IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-03-01
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00:04:01 <Forked> err.. fix my client? =p
00:04:30 <Forked> no it's not THAT old..
00:04:35 <Forked> ah yes, I just saw it now
00:04:47 <Forked> someone tell me whats wrong with it :\
00:04:57 <glx> [19:47:29] <Zr40> apparently, *@ip-address got parsed as *@*
00:05:39 <SpComb> "24h" instead of "+24h" caused it to parse "*@ip-address" as "*@*"
00:07:10 <SpComb> 20:26:09 < weasel> LarstiQ: I told operserv to "akill add 24h <mask> <reason>" when I should have said "akill add +24h <mask> <reason>"
00:07:13 <SpComb> 20:26:31 < weasel> LarstiQ: operserv turned it into kline *@*, for some bizarre reason
00:10:26 <Forked> that is slightly entertaining :) I wish efnet had tools that messed up like that
00:18:01 <Phantasm> There are 2 things I generally hate in all open source games made based on some existing propietary game.. First is also common in all open source games... Instead of taking a point that multiple users could agree with and benefit from, it very often goes into 'do it yourself'. The point could at least be written somewhere for someone to look about it when there is time and willingness for someone to do something about it. It doesn't matter if the point ...
00:18:07 <Phantasm> ... might not be very crusial. The second point is about the way to improve the old game.. Some very arbitraty things are decided to be fixed as they are even if there were significant problems with them. Sure if the feeling of the original game is wanted to be kept, there are some things that should remain very similar to the original, but that is no excuse to fix arbitraty things as such... Of course it could also be argued that there is no reason to keep ...
00:18:13 <Phantasm> ... to the original game. Why keep the original if it could be improved? What benefit does it give to keep original design if there are significant improvements possible to be made? Not sure if that came out like I think of it, but anyway the main point is that most non-devs will never turn into devs, so if they want to contribute some ideas they should be more appreciated instead of resulting into the 'code it yourself' which more than likely causes ...
00:18:19 <Phantasm> ... future ideas to be lost as the user doesn't feel like telling about them. Even if the idea is such that as itself it might not be something useful, it might be some other developers than the one(s) the user is talking with might think of something derived from it. As in, the team of devs is very limited and thus there won't be endless amount of ideas to improve the game and as such the ideas the users can give should be utilized to the best within ...
00:18:26 <Phantasm> ... reason. Typically this isn't the case however and only very significant problems will be addressed from the users unless the dev being talked to is able to directly think something about it.
00:22:16 <Gonozal_VIII> wtf is that wall of text
00:22:28 <Gonozal_VIII> i'm not going to read all that, nono
00:23:16 <Patrick`> this is fucking hilarious
00:23:35 <Patrick`> people on the internet have this mental disorder where they eloquently type pages of queen's english
00:23:54 <Patrick`> to defend the fact that your shitty bug-exploit won't be codified and made easier for YOU to gain an advantage with
00:24:20 <Patrick`> and somehow spin this into a vast self-delusion about the state of the industry
00:24:27 <Phantasm> I'm not talking about the buy/sell train thing.
00:24:35 <Patrick`> you actually are though
00:24:49 <Phantasm> This got nothing to do with it in fact.
00:24:59 <Patrick`> you gave up on that, then SUDDENLY and for a completely unrelated reason, started talking about how OSS devs don't listen to users
00:25:06 <Patrick`> whatver, I'm outta here
00:25:39 <Phantasm> The ranting came up from the point 'we will not modify the original train designs no matter what' and it is a long lasting thing I have noticed and just ranted it out.
00:26:03 <fjb> Hm, when you don't like opensource games, why do you play them at all? The people are developing them for fun in their free time. Payed developers do it for money, so you can tell them what to develop.
00:26:38 <Phantasm> fjb: I'm not saying I don't like open source games. I'm saying there are problems with them, as are in all games. It is just there is always room for improvement in the way games are made.
00:27:23 <Patrick`> UT3 is the most perfect game that will ever exist and it was developed in the most efficient way possible.
00:27:41 <Patrick`> every single erg of effort and artwork is fully utilised in the finished product, and it was coded by one guy.
00:27:42 <Phantasm> Patrick`: Whatever you say.
00:28:00 <Patrick`> wait, no, I'm thinking of ANY OPEN SOURCE GAME
00:28:19 <Gekz> Patrick`: why are you crying
00:28:55 <fjb> There is at least one engine for the old infocom adventures. The game engine does interpret the adveture, it does not change it because somebody things the store told in that advanture should change. It is the same with the original vehicles set in OpenTTD. That set data gets interpreted, but not changed.
00:29:44 <Patrick`> Gekz: someone on the internet is WRONG!
00:29:59 <Gekz> Patrick`: holy creeping jesus, then ban yourself indefinitely!
00:30:38 <fjb> And when you start to make switches to change one vehicle set, you cal also make switches for every vehicle set out there. One switch for every thing in every set that somebody wants to change. Why having loadable sets at all ten? Just include every possible vehicle in the world into the game.
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00:49:37 <fjb> FreeBSD 7.0 got released.
01:08:05 <Gonozal_VIII> no wooing allowed here!
01:08:46 <Tefad> Gonozal_VIII: duck my sick?
01:09:04 <Gonozal_VIII> poor duck, take it to a vet
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01:34:47 <Gonozal_VIII> _tick_counter is set to 0 in initializegame... and increased every tick... it's only 16 bit.. so it's overflowing all the time?
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07:14:32 * Eddi|zuHause2 unpacks the newest ACME box
07:24:23 <Forked> that MIGHT backfire =p
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08:32:12 <Draakon> if you want all the patches in
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08:58:22 <bumblebee> i got compiled failed when i opened the gonozal patch with buildttd thingy
08:59:44 <bumblebee> any suggestions to what could have gone wrong?
09:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> try to compile without patch first
09:02:29 <Draakon> are you sure you got r12180?
09:03:31 <bumblebee> how do u check that? so sorry im realy new in this stuff
09:04:17 <Draakon> first of all, what are you running in? Windows, Mac or Linux?
09:04:55 <Draakon> and with what you got the nightly source?
09:06:31 <bumblebee> i dont know what you mean :S
09:07:16 <Draakon> do you even know what nightly is?
09:07:42 <bumblebee> well, no :S so far i have just played openttd
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09:08:48 <Draakon> well then i think you are playing in plain binary, aka 0.60 beta 4?
09:09:33 <bumblebee> 0.5.3 it says when i start the game
09:10:47 <Draakon> the patch you are trying to apply cant be applied to 0.5.3 or 0.6.0 Beta 1-4, only plain Nightly
09:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> bumblebee: there should be a compiled version of gonozal's patch pack
09:10:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> just use that one
09:19:14 <Draakon> wtf? since when in daylenght patch you can increase the daylenght factor over 36?
09:19:18 <bumblebee> nightly is the latest openttd patch correct?
09:20:52 <Draakon> its the latest version you can get with the newest features and fixes
09:21:05 <Draakon> and being updated 24/7
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09:28:53 <Draakon> i need a tutorial course on PBS
09:30:52 <Draakon> feature that is in Patch but being made for OpenTTD currently(avabile from development forum)
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09:46:54 <Poopsmith> i'll have to look at it... from the name, it sounds useful
09:48:21 <Draakon> you know the very basic T-Junction where all the railways crossed each other?
09:49:11 <Draakon> well PBS lets 2 trains coming from north for example be on the same junction at the same time if they both go south
09:49:43 <Draakon> or one takes a turn that the other wont be interrupted
09:50:08 <Poopsmith> so multiple trains can enter an intersection, provided they won't collide?
09:50:20 <Draakon> check those pages i gave for more info
09:50:39 <Poopsmith> that will often make things easier
09:51:45 <Poopsmith> then again, i'm still getting used to things like presignals :P
09:52:06 <Draakon> i just got to play PBS for the first time
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10:10:35 <peter1138> Bah, you can’t load and unload cargo at the same station :(
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10:17:30 <peter1138> Not from and to it.
10:17:45 <peter1138> I have a coal mine next to a steel mill.
10:18:08 <Draakon> that kind of system wont give you no income
10:19:16 <Draakon> but it is possibile if you build at the beginning a 7 tiles long station, destroy 1 tile in the middle and build a railroad there. Then after that make a train that makes a full load and unload on that same station
10:19:35 <Draakon> but the train wont make no profit
10:20:46 <peter1138> Careful of your double negatives there.
10:21:46 <peter1138> "Won't make no profit" does not mean what you meant to say.
10:22:22 <Draakon> so you say they make some money?
10:22:31 <Draakon> if they load and unload at the same station
10:22:45 <peter1138> No, you're saying they do.
10:22:57 <peter1138> They won't make a profit.
10:23:07 <peter1138> They will make no profit.
10:23:41 <peter1138> You said "they won't make no profit" which means they will.
10:25:00 <Yexo> you said the no word with another no after it (no profit)
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10:25:35 <Yexo> but if you just give a full load order, trains do unload if they can't, don't they?
10:26:08 <Yexo> ok, wasn't sure about that
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10:27:17 <peter1138> I'm using road vehicles, anyway.
10:27:28 <peter1138> And they won't unload.
10:27:35 <peter1138> Even with an unload order.
10:27:43 <peter1138> I just made a second stop ;)
10:27:45 <Draakon> build a station-road-depot
10:28:25 <Draakon> when they have full loaded, they go to depot and then back to station for unloading
10:28:47 <Draakon> and when unloaded, the same time full load
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10:32:17 <Draakon> peter, you have iron ore mine and steel mill together right?
10:32:45 <peter1138> Using Pikka's industries.
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10:37:16 <Draakon> my game crashed of testing the above explained system
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10:43:10 <Draakon> i quess i have mistaken by the RVs but the trains should have get some money
10:43:25 <Draakon> if using only 1 station as load&unload
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10:50:34 <Gonozal_VIII> 12:25:35 < Yexo> but if you just give a full load order, trains do unload if they can't, don't they?
10:50:34 <Gonozal_VIII> 12:25:46 < Yexo> * if they can
10:50:34 <Gonozal_VIII> 12:25:57 < Draakon> no
10:50:34 <Gonozal_VIII> 12:26:00 < Draakon> onyl full
10:50:59 <Gonozal_VIII> full load unloads first if the station accepts
10:51:14 <Draakon> full load only full loads
10:51:31 <Gonozal_VIII> my passenger lines always have full load on both sides
10:52:12 <Yexo> And I sometimes have busses with full load on two stations, that'd never work if they didn't unload
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10:52:44 <Draakon> Gonozal: are you even using some patches?
10:52:59 <Gonozal_VIII> has nothing to do with patches
10:54:18 <Gonozal_VIII> if that doesn't work anymore it's a bug in the patch
10:54:56 <Gonozal_VIII> only loading at a station that accepts the cargo is transfer and take cargo
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10:57:03 <Gonozal_VIII> could happen to me too anytime... stupid storm
10:57:33 <Gonozal_VIII> power gone for some split seconds and router resets
10:57:50 <Draakon> it wasnt power failure
10:58:18 <Draakon> something is wrong with my internet this days
11:00:01 <Gonozal_VIII> usually not but singular/plural stuff should be right..
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11:05:51 <dih> that is the only kid i know that can join, swear, feel the urge to tell us that he has to leave, and leave
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11:07:14 <guru3> wrong channel... *whistles*
11:07:41 <Gonozal_VIII> was that spanish or something?
11:07:55 <Gonozal_VIII> because of the el^^
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11:16:56 <dih> whatd does questionmark do here?
11:35:42 <questionmark> dih: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
11:36:03 <questionmark> dih: Admin, Alias, Anonymous, Channel, ChannelStats, Config, Ctcp, Filter, Format, Games, Herald, Insult, Internet, Later, Math, Misc, Network, News, NickCapture, Nickometer, Note, Owner, Plugin, Protector, Quote, Reply, Seen, Services, Status, String, Time, Topic, URL, User, Utilities, and Web
11:36:52 <roboboy> questionmark are you a supybot?
11:37:35 <Wolf01> and now why my irc started to type by itself?
11:38:12 <Wolf01> i thought it was enabled only for the italian channel
11:38:25 <Wolf01> ok, another if statement on the script
11:39:12 <Gonozal_VIII> italian openttd channel?
11:39:37 <Gonozal_VIII> are there many italians playing openttd that can't write english?
11:39:38 <Wolf01> because there is an italian community too?
11:41:53 <dih> i ordered 4 pizzas yesterday
11:42:02 <dih> it took them an hour to fine me
11:42:42 <Wolf01> maybe you ordered directly from italy
11:43:10 <dih> in fact i said if i had ordered directly from italy it would have gotten here faster
11:45:49 <Patrick`> it's bizzare that specifically a lot of italians should be attracted to the game
11:59:50 *** peter1138 sets mode: +b questionmark!*@*
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12:43:13 <Yorick> is that done for a reason?
12:43:59 <Yorick> if it's because its a bot, what is DorpsGek doing here?
12:44:49 <Yorick> 13:59:53 -!- mode/#openttd [+b questionmark!*@*] by peter1138
12:45:46 <Patrick`> unsolicited bot, probably
12:46:26 <LA[lord]> Patrick`: What does unsloicited mean?
12:46:40 <Patrick`> didn't ask for it, didn't know the person who runs it
12:46:44 <Patrick`> just randomly turned up one day
12:47:07 <LA[lord]> it didn't randomly turn up either...
12:47:18 <Yorick> it was just logging things
12:47:37 <Yorick> guru3 is logging things aswell
12:47:45 <LA[lord]> Yorick has introduced it too..
12:48:26 <Yorick> ok, it won't be here anymore... as long as you make it like I CAN JOIN FROM MY HOME IP
12:50:27 <guru3> eh? what's this about me?
12:50:41 <Yorick> you're logging things too
12:50:48 <Yorick> for displaying on a website
12:51:38 <guru3> i'm also a real person though
12:52:15 <Yorick> should I ask permission to use you as an example the next time?
12:53:48 <LA[lord]> Yorick: I doubt he is @KB reight now
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13:08:44 <Purno> any php-scripter available who can help me with something which should be fairly easy?
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13:22:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> why can people never ask _real_ questions?
13:22:39 <Forked> does anyone know computers?? I need help
13:24:04 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: are you going to correctly answer those real question?
13:24:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can't answer without the question.
13:26:36 <Rubidium> How's the system used in Tokyo to prevent overflows of canals due to typhoons called? It's a series of tunnels and resevoirs.
13:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> see... at least that is a question that i know that i don't know the answer to.
13:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> besides, it is missing a questionmark
13:28:34 <Rubidium> but... it has been on discovery channel
13:35:24 <Rubidium> hmm, that sucks; you have to understand Japanese to go on the tour for 'security reason'. It's called the Edogawa River Project or G-Cans Project if you're interested in it.
13:38:04 <Yorick> why is questionmark banned?
13:38:19 <dih> what do you need it here for?
13:38:45 <Yorick> logging while I'm not here
13:44:06 <Yorick> < Eddi|zuHause2> besides, it is missing a questionmark <-- yes, we know questionmark isn't here :D
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13:57:32 <dih> Yorick: logs are also at thegrebs.com
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14:22:23 * glx adds that to the kick script :)
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15:41:34 *** Yorick was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
15:45:04 <Yorick> I still want to know the reason questionmark is banned
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16:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... r12252 does horrible things with YAPP... but i don't know enough of the code to figure it out...
16:18:07 <glx> but it was a request from YAPP coder :)
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16:19:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but i can't find an updated yapp
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16:21:21 <Gonozal_VIII> i want new yapp, gimme gimme
16:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> learn to read, would you?
16:22:16 <Gonozal_VIII> just because you can't find it :P
16:25:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> ah, Gonozal_VIII, what i wanted to ask... cargo generation amount is divided by daylength, yes? what about passenger generation?
16:26:57 <Gonozal_VIII> longer days, more cargo...
16:27:14 <Gonozal_VIII> wouldn't be much to transport otherwise
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16:34:13 <DorpsGek> LordAzamath: skidd13 was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 18 hours, 22 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <skidd13> LordAzamath: ??? I do
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16:35:48 * Yorick has to go for 2 hours or more now
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16:49:49 <LordAzamath> can dorpsgek convert decimal to hex?
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17:07:37 <Gonozal_VIII> Train Crash near Brhl! 416 die in fireball after collision with tree
17:08:01 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: seriously?
17:08:31 <Diabolic-Angel> For a second I thought that was real news o0
17:08:40 <Diabolic-Angel> then i saw the channel name
17:08:41 <Gonozal_VIII> well... +-416 dead... and maybe there was no fireball..
17:09:03 <Gonozal_VIII> but an ice hit a tree today
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17:14:13 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, i'm quite sure the tree didn't survive
17:17:16 <SmatZ> it was dead already before the train crashed
17:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, with a storm like this, something was bound to happen
17:17:48 <Gonozal_VIII> it was stormy here too... for about half an hour
17:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> the whole day now
17:18:57 <Roujin> it even snowed where i live
17:19:06 <Gonozal_VIII> my mother said that she saw parts of a plastic roof that almost hit parked cars... the poor cars
17:19:25 <ln-> i wouldn't dare to travel on TTD trains. 100% mortality rate in every accident.
17:20:16 <Roujin> something completely different.. I made a new signature for my patches in the forum, what do you think about it? 8)
17:20:20 <LordAzamath> yeah... A small bump with front engine and last wagons all explode
17:20:22 <Gonozal_VIII> i would go everywhere by ship... they are 100% save
17:20:34 <LordAzamath> Gonozal_VIII: And 100% slow
17:20:46 <Gonozal_VIII> but you don't die^^
17:20:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> and 100% CPU power ;)
17:21:01 <Forked> ln-: not if a train hits a bus.. the train is fine and keeps going?
17:21:22 <ln-> Forked: well, yes. but then i wouldn't want to be in that bus.
17:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: why rand() and not Random()?
17:21:56 <Forked> but you'd look great as an invisible pixel
17:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> would probably solve the multiplayer bit
17:22:50 <ln-> maybe i didn't remember Random() back then.
17:24:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: what happens with an empty train?
17:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> i kinda fear division by 0
17:24:45 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm is modulo 0 bad too?
17:24:54 <SmatZ> you have at least 2 drivers
17:25:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but he does num-2
17:25:38 <Gonozal_VIII> leave that +2 stuff out..
17:26:25 <ln-> or, use PPC where division by zero does not crash a program.
17:26:59 *** yorick is now known as Yorick|brb
17:27:03 <Gonozal_VIII> rand % num should be enough... why should the crew have no chance of survival?
17:27:31 <hylje> because the train FUCKING BLOWS UP
17:27:36 <hylje> all of it, not just the loco
17:28:16 <Gonozal_VIII> there should be different result based on speed... only a long breakdown for slow trains or something like that
17:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> why would potentially undefined behaviour be preferable to crash?
17:29:53 <Gonozal_VIII> imho it should just be defined as something in pc use.. integer division has strange rules anyways
17:31:31 <Gonozal_VIII> x / 0 = max value of the data type or something like that
17:31:38 <ln-> one could argue that integer overflow should also crash a program, like division by zero does on many platforms.
17:31:54 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: on PPC, x / 0 appears to be 0.
17:33:14 <Gonozal_VIII> openttd would crash at least every few hours if overflow would crash stuff
17:33:50 <Gonozal_VIII> _tick_counter is always increased, never set back
17:42:54 *** Yorick|brb is now known as Yorick
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17:48:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: no, the other way round, it would have been programmed to catch that
17:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: but cyclic addition is a good mathematical foundation, whereas x/0=0 is a totally random definition
17:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> besides, the processor sets an overflow flag, which makes it an exact result of the addition (just you have one bit too many)
17:51:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i know the borland pascal compiler had a flag to tell wether overflow should cause a crash/exception
17:52:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> only the C definition says "ahh... f*ck it"
17:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> lim[n->inf](avg(-n,85*n)) == ?
17:57:11 <SmatZ> depends on your definition of avg
17:57:13 <ln-> we'll divide both by infinity, and get avg(0,0) == 0
17:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> avg(x,y) = (x+y)/2
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17:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i would really like to see how you get to -inf on that one ;)
17:58:24 <SmatZ> lim[n->inf](avg(-n,n)) = lim[n->inf]((n-n)/2) = lim[n->inf](0) = 0
17:58:42 <SmatZ> [18:56:16] <Eddi|zuHause2> lim[n->inf](avg(-n,85*n)) == ?
17:58:51 <SmatZ> errr I read it as "-n, 0,85*n"
18:00:03 <ln-> SmatZ: misreading the formulas doesn't significantly affect on the validity of these theorems.
18:27:58 *** away is now known as Slowpoke
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18:49:16 <DorpsGek> ln-: Error: Invalid <number> for base 26: peter1138
18:49:24 <DorpsGek> ln-: Error: Invalid <number> for base 26: PETER1138
18:49:48 <peter1138> You need base 36, I'd imagine.
18:50:50 <peter1138> @base 36 10 PETER1138
18:50:50 <DorpsGek> peter1138: 71688864595652
18:51:29 <peter1138> Now I don't imagine.
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18:55:34 *** Yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
18:59:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
19:01:32 <Gonozal_VIII> bloody shoes - knights in wild satan
19:03:54 <ln-> let's count Bjarni's telephone number
19:05:48 <Gonozal_VIII> that's not a good answer...
19:11:24 *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
19:15:51 <Forked> I tried that once as a kid
19:18:08 <Yorick> why did you feel like +b questionmark?
19:18:31 <Gonozal_VIII> stop talking to yourself in public
19:26:53 <LordAzamath> he wasn't talking to himself
19:26:59 <LordAzamath> he was talking to peter1138
19:27:17 <Yorick> yes good, I scared LA away :(
19:46:03 *** LordAzamath has left #openttd
19:53:54 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: 36 = 0-9a-z
19:55:05 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
19:55:52 <glx> hehe it can't write base 37 numbers
19:58:53 <DorpsGek> glx: 101010000010101
20:00:19 <Gonozal_VIII> @base 10 36 1337
20:00:55 <DorpsGek> ln-: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
20:06:48 <DorpsGek> De_Ghost: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
20:06:52 <DorpsGek> De_Ghost: 10100111001
20:06:57 <DorpsGek> De_Ghost: base <fromBase> [<toBase>] <number>
20:07:10 <glx> De_Ghost: constructorsµ/destructors for class ConfigFile
20:07:46 <De_Ghost> do i need to do sumthing with it?
20:08:10 <De_Ghost> what's #ifndef CONFIG_READ
20:08:27 <glx> like you malloc stuff in constructor and you free it in destructor
20:08:47 <glx> recursive include protection
20:10:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> De_Ghost: there are no number literals for base > 36
20:10:34 <De_Ghost> it should draw some pictures !! ::)
20:10:45 <De_Ghost> can u look at this quickly for a sec
20:10:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> De_Ghost: the babylonians had a base 60 system
20:11:50 *** LordAzamath has joined #openttd
20:24:54 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: did they have 60 symbols?
20:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: it was... complicated...
20:27:30 <Gonozal_VIII> a symbol for one and a symbol for 10
20:28:06 *** redmonkey has joined #openttd
20:28:25 <redmonkey> hi. how do i send money to other companies?
20:28:39 <redmonkey> the patch is activated
20:28:43 <Bjarni> as you can see the Babylonians used a 60 number system, hence the reason why we have 60 minutes in each hour
20:28:50 <LordAzamath> hold down the man with the hat button
20:29:22 <Bjarni> sometimes reasons for something is way older than you might think
20:29:34 <LordAzamath> hold down the client you want to send money (IIRC) and choose send money
20:29:40 <ln-> Bjarni is awake after all!
20:30:03 <Gonozal_VIII> they coul have used 9 of those 10symbols instead of just 5 and we would have a 100 minute system...
20:30:36 <Gonozal_VIII> or 5 of both... you can show that with your hands...
20:32:39 <Gonozal_VIII> assuming you have 5 fingers on each hand...
20:32:43 <redmonkey> LordAzamath: doesn't work like that
20:32:49 <Gonozal_VIII> and a total of 2 hands
20:32:54 <Bjarni> ln-: you might be unaware of it but I am able to not stay on IRC all the time
20:32:59 <LordAzamath> redmonkey, perhaps
20:33:05 <Bjarni> it's not like I have nothing else to do ;)
20:33:18 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
20:33:21 * LordAzamath hasn't said that yet
20:33:41 <glx> redmonkey: the other company should have at least a client
20:33:48 * Bjarni adds LordAzamath to the ignore list
20:33:52 <ln-> Bjarni: with a proper video driver, you could more easily apple-tab between the game and IRC.
20:34:13 <Bjarni> ln-: that's not an issue
20:34:27 <LordAzamath> Bjarni, if you do.. I'll get some invitations ready :(
20:34:28 <Bjarni> I'm too busy for OTTD :(
20:34:37 <redmonkey> oh i see, i cant send money to AI players? :)
20:34:55 <LordAzamath> it's only for multiplauer
20:35:01 <redmonkey> ok, thanks for helping
20:35:27 * LordAzamath likes multiplauer much more than multiplayer.. Sounds better
20:36:25 <LordAzamath> Yorick, if he has ignored ?, then he surely hasn't ignored the other
20:36:48 <LordAzamath> which means... the channel is too small for a hostile takeover
20:41:55 <LordAzamath> he has been banned*
20:42:04 <LordAzamath> by evil peter1138
20:42:34 <glx> someone is asking for a ban :)
20:43:10 <Gonozal_VIII> will you ban everybody again like you did yesterday?
20:43:34 <LordAzamath> glx, Well if you really really want.. But it does have side effects :D :P
20:44:58 <LordAzamath> [22:42] <+glx> someone is asking for a ban :) >>>
20:45:21 <glx> my question was for the side effects :)
20:45:50 <ln-> i'd like translations for the following two strings: GenericName="Text Editor", Comment="Fast, extendable programmers' text editor"
20:46:13 <ln-> danish, estonian, french, ...
20:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> didn't you already ask that?
20:47:05 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, but didn't get answers for e.g. danish, estonian, french.
20:47:13 <glx> Comment="Editeur rapide et extensible, pour les programmeurs"
20:48:03 <glx> I let you guess the language :P
20:48:39 <glx> but "de texte" can be omitted
20:48:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> it was estonian ;)
20:49:47 <LordAzamath> ln-: GenericName="Tekstiredaktor", comment="Kiire, paindlik programmeerijate tekstiredaktor" Estonian
20:49:58 <LordAzamath> something like that
20:50:19 <LordAzamath> but I'm afraid it isn't the best sentence...
20:51:25 <ln-> fortunately, it's not a sentence at all, since there is no verb.
20:51:26 <LordAzamath> Eddi|zuHause2, and you have no idea about Estonian...
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20:51:40 <LordAzamath> ln-, doesn't matter
20:51:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> LordAzamath, and you have no idea about irony.
20:53:29 <ln-> Bjarni: is danish advanced enough to be used to express the strings above?
20:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: just do a random mix between swedish and german ;)
20:54:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> and sprinkle in some ø
20:55:55 <ln-> let's see... "Schnabb, utbyggbarer textredigerare fr programmiererare"
20:57:15 <Gonozal_VIII> btw what does that o / thingy sound like?
20:57:55 <Bjarni> ö isn't used in Danish
20:58:09 <Gonozal_VIII> so that's exactly the same?
20:58:19 <ln-> Bjarni: 22:45 < ln-> i'd like translations for the following two strings: GenericName="Text Editor", Comment="Fast, extendable programmers' text editor"
20:58:20 <Bjarni> not entirely but damn close
20:58:36 <SmatZ> ln-: GenericName="Textový editor", Comment="Rychlý a rozšiřitelný textový editor pro programátory" Czech
20:59:02 <Bjarni> also when used by itself it's a valid word :)
20:59:21 <Gonozal_VIII> :S what does it mean?
21:00:03 <ln-> also by itself is a valid word, at least in swedish.
21:00:04 <Bjarni> it would appear that the 500 islands in Denmark made the word so common that people had to be able to say it quickly... or something
21:00:24 <Bjarni> <ln-> also å by itself is a valid word, at least in swedish. <-- in Danish too
21:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Bjarni> island <- they use the word so often, so it has to be short? :p
21:01:04 <SmatZ> "a i k o u v z" are valid Czech words...
21:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can't think of any one-letter-words in german
21:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> even one-syllable words are quite hard to find
21:01:29 <ln-> SmatZ: nouns or prepositions?
21:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> where in english you can have whole conversations with those
21:02:10 <ln-> Bjarni: so, are you satisfied with "Schnabb, utbyggbarer textredigerare fr programmiererare"?
21:03:25 <Bjarni> ln-: isn't it "tekst"?
21:03:40 <Bjarni> or did Swedish vandalise that word?
21:03:49 <ln-> Bjarni: definitely "text" in swedish
21:04:18 <LordAzamath> tekst is much more nicer :D
21:04:29 <LordAzamath> (is in Estonian too :P)
21:05:01 <planetmaker> ^^ that makes the letter x kind of unneccessary...
21:05:05 <ln-> Wolf01: text editor en italiano?
21:05:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> the article is funny... it says "meanwhile there are more Ook! interpreters than Ook! programs" ;)
21:05:30 <ln-> Wolf01: e "Fast, extendable programmers' text editor"?
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21:05:57 <SmatZ> you have Ook! <-> brainfuck coverters... written in both languages :-)
21:06:14 <planetmaker> SmatZ: ah... shouldn't it be valid C?
21:06:31 <SmatZ> planetmaker: I didn't know C standard allows that
21:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: what should be the semantics of that?
21:07:27 <peter1138> SmatZ, original style parameters... urgh...
21:07:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> reminds a little of fortran
21:07:42 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: the same... default "int" everywhere, "int main(int argc, char *argv[])"
21:07:52 <Phantasm> How much does high station spread limit increase the cpu usage?
21:08:17 <LordAzamath> peter1138, you can unban questionmark now.. He is (perma I guess) offline
21:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phantasm: the bigger the stations are, the longer it takes to walk all surrounding tiles for cargo production
21:08:30 <SmatZ> it reminds me of "old" verilog (pre-01 I think)
21:09:04 <Phantasm> Eddi|zuHause2: Does that take any cpu time in reality?
21:09:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phantasm: i have not done any profiling
21:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> but generally, that code is run pretty often
21:11:21 <Phantasm> I suppose I should test it out myself then.
21:11:27 <peter1138> LordAzamath, I could, but I can't be bothered.
21:12:35 *** Draakon has joined #openttd
21:13:24 <ln-> nothing, just an observation.
21:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> he could proofread the translation ;)
21:13:41 <LordAzamath> You want me to call kratt too?
21:13:47 <Draakon> invasion? since when? :P
21:13:58 <Bjarni> and the politicians said that the people in the east wouldn't show up here even if they joined EU
21:13:59 <peter1138> Since a minute ago ;)
21:14:01 <LordAzamath> We, Draakon, invade this channel
21:14:28 <Bjarni> btw that's a public joke now because there are Polish workers everywhere
21:14:31 <Draakon> LordAzamath; Not enough of our kind here to invade it :P
21:14:47 <LordAzamath> Haha.. I know alot Estonians even in the forums
21:14:56 <LordAzamath> I could arrange something
21:15:03 <Draakon> i know 1 in the channel and 5 on forums
21:15:28 <LordAzamath> Draakon, I know three in IRC
21:15:28 <Bjarni> <LordAzamath> Haha.. I know alot Estonians even in the forums <-- this indicates that you even know some who aren't on the forums
21:15:39 <Bjarni> I would never have imagined that
21:15:48 <LordAzamath> Bjarni, well.. that's obvious
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21:16:32 <Draakon> Any PBS experts here?
21:16:49 <Bjarni> you could be a geek not knowing anybody around you but you could know people in all other countries
21:17:06 <Gonozal_VIII> isn't that normal?
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21:17:30 <Draakon> Is someone here that has used PBS for long time?
21:17:36 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: he just claimed that it's not the case in his case
21:17:49 <Gonozal_VIII> then he's not normal
21:18:19 <LordAzamath> geek = normal? not really
21:18:29 *** Bjarni sets mode: +b *!*LAlord]@*.cab21.ltln.starman.ee
21:18:33 <Gonozal_VIII> no... geek == normal
21:19:00 *** Bjarni sets mode: -b *!*LAlord]@*.cab21.ltln.starman.ee
21:19:09 *** LordAzamath has left #openttd
21:19:19 <Draakon> geek=person who is intelligent aka has more brains but doesnt have power and sex appeal
21:19:56 *** LordAzamath has joined #openttd
21:19:59 <Bjarni> Draakon: you just claimed that I'm not a geek
21:20:28 <Bjarni> why should I ban him twice?
21:20:31 <Draakon> well, bjarni, are you super smart but dont get any dates?
21:20:33 <peter1138> Bjarni has no brains? That sounds reasonable...
21:20:47 <LordAzamath> Bjarni, you banned me
21:21:06 <Bjarni> I banned some Estonian... you guys are all alike :P
21:21:18 <LordAzamath> Yes LA[lord] is me
21:21:30 <ln-> han kan banna, banna dig s hrt
21:21:55 <peter1138> So, er... what about YAPP?
21:22:01 <Bjarni> <peter1138> Bjarni has no brains? That sounds reasonable... <-- that's not what I meant
21:22:16 <ln-> som alltid vaktar alla som r hr
21:22:55 <Draakon> Peter1138; In some screenshots i saw people use only PBS signals instead normal, is this action normal and does it have some advances?
21:22:58 <Bjarni> it was more like I can say that I got all 3 "items"
21:23:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> Draakon: you should not mix PBS and normal signals
21:23:42 <peter1138> YAPP was designed to be all PBS signals, it just happens to allow non-PBS signals.
21:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> can have nasty sideeffects
21:23:47 <Bjarni> I mean.... after all how many of you have had to reject girls who wanted you but you didn't want them
21:24:00 <peter1138> Using all-PBS means you won't get any problems with mixing them, (er, obviously)
21:24:01 <SmatZ> Draakon: because *BOOM*
21:24:52 <Draakon> but i cant have some advances of presignals aka having track priorities for example
21:25:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> Draakon: the main rule to mix them is: do not have normal signals leading into the same block as PBS signals, you can have different entry and exit signals, though
21:25:53 <Bjarni> see.... nobody yelled "ME"
21:26:23 <Bjarni> in fact you all ignored the question as a stupid one indicating that it's too far from your world
21:26:34 <peter1138> michi_cc has done an outstanding job on making PBS and normal signals play nicely.
21:27:15 <peter1138> Draakon, another reason is, at least for me, I just set the patch option to place PBS signals by default, and that's all I place.
21:27:21 <Gonozal_VIII> bjarni, i had to...
21:27:26 <planetmaker> ^^ Bjarni: is there a point you're going to make...?
21:27:44 <Draakon> but can you combine presignals and PBS somehow?
21:27:50 <peter1138> There is no need to
21:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> Draakon: then you probably used them improperly
21:28:52 <Draakon> like service area exits going to ML and i want ML have priority over service area lines
21:29:09 <Bjarni> <planetmaker> ^^ Bjarni: is there a point you're going to make...? <--- since I tried that and you didn't then it should indicate that I have more sex appeal than you guys indicating that I actually have some
21:29:27 *** peter1138 sets mode: +b *!*Bjarni@*.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk
21:29:38 <peter1138> you don't have talk some shit
21:29:41 *** Bjarni sets mode: -b *!*Bjarni@*.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk
21:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Erlangen%20Transport,%2012.%20Jul%201933.png <- that is how i use PBS
21:32:09 <Gonozal_VIII> don't post links until you have finished uploading :P
21:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> 't says 100% here...
21:32:42 <Draakon> is that even possibile for image uploaders?
21:32:48 <Bjarni> well... as I said then what I said ended up sounding wrong
21:32:59 <Gonozal_VIII> that's not an image uploader
21:33:46 <Gonozal_VIII> that station looks a bit oversized..
21:33:48 <Draakon> i guess i cant build OpenTTDCoop style networks with PBS then
21:34:07 <LordAzamath> no-one asks you to use it ^^
21:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: length or width?
21:34:32 <Gonozal_VIII> width.. but probably both
21:34:37 <Draakon> i dont know how do build in the other style
21:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: there are 5 train lines (excluding the "subway")
21:35:26 <Gonozal_VIII> that doesn't look like a subway at all
21:35:31 <planetmaker> Bjarni: so you want us to acknowledge that you at least HAVE sex appeal - in contrast to some random subjects in lurking int this channel? Well... if you feel better :)
21:35:49 <peter1138> Draakon, you can, you just need to place them carefully.
21:35:53 * planetmaker getting quite off topic...
21:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: no, but it is one level lower than the city
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21:36:37 <Gonozal_VIII> and there are no trains on the platforms... therefore it is either new and the trains haven't arrived yet or it is way too big
21:37:03 <peter1138> Draakon, of course, there is the caveat that YAPP is not designed for placing signals every other tile or so...
21:37:04 <Gonozal_VIII> mixing is always bad
21:37:36 <peter1138> Draakon, mixing there will work, however it offers you no advantage.
21:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: the tracks are not fully developed yet... the station is planned for future expansion
21:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> (including 8 tile ICEs in the far future)
21:37:55 <planetmaker> Draakon: should be ok...
21:38:08 <peter1138> PBS signals are designed to be placed at 'safe waiting points'
21:38:12 <Gonozal_VIII> very tight corners... nothing for fast trains
21:38:22 <peter1138> and those 'exit' signals there are not safe waiting points
21:38:30 <peter1138> (in that they block other paths)
21:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> that signalling looks very wrong
21:39:22 <Draakon> last question, if i build only PBS in the junctions like i showed in the pictures and at the entrance of stations while rest being normal and presignal, it will be safe?
21:40:02 <peter1138> You lose a big advantage of YAPP PBS signals by placing them willynilly.
21:40:04 <Gonozal_VIII> trains could turn around at normal signals and block stuff
21:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> but they should not crash anymore
21:40:40 <Draakon> why did i ever install PBS then
21:40:52 <Gonozal_VIII> just don't use normal signals
21:41:15 <Draakon> but i want for building some OpenTTDCoop style stuff
21:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> as someone stated in the forum recently. you have to unlearn a lot that you know about signals
21:41:30 <Gonozal_VIII> and place signals only on places where trains can stop without blocking anything
21:42:02 <Gonozal_VIII> you need a lot less signals
21:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> mainly i would advise you to not have signal distance closer than 1 train length
21:42:14 <peter1138> Yes, YAPP PBS basically offers no advantages for OpenTTDCoop style of playing
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21:42:33 <peter1138> Only for simplied station entrances.
21:42:42 <Draakon> i guess then i have to experiment and see stuff for myself
21:43:12 <Gonozal_VIII> you can get priorities too with signal distances...
21:44:30 <Draakon> but why railroads get darker when train enters PBS block?
21:44:46 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ that's the reservation
21:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> Draakon: you can turn that off
21:44:51 <planetmaker> Draakon: that's a debug feature or patch level.^^
21:44:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> in the patch settings
21:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> "show reserved track" or something
21:45:35 <peter1138> That's the "remind peter1138 he's using pbs" feature
21:45:37 <Gonozal_VIII> but it's very useful to learn how to use pbs so you shouldn't turn it off
21:46:02 <Draakon> but when trains going forward, get into PBS block, they stop and then continue, why=
21:46:14 <Gonozal_VIII> only without orders
21:46:37 <Draakon> it was same with orders too
21:46:56 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm that shouldn
21:47:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> you do it wrong ;)
21:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> is there an adverbial form of "wrong"?
21:48:26 <Draakon> gonozal; no they arent lost
21:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> are they on an island in the south pacific?
21:50:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i need 4-lane roads with embedded tram in the middle (2 tiles wide)
21:51:34 <glx> <Eddi|zuHause2> is there an adverbial form of "wrong"? <-- like "wrongly" ?
21:51:37 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm one way tram
21:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> glx: this adverb stuff is very confusing for me... in german it's all the same..
21:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> the real problem with english is that is has really simple rules, and then 10 pages worth of exceptions
21:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> while german has more complicated rules, but then only a handful of exceptions
21:57:18 <planetmaker> wrongly is actually a valid word
21:57:55 <peter1138> incorrectly sounds more, er, correct.
21:58:34 <planetmaker> ^^^probably just much more common
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22:34:34 <ln-> what motherboard do i want?
22:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> one that works.
22:48:16 *** Morloth has joined #openttd
23:01:27 <ln-> i'm thinking of Asus P5KC
23:06:36 *** Progman has joined #openttd
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23:41:04 <ln-> well what would you say about { Asus P5KC + Intel Core2Quad 2.4G + 2x2GB + 500GB + Asus EN8800GT/512M + Antec Sonata Designer 500W } = 871€ ?
23:44:37 <SmatZ> Roujin: probably building rail over one-way roads will be disallowed
23:45:47 <Roujin> i see. well this is the other way to address this problem
23:46:21 <Roujin> why can't a oneway sign be drawn over this?
23:47:28 <SmatZ> if there are barriers, the one-way sign is drawn over them...
23:47:38 <SmatZ> nothing serious, but it was decided not to draw it
23:48:19 <SmatZ> actually, I considered this as a bug, too - so I made the patch, but then Rubidium explained me it is intended
23:48:24 <Roujin> oh, so it's more an issue of taste than of limitations?
23:49:27 <Roujin> well good that you're around right now then ^^ i was starting to make the same patch as you made, appearently ^^
23:50:52 <Roujin> less wasted time, more sleep for me ^_^ good night ^^
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23:52:30 <jez9999> just downloaded a recent beta version, and i cant find any documentation on a config setting
23:52:43 <jez9999> 'manual primary industry construction method'
23:53:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> see the industry icon at the top? if you hold that down you can get to the industry construction window
23:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> normally, you can only place secondary industries (i.e. ones that accept cargo and produce something out of that)
23:54:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12323 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1821](r6789): vehicle sorting by name was broken, it was comparing two the same strings (when caching was not used)
23:54:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> primary industries (that only produce cargo out of nothing) are not allowed
23:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> "prospecting" means you can build primary industries, but can not decide the location, and there is a chance that it does not work at all
23:55:21 <jez9999> and 'as other industries'?
23:55:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, that treats them like they were secondary industries
23:55:52 <jez9999> i like the sound of prospecting
23:55:55 <jez9999> sounds more challenging
23:56:17 <Gonozal_VIII> especially with ecs^^
23:57:22 <Gonozal_VIII> i mean georges vectors...
23:57:44 <Gonozal_VIII> the industries have strict placement rules there, prospecting fails most of the time
23:57:45 <jez9999> sorry i havent used openttd in a while
23:57:59 <jez9999> are they enabled by default in 0.6.0-beta4?
23:58:15 <jez9999> oh, i guess you have to load them
23:58:28 <jez9999> i have to say i didnt think development on this was going anywhere
23:58:38 <jez9999> im quite impressed with 0.6.0-beta4, so many neat patches
23:58:48 <jez9999> you even put in my face customization. :-) didnt think that would ever get in
23:59:39 <Gonozal_VIII> that's the vectors i was talking about
23:59:42 <jez9999> one thing that's missing, though? A good AI. :-) i would soo like an AI that challenges me, and tries to found new industries, and stuff
continue to next day ⏵
