IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-12-03
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00:00:24 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
00:09:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14649 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Change: consistently use can't instead of primarily can't and a bit of cannot in english.txt.
00:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time i got taught that contractions are for spoken language only
00:12:18 <Rubidium> I'd've liked writing this way ;)
00:14:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14650 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Merge: changelog etc. changes from the 0.6 branch.
00:16:15 <nicfer1> would be cool to edit the map generator so it can generate rivers
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00:19:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14651 /trunk/ (configure projects/generate): -Fix [FS#2437] (r14636): extmidi wasn't compiled/linked anymore.
00:21:36 <meush> anyone knows what happened to richk and his plentiful of patches?
00:22:39 <meush> like newgrf airports, he's done a nice job and suddenly said he's out of business
00:23:13 <Rubidium> meush: the "nice" really depends on how you look at it
00:23:33 <meush> aha, they were not nice codewise
00:23:42 <meush> he felt he has no dev support
00:24:27 <Rubidium> depends on what you call "support"
00:25:16 <meush> he was told that the patch will never get into the trunk, so there was no point continuing it?
00:25:20 <Rubidium> if "support" means that the devs do most of the coding work, then no... he had no support. If it means that we debated it and guided him then he had support
00:25:57 <Rubidium> meush: ... the *current* patch ...
00:26:18 <Rubidium> really... how easy it is to mislead people by omitting words
00:26:55 <meush> so why had he discontinued developement of newgrf airports patch?
00:27:09 <benjamingoodger> by which I mean "not very uneasy"
00:27:29 <Rubidium> the curse word of all open source development: real life
00:28:23 <meush> after all it may good for him
00:29:16 <nicfer1> about disasters, shouldn't be possible to add a newgrf action for them?
00:31:37 <nicfer1> and if it isn't possible, then why not a platform for them like NoAI is for AIs (warning, engrish ahead)
00:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not about whether it's possible
00:32:46 <nicfer1> how about NoDisasters? ;)
00:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it's about whether someone has enough time to put up a decent spec, and then more time to actually implement it
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00:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's about whether someone has enough time to put up a decent spec, and then more time to actually implement it
00:33:48 <Rubidium> and then two times as much time as it takes quite a few implementation iterations before it's right
00:35:06 <nicfer1> forget the second option, as it's better with current patching system
00:38:47 <Rubidium> and the chance that you find someone willing to code it is fairly small because people primarily get annoyed by disasters
00:41:32 <nicfer1> well, the main trouble is that the current disasters are not very friendly with openttd's objectives
00:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> er... correct me if i'm wrong, but disasters are supposed to be "not friendly"
00:51:58 <fjb> The ufos really did annoy me. The mine disaster was boring. So is don't use disasters any more. A river disaster could be more interesting.
00:52:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the main annoyance about the UFOs is that you only get a message when they land, not when they blow up
00:53:12 <nicfer1> I mean, the objectives of ottd say no war inciting or such features and the disasters are doing that
00:53:42 <meush> war? where? except for bombing ufo
00:53:53 <meush> but that would be called by TV "bringing peace"
00:54:09 <nicfer1> the factory being destroyed by the heli...
00:54:22 <nicfer1> the oil refinery by the other aircraft
00:54:45 <nicfer1> and the small ufo is kinda unpacifist, isn't it?
00:54:51 <nicfer1> don't forget the submarines
00:55:38 <nicfer1> the only 'neutral' disaster is the coal mine one
00:56:59 <nicfer1> OT: I want a toyland replacement that makes it look like LSD
00:57:44 <benjamingoodger> it already looks like that
00:58:52 <benjamingoodger> saying things like "ploddyphut choo-choo" would probably get you arrested in some parts of the world
01:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you must have a great deal of experience to judge that it looks like an LSD trip...
01:06:18 <fjb> How do I tell gcc that a constant is of type unsigned long long (in a #define)?
01:06:48 <Rubidium> using defines for constants is not wise
01:08:21 <Rubidium> fjb: because then you can't use constants in gdb
01:08:48 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: thank you, that is working.
01:10:10 <fjb> But I will still see the value in gdb. Using gdb is also not really wise in my project.
01:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you can use an enum
01:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> those can be turned into debug symbols
01:11:23 <fjb> gdb and realtime don't get together that wel...
01:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but i have no idea to get enums to be of type unsigned long long
01:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause> not at the same time, certainly
01:12:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but you do have a period of time where you are testing stuff that does not depend on the real time property
01:13:05 <fjb> I still didn't see any need to use gdb yet.
01:13:22 <Eddi|zuHause> until you actually run into a bug you don't find...
01:13:30 <fjb> Rubidium: gdb makes things too slow.
01:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you obviously won't ever run gdb on the production system...
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01:38:01 <SmatZ> hmm it's December again....
01:38:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you notice that because there are these little boxes with numbers 1 to 24 on the wall
01:40:03 <benjamingoodger> december is the time when christmas advertising goes from "overtly irritating" to "saturation"
01:41:40 <SmatZ> I would understand christmass adverts in December, but not in October :-x
01:41:55 <benjamingoodger> it's worse than that
01:42:02 <benjamingoodger> ALDI started selling mince pies in september
01:42:05 * SmatZ mumbles something about capitalism and misusing traditions for profit
01:42:17 <benjamingoodger> and their sell-by dates didn't extend to christmas...
01:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, at least that means there is a new doctor who special upcoming ;)
01:45:25 <benjamingoodger> and the impending departure of RTD
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05:01:05 <Belugas> [19:10] <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time i got taught that contractions are for spoken language only <-- wrong. women use them too. but it leaves more a mess then :S
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07:28:54 <dihedral> what was the command?
07:29:02 <dihedral> echo "gvd!" | sudo mail translators-all -s test #?
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12:33:27 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: sirkoz was last seen in #openttd 44 weeks, 3 days, 13 hours, 42 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <SirkoZ> 90nite
12:54:04 <gynter> there shouldn't be comma before and
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13:14:59 * Celestar has finally understood the difference between male and female humans when it comes to obtaining food.
13:26:34 <petern> you can't understand females...
13:29:03 <Rubidium> but understanding the difference can easily be done; you can understand that you can't understand females
13:29:45 <Celestar> Scene at the cafeteria.
13:30:43 <Celestar> Man wanting a sandwich. Operation. 1) Walk to fridge, 2) Open fridge, 3) locate desired sandwich, 4) extract sandwich from fridge, 5) close fridge door. Time elapsed: 12 seconds.
13:32:24 <Rubidium> Celestar: Woman at cafeteria wanting a sandwich. 1) Walks up to fridge, 2) locates herself stragetically as to block the entire line, 3) opens fridge, 4) pulls out sandwich, 5) identifies sandwich, 6) gives a rating to sandwich, 7) repeats steps 4) to 6) for every sandwich in damn fridge, 8) gets sandwich with highest rating from now warm fridge, 9) closes fridge. Elapsed time: 4 minutes :< ?
13:32:24 <Celestar> Woman wanting a sandwich: Opteron: 1) Walk to fridge, 2) locate herself strategically so that, in spite of having a BMI of maybe 17, she blocks the entire line, 3) Open fridge, 4) extract random sandwich, 5) examine sandwich thoroughly, 6) repeat 4) and 5) for the majority of sandwiches in fridge, 7) walk away from fridge with random sandwich without closing the door. Time elapsed: Aeons
13:32:33 <Celestar> Rubidium: yeah .. we had that :P
13:32:51 * Celestar tests people's memory :D
13:35:59 <Celestar> petern: you had some desync problems with cargodest and refits?
13:36:43 <petern> haven't played for ages, so dunno
13:36:57 <Celestar> I wanna wrap v1 up before Xmas
13:37:13 <Celestar> so that I can dive into route balancing in 2009 :D
13:37:35 <Celestar> and of course satisfy Rubidium's code guideline-requirements :D
13:37:46 <petern> so have you replaced boost yet? ;)
13:40:17 <Celestar> did we put that up as a requirement? :P
13:42:02 <Celestar> at least not while I was there :P
13:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause> oh the beautiful snow out there
13:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it's snowing the whole day already
13:52:01 <Celestar> Yeah, I heard that you guys in the North have snow today
13:52:12 <Celestar> we have a clear blue sky
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14:00:03 <gynter> does anyone know a 64x64 map server?
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14:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> servers.openttd.org
14:00:54 <gynter> indeed, you should add filter there :P
14:01:09 <petern> yeah, Eddi|zuHause, do it
14:01:50 <gynter> Eddi|zuHause, cant see any map sizes displayed in servers list...
14:01:54 <gynter> that i mean under filter
14:02:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, because map sizes are not announced
14:02:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to query each server to find out its mapsize
14:10:00 <rond> Why OTTD can lag in networked game?
14:12:28 <Eddi|zuHause> big map? ships? bandwidth?
14:13:00 <rond> Bandwidth should be ok, ping is ok, ships disabled, map 1024x1024.
14:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that's already a large map
14:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> tried increasing net_frame_freq?
14:14:27 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: increasing that adds more lag
14:14:41 <rond> It was ok at earlier stage of game.
14:14:49 <rond> But now it lags bad (at least for me).
14:15:06 <Rubidium> lag is because all commands are send to the server and then the server sends it back to the clients
14:15:50 <Rubidium> the longer it takes before the command can actually be executed (you are at the same game state as the server when sending the command)
14:16:49 <rond> Some stations are not very little.
14:16:51 <Rubidium> reasons for this are, amongst others: slow client, stupid choices w.r.t. settings, high net_frame_freq, low ping
14:17:03 <rond> And I don't know how much stations are considered many. ;-)
14:17:13 <Rubidium> very complex routes, many many vehicles
14:17:17 <rond> wrt settings - what is wrt?
14:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "with regard to"?
14:18:45 <rond> So, in network game OTTD at client side does all the route calculations?
14:19:42 <rond> For all vehicles or only for player's vehicles?
14:21:17 <Celestar> every client computes the entire game state every tick
14:32:52 * Belugas gives rond a BAG of cookie
14:33:36 <Belugas> here is a guy who asked a qwuestion and wants to actually learn :)
14:33:46 <Belugas> this is to be celebrate!
14:34:01 <Belugas> so is the departure of nicfer :D
14:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause> oh fuck... i can't write a word...
14:37:31 <Belugas> it requires fingers :) to hold a pen or push some keys
14:37:54 <Belugas> and yes, i need coffee or even better, sleep
14:38:27 <planetmaker> both sounds like one of the two will be futile... ;)
14:39:43 <Belugas> pretty much so indeed
14:40:08 <Belugas> funny... two days of work, already 22 hours completed
14:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i need a ghostwriter or something...
14:40:46 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: maybe you first need a ghost detector?
14:41:19 <planetmaker> Maybe then one of those ghosts will write for you ;)
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14:46:18 <Celestar> audacity's declipping functions just cancelled out the whole audio file.
14:46:31 <Celestar> a nice way to remove clips :P
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14:59:12 <Aali> you have to give them credit for finding the "perfect" declipping function
14:59:30 <petern> it's so general purpose as well
14:59:45 <petern> and a perfect 0hz signal generator
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15:10:43 <Celestar> noiser? silencer rather ..
15:11:21 <Eddi|zuHause> silence is just a special kind of noise
15:13:31 <planetmaker> depends upon definition of "noise".
15:14:29 <Celestar> something that wakes me up :P
15:15:05 <Rubidium> so a bucket of ice cold water's also noise
15:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the only thing that is missing in this snowy landscape is a steam train...
15:37:38 <Belugas> mmh? You have christmas trees?
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17:11:58 <Belugas> hello :) been a while our paths did not crossed on the wonderfull Internet Road ;)
17:14:31 <Belugas> i cross, you cross, she crosses, i did cross, you did cross, she did cross
17:15:31 <petern> our paths did not cross
17:15:46 <ccfreak2k> Heh, no translation for Esperanto.
17:15:50 <ccfreak2k> I'm kind of suprised.
17:16:12 <gynter> is there a color chart of company, dialogs, fonts colors?
17:21:51 <gynter> did/does (not) + 1st form
17:25:03 <frosch123> what kind of colour chart?
17:28:15 <gynter> of company colors, dialog colors (border, background, text, shadow etc) and font colors
17:28:39 <glx> I saw it somewhere in the source
17:37:05 <ccfreak2k> What's the config option name for town road layout?
17:42:06 <glx> ccfreak2k: something with "layout" in it IIRC
17:42:41 <ccfreak2k> Silly me, I thought it would have the word "road" in it.
17:43:25 <ccfreak2k> Does town_layout ring a bell?
17:44:28 <glx> _settings_game.economy.town_layout
17:45:36 <ccfreak2k> I added it to the wiki.
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17:48:15 <glx> the value is a number, so maybe be more explicit in the description :)
17:49:24 <glx> and you forgot "no roads" :)
17:49:55 <ccfreak2k> I left the description as-is, so blame whoever wrote that instead. :)
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18:06:52 <gynter> chart says red text should be fc0000, but with color picker i get c40000, any ideas why?
18:08:03 <gynter> Text what player types is company colored. Red text in dialogs is fc0000
18:08:04 <Wolf01> Yeah! I'm the first hundred user of this channel! What I've won?
18:10:22 <glx> I can ask DorpsGek to give you a present :)
18:10:29 <Wolf01> Is possible to delete the last line I inserted? I think when peter reads it he will kick me :'(
18:13:07 <petern> i think you meant "what've i won", though
18:13:22 <Wolf01> You said no stupid jokes
18:13:31 <petern> msn messenger connected and then locked up
18:14:33 <Wolf01> At least when I was suggesting impossible features :P
18:16:25 <Prof_Frink> petern! NewImpossibleStuff!
18:16:37 <Wolf01> About impossible features... how is going with layered drawing of graphics?
18:17:21 <petern> or do you mean the sprite sorting glitches?
18:17:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i think he meant railtypes being layered over bridges or something
18:19:00 <Wolf01> you weren't working at patch wich should allow to compose rail junctions and other sprites without grass etc?
18:22:47 <petern> oh, the new railtypes patch
18:22:58 <petern> though i never did much with tunnels
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18:30:35 <petern> "can you tell me where my country lies?"
18:32:00 <Wolf01> my country lies on all :P
18:33:39 <thingwath> my country doesn't lie, becauese "truth prevails".
18:37:21 <Prof_Frink> petern: Westminster?
18:43:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14652 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
18:43:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-12-03 18:43:05
18:43:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 28 changed by knovak (28)
18:43:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 64 fixed, 1 changed by fanioz (50), dnaftali (15)
18:43:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: macedonian - 10 fixed by zharko (10)
18:43:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: malay - 267 fixed, 3 changed by tombakemas (270)
18:43:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: serbian - 29 fixed by dejac (29)
18:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "my country" doesn't even exist anymore
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19:07:50 <Belugas> "Said the unicorn to its true love eyes"
19:08:03 <Belugas> "It lies with me, said th Queen of Maybe"
19:08:05 <Eddi|zuHause> "as long as this joke works, germany is not truely reunited"
19:14:42 <fjb_> It will still need many years till germany is truely reunited. There is still a wall in the people's mind. And the politicians don't help much. Why are the wages still different (and many other things)?
19:16:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the wages are still not equal because they are actally too high in western germany, and people generally react harsh if anyone is trying to "take away" from them
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19:19:01 <fjb_> I don't think they are too high in western germany, they are too low in eastern germany.
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19:28:35 <Belugas> As I can see, petern, the good old classics are pretty much unknown tothe masses these days :D
19:30:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the real problem is, the good music i listen to often has no accompanying lyrics
19:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't really whistle melodies in here :p
19:31:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14653 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt danish.txt unfinished/indonesian.txt):
19:31:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-12-03 19:27:43
19:31:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 10 fixed by ThomasA (10)
19:31:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 48 fixed by fanioz (48)
19:31:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: WebTranslator2 went haywire on Croatian/Danish.
19:33:36 <Belugas> hehehe good point, Eddi|zuHause good point :)
19:40:18 <Booth> i have a question to developers
19:40:30 <Booth> i have been using YAPF for my ships
19:40:46 <Booth> as it seems to works better and not increase the demand on my processor
19:40:56 <Booth> so why is it not recomended?
19:41:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yapf can be an extreme ressource hog if the distances between buoys get higher and the paths more complicated
19:43:45 <Booth> i was running 1000 boats on a boat only map
19:43:57 <Booth> and when i turn yapf off and back to opf
19:44:06 <Booth> its almost crash openttd
19:45:14 <Booth> you have to use buoys with boats
19:45:27 <Booth> opf doesnt work without buoys either
19:45:43 <petern> i dunno about now, but you used to be able to use yapf without buoys
19:46:01 <petern> which gave a bad reputation, i guess
19:46:06 <Booth> you can but not on long distances
19:46:20 <Booth> just says that its to far for pervious station
19:47:20 <Booth> i dont understand why yapf would not be recomended over opf
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20:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the buoys were enforced for YAPF, too, because long distances caused so many troubles. but in general they are not really needed
20:14:29 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have low water levels and only 1 tile wide canals, YAPF should even be fine over long distances
20:24:26 <Doke> Is it possible to change the default "load game" directory?
20:25:13 <Doke> atm its "C:\users\etc" but i'd prefer the game directory on "E:\openttd\saves"
20:26:28 <Doke> Thx Sacro. Next question: How?
20:27:02 <Sacro> alter the source and recompile
20:28:08 <Doke> any other possibilities?
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20:44:44 <glx> oh and read the readme :)
20:47:08 <Belugas> what the heck is that? o_O
20:48:08 <frosch123> readme is somewhat related to delme
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21:41:52 <ccfreak2k> Why is it that no one ever survives train/bus/aircraft collisions in openttd?
21:42:51 <Prof_Frink> Because the vehicles are laden with dynamite.
21:42:54 <Wolf01> because it's an ideal world, where if you are injuried you will be suppressed to not suffer
21:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> because that's the furthest away from the r-word we could do
21:43:44 <Booth> i wish planes and boats and rv's could crash into eachother
21:44:13 <Wolf01> so you can kill more people at once?
21:45:15 <Booth> and you had to think where to place airports and docks to stop planes crashing into trees building or the ground and to stop boat sinking if they crashed into rocks or run aground
21:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> btw. killed people are less likely to sue you
21:46:11 <Booth> but there spouses and families are
21:46:16 <Wolf01> btw, I wish that too, so ships will need a more sophisticate handling, like 2 tiles larger canals, no 2 ships in the lock at the same time etc
21:46:29 <Booth> is this Openttd turns into COD5?
21:46:57 <Booth> wow wolf i thought i was a one of a kind
21:47:04 <Booth> and tides would be nice
21:47:24 <benjamingoodger> don't push it ¬.¬
21:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but dead people do not have medical costs
21:48:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so the spouses get less money, because they do not have ongoing support costs
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21:48:18 <benjamingoodger> less of a drain on the taxpayer
21:48:18 <Booth> what about cars to rival you networks?
21:48:50 <Eddi|zuHause> death insurance is also usually much lower than invalidity insurance
21:49:16 <Booth> isnt it cheaper not to buy insurance!
21:49:45 <Belugas> [16:43] <Eddi|zuHause> because that's the furthest away from the r-word we could do <--- :D !!!!
21:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, that's totally an in-joke ;)
21:50:41 <Belugas> [16:44] <Booth> i wish planes and boats and rv's could crash into eachother <--- sickening wish..
21:51:01 <Booth> i mean planes into planes
21:51:13 <Prof_Frink> No, planes into buildings is sickening.
21:51:17 <Booth> so you would need better pathfinding
21:51:33 <Booth> planes into buildings is funny
21:54:20 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
21:54:58 <ccfreak2k> Place an airport right behind the other company's HQ and have planes fly in low and see if you can hit it.
21:55:02 <gynter> xml-rpc not implemented to masterserver yet?
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21:56:58 <gynter> uhm, k udp way then :P
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22:03:58 <Nite_Owl> How many of you have ever seen the movie Deliverance
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22:06:25 <Nite_Owl> Hmmm - another caption game entry doomed due to obscurity - oh well
22:06:25 <fjb> Nite_Owl: I guess I saw it once.
22:08:59 *** Mortal is now known as Guest227
22:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what you just said...
22:13:28 <Nite_Owl> At the TT Forums there is a forum in which various games are played. One of those games is a 'caption' game. Someone posts a picture and you come up with a caption for it.
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continue to next day ⏵
