IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-04-05
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10:46:34 <Wolf01> uh... I can't drag signals ò_O
10:47:35 <Wolf01> oh, I found why... the convert signal tool, still active also after the signal gui was closed
10:47:37 <ln> please state the nature of the medical emergency
10:47:49 <SmatZ> Wolf01: it should be fixed in trunk
10:48:16 <Wolf01> I'm playing with r12565 :/
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10:50:04 <SmatZ> the question is, at least for me, why dragging is disabled for conversion
10:51:26 <Wolf01> message to the dev who'll fix it: fix the trees button too, please... they are ages I'll demolish things thinking of planting trees
10:52:32 <Wolf01> It is a simple line fix: reset active tool when clicking on the trees button :P
11:03:28 <Wolf01> There's any work on basetunnels?
11:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> not on the hacky ttdp kind, i assume
11:07:26 <Wolf01> Because I want to build roads over tunnel entrances too
11:10:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> it'd all be solved with multi-layered maps
11:12:48 <snappy> gh that gamer i havent checjked out ye
11:17:07 <Patrick`> I wat to build high bridges over a city :(
11:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i think something crashed
11:18:20 <Wolf01> I want to build bridges over bridges
11:18:52 <Patrick`> crossing tunnels would probably do the job you want
11:19:08 <Wolf01> Yes 2 trains crashed, I removed a signal on a really busy junction :/
11:19:43 <Wolf01> Tell me how to build a tunnel to cross a valley between mountains
11:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it's totally weird, when my / HD [or IDE port] crashes, all loaded programs will go on, as will access to the /home HD [SATA port]
11:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> but i can't shut down properly
11:21:11 <Wolf01> I want to cross something like 30 tiles long valley, ok the bridge will leave a large gap between trains but I don't care, I play more for eyecandy, and there are bridges 6 levels under my bridge
11:21:12 <Rubidium> Wolf01: remove some ifs and asserts from the tunnel code
11:21:23 <Rubidium> then you can just build a tunnel through mid air
11:21:42 <Rubidium> just needs a bump on each side of the valley so the tunnel entrances can be build
11:22:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, now amarok crashed
11:22:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> i really need to reboot
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11:35:48 <SmatZ> Wolf01: first bug fixed
11:36:32 <SmatZ> hmm that signal GUI code was far from perfect :-x
11:38:12 <Gekz> omg i'm so tired that I'm shaking
11:38:19 <Gekz> yet i can still play frets on fire -_-
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12:49:10 <SmatZ> Wolf01: both your dreams came into reality today :)
12:49:32 <Wolf01> :O basetunnels and custom bridge heads?
12:50:42 <SmatZ> Wolf01: no... signal building when the convert signal is active, reset cursor when you open the build trees gui
12:50:54 <SmatZ> but your guess was near :)
12:51:41 <Eddi|zuHause> so, SmatZ, what about the tunnels anyway?
12:52:13 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: Belugas is working on advanced bridges, maybe tunnels will come together, I have no clue...
12:52:31 <Wolf01> nooo shhhhh you shouldn't tell it
12:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so you don't actually talk to each other, great ;)
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13:06:55 <Volley> i did read a bit about the custom bridge heads ... Wolf01: what do you mean with basetunnels?
13:07:19 <Wolf01> the possibility to build over tunnel entrances
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13:10:10 <Volley> but there are quite some more things i'd also love to see about tunnels ... :)
13:10:41 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, that's why the hacky TTDP apporach will most likely not be implemented
13:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause> but a more complex system that will have these features as small sideeffects
13:12:09 <Patrick`> bridges that are automatically signalled every tile
13:13:06 <Volley> sideeffects like diagonal directions possible? or maybe eaven angles? :)
13:13:57 <Patrick`> diagonal bridges would need new grafix
13:15:02 <LordAzamath> planetmaker: try @logs
13:15:04 <Volley> yep, from a graphic point of view this would be easier for tunnels, all you would need are entrances
13:15:35 <glx> or try the right command ;)
13:16:26 <LordAzamath> meh.. forgetting things already when not been here
13:16:37 * LordAzamath was here yesterday, but it doesn't count
13:20:41 <Wolf01> we need first tracks going up diagonal slopes, so you can build a straight track without breaking it to climb a slope
13:21:26 <Rubidium> and trains that can actually climb a 5% slope
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13:36:36 <larsemil> is there a good SDL tutorial/howto?
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13:43:24 <larsemil> Sacro: do you have a url?
13:43:43 <Sacro> though not as many as google
13:44:37 <Alberth> google doesn't have them, they just save pointers to them :P
13:45:24 <Eddi|zuHause> urls ARE pointers
13:45:57 <Forked> haven't seen gonozal in a while.. did his patchpack destroy him? :\
13:46:00 <Alberth> euh, you are right, sorry
13:47:37 <Alberth> Is the bottom window special? (ie _z_windows[0]) In functions like FindWindowFromPt() and DecreaseWindowCounters() they seem to skip it
13:49:09 <Sacro> everything will fall out the bottom
13:49:59 <Alberth> You don't want to see your desktop background between the Windows? :)
13:51:34 <larsemil> Sacro: thnx for nothing
13:52:11 * Sacro is good at doing nothing
13:52:53 <Wolf01> anybody knows a good grf with automobiles compatible with long vehicles?
13:53:55 <Wolf01> but it doesn't have automobiles
13:54:27 <Wolf01> so I can purchase 400 of them to populate the roads
13:54:39 <Ammler> there is something like funnycars
13:56:08 <Gekz> are there pictures in that link
13:56:27 <Ammler> no, is a excel list with links to the GRFs
13:58:17 <Ammler> and as always, please have a look on the readme :-)
13:58:43 <Ammler> you can change the VehID...
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14:03:58 <Eddi|zuHause> <Forked> haven't seen gonozal in a while.. did his patchpack destroy him? :\ <- he suffered from the sun, i presume
14:05:32 <sickie88> I too wander where he is
14:10:45 <DorpsGek> Ammler: I have not seen Gonozal_VII.
14:11:12 <DorpsGek> Ammler: Gono* could be Gonozal_VIII (2 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 2 minutes, and 17 seconds ago), Gonozal (5 weeks, 4 days, 8 hours, 28 minutes, and 6 seconds ago), Gonozal_VIIIe (7 weeks, 0 days, 17 hours, 11 minutes, and 57 seconds ago), Gonozal_ (15 weeks, 0 days, 16 hours, 33 minutes, and 2 seconds ago), Gonozal_VIII_ (15 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 55 minutes, and 0 seconds ago), gono_ping_timeout (15 weeks, 5 days, 18 (1 more message)
14:14:34 <planetmaker> SCNR: if you wander where he is, you can stop us wondering ;)
14:16:16 <Wolf01> nice a taxi has 1,336,xxx of running cost... a coach 390,xxx
14:17:47 <dih> hey Sir SpComb - you arrr ound?
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14:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that line is all he ever says ;)=
14:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... "Lissi" is a great movie ;)
14:45:41 <dragonhorseboy> eddi just asking as I kinda recall bringing it up once...
14:45:51 <dragonhorseboy> have anyone fixed that silly problem with lighthouses sitting on foundations? :p
14:47:17 <dih> is it? i was thinking og buying it
14:53:54 <dih> we were wondering if you could be had for a lil python project
14:55:21 <dih> SpCombe seems like a fastly (?:dis)?appearing person
14:58:18 <Sacro> Patrick`: a long snake, poisenous
14:58:37 <dih> i am asking SpComb for a reason... :-)
14:58:59 <dih> but its rewriting autopilot
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15:00:26 <Patrick`> I don't have a lot of free time atm
15:01:26 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: it is definitely fun to watch, if you know at least half of the references ;)
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15:06:30 <SpComb> dih: I'm doing lights for a theatre production (that starts in... 10 seconds)
15:07:09 <SpComb> so on the long term, tell me more, but in the short term... not quite yet
15:07:12 <Ammler> hmm, then you have enough time :P
15:14:53 <SpComb> as for autopilot... something to progrsamattically interface with the OpenTTD console?
15:17:27 <dih> when you dont know a word just smile and nod
15:17:41 <Ridayah> dang, now I wish you could have per-cargo orders for a train. Although that'd probably be a pain to code.
15:18:14 <Ridayah> If I find time, I might have to.
15:20:25 <SpComb> the issue with that is that MyOTTD development is (slowly) heading in another direction
15:21:05 <SpComb> modules that are compiled against the OpenTTD source code and then accessed via a binary interface
15:21:43 <SpComb> i.e. I'll statically link my own code into the OpenTTD binaries that I run
15:22:00 <dih> well - autopilot is not supposed to replace myottd
15:22:15 <dih> the main interest i guess is the irc bridge
15:22:28 <dih> and that the bridge can recover itself
15:22:44 <SpComb> I know, but my meaning was that the MyOTTD code that I write may not be that relevant for autopilot
15:22:48 <dih> and that ap config can be reloaded without needint to restart the game
15:23:23 <dih> although a irc bridge for myottd could be interesting too
15:23:42 <SpComb> I'll eventually get around to it
15:24:08 <Ammler> all we need is myottd.net with ircbridge :-)
15:24:30 * SpComb wrote another simple irc-bot-daemon recently, which is pretty close to what MyOTTD needs
15:25:09 <SpComb> (i.e. a separate daemon that handles the IRC connection(s))
15:25:34 <Ammler> then, we have to fight with installing myottd.net on our own server :-)
15:25:36 <SpComb> and then a syslog relay on top of that
15:25:58 <Wolf01> my bot doesn't work instead... it hangs on loading the uptime module... it has been shut down for 3 months
15:25:59 <SpComb> yeah, and that's the difference betwneen myottd and autopilot
15:26:52 <SpComb> one's intended to be a colossal centralized thing and the other a self-contained scriptt
15:28:24 <Ammler> current server can host about 2 games
15:28:56 <Ammler> you can't keep them centralized
15:29:10 <Ammler> or you would need a huge cluster
15:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, my university has one of those ;)
15:33:56 <Sacro> we have a 64 cpu cluster
15:34:42 <peter1138> it even suspends and resumes properly :D
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15:43:21 <SpComb> Ammler: the the next server will be able to host 16 games
15:43:57 <Ammler> peter1138: one game per cpu
15:44:54 <SpComb> but yes... it's a bit of an issue, can't really figure out how to implement my ISK system
15:46:44 <Ammler> and when pbs will be in trunk, you need about 2 cpus for one game
15:47:40 <Sacro> i guess me and peter1138 are testing it
15:47:54 <Ammler> you don't think, it will go to trunk?
15:48:32 <Ammler> it needs about 2 times more then usual games in our tests...
15:49:10 <peter1138> but then i don't play stupidly large games
15:49:17 <Ammler> did you play with about 300 trains?
15:50:11 <Ammler> usually we can have 500-800 trains to bring Brianetta's server to limit
15:50:24 <Ammler> with YAPP, we reachad that limit with 300
15:50:51 <peter1138> i ought to get a 4 pin pwm case fn
15:51:03 <peter1138> i just unplugged the 3 pin fan i have and box is near silent
15:51:03 <Ammler> but that was with v4.3
15:52:07 <SpComb> Ammler: how many online players? What hardware?
15:52:21 <Ammler> well, its not the newest server
15:52:31 <Ammler> amount of online player doesn't matter much
15:52:43 <SpComb> I mean the 500-800 trains stat
15:52:57 * SpComb in interested in real-world performance stats
15:53:30 <Ammler> but you can try the wwottdgd/1 save
15:53:38 <Ammler> if you like to make a real test :-)
15:54:04 <SpComb> what about the hardware?
15:55:13 <Ammler> Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz
15:55:48 <Ammler> but it doesn't matter for ottd
15:55:52 <SpComb> openttd doesn't multithread does it?
15:56:02 <Patrick`> saving is done in a separate thread
15:56:08 <Ammler> that means you can run 4 ottd server at same time :-)
15:56:11 <Patrick`> well, compression of saves
15:56:27 <SpComb> right, so one 3.20Ghz core runs a 500-800 train 2048x2048 map?
15:56:31 <Ammler> but that was a real huge game
15:56:47 <Ammler> not many clients at the end was able to join
15:57:10 <Ammler> no, that was the server for wwottdgd
15:57:40 <Ammler> Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 1.80GHz <-- 800 trains
15:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> oh that were the times when you could play TT on a 25MHz CPU
15:58:35 <SpComb> but how many OpenTTD servers have 500-800 trains?
15:58:41 <Ammler> we hat about 2000 vehicels on the wwottdgd
15:59:08 <Eddi|zuHause> 8 players with 100 trains each?
15:59:25 <SpComb> the average game of OpenTTD probably doesn't use quite as much CPU-time...
15:59:36 <Ammler> joined coop, I played often at sandra.bullock
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15:59:46 <Ammler> that was really annoying at the end
16:00:01 <Ammler> I guess, that was Chris, he had about 4 servers at same time
16:01:36 <Ammler> SpComb: your service is very buggy now, but when it will go stable, many (maybe also coop) would be intereseted in your service.
16:01:38 <Patrick`> I need to play some more ottd online
16:02:02 <Patrick`> SpComb: if you work more towards bundling the software, maybe others will share the (server) load :)
16:02:29 <SpComb> Ammler: yeah, that's the reality and I know it (the buggy-bit)
16:03:01 <SpComb> although I did once use myottd myself to host a game that I played for 12 hours or so, and it *did* work
16:03:46 <SpComb> distributing software is in many ways a lot more difficult than just running it yourself
16:04:06 <SpComb> althoguh I can't exactly claim that the latter is easy either...
16:04:11 <Ammler> I tried to bring a ECS game running at your server
16:04:17 <SpComb> the two just pose different problems
16:04:31 <Ammler> but its really hard handling GRFs there
16:04:58 <Ammler> well, you get Error page everytime if you login
16:05:20 <Ammler> then you loose the grfs, when you change the version of ottd
16:06:08 <Ammler> I heard the login part also from others.
16:06:21 <Ammler> most time you aren't able to rejoin
16:06:34 <SpComb> yeah, I have that myself (the login thing)
16:06:51 <Ammler> to reconfigure something on your server
16:07:10 <SpComb> you mean rejoin after restart?
16:07:28 <Ammler> yeah relogin after a week or so
16:08:01 <Ammler> I loded the half ottdc_grfpack
16:08:16 <Ammler> you can imagine, how long that takes over your form :-)
16:08:49 <Ammler> and then, I thought, go to update to new version
16:09:47 <Ammler> thats why I asked you to take our pack as common grfs
16:13:10 <SpComb> what happaned after you changed the version? The list of grfs cleared itself? Or just the tick-boxes?
16:13:43 <SpComb> don't show up on the list anymore?
16:13:53 <Ammler> looked liked they belong to the version
16:14:16 <Ammler> well, let me take a look
16:15:50 <Ammler> wow, not able to login now..
16:16:02 <SpComb> it really shouldn't do that
16:18:10 <SpComb> yeah, the login error i known, I meant the grf thing
16:19:07 <Ammler> SpComb: not a error, but how are the GRFs sorted?
16:19:28 <SpComb> you do need to start a new game to use the grfs though, and the UI doesn't reflect that
16:19:36 <SpComb> Ammler: they... aren't
16:20:26 <SpComb> not entirely sure, I suspect that it reflects the order that they're un on the web page
16:22:47 <SpComb> there's no UI to chnage the order though
16:23:15 <Ammler> you could use the coop pack and order like filesystem
16:23:43 <Ammler> hehe, just loaded same rev as coop ps and it seems to work
16:24:08 <Ammler> you only have to fight with login then
16:24:27 <Ammler> is that because of the different subdomains?
16:24:40 <Ammler> (handling of cookies etc.)
16:27:34 <Ammler> omg, it really seems to work, did you make some updates, SpComb?
16:29:21 <Ammler> SpComb: could I prepar a GRFPack, which you could upload there?
16:31:46 <SpComb> no, I copy-paste-monkey-patched support for (hardcoded) cookie domains into pylons... it's probably related to that, but not a darn clue how and it's åretty difficult to debug
16:32:32 <SpComb> but the GRF-UI needs some tweaking if you were to stick a couple dozen GRFs into the list
16:33:00 <Ammler> our pack is prepared for using as it is
16:33:34 <Ammler> our webconfig tool has no order possibitly either
16:34:20 <Ammler> you "just" need to use the order of the filestructure
16:35:45 <Ammler> the game configuration is quite cool
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16:42:18 <Ammler> SpComb: I am not able to start a new game
16:42:27 <Ammler> it allways takes auto.sav
16:43:58 <Ammler> (workaround over rcon: newgame)
16:48:02 <SpComb> you mean if you do new random game?
16:48:38 <SpComb> what's yur server's id?
16:50:58 <Maedhros> hmm. 0.5.3 isn't marked stable yet in Gentoo/AMD64 ...
16:53:36 <SpComb> is the config still broken?
16:54:21 <SpComb> are those values supposed to be numeric or something?
16:54:32 <SpComb> I don't see any extra quotes in the .cfg
16:55:15 <Ammler> those errors didn't appear
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18:22:21 <edeca> I'm playing with that newgrf package from above and it looks good
18:22:30 <edeca> But it says "too many newgrfs" :(
18:22:40 <edeca> Can that be increased, or do I need to pick & choose the ones I want
18:22:48 <Ammler> not meant to all at same time
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18:24:06 <edeca> Aah well, I'll sift through
18:24:11 <Ammler> the limit is around 50
18:24:29 <edeca> Some of them I definitely don't care about, but some seem nice
18:24:34 <edeca> The map looks pretty :)
18:24:41 <edeca> Can you enable more than one alternate train set?
18:25:27 <edeca> That's cool. I like the UKRS anyway, but I wouldn't mind trying some of hte others
18:25:36 <edeca> New road vehicles and trams seem good though, I've not tried them
18:26:55 <Eddi|zuHause> general rule is: only one set of each kind (e.g. train, road, tram), unless they state that they should be used together (e.g. ECS industries)
18:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> station sets are free to use however many you like
18:28:58 <Maedhros> you can use as many house sets as you like, too (although there's a limit of 402 new houses)
18:29:23 <edeca> There are some nice newgrfs
18:29:33 <edeca> New industries might be fun too
18:30:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with newindustries is that some transportation sets are not designed to transport all these cargos
18:33:34 <edeca> So UKRS isn't going to work well with them? :(
18:35:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure about that
18:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it will definitely go well with PBI
18:35:41 <Ammler> please have a look on the GRFLIST in the pack
18:35:53 <Ammler> you will find links to documentations
18:36:06 <edeca> It's just all very confusing :)
18:36:06 <Ammler> there is a nice wiki page about ECS
18:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause> DBSetXL will need an extension for the cargos
18:45:30 <edeca> Haha, the TEA Tanker Wagon can be refitted to take "tourists"
18:45:40 <edeca> I've got a newgrf set that looks cool now though, time to play with it
18:46:18 <edeca> Some of the new industries look funny though
18:48:40 <henkie> hmm, some newgrf seem to slowdown the random scenario generator
18:49:47 <henkie> too bad it doesnt do that multithreaded :)
18:55:42 <glx> they have very restrictive landscaping needs
18:56:29 <henkie> ah, it does 1 industry/sec (in 2048x2048)
18:58:01 <henkie> i removed one (something with brick) and now i goes a little faster
18:58:34 <henkie> still slow tho, but time to make dinner :)
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19:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> henkie: try very low amount of industries
19:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> they'll all close down before you can connect them anyway ;)
19:24:30 <Wolf01> anybody uses Code::Blocks? I'm looking at how to adding a new build target
19:30:56 <Wolf01> np, I manually modified the template of the project
20:44:27 <edeca> I don't appear to have oil tankers in 1945, have I screwed up with newgrfs :(
20:45:02 <Ammler> did you read the readme about newships?
20:48:12 <edeca> I don't see any warnings in there, what am I missing?
20:49:26 <Ammler> newships is the only ship replacement grf
20:49:56 <Ammler> you have oil tanker from 1928
20:50:48 <edeca> I meant oil tankers for road
20:51:34 <edeca> I thought I only had one, I'll see if I can remove others without ruining the game
20:51:53 <Ammler> if you like big RVs, take 4LV
20:52:10 <edeca> I have two tram sets, hrm
20:52:48 <edeca> What is 4LVs name in the list?
20:53:21 <Ammler> use GRFLIST and search for 4lv
20:54:23 <edeca> I wish the newgrfs could be split into road/train/industry/station etc
20:56:07 <Ammler> the GUI isn't made for man GRFs
20:56:38 <edeca> Hrm, I still only have busses :)
20:56:49 <Ammler> it comes from time, only about 5 NewGRFs worked in OTTD :-)
20:57:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12582 /trunk/src/ (order_base.h order_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: move some (needlessly) static inlined functions from order_base.h to order_cmd.cpp.
20:57:27 <Ammler> well, at least you can manage GRFs over GUI
20:58:03 <edeca> I have ford model T available, heh
20:58:16 <Ammler> maybe you need to REFIT
20:59:04 <edeca> Yep, I think I need to refit a model T
21:02:27 <edeca> It is worrying how raw products can run out though ;)
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21:45:17 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12583 /trunk/src/ (oldloader.cpp order_base.h order_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: make AssignOrder a class function of order.
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22:59:45 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
23:37:17 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12584 /trunk/src/ (22 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: do not access the order type directly.
23:46:14 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12585 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix (r12584): assumption that assertions were enabled during compilation/testing was flawed.
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continue to next day ⏵
