IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-02-26
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00:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> was a woman, of course ;)
00:01:04 <Gonozal_VIII> french teachers are always female
00:03:34 <Sacro> my french teachers *where* female
00:06:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12262 /trunk/src/table/bridge_land.h:
00:06:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Give meaning to the wooden bridge sprites arrays.
00:06:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Add macro MN for easier viewing.
00:07:12 <SpComb> Gonozal_VIII: or multiple, different french teachers
00:07:40 <Gonozal_VIII> multiple different hermaphrodite french teachers? :O
00:11:03 <Sacro> i want a doubly linked list
00:11:13 <Sacro> but where it can have multiple inputs/outputs
00:11:20 <Sacro> like a set of points has 1 pointer in
00:12:19 <Gonozal_VIII> no idea what you want^^
00:13:06 <Sacro> i could easily do it in c
00:13:18 <Sacro> but C# deems that unsfe
00:14:40 <Tefad> my french teacher was female
00:15:25 <Gonozal_VIII> a list is something basic and easy... no idea what you're talking about there
00:15:33 <Tefad> not too many male teachers anyway guys
00:15:45 <Sacro> i'm wanting to do a signalling simulator
00:15:53 <Sacro> but i need some way of representing it all in code
00:17:47 <Sacro> now a piece of track has one input and one output, so that is easy
00:18:02 <Sacro> track has *prevTrack *nextTrack
00:18:22 <Sacro> but a set of points must have *prefTrack and 2 *nextTracks
00:19:11 <Gonozal_VIII> piece of track as object and all that stuff returned through methods
00:19:43 <Sacro> but how would a set of points refer to the 2 next trcks>
00:20:55 <Gonozal_VIII> what's with that set of pointers stuff?
00:21:07 <Sacro> think of a railway line
00:21:26 <Sacro> it has one line going in
00:22:00 <Gonozal_VIII> you only need one, the others are linked to that
00:23:22 <Gonozal_VIII> you could have a list of branches... so at each switch there could be 1-* tracks leading out
00:23:48 <Sacro> i think a skip list is what i require
00:24:03 <Sacro> it even looks like a railway
00:25:12 <Gonozal_VIII> like an index for faster access?
00:25:19 <Sacro> that would allow me to quite easily have 4 lines
00:26:24 <Gonozal_VIII> i think you should get a ordinary list working first before you start with that..
00:26:39 <Sacro> I have ordinary lists working
00:28:19 <Gonozal_VIII> you want to be sacro :O
00:29:25 <Sacro> even Bjarni wants to be me
00:31:23 <Chrill> I get sexed by others than lobster
00:32:54 <Chrill> I get sexed by lobster, AND others
00:34:09 <Sacro> hey, this is no #tycoon
00:36:04 * Chrill brings Sacro to #tycoon
00:47:45 <Gonozal_VIII> what's so funny about that?
00:49:07 <Progman> just like homomorphism on graphs
00:49:58 <Gonozal_VIII> you know that you're a homo, right?
00:50:25 <Tefad> that "joke" is so.. middleschool
00:53:16 <Sacro> Tefad: i'm quite immature
00:55:20 <Gonozal_VIII> bah, now they're talking chinese with japanese subtitles...
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01:07:15 <Sacro> all arrays in C# are implicitly referenced
01:07:32 <Sacro> that makes a shedload more sense
01:07:47 <Gonozal_VIII> implicitly referenced means?
01:14:36 <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: rather than having to use *array
01:14:54 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't get that * and & stuff anyways
01:22:36 <Sacro> * is the variable a pointer is pointing at
01:23:02 <Gonozal_VIII> java doesn't have that
01:23:13 <Tefad> buut it doess have null pointer exceptions
01:23:30 <Sacro> how do you do pass by value/ref?
01:23:38 <Tefad> (excuse douuble characters as mmy computter is lagging and likess to screww wiith me )
01:24:17 <Tefad> everything is reference except the fundamentals
01:24:28 <Tefad> but there are wrapper classes for those even
01:24:32 <Gonozal_VIII> you can copy the value and pass that...
01:25:06 <Sacro> passing by reference you send the *address* of the variable
01:25:35 <Tefad> except you can pass the address of an int
01:25:45 <Tefad> but could make an array of length 1
01:25:59 <Gonozal_VIII> and stuff like that
01:26:20 <Tefad> box = wrap base type into class
01:26:39 <Tefad> some true OOs don't even ahve base types.
01:27:12 <Gonozal_VIII> did you just argue with yourself?
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03:36:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12263 /trunk/src/table/bridge_land.h:
03:36:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Give meaning to the concrete bridge sprites arrays.
03:36:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Add macro MR (PALETTE_TO_STRUCT_RED) for easier viewing.
03:36:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Still more to come.
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04:19:28 <DorpsGek> Gonozal: nappe* could be nappe1 (1 week, 4 days, 5 hours, 19 minutes, and 37 seconds ago) or nappe1afk (1 week, 6 days, 8 hours, 12 minutes, and 41 seconds ago)
04:32:13 <Nite> ok so i wont talk about bugs here
04:32:45 <Nite> yeah especially go to depot order depot bugs
04:33:05 <Gonozal> ... going to depot twice?
04:33:35 <Nite> going to depot and doing the thing thats ordered but not switsching to the next order in the list
04:33:57 <Nite> this happens all teh time in 0.6.0 (all betas)
04:34:04 <Gonozal> that's the not a bug, working as intended kind of thing
04:34:41 <Nite> it cant be because you cant make normal raoutes that way
04:34:46 <Gonozal> maybe a misfeature because people keep complaining about it... but not a bug
04:34:49 <Nite> that include depot orers
04:35:00 <Gonozal> it works if you use service at
04:35:25 <Nite> it also doesent work with the refitt order
04:35:41 <Nite> IT DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK !!!
04:35:53 <Nite> i testet it a zillion times
04:37:01 <Nite> it makes depot oders completely senseless.
04:37:24 <Gonozal> at the beginning of every new day, the vehicle checks if it has to get serviced, if it does and it doesn't have a service at depot order, it will search a path to the nearest depot, even if it already is on its way to a depot
04:38:11 <Gonozal> in other words, it absolutely doesn't care about its current order
04:38:34 <Nite> ok so the goto depot IS senseless then?
04:38:54 <Nite> BUT it did work in 5.3 anytime
04:39:16 <Gonozal> go to depot order is kind of like a waypoint order
04:39:55 <Nite> yeah but i guess you didnt understand that it doesent check the order after it has been at that dapot.
04:40:12 <Gonozal> it never looks at the next order
04:40:38 <Nite> therefore if it has been to depot (by forcing or by itself) it will not continue to the next order still trying to reach the next depot!
04:40:59 <Nite> iam completely missunderstood.
04:41:37 <Gonozal> i understand what you mean, lots of people have already complained about that
04:41:48 <Nite> an i really wonder that such a mayor bug isnt of any intrest to anyone iv met online.
04:42:11 <Gonozal> again.. it's not really a bug
04:42:49 <Nite> ok then its a "feature" that ruins part the gameplay - wheres the difference?
04:43:20 <Nite> we could also name it "beedlbum" still it would suck extremely
04:43:27 <Gonozal> add service at to the depot order or set service interval to 0 or maximum, then it won't happen
04:43:55 <Nite> service at doesent work!
04:44:20 <Nite> have to try the zero intervall.
04:44:41 <Gonozal> zero disables regular servicing completely
04:44:43 <Nite> do you think its beeing worked on to have this "feature" changed/corrected?
04:45:09 <Nite> ok i didnt know about zero disabeling it - but its cool!
04:45:11 <Gonozal> the devs know about it
04:45:42 <Nite> ok so the constant complaining maybe worked ;)
04:46:03 <Gonozal> i don't know if somebody is working on changing that
04:46:11 <Nite> any idea why it worked in 5.3?
04:46:36 <Gonozal> hmmm are there depot orders in 5.3?
04:46:48 <Nite> ill check teh zero then ...
04:48:18 <Gonozal> problem with the zero is that it can only be reached through changing the default setting and then it only applies to new vehicles...
04:49:31 <Gonozal> but if you set it to 800, it should work too
04:50:49 <Nite> it applies to copied vehicles too
04:51:12 <Nite> ill chcking the intervallt hing right now ...
04:52:35 <Nite> ok guess you meant you only can set it in the patch settings and not ingame
05:05:53 <Nite> if train searches for the depot by it intervall it ignores/does not check the depot order
05:06:22 <Gonozal> that's what i said all the time^^
05:06:26 <Nite> someone said it worked in beta2
05:07:07 <Nite> i just know it did in 5.3
05:08:25 <Nite> sry i yust didnt comple4tely get what you mentioned without trying it out by myself
05:09:04 <Nite> so a zero intervall ingame would do it - i still hope its changed ...
05:16:55 <Nite> would be nice if service intervalls could be changed by every user and not only for the whol server/game.
05:19:34 <Gonozal> wouldn't work as multiple users can have the same company
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05:20:58 <Nite> iam getting to understand why this depot order and autoservice is so delicate
05:21:02 <Gonozal> but being able to set it from 0-800 ingame instead of 30-800 would be nice
05:21:56 <Nite> it would suck if train goes to a "wrong" depot and then switches to next the order too
05:22:32 <Nite> but with autoservice off it would work anyways
05:23:02 <Nite> thanks a lot - noone could explain this to me so far.
05:24:56 <Nite> any way to see how long a train hasent been serviced?
05:26:18 <Nite> ok so oyu have to calculate how many days this is by yourself
05:26:21 <Gonozal> well... it's not in days so you have to calculate
05:27:12 <Gonozal> you could suggest to add (x) after the date where x is the number of days...
05:28:00 <Nite> wel i geuss a route taking longer thann 800 days ois unelikely anyway
05:32:08 <Nite> its also tedious taht you cant set the days to 0/800 by typing it in
05:35:48 <Nite> by the way you also can set other umbers ingame and as always a company can be occupied by more players.
05:35:57 <Nite> so why it cant work with this one?
05:36:24 <Gonozal> which setting should vehicles use?
05:36:58 <Nite> always the one thats set at the date/time they are build
05:37:28 <Gonozal> but with multiple company owners there could be different settings
05:38:07 <Nite> well there coulddnt because you set this for teh company not for the player
05:38:30 <Nite> like the autorenew feature
05:41:52 <Nite> even if it would be set for every player maybee the trains could use the setting by the player thatz build them thenplayer then
05:42:16 <Gonozal> that's not stored in the vehicle info
05:42:49 <Nite> so its stored per company?
05:43:29 <Nite> ohh not even by company thats bad ...
05:43:52 <Nite> i slowly get how ttd is built up
05:45:49 <Nite> guess the nearest option is the one click to zero in the vehicles details then ... (and yes thats what you said somehow)
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10:47:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12264 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
10:47:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AITileList_vCargoProduction (yorick)
10:47:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: fixed comments around CargoProduction, so now it reflects what is really does
10:55:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12265 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (16 files): [NoAI] -Add: added a general protection that doesn't allow people using valuators on lists that aren't ment for those valuators
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11:48:01 <DJ-Nekkid> je ne parle pas francoise...
11:48:03 <DJ-Nekkid> and thats about what i know in french :O)
11:48:25 <Gekz> I need to buy azerty stickers for my eee.
11:52:20 <DJ-Nekkid> dvorek is a norweegian vodka ...
11:52:40 <DJ-Nekkid> atleast buyable in norway
11:55:36 <Gekz> peter1138: ... look up azerty
11:55:45 <Gekz> doesnt matter how many times I swap teh keys, it wont make a cedilla
11:56:21 <peter1138> Pah, who cares about the symbol keys...
11:56:48 * peter1138 does altgr + = then c...
11:57:18 <Gekz> too much Windows for you
11:58:54 <peter1138> Yay for cedillas in English.
11:59:47 * keyweed feels an urge to paste the dutch ij.
12:00:42 <keyweed> quite a useles ligature. ij does just as fine as ij
12:06:07 <peter1138> Entries, of course.
12:06:54 <peter1138> Half that list would be gone if you removed names.
12:08:22 <keyweed> über, no language should be without über
12:15:03 <peter1138> # In to outer space
12:19:38 <peter1138> o/˘ Into outer space, with Lucia Pamela
12:19:51 <peter1138> o/˘ the moon is the place where there's space for Lucia
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12:29:28 * keyweed points in the center of the red lights district.
12:29:48 <Gekz> Red lights district? haha.
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13:19:00 <Phantasm> 2 very annoying bugs.. First is that no settings are ever saved unless the game is exited properly. If after, say 10 hours of playing the game crashed all the settings changed before playing, those will all be lost. The savefiles will have the settings of the game you played, but the general settings are gone and must be set again. All those pregame settings should be saved immediately as they are changed.
13:20:31 <Ammler> Phantasm: a export/import function for settings would be fine
13:20:41 <Ammler> btw. thats only a missing feature, not a bug
13:21:13 <peter1138> It's not a bug, it's a design feature...
13:21:23 <Phantasm> And for the another bug.. Manual saves are made to saves directory below the game dir and that is also the same place it looks from when opening saves. However, autosaves are made to my documents. It should never put anything to my documents to start with (no-one really wants anything there)... And at least all should go to same place.
13:21:52 <glx> that depends on where is your openttd.cfg
13:21:54 <Phantasm> I consider it a bug as the program fails to save the settings unless it is exited normally.
13:22:15 <peter1138> "My Documents" is where your user files should live...
13:22:34 <Phantasm> peter1138: No-one even wants anything to be at my documents even though microsoft idiots think so.
13:22:36 <peter1138> "No-one really wants anything there" is not true.
13:23:02 <Phantasm> Well, then have a setting for it?
13:23:09 <Phantasm> Those who want it elsewhere can have it elsewhere.
13:23:12 <glx> that's the only safe place if you have a limited account
13:23:39 <Phantasm> At least the current case of 2 separate folders for different types of saves is a bug.
13:25:31 <Ammler> hmm, autosaves are at MyDocs too, aren't?
13:25:54 <Phantasm> Ammler: Autosaves are in mydocs, every other save and the place it opens saves from are on gamedir/save.
13:26:18 <Ammler> only if you have a openttd.cfg there
13:26:23 <Phantasm> Or well, of course I can manually go to mydocs every time I want to save/load, but that is not so easy.
13:26:35 <Phantasm> All files are where the game put them.
13:26:55 <Phantasm> I don't give a fuck where they are, that is how it works by default and that is where the problem lies.
13:27:08 <Phantasm> Without me modifying thing myself it works as it isn't supposed to work.
13:27:44 <Ammler> hmm, if you don't modify something, every userdata should be at mydocs
13:28:01 <Ammler> I guess, you overwrote a old release
13:28:14 <Ammler> which had all data in gamedir
13:28:40 <Phantasm> I installed the beta3 without having any other version of ottd ever installed on this computer.
13:29:46 <Phantasm> (Of 0.6.0 of course... Haven't played for a while so I don't have beta4 yet. Just remembered the problem now and came to report it.)
13:29:46 <Ammler> and where did you put the origianl GRFs and sample.cat?
13:30:07 <Phantasm> No idea where the installer copied em.
13:30:34 <Ammler> maybe there is the bug (at the installer)?
13:30:34 <peter1138> It’s possible the installer is making the save/ directory when it shouldn’t do.
13:31:48 <peter1138> Also, “<Phantasm> I don't give a fuck where they are”... there is no need for that kind of attitude.
13:32:39 <Phantasm> Repeatedly getting they are where the openttd.cfg is after stating everything is as the installer put is makes me grumpy.
13:33:27 <peter1138> That does not parse.
13:34:07 <glx> ok the installer creates a save dir
13:36:04 <Phantasm> peter1138: I stated everything is as the installer put it and even having stated that, I was repeatedly told that they are where the openttd.cfg is... That makes me grumpy. Considering the bug report it has nothing to do at all where whatsoever is as they are where the installer put em.
13:36:52 <glx> Phantasm: they are where the openttd.cfg is if you don't use the installer :)
13:39:42 <Phantasm> Openttd.cfg is at mydocs and autosaves are there manual save/load open gamedir/save, so that only applies to autosaves.
13:40:27 <Phantasm> Openttd.cfg is at mydocs and autosaves are there while manual save/load opens gamedir/save, so that only applies to autosaves.*
13:42:12 <peter1138> I was going to try out the installer for a moment.
13:42:20 <peter1138> Then I remembered that I am not running Windows...
13:42:55 <glx> peter1138: I tried, and it creates save dir :)
13:45:15 <glx> hmm ok, for saveload dialog, it checks dir existance in same order as it checks openttd.cfg existance on start
13:45:18 <Phantasm> As for the definition of the program of settings not getting saved prior to proper exiting.. I consider anything causing loss of data significantly after the data was last modified as a bug.
13:46:03 <peter1138> The installer does? So that needs fixing...
13:46:14 <glx> so if there's a save dir and no openttd.cfg in install dir it will use this save dir
13:46:47 <Phantasm> Also the fact that if the user makes a save dir (as now the installer does), autosaves and save/load end up to different directory, it is a bug as well. So both installer and the behaviour needs to be fixed.
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13:47:20 <peter1138> Well fix it then :-)
13:47:38 <Phantasm> Nah, I just like to whine.
13:47:38 <glx> Phantasm: autosave dir is determined on start from openttd.xfg emplacement
13:48:01 <glx> save dir is determined everytime you open the saveload window
13:48:05 <peter1138> (Tip, stating that bugs “need to be fixed” does not motivate anyone to actually fix it. Just stating that there is a bug is enough, as it is obvious that bugs need fixing.)
13:49:43 <Phantasm> Ack.. Been awake for an hour and I'm still dead after sleeping for 16 hours..
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14:41:35 <De_Ghost|other> how i check what module is load on nix?
14:42:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12266 /branches/noai/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: [API CHANGE] minor typo in Ai*r*portAvailable (tnx yorick)
14:45:09 <De_Ghost|other> what about currently running threads?
14:45:38 <frosch123> "ps" with various options or "top"
14:46:04 <Phantasm> ps aux lists all running processes, if you also wants threads, see man ps
14:47:14 <De_Ghost|other> where you guys learn all these ?:)
14:47:56 <HMage> we ask the man to tell us
14:50:03 <ln-> frosch123: bash: lsmod: command not found
14:50:39 <De_Ghost|other> the man is so long
14:50:55 <frosch123> ln: don't know. no problem on kubuntu and gentoo
14:52:04 <ln-> frosch123: this is SunOS/Solaris 10.
14:53:26 <De_Ghost|other> how i execute something?
14:54:20 <frosch123> if your executable is not in the search path, you have to preceed it with "./"
14:54:41 <glx> frosch123: ./ means current dir
14:55:35 <frosch123> I know, but I only need it when executing, not when using a file in an other way
14:56:23 <frosch123> like "./bin/openttd" works, but "bin/openttd" doesn't.
14:57:04 <frosch123> ln-: I assume to prevent hiding programs in the search path.
14:57:52 <peter1138> bin/openttd should work...
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15:14:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12267 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix r12266: forgot to update the regression output (again and again...)
15:14:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12268 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_abstractlist.cpp ai_list_valuator.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: allow AIList_vRandomize to run over any list
15:15:38 <LordAzamath> I wanted to ask if you can do the same for already constructed stations...
15:15:54 <LordAzamath> I mean you can see the accept tab there
15:16:28 <LordAzamath> and ratings only appear after you have transported that item already
15:18:06 <Roujin> i guess it's possible..
15:18:46 <Roujin> i'll note it and look into it when i'm on that patch again
15:19:23 <Roujin> atm i'm fiddling with my traffic lights tho :P
15:20:11 <LordAzamath> hmm can you (or anyone) suggest me a fine set of new landscape options... I want to start a new game, but I don't want a louzy map as they always seem to be...õ
15:20:34 <LordAzamath> the size, the roughness, the number of industries etc..
15:20:45 <Roujin> high mountains, medium or more water and restrict yourself from terraforming much?
15:20:59 <LordAzamath> tell me sizes first :P
15:21:50 <LordAzamath> you didn't say ":P"
15:22:45 <Roujin> maybe something long.. 128*1024 or so?
15:22:49 * LordAzamath svn ups a NIGHTLY
15:23:24 <LordAzamath> not nightly actually
15:23:39 <LordAzamath> but the general name for trunk is... nightlys :P
15:24:00 <LordAzamath> anyway, Belugas, any commits coming in next 5 minutes?
15:24:11 <LordAzamath> I'll take the last revision :P
15:24:28 <LordAzamath> because I'm ready to wait ^^
15:24:34 <peter1138> The general name for trunk is trunk.
15:25:17 <LordAzamath> but when it's asked if I play nightlys or stables what should I answer? :o
15:25:51 <LordAzamath> ok.. now compiling
15:26:14 * Roujin made a patch setting that allows random road construction in towns (with lower probability than if it's funded)
15:27:18 * Roujin just tested it and found that at the highest possible setting it would be extremely annoying for anyone who'd like to make a bus route ^^
15:27:45 <Roujin> have to balance the probability still...
15:29:40 <Belugas> LordAzamath, nope, no commits from me for a while
15:29:42 <Roujin> actually it's part of my traffic lights patch @yorick, because I made towns place traffic lights themselves during road construction
15:29:51 <Belugas> not currently, that is
15:32:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12269 /trunk/os/win32/installer/install.nsi: -Fix: [Win32] don't create save dir on install
15:44:53 <Roujin> with the random road construction plus traffic lights, it's actually quite fun just to watch some traffic in a town ^^
15:46:02 <Belugas> you mean vehicles do stop at signals?
15:48:05 <Roujin> oh, that's only as of today and on my hard disk... next update i post in the forums will contain it of course ;)
15:48:37 <Belugas> and is there some sort of synchronization of the lights?
15:48:43 <Belugas> or is it totally random?
15:49:08 <Roujin> it switches every tileloop
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15:52:16 <Roujin> so.. they're not programmable by the user to create some nice traffic flow or so...
15:53:17 <Roujin> also, can't give one of the roads priority over the other (meaning its green phase is longer than the other's) - shame, but wouldn't know how to squeeze that in the map array ;)
16:01:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
16:02:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12270 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIIndustryList_CargoAccepting and AIIndustryList_CargoProducing, which gives you Industry Lists with from where to where you can move cargo
16:03:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12271 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_industrylist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix r12270: save before commit
16:09:28 <ln-> not funny, end of discussion
16:13:07 <Roujin> my my.. loosen up a little
16:14:02 <Roujin> wasn't meant in a negative way - how many times do i compile and wonder why nothing has changed until i notice i didn't save?
16:14:42 <Belugas> does not occur while using MSVC
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16:22:49 <De_Ghost|other> how i boot up ui to look like os
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16:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> <keyweed> quite a useles ligature. ij does just as fine as ij <- (very) old german typesets had "st" and "ck" ligatures (similar to the still existing "sz" ligature (ß))
16:28:35 <keyweed> Eddi|zuHause2: didn't know about 'st' en 'sk'
16:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> up until the spelling reform in 1996, this was still reflected in hyphenating rules
16:29:22 <peter1138> r u shure u 1 2 do vat
16:29:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> different kind of spelling ;)
16:29:52 <Roujin> that's why you weren't allowed to seperate st at line's end? interesting
16:30:39 <keyweed> my german isn't all that good unfortunatly. i can read and understand everything that's said but speaking is a bit tough
16:30:41 <Roujin> they never told me exactly why you're not allowed to do this in school
16:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> but now you may not separate "ck" (used to be k-k)
16:30:57 <Roujin> i know, i'm german aswell :P
16:31:09 <keyweed> my german is understandable but it makes germans laugh every now and then
16:31:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> doesn't mean you know the new spelling rules ;)
16:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> or the old ones ;)
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16:31:52 <keyweed> dutch and german are very a like. but subtle differences can be embarassing
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16:32:53 <keyweed> 'i'm already being served' is 'ik word al geholpen' in dutch, if you translate that litterly in german you get 'ich werde schon geholfen' which translates back to englis as 'i'm already being castrated'
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16:33:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> where do you get "castrated" from?
16:33:47 <Roujin> erm... you sure about that? oO
16:33:55 <keyweed> the girl tending bar in leipzig at wave gotik treffen
16:34:22 <keyweed> she informed me that 'ich werde schon bedient (spelling?)" is the right phrase.
16:35:19 <Roujin> yes, that's correct, but the other phrase doesn't mean you're being castrated, it's just nonsense ;) you may have been made fun of :P
16:37:21 <keyweed> yeah. i know. only fair, we do the same to germans.
16:37:54 <Roujin> 'ich werde schon geholfen' is wrong gramatically, correct would be 'mir wird schon geholfen'. and that would translate as 'i'm being helped' rather than 'i'm being served'
16:38:49 <keyweed> well. in dutch, if you're going to have you're cat helped, it means you're going to have him castrated.
16:39:16 <keyweed> don't know if that's the same in german too. 'help' is interpreted differently everywhere :)
16:40:16 <Roujin> ah no, here we don't interpret "help" as cutting of your nuts
16:40:34 <Roujin> i'd be rather angry if i'd recieve such help you know..
16:40:49 <keyweed> ah. we do. some other nations considder bombing the shit out of people 'help'. it's all a matter of perspective :)
16:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, they "bring democracy"
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16:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... autofilling of timetables is pretty useless
16:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd rather have an estimation based on distance and (expected average) speed
16:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> and setting for loading times
17:07:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have no idea why that tram thing did not disturb anyone before...
17:09:30 <Belugas> with or without grfs?
17:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> but should that matter?
17:12:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> "New Tram Tracks v0.4.1" - 46420801
17:12:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> the one with the one-sided pylons
17:12:54 <Roujin> what do you mean with "that tram thing"? i still don't get it
17:13:48 <Roujin> well nvm, i've got to go anyways... see you later
17:14:01 *** Roujin is now known as Roujin[afk]
17:14:47 <Belugas> Roujin[afk] , Eddi|zuHause2 posted a bug report. If you want to be in the loop, just get yourself in #openttd.notice
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17:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> after some testing, i really like the idea of the vehicle separation patch
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17:34:05 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2, could you provide a screenshot please?
17:38:55 <peter1138> You’re not allowed to cut trees down these days...
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18:02:10 <Belugas> don't even know how to fix that stupid glitch
18:03:06 <Belugas> wold imply changing the tile to ROADSIDE_PAVED only, but i do not see where nor under which conditions
18:09:20 <Belugas> ho... only need to do that on roads crossing tram tracks indeed
18:12:56 <Belugas> and what about drawroadbits...
18:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: afaik there recently was a patch to suppress drawing trees under bridges, maybe it is something similar
18:15:20 *** |Bastiaan| has joined #openttd
18:17:29 <Roujin[afk]> Belugas: what's that #openttd.notice you wrote about? an irc channel?
18:17:44 *** Roujin[afk] is now known as Roujin
18:18:42 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2, i doubt it is related
18:19:10 <Belugas> but i have to admit, i know VERY litle about roads
18:19:52 *** LordAzamath has left #openttd
18:20:13 <Belugas> well... nothing i can do up until i'm at home :(
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18:20:28 <Belugas> hoping that i do remember about it :S
18:21:34 <Belugas> i do have a plan, but i'm not sure where to "attack" it
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18:24:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12272 /trunk/src/table/bridge_land.h: -Codechange: A bit of code style fixes (tabs instead of spaces), one space too many before macro definition and rename marco MB (MakeBridge) for MBR(MakeBRidge)
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18:32:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12273 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (28 files): [NoAI] -Documentation: big change of many list-related comments. It is now more readable, more explaining, and all unneeded things (API-wise) are removed
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18:34:12 <[1]Roujin> belugas: how does your plan for that bug look like? I think i could do something there, or do you want to do it yourself now?
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18:34:59 <Belugas> currently, no code yet
18:35:35 <Sionide> anyone remember in windows, how i set it so the user account auto logs on without having to type the password?
18:35:37 <[1]Roujin> i could think of a) disable lamps/trees if tram tracks are present
18:35:37 <Belugas> it should be done either during tileloop (my prefered way)
18:36:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12274 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Change: [API CHANGE] Removed AITownList_vRandomize, as AIList_vRandomize already does that
18:36:59 <[1]Roujin> or b) draw them according to road and tram bits rather than only road bits
18:37:10 <Belugas> indeed Roujin, using SetRoadSide, around line 1247 and 1291
18:37:39 <Belugas> draw.. not too sure about draw, finally
18:37:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12275 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_vehiclelist_valuator.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix r12273: people always find typos AFTER you commit :( (tnx yorick)
18:37:45 <[1]Roujin> problem is b) would add trees and lamps to the sides of tram-only and i don't know how that would look oO
18:37:48 <Belugas> it shold be a state marked
18:38:41 <Phantasm> Belugas: Any news for the too little industry and big maps bug?
18:38:48 <nzvip> Newest revision of trunk does not compile for me. ;-;
18:39:00 <Belugas> Roujin: the idea is : road crossign a tram track? setRoadSide(ROADSIDE_PAVED) or something
18:39:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12276 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Fix: more typos (tnx yorick)
18:40:46 <[1]Roujin> you sure you'd rather change the roadside than just prevent drawing the tree/lamps?
18:40:48 <nzvip> Belugas: You know anything about this not compiling?
18:40:52 <nzvip> Or am I missing something?
18:41:05 <Belugas> could help getting your error
18:41:25 <nzvip> [LANG] Compiling string.cpp
18:41:25 <nzvip> /home/svip/openttd-dev/trunk/src/openttd.h:121: error: expected unqualified-id before ‘<<’ token
18:41:44 <Belugas> does not ring a bell to me
18:42:23 <[1]Roujin> I mean, the commit by frosch (iirc) that prevented trees&lamps under bridges also just prevented them being drawn, not changed the whole roadside
18:42:26 <nzvip> Is it possible to download an entire new version of the trunk, rather than updating it, Belugas?
18:42:36 <nzvip> I know it is, but I forget the svn command.
18:43:07 <Belugas> nzvip : svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
18:43:43 <Belugas> nzvip, you could svn revert trunk too...
18:43:46 <peter1138> Belugas, do it the same way as under bridges.
18:43:48 <Noldo> svn status should tell if there are differences
18:43:57 * NukeBuster is away: Driving lessons (stay inside)
18:44:14 <nzvip> I see a lot of question marks, Noldo.
18:44:17 <peter1138> Bah, RoR’s recovery truck is useless for things lower than itself...
18:44:48 <[1]Roujin> then the correct place is right before the line: /* Draw extra details. */ <-- in road_cmd.cpp i guess
18:44:49 <glx> nzvip: looks like a conflict
18:45:15 <nzvip> Entirely redownloading the thing made it work.
18:45:19 <[1]Roujin> there's the check for bridges aswell
18:45:39 <Noldo> new check out is like booting, solutuing for the lazy
18:48:47 <Belugas> Noldo, that or a new project ;)
18:49:00 <Belugas> noted peter1138 and [1]Roujin
18:50:43 <Wolf01> Belugas, do you know I still not understand what are you doing with bridges? :P
18:52:31 <[1]Roujin> Eddi: do you have the savegame where you encountered the glitch?
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18:54:19 <glx> Wolf01: for now he just do some cleanup to make the code easier to understand
18:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> [1]Roujin: yes, but it is with Gonozal_VIII's patch pack, and huge
18:56:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> should be easier to just create a new game, or not?
18:57:26 <Gonozal_VIII> what's with my patchpack?
18:58:00 <[1]Roujin> ouch... i failed to make a town with trees on the roadside
18:58:09 <[1]Roujin> turns out i had full details deactivated
18:59:22 <Gonozal_VIII> strange, the logs stop 16 min ago
18:59:31 <Gonozal_VIII> that could be the reason^^
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19:01:26 <Gonozal_VIII> :S there's different stuff in the logs than here
19:01:51 <[1]Roujin> well I've tried out my proposal b) i mentioned before
19:02:12 <Gonozal_VIII> sooo what were you talking about?
19:02:23 <[1]Roujin> pros: only one little change in code: ...[road] goes ...[road | tram]
19:02:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: it's a secret
19:02:50 <[1]Roujin> cons: makes a roadside (even with trees/lamps) for tram only tracks in the town
19:03:38 <[1]Roujin> i'll post a screen at your flyspray entry eddi
19:04:53 <[1]Roujin> uh btw, does newest trunk compile now?
19:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, my tram system is not capable of bringing the people to the main station anymore...
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19:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> i need a subway...
19:13:59 <[1]Roujin> oo that notice channel is really interesting
19:15:03 <[1]Roujin> didn't know it's also combined with flyspray ^^
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19:22:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> how does one build a subway without destroying half the city?
19:22:29 <Gonozal_VIII> through coding subways
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19:23:15 <LordAzamath> paste.openttd.org is getting a spamattack :O
19:24:43 <LordAzamath> it's quite... bad
19:26:14 <LordAzamath> why can't one make a spam report at openttd pastebin?
19:26:39 <LordAzamath> for example pastebin.com allows such thing
19:26:55 <Belugas> not much that can't be done
19:27:57 <LordAzamath> but what can be done?
19:29:40 <Belugas> just forwarding admin's answer ;)
19:30:48 <LordAzamath> you could have the IP's blocked... although they are probably dynamic...
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19:32:26 * LordAzamath doesn't like homework...
19:32:45 *** planetmaker is now known as pm|away
19:35:52 <peter1138> What about workhome?
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19:39:24 <LordAzamath> like homeschooling?
19:40:58 <LordAzamath> arghh... Boron is a non-metallic element isn't it?
19:41:23 <Belugas> maybe. I know Moron is, for sure :)
19:42:22 <LordAzamath> you can't write Boron (III) oxide in that case...
19:42:40 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Moron is non-flammable.
19:42:42 * LordAzamath hopes translation is correct :P
19:42:55 <Maedhros> why not? it's not just metallic elements that have oxidation states ;)
19:43:15 <LordAzamath> but they aren't written that way
19:43:35 <Prof_Frink> 'cause, as we know, Oxymoron is self-contradictory.
19:43:48 <LordAzamath> they are written by indexes, not by oxydation levels..
19:44:58 <Maedhros> erm, which indices? you mean the fact that boron is in group 13? (or 3, if your periodic table is old)
19:46:10 <LordAzamath> which means that boron has oxydation level three always, isn't it so...
19:46:39 <LordAzamath> which means even if it would be metallic, the (III) part would not be mentioned..
19:47:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is Lead (II) and Lead (IV) oxide
19:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> or more commonly, sulphate
19:47:56 <Maedhros> mmm, but lead is a much heavier element
19:48:10 <LordAzamath> Pb is in fourth group
19:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> and there is Iron (II) and Iron (III)
19:48:28 <LordAzamath> Fe is not constant
19:48:29 <Prof_Frink> "We're using ACDC because it's heavy metal."
19:48:59 <Maedhros> and iron is a transition metal, which behave quite differently to main block elements :p
19:49:06 <Prof_Frink> Look Around You S1 ftw.
19:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> what exactly is boron anyway? never heard that before
19:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> ah, that is just "Bor" here
19:50:46 <LordAzamath> and Eddi|zuHause2, AFAIK IA, IIA, IIIA group elements have constand oxidation levels...
19:51:21 <LordAzamath> some others too (like Zn), but we don't have to learn them...
19:52:07 <LordAzamath> Eddi|zuHause2: usually?
19:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's an exeption for everything ;)
19:52:55 <Maedhros> non-integer oxidation states are always fun :)
19:52:56 <LordAzamath> exceptions confirm the rule
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19:54:56 <LordAzamath> :O, I was about to write in English in my chemistry exercise book :O
19:54:56 <Roujin> added fix to eddi's flyspray bug report, secondly afk.
19:55:50 <Roujin> thirdly, probably upping new version of traffic lights later (after dinner ;))
19:56:31 <LordAzamath> someone should poke BigBB to update his road lamps for each position patch..
19:56:47 <LordAzamath> If it's nice, it could be worthy of trunk...
19:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i understand why CBR for rails was not finished, but wasn't there a plan to do CBR for roads at least?
19:57:45 <LordAzamath> :O I have to compare CO and CO2
19:58:40 <Maedhros> as i remember, the C++ port was driven at the time by custom bridgeheads...
19:59:17 <peter1138> CBR was finished for both roads and rails...
19:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> the system was incapable of trains stopping at signals on the bridge heads
19:59:31 <peter1138> Then it was made conflicting...
20:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> but roads have no signals
20:00:28 <LordAzamath> ok, tis almost the last time I'll mention my homework here :D, does Chlorum have constand oxidation level?
20:02:38 <Maedhros> +7 is... unlikely ;)
20:04:17 <LordAzamath> but +1, +3, +5 are also possible :D
20:06:34 <Maedhros> true, but also unlikely (8-electron rule :)
20:09:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i can't put tram stations on bridges...
20:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> with the road tiles being full, would CBR for roads actually fit in the map? the 2 bridge above bits could be used for the ramp direction, but there must be a bit for determining if it's a road or rail bridge...
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20:27:45 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
20:28:27 <Sacro> will openttd be participating in GSoC?
20:32:51 <LordAzamath> Sacro: What is GSoc?
20:33:44 <LordAzamath> GSOC - German Space Operations Center
20:35:33 <Roujin> german wikipedia says german space operations center; english wikipedia says google stuff :P
20:36:10 *** Patrick` has joined #openttd
20:36:37 <peter1138> Oh god, it’s Patrick`
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20:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> why does Ctrl+X not work anymore?
20:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> (open transparency toolbar)
20:39:44 <Gonozal_VIII> try strg instead of ctrl :-)
20:39:48 <Patrick`> hurrah, someone who remembers that I'm not just a random drifter!
20:40:02 <Gonozal_VIII> hi random drifter
20:40:30 <yorick> wait-that's Gonozal_VIII
20:40:36 <Patrick`> Not That I Am Condoning Copyright Infringement But If Someone Was To Pm Me A Link To The Data Files On A Web Server Somewhere On Account Of I Lost Mine When My Hard Drive Blew Up, I'd Be Very Grateful
20:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> then Gonozal_VIII broke it ;)
20:40:54 <Patrick`> revision 12k, good going
20:41:12 <Patrick`> I kinda gave up on ottd back at 3900 or so
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20:41:15 <glx> I use clean trunk, so Eddi|zuHause2 is probably right :)
20:41:19 <peter1138> You want to ... download. transporttycoon. from the .net?
20:42:49 <Patrick`> ok, yeah, I coulda just underdogs'd it
20:42:52 <Patrick`> but I forgot about them
20:43:26 <Patrick`> yorick: my apologies to yourself and orudge
20:43:28 * peter1138 ponders adding the ‘kick-off’ acceleration bug back to annoy Patrick`...
20:43:30 * glx slaps yorick: don't post "direct" links here
20:43:43 <Patrick`> it's good to see you again :)
20:43:47 *** Zaviori has joined #openttd
20:43:59 <yorick> I should be able to post owenrudge.net links
20:44:39 *** Diabolic-Angel has quit IRC
20:45:27 <Patrick`> glx: hence the PM, at least I tried ...
20:45:47 <Patrick`> it's very important that we be seen to be actively discouraging copyright infringement.
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20:46:43 <Patrick`> ln-! I remember him!
20:46:55 <yorick> besides, it wasn't a direct one
20:47:04 <LordAzamath> Patrick`: Any special reason for highlightning them? :D
20:47:16 <Patrick`> I hope to cause a flame war, of course
20:47:17 <yorick> it was a link to a page that had mirror link
20:47:35 <LordAzamath> Patrick`: Well, if you REALLY want to...
20:48:30 * LordAzamath flames Patrick` ... or was it Gonozal_IX?
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20:51:49 <LordAzamath> peter1138: That's when it's lightning outside and you are somewhere near high spot, possibly wearing an antenna
20:52:36 <LordAzamath> Gonozal_IX: Why did you come back? :O We had so much fun about talking about you...
20:52:38 <Gonozal_VIII> it takes the stupid irc client 10 minutes to find out that it's disconnected
20:53:09 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: unplug the connection killer ;)
20:53:25 <Gonozal_VIII> there are two of them now...
20:53:35 * orudge downloads peter1138 from the net
20:54:11 * LordAzamath uploads an orudge to the net
20:54:31 <Gonozal_VIII> why does it take mirc so long to find out that the connection is gone?
20:55:05 <LordAzamath> because your net is slowed down by orudge, who is downloading and me, who is uploading
20:56:41 <LordAzamath> whoah, I had no idea that orudge took 4,5 KB :O. Now I freed half of the space in my computer :O
20:57:16 <Gonozal_VIII> you have a 9kb hd?
20:58:13 <LordAzamath> 10KB, but 1KB of that is required for firmware
20:58:58 <Patrick`> man, I remember when the internet mattered and I used to argue with you all the time
21:00:06 <LordAzamath> Gonozal_IX: I just replied to your thread :)
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21:00:54 <LordAzamath> a VERY informative post, one should say...
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21:02:16 <LordAzamath> Gonozal_VIII: You disconnected again?
21:02:41 <LordAzamath> 23:00:00LordAzamath Gonozal_IX: I just replied to your thread :)Kasutaja Axamentia ühines kanaliga #openttd 23:00:24 23:00:48LordAzamath a VERY informative post, one should say...
21:03:00 <Gonozal_VIII> don't copy stuff, i read the logs :P
21:03:19 <glx> and when you copy, do it better ;)
21:03:19 <LordAzamath> never read logs..!
21:04:01 <Gonozal_VIII> there is some norwayianish stuff...
21:04:33 <LordAzamath> "Please try to include this awesome patch in Gogozal multi-patch project.", so you are now Gogozal_VIII?
21:04:49 <LordAzamath> and it's Norwegian..
21:05:34 <Vikthor> No I told to ask Gonozal, not me
21:06:06 <LordAzamath> I asked Gonozal_VIII, if he is now gogozal :D
21:06:52 <[1]Roujin> according to my gf (who understands a little norwegian) he asked for a step by step instruction how to split (?) up the patch(es?)
21:07:12 <LordAzamath> He asked that from Trond??
21:07:31 <Gonozal_VIII> the patches are all in the patches.zip...
21:08:19 <LordAzamath> hmm... you should tell him that :P
21:08:25 <[1]Roujin> oh, nvm, not split..
21:08:52 <Gonozal_VIII> i think i'll include that patch vikthor.. well... if it works^^
21:08:55 <[1]Roujin> misread "spilt" for "split" :D
21:09:31 <LordAzamath> what is spilting?
21:09:31 <[1]Roujin> so he probably asked for a step by step instruction how to _play_ with these patches...
21:10:03 <Gonozal_VIII> through downloading the binary^^
21:10:30 <[1]Roujin> well he wrote that he managed to get it running one post later, so...
21:10:45 <Vikthor> Gonozal_VIII: So far i believe there are no known bugs, but there are few issues, like that malicious player can more easily disrupt your game.
21:11:18 <Vikthor> anyway that's server admin decision, he can turn the patch off
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21:12:47 <LordAzamath> how many servers are there anyway, which use patched versions, Vikthor?
21:13:22 * LordAzamath goes to sleep soon, be ready
21:13:40 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess most of the patched servers are not announced
21:14:56 <LordAzamath> true, but that also means that if I don't say it aloud, I can't play online with patched client anyway..
21:15:23 <LordAzamath> AND, don't think of my last sentence that I have used your patchpack.. UGH
21:15:29 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have any friends?
21:15:32 <Vikthor> LordAzamath: I don't know I run one with gonozal's pack and my patch, and judging by number of downloads I am the only one
21:17:01 <Vikthor> Not that I play alone, there are few people from Tycoonez:community, but that's pretty much it
21:19:33 <fjb> Hm... MiniIN, ChrisIN, GonoIN... see which wins the price for staying maintainable for the longest time.
21:20:01 <Gonozal_VIII> <-- very reliable
21:20:40 <Patrick`> can I act all dumb over the new options so someone tells me what to do
21:20:49 <Patrick`> MiniIN is still going? crazy
21:21:05 <Patrick`> someone made better roads, that's good
21:21:10 <Patrick`> "remove absurbd elements"
21:21:20 <Gonozal_VIII> but the patches are all seperate... if one of them gets broken beyond repair because of trunk changes i can just drop it until there is a new version
21:21:22 <Patrick`> town growth modifier, cities, all good and understandable things
21:21:36 <Patrick`> "prospecting", now what's all that about
21:21:42 <Patrick`> manual primary industry construction method
21:22:18 <fjb> You pay the money and eventually that industry gets build somewhere on the map.
21:22:25 <Gonozal_VIII> you fund it, it appears at a random spot on the map... or your money is gone and no industry appears...
21:22:32 <LordAzamath> fjb: It's Gonozal_VIIIIN, not GonoIN :P
21:23:01 <Gonozal_VIII> i could just go back to long_filename^^
21:23:07 <Patrick`> and "as other industries" means it picks one at random?
21:23:10 <Patrick`> that sounds rather fun
21:23:27 <Gonozal_VIII> as other industries means you can place it yourself
21:23:38 <Patrick`> or "none" for not building primaries
21:23:40 <ln-> Patrick`: was OpenTTD partially made by using disassembled code from the original TTD exe?
21:23:58 <Gonozal_VIII> nope, not partially^^
21:24:00 <Patrick`> ln-: revision 1 from the original database was the results of a disassembler
21:24:11 <Patrick`> hence all the structs in the industry layout code
21:24:17 <LordAzamath> no.. there were revisions before r1
21:24:18 <Patrick`> unless they've been polished up
21:24:30 <Patrick`> LordAzamath: check the log for revision 1
21:24:42 <DorpsGek> yorick: Commit by truelight :: r1 / (202 files in 13 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
21:24:42 <Patrick`> says it was revision 9 hundred and something from the old archive
21:24:43 <DorpsGek> yorick: Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
21:24:46 <peter1138> The other r1 is not the first revision either, of course...
21:24:50 <ln-> Patrick`: good, you have learned that much since last time.
21:25:30 <LordAzamath> Ok.. anyway, good night.. You can start flaming me....
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21:25:57 <fjb> That is alway a good idea.
21:26:40 <Patrick`> is the AI still really useless and snarls up the map with shitty track everywhere?
21:26:55 <Patrick`> or else buses up a town and makes it grow bloblike to consume half the map
21:27:25 <Gonozal_VIII> nah, it just messes up the landscape, builds and removes track until its money is gone
21:27:35 * fjb thinks Gonozal_VIII must be a white haired pale and a bit strange looking guy...
21:27:46 <Patrick`> someone polished up "very low" industry density and committed it
21:27:50 <yorick> but the noai ai's are doing prety well
21:28:20 <dih> now that noai is again under dev :-)
21:28:27 <Gonozal_VIII> did you find google fjb?
21:29:12 * fjb remembered the silver coverd books on the attic.
21:29:59 <fjb> Yeah. I read them when I was a kid.
21:30:48 <Gonozal_VIII> the books leave out most of the good stuff...
21:30:59 <peter1138> Those are the bits your imagination fills in.
21:32:21 <Gonozal_VIII> [22:30:58] <@peter1138> Those are the bits your imagination fills in. <-- huh?
21:32:39 <fjb> The good parts are your imagination.
21:33:14 <Gonozal_VIII> the books are only a short version of the original... you know that, right?
21:33:40 <peter1138> Are you referring to some particular series of books, or books in general?
21:33:57 <Gonozal_VIII> the ones on fjbs attic^^
21:35:27 <Gonozal_VIII> about 160k pages of finest science fiction :-)
21:35:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12277 /branches/noai/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
21:35:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change: overlay GlobalPointer with local instance access and create sub-node to contain data
21:35:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change: relay PrintFunc to redirect via overlay and supply AIController with Print, in order to establish bypass of the log created by the AI
21:35:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [/STARTREK VOYAGER]
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21:37:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> argh, i built this subway to reduce the passenger load, but now i have more passengers waiting than ever...
21:37:41 <Patrick`> geeze, how long have I been out of it
21:38:00 <fjb> Finest science fiction? A german science fiction trivial book series from the 60s.
21:38:34 <Gonozal_VIII> from 1961 until forever!
21:39:54 <Patrick`> but what about the cake
21:40:27 <Gonozal_VIII> they predicted the moonlanding to be 1971...
21:40:28 <fjb> Yeah, every week a book. Written very hasty by a lot of different auther.
21:41:06 <Gonozal_VIII> !!! don't talk that way about the bestest of the best, nothing is besterer!
21:41:35 <fjb> But it's the truth. Scifi for small money.
21:42:06 <fjb> If you like good Scifi from the 60s then read Lem.
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21:44:03 <ActySofts> Anyone with knowledge of C(++) and UTF-8 (and the W32 API preferably, but optional)? I need some help.
21:44:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12278 /branches/noai/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): [NoAI] -Fix r12211: MSVC project files weren't generated correctly
21:44:39 <Gonozal_VIII> don't ask that kind of stuff, ask your question directly
21:45:45 <ActySofts> Does it matter if UTF-8 is stored as signed or unsigned char? It might be a pain to cast everything to signed char for use with most of the Windows API.
21:45:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12279 /branches/noai/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): [NoAI] -Fix r12211: by mistake committed new files in MSVC project files that .. well .. aren't done yet ;)
21:46:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Patrick`> subway? <- not a real subway, but a railway that is one level below the town, with tunnels to not destroy it all
21:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> but the new PBS are awesome ;)
21:46:36 <peter1138> ActySofts, I doubt it cares.
21:47:04 <ActySofts> Well, at least here, MSVC shouts at me for doing it.
21:47:09 <Gonozal_VIII> somebody wrote about that signed char stuff some days ago... i still don't get it, wtf is a signed char
21:47:33 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, ‘char’ is C-ese for ‘8 bit data type’
21:47:54 <peter1138> Being an 8 bit value, it can be signed or unsigned.
21:47:54 <ActySofts> it's a char that can represent from -128 to 127, which is by defautl the same as char, while unsigned uses the whole byte for postitive, up to 256
21:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: the bit representations are exactly the same
21:48:57 <Gonozal_VIII> silence the warnings with a cast :-) i did that with the comparison of signed and unsigned int crap too...
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21:49:16 <ActySofts> I'd do that but I' not sure if there are issues with that
21:49:49 <ActySofts> as casting to a signed representation from an unsigned one that goes beyond signed limit could break some stuff
21:50:03 <ActySofts> but then I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking in the first place
21:50:47 <peter1138> Just use 'char', you shouldn't need to use signed or unsigned anywhere.
21:50:58 <Gonozal_VIII> btw if char is the 8 bit stuff, what's byte then?
21:51:22 <ActySofts> well OTTD tells MSVC to treat char as unsigned and it uses UTF-8 (I believe), so that's one reason for the question
21:51:34 <peter1138> byte does not exist.
21:52:32 <Gonozal_VIII> wtf byte does not exist
21:52:47 <ActySofts> typedef unsigned char byte; >.<
21:52:52 <Gonozal_VIII> there are lots of bytes in the code
21:53:11 <peter1138> See what ActySofts wrote.
21:53:27 <ActySofts> byte means 8 bits, it's just like a meter being 10 decimeters
21:53:56 <Gonozal_VIII> i can do java but c data stuff is complicated
21:54:14 <ActySofts> C data stuff...well C++ isn't as much
21:54:29 <ActySofts> the thing is with C & C++ being static languages
21:54:45 <ActySofts> use Python if you don't want to deal with low-level stuff
21:54:50 <[1]Roujin> Gonozal: typedef unsigned char byte; <-- that means "if i write 'byte' somewhere in the code, treat it as if i'd written 'unsigned char' ;)
21:55:24 <ActySofts> but unlike #define byte char, typedefs ensure proper type-checking
21:55:59 <Gonozal_VIII> what's the point with uint8?
21:56:05 <Maedhros> i'm pretty sure gcc will ignore it if you mix byte and uint8
21:56:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, the paxdest gets horribly confused when lines have multiple transfer points
21:56:12 <ActySofts> (that's what I've been told, but in what way does it provite it?)
21:56:29 <peter1138> uint8 follows the style of uint16 and uint32
21:56:54 <ActySofts> Maedhros: kinda all compilers ignore it since...well...it's an alias, so there shouldn't be any differences
21:57:13 <ActySofts> also, exactly what benefit does typedefs provide over #defines?
21:57:40 <peter1138> #defines are ugly ;)
21:58:07 <ActySofts> #define _T(x) L ## x --> not much you can do in other ways
21:58:09 <peter1138> "#define byte unsigned char" would not work
21:58:31 <peter1138> Cos I would disallow it ;D
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22:00:56 <ActySofts> OK, so peter, you are suggesting m to use plain char to store UTF-8, but in openttd MSVC is told to make it unsigned, why?
22:01:08 <peter1138> Probably MSVC is a bitch...
22:01:54 <ActySofts> umm, the projects are set with /J (treat char as default unsigned)
22:02:21 <ActySofts> so is it done for a purpose or it's an overlook?
22:02:22 <peter1138> Well you need to be doubly sure with MSVC...
22:03:17 <ActySofts> heh, a few days ago MSVC gave me errors in the windows headers O_o
22:03:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12280 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AICargoList (Morloth)
22:03:56 <ActySofts> I was like "WTF?! You guys can't manage your own stuff? How did ya compile MSVC with then? GCC?!"
22:04:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12281 /branches/noai/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): [NoAI] -Fix r12280: forgot to update MSVC project files
22:04:29 <ActySofts> truebrain: you forgot to do that twice in a row?
22:05:00 <ActySofts> hmm, he doesn't seem to be on IRC
22:05:27 <peter1138> Never mind, it is only a branch...
22:05:38 <Morloth> peter1138: It's THE branch ;)
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22:19:03 <ActySofts> For x64, is `int' 64-bit or 32-bit?
22:19:27 <peter1138> Generally 32 for compatibility...
22:19:46 <peter1138> Or something silly...
22:19:50 <glx> right there are long int for 64 bits
22:20:09 * peter1138 feeds Sacro with 37 bit data types.
22:21:05 <peter1138> Because 23 is not 37, obviously.
22:21:35 <ActySofts> sizeof(int) = sizeof(long) + 1 ;)
22:21:41 <fjb> But 23 bit would get him eventually iluminated.
22:21:43 * SmatZ likes __attribute__ ((mode (TI)))
22:27:22 <Patrick`> this AI seems to like building airports a lot more than it used to
22:32:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12282 /trunk/projects/generate.vbs: -Fix (r12123): generate.vbs should not skip files in NO_THREADS section of source.list
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22:34:54 <[1]Roujin> sooo.. play a little with my updated TL patch and leave me some comments, will ya? ;)
22:35:09 <[1]Roujin> where TL = traffic lights
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23:01:24 <Patrick`> it seems the wiki is lacking junctions that utilise "build anything you damn well want to under a bridge"
23:01:48 <Patrick`> I had the default AI just build a bridge, then build a loop of track under the bridge and running parallel to it :(
23:02:38 <Gonozal_VIII> wiki junctions suck and ai does that
23:03:57 <Phantasm> I almost never find any need for any weird junctions..
23:04:20 <Patrick`> great minds think alike :)
23:04:46 <Patrick`> I do my middle with bridges, I don't use build on slope for prudish reasons (it's ugly)
23:05:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12283 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_industry.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: document that GetProduction can return -1 if the Industry doesn't produce the Cargo (tnx Progman)
23:05:12 <Patrick`> signals on bridgeheads would be possible
23:05:43 <Patrick`> yours is nicer, less ups and downs
23:05:44 <Gonozal_VIII> more slopes with bridges...
23:06:09 <Patrick`> I built it back when RA allowed a fully laden maglev to do top speed as long as it didn't corner
23:06:10 <Gonozal_VIII> i tried to minimise them too
23:06:18 <Patrick`> I think we minimised it as much as possible
23:06:25 <Phantasm> Literally anything can be transfered with a track pair (one for each way).. And generally there isn't need for that much multiple stuff to go to same station that having different rails wouldn't be a problem.
23:06:28 <Patrick`> the shortest turn is 7 half-tiles
23:07:00 <Gonozal_VIII> or 6 if it goes on in the same direction
23:07:16 <Patrick`> I thought a sideways kink wasn't penalised no matter how small it was
23:07:27 <Patrick`> I'd experiment but it's zed time
23:07:36 <Gonozal_VIII> but there was something with 6^^
23:07:40 <Patrick`> I've done sidesteps of features before
23:08:07 <Patrick`> my mainline's been going on the same x-axis for 600 tiles, then I find a bit of landscape. Hurrah.
23:08:45 <Patrick`> merge-before-split tho
23:08:54 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, that's a problem there
23:09:16 <Gonozal_VIII> but not a big one
23:09:25 <Patrick`> yeah, you really gotta cram it up
23:09:44 <Patrick`> was the crappiness associated with multiple-width track junctions ever sorted out?
23:09:52 <Gonozal_VIII> trains can do u-turns if they really need to...
23:09:55 <Patrick`> as in, trains would pile onto one line until it was full
23:10:17 <Patrick`> I tried to build a flip-flop train splitter but never succeeded
23:10:32 <Patrick`> then we started to make nand gates and got distracted
23:10:40 <Gonozal_VIII> well, yapp looks 10 signals ahead by default... a full line has most of them red so high penalty
23:12:06 <Patrick`> so if I space out my signals a bit more and add cross-tracks, it'll naturally load balance
23:12:37 <ben_goodger> how long before openttd is turing-complete?
23:13:18 <ben_goodger> one could just about implement a microprocessor using little shunters
23:13:19 <Patrick`> they take some time to reset, though, because a little train has to go back to the start of the gate :)
23:14:37 <Gonozal_VIII> and then port openttd to that^^
23:15:24 <ben_goodger> seriously, 8486 in openttd
23:15:42 <ben_goodger> you'd have to use maglevs [for speed :P], but you could do quite complex stuff with it
23:16:24 <Gonozal_VIII> don't juse could all the time... you can
23:17:21 <ben_goodger> well, it hasn't been done yet, so it's still a "could", as in "potential"
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23:45:44 <foe> Can I change the cargo weight multiplier in the cfg?
23:46:32 <foe> It doesn't have a variable
23:46:56 <foe> There's FreightWagonMult in src/train.h, but there's no FreightWagonMult in the cfg.
23:47:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12284 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AICargoList_v(IsFreight|CargoIncomes) (Morloth)
23:47:51 <foe> So freight_trains = 1 means the train is twice as heavy when loaded?
23:48:36 <foe> ...multiplying a weight factor of each type of goods?
23:49:00 <Gonozal_VIII> everything with the is_freight flag
23:52:01 <foe> Is there any way to set the cost of construction to a higher factor than "high"?
23:53:05 <Gonozal_VIII> there's a grf that lets you change costs
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