of 1 mile to a gallon
22:07:43 <goodger> ah, but if you want to compare how much fuel the two cars use, then it is different
22:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> how did we manage to get from cold temperatures to how far cars can go?
22:08:05 <glx> anyway 20L/100Km may scare them :)
22:08:13 <thingwath> evil imperial units
22:09:33 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
22:10:25 <goodger> 19 mpg = 12.37 l/km; 20 mpg = 11.76 l/100km (0.61 less); 21 mpg = 11.20 l/100km (0.56 less)
22:10:56 <glx> so it's a unit for the bigger the better :)
22:11:25 <goodger> so, changing from 20 to 21 is not as effective as changing from 19 to 20
22:12:01 <thingwath> but still by only a tiny difference
22:13:19 <goodger> in fact, changing from 52 to 60 mpg is the same as changing from 19 to 20 mpg
22:13:19 <goodger> in terms of improvement in fuel consumption
22:13:41 *** entropy has joined #openttd
22:13:49 <goodger> which is why this sort of scale is very bad when trying to get people to improve their cars
22:14:06 <frosch123> then express it in improvement of propulsion
22:14:27 <entropy> is there any mechanism of changing the minimal production of industries?
22:14:32 <goodger> well, no, it should just be expressed in l/100km all the way through
22:14:34 <frosch123> on in the amount of gas stations you can close
22:15:09 <frosch123> entropy: press ctrl-alt-c and activate modifying of production
22:16:13 <thingwath> goodger: even for a tanks or other armored vehicles? :)
22:16:41 <goodger> thingwath: especially
22:16:48 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
22:17:01 <goodger> glx: CO2/km is in fact the fundamental unit of fuel economy
22:17:30 <goodger> a litre of diesel fuel contains more energy than a litre of gasoline
22:17:30 <goodger> so comparing diesels and petrols on the basis of L/100km is pointless
22:17:35 <glx> but for common people it means nothing
22:17:36 <petern> as i understand it, at some point some us car makers pumped extra air into the exhaust to lower the %age of bad stuff
22:17:51 <thingwath> well, there is a myth, that tank has 100l/100km :)
22:18:17 <glx> thingwath: no it's true :)
22:18:18 <Sacro> FAT BOTTOMED GIRLS YOU MAKE THE ROCKIN' WORLD GO ROUND
22:18:37 <thingwath> true for which tank?
22:18:44 <goodger> thingwath: about 700 I think
22:18:57 <Vikthor> glx: depends on which tank and terrain it ravels trough
22:19:12 <thingwath> well, it doesn't get that low
22:19:25 <SmatZ> city/highway/forest/water/desert...
22:19:41 <glx> and usually the unit is L/h for those
22:19:42 <entropy> tanks don't use gasoline :)
22:20:48 <petern> when do we find a cheap source of hydrogen?
22:20:52 <entropy> no, for example, russian T-80 have a gas turbine
22:20:57 <thingwath> old german tanks had gasoline engines
22:21:12 <goodger> petern: we have one now, it is harvestable cheaply from the burning of natural gas
22:21:39 <goodger> when we run out of natural gas we will probably be forced to electrolyse water, which will have to be powered by solar or something
22:21:44 <entropy> abd t-90 uses diesel engine
22:22:31 <Vikthor> goodger: ehmm, natural gas is not currently much available around Europe :)
22:22:57 <thingwath> Russia is still in Europe, partly :o)
22:23:14 <fjb> I found the diesel consumption of the german Leopard 2 tank:
22:23:19 <fjb> Straße: ca. 340 l/100 km, ca. 340 km
22:23:22 <fjb> Gelände: ca. 530 l/100 km, ca. 220 km
22:23:23 <fjb> Mittel: ca. 410 l/100 km, ca. 280 km
22:23:25 <fjb> Standlauf: 12,5 l/h, 72–93 Stunden (bei 900–1.160 Liter Kraftstoffmenge)
22:23:26 <Vikthor> thingwath: But most of it's gas reservers aren't anyway
22:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: if you then consider that the thing can go 120km/h
22:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to refill twice before you reach paris :p
22:26:16 <thingwath> another question is how far it can go before the engine need replacement
22:28:26 <fjb> Engine replacement in the field takes about 15 mins, so you are not delayed that much.
22:29:27 <thingwath> new engines are expensive :)
22:30:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the engine of the tank is the most expensive :p
22:30:10 <fjb> Nobody considers that when buying or using military equipment. :-)
22:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause> but i was not in a tank unit, i don't knwo
22:30:51 <thingwath> But I want to conquer the world... and I have only very limited budget :/
22:31:13 <goodger> thingwath: get venture capital
22:31:17 <frosch123> no, it is important that you can get spare parts for 50 years
22:32:03 <glx> spare parts and people able to use them
22:32:29 <glx> that's a problem for nuclear plants
22:33:03 <glx> and it's even worse with increased usage of electronic components
22:33:27 <fjb> How can I read my C-64 disks?
22:34:21 <goodger> fjb: what filesystem did it use?
22:35:24 <fjb> Standard Commodore filesystem and one has a strange filesystem aparently only used by Data Becker.
22:37:30 <fjb> I thought that. But I should have some printouts of my old Basic stuff. :-)
22:38:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14880 /trunk/src/ (sound.cpp viewport.cpp window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: make it clear which way the FOR_ALL_WINDOWS goes (from back to front or vice versa) and make it iterate over the Window* instead of Window**.
22:39:22 <fjb> But that is one of the reasons why I'm still using film to capture pictures.
22:40:13 <goodger> well, computers will be backward-compatible with CD/DVD/BluRay until the end of time
22:40:41 <frosch123> as long as harddisk capacity increases as fast as your needs there is no problem
22:41:29 <fjb> But you have to copy everything over and over again. Most people forget about that.
22:41:36 <thingwath> it increases much faster, few last years :-)
22:41:37 <petern> goodger, as i understand it the C64 disk controller was 'special' in that software could run on it
22:41:52 <petern> and thus disks could be whatever format chosen...
22:42:11 <frosch123> fjb: when I buy a new harddisk, I copy all data on it. That is only one task
22:42:58 * goodger does not know whether he will be able to remove disks from his lvm while preserving the filesystem...
22:43:03 <fjb> And you hopefully have a second harddisk for backups.
22:43:16 <matias> yes, i didn't make them
22:43:45 <matias> main line goes from left to right
22:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> matias: does not look very realistic to me
22:43:59 <frosch123> fjb: including the old harddisk I have about 5 backups for the oldest data
22:44:30 <fjb> Better only old data then none.
22:44:37 <frosch123> and did you ever tried to read a burned cd older than 5 years
22:45:28 <frosch123> or a 3.5" floppy from middle 90s
22:45:39 <fjb> Depends heavily on the combination of burner and cd.
22:45:55 <glx> floppies are another story
22:46:14 <frosch123> maybe, but I am happy to only store stuff on (external) harddisks
22:46:25 <fjb> I have some difficulty to read DVDs about a year old while other three year old DVDs are fine.
22:46:28 <matias> glx: but is it fast if i would place the signals?
22:46:54 <frosch123> btw. 360k floppys are no problem
22:47:54 <fjb> The sectors of 360k floppies are quite big.
22:49:51 <fjb> Btw, I'm missing gosub and return as advanced orders. :-)
22:49:57 <goodger> Sacro: I know more about that than I probably shoul
22:53:00 <gynter> you know that you can earn money with shares & 2 companies?
22:53:23 <matias> glx: tried to fix Half Cloverleaf problems: join before leave, turn left to go right..
22:54:08 <Yexo> matias: it has a very slow turn in the middle
22:54:38 <matias> Yexo: yes, it should be larger
22:54:51 <gynter> hmm making a config option which disables money as company value would be good :P
22:55:20 <Yexo> in that case: con: too big :p
22:55:38 <matias> Yexo: half cloverleaf has worse turn.. 180 dec
22:56:31 <Yexo> matias: were did I say the half cloverleaf was any good?
22:56:31 *** PinguTux has joined #openttd
22:56:45 <matias> Yexo: what should i look?
22:57:19 <Yexo> depends on what you want of course
22:57:33 <goodger> the ultimate 3-way junction demands an awful lot of space
22:57:43 <goodger> in my experience there usually isn't that much space between towns
22:57:54 <Yexo> in that case, try the Half Transmogrified junction
22:58:34 <Yexo> better yet, don't use any pre-made junctions but just make them up on-the-fly depending on the current situation (space, hiils?, etc.)
22:58:51 <goodger> that's very inefficient
22:59:01 <Yexo> why is that inefficient?
23:00:10 <goodger> well, these designs have all been created for efficiency
23:00:19 <goodger> presumably any attempt of mine to build a junction will be less efficient
23:00:38 <matias> Yexo: half-spaghetti downside: turn right to turn left
23:00:54 <Yexo> matias: since we have yapf, that is not reallly a problem anymore
23:01:31 <Yexo> don't botter about that, just remember that turning right to turn left is not a problem
23:01:50 <Yexo> yapf = a 'new' train pathfinder, were 'new' is a few years old now
23:02:50 <Yexo> goodger: that's al nice, but what if there is a mountain side I want to create a junction on? I can't use any of the standard onces without flattening the whole mountain
23:03:03 <Eddi|zuHause> any train pathfinder available in openttd is "new"
23:03:22 <glx> Yexo: you gave NTP definition
23:03:34 <glx> yapf is Yet Another PathFinder
23:03:57 <Yexo> glx: it was not meant to be the definition, I know what yapf (and ntp) stand for
23:04:03 <matias> which junctions you usually use?
23:05:20 <Aali> i'm thinking maybe having a list of pre-made junctions at the wiki isn't such a good idea
23:05:55 <glx> building junctions is the best part of the game for me
23:06:22 <matias> Aali: why not? it gives you an idea how to make efficient tracks
23:06:28 <Aali> its definitely a big part of the game if you like trains
23:06:33 <Yexo> Aali: it's good to have a list to get inspiration for new players
23:07:07 <Aali> but still, you want to learn how to improvise, build something of your own :)
23:07:12 <matias> as a new user i made individual tracks because of i didn't know how to make a good junction
23:07:15 <Aali> thats where the fun starts
23:07:16 <frosch123> the best part of the game is to press ctrl-v and paste the finished network over the landscape :p
23:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> no two of my stations ever look the same
23:08:53 * Yexo still thinks it's the most fun to take a running 3-way junction and upgrade it (either make it 4-way or add an extra lane) without stopping or crashing the trains
23:09:27 <Aali> thats not bad, speed will suffer from that 2x45 curve though :)
23:09:34 <glx> and click at the wrong signal :)
23:09:47 <Yexo> that's part of the game :)
23:10:13 <glx> it can be fun with PBS and reserved tracks
23:10:54 <matias> Aali: slightly longer version wouldn't have that 2x45 curve
23:12:18 <matias> Aali: and what matters: I played the game first time 2 days ago
23:13:09 <matias> never seen transport tycoon before :)
23:13:42 <matias> ah, that's not right.. never played or seen it played before
23:16:52 <matias> where can i find how much trains slow down in turns
23:17:19 <Aali> check out the wiki page on realistic acceleration
23:17:37 <Aali> and welcome to the community :)
23:18:05 <matias> ok, so i should get rid of that one..
23:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause> how come i am the only person who almost never has "3 way junctions"?
23:19:54 * fjb has almost never 4-way junctions.
23:20:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14881 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Fix (r14880): somehow make didn't think that widgets/dropdown.cpp did depend on window_gui.h...
23:20:21 <fjb> There are many different ways to play this game. That is most of the fun in my opinion.
23:21:58 <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: your networks look like model railways (which is way cool) :P
23:25:19 *** SmoovTruck has joined #openttd
23:25:22 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%2020.%20Okt%201925.png <- i think this is one of my worst junctions...
23:26:52 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
23:27:13 <goodger> I am inclined to agree
23:28:18 <Aali> hmm, I only have one screenshot of a junction I've built and it's quite old by now
23:28:45 <Aali> even I get a headache just by looking at it
23:29:02 <Aali> not all tracks are connected (and they're not supposed to be)
23:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%204.%20Sep%201925.png <- well, other parts of the network looked better than that :)
23:29:19 <Aali> some tracks aren't even part of the junction, they just take a detour around it
23:30:55 <fjb> Hm, DBset, reminds my of my attempts to draw some railway equipment. :-(
23:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> looks alright to me, for 130km/h
23:44:25 <[com]buster> depends on how long your trains are...
23:45:48 <Aali> the ultimate 3-way (from the wiki) is CL3, that is, 3-tile trains dont slow down and others get the penalty for 3 tiles between two curves
23:46:22 <Aali> your junction is CL2 right now, used to be CL1
23:46:30 <Eddi|zuHause> matias: how about you have some trains run on it, and then judge whether it performs well enough?
23:48:01 <matias> does a curve slow more than a slope?
23:48:26 <Aali> slopes only slow down if your trains aren't powerful enough ;)
23:48:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14882 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Change: move widgets related files to their own category (MSVC)
23:48:38 *** goodger has joined #openttd
23:48:58 <Aali> while curve speed limits are constant
23:49:27 <Aali> so it all depends on your trains, but narrow curves are usually much worse
23:57:38 <matias> is there some statistic from curves / slopes? i think i found one today, but didn't read it
continue to next day ⏵
