IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-08-18
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07:21:10 <Celestar> cardodest is DIFFICULT
07:25:19 <AmixE90> OpenTTD is scary. Sometimes you see those tracks in dreams ;p
07:27:05 <planetmaker> maybe you should consider starting the anonymous openttds ;)
07:27:51 <Forked> well irc is in itself pretty anonymous .. and we are in the channel #openttd
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07:33:51 <peter1138> Celestar, difficult?
07:35:47 <Celestar> peter1138: to get rid of all the pax :)
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07:43:15 <Forked> I can guess what thread that came from :)
07:44:43 <Celestar> Noldo_: an IC made in OF
07:49:02 <Celestar> sorry I'm just working with OF here :P
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07:59:35 <Celestar> Rubidium: got a minute?
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08:18:09 <Tim> Good luck for Cargodestinations, i can't await it :)
08:20:15 <Celestar> Tim: it's going pretty well already
08:22:04 <Celestar> Tim: try it if you wish
08:23:54 <Tim> That'd be cool, where to get it?
08:25:11 <taur> So, there are plenty of aircrafts in OpenTTD - but the models aren't very different from each other, are they?
08:25:13 <taur> I'm wondering, wich ones are the "best choice"?
08:25:48 <Celestar> Tim: what platform are you on?
08:26:54 <Rubidium> Celestar: I reckon I have
08:27:10 <Celestar> Tim: get some hg/mercurial client and download it (=
08:27:17 <Celestar> Tim: you'll hav eto compile it yourself however
08:27:29 <Celestar> Rubidium: you wanna do a code review at some point?
08:28:29 <Rubidium> fine by me, though I first want to get rid of a desync
08:29:39 <Tim> Any guess when we can expect it in trunk? ;)
08:29:39 <Tim> Besides "When it's done" :P
08:29:39 <peter1138> taur, the best ones are the ones with the best specs... no?
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08:30:51 <Kloopy_> Cardodests is mature enough for a code review?
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08:31:11 <Tim> When did you start working on it?
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08:32:17 <Rubidium> why would something be mature for a(n initial) code review?
08:32:41 <Celestar> Tim: three weeks ago about, maybe four
08:33:21 <Kloopy> Because there's no point reviewing it when it's far from complete... the code is highly likely to change and then Rubidium gets upset that Celestar is wasting time by forcing Rubidium to do more than one code review. :P
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08:34:09 <Rubidium> so you have to wait till something is completely finished to be code reviewed and then determine there's a design error which means a complete rewrite?
08:35:09 <taur> peter1138: Obviously ... but how should I define the "best specs" ... e.g. the Darwin300 seems to heave the highest capacity (at least in 1982) but also high costs and it's not the fastest :-/
08:35:11 <taur> It's just, there are so many aircraft models, I find it difficult to decide which one to use ... on the other hand, the various ship models are quite easy to overlook :-)
08:35:12 <taur> And for road vehicles it's clear to me: The faster, the better!
08:35:46 <Kloopy> No, I'm not suggesting that... I'm suggest that fundemental design problems are sorted at the design stages.:)
08:35:53 <Celestar> Rubidium: it'd be awesome if you could have a look at it. Besides src/routing.* We've added quite some members to the Order class and mangled the station view window. Intrusion in other parts of the code is virtually non-existant (=
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08:36:26 <peter1138> We need to merge the savegame changes.
08:36:54 <Celestar> peter1138: yes, but I think we should do this once and only once
08:36:54 <Kloopy> taur, I normally use the Darwin300 and the "concorde", whatever it's called.
08:37:00 <Kloopy> One for capacity and one for speed.
08:37:10 <Celestar> I usually use the Aviator's set for planes (=
08:37:43 <Rubidium> Celestar: why is galadriel in denial hg of service?
08:38:54 <Celestar> Rubidium: because the hardware crapped (it's my workstation). use arwen.fvfischer.de:8000 instead
08:38:59 <Celestar> Rubidium: or peter's server
08:40:17 <taur> Kloopy: Ah, I see, capacity matters for the crowded airports and speed for the long distances ... okay, that's a strategy, I may try :-)
08:40:19 <taur> So basically I decide for two (or so) aircrafts and forget about the other models...
08:40:37 <Kloopy> And I usually make tonnes of cash :D
08:40:55 <Celestar> Kloopy: cargodest is not far from completion unless we're hitting a largish desync problem, which we might (=
08:41:00 <Rubidium> they have the best capacity per tile used and the highest throughput per station tile
08:41:01 <Celestar> gotta grab some food
08:41:21 <Celestar> Rubidium: only because you can have an infinite number of them on a tile :P
08:41:42 <Rubidium> Celestar: that's a lie
08:42:08 <taur> Rubidium: Really? I'm using ships only for oil rigs and sometimes for people transport between cities directly on the water :-)
08:42:10 <Celestar> Rubidium: a *very high* number (=
08:42:42 <Kloopy> Celestar: That's good news. Well done :D
08:43:28 <Celestar> Kloopy: test it. I need testers
08:48:28 <planetmaker> Celestar: we could set up a new cargodest game on the dev server
08:49:20 <Rubidium> why doesn't boost make changelogs?
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08:54:48 <Kloopy> Is boost part of the repository yet?
08:59:11 <taur> Thank you for the advice on the aircrafts, cu :-)
08:59:50 * peter1138 compiles a cargo-dest server too.
09:06:18 <Celestar> peter1138: I still don't like Debug() :(
09:06:55 <Celestar> peter1138: btw I have found a possible desync reason this weekend and fixed it
09:07:29 <Celestar> er .. or not .. wait...
09:07:41 <Celestar> peter1138: not yet, need testing.
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09:08:23 <Celestar> hm .. we still have quite some loose ends to tie up, haven't we?
09:08:56 <Celestar> peter1138: one fix is on arwen. Cache was not invalidated when a vertex was removed
09:09:32 <Celestar> the other is just a theory about the edges not being in the same order on all clients. not sure it makes any difference
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09:32:51 * peter1138 ponders running his server as a coop game.
09:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> shared infrastructure!
09:37:20 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm doing some critical commits at the moment, maybe you want to wait a few minutes longer
09:39:24 <Celestar> peter1138: done and pushed
09:40:15 <Brianetta> Shared infrastructure (:
09:40:27 <Brianetta> I want to run trains on your lines
09:40:37 <Forked> I want to stop trains on your lines! muahahahahiaoiha
09:40:38 <Brianetta> stop at your stations
09:40:41 *** Noldo_ is now known as Noldo
09:40:51 <Forked> all your passengers are belong to me
09:41:01 <Brianetta> Forked: Trains would be under control of the line's owner
09:41:24 <Brianetta> I would steal all your trains if they dared to trespass (:
09:41:38 <Brianetta> Click... send to depot
09:42:16 <Brianetta> You can pay the ransom or sell the train
09:42:23 <Eddi|zuHause> mainly i want to build my tram station next to a competitor's train station
09:42:24 <Brianetta> The ransom's less than the train's worth
09:42:30 <Celestar> heh .. did anyone actually test shared infrastructure in a network game?
09:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: i think the WWOTTDGD people did
09:42:51 <Brianetta> Celestar: Never played it. Never played subsids either.
09:43:25 <Celestar> Brianetta: shared infrastructure would be (imho) awesome with cargodest
09:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is as far as my knowledge about that patch goes :p
09:43:45 <Ammler> Celestar: that was stable
09:43:55 <Brianetta> Celestar: Probbaly. I like the idea of franchising routes on your network to other operators.
09:44:00 <Celestar> peter1138: I think we need to change the payment philosophy with cargodest. Pay each vehicle fully for its part of the route, otherwise most vehicle make losses
09:44:00 <Ammler> we had only desyncs because of autoreplace
09:44:12 <Celestar> Ammler: WHAT? autoreplace desyncs? :P
09:44:39 <Brianetta> what would openttd's god do?
09:45:48 <Vikthor> Brianetta: I thought only KuDr is officially listed as god in readme ;)
09:46:42 <Celestar> when cargodest is in trunk, will my "inactive" status be lifted? (=
09:46:57 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i've got a YAPP problem... when you build a signal in a train's path, it shortens it reservation to that signal, but when you then turn around that signal, it does not re-extend its path
09:47:10 <Celestar> peter1138: why is the YAPP author not in the credits?
09:47:28 <peter1138> Celestar, I noticed that "transfer credits" are always zero.
09:47:45 <peter1138> So payments are not correct.
09:48:04 <Brianetta> Vikthor: It's a matter of faith.
09:48:13 <Celestar> peter1138: checking it
09:49:22 <Celestar> peter1138: the overall payment is correct afaik
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09:51:29 <Celestar> peter1138: also the texteffects show the numbers correctly
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09:55:05 <Celestar> peter1138: nfi why this doesn't work
10:01:33 <Brianetta> Eddi: Signals didn't shorten the reservation in earlier YAPPs
10:01:52 <Brianetta> The signal was just green, with a reservation right through it
10:02:29 <Celestar> Brianetta: yeah, but that cause problems afaik
10:03:34 <Celestar> peter1138: maybe the cargolist cache does it wrong or something
10:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: yeah, i think that was better... except when placing a one-way signal in the wrong direction...
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10:28:38 <Celestar> peter1138: I don't see the reason why the transfer credits are zero
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10:30:41 <Rubidium> Celestar: any idea how to get the diff of trunk to cargop?
10:31:04 <Celestar> Rubidium: 1) let me merge first, 2) ask the peops of ottdcoop, they did it (=
10:31:20 <planetmaker> I think Yexo knows.
10:32:21 <Ammler> we just diffed the hg repo to the last merged svn rev
10:33:46 <Rubidium> that's not what I'm after
10:34:52 <Celestar> Rubidium: can't hg diff compare two urls?
10:35:20 <Rubidium> oh, it's dead easy to get a diff ;)
10:36:41 <Rubidium> hg diff -r <last rev of trunk in hg>
10:37:01 <Rubidium> hmm, cargop is already twice the size of YAPP
10:38:32 <peter1138> hg diff -r never worked for me.
10:39:44 <Celestar> Rubidium: yeah, with mostly comments in routing.h :P
10:39:49 <_MsG_> the svn translate folder isn't there
10:39:55 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Is it bigger than YAPF+YAPP?
10:40:13 <Rubidium> Brianetta: what have YAPF+YAPP to do with eachother?
10:40:14 <Brianetta> I seem to remember that YAPF was written inorder to make a decent PBS possible.
10:40:31 <Brianetta> Well, that's what Kudr was saying at the time
10:40:32 <Rubidium> well... YAPP works for NPF and OTP too
10:40:49 <peter1138> YAPP was over 200...
10:41:11 <Rubidium> IIRC it was 100-ish, but then I can be wrong
10:41:20 <Brianetta> Rubidium: YAPP doesn't work for NPF and OTP. Even if you choose those pathfinders, PBS signals use YAPF.
10:41:49 <Brianetta> The original path finder
10:41:58 <peter1138> Old train pathfinder.
10:42:07 <Brianetta> it certainly wasn't the one from TTD (:
10:42:08 <Yorick> there is no old train pathfinder
10:42:17 <Yorick> it got replaced by NTP
10:42:32 <Noldo> Yorick: replaced? there is a patch option
10:42:59 <Yorick> Noldo: I made the patch that added that option
10:43:11 <Yorick> the train options are NTP, NPF and YAPF
10:43:16 <Rubidium> Brianetta: sorry, but TryReserveSafeTrack doesn't always use YAPF
10:43:36 <Rubidium> and yes, large parts use the trackfollower of YAPF, but that doesn't mean it uses YAPF
10:43:50 <Celestar> what are we just discussing?
10:44:05 <peter1138> Is there a case for removing NPF yet?
10:44:30 <Rubidium> it works better in some cases that YAPF
10:44:32 <Yorick> is there a case for removing NTP yet?
10:44:43 <Yorick> NPF is used by the nintendo ds port
10:44:46 <peter1138> Only for annoying DaleStan :D
10:47:29 <XeryusTC> hmm, cargo dests crashes when a train tries to load cargo here
10:47:57 <peter1138> Damn, still can't get to wiki.openttd.org
10:48:06 <Rubidium> peter1138: how good's your hungarian?
10:48:09 <peter1138> And the worst bit is, I actually wanted to get to the company internal wiki...
10:48:19 <Celestar> XeryusTC: give me a savegame?
10:48:38 <XeryusTC> i only have destinations for passengers enabled, but it crashes when i try to load other cargoes (haven't tried passengers yet)
10:52:20 <Celestar> :S why are we renaming "prev" to "previous" ?
10:54:31 <XeryusTC> Celestar: btw, my debug says it crashes at economy.cpp:1645
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10:56:08 <Celestar> XeryusTC: I'll check in a few minutes
10:56:17 <Celestar> XeryusTC: merge from trunk is giving me headahces
10:57:26 <peter1138> Shouldn't be much to merge, surely?
10:59:40 <peter1138> Ah, quite a bit related to shared orders :o
11:00:03 <Rubidium> should all be trivial to solve
11:01:00 <Rubidium> and I renamed it to be consistent with the vehicle chain variables
11:01:11 <Celestar> Rubidium: I've noticed
11:01:12 <Yorick> are there any nightly hosts?
11:01:57 <XeryusTC> Celestar: the crash seems to happen because the cargo has no destination
11:02:09 <XeryusTC> as i have that patch option enabled now, and it doesn't crash anymore
11:03:18 <_MsG_> where is the lang folder where they talk about
11:03:23 <_MsG_> I want to translate in proper dutch
11:03:34 <Celestar> _MsG_: you use the webtranslator for that
11:03:50 <Yorick> svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk/src/lang
11:03:54 <_MsG_> of course but I need a eng langfile
11:04:09 <Yorick> and dutch is already translated
11:04:20 <_MsG_> yeah but not really "dutch"
11:04:28 <_MsG_> I annoy me about the tons of mistakes
11:04:39 <Yorick> and dont underestimate the size of the files
11:04:57 <_MsG_> Like (example) Steen Fabriek
11:05:02 <XeryusTC> _MsG_: you need to keep the length of the string in mind
11:05:13 <_MsG_> ... in Holland almost everything is written without a space
11:05:14 <Yorick> peter1138: heh, common dutch saying
11:05:28 <Yorick> _MsG_: Steen Fabriek is not in the language file
11:05:40 <Yorick> I think it is in the grf file that defines a brickfactory
11:05:41 <_MsG_> Ok I will find one now :P
11:06:15 <Celestar> _MsG_: langs are not translated by diffing the text file mostly
11:06:56 <_MsG_> So I am not allowed to correct dutch mistakes?
11:06:56 <Celestar> XeryusTC: I can't load that savegame?
11:07:05 <_MsG_> but instead i am supposed to completely make my own translation?
11:07:23 <Celestar> _MsG_: er no, if you want help translating, you should become a translator
11:07:30 <Celestar> who's maintainer the translation system ?
11:07:32 <_MsG_> Yeah that's what I want :P
11:07:41 <DorpsGek> Celestar: Mihamix was last seen in #openttd 30 weeks, 6 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <MiHaMiX> s/t$/d/
11:07:49 <_MsG_> I want to make the dutch language more less "tenenkrommend" :p
11:08:05 <ln> _MsG_: in reality, though, you cannot become a translator.
11:08:09 <XeryusTC> Celestar: hmm, maybe it is because i have a somewhat outdated version of the repository
11:08:17 <XeryusTC> but i can't update it seems :o
11:08:23 <Celestar> XeryusTC: galadriel is dead
11:08:27 <_MsG_> I can't just edit the file?
11:08:35 <Yorick> but it won't get in trunk
11:08:40 <Celestar> XeryusTC: arwen.fvfischer.de:8000
11:08:47 <ln> _MsG_: if there are already enough translators for a certain language, MiHaMiX will not accept more. there's nothing you can do about that.
11:09:04 <_MsG_> but is the translation of dtuch still active?
11:09:07 <Celestar> _MsG_: it would be difficult if 50+ all sent their own diffs, hence the webtranslator
11:09:17 <_MsG_> And is it a capable guy? because I see many mistakes
11:09:31 <XeryusTC> Celestar: hmm, does hg have something like svn switch then?
11:09:38 * XeryusTC doesnt know squat about hg :P
11:09:40 <_MsG_> they need to check the incorrect spacing
11:09:52 <ln> _MsG_: you cannot critisize the quality, because MiHaMiX does not know dutch and cannot confirm your claims.
11:09:55 <Yorick> hmm, webtranslator2 is also down
11:09:58 <Celestar> XeryusTC: yes, just do "hg pull" from another source
11:10:08 <Ammler> I would also like to participate with translation, but I found no help for starting...
11:10:09 <_MsG_> so basically it isnt as easy as they handle it @ the XBMC team, with translation?
11:10:23 <peter1138> And who are the XBMC team?
11:10:28 <Celestar> Yorick: everything that is hosted in hungary is down
11:10:31 <Yorick> Ammler: just add the language file
11:10:36 <Celestar> the question is: do we have backups?
11:10:43 <Ammler> Yorick: I have one local :-)
11:10:46 <_MsG_> I will translate it for myself then with proper dutch :P
11:10:47 <Yorick> Celestar: including webtranslator, nightly and wiki?
11:11:01 <rortom> hungary server dead? D:
11:11:23 <Rubidium> how often do I have to say the server isn't dead, but just apache running on that server
11:11:34 <Yorick> apache is known as a server
11:12:02 <ln> the biggest problems of OTTD translations: 1) the use of a proprietary .txt/strgen system, 2) MiHaMiX, 3) WebTranslator
11:12:19 <Ammler> and it should go out of trunk...
11:12:45 <_MsG_> :) I don't really care about the second, if it isn't allowed, ok then I will be the only one enjoying a proper dutch translation :)
11:13:04 <Rubidium> Ammler: why do you want it handled like grfs?
11:13:10 <XeryusTC> translations are gay anyway, i prefer to keep playing in english
11:13:23 <Yorick> that's why he wnats to change
11:13:23 <Ammler> to speed up compiling and distributing of bundles
11:13:34 <Ammler> the bundle would be 30% smaller
11:13:35 <_MsG_> With that attitude you don't expand OTTD to a wider area
11:13:49 <peter1138> Compiling languages takes about half a second.
11:13:51 <_MsG_> Or do you expect a random 8 year old guy to fully understand english
11:14:00 <Rubidium> Ammler: and the management of the langauges takes 500% more
11:14:07 <Yorick> MsG: I did when I had that age...
11:14:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: you practically need a new grfpack for each version...
11:14:29 <XeryusTC> if you can read you can understand ottd
11:14:39 <Yorick> and random 8 year old guys that don't fully understand english are not encouraged to go playing openttd
11:14:40 <XeryusTC> except from all the numbers in the buy windows maybe :P
11:14:51 <Ammler> well, we would have a language repo
11:15:06 <_MsG_> lol why translate it to other languages then
11:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause> we do have a language repo...
11:15:17 <_MsG_> Talking about Conservative Open Source
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11:15:40 <Ammler> teh russians distributed their pack that way.
11:15:49 <_MsG_> lol the translater is down
11:15:53 <peter1138> More like talking by people not actually involved in the project.
11:16:14 <peter1138> Translations are good. We prefer them via WT2 because of its features.
11:16:33 <_MsG_> I want to participate with translating but not allowed, while the dutch language in the game is not really of a good quality
11:16:36 <XeryusTC> Ammler: that's because the russians made it use different characters, which wasn't possible with an older OTTD (before ft)
11:16:51 <Yorick> peter1138: the dutch translation is generally concidered low quality
11:17:02 <peter1138> Nobody said you are not allowed.
11:17:05 <Ammler> XeryusTC: I meant the patchpack...
11:17:14 <peter1138> Yorick, and you're dutch.
11:17:34 <_MsG_> Above you guys said that some guy doesn't want any more translaters
11:17:49 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: do you know the german translater?
11:18:09 <_MsG_> but why is everything depending on one guy?
11:18:17 <Eddi|zuHause> who is that nowadays? i have not seen anyone active lately...
11:18:19 <_MsG_> then you kill the whole open source idea imo
11:18:22 <Ammler> or a general question, is it possible to see somewhere, who does make the translation?
11:18:32 <peter1138> That's a separate issue.
11:18:58 <Ammler> _MsG_: you could speak to the dutch translator...
11:19:02 <_MsG_> but with this kind of bureaucracy you don't get many happy guys wanting to help :)
11:19:11 <_MsG_> Where can I find the guy
11:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> afaik there are up to 3 translators per language
11:19:38 <Rubidium> _MsG_: so you want ANYONE to change ANY translation at ANY time without ANY controlling or ANY language?
11:19:46 <peter1138> But inactive translators can be... pruned.
11:19:50 <Rubidium> then you will get massive amounts of spam and such
11:20:06 <Yorick> MsG: he's currently not available, that's why the hungary servers can't be restarted...
11:20:18 <_MsG_> But nowadays you just give some guys rights to make translation (how do you know they are good in spellings and stuff?) and rely on them
11:20:28 <_MsG_> the XBMC has the system of anybody to translate
11:20:54 <_MsG_> the users are the controlling guys
11:20:55 <peter1138> And you can do that.
11:21:07 <_MsG_> I do translation @ XBMC yes
11:21:23 <_MsG_> and they need to be checked before adding to every version of course
11:21:24 <Rubidium> _MsG_: WT2 was meant to support everybody to post suggestions for translations
11:21:41 <Rubidium> but as usual with open source development, there was not enough time to implement it
11:21:47 <_MsG_> people aren't about to kill a translation with stupid translation :)
11:22:10 <_MsG_> If people really put time in translating things, why would they harm a translation?
11:22:11 <peter1138> Oh, is WT2 open source now?
11:22:48 <Rubidium> _MsG_: you don't want to know how many people are trashing the wiki and the forum
11:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause> ... say all 13 year old punks...
11:23:06 <_MsG_> ok :) sorry I wasn't aware of that
11:23:09 <Rubidium> or trashing openttd servers by crashing other people's vehicles and such
11:23:09 <rortom> _MsG_: ottd is quite a big project, things are moving smooth and slowly ;)
11:23:17 <_MsG_> maybe they harm the website because they await proper translation :P
11:23:26 <peter1138> I am quite surprised there are a ton of dutch people playing who've never complained.
11:23:30 <_MsG_> :P but XBMC is also very big but it isn't that slowly :P
11:23:41 <Yorick> most of them can't find this channel
11:24:01 <_MsG_> I don't say I can't understand what they mean, but seriously, if you would check it by a teacher in the dutch language you would get an F
11:24:14 <_MsG_> and hence the fact that many dutcheans :P can read and write proper english
11:24:16 <Yorick> usual response when I post a screenshot is "you
11:24:28 <Yorick> are using the dutch translation :')"
11:24:57 <peter1138> Posting a screenshot in dutch is nothing at all like saying "this translation is wrong".
11:25:03 <Rubidium> 30 active developers vs 10 active developers <- now who has more "time"?
11:25:19 <_MsG_> isn't there a offline tool for it? the translate website is gone
11:25:34 <Yorick> MsG: you could try notepad with svn diff...
11:25:52 <_MsG_> yeah but the txt file is very bloated, not even lined out properly :P
11:26:05 <peter1138> Bloated? It's all the text...
11:27:35 <peter1138> As long as word wrapping is off, there shouldn't be a problem with any text editor.
11:27:47 <peter1138> Except maybe notepad's 64KB limit...
11:27:58 <XeryusTC> Celestar: it seems ottd still crashes when a vehicle loads cargo that doesn't have a destination
11:29:28 <Yorick> peter1138: and the linebreak format
11:29:37 <Rubidium> and yes, we know having one "administrator" for the translations isn't the best solution, however we are working on changing that, but again it takes time to get everything done properly
11:29:59 <peter1138> Then it's not been checked out of svn in the right format.
11:29:59 <_MsG_> What type of file is it needed to be?
11:30:46 <_MsG_> because I encounter things like "Industrieën" instead of "Industrien"
11:32:41 <_MsG_> why don't you host OTTD @ SF?
11:32:55 <Rubidium> because SF sucks in many many ways
11:33:42 <Rubidium> uploading nightlies and such: can't be automated
11:33:48 <Rubidium> uploading releases: can't be automated
11:34:07 <Rubidium> doesn't allow running custom services
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11:34:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i am amazed how many different people made invisible engines already :p
11:35:30 <Rubidium> _MsG_: why doesn't XBMC use SF for their website?
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11:36:07 <_MsG_> they use the sourceforge system
11:36:15 <Rubidium> not for their website
11:36:38 <Rubidium> only for their release files (as we do)
11:36:57 <Ammler> most project I know, use sf only that way...
11:37:05 <_MsG_> I didn't knew you use sf alreayd
11:37:19 <Rubidium> and for their svn and maybe the patch tracker
11:37:26 <_MsG_> I don't know any project which is professional that uses the stock sf website :)
11:37:40 <Rubidium> but those are horribly slow
11:37:49 <Brianetta> I was disappointed that my diesel shunter couldn't tow an EMU set over a non-electric line in UKRS.
11:37:50 <Rubidium> Ammler: ofcourse not
11:37:55 <Brianetta> It said they weren't compatible.
11:38:03 <Rubidium> and they don't have a svn -> hg/git bridge
11:38:26 <_MsG_> they switched patching system
11:38:34 <_MsG_> they used sf, but now they switched
11:38:54 <Rubidium> so that shows that there're more people thinking that SF sucks
11:39:45 <Ammler> what about code.google.com?
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11:39:55 <rortom> i really like coge.google.com :)
11:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: you'll have to talk with pikka about that
11:39:57 <Celestar> did anyone say aything? :P
11:40:24 <Ammler> rortom: does it support scp and such?
11:40:24 <peter1138> Celestar, nothing interesting.
11:40:36 <rortom> Ammler: no, just basic svn
11:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> he just wanted to show off that he can login to Celestar again :p
11:40:52 <Ammler> so you would need to upload releases over commits :-)
11:40:56 <rortom> its very slim compared to SF
11:41:09 <_MsG_> Do I need to fix things like "industrieën" or will it be converted in-game? Because it need to show "Industrien"
11:41:24 <peter1138> No, you need to use a UTF-8 capable editr.
11:41:55 <_MsG_> but is UTF-8 capable of and stuff?
11:42:04 <peter1138> Automated teller machine?
11:42:12 <Rubidium> the file is UTF-8 and the file is correct
11:42:31 <Rubidium> not being able to load the file correctly is solely a problem of your editor or the configuration of your editor
11:43:25 <Celestar> STR_NEWS_INDUSTRY_OPEN :{YELLOW}Openen van industriën <= it looks fine to me
11:43:42 <_MsG_> notepad shows wordpad doesn't
11:44:05 <Rubidium> then wordpad "thinks" to be smart and uses the wrong encoding
11:44:11 <ln> _MsG_: UTF-8 is *in-fucking-deed* capable of "ë è é and stuff", as well as thousands of other characters.
11:45:19 <Celestar> _MsG_: use a *proper* editor
11:45:22 <_MsG_> I think it is made by design that Wordpad doesn't show
11:45:25 <Celestar> neither notepad nor wordpad is that
11:45:43 <_MsG_> I don't code so I am happy with the stock M$ stuff
11:45:56 <_MsG_> and yes I use Windows, how's that
11:46:00 <rortom> wordpad fails for unicode i think?
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11:46:21 * Rubidium reckons wordpad only supports utf-16
11:46:36 <Rubidium> but only in little endian
11:47:18 <Celestar> I fucked up the loading of previous savegames with the recent merge
11:47:42 <Rubidium> Celestar: that's expected
11:47:56 <peter1138> As long as trunk games load...
11:48:26 <Celestar> that sucks for debugging
11:49:05 <Rubidium> you can mess about with it so it temporary loads your savegame, save in the new format and commit a version that loads trunk
11:49:22 <Celestar> but I don't see where in the merge the saveload revision was changed
11:49:44 <Rubidium> I COND_NULL-ed a variable to be removed from the savegame at the next bump
11:49:51 <Celestar> Rubidium: which one?
11:50:04 <Rubidium> the variable formerly known as prev_shared
11:50:13 <Celestar> wasn't it NOSAVE anywaY?
11:51:00 <Rubidium> it wasn't necessary to be saved before either
11:52:16 <Celestar> Rubidium: it is of no relevance at what saveload revision the "branch" is right. after merge it will always be current_revision++ in trunk, right?
11:53:09 <Celestar> so I'll just dump the branch
11:53:48 <XeryusTC> Celestar: it seems that updating didn't fix the problem
11:54:09 <Celestar> XeryusTC: yeah, but I can now load the savegame apparently
11:55:04 <Celestar> XeryusTC: when is that game supposed to crash?
11:55:20 <XeryusTC> when the train starts loading cargo
11:55:28 <XeryusTC> after the cargo appears on the station that is
11:56:01 <Celestar> XeryusTC: I don't manage to crash it
11:56:09 <Celestar> what happened to the color of the patch window?!
11:56:23 <XeryusTC> it replaces mauve by black :P
11:56:44 <XeryusTC> it is meant to work on the CC only, but it also affects windows :P
11:57:21 <Celestar> XeryusTC: tell me something about the "crash" .. I don't get any crash
11:57:54 <peter1138> I had cargo not loading at all when using norouting.
11:57:54 <Celestar> Grenwich Heights, right?
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11:57:57 <XeryusTC> when the vehicle starts loading cargo i get the MSVS just-in-time debug window :P
11:58:08 <peter1138> Different compiler, see...
11:58:26 <Celestar> peter1138: are you 100% certain? Often enough, the cargo display of the station is not updated correctly
11:59:09 <Celestar> XeryusTC: interesting.
11:59:28 <XeryusTC> ah well, i cant load the game anymore with the update :o
11:59:34 <XeryusTC> but it still happens with new games etc
11:59:43 <Celestar> XeryusTC: update again
11:59:47 <Celestar> XeryusTC: then you can load
11:59:58 <XeryusTC> it doesn't happen when i change the patch setting to enable dests
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12:00:24 <Celestar> XeryusTC: then someone with MSVS needs to debug this. can't do anythingf
12:02:24 <XeryusTC> are there any other devs using MSVS?
12:02:43 <Celestar> peter1138: are you able to debug this "no loading" issue? I'm kinda busy :(
12:03:15 <XeryusTC> cargo_left[v->cargo_type].find(next_station)->second <= 0 <- I guess it fails on that (economy.cpp:1645)
12:04:50 <Celestar> glx: you got a minute or two?
12:05:50 <Celestar> Rubidium: are you already having a look at the code?
12:06:27 <Rubidium> not at this exact moment, will try to look at it later
12:06:48 <Celestar> Rubidium: don't forget to re-pull before that because I'm still trying to fix stuff (=
12:09:57 <Celestar> XeryusTC: any error messages?
12:10:15 <XeryusTC> Celestar: still the same
12:10:42 <Celestar> XeryusTC: it seems the no-loading problem is related
12:15:42 <Celestar> peter1138: found the reason
12:18:14 <Forked> oh oh oh.. can I test this when I get home from work?
12:19:43 <Celestar> Forked: what platform?
12:20:08 <glx> <Celestar> glx: you got a minute or two? <-- yes
12:20:17 <Celestar> glx: you're on MSVC right?
12:20:28 <Forked> win32 cuuurrently.. but tempted to go linux x64 again .. or at least 32bit on the laptop
12:21:42 <Celestar> glx: can you get the latest cargodest from arwen.fvfischer.de:8000 and try compiling (warnings?!) and check whether XeryusTC game crashes for you?
12:23:18 <Celestar> peter1138: have a fix
12:26:17 <Celestar> XeryusTC: can you apply that diff and see if the crash persists?
12:27:52 <XeryusTC> lets see what i can do
12:28:27 <Celestar> peter1138: perhaps the next_station evaluation belongs into the RoutingBase_t implementaitons
12:28:40 <glx> Celestar: is it possible to configure your server to send diff as text/plain so I can just open it in my browser?
12:29:15 <Celestar> it's a horribly complex httpd configuration :P
12:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause> damn... i can't drag&drop the invisible engine, because the mouse cursor gets invisible, too :p
12:30:45 <XeryusTC> Celestar: it's fixed
12:31:10 <peter1138> Grr, I'm missing syslog messages :o
12:31:11 <Celestar> XeryusTC: will finish that in a bit
12:31:21 * peter1138 ponders setting up another server.
12:31:32 <XeryusTC> i got a running game anyway
12:33:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
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13:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Cottbus%20Transport,%2021.%20Okt%201925.png
13:01:14 <Yorick> just a bit too much brown in the town
13:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that's better than the green of TTRS
13:02:54 <Yorick> half of the buildings are brown, tram tracks are brown, tracks are brown, trains are brown, industries are brown, some trees are brown, truckstops are brown
13:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. in the German RV set
13:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd view it more like an industrial narrow gauge rail
13:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> those were really not uncommon
13:05:30 <peter1138> I need to make a 'proper' narrow gauge GRF...
13:05:32 <Bjarni> industrial lines tend to be narrow gauge unless they want to exchange wagons with a real railroad
13:05:38 <peter1138> One that uses the unreleased spec... hehe
13:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the capacity of the "cargo trams" is just a bit too little
13:06:02 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: how did you get it to leave wagons on the sidings?
13:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: can it have doubletrack on one tile?
13:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> then it's bad :p
13:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: it's an invisible engine
13:07:03 <Gekz> peter1138: unreleased spec?
13:07:20 <peter1138> Unobtainable too, at the moment. It's on our wiki.
13:08:48 <Gekz> why is it in a state of chronic fail?
13:09:03 <peter1138> We did it to tease you.
13:09:16 <Rubidium> because we can't reach anybody that can reach the server
13:09:23 <glx> the server itself is running
13:11:54 <Yorick> because MiHaMiX is currently unreachable
13:11:54 <Belugas> I salute thou too, Sir Peter :D
13:12:15 <XeryusTC> hmm, the cargo dests crashed on me again, on the same line O_o
13:12:20 <Rubidium> Yorick: that happens when your ISP fails to connect you
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13:55:10 <Brianetta> Eddi: Do you live in Cottbus?
13:57:10 <Belugas> NIce reply on the war thread, Brianetta
13:59:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the name of the city where i started...
14:03:13 <Brianetta> Just that I know somebody there
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14:05:50 <Celestar> XeryusTC: peter1138: glx fix ok?
14:06:02 <XeryusTC> Celestar: i managed to crash it again
14:06:10 <Celestar> XeryusTC: related or unrelated?
14:06:47 <XeryusTC> now it was with a cargo that does has destinations though
14:08:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: having my company name automatically assigned to the city makes the games better memorizable when i look at them after a while ;)
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14:10:35 <Celestar> XeryusTC: I'll check that in a minute or two
14:11:22 <XeryusTC> oh, seems i turned improved loading off in it :P
14:11:32 <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause: That's cool. I tend to come up with different names for my company for the same reason.
14:11:38 <XeryusTC> or i've overwriten it in the mean time :o
14:11:45 <Brianetta> "One Track Mind" was a good game.
14:11:49 <Brianetta> I've lost it now, though
14:13:31 <Celestar> why are there two celestars?
14:14:18 <XeryusTC> Celestar: that was the wrong save, i guess i've overwritten the autosave by now :o
14:15:17 <XeryusTC> but this time it was the exact same thing, except that it was with a cargo that does have destinations
14:15:37 <XeryusTC> it might've crashed because a train stopped at a station that it wasn't sheduled to stop at
14:16:32 <Celestar> XeryusTC: you have a weird implementation of std::map
14:17:21 <XeryusTC> hmm, that must be msvs' fault then :P
14:17:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i think decreasing the transfer credit by 30% helped in making the trams profitable
14:18:09 <XeryusTC> hmm, crashed indeed :o
14:18:17 <Celestar> XeryusTC: can you paste me the exact error message?
14:19:03 <XeryusTC> the just-in-time debugger window just says i get an unhandled win32 exception
14:19:25 <XeryusTC> "An unhandled win32 exception occured in openttd.exe [3800]" is what it says
14:19:54 <glx> XeryusTC: easy to reproduce?
14:20:16 <Celestar> glx: might I ask you to have a look at this?
14:20:49 <glx> if it's reproducable I can (try to) debug
14:21:06 <XeryusTC> happens around Dec 20th
14:22:34 <XeryusTC> it malfunctions with these orders anyway, it keeps unloading passengers into that station when comming from Sunstoke Common and picks it up when comming from the other side just to do the same
14:26:10 <XeryusTC> i use #openttdcoop's grf package, from trunk ;)
14:26:23 <XeryusTC> although 7.2 will most likely be the same
14:26:54 <ln> 17:21 <@Sharlin> "The first century starts at 0001-01-01 00:00:00 AD, although they did not know it at the time. This definition applies to all Gregorian calendar countries. There is no century number 0, you go from -1 to 1. If you disagree with this, please write your complaint to: Pope, Cathedral Saint-Peter of Roma, Vatican."
14:27:53 <Celestar> XeryusTC: non-scheduled stops are NOT working
14:28:15 <XeryusTC> i've noticed that yes :P
14:31:23 <SpComb> hmm... it's been a while since I worked further on the NewGRF download thing
14:31:36 <SpComb> OpenTTD's network code is just a bit too silly
14:32:16 <SpComb> perhaps I should just split the lines of code that modify the global variables into another function, cross my fingers, and hope for the best
14:32:50 <Ammler> silly XeryusTC, using trunk :P
14:32:51 <Belugas> hoo...and you can, of course, bring a brand new shiny version that is all but silly?
14:32:53 <SpComb> how do you create a new TCP connection that uses OpenTTD's select loop, but isn't a connection to a full-blown OpenTTD server, and isn't supposed to be used for joining a game?
14:33:06 <XeryusTC> glx: the only thing you could be missing should be the dutch signals
14:33:14 <XeryusTC> and dutch statons maybe
14:33:37 <Yorick> SpComb: the network lobby uses tcp...
14:33:55 <glx> ukrsi bricks 1.32 is disabled
14:34:10 <SpComb> NetworkConnect flips all kinds of "_network_join_status" bits and calls "ShowJoinStatusWindow"
14:34:13 <SpComb> which is not what I want to do
14:34:17 <Ammler> shouldn't they load with compatible mode?
14:34:42 <XeryusTC> the dutch trams have been made incompatible with older versions
14:35:35 <SpComb> and then I'm not sure what kinds of side-effects the "NetworkAllocClient" call has, but I do know that the socket must be in there to be polled in the select loop
14:35:46 <Ammler> oh, then we should add the older one to the obsolete branch
14:35:56 <peter1138> Those are for *game* clients, obviously.
14:35:59 <SpComb> it's really, really difficult to figure out what kinds of side-effects functions like NetworkConnect have
14:36:01 <peter1138> Modify the select loop.
14:36:07 <XeryusTC> hmm, i might've the transpengw downloaded seperately from the pack
14:36:35 <XeryusTC> indeed i have, along with the rusty sidings
14:36:43 <Belugas> SpComb, so basically, anything you do not understand it silly... right...
14:37:12 <SpComb> Belugas: mostly just that it's hard to understand what a function does, because it modifies all kinds of global variables, and those kinds of things aren't very well documented
14:37:23 <SpComb> but I guess that's just how it tends to be
14:37:44 <Yorick> SpComb: the network lobby uses tcp...
14:38:41 <Celestar> glx: do you get any crashes?
14:39:02 <glx> hmm it sill uses a compatible one for dutch station
14:39:39 <glx> Celestar: I may get crashes due to missing grfs ;)
14:41:33 <XeryusTC> but apparently it's because Celestar didn't implement non sheduled stops yet
14:41:59 <glx> _DEBUG_ERROR("map/set iterator not dereferencable");
14:42:31 <glx> ,...,...,...if (_settings_game.order.improved_load && cargo_left[v->cargo_type].find(next_station)->second <= 0) {
14:42:50 <glx> find() probably returned end()
14:43:48 <Celestar> what is "next_station" set to?
14:43:55 <glx> +,...,...cargo_left,...[32]([2]((6,101),(8,23)),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0](),[0]()),...std::vector<std::map<unsigned short,int,std::less<unsigned short>,std::allocator<std::pair<unsigned short const ,int> > >,std::allocator<std::map<unsigned short,int,std::less<unsigned short>,std::allocator<s
14:44:16 <peter1138> That just means there is no cargo there yet, no?
14:44:33 <Celestar> XeryusTC: non scheduled stops won't be implemented in the first iteration
14:44:39 <Celestar> peter1138: no, we're at some other place
14:45:28 <Celestar> glx: what is it that I am seeing?
14:45:37 <Celestar> glx: your output I mean
14:46:15 <Celestar> ((6,101),(8,23)) <= that's the map, right?
14:47:05 <glx> hmm no 2 values for type 0
14:47:29 <Celestar> 101 passengers to station 6 and 23 passengers to station 8
14:47:48 <glx> none for station 3 so end() and crash
14:48:08 <Celestar> the linux stl doesn't crash on that one
14:50:15 <peter1138> find() is relatively expensive.
14:50:24 <Celestar> peter1138: I trust the compiler
14:50:52 <peter1138> foo = cargo_left[v->cargo_type.find(next_station); if (foo != cargo_left[v->cargo_type].end() && foo->second <= 0) ...
14:51:12 <peter1138> Trust the compiler... hehe...
14:51:26 <Celestar> peter1138: let's first find out if it helps (=
14:52:04 <Celestar> but not in the line before?
14:52:08 <Celestar> glx: let me write a proper fix
14:52:30 <glx> like "cache" the value somewhere ;)
14:53:11 <glx> as it may fail on line 1679 too :)
14:56:04 <glx> iterators can be nasty ;)
14:56:43 <Celestar> only if you deference a faulty one
14:57:30 <glx> and indeed gcc doesn't crash
14:58:09 <Celestar> peter1138: end()->second is not wrong by default, it's just UB afaik
14:58:10 <glx> but I'd say MSVC is right
15:00:49 <Celestar> the newer MS compilers aren't really bad
15:01:40 <glx> Celestar: I'd use a bool to store _settings_game.order.improved_load && cargo_left_pos != cargo_left[v->cargo_type].end()
15:01:53 <Celestar> glx: the purpose being?
15:02:56 <Ammler> src/network/network_chat_gui.cpp:227: void NetworkDrawChatMessage(): Assertion `blitter->BufferSize(width, height) < (int)(_chatmsg_box.width * _chatmsg_box.height * sizeof(uint32))' failed.
15:03:10 <Celestar> Ammler: it wasn't me :P
15:03:33 <glx> Ammler: or don't use 32bpp-anim
15:03:48 <Ammler> glx: used -b 32bpp-optimized
15:04:33 <Ammler> do you have the rev in mind?
15:05:08 <DorpsGek> Bjarni: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
15:05:22 <Ammler> hmm, now svn also down?
15:05:58 <Bjarni> looks like it's the bot that's broken
15:08:13 <Celestar> glx: peter1138: reload the diff. That's better isn't it?
15:08:53 <Ammler> glx: shouldn't I be able with dos grfs and blitter on to join a wingrf server?
15:08:59 <Ammler> without the glitches...
15:14:16 <Celestar> glx: I'm committing this, k?
15:14:58 <prakti> The Wiki is down,.. how come?
15:15:29 <Yorick> prakti: the hungarian server deamon died
15:16:30 <Celestar> XeryusTC: pull and try again
15:17:00 <XeryusTC> pull doesn't remember the other url :o
15:17:27 <Celestar> XeryusTC: nope, only the first one
15:17:30 <Celestar> arwen.fvfischer.de:8000
15:18:18 <glx> XeryusTC: fix it in .hg/hgrc
15:26:25 <Celestar> XeryusTC: I'm doing some preliminary fixing of intermediate stations, so that the whole system doesn't just fail when a train arrives at a wrong place
15:32:59 <Celestar> peter1138: did you have a patch for the destination display in the total cargo view?
15:33:34 <Celestar> XeryusTC: please pull again ;)
15:34:34 <Celestar> peter1138: pity, I'd come handy (=
15:37:47 <fmauNeko> can I change a newgrf paremeter via rcon or server console ?
15:38:41 <Rubidium> will it ever be implemented?
15:39:09 <XeryusTC> Celestar: jup, i'm missing that too :(
15:39:25 <Ammler> fmauNeko: you can change them local and reload the save, that's how we do it...
15:39:51 <fmauNeko> Ammler: that's how I was going to do the trick :p
15:39:51 <glx> please not that it may cause problems
15:40:36 <Celestar> XeryusTC: it will happen
15:41:02 <Celestar> XeryusTC: I'm just lazy and waiting for peter to do it :P
15:41:07 <glx> fmauNeko: so don't report bugs if you used this trick ;)
15:42:18 <Celestar> hehe peter1138, the Transfer credit stuff is working perfectly.
15:43:13 <XeryusTC> hmm, time to compile and playtest a bit again
15:43:33 <Celestar> peter1138: only the cargopackets with the transfer credits are no longer on the vehicle :P
15:44:35 <Celestar> peter1138: hence v->cargo.FeederShare() is returns zero after the stuff has been unloaded. I kind of fail to see the point of that figure in the GUI :P
15:46:23 <peter1138> It has worked previously...
15:46:37 <XeryusTC> ottd sure takes a long time to compile
15:46:46 <XeryusTC> almost 3 mins for a change to a few lines :o
15:47:07 <peter1138> Takes about 15 seconds.
15:47:13 <peter1138> Maybe you need a faster PC ;)
15:47:28 <Celestar> peter1138: yeah. I'm investigating
15:47:42 <XeryusTC> i guess it's MSVS code generation thingy :P
15:47:46 * Belugas remembers the "happy days" when he was working on widgets/windows. Now TAHT was ,long, alomost fur recompile evry time
15:48:01 * Celestar hands Belugas a new keyboard
15:48:16 <XeryusTC> i like fur recompiles
15:48:28 * Yorick hands the whale a dictionary
15:48:43 <Belugas> no... just some herbal tea, as i'm pretty high on coffeine as we speak...
15:49:52 * Yorick hands the whale some herbal tea
15:52:29 <Celestar> peter1138: interesting
15:54:01 * Belugas is not a whale. It's a dolphin :P
15:54:19 <Belugas> a whale is a mysticete, whyle dolphins are odontocetes
16:01:25 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
16:03:19 <Digitalfox> What is the version of Flyspray in bugs.openttd.org? I know it's aheaviliy modified one, but notheless what's the version used?
16:03:25 <Digitalfox> Well hello Belugas :)
16:03:50 <Digitalfox> Belugas work @ work?
16:04:32 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: it's not that modified
16:04:55 <Belugas> yes, still at work. for another 5 hours
16:06:04 <XeryusTC> Celestar: it seems to be working properly btw
16:06:09 <Digitalfox> Rubidium thank you.. Well the old Flyspray used in bugs.openttd.org was, before this last update :)
16:06:58 <XeryusTC> dunno of the cargo handling is still proper though :P
16:09:36 <XeryusTC> it did some odd things with unloading before :P
16:09:57 <Celestar> yeah, but it doesn't now
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16:32:18 <Celestar> peter1138: I don't get it. not at all
16:32:49 <peter1138> Does it work in trunk? :)
16:33:02 <Celestar> didn't really try :P
16:37:35 <Celestar> SetDParam(0, v->cargo.FeederShare());
16:37:41 <Celestar> "v" is the engine of the train
16:37:48 <Celestar> which (normally) doesn't have any cargo
16:37:56 <peter1138> Oh... so it never worked :D
16:38:02 <peter1138> Only for RVs and ships...
16:38:24 <peter1138> Sorry for wasting your afternoon ;)
16:39:02 <Celestar> peter1138: fix in trunk or locally?
16:41:21 *** Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo
16:42:34 <peter1138> I think it's more extensive.
16:42:48 <peter1138> Articulated road vehicles.
16:42:59 <Celestar> yeah...this is the train version
16:43:10 <Celestar> why do we have so much code duplication in the GUI :S
16:43:25 <peter1138> They're all slightly different :o
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16:48:32 <Yorick> ooh, Celestar is playing ping-pong
16:49:38 <Celestar> peter1138: are you going home or are you still pondering
16:50:46 <Celestar> I'm off for the rest of the day prolly
16:51:07 <Celestar> peter1138: I'll be tackling the cargo view display tomorrow unless you insist on doing it (=
16:51:44 <Belugas> looks fine for me, Celestar
16:51:54 <Celestar> Belugas: ok going for it
16:51:55 <Belugas> although maybe Rubidium might find stuff i did not
16:52:22 <Belugas> baaa... reverts are always possible :D
16:52:47 <Celestar> my first commit-to-trunk in ages :P
16:52:53 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: celestar * r14098 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_gui.cpp roadveh_gui.cpp train_gui.cpp): -Fix: Make the 'Transfer Credit' display aware of the entire consist, not only the first vehicle
16:53:03 * Yorick congratulates Celestar
16:55:30 <Belugas> maybe it's time to remove your inactive status ^_^
16:59:26 <Yorick> the revival of Celestar :)
17:00:35 <Bjarni> if he is no longer dead, wouldn't it make him undead?
17:01:06 <Kloopy> He's either an undead or he's Jesus.
17:01:37 <Bjarni> last time I checked Jesus didn't know German
17:02:15 <Yorick> is that an imaginary object?
17:03:03 <Prof_Frink> Yorick: Some bloke who was around about the same time as Brian.
17:03:09 <fjb> How does the pope talk to Jesus?
17:03:24 <Yorick> he talks to his imaginary jesus
17:03:35 <Yorick> and pretends it responds
17:07:40 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14099 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp:
17:07:40 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Welcome back, Celestar.
17:07:40 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: While at it, an alphabetic error been fixed
17:07:51 <Celestar> fjb: no he doesn't. He speaks bavarian
17:08:08 <Celestar> Belugas: no offense, you forgot the readme.txt (=
17:09:04 <Celestar> peter1138: you @ home already?
17:11:04 <Celestar> peter1138: the total cargo view, how do we detail the display? Destination or Origin/Destination ?
17:11:26 <Celestar> or Origin | Destination
17:11:26 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14100 /trunk/readme.txt: -Fix(r14099): Who reads readme.txt files anyway?. Same work as previous commit.
17:11:31 <peter1138> Or same options as station view?
17:11:46 <peter1138> I'd like to reuse some of that if possible. Should be, it's classes...
17:12:05 <Celestar> I quite agree, but I think "Nexthop" might be irrelevant
17:12:39 <Celestar> we should be able to reuse the stuff anyway
17:13:50 <Celestar> peter1138: then I'll leave it to you, you've done the station gui stuff and know it better
17:14:15 <peter1138> Crap, I ran out of chicken :(
17:15:21 <Belugas> lol... i read " i ran out of children"
17:15:54 <Celestar> "childrens" *shudder*
17:15:56 <Wolf01> ehm... we eat children
17:16:21 <hylje> groups of children, ergo childrens
17:16:39 <hylje> so it must eat them more than one at a time
17:16:46 <Celestar> and a groups of groups of children and childrenss ?
17:17:08 <Wolf01> last time i ate red cape or what's called she in english
17:19:58 <Celestar> peter1138: you mean to move all the stuff out of the station view window class and into something own?
17:21:19 <peter1138> Yes, like the sign list is.
17:21:39 <Celestar> if (b >= lastof(string) - (1 + 2 * 4)) <= what about writing '9' ?
17:22:29 <Rubidium> probably because 2 utf8 encoded characters + the '\0' is beter guessable from that than from 9
17:22:51 <Celestar> well neither helped me :D
17:23:01 <peter1138> That should be a comment really :)
17:24:07 <Celestar> // ',' or ' ' and two calls to Utf8Encode()
17:24:15 <Celestar> which didn't help me a lot
17:26:29 <peter1138> How simple would it be to turn _network_client_info and _clients into std::vector/SmallVector?
17:27:00 * Rubidium was pondering using a pool
17:27:18 <peter1138> And: do _clients and _network_client_info actually need to be split?
17:27:28 <Celestar> Rubidium: why not std::vector ?
17:27:33 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:30:33 <Ammler> Rubidium: you said, the nightlies are done, somewhere else, can we grap them there?
17:31:00 <Belugas> svn co + compile youir own ^_^
17:31:35 <Ammler> Belugas: I have no idea how to compile :P
17:32:21 <Belugas> and it's unfortunate that the wiki is down :(
17:33:41 <Ammler> we should update to newer nightly tonight, to get rid of the desyncs...
17:34:03 <Celestar> have the desyncs been fixed?
17:34:22 <Ammler> didn't frosch tell that?
17:34:37 <Belugas> hehe for once, the "we" includes the talker
17:35:13 <Yorick> what commit should they have been fixed?
17:35:15 <peter1138> There've been no desync related commits.
17:35:33 <Yorick> except for the new autoreplace
17:35:48 <peter1138> That was a while ago.
17:36:37 <peter1138> Oh, probably cause for the desyncs with DOS graphics: GRFs checking for DOS vs Windows and then disabling themselves.
17:36:53 <peter1138> Oh, that was ages ago.
17:37:14 <Ammler> that is after our current ps rev :-)
17:37:26 <Celestar> Belugas: not really.
17:37:40 <Celestar> but we ended up in the middle, which is a success
17:38:03 * Belugas congrats Celestar and his partner :)
17:39:36 <peter1138> -y+eIt can be extended. It would just need an additional button, that's all."
17:39:47 <peter1138> Hmm, silly paste :o
17:40:44 <Belugas> the post was even sillier :)
17:41:10 <peter1138> Well I meant to paste it, but without the -y+e at the beginning...
18:00:13 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
18:08:44 *** Amixbook has joined #openttd
18:08:47 <Yorick> click click click click click click
18:12:14 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
18:12:49 *** Sacro is now known as snaffles
18:14:45 *** snaffles is now known as Sacro
18:15:22 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
18:22:54 <oh> were the osx/leopard nightly build issues fixed?
18:23:20 <Prof_Frink> oh: The nightly server's broken.
18:23:21 <oh> vague question I know, @work right now ;>
18:23:24 <Yorick> oh: thewhole nightly archive is down
18:23:38 <Yorick> oh: are you the oh I knoh?
18:23:51 <oh> if you haven't seen me in a while, then yes ;p
18:25:00 <Yorick> oh, trust me, I haven't
18:26:36 <Yorick> [20:26] <Prof_Frink> oh, really? <-- "yes, really"
18:26:39 <Prof_Frink> (sorry, too good to pass up)
18:32:22 <Sacro> valhallasw: my god, you live
18:32:45 <FR^2> Hmm. Is there a way to disable airplains and helicopters?
18:34:08 <Yorick> FR^2: not that I knoh of
18:35:01 <FR^2> I mean I can reduce the number of airplanes to zero, but that won't stop the AI to build airplanes ;)
18:36:52 <Yorick> FR^2: you can stop the ai building airplanes
18:37:52 <FR^2> Yorick: Yes, sorry, my sentence was wrong... Silly me. I meant to say: I mean I can reduce the number of airplanes to zero, but that won't stop the AI to build airPORTS ;)
18:38:15 <Tim> There is a whole patch-tab called AI or so
18:38:30 <Tim> there you can disable trains / planes etc
18:38:58 <FR^2> Something like "deactivate airplanes for the computer", but that won't stop it to build airports.
18:39:37 <FR^2> Is there anywhere a mirror where I can get a newer nightly? The servers still seem to be down.
18:40:57 <peter1138> Uh, that option will stop the AI building airports...
18:42:05 <Yorick> FR^2: r11527 is very old
18:42:26 <FR^2> Yorick: I know, therefore I thought maybe that's bug that was fixed long ago ;)
18:42:41 <FR^2> For linux / i686 i should have said.
18:43:25 <FR^2> Are the sources in that win32 archive as well?
18:43:37 <Yorick> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
18:43:53 <FR^2> Ah, subversion is still available? Great! Thanks.
18:44:08 <Sacro> Bjarni: thought it'd raise a smile
18:44:24 <Bjarni> that gotta hurt though
18:44:42 <Bjarni> I was scared that you imagined it would represent my driving skills or something
18:46:26 <Bjarni> I never had a derailing accident :D
18:55:34 <valhallasw> Sacro: yes, it seems. semi. and not often
19:17:26 <FR^2> Ammler: Thanks, just built it from the subversion trunk
19:18:53 <Ammler> yeah, read it after :-)
19:21:27 <eax> Hi :) In my OpenTTD game a planecrash just occured. Does the plane remove it self or what do I have to do?
19:21:36 <eax> I tried googling it with no solution
19:21:43 <planetmaker> it will go after some time
19:21:55 <eax> Thanks :) But what about the other planes?
19:22:03 <planetmaker> they've to wait till then
19:22:15 <Ammler> it takes around a month
19:22:17 <planetmaker> before that runway may be used
19:22:20 <|Jeroen|> you could always divert them :-)
19:22:28 <eax> Okay, thanks a lot everyone :D
19:23:25 * planetmaker wonders how many downloads does a stable release usually get?
19:24:28 <peter1138> Removed my small airport to replace it with a large airport... and it won't let me... and there's no small airport to put back :(
19:25:09 <planetmaker> You need clearly the build airport over other airport patch :P
19:25:33 <planetmaker> ... and close airport in order to get it free of planes :P
19:25:36 <peter1138> It's all Belugas' fault!
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19:30:36 <Kloopy> planetmaker: Is the close airport patch in trunk now?
19:31:22 <Kloopy> I didn't think so, just you spoke about it as if it was. :)
19:31:27 <planetmaker> well. sure or not, it simply isn't :)
19:31:52 <planetmaker> eh, no. It was meant as an unqualified hint ;)
19:32:47 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
19:37:07 <peter1138> Crap, I need to expand my stations again :(
19:42:13 <peter1138> Hmm, railtypes is 70KB :o
19:42:50 * Yorick encourages make it smaller by commit
19:44:00 <peter1138> I could, but it's not finished at all.
19:44:09 <peter1138> But there are certainly bits I could use.
19:47:54 <Yorick> would cargodest be compatible with infrastructure sharing?
19:48:35 <Belugas> two different features , isn't it?
19:49:20 <peter1138> No owners are involved with the cargo routing, so it should be fine.
19:50:11 <peter1138> Hmm, right, I need to revert some of my changes for stations. It was wrong :o
19:58:49 *** Phantasm has joined #openttd
20:05:19 <planetmaker> infrastructure sharing doesn't like yapp for me...
20:05:49 <Yorick> why do new vehicle windows have a viewport?
20:06:03 <planetmaker> so that you can order them
20:06:39 <Yorick> the new vehicle introduced windows
20:09:27 <Yorick> planetmaker: I can't order/refit/start vehicles I have not built yet
20:10:13 <planetmaker> nice and flashy :)
20:12:25 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
20:12:49 <peter1138> Cos trunk works fine for me.
20:12:54 <Yorick> peter1138, no, it is r14100
20:13:54 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
20:14:23 <Yorick> hmm, it actually crashed
20:15:42 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
20:17:02 *** Progman has joined #openttd
20:18:07 *** Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai
20:18:33 <Yorick> Bjarni: why does it look hacked/photoshopped?
20:18:47 *** Swallow has joined #openttd
20:20:02 <Yorick> the "ff" is because I just closed the patches window and something overflowed there
20:20:25 <Bjarni> I meant the message window full of water
20:20:52 <Yorick> I'll try reproducing it with clean trunk
20:20:59 <Yorick> I suspect it has to do with enginepool
20:21:59 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
20:23:16 <Yorick> would infrastructure sharing affect the news?
20:25:33 <peter1138> Yorick, have you ever considered becoming a paid beta-tester?
20:26:27 <Eddi|zuHause> somebody stole my internets!
20:27:44 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: luckily I have one
20:27:56 <Bjarni> I might share it with you if you are nice enough
20:28:23 <Yorick> planetmaker: forget NS_OPENCLOSE with isr ;)
20:29:19 <planetmaker> eh? well, I know that change.
20:29:39 <planetmaker> actually... I just found in the IS thread that someone did the work to bring it to current trunk :P
21:13:42 <Sacro> Why isn't 0.6.2 in Ubuntu :(
21:14:58 <Rubidium> because ubuntu people as slow
21:15:04 <Rubidium> though gentoo people are even slower
21:15:22 <Sacro> Arch has it updated within hours
21:19:01 <Rubidium> gentoo people 'have' to use 0.5.2 as that's the latest one for them
21:19:14 <Sacro> how can i ssh tunnel openttd?
21:19:24 <Sacro> cos it takes aaaaaaaaages to download server games :(
21:19:31 <Sacro> i wonder how i can debug it
21:19:38 <Sacro> cos websites and suchlike are whizzy
21:29:29 <Eddi|zuHause> <Yorick> would cargodest be compatible with infrastructure sharing? <- yes, but the owner of the last vehicle will get all the transfer money, i'm afraid
21:31:30 <fjb> Sacro: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979.
21:33:34 <fjb> The orders list needs a kind of look ahead.
21:37:19 *** welshdragon2 is now known as welshdragon
21:41:38 *** Rexxars has joined #openttd
21:44:35 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14101 /trunk/src/cargopacket.h: -Cleanup (r14083): leftover friend.
21:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> who needs friends anyway :p
22:11:02 <peter1138> Bjarni's bad coding ;)
22:20:08 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:22:28 <flaske> anyone here know the save load infrastructure well?
22:26:16 <Bjarni> if I want to make friends then I make friends
22:26:18 * dih slaps Bjarni with his own code
22:30:39 * ln slaps dih with the Active Object pattern
22:35:16 <Bjarni> The game is unable to display all the needed characters in the selected language. You need to enable freetype at compiletime to correct this. <-- I just added this message if somebody ends up with the ???? problem and the game is built without freetype. Do you think it's good enough?
22:35:24 <Bjarni> or can you think of something better?
22:41:17 <Sacro> I can't find Dragons World for the BBC
22:41:18 <Bjarni> at least Prof_Frink is able to figure out if it's proper English
22:41:40 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: maybe you can answer my question then ;)
22:41:56 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: hammer time
22:42:14 <ln> Sacro: why not compile-time
22:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: but you have to make sure the message is not translated :p
22:42:33 <Sacro> but the hyphen isn't really needed
22:42:33 <Prof_Frink> temps d'compilation.
22:42:35 <Bjarni> why do I have the feeling that you aren't really taking this seriously?
22:42:46 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: because it's Sacro?
22:43:05 <ln> Sacro: hmm, yeah, now that i looked at the context, writing them separately looks better.
22:43:24 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: I already ensured that part. It's not part of english.txt but instead the string is hardcoded in the source
22:44:07 <Bjarni> but... I'm not really happy with this message. Can you think of something better?
22:44:27 <ln> Bjarni: I think your sentence has a more serious flaw, it says something that you didn't intend.
22:45:26 <ln> Sacro: what do thou say about the word "all" in that sentence?
22:46:48 <Bjarni> instead of fighting over one word, wouldn't it be better to figure out the structure in how to say it and then finetune if a word should be there or not? :)
22:47:52 <ln> Sacro: especially, what do thou say about all vs. some?
22:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't you learn _anything_ here? you first finetune everything, and then you throw it away and rewrite it comletely
22:51:50 <Bjarni> I guess it was a mistake to ask you guys :/
22:52:27 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: You knew that before you aked it.
22:52:32 <Sacro> OpenTTD is unable to display the necessary languages in the current language.
22:52:44 <Sacro> Please recompile enabling freetype.
22:52:50 <Prof_Frink> "OpenTTD is penis penis penis."
22:52:54 <Sacro> Please enable freetype and compile"
22:52:57 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
22:55:12 * Bjarni stops reading this channel
22:55:29 <Sacro> Bjarni is unable to read this channel
22:55:36 <Sacro> Please replace the handset and try again...
22:56:12 <ln> "The game is unabled to display ur chars. Plz recompiel ur game w/freetype."
22:56:45 * Sacro converts OpenTTD to lolspeak
22:59:24 <Sacro> ln: if i do the conversion...
23:00:08 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: I tried that wordmasher thingy in the 'sletter on ICHC.
23:00:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
23:01:12 <Bjarni> you guys just reminded me of a survey I read about
23:01:23 <Bjarni> it was about as serious as your talk
23:01:35 <Bjarni> "if you were a dinosaur, which one would it be?"
23:01:58 <Prof_Frink> Stegosaurus by a country mile.
23:04:46 <Bjarni> SpComb: warning: it seems that this channel is even more stupid than usual
23:05:15 <Sacro> is usual more stupid than me?
23:07:39 <ln> Bjarni: if stupidity is described by a complex number where the real plane is usual stupidity and the imaginary plane is sacroness, then what is the current square root?
23:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: how about: "Openttd is unable to display this language, you need to recompile with freetype support."
23:08:19 <Sacro> OpenTTD was not compiled with freetype support and is thus unable to display this language"
23:08:37 <SpComb> Bjarni: find a given user $nick, such that removing them from the channel will increase the average measured stupidity
23:09:05 <Sacro> was gonna say... increase?
23:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the sentence should not be too long and complicated, especially since the "target audience" might not be that well versed in english
23:09:32 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: ".. to display some characters of this language..." would be more accurate.
23:10:38 <ln> because for something like polish it may be that >50% characters can be shown using the good old sprites.
23:10:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but does it need that level of accuracy?
23:11:37 <ln> why shouldn't the sentence be translatable?
23:11:52 <Sacro> ln: well how would you show it in russian?
23:12:01 <Eddi|zuHause> ln: it wouldn't make a lot of sense if the sentence could not be displayed :p
23:12:02 <Sacro> ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ????/
23:12:12 <Bjarni> Sacro: you made a typo
23:12:19 <ln> Sacro: the usual way, by printing it.
23:12:40 <Sacro> what use is sending a message saying you cannot display cyrillic, in cyrillic
23:12:59 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: the fact that it can't be shown by OTTD, doesn't mean it can't be shown some other way.
23:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and you want to rely on some environment to be able to display UTF-8 strings?
23:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not getting better :p
23:15:02 *** lobster_MB has joined #openttd
23:15:40 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: the message can be distributed as bitmaps for different languages.
23:17:10 <Bjarni> OpenTTD was not compiled with freetype support and is thus unable to display this language correctly. Recompile with freetype enabled to correct this issue. <-- now it looks better
23:18:12 <Bjarni> ln: right now it's English only. This is how it works in the trunk and I didn't plan on getting my patch to fix this
23:18:18 <Bjarni> since the goal is something else
23:39:43 <ln> Bjarni: what's the number of your iPhone?
continue to next day ⏵
