IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-06-20
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00:01:39 <ben_goodger> the solution might be to get more developers
00:01:52 <ben_goodger> debian has I don't know how many hundred of them
00:02:11 <ben_goodger> it saves a lot of work for the project's founder...
00:02:40 <ccfreak2k> How is it a "solution" when there's no problem?
00:16:01 <ccfreak2k> Compiz disabled the application key.
00:16:01 <ccfreak2k> Rather, it unbound the key from KDE/X11.
00:16:02 <ccfreak2k> So now I don't have the Application key shortcuts anymore.
00:16:26 <ben_goodger> it's good at that
00:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the word "incidentally" does not make any sense in this context
00:26:22 <ben_goodger> it's a non-word inserted for interest.
00:29:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "non-words" is a concept unknown to germans
00:30:09 <ben_goodger> well, imagine if someone said to you "I'm sorry to bother you, but would you please consider closing the window if it's not too much trouble?" without being sarcastic.
00:30:30 <ben_goodger> all of that besides "close the window please" are non-words in this context
00:31:29 <SmatZ> "close, window" are enough
00:31:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the closest to "non-words" a german has is "naja", "übrigens" and "beziehungsweise"
00:31:42 <ben_goodger> please is the minimum required for basic politeness
00:31:49 <ben_goodger> what do those mean?
00:32:10 <SmatZ> maybe even "WINDOW!" if you shout it really loudly
00:32:11 <ben_goodger> I'd love an opportunity to shout "beziehunsweise" really loudly
00:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: i actually get away with "cold!"
00:32:17 <SmatZ> everyone will understand he should close it
00:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> with the right emphasis ;)
00:33:05 <ben_goodger> what do you think of the damned website? :P
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00:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> and germans are very careful with the word "please"
00:35:01 <ben_goodger> because bitte means "you're welcome" also?
00:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, just in general ;)
00:35:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> in england, people also say please when they actually mean "fuck off"
00:36:06 <ccfreak2k> Don't you mean "piss off"?
00:36:19 <ben_goodger> SmatZ: thank you. any further comment?
00:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, "piss off" is even a closer translation of the german word ;)
00:37:11 <ben_goodger> no trouble there...
00:37:26 <SmatZ> ben_goodger: I like sites that don't use many images, I like blue and yellow, and also it looks fine with 1600x1200 resolution
00:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> and "bitte" can also mean "are you insane?"
00:39:18 <ben_goodger> the MIME problem we will have to live with, because internet explorer attempts to download anything served as application/xml+xhtml
00:39:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> i hate pages which have a fixed width and don't scale with screen width
00:40:14 <ben_goodger> eddi|zuHause2: you are not aware of the problems posed by very wide text lines?
00:40:59 <ben_goodger> the site does scale with screen width
00:41:01 <SmatZ> it is bad to have page at 1/4 of width of my monitor
00:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> thanks for your support anyway ;)
00:41:37 <ben_goodger> the left hand yellow bit simply does not increase beyond 65 characters per line as this means it becomes unreadable
00:41:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> ben_goodger: not the "news" part, which contains the actually relevant text
00:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> ben_goodger: not everyone uses 10pt font
00:42:21 <ben_goodger> ...oh, you mean it fails to scale with font size?
00:43:10 <ben_goodger> it shouldn't scale with screen size, as that will make it too wide to read
00:43:19 <ben_goodger> but I will see whether I can't make it scale with the font size.
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01:39:12 <Belugas> mmh... a sleeping ghost :S
01:43:45 <SmoKeyy> making trains over my busses
01:43:54 <SmoKeyy> and putting up signs blocking ships
01:45:33 <Belugas> at this time? peter1138 is quite sleepy, i think, Pikka :)
01:46:19 <Belugas> for a guy that has to wake up early and get to the office, i guess it's still time to sleep :P
01:46:37 <Belugas> not everyone have the "chance" of still been a student
01:48:19 <SmoKeyy> instead i've played ottd 18 hours str8
01:48:32 <Belugas> dirt is supposed to be dealt with a vacuum cleaner...
01:49:10 <Belugas> it's just... short :P
01:49:23 <SmoKeyy> i'm not using abreviations to be c00lzorzorous
01:49:37 <SmoKeyy> i'm using them CUZ im tired
01:50:10 <SmoKeyy> c00lzorzorouslicious*
01:50:38 <SmoKeyy> 3 more minutes till my porn movie is over
01:50:42 <SmoKeyy> so i can wank off and get some sleep
01:50:55 <SmoKeyy> till i get my stuff prepared
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01:52:24 <Belugas> good luck withg the exams ntils then
01:55:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13590 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Enumification of the Save/Load menu items
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07:23:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13591 /trunk/src/engine_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Support CB36 in the vehicle offer window.
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09:37:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> "how to say 'convenient' in german" - "The Germans don’t have a word for this concept, just like we don’t have 'Schadenfreude'" :p
09:37:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> ['we' refers to an american here]
09:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> when you laugh about someone who had bad luck or made a mistake ;)
09:45:20 <Gekz> Yes, most Germans eat with fork and knife, though in Bavaria they just use finger and knife.
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09:47:46 * Hendikins snickers at the last one
09:47:51 <Hendikins> what do germans taste like
09:47:51 <Hendikins> A lot like chicken, I would guess.
09:52:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> what troubles me the most is that someone must actually have typed that into google :)
09:53:26 <Mchl> if i learn german, will i ever actually use it?
09:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, read the "don't learn german" article ;)
09:54:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> (on the right, the "most popular" section)
09:56:55 <Zahl> omg i cant stop laughing
09:59:22 <Mchl> hmmm... we also have three genders here...
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10:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a slavic language, that doesn't count ;)
10:12:46 <Zahl> i like how he translated the gender table there
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12:07:54 <planetmaker> I saw one recently. But that was in Berlin and probably another ;)
12:08:26 <Doorslammer> I have seen no plug ugly planes around, sorry :)
12:08:49 <planetmaker> maybe another year then :P
12:10:42 <Doorslammer> Maybe cry for him instead :S
12:11:25 <fjb> Hm, what time of day is it in Canada right now?
12:14:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> dih: he appears typically around 15:15
12:14:47 <dih> just like... uh... europe?
12:16:05 <fjb> Belugas is Canadian, that's why I asked.
12:16:48 <dih> yes, but you are understanding that asking for 'time in canada' is a very unprecise question
12:18:10 <fjb> It may be unprecise, but it can give a hint when you can expect him to be around here.
12:18:52 <dih> so 1400 (CEST) -5 too early? NOPE
12:19:03 <dih> and i know that he lives in canada
12:19:33 <dih> so unless you can point out a more precise timezone, it's not very helpful
12:19:53 <Doorslammer> Good grief, dont ask for much do you?
12:21:16 <dih> and where is that too much?
12:21:59 <Doorslammer> Well hes only giving an approximation
12:22:14 <dih> yep, with a range of 7 hours
12:22:35 <dih> which fits' 'Belugas should be here' and 'Belugas will not be here for another 5 hours'
12:23:53 <Doorslammer> Well, maybe he should have just ignored you
12:24:08 <dih> or thought about it befor saying it :-P
12:24:14 <dih> would have helped too :-P
12:24:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> and Belugas should be -6 hours from here
12:25:07 <Doorslammer> Belugas is not here and we dont have a foogiest idea when he will be
12:25:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it could be -7, not sure
12:25:15 <dih> see - that's a more precise answer! thanks Eddi
12:25:30 <Doorslammer> Good grief, is it?
12:25:41 <dih> Doorslammer: then consider yourself as 'NOT ASKED'
12:25:53 <dih> if you dont know the answer just ignoer it!
12:26:04 <Doorslammer> You didnt know the answer either
12:28:29 <Mchl> hey! no physical abuse here! :P
12:28:36 * dih ignores *!Doorslamme@*.tmns.net.au
12:31:06 <dih> it's a shame this channel is filling with the 'user' type people from the forums :-P
12:33:03 <Mchl> oh come on... random chat is random chat... no need to get emotional
12:35:22 <Doorslammer> Well its the height of rudeness of bothering people if they dont give you the answer they look for
12:48:28 <Doorslammer> Still no reason to throw pots and pans about like a girl
12:48:48 <dih> Eddi: i once had a chat with 2 girls from america, aske where they were from... 'america!'
12:48:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean... you read too much into it, Doorslammer...
12:49:04 <dih> c'mon: that's just as good had i said 'im from europe'
12:49:27 <dih> most unprecise responses ever
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12:51:00 <Belugas> [08:22] <Doorslammer> Belugas is not here and we dont have a foogiest idea when he will be <--- proof that he does not know me that much :P
12:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> you're early :p
12:52:04 <Belugas> for all to know : i'm "here" from 9 to 5, monday to friday, GMT-5 ( i think)
13:00:39 <planetmaker> 6 hours a day, 5 days a week doesn't sound too bad :)
13:01:02 * planetmaker should take some extra class in calculus...
13:01:04 <dih> he's slacking... look at it!
13:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> <dih> most unprecise responses ever <-- well, they COULD have said "Earth", "Solar System" or "Universe" instead :p
13:02:59 * dih was not sure that would have been a correct answer with those girls :-P
13:06:38 <Mchl> they could answer: 'from here"
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13:47:10 <dih> would it be a lot of work to increase the grf limit (quick guesstimate)?
13:49:00 <Mchl> someone did it on forums IIRC
13:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean it's not a #define MAX_GRFS 30
13:50:01 <dih> i am asking because i am kinda wondering if there is more than just that to it
13:50:44 <dih> thanks Mchl, but we would not have to worry about that
13:50:51 <dih> i am considering this for wwottdgd
13:51:12 <Mchl> that's all I know about the issue :)
13:51:15 <dih> which is a build of openttd for a single event lasting about 24-36 hours
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14:08:28 <TiberiusTeng> dih, if you're increasing LAST_GRF_SLOT and MAX_GRF_SLOTS, be sure to modify PNG_SLOT in png.cpp as well.
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14:08:53 <TiberiusTeng> (I always do that to load ~200 GRFs ...
14:09:41 <dih> TiberisTeng: do you have a working patch?
14:10:12 <dih> if you do, could you join #wwottdgd ;-)
14:10:49 <TiberiusTeng> It's mererly 2 lines, I don't think it needs a patch :p
14:10:56 <glx> hmm there's a slot for sound IIRC
14:11:24 <dih> and there is a constant for the number of file pointser openttd (can) handle(s)
14:11:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe that should be unified somehow ;)
14:11:33 <SmatZ> CONFIG_SLOT SOUND_SLOT PNG_SLOT
14:11:38 <TiberiusTeng> SOUND_SLOT = 1, FIRST_GRF_SLOT = 2
14:11:55 <SmatZ> why isn't PNG_SLOT in fios.h :-x
14:12:11 <TiberiusTeng> CONFIG_SLOT = 0 so that's okay too ... I don't know why PNG_SLOT at last
14:12:25 <TiberiusTeng> maybe it need a completely dynamic file number allocation scheme (?)
14:12:50 <SmatZ> glx: still, it can be under #if defined(WITH_PNG) ...
14:17:32 <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: I played yesterday around with the newgrf window and various grfs.
14:17:49 <planetmaker> It's not an issue of a particular grf that that patch doesn't work for me...
14:18:28 <planetmaker> But I'm not quite sure how to produce good debug output...
14:19:09 <ccfreak2k> Are there even 200 newGRFs?
14:19:28 <planetmaker> ccfreak2k: I'd guess you can reach that number, if you shop around
14:24:35 <TiberiusTeng> planetmaker, original NewGRF window doesn't have this issue ?
14:24:56 <fjb> When expanding one station so that it touches another station, is there a way to decide which of the two station the expansion belongs to? Or that simply not possible?
14:24:58 <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: no, that works
14:25:08 <planetmaker> fjb: not possible
14:25:39 * planetmaker goes checking again
14:27:03 <TiberiusTeng> that's really strange ... perhaps I messed up some pointers in newgrf_gui.cpp, because there isn't any malloc/free stuff in it
14:27:17 <TiberiusTeng> but it do trigger some malloc elsewhere
14:27:43 <TiberiusTeng> s/trigger/tripped/
14:28:00 <planetmaker> the final message I get is "bus error"
14:28:11 <planetmaker> whatever that means...
14:29:36 <TiberiusTeng> I believe almost the same as segmentation fault
14:31:22 <planetmaker> I guess, if I had at least _some_ proficiency with dbg, it would help...
14:33:10 <TiberiusTeng> I think Xcode have some debugging functionality ...
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14:35:17 <TiberiusTeng> or give me a VNC access to that Mac computer with patched OTTD ... is this a viable solution? :p
14:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: once upon a time the distant-join patch had a window for choosing the station to extend
14:35:33 <Belugas> Mogwai - I Know You Are But What Am I?
14:37:16 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: Thank you. But I know that patch. My question was about the unpatched game. I thought about kind of embedding one station into another.
14:43:59 <fjb> It would mainly have been an eyecandy thing anyway.
14:44:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> but yes, a feature like this is definitely missing
14:47:42 <Belugas> station into another one?? an Eye Candy???
14:49:11 <fjb> A coal and an iron ore station, optically one station with different piles of coal and iron ore. :)
14:50:34 <fjb> Why? Would have been looking nice.
14:51:20 <Belugas> can it be done by grf?
14:51:39 <Belugas> but code wise, it does not make sens
14:51:54 <planetmaker> [16:35] <TiberiusTeng> or give me a VNC access to that Mac computer with patched OTTD ... is this a viable solution? :p <--- hehe :) I think I better learn to debug :)
14:53:00 <fjb> What I read there is a problem when one kind of tile (the pile) has to show different kinds of minerals. Only one for a station can be shown. So you get only black or brown piles.
14:53:25 <planetmaker> Belugas: two adjacent stations with different cargo make sense from a routing point of view
14:54:04 <planetmaker> and sometimes it happens/ed that stations grow together :)
14:54:17 <fjb> That is the other problem.
14:54:32 <fjb> Yes, stations tend to grow.
14:55:09 <TiberiusTeng> I'm not sure how to compile OTTD with debug information ... ./configure --enable-debug ?
14:55:10 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13592 /trunk/src/bridge_gui.cpp: -Fix: window size remembering was broken
14:55:45 <planetmaker> Belugas: grow = required extensions due to increased traffic demands
14:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can put two stations next to each other, you just have to destroy the second station and build it completely new
14:55:53 * Belugas wonders if he uses the same game...
14:55:54 <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: yes, that works for me
14:55:58 <TiberiusTeng> make && gdb ./openttd
14:56:09 <Belugas> than don';t say GROW!
14:56:18 <TiberiusTeng> when it crashes you'll drop into gdb
14:56:22 <Belugas> a city grows, a plant grows
14:56:32 <TiberiusTeng> to see backtrack, variables, etc.
14:57:01 <planetmaker> :) Hey, I'm not a native speaker. extended would be the right word then
14:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> then don't say GO! ;p
14:58:47 <fjb> He ran away from our ideas.
14:58:48 <TiberiusTeng> planetmaker, I think 'backtrace (bt)', 'frame (f)', 'list' will be the first 3 commands you'll need in gdb. good luck. ;)
14:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, i think "run" would be the first :p
14:59:59 <TiberiusTeng> Eddi|zuHause2, you got me :p
15:02:03 * TiberiusTeng context-switches back to opengl branch
15:02:07 <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: will do. But first it has to crash now. That takes time... which the computer does *something*
15:02:09 <fjb> What happened to the distand join stations patch? Did it have design issues?
15:02:21 <TiberiusTeng> planetmaker, take your time :p
15:02:24 <planetmaker> fjb: just grab it :) It works
15:03:15 <planetmaker> I think the latest update is by TiberiusTeng, but it still even applies to current trunk
15:04:19 <fjb> Hm, I don't like to always patch anything. Ok, I'm always using YAPP.
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15:11:09 <ccfreak2k> TiberiusTeng, where's my debug build? :(
15:11:56 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, what do you mean?
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15:14:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: i believe it's mostly about convincing the devs that the feature is good, balanced and necessary
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15:15:41 <fjb> Hm, yes, maybe limiting the join distance to about 5 tiles or something like that.
15:15:58 <glx> isn't this patch the one showing a station list to chose in?
15:17:20 <fjb> What is the problem there? The cached station list?
15:17:59 <glx> the problem is you create the list on your client and another client can remove a station
15:18:19 <fjb> So the server has to manage the list.
15:19:49 <SmatZ> the command can fail then
15:20:19 <planetmaker> oh... hm. Should I remove it from wwottdgd?
15:22:01 <fjb> Then you will have to select the station to expand first. Like giving orders to vehicles.
15:23:21 <fjb> That would work without the station selection window.
15:24:23 <ccfreak2k> TiberiusTeng, didn't you say you were going to make a opengl build for me or something?
15:27:01 <glx> you should have seen a message box with "Out of memory. Cannot allocate 564 bytes"
15:28:40 <glx> but your OS failed to allocate memory for the message box
15:29:09 <Gekz> it crashed at school, and the error was
15:29:38 <planetmaker> I didn't see that message. But it shouldn't be a memory problem from "hardware too limited" :)
15:30:06 <glx> anyway the stack trace tells that
15:30:31 <planetmaker> glx: yes, that I see. But I don't understand as it only happens with the newgrf window patch.
15:30:34 <SmatZ> "Out of memory. Cannot allocate 564 bytes", message=0x178564 "See readme for more info\nMost likely you are missing files from the original TTD"
15:30:43 <SmatZ> isn';t the text a bit misleading?
15:30:54 <glx> it's OSX, I don't care ;)
15:31:20 <glx> but indeed all message boxes have this extra text for OSX
15:36:41 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, yes, and I'm still working on it :(
15:37:33 <TiberiusTeng> wait, Out of memory?!
15:39:05 <TiberiusTeng> seems that trace is not very helpful ... hmm
15:39:49 <TiberiusTeng> CopyGRFConfigList ... ok.
15:42:34 <planetmaker> hm... it has to be somewhere there. It happens, whenever I click on "apply changes" to the grf list selector
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15:52:08 <TiberiusTeng> ahh! time for Candy Boy ep02
16:00:01 <TiberiusTeng> ep02 (japanese) just went online @ NicoVideo
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16:11:03 <peter1138> replace "tw" with your country code to make it usable :p
16:11:32 <peter1138> anime is so tedious
16:14:07 <TiberiusTeng> planetmaker, did you drag-drop or used the add button ?
16:14:29 <TiberiusTeng> I'm still looking for any suspicious memory access ...
16:14:58 <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: I tried without changing anything (with both, grfs already selected due to openttd.cfg and none) and with the arrow button
16:15:02 <planetmaker> I didn't try drag
16:15:42 <planetmaker> the result is the same
16:16:07 <planetmaker> I can swap the names fine between the windows. The button apply triggers it
16:22:27 <TiberiusTeng> the accessing/modifying code is almost verbatim copy of original, and the crash point is MallocT complaining out of memory ... I'm puzzled.
16:22:41 <TiberiusTeng> seems you should remove this patch before the problem get solved :(
16:23:33 <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: hm... yeah. Sad as it is, I tend to agree. I also don't find a clue whatsoever...
16:24:00 <TiberiusTeng> ahh. wait a second.
16:24:06 <TiberiusTeng> sel_l didn't get initialized!
16:25:00 <TiberiusTeng> don't know if that's the problem though
16:25:30 <TiberiusTeng> since I can't test & reproduce the situation here. try add this->sel_l = NULL in NewGRFWindow() just above where it initializes sel_r and see how it goes?
16:45:48 <planetmaker> I'll raise my level of bloodsugar now and then I'll have another look
16:46:27 <Belugas> fun to see you guys debugging :)
16:47:58 <TiberiusTeng> I really wish someone have Mac and expertise in debugging can lend us a hand ~_~
16:48:53 <Belugas> and time, don't forget time...
16:49:31 *** planetmaker is now known as planetmaker|away
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17:02:56 * eekee has a mac; plans to be around in a couple of hours to help with debugging
17:04:36 *** planetmaker|away is now known as planetmaker
17:11:24 <TiberiusTeng> I still can't see how it crashes without doing anything before clicking 'Apply' after opening the window ... ahh
17:11:37 <TiberiusTeng> maybe I should put it around for a while
17:22:03 <TiberiusTeng> ahh ... don't tell me for (); and for () {} differs
17:26:39 <blathijs> TiberiusTeng: Differs in what?
17:27:26 <TiberiusTeng> for (c = nw->list; c != NULL && i > 0; c = c->next, i--) {}
17:27:28 <TiberiusTeng> for (c = nw->list; c != NULL && i > 0; c = c->next, i--);
17:32:11 <blathijs> That shouldn't be compiled differently I guess
17:32:34 <blathijs> But you are seeing a difference?
17:32:37 <TiberiusTeng> planetmaker, you got more than 256 newgrf's ? just found another nasty spot using uint8 to count newgrf's ...
17:33:03 <TiberiusTeng> in SetupNewGRFWindow() // heh, not written by me actually -_-
17:33:14 <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: no, just a few
17:33:28 <planetmaker> hm... wait, also on the not loaded side?
17:35:01 <TiberiusTeng> it's just annoying when the place crashed =/= the place screwed it up ...
17:36:36 <TiberiusTeng> the counter should only affect scrolling bar size
17:37:52 <planetmaker> I'll check with less grf (moving my data dir)
17:39:38 <TiberiusTeng> how about opening the window -> close? (not clicking 'Apply')
17:40:39 <planetmaker> will try, too. I'm just recompiling
17:49:41 <planetmaker> but don't ask me why.
17:50:32 <planetmaker> seems like the svn files were somehow seriously borked and revert and up didn't help anymore....
17:50:37 <planetmaker> sorry for wasting your time :(
17:51:44 <TiberiusTeng> what works? and how works?
17:51:54 <TiberiusTeng> or it JUST WORKS(tm)? XD
17:53:15 <TiberiusTeng> I'm almost digging into MacOS' malloc debugging ... google("can't allocate region") have many interesting posts about various softwares ...
17:53:53 <planetmaker> it just works :). The svn checkout I had been using must have *something* strange, which didn't go away with svn up and / or svn revert to other / similar / same version
17:54:23 <planetmaker> may I hand you some nice, cool guiness?
17:55:53 <planetmaker> lesson learnt: if it doesn't work, take new dir, new co and try the same again... don't just do a clean revert.
17:56:11 <TiberiusTeng> it's a nice lesson ...
17:56:36 <planetmaker> I wished it had been less frustrating and time consuming... especially as it also consumed yours and not mine...
17:57:10 * planetmaker wonders how much lauging is going on behind the scenes.... :)
17:57:44 <TiberiusTeng> so ... ccfreak2k, seems my promise (?) will be delay for another ... day? :p
17:58:05 <planetmaker> :) have a good night, TiberiusTeng :) And thx a lot
17:58:56 <TiberiusTeng> nah, I contributed nothing on this incident ...
17:59:14 <TiberiusTeng> I'll update those nasty variables and make another diff tomorrow, at least
17:59:32 <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: you did. You may just not feel like :)
18:02:06 <glx> <TiberiusTeng> ahh ... don't tell me for (); and for () {} differs <-- the first one gives a warning in gcc 4
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18:06:58 <Touqen> the first is probably a bug
18:18:09 <Phoenix_the_II> does openttd support OSS4?
18:18:40 <Phoenix_the_II> Open Sound System
18:18:59 <Rubidium> if SDL does, then yes, if it doesn't, then no
18:19:14 <Phoenix_the_II> ok, thats a good enough hint :D
18:24:16 <Prof_Frink> Obsolete Sound System?
18:26:48 <Phoenix_the_II> I'm the lucky guy wanting to get sound out of my X-Fi
18:26:55 <Phoenix_the_II> and can only use OSS4
18:27:15 <eekee> hmm I'd have got an x-fi if I could
18:28:36 <peter1138> intel hda works great for me :D
18:28:58 <Belugas> boring VERY BORING users!!
18:29:12 <eekee> not quite good enough for me. I put my old SB live in my comp. It's not fault-free, but it's better
18:29:54 <peter1138> i have my sb live in too
18:29:57 <peter1138> but it's unused, heh
18:30:01 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: A better reason would be the exploit I've found in the newgrf code.
18:30:17 <Phoenix_the_II> i got a sb live aswell :P
18:31:16 <peter1138> i put it in for the game/midi port
18:31:35 <peter1138> but turned out i don't need it, and that bit isn't supported under vista anyway
18:31:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
18:33:53 <planetmaker> don't you consider it a nice feature, Belugas?
18:33:58 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: My carefully crafted GRF that takes over people's computers.
18:35:18 <planetmaker> if you point me to a better place to collect random ideas which might be nice for OpenTTD, I'll also gladly use that :)
18:37:39 <Belugas> planetmaker, if a user does not know what grf this or that comes from, he just used anything and dumped it in his game
18:37:57 <Belugas> so, not going to supoprt laziness
18:38:19 <Belugas> if it is really required, just caetea agame and one after the other, test the grfs
18:38:30 <Belugas> that is.. quite silly, in my humble opinion
18:38:34 <planetmaker> Belugas: in multiplayer the people who build something are often not around and it is way faster to just check a tile
18:38:52 <planetmaker> it's definitely not about lazyness.
18:40:07 <peter1138> if it's not lazyness, go implement it :D
18:40:55 <SmatZ> planetmaker: hehe I several times wanted to code that
18:41:06 <planetmaker> I fear messing around with the for me so far incomprehensible code wrt grfs :)
18:41:16 <SmatZ> problem is probably that "static" structure of TileInfo
18:41:28 <SmatZ> probably it would need to be more dynamic
18:42:04 <planetmaker> hm... cannot say I understand that entirely. A tile has to know what's built on it, doesn't it?
18:42:24 <SmatZ> but the structure you are filling the info to
18:42:29 <planetmaker> but at this point: I haven't looked at the graphics data structure...
18:42:51 <SmatZ> so you could either add "GRF name" and "additional GRF text"
18:43:19 <SmatZ> so it returns pairs of "title" and "value"
18:43:34 <planetmaker> there's no such thing as a lookup table like: tile xy has graphics ab which belongs to set mn ?
18:43:40 <SmatZ> planetmaker: anyway, bugs.openttd.org is the place for feature requests
18:44:12 <SmatZ> there is not such a table
18:44:18 <planetmaker> :) I considered posting it there. But I figured it might be better to gather some community feedback first :)
18:44:45 <planetmaker> and keep the officiality-level a bit lower :)
18:46:25 <Belugas> my feedback is known : BEURK!
18:47:37 <SmatZ> Belugas: don't you like that?
18:47:50 <planetmaker> he. I think there's no need for me to look up the meaning of "beurk" :)
18:48:10 <SmatZ> so, Belugas doesn't like it, it won't be implemented, sorry
18:48:10 <Belugas> i'm sorry to be rude,
18:48:29 <Belugas> but since we are asked on and on to comment, i do, and soory for the colateral damages
18:48:40 <Belugas> not by me, at least, SmatZ
18:49:29 <planetmaker> Belugas: that's why I didn't put it to flyspray. Maybe some motivated person likes it and implements it decently :)
18:49:53 <Belugas> to be honest, I would be VERY surprised
18:50:03 <planetmaker> honestly: me to :)
18:50:09 <planetmaker> but hope dies last :)
18:50:13 <SmatZ> well there isn't question if anyone codes that
18:50:14 <Belugas> and i do not talk ONLY abut the "decently" part...
18:50:20 <SmatZ> but if it will be implemented in trunk
18:50:34 <planetmaker> two questions, indeed.
18:51:11 <planetmaker> or rather three: who? how? acceptable for trunk?
18:52:07 <planetmaker> for me it's - as written - very low priority, but nice-to-have feature
18:53:23 <planetmaker> I'll play happily with and without :)
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19:07:52 * Mchl wonders if it is possible to have buildings from two grfs on one tile
19:08:29 <peter1138> possibly eventually
19:08:32 <peter1138> well, objects anyway
19:08:46 <SmatZ> hehe you may replace some sprites of a building
19:08:57 <peter1138> a station from foo on a rail type from bar
19:08:59 <Mchl> I can have a train on a station
19:09:01 <SmatZ> but that would look weird
19:09:43 <Mchl> and a bridge from one set over road from another...
19:10:03 <Mchl> but I think no two building ATM
19:13:42 <frosch123> do you consider a house from one grf, using the grass ground sprites from default grfs (or some landscape grf), as a house from two grfs?
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19:15:16 <SmatZ> frosch123: and foundation for another GRF
19:15:24 <planetmaker> only, if I'd be a grasshopper. Then I could build a flat out of grass,too. But then I'd have to look out for frogs ;)
19:50:15 <SpComb> meh, this YAPP OpenTTD game is just desyncing every other minute :(
19:51:29 <Belugas> with or without grfs?
19:52:10 <ecke> i used TiPP and have problem with trams .... tram was stoped on the road and when i clikc on it i see it in garage on the other side of map
19:52:43 <Belugas> so, in other words, it can be grfs as well as YAPP...
19:52:45 <SpComb> recently loaded the savegame via singleplayer and added in a tram NewGRF
19:53:13 <SpComb> yeah, I'm not surprised either
19:53:40 <Rubidium> SpComb: using any of the canadian GRFs?
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19:55:32 <Rubidium> then I've got no real idea, except that clients might be using static NewGRFs causing troubl
19:56:37 <Rubidium> is it easily reproducable when you reload the game in the server?
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20:03:42 <pavel1269> i dont think YAPP can cause dasync since i play with it for a long time (just three long games, but still) and no problem
20:04:03 <SpComb> perhaps it's the loading-newgrfs-in-midgame that's causing it then
20:04:48 <eekee> what address does flyspray send email from?
20:07:11 <eekee> ah nvm the email just took time to come
20:11:07 <Belugas> never a good idea, SpComb. never
20:41:20 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13593 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2095](r13524): sorting by cargo capacity was broken
20:47:28 <eekee> SmatZ: awesome service, thanks, lol
20:54:40 <planetmaker> he, yeah. 10 minutes to late to make it into the next wwottdgd test run
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21:14:22 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r13594 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp date_func.h date_type.h newgrf.cpp): -Feature(ette)[FS#2093]: Supply newgrfs with 'day of month', 'leap year' and 'day of year'.
21:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> no fancy "Support of variable XY"??
21:20:15 *** svippery is now known as svip
21:20:28 <svip> So, Eddi|zuHause2, when are you releasing the text-based version of openttd?
21:20:55 <Bjarni> svip: there already is one
21:21:03 <Bjarni> it's called dedicated server
21:21:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> just pipe sdl through aalib
21:21:41 <SmatZ> SDL_VIDEODRIVER=aalib bin/openttd
21:21:55 <eekee> a nethack-like display would be more fun than aalib ^_^;
21:22:12 <svip> You hear some trains in the distance.
21:22:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> and why me of all people?!?
21:22:27 <eekee> svip: no that's adventure and wumpus
21:22:37 <SmatZ> I spent a lot of time with nethack :)
21:22:46 <SmatZ> never finished it though
21:23:08 * Bjarni starts to wonder what nethack is
21:23:08 <eekee> so did I, but I cheated with a pixielated Qt interface :D
21:23:12 <SmatZ> and cheated by backuping savegames :-P
21:23:14 <Bjarni> I heard the name before but....
21:23:40 <svip> Sounds like a pixie version.
21:23:54 <eekee> Bjarni: text-mode RPG with top-down view. Used different characters to represent walls, monsters, etc
21:23:56 <Mchl> Bjarni: a rouguealike RPG game
21:24:17 <eekee> svip: ya, not really the right word. It had pixmaps, images
21:24:42 <Mchl> there's also graphical interface for it, that puts bitmaps instead of chars
21:24:52 <SmatZ> replacing characters with bitmaps :)
21:25:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> svip: you still did not answer my question
21:25:18 <Mchl> or like... several such interfaces actually
21:25:28 <Mchl> I think I've even seen one with isomteric view
21:25:37 <svip> I'd rather spend eternity eating sharps of broken glass, Eddi|zuHause2.
21:25:50 <eekee> yeah, I think there might have been one opengl one, although I doubt it looked wonderful
21:26:17 <svip> Bjarni, that's why you should love unicode.
21:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think someone earned a big *PLONK* right there...
21:27:29 <Mchl> I never really got into nethack... but I spend endless hours with ADOM, which is quite similar
21:27:42 <SmatZ> ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 emerge noegnud-nethack noegnud-slashem
21:27:49 <SmatZ> for those gentoo-users there :)
21:28:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> <SmatZ> replacing characters with bitmaps :) <- i remember norton utilities did that for the mouse coursors
21:28:38 <Bjarni> hmm... the text looks like it's 2nd edition AD&D
21:29:13 <eekee> (based on that, that is)
21:30:14 <Bjarni> reminds me of a character I once had (in a paperbased game). I rolled him and he had 18 str, 16 dex and 17 con. I decided for a fighter and rolled 1D100 for str... and rolled 96
21:30:23 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, it was nice to see it after program start, how some characters changed :)
21:30:30 <Bjarni> nobody wanted to pick a bar fight with that guy :D
21:31:07 <SmatZ> I don't like these game much
21:31:20 <SmatZ> you can spend one day rolling the dices :-P
21:32:05 <SmatZ> I remember I played TES2 : Daggerfall ...
21:32:09 <Bjarni> I just rolled right away and stayed at whatever it was (except if average score was below 7 or something like that)
21:32:09 <Mchl> I remember a female thief I played once in Warhammer FRP
21:32:12 <SmatZ> there were dices at game start, too...
21:32:23 <Mchl> I rolled her height to be about two meters...
21:35:00 <Bjarni> I remember one time when I had a cleric. While I was sleeping my party member decided to attack me (why???). He attacked with some spell and rolled it badly. I made my saving through and survived and killed him before he had a new action
21:35:07 <Bjarni> that was kind of stupid
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21:36:20 <Bjarni> then I had no guard so I didn't want to sleep on the ground. I climbed a tree and started sleeping up there and fell down X_X
21:37:43 <Mchl> yeah... party members are more deadly than enything that can be found in Monster's Manual
21:38:24 <Bjarni> I never figured out why he attacked me
21:39:01 <Bjarni> he was somewhat upset afterwards
21:39:12 <Bjarni> I don't think he was bored
21:39:29 <Bjarni> he was somewhat bored afterwards though
21:39:45 <Bjarni> until I cast "speak with dead"
21:40:18 <Bjarni> he then had to suffer -1 con permanently for that stunt
21:40:50 <Mchl> do you know Order of The Stick?
21:41:19 <Mchl> google it if you dare losing severa hours on D&D themed webcomic
21:42:50 <Bjarni> I read that Facebook, google and so on will be services that you will have to pay for from 2012 or something like that
21:43:40 <Bjarni> the great part was that a whole lot of people (including media people) took it seriously and it turned out to be produced by some guy who wanted to make a joke
21:44:03 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Well, you will have to pay to use google
21:44:08 <Prof_Frink> As google will be your ISP
21:44:11 <ccfreak2k> Must be a spin on the old "MSN will charge for e-mail addresses".
21:44:32 <Mchl> I'm still wondering, what's google eventually going to do
21:44:57 <Mchl> they're not giving free services without some plan I suppose
21:44:57 <Prof_Frink> Mchl: Googlebot will become self-aware.
21:45:30 <Bjarni> we considered stop giving out OpenTTD for free
21:45:39 <Bjarni> and talked about charging an arm and a leg for it
21:45:41 <Prof_Frink> You thought the Terminator was bad? Well, now it knows that you searched for goat porn.
21:45:52 * Mchl just thinks of consequences of self-aware web bots...
21:45:56 <Bjarni> but we decided against it.... we wouldn't know what to do with a pile of arms and legs
21:45:57 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: The term "Fork off" comes to mind.
21:46:45 <Mchl> say it with Scottish accent, and it'll actually sound rude :P
21:49:29 <Bjarni> say it with a Welsh accent and you will actually sound... ununderstandable :P
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22:31:10 <SpComb> mm, tasty, a special high-speed line for my first ICE train <3
22:31:23 <SpComb> it goes ~281km/h in a straight line across half the map
22:38:27 <SpComb> crap, except now I managed to crash one of my BR 103s :(
22:38:30 <SpComb> they don't sell them anymore
22:39:44 <fjb> Try to get one second hand.
22:44:46 <fjb> Hm, how is the airport noise calculated? I don't understand the wiki.
22:53:15 <SpComb> fjb: the bad side of having a monopoly
22:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: the bigger the airport the bigger the noise, the bigger the town the bigger the tolerance
22:53:43 <SpComb> so you have five international airports in a town
22:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> SpComb: use 120s or something
22:53:54 <fjb> SpComb: Hm, so no buying from yourself...
22:54:16 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause2: nor do they sell BR 120s, I subsituted it with a BR 112
22:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> 101s were the successors of the 103
22:54:36 <SpComb> the BR120 doesn't last very long
22:54:48 <fjb> I know the basic working of the noise. What I need are numbers. How do I calculate the minimum distance?
22:55:01 <SpComb> indeed, the BR120 does 160km/h, the BR 103 did 201km/h
22:55:11 <fjb> SpComb: Then you have to go for the ICE.
22:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> practically all IC business is done with 101 now
22:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> which was that other 200km/h one then? 181?
22:57:00 <SpComb> I've still got one or two BR 116's doing local services, mostly replaced with BR140s, now with BR112s
22:58:16 <SpComb> mainline is one BR101, some early-model BR103s, some late-model BR103s, two ICE1s
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23:09:36 <ccfreak2k> <SpComb> mm, tasty, a special high-speed line for my first ICE train <3
23:09:54 <ccfreak2k> I saw an episode of Modern Marvels earlier which featured a certain German ICE train.
23:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, we read that line :p
23:10:12 <ccfreak2k> I paste it for context.
23:10:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, as the discussion is that far gone from there...
23:10:48 <ccfreak2k> Which is why I did that.
23:11:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> and yes, the ICE crash near Eschede is the worst german train accident in modern history
23:12:43 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13595 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add [Library CHANGE]: introducing graph.aystar v4 and pathfinder.road v3, allowing directional searches, tweaking those few bad routes into perfect routes (Yexo)
23:18:51 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Yorick was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 5 hours, 30 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <yorick> ok :)
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23:29:05 <SpComb> ah crap, no more diesel passenger engines
23:29:16 <SpComb> not even the ICE-TD yet
23:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> diesel engines were rarely divided into passenger and freight
23:30:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> they were used universally most of the time
23:31:30 <SpComb> well, in 1999 the only Diesel engine in the DB-set is the DE-AC33C
23:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> west germany focused on electrification most of the time, and east germany had no tracks for trains going faster than 120km/h
23:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> except the 18 201 which was used for testing
23:32:57 * SpComb is still running two 69 year old ET-87s up north
23:33:14 <SpComb> the first passenger trains that I built, and I've not yet got around to replacing them
23:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> i find it bad that i cannot recolour the train sets
continue to next day ⏵
