IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-08-19
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00:07:03 <Bjarni> in fact I don't own a mobile phone
00:07:40 <ln> how can you live without one?
00:07:54 <Bjarni> I find that rather easy
00:08:19 <ln> how do your friends contact you?
00:09:53 <ln> and when you are not at home?
00:11:18 <Bjarni> then they have to call some other time
00:12:21 <Bjarni> if it ain't broke, don't fix it
00:12:35 <ln> even if Steve tells you to?
00:14:06 <Bjarni> I will tell you this: there is no way that I will buy an iPhone with the prices that Telia have in Denmark
00:14:34 <Bjarni> people in Sweden complained about the high prices and Telia looked at it and instead of lowering the price, they changed it to flatrate
00:14:50 <Bjarni> they still keep the same price in Denmark, but they also want money for traffic
00:15:03 <ln> buy one from another country and unlock it.
00:15:28 <Bjarni> I don't get what's so great about iPhone
00:15:40 <Bjarni> a phone is made for talking
00:15:49 <ln> me neither, and i'm not going to buy one.
00:16:16 <Bjarni> if I wanted a computer to go, I would like something a bit more powerful
00:16:57 <Bjarni> Nokia s770 and s800 (or whatever the names are) are valid candidates for a small computer to go
00:17:15 <Bjarni> since the display is big enough for real software
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00:33:42 <FauxFaux> Gah, lost trains ignoring pre-signals is so irritating.
00:33:59 <bleepy> yet strangely fun at the same time
00:34:42 <FauxFaux> Suprise autoreplace 15 years after I built a depot, and the entire network deadlocks as a train gets stuck.
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01:41:14 <DorpsGek> DaleStan: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 3 hours, 33 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> And Fuco, nice talking to you too :) (as in, it is not the first time I talk to Bjarni and Eddi|zuHause about random offtopic stuff :p)
01:41:57 <Fuco> ye, i remember that conversation
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06:20:35 <peter1138> Wrong window of course.
06:20:48 * Celestar looks what's on his cargodest-todo
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06:22:49 <Celestar> peter1138: you got anything to pull?
06:23:12 <peter1138> Well, not that I know of... you can try.
06:25:11 * peter1138 wonders where to put the combined gui-code...
06:26:00 <Celestar> peter1138: into the routing classes? or make a new class (and a new file maybe)
06:26:26 <Celestar> Rubidium: how did you obtain the diff between cargodest and trunk?
06:26:35 <peter1138> hg diff -r <last trunk merge>
06:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause> way too early... :(
06:32:23 <Celestar> no one's seen that tim (=
06:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> for everything obviously...
06:34:18 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I quite agree. I stared at Tim's statement for a minute and didn't understand what was going on :P
06:35:51 <Tim> Well, atleast i only use that one about 3 times in the Internet, so not too much changing ;)
06:37:48 <Celestar> Tim: there's a reason why my IRC password is the only one I use nowhere else
06:39:06 <Celestar> peter1138: what options have we to put the combined GUI-code?
06:39:08 <Eddi|zuHause> there are clients that can run any outgoing message through a regexp replacement
06:39:11 <Tim> oki-doki, everything changed ;)
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06:41:15 <Celestar> peter1138: I don't manage that diff :P
06:41:28 * Celestar goes reviewing his own code
06:48:53 <Celestar> I know it my heart meanwhile
06:56:20 <Celestar> what about the down server?
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07:17:54 <Celestar> peter1138: wiki, translator etc
07:21:47 <peter1138> translator is fine ;)
07:22:11 <DorpsGek> peter1138: mihamix was last seen in #openttd 31 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, and 33 seconds ago: <MiHaMiX> s/t$/d/
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08:07:49 <peter1138> Rubidium, "Why not in the for (;; <HERE>) ?"
08:08:07 <peter1138> Rubidium, because we've got an "it = packets.erase(it);" inside the loop.
08:08:45 <peter1138> Could do with a comment as to why though...
08:13:10 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm going to remove the station name output, k?
08:15:27 <Celestar> unless you wait it to remain :P
08:17:10 <peter1138> Have you done any of the tidy ups, or shall I have a bash?
08:18:49 <Celestar> give me 10 minutes and I'll push them
08:18:58 <Celestar> Rubidium: char == byte (=
08:19:17 <peter1138> Yes, but we use char only for characters.
08:19:37 <peter1138> We should use int8 or uint8 for numeric variables.
08:20:10 <peter1138> byte for 'raw data'
08:20:49 <peter1138> Also, { return; } -> { }
08:21:40 <peter1138> For coding style, we should use char for characters, byte for some kind of raw data, and int8 or uint8 for numerics.
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08:24:14 <Celestar> Rubidium: >>> Maybe make buoys act like waypoints? But doesn't it implictly get a non-stopping order? <= false. One of the main problem with many other paxdest patches
08:26:30 <Celestar> A Buoy is a station and a Buoy-order is handled exactly like a station order
08:29:01 <Rubidium> so... make buoys really work like waypoints instead of stations
08:30:11 <Celestar> that's not part of cargodest (=
08:30:21 <Celestar> peter1138: push complete
08:30:39 <Celestar> and Rubidium: a std::vector is not slower than an an array
08:31:32 <Rubidium> Celestar: so? fix the buoy stuff and clean up the buoy handling in trunk, like peter1138 often does when implementing patches.
08:32:20 <Celestar> might do so at some point
08:32:38 <Celestar> I've already had about a dozen tries at "repairing" buoys, all of them failed :P
08:32:43 <peter1138> - for (CargoID c = CT_BEGIN; c != NUM_CARGO; c++) delete Routing[c];
08:32:43 <peter1138> + for (CargoID c = CT_BEGIN; c != Routing.size(); c++) delete Routing[c];
08:32:48 <peter1138> Not so sure on that one...
08:33:13 <Rubidium> Celestar: and how can a vector be not slower? It has to do an extra pointer dereference
08:33:52 <Celestar> you access an element by /* not valid code */ vector->begin() + elem_number;
08:34:32 <Rubidium> and vector->begin() isn't a dereference?
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08:34:54 <Celestar> Rubidium: just like a[0] is :P
08:35:15 <peter1138> a + elem_number is less dereferencing that vector->begin() + elem_number
08:36:32 <Celestar> I'll have a look at the ASM output at some point
08:36:55 <Rubidium> vector: *(this->_M_impl._M_start + __n), array: *(this + __n)
08:37:20 <Rubidium> (array code made to look like vector code ofcourse)
08:39:20 <blathijs> peter1138: I think that storing Routing.size() in a separate variable instead of using it directly in a for loop does speed up things
08:40:05 <Celestar> blathijs: the compiler moves loop-invariants out
08:40:18 <Celestar> at least on -O1, maybe even -O0
08:41:15 <blathijs> Celestar: I'm not sure it can do that with function calls, though they should be inlined I guess
08:41:34 <Celestar> blathijs: all container methods are inlined
08:41:50 <Celestar> blathijs: except (maybe) the find/search stuff
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08:42:04 <Celestar> blathijs: hence the non-existant debuggability with -fno-inline
08:42:11 <blathijs> Celestar: Might be slightly more problematic if you call another (unknown) function in your loop body, then the size isn't guaranteed to be loop-invariant (unless the vector is a local var, in which case the compiler could be smart enough)
08:42:19 <Brianetta> Apparently, I'm the friendly face of OpenTTD
08:43:16 <Celestar> "but a 51 years-old man who doesnt know much about the world of TTDOpen" <= /me shakes head in utter disbelief
08:43:31 <blathijs> Celestar: I see your point, but I think it won't work in all cases. In any case, only calling size() once is what happens in every loop in the LLVM project, and I tend to trust those guys as to what is needed for performance :-)
08:44:32 <Celestar> I'm not sure this is the right time to squeeze the last performance drops out of cargodest
08:44:56 <dih> is there an easy way i can determine if i am using a nightly or a stable/rc release?
08:45:23 <dih> checking for a prefixed r to the version number is not valid enough
08:45:31 <Celestar> peter1138: for something completely different. I'm going to add a penalty for each stopover, so that cargo sill prefer fewer hops. Making it constant first, and adding settings (along with the vehicle factors) later. k with you?
08:45:33 <dih> as a hg checkout will have a completely different number
08:45:56 <blathijs> Celestar: Neh, it's more of an optimization that you should simply do everywhere I guess, ie, as a part of your coding style
08:46:00 <Rubidium> checking stables it easy, the rest isn't
08:46:10 <blathijs> Celestar: It also helps to make lines shorter :-)
08:46:39 <Rubidium> Brianetta: got no idea where we were unfriendly to him
08:47:53 <Brianetta> Rubidium: I still don't know where it was tha tI shone out as the friendly one.
08:48:09 <Forked> Brianetta: maybe it was because you didn't type anything when he stopped by
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08:48:52 <Brianetta> I think he played my server
08:49:44 <peter1138> Rubidium, er, I'd already written that :o
08:52:23 <peter1138> (Out of date of course)
08:53:31 <Rubidium> why don't you just always use the preload when available?
08:53:52 <peter1138> Possible expensive lookup, I think it was.
08:54:13 <Rubidium> true, but if you skip the action 6 it'll be broken
08:54:30 <Celestar> peter1138: is that an "ok" (=
08:54:31 <Rubidium> though GRFLocation is a nice idea
08:55:05 * Celestar goes hunting some food
08:55:10 <peter1138> Hmm, I didn't consider skipping.
08:58:11 <peter1138> It would be much simpler if we loaded the whole GRF into memory, like TTDPatch ;)
08:58:19 <peter1138> That would be a bit wasteful.
08:59:54 <Rubidium> okay, it's only 5 lines ;)
09:00:59 <peter1138> Yeah, mine includes tons of other changes for GRM :o
09:01:01 <DaleStan> <peter1138> That would be a bit wasteful. <-- Well, "like TTDPatch" would involve loading the GRF into memory, and then modifying it in-place, instead of copying all the data elsewhere first.
09:01:17 <peter1138> DaleStan, wasteful for us, I mean.
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09:11:57 <Brianetta> Wiki's still down, I see
09:14:47 <dih> <Rubidium> checking stables it easy, the rest isn't <- you have a hint for me how i can check if something is a stable or not?
09:15:12 <Rubidium> there's a 'bit' in rev.cpp.in that's set for stables
09:15:29 <dih> ah - ok - let me rephrase then ;-)
09:15:44 <dih> can i check a binary if it's sable
09:16:14 <dih> like - i can get the version number with ./openttd --help
09:16:29 <Rubidium> then the answer is no
09:16:44 <dih> thanks - all i needed to know :-)
09:16:59 <Rubidium> unless you're looking for \d+\.\d+\.\d+
09:21:23 <Celestar> peter1138: the fine-tuning of Routing_t, do we want that cfg-only or with GUI?
09:22:26 <peter1138> Most fine tuning is config-only.
09:22:45 <peter1138> We're talking pathfinder penalty type tuning, yes?
09:23:10 <Celestar> vehicle penalty factors, stop penalty factors ..
09:24:01 <Celestar> damn I wanted to make a cardodest vehicle entry
09:24:26 <Celestar> Rubidium: about the console command. The user has to know the CargoID, you can get the StationID with "rn lv"
09:24:36 <Celestar> Rubidium: I'll ad a list of cargoids as well
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10:35:33 <peter1138> I don't think the console command is that useful.
10:35:39 <peter1138> The map shows most of it.
10:35:49 <peter1138> Direction is missing.
10:35:53 <Celestar> peter1138: it helps me for debugging ;)
10:37:19 <Celestar> peter1138: Direction?
10:39:36 <peter1138> On the map, no direction for cargo is shown. It doesn't matter for passengers or mail anyway.
10:40:09 <Celestar> peter1138: the only one that I can build at the moment with the grfs loaded
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10:43:05 <dih> what's up with nightly.openttd.org
10:43:18 <dih> or rather "what's down with nightly.openttd.org"
10:43:26 <peter1138> The HTTP daemon is down.
10:44:46 <peter1138> Rearranging my mortgage? Sure...
10:46:09 <dih> can someone up the http daemon on nightly.openttd.org please?
10:46:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
10:53:14 <Ammler> dih: that is the 3. day now :P
10:54:29 <Celestar> Ammler: did you happen to test cargodest a bit more?
10:55:39 <Ammler> is peters cargodest server with current pull?
10:57:28 <dih> why is that stuff down then?
10:57:42 <Celestar> Ammler: mine is up-to-date
10:59:51 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
11:00:14 <Ammler> we have still desyncs with plain trunk
11:00:38 <Ammler> dunno, if it makes sense to testplay cargodest then...
11:01:01 <Kloopy> But at least the cargodest guys will be able to help debug the trunk :P
11:02:37 <Kloopy> It forces them to debug trunk :P
11:02:41 <Kloopy> Not that they wouldn't anyway, of course.
11:03:02 <Kloopy> But then when trunk doesn't desync anymore, I can finally play with YAPP across the Internets :D
11:04:06 <Ammler> Kloopy: well, it is "enough" stable for playing...
11:04:40 <Kloopy> I was playing with friends and we got desyncs after 3 years game play. Unfortunately my save game doesn't reproduce it though. :(
11:04:50 <Kloopy> So it's fine for short games :P
11:05:12 <Ammler> Kloopy: did you try to continue?
11:05:21 <Kloopy> Yeah, and it happened again every couple of months.
11:05:40 <Kloopy> Everyone but the server
11:06:08 <Ammler> yeah, would be strange if the server desyncs :P
11:07:16 <Bjarni> I was once kicked out of a game... the host went bankrupt :p
11:07:30 <Ammler> still don't think desyncs comes from YAPP...
11:07:32 <Bjarni> it was as annoying as a server desync
11:08:41 <Bjarni> <Ammler> still don't think desyncs comes from YAPP... <-- desyncs are when certain numbers stop matching. It's easy to detect that they aren't the same but going back to figure out why the data is different and what data is different is tricky
11:09:21 <Bjarni> it's like a car that fails to start. Everybody can see that it can't start but it takes a skilled guy quite a while to find the cause of it
11:09:57 <Bjarni> solution: used unskilled people as it takes too long for a skilled guy :p
11:11:18 * Bjarni selects Ammler as the unskilled guy who should remove all possible desyncs
11:11:42 <Ammler> thank you for the "should" :P
11:11:44 <Forked> if game == desynced then sync game
11:12:03 <Bjarni> I think he meant resend the savegame
11:12:10 <Bjarni> but I'm not quite sure
11:12:11 <Forked> you were looking for unskilled people, no? ;p
11:12:14 <Ammler> Celestar: just load the game fresh?
11:12:49 <Ammler> Bjarni: skilled and unskilled thinks the same :P
11:13:00 <Bjarni> Forked actually has a point. However we ruled against this because then people wouldn't report desyncs
11:13:21 <Forked> I what? I was just blurting out some gibberish :\ but ok! I'll take credit. heheah..
11:13:32 <Ammler> and the server is on instant pause :P
11:14:13 <Bjarni> Forked: you have a point in the claim about the request for unskilled people, not the solution :P
11:14:45 <SpComb> it not work then reboot();
11:14:52 <SpComb> *if it not work then reboot();
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11:15:42 <Forked> Bjarni: pfft, you were talking about resending the game when someone desyncs
11:16:21 <Ammler> if that not work then rm / -Rf
11:16:40 <Bjarni> reminds me of when I was learning java. I made some methods and checked the input. If it were outside the defined interval it should just return without doing anything
11:16:48 <Bjarni> so I wrote System.Exit()
11:17:24 <Bjarni> then I learned that Java actually have a return statement and System.Exit() was too forceful
11:18:12 <Bjarni> I think I will implement this idea in OpenTTD
11:18:35 <Bjarni> if somebody wants the train on Tile x and there aren't any train on tile x, then quit the game without any message
11:19:23 <Ammler> Bjarni: some custom defined rules should be possible :-)
11:19:41 <Bjarni> the same goes for sell, start and stop all buttons in the depot. If no vehicles are in the depot, then quit the game with no message at all
11:20:24 <Ammler> Kurt has some of those rules on his server...
11:21:55 <Bjarni> I like the readme for the update for Imperialism. It said that if you click the auto finish combat button more than x times (like more than 50 times or so) within a certain timeframe (you had to hurry) then the game would crash. They didn't want to fix this and just told the players not to do so because it didn't make sense to press it more than one
11:22:40 <Bjarni> I read it and though "who figures out bugs like that?"
11:23:44 <Bjarni> btw the guys behind Imperialism is out of business today but I don't think it's due to this bug
11:24:01 <Kloopy> lol. It's nice to think it might be due to that bug though.
11:24:43 <Bjarni> they did implement such a button in Imperialism II in a way so it avoided this bug
11:25:18 <Bjarni> the game is kind of nice, but really hard to get today and updates... well took me ages to find them online
11:28:45 <Rubidium> it at least needed a sec to answer that ;)
11:29:28 <Celestar> I don't understand your "About orders" part in the review :P
11:32:07 <Rubidium> the first item: previously management of the vehicle chain was scattered around and the next/previous/first thing was duplicated many times. I moved that to a single function called SetNext and called that. Something similar should be done with the order list management; adding/moving/removing and order should be a function which is called from wherever the order change comes from
11:32:37 <Rubidium> be it cloning, insertion, moving, deletion, marking orders invalid, etc.
11:32:54 <Celestar> isn't that what we have now?
11:33:55 <Rubidium> CmdInsert does insertion, CmdClone does insertion, CmdMove does some magic, CmdDelete does something, ...
11:34:13 <Celestar> ah .. you mean basically rewrite the order system? :P
11:34:37 <Rubidium> well, the very low level part of it
11:34:49 <Celestar> k, I'll see what I can do in trunk about this
11:34:59 <Rubidium> about the second, I see the following quite a lot:
11:35:00 <Rubidium> + for (uint c = 0; c < NUM_CARGO; c++) {
11:35:00 <Rubidium> + if (HasBit(mask, c)) Routing[c]->ProcessOrderInsertion(new_o, v->type);
11:39:08 <Celestar> Rubidium: I also don't understand your comment about Order::GetNextOrderCyclic
11:42:20 <Celestar> Rubidium: I've split the header file btw, not that it makes a huge difference in the compile time :(
11:51:43 <Rubidium> Celestar: would it please you if you add the new header to the mercurial repository?
11:51:58 <Celestar> Rubidium: er .. I did
11:52:30 <Rubidium> 87d2525988c3 doesn't have it
11:52:38 * peter1138 returns with a new mortgage 'deal'
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11:54:21 <Celestar> Rubidium: 6bb825518410 <= I've added it here
11:55:19 <Rubidium> the diff doesn't show that
11:55:48 <peter1138> Bah, why do the 'Japanese Import' versions of audio CDs have more tracks?
11:55:50 * Celestar logs onto arwen and looks
11:56:56 <peter1138> Gekz, 'Japanese Import' versions of audio CDs (in a silly cardboard case that doesn't fit CD racks) have more tracks than the usual jewel-case CD.
11:57:09 <peter1138> And they cost more.
11:57:31 <Gekz> how does that make them "Japanese Import"
11:57:50 <Rubidium> because Japanese people don't have much space they must put more on the CDs
11:59:10 <peter1138> It's what they're called.
11:59:14 <Rubidium> about the cyclic: now you have a special case for when there's one order, however the next order of that one is itself so it should just return that (IMO)
12:00:53 <Gekz> I prefer my FLACs anyway
12:00:59 <Ammler> nice additional job for translators: readme.txt
12:01:02 <Rubidium> and do blabalbalh; while (blaladadsgasdgsd); isn't as legible as: do {\n\tblabalabl;\n} while (blahblablah);
12:01:30 <Ammler> a liesmich.txt would be very cool
12:01:48 <glx> Ammler: do it (maybe we will use it)
12:02:10 <Gekz> is readme.txt translated into french?
12:02:10 <Ammler> shouldn't that be done by the "official translators?
12:02:36 <Celestar> that's a nice track layout
12:02:48 <Gekz> I would have thought it would be.
12:03:21 <Gekz> I might do it to practice my french
12:04:06 * Celestar just realized that this is a *small* station
12:04:08 <Rubidium> has the svn been down?
12:06:52 <Gekz> I had a test today, for software design.
12:07:40 <Gekz> "Jana wants to use a public domain program as part of a program she is developing. That program is covered by a license which allows only non-commercial use. How can Jana make sure she doesnt break the license?"
12:07:46 <Gekz> Didn't it just say public domain?
12:07:56 <Gekz> Yes. The question is wrong. In a test that gets you into university.
12:08:05 * Gekz claps sarcastically until his hands bleed
12:09:32 * Celestar tries to find a Trackplan of Munich Central Station
12:10:33 <peter1138> To make that layout we need bendy tunnels ;)
12:11:22 <glx> someone did it already (but very ugly)
12:11:54 <Celestar> peter1138: what layout?
12:12:36 <peter1138> The link you posted.
12:13:24 <Celestar> peter1138: yeah, but that's a small one
12:13:51 <glx> hmm spaces have been converted to %20 magically
12:14:13 <peter1138> And Firefox converts them back for me :o
12:15:11 <glx> peter1138: I copied the url from firefox
12:15:36 <peter1138> Mine converts the %20s back to spaces :(
12:15:49 <peter1138> Celestar, so we need my old diagonal station patch too? :D
12:16:26 <ln> Celestar: what about the underground platforms and tracks?
12:17:01 <Celestar> ln: they're off-image
12:17:17 <Celestar> use that one for a full layout
12:17:51 <Gekz> my friend had £840 deposited into his account from a random
12:22:40 *** peter1138 changes topic to "0.6.2 | Some stuff on *.openttd.org is back"
12:23:26 <Celestar> heh. In my testgame, Köln is right next to Bonn
12:24:18 <Ailure> I was introducing someone to openTTD yesterday, and just when i was going to point to the manual
12:24:28 <Ailure> I realized some of the servers were down
12:26:35 <Gekz> Celestar: it was e-sarcasm
12:29:29 <Bjarni> Ailure: we crashed the server just to annoy you :P
12:29:50 <Ailure> Ack, I knew everyone worked against me. :(
12:30:22 <Bjarni> just the people who knows you
12:30:41 <Gekz> everyone else plans to work against you
12:32:00 <Bjarni> fjb: you plan on it too, right?
12:32:05 <fjb> Me? What are you talking about. Nothing good I suspec.
12:32:49 <Bjarni> I'm talking about the current topic in this channel
12:33:00 <Bjarni> would you presume that I went off topic?
12:33:31 <fjb> No, not you. Else you would have to kick yourself.
12:35:14 <peter1138> Should I 'port' some changes from my railtype repo to trunk?
12:35:19 <Ailure> The Danish are a evil bunch
12:35:57 * Ailure been up all for too long and should probably nap
12:36:12 <Bjarni> peter1138: if you think they are ready and the trunk would benefit from it, then I guess it could be done
12:36:14 <fjb> Never trust your northern neighbours.
12:36:41 <Bjarni> fjb: Ailure is to the north compared to me :P
12:36:50 <Bjarni> but then again you are right
12:36:51 <peter1138> Bjarni, the bits I'm thinking of is things like using properties of RailtypeInfo for string IDs, instead of relying on consecutive IDs.
12:37:18 <Ailure> Actually I live in Sk$BiO(Be
12:37:21 <Ailure> So it's bit towards east
12:37:23 <fjb> Ok, never trust your Danish neighbours.
12:37:32 <Ailure> Or Scania as it's apparently is it's English name
12:38:00 <Bjarni> Ailure: you are supposed to use UTF-8
12:38:10 <Ailure> I knew someone would point that out :)
12:38:12 <Bjarni> it looked really weird when you wrote Skåne
12:38:41 <SpComb> Celestar: got a hg-pullable repo for cargo packets?
12:38:46 * SpComb wants to do some playtesting
12:38:59 <Ailure> I'm using a old IRC client that dosen't apparently support UTF8, and uses ANSI encoding
12:39:04 <Bjarni> but somehow it looks correct anyway... it's something that's fucked up biological :P
12:39:43 <Bjarni> peter1138: I think adding support for correct properties instead of hardcoding stuff would be nice
12:40:10 <Bjarni> Ailure: 1995 called. They want their software back
12:40:11 <Ailure> That requires restarting though, so not right now. ;)
12:40:17 <Ailure> It's actually from 2004
12:40:29 <peter1138> Bjarni, well, it's happening for NewGRF anyway, just by doing these bits first I can reduce the patch size.
12:41:01 <Ailure> this version supports SJIS
12:41:15 <Ailure> I might just switch IRC client
12:41:27 <Bjarni> peter1138: if you plan on committing it anyway then it would be best to split it up. Makes bug hunting easier later on
12:41:33 <Noldo> peter1138: nike does it without the typo
12:41:41 <Ailure> [14:40] <Gekz> you use Windows.
12:41:51 <Ailure> I use Ubuntu Linux on my laptop
12:42:01 <Bjarni> <Gekz> you use Windows. <-- I told you he is contamilated
12:42:03 <Ailure> Since it runs faster on it than Windows XP does
12:42:23 <Ailure> You mean, contaminated?
12:42:32 <Celestar> SpComb: could you connect to a server for a test?
12:42:35 <Gekz> Bjarni: you non-English speaker you :P
12:43:04 <Ailure> While I can understand that a word like contamilated is misspelled easily
12:43:10 <Ailure> I'm trying to figure where the l came from.
12:43:13 <SpComb> Celestar: well, me and a friend are playing a game, and were thinking about trying out the passenger destinations stuff
12:43:45 <Ailure> For some reason, instead of writing the word I was using copy and paste.
12:44:02 <Celestar> SpComb: please please please keep me posted
12:45:14 <Ailure> How many attempts have there been done with cargo destination now?
12:45:30 <Bjarni> <Gekz> Bjarni: you non-English speaker you :P <-- do you have any idea of how hard it is to keep track of the garbage written here, reply to it and code at the same time?
12:45:50 <Ammler> server up without mihamix?
12:46:00 <Bjarni> I prefer to concentrate on the coding part and then the channel suffers :p
12:46:02 <Ailure> if you have four arms, two monitors, and one eye on each monitor
12:46:30 <Bjarni> I would need two computers
12:46:39 <SpComb> Celestar: hmm... does the destinations stuff only apply for passengers and mail, or things like coal as well?
12:46:40 <Bjarni> or I will have to switch focus all the time
12:46:49 <SpComb> and are the targets chosen from all stations, or only interconnected ones?
12:46:57 <Bjarni> SpComb: try it before asking
12:47:09 <Celestar> SpComb: it is configurable ...
12:47:14 <Gekz> Bjarni: I understand, I just find it amusing :D
12:47:15 <SpComb> well, those are easy-to-answer questions
12:47:18 <peter1138> When coding, IRC is ignored... :p
12:47:19 <Bjarni> then you would realise that the answer to your question is in the patches window
12:47:20 <Gekz> Bjarni: like me speaking French or German >_>!
12:47:21 <Celestar> SpComb: you need boost to compile it
12:47:46 <Celestar> SpComb: good, and make sure you have identical boost version just to make sure
12:47:55 <Ailure> I always have IRC up on my second monitor
12:48:05 <Ailure> And with highlights I rarely miss a message
12:48:18 <Bjarni> sounds like a good idea
12:48:22 <Ailure> However, I usually choose to not answer right away so I don't needlessy lose focus on typing an answer :)
12:48:35 <Bjarni> anybody who wants to sponsor a monitor for me so I can monitor IRC?
12:48:43 <Ailure> Just do like what I did
12:48:43 <Tim> Any chance someone can post a compiled win32-version of the Cargodestination? :) Or is that technically impossible?
12:48:47 <Ailure> and use a old crappy CRT for it
12:49:06 <Bjarni> I don't have a CRT at all
12:49:07 <Ailure> Mine starts having some ghosting articffacts from stuff being burnt in, but it's only noticeable against a black background
12:49:12 <Ailure> and only if I look really close
12:49:15 <Ailure> stuff is at least still readable
12:49:23 <Noldo> cargodest is creating a bit of a buzz
12:49:26 <Ailure> then look for one in a junkyard ;)
12:49:39 <Ailure> I would rather use a LCD
12:50:09 * peter1138 has a crappy LCD as a second monitor... and a CRT as primary.
12:50:15 <Bjarni> my CRT ended in a junkyard because it wasn't able to make the same pixel hit the same location each time anymore
12:50:23 <Bjarni> all that flickering gave me a headache :(
12:50:31 <Ailure> My CRT is crappy onl ybecuse how used it is
12:50:36 <Gekz> I have a backlight broken in my CRT
12:50:45 <Ailure> Both of my monitors are about as big in terms of screen size :)
12:50:55 <Ailure> but the CRT is a giant compared to the LCD when it comes to fatness and weight
12:51:00 <Celestar> my primary monitors are two 19" TFTs :D
12:51:49 <Bjarni> I saw a nice and cheap 20" TFT (or was it LCD?). I was interested until I read a review
12:52:04 <Tim> Celestar: So you have more than 2 monitors connected? ;)
12:52:11 <Celestar> Tim: rarely, but I tried it
12:52:14 <Ailure> I probably hold off buying a new LCD for now
12:52:18 <Bjarni> you have to look at it at a certain angle... too high, low or to the side and it would be black
12:52:29 <SpComb> I have two monitors, both of them ViewSonic, but one is a VX series, the other a VA
12:52:29 <Ailure> there's apparently new technology out soon that probably beats LCD in certain compartments
12:52:34 <Ailure> if anything, it might cause a price drop
12:52:36 <SpComb> the difference between the two is very, very, noticeable
12:52:45 <Gekz> I want a wall made of OLEDs
12:52:56 <Forked> Try the Eizo 24" LCD FlexScan SX2461WK
12:52:57 <Ailure> I forgot the name of the other technology
12:53:01 <Ailure> but it's a mix of LCD and CRT
12:53:01 <Bjarni> and it was impossible to adjust so you just need to sit really still and have the right chair, height and so on
12:53:06 <Gekz> rear projected homosexuality?
12:53:11 <SpComb> Celestar: what boost version are you using?
12:53:23 <Forked> GF couldn't find a replacement CRT after the last one broke, so we got that one for her. Set me back a bit, but was totally worth it.
12:53:29 <Ailure> basically, each subpixel have a own ray cannon
12:53:33 <Ailure> or whatever it's called now
12:53:39 <SpComb> I'd like to think of this in terms of which of debian's libboost-* packages I need to install
12:53:41 <Bjarni> SpComb: I'm using 1.35. I tried 1.33 and that one works too but it produced a lot of warnings on OSX
12:54:07 <SpComb> is the libboost-graph stuff enough?
12:54:15 <Forked> 10000 NOK for that eizo monitor.. worth every krone
12:54:34 <Forked> really good if you do photostuff etc and want the prints to look like they do on the monitor
12:54:44 <SpComb> it's installing 270MB of libboost-* deps :)
12:54:46 <Ailure> Supposdly a mix of the sharpness of a LCD screen, with the superior blackness of CRT
12:54:53 <Ailure> Black colors do badly on LCD's
12:55:18 <Celestar> SpComb: what distro is that?
12:55:30 <Celestar> SpComb: I'm using 1.34.1
12:55:31 <SpComb> /home/terom/openttd/cargodest-celestar/src/routing.cpp:11:26: error: routing_base.h: No such file or directory
12:55:48 *** KillaloT has joined #openttd
12:55:54 <SpComb> and then later it predictably errors out totally
12:56:20 <Bjarni> forgot to add the file before committing?
12:56:29 <SpComb> Celestar: and my distro is debian testing
12:57:43 <Bjarni> abort: error: Connection refused
12:57:54 <Bjarni> I haven't updated in a while
12:58:07 <Bjarni> since you turned off the computer each time I tried :p
12:58:36 <SpComb> other than that, compiled fine
12:59:50 <Bjarni> I really can't pull hg :(
12:59:50 <glx> <Tim> Any chance someone can post a compiled win32-version of the Cargodestination? :) Or is that technically impossible? <-- I can
12:59:51 <SpComb> and it loaded the savegame as well
13:05:29 <SpComb> managed to compile the client and connect to the server as well
13:06:10 <Celestar> Bjarni: merge from trunk
13:08:16 <SpComb> Celestar: are the values for economy.*_dest_type documented somewhere?
13:08:55 <Celestar> SpComb: 0 == normal, 2 == destinations, 1 == reserved
13:09:16 <Celestar> SpComb: one of use will need to write a wiki page
13:09:23 <Celestar> SpComb: it's in the GUI as well, you know
13:09:42 <glx> hmm make bundle_zip outputs a norev000
13:09:46 <SpComb> right, so I can set pax and mail to 2, and leave the rest as 0
13:09:58 <glx> something is wrong with hg
13:10:13 <SpComb> great, just waiting for my friend to finish compiling and we'll see if it works
13:11:28 <Celestar> SpComb: you test it, and then write a bit about it in the wiki?
13:12:14 <SpComb> is there an existing wiki page?
13:16:05 <Ammler> glx: is make able to generate that name or did you change it after?
13:16:28 <Ammler> (replaced custom with cargodest)
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13:17:58 <Celestar> SpComb: does it .. work?
13:18:37 <Tim> glx: Thanks, i will try it today evening, i hope it will stay up as long as that... :)
13:18:57 <SpComb> Celestar: well, it hasn't crashed so far
13:19:01 <SpComb> but we don't have any passenger services
13:20:00 <peter1138> Sacro's already wanked off five times to that.
13:22:36 <Tekky> yay, the OpenTTD wiki is back up. The trains be praised.
13:24:03 <Tekky> And the server admins of course, too. :)
13:24:06 <Celestar> SpComb: mail only? :P
13:24:37 <Celestar> Sacro: what about that image?
13:24:44 <Celestar> I fail to see any humoristic content
13:26:07 <Noldo> ln: what do you mean by normal?
13:28:12 <SpComb> Celestar: well, it's only in the year 1928
13:29:26 <ln> Noldo: see src/namegen.cpp
13:29:43 <peter1138> ln, because a GRF does not need the source to be patched.
13:30:19 <ln> peter1138: true, but they need the GRF.
13:30:34 <Belugas> they just have to make one
13:31:15 <Belugas> hello all, by the way
13:31:18 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
13:31:29 <ln> hmm, i wonder what "they" was i referring to... well, doesn't matter.
13:32:07 <SpComb> Celestar: first passenger train did a round trip, and it hasn't crashed yet
13:34:05 <Celestar> SpComb: and didn't desync either.
13:34:20 <Celestar> SpComb: there'll be desyncs I guess. Not sure whether they are trunk-related or cargodest-related
13:34:39 <Celestar> SpComb: check the smallmap for visual output or the console ("rn") for detailed viewing
13:35:10 <Belugas> ln, the same "they" as the ones you are refering to
13:36:36 <Belugas> no no no... right now, it's rather "Bon matin"
13:36:48 * Gekz forces the frenchman into a hole
13:37:12 <Belugas> blame my time zone :D
13:38:31 <SpComb> Celestar: should I increase the debug level on the console or somesuch?
13:38:38 <Celestar> SpComb: is your server accessible from outside?
13:38:42 <Celestar> SpComb: only if you're interested
13:38:55 <Celestar> SpComb: you can set routing from 0 to 7 and cargopacket from 0 to 7
13:39:08 <Celestar> 7 WILL mess up your console badly :P
13:40:01 <Brianetta> Does it log every logging attempt
13:40:39 <Brianetta> It's the best way to get excessive debug output (:
13:40:57 <Celestar> Brianetta: I don't need such ugly tricks for excessive debug output
13:40:57 <SpComb> Celestar: accessible from outside?
13:41:03 <SpComb> it's running on skrblz.qmsk.net, default port
13:41:06 <Celestar> SpComb: from me, specifically ;)
13:41:59 <SpComb> I'm running what I pulled from you
13:42:05 <SpComb> have you compiled after the header-fix commit you made?
13:42:54 <Celestar> which ones are you using?
13:43:23 <SpComb> hmm, I guess those two aren't compatible then
13:43:56 <Ammler> Celestar: we have legacy packs :-)
13:44:39 <Brianetta> No wonder my backups take longer.
13:46:04 <Celestar> you should update to 7.2 at some point
13:46:19 <SpComb> Celestar: I'll give you the server pw in a /notice
13:47:04 <Celestar> dbg: [grf] NewGRF 44440602 not found; checksum FA22D67ABD830A8E905025F946356E29
13:47:34 <Ammler> Celestar: looks like PBI :-)
13:47:44 <SpComb> Celestar: yes, it's pikka's basic industries v1.2
13:47:52 <SpComb> should be part of the pack...
13:48:06 <Brianetta> 951c8905702994df78d3340fd13efb35 data/standard/pikkindw.grf
13:48:07 <Ammler> SpComb: 7.2 has a updated one :-)
13:48:38 <Ammler> Brianetta: didn't delete 7.1 packs
13:48:39 <SpComb> fa22d67abd830a8e905025f946356e29 openttd/cargodest-celestar/bin/data/ottdc_grfpack/5_industries_cargos/pikkind/pikkindw.grf
13:48:43 <peter1138> Hmm, I can modify the railtype spec now.
13:48:56 <peter1138> I should lump all string properties together, I reckon.
13:49:07 <Gekz> That underground rail patch is interesting
13:49:32 <Brianetta> Gekz: and puzzling. One wonders where they store it.
13:50:16 <Brianetta> Each tile has limited storage space.
13:50:34 <Brianetta> Having underground rails means more to store.
13:50:54 <Gekz> what can be pruned to make way>
13:51:07 <Brianetta> It has *bits* to spare, not bytes
13:51:38 <Ammler> SpComb: eis_os is thinking about a GRF Repo...
13:51:42 <Brianetta> and since the map is an array of tiles, any increase will noticeably increase the sizeof a saved game
13:51:59 <Brianetta> and since a saved game is transferred every time a multiplayer connects, nobody wants it to grow much.
13:52:18 <Gekz> and i have 100KB/s upload
13:52:38 <Brianetta> "it's a patch therefore optional" is how the guys at Patch work
13:52:47 <Brianetta> Here, you need to convinve the dev team that it's a good thing
13:52:56 <SpComb> Ammler: discussion where?
13:53:03 <Bjarni> why do you send stuff like that to me?
13:53:33 <Ammler> SpComb: at #tycoon, yesterday?
13:53:50 <SpComb> Ammler: I'll have to look at it later
13:54:03 <Ammler> orudge: did setup suPHP for him :-)
13:54:54 <Gekz> Brianetta: I meant enabled in the menu patch
13:59:30 <Belugas> if it's in the code, from a programming point of view, it's not optional
14:03:01 <DorpsGek> Ammler: csaboka was last seen in #openttd 45 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 35 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <Csaboka> I have to go, bye
14:03:19 <Celestar> that was about the time when he joined openttd (=
14:08:08 <peter1138> He didn't join for very long, did he? :o
14:09:10 <Celestar> maybe we should e-mail him
14:10:21 <Belugas> i think we should not. If ever he feels like re-joining, i'm sure he will know how to and where to
14:10:47 <Belugas> And i do have a feeling his real life is a buzy one, right now :)
14:13:16 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
14:13:30 <Celestar> my client just survived a manual reset of the routing system without desyncing :)
14:16:32 *** patrick has joined #openttd
14:20:47 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
14:38:02 <Yorick> :o my openttd just went asking me about zlib1.dll
14:40:04 <Yorick> the same exe as yesterday...in the exact same dir
14:40:57 <glx> did you modify something in your system?
14:42:24 <Belugas> stuff that get installed upon reboot?
14:42:34 <Belugas> or finally removed.. depends
14:42:52 <Yorick> could be ms update....but haven't seen that
14:43:08 <glx> ms update has nothing to do with zlib
14:43:08 <Yorick> but openttd should be linked statically to zlib1.dll, freetype6.dll?
14:43:09 <Brianetta> say_player 255 "Spectators only (-:
14:43:09 <Brianetta> Unknown player. Player range is between 1 and 8.
14:43:20 <Brianetta> console can't chat to team, but graphical clients can
14:43:36 <Yorick> Brianetta: patch it :)
14:45:21 <glx> Brianetta: console can IIRC
14:47:53 <glx> hmm that's a bug I guess :)
14:52:15 <Celestar> and once again, the slowness I just tried to identify in cargodest is because nspluginwrapper eats 99% of my CPU :S
14:52:40 <Yorick> kill nspluginwrapper :)
15:03:12 <peter1138> Gah, OpenOffice hung, taking WMP with it. Stupid OS.
15:03:29 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe it's the HDD :o
15:03:41 <peter1138> Task manager and the Start menu are not working either...
15:03:50 <Celestar> that sounds very much like windows
15:04:05 <Celestar> then again, my screensaver on linux just crashed :P
15:04:13 <Celestar> can't get into my X session
15:04:13 <peter1138> Reset to device, \Device\RaidPort0, was issued.
15:04:35 * Celestar logs in as root and kills the screensaver manually
15:05:32 <Celestar> heh that even worked
15:09:17 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
15:09:35 <Eddi|zuHause> <Ammler> a liesmich.txt would be very cool <- nah... much better would be a "lesen.mir" :p
15:10:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i have really seen those :p
15:13:36 <DorpsGek> Yorick: TiberiusTeng was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 3 days, 0 hours, 2 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <TiberiusTeng> actually it was just a few lines now also in peter1138's update ;)
15:14:28 <Ammler> that's what I miss from him :-)
15:15:21 <peter1138> newgrf gui *UPDATE*
15:15:28 <peter1138> We've had a newgrf gui for ages.
15:15:44 <Yorick> at least he had a sane grfgui
15:16:10 <Ammler> we take trunk as given :-P
15:16:35 <planetmaker> more, better, newer, now! ;)
15:16:49 <Celestar> peter1138: what's the "update" part?
15:17:17 <Yorick> it got multiculom, with drag&drop support for shuffling them
15:17:25 <Ammler> if once used "that" GUI, you can't manage NewGRFs without, at lest not a list we have at coop.
15:18:07 <Yorick> the presets are nothing compared to "that" GUI
15:18:39 <Ammler> and I would not like to need to chose.
15:19:22 * planetmaker goes home and will have a look :)
15:19:55 *** thvdburgt has joined #openttd
15:24:04 <Celestar> peter1138: will that be in trunk at some point?
15:25:43 <Ammler> Celestar: see last post, it has presets in, planetmaker that would be nice...
15:26:28 <Ammler> one of the most important patches for my client IN :-)
15:26:46 <peter1138> Celestar, I've not even considered it, what with people who keep bugging about it.
15:27:33 <Ammler> peter1138: who? (rubidums request is solved...)
15:28:20 <peter1138> Well so far you and Yorick.
15:29:37 <Ammler> peter1138: I bugged about the industry fix, which helped :P
15:30:44 <Yorick> Ammler: I'm updating the gui now :)
15:30:54 <Yorick> his patchpack got a version with presets
15:35:37 <Tekky> I have a little programming question: In Windows, when I create a DLL, I can specify which symbols should be exported and only those symbols will be visible, so I have no unnecessary global namespace pollution. But when I create a static library instead, I can't specify which symbols to export, so that all symbols are always visible. This causes problems with global namespace pollution. Is...
15:35:39 <Tekky> ...there any easy solution to this besides using different namespaces?
15:37:41 <Yorick> and he slammed the door
15:38:36 <Yorick> ./configure --help is broken, it just configures
15:39:41 <Ammler> Yorick: it should show the help "after" configure :-)
15:40:21 <Celestar> SpComb: you should write all your GUI suggestions up somewhere
15:40:22 <Yorick> openttd -h does not show its help after you quit the game either...
15:40:35 <Celestar> maybe peter1138 and I will find the time to look at it
15:42:44 <Belugas> Celestar, easy to write it down: MAKE IT DIFFERENT. We want NEW stuff
15:45:07 <Belugas> oh.. and "it has to be easier, 'cause i'm lazy'"
15:50:32 <Yorick> Ammler: do you need an update of the newgrf gui?
15:51:46 <Ammler> update the thread, else planetmaker will do it again...
15:56:01 *** grumbel has joined #openttd
15:57:44 <Ammler> Yorick: you extracted from TibPP?
15:57:58 <Ammler> did he use another version there?
15:58:07 <Yorick> he updated it for the presets there
15:58:36 <Ammler> the version in that thread had it too, I used that for wwottdgd
15:58:53 <Yorick> at least the tibpp did apply
15:58:54 <peter1138> ^ Who wants to download TTD? :o
15:59:15 *** LilDood has joined #openttd
16:00:50 <Ammler> maybe orudge will collect some time donatios for "his" fee?
16:01:08 <Yorick> the multiplayer tooltip needs some updating :-)
16:02:44 <Ammler> or did he move transporttycoon.com outside of uk?
16:06:48 <orudge> Ammler: it was never in the UK
16:06:49 <Ammler> oh, now I make a diff between yours and yoricks :-)
16:06:58 <orudge> also, one of the download mirrors is...
16:07:12 <orudge> anyway, that company doesn't own TTD, as far as I know ;)
16:08:18 <Ammler> well, also the german community homepage has "official" download locations
16:09:56 <Ammler> he same location as openttd stuff.. (cillix)
16:15:47 <Ammler> planetmaker: did it too in the meantime...
16:17:58 <planetmaker> I took the last official newgrf-gui patch by Tiberius and just pasted it 1:1 - working fine
16:18:21 <planetmaker> no cross-contamination from somewhere else possible :)
16:18:52 <Yorick> mine is forking wine too :)
16:19:46 <SpComb> Celestar: I should probably formulate them a bit better first
16:20:02 <planetmaker> small is beauteful. Mine is 8k smaller :P
16:21:40 <mortal> thanks for openttd, guys
16:22:07 <mortal> I just learned about it a couple days ago, I've been playing it non-stop only interrupted by silly studying
16:22:57 <Belugas> studying.. that's as discusting as working
16:23:09 <Belugas> but... studying makes working more enjoyable
16:23:12 <Ammler> Yorick: I will use planetmaker's version, I hope, you don't worry. ;-)
16:23:28 <Yorick> it was more for personal use :)
16:24:20 <planetmaker> Belugas: talking about the new grfgui patch? Probably :P
16:25:03 <Belugas> when I see all tghe extra tabs that neither you or yorick cared to remove...
16:25:04 <Celestar> SpComb: 20 years, no desync :D
16:25:22 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
16:25:53 <Ammler> Belugas: do ignore my paste
16:26:01 <Ammler> that was a patch of a patch :-)
16:26:05 <Belugas> no, you should invent your own code style and apply it all over the place :P
16:26:34 <planetmaker> Hm... I thought I took some care to remove extra tabs
16:26:41 * planetmaker should go reading on coding style again
16:27:37 <Belugas> planetmaker, don't rely on tools, use your eyes and an editor who can show ypu tabs and spaces...
16:28:56 <planetmaker> Belugas: Was mostly manual, but granted, I didn't check for spaces. So, they were wrong before :P
16:29:45 <Belugas> i have to admit that planetmaker's patch is far superior regarding that then Yorick's one
16:30:06 <Belugas> as always, Yorick, you are rushing on the job, not taking time to beautify it ;)
16:30:12 <planetmaker> deleting superflous tabs was also half the work :P
16:30:29 <Yorick> Belugas: I did not even look at the source
16:30:33 <Belugas> patience, patience. relax, sit back, read your "work"
16:31:01 <planetmaker> spoketh the wise man of OpenTTD coding :)
16:31:34 <Belugas> mmh... well... you should not ;) i'm not even applying my own medecine ^_^
16:31:48 <Belugas> must be why my patches take so long to hit trunk hehe
16:32:34 <Yorick> Belugas: this patch was not intended to go into trunk
16:33:01 <Belugas> maybe not at first, but didn't you guys are trying to do so now?
16:33:20 <planetmaker> is it for ... { or is the { in a new line?
16:33:25 <Belugas> and even then, does it mean the patch has to be sloppied written?
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16:33:47 <Belugas> planetmaker, don;t follow you
16:34:12 <planetmaker> general, a for loop. Is the opening { in the same line or the next ?
16:34:52 <Belugas> Yorick is right. but a function has the "{" on a new line
16:35:49 <planetmaker> aye. The patch has been quite inconsistant on that... :S
16:35:49 <Belugas> case NLWW_AVAILABLE_GRF_LIST: { <-- get some breathing room down there
16:37:33 <planetmaker> hm... I don't follow. Empty line there?
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16:40:58 <Belugas> the NLWW_TOGGLE_SHOW_MODE stuff seems to be silly
16:41:15 <Belugas> but i may have not seens the stuff in action
16:41:30 <Yorick> it hides all grfids that are already used
16:41:50 <Belugas> this->show_file_names VS this->show_all
16:41:54 <Belugas> that is what i find silly
16:42:16 <planetmaker> I see now what you mean Belugas :) (wrt "space")
16:42:45 <Yorick> Belugas: it is not, show_all hides all grfs already in use ;)
16:43:54 <Belugas> ok, as ai said, i did not looked a t the stuff compiled, just checking code
16:44:37 <Belugas> ai is a mammal living on a tree
16:45:42 <Belugas> + // ASSUME: this->width, this->height already contains the new window size <--- after that, LOTS of spaces/tags
16:45:54 <Yorick> "ok, as ai said, i did not looked a t the stuff compiled, just checking code" --> "ok, as I said, I did not look at the stuff compiled, just checking code" ;)
16:46:49 <Belugas> grammatically, i would not have been the ai either, ai would have been someone who said that ^_^
16:47:06 <Belugas> "Ok, as "AI" said"...
16:48:20 <planetmaker> one-line comments are preceeded by // rather than /* ... */, right?
16:48:52 <Celestar> planetmaker: no, only when they come after code
16:52:02 <planetmaker> welcome home, peter1138 :)
16:57:01 * planetmaker found the option "show spaces" and now removes them :)
16:57:28 <peter1138> set list listchars=tab:,.,trail:%,extends:>,nbsp:_
16:57:48 <peter1138> Although I don't know what extends and nbsp are for ;)
16:58:19 <Celestar> set listchars=tab:~.,trail:¬,precedes:>
16:58:48 <peter1138> SpComb, server details? :D
16:59:02 <SpComb> peter1138: for our cargodest game?
16:59:28 <SpComb> skrblz.fixme.fi, default port
17:02:48 <Celestar> ln: what the FUQQ is that?
17:03:03 <ln> looks like a floppy drive to me
17:03:12 <peter1138> The real question is why...
17:06:05 <planetmaker> :) Geekz, nerds,... all of ...us ;)
17:07:18 <Ammler> Celestar: the NAND signal was a nice idea...
17:08:52 <planetmaker> Belugas: thx for your time. Thanks to it, I learnt how to look for spaces :)
17:10:04 <peter1138> NAND signals are a stupid idea.
17:10:21 <Celestar> Ammler: does it do anything useful?
17:10:34 <Celestar> I mean for the *game*
17:10:45 <Ammler> it would make those logic gates a little bit smaller :-)
17:11:13 * Celestar wonders when someone will port NetBSD onto an opettd train network :P
17:11:28 <Ammler> we have some games in our archive which uses NOT
17:13:34 <Ammler> Celestar: check Mark's posts in that thread...
17:14:06 <peter1138> Programmable signals would be a better idea, to do whatever you want.
17:14:19 <Celestar> does one *really* need programmable signals?
17:15:12 <Celestar> I think it's a workaround to a mismanaged network :P
17:15:20 <Ammler> peter1138: with programmable signals, you cuold "program" NOT, I assume :-)
17:15:50 <Celestar> Ammler: I've seen that
17:16:20 * peter1138 rewrites his GRF...
17:18:28 <Celestar> everytime I get a "no changes found" when pulling from peter1138's server I'm disappointed :P
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17:40:08 <Wolf01> uhm... some stuff is back... like nightlies?
17:44:22 <FR^2> Hmm. Seems the ai of the latest trunk still builds airports even if airplanes are deactivated and the number of airplanes per player is reduced to zero.
17:44:31 <FR^2> Should I file a but about this?
17:45:45 <Wolf01> oh, I have another bug
17:47:11 <Wolf01> when building a tubular bridge over some bridgeheads the cars of a train travelling on the upper bridge seldom disappear like they are at the height of the bridge below
17:49:00 <Wolf01> they were 3, but one failed and I'm not able anymore to modify it and bring it back to work
18:05:31 <Sacro> if you tell a train to reverse, and then hit go to depot, it forgets all about reversing and just speeds back up
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18:05:36 <Sacro> Bjarni: fixitfixitfixitfixit
18:06:10 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: itsfreesoftwarefixityourselfitsfreesoftwarefixityourselfitsfreesoftwarefixityourselfitsfreesoftwarefixityourselfitsfreesoftwarefixityourself
18:06:12 <Bjarni> I can only fix one thing at a time
18:08:06 <Sacro> crashed trains show lost messages
18:08:57 <Sacro> my tank engine is running forward one way
18:09:04 <Sacro> then switching ends and running backwards the other
18:12:45 <Belugas> now that's Hell!! I've got no more power on my headphones and my wired ones are at home. Meaning I do not have ANY music at all!
18:13:16 <Bjarni> <Sacro> Bjarni: and break 3 :( <-- you see... the point is that I will not break anything
18:13:41 <Bjarni> now if I break anything I will blame you for interrupting me :p
18:14:25 <Sacro> Belugas: modprobe pcspkr
18:14:53 <peter1138> Let's phone Belugas and play music down it :D
18:16:36 * Bjarni calls Belugas and puts on a Klingon opera
18:16:40 <Sacro> peter1138: i like that idea
18:17:07 <Forked> ..if he has two phones you can even sort out the stereo
18:17:16 <Forked> if one of you play the left channel.... and try to get it synced
18:21:33 <peter1138> Bjarni, oh I just remembered about your conversation this morning.
18:22:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate getting up early... you're tired the entire day and don't get _anything_ done...
18:23:17 <peter1138> I hate getting up late. It makes me tired and there's no time left to do anything.
18:23:20 <Bjarni> I think that conversation took place just before I went to bed....
18:23:55 <peter1138> It was after midnight GMT, therefore it was morning.
18:24:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i learned that i have two programs, that i need to compile with the exact same options, but one won't compile with -mno-cygwin and the other not with -mcygwin
18:24:48 <peter1138> But... 4 AA batteries!
18:26:45 <peter1138> We ought to do something with the DOS/Windows flag for NewGRF...
18:27:29 <peter1138> It is a prime cause of desyncs.
18:28:10 <Eddi|zuHause> we should auto-convert DOS grfs on load, and deprecate the use of DOS newgrfs
18:28:21 <peter1138> But DOS GRFs have more colours.
18:28:36 <DaleStan> Desyncs? or just cannot-join issues?
18:28:36 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: opposite :-)
18:29:49 <Ammler> peter1138: I played a long time with dos grfs, yesterday, just had the "ugly" blue but not deyncs...
18:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> DaleStan: server has windows grfs and windows newgrfs, client has dos grfs and windows newgrfs, he can join because md5 of newgrfs match, but desyncs because the newgrfs deactivate themselves
18:30:05 <peter1138> Ammler, DOS GRFs by themselves won't be a problem.
18:30:16 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, thanks :)
18:30:49 <peter1138> On the other hand, most people use Windows GRFs, so the lack of colours probably doesn't matter...
18:31:18 <peter1138> It would give MB another thing to complain about :)
18:31:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's only like 2 colours that get mapped to similar colours, or not?
18:32:12 <peter1138> In a thread somewhere...
18:32:40 <peter1138> That's the value I was thinking.
18:33:27 <frosch123> dos indices 20,21,28,58,6A,88 are not present in the windows palette
18:33:42 <DaleStan> I count 18 pinks in the Windows palette, but some of them may be in both palettes. 9 are tagged as "WinAPI".
18:34:09 <frosch123> pink is no problem, as the original grfs do not contain pink
18:34:29 <hylje> where does the pink come from, then
18:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> when the bees and the flowers...
18:41:06 <peter1138> Are some of the pink slots used for palette animation?
18:42:18 <peter1138> Mmm, 9 colours in that image.
18:43:49 <Belugas> in gfx.cpp, there is the DoPaletteAnimation that deals with it
18:43:58 <Belugas> (i think it's teh proper name)
18:44:08 <Belugas> is starts at palette entry 217,
18:44:26 <Belugas> and add 36 or 28 depending if we're on dos or winwos
18:44:50 <Belugas> so it actually stops before the 2nd pink block
18:45:03 <Belugas> (figures are from memory...)
18:46:12 <peter1138> How the hell can I do tunnels...
18:46:47 * Belugas will not show peter1138 how his son is doing them :)
18:47:01 <Eddi|zuHause> by making them the same as bridges...
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18:47:53 <frosch123> peter1138: like tramtracks?
18:48:26 <peter1138> Problem is rail types have their own style of 'portal'
18:48:42 <Celestar> peter1138: what about the spectator problem, what does cause it?
18:48:55 <peter1138> Which conflicts with the goal of being landscape sprite agnostic.
18:49:31 <peter1138> Celestar, GetPlayer(PLAYER_SPECTATOR), to be literal.
18:49:37 <frosch123> use you 'default station type' also for tunnels?
18:49:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, bridges have the ability to look different depending on railtype, don't they?
18:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so tunnels would get that same behaviour
18:50:19 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, I said that :)
18:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> well, newgrf bridges i was speaking of
18:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, there should really be different tunnel (entrance) types...
18:52:22 <Celestar> frosch123: you there?
18:53:04 <Celestar> frosch123: what was the function you said I should look at for cargodest?
18:53:31 <frosch123> Vehicle::CopyVehicleConfigAndStatistics() <- everything that cannot be done through commands needs to go there
18:54:09 <frosch123> everything that can be done through commands shall go into CopyHeadSpecificThings
18:55:06 <Celestar> frosch123: within "CopyHeadSpecificThings" ... are the two vehicles already fully configured (i.e. refits and orders)
18:55:09 <frosch123> maybe you would also need TransferCargo()
18:55:44 <frosch123> Celestar: Those three functions are called only once during DC_EXEC, not during cost estimation
18:55:54 <frosch123> i.e. they do the things which are not undo-able
18:56:50 <frosch123> no, that applies only to the lower part of CopyHeadSpecificThings()
18:57:04 <Celestar> frosch123: but the old vehicle is still intact in CopyHeadSpecificThings() riht?
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18:57:20 <peter1138> So does it all work properly now? ;)
18:57:28 <frosch123> but of couse not in the original consist
18:57:32 <Celestar> frosch123: hm .. nope, the wagons aren't
18:57:37 <Celestar> I need the full consists
18:57:55 <frosch123> then you are in trouble
18:58:10 <frosch123> what happens, when the player moves wagons around in the depot?
18:58:32 <peter1138> Hmm, we just need to make our calls either side of the autoreplace.
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18:58:53 <peter1138> (Same with moving things in a depot)
18:59:02 <Celestar> peter1138: moving things a depot works
18:59:14 <Celestar> peter1138: as autoreplace uses the other commands, it should work automagically
19:00:04 <frosch123> what is about TransferCargo() ?
19:01:32 <frosch123> Celestar: Note, that moving vehicles in depot and moving them back to the original order must result in the same state, else it will desync
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19:02:11 <peter1138> frosch123, does the same happen on all clients?
19:02:43 <Celestar> frosch123: I have a situation where a planned autoreplace doesn't happen. What might cause this?
19:02:46 <frosch123> no, it is done once more on the client that issues the CmdMassReplace (or similiar)
19:03:47 <frosch123> Celestar: It will construct the new chain, also share the orders, but at the end of that it will sell the new vehicles, move the old vehicles back to their original position, and restore random seeds
19:04:07 <frosch123> note: building vehicles needs random
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19:04:20 <Celestar> frosch123: I see. yet the replace is NOT happening here for some reason :o
19:06:36 <peter1138> That could be a problem.
19:06:55 <peter1138> Celestar, was order-order important?
19:07:01 <peter1138> edge order, basically.
19:07:06 <Celestar> peter1138: shouldn't be
19:07:21 <peter1138> Then it should be fine.
19:07:33 * peter1138 still considers the tunnel issue :o
19:07:35 <Celestar> peter1138: if it is, we can still force a sort
19:07:52 <Celestar> hm autoreplace works correctly with cargodest from what I can see
19:08:18 <frosch123> Celestar: try the manual MassReplace button in network
19:08:33 <Celestar> frosch123: er? "manual MAssReplace" ?
19:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... at what point does a prototype count as "used" wrt whether you get offered one again
19:08:50 <frosch123> the bottom most button in depot
19:08:55 <Celestar> frosch123: can you poke me tomorrow to do this?
19:09:27 <frosch123> tomorrow? you mean around 18:00 when I might be back here?
19:10:00 <Celestar> so what do we still need to do
19:11:33 <Celestar> basically mostly the cargo view
19:11:45 <Celestar> and another code review, right Rubidium ? ;)
19:12:08 <ln> attention, i have an IMPORTANT PATCH.
19:12:35 <Bjarni> you fixed some indenting?
19:12:45 <Celestar> peter1138: I think we should first do the total cargo view and other minor things, don't you agree?
19:13:04 <frosch123> what does it do, does it patch dorpsgek to automatically kick everyone typing "english only"?
19:13:27 <Celestar> peter1138: we also have the two thingies on the TODO ... but do we really want them?
19:13:50 <Bjarni> ln: it fixes bug FS#ln???
19:14:12 <peter1138> ln, it is to dutchies :(
19:14:13 <frosch123> FS#ln is quite nasty, I got already fixed multiple times
19:14:35 <ln> Bjarni: you're not familiar with the bug number FS#ln? it's not even my invention.
19:15:07 <peter1138> -Fix [FS#AmmlersStillTooLazy]:
19:15:15 <Celestar> ln: what the HELL is the difference between those?
19:16:29 <ln> come on, i've managed to get a similar patch committed within a few minutes back in the days when even Darkvater and Tron were here.
19:18:46 <Belugas> ln, i'll do that tonigh
19:18:52 <Belugas> if i remember to do so
19:18:58 <Ammler> Celestar: then=denn and than=als ?
19:19:25 <Yorick> Ammler: then=dan and than=dan in dutch
19:20:31 <Kloopy> haha. ln needs an award for "Most awesome patch of the Month"
19:21:02 <mortal> that's the best diff I've ever seen
19:21:04 <Celestar> Ammler: in comparisons, always "than", never " then"
19:21:26 <Kloopy> This is more important than YAPP or cargodests!
19:22:25 <ln> my previous similar patch seems to be from december 2004.
19:22:27 <Belugas> guys, every bit counts
19:22:49 <Kloopy> Do you have that diff file, ln?
19:22:49 <Belugas> so id' say that is' about the same as changing color to colour and such
19:23:05 <Kloopy> Do all the comments and code use "colour" then?
19:23:21 <mortal> belugas, color is US spelling, colour is UK
19:23:29 <oh> +// Vehicles of 2 years do easier meet this setting than vehicles
19:23:31 <mortal> then is one word, than is a completely different one
19:23:38 <Belugas> it's nt there yet, but it's oa work in progress
19:24:01 <Belugas> mortal, we do the british way
19:24:04 <Yorick> mortal: in dutch it isn't
19:24:06 <oh> there's still more to fix on that patchline
19:24:44 <Kloopy> Vehicles that are 2 years old more easily meet this setting than vehicles that are one year old
19:24:44 <mortal> heh, I guess that covers vocab as well?
19:25:08 <mortal> gas stop => petrol station, whatever => car park, etc
19:25:22 <ln> never include two separate fixes in the same patch.
19:25:40 <Belugas> ln is ONCE again, right :)
19:26:53 <Eddi|zuHause> mortal: neither petrol stations nor car parks are in the game (afaik)
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19:28:34 <mortal> Eddi|zuHause, you never know about comments
19:31:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes... "grep 'petrol station' src/ -r"
19:31:24 <mortal> awwwww, just pick on the guy who isn't compiling his own nightly builds :(
19:31:39 <ln> there was one potential than-fix missing from my patch, because i had hard time figuring out what the hell was the sentence supposed to mean.
19:31:51 <ln> src/network/core/packet.cpp: /* If size was sooner to zero then the string in the stream * skip till the \0, so than packet can be read out correctly for the rest */
19:32:13 <mortal> clearly s/than/that/, but the first part eh
19:32:34 <Yorick> I think all is written by TB
19:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd guess it was True{Light,Brain}
19:33:44 <Eddi|zuHause> mortal: Tron was the guy who was also called "code police"
19:35:02 <peter1138> Nothing wrong with Code Police.
19:35:23 <mortal> I guess I oughta fetch the nightly code
19:35:28 <mortal> and set up some cronjob
19:35:55 <ln> peter1138: But for Tron the priority was to find out who did what wrong, fixing it was only second in importance.
19:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause> fixing things is not the job of the QM guy
19:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> finding things that are wrong is...
19:39:38 <Noldo> ln: how do you know his priorities?
19:41:41 <Belugas> Tron was very good at fixing broken stuff, and finding who did it is just part of the solution. Learning process. Like you do not make the same mistake twice
19:42:53 <Belugas> agreed he was not the type to send flower with the pot, just the pot.
19:43:16 <Belugas> but everyone has a personality
19:43:29 <Belugas> and i know mine is not an easy one either
19:45:01 <frosch123> but your reflexes on the R word are not as distinct as MB's on the O word :p
19:46:50 <Belugas> Let say i just can't stand when users are using the R word to put pressure on adding this or that feature
19:47:14 <Belugas> it's not an argument and i hpe it will never be
19:47:40 <Belugas> as to what drives MB on his Holy Crusade, well... i do not even wnat to know
19:50:19 <fonso> Forgive my curiosity ... I might be able to guess the R word, but what is the O word then?
19:50:58 <frosch123> in which channel are you?
19:53:39 <Belugas> obvious? naaaaa.. not the right word ;)
19:55:37 <peter1138> Prof_Frink, go and get me another beer? ta
19:55:54 * peter1138 reads back through the engine pool suggestions thread
19:56:20 <frosch123> cool, tell me when you found a 'suggestion'
20:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd assume 80% of the content there is flaming :)
20:01:35 <ln> src/terraform_cmd.cpp: * This affects all corners with a manhatten distance smaller than MAX_TILE_HEIGHT to one of the initial 4 corners.
20:01:49 <frosch123> reminds, me MB told he had send you a PM about that topic and complained you never replied
20:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> M-don't-pm-me-B?
20:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> ln: that's a correct "than"...
20:06:51 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but what is this manhatten distance?
20:07:45 <frosch123> yes, I thought you accidently pressed 'delete' or something like that :p
20:07:53 <Yorick> xdiff+ydiff for diagonal comparisons
20:08:11 <peter1138> Hmm, nope. I've never seen one from him.
20:08:31 <peter1138> And I've got almost everything going back to 2005 ;)
20:08:43 <fonso> your eyes' built in spam filter works well
20:09:03 <peter1138> Not really, as I did request it.
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20:10:12 <frosch123> "Tja. Peter hat das Feature vorher eben nicht ausreichend getestet und er hat es auch nicht für nötig gehalten, uns .grf-Entwickler dazu anzuhören. Ich selber habe ihm eine ausführliche Doku geschrieben aber nie eine Antwort darauf erhalten. Und ich sehe auch jetzt noch nicht, dass entsprechend unseren Anregungen entsprechende Änderungen vorgenommen werden. :|"
20:10:16 <peter1138> Unless he posted it while I was away, saw it was unread for a while, and then deleted it himself. I think that was before it was done, though.
20:13:54 <peter1138> Where did my PM go!
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20:15:16 <peter1138> Hmm well, there was no conclusion to that thread...
20:15:30 <peter1138> Apart from Rubidium wanting something totally generic :)
20:16:59 <frosch123> IIRC all grf authors that participated (i.e. mb and pikka) wanted to disallow any modifications by other grfs not explicitly mentioned in the original grf, i.e. making both the add-on sets of both authors invalid
20:17:07 <orudge> peter1138: I don't know!
20:17:10 <orudge> let me know if you find it!
20:17:22 <orudge> have you checked down the settee?
20:17:52 <peter1138> frosch123, but pikka wanted it extremely simple.
20:18:31 <frosch123> well, I would also believe pikka to update the original grf, so it knows of the modifiing one
20:23:52 <frosch123> IIRC the easiest solution was to add a 'public'/'protected' property to every vehicle, that tells whether a vehicle can be combined with every vehicle from every grf or only with those from the original grf or its children (those using "GRF ID overrides for engines (11)")
20:24:26 <frosch123> conbined with the 0xFFFF ID in the attach-wagon-callback
20:24:40 <glx> none of them replied to my suggestion
20:25:14 <frosch123> did anyone replied to a suggestion of someone else ?
20:26:55 <Tim> I'm just testing the CargoDest-Patch, it's awesome!
20:27:36 <glx> the only reference to my post is by OzTransLtd (but I don't like him)
20:27:56 <flaske> hey, guys, is there no large textbox input widget?
20:28:06 <Belugas> the comment or the guy? ^_^
20:28:28 <glx> the guy (and the idea he suggested in the comment)
20:28:32 <Belugas> flaske, no, not really
20:28:32 <Tim> One Question...: If i connect a coal mine to a powerplant and transport the coal to it, and then connect the mine to another power plant, there will be coal generated for each of the powerplants. However, is the TOTAL OUTPUT of the Coal Mine now higher, or is the coal which was in the beginning only transported to one powerplant now divided between the two of them?
20:29:04 <Belugas> granted, glx. It's a bit like "whatever is required, don't care"
20:29:18 <frosch123> glx: IMO it is problematic as it changes the meaning of the 'vehicle id' variable depending on another variable. I.e. it somewhat breaks existing grf.
20:29:29 <frosch123> So something like grf version 8 would be needed.
20:29:35 <Belugas> flaske, divided??? you are not making sens
20:29:55 <flaske> i was replying to Tim's question
20:31:24 <flaske> so, textboxes are a little tricky?
20:31:54 <Belugas> in fact, we've "discovered" today that the bridge cost in nfo is only at max 255, while it is a uint16 in Open. Withouth adding a cost2, which cannot be done, according to Oskar. so a new version would be a good thing
20:32:00 <Tim> Hm, then maybe take that as a suggestion for your cool patch :) I think the total output of the coal mine should be higher, if the coal is transported to multiple powerplants - else this system does not make too much sense, as connecting a second powerplant does not give you any advantages, but only disadvantages, like having more track, trains and stuff to manage
20:32:11 <Ammler> the "big" grf authors ignoring that it would be nice to add just a simple GRF like the empty engine for eyecandy...
20:32:25 <Belugas> flaske, it's just that we do not need large input widget...
20:32:48 <glx> Tim: that's totally unrelated to cargodest
20:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Tim: it does make sense when the power station has a stockpile limit
20:33:40 <flaske> Belugas I see, but I kinda did just now. Was going to make a "mission description" for the mission objectives im working on, in the scenario editor
20:34:17 <frosch123> <Belugas> in fact, we've "discovered" today that the bridge cost in nfo is only at max 255, <- the 'traditional' sollution would be to add another byte property for the high byte
20:34:18 <Belugas> flaske: ho... well... that would be something that your patch will have to bring in ;)
20:34:30 <Eddi|zuHause> flaske: you might want to make a grf spec instead, so people can provide the strings via grf
20:34:44 <flaske> hehe, yeah thanks tho :)
20:34:52 <Belugas> frosch123, granted, but FF is already an accepted value
20:35:01 <flaske> thanks Eddi|zuHause, good idea
20:35:07 <frosch123> no, not an extended byte
20:35:11 <frosch123> i.e. like vehicle weight
20:35:40 <frosch123> 24 (c) B High byte of vehicle weight, weight will be prop.24*256+prop.16
20:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "adding a cost2 [...] cannot be done, according to Oskar."
20:37:13 * GoneWacko slaps Sionide and runs off giggling
20:37:52 <frosch123> Well, I would expect Oskar to have a lot more clue about TTDP than me, but if it cannot be done with a 'high byte' property, why should it be possible by incrementing the grf version?
20:42:31 <ln> coming soon on this channel: commit of the patch of the month. stay tuned.
20:42:36 <Eddi|zuHause> "Nicht erläuterte Details können direkt im Sourcecode gefunden werden." <- that's a totally great statement :p
20:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ("Details that are not described [in the documentation] can be read from the source code.")
20:46:17 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: sounds almost as good as the draft of some finnish idiot's doctoral thesis, where e.g. "Google et al." was used as a reference for some claims.
20:47:19 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: sounds like what Brianetta once said. It was something like "the source code is like a manual, except it has all details and fewer pictures"
20:49:42 *** Marduuhin has joined #openttd
20:50:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ... we lost him again to qdb :(
20:52:35 <Bjarni> I saw a beluga whale on the news today. Some Chinese boy was sitting on the back of it during some show or something
20:53:14 <Bjarni> he was 4 years old and had done that for a year
20:53:22 <glx> Bjarni: a beluga is not a whale
20:53:32 <Sacro> has he not read Moby Dick
21:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the fly-swatter of the 21st century :=
21:05:20 <peter1138> Hmm, half-tile foundations drawn properly... on land.
21:15:37 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it's a patented "bug frier"
21:15:46 <Bjarni> then you can listen to what they say about it and enlighten me. It stalled half way though it so I haven't seen the whole thing yet
21:16:49 <glx> I'm not very good at english listening
21:17:04 <Bjarni> now it started and stalled again
21:17:13 <Bjarni> at the same place as last time
21:18:01 <Bjarni> "he asked his grandmother if he could swim with it".... and that's the end of it >_<
21:20:24 <Bjarni> and now the rest of it appeared in a few sec
21:28:45 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
21:32:00 <peter1138> Okay, I fixed the crashing bug... by removing a bit of code...
21:35:53 <fjb> Removing all the code fixes all the bugs.
21:36:19 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
21:37:15 <Bjarni> banning everybody in here will remove the bad ideas
21:38:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i have my doubts that this will actually work :p
21:42:00 *** Amixbook has joined #openttd
21:45:08 <peter1138> Gah, stupid sprites
21:52:11 <peter1138> It's now drawing them at the correct place... but under the foundation :(
21:53:53 <fjb> It hides them so nobody sees the mistakes it makes.
21:58:56 <peter1138> I guess I need to use AddSortable everywhere :o
22:00:43 *** Progman has joined #openttd
22:01:06 <Rubidium> just cache the whole thing with foundations and all and use that as single sprite ;)
22:03:44 <peter1138> Oh for fucks sake...
22:04:07 <peter1138> Using AddSortable, it's at the right place... but above the white/red selection square :o
22:08:42 <peter1138> Unless I need AddChildSpriteToFoundation :o
22:13:25 <Prof_Frink> peter1138: They rang last orders.
22:15:24 <peter1138> Oh, that's no good.
22:15:41 <peter1138> If I draw it 8 pixels too low, it shows above the foundation.
22:15:51 <peter1138> If I draw it in the right place, it is below the foundation.
22:31:01 *** dragonhorseboy has joined #openttd
22:32:33 <dragonhorseboy> do some trains have like 2+ articulated sets in one consist? (rather than being one long single set throughly)
22:38:55 <Bjarni> you mean if it's possible that an articulated engine can be longer than two units?
22:39:19 <Bjarni> or if two articulated engines can be put in the same train?
22:39:51 <Bjarni> you know answering a question is way easier if you understand the question itself ;)
22:41:03 <dragonhorseboy> heh sorry I meant just articulated cars alone
22:41:11 <dragonhorseboy> (independent locomotive that is)
22:41:51 <peter1138> Bjarni, dragonhorseboy never talks about the game, only real or model railways.
22:43:13 <valhallasw> peter1138: well, try drawing it 4 pixels too low? :D
22:47:37 <Eddi|zuHause> dragonhorseboy: if you are talking about real railways, then that happens very often...
22:47:52 <peter1138> AddChildSpriteToFoundation() works... just... ugly :o
22:49:01 <dragonhorseboy> eddi hm thanks .. I could imagine that having several short sets than one single long one probably makes it easier to repair them because of not having to can the whole train over one bad axle. dunno much myself tho ^_^
22:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> dragonhorseboy: some ICE3 go in double most of the way, and then get split into 2 for the last bit, so they end up in different cities
22:51:02 <dragonhorseboy> ah hmm yeah that kind of mode works too
22:51:20 <Eddi|zuHause> or 425/435/435/425 consists may be driven in double traction, to increase capacity during high load times
22:51:35 <dragonhorseboy> hm on related note I do know some north america trains had one/several rdc's on the tail that would get dropped off at certain stops to go their own way
22:51:35 <dragonhorseboy> (not articulated but still)
22:54:19 <dragonhorseboy> hm well thanks eddi
22:56:30 *** SpComb was kicked by DorpsGek (Don't poke me)
22:58:23 <SpComb> taking it personally, eh
22:58:37 <SpComb> kicking someone is no trivial matter :(
23:05:42 <Bjarni> they really make those
23:05:52 <Bjarni> but naturally I can't find a side view :(
23:07:41 <Lakie> Each unit looks fairly small though
23:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that branch underneath the train doesn't look very used
23:07:48 <Lakie> (Compared to say a carrage)
23:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, looks like it's not longer than a 425
23:10:34 <Bjarni> <Lakie> Each unit looks fairly small though <-- yeah, one set of 8 units is supposed to stop at the marker for a 4 wagon long train xD
23:10:52 <Bjarni> meaning each unit if half the length of the train they replace
23:11:13 <Bjarni> but I guess they have to have fairly small units since each unit only has one axle
23:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that's about what i meant
23:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause> one axle? no double axles?
23:12:09 <Bjarni> the end unit in one end has two
23:12:12 <Lakie> Durely the last one would have a double or something?
23:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound like a too bright idea
23:12:33 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound like a too bright idea <-- why not?
23:12:55 <Bjarni> they only derailed once due to the low number of axles
23:13:21 <Bjarni> the train was rather new at the time and then they changed something
23:13:25 <Bjarni> and ever since it just worked
23:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> single axles are known to provide less comfort while driving
23:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the transmission of forces is more direct, than when you have double axles
23:14:33 <Bjarni> it's also known to be a financial good solution as wear and resistance is lower
23:15:19 <Bjarni> but yes usually I prefer regular bogie wagons
23:15:30 <Bjarni> when it comes to comfort
23:16:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the 425 has double axles as connector between parts (like TGV)
23:17:09 <Bjarni> depending on track condition it could be a better solution
23:20:16 <Bjarni> I just made it sound like we have good tracks
23:21:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i did not really understand that statement either :p
23:26:17 <Bjarni> and goes from 0 to 100 km/h in 48 sec
23:50:15 <dragonhorseboy> thats three quit/enter already
continue to next day ⏵
