IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-03
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00:00:13 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yeah ... making stupidity relative always works :)
00:00:35 <TrueBrain> "If it appears broken, don't use it"
00:00:39 <TrueBrain> will be my new slogan
00:01:11 <Prof_Frink> "If it ain't broke, you ain't played with it enough."
00:01:22 <Skyruner2> Rubidium: remove the source of "stupid"
00:01:28 <TrueBrain> haha, and at this moment, a new slashdot article appears:
00:01:45 <TrueBrain> what are the odds ...
00:02:14 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: "if appears broken don't tell what is broken, but tell everyone it is broken and that the developers haven't fixed it yet"
00:02:48 <Rubidium> Skyruner2: ALT-F4 only moves me to the source of "stupid", i.e. the workspace with my browser with tt-forums opened
00:03:01 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I only agree with the first part :)
00:03:46 <TrueBrain> always reminds me a customer called me: "My computer gave an error" - "which error?" - "I don't know, I clicked it away" - "so why do you call me?" - "I just wanted to let you know I had an error"
00:03:51 <qball> yeah nothing like a bug report: it does not work
00:03:58 <TrueBrain> after that there was a clear sound of me bashing my head against the wall
00:04:18 <qball> TrueBrain: sorry, it was me
00:04:32 <TrueBrain> I asked in return if that person also wanted to call me when she was going to the toilet
00:04:34 <Skyruner2> Rubidium: i meant to suggest alt+f4 to the user complaining on the forum as a fix to his problem
00:04:38 <TrueBrain> it was neve runderstood :(
00:06:13 <TrueBrain> anyway ... Rubidium: still count 10 fingers?
00:06:52 <Rubidium> nope, I count 1010 ;)
00:07:17 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well, if you count like that, I hope you can count to 1111111111
00:08:46 <TrueBrain> people always look at me all confused when I say I can count up to 1024 on my fingers ..
00:09:13 <TrueBrain> once they asked me to proof it ..
00:09:15 <TrueBrain> that was a dull night
00:09:54 <Rubidium> last time I tried I overflowed after 1023
00:10:28 <goodger> unless you stop with 1000000000
00:10:30 <TrueBrain> goodger: I have no idea how much fingers you have .......
00:10:44 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: always a nasty side-effect :)
00:10:52 <TrueBrain> goodger: 2^8 is ...
00:11:11 <qball> TrueBrain: two's complement?
00:11:15 <TrueBrain> Roujin: people should learn this by head :)
00:11:18 <Roujin> calc bot dear calc bot please tell goodger what 2^10 is ;)
00:11:24 <goodger> the maximum binary number expressible with ten digits is (2**11)-1
00:11:38 <goodger> Roujin: 10^1 is 1000000000
00:11:52 <goodger> the maximum number is 1111111111, which is 10^11-1
00:11:52 <TrueBrain> I think goodger needs some kind of leason in binary counting ...
00:12:28 <Rubidium> wow... so with one bit you can count from 0 to 3
00:12:39 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: a quadbit!
00:13:06 <goodger> I am quite confident that I am able to count in binary
00:13:06 <Skyruner2> i use both my eyes aswell.. also sticking out my toung is another bit aswell as closing/opening my mouth... i can raise both my big toes but usualy people can tell when im wearing shoes - same problem with breathing in/ out
00:13:11 <TrueBrain> goodger: in here in general it is wise to either know what you are talking about, or shut the fuck up ;)
00:13:37 <Roujin> 10^1 is 1000000000 <--- I am not entirely sure what to say about this oO
00:13:45 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: just show goodger 132 counted binary on your fingers
00:13:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Skyruner2: i would not recommend sticking out your tongue and closing your mouth at the same time
00:13:52 <TrueBrain> but it is very cool, that with 8 bits, you can count up to 511 ... that redefines all our computers instant ....
00:14:02 <qball> goodger: please count to 2047 on 10 fingers.
00:14:16 <qball> please paste every step
00:14:21 <TrueBrain> qball: an other dull night it is ;)
00:14:28 <TrueBrain> and a frustrating one for that matter :)
00:14:38 <qball> TrueBrain: but the outcome might be fun
00:14:44 <Rubidium> more Yoda thou shalt speak
00:14:47 <TrueBrain> 1023 .... 0 ... 1 ... 2 ....
00:14:54 <qball> TrueBrain: I got a good bottle of whiskey to keep me company
00:15:02 <TrueBrain> qball: hmm .. whiskey might do the trick
00:15:08 <TrueBrain> I think in the end you will have your 11th bit :)
00:15:20 <TrueBrain> (the end of the bottle, that is)
00:15:25 <qball> TrueBrain: or none at all
00:15:29 <goodger> qball: ok, you raise each of your ten digits, which is 1111111111, which is one less than 10000000000, or in other words, (2**11)-1, which according to google is 2047
00:15:38 <qball> allready had some nice 14 years old today
00:15:53 <Roujin> goodger: you're obiwan.
00:16:41 <TrueBrain> @kick TrueBrain stfu
00:16:41 *** TrueBrain was kicked by DorpsGek (stfu)
00:16:43 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
00:16:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
00:16:45 *** Progman has joined #openttd
00:16:59 <TrueBrain> take us to 2047, or math-user
00:17:02 <goodger> so eventually, you will end up with 1111111111
00:17:29 <Eddi|zuHause> goodger: 1 is 2^0
00:17:32 <Roujin> goodger: the least significant bit is worth 2^0, not 2^1
00:17:47 <Roujin> you started counting at 1, not at 0
00:18:03 <TrueBrain> as I said a few minutes ago ... goodger needs some bitwise counting leasons
00:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 0000 0000 is 2^8
00:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause> 100 0000 0000 is 2^10
00:18:32 <TrueBrain> if only goodger would have tried counting on his fingers ...
00:18:44 <TrueBrain> 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512
00:18:51 <qball> 1777 = 3ff = 1023 = 1111111111
00:18:54 <TrueBrain> then he would have not made such an ass out of itself ...
00:19:06 <Rubidium> using goodger's math: 10000000000 = 2^11 -> 1000000000 = 2^10 -> 100000000 = 2^9 -> 10000000 = 2^8 -> 1000000 = 2^7 -> 100000 = 2^6 -> 10000 = 2^5 -> 1000 = 2^4 -> 100 = 2^3 -> 10 = 2^2 -> 1 = 2^1 -> 1/2 = 2^0 = 1
00:19:08 <TrueBrain> (itself, by the lack of gender-check)
00:19:30 <TrueBrain> big endian is more useful for humans :)
00:19:33 <Roujin> heh, TrueBrain has big endian fingers *snicker*
00:19:35 <TrueBrain> little endian is only useful for machines :)
00:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> 1/2 = 1 might not be the most useful equation :p
00:19:58 <goodger> yes, yes, I was mistaken
00:19:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I think we all want to deposit like .... 50 eurocent to goodger
00:20:03 <TrueBrain> then w eget 1 euro in return :)
00:20:20 <TrueBrain> yes, big need to rub it in
00:20:26 <goodger> TrueBrain: no, you'll get 1.01 euro... haven't you seen the price of sterling recently?
00:20:28 * TrueBrain gets the sponses ...
00:20:38 <TrueBrain> what is your account number?
00:20:39 <Skyruner2> we could just use a modified IEEE754 to represent numbers with fingers
00:20:43 <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of that time when some person in here was complaining when i explained the refit masks in big endian
00:20:46 <Rubidium> and... that would redefine 2 to be the same as 1, so he can only count to 1
00:20:49 <qball> I guess goodger worked at the banks in america
00:20:56 <Skyruner2> thatway we could get quite big numbers.. but also less accurate with big numbers :P
00:21:14 <goodger> qball: no, I made a fairly simple mistake
00:21:24 <TrueBrain> a very BASIC mistake
00:21:29 <TrueBrain> like ... not using your fingers
00:21:39 <goodger> why on earth would I use my fingers?
00:21:54 <TrueBrain> I tihnk goodger needs to re-read the start of this conversation :)
00:21:55 <qball> to not act like a complete ass
00:22:11 <Rubidium> making a mistake isn't bad, but keeping claiming you are right and 4 people are wrong makes you well...
00:22:12 <qball> make a complete ass of thouself
00:22:22 <goodger> I can't add 512, 256, 128, 64, 32, 16, 8, 4, 2 and 1 in my head
00:22:48 <TrueBrain> I can even do it in hex ...
00:23:12 <goodger> so I skipped to (2**n-1), making the forgiveable mistake of forgetting that it's actually (2**(n-1)-1)
00:23:26 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: how much is 0x20 - 020?
00:23:48 <TrueBrain> goodger: I don't think you can make the disision for us if your mistake is forgivable or not
00:23:51 <TrueBrain> that is kind of rude to claim
00:23:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I have a bot for that :p
00:24:24 <goodger> claiming you're a smug wanker would be a rude claim. claiming you should forgive my mistake is not
00:24:47 <Eddi|zuHause> he said -, not +
00:24:50 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: both wrong
00:24:51 <TrueBrain> goodger: no no, you did not claim we SHOULD forgive your mistake, you claimed we HAV ENO CHOICE to forgive your mistake
00:25:01 * TrueBrain feels stupid .... sorry Rubidium :)
00:25:08 <TrueBrain> there was a bit of a noise on the line
00:25:10 <goodger> I said the mistake was forgiveable
00:25:18 <qball> TrueBrain: excuses excuses
00:25:18 <TrueBrain> so you made that choice for us?
00:25:27 <goodger> I didn't say "you HAV ENO CHOICE to forgive my mistake"
00:25:27 <TrueBrain> I think we should go to court and see if your mistake is forgiveable :)
00:25:28 <qball> goodger: you where a bit off
00:25:43 <Rubidium> but I'll give you 80% of the total points for the answer as the explanation was correct
00:26:08 <goodger> it doesn't _matter_ whether you forgive my mistake or not
00:26:10 <TrueBrain> bit is such a nice word
00:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: he only made a sign error, which, unless the complexity of the calculation is changed significantly, warrants only 1 point reduced
00:26:53 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and you could get 5 points for the assignment ... hence the 80% ;)
00:27:16 <qball> goodger: you where a bit bitten down forgiveness
00:27:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, our assignments here typically got 4 points
00:27:32 <TrueBrain> so you wanted to reduce my score to 75%?
00:27:38 <TrueBrain> what is that for a new years gift :(
00:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause> qball: you mean the verb, which is spelled "were", "where" is a question word
00:28:25 <TrueBrain> who calls himself a cow?
00:28:26 <Eddi|zuHause> when was the habit of "new year gifts" introduced?
00:28:29 <TrueBrain> stupid dutch people ...
00:28:37 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: a minute ago, did you miss it?
00:29:26 <TrueBrain> I wish my IRC client would tell me how long ago it had seen a given user when he/she/it joins ...
00:30:05 <TrueBrain> I wish I had a newzbin invitation ..
00:30:10 <Rubidium> just make a patch and add the appropriate overlay to gentoo
00:30:51 <TrueBrain> writing my own IRC client is still on my todo :)
00:31:02 <TrueBrain> but it requires a rather complex structure to support what I want :)
00:31:14 <qball> TrueBrain: you should let goodger do the bitmasks.. he is good at it
00:31:23 <TrueBrain> qball: now that is lame ;)
00:31:39 <TrueBrain> but lame-encoder is one of th emost used mp3 encoders .. so I take it ;)
00:31:41 <qball> TrueBrain: a bit lame, I agree
00:32:18 <TrueBrain> 511 & 0xFF == 511 ....
00:32:19 <qball> TrueBrain: well the mad encoder nicely outputs 28bit data.. so you have 4 bit to spare
00:32:21 <TrueBrain> yeah, it still is funny :)
00:33:20 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
00:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "complex structure" as in "SELECT quit_time FROM nicks WHERE nickname = ?"
00:33:40 <Roujin> what are you getting at TrueBrain?
00:33:50 <TrueBrain> Roujin: just thinking how goodger thinks
00:34:00 <TrueBrain> 511 fits in 8 bits in the world he painted
00:34:09 <qball> we are still a bit fuzzy on his logic
00:34:12 <TrueBrain> so .. 511 & 0xFF is still 511 :)
00:34:16 <goodger> I don't think like that
00:34:16 <Rubidium> Roujin: the Goodgerian theorem of applied whit mathematics
00:34:21 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: euuh .. okay ... :p
00:34:26 <goodger> I just forgot a tiny part of an equation I haven't used in years
00:34:51 <qball> goodger: that wasn't the problem
00:35:00 <TrueBrain> I wonder what other cool things we can do with that logic
00:35:14 <TrueBrain> at least -255 also fits in 8 bits
00:35:21 <Rubidium> mixing octal and decimal is much more fun than playing with bitmasks
00:35:45 <TrueBrain> well, the question: what is 32 - 020
00:35:48 <TrueBrain> is much more tricky ;)
00:36:04 <Roujin> you mean like, halloween == christmas ?
00:36:32 <vraa> sorry my client is acting up
00:36:32 <vraa> my entire computer is acting up
00:36:47 <TrueBrain> at least he had his computer to blame .... ;)
00:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that joke does not really work in german
00:37:33 <TrueBrain> ah, Eddi|zuHause, your SQL was a reply to my complaining about IRC :p
00:37:40 * TrueBrain is a bit slow in 2009 ;)
00:38:07 * Eddi|zuHause presses TrueBrain's "Turbo" button
00:39:01 <TrueBrain> no, my own IRC client would not be like any IRC client you know :) It would have a server, where several clients can attach to (I am a lot on the way lately, and I hate to not being able to login from everywhere) .. it would show me the missed lines when I rejoin (with correct times) ... it would give much more info about users .. it would colour lines nicely ... my list is long :p
00:39:09 <TrueBrain> qball: you were going to bed, remember?
00:39:11 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: tnx :)
00:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: so you want something like an advanced bouncer
00:40:08 <qball> TrueBrain: screen +ssh + away does wonders
00:40:09 <TrueBrain> [01:27] <qball> anyway night
00:40:23 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: a very advanced, yes
00:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to screen+irssi?
00:41:07 <TrueBrain> the fact that I love GUIs, most likely :)
00:41:18 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no clicky stuff
00:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i can understand that argument ;)
00:41:55 <TrueBrain> but okay ... I have the same with my music player
00:42:01 <TrueBrain> same idea, same central redirection
00:42:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it's only that this was the most favourite way of other people that were confronted with the mobility problem
00:42:10 <TrueBrain> so I guess I just need to build a framework for that ;)
00:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but... isn't X also network-capable?
00:42:29 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yeah ... but it can be done better in my opinion :)
00:42:38 <TrueBrain> qball: I use mpd ....... it sucks :p
00:42:44 <TrueBrain> (well, it is nice, just the clients sucks :p)
00:42:46 <Rubidium> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0012 041 041 000 Old_age Always - 26229
00:42:53 <Rubidium> ^ is that good or bad for a laptop?
00:42:57 <qball> TrueBrain: agree they all suck.. there are so many
00:43:00 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: lol, nice :)
00:43:10 <TrueBrain> jinzora2 is nice .. but it is php :(
00:43:15 <TrueBrain> I want a frontend like songbird!
00:43:41 <TrueBrain> xulrunner is nice :)
00:43:52 <TrueBrain> but okay: a frontend like iTunes, for all I care :p
00:44:12 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I now use NoMachine's NX server/client model
00:44:19 <TrueBrain> works pretty nice ... just not portable to my iPhone :)
00:45:10 <TrueBrain> lol, I made my candle go all crazy again :p
00:45:18 <TrueBrain> when I blow in it to put it out ... flames reached top-level again ..
00:45:23 <TrueBrain> I should stop doing that ...
00:45:40 <TrueBrain> (it got so hot, that the parafine became gas-like .... hehehehe)
00:46:16 <TrueBrain> qball: well, at least that looks nice .. url?
00:46:46 <TrueBrain> haha, no, not venhuizen
00:46:47 <Skyruner2> can i send a debug string to the ottd console?
00:46:58 <qball> TrueBrain: thx.. I wrote that
00:47:02 <Skyruner2> ah i can live debug in VS :) nm
00:47:05 <qball> TrueBrain: gmpcwiki.sarine.nl
00:49:31 <qball> sonata is a decent gui aswell
00:50:23 <TrueBrain> lol, libmpd is part of the gmpc project I gather? :p
00:51:39 <TrueBrain> plugins are slightly fuzzy ....
00:51:53 <TrueBrain> (well, the representation of them, as in: the download dir shows them, but wtf?)
00:53:30 <qball> what distro do you use?
00:53:48 <qball> there is a overlay for mpd
00:54:54 <TrueBrain> doesn't install any plugins :p
00:54:58 <qball> anyway, I am going to sleep.
00:55:05 <qball> you can get the plugins from there
00:55:14 <TrueBrain> but you hav eno idea what they do ;)
00:55:38 <qball> coveramazon, last.fm and lyricwiki are nice to have (take care of covers, artist images, similar artist, similar songs and lyrics
00:55:38 <TrueBrain> 17MiB of memory (RSS) and 200 MiB of virtual ...
00:55:47 <TrueBrain> well, on average not bad ;)
00:56:02 <qball> hmm it scales to 1.000.000 songs
00:56:05 <TrueBrain> I have covers!! But I doubt mpd knows about that ...
00:56:28 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14791 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): -Add: the ability to make ISO dates with the string system (PhilSophus)
00:56:41 <qball> mdcover can grab them from music directory if you have access to it
00:56:44 <TrueBrain> well, it is one of the better clients I have seen so far ;)
00:57:01 <qball> beside mpc also the oldest
00:57:29 <TrueBrain> but okay, bedtime for me ..
00:57:42 <TrueBrain> tnx for the tip qball ;)
00:58:03 <thingwath> hm, someone should finally invent some global music metadata collection
00:58:20 <TrueBrain> thingwath: there are enough of those ...
00:58:27 <TrueBrain> musicbrainz being the biggest I think
00:58:35 <qball> some are a bit off though
00:58:42 <thingwath> global as in same for amarok, banshee, gmpc, rhythmbox, whatever :-)
00:58:55 <thingwath> I don't like importing all the files again and again just to try one music player.
00:59:00 <qball> thingwath: they are working on an xdg client
00:59:00 <TrueBrain> we ar enot Microsoft ..
00:59:12 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14792 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: make the date format for default savegame/screenshot names configurable
00:59:15 <TrueBrain> but okay: good night all :)
00:59:15 <qball> xdg standard for metadata
01:00:14 <thingwath> well, it wouldn't work, most likely, the music players are probably too different
01:01:38 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14793 /trunk/src/lang/ (40 files): -Update (r14792): replace a string parameter in the other languages too
01:03:55 <thingwath> but it's sad, I used amarok 1 for two or three years, there are statistics, lyrics, cover arts... many of them manually found and set... and there is no easy way to keep this, when I don't want to use amarok anymore :/
01:06:57 <Eddi|zuHause> they are stored in a database, you can just read them out
01:08:56 <goodger> thingwath: that's the same with everything...
01:09:14 <goodger> the in-mp3 tags are woefully inadequate
01:10:06 <thingwath> music players metadata too, sometimes
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04:03:54 <goodger> oh, BTW, I have passed on your cruelty to Linux Format Magazine
04:04:04 <goodger> "I would like to point out to Mr Hudson that in fact, the largest date available in ext3 is not 2^32 seconds (which would place the epoch on the 13th of December 1901, as he claims) but instead (2^31)-1 seconds, which places it at the correct time, 00:00:00 January 1 1970."
04:06:59 *** elmex_ is now known as elmex
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04:54:54 <Moodles> im running 0.6.3, how do i increase icon sizes, theyre too small
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04:56:13 <goodger> Moodles: decreasing your screen resolution is the only possibility at this time
04:56:53 <Moodles> i noticed in the change log, double size was removed, did it used to serve the function i needed?
04:57:02 <goodger> your eyes will get used to the tiny sizes, however, within a few minutes
04:57:28 <goodger> no such feature existed in 0.6.2 that I was aware of
04:57:54 <Moodles> my desktop is 1920x1200, and i like playing windowed
04:58:43 <goodger> sorry, the only option in 0.6.3 is to reduce your resolution
04:58:43 <goodger> a larger-sized interface is in the pipeline (google the forum for "32bpp"...)
05:40:49 <darks> Rubidium: seems cannot compile the OTTD with sdl in OSX. some errors in ini.cpp ....
05:51:31 <darks> Rubidium: all error is like below:
05:51:55 <darks> Rubidium: /openttd-trunk-r14768/src/ini.cpp:17: error: ‘strndup’ was not declared in this scope
05:52:37 <darks> Rubidium: all 'strndup' are not declared.
05:55:14 <darks> Rubidium: i have to have a rest. when u see the messages above, tell me please.If I'm not in IRC, email me, (chen.bill.bill@gmail.com). OK? THX very much.
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06:30:18 <Moodles> is it possible to plan track layout (but not lay the track obviously) while paused, im learning the game again
06:31:42 <goodger> that, again, I think, is in the pipeline..
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06:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Moodles: there is a "build while paused" cheat, though
06:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... have i ever mentioned how beautiful snow is?
06:41:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ... as long as you are on the inside ...
06:41:59 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: we will have some snow on monday perhaps
06:42:41 <goodger> the entire professional population of Greater London will complain bitterly about it because their commute will be delayed perhaps thirty seconds
06:43:29 <goodger> the country's train networks will grind to a halt, and a year's supply of road salt will be expended in two hours
06:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds better than snow in rome ;)
06:46:17 <goodger> "they always say it is the wrong sort of snow; our trains are brand-new, shiny machines that apparently cannot tolerate the slightest scattering of snow because it is the 'wrong sort'. in the soviet union, they have horrible clanking things that survive three-foot drifts covering the tracks in temperatures theoretically too low for humans to survive; we should import some of _that_ type of snow..."
06:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> what soviet union?
06:51:28 <goodger> that book predates me slightly, and hence the breakup of the soviet union
06:51:43 <goodger> or maybe it was an alternate-universe type thing
06:53:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
07:09:45 <Moodles> wierd just about every transport company wanted me to buy them for 2 each
07:10:18 <goodger> yes, that's because they will go bankrupt if you don't buy them
07:10:50 <Moodles> 1m worth of planes for free
07:11:24 <Moodles> easy way to repay my loans i guess
07:11:29 <goodger> plus $lots of bank loans that you will have to pay back
07:11:39 <goodger> plus the continued losses that their routes are making
07:11:50 <goodger> (unless you asset-strip)
07:11:59 <Moodles> thats why im sending their vehicles back to service depot so i can sell them
07:12:20 <goodger> ok... what about the bank loans?
07:12:37 <Moodles> looks like i didnt get their bank depts
07:13:05 <goodger> enjoy your asset-stripping, then
07:13:20 <Moodles> i never got asset stripping when i played with 0.5.x
07:14:01 <goodger> probably those companies were profitable?
07:14:18 <goodger> the ability to asset-strip has been in ottd practically forever
07:15:22 <Moodles> im playing single player at the moment, ive made industry very low, mountains, very rough terrain.. but still seems too easy
07:16:35 <Moodles> need to find more ways to challenge myself
07:23:06 <Moodles> raised sea level to max, this should make things alittle more interesting
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07:29:32 <Alberth> Moodles: increase cost of terrain modifying
07:31:23 <Alberth> On the other hand, making it so difficult that you cannot play any more is almost impossible, maybe you should set another goal, like connect all cities, or connect all industries, or so.
07:40:23 <Alberth> Playing with cargodest is also a good challenge; suddenly the cargo decides where it wants to go to :)
07:44:19 <enra> hi all. have a quick question for anyone that's around
07:44:41 <enra> where can i get a copy of "total town replacement set 2"
08:02:25 <Moodles> ive noticed on hard, the ai doesnt do trains like it did with my old 0.5.x install.. only sem to do plane routes
08:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played with AI for a decade
08:08:13 <enra> yeah - grf crawler only has set 3
08:08:22 <enra> set 3 needs set 2 installed
08:08:59 <Rubidium> as for me it doesn't need version 3
08:09:55 <Rubidium> uhm... version 2 ofcourse ;)
08:10:00 <enra> it doesn't? the website says it does
08:10:23 <Rubidium> what website says it where?
08:12:27 <enra> oh - never mind - major blond moment there - the website refers to TTD - not OTTD
08:12:46 <enra> i just realised after reading it a few dozen times lol
08:20:15 <Jerimiah40> lol, I've made that exact mistake :
08:21:07 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: the AI is a useful source of profit --- just buy up the profitable competitors...
08:23:19 <petern> the AI is a 'useful' source of annoying road, annoying track, annoying terraforming, and annoying bulldozing of towns...
08:23:42 <Moodles> AI used to compete with my heavily for coal routes
08:24:00 <goodger> it doesn't usually terraform or bulldoze towns for me...
08:24:22 <goodger> and once you've bought them, you can easily remove the roads and tracks that are actually annoying
08:24:35 <petern> it doesn't if you play on flat maps
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08:29:54 <WhiteRhino> I'm new to this IRC stuff, don't mind my ramblings.
08:30:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i go to sleep
08:34:22 <George> Eddi|zuHause: [05:27:19] <Eddi|zuHause> and you should suggest George to put a better understandable error message for people who are playing 0.6 and never heard of nightlies before
08:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> George: error message when ECS is loaded in too old version of openttd
08:35:27 <George> I know what we a speaking about. I meant what text to put there?
08:35:57 <George> 5 * 11 0B 83 7F 06 "r14569" 00
08:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause> when someone tries to load ECS beta 5 in openttd 0.6, it is not very useful to tell him "needs rXXXXX", as that person most likely has not heard of revisions, trunk or nightlies before
08:36:48 <George> I understand what you do not like. I ask what to put instaed?
08:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the only reasonable thing that i can imagine would be "0.7"
08:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> even if that is not out yet
08:37:28 <George> Wouldn't it be more confusing?
08:38:46 <George> Eddi|zuHause: P.S. Good morning :)
08:39:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i was awake the whole night...
08:39:29 <Eddi|zuHause> huge, probably carreer deciding, deadline in 2 weeks...
08:39:50 <George> Yes, new year hollidays moves the night time :)
08:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and the probability for an extension is like 0,2%
08:41:16 <George> ops. And wee have holidays here! 10 days of holidays!
08:41:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but holidays don't help if the thing has to be done...
08:41:41 <WhiteRhino> If I might ask, what's the difference between the Stable and Nightly downloads?
08:42:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, nightlies are development builds
08:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> they undergo less testing, and might contain serious bugs
08:42:38 <Eddi|zuHause> or not work at all
08:42:41 <WhiteRhino> So stick to the Stable one, really?
08:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they are fine usually
08:43:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's not guaranteed to stay that way
08:43:37 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: tell that the people who trashed their savegame with articulated vehicles
08:47:22 <George> Eddi|zuHause, Rubidium: so, you think 0.7 (rXXXXX) would be ok for the user, who uses stable version? And if you'd realise v0.6.4, they would not work?
08:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause> people who do not follow the development process should most likely stick to the stable. stable builds are also more useful in multiplayer
08:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause> George: if you did the check correctly, it should not load in 0.6.4
08:48:10 <WhiteRhino> Second question: I lost my TTD disk (it was the DOS one anyway), and torrented TTD tonight.. but the only one I could find of decent size was already patched with some other, non-OpenTTD thing. Is that potentially going to be a problem?
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08:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> George: the features that you need from the nightlies are with 99,9% probability not going to be in any possible future 0.6.x release
08:48:59 <Rubidium> you could also wait for the next stable release when releasing your NewGRFs, like mb seems to be doing
08:50:13 <WhiteRhino> Ah, the one I got has TTDPatch with it.
08:50:48 <Rubidium> you could also check whether someone's playing a non-stable and give a different error message, though I wouldn't know what error message
08:50:51 <George> Eddi|zuHause: Does a feature list for 0.6.4 documented anywhere?
08:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> WhiteRhino: a) we do not endorse illegal downloads, b) it should be fine, you only need the data files
08:51:18 <Eddi|zuHause> George: 0.6.x builds only get bugfixes
08:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> c) you could have just looked in the forums ;p
08:52:42 <WhiteRhino> Ah.. thought the IRC channel was more the place to ask questions. Is it meant more for development stuff..?
08:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the IRC channel is fine for asking questions, but most of them have been answered in the forum before
08:54:49 <WhiteRhino> I was more hoping to hang around other people who play TTD. Promise I'll keep my questions to a minimum. =P
08:55:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that was not what i meant
09:15:25 <WhiteRhino> Just downloaded OpenTTD, joining a game to watch. =D
09:28:47 * goodger wonders whether Wolf01 will say anything today, or merely leave
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09:29:05 <WhiteRhino> He said hello already. *points*
09:30:10 <goodger> WhiteRhino: wolf01 is famed for saying "hello", prior to an eighteen-hour silence, at which point he says "bye" or something like it, before immediately departing
09:31:44 <WhiteRhino> Ahh, that I didn't know.
09:32:16 <petern> at least he has 10 fingers
09:32:23 <goodger> yes, hence why I pointed it out
09:32:37 <petern> on the other hand (hah) some people do have more than 10...
09:32:37 <WhiteRhino> Bah. First I find a game on a huge map that's perpetually paused, then I find a game that's unpaused but only has one person playing on it.
09:32:55 <WhiteRhino> People with more than ten fingers are called Psychlos. =D
09:33:11 <yorick> you are getting the spam in, be careful
09:34:02 <WhiteRhino> Keep something radioactive on your person; it'll explode their breathe-gas. Yorick: You mean me?
09:34:44 <goodger> breathe... gas..? wha...
09:35:02 <WhiteRhino> Somebody needs to read Battlefield: Earth. =P
09:35:13 <yorick> you're getting the "oh, then just visit that server ending with @clanmega.warlink.eu" kind of messages in
09:35:22 <Rubidium> WhiteRhino: at the moment there are about twice as many servers as clients and seldomly the number of clients exceeds the number of servers
09:35:29 <Rubidium> so... good luck finding an active game
09:35:51 <yorick> try Kurts hard goal, 8 clients
09:35:56 <WhiteRhino> Ahh.. didn't mean to spam either. I haven't played this game in years, I'm a little giddy. >.>
09:37:22 <petern> hmm, i could try playing a game for once
09:38:18 <WhiteRhino> Have to find a game that's a good mix of people and whatever you'd call "not making my dialup connection weep."
09:39:36 <yorick> just "don't" play mp with dailup :)
09:39:41 <WhiteRhino> Yes, yes, dialup. The dunce-cap of the internet.
09:39:52 <yorick> "don't" even use dailup
09:40:05 <petern> darks: that's because we don't support SDL on OSX
09:40:11 <WhiteRhino> Carrier pidgeons don't support AIM. =)
09:40:42 <yorick> isn't sdl made for cross-compatibility?
09:41:05 <petern> actually it's because you don't have strndup, heh
09:41:30 <petern> yorick, yeah, but our OSX porter believes it doesn't work properly on OSX.
09:41:45 <yorick> your OSX porter is Bjarni, right?
09:41:51 <WhiteRhino> Where I live doesn't support anything but cable, and that's freakin' expensive.
09:41:56 <darks> petern: so which func is similar to strndup?
09:42:27 <darks> yorick: but it's longtime no see Bjarni....
09:42:47 <yorick> any of you actually believes bjarni?
09:43:50 <yorick> left-click scrolling looks laggy :o
09:44:06 <yorick> maybe the pointer should hide, so that you don't see it
09:44:17 <darks> yorick: you are a osx user too?
09:45:13 <petern> sounds like something is defining _GNU_SOURCE when it shouldn't
10:00:51 <darks> petern: add a func in string_func.h seems to pass the ini.cpp compiling. I don't know whether can run or not
10:01:39 <darks> petern: it's 6pm here now. I have to go to supper now.see you later.
10:02:32 <Rubidium> darks, as petern already said: it's SDL that's flawed
10:05:53 <petern> is SDL defining _GNU_SOURCE?
10:05:58 <WhiteRhino> Finally decide to hop on and start playing and it'd bedtime. See you folks tomorrow maybe.
10:06:11 <Rubidium> petern: likely, as it does for MINGW (see stdafx.h)
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10:07:10 <yorick> there is no such thing as RotateTrackBits?
10:12:25 <OsteHovel^EEE> my pc compiles openttd so SLOWLY...
10:12:54 <Rubidium> petern: do a sdl-config --cflags and you'll see
10:13:35 <OsteHovel^EEE> I like the svn version so i compile it on my linux pc then i compile the windows version there too becouse i use dedicated server and windows as a client.... maybe i can setup distcc to get it to compile faster...
10:16:02 <yorick> readable or trunkable?
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10:20:59 <Alberth> Apparently, previous time I f**ked up at patch 44_draw_row_counting.patch, fixed that.
10:21:48 <Alberth> interested in a small apply_patches shell script? :)
10:25:41 <Rubidium> already got a version of that, but for committing stuff
10:52:40 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14794 /trunk/src/ (settings_gui.cpp window.cpp): -Document: a few functions/variables (Alberth)
10:54:02 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14795 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: replace a magic number with a constant (Alberth)
10:56:52 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14796 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: if using variable, use it everywhere instead of hardcoding it's value sometimes (Alberth)
11:00:55 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14797 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: replace even more magic numbers with constants (Alberth)
11:04:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14798 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move variable declaration to first use of variable (Alberth)
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11:07:58 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14799 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move drawing a single settings entry to it's own function (Alberth)
11:12:02 <Alberth> Hmm, installing a vector drawing program, and getting a spellings checker thrown in as well. What are these installers thinking?
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11:13:37 <qball> Alberth: you can't have typo's in your object names
11:13:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
11:14:08 <Rubidium> qball: then install a grammar checker too, especially for IRC
11:14:31 <qball> Rubidium: the last one I installed committed suicide.
11:17:57 <edeca> omg; haha, y r u instalin' chequers?
11:18:06 <edeca> Yes, grammar checking should be compulsory
11:19:52 <Alberth> And they forget to install some fonts, so the program refuses to add text to my pictures. Argh!
11:24:18 <George> Rubidium: how to install grammar checker for IRC? (I have KVirc)
11:24:38 <Rubidium> George: I don't know
11:24:40 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14800 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the advanced settings window resizeable and scrollable (most by Alberth)
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11:53:41 <TrueBrain> I wonder where to put those gmpc plugins ..
11:54:06 <TrueBrain> morning to you too qball
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11:58:42 <yorick> now that the settings window is resizable, shouldn't the strings be truncated?
11:58:51 <TrueBrain> hello to you too petern :)
11:59:21 <yorick> and the tabs be nicely inline if it's big enough?
11:59:27 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: tried to find out how to do strgen stuff with that?
11:59:49 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I didn't say that ;) I said it could contain useful code :)
11:59:56 <TrueBrain> it is one of the fastest string-replacements out there :)
12:00:38 <Rubidium> strgen isn't a speed problem for OpenTTD though
12:00:48 <TrueBrain> true; still it might contain useful code :)
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12:05:33 <qball> TrueBrain: reading freshmeat/
12:05:33 <TrueBrain> k, enough toying around ... time to do some serious work :)
12:05:40 <TrueBrain> qball: as always ;)
12:05:50 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: any idea when you will have additional time for NAIL?
12:10:58 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I fear that won't be before I finished my thesis :(; I'm in the process of committing some user patches to trunk and then I most likely won't be doing much there either
12:11:21 <TrueBrain> How is your thesis going? ;)
12:11:46 <Rubidium> have to start with it next week
12:12:30 <Rubidium> most likely some implementation issue with aspect oriented programming; I'm not 100% sure at the moment
12:12:39 <TrueBrain> well .. good luck :)
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12:17:08 <Rubidium> petern: would interesting to plot TTDP's realistic acceleration too
12:17:29 <petern> it wouldn't be much different :)
12:17:32 <petern> but yes, i could do that
12:18:15 <Rubidium> what's the meaning of each of the lines though?
12:18:34 <petern> that was external to the images :D
12:19:11 <petern> green is tractive effort from the engine, red is resistance, and blue is effective tractive effort
12:19:39 <petern> what i can see is that ottd's formula is too dependent on mass
12:19:57 <petern> so that magic constant can just be turned down a bit
12:20:42 <petern> if i increase the mass by an order of magnitude, the maximum attainable speed drops by less than 5 m/s
12:20:58 <petern> in ottd it drops by 35 m/s
12:21:06 <petern> this is the bit that kudr was complaining about
12:21:32 <petern> the blue line is divided by mass to get the acceleration
12:21:46 <petern> there's no point showing it on the graph as mass is constant, so it follows the blue line exactly
12:22:18 <petern> so that means a heavier vehicle can get up to almost the same speed, but it will take longer to do so
12:22:23 <petern> which, to me, sounds correct.
12:23:39 <Zuu> hmm, having OpenTTD on highlight in #openttd is not such a good idea :p
12:24:08 <goodger> really strange thing --- I agree with you
12:24:35 <Zuu> Well I had "OpenTTD Auto Update" on highlight but the client decided to interpret that as three different words.
12:26:46 <goodger> I have just done something equally stupid
12:27:13 <goodger> I found my Examination Statement of Entry, after looking for it for about 15 minutes
12:27:26 <goodger> I found it on the wall, where I had carefully placed it to avoid losing it
12:45:34 <petern> here we go, it works now...
12:46:48 <petern> hmm, not quite right :o
12:47:55 <petern> oh, yes it is, i just put the values in wrong, hah
12:50:56 <petern> if you put a very high mass in, you can see ottd's kick off looking very odd :)
12:51:18 <petern> put 0.03 in for ottd's slopes
12:51:37 <petern> that's another thing, ttdpatch uses 5% not 3% for slopes
12:52:08 <petern> which makes a huge difference
12:52:46 <petern> visually they are 50% ;)
12:52:46 <TrueBrain> 10 / 10000 / 10000 / 0.03 <- that gives a nice OTTD graphs :)
12:53:42 <petern> 10kN TE is pretty tricky with 10kg mass...
12:53:59 <TrueBrain> still .. it goes all red and blue :p
12:56:22 <TrueBrain> I forgot to bring my DVI cable ... now I am down to one screen .. bleh :(
12:56:58 <petern> right, i shall add ttdpatch's model
12:57:07 <petern> and possibly original...
12:57:18 <petern> which kudr said was the most realistic, hahah
12:57:39 <TrueBrain> he really said that? :)
12:57:40 <qball> original is annoying to play
12:57:51 <qball> the train come to a emergency halt on all up slopes
12:58:25 <petern> actually i won't model it because it doesn't use any values like that
12:58:38 <petern> it's just power/mass..., so...
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13:14:50 <joachim> expanding is really hard with cargodest
13:17:35 <TrueBrain> that is the idea ;)
13:18:49 <joachim> but having smaller stations far out in the network doesn't seem to work well
13:19:28 <qball> not cashing in by transporting coal from one corner to the other
13:20:45 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14801 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: don't reference Vehicle::num_orders directly but through a method GetNumOrders() (PhilSophus)
13:21:29 <joachim> im just doing pax/mail for now
13:22:35 <qball> cool if I connect to cibbex1 my openttd locks up hard
13:27:21 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14802 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt saveload.cpp): -Fix [FS#2490]: "(undefined string)" in default savegame/screenshot names when there's no company in the game.
13:30:34 <petern> someone's on a spree today
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13:52:19 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14803 /trunk/src/ (12 files): -Codechange: move order list management into it's own class and remove the order count from the savegame as we can easily count that (PhilSophus)
13:53:35 * petern puts a max rated speed line in
13:55:02 * Rubidium blames the English for inconsistency
13:59:21 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14804 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify opening the OSK (Zuu)
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14:11:51 <petern> we ought to increase slopes....
14:12:06 <petern> 3% is a lot, but not when only a 1/5th of a train is on it
14:12:10 <insulfrog> I have a bit of a question, in the latest ttdpatch nightly, I am having trouble making this GRF from here -> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=634134#p634134 work. I have put the GRF in the 'Newgrf' folder but there is an extra PCX file called 'jsignals_2.pcx' with a jsignals.nfo (which can't be read for some reason). Where do I put this 'jsignals_2.pcx'?
14:12:37 <TrueBrain> channel name: #openttd
14:12:41 <TrueBrain> question related to: ttdpatch
14:12:44 <TrueBrain> doesn't feel right ...
14:12:53 <petern> you don't need those pcx and nfo files, they're just the source of the grf
14:13:56 <insulfrog> Also, have I put the 'jsignals.grf' in the right area?
14:14:19 <petern> did you add it to your newgrf.cfg?
14:16:31 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14805 /trunk/src/bridge_gui.cpp: -Feature [FS#2238]: pressing CTRL while dragging to build a bridge build the last built bridge type if possible (planetmaker)
14:17:07 <petern> did you enable whatever patch options are needed for that feature?
14:17:35 <Rubidium> are there patch options for that?
14:18:48 <petern> there're patch options for everything...
14:20:39 <insulfrog> I believe its part of the 'experimentalfeatures.signalgui' setting (which is on)
14:21:28 <Rubidium> ah... you didn't reply on my commit... then your statements makes a lot more sense
14:23:00 <insulfrog> hmm, does this option -> 'newsignals=on' has anything to do with the problem?
14:23:19 <petern> insulfrog, okay, then i don't know anything more. best off asking ttdpatch people
14:24:11 <insulfrog> is there a seperate IRC channel for ttdpatch or just post the question in the forums?
14:24:45 <petern> there's #tycoon but it's not very often on topic
14:24:48 <petern> best off in the forums
14:28:09 <TrueBrain> bleh, you can't write at a random place in a file when opening with mode "ab"? :s
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14:33:09 <TrueBrain> so you can't append to a file while keeping the ability to walk through the file .. how lovely :s
14:34:15 <Alberth> TrueBrain: well, you can't write at any place if you specified you wanted to append :) Maybe use 'w+b' instead (iirc)
14:34:57 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: then you can't write at the end of the file
14:35:06 <TrueBrain> Alberth: "w+" truncates file
14:35:20 <TrueBrain> "wa" does seem to work .. (but is not really POSIX)
14:35:58 <TrueBrain> hmm .. no, "wa" also truncates
14:36:40 <TrueBrain> weird shit ..... with no clear reason why this is not allowed :(
14:36:52 <SmatZ> can you use open() instead?
14:38:56 <TrueBrain> I can at least try ..
14:40:49 <Alberth> TrueBrain: "rwb" does not truncate
14:41:23 <Alberth> but you have to move the write pointer to the end yourself :)
14:43:00 <Alberth> not here. Unfortunately I have no copy of K&R here :(
14:43:02 <TrueBrain> ah, the return value in that case is always NULL ;)
14:43:37 <TrueBrain> k, fixed that ... but no appending possible
14:43:45 <TrueBrain> you can only write within the segment that is already there
14:44:01 <Alberth> fseek to end, and write (usually)
14:44:56 <TrueBrain> (as that was already there)
14:45:27 <TrueBrain> ftell(), fwrite(), ftell()
14:45:35 <TrueBrain> first and last ftell give same value
14:46:08 <Alberth> I really need K&R :) ok, "rw+b" works here
14:46:27 <TrueBrain> so you didn't really tested it before you told me it works ;)
14:46:55 <Alberth> I tested whether you could write in the file ;)
14:48:12 <TrueBrain> k, tnx, appears to work :)
14:48:21 <SmatZ> "rwb" as well as "rw+b" has undefined behaviour
14:48:31 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: it indeed is far from POSIX ;)
14:49:51 <insulfrog> hmm, I'm not sure what I've done but the problem I had is now fixed :)
14:49:53 <petern> i find it amusing that it accepts those parameters as an array of chars instead of bit flags...
14:50:11 <TrueBrain> I agree with petern :)
14:50:35 <petern> and i am attempting to unravel ttdpatch's acceleration code
14:51:20 <Alberth> petern: they were bit flags in open(), and they are again in ofstream
14:57:14 <TrueBrain> yeah, now I have files with border-coordinates of all countries ..... now I need to overlay that on the maps .. pff ... :p
14:58:26 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: let me try ..
14:58:35 <TrueBrain> when trying that, I forgot to check if the result was NULL, so it segfaulted on that :)
14:58:59 <TrueBrain> (which made me think it failed on tthe first one ;))
15:01:56 <petern> ah, ttdpatch uses kN/256
15:02:10 <petern> so i need to multiply by s.omething silly to get N
15:03:26 <petern> is that like your eleventh finger?
15:03:39 <goodger> no, that's simple algebra
15:03:41 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r14806 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix: MarkAllViewportsDirty() didn't mark dirty whole area when zoomed out, visible by aircraft leaving trails sometimes
15:03:49 <TrueBrain> I think he is a bit off again
15:04:28 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I should get some dinner .. but it is freezing outside ...
15:04:30 <petern> @calc 1000/256 to get N
15:04:30 <DorpsGek> petern: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
15:04:44 <goodger> if Y = 1000X/256, then X = Y*256/1000 = 0.256Y
15:05:34 <TrueBrain> goodger's math is fundumantally flawed ...
15:05:41 <TrueBrain> last night was not a random mistake :)
15:06:11 <goodger> sorry, what part of that is wrong?
15:06:32 <goodger> I just applied the basic algebra I learned aged eleven
15:07:24 <goodger> I'm just not going to talk in here any more
15:07:34 <TrueBrain> that might be better for your ego, yes
15:07:58 <SmatZ> 1 unit = 1000N / 256 = 0.256 N ... so 1 N = 1 unit / 0.256
15:08:07 <SmatZ> now I am as bad as goodger :-x
15:08:34 <SmatZ> ah it's the same, ok :)
15:09:56 <petern> SmatZ: yeah but 0.256Y is not the same as Y/0.256
15:10:40 <thingwath> Y/0.256 is something like 4Y, I hope :o)
15:10:51 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: I am glad you relased you were caluclating N, not 'unit' ;)
15:11:35 <petern> the figure 3.90625 was just above
15:11:35 <Rubidium> goodger: you wanted to calculate YX = 1000X/256 -> Y = 1000/256 -> Y = 3.90...
15:12:04 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: there is no fun in showing his fundumantal flaw :(
15:13:27 <TrueBrain> I am just considering the amount of fun answers you can give, applying goodger's math
15:13:38 <TrueBrain> 2Y = 1000X/256 ... so 0.128Y
15:13:49 <qball> life is a bitch aint it
15:13:51 <TrueBrain> I think I can come up with any amount of answer, which still holds :)
15:15:26 <TrueBrain> I wonder what he would have said when the question was:
15:15:39 <TrueBrain> would that have given '5' as answer?
15:15:43 <Rubidium> like km/3600s = 3.6m/s
15:16:30 <Rubidium> ... like km/3600s = 3.6ms
15:16:42 <goodger> sorry, I don't follow how that's wrong. divide by 2 on both sides to get Y = 1000X/128, then divide 1000 by 128 to get Y = 7.8125X, then divide both sides by 7.8125 to get X = Y/7.8125 = Y * 1/7.8125 = 0.128Y
15:17:28 <TrueBrain> goodger: one useful tip: in no system dividing something by X gives as answer 0.X ...
15:17:50 <goodger> er, I didn't divide by X
15:17:56 <goodger> are you reading the same thing as I type?
15:18:03 <TrueBrain> I doubt you ever read the question
15:18:09 <TrueBrain> well ... that sure explains a few things :)
15:18:55 <goodger> TrueBrain: you said that 2Y = 1000X/256 resolving to 0.128Y was wrong. I went through it very thoroughly and I can't find any error in my algebra
15:19:05 <goodger> would you care to point out the specific error in my algebra?
15:19:18 <Rubidium> goodger: the major problem is that you AGAIN are failing to properly read and understand the question
15:19:19 <TrueBrain> I never said your statement was wrong
15:19:28 <TrueBrain> I just said your statement was fundamantally flawed
15:19:41 <Rubidium> the specific error is the text->math conversion which is fundamentally flawed
15:19:49 <TrueBrain> and pointed out that in your math-world, any amount of answers would hold
15:20:10 <goodger> yes, I reread the _original_ question, in which I reversedly-converted kilonewtons to newtons by dividing by 1000
15:20:35 <goodger> and then you supplied an example of a maths problem and an answer that was supposed to be totally ludicrous based on my logic
15:20:40 <goodger> but my answer was correct
15:20:57 <TrueBrain> I am sure that in some subset of the world you are correct
15:20:59 <goodger> or rather, that answer
15:21:02 <TrueBrain> just it wasn't any answer petern was asking for :)
15:21:08 <Rubidium> you want to know how many N one kN/256 is. To calculate you do NOT use Y = 1000N/256, but you use YN = 1000N/256 (as N is on both sides of the equation, or not... as it's just a "type name")
15:21:17 <goodger> yes, in the subset of the world that you supplied as being absolutely patently incorrect, I was correct
15:21:45 <Rubidium> so your Y = 1000X/256 should've been Y = 1000/256 (or YX = 1000X/256)
15:21:48 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: nah, in his world N holds a true value which can be redused to primes :)
15:22:20 <TrueBrain> I think Newton would die if he hadn't already, by reading this :)
15:22:28 <goodger> I am opposed to being supplied with examples of foolishly incorrect maths that I might produce that are, in fact, correct
15:22:47 <TrueBrain> nobody debated your math; just the origin of your math
15:22:55 <TrueBrain> hence the: fundamentally flawed, part :)
15:23:02 <goodger> and Rubidium: the original problem was to find the value of X, namely the number of newtons, given Y which was the number of kilonewtons multiplied by 256
15:23:22 <goodger> to solve that problem, an X is required in the equation
15:23:39 <Rubidium> goodger: that's where you're wrong
15:23:49 <TrueBrain> '/' and '*' are indeed both multiplications :)
15:24:24 <petern> the full equation is XN = YkN/256
15:24:26 <TrueBrain> yeah, that was what I was asking myself :)
15:24:35 <goodger> in the version of mathematics I was taught, / is division
15:24:46 <petern> XN = Y*1000N/256 -> X = Y*1000/256
15:25:02 <TrueBrain> so again we have 4 people who agree on something ... and one person not agree'ing ... how nice is that :)
15:25:37 <petern> some people do have 11 or 12 fingers
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15:26:52 <TrueBrain> at least I have to give goodger credit ... he does stand for what he believes :p
15:27:33 <TrueBrain> still nowhere in the equations my food-supply problem was solved ...
15:27:41 <goodger> TrueBrain: rather, I am simply trying to indicate that the "fantasyland" equation and solution you constructed was, in fact, correct
15:27:56 <goodger> and I resent you insulting me with it
15:29:03 <TrueBrain> maybe after that reboot, his math does add up ... :p
15:30:09 * Rubidium wants a "peace of cake" ;)
15:30:18 <TrueBrain> lol @ Rubidium, for even finding the right place :p
15:30:28 <TrueBrain> but yeah, I was considering pizza ...
15:30:59 * Rubidium really wonders what a "peace of cake" is
15:31:10 <TrueBrain> miss holland in a cake?
15:31:53 <TrueBrain> a nasty nasty typo ....
15:32:01 <TrueBrain> I think I will call them and ask what it is :p
15:32:39 <Rubidium> "kunt u my vertellen wat een vrede van cake is?"
15:32:51 <TrueBrain> it is Ben & Jerry :p
15:32:55 <TrueBrain> they always have silly things :)
15:33:22 <TrueBrain> anyway, I do wonder why goodger was insulted ... I was just making fun of him ... oh well :)
15:34:26 <yorick> your fun consists out of beating and kicking people.
15:35:22 <Zuu> Wow WidgetFocus patch has went from 900+ rows to 620 rows, by the commit of unified open osk patch. :-)
15:35:28 <petern> please make some stupid statement for us to mock
15:38:19 <Zuu> Though I have about 3 functions to write documentation for, but probably not 100 rows per function :p
15:41:31 <yorick> if I want to zero + resize an array, should I use zeroarraysomehow + ReallocT or free + CallocT?
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15:47:57 <petern> why would you want to zero it?
15:49:49 <SpComb> just use FragmentT(n, b) which allocates n blocks of b bytes which are distributed as evenly as possible over the current heap region
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15:50:37 <petern> create lots of 1 byte files
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16:02:20 <yorick> hack more than just a little bit :p
16:03:14 <petern> and yet another case of a patch doing more than one thing at a time
16:07:11 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r14807 /trunk/src/ (15 files): -Codechange: use INVALID_TILE instead of 0 to mark invalid depots, industries, towns and waypoints
16:07:28 <Aali> so how does that patch work anyway? I haven't tried it
16:07:55 <Wolf01> it allows you to build stargates in your map
16:07:55 <yorick> "The philosophy behind it is that I see tunnels as depots."
16:08:15 <yorick> using ctrl, it allows you to skip one exit and go to the other one
16:08:34 <yorick> I like to see depots as tunnels, not the other way aroud :)
16:08:56 <Aali> so, basically, trains go in on one end and come out the other, possibly out of order?
16:08:57 <yorick> they can't even crash inside a tunnel
16:09:03 <TrueBrain> so I ordered pizza ...... hmm ... /me hungry :)
16:09:32 <yorick> and maybe even multiple at the time :p
16:12:31 <TrueBrain> pizza for everyone!
16:12:31 <Aali> maybe its not such a bad idea after all
16:12:33 <TrueBrain> order one yourself :)
16:12:51 <Aali> but you should of course keep trains in order and not allow more trains than will fit in the tunnel
16:14:02 <Aali> and the whole separate exit/entrance teleport thing has to go
16:15:44 <yorick> the patch is only activated with the crossing tunnels cheat
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16:28:07 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r14808 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r1): coal mine subsidence could wrap around map edges
16:30:06 <Skyruner2> Why does the following code always show STR_FEEDER even if i know (via live debugging) that msg ist set to a different string?
16:30:07 <Skyruner2> StringID msg = STR_FEEDER; SetDParam(0, vehicle); if (income != 0) { if(income == vehicle){ StringID msg = STR_0803_INCOME; SetDParam(0, income); }else{ StringID msg = STR_FEEDER_INCOME; SetDParam(1, income); } } AddTextEffect(msg, pt.x, pt.y, 0x250, TE_RISING);
16:31:18 <SmatZ> because your msg has different scope
16:31:27 <SmatZ> I wonder your compiler doesn't complain
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16:35:37 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14809 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r14802): forgotten !
16:37:42 * yorick looks for ways to catch the error MallocT gives
16:37:42 <TrueBrain> hmm .. that pizza tasted goood!!!
16:40:51 <yorick> meh, it is not a fatal error if you can't reserve enough memory!
16:41:28 <yorick> it's just unfortunate for the user :p
16:42:07 <yorick> not always, just "can't copy area...out of memory" should do
16:42:13 <petern> unless, i suppose, you wanted to allocate 60 thousand jiggabytes
16:43:03 <petern> have you ever got an error from MallocT, using sensible values?
16:43:51 <yorick> heh, it's not my fault if the user wants to duplicate a 2048x2048 map with less than 64MB RAM
16:47:43 <yorick> but not with less than 64MB RAM
16:54:02 <TrueBrain> copy/paste is stupid anyway
16:54:57 <TrueBrain> spoils the game on so many levels ..
16:55:30 <yorick> so you want to move your junction 3 tiles to the left manually?
16:55:42 <TrueBrain> or not move it at all
16:55:52 <TrueBrain> most fun I had was to restruct a running junction, evne more in the coop games
16:56:07 <TrueBrain> it is an art to do that
16:56:08 <yorick> and the stations you need to make bigger :)
16:56:23 <TrueBrain> using some kind of copy/paste shit for it .. well .. it spoils the game
16:56:33 <TrueBrain> for the same reason I am against cooperative AIs, which 'help' you with your network
16:59:28 <yorick> you don't *have* to use it ;)
16:59:55 <TrueBrain> it is not that ... it is the idea of others using that (in MP), which spoils the game for me
17:00:42 <yorick> you can disable it on the server :p
17:00:58 <TrueBrain> you have no idea how easy it is to 'hack' such things ..
17:01:00 <yorick> and then anyone could enable it back again :)
17:01:20 <yorick> just commenting out 2 lines and it works again :/
17:02:39 <yorick> might need another way to do it in MP
17:02:51 <yorick> like transfering the whole template somehow
17:03:50 <petern> server-side copy & paste? heh
17:04:07 <yorick> and maybe download to the clients
17:04:36 <TrueBrain> bleh .. I am going to play Left 4 Dead ;)
17:06:11 <Skyruner2> hehe whats your steam account name?
17:09:45 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14810 /trunk/src/ (music.cpp music.h music_gui.cpp strings.cpp): -Codechange: use the proper style for global variables.
17:10:32 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14811 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Fix: off-by-one causing possible out-of-bounds reads.
17:12:05 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r14812 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use INVALID_TILE instead of 0 to mark company without HQ
17:18:02 <Skyruner2> how do i create a patch /diff file with hg?
17:28:35 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14813 /trunk/src/ (order_base.h order_cmd.cpp os2.cpp): -Codechange: use uint instead of 'just' unsigned.
17:30:57 <edeca> Rubidium: I'm looking at the copypaste patch, it currently has save/load in saveload.cpp but doesn't really use any of the functions. Would it be sensible to move it into copy_paste.cpp and handle everything there?
17:34:14 <edeca> Rubidium: Is there a chance of it getting into trunk if written properly?
17:35:18 <Rubidium> there's always a chance
17:35:37 <yorick> heh, bad choice to ask Rubidium anything :p
17:35:41 <glx> the opposite is also true
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17:42:08 <Monkeyman1> aka package them that I can use them...
17:43:01 <glx> pngcodec them (if not already done), then rename them, then put them in a tar
17:43:53 <Monkeyman1> how can I see the name that its supposed to have...
17:44:03 <Monkeyman1> you mean like 1321.png or something like that right?
17:44:25 <Monkeyman1> how can I identify what the name is? since I need to replace the old one...
17:44:47 <glx> decode original grf with grfcodec
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17:45:50 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> how am I supposed to install the damn thing
17:46:26 <Monkeyman1> ah thank you... I have been trying to figure that out for about two hours :)
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17:46:53 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> I tried it with sudo apt-get install openttd
17:47:08 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> tried it with package reader
17:47:37 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> hang on, its giving me different messages now
17:47:46 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> gonna see what they come up with
17:47:50 <yorick> could not find trg1r.grf?
17:47:56 <Monkeyman1> can I use the linux grfcodec from mac os x?
17:48:16 <glx> may work but I won't bet on it
17:49:04 <Monkeyman1> damn I dont wanna turn on my other computer :P
17:49:15 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> I made a directory and transferred the files stated#
17:49:21 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> but still not working
17:49:38 <yorick> PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn: what does it say?
17:49:55 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> nothing happens
17:50:11 <Alberth> Monkeyman1: build a new one from the source
17:50:15 <yorick> "getting different messages now"?
17:50:43 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> came up with a message about needing files transferred over
17:51:03 <Zuu> What did it say? Did it say a specific path they should be placed in?
17:51:40 <Monkeyman1> Alberth, I might actually do that because the pngcodec did not work either
17:51:51 <Monkeyman1> I tried in the terminal...
17:52:03 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> data files neededx
17:52:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
17:52:27 <Alberth> Monkeyman1: is there any other place you can work than in a terminal? :P
17:52:28 <qball> hmmm is maarten of the servers here?
17:52:33 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> for its operation openttd needs data files from the original transport tycoon deluxe game
17:52:41 <Monkeyman1> Alberth, no idea is there? :P
17:52:59 <Zuu> PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn: Yes, but most likely the apt package want the data-files at a specific location to find them.
17:53:03 <glx> PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn: that's the standard readme
17:53:23 <glx> and it should tell where you need to put files
17:53:29 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> see the usr/share/doc/openttd/readme.debian file for more details about the needed files and their location
17:53:35 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> but theres no readme file
17:53:36 <Zuu> if the apt package looks for them (I didn't knew the apt package did that)
17:54:04 <glx> just put them in ~/.openttd/data
17:54:18 <Rubidium> PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn: the preceding / is important and so is proper capitalisation
17:54:42 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> typing on another PC
17:57:30 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> the onlt thing is the directory is under my user name
17:57:43 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> did mkdir openttd
17:57:55 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> #and then coppied the files into a folder marked data
17:58:18 <glx> it's ".openttd" not "openttd"
17:58:27 <Zuu> PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn: there are at least one GPL licensed program that let you share keyboard, mouse and copy/paste between computers on a safe LAN. Which might be of help for you.
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18:00:39 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> ok, just logged on on the other PC
18:00:51 <PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn> can paste what I get direct that way
18:00:58 *** PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn has quit IRC
18:01:55 <Clinically_Insane> if I restart all of this
18:02:10 <Clinically_Insane> deleteding the .openttd folder
18:02:18 <Clinically_Insane> and starting a complete reinstall
18:03:20 <Clinically_Insane> do I make this folder first??
18:04:57 <Clinically_Insane> obviously i'm screwing up somewhere along the lines of this installation
18:05:03 <Zuu> I would say it doesn't matter when you make .openttd. But I've not used any package manager ever to install OpenTTD.
18:05:07 <Clinically_Insane> so wondering where it is and how to get past it
18:05:27 <Zuu> What do you do, and what issues do you get?
18:05:48 <Clinically_Insane> I tried installing via sudo apt-get openttd
18:05:59 <Clinically_Insane> and it says about the files and thats it
18:06:22 <mrfrenzy> Clinically_Insane: easiest is to just put the data files in /usr/share/games/openttd/data
18:06:23 <Clinically_Insane> should explain I'm new to linux, only been using it for a day now
18:06:32 <mrfrenzy> that directory shoiuld be created automatically when you install the game
18:06:37 <Clinically_Insane> ok/i'll open that
18:07:02 <glx> you need sudo to change this dir
18:07:04 <Monkeyman1> glx, when putting the png into the tar should I add it sprites/trg1r/*.png
18:10:19 <gynter> i can't find grf nfo wiki docs anymore :S
18:11:19 <Clinically_Insane> ive got a openttd file in /usr/share/games, but notm a directory
18:11:34 <gynter> great, why did I think that i saw it in openttd wiki...
18:11:50 <Zuu> Clinically_Insane: Just checked with my lenny (debian) box and it also uses 0.6.2-R1 in apt. If you intend to play multiplayer I suggest you install 0.6.3 instead.
18:12:15 <gynter> hmh. Long Vechiles 4 replaces some trams, thats not good
18:12:42 <Clinically_Insane> apt-get remove then download 0.6.3 and install with package manager??
18:13:02 <Zuu> remove openttd with apt-get.
18:13:23 <Zuu> If there is a .deb for 0.6.3 you can use it.
18:13:45 <Rubidium> Zuu: there's one on the openttd website
18:14:09 <gynter> hmh odd, i have 0.6.3-1 repos
18:14:14 <Rubidium> or use the one from debian sid
18:15:01 <Zuu> Yep, saw there is one deb for etch and one for lenny.
18:15:12 <Monkeyman1> what program can I use to make tar files?
18:15:12 <Clinically_Insane> downloading and installing 0.6.3
18:15:32 <Clinically_Insane> For its operation, OpenTTD needs the data files from the original Transport Tycoon Deluxe game.
18:15:32 <Clinically_Insane> See the /usr/share/doc/openttd/README.Debian file for more details about the needed files and their location.
18:16:00 <Zuu> Yep, and you have placed the files there?
18:16:11 <Clinically_Insane> not yet as theres no folder to put them in
18:16:16 <Zuu> Then all you should do is to execute openttd
18:16:32 <glx> just put them in ~/.openttd/data
18:16:42 <Monkeyman1> Zuu, what do you mean? thats the name of the program?
18:16:46 <Clinically_Insane> do i need to create a folder in /usr/share/games/
18:17:07 <glx> Clinically_Insane: <+glx> just put them in ~/.openttd/data
18:17:08 <Zuu> Unless you have many users ~/.openttd/data works even better I would say.
18:17:37 <Zuu> As you have write permission to put downloaded extra grfs there if you want.
18:17:47 <Clinically_Insane> theres only 3-4 users on this pc
18:17:56 <Clinically_Insane> i've just found the folder
18:18:05 <Clinically_Insane> copy/pasting the extra files now
18:18:43 <Zuu> Monkeyman1: on linux there is a program that is named "tar" you can find tar.exe in some unix-kits for windows. Or you can check 7zip. 7zip at least unzips .tar.gz files.
18:19:33 <Clinically_Insane> its not letting me paste the files in
18:19:58 <glx> you need to do it with sudo
18:20:17 <Clinically_Insane> whats the command for that
18:20:32 <Zuu> put sudo before your desired comand
18:20:40 <glx> sudo cp trg*.grf /usr/...
18:20:49 <Zuu> or just use the command su to become super-user.
18:21:04 <Monkeyman1> I am on mac os x or on vista... and I cant find a program that encodes to tar
18:21:25 <glx> on mac I'm quite sure there is tar
18:21:41 <glx> on vista you can use 7-zip
18:21:46 <Monkeyman1> extracting yes but encoding I cant find it
18:21:55 <Zuu> Monkeyman1: tar is an archive format, not something openttd has invented for image encoding.
18:22:12 <glx> tar is a very old format :)
18:22:43 <Clinically_Insane> ben@ben-desktop:~$ sudo cp tgr1.grf /usr/share/games/openttd/data
18:22:43 <Clinically_Insane> cp: cannot stat `tgr1.grf': No such file or directory
18:23:02 <glx> Clinically_Insane: trg != tgr
18:23:28 <glx> Clinically_Insane: use TAB key to autocomplete filenames
18:24:07 <glx> you may need to do ./tr<TAB>
18:24:34 <Clinically_Insane> is it due to them being on the cd still??
18:25:04 <glx> you misstyped the filename :)
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18:25:11 <Clinically_Insane> the first time
18:25:20 <Clinically_Insane> when I tried it with the correct filename same thing
18:25:56 *** Skyruner2 has joined #openttd
18:26:03 <glx> hmm looks like DOS cd, so names are in caps
18:26:58 <Clinically_Insane> the names aren't displayed in caps here
18:27:28 *** yorick_ has joined #openttd
18:27:35 <Zuu> so you can see them in your home directory when you do a "ls" with lower case?
18:27:54 <Alberth> to be on the safe side: ls ~
18:28:01 <Monkeyman1> thanks 7-zip worsk :D
18:30:26 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r14814 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:30:26 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-03 18:29:54
18:30:26 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 9 fixed by khaloofah (9)
18:30:26 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 9 fixed by tucalipe (9)
18:30:26 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: dutch - 9 fixed by Excel20 (9)
18:30:27 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: french - 10 fixed, 1 changed by glx (11)
18:30:29 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: hebrew - 31 fixed by EScake (31)
18:30:49 <Clinically_Insane> got it sorted
18:30:55 <Clinically_Insane> all files transfered
18:31:09 <Clinically_Insane> copied them to a folder in /home
18:31:28 <Clinically_Insane> then copied them from there to the data file
18:31:47 <Clinically_Insane> whats the music file
18:31:52 <Clinically_Insane> is that the gm.cat??
18:32:32 <glx> openttd doesn't know how to use gm.cat
18:32:55 <Clinically_Insane> thanks for the help
18:33:09 <TrueBrain> that will be 5 euros; don't worry, we will send you a bill ;)
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18:34:18 <TrueBrain> [18:06] <Skyruner2> hehe whats your steam account name? <- I have an xbox :)
18:42:57 <Zuu> Compiling OpenTTD on 1,33 GHz / 256kB L2 cache is so sloooow :(
18:43:12 <TrueBrain> don't worry; it is slow on any machine ;)
18:44:01 <TrueBrain> longer than I would want to wait :)
18:44:15 <glx> and compare it with time needed for a MSVC release build
18:44:16 <Zuu> well, on a 2.0+ GHz you at least get about double speed.
18:44:32 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r14815 /trunk/ (12 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: separate 'highscore' code from 'company' code
18:44:39 <Zuu> yea, MSVC release is not fun..
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18:50:41 <gynter> is it possible to define a value with action6 which will be the first ID of vechile and other IDs will be incremented from the action6 value?
18:51:35 <gynter> if I define action6 value as 44 then first is 44, second 45, third 46 etc, but if i define action6 as 43, then first is 43, second 44, third 45 etc
18:52:28 <petern> TrueBrain: 15 seconds isn't very long
18:55:21 <petern> if you code the nfo properly, vehicle IDs will automatically be sequential
18:55:59 <gynter> eq, If I have a grf, which replaces roadv 44 to 4A and another one which replaces 44 to 4A, but I want this another one to replace 4B to 51
18:56:11 <TrueBrain> petern: show-off ;)
18:56:27 <gynter> so I could define the other start ID as grf action6 value
18:57:02 <petern> what you want to do is:
18:57:27 <petern> set param blah to id-offset
18:57:49 <petern> then use action 6 to apply that offset to all your action 0/3/4s where needed
19:00:14 <gynter> i don't know how to do this :)
19:00:21 <gynter> otherwise I wouldn't ask :P
19:00:31 <petern> hmm, but that is how you do it...
19:01:04 <petern> action 7, action D and action 6
19:01:36 <TrueBrain> I wanted to type boundaries :)
19:02:09 <petern> that map needs the 'non-sea edges' patch
19:02:38 <TrueBrain> but soon it won't :p
19:02:46 <TrueBrain> as I plan to cut on those nice borders :)
19:02:50 <TrueBrain> if I had any idea how .... :p
19:03:02 <petern> just fix up that patch and don't worry ;)
19:03:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that patch would be a nice addition
19:03:27 <gynter> why do I need action7 for?
19:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> gynter: action 7 to check if the other grf is active
19:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause> action D to set the variable
19:04:21 <TrueBrain> k ... I need a flooding algorithm, which floods everything inside the lines :p
19:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> action 6 to read the variable and change the value
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19:17:24 <petern> what does lea edx,[edx+eax*4] do?
19:17:56 <SmatZ> petern: edx = edx + eax * 4
19:20:49 <petern> so it magically does what it says in the tin, in one instruction
19:22:09 <TrueBrain> okay ... I have a region, which is build up from latitude/longitude coordinates ...
19:22:21 <TrueBrain> I need a routine which finds a points which is in the center of this region
19:22:26 <TrueBrain> anyone any bright ideas?
19:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: what happened to sum(points)/number?
19:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> where "points" are all points in the area
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19:27:37 <TrueBrain> I can draw you regions where that does not give a point inside the area :)
19:27:54 <TrueBrain> take a slightly weird shaped triangle ..
19:28:13 <TrueBrain> well, in fact, I don't really need the center
19:28:17 <TrueBrain> just any real point inside the region
19:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you determine if a point is inside the region?
19:29:07 <TrueBrain> that is kind of my question ;)
19:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> so what you really want is a constructive variant of the axiom of choice :p
19:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the axiom of choice says: "there is a function which maps every set to a member of that set"
19:30:55 <TrueBrain> the image I just gave, it contains points of the border. I just made those points lines, but now I need a method to find any point inside the region, so I can flood the inside of the region; that way I can cut out everything that is not part of what I want :)
19:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with that axiom is its non-constructiveness, it does not say how to find such a function
19:31:23 <TrueBrain> a human can always tell what is inside a region ... in math, it is much more tricky :(
19:31:55 <TrueBrain> 2 years ago I used this method to just do what you said, well .. sort of anyway
19:32:07 <TrueBrain> but it turns out the database I use has A LOT of regions where this points is on the wrong side :p
19:32:09 <Eddi|zuHause> which is why some mathematicians decide to deny this axiom at all
19:33:24 <Alberth> TrueBrain, Eddi|zuHause: walk from the point to some point definitely outside. Count the # borders that you encounter, if it odd, you were inside.
19:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so, you have a polygon, which is given by a list of vertices, now you want to find a point that is inside the polygon
19:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and any point will do?
19:34:58 <TrueBrain> Alberth: that method fails too, in some weird shapes (which sadly enough is also in this set) .. but I remember I did try to make that to work .. I just failed somewhere :p haha :)
19:35:20 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: any point, yes, as long as it isn't at the border (and is a valid point in my lowest-resolution set)
19:36:01 <TrueBrain> the time it takes to find this point is also not important; it is a one-time job
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19:36:25 <glx> [20:07:17] <TrueBrain> effective .. <-- DorpsGek should do it by itself :)
19:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause> is it guranteed to be continguous?
19:36:38 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I would like to think so ...
19:36:51 <TrueBrain> some regions are VERY small, and appear not to be
19:36:57 <TrueBrain> but I think we can manually remove such regions anyway
19:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you think of real countries, there are occasionally ones that are not continguous
19:37:52 <Eddi|zuHause> like in germany, Bremen is not
19:37:57 <TrueBrain> one country can exist of multiple regions
19:38:15 <TrueBrain> the dataset defines that the last point of the dataset is always the first point, and that is indicates a closed region
19:38:25 <TrueBrain> but .. I know for sure that is not true ;) But ignore those instances :) (I just remove them :p)
19:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not really something to worry about, just wanted to check ;)
19:39:36 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: glx * r14816 /trunk/src/ (network/network_gui.cpp settings_gui.cpp): -Fix: signed/unsigned warnings (MSVC)
19:42:07 <TrueBrain> if (ny <- image->iheight) <0 nice typo
19:42:39 <joachim> do you need to check for just one arbitrary point at a time?
19:47:31 <Yexo> TrueBrain: if you just want any point within a region, can you not simply draw a line through the region, and choose the point halfway the first two corssing of the borders with your line?
19:48:05 <Alberth> Yexo, region is not always convex
19:48:17 <joachim> is to point to find any point inside, or determine whether any point is inside?
19:48:30 <TrueBrain> to find _any_ (1) point inside
19:48:47 <TrueBrain> or, for all I care: _any_ (1) point outside
19:49:07 <TrueBrain> the latter only makes it slightly more complex :)
19:49:11 <Yexo> Alberth: does that matter?
19:49:47 <Yexo> TrueBrain: can you give an example?
19:50:03 <TrueBrain> but I trashed all my old work ;)
19:51:09 <TrueBrain> ah, the 'ray' problem was when it hit a line that was paralel (and at the position) of the ray
19:51:18 <TrueBrain> then detection is fucked ;)
19:51:53 <TrueBrain> on which also your idea fails Yexo
19:52:14 <joachim> and you need this to start the drawing? i guess you're not planning to 'actually' flood the regions :P
19:52:26 <Alberth> glx: how do you get a signed/unsigned warning with this? "i < vscroll.pos + vscroll.cap" all vars are unsigned.
19:52:33 <TrueBrain> I really flood the regions .. just virtual ;)
19:52:58 <glx> Alberth: uint+uint -> int
19:53:05 <Yexo> TrueBrain: that depends, as it can work with any arbitrary line (the angledoesn't matter) you can just preprocess all border lines and chose a line that is not paralel to any existing line
19:53:51 <joachim> there are not that many regions though, not much work to just set some coords manually
19:54:07 <TrueBrain> joachim: my dataset defines around 10000 regions
19:54:10 <TrueBrain> you feel up to that task?
19:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: can't you just pick a point next to the border, flood-fill, and check if that flood hits the map edge?
19:55:01 <joachim> it will hit all edges even if it's outside
19:55:06 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: hmm ... 'sandbox' the image and flood it at any random point ..
19:55:08 <TrueBrain> now there is an idea ..
19:55:27 <TrueBrain> if the map-edge is reached, invert the flood
19:55:34 <TrueBrain> pick any point fromt he flooded area
19:55:38 <TrueBrain> and it should always be a point inside :)
19:56:25 <TrueBrain> not really fast ... but for sure simplistic :)
19:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, other option would be to triangulate the entire polygon, and then check for each resulting triangle, if it contains an inner point
19:58:01 <TrueBrain> I remember clearly there was an area in germany that 'leaked'
19:58:06 <TrueBrain> let me see if I can still find that point ..
19:58:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's the fault of your dataset, not of the algorithm...
19:59:05 <Yexo> after thinking a bit about it, I don't see why my idea fails if you just ignore all border lines paralel to the chosen line
19:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and can't you manually "close" that dataset by appending the start point at the end again?
19:59:20 <TrueBrain> Yexo: detecting that tiny fact is _very_ hard
19:59:30 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, but there was somethins epcial here ..
19:59:32 <TrueBrain> let me look up the image ..
19:59:42 <TrueBrain> (I try to reach in my memory of 2 years back, so it is a bit fuzzy ;))
19:59:50 <ctibor> Is there someone who plans to implement tekky's bidirectional tracks or is it such a huge task that nobody is willing to make it? (myself "no coder" :-(( )
19:59:51 <Yexo> TrueBrain: what? detecting whether two lines are paralel is simple
19:59:57 <TrueBrain> Yexo: in general, yes
20:00:00 <TrueBrain> with coordinates: no
20:00:04 <TrueBrain> 'resolution' is a big factor here
20:00:26 <TrueBrain> your suggested method returned a point on a line at certain resolutions
20:00:27 <Alberth> glx: due to the uint16 vars, apparently. Tnx
20:00:29 <TrueBrain> no matter what I tried ;)
20:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ctibor: the main problem there is to create an efficient reservation storage and lookup, because the track reservations cannot be stored in the map anymore
20:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the same tile might be reserved by multiple vehicles
20:01:32 <ctibor> Eddi|zuHause: Yes I read about it, that it is suggested to meke some graphs to store information needed
20:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause> for different levels of reservation
20:02:04 <Yexo> TrueBrain: I think I miss some vital information on your problem here. Are all lines a integer coordinates or so?
20:02:11 <TrueBrain> hmm .. the code for germany is not DE, nor GR ... hmm ..
20:02:19 <TrueBrain> Yexo: no, floats of course
20:03:04 <ctibor> It's shame, that feature will be absolutely killer for me :-)
20:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> ctibor: i don't recall anyone explicitly saying he would work on that
20:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> but nobody was saying that he worked on YAPP, either :p
20:05:04 <ctibor> Eddi|zuHause: Seems like that unless I will learn programming (which will happen not in near 30 years), nobody will implement this ;-)
20:05:26 <TrueBrain> k ... lets try the sandbox idea :) (takes an hour or so to program)
20:06:33 <ctibor> If it only could be written in bash, than there will be some small hope for me :-)
20:06:54 <ctibor> Eddi|zuHause: But enough and thanks for the info :-)
20:07:13 <petern> language isn't important, it's the methods that need thought
20:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause> waaaaaaah... the green is too bright... after minimising the window, the whole screen looks red (where it was white before)
20:07:40 <petern> Eddi|zuHause, that's just screen burn ;)
20:07:49 <joachim> i sometimes decide to do stuff in bash just for the limitations and challenges i'll have to overcome to make things work
20:08:24 <ctibor> petern: Ok, you are right, but that's also the problem, I don't have algoritmic brain :-)
20:08:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't like limitations and challenges
20:08:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i like theories and algorithms
20:08:38 <TrueBrain> hmm ... one other problem... if in the data file is a region, and a center point ... and that center point is outside the current image ..
20:08:42 <TrueBrain> no idea how to fix thatone yet :s
20:09:59 <ctibor> Algorithms fascinates me :-) That's all I have common with them ;-)
20:10:20 <Sacro> limitation disturbs me very sprites
20:10:24 <Sacro> goes throw out limitation?
20:12:57 <joachim> Eddi|zuHause: so you code theoretic applications in theoretic mathematics? or just play with cellular automata?
20:13:19 <joachim> well, they provide challenges as well
20:13:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i code in python, currently
20:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause> source code analyses
20:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> abstractions of program flows
20:14:23 <joachim> and you don't like challenges?
20:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> to prepare for model checking
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20:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause> joachim: not if it involves getting the compiler to understand what i was thinking, or reading long list of poorly documented library contents to find what i need
20:15:52 <Alberth> joachim: programming in Python has very few challenges w.r.t. the language, at least
20:16:44 <TrueBrain> last week someone said to me, while I was browsing through some python code of mine: is that PHP? It looks like PHP?
20:16:56 <TrueBrain> I don't see how any person who knows a tiny bit about program languages, can confuse PHP for Python ..
20:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it looks as much like PHP as it looks like any other language
20:17:40 * Rubidium would confuse sparc assembly with arm assembly too
20:17:52 <TrueBrain> the syntax is widely different
20:18:22 <TrueBrain> they all contain letters ...
20:18:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but an "outsider" sees words like "class", or operators like "==", and then almost every language looks the same
20:18:35 <Alberth> Rubidium: you want to borrow my arm assembly language book? :P
20:19:15 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: not to mention they all use indentation at the same points in the program
20:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Python is a really nice language, but you soon need to learn to behave yourself with abusing some language features
20:21:19 <Rubidium> C/C++ gives me enough power and control
20:21:25 <TrueBrain> like any other language ;)
20:22:07 <petern> maybe i should finish working out what ttdpatch is doing :o
20:22:41 * Belugas sends some tea off to petern
20:22:50 <TrueBrain> Belugas!!!!!!!!!!11111111111 :)
20:27:53 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I can't get 'mercurial' to ignore a given file, but not the dir of the same name ...
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20:31:18 <ctibor> Ok, i will leave now but you know, think about it ;-)
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20:56:26 <petern> ttdpatch style seems to be working
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20:58:15 <petern> i fail to understand patch's incline code :o
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21:08:13 <Rubidium> customers on a saturday? Useless people customers
21:08:49 <Prof_Frink> petern: Have you tried raising patchy in #tycoon?
21:09:01 <petern> let me upload these changes :D
21:09:59 <TrueBrain> my flooding algorithm appears to do something ..
21:10:01 <TrueBrain> just not what I want ;)
21:11:01 <petern> along with a max rated speed marker
21:12:29 <Belugas> it's the fault of the installation team. they fucked up
21:12:54 <Belugas> and i need to clean up their mess
21:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, lots of 3's as prime factors ;)
21:15:35 <Rubidium> so TTDP's blue curve drops too fast and OTTD's blue curve drops too slow
21:16:05 <petern> depends on the values given
21:16:05 <Rubidium> hmm.. or OpenTTD's one starts too high and the red one too low
21:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> ttdp's curve seems very... bumpy...
21:16:29 <Rubidium> 409t, 8 MW, 300 kN TE, 100 m/s, 0.03 incline
21:17:03 <Rubidium> (i.e. ICE3 without DC motor)
21:17:38 <petern> i didn't add ttdpatch's drag coefficient
21:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the max speed line is almost invisible...
21:19:33 <Rubidium> hmm... why's max achievable speed less than max operational speed?
21:20:12 <petern> unless you mean with no slope
21:20:17 <petern> in which case the drag values are wrong
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21:20:51 <petern> with ttdpatch's default drag for a 100m/s train, it reaches max speed
21:20:52 <Rubidium> with incline 0 it has around 90 m/s achievable speed
21:21:02 <petern> goes up to 110 m/s here, let me add that in
21:21:58 <Rubidium> ICE's 3 operational speed is ~92 m/s, max speed ~102 (according to wiki/specs)
21:22:30 <Rubidium> with your graphs at level: 85 m/s for simple and 89 m/s for (O)TTD(P)
21:23:15 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: funny enough .... even the sandbox method manages to pick points which are very tricky ;)
21:24:10 <Eddi|zuHause> well, just try 3 points, and pick the one that finishes first
21:24:34 <TrueBrain> for some reason some points finish too soon :(
21:25:42 <Rubidium> hmm... and incline of -1 is funny
21:27:48 <Rubidium> with negative incline's OpenTTD's one is (much) closer than TTDPatch's one
21:28:52 <TrueBrain> outside the image :o :o :o
21:29:07 <petern> ttdpatch default air drag done
21:29:32 <Prof_Frink> In a tunnel or not?
21:30:19 <petern> i should fix it, some dodgy values can lead to infinite loops ;)
21:31:25 <TrueBrain> it wasn't really a question :p
21:32:10 <TrueBrain> tnx Eddi|zuHause ;) (and the rest)
21:32:36 <TrueBrain> hmm .. sometimes it still leaks ...
21:33:23 <Eddi|zuHause> something is not right... when i change the incline, the graphs do not change...
21:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, it doesn't like "%" in it ;)
21:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause> NOO... "Service Unavailable" :p
21:37:52 <TrueBrain> how to fix leaks ......
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21:50:51 <Nite_Owl> Hello all and a belated Happy New Year
21:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: is there a feature planned where you can rotate these maps 45°? because the game rotates them 45° back
21:55:02 <TrueBrain> not really, as that looks kind of ugly ;)
21:59:54 <gynter> hello, why I can't see any grf files, when running server on cli?
22:01:05 <gynter> should I use full paths?
22:01:36 <petern> Rubidium, fixed... it won't lock up now
22:03:20 <petern> what do you expect to see?
22:03:40 <gynter> I have grf files in config, but when I run server those aren't there
22:04:09 <petern> if grf files are in data/ then specify just the grf filename
22:04:44 <gynter> i have config file as root directory where i run openttd -c conf.file and grfs are in data/
22:05:35 <Eddi|zuHause> is that the old "realistic" or the newly tweaked version?
22:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> not talking to you ;)=
22:09:21 <Belugas> mmh... something is really fucked up. INVALID DATA
22:09:35 <Belugas> maybe the processor has not been correctly configured then :(
22:09:59 <Belugas> fun whan you can only do that between customers :(
22:10:12 <gynter> is the data directory /usr/share/games/openttd/ hardcoded?
22:11:04 <petern> sometimes i get INVALID DATA when testing with 4444333322221111...
22:18:06 <gynter> hmh, just can't get it, works fine if I host server in-game
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22:20:31 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r14817 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.h tar_type.h): -Cleanup: unify the place where the @file header is placed
22:21:42 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r14818 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r14723): add network_base.h to source.list and project files
22:23:21 <Prof_Frink> I was thinking Nirvana.
22:23:35 <petern> you were thinking of the cover, weren't you?
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22:26:39 <TrueBrain> Germany still leaks ..
22:26:55 <joachim> still with the flooding?
22:26:58 <AmanoJaku> Stupid connection. Seems to enjoy cutting me off over and over.
22:27:05 <TrueBrain> yup .. takes for ever to get right ;)
22:30:09 <joachim> is the daylength patched being considered for trunk?
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22:35:04 <Rubidium> because it breaks the whole economy
22:36:45 <joachim> but maybe the problems should be made dynamic so to fit the daylength patch or other modifications
22:37:12 <petern> a dynamic problem is a problem solved?
22:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the daylength patch startet out as a hack and did not evolve much beyond that
22:37:26 <joachim> the problem areas, sorry
22:37:41 <TrueBrain> hmm .. my sandbox idea sometimes requires ..
22:37:42 <joachim> i know it is alot of work
22:37:47 <TrueBrain> @calc 20000 * 20000 / 1024 / 1024
22:37:47 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 381.469726562
22:37:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it was never clearly defined, which parts of the game should be considered day based
22:38:11 <joachim> is that a daylenght patch problem or a game problem?
22:38:19 <petern> TrueBrain, just use bytes that can store 2^9 or more!
22:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, the patch should become even bigger, by making more scales of the game configurable
22:38:35 <TrueBrain> :) I should ask googder ...
22:38:51 <petern> why not continue, surely if you can fit 2^9 into 2^8 then you can fit 2^12 into 2^11 into 2^10 into 2^9...
22:39:20 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: some people actually tried to patent that :p
22:39:47 <joachim> the game time was designed for 256x256 maps...
22:40:32 <joachim> decades will pass while creating or redesigning networks now
22:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause> take a compression algorithm that reduces the size of each string by 1 bit
22:40:50 <TrueBrain> Informatic Theorem ;)
22:40:56 <TrueBrain> (or how ever you write that in english)
22:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and apply that recursively :p
22:41:03 <Rubidium> joachim: it takes decades in real life too
22:41:38 <joachim> it does, but a decade in the game is missing 1/7 of the game
22:41:53 <joachim> in single player at least
22:42:02 <gynter> uhm, why server doesn't read [pathces] on cli with -c flag?
22:42:33 <joachim> in real life running a rail company takes thousands of people, Rubidium
22:42:42 <joachim> that's not what we want, is it? ;)
22:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you can use AIs for that :p
22:43:41 <haXs> quick question, is anyone able to take a screenshot from the console of a linux server?
22:43:51 <haXs> iv found that i no longer can
22:44:19 <joachim> there are probably millions on google images
22:44:28 <haXs> im useing 0.6.3 compiled from source
22:44:47 <haXs> sorry i mean i cant take them from my server, useing the screenshot command or even via rcon
22:45:04 <Alberth> haXs: ksnapshot? gimp?
22:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause> haXs: that is because the dedicated server does not draw anything
22:45:15 <TrueBrain> it was never meant to work, to make screenshots from a dedicated server
22:45:58 <haXs> it always used to in older versions
22:46:37 <TrueBrain> I always considered that a bug ;)
22:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> haXs: that was "fixed" ;)
22:46:55 <TrueBrain> haXs: the dedicated server is much faster when it draws as little as possible :)
22:46:59 <Alberth> gynter: -c flag is for giving an alternative place for an entire openttd.cfg file, not for just for patches (or pathces)
22:47:17 <gynter> i have full cfg, but [pathces] isn't read
22:47:27 <gynter> difficulty and patches are default values
22:47:33 <gynter> bur [network] is correct
22:47:40 <Rubidium> gynter: that's because OpenTTD doesn't read the [pathces] section
22:47:41 <TrueBrain> because it should read [patches] ;)
22:48:07 <Rubidium> haXs: try changing the blitter
22:48:09 <haXs> thanks for clearing that up for me anway
22:48:35 <gynter> thou if I use same config to creater server without -D it works fine
22:49:08 <TrueBrain> if you really want to ...
22:49:42 <Alberth> gynter: you'll have to wait until yorick is back
22:49:56 <gynter> got the source of my problem
22:50:03 <gynter> i use the scenario file..
22:52:29 *** dageek is now known as DaGeek
22:53:25 <DaGeek> just after some info about ripping some game stats out of a running game
22:54:31 <Zuu> Then OpenTTDLib might be what you are looking for
22:56:35 <DaGeek> i have managed to get some details out of a running game using AutoPilot, I added a few Modz to AP and have got some .sh/.tcl scripts to pull out some info
22:57:03 <DaGeek> the info i am after is the 'Detailed Performance Rating' that can been seen in-game..
22:57:23 <Zuu> OpenTTDLib gets mostly what is available on server page on www.openttd.org
22:57:27 <DaGeek> but i would like to get this data out of the game so that i can create a 'high score' system..
22:57:55 <DaGeek> I have got all that data already via tcl & php
22:58:05 <DaGeek> and also php using raw UDP Sockets...
22:58:23 <Zuu> OpenTTDLib is a library that does just that.
22:59:11 <DaGeek> then like i say, I can already do what OpenTTDLib does....
22:59:53 <DaGeek> i just want to pull the Preformance rating stuff as well, since this is the only way i can see to 'score' the users of my server..
22:59:56 <Zuu> For performance rating you probably has to make a custom built server that either adds a dedicated server command to get the rating or using some other interface.
23:00:37 <DaGeek> can the dedicated server pull this info and display it on the console of hte server already ?
23:01:06 <DaGeek> i guess it must be in there somewhere as it is shown tot he end user in-game..
23:01:17 <Zuu> I don't think so, but haven't checked myself.
23:01:23 <DaGeek> i just need to know how i can access the info that is being shown tot he end user
23:01:41 <Zuu> I think you either have to find someone willing to share code for what you need or code it yourself.
23:01:58 <Zuu> Kurt is a multiplayer server that has something similar.
23:02:45 <DaGeek> Kurt isnt online @ the mo...
23:03:01 <DaGeek> do you happen to know a www page for him that i might be able to look @ ?
23:03:03 <Zuu> Okay, and kurt himself is unreachable?
23:03:25 <Zuu> no, I don't know how to contact him.
23:03:32 <DaGeek> i have done some Google'in and have not found any scorein system for OTTD...
23:03:54 <Zuu> Don't even know what his user name on tt-forums is, but try search for users with "kurt" in the name.
23:05:21 <DaGeek> umm, might have to go for a hunt and see if i can find him, see how he is doing it..
23:05:56 <Zuu> Or if you know C++ take a look at the code straight ahead. :)
23:11:00 <DaGeek> thank all for your help, im off to
23:11:30 <petern> hmm, VT-95 doesn't get up to speed in any graph :/
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23:14:20 <Alberth> ah, you are talking about a locomotive, not a serial computer terminal
23:14:50 <petern> ah, MB tweaked the air drag to make it work, heh
23:15:12 <Alberth> I needed 5 minutes to discover that :)
23:16:14 <petern> but you typed your line only 2 minutes after mine
23:16:32 <Alberth> hmm, I need to go to bed :)
23:17:07 <Alberth> anyway, how do you add two new sprites for the gui to openttd?
23:20:20 <Alberth> I hope so, doping this patch sequence for the 4th time already
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23:25:42 <Alberth> the images are simple 11x11 circular sprites and should present no problem. However I have literally no idea how or where to tell the program that I have two new sprites for use in the gui drawing. A seperate GRF file won't work (it is not guaranteed to be always there), are there other options or should I fall back to drawing a lot of lines at the proper place (which I do now)?
23:26:14 <Alberth> ie like the [<] and [>] buttons
23:28:01 <Rubidium> Alberth: checkout extra/ottd_grf
23:28:55 <Rubidium> then add the two sprites to split/openttdgui.pcx and to split/openttdgui.nfo (also increment the count in the action 5 by 2)
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23:30:34 <Rubidium> in trunk open table/sprites.h, increment OPENTTD_SPRITE_COUNT by 2 and add two enums for both sprites with SPR_OPENTTD_BASE + index_of_sprite (147 and 148 in this case)
23:31:18 <Rubidium> and in the ottd_grf you can generate openttd[dw].grf using make and copy those to trunk/bin/data
23:33:12 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14819 /trunk/src/ (order_gui.cpp timetable_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Change: make details and order menu stickyable, like the timetable window. Also let the detail/order/timetable window close eachther, like the detail and order windows already did, when not stickied.
23:33:41 <Rubidium> then for the patch attach the new pcx and the diff of ottd_grf (as the pcx won't be in the diff)
23:40:41 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14820 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp querystring_gui.h): -Codechange: use (the correct) enum-type instead of just int (Zuu)
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23:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can i teach opensuse, instead of invoking the oom-killer, to add a swapfile?
23:44:45 <entropy> how can i adjust a number of industries/towns in dedicated server?
23:45:55 <Rubidium> by changing the difficulty settings for the number of industries/towns
23:47:30 <Rubidium> you don't need the gui to change difficulty settings
23:48:40 <entropy> hm is it number_towns and number_industries?
23:49:17 <entropy> i changed it and it doesnt' work
23:49:19 <Rubidium> don't know that by heart; just look it up in the wiki
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23:50:21 <Eddi|zuHause> entropy: you need to set diff_level to 3
23:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should add that to your script :p
23:55:05 <entropy> things like "0,0,3,1,300,2,1,2,0,1,4,0,1,1,1,1,0,1" are slightly non-obvious x|
23:55:29 <Alberth> Rubidium: the openttdgui.pcx file seems to have 147 and 148 already in use. the .nfo also has two entries at those positions
23:55:33 <Rubidium> then use a more recent version of OpenTTD
23:56:10 <Rubidium> Alberth: sprites 0 and 1 are "metadata", which does not count towards the real sprites count
23:58:34 <Rubidium> in the nightlies it's (much) more obvious what the numbers mean
23:58:57 <glx> entropy: the wiki has all the fields detailed IIRC
23:59:54 <entropy> cool, but i prefer the stable versions
continue to next day ⏵
