IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-04-04
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00:07:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12557 /trunk/src/ (music.cpp music.h strgen/strgen.cpp): -Cleanup: use MAX_PATH at two more places
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02:25:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12558 /trunk/src/subsidy_gui.cpp: -Feature: subsidy window can now be resized.
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08:22:12 <jordi> and trams weren't available yer
08:22:28 <larsemil> think you have to include a grf-file for them.
08:22:41 <larsemil> i had to. did not have them in 2030 when i started a game to check
08:22:41 <jordi> when should I expect them?
08:23:00 <jordi> larsemil: I added the newgrf thing before starting the game
08:23:05 <jordi> I can build tracks and stations
08:23:11 <jordi> but I never get a train
08:27:09 <jordi> so I need a "tram set" which isn't included in 0.6.0 or what?
08:30:34 <Celestar> jordi: it is included I think. you just have to activate it
08:31:43 <Celestar> it's included in 0.6.0
08:32:01 <Frostregen> but strangely not in trunk
08:32:12 <Celestar> that's why I was wondering
08:32:33 <jordi> then I can't understand where these new trucks, buses and trams are not available in 2004
08:32:59 <peter1138> it's included, but not activated
08:33:12 <Celestar> jordi: you'Ve got to activatet he file
08:33:37 <Celestar> load average: 12.04, 6.94, 4.27
08:33:47 <jordi> does it make sense that I do have the depot, tracks and so on graphics but no vehicles?
08:33:59 <Celestar> jordi: did you or did you not activate the tram grf?
08:34:16 <Frostregen> those are disabled by default, if nothing is available. (but it is a patch setting)
08:34:26 <jordi> Celestar: I am not sure now. If I hand't, I wouldn't be able to build tracks, right?
08:34:46 <jordi> then I guess I got it wrong
08:35:18 <jordi> besides the newgrf addition in the options menu, what else do I need then?
08:35:21 <Ammller> Distributing NewGRFs? Is that a new policy of OpenTTD or "just" trams?
08:35:45 <jordi> Ammller: trams look like a core feature to me
08:36:03 <Celestar> Ammller: it somehow depends on the license of the newgrf
08:36:37 <jordi> oh, is it common to see non-gpl newgrfs around here?
08:36:58 <Celestar> jordi: most file that contain art in some for are non-gpl
08:37:13 <Celestar> jordi: they often have other "free" licenses, but not npl
08:37:30 <jordi> "Use the advance vehicle list"?
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08:41:58 <Frostregen> should be "Show building tools when no suitable vehicles are available"
08:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> jordi: often it is "free to use, but not to distribute", so the creator can rotate out old versions of the grf by not making them available anymore
08:54:26 <Ammller> hmm, generictrams is not in trunk
08:54:44 <Ammller> so we still need it in the pack too
08:55:12 <Ammller> its a little bit confusing
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09:09:14 <jordi> Frostregen: that would give me the vehicles?
09:09:25 <jordi> sounds like I'd hve the menu available, not greyed out
09:09:30 <Frostregen> no, but disable the building tools
09:09:46 <jordi> I had the menu disabled when I first tried
09:09:58 <jordi> then I added the newgrf file and it worked
09:10:03 <jordi> but still got no vehicles
09:10:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> you won't get trams in a road depot
09:10:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> just wanted to make sure ;)
09:11:15 <Frostregen> i just started a game in 2000 and had lots of trams
09:11:28 <Frostregen> could you check if the grf is really loaded?
09:11:49 <Frostregen> you have to add the grf AND press apply
09:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> adding grfs midgame is not recommended anyway
09:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> suggestion: try adding it a second time, then type "resetengines" in the console
09:14:07 <jordi> and I shouldn't load openttd at work :)
09:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> if that doesn't work, start a new game and make sure the set is loaded before you start
09:16:45 <jordi> the game was an old one
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10:43:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12559 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (6 files): [NoAI] -Add: SetLastError support for AIAirport.
11:00:09 <Belugas> [04:54] <Ammller> its a little bit confusing <-- no, it make sens, as trunk would become quite big. For nothing, in fact...
11:00:55 <Ammller> Belugas: so it won't go to be default? (was just a "special" action?
11:01:21 <Belugas> for releases, it's fine. for trunk it's too big for nothing
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11:03:56 <Ammller> was just wondering, if I can delete it from "our" GRFPack
11:04:00 <Belugas> it is when you're svn co, yes
11:04:21 <Belugas> your decision, not our :)
11:04:35 <Belugas> anyway, got to go breakfast
11:04:39 <Ammller> well, we play with trunk, so no. :-)
11:05:29 <Ammller> I searched in the meantime the branch ottd_grf but didn't find it there... :-)
11:08:08 <Ammller> I would suggest, you should make a exception for trams and rivers, those 2 are the only GRFs you could miss in a plain install. (or are there more?)
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11:48:52 <Celestar> my "Freeze" spell still does no dmg :(
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16:23:47 <SmatZ> Trond: can you reproduce it in a non-modified version?
16:23:52 <glx> Trond: what patch are applied?
16:24:20 <Trond> daylenght, distant joint stations, middle stop
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16:25:13 <Trond> I dont have a clean build tbh, but I could always make one...
16:25:37 <Trond> unless someone have a clean trunk build and can reproduce
16:25:56 <SmatZ> Trond: it could be caused by r12371
16:26:10 <SmatZ> can you verify it works in r12370 and doesn't work in r12371 ?
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16:27:15 <Trond> I think... now I got unsure, so I have to check
16:28:17 <Trond> did happen in r12392 aswell :P
16:29:34 <Trond> not in 12289 :P I dont have 12370 nor 12371
16:30:38 <Trond> I have 12365, and it didnt happen there...
16:31:25 <Trond> hope that helps a bit atleast
16:32:12 <Trond> hi again lord :) how are you?
16:32:33 <Trond> I will try to make a clean build of latest trunk, but svn is been acting up a bit today,.,
16:33:02 * LordAzamath saw that generic trams came with 0.6..
16:33:15 <Trond> yeah, isnt that nice :)
16:33:30 <LordAzamath> although I wont be playin it now :P
16:33:35 <Trond> did you notice subsidy window is now sizeabel too :) in trunk :P
16:33:38 <Dirtbag> I can host online servers ;)
16:33:58 <Trond> wount be playing :O why? busy at school?
16:34:15 <LordAzamath> Trond: Other interests tbh
16:34:52 <Trond> girls, or something more important? like games :D
16:35:44 <LordAzamath> girls are almost the most important.. only the earthworm is more
16:36:20 <Trond> hehe, so says my girlfriend... except for the earthworm part :P
16:36:35 <Trond> SmatZ: Also happened with a clean r12562
16:36:36 <LordAzamath> listen to Maedhros
16:36:52 <LordAzamath> No-one's more important than the earthworm."
16:37:35 <Trond> without insects the world would die in less than 50 years they say ;)
16:37:36 <SmatZ> Trond: most likely caused by r12371
16:37:53 <Sacro> return (test == true)? ( (test == false)? false : true) : ((test == false) ? false : true);
16:38:13 <LordAzamath> ok.. cya sometime
16:38:14 <Trond> SmatZ: Ok. Not a major thing anyway, so not a very high priority bug imho
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16:59:55 <Sacro> Belugas: that's just too easy :p
17:00:11 * Sacro has to make a start on his C#+XNA assignment
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17:37:23 <ln> over 30 minutes is not an adequate response time!
17:38:35 <Bjarni> I guess my ping to Finland sucks
17:38:59 <ln> and to all other countries too.
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18:06:06 <Bjarni> ln: such a train isn't allowed here unless some of the locomotives count as wagons and hence turns off their engines
18:06:20 <Bjarni> this is for safety reasons
18:07:22 <mrfrenzy> it would be a waste of fuel to have more than two locos running anyways
18:08:09 <Bjarni> say the max load of those engines is 600 tons (that's a guess more or less at random)
18:08:22 <Bjarni> say you have a total weight of the wagons to 1500 tons
18:08:33 <Bjarni> then it takes at least 3 locomotives to pull them
18:08:41 <mrfrenzy> ooh sorry I didn't see that the train continued
18:08:50 <mrfrenzy> thought it only had three wagons
18:08:57 <mrfrenzy> (which looked kind of ridiculous)
18:09:09 <mrfrenzy> logically it is a very loooong train
18:09:45 <ln> Bjarni: the description (which i left out due to English Only rule) says that only the first three are pulling.
18:10:06 <Bjarni> I have seen a train consisting of 7 locomotives and no wagons
18:10:26 <Bjarni> the front one was pulling 6 switching engines from one switching yard to another one
18:10:39 <Bjarni> all the switching engines were off
18:13:09 <ln> Bjarni: additional details: the model in the front is still in use, but the three bigger ones have been history since 2000.
18:14:16 <Bjarni> well I didn't guess at 2000 but still I made a guess on what engines you guys use based on design ;)
18:15:51 <Bjarni> only the front had the engines on
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18:18:02 <ln> Digitalfox: how's your C++?
18:18:38 <Digitalfox> Not bad ln :) But still I have lot's to learn even if it's just thebasics ;)
18:19:14 <Digitalfox> The funny and cool part is that now when i look to open code I actually start to understand what most things mean :)
18:23:45 <Digitalfox> Bjarni shit that's too simple for me, I'm trying way more hard stuff =0
18:24:07 <Bjarni> like ASM multithreading?
18:24:45 <Digitalfox> But Bjarni why don't you try that is so simple lol
18:24:52 <mrfrenzy> here at the rock festivals they run trains with like five Y1, I wonder how many engines are running in those
18:24:57 <Patrick`> threads were an appropriate paradigm when we had multiple processes and one processor
18:25:55 <mrfrenzy> how many tonnes are reasonable to pull with 320kW?
18:26:13 <Digitalfox> Well to be honest coding is not my dream of doing in my next years, but networks so this is just to pass the exams :)
18:26:13 <Bjarni> that depends on a lot of stuff
18:27:25 <Alberth> threads are an appropiate paradigm when we have one programs running at a quad core machine
18:27:32 <Bjarni> if you is satisfied with say 30-40 km/h then you can pull say 4-500 tons if the grades aren't too bad
18:27:50 <Bjarni> but acceleration would suck
18:28:02 <mrfrenzy> na I'm talking 70-90 km/h here
18:28:24 <mrfrenzy> max speed 130, but I think they rarely make over 90
18:29:26 <Bjarni> however I guess that motorcar isn't designed for a huge load
18:31:03 <mrfrenzy> no, net weight is 45 ton, takes about 150 passengers
18:31:10 <Bjarni> mrfrenzy: I guess if you use correct gearing and stuff then you could do like 60 km/h with a load of 150 tons (including engine)
18:31:32 <Bjarni> but this is like max load
18:31:59 <Bjarni> this is when the engine is maxed out and it just maintains the speed
18:32:19 <Bjarni> naturally you don't want that on a regular basis
18:32:21 <mrfrenzy> aah, then I guess they would be running atleast two engines in a four wagon train
18:33:42 <Bjarni> usually such railcars are designed to pull 1 or 2 cars so a 4 unit train consist of two locomotives
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18:34:42 <Bjarni> a 6 unit train would also use 2 locomotives ;)
18:34:45 <mrfrenzy> hanging around here is dangerous, I might soon start spending too much time on train ;)
18:35:02 <Bjarni> oe 3 depending on the power of the engines
18:35:07 <mrfrenzy> 6 units is max possible
18:35:30 <Bjarni> I guess with 320kW it will only use 2 locomotives
18:35:59 <Bjarni> a max of 6 units is fairly common
18:36:18 <Bjarni> the airbrakes might not even be designed for the lag in trains longer than that
18:37:24 <mrfrenzy> hmm, you mean the last units will break later because of the time it takes for the air to travel?
18:38:13 <Bjarni> but with trains designed to be this short they sometimes cut expenses and make a simple brake
18:38:32 <Bjarni> meaning that the driver just lets out a certain amount of air
18:39:04 <Bjarni> then the pressure in the rear is higher than the front and when he just wants to maintain the pressure it evens out and raises in the front
18:39:23 <Bjarni> so controlling how much the train actually brakes is more tricky than usual
18:39:42 <Bjarni> and becomes much harder as the train increase length
18:39:44 <mrfrenzy> aah, so driving a multi-unit train takes a little more effort and knowledge from the driver
18:40:02 <Bjarni> it depends on how the brake handle valves are designed
18:40:43 <mrfrenzy> there are a lot of electromechanical relays in those trains
18:40:48 <Bjarni> if they decided to spend "enough" on it then he controls the pressure in an air tank and then valves will ensure that the pressure in the brake is the same as that tank
18:40:56 <mrfrenzy> you will hear them clicking all the timde if you hang around near the front
18:41:29 <Bjarni> I presume it's the engine remote control
18:41:42 <mrfrenzy> I've never seen one break down
18:41:50 <Bjarni> the system that ensures that all engines delivers equal power at any given time
18:42:25 <mrfrenzy> I wonder if they have one 320kW engine or several smaller
18:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> only one time i was in a train that announced it could not go on and we had to take the next train going from the other platform in a few minutes
18:43:05 <Prof_Frink> The *train* announced that?
18:43:07 <Bjarni> mrfrenzy: usually DMUs has one engine on each bogie
18:43:28 <Prof_Frink> "I'm sorry, Dave, I can't take you to the next station"
18:43:46 <mrfrenzy> it still looks the same today
18:43:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> Prof_Frink: wait, your tains don't talk?
18:43:52 <Bjarni> I was once ordered to leave a train because the line closed down. There was a fire in a train up ahead so the train could go nowhere
18:44:23 <mrfrenzy> he's braking with his left hand and controlling the speed with his right
18:44:32 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: They only say "The next station is Morninton Crescent" and "Mind the Gap"
18:44:42 <Bjarni> I control with left and brake with right :)
18:44:47 <Prof_Frink> And, on occasion "Exterminate!"
18:45:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> all other instances of train-not-going-anywhere was due to "person damage"
18:45:16 <Prof_Frink> Not "passenger action"?
18:45:23 <mrfrenzy> it's also has some kind of intelligence, if he sets the right lever on a certain setting and the train is standing still, it will accelerate up to a certain speed and then keep that speed
18:45:40 <Prof_Frink> Which is Underground-speak for "Someone jumped in front of a train"
18:45:57 <Bjarni> btw that fire in a train turned out to be a cold V20 diesel engine in full power turning on the smoke detector at a station
18:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it's official speak for "someone jumped in front of train"
18:47:23 <Bjarni> we call that "hit person" (sounds a bit more sane when it's not translated)
18:47:37 <Bjarni> and it includes every possible way of hitting a person
18:48:09 <mrfrenzy> we actually had a collision here between an Y1 and a trailer
18:48:26 <Bjarni> including that one time when a guy wanted to commit suicide and prepared to jump off a bridge and a train pantograph hit his foot and pull him with it
18:48:27 <mrfrenzy> fortunately the Y1 had no passengers, and it hit the end of the empty trailer
18:48:36 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Including the driver getting out and punching someone?
18:49:11 <Bjarni> he survived (surprisingly enough) and now the railroad had a driving train with a man lying on the roof
18:49:59 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: I hope they fined him for not having a valid ticket
18:50:00 <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Including the driver getting out and punching someone? <-- no that would more likely be "worker endangered by passenger"
18:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> aren't there like high voltage wires on top of an engine?
18:50:17 <Bjarni> it was the 1500 V line
18:50:47 <Bjarni> if it had been the 25.000 V line then even his rubber shoes wouldn't have protected him
18:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> and that is not high?
18:51:45 <mrfrenzy> 1500V doesn't jump through more than 1.5mm of rubber
18:51:52 <Bjarni> 1500 V is deadly but it's possible to protect yourself by using some sort of isolation like rubber. 25 kV fries you and your insulation
18:52:33 <Bjarni> how fast was the train going?
18:53:02 <mrfrenzy> I don't think very fast
18:53:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> in germany, maximum breaking distance is 1km (from speeds <160km/h)
18:53:13 <mrfrenzy> because of the curve and the train still mostly on the track
18:53:40 <Bjarni> a few years ago we had train driving 160 km/h and the track gave in under it
18:53:51 <Bjarni> so the rear bogie derailed at 160 km/h o_O
18:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> eeeek... driving on left...
18:54:04 <mrfrenzy> those trains normally drive att 200km/h though
18:54:10 <Bjarni> the train just stopped and then nothing
18:54:15 <Bjarni> no injuries or anything
18:54:19 <Bjarni> the train was easy to fix
18:54:25 <Bjarni> and the track was replaced
18:54:47 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> eeeek... driving on left... <-- they have always done that in Sweden
18:55:04 <Bjarni> which turned out to be an issue when building a bridge between Denmark and Sweden
18:55:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> it still scares the crap out of me
18:55:10 <mrfrenzy> ehm, we are driving on the right?
18:55:14 <Bjarni> since it contains a double tracked line
18:55:30 <Bjarni> <mrfrenzy> ehm, we are driving on the right? <-- not the trains
18:55:46 <Bjarni> the cars moved from left to right hand driving in.... 1967 I think
18:55:49 <mrfrenzy> when they meet at my closest station they meet on the right side
18:56:11 <mrfrenzy> I very rarely have traveled on double track so I don't know about that
18:57:01 <Bjarni> the first train might stop at the curved track (greatest speed reduction) and then the other one can benefit from a track with a higher speed limit
18:57:10 <Bjarni> but this only really matters if only one of them has to stop
18:57:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> mrfrenzy: you can easily determine the driving side from the side the signals are on
18:57:42 <mrfrenzy> aah, if there are no passengers getting on or off only one train will stop
18:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> except when the signals are placed on the other side, which usually means they have some kind of arrow plate indicating this
18:58:15 <mrfrenzy> okay I will go look at the signals tomorrow ;)
18:58:36 <Bjarni> there is a railline not far from here where the speed limit in the curved track used to be 25 km/h until very recently. The speed limit in the strait track is (and was) 75 km/h
18:59:01 <Bjarni> they did some stuff to it so now the speed limit in the curved track is 40 km/h
18:59:20 <Bjarni> passengers still prefer the train to go like 20 km/h due to the curve though :/
18:59:35 <mrfrenzy> why oh why do people stop on their cars on the track?
18:59:40 <mrfrenzy> ever had a collision bjarni ?
19:00:01 <Bjarni> a train/train collision?
19:00:09 <mrfrenzy> no, train/other thing
19:00:12 <mrfrenzy> car/person/whjatever
19:00:13 <Bjarni> you usually only have only one of those :P
19:00:51 <mrfrenzy> I thought you were driving trains?
19:00:54 <mrfrenzy> maybe I misunderstood ;)
19:00:57 <Bjarni> no I haven't really hit anything
19:01:14 <Bjarni> but I had a near collision a few times
19:01:24 <mrfrenzy> the driver jumped on the floor and didn't hurt a bone
19:01:34 <Bjarni> like I have been like 10 cm from hitting a vacuum cleaner in a repair shop
19:02:34 <Bjarni> I have been like 3-5 cm from hitting a deer at 60 km/h.... now that wasn't fun at all
19:03:59 <mrfrenzy> I've been close to hitting a car in the winter once
19:05:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r12568 /extra/ottd_grf/palettes/openttd.gpl: -Add: the TTD win gimp palette
19:05:08 <mrfrenzy> here we have pedestrian crossings at the exits of roundabouts in some places
19:05:15 <Bjarni> everything in cars goes really fast
19:05:21 <mrfrenzy> and since a few years there is a law that says a car must stop for any pedestrian
19:05:29 <mrfrenzy> so a pedestrian can just walk out into the streat
19:05:36 <mrfrenzy> and all traffic in the roundabout suddenly stops
19:05:37 <Bjarni> it's different from trains where all your actions have a responcetime
19:06:08 <Bjarni> mrfrenzy: I noticed pedestrians in Sweden
19:06:11 <Ammler> mrfrenzy: same here (CH)
19:06:33 <mrfrenzy> they fail to realize cars have a longer stopping distance than pedestrians
19:06:38 <Bjarni> in fact I really wondered about it last time I was in Sweden
19:06:59 <mrfrenzy> (the lawmakers that is)
19:07:10 <mrfrenzy> the big problem is, many pedestrians also don't realise that
19:07:23 <mrfrenzy> we have had a 30% increase in pedestrian accidents since that law was introduced
19:07:40 <mrfrenzy> because they think the cars can stop in a blink, and it's their right to jump out infront of the cars
19:07:57 <Bjarni> I waited at a traffic light (as a pedestrian) and I had to cross 5 lanes. Like 10 other people waited as well. I was the only one standing there when it turned green. Everybody else walked across while it was red if they thought they could do it before the next car arrived
19:08:02 <Ammler> how long does it exist in your country?
19:09:25 <mrfrenzy> it's illegal to walk against a red light, but there is no fine or other punishment for it
19:09:42 <mrfrenzy> the worst thing that could happen is the policeman telling you you did something illegal
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19:10:13 <Bjarni> I fear safety from Swedish pedestrians
19:10:40 <Ammler> and velo driver thinks, they have same rights as those :-)
19:10:43 <SmatZ> I think this law is in almost whole Europe
19:10:50 <Patrick`> jay walking isn't illegal here in the uk
19:11:37 <mrfrenzy> when I was in one of thouse split-buses (> 25m long)
19:11:52 <mrfrenzy> there were two girls on bicycles that went out 2m infront of the bus
19:11:58 <mrfrenzy> bus was going about 30km/h
19:12:51 <Bjarni> there was a case about a Swedish pedestrian in Helsingør (it's a Danish town with ferries to Sweden). He walked on the railroad tracks (of all places) and a train used the horn and he went to the side. The train then continued and when it was like 5 meters from him he started walking on the tracks again (the train was driving 15 km/h)
19:13:16 <mrfrenzy> I'm assuming he is no more?
19:13:34 <Bjarni> but his foot will never be the same
19:13:35 <mrfrenzy> the bus driver hit the horn, and fortunately the girls made it past in time
19:14:54 <Bjarni> or it could be a 100 meters down the line... I don't know
19:15:15 <mrfrenzy> that seems like a very poorly protected track
19:15:26 <Bjarni> hence the speed limit of 15 km/h
19:16:14 <Bjarni> or rather the speed limit is defined by: the train has to obey to the same stopping distance as a lorry driving 50 km/h
19:16:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> <mrfrenzy> that seems like a very poorly protected track <- tram lines always look like that
19:16:27 <Bjarni> which for the train in the picture is 15 km/h
19:17:04 <Bjarni> they just replaced the trains with some modern ones so in theory they can increase speed now but it will take a lot of paperwork to do that
19:17:05 <mrfrenzy> I ghought it was train
19:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> but probably trams have better breaks
19:17:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it's not a tram, i was just pointing out...
19:17:53 <Bjarni> let's see if I have it on the computer... I have pics from that place with real trains
19:18:43 <Bjarni> it's not on the computer
19:19:19 <Bjarni> then you just have to imagine what it looks like with a locomotive pulling some wagons on that track
19:19:42 <Bjarni> in fact it's the one with the 25 km/h speed limit in the curved tracks ;)
19:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's funny, Berlin S-Bahn has a ring around the inner city, but one round trip took 63 minutes, so they could not schedule the trains properly (instead incoming trains from the suburbs went 1 1/2 turns around and stopped)
19:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> so they bought new trains to get that round trip time to 60
19:21:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> but the trains don't have higher top speed, they have better breaks
19:22:08 <Bjarni> google didn't help much either
19:22:47 <mrfrenzy> it would never be allowed to build like that in sweden
19:22:50 <mrfrenzy> people are just too stupid
19:23:41 <Bjarni> you should notice that the traffic light is actually also a railroad crossing. You can see the bell to the far right
19:23:50 <Bjarni> all the cars get red when there is a train
19:24:19 <Bjarni> and the bell rings all the time (it's not one of those that stops after a while but before the train passes)
19:25:15 <Bjarni> the only safety issue is that people sometimes cross the track even though there is a red light and bells
19:25:42 <Bjarni> and I guess if that is the safety issue then all railroads have a safety issue
19:25:48 <Bjarni> since it can happen at all crossings
19:26:11 <mrfrenzy> yes that is the problem with people
19:27:50 <Bjarni> that's more like what you would expect from a railroad
19:28:12 <Patrick`> that's like steampunk trams
19:28:24 <mrfrenzy> we had a steamtrain passing here a few years ago ;)
19:29:22 <Patrick`> do a steampunk rendition of an electric train
19:29:37 <Patrick`> like, overhead steam pipes or something
19:30:20 <Bjarni> <mrfrenzy> we had a steamtrain passing here a few years ago ;) <-- on the road?
19:31:53 <Bjarni> <Patrick`> do a steampunk rendition of an electric train <-- Austria rebuilt some steam locomotives into electric-steam locomotives during WW2. They didn't have resources to build new locomotives and they lacked coal so they put heating elements in the boilers so they could power the trains from hydro powerplants
19:32:46 <Patrick`> Bjarni: that's mental!
19:33:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: actually, that was switzerland
19:33:52 <mrfrenzy> it could be from similar age
19:34:06 <mrfrenzy> but I really wouldn't know, was more like five years ,)
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19:37:16 <Bjarni> I was looking for that page right now
19:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> you should improve your googeling skills ;)
19:37:46 <Bjarni> Presumably there was a compelling reason to distribute power at such a low frequency, but despite various suggestions, the matter remains obscure, to me at least. One obvious objection to 16.6 Hz distribution is that all the transformers would be three times the size. <--- he wrote that after I sent him a mail. Before that he wrote that he thought it was odd that they didn't use 50 Hz
19:38:23 <Patrick`> is that physically true?
19:40:12 <mrfrenzy> according to my sources:
19:40:46 <mrfrenzy> The first proper single phase alternating current motor suitable for trains was made by westinghouse in 1902
19:41:03 <mrfrenzy> it was not possible to run at higher frequencies than about 25hz
19:41:04 <Bjarni> <Patrick`> is that physically true? <-- could I get the long version of that question so I know what you are asking about? :)
19:41:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> "locomotives are often made AC->DC->AC" <- i learned that really new engines use 3 phase AC
19:42:17 <Bjarni> they use AC-DC-AC because then they have full control of the phases
19:42:30 <Bjarni> and can even give different frequencies to each axle if they want to
19:42:49 <mrfrenzy> most importantly they can vary the frequency which is a very efficient way to control the speed of the motor
19:42:52 <Prof_Frink> "We're using AC-DC because it's heavy metal."
19:42:53 <Bjarni> Siemens use this to give a smaller load on axles with damaged wheels
19:44:12 <Bjarni> I presume other manufactures can do similar stuff but I only know details about this from a single locomotive and it happens to be a Siemens locomotive
19:44:45 <Bjarni> looks like hell broke loose and Belugas is the messenger
19:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Ar sindarnoriello caita mornie,
19:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Ar ilye tier undulave lumbule...
19:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> not my kind of music...
19:45:30 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
19:46:20 <Bjarni> you are talking about music
19:46:32 <Prof_Frink> I was talking about Look Around You
19:46:52 <Bjarni> that kind of music is hell
19:47:18 <Bjarni> [21:44:51] <Eddi|zuHause2> # Ar sindarnoriello caita mornie,
19:47:18 <Bjarni> [21:44:51] <Eddi|zuHause2> # Ar ilye tier undulave lumbule... <-- what?
19:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's titled "Haldir's Lament"
19:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> translation is something around the lines
19:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Out of a grey country darkness lies
19:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> And all paths are drowned deep in shadow..."
19:49:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's played when Haldir is stabbed to death at the battle of helms deep (towards the end of the 2nd part)
19:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> or what i actually meant: WHAT?!? you are not fluent in Quenya?!?
19:52:04 * ln bought non-free software today.
19:52:40 <Rubidium> ln did finally buy a legal Transport Tycoon Deluxe CD!
19:52:57 <ln> Rubidium: wrong, that one i've had for over 6 months already.
19:53:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> and you have openttd for how long now? 4 years?
19:55:19 <ln> I only enjoyed reading the source code before that.
19:56:09 <ln> new try: I only enjoyed it by reading the source code before buying the legal CD.
19:56:31 <Prof_Frink> *cough*bullshit*cough*
19:58:49 <peter1138> damn, dvd is failing :(
19:59:25 <ln> anyway, I bought MS Flight Simulator X deluxe, and Civ IV.
20:01:06 <ln> I plan to buy X-Plane 9 too at some point.
20:02:37 <ln> but is this new Rail Simulator worth the money?
20:05:03 <Bjarni> is there a rail simulator out there that's worth the money?
20:05:11 <Bjarni> compared to the real thing, that is
20:07:37 <ln> the real thing is significantly more expensive than 50€.
20:07:54 <ln> wonderful, FSX wants to activate itself.
20:11:21 <ln> "Lego" is an abbreviation of some danish word(s). Bjarni can elaborate.
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20:19:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
20:19:39 <Belugas> Lego is also a brand name
20:23:28 <Belugas> Ridayah has Spoken :)
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20:29:32 <Bjarni> <ln> "Lego" is an abbreviation of some danish word(s). Bjarni can elaborate. <-- actually it means "I play" in Latin
20:30:39 <Bjarni> there is an urban myth that it should mean LEg GOdt (good playing) but AFAIK it's the latin explanation that's the real one
20:31:09 <Bjarni> * Sacro plays in latin <-- you want to translate OTTD to latin?
20:31:22 <Sacro> Bjarni: ROMANUS EUNT DOMUS
20:32:26 <Bjarni> maybe I should kick Sacro. He failed to realise that it's an English only channel
20:32:27 <hylje> what are you laughing at
20:33:06 <Bjarni> (most likely spelled wrong)
20:35:46 <Bjarni> did any of you get that one?
20:36:43 <hylje> i'm pretty sure most of the usual suspects know what's about
20:36:54 <hylje> (and that's definitely not Life of Bjar.. Brian)
20:37:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> Schwanzus Longus in german
20:38:01 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: I said that I misspelled it
20:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> how is the danish translation?
20:40:21 <ln> Bjarni: according to my sources, the latin meaning was a coincidence that was only found out about later.
20:43:18 <Bjarni> I guess only the Kirk Christiansen family knows for sure
20:43:55 <Bjarni> btw Denmark has some pretty big family businesses
20:45:21 <hylje> yet south park draws parallels between canada and denmark
20:48:16 <hylje> it's not perfectly free as in torrents
20:49:24 <Bjarni> we have free commercial free TV
20:49:38 <hylje> i bet you pay tv licences
20:50:00 <Bjarni> but that's more or less impossible to avoid
20:50:35 <Bjarni> if you live in Denmark and have an internet connection that's faster than a 56k modem then your computer can be used to watch TV and then you have to pay
20:50:57 <Bjarni> so there is talk about just moving it into taxes since everybody has to pay anyway
20:56:57 <Bjarni> hylje: 1: Southpark still sucks
20:57:09 <Bjarni> 2: so far Denmark haven't been mentioned at all
20:57:57 <hylje> you were expecting an episode about denmark?
20:58:10 <Sacro> a 10-second joke? sounds like Bjarni's sex life
20:58:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12569 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp road_gui.cpp road_internal.h): -Cleanup: variable scope and coding style in road*.cpp
20:58:40 <SmatZ> CIA-1 is really lagged today
20:58:50 *** Sacro was kicked by Bjarni (My sexlife is nothing like yours)
20:59:07 <hylje> i refrain from saying anything derogatory of Bjarni
20:59:10 <Sacro> Bjarni: it was last night
20:59:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12570 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: further variable scope in road_gui.cpp
20:59:28 *** Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai
21:00:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12571 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix: MorphOS misses INT16_MAX/INT16_MIN.
21:02:35 <Bjarni> the Denmark joke were downright insulting
21:02:44 <Bjarni> but I guess the whole thing is insulting to Canada
21:06:06 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
21:06:23 <Bjarni> stillunknown: what a silly name
21:06:33 <Bjarni> so you aren't unknown anymore
21:06:56 <Bjarni> we should blame Canada for stillunknown having an incorrect name
21:07:35 <hylje> and blame canada for south park making a joke about, for goodness' sake, denmark
21:07:43 <stillunknown> Why blame canada?
21:08:52 <Bjarni> stillunknown: hylje tricked me into watching Southpark about Canada
21:09:07 <Bjarni> but I kind of knew that
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22:06:29 <ln> hmm, there's a lot of source code with Civ IV.
22:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, you can mod it on XML level, on Python level or on C++ level
22:08:43 <Bjarni> they decided to allow for user made plugins
22:08:57 <Bjarni> and then read the net to see what happens
22:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are lots of mods to be found in the forum
22:10:17 *** dih was kicked by Bjarni (we only want skilled IRC workers in here. Pressing incorrect buttons will not do. You might have better luck at bash.org)
22:10:55 <dih> thank you - i appreciate that Bjarni!
22:12:25 <Bjarni> now you can go apply to bash.org
22:12:49 <ln> 01:08 <@Bjarni> and then read the net to see what happens <-- what happens?
22:13:49 <Bjarni> count mods and look at good mods and so on
22:14:20 <dih> and none of it has to be put into trunk
22:14:27 <Bjarni> ln: btw is it the mac or the windows version of Civ IV?
22:14:58 <Bjarni> they had big problems with the mac version for some reason
22:15:12 <Bjarni> like being unstable and lacking sound fx
22:15:27 <Bjarni> they made one patch that fixed some of it but introduced new stuff
22:15:39 <Bjarni> and they made another one but I don't know if that one is any good
22:15:46 <ln> i know this one open source game, where you cannot apple-tab out of fullscreen in the mac version.
22:15:50 <Bjarni> you see I only read about this from upset people
22:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> in what mystical world does this game exist?
22:16:58 <Bjarni> ln: I have a long term plan on how to fix it but it's tricky as I will not sacrifice speed to gain this ability
22:19:06 <ln> Bjarni: could it be an option?
22:19:42 <Bjarni> egladil is working on it (but it appears to take a while)
22:20:06 <Bjarni> and I don't want to do double work so I will just wait for him to finish ;)
22:20:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think ktorrent is heavily leaking memoryy
22:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> top said it's using 25% mem
22:21:32 <Bjarni> either that or you are downloading a lot
22:21:56 <Bjarni> or your computer sucks :P
22:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> then i clicked on "quit", and since then, a minute has passed, and memory gone to 35%
22:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> all torrents were stopped
22:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> it eems to have finished now
22:22:50 <Bjarni> I once had a crashing app due to memory leaks
22:23:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i have 400MB free memory now
22:23:07 <Bjarni> and it was intended to use like 100 mb
22:23:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the HD finally got quiet
22:23:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> peace and quiet
22:28:01 <jez9999> get anywhere with the autoreplace improvements?
22:30:07 <jez9999> or rather just the one improvement
22:30:17 <jez9999> allowing correct estimation of replace cost
22:30:49 <Bjarni> but it's unreliable so I don't think that I will commit it
22:31:16 <Bjarni> I want something that's consistent
22:31:19 <jez9999> why isnt there a way to reliably estimate?
22:31:26 <Digitalfox> Bjarni i have also seen a crashing app consume 7GB also due to memory leaks, this was on a Windows 2003 64bit having 8GB total, the app was just a network traffic statistics thing that normally would just consume 6 or 7MB :p
22:32:10 <Bjarni> the 4 GB limit was hit on a 32 bit system with 512 MB RAM
22:32:55 <Digitalfox> Oh I was talking about RAM not pagefile :)
22:34:24 <Digitalfox> But this happen because it crashed for days and days I believe that it was something like 2 weeks of increasing the memory leak..
22:34:26 <Bjarni> <jez9999> why isnt there a way to reliably estimate? <--- maybe there is
22:34:57 <Digitalfox> And people just notice it because when they tried to logon to that domain it took 2 hours :p
22:35:35 <Bjarni> which is 15% more than usual on windows, right?
22:36:42 <Digitalfox> Actually I had to migrate that network even clients to Gigabit because the boss of that company liked to play with their company Unreal :p
22:37:30 <Digitalfox> It is a fun place to work =0
22:38:21 <Bjarni> reminds me of a bash quote about a cool boss
22:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean with the network stress test? :p
22:38:42 <Bjarni> this guy had to test the network under heavy load and asked for money for a device to do so
22:38:47 <Bjarni> the boss found a cheaper way
22:38:52 <Bjarni> ordering everybody to play unreal
22:39:10 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: I guess so :)
22:40:09 <Bjarni> there is another one about a guy asking everybody in the office for a CD key for Starcraft and then his boss gave him a no CD crack
22:40:11 <Digitalfox> And would you believe that boss actually payed to migrate some PC's to support better unreal at higher resolutions? At first i thought he was joking, but well he reall wanted that..
22:41:17 <Bjarni> and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything there
22:41:35 *** Sacro was kicked by Bjarni (I won)
22:42:37 <Digitalfox> I'm listening to Paul Potts in youtube, what a voice and what a guy :|
22:42:37 <jez9999> Digitalfox: bet he thought that at higher resolutions, Unreal would use more network traffixc
22:43:32 <Digitalfox> jez9999 no he does have some knowledge about computers and he really wanted everybody to feel the same... :\
22:44:00 <Digitalfox> But hey he has money so...
22:44:53 <Digitalfox> Personally I don't like shooters only RTS, some RPGs and adventurous games :)
22:45:47 <Bjarni> and I have learned that I have become picky
22:46:17 <Digitalfox> Right now I'm remembering the old times of 1990 and playing Monkey Island
22:46:39 <Digitalfox> In 1990 this game made sleep a lot less.. :(
22:46:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> the first game i remember was sokoban
22:47:32 <Digitalfox> Well Amiga had some great games even in 1989 :)
22:47:44 <Digitalfox> I remeber games like theme park
22:48:32 <Digitalfox> And others but I forgot the names and even using google can't find there names..
22:48:50 <Digitalfox> Just remember the plot and some images
22:48:56 <Bjarni> I was just thinking about Monkey Island as well
22:49:13 <Digitalfox> Have you heard the music some band just did about it?
22:49:21 <Bjarni> <Digitalfox> Just remember the plot and some images <-- then just send me those images and I can tell you the names
22:49:40 <Digitalfox> Well do you have a brain reader?
22:49:55 <Bjarni> <Digitalfox> Have you heard the music some band just did about it? <-- do you mean press play on tape?
22:50:12 <Zuu> Digitalfox: But you could draw a picture and send to Bjarni :)
22:50:45 <Digitalfox> Zuu me drawing.. Oh that would be fun.. =0
22:51:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> i never had an amiga
22:51:26 <Bjarni> or shame on your parents.... you really missed out on the good stuff
22:51:31 <Digitalfox> Spectrum sorry guys but sucked... Damn tapes.. :(
22:51:34 <Gekz> and my parents didnt buy it for me
22:51:37 <Bjarni> Amigas ruled the planet back then
22:51:43 * Zuu neither, the only non PC I've had (and still have) is a N64 :)
22:51:57 <Bjarni> <Gekz> I still have one <-- I have two and I think I have a link cable.... somewhere
22:51:57 <Digitalfox> Bjarni true.. We were the only ones with good sound
22:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have played Monkey Island from 4 5¼" disquettes ;)
22:52:18 <Bjarni> I have a Commodore 64 as well
22:52:49 <Digitalfox> Well I have a Amiga 500 and 600
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22:53:16 <Digitalfox> And by the way Zuu i also have a N64.. Loved Mario64 and Zelda
22:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you didn't play Monkey Island from disquette, you couldn't really appreciate the joke about "insert disk 235" ;)
22:53:45 <Bjarni> I can't remember that joke
22:53:47 <Zuu> Digitalfox: I only had it for car games hehe
22:53:51 <Bjarni> I'm not sure I encountered it
22:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> it was in the forest on melee island, a hole in a treestumb
22:54:44 <Bjarni> I read about the fact that you should look at it but I haven't played it since I read it
22:55:06 <Bjarni> however I went the other way in MS3
22:55:16 <bowman> I just discovered the FMTOWNS-versions of the scumm games
22:55:38 <Bjarni> looking out of a crack and then Guybrush's came into a screenshot from MI1
22:55:49 <bowman> some are noticeably better looking than the pc/amiga originals :)
22:55:51 <Bjarni> naturally I meant MI3 :P
22:55:51 <Digitalfox> "In the 256 color versions there is an error at the end. When Guybrush falls down into the grog machine he is only displayed in 16 colors" lol I have to see this
22:56:01 <bowman> and with cd audio hehe
22:57:14 <bowman> fmtowns was a proprietary japanese pc-setup
22:57:51 <bowman> I think basically a 386 but with vga and cdrom years before that became common for ibm compatibles
22:58:11 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:59:20 <Digitalfox> Bjarni did you also had to put a paper or something on a diskettes hole to make the diskettes compatible with amiga, so that diskettes of 1.44 became of 720 KB..
22:59:23 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
22:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> i had the "remake" zak
23:00:00 <Digitalfox> I had so i could copy some games with Xcopy lol
23:00:02 <Bjarni> my kickrom allowed for HD disks to be used as DD disks without any physical modification
23:00:07 *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
23:00:17 <Bjarni> but it didn't work for anybody else using Amigas
23:00:20 <bowman> why buy hd disks for amiga, they were more expensive :)
23:01:13 * bowman recalls having stacks of storage boxes with 100+ disks each hehe
23:01:23 <Bjarni> <bowman> why buy hd disks for amiga, they were more expensive :) <-- yeah but in the late years of my amiga usage era DD disks were hard to find and HD disks had become fairly cheap
23:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have 100 DVDs
23:02:11 <Digitalfox> One thing I do remember is using 80 diskettes for copying Warcraft 2 and that was with ARJ compression full of stwitches and BAT files.. But after 8 hours and returned home to try it it had the Barracuda or something like that Virus.. Men was I pissed :|
23:03:00 <bowman> I think the worst I ever had to deal with was one game on 12 DD disks :P
23:03:05 <Digitalfox> Well in that time there were no CD recorders on the market
23:03:13 <Sacro> it's piss easy to convert a normal disc into DD
23:03:16 <Sacro> just drill the corner out
23:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> i once installed WIN95 (CD version) on a laptop that did not have a CD drive
23:03:38 <Bjarni> I was once told that there could only be one virus on each disk on the Amiga system so a trick could be to install a harmless virus on purpose
23:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> using 2 disquettes formatted for 1,7MB
23:04:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> copying the .cab files from the other PC one at a time
23:04:13 <Bjarni> I don't think I never noticed anything bigger than 11 DD disks
23:04:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> win95 was like 20 .cab files of 1.7MB size
23:04:44 <bowman> I remember willy beamish
23:04:57 <Bjarni> I always wondered about that game
23:05:06 <Bjarni> never figured out what it was all about
23:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> plus some miscellaneous stuff for the first two disks setting up the installation
23:05:13 <Patrick`> I once walked uphill both ways in the snow
23:05:20 <bowman> pretty standard adventure game with cartoon style animation (hence the size)
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23:05:33 <Bjarni> I saw it at a friend and he had it on the HD so I don't know anything about disks
23:05:40 <SmatZ> I installed Win95 on 100MB ZIP disc... with source files on that disc, too :)
23:05:59 <bowman> pretty much unplayable from disks, I only got try it after I bought an a1200 with hd
23:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> i remember the TT CD my brother bought
23:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> it was the 2 installation disquettes put on a CD
23:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> what a waste...
23:07:39 <Digitalfox> How technology has evolved over this 20 years.. What will the future bring I ask myself lot's of times.. :)
23:07:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> the first "cartoon" style adventure i know was DOTT
23:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> it even had speech, but we didn't have a sound card...
23:08:56 <bowman> I played all of DOTT fairly recently (with speech and cutscenes!) on my phone heh
23:09:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> i only had the disk version, it only had speech in the intro, it was said the CD version was fully with speech
23:09:47 <Bjarni> the CD had speech everywhere
23:09:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> but what are "cutscenes"?
23:09:51 <Bjarni> kind of cool back then
23:09:52 <bowman> most scumm games have a full talkie version
23:10:01 <bowman> and some have prerendered movies
23:10:19 <bowman> as extras for the cd versions
23:10:27 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> but what are "cutscenes"? <-- prerendered movies not using the game drawing engine
23:10:56 <Bjarni> meaning like in DOTT when all the credits shows in the start and the car is driving
23:11:06 <bowman> also played through the dig :) the scumm games work perfectly on handheld devices that have 320x200 resolution and stylus touchscreen uis
23:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> the first game making extensive use of videos i had was civ2, but it could not play them on my computer (missing codec or something)
23:11:32 <Bjarni> SCUMM were designed for 320x200
23:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> the next one was HOMM3
23:12:18 <bowman> perfect for uiq2 & uiq3 phones
23:12:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> but my computer wasn't fast enough to play them, so they were full of artifacts
23:12:41 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: either it was civ2 or civilization: call to power that relied on the indeo video codec... it really sucked
23:14:55 <Bjarni> the indeo codec still sucks as it's closed source
23:15:25 <Bjarni> and never ported to anything except windows and old versions of MacOS (not OSX)
23:15:44 <Bjarni> it's not even a good codec o_O
23:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have still never seen any of the civ2 movies
23:16:39 <bowman> probably not missing much
23:17:18 <Bjarni> your advisors really sucked
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