IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-03-12
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:14 <DaleStan> Why are they "lively"?
00:00:29 <Patrick`> it was classed under ttdpatch features tho
00:00:35 <Patrick`> also: amusing limitations of ttdpatch
00:01:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> Patrick`: where is this classification?
00:01:39 <Patrick`> also, ttdp has fully programmable signals
00:02:05 <DaleStan> TTDPatch does have user-generated rivers, but without knowing what makes a river lively, I can't say if that's the same feature.
00:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> Patrick`: that is very wrong
00:03:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> afaik, no coding has been done for "lively rivers" yet, and it is completely an ottd invention
00:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> what IS a ttdpatch feature is showing river graphics as some kind of custom canals [only possible in scenario editor]
00:06:09 *** Ammller has joined #openttd
00:09:18 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
00:17:50 *** Ammler is now known as AmmAway
00:18:13 *** AmmAway is now known as Ammler
00:19:35 <dragonhorseboy> either way just a curiousity question but when think pbs could be found in a release of openttd? :p
00:22:25 <DaleStan> When both (1) its done and (2) 0.6.0 is released.
00:23:08 <dragonhorseboy> fair enough :p
00:23:13 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
00:24:07 <dragonhorseboy> I once saw someone making a bit of a mess with a station that was 5 platforms yet only had two lines (typical in/out) and was getting jammed up..even after I helped this player by trying to rebuild the junction into a 2+3 one ... like you think having pbs could be helpful heh
00:24:31 <dragonhorseboy> I never had any problem building 4-8 platforms to just one set of double mainline in ttdp
00:25:33 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
00:28:31 *** Ammller has joined #openttd
00:28:45 <DaleStan> Which sprites is -m converting? -m is supposed to automatically detect and ignore character glyphs.
00:29:38 <DaleStan> .... As in, "Which sprite numbers"? And that's the wrong way to do it; glyphs can also appear in action A. Maybe action 5 too.
00:30:30 <DaleStan> SVN rev? (though I think the -m/-M distinction has been around a while.)
00:34:10 <glx> and as far as I can see in grfcodec source, -m/-M is only used when decoding
00:34:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> dragonhorseboy: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2012.%20Mai%201939.png
00:36:05 <dragonhorseboy> whats the deadend waypoint for?
00:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> turning cargo trains
00:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> PBS-Version of that same station: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%202.%20Mai%201985.png
00:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> dragonhorseboy: i have a cargo line from the top left to the bottom left (and return), i used the waypoint to let them reverse at the station without blocking a platform, but it hat very low capacity, so i later built the western passing track, the waypoint is unused since then
00:41:15 <DaleStan> *grumble* Then the correct solution is to fix -m. Which isn't going to be easy.
00:41:52 <dragonhorseboy> heh eddi I see how several excessive rails had been removed around junction area ^_^
00:43:07 <glx> I think -m works correctly on decoding (by looking in the code it detects if colours are 0,1 or 2)
00:43:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> dragonhorseboy: without PBS, you need a lot of extra rails to put signals on
00:44:48 <dragonhorseboy> eddi...so true that and one more thing I've sometimes found a blessing in...
00:45:42 <dragonhorseboy> where I have like double mainlines barely parallel to a town that I first skipped by but then when I decide to have service stop there..I just slap a station and put in two quick 'X' junctions...
00:46:03 <dragonhorseboy> and traffics doesn't even change much since the trains can pass each others by like they don't care they're only a few pixels apart
00:46:48 <dragonhorseboy> (and to think I used to hate building through stations due to the complex of trying to seperate north and south lines before pbs came)
00:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> the most interesting part is that even the "simple" station is designed so trains can leave each platform in each direction
00:56:44 <SpComb> discussion about how great PBS is?
01:02:18 <SpComb> is there some document about the signalling somewhere?
01:02:24 <SpComb> how they work/where to place them?
01:04:15 <dragonhorseboy> well I think I'm going off anyhow so bye ^-^
01:04:23 *** dragonhorseboy has left #openttd
01:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> SpComb: there's a wiki page on the design of the new PBS
01:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> SpComb: practically it is "remove any signal that is not an entrance signal"
01:11:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> browsing old screenshots raises so many memories...
01:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%204.%20Sep%201925.png
01:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> (that is with the old PBS)
01:13:30 <DaleStan> Good. I like that solution better, so in it goes.
01:13:48 <glx> yes your solution is way better :)
01:20:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, except the priority signals
01:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> (the ones with the red plate)
01:21:41 <glx> DaleStan: pcxfile.cc is broken (missing } at the end
01:22:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> your line is broken, missing ) at the end ;)
01:23:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> SpComb: not described on this page is the ability to mark signals as not passable from behind (yellow plate)
01:28:11 <DaleStan> glx: *grumble* Fixed, again.
01:29:33 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
01:36:18 *** Eddi|zuHause3 has joined #openttd
01:49:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12360 /trunk/ (bin/data/openttdd.grf src/table/files.h): -Fix: openttdd.grf was using the wrong colours for glyphs due to a grfcodec bug (fixed in grfcodec 0.9.10 r1837)
02:30:24 *** Christoph_ has joined #openttd
02:42:40 <DaleStan> glx: That won't work either; the build process doesn't necessarily delete the old .exe file before creating the new one. Would "... if [ -e $@ ]; then ..." work?
02:43:58 <glx> as long as it doesnt't do "cp grfcodec.exe grfcodec.exe" it's ok
02:45:00 <stevenh> Does anyone know of a GRF that uses all 4 railtypes at once?
02:45:48 <DaleStan> But there's no way it can do that; $@ and $@.exe aren't the same thing.
02:45:55 <glx> hmm "... if [ -e $@ ]; then ..." doesn't work
02:48:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> stevenh: pretty much all grfs are designed for TTDP, which can only handle 3 railtypes at a time
02:49:19 <stevenh> yeh, as i thought... and whilst working on this current issue with catenary on maglev, i'm trying to work out how to allow them to both work at the same time
02:49:32 <stevenh> ie. have a grf that thinks it can only use 3 also work on 4 if need be
02:49:41 <stevenh> without too much hassle to both sides.
02:52:05 <Sacro> i would love to have more railtupes
02:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> stevenh: the grf can use 4 railtypes, but no grf does
03:00:22 <stevenh> my issue is that when they decide to, the current patch i'm working on wont cover everything they might want to do.
03:04:14 <stevenh> DaleStan, when unifiedmaglev is set to, say 1, and a vehicle is defined for maglev, does TTDP automagically switch it to monorail?
03:05:05 <stevenh> ...i was under the impression that the GRF would choose the assigning, ie. checking the patch variable first and then setting mono|maglev
03:05:47 <glx> cp: `grfcodec.exe' and `grfcodec.exe' are the same file
03:07:38 <DaleStan> stevenh: No, TTDPatch leaves the track type alone. The only thing unifiedmaglev changes is which strings and sprites are used for the third track type.
03:09:42 <DaleStan> TTDPatch may or may not move a track type 01 engine to track type 02 when electrifiedrailways on. That is the effect, but the different motive powers may or may not be maintained internally.
03:11:51 <glx> because "g++ -o grfcodec ..." always add .exe (default output is a.exe)
03:13:16 <DaleStan> Can you get ISCYGWIN, or a similar constant, to trigger for MinGW/msys ? That seems like the better solution, to me.
03:14:44 <DaleStan> ... "similar" would be the better solution, as -mno-cygwin probably wouldn't be appreciated by MinGW's gcc.
03:19:29 *** nycerine has joined #openttd
03:21:48 <glx> I have 2 options, "gcc -dumpmachine" and "uname"
03:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> that statement actually reads like "ttdpatch can do whatever it wants"
03:27:55 <DaleStan> Well, it can, provided the user-visible behaviour remains the expected behaviour. There's no significant difference between changing the track-type of an engine from 01 to 02 and changing the track-type check for track type 02 to "Engine requires a track type of either 01 or 02". They both end up with the engine in question working properly on the third track type.
03:28:30 <DaleStan> *Engine must require
03:31:22 *** arielcanada has joined #openttd
03:31:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> how long until ttdpatch completely got rid of all TTD code? ;)
03:32:38 *** gfldex_ has joined #openttd
03:34:00 <stevenh> I still can't see an elegant solution to this, one way favours the old ttdp method meaning minimal
03:34:18 <stevenh> (re)coding for GRF authors... the other way allows more railtypes, etc...
03:34:28 <stevenh> which wont be on the ttdp radar...
03:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> honestly, i'd view that "unifiedmaglev" thing as a hack, if you design new stuff, leave that totally out of the view
03:35:17 <stevenh> but then you're not supporting ttdp properly.
03:35:19 <Sacro> stevenh: personally, i'd like the new railtypes method
03:35:28 <DaleStan> But you must have the correct value for unifiedmaglev, as GRFs use that to determine which track sprites will be displayed, and thus which track sprites they should replace.
03:35:55 <stevenh> DaleStan, well in OTTD, setting that to 1 or 2 will have consequences...
03:36:03 <stevenh> 1 is the best idea... to just use up the monorail slot
03:36:12 <stevenh> but that means no catenary...
03:36:23 <stevenh> 2 is ok, but that means no realistic acceleration, etc...
03:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> stevenh: the openttd system was specifically designed to be able to take more railtypes, you should definitely build upon that
03:36:40 <DaleStan> No, if it's set to 1, the third rail type uses monorail sprites.
03:37:18 <DaleStan> No. Period. Because GRFs must be able to rely on reading unifiedmaglev to determine which railsprites to replace with action A.
03:37:30 <Sacro> why not have a seperate system for OpenTTD
03:38:12 <arielcanada> do you guys mind if i ask a non-technical question?
03:38:27 <stevenh> but the point is, it doesn't matter for OTTD which sprites you replace
03:38:33 <DaleStan> Because GRFs do that. And because the first rule of NFO is that once supported, it is *set* *in* *stone*.
03:38:37 <stevenh> I suppose the issue is where the vehicles go.
03:39:02 <DaleStan> The vehicles go on the third track type. That's easy.
03:39:16 <stevenh> if vehicles are always going to be coded to the maglev track-type, then we should lock in 2.
03:39:33 <stevenh> and then let this patch go to trunk immediately with that little change.
03:39:34 *** arielcanada has left #openttd
03:39:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> stevenh: what exactly are you trying to achieve?
03:39:51 <stevenh> and then add a new user-patch for allowing realistic acceleration of 'maglevs'
03:40:24 <stevenh> Eddi|zuHause3, Japan Set wants catenary on maglev... for bullet trains.
03:40:44 <DaleStan> They aren't coded to "maglev". They're coded to 0, 1, or 2. Which strings and sprites correspond to those values depend on the user-specified settings of electrifiedrailway and unifiedmaglev.
03:40:47 *** HerzogDeXtE1 has joined #openttd
03:40:55 <stevenh> there is a variable to set this in the GRF realm, but due to OTTD allowing 4 track types and TTDP 3 there is a slight problem
03:42:06 <stevenh> my assumption to this is that elrails will never be off...
03:42:29 <stevenh> and that ottd has 0,1,2,3
03:43:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, i don't count as a 100% secure source, but my understanding is that grf railtypes are [0,1,2] with a separate "electrified" flag
03:44:22 <DaleStan> Eddi|zuHause3 is correct. you can't code a train to use track type 3 in NFO. You can code 00 (normal or electric, depending on traction setting and electrifiedrails), 01 (monorail or "third", depending on unifiedmaglev), or 02 (maglev or "third", also depending on unifiedmaglev).
03:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> and ottd railtypes are [0,1,2,3], where grf 0 gets mapped to ottd 0, grf 0-E mapped to 1, grf 1 mapped to 2 and grf 2 mapped to 3
03:44:51 <DaleStan> glx: That I like. Committing soon.
03:46:56 <stevenh> how does one code a monorail for ottd?
03:47:03 <stevenh> would they have to turn off elrails?
03:47:34 <glx> ,...,...,...case 0x05: { // Track type
03:47:34 <glx> ,...,...,...,...uint8 tracktype = grf_load_byte(&buf);
03:47:34 <glx> ,...,...,...,...switch (tracktype) {
03:47:34 <glx> ,...,...,...,...,...case 0: rvi->railtype = rvi->engclass >= 2 ? RAILTYPE_ELECTRIC : RAILTYPE_RAIL; break;
03:47:35 <glx> ,...,...,...,...,...case 1: rvi->railtype = RAILTYPE_MONO; break;
03:47:35 <glx> ,...,...,...,...,...case 2: rvi->railtype = RAILTYPE_MAGLEV; break;
03:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, monorails, maglevs and electrified coexist in ottd
03:47:44 <glx> Eddi|zuHause3 is right ;)
03:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> there is no setting comparable to "unifiedmaglev", because it is unnecessary
03:49:07 <stevenh> but that's the issue... it makes a difference and needs to be 'emulated' in OTTD
03:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> if the grf sets monorail type (1), it gets monorail type (2) in ottd, if the grf sets maglev type (2) it gets maglev type (3) in ottd. very simple
03:49:57 <glx> the grf can check if it is openttd and do what it should
03:50:25 <stevenh> OTTD currently just responds with "3"
03:50:31 <DaleStan> But what about grfs created before there was an OpenTTD check?
03:50:44 <stevenh> glx, i like that idea.
03:50:49 <stevenh> i'm just trying to cover all bases.
03:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> it is up to the grf coder to not mix 1 and 2 when he wants all to behave the same
03:52:21 <stevenh> my current issue is that i just have no ability to turn catenary on monorail.
03:52:30 <stevenh> maybe I should just add that flag
03:52:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is purely a ottd-code issue
03:52:44 <DaleStan> Indeed. And most coders obey that. But the other purpose of unifiedmaglev is to report whether "third" uses monorail or maglev sprites, so that GRFs can change the correct sprites. Either unifiedmaglev is 1, and "third" uses monorail sprites, or unifiedmaglev is 2, and "third" uses maglev sprites.
03:52:45 <stevenh> and then have the GRF authors check for OTTD and then set the specific tracktype to have catenary
03:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> catenary is hardcoded to railtype electric
03:53:11 <stevenh> Eddi|zuHause3, yes, it is...
03:53:14 <DaleStan> But what about grfs created before there was a way to set catenary both places?
03:53:18 <stevenh> but sometimes we want it on the other track types too :)
03:53:39 <stevenh> DaleStan, that's why i don't have a solution yet.
03:54:24 <stevenh> that's why I suggested OTTD report "2" for unifiedmaglev and then they'll just all go to track type 3 and hack that.
03:54:44 <stevenh> and then just add a patch to enable realistic accel on the third.
03:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> it should be more or less search&replace for every instance of "type==RAILTYPE_ELECTRIC" to "RailtypeHasCatenary(type)"
03:55:34 <stevenh> Eddi|zuHause3, already done.
03:55:56 <stevenh> for maglev and the currently existing variable to allow catenary on maglev
03:56:04 <stevenh> now i just need one for catenary on monorail
03:56:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> ottd should report "unifiedmaglev off", because it does not unify anything
03:56:17 <DaleStan> glx: should Makefile.setup:61 also be modified.
03:56:46 <stevenh> Eddi|zuHause3, that's also correct, since it doesn't... but the fact is that setting it to "2" just means "maglev is still maglev, no adjustments"
03:57:01 <DaleStan> But "off" can't be reported to GRFs. There is no way to test for on vs off. Only to test for its value.
03:57:08 <stevenh> because on TTDP, unifiedmaglev cannot be "3" if elrails is on
03:57:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> DaleStan: i was under the impression that "off" and "0" mean the same thing
03:58:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it does that for openttd "patches"
03:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> DaleStan: it follows the same reasoning as (int)False == 0
04:00:17 <DaleStan> Sometimes, yes, but not always. You can, for example, set "autorenew 0", in which case vehicles will be auto renewed 0 months after they reach their max age, or you can set "autorenew off", in which case vehicles will not be autorenewed.
04:00:46 <stevenh> ie. the difference between null and 0
04:01:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, yes, but then you have to reserve another value for "off" (like "255")
04:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> in the end, you still have to save that value somewhere
04:02:08 <glx> EXE = $(shell ( [ \( $(ISCYGWIN) -eq 1 \) ] || [ \( $(ISMSYS) -eq 1 \) ] ) && echo .exe ) <-- like this?
04:02:35 <DaleStan> No, you use an array of 256 bits for the on/off settings, and then put the value, if necessary, and un-magic-valued, in some other location.
04:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, yes, but then it would be inconsequent to not allow this bitmask be read by grfs
04:04:46 *** ThePizzaKing has joined #openttd
04:05:08 <DaleStan> Parts of that bitmask are available, as action 7 var 85. However, reading the values was invented much more recently, so instead of the on/off setting of unifiedmaglev, GRFs get to read the low and high bits of the unifiedmaglev setting.
04:06:31 <glx> EXE could be removed ans replaced with REL_EXE
04:08:23 <stevenh> DaleStan, can you please make sense of this: "Converts the maglev engines to monorail and moves to 3rd railtype" ... ie. using maglev graphics but monorail coding (movement/accel/etc) ?
04:08:31 <DaleStan> To facilitate this, "unifiedmaglev off" sets unifiedmaglev's value to 3, until/unless a (post-config-read) check of electrifiedrailways changes it to 1.
04:09:56 <stevenh> so the X2001 will be available on maglev track along with the maglevs and use monorail graphics if I set it to "1"
04:10:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> so then "3" should be the reported value by ottd?
04:10:29 <stevenh> Eddi|zuHause3, and it is.
04:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> (since electrified railway is irrelevant)
04:11:03 <DaleStan> Yes, I guess so. So unifiedmaglev also changes whether the third railtype gets the (user-specified) monorail acceleration setting, or the (independent user-specified) maglev acceleration setting. And stop calling "third" "monorail" or "maglev" The track type is "third", regardless of the track sprites it uses.
04:11:04 <stevenh> but for backwards compatibility-sake, the value cannot be 3 in TTDP if elrails is on.
04:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> but what is the problem with that?
04:13:23 <DaleStan> Because the grfs get both bits, but there has never been any reason to check more than one of them, once it is confirmed that elrails is on. Usually this comes first, and then the grf will use one of those bits to determine whether the value is 1 or 2, and then change the correct track sprites.
04:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> "3" means "monorail stays monorail and maglev stays maglev", what would possibly be a reason to change that?
04:13:26 <stevenh> Well, to tell the truth, I've never hit the situation and therefore don't know.
04:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> DaleStan: so the grf is badly coded, why should we care?
04:14:24 <DaleStan> That's not badly coded. That's the way things have worked for 5+ years.
04:14:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, and 1900 is a leap year since 20 years
04:15:29 <DaleStan> Furthermore, that's the way the documentation says it works, and the documentation, above all else, is the final arbiter on how things work.
04:15:33 <glx> interesting discussion, but I need to sleep :)
04:16:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> at some point you get to the situation when "stick to the old ways at all costs" is not worth it anymore
04:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> just add "this does not work in openttd" to the specs, and you are done...
04:18:29 <DaleStan> Which is the point when you bump the version number in the action 8, or add a flag elsewere so the GRFs can explicitly specify that they understand the new behaviour.
04:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> imho, when you said "unifiedmaglev is always on if electrifiedrailway is on" in the grf specs you put implementation details into the specification, this is bound to cause trouble once such a rather arbitrary limitation is lifted
04:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> also, ottd behaviour is like this for 2 years now... it should have been changed back then
04:36:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> (i mean the grf spec)
05:11:35 *** Singaporekid has joined #openttd
05:53:16 <stevenh> ok, so that means the devs should look at the current catenary on third rail type patch and tell me what they think :)
06:03:57 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
06:25:27 *** Zaviori has joined #openttd
06:33:31 *** Poopsmith has joined #openttd
06:37:44 *** dR3x4cK has joined #openttd
06:56:27 *** ThePizzaKing has joined #openttd
07:54:33 *** gonewacko has joined #openttd
07:57:15 *** gonewacko is now known as GoneWacko
08:23:29 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
08:39:05 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
08:47:39 <Rubidium> Celestar two days in a row? What's happened? :)
08:48:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r12361 /trunk/src/lang/ (16 files): (log message trimmed)
08:48:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-03-12 09:46:45
08:48:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 2 fixed by fukumori (2)
08:48:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 3 fixed, 1 changed by kokobongo (3), thetitan (1)
08:48:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed by arnaullv (2)
08:48:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 2 fixed by Hadez (2)
08:48:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 15 fixed by ThomasA (15)
09:03:56 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
09:15:48 *** Dominik has joined #openttd
09:21:12 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
09:30:36 * peter1138 updates his GRF rail types ideas...
09:30:47 <peter1138> The one that gives us 16 rail types...
09:31:01 <peter1138> And screw TTDPatch's unifiedmaglev setting
09:46:54 <peter1138> (By that I mean I'm not going to let it hold us back, heh)
09:50:12 <Gonozal_VIII> right, why hold back good stuff in open because of some strange cheat in patch
09:51:41 <Celestar> Rubidium: nothing. I hope I'll have a bit more time at my hands
09:52:31 <peter1138> Hmm, regarding FS#1831/FS#1847, could we just add some magic to the registry lookup?
09:52:49 <peter1138> I closed FS#1831 as I was unaware that the registry bit was done in our code :o
09:53:09 <peter1138> Celestar: used by determinerevision.vbs when compiling under MSVC...
09:53:19 <peter1138> (i.e. safe for us sensible people to ignore)
09:54:07 <peter1138> # Hang on to your ego
09:54:57 <larsemil> i found a bug. after ZZZzzz comes up i have to change cursor manually(like choosing a road) for it to change back
10:07:35 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
10:20:31 <yorick> indeed, PCX with 32pbb totaly fails
10:21:03 <yorick> try to make a screenshot with the 32bpp-anim blitter enabled
10:21:20 <yorick> it can't save 32bpp in 8bpp files ;)
10:22:26 * peter1138 doesn't use 32bpp, so isn't bothered ;p
10:23:33 <yorick> I guess if you set fullscreen bpp to 32, it would work for fullscreen
10:24:08 <yorick> I guess you need another screenshot format, for if game isn't built with png
10:24:18 *** stevenh has joined #openttd
10:25:16 <yorick> bmp is kinda stupid on *nix
10:25:33 <stevenh> to all, what would be the damage of changing the realistic acceleration patch boolean to a uint8?
10:25:53 <stevenh> will ottd read that the ini has now a 'bad' value and use the default?
10:25:59 <stevenh> i would like to make it cover maglev as well
10:26:56 <peter1138> 'realistic' needs revamping as it's shit anyway
10:27:26 <peter1138> stevenh: most likely, yes.
10:27:56 <Celestar> peter1138: hey hey :P
10:28:13 <Celestar> it'S the best we had at that time :P
10:29:02 <peter1138> Did you write it? Er, sorry ;)
10:29:35 <stevenh> hmmm.... i'm no physicist...
10:30:00 <stevenh> but it'd be nice to get whatever we have on shinkansen.. i mean.. maglev anyway...
10:30:26 <peter1138> Then I think that's inappropriate.
10:30:47 <peter1138> You're applying realistic acceleration to shinkansen, not maglev.
10:31:23 <stevenh> isn't that a good thing?
10:31:33 <Celestar> what's so bad about the realistic acceleration?
10:31:34 <peter1138> You're thinking TTDPatch ;)
10:31:41 <Celestar> I mean it's been tampered with often enough :P
10:32:00 <Gonozal_VIII> maglev doesn't have friction stuff
10:32:07 <peter1138> Celestar: massive acceleration at low speed seems unfitting for freight, at least.
10:32:42 <stevenh> so you think the current maglev accel is good for shinkansen? ... i'm lost yet again.
10:32:50 *** yorick is now known as Guest1066
10:32:50 *** yorP is now known as Yorick
10:32:58 <Celestar> the SKS acclerates like every other train
10:33:04 <Yorick> electrician failed at replacing a light bulb
10:33:06 <peter1138> stevenh: but I think there are better ways to change it than hacking it in as a patch option.
10:33:26 <Celestar> maglevs have a completely different acceleration
10:34:17 <peter1138> (Yes, I did just add the acceleration property now ;))
10:35:16 <Yorick> peter1138 seems to have an idea/patch for everything...
10:35:25 <Yorick> <yorick> but bjarni finishes things :)
10:36:12 <stevenh> peter1138, that all looks neat
10:36:24 <stevenh> i remember being in this exact situation when coding trams
10:36:42 <stevenh> Oskar said to wait for newroutes... i... started anyway
10:36:46 <stevenh> i'll sit down and shut up this time.
10:36:50 <Celestar> does Bjarni still exist?
10:37:09 <stevenh> can I please make TE show for third rail though?
10:37:28 <stevenh> oh... it wont be calculated anyway...
10:37:33 <stevenh> tractive effort, or whatever it is
10:37:49 <peter1138> stevenh: i started that as oskar seems to have stopped developing for ttdpathc.
10:38:04 <peter1138> ah, well te won't be used
10:38:12 <peter1138> not while it's using maglev acceleration, heh
10:38:13 <Celestar> how'S The Patch doing?
10:38:34 <stevenh> yeah, exactly... the main goal of the japanset coder was to get TE to show...
10:38:42 <stevenh> but that's pointless if the rest isn't enabled.
10:38:43 <peter1138> Celestar: freight acceleration: i think the problem is just because trains *can* accelerate fast, doesn't mean they do
10:38:52 <peter1138> i may be wrong, i'm not a train spotter, heh
10:39:15 <Celestar> peter1138: I can conduct a field test if you wish. There's a hugeass freight station round the corner
10:39:23 <stevenh> seems turning realistic_accel to a uint8 breaks save-game compatibility anyway
10:40:00 <peter1138> also, feel free to add any further ideas to that page :)
10:40:20 <stevenh> let me get an idea of the entirety of ottd first
10:40:47 <peter1138> Celestar: bah, they're not accelerating at all :)
10:40:57 <stevenh> Celestar, shite, that's awesome
10:41:01 <Celestar> peter1138: just click-and-drag
10:41:20 <Celestar> stevenh: that's one of the freight terminals in town
10:41:45 <Celestar> this is the other one
10:42:58 <stevenh> my town has a branch of a branch and a pax service twice daily
10:43:04 <Celestar> and that'S the main passenger terminal
10:43:08 <stevenh> for the capital of a country.. that's pretty lame
10:43:28 <Celestar> stevenh: what country is that :P
10:43:37 <peter1138> my local rubbish ;)
10:44:49 <stevenh> peter1138, why does everyone always leave me with huge decisions? :)
10:45:09 <stevenh> for now, compatibilty reasons... can you throw in the catenary on third rail patch?
10:45:27 <stevenh> like not being able to enable realistic accel, because it'd be way smarter to help with railtypes
10:46:04 <peter1138> Celestar: impressive isn't it :o
10:46:24 <peter1138> stevenh: well, i think we're not doing anything new for 0.6... bug fixes only
10:46:49 <peter1138> but otherwise your patch is now fine as the test is in one place -- it'll be easy enough to change it later to do what we want.
10:47:02 <Celestar> peter1138: mightily impressive
10:47:34 <stevenh> that group of rolling stock you can see in that shot is the railway museum
10:47:41 <stevenh> that i help volunteer with...
10:47:54 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
10:47:59 <peter1138> weird, that one looks like a model
10:48:22 <peter1138> i think it's the colouring
10:48:32 <Celestar> stevenh: that's a hugeass station (=
10:49:02 <peter1138> when do we get airports like that in ottd? :D
10:49:27 <Celestar> peter1138: well the thing is, it uses as much space as a 50k town, do we want airports that large?
10:49:44 <Celestar> I mean this thing already has 2 railway station (and a 3rd in planning)
10:49:49 <stevenh> peter1138, is there a branch for railtypes?
10:52:32 *** lobster has joined #openttd
10:53:55 <lobster> shush, you rectum-faced pygmy
10:54:10 <Yorick> remove that quit message, please
10:54:59 <Yorick> stop calling me a vagina, please
10:55:53 <lobster> i see no reason why not
10:56:32 <Yorick> if you see no reason why not...
10:59:55 <stevenh> ugh... what can i help with then? ... pretends to go tinker pixels for the japset.
10:59:59 <peter1138> stevenh: no, i have a mercurial repo, but i don't get on with it too well. so just some patches, heh
11:00:39 <Yorick> the canal lock middle part could be made slope-sensitive
11:01:25 <Yorick> for freeing bits for later
11:01:27 <peter1138> Not much point in doing it unless you have a use for them.
11:03:06 <Yorick> I want to check how many bits would be needed for lively rivers
11:03:38 <peter1138> Yorick: do you think the current 42 bits free isn't enough?
11:03:52 <peter1138> Yorick: do you think the current 36 bits free isn't enough?
11:04:03 <peter1138> Celestar: yeah, let's just add another uint32 to the map array ;)
11:05:09 <peter1138> (For a modern computer capable of running a 2048² map, another 16MB isn't a lot...)
11:05:18 <Yorick> it should contain flow units, depth, reference id to local authority, flow direction, flow state
11:06:07 <peter1138> Why is that needed?
11:06:20 <Yorick> something should protect it...
11:06:28 <Yorick> ability to form lakes, terraform
11:06:53 <Gonozal_VIII> what does that have to do with local authority?
11:07:08 <Yorick> maybe "river controlling unit"?
11:07:18 <peter1138> Trees affect the LA, but don't have a reference to it.
11:07:23 <Yorick> "Lakes and rivers have their own entities like town authorities. This entity decides how the river or lake expands or shrinks depending on water surplus or lack of. Every tile knows its related lake or river."
11:07:40 <Gonozal_VIII> you misunderstood that
11:07:53 <Gonozal_VIII> that means that they act on their own
11:08:07 <Yorick> real rivers don't think, do they?
11:08:09 <peter1138> Oh, so LA does not mean local authority in the usual sense?
11:08:39 <Gonozal_VIII> or something like that
11:08:49 <peter1138> What happens when rivers merge or fork?
11:09:17 <Gonozal_VIII> if they merge, water input is merged too
11:09:24 <Yorick> only merging into sea ;)
11:09:38 <Yorick> sea is some kind of black hole
11:09:45 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess the part after the merge gets a new id then
11:09:45 <peter1138> Uh, rivers should merge...
11:09:50 <Yorick> it can take as much flow units as it wants
11:10:01 <peter1138> And rivers can fork.
11:10:50 <Yorick> is DoDryUp for tiles with ships on it working?
11:11:01 <Yorick> I think the water should be removed and the ship crashed
11:11:06 <Gonozal_VIII> only the end has the ability to expand as long as it's not blocked
11:11:59 <Gonozal_VIII> that's the flooding part... the rest is just flowing
11:12:01 <Yorick> assert(IsCoast(tile)); <-- probably not then
11:12:21 <Yorick> if its blocked, it forms a nicce lake
11:12:45 <Gonozal_VIII> yes but after the valley is filled up, it only escapes in one direction, no fork
11:13:18 <Gonozal_VIII> i know what you mean peter but that would be difficult to implement
11:13:35 <Forked> peter1138: it didn't trigger my hilight, I just randomly looked at the channel =p
11:13:38 <Gonozal_VIII> for the basic stuff that's not needed, can be added later
11:13:40 <Yorick> now you may tell me how RAIL TILES should be able to dry up
11:13:48 <peter1138> rail tiles are dry.
11:13:57 <Yorick> assert(GetRailGroundType(tile) == RAIL_GROUND_WATER);
11:14:23 <peter1138> Oh, magic shores :o
11:14:24 <Gonozal_VIII> if that dries up, rail doesn't have to be changed
11:15:10 <Gonozal_VIII> it's either a foundation or a bridgehead
11:15:46 <Yorick> normal water tiles should be able to dryup aswell
11:15:53 <Yorick> crashing any ships on them
11:16:26 <Gonozal_VIII> that can all be added later
11:18:04 * peter1138 wonders if varaction2 rails are feasible.
11:18:46 <Gonozal_VIII> action 2 stuff should work on action a thingies
11:19:38 <Gonozal_VIII> random or situation based replacement of original sprites, not only for new spritesets
11:20:01 <peter1138> That's no feasible.
11:20:47 <Gonozal_VIII> for example random terrain sprites instead of the same on every tile
11:20:51 *** Dark_Link^ has joined #openttd
11:21:01 <peter1138> If you're doing varaction 2, just use an action 1 instead of action a...
11:22:23 <peter1138> action a is required for terrain only because nobody has coded terrain to use action 1/2/3
11:22:34 <peter1138> (probably that would be very slow)
11:22:54 <Gonozal_VIII> 32bpp stuff is very slow too
11:23:10 <Yorick> coast with railtrack, why not remove the whole coast there?
11:23:41 <peter1138> Yorick: I assume because it was only recently added?
11:23:47 <peter1138> Though I don't knwo.
11:23:58 <Gonozal_VIII> it floods and it could have a different foundation where you see the coast or something...
11:23:59 <peter1138> (What about half rail/half water tiles?)
11:24:08 <Yorick> FLOOD_ACTIVE: 'single-corner-raised'-coast, sea, sea-shipdepots, sea-buoys, sea-docks (water part), rail with flooded halftile
11:24:24 <Yorick> FLOOD_DRYUP: coast with more than one corner raised, coast with rail-track, coast with trees
11:25:23 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII: so write a patch to make terrain drawing using action 1/2/3...
11:29:40 <Yorick> station tiles m5 road stops bit 00..05, wouldn't that only need 3 bits? 2 bits are 4 exit possiblities, bit 3 for drive-through checking, if bit 3 is set, bit 1 and 2 act as direction
11:30:09 * Celestar was thinking the time of bit-saving was over :P
11:30:33 <Celestar> peter1138: work safe?
11:31:34 <Yorick> 000: exit towards NE,010: exit towards SE,110: exit towards SW,100: exit towards NW,011: drive through X,101: drive through Y
11:32:04 <Yorick> you should ban yourself now :)
11:32:46 <Yorick> no offtopic youtube links thingy has been removed
11:32:59 <Celestar> what was the name of the UK show where they do all kinds of funky stuff to cars?
11:35:26 <Yorick> railway station platforms could be autodetected :)
11:36:00 <Yorick> you're using 7 bits for it now
11:36:38 <peter1138> Only 3 bits are needed for that. 8 bits is a leftover from when the station type was not stored.
11:37:03 <Yorick> 00..01 open platform 02..03 open platform with station building 04....07 roofed platform
11:42:45 <stevenh> mofo...there needs to be more oranges in the TTD palette
11:43:56 <peter1138> And people still aren't making 32bpp sets for OpenTTD :o
11:44:14 <stevenh> it's happening slowly...
11:44:25 <stevenh> it's still too soon...
11:44:38 <stevenh> you know the rule... you can't just stop supporting 'the other one'
11:44:52 <peter1138> Well there's the whole "must replace everything!!!" stuff...
11:44:52 <Yorick> problem is the insane amounts of cpu use for me with 32bpp
11:45:04 <peter1138> But no 32bpp stuff to go along with a NewGRF.
11:45:35 <Yorick> only applying a new gui makes the mouse go stuck
11:46:10 <Yorick> it doesn't use SDL for that, does it?
11:47:10 <peter1138> SDL is basically used for setting up a drawing surface.
11:47:18 <Yorick> even when there are no 32bpp sprites seen, the cpu use is high
11:47:22 <peter1138> (Unless you're using GDI...)
11:48:00 <Yorick> yes, sprite_cache_size is set to 64 ;)
11:48:18 <peter1138> Seems to use a very similar amount of CPU for me.
11:48:26 <peter1138> (With no 32bpp sprites loaded)
11:48:35 <Yorick> it takes 34% with 32bpp, and 1% without
11:49:11 <peter1138> Might be a problem there. Under SDL it is fine.
11:50:37 <Yorick> how do I put it on sdl?
11:50:53 <peter1138> (Probably needs compiling for it)
11:50:56 <Yorick> "there is no such video driver"
11:51:45 <Yorick> and how do I compile for it on mingw?
11:53:30 <Yorick> how do I do that in general?
11:54:45 *** Progman has joined #openttd
11:55:13 <peter1138> It may be on the wiki.
11:55:31 <Yorick> at least libsdl.org has instructions :)
11:57:45 <Yorick> great...there is no configure script
12:01:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
12:04:29 *** Osai is now known as Osai^Work
12:05:09 *** Osai^Work is now known as Osai^Work`off
12:06:33 <peter1138> Silly work... requiring me to work indeed :(
12:08:36 <Gekz> I swear the internet is all Germans and lolcats.
12:09:41 * peter1138 adds two more properties to railtypes
12:12:49 <peter1138> If we can add railtypes, why not add speed limits for them?
12:12:55 <peter1138> Seems to be a wanted feature.
12:15:33 <peter1138> int bpp = BlitterFactoryBase::GetCurrentBlitter()->GetScreenDepth();
12:18:42 <Yorick> switching blitters ingame is not possible, is it?
12:19:45 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
12:20:00 <Yorick> short int bpp = BlitterFactoryBase::GetCurrentBlitter()->GetScreenDepth();?
12:23:39 *** Jortuny has joined #openttd
12:27:01 <Yorick> console cmd "script" --> "log"?
12:33:11 *** Rexxars has joined #openttd
12:36:45 <peter1138> Yorick: could be if you wrote supporting code for it, heh
12:37:11 <peter1138> You'd need to half-reset the spritecache though
12:37:43 <Yorick> where are you talking about?
12:37:51 <peter1138> 12:16 Yorick> switching blitters ingame is not possible, is it?
12:39:31 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
12:41:56 <Yorick> no chinese language pack?
12:42:19 <peter1138> You'd need to restart the video driver too... heh
12:42:55 <peter1138> Who knows, maybe the OpenGL driver will become usable one day.
12:49:41 <Yorick> I'm working on a isocode-NETLANG_* conversion
12:50:34 <Yorick> so language could be sent over network
12:50:49 <Yorick> and displayed in the client list, isn't that shiny?
12:51:46 <Yorick> but I wonder if en_GB should be NETLANG_ANY or NETLANG_ENGLISH
13:02:40 *** skidd13_wrk has joined #openttd
13:03:00 *** skidd13_wrk has left #openttd
13:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> * peter1138 wonders if varaction2 rails are feasible. <- you mean like customising pylon positions and stuff?
13:17:44 <peter1138> No, I mean chosing sprites to draw.
13:19:09 <Ammler> drwxr-Sr-- 4 ottdcoop ottdcoop 4096 Mar 12 13:10 tags <-- what does "S" mean ?
13:24:24 <Progman> sticky but, but no +x
13:30:15 <Ammler> [14:24] <Progman> sticky but, but no +x <-- and that means?
13:30:49 *** ben_goodger has joined #openttd
13:30:55 <Ammler> take over the rights of folder?
13:31:24 <Progman> new files got chgrp'ed to the directory group owner, yes
13:31:51 <Progman> instead of the user default group id, so other users of the group can still work (and edit) with the files
13:32:23 <Ammler> and how do I keep that "sticky" and add +x?
13:32:47 <Ammler> but then the "S" is gone
13:33:13 <Ammler> drwxr-xr-x 4 ottdcoop ottdcoop 4096 Mar 12 13:10 tags
13:34:09 <Yorick> hmm..._langpack appears to be global, but isn't
13:34:25 <Ammler> Progman: doesn't change anything
13:34:52 <peter1138> Yorick, it is 'global' scope
13:35:03 <Progman> thats how it works, you did something wrong ;)
13:38:48 <Ammler> I did a+x, else is everything the same
13:39:12 <Progman> what did you have and what did you want now?
13:40:12 <Ammler> that folder won't be written from server...
13:42:48 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
13:42:54 <Yorick> src/network/network_client.cpp:926: error: switch quantity not an integer }|
13:43:06 <Yorick> since when does it have to be?
13:43:50 <peter1138> glx, is it possible to add the 64/32bit conversion shit to determineversion.vbs?
13:44:36 <peter1138> Just another registry look up if the first one returns... empty I assume. I don't really know how it all works.
13:46:42 <glx> the problem is (as I understand it) 32bits app can't read 64bit registry
13:47:49 *** Slowpoke has joined #openttd
13:48:06 <Yorick> "On Windows x64, 32-bit programs aren't allowed to read and write in "HKLM\SOFTWARE". Instead they perform there actions in "HKLM\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node". When running the determineversion.vbs from explorer, it gets executed by a 64-bit instance of the interpreter, and it executes normally."
13:48:27 <SmatZ> install 32bit TortoiseSVN then
13:48:40 <Yorick> "he script tries to find Tortoise by looking in the registry for the Key "HKLM\SOFTWARE\TortoiseSVN\Directory"."
13:48:54 <Yorick> installing 32bit SVN fixes the problem
13:49:05 <Yorick> it can't be done anyway else, I think
13:49:55 <Yorick> Project Manager action pending. See the History tab for details. <-- what does that mean?
13:50:11 <SmatZ> or TortoiseSVN can be patched to write to HKLM\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node too
13:50:35 <Yorick> open a bug report there
13:50:49 <glx> I may have found a solution :)
13:50:53 <SmatZ> I do not have any problem with that...
13:51:26 <SmatZ> glx: use 64bit application (cmd?) to access the registry? :)
13:52:29 <peter1138> Hmm, then I misunderstood it some more :)
13:52:48 <glx> no a special flag (but I don't know if it's possible in vbs)
13:52:58 *** Draakon has joined #openttd
13:57:13 <Yorick> so I can't switch according to strings ?!
13:58:10 <SmatZ> you are comparing pointers then
13:59:05 <Yorick> hmm...I'll put a paste
14:01:03 <Yorick> then tell me how to do it
14:01:05 <SmatZ> Yorick: most likely it won't work - the only case it would work would be if _langpack->isocode was a pointer to one of those strings :)
14:01:38 <Yorick> _langpack.isocode, it should have been
14:01:42 <SmatZ> if they were merged by optimisiation with another string with the same text.. so it coule be addressable
14:02:05 <SmatZ> Yorick: do a static table
14:02:15 * Yorick does not know what that means yet
14:03:00 <SmatZ> struct LangCodes { const char *langstring; uint8 netlang; };
14:03:06 <SmatZ> and then make array of LandCodes
14:03:17 <SmatZ> or if anyone has a better solution...
14:04:10 <SmatZ> (better LangMapping or so, not plural)
14:05:25 * Belugas kinda rememebers having a code like that in some newgrf_text files...
14:05:59 <Yorick> you guys let me figure out it doesn't work every time, don
14:06:31 <Belugas> no... true... you shold bring up the ideas, and we should code them right away...
14:07:52 <Belugas> Yorick, look at newgrf_text.cpp:97 you might find it usefull
14:08:23 *** lobster is now known as crabster
14:08:40 *** crabster is now known as lobster
14:09:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
14:14:39 *** NukeBuster has left #openttd
14:14:55 * Yorick is happy with his text editor with macros!
14:21:59 *** LordAzamath has joined #openttd
14:23:45 <lobster> hmm, no patchbot here eh
14:23:48 <DorpsGek> LordAzamath: I have not seen lakie.
14:24:07 <lobster> how rare though, "Dorpsgek"
14:24:23 <lobster> as you are most likely aware of
14:25:20 <DorpsGek> Draakon: dih* could be dih (15 hours, 3 minutes, and 47 seconds ago), dih_ (3 weeks, 0 days, 20 hours, 26 minutes, and 55 seconds ago), dihedral (8 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 12 minutes, and 47 seconds ago), dihedral_ (16 weeks, 6 days, 18 hours, 36 minutes, and 2 seconds ago), dihedral|work (19 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 16 minutes, and 37 seconds ago), dihedral|lunch (19 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 33 minutes, and 44 seconds (1 more message)
14:26:05 <DorpsGek> Celestar: richk* could be RichK67 (28 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 43 minutes, and 51 seconds ago) or RichK67_ (31 weeks, 0 days, 14 hours, 55 minutes, and 57 seconds ago)
14:26:10 <LordAzamath> Draakon: You can also try an h :P
14:26:21 <LordAzamath> delete the space :P
14:26:56 <Draakon> who the heck is SpBot in this channel?
14:27:41 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: SpBot was last seen in #openttd 13 weeks, 4 days, 13 hours, 51 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <SpBot> I stand by my right to remain silent
14:28:00 <SmatZ> he seems to be reamin silent
14:28:19 <Yorick> he's a bot, what did you think?
14:28:54 <Yorick> he remains with SpComb, I think
14:29:39 <Yorick> [15:29] CTCP/VERSION reply from SpBot : SpBotII
14:30:50 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
14:32:55 <peter1138> Is there a Windows SFTP client?
14:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> SSH Secure Shell?
14:33:14 <Gonozal_VIII> what does the s mean?
14:33:33 <Yorick> or you could try tunneling ;)
14:34:19 <Gonozal_VIII> i use smartftp... smart starts with s, yay :-)
14:34:59 <Yorick> filezilla supports SFTP
14:35:40 <larsemil> winscp and filezilla are good
14:36:21 <Yorick> so, how do I take _langpack to network_client.cpp?
14:37:11 <Yorick> because I need to get the current isocode used
14:37:38 *** Leviath has joined #openttd
14:38:04 <Yorick> and extern LanguagePack _langpack; fails; undefined reference
14:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> what do you need isocodes for?
14:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> languages have internal representations all over the place
14:41:23 *** stavrosg has joined #openttd
14:46:59 <Gonozal_VIII> slow internet sucks
14:49:40 <Belugas> work@work sucks even more
14:50:35 <Gonozal_VIII> possible... but i'm not part of the working class^^
14:51:04 <Yorick> Eddi: yes, but I need to be sure that the thing stays the same when the languages change
14:52:20 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
14:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> Yorick: why? can it change within the same version?
14:53:22 <Yorick> no, but updating it every change to language files isn't very nice, is it?
14:53:32 <Yorick> and webtranslator2, how should it cope?
14:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> errr... what?!?
14:54:08 <Yorick> ah...you can't have static externs :)
14:54:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> the more you talk, the more i think you are tackling the wrong feature in the totally wrong way
14:55:40 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3, seems to happen all the time :o
15:03:19 <peter1138> Just write a function in strings.cpp that returns the current iso code.
15:03:28 <peter1138> No need to expose the struct everywhere else.
15:03:45 <peter1138> Why is that needed, anyway?
15:04:05 <Yorick> because it needs it with the extern for some reason, but good idea anyway :)
15:04:31 <peter1138> Yet again you missed the point.
15:04:39 <peter1138> Why is it needed to send the client's language?
15:04:48 <Yorick> because you can then display flags
15:05:20 <Yorick> "and why would you do that" "because I like hammering cluelessly"
15:05:30 <peter1138> What if I change language mid-game? heh...
15:06:02 * peter1138 attempts to figure out Filezilla.
15:06:08 <peter1138> It's not as good as Nautilus :o
15:06:18 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm language flags in the client list? somehow that makes sense
15:06:25 *** dR3x4cK has joined #openttd
15:06:46 <Gonozal_VIII> very unexpected from yorick^^
15:06:54 <peter1138> "Can not enumerate files in directory 'C:\Documents and Settings\' (error 5: access is denied.)"
15:07:26 <Yorick> maybe you should undeny it :)
15:07:39 <Yorick> or just click my documents directly
15:07:39 <Rubidium> peter1138: not much, except that there will be an inconsistency between the server and one of it's clients... strangely enough it sometimes happens that the client gets booted from the server when there is an inconsistency between the server and (one of) it's clients.
15:07:47 <peter1138> Oh, I need C:\Users, anyway...
15:08:13 <Yorick> just, but a harmless flag is not a significant inconsistency
15:08:25 <Yorick> and that could be fixed by PACKET_CLIENT_CHANGE_LANG anyway
15:08:48 <Rubidium> I've heard that before
15:09:45 <Rubidium> well, rather the "a harmless ... is not a significant inconsistency" thingy
15:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, like yapf caches ;)
15:10:36 <Yorick> client_lang isn't exchanged or checked somewhere, because it wasn't even used
15:10:42 <Rubidium> or when NewGRFs start reading such data
15:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> i was just about to write that
15:11:29 <Yorick> they read their own data ;)
15:11:46 <Yorick> and that data is updated when clients change language
15:12:13 <Yorick> we don't have MP-aware grfs yet, do we?
15:12:39 <Rubidium> with emphasis on the yet, yes
15:13:33 <Rubidium> but that doesn't mean that because we do not use it *now* it is totally irrelevant whether it is in sync or not, especially when you plan to use it on clients
15:13:35 <Yorick> when we do, code could always be updated to update langs
15:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is not very convincing
15:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> because when somebody decides to use it, he does not necessarily know anymore that it is not in sync
15:14:34 <Yorick> anyway, it would require a new packet
15:14:39 <Rubidium> yeah... it's just forgotten and someone spends a few days hunting a desync that no one knows how to trigger until we force the nightly users to run a crappily slow version of OpenTTD to check all kinds of game states.
15:14:49 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm dunno why i think of that now... but... ai-grf
15:15:07 <Yorick> or they find out it happens when someone changes language
15:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: horrible idea ;)
15:15:22 <Gonozal_VIII> should be possible to change the ai behaviour with a grf
15:15:33 <Yorick> btw, the lang is even inconsistent on the client when someone changes it ;)
15:15:41 *** Aerandir has joined #openttd
15:15:49 <peter1138> IIRC there is a GRF accessible flag for whether we are a server or a client...
15:16:02 <peter1138> Needless to say, we don't return anything different for either state.
15:16:12 <peter1138> Unless I'm making that up.
15:18:17 <Yorick> \src\lang\brazilian_portuguese.txt:1810: FATAL: Invalid case-name 'f
15:18:25 <Rubidium> Yorick: that's not as bad as giving the 'illusion' that other clients have the same data as your client has. Now the clients know nothing about the language of other clients, so no assumptions about the correctness can be given.
15:19:15 <Yorick> but here, its true, the ci->client_lang isn't updated on the client when the language has changed
15:19:24 <Yorick> so everyone has the same ci->client_lang
15:19:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> Yorick: then fix it
15:20:20 <Yorick> that would require changing the network, adding another packet
15:21:02 <Belugas> better fixing than patching
15:21:14 <Belugas> no offense meant to TTDPatch..
15:21:36 <Yorick> :D you are probably right if I want to make any trunkanizing chance
15:23:55 <Yorick> the last webtranslator update caused a bug in brazilian_portuguese
15:24:01 <Yorick> \src\lang\brazilian_portuguese.txt:1810: FATAL: Invalid case-name 'f
15:25:13 <Belugas> i need coffee.... badly
15:25:55 <Yorick> it prints a nice warning, from which I think I caused it, because I do something with the language system :)
15:26:22 <Rubidium> nah, some Brazilian broke the translation
15:28:53 <Yorick> now I need to fix server flag
15:29:35 <DorpsGek> LordAzamath: skidd13 was last seen in #openttd 21 hours, 9 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <skidd13> damn brackets....
15:29:59 <LordAzamath> ok.. if anyone sees skidd13, please call me :)
15:30:53 <Belugas> wouhou! My lego pieces have finally been delivered :D
15:30:55 <Rubidium> that's too expensive for me
15:31:10 <Rubidium> (the calling part that is)
15:32:28 <LordAzamath> Rubidium: Well.. calling could mean just saying my name too :P
15:32:32 <Yorick> hmm...where is the server client entry setting-up
15:33:13 <Rubidium> the distance is too large for you to hear me, unless you're in Nagasaki
15:34:02 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
15:34:18 <Gonozal_VIII> don't forget your anti rad suit
15:35:19 <Rubidium> nah, not needed, I fear more for the "rediation" when walking to the "meseum"
15:35:26 * Yorick remembers "Sacro: ga met een poes spelen" from random quotes, I guess the one who said that will know :)
15:39:48 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
15:42:39 *** HerzogDeXtE1 has joined #openttd
15:47:16 *** sickie88 has joined #openttd
15:48:25 <Yorick> hmm...it appears that the client list window on a server has no name on it untill you get your mouse over it(redrawn?)
15:50:07 * Yorick adds InvalidateWindow(WC_CLIENT_LIST, 0); to end of PACKET_CLIENT_JOIN
15:57:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12362 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix (r11985, r12006): Randomize variable 8F only once per callback 28.
16:03:09 <Gonozal_VIII> why is the server not the first in the list?
16:03:23 <Yorick> because the screenshot isn't taken from the server
16:03:41 <Yorick> I don't know how the sorting goes, but AFAIK, the current client is always first
16:03:47 *** raimar2 has joined #openttd
16:04:01 *** NukeBuster has left #openttd
16:04:08 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm possible... i'm always hosting so i wouldn't know
16:06:06 <Yorick> so you guys want me to have a change language displayed everywhere?
16:07:10 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
16:08:11 <Yorick> "SetWidgetDisabledState, LoweredState, RaiseWindowWidget and a few other similar identifiers were removed. I don't really understand what they were replaced with though. Can anyone help please?"
16:08:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
16:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> Yorick: replaced by class members
16:13:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> like Widget::SetDisabledState or something
16:13:55 <Yorick> someone should post that in the chrisin topic
16:13:58 <glx> SetWidgetDisabledState(w, ...) => w->SetWidgetDisabledState(...)
16:16:37 <Gonozal_VIII> that function has a * in front... that's scary
16:17:10 <Yorick> every function there has a *, so I thought I should just add one
16:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> i still have no idea why you must reference languages by isocodes
16:18:42 <Yorick> because not every language has a NETLANG_ entity
16:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> and why is that an issue?
16:21:09 <Yorick> why should I NOT reference languages by isocodes?
16:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> because you need such a translation table
16:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> which in the best case just adds redundancy
16:21:51 <Yorick> and you wouldn't when using identd?
16:22:47 <Yorick> isocode is the only thing that is guaranteed to stay the same
16:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> when there already is NETLANG_*, why introduce a new system?
16:23:20 <Yorick> +check newgrf_text.cpp:97 before complaining to me
16:23:50 <Yorick> how would you have done it then?
16:27:09 <Sacro> what's the name of the game? can you feel it the way i do...
16:28:37 <Yorick> I'm not going to repeat again, just look at the screenshot of that patch
16:28:48 <Yorick> Belugas: what's messy?
16:29:13 <Yorick> please be more specific :)
16:29:42 <Belugas> code duplication, repetitive use of a function while a var collecting the initial reuslt would ahev been better,
16:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> you have code duplication
16:30:24 <peter1138> that table shouldn't be in a header
16:30:55 <Yorick> so where should it be?
16:31:00 <Belugas> and why not tackle the newgrf_text.cpp one, by the way... it wild have been way bettter
16:31:29 <Yorick> because that doesnt give me NETLANG results
16:31:48 <Yorick> my table is veryy different
16:31:55 <Yorick> {"fy_NL", NETLANG_DUTCH},
16:31:57 <Belugas> didn't meant USE IT AS SUCH
16:32:15 <Belugas> poor Yorick... lot to learn
16:32:28 <peter1138> Alas, poor yorick. I knew him Horatio
16:32:35 <Yorick> everyone should start somewhere
16:32:46 <Sacro> peter1138: a man of infinate jest
16:33:07 <Yorick> but where is that repetitive use of a function while a var collecting the initial reuslt would ahev been better,?
16:33:18 <peter1138> Two loops doing the same thing?
16:33:43 <Yorick> loops still need to be moved to one function
16:34:05 <peter1138> No, I'm still employed.
16:34:28 <Yorick> for (i=0; i < lengthof(iso_netlangs); i++) { is thwer
16:35:16 <Yorick> once for converting the server lang, (from which I think o f it, why not use the server_lang selected by the user?)
16:35:33 <Yorick> ooh...nice GeekToo-patched thingy :)
16:36:29 <Yorick> but it doesn't align to eachother correctly
16:39:37 <Gonozal_VIII> oh noes, jutub, kick!
16:42:13 <frosch123> it is hard to avoid that video these days
16:44:44 <Yorick> I've made the whole table a local one :)
16:48:59 <Yorick> but I still wonder how I'll send a changed language to the server
16:49:07 <Yorick> server>clients isn't very hard ;)
17:06:01 <Belugas> Yorick: "if (strncmp(iso_netlangs[i].code, GetCurrentIsoCode(), strlen(iso_netlangs[i].code)) == 0) {"
17:09:31 <Belugas> Yorick, if i were you, i would add the netLangID to the iso_grf struct and on the iso_codes array of newgrf_text.cpp
17:09:42 <Belugas> it wold make a lot more sens
17:10:01 <Belugas> a second array based on very similar data is just ...
17:12:30 <Noldo> SmatZ: hi, does "maybe it IS a good idea, but done wrong" mean you know a right way?
17:15:33 <Yorick> but, the array on the iso_codes contains a few different things
17:16:11 <Yorick> and if so, I think it should be placed somewhere else, strings.cpp?
17:16:53 <SmatZ> Noldo: if it HAS to be object oriented... you can use static pointer of type ShipPf, pointing to ShipPf_something... but it would cause double memory access for one function call
17:17:20 * SmatZ doesn't think OOP is a good idea here
17:17:31 * SmatZ doesn't think OOP is good
17:18:36 <SmatZ> Noldo: allocating memory each time FindShipDepot() (without freeing it later:) is the best way to make game slower and memory hungry
17:20:05 <Belugas> [13:15] <Yorick> but, the array on the iso_codes contains a few different things <-- like?
17:20:26 <Noldo> I don't know how I forgot the freeing but that part is hardly in it's final form anyway
17:20:44 <Yorick> hmm...maybe not, and about the second one/
17:21:15 <Belugas> [13:17] * SmatZ doesn't think OOP is good <--- I do not agree. It does server purpose when well designed
17:22:32 <SmatZ> Belugas: "delete vehicle;" causes all virtual function pointers of Vehicle:: to be overwritten by those used for Vehicle and InvalidVehicle
17:26:05 <fjb> Is it possible to have snow in temparete climate in r12345?
17:26:22 <Belugas> don't judge a concept by one wrong inmplementation, SmatZ :)
17:27:30 <Belugas> it is, fjb, but it will be inmplemented with quite a massive grf...
17:27:38 <DorpsGek> Yorick: Commit by glx :: r12345 trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp (2008-03-05 22:05:22 UTC)
17:27:39 <DorpsGek> Yorick: -Fix [FS#1828](r12296): don't try to restore backupped timetable when timetabling is disabled
17:28:15 <glx> Yorick: how is that related to the question?
17:28:44 <glx> fjb: it's not possible indeed
17:29:12 <Belugas> not natively, that is
17:29:40 <Belugas> as there is no way to indicated snow line
17:29:56 <Belugas> but to replace all tiles by snow ones...
17:30:41 <Barry> Belugas do you know if it is possible to decrease the size of a scenario file
17:32:26 <Belugas> remove stuff from it,
17:32:48 <Belugas> and i think making it flat as much as possible might.
17:32:57 <Barry> Sorry i mean this size from 1024x1024 to 512x512
17:33:01 <Belugas> but that will only reduce the saved size
17:33:07 <SmatZ> flatten in to water lavel
17:33:31 * SmatZ should go back to coding :)
17:33:41 <Barry> Shit. I have a very nice scaneario of tThe Netherlands but is is too big
17:33:49 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
17:34:07 <fjb> Belugas: A grf like Alpine climate that disguises arctic as temparete?
17:34:23 <Belugas> but the other way around :)
17:34:43 <Belugas> Barry, i thuink there are a few netherlands scenario available on forums
17:34:55 <Belugas> maybe you do not need to start from scratch
17:35:24 <Barry> I have found 2. 1 very nice but very big, other not so nice
17:36:43 <Barry> Anyway the problem with that scenario is that when I move my mouse over a town the scrolling is going very slow. When I go over a small town scrolling is on normal speed
17:37:54 *** anhedral is now known as dih
17:38:03 <SmatZ> Barry: rendering houses takes more time I guess
17:39:27 <Barry> Anybody want to test the game if he has the same problem?
17:39:58 <SmatZ> why are people ignoring me :-/
17:39:59 <Belugas> and get fired? no thanks, i'll pass
17:40:56 <BrDead> Hey, I found a bug in Finnish translation, where should I contact? (Playing 0.5.3)
17:41:12 <Belugas> i know SmatZ :) You do not have a big flashy avatar :D
17:41:15 <Gonozal_VIII> don't report 0.5.3 bugs...
17:41:38 <Belugas> BrDead, try nightlies or beta. It might have already fixed
17:42:01 * SmatZ is going to make a "big flashy avatar" :-)
17:43:23 <Belugas> the suggestion is not a stupid one, by the way... the many-industries-of-this-type, i mean
17:44:31 <BrDead> Well, I prefelably play the version I have, don't have eagerness to update to beta. When the new version comes out, I'll see if it has already been corrected.
17:44:37 *** skidd13 has joined #openttd
17:44:59 <SmatZ> Belugas: there could be 3 buttons: "fund, prospect, prospect many"
17:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> BrDead: ideally, you report bugs BEFORE the release
17:46:29 <Belugas> well... iirc, or iiuic, it was about scenario, not game play. So something to multiple randomly place many industries of same type
17:46:41 <Belugas> not in game play. would not make sens...
17:47:06 <Belugas> [13:45] <Eddi|zuHause3> BrDead: ideally, you report bugs BEFORE the release
17:47:15 <Belugas> so it takes longer for the release to be..
17:49:19 <fjb> Never report bugs to get a faster release cycle.
17:49:51 <dih> one keeps the bug reports until after the rlease of a .0
17:50:09 <dih> nobody wants something like that, then at least one supports a sonner release of a minor version ^^
17:53:46 <Gonozal_VIII> people shouldn't be so afraid of the nightlies and betas
17:55:22 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:57:33 <fjb> They don't bite, they only want to play.
17:58:08 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
17:59:16 <Nitro> Well, whenever I build one, it gets super-popular and ends up with 1-6k with mailbags.
17:59:28 <Nitro> it's impossible to keep up!
17:59:37 <Gonozal_VIII> refit some planes to mail...
17:59:37 <dih> how about refitting plains
17:59:55 <Gonozal_VIII> [18:59:35] <Gonozal_VIII> refit some planes to mail...
17:59:56 <Gonozal_VIII> [18:59:35] <dih> how about refitting plains
18:00:07 <dih> [18:59] <dih> how about refitting plains
18:00:07 <dih> [18:59] <Gonozal_VIII> refit some planes to mail...
18:00:09 <Nitro> Gonozal_VIII beat you dih. :P
18:00:24 <Nitro> but it was a close match
18:00:34 <ln-> does anyone have an Optimus Keyboard yet?
18:00:45 <Gonozal_VIII> does it transform?
18:00:56 <dih> the entire keyboard does Gonozal
18:01:12 <dih> so if you want to play ball - just press a button
18:01:22 <dih> well - its a keyboard, so press a key
18:01:34 <ln-> ~1400 euros is not a bad price for a keyboard, is it?
18:01:55 <dih> buttonboard sounds like a rude nickname for a girl...
18:03:20 <Yorick> try this one: ttp://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs125&d=08113&f=screenshot_1862.png
18:04:45 <Gonozal_VIII> nothing changed?
18:05:06 <Yorick> yes, in the background
18:05:29 <Noldo> Yorick: can you make online translation based on those setting for the chat?
18:06:01 <Yorick> that will look kinda strange
18:06:05 <Gonozal_VIII> because online translation works so very good
18:06:26 <Yorick> and has absolutely no visible delays!
18:06:48 <dih> now just make sure that people can only join servers markd with their lang or LANGUAGE_ANY ^^
18:07:25 <Yorick> so I can't join an english server :o
18:07:28 *** sickie88 is now known as SickieAway
18:07:35 <Yorick> I'll just change my language :)
18:08:19 <dih> only if the server is not set to any ^^
18:08:30 <dih> i think i'll set openttdcoop to NONE ^^
18:10:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12363 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not allow building 'zero' road bits
18:25:09 <SmatZ> Wolf01: how is your "lego" project going?
18:26:10 <Wolf01> I need to organize some ideas to continue it
18:26:38 <Wolf01> but I should go to buy some spare time first
18:29:59 * Belugas wishes a happy conclusion to the brickland project
18:30:33 <Wolf01> it is playable, the terrain is almost finished
18:30:58 <Wolf01> I'm trying to draw the rough land and the rocks
18:33:19 <Belugas> take your time, don't fall uncder the pressure... Good things take time :D
18:33:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
18:34:09 <SmatZ> hello Bjarni, the autoreplace dev! :-D
18:34:11 <Prof_Frink> Good things come to those who get bored and wander off
18:35:06 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> hello Bjarni, the autoreplace dev! :-D <-- you need me to automatically replace the clients in this channel?
18:35:30 <Bjarni> I can start by getting rid of the unwanted stuff xD
18:36:50 <peter1138> Urgh, using a CRT after using LCDs for ages...
18:37:00 <peter1138> Sure, the colours and response are nicer... but it's CURVED
18:37:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> i had a flat CRT
18:37:56 <Prof_Frink> peter1138: Get a retina laser projector
18:38:19 <fjb> Does nfo have a kind of nop opcode?
18:38:35 <Prof_Frink> Or an optic nerve brainial implant
18:39:16 * Belugas switches from LCD to CRT daily... never noticed it.. a bit like habit :)
18:39:35 <Belugas> fjb, yes it is action 0C ( i think )
18:40:28 <Belugas> Georges uses it a lot for commenting
18:40:36 <fjb> Belugas: Found it. Thank you. I was to blind to see it.
18:41:56 <peter1138> My 'flat' CRT is too large, and, er, still curves a bit.
18:42:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> well... switching from 16:10 to 4:3 disturbs me more...
18:45:18 <peter1138> I'm going to assume we're leaving FS#1264 in as a 'known limitation' for 0.6?
18:45:49 * Belugas has a 19 inch CRT at home and 2 19inch LCD at work. Only missing the dual monitors, when at home
18:46:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have 22" Widescreen LCD at home
18:47:15 <Tefad> i have dual 19" CRT at home
18:47:31 <SmatZ> I don't, and I don't really mind :)
18:47:44 <Belugas> my boss has a 42" LCD
18:48:08 * SmatZ talks something about money spent on LCD instead of wages....
18:48:13 * orudge has a 22" 16:10 TFT, and a 17" 5:4 TFT
18:48:15 <Belugas> he bough it because he does not have to use his glasses anymore :D
18:48:53 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
18:48:55 <SmatZ> LCDs are rather cheap now...
18:49:12 <Belugas> FS#1264 seems like... "Won't Fix"
18:49:12 <orudge> CRTs are nigh on impossible to buy these days
18:49:18 <orudge> not that I have any desire for one, no room
18:49:29 <SmatZ> Belugas: I hope "Will fix"
18:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> FS#1264 sounds like "we need a sandbox to test commands"
18:50:21 *** Frostregen_ has joined #openttd
18:50:37 * peter1138 Jean-Michel Jarres...
18:51:58 <peter1138> No, I am Jean-Michael Jarreing...
18:54:06 <SmatZ> mmm interesting music :)
18:56:31 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
18:57:39 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
19:01:14 <fjb> How can I find out why a grf gets deaktivated? Is there a debugging option in OpenTTD?
19:01:17 <Gonozal_VIII> burns everything?
19:01:44 <glx> fjb: usually it shows a message in the newgrf window
19:02:26 <peter1138> debug_level grf=255 :D
19:02:44 <fjb> glx: It doesn't show any any usable information.
19:02:53 <fjb> peter1138: Ok I will try that.
19:02:55 <peter1138> Maybe 255 isn't too useful... hehe
19:03:05 <Yorick> grfs get deactivated because they deactivate themselves ;)
19:03:33 <Yorick> then you deactivated it
19:04:14 <fjb> But I don't know where. Don't know much nfo yet. So I must have done a mistake. So I need to debug it.
19:04:53 <peter1138> Hmm, FS#1832: Is 254 station parts per station enough?
19:05:33 <peter1138> Do you know what I'm talking about?
19:06:52 <SmatZ> "There is a reason. I just can't remember it any more." :)
19:07:00 <Yorick> I think only different dirs need different parst
19:07:02 <Noldo> the example station has 2?
19:08:09 <peter1138> Noldo: in openttd it is merged to one part as they are the same type
19:08:47 <peter1138> this means "station part" is effectively "number of different types of custom station"
19:08:56 <peter1138> but worded correctly
19:09:25 <peter1138> If each built part is kept separate and not merged, then, for example, placing one of MB's buffer stops will use a part each.
19:09:32 <fjb> level 255 gives a lot of output...
19:09:45 <peter1138> 19:00 @peter1138> Maybe 255 isn't too useful... hehe
19:10:10 <peter1138> I usually send it off to a text file.
19:10:29 <peter1138> Argh, non-linear screen :(
19:10:38 <peter1138> The edges are bunched up compared to the edge...
19:11:54 <peter1138> Oh, there is a button to controller that
19:14:18 <peter1138> Oh 1024x768 @ 43Hz interlaced :o
19:14:27 * peter1138 gouges out his eyes
19:14:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> oh that sounds like fun ;)
19:15:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> i remember my ET4000 graphics card had a mode like that ;)
19:16:12 <peter1138> Was pretty standard back in the day...
19:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> i never used interlaced...
19:18:24 * Belugas listens to his own music
19:18:50 <Belugas> too bad the mastering of the song failed due to not enough place on SD card :(
19:19:49 <fjb> Skipping an action in stage 2. Does that mean OpenTTD doesn't know how to handle it and skips it?
19:20:49 <Belugas> or maybe it was ordered to jump it?
19:21:15 <fjb> Hm, I suspect an endian issue again.
19:29:00 <Bjarni> that's linguistic harassment
19:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's one of THE classic sketches in german TV history
19:33:03 <Bjarni> well it's completely natural to ask for french fries in a prison
19:33:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, that's not the joke...
19:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> he asks for a *bottle* of fries ;)
19:34:04 <fjb> Testing if it is OpenTTD and then skipping the next 5 sprites is "09 9D 04 \7= 01 00 00 00 05" ?
19:35:02 *** dR3x4cK has joined #openttd
19:36:17 * peter1138 ponders a mixed-solution to FS#1832: allocate a new part until it the limit is reached, then start merging pieces.
19:38:09 <fjb> Can I skip over other action 09s? Or does someting evel happen then?
19:39:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it's not really a subway... it's a tram tunnel
19:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> and the song is awesome ;)
19:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> oh, and it is in austria ;)
19:40:15 <Bjarni> that explains everything
19:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> it says "Linz"?
19:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> it is well known that Linz is one of the biggest cities of austria
19:41:41 <Bjarni> I didn't really pay attention and read it as the railroad factory named something like that (they are named Lint or something)
19:48:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, technically, the red light should be enough to "secure" the crossing
19:49:07 <ln-> wtf was the point of that video?
19:49:47 <Bjarni> it is to show what to expect in Germany
19:50:25 <ln-> Bjarni: you should visit irl and not through youtube.
19:50:28 <Bjarni> but... no flashing lights???
19:51:06 <Bjarni> are you saying that I should go to Germany?
19:51:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> the rules say, if a crossing is broken, the train has to stop in front of it, secure the crossing manually, and then start again
19:54:20 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: in rear of it
19:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, the german rules say "vor", not "hinter"
19:55:16 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: it's the same here. There is an exception though. If *anything* on the crossing started then it's broken (not just failure to activate) and any attempts to start it should be skipped
19:55:41 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: english rules use "in rear of" and "in advance of"
19:55:55 <Sacro> "in front of" is ambiguous
19:56:14 <Sacro> if you are in front of the crossing then surely you have it backwards
19:56:18 <Bjarni> one of the very few times I went out with the video camera to record a train happened to be the only time I have seen a working crossing failing to activate o_O
19:56:23 <Sacro> as the crossing is in front of you
19:56:55 <peter1138> "in rear of" makes no sense in English
19:57:34 <Bjarni> Sacro activates on "behind" and "in rear".... go figure :P
19:57:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> but if i stop "behind" a crossing, i have already passed it...
19:58:46 <Sacro> if you are behind another train it is ahead of you
19:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: "secure" the crossing does not mean "start the bars going down"... more like "put someone with a red flag on the road"
19:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> just that a train is ahead of me, does not mean i am behind it
20:01:14 <Yorick> Belugas: is SetCurrentGrfLangID always called when loading openttd?
20:01:34 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: that would need one guy to with a flag AND one to drive the train, hence doubling the needed amount of staff
20:01:52 <Bjarni> sometimes you simply can't do that when you are out there in the real world
20:02:24 <Belugas> Yorick, i wold be very surprised if it does not
20:02:32 <Bjarni> but yes I have been on the road stopping traffic more than once
20:02:45 <Belugas> Yorick but... why don't you test it??
20:03:03 <Yorick> hmm...another problem, ENABLE_NETWORK
20:03:05 <Bjarni> one of the times were planned though because it was on a siding where the crossing had no warning systems at all
20:03:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12364 /trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt: -Fix (r12361): Case attribute for brazilian_portuguese got lost.
20:03:46 <Yorick> when I add all of the netlangs to that newgrf_text.cpp, there is a problem when network disabled
20:04:08 <Belugas> "when I add all of the netlangs" ???? WHAT ????
20:04:34 <Yorick> {"en_US", GRFLX_AMERICAN, NETLANG_ENGLISH},
20:05:24 <Belugas> and " there is a problem when network disabled" ???
20:06:10 <Belugas> was not aware of that one
20:06:27 <Yorick> which basically means having to state the same array twice again ;_
20:06:31 <Belugas> welll than, maybe that def could be removed?
20:07:03 <Yorick> you mean always executing the NETLANG_* enum?
20:07:36 <Yorick> you get what I mean, don't you?
20:07:37 <fjb> Yeah execute it by shooting it.
20:07:51 * Belugas thinks Yorick has OR a communication problem, OR does strange and useless things
20:07:53 <Yorick> always defining an enum
20:09:33 <Yorick> but if I do that, you probably go complaining about that one
20:10:31 *** keyweed_ has joined #openttd
20:11:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
20:13:56 * Belugas thinks, for some reasons, of a led zep song, "Communications BreakDown"...
20:15:23 <Yorick> changing language files basically means recompiling everything :(
20:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> only if you change english.txt ;)
20:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can freely edit the others ;)
20:18:21 <peter1138> # we are observing your earth
20:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> "song of the british government"?
20:26:16 <ln-> Bjarni: Where can I download OTTD for the iPhone?
20:26:35 <ln-> Not that I have an iPhone, I just want to download it.
20:26:49 <hylje> ottd needs a pluggable UI :-)
20:27:47 * SmatZ didn't know iPhone had a screen :-x
20:28:09 <ln-> SmatZ: OTTD doesn't need a screen.
20:28:32 <SmatZ> ah... do you want to host a game for other people? :)
20:29:03 <ln-> But still it's possible. :)
20:30:14 <Bjarni> <ln-> Bjarni: Where can I download OTTD for the iPhone? <-- google it
20:30:27 <Bjarni> <ln-> Not that I have an iPhone, I just want to download it. <-- AFAIK it works on iPod touch as well
20:33:59 <Bjarni> but I think you need to hack your device to install it
20:34:07 <Yorick> ok, thats it for today
20:34:22 <Bjarni> but maybe it can be made to work on unhacked devices with Apple's SDK
20:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... very suspect... the file says "ati driver 8.3" but the installation window says "ati driver 8.471"
20:48:44 *** thgerg1 has joined #openttd
20:48:49 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
20:55:07 *** paulsen has joined #openttd
21:07:34 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
21:24:47 *** Osai^Work`off is now known as Osai
21:35:10 <fjb> Where does OpenTTD set variable 9D? I don't find it in the source.
21:44:22 <fjb> Then I have to emulate 8B and 8D.
21:45:30 <fjb> I want to disguise OpenTTD as TTDP.
21:46:54 <glx> like we do in GetGlobalVariable() ?
21:47:52 <fjb> Oh, you do? I have to look at that. I want to make a GRF to believe it is interpreted by TTDP.
21:49:40 <glx> ottd is ttdp 2.6.1 r1382 IIRC
21:49:45 <peter1138> fjb, CanSet isn't that good ;)
21:50:25 <fjb> peter1138: I don't care. Hacking is the fun, not the set. I even dislike american sets. :-)
21:51:25 <peter1138> It worked for me by just altering the openttd check
21:51:32 <fjb> So it looks like I only have to change line 3539.
21:51:54 <peter1138> But beware; openttdw.grf won't load then.
21:54:49 <fjb> The easy way would be to change Camset. But that is forbidden even for personal use.
21:56:40 <peter1138> so make the change in openttd
21:56:48 <peter1138> dependent on grf id or something liek that
21:57:14 <peter1138> it's before the action 8
21:57:24 <peter1138> so you might need to compare the filename
22:00:20 <fjb> :-) That sounds good. I must be really bored to do that. But on the other hand it is really bad weather outside.
22:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... i shall go and mess up my system now...
22:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> brb... (i hope)
22:01:35 <fjb> Don't we always do that? :-)
22:06:56 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
22:07:25 <fjb> Basing it on the filename could be a feature. You could enable disguising if the filename contains "disguise".
22:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, it actually booted ;)
22:07:35 <fjb> Hi Eddi|zuHause, welcome back. :-)
22:08:04 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
22:09:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... but xv doesn't work...
22:23:27 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
22:26:57 <fjb> Hm, we have dos_to_win_colour_map. Why is it not possible to mix DOS and Windows GRFs then?
22:27:23 <peter1138> It is, if somebody writes it.
22:27:51 <fjb> What is missing? Detecting what kind the GRF is?
22:27:56 <Eddi|zuHause> there needs to be a palette detection
22:28:22 <peter1138> If you assume all NewGRFs are with the Windows palette then it's simple enough.
22:28:42 <fjb> But you can't asume that...
22:28:42 <peter1138> Otherwise, good luck guessing...
22:28:54 <peter1138> You can if you tell everyone they have to use the Windows NewGRFs.
22:29:05 <peter1138> Useful for MP too, heh...
22:29:18 <fjb> How about guessing with a fallback believing it is a Windows GRF?
22:29:56 <peter1138> Indeed, but still, good luck guessing.
22:30:25 <fjb> Really useful for MP. You get buy the DOS Version of TTD, but it is almost impossible to buy the Windows version today.
22:31:39 <peter1138> I bought it on eBay.
22:32:22 <fjb> I bought it on ebay too. It was advertised as the Windows version, but came out as the DOS version.
22:33:55 <peter1138> I got the Tycoon Collection set.
22:34:24 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
22:34:51 <fjb> Is the DOS palette documented anywhere?
22:37:01 <peter1138> Probably. You can just reverse MapDOSColour() though.
22:37:16 <glx> open the pcx ans check the palette
22:38:16 <fjb> Hm, yes, esay to get the palette that way. Why didn't I think about that?
23:05:38 *** Gonozal has joined #openttd
23:05:39 *** Gonozal_VIII is now known as Guest1133
23:05:39 *** Gonozal is now known as Gonozal_VIII
23:21:54 <fjb> Oh, vehicles with a weight of more than 1024 tons are not supported. :-)
23:22:35 <SmatZ> that's a serious design flaw :)
23:23:16 <fjb> Oh, that aplies only to rail vehicles.
23:24:22 <fjb> Would be a flaw if it would apply to ships. But ships have no size. And a heavy ship without any size would probably sink.
23:25:15 <fjb> Hm, TTD ships have to weight nothing to be able to float.
23:26:33 <Patrick`> that limit is for the sake of saving memory, I assume
23:26:45 <Patrick`> let's say you're EXTREME
23:26:50 <Patrick`> and have 1000 trains
23:27:05 <Patrick`> that's a whole extra 1000 bytes to use a regular old int for the mass
23:28:06 <fjb> I don't see that. You already need two bytes fot a weight up to 1024 tons.
23:28:29 <peter1138> No, it's just an arbitrary limit.
23:28:50 <fjb> It is just a funny limit.
23:29:27 <peter1138> Still, a 1024 tonne rail vehicle is pretty heavy.
23:29:32 <fjb> Would giving ships a size break too much of the TTD feeling?
23:30:08 <peter1138> By giving them "size" do you mean giving them bounding boxes so they can collide?
23:30:11 <fjb> Yes 1024 tons are much. I don't know if rail vehicles with that weight do exist.
23:30:51 <fjb> And so the don't pile up at one tile at the harbour.
23:30:56 <peter1138> I believe that's a feature on the wish-lists...
23:31:17 <peter1138> Turn on-and-offable, maybe.
23:31:28 <fjb> It is definitely on my wish list. But would the people accept it?
23:31:40 <peter1138> Actually directly specifying a bounding box might be useful as ships can be rather varied.
23:32:29 <fjb> It should be grfsettable., like other vehicles already do.
23:35:47 <Patrick`> john carmack posting on slashdot
23:37:25 *** dih is now known as anhedral
23:52:51 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
continue to next day ⏵
