IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-12-26
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01:21:44 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
01:21:59 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 14285.7142857
01:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 10**6/70/3600
01:22:07 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 3.96825396825
01:46:06 <Eddi|zuHause> merry second christmas day
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01:54:40 <fjb> Thank you. Did OwenS shoot anybody?
01:59:13 <SmatZ> I think he shot himself
01:59:29 <SmatZ> I haven't seen him for ~35 hours
02:29:52 <mincepie> any germans about? :S
02:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> they are obviously all asleep at 3:30
02:31:09 <mincepie> I'm detecting a few small flaws in your argument
02:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause> it's called "irony"
02:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought you guys invented that :p
02:32:01 <mincepie> no, no, it was pliny
02:32:13 <mincepie> we just got really good at it ^_^
02:32:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so... what did you really want to ask?
02:33:11 <mincepie> I wanted to ask whether "e.schweizerbart sche verlagsbuchhan" was a name, a name and a company name, a company name, or what
02:33:39 <mincepie> oh, sorry, it's verlagsbuchhandlung
02:33:43 <Eddi|zuHause> err... sounds like there are some letters missing
02:33:53 <mincepie> sodding deutsche bank wordwrapped it
02:34:33 <mincepie> ordering party, sorry, is listed as "E.Schweizerbart'sche/ Verlagsbuchhandlung..."
02:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> "E. Schweizerbart" sounds like a name, as in founder of that "Verlagsbuchhandlung", which then would be a company
02:34:43 <mincepie> I would guess the latter is a company
02:35:28 <mincepie> still can't put "Dear Mr Schweizerbart'sche" owing to gender ambiguity
02:35:42 <mincepie> oh well, "dear sir" will do fine
02:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "sche" is a suffix, you should leave that out. and you don't know if the founder is actually still at the company
02:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and for future reference, the last part of the word ("Handlung" [something to do with "Handel" == "trade"] in this case) is usually the most generic, the words before that are increasing levels of specification
02:40:15 <mincepie> english does that also, I suppose
02:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> a "Buch - Handlung" would then be a shop for books
02:40:25 <mincepie> yeah, guessed that ^_^
02:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän
02:41:47 <mincepie> is that the meat labelling regulator?
02:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> is a captain, who works for the Donaudampfschifffahrtsgeselschaft
02:42:40 <Eddi|zuHause> which is a Gesellschaft [something along the lines of "Company"] which deals in Donaudampfschifffahrt
02:42:43 <mincepie> Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz
02:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Fahrt -- meaning they drive Donaudampfschiffe
02:43:30 <mincepie> I've got "Danube Steamship Company captain"
02:43:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, something along that line
02:43:51 <mincepie> interestingly, translating all these very long german words into esperanto makes them even longer.
02:44:18 <mincepie> german efficiency beats all, once again ¬.¬
02:45:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember the time when i started to notice that some of the words i use every day are actually made up of smaller components
02:46:04 <Eddi|zuHause> like "Kindergarten" can be split into "Kinder" [children] and "Garten" [garden]
02:46:24 <mincepie> I'm too tired for a witty retort, but you get the idea
02:46:46 <Eddi|zuHause> or "Brottasche" can be split into "Brot" [bread] and "Tasche" [bag]
02:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that was also the time that i noticed that there were two "t" in "Brottasche" ;)
02:48:27 <mincepie> or "electroencephalography" may be split into "electron", "encephalos", and "graphy", meaning "amber brain drawing"
02:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that was not actually a word of every day use when i was 4 :p
02:49:35 <mincepie> hm, you must have gone to a state-funded school
02:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause> there is actually a children's book which starts along the lines of "My first spoken word was 'Desoxyribonukleinsäure'"
02:51:42 <mincepie> my science teacher was cruelly named David Nigel Adams in the mid-fifties...
02:52:51 <mincepie> let's see how well wikipedia copes with translating from de_WIKIPEDIA
02:53:20 <mincepie> and it copes appallingly
02:53:27 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the article is about the film to the book
02:54:29 <mincepie> my brain reads poorly understood foreign languages better than bad english
02:54:51 <mincepie> I can only think it's being more open-minded or something
02:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why germans prefer to not speak german with someone who speaks bad german
02:55:30 <mincepie> familiarity curves and such
02:55:35 <mincepie> oh, I've run out of mince pies.
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03:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can has timeout?
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03:32:11 <Eddi|zuHause> too late, already got one ;)
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04:00:17 <baudchan> so I am pretty new to openttd, and I am going through the manual and so I've built two bus stations and have two busses running between them. I noticed that one will generate 15 or so passengers while the other collects passengers, and is already in the upwards of 1,000 passengers. Is this supposed to happen? also I've noticed that even though my busses make nearly $4,000 annually I seem to be losing money
04:00:39 <baudchan> $4,000 easily covers the maintenance costs
04:10:04 <Eddi|zuHause> do not use "transfer" when setting orders
04:10:48 <baudchan> and so should I just set it to go there? or drop off and pick up?
04:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it will automatically drop off and pick up if it can, no special orders are required
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09:08:05 <dihedral> i am waiting in a queue to download the map of a game....
09:08:32 <dihedral> it says "178 clients in front of you"
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09:22:11 <dihedral> no - i was just trying to emphasis something :-P
09:22:49 <dihedral> but i take it that if 180 people download the map at the same time.... well :-P
09:23:16 <dihedral> at least my openttd server does not have that kind of uplink :-P
09:26:57 <roboboy> how many clients in front of you now
09:50:46 * LA waves and says "Hello dihedral and others"
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10:11:45 <LA> Anyone wants to give me any nice ideas for some newGRFs?
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12:21:27 <Forked> danes lack proper internet? =p
12:35:23 <Eddi|zuHause> # Dänen lügen nicht
12:35:44 <Eddi|zuHause> # aaah ha haaah.... ahh hah hah ha haaah
12:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause> # ah aaah ha haaah.... ahh hah hah ha haaah
12:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> # ahah haaaah haha.... ha ha haaaah ha ha
12:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> # aaah hah hah haaaa.... ha ha haaaah hah hah
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13:50:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14742 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: use SmallMap in two cases to reduce compilation time and binary size
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17:48:44 <insulfrog> hi and merry christmas to all :)
17:49:19 <dh2k3> hi happy holidays everyone
17:50:01 <dh2k3> Game Load Failure Internal error inflate() failed
17:50:03 <mincepie> it's pronounced "merry christmas"
17:50:22 <insulfrog> I did not know you are in here mate
17:50:43 <dh2k3> nah have an issue seeing maybe people know how to fix it
17:51:49 <dh2k3> Game Load Failure Internal error inflate() failed
17:52:16 <dihedral> you have more than just that line dh2k3
17:53:28 <dihedral> run openttd with -d 6 option
17:53:59 <dihedral> wait - what system and what build are you using?
17:54:07 <insulfrog> maybe the savegame is for a different version of openttd
17:55:15 <insulfrog> that was a quick fix, what did you do?
17:55:29 <dihedral> did not load the sav :-P
17:55:34 <dihedral> or installed bz2 :-D
17:56:04 <dihedral> or ./openttd 2>&1 >/dev/null
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17:56:42 <glx> dh2k3: usually incomplete savegame
17:57:05 <insulfrog> or OTTD crashed during the 'saving' bit
17:57:37 <dh2k3> I've been having issues after playing OTTD for a long time and when I quit it hangs and doesn't go away until a reboot
17:57:57 <glx> no known issues with vista
17:58:10 <insulfrog> not as far as I know
17:58:14 <dh2k3> mine hangs with AppHang
17:58:57 <insulfrog> can you do something in task manager
17:59:27 <insulfrog> like close down 'App'Hang' or something
17:59:42 <Yorick> or something confused some packets
18:00:21 <Yorick> doesn't matter it can't get corrupt
18:00:34 <Eddi|zuHause> dh2k3: i suspect the game runs as user and does not have write access to its working directory
18:00:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so it cannot write the temporary network savegame nor the openttd.cfg
18:01:01 <Yorick> you mean the savegame directory ;)
18:01:11 <dh2k3> insulfrog, nope it hangs
18:01:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14743 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use INVALID_TILE to indicate station doesn't have queried facility (or station/roadstop is invalid) instead of 0 (Yexo)
18:02:11 <insulfrog> sounds like you have downloaded a 'bad version' of OTTD v 0.6.3, try and re-download 0.6.3 and see if that works
18:02:12 <Yorick> I used to get that error when 2 pcs were on wireless, both joining the same server
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18:24:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14744 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp saveload.cpp): -Fix [FS#2474]: don't tell loading a savegame failed in two distinct ways.
18:26:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14745 /trunk/src/ (vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: move "depot_list" and "leave_depot_immediately" out of the vehicle struct (saving up to 16 bytes per vehicle) as it is only used to tell a calling function entered a depot (for autoreplace).
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19:38:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14746 /trunk/src/ (disaster_cmd.cpp industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Fix: don't let any disaster vehicle (Helicopter or Airplane) target invalid industry
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20:45:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14747 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: remove DeleteVehicleChain in favour of the vehicle destructor as that was already doing the same for a few vehicle types.
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20:51:10 <Yorick> Rubidium: it wasn't for trains...
21:09:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14748 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: unduplicate window updating when deleting vehicles.
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21:16:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14749 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp disaster_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: replace a few wrapper functions that only called delete by a direct delete instead.
21:24:43 <Wolf01> ouch, I ate too much :P
21:25:36 <Wolf01> no, I'm like a balloon
21:26:10 * mincepie fitted a christmas cracker hat around his cat's stomach just now
21:26:23 <mincepie> unlike last year, the cat shredded the hat within a few seconds
21:27:22 <mincepie> Sacro: apparently the yanks don't eat mince pies
21:27:30 <mincepie> how can they live like that? D:
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21:49:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14750 /trunk/src/economy.cpp:
21:49:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1993]: in an MP game in SP mode no company would go bankrupt.
21:49:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Furthermore companies that passed the "bankrupt" period (4 quarters) wouldn't go
21:49:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bankrupt when loading the game back in MP. Now any company that is in MP or not
21:49:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: "currently controlled by the player" in SP will bankrupt.
21:49:33 <mincepie> sub zero temperatures FTW
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22:08:58 <George> Question about tile 18 (airport and dock) (oil rig) - is it possible to change its' accepting with CB 2B?
22:11:50 <Rubidium> if you mean the station tile, then no... as it isn't a industry tile
22:12:26 <Rubidium> as it doesn't have the ability to accept cargo
22:15:13 *** Rubidium sets mode: +v dihedral
22:15:31 <dihedral> wow - i feel honored
22:16:12 <dihedral> i'll screenshot it, print it out, and frame it :-D
22:16:49 * mincepie chuckles gently in corner
22:17:16 <George> Rubidium: Do you mean that if I'll specify CB of other indutry tiles, tiles 18 would act a station and start/stop accepting cargo the same way?
22:19:33 <Rubidium> tile 18h *IS* a station when the industry is fully constructed
22:20:36 <George> so, if I'll redefine all the other parts of the indutry, it will not accept cargo if other tiles do not do it, right?
22:21:21 <George> Can this station accept cargo for the other indutry nearby?
22:21:59 <Rubidium> now a question for the people who have a better understanding of English than me: in the land info window we've got "Cost to clear: <amount>", that can be negative so it should say something like "Profit when cleared: <amount>". The question is: is there a better way to write that and if so, how?
22:22:49 <Rubidium> George: it will not accept cargo itself, but it will accept cargo for nearby industries/houses
22:23:17 <Rubidium> i.e. if it's close enough to a coal mine the oil rig's station will accept coal
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22:24:39 <George> Rubidium: Thank you for clarifying me the question
22:25:29 <Bennythen00b> Why does OpenTTD use 5 minutes to start?..
22:25:56 <dihedral> Bennythen00b, what kind of map are you generating?
22:26:04 <dihedral> i assume you are talking about a dedicated server
22:26:38 <dihedral> yes - that's what the map generator does
22:26:59 <dihedral> what sys do you have?
22:27:02 <Rubidium> because a couple of: a) it's looking for NewGRFs, b) your OS hasn't cached the GRF files yet, c) you've got lots of duplicate NewGRFs, d) a stray process is running, e) you've build a debug build
22:27:06 <Bennythen00b> It isnt going slow at that point
22:27:23 <Bennythen00b> Thanks rubindum :)
22:27:34 <Nite_Owl> Rubidium: The cost to clear is always going to be negative, no?
22:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite_Owl: no, removing rails can gain you money
22:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> meaning a double negative, which should be avoided for clarity
22:28:23 <dihedral> Nite_Owl, buy land, then use the dynamite tool on that tile
22:28:27 <Nite_Owl> True - forgot that one - hmm
22:31:03 <Nite_Owl> Loss/Profit after clearing
22:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> not really a great description
22:33:45 <dihedral> both would be a positive value
22:34:04 <Rubidium> "Revenue when cleared" is much better
22:34:34 <Rubidium> or rather "Cost to clear" together with "Revenue when cleared"
22:34:46 <dihedral> can the string be varied?
22:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: he wants to implement that ;)
22:35:01 <Rubidium> the whole idea is to avoid negative numbers there
22:35:26 <Rubidium> as people seem to not understand negative costs
22:38:04 <Nite_Owl> if you can have one for gain and one for loss then go with what you suggested
22:39:02 <dihedral> cost and negative cost :-D
22:39:25 <dihedral> that'd get them confused
22:39:34 <dihedral> though i doubt that would be the aim
22:42:59 <Rubidium> confusing people is done in other ways
22:43:16 <Rubidium> like doing major releases on April 1st
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22:44:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14751 /trunk/src/ (tile_cmd.h vehicle.cpp vehicle_func.h): -Codechange: put VehicleEnterTile declaration where it should be and use correct return type
22:46:11 <George> Rubidium: Something goes wrong. Query tools says that other tiles do not accept cargo, but tile 18 itself accepts passengers
22:47:14 <George> Rubidium: need screenshots?
22:51:03 <Rubidium> I was misled by the code
22:51:15 <Rubidium> during construction TWO tiles with 18 are build
22:51:15 <George> Rubidium: So, I'm in trouble. I can't prevent oil rig and fishing grounds to accept unlimited amount of passengers.
22:51:42 <Rubidium> one of them becomes a station, the other stays an industry tile
22:52:35 <George> Are you sure? I thought one is dock and one is airport.
22:52:49 <Rubidium> the dock and airport are the same station tile
22:52:59 <Rubidium> I've just checked what's written on the map array
22:54:24 <Rubidium> do callback 2b (or whatever it is) for tile 18h too
22:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> more industries should have builtin delivery bays, e.g. for road vehicles
22:55:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and they should be extendable by a player's own stations
22:57:53 <George> Rubidium: It does not work. It stops to be a station than :(
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23:00:44 <George> These lines removes stations
23:00:58 <George> 542 * 14 00 09 04 01 18
23:00:59 <George> 664 * 7 03 09 01 18 00 FF 00
23:01:45 <George> removing them provides station and continues passenger accepting
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23:16:03 <Rubidium> so effectively you want some property/flag somewhere to say that a specific tile of an industry becomes an 'oil rig station'?
23:20:20 <George> Well, yes, but may I ask for more? A flag to make industry tile a station. With variants - dock, airport, lorry station?
23:21:57 <Rubidium> that'll make things much more complex
23:22:35 <George> well, may as the first step it be an oil rig station and add other variants later?
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23:38:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14752 /trunk/src/ (50 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#2438]: revenue when clearing land would show up in red in the land info window as negative cost.
23:53:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14753 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Fix (r1): after buying a company, one could have more vehicles with the same UnitID
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