IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-05
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00:03:49 <Wolf01> 'night
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00:09:46 <WhiteRhino> Evening, folks.
00:11:40 <TrueBrain> oh no, it is a white rhino
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00:14:11 <WhiteRhino> What's wrong with a White Rhino? >.>
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00:15:18 <TrueBrain> it is big!
00:15:20 <TrueBrain> and ... WHITE!
00:15:46 <WhiteRhino> And awesome. =D
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00:20:17 <WhiteRhino> Though I don't mean to toot my own horn. *rimshot*
00:22:10 <Sacro> spearmint rhino?
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00:30:17 <WhiteRhino> Don't know if I'm tastey enough to be considered Spearmint.
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00:40:28 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: glx * r14843 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Fix [FS#2480]: AIs didn't respect ai_disable_veh_* settings. Also add a more direct access to these settings for AI writers.
00:43:25 <WhiteRhino> My internet hasn't dumped me yet. Maybe tonight'll be better for playing online.
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00:52:51 <dh2k3> hello
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00:53:08 <dh2k3> my OTTD froze and I can't kill it
00:53:15 <dh2k3> know any solutions?
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00:54:16 <WhiteRhino> Ctrl-Alt-Delete?
00:54:35 <dh2k3> nope can't kill the process unless I reboot
00:54:46 <WhiteRhino> That might be your only option then. *shrug*
00:54:55 <dh2k3> Description:
00:54:55 <dh2k3> A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows.
00:55:09 <dh2k3> Problem signature:
00:55:10 <dh2k3> Problem Event Name: AppHangB1
00:55:10 <dh2k3> Application Name: openttd.exe
00:55:10 <dh2k3> Application Version:
00:55:19 <dh2k3> Application Timestamp: 48e3b12d
00:55:19 <dh2k3> Hang Signature: 1a6a
00:55:19 <dh2k3> Hang Type: 0
00:55:19 <dh2k3> OS Version: 6.0.6001.
00:55:19 <dh2k3> Locale ID: 1033
00:55:28 <dh2k3> Additional Hang Signature 1: a1f23cf6f6bc2c82e71ae7650c9651b9
00:55:28 <dh2k3> Additional Hang Signature 2: b504
00:55:28 <dh2k3> Additional Hang Signature 3: 899195c9183ed94a12f72dd21e71497c
00:55:28 <dh2k3> Additional Hang Signature 4: 1a6a
00:55:29 <dh2k3> Additional Hang Signature 5: a1f23cf6f6bc2c82e71ae7650c9651b9
00:55:30 <dh2k3> Additional Hang Signature 6: b504
00:55:32 <dh2k3> Additional Hang Signature 7: 899195c9183ed94a12f72dd21e71497c
00:55:36 <dh2k3> Read our privacy statement:
00:55:37 <goodger> dh2k3: pastebin, please
00:55:38 <dh2k3>
00:55:51 <dh2k3> pastebin what?
00:56:06 <goodger> pastebin your errors rather than flooding the channel
00:56:22 <dh2k3> that's all the errors it shows
00:56:25 <Yexo> if you have many lines (like above), copy it to and poste thelink here
00:57:23 <dh2k3>
00:57:45 <goodger> we've already read it now
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00:59:03 <glx> btw it doesn't really tell what's wrong
00:59:26 <dh2k3> k would this help?
00:59:30 <dh2k3> OS: Windows Longhorn XP Home Edition 6.0 Service Pack 1 (Build #6001) CPU: Intel Pentium III, 2.20 GHz Video: HP w17e Wide LCD Monitor on nVidia GeForce 8300 GS (1440x900x32bpp 60Hz) Sound: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio) Memory: Used: 562/2048MB Uptime: 9h 7m 53s HD: [C:HP] 90.14/456.71 GB [D:FACTORY_IMAGE] 1.25/9.05 GB Connection: Intel(R) PRO/100 VE Network Connection @ 100.0 Mbp
00:59:30 <dh2k3> s (Rec: 106.50MB Sent: 43.88MB)
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00:59:46 <glx> I already knew it was vista :)
00:59:53 <SmatZ> :)
00:59:54 <dh2k3> heh
00:59:55 <goodger> dh2k3: PASTEBIN
01:00:05 <dh2k3> pastebin comp specs?
01:01:13 <glx> OS Version:,...6.0.6001. <-- that's vista, xp is 5.1
01:01:48 <dh2k3>
01:02:05 <dh2k3> vista with SP1
01:02:59 <glx> I don't see how openttd could hang by itself (we don't use multithreading)
01:03:15 <dh2k3> well it's hung now
01:03:19 <dh2k3> happens daily
01:03:30 <dh2k3> usually after a few hours it hangs
01:03:30 <SmatZ> how can an app hang in a way it can't be killed?
01:03:39 <dh2k3> it's Vista?
01:03:40 <goodger> SmatZ: shitty kernel design...
01:03:49 <SmatZ> :)
01:03:53 <glx> any newgrf ?
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01:04:11 <dh2k3> just OTTDCo-ops for multiplayer
01:04:27 <glx> does it happen with a nightly too ?
01:05:02 <dh2k3> nly nightly I have is an ancient build for track sharing and working PBS
01:05:27 <glx> anyway if it was an infinite loop due to a bug, it should still be possible to kill it
01:05:31 <dh2k3> OTTD-win32-r13481M-TiPP
01:05:36 <SmatZ> does it help when you run it in a window? (maximised window instead of fullscreen)
01:05:51 <dh2k3> dunno haven't tried windowed
01:05:55 <SmatZ> maybe vista have problems with 8bpp apps...
01:05:57 <glx> could be a driver bug too yes
01:06:06 <dh2k3> which driver?
01:06:10 <glx> video
01:06:18 <dh2k3> latest from nVidia
01:07:30 <dh2k3> only way for me to kill it is restarting comp then it works again
01:07:53 <SmatZ> maybe it's because SP1 isn't final yet?
01:08:14 <SmatZ> or was it SP2? ... :-x
01:08:19 <dh2k3> Sp2
01:08:22 <dh2k3> Sp1 is final
01:08:25 <glx> googling for "AppHangB1" shows it's a vista problem
01:08:42 <glx> many applications encounter it
01:08:54 <dh2k3> weird thing is that this is the only one I've seen do this
01:09:02 <glx> IE, firefox, adobe cs3
01:09:11 <dh2k3> FF no issues
01:09:22 <dh2k3> don't use adobe (except for reader)
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01:10:53 <matias> hmm.. i let the time pass and my towns got a negative growth.. why?
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01:13:11 <WhiteRhino> That reminds me. On my short 64x64 game last night, even though I had food going to the town, the town didn't seem to grow any. In fact, after a year or two gametime, it stopped accepting food.
01:13:57 <matias> hmm.. i'm playing grasslands
01:15:03 <WhiteRhino> I think I was doing sub-arctic at the time.. didn't matter much given that 64x64 didn't give it much room to get to snowy areas.
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01:22:17 <WhiteRhino> Bah. =P
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01:26:44 <WhiteRhino> Trying to find mention on the forums of help for ship usage.
01:27:20 <Yexo> WhiteRhino: what do you want to know about ship usage?
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01:27:53 <WhiteRhino> How to use them without sucking. =P Any of the other three types of transport I've made decent money on, but... ships have never been anything but a moneypit for me.
01:28:16 <dh2k3> so what to do besides restarting to fix it and kill the process?
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01:29:22 <Yexo> I don't use ships often (actually most of the time I only use trains), but when I use them it's mostly to transport oil from oil rigs to refineries
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01:30:14 <WhiteRhino> Yeah, I tried that last night before I couldn't connect to the map I was playing anymore. The canals on the map tended to be so thin that I couldn't bring the Goods deep enough into towns, though.
01:30:47 <goodger> yes, they're fairly useless except for that...
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01:31:30 <Aali> ships are good for moving massive amounts of cargo where you don't have a lot of space
01:31:44 <Aali> since any number of ships can occupy and load/unload on the same tile
01:31:48 <WhiteRhino> The map also asked people not to terraform at all and not to use hovercrafts.. so other than a pair of oil tankers going to each of two offshore rigs, that was it. Didn't really get to see a profit before the map kicked me though.
01:35:09 <goodger> whyever shouldn't you use hovercrafts?
01:36:06 <WhiteRhino> I dunno, the map just asked not to. Maybe using them would cause people to make too much money too quickly. There was also notes asking people to only use two airports max. Didn't stop the other player that eventually joined from adding like ten, though.
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01:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause> ships are often disabled on multiplayer, because they can use a high amount of CPU time
01:42:07 <WhiteRhino> Huh. Didn't know that.
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01:46:12 <goodger> ah
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02:22:58 <WhiteRhino> That Roboboy can't make up his mind. =P
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02:26:00 <goodger> apparently not
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02:41:01 <WhiteRhino> Hmm. Dinner or TTD.
02:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> have a TTDinner
02:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Dinner for TT
02:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> same procedure as last year
02:42:46 <WhiteRhino> Ooh. Traffic Set V3.0
02:46:24 <SpearmintRhino> ooh another Rhino
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02:47:53 <WhiteRhinoPSO> And another Rhino still-... dang.
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04:16:32 <WhiteRhino> Awful quiet in here lately.
04:17:30 <Eddi|zuHause> happens, when it's 5AM
04:17:38 <WhiteRhino> 11:14pm. ;)
04:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> only for a very small minority of people in here :p
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04:21:41 <WhiteRhino> Now I haven't played in awhile, but $40k seems high for a single water tanker traincar.
04:22:56 <goodger> WhiteRhino: inflation is simulated more or less accurately...
04:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause> WhiteRhino: newgrfs?
04:24:00 <WhiteRhino> The only one I have is the one that changes Toyland to Mars.
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04:39:52 <WhiteRhino> Network disconnected me. Just as well given how quickly I rode the company I'd just started into the ground.
04:42:22 <goodger> WhiteRhino: you're wasting your time on openttd, you could be being paid £60kpa to ride companies into the ground
04:42:51 <goodger> *real companies
04:44:12 <goodger> incidentally, WhiteRhino, your clock is three minutes slow
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04:53:30 <WhiteRhino> First of all, bah. =P Second of all.. you're right. My PC clock is three minutes slower than the atomic one on the wall. o.O
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05:00:25 <goodger> I wasn't aware caesium fountain clocks were wall-mountable
05:00:44 <HttpErrors> use ducktape.
05:00:49 <HttpErrors> always works.
05:01:20 <goodger> HttpErrors: in that case I'd be more concerned about the ability of the paint to stick to the plaster, and the plaster to stick to the wall
05:01:43 <HttpErrors> what if the wall was made out of nokias?
05:02:15 <goodger> then I daresay they'd have difficulty sticking to each other as well
05:02:53 <goodger> in which case WhiteRhino would end up with a caesium fountain clock, interior emulsion, wall plaster and a large pile of mobile phones on his floor
05:03:07 <WhiteRhino> What makes you think I don't now? =)
05:03:45 <goodger> WhiteRhino: I think it's quite unlikely
05:05:27 <HttpErrors> lol
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05:13:52 <WhiteRhino> Ahh, that feels better. Starting a company that's actually going places.
05:14:43 <WhiteRhino> ANd then forgetting that Steel has to go to somewhere before it becomes Goods and wasting money on a whole line. Balls.
05:24:21 <goodger> :P
05:26:30 <goodger> ah, new xkcd. excellent
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05:33:17 <WhiteRhino> Gah! That one wood train always breaks down right in the middle of my big intersection!
05:33:32 <goodger> WhiteRhino: design your intersections better...
05:34:04 <goodger> if the intersection is appropriately designed and the trains are the right length, then one of them should be able to break down in the middle and still allow through traffic from the other direction
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05:34:16 <WhiteRhino> It
05:34:17 <WhiteRhino> It
05:34:20 <WhiteRhino> ...Stupid fingers.
05:34:25 <goodger> ¬.¬
05:35:05 <WhiteRhino> *cough* It's more where one dual line branches off into another dual-line. It's a T-intersection formed by two dual-lines and one single-line. The single is where the wood train is supposed to go.
05:35:53 <goodger> right
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06:33:48 <WhiteRhino> 14 trains, all but two of them going to a 4-wide, 4-long station from both ends.
06:34:44 <goodger> huzzah!
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06:46:13 <WhiteRhino> God.. traffic jams.
06:46:28 <goodger> yes.
06:46:37 <goodger> suggest you enlarge the station just a tiny bit?
06:47:13 <WhiteRhino> I can't. It's the size it is because on one side is a steel mill and the other is a sawmill.
06:47:39 <goodger> ...ah
06:48:01 <goodger> try moving it along a few squares so that it is not between both of those
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06:58:50 <WhiteRhino> That cost me... about $400k.
06:59:32 <goodger> but now you can make profit because your trains will be able to reach their station
06:59:51 <goodger> and I think you have been a bit clumsy if you've spent $400k moving a station
07:00:03 <WhiteRhino> See, there was a lake behind it...
07:00:12 <goodger> *headdesk*
07:00:28 <goodger> did you not think to move it in the other direction?
07:00:28 <WhiteRhino> Small lake.. but in order to put the station somewhere where I could expand it out to six wide, I had to kind of remove said lake.
07:00:39 <WhiteRhino> Other direction had hills. x.x
07:00:53 <goodger> I think hills are more cheaply removed...
07:01:07 <goodger> I wasn't aware TTD generated closed lakes
07:01:43 <WhiteRhino> This one did. =P
07:01:51 <goodger> very well
07:02:03 <goodger> enjoy your shiny new megahub
07:02:08 <goodger> hmm, 7am
07:02:18 <goodger> I probably should have gone to bed about eight hours ago
07:02:44 <WhiteRhino> Thanks. =P
07:02:46 <goodger> I hope this sleep disorder goes away before I go to university
07:05:04 <WhiteRhino> So, that's why I've been losing money. Took me long enough to build the new station that it changed names. Everybody's been running around with (Invalid Orders).
07:05:24 <goodger> ha
07:05:24 <goodger> :P
07:06:38 <goodger> honey nut cornflakes are the best foodstuff ever devised, I say
07:08:18 <goodger> gah, my cat's got hold of that cheque again
07:08:34 <WhiteRhino> Yeargh. Now they're back to jamming at the little intersection.
07:08:42 <goodger> heh
07:08:51 * goodger retrieves cheque
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07:19:03 <WhiteRhino> argh!
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07:20:22 <goodger> WhiteRhino: yarr!
07:20:39 <WhiteRhino> Crashed trains 'cus I tried to fix a small traffic jam.
07:22:07 <goodger> heh
07:22:09 <goodger> typical
07:22:21 <WhiteRhino> Curse you, ignore signal button.
07:22:56 <goodger> :P
07:23:17 <goodger> o'reilly are taking the piss
07:23:21 <petern> staying up on IRC doesn't really help with sleep disorders
07:23:34 <goodger> $29.99 for a 137-page book
07:24:01 <goodger> petern: I know, but I have to be up at 9am, and there's no way I'll achieve that if I go to bed at 4am
07:24:02 <petern> also
07:24:07 <petern> it snowed
07:24:18 <goodger> maybe where you are
07:24:32 <petern> yes, obviously where i am :)
07:25:07 <goodger> the exterior of my house remains devoid of snow and indeed closu
07:25:08 <goodger> *cloud
07:26:34 <goodger> this book isn't even printed on decent paper
07:27:36 <petern> and presumably wasn't made by the foliosociety
07:28:07 <goodger> no, it was printed in the USA
07:28:23 <goodger> and it really is _appallingly_ overpriced
07:28:37 <goodger> you'd expect more than 140 pages for £25
07:35:10 <WhiteRhino> I just placed my first Presignals. >.>
07:35:38 <goodger> you weren't using them before? that explains the jams :S
07:36:04 <WhiteRhino> Yeah. >.>
07:37:42 <WhiteRhino> So I'd use those on any major intersections too, right?
07:37:47 <dihedral> morning
07:37:54 <goodger> WhiteRhino: depends...
07:37:57 <goodger> morning, dihedral
07:38:08 <WhiteRhino> Like, don't enter the intersection if there's no exit from it?
07:38:16 * goodger wonders if any inhabitants of this channel have jobs
07:38:19 <goodger> WhiteRhino: yeah
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07:38:43 <dihedral> ? a few here do!
07:39:15 <goodger> they surprise me by being here at twenty to nine on a weekday morning, is all
07:40:12 <dihedral> ?
07:40:16 <goodger> I'm not aware of the age structure of most of them, so I can only presume they're of employment age
07:40:19 <dihedral> you start early, you get home early
07:40:21 <dihedral> at least i do
07:40:35 <goodger> dihedral: you're at work _now_?
07:40:39 <dihedral> yep
07:40:48 <dihedral> i have been since 0800
07:40:55 <goodger> this begs the question: why are you not working? :S
07:40:59 <dihedral> or 0755 to be precise
07:41:04 <dihedral> i am :-)
07:41:17 <goodger> you are employed to use IRC?
07:41:21 <goodger> can I have that job?
07:41:26 <dihedral> hehe
07:41:34 <dihedral> it's an awesome job
07:42:17 <goodger> oh?
07:43:04 <WhiteRhino> Okay, there we go. After all the money spent and trains rebuilt and signals finally fiddled with.. now I'm making some serious jink.
07:43:10 <goodger> hurrah
07:43:27 <goodger> and you have introduced me to a new synonym for money. congratulations
07:43:32 <WhiteRhino> While looking over my list of trains it went from $60k to $170k moneys.
07:43:42 <WhiteRhino> Hehe, I got it from Planescape: Torment.
07:43:49 <goodger> goodo
07:44:04 <WhiteRhino> Or you could call it Kopens, from Groo the Wanderer. =P
07:44:17 <goodger> yes, let's not go overboard
07:44:34 <goodger> dihedral: are you a BOFH?
07:49:03 <dihedral> no, goodger, i am no colleague of yours
07:49:39 <goodger> what other job allows you to spend time on IRC? :S
07:50:00 <goodger> and I'm not a BOFH, I own a publishing company (which does allow me to spend time on IRC)
07:50:47 <dihedral> lazy skunk!
07:51:05 <goodger> oh, yes, you wouldn't believe
07:51:54 <petern> cool
07:52:00 <goodger> I'm so lazy, I developed a business model that involves no actual books being touched at any time by me or my partner
07:52:10 <petern> what sort of work do you publish?
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07:54:55 <petern> "Scientists dismiess 'detox myth'"
07:54:56 <petern> haha :D
07:55:00 <petern> -e
07:55:12 <goodger> we will publish anything that will sell. to get our foot between the door and the frame, we are presently focusing on open-source project manuals (and have our first title being published later today, as it happens) --- once we've built up a portfolio of a few of those, which are great --- the mutual collaboration between us and the Scribus people for mutual benefit has been fantastic
07:55:33 <goodger> --- we will diversify
07:55:54 <dihedral> i thought you were just in the start phase
07:56:20 <goodger> we are. we're publishing our first title this afternoon
07:56:38 <goodger> the preorders have been relatively healthy throughout December, though
07:56:39 <dihedral> well - the best of british luck for that
07:56:47 <goodger> thank you
07:57:30 <WhiteRhino> Locks and canals are really expensive.
07:58:01 <goodger> WhiteRhino: yes, they are. this seems to be the developers punishing you for using them
07:59:46 <petern> yeah, everyone knows there are no canals
08:00:03 <petern> well
08:00:11 <petern> actually canals *were* really expensive
08:00:29 <WhiteRhino> I will become successful with ships. This, I command!
08:00:31 <petern> but then, so is track laying
08:00:37 <petern> and road building, no doubt
08:00:44 <goodger> yeah, but the profits that the real canals made were impossibly huge compared to the ones that can be achieved with OTTD
08:01:10 <petern> well they didn't have roads and rails for competition :)
08:01:48 <goodger> track is relatively easy to lay. dig a shallow trench, fill it with lumps of rock, drop a bit of wood on, bolt a ten-foot piece of metal to it, and clip the pieces of metal together
08:02:27 <goodger> unlike canals, which were really complex, or roads, which are really big
08:04:50 * goodger feels like his lungs have had an argument with his throat and are trying to eject the throat
08:05:40 <dihedral> rather ejecting the throat than the lungs...
08:06:14 <goodger> they're both rather important
08:06:26 <goodger> the throat is the one that actually hurts, though :P
08:06:31 <dihedral> yes - but lungs look nasty and they take longer to shove back in
08:07:12 <goodger> true. true
08:10:54 <goodger> the US version of The Office is intriguingly similar to the UK version
08:10:57 <goodger> they appear to have used the same script, but changed the words slightly
08:11:08 <goodger> they also seem to have cast actors who look the same as the British ones
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08:16:48 <dihedral> guess what
08:16:53 <dihedral> same for the german version!
08:17:07 <goodger> :)
08:17:17 <dihedral> and they went for the characters stupidity rather than looks here :-P
08:18:29 <goodger> hm
08:21:10 <goodger> I'm not sure what the point is
08:21:27 <dihedral> they have a german show rather than just dubbing it?
08:21:37 <goodger> if they were going to use the same scripts with the same characters, and actors who looked the same, why not just export directly to the US and dub for germany & france?
08:21:47 <goodger> yes, precisely
08:21:50 <dihedral> higher employment rate
08:21:52 <dihedral> :-P
08:22:05 <dihedral> at the cost of no extra script writer
08:22:07 <dihedral> + money
08:22:16 <dihedral> quick 'n easy
08:22:37 <goodger> hmm
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08:27:06 <goodger> I am also concerned that the Americans have removed the good jokes
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08:32:43 <enra> yay - got my new laptop - now i need to get all my ottd downloads again :(
08:34:23 <goodger> :)
08:35:33 <dihedral> enra, why not copy from your old laptop
08:36:23 <enra> it got fried and rotted the h/d - nothing there to copy anymore :(
08:36:28 <goodger> :S
08:36:36 <enra> but at least i'll have the latest ottd release now lol
08:36:54 <goodger> petern: a chance of further snow today
08:37:23 <enra> oh noes - i forgot i need the graphics files!
08:37:32 <petern> it's snowing a tiny bit still
08:37:45 <goodger> no snow here, but we might get some later on
08:37:49 <goodger> what's your postcode?
08:38:22 <petern> hp19 8te
08:38:50 <goodger> ah
08:39:39 <goodger> not too far from where I was born...
08:40:31 <goodger> and almost exactly 100 miles north of where I am now. no snow for me ATM
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08:49:34 <JdGordon> hey, whats the best way to build tracks where you have 3 or 4 tracks heading in the same direction but need to be able to let trains from any of those tracks head off to another line? (like )
08:51:36 <JdGordon> trains are apparently not very cooperative so those X's mean trains will sometimes cross to another track blocking others instead of going straight ahead
08:52:32 <goodger> try removing some signals so that the trains do not pass through more than one signal at a time
08:52:40 <goodger> that usually helps when fixing blockages
08:53:03 <goodger> e.g. if your train is 7 tiles long, place the signal 8 tiles apart
08:54:46 <dihedral> JdGordon, have a look at, specifically the junctions, public server archive games, and SML
08:55:34 <WhiteRhino> Man, it's 4am already.
08:56:18 <goodger> WhiteRhino: 9am here... :P
08:56:47 <WhiteRhino> Showoff. ;)
08:57:10 <JdGordon> goodger: removing signals after the junction doesnt seem to have helped.. but that could be because that section is badly done
08:57:15 <JdGordon> dihedral: thanks.. ill have a look
08:58:14 <goodger> hmm
09:00:48 <WhiteRhino> Whew, my boats are making a profit.
09:01:12 <goodger> you could put a type 3 presignal immediately after each exit from the X structure and then a type 2 presignal 8 tiles later, so that the trains can guarantee they will always be able to clear the structure
09:04:39 <petern> i return
09:04:48 <petern> for i am now at the lovely place called... the office
09:05:00 <goodger> huzzah
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09:05:16 <petern> 100 miles north? you're on the isle of wight?
09:05:56 <goodger> no, southeast cornwall
09:07:41 <petern> oh right, not directly north :)
09:08:03 <petern> it's snowing a bit more now
09:08:15 <petern> typical that it snows on the fast day of work, heh
09:08:25 <goodger> and 100 miles directly south of you is 20 miles south of Wight
09:08:31 <goodger> heh
09:08:39 <petern> i did wonder
09:08:40 <goodger> it's always gloriously sunny on school says
09:08:44 <goodger> *days
09:08:54 <petern> er, s/fast/first/
09:09:01 <goodger> yes
09:09:41 <petern> it's about 90-100 miles to my parents near portsmouth, but that involves 15-20 miles west/east at both ends
09:10:58 <goodger> *nod*
09:11:18 * petern mumbles about london-centric transport routes
09:11:31 <petern> it's worse on the train of course
09:12:15 <goodger> you're a good 250 miles to my town...
09:12:31 <goodger> and good luck getting the train. I think there's one train per day from london that stops here
09:13:23 <goodger> muttering about london-centric transport routes is deserved
09:16:07 <goodger> going to canterbury from here involves going to london, even by car (!)
09:16:11 <goodger> sodding M25
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09:28:18 <petern> yeah
09:28:22 <petern> they should continue the M27
09:30:17 <WhiteRhino> Gah. I just accidentally dropped two and a half mil on a -tunnel-.
09:31:27 <goodger> WhiteRhino: better than an automotive industry bailout
09:31:40 <JdGordon> hmm... fixing those X's with tunnels on the 2 inner tracks seems to work better
09:32:09 <WhiteRhino> Oh! Snap.
09:32:46 <petern> maybe the A303 could be made a motorway
09:32:57 <petern> although that ends up going to london anyway
09:33:45 <goodger> petern: extending the M3 to exeter would be welcome, but would crush quite a lot of pretty countryside
09:34:55 <petern> but the M3 has its lovely twyford down cutting
09:34:56 <petern> *grumbles*
09:34:57 <WhiteRhino> Awesomely, the only train not making any money anymore is the one that's just transferring goods from one station to another as opposed to unloading them. THings seem to be working now.
09:35:04 <petern> should've built a tunnel
09:35:21 <WhiteRhino> Be careful with tunnels. =P
09:35:58 <JdGordon> are you guys playing with AI and breakdowns enabled?
09:35:59 <goodger> petern: taking the M5 to bristol and transferring to the M4 is only 20 minutes longer than the A303 without congestion anyway, and the A303 is usually very congested
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09:37:02 <petern> yeah
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09:37:47 <goodger> but I suspect extending the M3 to exeter would cut the journey time quite a lot
09:38:05 <goodger> of course, a bridge connecting exeter and canterbury would be best.
09:38:24 <dihedral> JdGordon, people here play differently!
09:38:38 <JdGordon> obviously...
09:38:42 <dihedral> everybody has a certain style of playing, some play with breakdowns, some don't
09:39:10 <dihedral> you can even find people in the forums who like playing with the ai
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09:39:18 <petern> the M3 is already further east than it should be
09:39:19 <dihedral> you find a better ai in the noai branch
09:39:25 <petern> you need an M3x, heh
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09:44:09 <WhiteRhino> $400k per year with each of my two planes. =D
09:44:33 <goodger> planes == cheating... too easy to make colossal profits without bothering
09:44:51 <WhiteRhino> I tosssed in a couple airports mostly so I could have money coming in on all four fronts.
09:46:40 <WhiteRhino> Right now have a 528 rating.
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09:48:15 <goodger> a what?
09:49:45 <WhiteRhino> Detailed Performance Rating.
09:49:51 <WhiteRhino> Under the trophy button.
09:53:22 <WhiteRhino> What year is Monorail?
09:53:43 <goodger> monorail has evaporated, it seems, in recent years, in favour of electric rail
09:53:48 <goodger> maglev appears c. 2010
09:54:05 <WhiteRhino> 1972 right now, started in 1950.
09:54:12 <JdGordon> monorail is 1999
09:55:06 <goodger> that's too late IMO
09:55:19 <goodger> the simpsons features a monorail in 1992
09:55:37 <JdGordon> yeah, also its annoying changing over to maglev so shortly after
09:55:45 <LordNokon> good day everyone
09:55:59 <WhiteRhino> Do you guys tend to switch everything to the latest innovation or only specific lines?
09:56:00 <LordNokon> how do i edit a save game, to add more factories and industries
09:56:06 <goodger> it's not necessary to switch to maglev immediately
09:56:09 <petern> monorail in ottd is pointless
09:56:19 <JdGordon> its nice for the speedup
09:56:20 <goodger> WhiteRhino: I personally use the date-change cheat to keep it in 2008
09:56:40 <WhiteRhino> I know not of this cheat.
09:56:55 <goodger> hit ctrl-alt-c
09:57:44 <WhiteRhino> Well, dang. Ooh.. now that I've saved, wonder what would happen if I switched climate.
09:58:49 <LordNokon> ??
09:58:54 <goodger> it won't thank you for it, but it won't crash
09:59:33 <goodger> LordNokon: you can pretty much only edit the savegames by playing the game. there are facilities available in-game to build new industries
09:59:38 <WhiteRhino> My singular lines seem to work well, but I doubt that the iron ore -> steel -> goods deal will work right.
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10:00:27 <WhiteRhino> Okay, I'm done screwing around. =P Bedtime for me. G'night everybody.
10:00:33 <goodger> night
10:00:45 <Rubidium> morning ;)
10:00:50 <goodger> ...yeah
10:00:59 <petern> oops, just scared the boss a little
10:01:03 <WhiteRhino> Bah. It's night for me 'cus I'm waking up at noon.
10:02:24 <WhiteRhino> Before I go, though, I say Monorail should hit around 1990. That's decently far away from both Electric and Maglev, and if the Simpsons built one in 1992 and the monorail guy had built similar systems in three other towns, then we could safely assume he visited them around 1990 given the time taken to build said monorails.
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10:02:53 <WhiteRhino> Plus it'd give monorail more a reason to be used if it's a longer wait between it and maglev. *shrug* My two cents.
10:03:11 <JdGordon> maglev shuold be further out also...
10:03:30 <goodger> JdGordon: not necessarily. maglevs were in use c. 2005
10:03:43 <WhiteRhino> Maybe 2015 or 2020. Further on but not so far that games ending in 2050 will think it's not worthwihle.
10:04:10 <JdGordon> goodger: only on test tracks...
10:04:18 <JdGordon> and theme parks
10:04:47 <WhiteRhino> 20-30 years between would be good for me. Then again.. *cough* I've never played a map long enough to see maglev before.
10:05:43 <goodger> nah, it was running on an airport in china
10:05:45 <goodger> WhiteRhino: the game (without newgrfs) effectively ends in 1995 because this is as far into the future as MPS could be bothered to imagine
10:05:45 <goodger> with newgrfs it lasts until 2015 because this is as far into the future as newgrf authors could be bothered to imagine
10:06:09 <LordNokon> goodger - so i cant add more coals mines etc etc by editing my save game
10:06:23 <WhiteRhino> Not necessarily. Once you get to 2050 or so you could always start a new map in Toyland using the Mars graphics. >.>
10:06:32 <goodger> LordNokon: nope
10:07:02 <WhiteRhino> Then just play like it's going from 2050 to 3050 or something.
10:07:27 <goodger> unfortunately the trains only have set lifespans
10:07:42 <goodger> so you will eventually be unable to buy any more trains because the designs have expired
10:08:05 <WhiteRhino> Really? So the game can't like... continue forever unless you reverse the year?
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10:08:12 <petern> there's no second hand market
10:08:26 <petern> the last lot of engines will last forever
10:09:08 <goodger> WhiteRhino: in fact, reversing the year doesn't reintroduce expired vehicles
10:09:37 <petern> reverse the year then resetengines :D
10:10:10 <WhiteRhino> How do you reset engines? >.> And if you reverse until 1950 or something, won't engines be reintroduced in whatever year they'd come out?
10:12:49 <WhiteRhino> Anyway, bed is calling me. >.< I'll be back tomorrow. Seeya.
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10:15:45 <LordNokon> goodger there is way, found it
10:16:07 <LordNokon> rename your save game to the .src file edit what you want to do and rename it to .sav
10:16:46 <goodger> ah
10:16:47 <goodger> well done
10:17:49 <LordNokon> thanks
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11:08:22 <LordNokon> when building tunnels no traffic ligths can be placed inside the tunnels correct or not??
11:08:40 <qball> no you cannot place signals inside the tunnel
11:08:43 <enra> correct
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11:10:00 <Wolf01> hello
11:10:28 <goodger> hello Wolf01
11:11:18 <enra> hi
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11:43:00 <TrueBrain> lalalala
11:43:23 <Wolf01> dum de-dum
11:44:23 <goodger> tumptitum
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11:59:22 <petern> pomtepom
12:01:11 <edeca> Ooh, musical
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12:10:18 <Wolf01> somebody should make a score for openttd, we already have 4 songs, and Belugas could play the music with the guitar!
12:10:21 * Wolf01 hides
12:12:13 <petern> that's not four songs
12:12:19 <petern> that's a single phrase from a song
12:13:20 <petern> stupid idea... record the ttd songs as sung by people
12:22:38 <edeca> Does anybody here listen to the music?
12:23:15 <TrueBrain> I always do ...
12:23:40 <edeca> Crazy ;)
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12:25:52 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14844 /extra/strgen/ [strgen] -Change: make only look at the important files for recompiling strgen.
12:25:53 <blathijs> Playing openttd without the original music feels wrong :-)
12:26:15 <TrueBrain> hi blathijs :)
12:26:41 <blathijs> hey TrueBrain
12:27:20 <TrueBrain> how are you my friend?
12:29:22 <blathijs> Busy, as always :-)
12:29:36 <TrueBrain> no suprise there ;)
12:29:58 <blathijs> Spent some part of my christmas break hacking on backupninja, a backup tool that is pretty useful, but not quite perfect yet :-)
12:30:15 <TrueBrain> and succeeded?
12:31:09 <blathijs> still ongoing :-)
12:31:23 <blathijs> But I managed to stir some life in the mailing list, so that's good
12:32:10 <TrueBrain> hehe :)
12:32:30 <edeca> Bah, why did saveload stuff get split out into a different directory ;)
12:32:41 <TrueBrain> why not?
12:32:45 <TrueBrain> should have been done years ago
12:33:03 <edeca> Yeah, but I just modified the copypaste patch last night to remove all the saveload stuff from saveload.cpp :P
12:33:06 <dihedral> probably because it breaks some patches :-P
12:33:09 <dihedral> hehe
12:33:25 <edeca> At least I *removed* it though
12:37:50 * petern ponders resyncing railtypes
12:38:01 <TrueBrain> go for it ;)
12:38:25 <petern> actually i could just tidy it up and then commit
12:39:08 * TrueBrain ponders cleaning up his NoAI patches and commit them
12:39:20 <TrueBrain> they are created around NAIL, but not really depending on that fact ..
12:39:25 <petern> well
12:39:29 <petern> Rubidium mentioned branching 0.7
12:40:09 <petern> but i don't know how soon he had in mind
12:40:21 <TrueBrain> I want NoAI to be trunk-tested for at least 1 month, so it won't be in 0.7 anyway :)
12:40:22 <petern> there should be a bug-fix-freeze before that though
12:40:45 <TrueBrain> it is more something to trunk-commit just after a branch ;)
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12:41:36 <petern> heh, no conflicts
12:41:41 <petern> cargodest'll be different...
12:41:49 <TrueBrain> then your patch is not complicated enough ;)
12:41:53 <petern> it's not!
12:42:02 <petern> it has no savegame changes, incredibly
12:42:19 <petern> it might need a bump just to prevent incompatibleness
12:42:43 <petern> maybe it needs yet another patch option, hah
12:46:12 <Yexo> petern: what is the current status of railtypes anyway?
12:46:22 <edeca> What are railtypes? :\
12:46:31 <petern> types of rail
12:46:53 <Yexo> edeca: it's a branch allowing newgrfs to create more than the default 4 rail types
12:46:54 <petern> Yexo, working but not tidied up or benchmarked
12:47:14 <petern> and someone had a request to allow removal of the existing types
12:47:19 <edeca> Yexo: Ah I get it
12:47:26 <petern> though i can't remember who
12:47:35 <petern> or if it's sensible
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12:47:44 <Yexo> why would the existing types be removed?
12:47:51 <petern> i don't know really
12:48:13 <Yexo> they could just be hidden if there are no vehicles for them
12:48:18 <petern> they would be
12:48:58 <petern> should i try syncing cargodest? hehe
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12:52:51 <Wolf01> WTF!
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12:53:15 <Wolf01> stupid server, stop disconnecting me... I'm not a train
12:53:23 <TrueBrain> lol :)
12:53:33 <petern> !disconnecting wolf01
12:53:37 <Wolf01> shhhhh
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12:56:48 <Wolf01> gah... dsl problems... not again :(
12:56:53 <TrueBrain> he collects Guests ;)
12:57:25 <Wolf01> maybe it's because I'm connected for a month with the same ip address?
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12:57:55 <TrueBrain> you no longer are :)
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13:37:05 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14845 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (22 files): [NoAI] -Codechange: make 'char *' as return type a const
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14:06:49 <Belugas> OpenTTD song on distorsion... would sound strange...
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14:10:46 <TrueBrain> you think? :p
14:11:21 <goodger> I think some of the original songs would be quite good if arranged for decent instruments
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14:12:29 <lobster_MB> latest OS X UB nightly crashes whenever i try to access the advanced settings screen
14:12:36 <lobster_MB> should i report this or what?
14:12:49 <goodger> probably a good idea
14:13:13 <TrueBrain> and in some way you just did ;)
14:13:25 <goodger> yeah..
14:13:34 <Yexo> lobster_MB: that is fixed in 14839 most likely
14:13:56 <lobster_MB> aye - thanks Yexo
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14:28:15 <matias> who has tought AI to make roads and rails?
14:28:27 <matias> it's just horrible
14:28:30 <bleepy> a chimp
14:28:44 <matias> a lot of terraforming and still roads are going zig zag
14:29:17 <edeca> Haha, us Brits will resist STR_EURO_INTRODUCE :)
14:29:57 <bleepy> europeans? where?
14:29:58 * bleepy loas rifle
14:30:03 <edeca> bleepy: On your lawn.
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14:30:13 <bleepy> marvellous, close range target practice!
14:30:37 <edeca> bleepy: No headshots though, make it slow
14:31:55 <Yexo> matias: the AI is still the same as the original TTD AI
14:32:05 <Yexo> download NoAI if you want a decent AI
14:32:20 <bleepy> :/
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14:40:09 <goodger> edeca: gordon brown's criterion for joining the eurozone is that GBP must be worth >1 EUR
14:40:20 <goodger> at this rate, we will be printing our first euro banknotes next week
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14:40:39 <goodger> 1 EUR must be worth >1 GBP, rather
14:40:47 <LordNokon> i take it there's no way to copy a station layout and past it on anohter part of the map withou recreating the hole thing??
14:41:00 <Yexo> not unless you play with the copy-paste patch
14:41:16 <LordNokon> which is what version
14:41:26 <Yexo> no idea, take a look at the forums
14:47:18 <Aali> you shouldn't use copy-paste though
14:48:11 <Aali> just build another station layout
14:48:17 <Aali> don't spoil the fun
14:49:43 <Belugas> yeah
14:49:53 <Belugas> lazyness...
14:50:53 <LordNokon> having to build a 1000 station the same way take a very very long time
14:51:20 <edeca> LordNokon: It's trunk :)
14:51:26 <edeca> But it doesn't copy newgrf stations yet
14:51:42 <edeca> Basically because you can walk stations, so the copypaste patch would rely on distant-join stations patch
14:51:52 <edeca> However, all other features of copypaste work dandily ;)
14:52:20 <petern> burp
14:52:46 <edeca> LordNokon: if you want to check out, I've not updated the forum post yet
14:52:59 <edeca> goodger: Heh, you mean we can't have banknotes with Queeny any more? :(
14:55:03 <LordNokon> edeca which one should i use
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14:57:12 <edeca> LordNokon: Like I said above, it doesn't currently copy stations.
14:57:29 <edeca> LordNokon: So it probably wont help you. Do you run linux or windows? And do you build yourself or install?
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15:00:16 <Belugas> or copy/paste?
15:00:20 <Belugas> hihihih
15:00:23 <edeca> Haha
15:00:28 * edeca gives Belugas a cookie
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15:03:11 <edeca> LordNokon: However, it should be possible to add station copying with the exception of "walked" stations
15:03:37 <edeca> LordNokon: But it will add the complexity that if you copy a newgrf station and paste it in a game without that newgrf loaded, what do you do?
15:04:45 <Yexo> edeca: simple, just use the default station instead
15:04:57 <edeca> Yexo: Yeah, that's one solution
15:05:05 <edeca> Yexo: I prefer randomly bulldozing expensive tiles ;)
15:05:25 <edeca> Yexo: Or generating an error dialog for every tile that fails
15:07:20 <LordNokon> edeca you totaly lost me, i have no idea what you are talking about.
15:07:26 <edeca> LordNokon: Cheese.
15:07:30 <edeca> LordNokon: Plenty of cheese.
15:07:40 <LordNokon> lol
15:08:05 <edeca> Basically there is a copy and paste patch. It isn't in the official source, but does work with the latest version.
15:08:10 <edeca> However, it wont help you copy stations.
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15:08:28 <LordNokon> why
15:08:41 <petern> why why, delilah
15:09:30 <edeca> Because it doesn't know how to copy stations at the moment
15:09:47 <LordNokon> ok makes sense
15:09:55 * edeca wonders what the functions are for getting station tiles
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15:12:57 <edeca> If compiled under cygwin, does the resulting exe depend on cygwin DLLs?
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15:19:43 <glx> theorically no as the -mno-cygwin flag is used
15:20:07 <edeca> Excellent, thanks
15:20:17 <glx> but it's easy to verify :)
15:20:48 <edeca> Heh, without deleting cygwin.dll? :P
15:20:55 <TrueBrain> rename it
15:21:07 <edeca> Yeah, that is a good idea.
15:21:24 <edeca> Or I could check check the linking info
15:21:35 <TrueBrain> inconclusive :)
15:22:21 <glx> and it's cygwin-1.dll ;)
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15:46:05 <Progman> got the DEBUG( makro a placeholder for a string by a given string-id?
15:55:04 <joachim> will autorenew turn off old vehicle warnings?
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15:56:47 <petern> no
15:57:17 <petern> it might cause vehicles to be renewed, which would then stop vehicles being old, which would then not issue old vehicle warnings
15:57:26 <petern> but in itself it does not 'turn off' old vehicle warnings
15:57:53 <joachim> ok
15:58:19 <joachim> do you know how old a vehicle is for the game to start warning?
15:59:11 <petern> depends on the vehicle
15:59:14 <petern> it tells you
15:59:49 <joachim> i want a warning before it's autorenew
16:00:01 <joachim> ed
16:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the first warning is lifetime - 12 months, the default for autorenew is lifetime - 6 months
16:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have 6 months time to react
16:02:20 <joachim> i set lifetime to +12 months
16:03:22 <joachim> cause i don't think i'm getting warned
16:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you changed the message settings?
16:04:25 <joachim> no, it's all good
16:04:43 <joachim> maybe daylength patch screws it up? autorenew doesn't seem to trigger either
16:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> daylength should have no influence to lifetime and autorenew
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16:05:41 <joachim> ok, i have buses that are 18 (max 10)
16:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they can't find path to depot?
16:08:21 <joachim> no, i don't think that's it
16:08:39 <joachim> my oldest trains are 19/20 now, no warning
16:08:51 <joachim> will see if they are renew
16:09:48 <Progman> <>, what do you think? it sets the number of town/industrie generation in the editor always to the lowest amount (index 0 for towns, index 1 for industries) instead of using the current/last game setting
16:13:19 <joachim> renewed*
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16:38:28 <joachim> Eddi|zuHause: disabling "warn if vehicle is late" also disable the age warning :)
16:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> err... that is obviously a bug or a wrongly synced patch
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16:46:03 <gynter> hello, does anyone know why I have Pikka's Basic Industries all cargo rates 0€ ?
16:46:21 <gynter> OpenTTD 0.6.3, latest PBI
16:46:46 <Aali> ...
16:46:52 <SmatZ> gynter: because you added the GRF after game initialization?
16:47:02 <Aali> you missed the big red warning sign?
16:47:09 <gynter> no?
16:47:14 <SmatZ> then I don't know
16:47:31 <gynter> all grfs are read correctly (are green) and industries works
16:47:35 <gynter> but only payment rates are 0
16:47:43 <yorick> yes
16:47:51 <yorick> but did you add it ingame or in the menu?
16:48:13 <gynter> client or server?
16:48:28 <gynter> In client I added it from menu, in server I added it to scenario from ediotr
16:48:31 <gynter> editor *
16:49:02 <yorick> yep, then there's your problem
16:49:12 <yorick> you can't add newcargoes grfs from inside the game/editor
16:49:15 <SmatZ> you have to add GRFs in the main menu, not in the game nor scenario editor
16:49:40 <gynter> But how I could add new grf to scenario then?
16:49:51 <yorick> nightlies support the feature
16:49:55 <gynter> since If i add it to server conf it'll only read scenario ones
16:49:59 <yorick> and you need to add it before create the server
16:49:59 <gynter> hmm
16:49:59 <SmatZ> trunk behaves better, it resets economy after newgrf changes (I thought it has been backported to 0.6 :-/
16:50:05 <yorick> the scen*
16:50:42 <Aali> gynter: set the right GRFs from the main menu before you create the scenario
16:50:48 <gynter> I did
16:50:57 <gynter> no i didn't
16:50:59 <gynter> thanks :)
16:51:09 <gynter> i'll try that
16:51:20 <gynter> but, then i'll have to make new scenario?
16:51:43 <Aali> basically, yes
16:51:58 <gynter> thats sad, but if it works then its worth of it :)
16:52:03 <gynter> k, gona test this
16:52:05 <gynter> bye
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16:52:48 <yorick> (or he just uses ammlers reseteconomy patch)
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17:11:04 <Wolf01> nice... I just found that some vehicles can skip queues at roadstops by passing the queued vehicles like ghosts
17:12:30 <petern> road vehicle queueing (with quantum effects)
17:12:36 <petern> that's the quantum effects bit
17:12:41 <goodger> actually, they just overtake... ¬.¬
17:13:14 <petern> in some cases they don't, they just move through
17:14:11 <goodger> ah
17:14:15 <goodger> I wish they did that more often
17:15:16 <petern> i wish i had food
17:16:56 <Aali> well, if you keep enough RVs trying to go the same place (and the road is blocked so they have to stop), they will eventually end up inside each other
17:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i wish i had a not so close deadline
17:17:36 <Aali> good stuff when you stack 100 RVs at a level crossing and then crash them all at once
17:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you are insane.
17:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause> why is there no "ignore local authorities" cheat?
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17:25:21 <Belugas> well ... i was a bit inclined to add it, but some users insisted so much on making it a setting that it switched my good will totally off
17:25:32 <Belugas> and not a cheat, may i add
17:26:01 <petern> a setting? hahaa
17:26:05 <petern> definitely a cheat
17:26:24 <Belugas> indeed
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17:35:24 <Wolf01> uhm, RV are less stupid, did you touched anything?
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17:36:25 <Aali> less stupid in what way?
17:36:47 <Wolf01> now they use all the four roadstops in a claw-style vehicle station
17:37:23 <Aali> a what now?
17:37:55 <Wolf01> rephrase
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17:38:37 <Aali> what is this claw style you speak of?
17:39:24 <Wolf01> ___/_/_/
17:39:38 <Belugas> their tires change themselves in claws and just try to dismantle any vehicles passing by
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17:41:12 <goodger> :)
17:44:41 <yorick> they got multistop?
17:45:07 <Wolf01> no, a single stop for each lane
17:45:48 <Wolf01> or the second one will get blocked if it finish to load before the first one
17:45:54 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14846 /trunk/ (docs/HOWTO_compile_lang_files.txt readme.txt): -Doc: strgen hasn't been part of the trunk/release binaries for quite a while, so point to the precompiled strgen package instead.
17:49:15 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14847 /trunk/src/ (map.cpp map_func.h): -Codechange: generalise the circular search to search around a rectangle (PhilSophus)
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17:53:47 <fjb> Hello
17:54:38 <SmatZ> hello
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18:40:25 <petern> Belugas, how did you get tortoisesvn to work with ssh?
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18:43:01 <Belugas> can tell you that tonigh, form home :)
18:43:04 <Belugas> from
18:43:15 <Belugas> but it si very simple, from what i recall
18:43:47 <petern> yeah, what i read was simple but didn't work :(
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18:44:30 <Belugas> iirc, it requires chanching the config file on Doc and Settings\USER\Application Data\Subversion
18:44:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r14848 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:44:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-05 18:44:14
18:44:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 11 fixed by Alrich (11)
18:44:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 19 fixed, 21 changed by khaloofah (40)
18:44:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: danish - 40 fixed, 1 changed by ThomasA (41)
18:44:57 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed, 25 changed by Excel20 (27)
18:44:59 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: hebrew - 8 fixed by EScake (8)
18:45:11 <Belugas> ssh = plink.exe (here at work). I believe there is a tortoise equivalent
18:45:29 <petern> hmm
18:47:54 <petern> "Disconnected: No supported authenticatin methods available :o
18:48:00 <Belugas> yeah...
18:48:08 <Belugas> got that quite oftenly
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18:50:36 <Belugas> and once i've been able to get it right, i had to recreate all my repos
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19:03:20 <glx> IIRC tortoise needs pagent
19:03:45 <glx> but I never used it :)
19:04:11 <Belugas> yup, it does
19:04:53 <glx> and stored connection name may matter
19:05:08 <petern> according to what i read i don't need it :o
19:05:12 <Belugas> i've got it setup on my quick launch, so i only need to click on it once. The key file is passed as parameter and the paraphrase pops up
19:05:50 <Belugas> name connection... nope, i don't recall seeing it as a matter
19:06:21 <petern> i'm trying named connection indeed
19:06:28 <Belugas> it's not reuired as per say, petern, but you'll be prompted for credential whenever you try doing stuff
19:07:00 <petern> which is fine
19:07:10 * petern tries with pageant anyway
19:07:43 <petern> doesn't work :(
19:08:15 <petern> bah, i can't see what's going on the server side either
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19:10:20 <petern> pageant + putty works
19:12:44 <petern> when i tell it to use plink a plink.exe cmd window pops up but nothing more :o
19:14:54 <Belugas> mmh.... I remember sending my public key over
19:15:29 <petern> yeah, i have that
19:15:33 <petern> putty logs in fine
19:15:43 <petern> for a normal login session
19:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can i change the resolution of a running windows without seeing anything on the monitor?
19:16:29 <petern> yes
19:16:36 <petern> if you're really lucky
19:17:12 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i could do it back then when i only saw gibberish when the resolution was too high, but my flatscreen monitor doesn't do that...
19:17:13 <petern> you know what pisses me off?
19:17:20 <petern> blog posts that say "day/month"
19:17:23 <petern> with no year
19:17:26 <petern> POINTLESS
19:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the key for getting into the windows boot menu?
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19:21:36 <insulfrog> hi
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19:22:07 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: iirc it's F8
19:22:24 <Yexo> is there an easy way to get msvc to create a, like make bundle_zip does from within cygwin?
19:23:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that worked
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19:40:35 <petern> anyone with admin on secure?
19:43:46 <Belugas> not me
19:43:56 <Belugas> Rubidium and TrueBrain are the only ones. i believe
19:47:23 <Belugas> not nice... i still have one ear completely blocked by this infection i caugh. so listening to music is...not enjoyable
19:51:42 <petern> urgbh
19:54:34 <Eddi|zuHause> bah, handling two computers with two keyboards and one monitor is... annoying
19:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> especially i can't get that second computer to choose a widescreen resolution
20:01:41 <Rubidium> petern: what do you need?
20:01:56 <petern> i can't tell if this thing is even attempting to login :/
20:02:25 <petern> tortoisesvn + ssh that is
20:03:26 <Rubidium> petern: last ssh session is from 19:07 UTC
20:03:34 <Rubidium> so roughly one hour ago
20:03:39 <petern> no failed logins? :o
20:04:14 <Rubidium> no
20:06:04 <Eddi|zuHause> argh... fuck this...
20:06:13 <Eddi|zuHause> how can i remote login into windows from linux?
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20:06:39 <petern> hmm, ttdpatch uses two bytes to store rv max speed
20:06:55 <petern> one for old and one for new
20:07:02 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: in the "old" age there was a telnet server installed with Windows
20:07:09 <petern> use rdesktop?
20:07:32 <Eddi|zuHause> preferably graphical, and preferably using the preinstalled windows remote stuff
20:07:35 <petern> i can store it in one uint16 but grfs may assume they can set the new then the old, which'll work differently
20:07:47 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then definitely rdesktop
20:07:48 <petern> so should i just create another uint8 for a new max speed?
20:08:09 <Ctibor> Eddi|zuHause: krdc supports remote desktop
20:09:21 <petern> hmm, does krdc support ssl?
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20:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think i crashed it...
20:13:10 <petern> heh, silly programming... it keeps the lower byte so why didn't they make the new byte just the high part of a word instead of a different value in different units?
20:15:01 <Eddi|zuHause> how can i disable the tabs in krdc?
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20:20:10 <petern> meh, two separate values is annoying :/
20:20:37 <frosch123> what defines, which value is used?
20:21:26 <frosch123> or is the new one only used when "realistic acceleration" is on?
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20:22:43 <petern> in ttdpatch, yes
20:23:16 <Belugas> an array then?
20:23:30 <petern> i want to make it always use the new speed if it's set, but we can't assume the new speed is set after the old speed format
20:23:53 <petern> otherwise it'd be much simpler to just increase the max speed to uint16
20:24:18 <frosch123> I do not understand why you want to store both, isn't it already known which will be used on grf load?
20:24:34 <petern> is it?
20:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> mäh... internet access on the work pc at home isn't as fast as internet access on the work pc at work...
20:26:00 <petern> it is not known which order they will be in the grf file
20:26:17 <petern> so if you only store one, it could be replaced by the old format later
20:26:37 <frosch123> "When setting property 15, always set property 08 as well, so that the vehicle works reasonably well whether realistic acceleration is turned on or off. If property 15 is not set, the value from property 08 is used instead." <- does that mean, first setting prop 15 and then 8, that the value of 8 will override 15?
20:27:04 <petern> if we store it in the same place, yes
20:27:15 <frosch123> or does it initialiue 15 with zero or something like that to detect whether it has been set?
20:27:31 <frosch123> I was asking for TTDP behaviour :)
20:27:49 <petern> ttdpatch stores them separately, and presumably defaults to 0 for prop 15
20:27:55 <petern> if 0 use prop 8
20:28:58 <petern> one possibility is to abuse one of the misc flags, i think
20:29:00 <frosch123> so you only need to know whether property 15 has already been set during loading?
20:29:04 <petern> yes
20:29:05 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14849 /trunk/src/pbs.cpp: -Fix [FS#2478]: A train meeting its end could lead to an endless loop.
20:29:10 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14850 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2503]: Reversing a stuck train that is then not stuck anymore did not always reset the waiting timer.
20:29:13 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14851 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: A train reversing in a non-PBS block can't be stuck.
20:29:16 <Rubidium> petern: what about adding a static SmallMap<EngineID, uint16> _rv_new_speed and storing stuff into there (for new RVs)
20:29:19 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14852 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Feature: Automatic reversing in front of block signals can now be disabled by setting pf.wait_oneway_signal respectively pf.wait_twoway_signal to 255.
20:29:25 <frosch123> isn't the engine data already stored in some temporary array?
20:29:32 <Rubidium> then when the GRF are loaded check in the map
20:29:43 <petern> Rubidium... hmm, possible
20:29:58 <Wolf01> !feature!
20:30:03 <Rubidium> IIRC it already happens for something else too
20:30:06 <petern> that would make the rest of the code much simpler
20:30:33 <petern> :D
20:30:36 <petern> thanks
20:30:40 <DaleStan> I think the question is: If speed is non-zero, was that speed set by prop 08 or prop 15?
20:31:04 <petern> oh, hang on
20:31:09 <petern> frosch123: you're right
20:31:14 <petern> there's a GRFTempEngineData struct
20:31:18 <petern> i could just put it in there
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20:31:37 <DaleStan> If the speed was set by prop 15 (and realistic acceleration is on) then further prop 08s must not overwrite that value.
20:31:47 <petern> DaleStan, yes, we know that :)
20:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: how about, instead of reversing on a PBS signal, look both ways for a new path, after the waiting timeout?
20:32:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and then reverse if a path in the other direction has been found
20:32:34 <SpearmintRhino> how about allowing combined through/terminus stations
20:32:45 <SpearmintRhino> so that a train checks it can leave a platform before it enters it
20:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause> should essentially be calling the pathfinder from the rear vehicle
20:33:09 <Eddi|zuHause> SpearmintRhino: not as easy as it sounds
20:33:17 <SpearmintRhino> course it is
20:33:21 <SpearmintRhino> you're just not trying hard enough
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20:33:37 <Rubidium> SpearmintRhino: no YOU are not trying hard enough
20:33:50 <SpearmintRhino> :(
20:34:09 <Rubidium> 'cause if you would be trying hard enough you'd already have a patch for it
20:34:19 <Eddi|zuHause> SpearmintRhino: getting the train to pick the through platform is not too difficult, PBS already has such a lookahead, but getting the reversing train to pick the terminal platform?
20:34:32 <Rubidium> written by yourself ofcourse
20:34:34 <Alberth> or have come to the conclusion that it is less easy than it sounds :)
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20:34:44 <SpearmintRhino> Eddi|zuHause: the reverser can pick any
20:34:49 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: maybe later, but it's certainly more work than just adding a == 255 :)
20:34:51 <SpearmintRhino> the through train needs a through platform
20:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> SpearmintRhino: yes, but deciding that a train should reverse?
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20:35:57 <Rubidium> then there's the issue of: what is a through train and what is a train that is going to reverse
20:36:15 <Rubidium> with conditional orders that can be unknown at the moment you want to enter the station
20:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i was trying to say
20:37:08 <Fantasya> Hi guys. happy new year! c novi godom! frohes neues jahr! laimingu naujuju metu!
20:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you are like 5 days late...
20:37:48 <petern> better late than never?
20:38:12 <petern> right, _gted works :D
20:38:21 <Fantasya> yea sure. better late :P
20:38:35 <petern> bit of a 'waste' because only RVs need that extra byte, but it's temporary data anyway
20:39:47 <Fantasya> I want to wish you all good income, more maglev constructions :)
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20:44:14 <Alberth> Fantasya: well, less is not possible. I didn't construct any maglev last year
20:44:22 <Belugas> How could you forget "Bonne Anne" ????
20:44:26 <Belugas> SHAME ON YOU!
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20:49:53 <Alberth> Belugas:
20:50:28 <petern>
20:50:58 <petern> (using the multistep movement code from trains)
20:51:16 <Belugas> hehe
20:52:28 <glx> Belugas: wrong encoding :)
20:52:33 <Fantasya> Hu guys again :)
20:52:38 <Fantasya> hi*
20:53:13 <Belugas> glx, i can guess. I'm not totally fully re-installed on this new pc :(
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20:56:26 <Belugas> seems like quite decent, petern
20:58:59 <Swallow> Is it possible/allowed to change the window number of an open window?
21:00:01 <Wolf01> hey I have an idea: be able to build stations with at least 2 full foundations on the tile (the tile with only one corner raised... I need to put buffers on these tiles :P)
21:00:56 <frosch123> you mean steep slopes?
21:00:57 <Swallow> Never mind, I will use a different solution..
21:01:43 <Wolf01> no, not steep slopes those are 2 foundations high
21:01:49 <glx> why would you change window number Swallow ?
21:02:11 <frosch123> Wolf01: then I guess you want to remove the slope checks for non-track-station tiles :)
21:02:25 <glx> usually window number contains info about what is displayed in the window
21:02:28 <petern> Wolf01, nope
21:02:32 <Wolf01> why not?
21:03:04 <petern> no-one's written it :p
21:03:06 <glx> Wolf01: what happens if you remove the station grf?
21:03:10 <petern> originally the argument was that
21:03:17 <petern> but then what happens if you remove a vehicle grf? ;)
21:03:31 <glx> station != vehicle :)
21:03:53 <Wolf01> uhm... so we should allow track tiles too
21:03:56 <glx> fallback stuff is in the spec for them
21:03:59 <Wolf01> problem resolved
21:04:00 <Wolf01> :D
21:04:06 <frosch123> when non-track-tiles become track-tiles you will get a lot traincrashes anyway :)
21:04:15 <frosch123> who cares if they fall down the slope :p
21:04:20 <Swallow> glx: I used tileindices to refer to either a waypoint or a signal tile, but I'm gonna revert that
21:04:22 <Wolf01> why a train should crash?
21:05:11 <glx> Wolf01: TBBT with T=trac, B=buffer
21:05:21 <Wolf01> ooooh
21:05:41 <frosch123> I guess PBS won't be happy about that either :p
21:05:52 <Wolf01> the same should already happen with TBT where B is the double headed buffer
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21:06:19 <petern> do we care much if people removes grfs anyway?
21:06:37 <petern> i'm fairly sure that in the spec you can remove vehicle grfs too
21:06:44 <petern> ttdpatch does store details of them in the game
21:06:48 <Wolf01> you already suggest to don't remove grfs runtime
21:07:01 <petern> Wolf01, write a patch to allow it and i'll consider it
21:07:07 <Wolf01> I'll try
21:07:19 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14853 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: rename GetClosestStationFromTile to GetClosestDeletedStation as that's what it does instead of finding non-deleted stations.
21:07:56 <Wolf01> I hope to understand how the code for the possible slopes works
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21:08:19 <petern> good
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21:08:22 <petern> cos i didn't
21:09:00 <Wolf01> last time I've got a great headache to try to allow vertical tracks on slopes
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21:09:59 <frosch123> Wolf01: let it perform the airport test for non-track tiles
21:10:49 <Wolf01> why only non track ones?
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21:11:11 <frosch123> else trains will drive over the cliff
21:11:12 <petern> because the current behaviour for track tiles shouldn't change
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21:13:05 <Wolf01> but as glx said, when one removes the grf, the non-track tiles become track tiles, and one might expect to be able to build track tiles in the same slope
21:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause> non-track-tiles should be an entirely different tile class
21:14:35 <Eddi|zuHause> not rail rail tiles
21:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> s/rail//
21:14:53 <Eddi|zuHause> s/ / /
21:15:16 <Wolf01> indeed, non track tiles should be newobjects
21:15:54 <frosch123> except someone wants to place objects which consists of tiles from both classes :p
21:16:14 <Wolf01> wow 16.49MB transferred... I should update the checkout more often
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21:17:09 <frosch123> petern: ///<
21:17:14 <petern> oh yes
21:20:05 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but that is only a problem at construction time
21:20:36 <frosch123> and destruction- and overbuilding-time
21:20:53 <frosch123> but true, it is limited to OTTD
21:21:30 <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: overbuilding of a station tile should not depend on town rating
21:22:00 <Wolf01> I really agree with Eddi
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21:24:17 <petern> write a patch
21:25:36 <frosch123> with a configurable chance per year, that the missing building license is detected, and the building is destructed
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21:26:44 <petern> hehe
21:26:56 <Eddi|zuHause> lmao
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21:27:10 <Wolf01> ok, the station can be built on every kind of sloped tile, and the train don't fall down
21:27:30 <Wolf01> at least for now
21:27:32 <petern> you did it already?
21:27:37 <Wolf01> yep
21:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: not even if you continue the rail?
21:27:44 <Wolf01> no
21:27:57 <Wolf01> it stops at the end of the station
21:28:28 <frosch123> SmatZ: did you change something wrt. that?
21:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: can you try with my middle stop patch?
21:29:00 <Wolf01> just commented out the slope checking in the CheckFlatLandBelow function
21:29:22 <frosch123> Wolf01: ok, the train stops, but can it continue to the next station across the cliff?
21:30:03 <Wolf01> oh that
21:30:07 <Wolf01> yes, it does
21:30:18 <SmatZ> frosch123: wrt. what?
21:30:28 <Wolf01> and it's really nice
21:30:36 <Wolf01> we could make sloped stations!!!
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21:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> sloped stations are hardly "realistic"
21:31:33 <frosch123> SmatZ: I temporarily wondered whether end-of-line detection can handle cliffs
21:31:40 <Wolf01> also 30° tracks
21:32:32 <qball> what is wrong with sloped stations?
21:32:45 <TrueBrain> they smell!!
21:32:48 <qball> aah
21:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but... i need sloped tram stations
21:33:14 <qball> yeah
21:33:17 <Wolf01> I'll try to make it not building the foundations and see if I can make the train behave like in a normal slope... maybe then graphics will come in a second time
21:34:23 <SmatZ> frosch123: :-)
21:34:39 * SmatZ understands Eddi|zuHause's needs
21:34:41 <Wolf01> the only impossible slope is the steep slope, the one which covers 2 height levels
21:34:43 <SmatZ> I need the same!
21:35:02 <frosch123> Wolf01: you can build inclined foundations there
21:35:23 <Wolf01> yes but where I find an inclined station?
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21:35:44 <Wolf01> and then I don't need foundations
21:35:53 <frosch123> err, maybe is pisa? you should know
21:36:02 <Eddi|zuHause> lmao :p
21:36:11 <frosch123> hmm, I bet pisa is the german name
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21:37:27 <frosch123> lost again :(
21:38:21 <frosch123> Wolf01: I meant to just call GetRailFoundation() in GetFoundation_Station()
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21:39:18 <Wolf01> uhm, I'll give it a look
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21:53:43 <Wolf01> getfoundation_station not called?
21:53:51 <Wolf01> really uhm
21:54:30 <Wolf01> ah, no, I was using the wrong tool
21:55:03 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: glx * r14854 /trunk/projects/ (6 files): -Change: speedup compilation with MSVC on 'multi-processor' systems (khh)
21:55:55 <glx> of course generation step is still slow for release
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22:34:55 <Wolf01> gah, it's difficult :(
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22:37:41 <TrueBrain> welcome to our life :)
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22:46:15 <joachim> i can't bulldoze a station cause there's a "train in the way", but there isn't
22:46:22 <joachim> is that a known thing?
22:46:49 <Wolf01> yes, now
22:47:31 <Wolf01> are you really sure that there isn't a train on any of the station platforms?
22:47:59 <joachim> oh
22:48:04 <joachim> never mind
22:49:09 <joachim> forgot i was using distant stations
22:51:32 <Wolf01> svn: This client is too old to work with working copy
22:51:34 <Wolf01> wtf?
22:51:43 <Rubidium> petern: next time type the right password ;)
22:51:51 <petern> no
22:51:55 <petern> the right username
22:52:05 <petern> see that works
22:52:08 <petern> just not with tortoise :(
22:52:13 <petern> or svn
22:52:24 <petern> er, yeah
22:52:26 <glx> Wolf01: what version of svn ?
22:52:33 <Wolf01> 1.4.2
22:52:46 <Wolf01> but I use tortoise 1.5.x
22:52:51 <Rubidium> there's your problem
22:52:55 <Wolf01> msys still use an old version
22:53:14 <glx> msys use the version you installed :)
22:53:17 <Rubidium> tortoise 1.5 uses svn 1.5, thus upgrades your WC as written in the readme and such
22:53:48 <glx> just upgrade the cli version
22:54:05 * glx uses 1.5.4
22:57:01 <petern> odd
22:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, 4 is even.
22:57:28 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
22:57:44 <petern> well well
22:57:55 <petern> seems it's trying to connect to *my* server, not the correct one :o
22:58:04 <petern> my server just locked my out :p
22:59:23 <petern> lol
22:59:31 <petern> fixed it
22:59:52 <petern> it uses the host specified in the default settings instead the host specified
22:59:54 <petern> crazytalk
23:00:39 <SpearmintRhino> petern: updated NWM
23:00:51 <petern> you what?
23:01:18 <SpearmintRhino> updated 3/1/9
23:02:12 <petern> still making no sense
23:03:27 <SpearmintRhino> updated network west midlands for openbve
23:04:14 <petern> oh
23:04:15 <petern> you're sacro
23:05:05 <SpearmintRhino> quite
23:08:01 <SpearmintRhino> @seen WhiteRhino
23:08:01 <DorpsGek> SpearmintRhino: WhiteRhino was last seen in #openttd 12 hours, 55 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <WhiteRhino> Anyway, bed is calling me. >.< I'll be back tomorrow. Seeya.
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23:38:11 <petern> hmz
23:38:17 <petern> Perfect stop bonus: 15
23:38:21 <petern> Late: -38
23:38:23 <petern> never mind
23:38:31 <petern> at least i didn't run into the buffer stop
23:38:58 <TrueBrain> what are you playing .... :p
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23:41:45 <WhiteRhino> Evening cats and kittens.
23:43:57 <dihedral> wrong channel
23:44:18 <WhiteRhino> *checks* No, it's the right one.
23:44:37 <Aali> no cats in here
23:44:42 <Aali> not in any sense of the word
23:45:06 <dihedral> WhiteRhino, try #moocows
23:45:25 <WhiteRhino> Oh my.
23:48:37 <Eddi|zuHause> fish go moo?
23:49:43 <dihedral> moo go fish!
23:50:10 <TrueBrain> and we can only wish there are kittens here ...
23:55:04 <frosch123> hmm, what is the correct order of calling various callback 36 and adding articulated parts