IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-09-24
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00:01:46 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
00:02:14 <Metalcore> i'm tryingto decide whether its worth it to figure how out how to get the nightlies <_<
00:02:55 <SmatZ> keep trying to figure out :)
00:03:38 <Metalcore> i assume the way to do it without having to actually compile (on windows) is to run the build_installers.bar
00:04:33 <welshdragon> trivia now playing on #welshdragon
00:08:51 <glx> Metalcore: you just need to extract the zip
00:13:35 <Metalcore> what's are the major feature differences between the current nightly and 0.6.2?
00:16:02 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
00:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the step from 0.6 to trunk is huge
00:18:39 * roboboy wishes we had pre PBS ie pbs with presignal support
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00:30:27 <Eddi|zuHause> another major feature is the order system
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00:50:16 <roboboy> i geuse the new go via option thingie
00:50:23 <glx> there are conditional orders too
00:54:14 <Metalcore> what's the status on cargodest?
00:56:48 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
01:05:11 <Belugas> status to cargodest? still not to destination
02:22:42 <Metalcore> man, cargodest is fun
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07:41:05 <SpComb> "there is still bug in ottd 6.2 ??"
08:11:26 * SpComb ponders shutting down MyOTTD today
08:17:10 <Rubidium> yeah, go for it and start with bugmenot
08:19:00 <peter1138> That can't be fun :)
08:19:47 <Rubidium> peter1138: especially the amount of companies, spectators and players of bugmenot.myottd.net
08:20:25 <SpComb> yes, it's almost historic now :)
08:21:17 <Rubidium> Yexo: those lines look somewhat more sane that than CSAI ;)
08:21:29 <Rubidium> looks like it failed to built some routes though
08:21:55 <Yexo> it did, but those are not visible in the image afaik
08:22:12 <Rubidium> inbound of M??fingpool Heights for example
08:23:27 <Yexo> it didn't report an error for failing to build anything though
08:24:07 <SpComb> but myes, I think I'm going to unplug it from the UPS it's on
08:24:14 <SpComb> then I just have to figure out what to do with said UPS
08:24:45 <SpComb> that'll be like 200€ for shipping
08:25:07 <SpComb> it ships as palette freight, which is somewhat expensive
08:25:23 <Rubidium> how big/heavy is it?
08:25:40 <SpComb> 2U, about a metre in depth, weighs 50-60kg, can't remember
08:26:17 <Noldo> what kind of Watts are we talking about
08:30:24 <peter1138> We binned all our APC UPSes
08:30:39 <peter1138> They were older models, though.
08:31:28 <peter1138> Similar to that one.
08:31:47 <peter1138> Notice the lack of ventilation...
08:32:25 <Tefad> it needs new batteries.
08:32:32 <peter1138> They basically cooked their batteries, so they only lasted a year.
08:32:44 <Tefad> mine sits under my compy
08:32:56 <peter1138> And then we'd have to take the machine apart, because the batteries would swell and get stuck inside.
08:33:17 <Tefad> i've had these batteries since 2005 or so
08:33:27 <Tefad> probably this time 2004 really
08:34:37 <Tefad> long outage is rare, and when they happen, i catch it soon enough to shut down. UPS would probably power my crap for 5mins if i wanted to right now
08:35:23 <Tefad> battery dead light has been coming on and off in 3month cycles since two years ago, but is now in a permanent state of HELP!!!
08:36:07 <peter1138> I've got a small APC UPS for my desktop actually. That lasts about 10-15 minutes, despite saying the battery is dead.
08:36:29 <Tefad> yup yup. i run a server, desktop and two CRTs off mine
08:36:51 <Tefad> typically the CRTs are asleep or i immediately kill one when the power goes out
08:37:08 <Tefad> doesn't complain about overload though
08:37:33 <Tefad> it did once when i accidentally plugged a 224 port switch into it : x
08:37:47 <Tefad> (i forgot which power strip i was holding)
09:09:41 <peter1138> My big switch is drawing 430W
09:09:59 <peter1138> At least, that's what it says :)
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10:14:27 <Tefad> this one had like.. 8 slots and dual power supplies
10:16:18 <Tefad> ah 9 slots. 1x management/console, 1x 4x1000BaseSX/SC, 7x 32x10BaseT/100BaseTX ports.
10:16:43 <Tefad> i think that thing was made in 1999 or 2000
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10:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause> a small switch :p
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10:18:16 <Tefad> lol, i've not seen many larger
10:18:33 <Tefad> i've seen a router the size of a rack with only two ports though
10:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> how much routing do 2 ports need?
10:19:21 <Tefad> routing is software level
10:19:31 <Tefad> i'm thinking it was multiplexed fiber
10:19:33 <Eddi|zuHause> a simple bridge/firewall would suffice
10:22:35 <Tefad> over a single strand, it's possible to have 4 full duplex connections
10:23:05 <Tefad> and it isn't uncommon to have six strands in one cable
10:55:11 <peter1138> Routing is hardware level on those sort of devices.
10:55:51 <peter1138> So they use a cheap and slow CPU to control it, and expensive hardware to route...
10:56:02 <peter1138> Instead of just cheap and fast CPUs
11:05:46 <roboboy> I keep geting network syncronisation erors on Brianetta's server
11:06:55 <Brianetta> devs: My server's running 0.6.3rc1
11:10:22 <roboboy> hm no desync yet again
11:14:32 <roboboy> I have a simleish question. Is iit realistic that we pay running costs for a crashed train?
11:15:32 <Gekz> You gotsa pay for cleansing
11:15:54 <roboboy> apart from the removal of the wreck?
11:16:16 <Gekz> the reimbursement of the families that you killed
11:16:20 <Eddi|zuHause> rebuilding the infrastructure
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11:49:40 <roboboy> does anyone think YAPP will ever get any pre signal ability?
11:57:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
12:01:16 <peter1138> roboboy, it does not need it.
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12:24:14 <roboboy> does YAPP do pre signals by itself automaticaly?
12:24:50 <roboboy> it would be nice to specify what signals were pre exits at a minimum if yapp entry signals are auto pre entry
12:25:53 <roboboy> so then if you had a train entering a partially presignaled junction but its exit wasnt pre exit and all the pre exits were red it could still find its way out asuming a clear path was available
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12:36:42 <Vikthor> then you should clearly know that there is no need for exit signals, because if train can't find safe path past the signal it will wait
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12:42:14 <roboboy> but what if there is a station with a junction at it and you want your trains t the station to wait but not trains going down the other line if the station is full
12:42:16 <fjb> Do not put YAPP signals behind a junction, only before.
12:43:06 <fjb> No signal between the junczion and the start of the platform.
12:43:32 <SmatZ> or reversed two-way PBS
12:43:41 <SmatZ> you need presignals for priority lanes though...
12:48:15 <roboboy> so do you get full pre-signal behaviour with YAPP?
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14:02:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r14394 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
14:02:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-09-24 14:01:38
14:02:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 8 changed by ThomasA (8)
14:02:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 5 changed by sulai (5)
14:02:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 17 fixed, 4 changed by alyr (21)
14:02:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 45 changed by dlunch (45)
14:02:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 9 fixed by christian (9)
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14:09:59 <Ammler> has the webtranslator no access to 0.6 branch?
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14:14:06 <ln> Ammler: auxiliary verb needed.
14:14:39 <glx> Ammler: WT2 handles trunk only
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14:14:48 <hylje> i just accidentally the whole trunk
14:15:06 <vitogenowese> can someone help me with the osx toolchain? is there a mac doc?
14:16:02 <Ammler> thanks glx, that does explain the missing fixes on 0.6, I was told, they will go into it too.
14:16:53 <glx> we use a script for that (but it may fail)
14:17:58 <vitogenowese> for compiling for osx?
14:18:29 <Rubidium> Ammler: what missing fixes?
14:19:07 <Ammler> Rubidium: not bad things
14:19:15 <Ammler> just translation issues.
14:19:40 <Ammler> mostly not fitting buttons/windows
14:20:05 <glx> that's not really a translation issue ;)
14:20:15 <Ammler> but I do compile trunk to check if they are only discussed or commited already :-)
14:20:17 <Rubidium> Ammler: all strings that were changed in trunk and that are in 0.6 (but where english did not change in trunk) should be backported
14:20:18 <glx> some button are just too small for anything than english
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14:22:43 <Rubidium> but it's a script that backports the strings; it's way way too much work to do it manually
14:29:33 <Ammler> btw. is that still true, statin spread the only setting which slows down the game?
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14:30:51 <glx> IIRC that has been optimised
14:30:55 <Ammler> it is the only setting with a red text about :-)
14:31:35 <Ammler> I suggested the german translators to remove it, but they meant, that is something for the devs.
14:36:50 <Rubidium> Ammler: I don't know why the script didn't backport (some of) those strings
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14:56:56 <Ammler> Rubidium: doesn't look like
14:57:15 <Ammler> I need to checkout the release and install the patch to be sure
15:01:11 <Ammler> Rubidium: ok, most fixed
15:03:05 <Rubidium> Ammler: for the rest I don't have clue how to fix that easily (i.e. quickly)
15:03:31 <Ammler> no need, looks fine, as far as I see...
15:04:06 <Brianetta> Is it just me having trouble with the web site?
15:04:48 <murray> what part? works fine here
15:05:43 <Brianetta> I wanted the wiki, but I can't get www. either
15:08:11 <Brianetta> but that's text only
15:08:12 <Rubidium> Brianetta: there was a ddos attack on the ISP this afternoon, so it might be that it came from your ISP
15:08:26 <Brianetta> What, Derwentside District Council?
15:08:27 <Rubidium> i.e. that they blackholed data coming from there
15:08:52 <Brianetta> I knew they were a bit shabby, but not actually evil
15:08:57 <Rubidium> or from the ISPs they're peering with
15:09:25 <Brianetta> I think that's NTL and JaNET
15:09:55 <Brianetta> there's another, but I can't remember now who it is
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15:29:05 <FauxFaux> Tell me what you think about me.
15:29:19 <ozzy> you know the trams on ottd why are they so crap
15:30:32 <davis-> whats wrong with trams?
15:33:53 <fjb> Maybe his lacking skills in typing punctuations.
15:36:14 <ozzy> one trams can be 2 short second there old and boring you dont get many types
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15:41:00 <fjb> What is he trying to say? Can somebody translate it please?
15:42:53 <davis-> something about the tram length?
15:43:19 <davis-> and about the lack of different tram-vehicle , mayhabs.. idk
15:45:03 <fjb> Looks to me he only looked at the game two short seconds long.
15:45:36 <fjb> And then he got bored and old.
15:46:41 <Belugas> hooo.... 1) trams can too short 2) they are old and boring, you don't get many types
15:47:40 <Belugas> ozzy :, we are sorry, but you are not making much sens. if there was a question, i fail to translate of even understand it
15:53:59 <ozzy> i said the trams in open ttd are short but can be good but there are not many types
15:55:35 <Rubidium> then you should use a difference tram newgrf that has long(er) trams and more types
15:56:00 <ozzy> where do i get it then wise crack
15:56:40 <Rubidium> grfcrawler.tt-forums.net maybe
15:57:48 <Brianetta> ozzy: Suggesting that the stats of almost anything in the game be changed is going to be met with a similar answer. The newgrf specification allows all sorts of modifications.
16:01:47 <ozzy> but where do i put the things for ottd
16:05:49 <fjb> Some people really know how to ask politely.
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16:10:06 <ozzy> davis i downloaded my game for free
16:12:04 <davis-> I'm opped in (7/12) channels on (2) networks. I have the power over (295/740) users.
16:12:08 <fjb> ... money for nothing and games for free...
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16:36:16 <peter1138> Heh, no grfcrawler back then :D
16:40:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r14395 /trunk/src/ (11 files):
16:40:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2285]: crashes and GUI desyncs when order is deleted/modified while the timetable window is open
16:40:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix: close any dropdown and child windows in the Order and Timetable windows when selected order is deselected, deleted, ...
16:51:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r14396 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix: ctrl+right click at 'Go to nearest depot' order scrolled to depot with DepotID == 0
17:09:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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17:27:38 <Belugas> a guy nicknamed "dude" something is almost a candidate for little brain cells
17:28:03 <Belugas> is almost -- everytime--
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17:55:51 <Belugas> welll... at least, he said thanks :)
17:55:57 <Belugas> even if it was thnx...
17:56:05 <Belugas> better then nothing :S
17:57:38 <Eddi|zuHause> what's on my back?
17:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't know your classics :p
17:58:58 <frosch123> Belugas: just say you are too old for that
17:59:41 <frosch123> was a nice teeny movie, when I was a teenie :)
18:00:10 <frosch123> hmm, you are allowed to choose your favorite spelling
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18:03:00 <TrueBrain> frosch123: are you that old? :p
18:04:24 <frosch123> TrueBrain: Were you not allowed to see the movie because of its USK?
18:04:45 <TrueBrain> worked 21 hours in the last 2 days ....
18:05:05 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I Couldn't read back then
18:05:22 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: BC or AD :p
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18:11:31 <Belugas> TrueBrain, i know the feeling :) long hours of work, at home or at work, it's stil ling hours of NO FUCKING FUN
18:16:59 * TrueBrain gives Belugas a cookie: www.amazon.com
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18:31:11 <Brianetta> Is there any way to upload a saved game to a Wiki article?
18:49:36 <Belugas> "Fairies wear boots and you've got to believe me"
18:54:59 <hylje> YOU CAN'T PROVE THEY DON'T
18:55:46 <frosch123> technically the wee free man are also fairies...
18:55:58 <TrueBrain> I can proof you have your capslock on
18:57:12 <TrueBrain> [20:54] HYLJE KEYLOG *** spacslock ON
18:57:31 <Belugas> "i saw it i saw it with own true eyes"
18:57:43 <TrueBrain> Belugas: are there non-true eyes?
18:58:11 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: it is already active
18:58:14 <Belugas> blind eyes, eyes of the fool, etc...
18:58:29 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Never heard of beer goggles?
18:59:25 <Belugas> eyes that don't see, eyes of love, Ice
18:59:45 <Nite_Owl> At OpenTTD.org is there a reason for the forum link to go to only to the OpenTTD section of the forums instead of the main Board Index.
19:00:12 <Belugas> it's a pleasure to be illogical :D
19:00:30 <TrueBrain> Nite_Owl: ... you really arne't asking that question, are you?
19:00:50 <TrueBrain> why when I dial the pizza places, I don't get directories on the line?
19:02:10 <Belugas> "'Cause smoking and tripping is all that you do"
19:03:04 <Nite_Owl> Sort of. I understand the reason but not everyone is 'clever' enough to notice the Board Index link themselves and then move on to the larger world that make up the forums.
19:03:16 <Ammler> Nite_Owl: you can still load the main index with the logo or "Board index"
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19:03:44 <TrueBrain> Nite_Owl: when I call the pizza place, a few people know that they can ask to be redirected to directories ...
19:03:53 <frosch123> Nite_Owl: But it helps neebies to find the correct forum :)
19:06:35 <Nite_Owl> Understood. I did run into someone the other day who didn't know the rest of the forums existed so I was just wondering. Sort of looking to play to the lowest common denominator is all.
19:07:21 <Nite_Owl> I will shut up about it now.
19:08:15 <Ammler> I had once complained why on the wiki page the forum link doesn't like to the openttd category directly
19:09:12 <TrueBrain> Nite_Owl: the reversed question we got tons of times when it was pointing to the main board ... your way around is only asked once
19:09:16 <TrueBrain> about 10 minutes ago
19:09:45 <TrueBrain> (and for a link pointing to the subforums for like 3 years, that is impressive ;))
19:10:22 <glx> I guess the link is just forum.openttd.org
19:11:31 <Belugas> speakling of the wiki, someone sud (hihi) add an entry to the main wiki page about HOW TO INSTALL the game
19:12:06 <Belugas> "huuu... what are thos emissing files, dude?"
19:12:13 <TrueBrain> Belugas: you on the other hand my friend, should not drink as much beer :)
19:13:08 <Nite_Owl> The suds picture was darn funny
19:13:08 <Prof_Frink> cd pub/; more beer
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19:25:40 <blathijs> So, wrote another monster post about OpenGFX licensing on the forums...
19:25:56 <blathijs> I intended to write a quick reply...
19:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> just the usual stuff, then :p
19:27:24 <blathijs> The conclusion is that GPLv2 would be just fine for OpenGFX, so that's good :-)
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19:43:51 * Sacro cuddles Bjarni upon his return
19:44:04 *** Sacro was kicked by Bjarni (Sacro)
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19:58:38 <ln> ladies and gentlemen, Bjarni has left the channel.
19:59:48 <Sacro_> and the smell has gone with him
20:00:39 <welshdragon2> Sacro_, you evil bastard
20:00:54 <Nite_Owl> Elvis voice: Thank You Very Much.
20:01:01 <Sacro_> Bjarni loves me really
20:04:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
20:15:30 <Yexo> nice post blathijs, it explains pretty well why gpl v2 is a good option
20:23:07 <ln> ladies and gentlemen, Bjarni has re-entered the channel.
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20:59:50 <Ammler> I don't see why the license is that important, you didn't need it for distributing the generic trams...
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21:01:00 <Nite_Owl> That was a single person project I believe
21:02:28 <Nite_Owl> So no need for any kind of consensus
21:04:24 <Ammler> I could understand that discussion, if it would be for ALL NewGRFs, but it is only for one .
21:05:15 <Ammler> THAT is something, what should happen, a NewGRF repo with the same license for every author.
21:06:07 <Ammler> but there are already some authors saying, I will give my sprites for OpenGFX as GPL, but the others as CC etc....
21:07:22 <peter1138> Why should all authors distribute their work under the same license?
21:07:33 <peter1138> (Their separate works, that is)
21:07:44 <Ammler> wouldn't it make a "REPO" easier?
21:08:06 <peter1138> Giving me lots of money would make things easier, and I don't see that happening either.
21:08:44 <Ammler> how would that make it easier?
21:09:46 <Ammler> why was there no such discussions for other "Forum" GRFs like USSet, JPSet etc.?
21:10:03 *** welshdragon2 is now known as welshdragon
21:10:31 <Ammler> they needed around 5 posts to decide that.
21:11:13 <Nite_Owl> larger group = larger number of opinions
21:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause> because USSet, JPSet etc. are not intended to be an integral part of OpenTTD
21:12:48 <Ammler> if it would become integral part of OpenTTD, it would not need a license
21:13:01 <Ammler> it would use the same...
21:13:18 <Ammler> afaik, it will only be distributed with, like generic trams.
21:13:57 <Nite_Owl> That's the conclusion that was finally reached after all of the discussions
21:13:58 <Prof_Frink> Ammler: If it was part of openTTD is specifically needs a license that is compatible with GPLv2
21:14:51 <Ammler> well, I just mean, they needed around 10 pages to decide GPL is fine, other projects with same amount of people needed 5 posts.
21:17:10 <Nite_Owl> The discussion did go on for longer then was needed but that is just the way it goes sometimes
21:19:14 <Ammler> Prof_Frink: or no license like most things "addons" have.
21:21:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
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21:36:08 <blathijs> Yexo: Now let's just hope I've gathered enough license-fu over the years to make my interpretations actually correct :-)
21:45:58 <peter1138> Saving a network game as a spectator...
21:46:04 <peter1138> (undefined string), 14th May 2040
21:46:43 <peter1138> And an empty error message when loading it...
21:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe put the server name instead of the company name?
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23:25:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14397 /trunk/src/ (train_cmd.cpp video/win32_v.cpp win32.cpp): -Fix: possible buffer overrun, wrong parameter type passed to printf and && where || is meant. Found by MSVC's code analysis (Darkvater)
23:31:40 <Eddi|zuHause> someone having a relapse? :p
23:32:14 <Rubidium> nah, someone playing with his university's toys
23:45:03 <Ammler> Brianetta: I like that idea with the stop line to turn around.
23:45:41 <Ammler> I never reached that it worked...
23:47:09 <Brianetta> Ammler: Check out the saved game
23:49:31 <Ammler> yeah, just did, dunno, what I have done wrong.
23:53:19 <Ammler> it isn't such a "special style", imo.
23:55:06 <Brianetta> which is why it's in my user space
23:55:33 <Brianetta> All my terminus stations are really rarely used
23:55:48 <Brianetta> Mostly they're used by people who learned it from me on my server
23:56:16 <Ammler> did you play already with NARS2?
23:56:27 <Ammler> there are trains, which don't turn around
23:56:35 <Brianetta> at the end of the line?
23:56:38 <Ammler> you need to do that with orders... and sidlines
23:56:53 <Brianetta> Plenty of scope for that
23:57:12 <Ammler> well, actually, dunno if NARS2 has those, but Canset has it for sure.
23:57:41 <Ammler> Brianetta: yes, they are called push&pull on the canset.
continue to next day ⏵
