IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-10-02
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00:09:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14431 /trunk/src/console.cpp: -Fix (r14414): alias parameter "evaluation" would remove the last byte of the parameters.
00:23:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14432 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix: tile description of tiles with only one signal that is not the normal signal showing "normal signal and <signal type on tile>".
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05:06:19 <ccfreak2k> The speed scaling for aircraft is interesting.
05:06:27 <ccfreak2k> Apparently the "Dinger 1000" taxies at 125MPH.
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06:37:21 <peter1138> Most important patch ever!
06:40:20 <planetmaker> I just found a wrong doc comment due to the same change...
06:42:31 <planetmaker> one could also consider to adopt a few strings in english.txt where also rather company than player is meant.
07:19:30 <dih> Thank you Rubidium (@r14431)
07:24:24 <peter1138> Wasn't that backported to 0.6.3?
07:25:05 <dih> no it was not - i checked
07:28:36 <peter1138> I think it was, but "name", etc, are not aliases.
07:30:10 <peter1138> dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer
07:30:10 <peter1138> 'rcon_pw' changed to: foo
07:30:57 <peter1138> 18:03 <@peter1138> Rubidium, lots of changes without an RC? :o
07:31:00 <peter1138> 18:04 <@Rubidium> peter1138: what's lots of changes?
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07:32:28 <peter1138> I shall now go into hiding :p
07:38:08 <sulai> 0.6.3 is out... as a translator, I'm a littly unhappy that there have been changes to the language file just before the release. There was no chance for us to update the translation for the release =(
07:40:59 <peter1138> Well there is a solution.
07:41:08 <peter1138> We can just not do releases :)
07:42:09 <peter1138> sulai, so did a lot change from 0.6.2 ?
07:43:49 <sulai> there have been many changes to the german language file since 0.6.2 (several hundred) ;)
07:44:30 <peter1138> Some has been backported.
07:45:06 <sulai> the changes are pending in webtranslator2...
07:45:44 <sulai> peter1138: We can just not do releases :) <- would be nice if there are only releases if there was no language file change for a week or so
07:45:53 <peter1138> Those changes don't apply to 0.6.3
07:46:59 <peter1138> "player" was renamed to "company" in trunk, but not in 0.6.x
07:47:15 <peter1138> So in English it still refers to players.
07:47:47 <sulai> release is r14430, language file change is r14423
07:48:33 <peter1138> Welcome to *branches*
07:49:51 <sulai> sorry for bothering you...
07:51:12 <sulai> I'm just curious about branches: If one does a commit to the trunk, these changes are automatically applied to all its branches?
07:52:03 <sulai> Isn't it some hard work to merge branches by hand later on?
07:58:33 <FauxFaux> It can be easy if there are no conflicts. ¬_¬
08:08:15 <ccfreak2k> "trunk" is like the trunk of a tree.
08:08:25 <ccfreak2k> Well the whole thing's a tree.
08:08:27 <ccfreak2k> Think of it that way.
08:15:34 <peter1138> It can be, however, release branches (0.5 and 0.6, for example) are not ever merged back with trunk.
08:15:44 <peter1138> That would defeat the point of having them :)
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08:17:47 <peter1138> Haha, our first BayTSP email.
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08:53:36 <Smoky555> can i download somewhere nightly build of NoAI brunch?
09:15:21 <Ammler> I accidentially posted in the General Forum
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09:58:28 <TrueBrain> Don't eat yellow snow.
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10:02:14 <peter1138> Idbg: [sprite] Tried to load recolour sprite #723 as a real sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference
10:02:25 <peter1138> Okay... a little more work is needed to make dedicated servers run without graphics :p
10:04:35 <TrueBrain> the main question I always had around that ... how much does OpenTTD need to know the dimensions of the graphics?
10:04:48 <peter1138> It doesn't any more.
10:05:08 <peter1138> They are no longer used for collision detection.
10:05:22 <peter1138> Well, not used, but affect.
10:05:58 <TrueBrain> as I said, I once made apatch to remove the need for grfs .. by loading all grfs as a black grf with dimension 10x10 .. :p
10:06:12 <TrueBrain> but back then, it seemed to cause desyncs :p
10:06:19 <peter1138> There are sprites that are needed for map generation.
10:06:27 <peter1138> But you know about those :)
10:06:38 <TrueBrain> well, old map generation :p
10:06:58 <TrueBrain> WARNING: you can't generate old-style maps without original grfs.
10:07:00 <TrueBrain> fixed that nicely ;)
10:07:38 <peter1138> I wonder if anyone ever made a NewGRF to replace those sprites...
10:07:59 <peter1138> To affect map generation, clearly.
10:08:14 <TrueBrain> there are grfs that replace the map images to produce other generatedmaps, yes
10:08:20 <TrueBrain> most of them makes it even more ugly :p
10:08:34 <peter1138> Hmm, I've never seen one.
10:09:08 <TrueBrain> the old map generation makes such squary maps .. :p
10:09:15 <TrueBrain> oh well, back to Saint Row 2 .. that game rules :)
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10:41:52 <peter1138> Hmm, what's the special incantation to get lighttpd to proxy hg serve? :o
10:45:34 <Rexxars> lighttpd --do-what-i-want-you-to-do
10:46:04 <peter1138> I set it up to proxy but it stalls when serving.
10:48:07 <peter1138> Hmm, seems OpenTTD's config rewrites the files that stall...
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11:37:52 <fjb> I hate PBI. 87% vtranported, station rating is 77%, always a train wainting there and the production of the coalmine always goes down. :-(
11:39:24 <Ammler> fjb: maybe the coal has to wait too long.
11:41:48 <fjb> I'm also having a statue there.
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11:57:49 <Tim> We don't love YAPP anymore? :D
12:16:59 * FauxFaux doesn't like some of the issues with yapp that it's not even plausibly easy to fix. =p
12:18:35 <Ammler> like->love->commit2trunk
12:19:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petern
12:19:05 <Ammler> (or do they also commit something, they don't like? ;-)
12:19:34 <fjb> Which issues does YAPP have?
12:20:23 <FauxFaux> Presignals race, presignals pathfinding past stations and the 90 deg thing at depots are the only ones I can think of atm. ¬_¬
12:20:51 <Ammler> and those are releated to YAPP?
12:21:08 <fjb> What is the relation of presignals to YAPP?
12:21:13 <FauxFaux> I'm pretty sure the first two are.
12:21:44 * FauxFaux couldn't exactly find the code that was to blame, let alone fix it, though. ¬_¬
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12:39:38 <petern> What do you mean by "presignals pathfinding past stations"?
12:39:56 <petern> Or rather, why do you think they shouldn't?
12:40:26 <petern> (Or is that they don't?)
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12:44:15 * petern investigates linux-vserver
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13:27:50 <petern> Hmm, it likes to use real IPs :o
13:28:42 <petern> Ah, there's a dummy network device I can use.
13:34:47 <Celestar> where are our Hungarians here?
13:35:43 <DorpsGek> Celestar: mihamix was last seen in #openttd 37 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 14 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <MiHaMiX> s/t$/d/
13:44:09 <petern> Hmm, and then when using private addresses, NAT gets messy :(
13:47:37 <SpComb> linux-vsever networking is kind of weird
13:47:48 <SpComb> as they all share some interface
13:48:07 * SpComb used vserver in a Xen domU
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13:57:46 <fjb> Xen makes my server crawl. The networking gets unbearable slow.
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14:01:35 <Celestar> awesome. the driver works, there are no errors, but I get a black screen :S
14:04:08 <petern> Well, this server does not have CPUs that support virtualization.
14:05:51 <Celestar> the AMD driver manages to turn off the screen :o
14:06:10 <Celestar> yeah for the video card
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14:10:01 <fjb> What else do you need the AMD driver for the vidoe card for?
14:10:17 <Celestar> it'S a video card driver ...
14:10:27 <petern> Who said it was a server?
14:10:49 <glx> fjb: it used to be an ATI driver
14:11:25 <fjb> Still what do you use it for when not for running X?
14:11:40 <Celestar> who sais I'm not running X?
14:12:25 <fjb> That is why I asked: "X on a server?"
14:12:41 <petern> Ah right. I guess the correct answer would be "no" then.
14:13:18 <fjb> I didn't associate Xen with a notebook.
14:16:18 <petern> Sounds like you're mixing up two conversations.
14:16:30 <Celestar> peter's server and my notebook (=
14:16:54 <Celestar> peter != Celestar. also *peter != *Celestar.
14:17:29 <fjb> [15:47:56] <Celestar> using Xen here :P
14:17:42 <Celestar> fjb: yeah, but not on the laptop. on the server .
14:18:14 <fjb> Your next sentence was about AMD drivers.
14:19:04 <petern> And was a different subject :)
14:19:57 <petern> Hmm, with vserver I keep seeing errors about ps :(
14:20:04 <petern> (I guess I just shouldn't run ps, heh)
14:31:20 <petern> So there are special commands to run to show processes inside vservers.
14:35:34 <fjb> What is vserver? Something like BSD jails?
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14:51:35 <planetmaker> Is there a way to truncate a string to a certain button width?
14:52:40 <planetmaker> Or is there no cure for strings exceeding buttons when resizing windows?
14:53:33 <planetmaker> s/windows/widgets/
14:55:08 <jpm_> planetmaker: Thanks for updating shared infrastrucrure.
14:55:20 <Belugas> planetmaker: yes to the first question, yes to the second (or at least in the current state)
14:55:48 <planetmaker> Belugas: can you give me a hint how, please?
14:55:55 <Belugas> more generally, it's a troublesome stuff
14:55:58 <planetmaker> jpm: my pleasure :)
14:56:27 <Belugas> there is a function to truncate strings before drawing, clipping it to given dimensions
14:56:40 <Belugas> but it will not make the "component" grow
14:56:55 <planetmaker> how do you mean "make component grow"?
14:57:17 <planetmaker> resizing the button? No, that's not my intention, rather crippled strings :)
14:57:21 <Belugas> so for let say german long strings, you'll have stuff no one will understand
14:57:35 <Belugas> same for french, that is...
14:57:53 <Belugas> and i just can hear users complaining about that...
14:57:56 <planetmaker> I just updated the newgrf gui window - and when decreasing the size, text overflows
14:58:09 <planetmaker> especially to the left, leaving text on the screen, out of the window.
14:58:46 <planetmaker> Ok, I take your advice: keep it overflowing :P
14:58:58 <Belugas> not a simple one, and IIRC, Rubidium filled a bug report on it
14:59:27 <jpm_> planetmaker: When we last time tested it there was a odd bug: other players trains sundenly appeared into one of first players depot swicth was not even connected with others tracks...
14:59:29 <Belugas> planetmaker, idea is simple: better make it overflow and still understand, then truncate and wonder ;)
15:00:11 <planetmaker> he, yeah, :) Ok, then I'll stop worrying about that. And you have definitely a point there, Belugas.
15:00:39 <planetmaker> jpm_: can you provide a savegame where I could reproduce that?
15:01:09 <planetmaker> preferably with the new version :)
15:01:30 <planetmaker> which still is hacky a lot
15:02:05 <jpm_> planetmaker: yes, we will test new version during weekend and if bug is still there I will let you know..
15:02:41 <planetmaker> But I guess a thorough re-write of it is necessary at some stage anyway... :S
15:04:07 <Belugas> planetmaker,it has to be fixed one day, jsut that how to fix it in a clean way is a bit of a troublesome one. It might involve resizing the parent window to fit the newly expanded component, but since some strings are dynamic, ti would imply windows that keep on resizing. And might eventually be way too big to fit screen
15:05:08 <jpm_> planetmaker: We have discussed about some ideas to improve patch but I haven't had time to write them to forum...
15:05:11 <planetmaker> Belugas: yeah - especially in this newgrf gui case - which then might not fit on small devices anymore - but will, if allowed to overflow
15:05:25 <planetmaker> jpm_: feel free to add it there anytime :)
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15:05:41 <planetmaker> It has also the advantage that I cannot forget :P
15:12:43 <jpm_> Actually, they are not just ideas but totally new consept for sharing and other stuff...
15:13:36 <jpm_> So I would need a lot time to write it to forum...
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15:14:26 <jpm_> but I will do it sometime.
15:14:31 <planetmaker> jpm_: same here. So forum is better to be remembered - and putting it down well structured :)
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16:21:32 <yorick> mmm, I have a problem reading the gamelog chunk from saves... first the GLCT_REVISION...it contains a char[15], uint32, uint16(saveload version), and uint8 modify information.
16:23:20 <yorick> 47 4C 4F 47 00 00 00 34 00 00 00 01 72 31 34 34 30 35 4D 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 07 00 38 45 00 66 02 00 01 00 04 01 05 47 4D 35 84 80 7C 9B 1D FD A8 A9 10 A2 B4 82 95 68 1F FF FF <-- this is the GLOG chunk
16:25:21 <yorick> chunkid is 47 4C 4F 47, which reads as GLOG, then comes 00, which is named "m", together with 00 00 34, it forms size 13312
16:30:54 <yorick> next byte is 00, which forms at, then comes 00 00, which forms "tick", 01 is ct, marking game revision, next 15 bytes are revision string, then newgrf_version, (07 00 38 45) 1161297927, 00 66 should be sl_version, so I expect it to be 102, but instead it is 26773 :S
16:31:52 <yorick> 02 is the modify information, makes more sense
16:36:06 <Yexo> yorick: 00 66 == 102 in either big endian or little endian, not sure which one
16:42:36 <petern> ((uint32)_sl_version << 8 | _sl_minor_version)
16:44:04 <yorick> 00 66 is 102 in big endian...
16:44:20 <yorick> and the size makes a whole lot more sense all of a sudden
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16:57:13 <dih> yorick, doing any good work?
17:15:11 <yorick> dih: if you can call savegame parsing any good work...
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17:39:19 <extspotter> I have just finished my BA 732 and want to know which program I need to compile the |GRF
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17:41:14 <yorick> are openttd saves always big-endian on little-endian systems?
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17:47:16 <petern> They're saved byte-by-byte.
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17:47:25 <petern> Well... formatted that way, heh...
17:51:09 <glx> unless it's a 'real' uint16
17:51:51 <glx> but still it's saved/read byte-by-byte
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17:57:02 <welshdragon> Brianetta, that was a nice reply to the server restart request on standad
17:59:30 <yorick> the VEHS chunk is not a RIFF?
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17:59:48 <Brianetta> welshdragon: Server restarts are not, in my opinion, a good reason to page the admins.
17:59:59 <Brianetta> The admins do check periodically whether the game is getting old.
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18:20:19 <Brianetta> Makefile:152: Makefile.bundle: No such file or directory
18:24:01 <yorick> Brianetta: does it say anythin else
18:24:15 <yorick> it is more like a lobster dish, I guess
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18:40:41 <fjb> Hm, PBI and hose carriages don't mix that well. And passengers don't give enough money...
18:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause> hose carriages? they carry hoses?
18:43:04 <Eddi|zuHause> are they firefighters?
18:43:20 <fjb> Firefighters carry horses?
18:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> "hose" ~ "Schlauch"
18:44:14 <yorick> no, hoses carry firefighters.
18:48:04 <petern> hoses made from horses?
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18:51:12 <Eddi|zuHause> he's not french ;)
18:52:02 <Eddi|zuHause> waah... savegame compatibility is a bitch...
18:52:07 <Belugas> what do you mean? he's not subtil?
18:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that :p
18:53:34 <yorick> I'm experiencing that problem right now
19:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> wääh... i give up
19:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> celestar has done some "clean this savegame mess up" commits
19:08:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't have that, obviously ;)
19:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the saveload stuff should be done with less magic numbers
19:11:20 <yorick> it doesn't have _that_ much
19:11:31 <yorick> but some less magic wouldn't hurt
19:12:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's too much magic if you mix different patches which change saveload version
19:12:25 * yorick just decoded map array magic and implemented it in python
19:12:44 <planetmaker> 21:10 Eddi|zuHause: [20:50:20] waah... savegame compatibility is a bitch... <-- for me it works to introduce a patch version which is far bigger than current trunk
19:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i definitely don't envy you, yorick :p
19:14:00 <Eddi|zuHause> at least i know it fails in chunk ECMY
19:14:44 <planetmaker> and I defined a var such as SAVEGAME_VERSION which gives me the patch version - saves me modifying the files again and again when the trunk savegame version bumps
19:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but it sets the newgrf palette incorrectly...
19:21:01 * yorick ponders skipping the PATS chunk
19:22:08 <Ammler> opensuse means, I have newer version installed
19:22:59 <petern> That sentence was very wrong.
19:23:43 <petern> "means, I have" -> "says I have a"
19:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> blame packman, not suse
19:25:26 <petern> Or whoever packaged it...
19:25:37 <planetmaker> that packman uses my nick's short for his :S
19:26:07 <planetmaker> btw, petern, where did your numbers go? :)
19:26:46 <planetmaker> in the filename: ...pm...
19:27:01 <Prof_Frink> planetmaker: Let n=1138...
19:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i want to start a new game, bt i miss some requirements
19:27:41 <petern> "short for his" -> "short form for itself"
19:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> a) a german town name generator for >3000 names
19:28:04 <petern> (Clearly this is correction night :D)
19:28:17 <petern> Prof_Frink! Throw a brick at the telly!
19:28:39 <planetmaker> err... petern: why itself? He certainly has a gender different than neuter...
19:29:01 <Eddi|zuHause> packman is not one single person
19:29:05 <petern> It is software, it has no gender.
19:29:38 <planetmaker> thanks for enlightenment.
19:30:33 <petern> It's railway night on BBC4, apparently.
19:30:43 <petern> Abandonned railways now...
19:30:44 <Brianetta> Why doen't make install work?
19:31:28 <Brianetta> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/brian/openttd-0.6/objs/release'
19:31:28 <Brianetta> [SRC] No such source-file: install.[c|cpp|mm|rc]
19:31:53 <Brianetta> Sacro: That game you lost in screen was in screen
19:31:59 <Brianetta> just in another window
19:32:05 <Brianetta> I found the game that got quit by rcon
19:32:31 <Prof_Frink> < Brianetta> Sacro: That game you lost
19:32:51 <petern> Sacro lost the game :D
19:33:02 <Brianetta> He lost it, as in, down the sofa
19:33:24 <Prof_Frink> Aali: Nah, it's OK
19:33:30 <Sacro> I accidentally the game
19:33:40 <Prof_Frink> Sacro is a game-loss lightning conductor.
19:34:13 <Prof_Frink> make install-please
19:34:15 <Brianetta> in fact, there doesn't appear to be an install: target in the Makefile
19:34:16 <petern> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/petern/ottd/svn/0.6.3/objs/release'
19:34:16 <petern> [BUNDLE] Constructing bundle
19:34:16 <petern> [INSTALL] Installing OpenTTD
19:34:16 <petern> install: cannot create directory `///usr/local/share/pixmaps': Permission denied
19:35:03 <Brianetta> petern: Which command did you use?
19:35:08 <petern> install: is in makefile.bundle
19:38:33 <Aali> Brianetta: have you tried to re-./configure?
19:39:52 <petern> Hmm, works fine with sudo :o
19:40:09 * petern wonders where it installed too...
19:40:36 <planetmaker> nvm - on thing after the oter :)
19:41:22 <petern> Brianetta, what version of make do you have?
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19:44:35 <Belugas> question: anyone is fluent in spanish enough to translate a text for me?
19:47:45 <Eddi|zuHause> we won't ever know that unless you show the text ;)
19:51:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "llamada" sounds like "is called" to me
19:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "this function is called when the component MainMenuXP is modified"
19:51:53 <yorick> google translate: "/ / This function is called when the component is modified MainMenuXP "
19:52:12 <yorick> "This function is called when the component MainMenuXp is modified
19:52:29 <yorick> "/ / (Add or remove items), traveling all items by changing the event OnDrawItem "
19:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i forgot what "hacer" meant
19:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (i assume that hacia is a derived form of hacer)
19:54:39 <yorick> "Function to my own" is what google translate makes it
19:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hacer is some of those allround words ;)
19:56:24 <lobster> is #openttd interested in Lobster's Black Metal Picks Show @ Z.radio??
19:56:32 <Eddi|zuHause> like "do" in english
19:56:42 <Chrill> donez, Brianetta, will send it to you
19:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it could mean almost anything
19:58:29 <Aali> lobster: Z.radio? is that a webradio?
19:58:44 <lobster> i'll dig up the URL for you
19:59:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: look at that link, there are at least 30 different meanings there ;)
19:59:34 * Brianetta prods Chrill in de Ville
19:59:55 <yorick> Eddi: and almost all could be replaced by "to do" or "to make"
19:59:57 <welshdragon> lobster was 50% correct
19:59:59 <Belugas> thanks for translations :)
20:00:38 <Chrill> Brianetta, check TT-forums inbox
20:00:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Chrill: nothing, just a play on Brianetta's phrase ;)
20:00:51 <Chrill> Swedes call me Chrille :(
20:00:52 * Brianetta renames it slightly
20:00:52 <lobster> i don't know iff *.ogg works
20:01:35 <yorick> :o your LEO doesn't even have nl-de :-(
20:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: germans tend to avoid the word "do" like the plague ;)
20:02:25 <yorick> english does not, I think
20:02:51 <lobster> Aali: sorry, NiceCast doesn't seem to like it
20:03:03 <Eddi|zuHause> english does use the word do almost everywhere
20:03:05 <planetmaker> yorick: if you use it too often it sounds probably similar like africaans to you :)
20:03:13 <Aali> lobster: mp3 is fine though :)
20:04:08 <yorick> planetmaker: africaans is with a k
20:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: leo started out with en-de only, they subsequently added more and more languages... maybe you can convince (or help) them to do nl-de as well ;)
20:04:53 <planetmaker> I cannot spy a single k in the work you wrote, yorick ;)
20:05:08 <Prof_Frink> planetmaker: He's a gnome user.
20:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> wouldn't it be afrigaans then?
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20:08:45 <Ammler> I have spoken to packman guy, now. :-)
20:09:07 <Ammler> the problem is that 0.6.0RC > 0.6.0
20:14:07 <Ammler> does someone here use the debian packages?
20:14:43 <Ammler> packman says, that debian users will have the same problem.
20:15:03 <lobster> what kind of OS is Debian anyway?
20:15:31 <Ammler> lobster, wasn't serious?
20:15:47 <lobster> sorry, i was... i'm a bit of a noob, perhaps
20:16:17 <Ammler> Debian ist a independent Linux Distribution
20:16:32 <Brianetta> although they're adamant that they don't *have* to use Linux
20:16:50 <lobster> sort of the Linux splinter group
20:16:52 <Brianetta> They'd be happy to use Hurd if it, you know, actually existed
20:17:08 <Brianetta> Linux splinter group?
20:17:38 <lobster> splinter group is a radical faction of a larger entity
20:17:48 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: my SwissTowns grf :-)
20:17:55 <lobster> it was a figure of speech
20:18:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but they are... swiss...
20:18:17 <Prof_Frink> lobster: rms' beard is the radical faction of linuxy peoples
20:19:44 <Ammler> not sure, if german towns can be generated...
20:20:04 <Ammler> well, you could maybe combine it with real names.
20:21:19 <Ammler> there is no Debian user here?
20:22:35 <Brianetta> Announcement: Brianetta's Standard Server is hosting a guest scenario by Chrill.
20:23:14 <Eddi|zuHause> btw, Brianetta, some fact about the licensing stuff for MBs graphics, technically, licenses in germany (by default) only cover uses that are known at the time of giving the license, so when the grf was released long before newgrf support in openttd was to be expected, the license would not cover the use in openttd
20:24:21 <Ammler> [22:22] <Brianetta> All are welcome. <-- you mean 10 :P
20:25:40 <petern> There are Debian users here, yes.
20:27:05 <Prof_Frink> Debian GNU/Linux 4.0
20:27:49 <Ammler> [22:25] <petern> There are Debian users here, yes. <-- could they install the 0.6.0RC1 and check if debian detect 0.6.0 as update.
20:30:17 <Brianetta> Eddi: I'm not subject to German law
20:31:06 <petern> But as they're not in a repo, I can't tell you what happens for updates.
20:31:21 <petern> However, I shall assume that the debian packages are not retarded, and will upgrade properly.
20:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: concerning copyright, both the jurisdiction of the copyright holder, and the jurisdiction of the licensee/potential copyright infringer matters
20:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: one effect of this is for example licenses given out to distribute music do not cover distributing music over the internet, if the license is given out before 1995
20:34:29 <Eddi|zuHause> in that case, new licenses covering the previously unknown way of distributing must be given out
20:34:47 <Eddi|zuHause> (and paid for in an appropriate way)
20:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it probably won't have an effect on trivial changes, like switching from CDs to DVDs, as they basically are the same
20:36:27 <Brianetta> Eddi: Thanks for the legal advice. I shall take it all on board.
20:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i have to deny the fact that this is legal advice. you need to be a certified lawyer to give legal advice, which i am not ;)
20:38:41 <Brianetta> OK, off to watch Death Race 2000
20:38:47 <Prof_Frink> Note to self: Point at something not-IRC when wiping dust off middle mouse button
20:38:49 <Brianetta> See how it ocmparesto the one in the cinema
20:39:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: i suggest turning off the mouse first :p
20:39:38 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: Not that easy
20:39:56 <Prof_Frink> Well, I could probably poke something in /dev
20:40:18 <Prof_Frink> But I don't know what
20:46:48 <petern> That's an alphabetic directory list.
20:47:26 <glx> filename and internal version are different things
20:49:21 <petern> Ammler, again, complain to the packman package packager, not us :)
20:50:33 <Ammler> hmm, maybe the "-1" does the "trick"
20:51:32 <glx> for debian the "~" does the trick
20:51:43 <glx> not in filename but in version
20:56:59 <blathijs> petern: Ammler: The Debian versioning is correct, ~ is sorted before everything, including the end-of-string
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20:59:35 <blathijs> Ammler: And the ~ has been added to allow exactly these kinds of versioning schemes to work (works since Debian etch IIRC)
20:59:58 <petern> Way before etch, I'm sure.
21:00:10 <petern> So I'm probably wrong :D
21:00:40 <Ammler> so openttd is not the only app using that scheme?
21:03:06 <fjb> I'm giving up trying to start a game before 1831.
21:03:49 <blathijs> petern: No, the ~ was added not too long ago. Perhaps sarge, but certainly not before that.
21:05:48 *** Yexo is now known as Guest2833
21:07:25 <blathijs> petern: It's only one release before Etch, so I wouldn't say "way before Etch" :-)
21:07:34 <blathijs> Ammler: Yeah, there are other apps using that scheme
21:08:18 <Ammler> just wondering, if it is a "specia"l openttd scheme, or something official debianish.
21:08:35 <blathijs> Ammler: Try "aptitude search ~Vrc"
21:08:57 <Ammler> blathijs: I don't have debian
21:09:10 <blathijs> Ammler: Then install Debian first! :-p
21:09:17 <Ammler> that's why I am aksing such noobish question about.
21:09:41 <blathijs> I'd hazard a guess that under a percent of Debian users actually know about the version sorting of ~
21:09:44 <petern> True... everything's slow with debian :D
21:09:46 <blathijs> So hardly noobish :-p
21:09:52 <blathijs> petern: Just run unstable :-)
21:09:54 <petern> Possibly only TTDPatch's release schedule is slower.
21:10:02 <petern> blathijs, no, I *like* etch ;)
21:10:19 <fjb> babylon:~> aptitude search ~Vrc
21:10:23 <Ammler> well, debian is not for my league.
21:12:41 <Prof_Frink> petern: That's why we have Umbongo!
21:20:52 *** welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone
21:23:18 <Eddi|zuHause> <petern> Possibly only TTDPatch's release schedule is slower. <- then there's still MB's release schedule ;)
21:25:28 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: Three things:
21:25:44 <Prof_Frink> 2. Enlightenment DR17
21:25:50 <Prof_Frink> 2. Duke Nukem Forever
21:25:59 <Belugas> pffffff... time to go... at last
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21:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there's another one of those Scrubs puns that i can't imagine how the english original would have been.
21:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there's an episode where a danish patient is in the hospital, and he can't speak english, so his brother translates for him
21:54:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and the brother does not tell that the guy has a serious desease
21:54:55 <Aali> why dont you just watch the original episodes? :P
21:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> later in the episode there's a daydream where they stomp on red balloons, in the background playing "99 Luftballons" (99 red balloons)
21:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and after the daydream ends, JD says in the german version "'Dänen lügen nicht' wäre ein besserer Song gewesen"
21:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it translates as "'Danes don't lie' would have been a better song
21:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a play on another german song, called "Tränen lügen nicht"
21:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> (tears don't lie)
21:57:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i don't remember which season
21:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause> spontaneously i'd say around season 3
21:58:01 <Aali> yeah, its not after season 3
22:00:47 <Ammler> so does that mean, you need manual work for debian release?
22:02:20 <blathijs> Ammler: How is your grub config relevant?
22:03:14 <Ammler> I should sometime add windows again there :-)
22:03:39 <blathijs> Ammler: Normal dash in the debian version, or what?
22:03:44 <Ammler> but I fear the online updates
22:03:58 <Ammler> blathijs: the version string is: 0.6.3-RC1
22:04:25 <blathijs> Ammler: Is that what openttd reports, or aptitude?
22:04:26 <Ammler> so it seems, you manually change that for debian builds?
22:04:42 <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: season 2, episode 20, - My Interpretation ;)
22:04:50 <blathijs> yes, the Debian version number is always based on os/debian/changelog
22:05:38 <blathijs> And in the case of official Debian releases, the changelog file that I keep myself, outside of the openttd svn
22:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: so... what does he say there?
22:05:56 <blathijs> Anyway, I'm off to bed
22:06:15 <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: after that song?
22:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, right afterwars
22:09:20 <Aali> he just says: "Nah, that would never work"
22:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's really one of the rare occurances where the translation adds a joke ;)
22:19:20 <glx> <Eddi|zuHause> there's an episode where a danish patient is in the hospital, and he can't speak english, so his brother translates for him <-- hmm in french it's a german patient IIRC
22:23:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14433 /branches/noai/ (179 files in 10 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14420:14421.
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22:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: well, it is understandable that they change germans to non-germans in the german translation, to keep the language barrier story ;)
22:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the fact that they use a german song is a hint that it was originally about germans ;)
22:49:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14434 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14432): compile warning.
23:02:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14435 /branches/noai/ (194 files in 14 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14421:r14434
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