IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-02-20
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00:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> "blaugrau" != "blau"
00:03:04 <michi_cc> and I'm off to sleep
00:05:03 <fjb> Hm, another kind of blue. Never knew that. And the green could be a special color scheme for taking pictures. Like the color scheme for steam engines.
00:06:08 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess i'll have to update my patchpack again too then
00:06:34 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm not now.. tomorrow
00:07:46 <fjb> Ah, miche fixed the self locking bug.
00:08:56 <fjb> I'm going to bake a new binary now. :-)
00:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: like i said, the blue was an invention of the 1950s
00:09:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> at the same time as the introduction of the E10
00:09:24 <fjb> The earlier blue looked almost the same.
00:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a distinct lack of good diesel engines...
00:20:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> the V160 is too weak for heavy passenger trains, and the BR 232 is too slow for express passenger trains
00:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> so i don't have diesel engines for heavy express passenger trains
00:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm rotating my V200 right now
00:24:28 <fjb> Why do you not electrify that line?
00:26:13 <SpComb> hmm... broadcast is difficult
00:26:58 <fjb> That did change a bit in v6.
00:28:07 <SpComb> but I've managed to break IPv4 broadcast as well, even though linux's AF_INET6 sockets should be backwards-compatible with AF_INET
00:28:45 <SpComb> a packet sent from an AF_INET6 socket to an IPv4 broadcast address doesn't seem to arrive at the destination socket, regardless of if that's AF_INET or AF_INET6
00:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> 2 V160? i have never seen such a train ;)
00:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i don't like electrifying the whole network
00:30:48 <fjb> Hm, maybe that is an oddity of the Linux networking stack. They had a strange v6 implementation at first. Maybe they didn't correct everything yet.
00:31:04 <fjb> 2 V160 were used sometimes.
00:31:35 <fjb> And a line with heavy express passenger trains is a main line.
00:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, yes, but with very few towns, practically every line is a main line
00:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> it wouldn't be such an issue, if i had engine switching...
00:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> a V160 is fine in flat land, but on the hilly routes (that are already electrified) i'd rather use a BR 180 or something
00:35:15 <fjb> You could implement shunting.
00:35:29 <fjb> You would definitly be my hero then.
00:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> now that is a huge project ;)
00:37:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> but afaik, some of the ludmillas were built for 140km/h
00:48:00 <SpComb> hmm... it seems that SO_BROADCAST doesn't get set on the server's UDP socket? How does it receive the LAN server-queries?
00:56:45 <SpComb> I mean, does the LAN-server-discovery thing work in the stable versions?
00:58:14 <SpComb> hmm, it does, in 0.5.2
01:04:19 <Gonozal_VIII> such a long distance without signals...
01:05:09 <fjb> Why should there be any signals?
01:05:22 <Gonozal_VIII> for lots and lots and lots of trains
01:06:16 <fjb> I'm just making the trains longer.
01:06:53 <fjb> Then your trains are still too short.
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01:07:42 <fjb> One signal every twenty tiles is enough.
01:08:01 <Gonozal_VIII> that means twenty tiles distance between the trains
01:08:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have signal distance around the train length
01:11:07 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: How many thousand tonnes do your industries generate?
01:11:33 <Gonozal_VIII> lots of industries use the same line
01:13:26 <fjb> The industries are randomly scattered around the whole map in my games. Using the same line for many industries is prefered, but often not possible.
01:14:14 <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes i have a feeder system with small lines dropping stuff at a hub
01:15:04 <fjb> That is ok when everything has the same destination.
01:16:24 <Gonozal_VIII> even with different destinations
01:16:46 <Gonozal_VIII> just let some more small vehicles pick it up from a second hub
01:16:49 <fjb> That can be really inefficient.
01:17:35 <Gonozal_VIII> maximum profit is with direct point to point connections... but that's boring
01:18:31 <fjb> Yes, that is boring. But the feeder system have to be in balance. Putting everything on the same line isn't the best idea.
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01:20:57 <Gonozal_VIII> if you have for example 3 power plants that want coal (station A, B and C) and the dropoff hub D, you can use vehicle orders like that: D, A, D, B, D, C
01:21:31 <Gonozal_VIII> balances just fine then
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01:22:21 <fjb> Yes, but that is only useful if the power plants are located in the same area of the map.
01:25:01 <SpComb> right, seems I had some other irrelevant bug that I somehow managed to fix, it works now
01:25:19 <fjb> Self fixing bugs are the best.
01:27:12 <Gonozal_VIII> of course same area of the map, the hub is only for that area :-)
01:28:55 <fjb> But I usually find the power plants at very different parts of the map. I'm usually playing randomly generated maps.
01:29:17 <Gonozal_VIII> but there are a lot of industries, even with very low
01:31:32 <fjb> Yes, but at least the ECS industries tend to die very quick.
01:32:14 <Gonozal_VIII> would be better to start with less and have more appearing instead
01:32:22 <fjb> So there are very fast very few industies.
01:33:47 <fjb> Maybe we could implement a setting that influences the random generation of new industries.
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01:34:56 <Gonozal_VIII> would be nice... and also better settings for the number of industries at the beginning
01:36:56 <fjb> Yes. The next Gonozal patch project. :-)
01:37:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> <fjb> Yes, but that is only useful if the power plants are located in the same area of the map. <- power plants should be one per city, and required for growth beyond a certain size, similar to water towers in desert
01:37:59 <Gonozal_VIII> there's the whole city growth ruleset thingy somewhere
01:38:26 <fjb> But I fear it gets voted against for being to realistic and making the game to hard to play for most people.
01:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> why hard? you can play perfectly fine with towns < 2000 people
01:40:31 <fjb> I can. But look into the different forums where people are complaining that TTD is hard to play.
01:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> town growth should depend on power and goods supply
01:40:52 <Fujitsu> I'd welcome changes to make it less trivial.
01:41:35 <fjb> I have seen people run out of money in a flat tropic world.
01:42:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> like without food up to 2000, without goods and power up to 5000 or something
01:42:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> and then more or less linearly with amount of power generated
01:42:35 <fjb> With breakdowns disabled ofcourse, else it would have been unplayable for them.
01:43:15 <Gonozal_VIII> advanced tab for the difficulty settings :-)
01:43:23 <fjb> How is the town growth working right now? I have to look at the source.
01:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> basically based on the amount of stations serviced
01:44:10 * Fujitsu hasn't poked around that part of the source.
01:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> which is stupid, because one big station is counted less than 5 bus stops
01:44:45 <fjb> 5 bus stops is a sure way to grow a town out of bounds right now.
01:45:01 <fjb> But what does a town do when it decides to grow?
01:45:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> it walks from the center tile along the roads until it hits a free spot, then tries to build a house or a road there
01:45:54 <fjb> Could a town grf implement the requirement for goods?
01:46:19 <fjb> But it sometimes trashes houses to build bigger ones.
01:47:12 <fjb> What happens if the grf denies every possible building?
01:47:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have a station that was once inmidst of houses at the rim of the city, now most houses around that station are gone
01:48:06 <fjb> What kind of station is that? :-)
01:48:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think it has anything to do with the station ;)
01:49:23 <fjb> Does delivery of goods trigger any event? A callback in the town grf?
01:54:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm afraid you'll have to look that up on your own
02:08:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd take that as a no ;)
02:08:59 <Gonozal_VIII> i'd take that as a yes, but won't answer n00b questions right now
02:16:52 <fjb> I should be sleeping anyway.
03:02:42 <UFO64> Anyone know of some good diagrams for some station load balancing?
03:02:59 <Gonozal_VIII> pathfinder does that on its own
03:04:37 <UFO64> Yeah, but my current set up keeps ending up with a secondary bottleneck, and trying to eliminate that seems to end up in jams. I get the feeling I can single this way better, but my atemps seem to be getting worse rather then better
03:06:08 <Gonozal_VIII> there's also a difference if it's a loading or unloading station, unloading stations work best without any presignals
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03:15:21 <Gonozal_VIII> bah, jpg, awful quality
03:15:30 <Gonozal_VIII> what kind of signals are that?
03:15:56 <UFO64> Well, picasa felt like being agry with png, and i didn't feel like registering to a more usefull service, so it worked
03:16:01 <Gonozal_VIII> should work fine with pbs
03:16:18 <UFO64> PBS, I have heard about it, but not read a lot into it
03:16:26 <UFO64> Path Based Signals, right?
03:16:47 <Gonozal_VIII> don't let all lines cross
03:16:58 <Gonozal_VIII> they are all blocked if a train is on one of them
03:18:21 <UFO64> Isn't the point of load balancing the extrence to a station to spread the trains across the entrences?
03:18:39 <Gonozal_VIII> but not without signals between the lines
03:19:26 <Gonozal_VIII> three lines connected that way have the same capacity as one single line
03:20:18 <UFO64> The only way my current set up has any advantage is if the 5 stations are full and trains are waiting at the presignals to enter
03:20:38 <UFO64> Then they can Que up in those bays, but beyond that, your corrent. Its almost like there is just one
03:21:45 <Gonozal_VIII> you can leave more space between the lines and place signals on the connections
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03:32:02 <Tefad> needs a bit of practice, but he's a cool guy : D
03:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> UFO64: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transport,%204.%20Jun%201965.png <- an old station of mine with separated entrances
03:42:00 <Gonozal_VIII> one of your escher stations again^^
03:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> man, 3 tile stations look much tinier than 10 years ago...
03:45:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> that was the first situation when i said "i could reall use flexible brige ramps here"
03:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think that was my first openttd game
03:46:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> that was long before i ever came here
03:46:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't remember which version it was, though
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03:48:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> i wouldn't ever build like that anymore
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05:12:02 <UFO64> I'm gonna keep working at it. I'd like to ha ve a better queing system overall for it. Allowing every train to each every loading area while being able to load them at the same time
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09:23:26 <zeroc> All greetings I from Russia!!! I here first time)) wish to find the girl to myself from other country))
09:23:26 <zeroc> Badly I do not know your language translate through the program
09:24:23 <zeroc> Why everyone are silent
09:25:39 <zeroc> Why everyone are silent Why everyone are silent
09:26:02 <ln-> you only arrived 2 minutes ago.
09:26:26 <zeroc> The coding should be replaced to me yes??
09:28:11 <peter1138> Even then, not many of us here will understand it ;)
09:28:35 <zeroc> I from Russia let's talk
09:28:45 <zeroc> ln- You are class Russian knows??
09:29:12 <peter1138> Do you... wish to find the girl to yourself from other country, or wish to talk about TTD-related subjects?
09:30:32 <ln-> or find a TTD-playing girl here?
09:30:45 <zeroc> I rich also search to myself for the wife not from Russia to me 20 years
09:30:58 <ln-> this can get entertaining...
09:31:35 <zeroc> I to you are clear? The coding normal I through the program translate
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09:36:24 <Morloth> Good morning everyone :)
09:38:41 <ln-> zeroc: do you know what is OpenTTD?
09:40:39 <peter1138> 'is' goes after 'OpenTTD'
09:45:37 <mikl> Syntax error, unexpected noun 'OpenTTD' in line 1 ;)
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10:21:20 <Morloth> Is there btw an easy way to replace, say, all vehicles older then 13 years? I now have to find them all by hand and replace then manually, there must be a better way right?
10:28:21 <Ammler> morning all, is beta new name for monthly? ;-)
10:39:09 <SmatZ> hello Ammler :) it is a coincidence ;)
10:39:28 <SmatZ> wow, 3 months since beta1
10:39:39 <Ammler> yeah, every month one more
10:40:51 <Ammler> what is the main missing feature for final?
10:41:15 <Ammler> or rivers for running game?
10:41:47 <SmatZ> plane speed for sure, and bug fixes
10:43:14 <Ammler> well bug fixes could also be made with RCs
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10:44:16 <peter1138> plane speed indeed...
10:44:44 <peter1138> Are only available in the scenario editor...
10:45:01 <Ammler> but that will change, or is that wanted that way?
10:45:24 <Gonozal_VIII> nobody coded automatic river generation yet
10:45:44 <Gonozal_VIII> but i don't think they should be buildable by players...
10:45:56 <SmatZ> you can build locks and canals...
10:46:25 <Gonozal_VIII> that's what people do... but nobody builds rivers...
10:47:09 <peter1138> Ideally rivers should created automatically and be immutable, but that makes no sense when you can raise and flatten mountains...
10:47:22 * SmatZ thinks should be non-bulldozable
10:51:09 <Noldo> just make springs and floodfill from there :)
10:53:54 <Ammler> its no problem to switch so scenario editor in single player mode
10:54:57 <Gonozal_VIII> look in the wiki for lively rivers
10:54:58 <Ammler> I think. it doesn't hurt, if you can build rivers in running mode
10:55:57 <Noldo> are the river tiles just like canal tiles but different graphics?
10:58:28 <Gonozal_VIII> sloped tiles can't be passed by ships
11:00:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12188 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange [FS#1782]: do not check twice for correct rail owner (patch by Vikthor)
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11:08:44 <SpComb> the server just gets listed twice because it gets both the IPv4 and IPv6 broadcast reply
11:08:47 <peter1138> we need to change the network protocol to handle ipv4 & ipv6 together :o
11:08:53 <SpComb> yeah, the masterserver's next
11:09:22 <SpComb> well, specifically, after lunch and four hours of lectures, for I must remember that I need to study as well :<
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11:09:53 <DJGummikuh> -Fix: Enable YAPF to start searching inside a wormhole [FS#1704] (r12056)
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11:10:21 <SpComb> linux, ubuntu 7.10, amd64
11:10:45 <peter1138> Then what's the theme? ;)
11:11:03 <DJGummikuh> what is a "wormhole" in your terminology?
11:11:21 <Gonozal_VIII> tunnels and bridges
11:11:43 <DJGummikuh> I just wondered what cool extensions yo were planning for openttd ^^
11:11:51 <DJGummikuh> Stargates and such :))
11:12:21 <keyweed> teleporters would take the fun out of it, i think
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11:12:54 <DJGummikuh> keyweed: it's all a matter of implementation :) I would love to teleport some players on my server to another world or dimension :)
11:13:38 <SmatZ> DJGummikuh: you can use "kick"
11:13:49 <DJGummikuh> now where's the fun in that? :)
11:14:19 <SmatZ> you will teleport them out of your server
11:14:28 <DJGummikuh> yeah and onto someone's else
11:14:30 <peter1138> SpComb, hmm, hardy doesn't seem to support that very well :(
11:15:04 <SpComb> I need to change it or something, though, because compiz doesn't support dual monitors very well
11:15:22 <SpComb> no windowsnap on the monitor boundary, and maximzed windows span both monitors, which is very annoying
11:15:33 <SpComb> particularly with websites that insist on resizing your browser window
11:15:44 <peter1138> Seems to work for me, using nvidia's implementation...
11:15:58 <keyweed> kill the webdesigners. websites should never resize browsers.
11:16:04 <SpComb> windowsnap on monitor edges with compiz?
11:16:32 <SpComb> hmm... need to look into that then
11:17:21 <peter1138> My panel's don't work :(
11:17:36 * Fujitsu puts on his Ubuntu dev hat.
11:17:48 <Fujitsu> peter1138: Do you have panels at all?
11:19:20 <peter1138> Ok, it's emerald doing that
11:28:34 * SpComb wonder how many people who play OpenTTD have IPv6 connectivity
11:30:41 <SpComb> well, they don't even hazve IPv4 connectivity ^^
11:38:07 <peter1138> I did, but then BT stopped their tunnel service :o
11:41:01 <SpComb> what kind of tunnel was it?
11:47:21 <peter1138> A regular IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel...
11:48:48 <SpComb> there's several different kinds
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12:07:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12189 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: mark some functions in train_cmd.cpp inline (called once or very short)
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12:31:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12190 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_base.hpp: -Fix [FS#1786](r8080): YAPF always shows 0ms PF time in debug for debug level 2 (patch by IguannaB)
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13:43:05 <brazuca> i trying to create my own server dedicated but im struggling
13:45:23 <brazuca> anyone could help me?
13:45:48 <Morloth> I've never done such a thing before, I'm sorry
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13:54:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Morloth> Is there btw an easy way to replace, say, all vehicles older then 13 years? I now have to find them all by hand and replace then manually, there must be a better way right? <- you can move these vehicles to a vehiclegroup, and then autoreplace only in that group
14:02:06 <Morloth> Eddi|zuHause3: K, thanks. I'll try that :)
14:08:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12191 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Do not start overtaking if the RV reaches wrong-way one-way-road in the next tiles.
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14:26:03 <debian__> How can I move something from an train to an ship?
14:26:57 <glx> with joined dock and station
14:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> "transfer and unload"
14:29:08 <Gonozal_VIII> unload alone is enough if the station doesn't accept that stuff
14:29:34 <Gonozal_VIII> but using transfer is safer, if a new industry happens to pop up right there...
14:30:04 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: transfer is needed if you don't want to lose money
14:30:30 <Gonozal_VIII> really? but the result looks the same with unload
14:31:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12192 /trunk/src/ (core/math_func.hpp newgrf_town.cpp): -Fix: clamp various town variables to 16bit prior to returning the value
14:31:41 <glx> yes, but the unloader vehicle is always in red
14:32:10 <glx> and that's bad for the score
14:32:28 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't care about score^^
14:35:11 <Belugas> m2 for bridges is already in part used...
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14:39:17 <Morloth> Does someone knows how the running costs are calculated internly?
14:39:39 <Morloth> I have no idea what Vehicle.GetRunningCost() returns
14:40:08 <Morloth> I see the actual cost is calculated by dont a 8 bit shifts !?
14:40:55 <Gonozal_VIII> that's not the calculation, that's some strange bitmagic
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14:42:03 <Morloth> Money GetDisplayRunningCost() const { return (this->GetRunningCost() >> 8); << Don't think so ;)
14:42:28 <Gonozal_VIII> look at getrunningcost :P
14:42:29 <brazuca> could any of you guys do me a favor
14:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> Morloth: replace these shifts by multiplications/divisions
14:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> >> 8 is the same as /256
14:42:51 <Morloth> Eddi|zuHause3: I know how bitshifts work :)
14:42:57 <glx> and it's just for display
14:43:07 <Morloth> Eddi|zuHause3: I just wonder how I can calculate the running cost per year for a vehicle
14:43:13 <brazuca> could you check if !![HARDCORE].BRAZUCA is in the server list
14:43:28 <glx> brazuca: servers.openttd.org
14:43:42 <glx> if you see it there, it's ok
14:45:37 <Morloth> Balogh Armored Truck Running cost: 108090 and max age: 5490 << I get these values. max age is OK it's calculated in years. But the I can't trace back the value 108090. The running cost / year is displayed as: 844
14:45:52 <Belugas> a good question for anyone playing MP : on a 2048*2048 map, at game's end, how many bridges, any bridges, do tyou think there should be, at the most
14:46:08 <Morloth> But I don't see the *2 anywhere in the code ?
14:46:41 <SmatZ> Morloth: do you use Pounds?
14:47:37 <Morloth> Don't tell me all values are mulitplied by 2 if you use pounds? :)
14:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> Belugas: bridge usage should increase if flexible bridges are introduced
14:48:05 <Belugas> not the answer i wanted to hear
14:48:08 <Morloth> Oh, in fact I use Euros
14:48:12 <SmatZ> Morloth: Pounds are the base - if you use Euros, you will have prices multiplied by two
14:48:51 <Belugas> a few thousands... that's the best estimate so far
14:49:17 <Morloth> I had something similar with speeds, but I guess that's the same convertion problem miles <-> km ?
14:49:31 <debian__> Autorenew failed on train 13(money limit), why?
14:49:42 <Gonozal_VIII> what do you think?
14:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> on my practically empty 2kx1k map, i estimate around 200 existing bridges
14:50:51 <SmatZ> Morloth: probably :) but maybe the base for RVs is multiplied by 2 ... or so... I don't know
14:51:02 <Gonozal_VIII> what you should think is that the autorenew failed because of the money limit ;-)
14:51:13 <Belugas> where is dihedral when you need him :S
14:51:29 <Belugas> Any server admins in here??
14:51:50 <Gonozal_VIII> coop guys are extreme.. look at one of their finished maps
14:52:37 <Belugas> Gonozal_VIII, yuo're familiar with them?
14:52:58 <Gonozal_VIII> looked at one of them some time ago
14:53:33 <Gonozal_VIII> anyways.. limits are bad
14:53:35 <Belugas> answer is thus "no" :)
14:54:06 <Belugas> limits are bad, true. but no-limit stuff has a price to pay too
14:54:24 <Belugas> so, it is a matter of balancing the pros and the cons to come up to a good compromise
14:54:42 <Gonozal_VIII> allocate the same size again when the first is full :-)
14:54:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> 640k ought to be enough for anyone?
14:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> or why not specify the limit in the .cfg, like for vehicles?
14:56:27 <glx> .cfg is the soft limit, there are still a hard limit for vehicles
14:57:02 <DJ-Nekkid> Belugas: u might wanna check out opencoop game #80 ... that were a 1k^2 map...
14:57:13 <DJ-Nekkid> count them and multiply by 4 or 5 :)
14:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> then i vote for a limit like 64k
14:58:09 <Belugas> spot me one with the most bridges on it, if you can
14:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> afaik it's the same as for the vehicles
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14:58:46 <SpComb> shared/network/core/udp.o: In function `NetworkUDPSocketHandler::Recv_NetworkGameInfo(Packet*, NetworkGameInfo*)':
14:58:49 <SpComb> udp.cpp:(.text+0x6d3): undefined reference to `MallocError(unsigned long)'
14:58:49 <DJ-Nekkid> not sure if that one has the most bridges, but it's the largest opencoop game so far afaik
14:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> my bridges usually appear in pairs
14:58:51 <SpComb> it's broken! It doesn't work!
14:58:57 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause3, that's the point of my query. I want tio be sure 64k will be enough
14:59:05 <debian__> Gonozal_VIII: What money limit? And in beta 4 the popups that tell ho. much an train have lost is wrong.
14:59:17 <SpComb> and that's the unmodified svn://svn.openttd.org/extras/masterserver_updater/ source
14:59:46 <Gonozal_VIII> oh... so those wrong profit messages are not the fault of my patchpack
15:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, i can't see me reaching that limit, but i don't play MP
15:00:19 <DJ-Nekkid> Belugas: 64000 bridges?
15:00:47 <Gonozal_VIII> you should take some time to read and test all the patch settings debian
15:01:10 <peter1138> Belugas, you can always divide that into map areas...
15:01:16 <DJ-Nekkid> unless u make HUGE maps available (16kx16k or even bigger) any time soon that should be sufficient...
15:01:59 <Gonozal_VIII> if you want to be on the safe side... 2^21 is the absolute limit
15:02:21 <debian__> How many can play an mulitplayer game?
15:02:33 <Gonozal_VIII> that's a 2'2k map completely covered in minimum size bridges
15:03:09 <DJ-Nekkid> debian__: 11 (or is that 12) atm, a patch have made it to 55 (or prolly 55 and 8 spectators plus the server)
15:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> SpComb: afaik it links to some code from the openttd source, have you included that?
15:03:32 <glx> SpComb: oh it's the same error we had with strgen
15:03:34 <SpComb> well, the externals, yes
15:03:54 <SpComb> MallocError is in src/core/alloc_func.{h,c}pp
15:04:20 <SpComb> but there's no core anything in objs/release/shared/
15:04:59 <glx> but source.list may need updating :)
15:05:35 <SpComb> indeed, source.list doesn't include the core dir
15:05:57 <glx> shared/network/core/core.cpp
15:05:58 <glx> shared/network/core/packet.cpp
15:05:58 <glx> shared/network/core/udp.cpp
15:06:06 <glx> it does but only for some files
15:06:09 * SmatZ is sure he put core/alloc_func.cpp into source.list
15:06:22 <debian__> DJ-Nekkid: Where do I find that patch? Do I need an induvidual server?
15:06:35 <SpComb> added them in and it works
15:07:38 <glx> thanks (I can't compile it, don't have mysql dev stuff)
15:08:05 <Belugas> 741K ? There musst be something wrong...
15:09:48 <glx> SpComb: only alloc_func.cpp is needed I think
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15:13:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12193 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Rename a magic variable, give it a decent type, and remove a 'goto'.
15:14:37 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
15:15:17 <glx> SpComb: can you try with only alloc_func.cpp ?
15:18:08 <Morloth> Hmmz... I think there is an error in AIEngine->GetMaxSpeed. For trains it gives the correct values, for boats and vehicles the double value and for aircraft it's 2 km/h off the mark...
15:18:30 *** Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
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15:18:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12194 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: apply coding style on enum TrainSubtype
15:19:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> debian__: you do not want that patch
15:21:43 <debian__> Eddi|zuHause3: Why not?
15:22:02 <debian__> I'm going to an lan, so I need to be able to play with a lot of people...
15:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> the limit is 11 players in 8 companies, you'll have to live with that
15:28:29 <Morloth> Can someone explain these differences?
15:28:37 <Morloth> aircraft.h: int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->max_speed * 10 / 16; }
15:28:43 <Morloth> roadveh.h: int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->max_speed * 10 / 32; }
15:28:48 <Morloth> ship.h: int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->max_speed * 10 / 32; }
15:28:54 <Morloth> train.h: int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->u.rail.cached_max_speed * 10 / 16; }
15:29:41 <Morloth> If I call AIEngine.GetMaxSpeed, I have to devide the value by 2 for road vehicles and ships. Think it's related to these calculations
15:30:12 <Morloth> I can understand that 10 / 16 is the transformation from km -> miles, but I don't understand what's up with 10 / 32
15:30:47 <debian__> Eddi|zuHause3: So some players have to be in the same companies?
15:31:21 <glx> Morloth: internal speed don't use the same scale for all vehicle types
15:34:06 <Morloth> ok, in that case there is an error in AIEngine
15:34:26 * Morloth puts his white gloves on and goes fixing :)
15:39:34 <glx> just show the diff here :)
15:39:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> arithmetic operators are left associative
15:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> so 1/16*2 is wrong
15:40:53 <Morloth> Eddi|zuHause3: I corrected myself! :P
15:42:48 <Gonozal_VIII> no the other fjb
15:43:04 <Ammler> yeah, you seems a little bit experienced with using ECS
15:43:20 <Ammler> I am packing a new coop pack
15:43:40 <Ammler> what do I need to know about ECS, about orders to other GRFs
15:43:55 <Morloth> diff -x .svn -r /home/bram/src_now/ai/api/ai_engine.cpp src/ai/api/ai_engine.cpp
15:43:56 <Morloth> < return vi->max_speed;
15:43:56 <Morloth> > return vi->max_speed / 2; // Internal speed representation is in km/h * 2
15:43:56 <Ammler> I know, that ECS self needs to be like the IDs
15:43:57 <Morloth> < return vi->max_speed;
15:43:59 <Morloth> > return vi->max_speed / 2; // Internal speed representation is in km/h * 2
15:44:09 <Ammler> Morloth: paste.openttd.org
15:44:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> Morloth: pa... what he said
15:44:21 <fjb> Put the ECS grfs first, every other grf later. Put them before any town or vehicle grf.
15:44:49 <Ammler> but after landscape or doesn't that matter?
15:45:06 <fjb> And order the ECS grfs according their grf id. But I guess you knew that.
15:45:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> Morloth: try "diff -u"
15:45:21 <fjb> Landscape doesn't matter.
15:45:43 <Ammler> ok, we have it after TTRS now, I need to fix that
15:45:51 <glx> Morloth: or just svn diff ;)
15:46:17 <fjb> TTRS will lose the tourists when it is before the ECS grfs.
15:46:33 <Ammler> fjb: no, TTRS is after, but the infrastructure GRF are before
15:46:54 <Ammler> I sorted the GRFs like GRFCrawler Categories
15:46:56 <Morloth> glx: Problem is that I have written several lines of code and try maintain like 3 different 'branches': The main branch, the branch with patches not yet in the main branch, and an other working copy :P
15:47:25 <fjb> That is or. Landscape -> ECS -> TTRS -> Vehicles
15:47:29 <glx> Morloth: try using git or mercurial for your local developpement ;)
15:47:48 <Morloth> glx: Yeah... was thinking about something like that ;)
15:47:53 <Gonozal_VIII> action a stuff can be placed anywhere
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15:48:07 <Morloth> glx: or you could give me svn access ;)
15:48:20 <fjb> ECS has to be loaded before any other grfs that deals with new cargos. Stations also have to be loaded after ECS.
15:48:29 <Ammler> fjb: landscape - infrstructure - industries - buildings- stations -vehicles
15:49:06 <Ammler> I don't need to change it then
15:49:41 <fjb> Newbridges should go after TTRS if you want to use them. And TTRS bridges have to be disabled then. Newbridges with parameter 2 gives TTRS road compatible bridges.
15:50:24 <Ammler> hmm, are you sure, I had problems with using newbridges after roadsets
15:50:36 <fjb> It you are using TTRS streets and DBset XL you should disable the road crossings of DBset XL.
15:51:32 <fjb> Enable the TTRS roads, but disable TTRS bridges. Load Newbridges after it and use parameter 2.
15:51:50 <peter1138> Yeah, DBSetXL has loads of options
15:52:08 <fjb> But they are easy to understand.
15:52:20 <Ammler> you can enable TTRS and bridges separate?
15:52:38 <Ammler> TTRS streets and bridges I meant..
15:52:41 <fjb> TTRS road and bridges are separate.
15:53:29 <peter1138> Morloth, btw, internal representation is not km/h
15:53:48 <peter1138> As mph/km/h is 1.609, not 1.6...
15:54:19 <Morloth> peter1138: I know, but I think the internal calculations are simplified
15:54:29 <peter1138> The TTDPatch people were pedantic enough to insist that it is not 1.6 :o
15:54:34 <Gonozal_VIII> the grf defines km/h, so km/h are right but mph are wrong
15:54:44 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, no, grf does not define km/h
15:55:10 <peter1138> Train speed is in units of mph*1.6, i.e. approximately km/h.
15:55:21 <peter1138> approximately... the specification states it is mph*1.6..
15:55:22 <SpComb> network/core/core.h defines an enum with the same name that network/network_data.h typedefs to
15:55:49 <Gonozal_VIII> it's exactly km/h and the mph are wrong! because i say so!
15:55:58 <Morloth> I think Gonozal_VIII is right
15:56:05 <DaleStan> No, it's mph*1.56. Which is not kph.
15:56:14 <DaleStan> Erm... No, it's mph*1.6. Which is not kph.
15:56:19 <Morloth> the value of *VehInfo->max_sped is in km/h
15:56:34 <Ammler> fjb: you should somewhere write down your experience with GRFs
15:56:55 <Gonozal_VIII> but grf authors want it to be km/h
15:57:26 <Ammler> there are readmes for every single grf, but nothing for how to combine them
15:57:26 <DaleStan> No, they don't. They want it to be what it has been for years before OpenTTD was ever released.
15:57:29 <Morloth> If I compare the output of *VehInfo->max_speed with what I see on my screen in the vehicle info dialog it shows the same values in km/h
15:57:57 <fjb> Ok, I'm back in about half an hour.
15:58:03 <peter1138> Morloth, not for high values it doesn't
15:58:08 <Gonozal_VIII> then mb wants his transrapid to have 502 km/h top speed?
15:58:39 <Morloth> peter1138: I noticed, the value for airplanes is 2 km/h off the mark as I remarked ^^
15:58:50 <Gonozal_VIII> and lots of other vehicles that are slightly above rl values...
16:00:51 <Morloth> peter1138: But it could be that internally the value is translated from km/h -> mhp by * 10 / 16. And if the value needs to displayed in screen it is again translated but this time by the correct value from mph -> km/h
16:01:24 <Morloth> But that would be very messy programming =)
16:01:41 <Gonozal_VIII> it's integer calculation, lots of rounding involved
16:04:55 <DaleStan> If 502 is what MB coded, then 502 is what MB wanted. If he wanted 500, he could reduce the property by 2.
16:05:30 <Gonozal_VIII> some km/h values can't be reached
16:05:36 <DaleStan> Or maybe 3; there's got to be a few locations where an increase of one does not change the displayed speed.
16:06:50 <Gonozal_VIII> and it's 2, i changed it some time ago
16:07:11 <Gonozal_VIII> i think it was 200
16:07:24 <DaleStan> Oh, wait. Nevermind. that is the way it goes.
16:07:30 <Gonozal_VIII> goes directly from 199 to 201
16:07:50 <Gonozal_VIII> or something like that
16:07:57 <Gonozal_VIII> it was a multiple of 10
16:08:55 <peter1138> well, you are actually wrong. it was changed to be km/h internally once, but there were a load of complaints from grf authors so it was changed back...
16:10:24 <peter1138> can't remember off hand
16:10:31 <Gonozal_VIII> anyways... if they want to have mph, then why is it mph * 1,6?
16:10:40 <peter1138> and no doubt one of the complainants was DaleStan :D
16:11:27 <DaleStan> I don't think I said much. I do remember Pikka complaining that his trains were suddenly going the wrong speeds.
16:12:57 <Gonozal_VIII> mph or km/h would make sense... but a strange unit like mph*1,6?
16:15:24 <DaleStan> Because that is what the docs say. I seriously doubt patchman invented a new unit just to mess with us; I expect that's TTD
16:15:50 <DaleStan> 's internal value. (Maybe CS got lazy?)
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16:16:27 <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. from ttd... didn't think of that
16:23:36 <Morloth> Date is such a tricky problem as well ;)
16:23:51 <Morloth> Some classes think a year has 366 days, others 365 :)
16:24:09 <Gonozal_VIII> 364 for running cost :-)
16:25:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12195 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1787](r12100): there can be oil rigs at map borders, do not set water class for them
16:26:17 <SmatZ> I suppose it is because of rounding
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16:27:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12196 /extra/masterserver_updater/source.list: [MSU] -Fix: compilation due to some changes in trunk
16:28:09 *** Rexxars has joined #openttd
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16:56:50 <yorick> are you rewriting the master server or something?
16:57:15 *** Frostregen_ has joined #openttd
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17:02:55 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
17:07:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12197 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs):
17:07:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1788](r12134): show correct last year profit when the train had negative income
17:07:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: use GetDisplayProfitThisYear() to convert vehicle profit to readable form
17:09:52 *** Morloth is now known as Morloth|Dancing
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17:12:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12198 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1789]: "Transparent buildings" now only toggles buildings, so show tick when buildings are transparent.
17:13:37 <frosch123> bugs have a very short life today
17:18:33 <SpComb> yorick: adding IPv6 support
17:18:48 <SpComb> hmm, MasterServer::GetServerListPacket's max_count doesn't seem to take the version byte into account
17:20:23 <nzvip> Anyone in here knows anything about threads?
17:21:29 <saati> you sew thing from them
17:21:39 <frosch123> general-, delphi- and java- thingies: yes
17:21:52 * frosch123 never used them in C
17:21:58 <nzvip> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
17:21:58 <nzvip> [Switching to Thread -1209721968 (LWP 10765)]
17:21:58 <nzvip> 0xb7fa4550 in pthread_mutex_lock () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libpthread.so.0
17:22:00 <saati> that depends on the platform
17:22:02 <nzvip> This error makes no sense to me!
17:22:14 <nzvip> Why will it segfault at mutex_lock()?
17:22:55 <frosch123> Do you have to allocate a mutex-class, -handle or something like that?
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17:41:57 *** yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
17:50:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12199 /trunk/src/ (30 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Remove magic around the results of GetTileTrackStatus().
17:56:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12200 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix: force AI to build rail or road instead of bridges if possible, so it doesn't build bridges everywhere
17:57:38 <Belugas> SmatZ to the rescue of poor simple minded AI :D
17:58:20 <Belugas> and Frostregen doing high intelligence exercises on trackbit stuff!
17:58:58 <SmatZ> yeah, it was really nice cleanup
18:01:16 <debian__> How do I bould aeroplanes?
18:01:32 <Gonozal_VIII> you already asked for trains and ships :P
18:01:40 <Gonozal_VIII> figure that one out on your own
18:02:01 <debian__> But witch one is the bombing plane?
18:02:23 <debian__> My friend bombed my railroad
18:03:16 <debian__> Gonozal_VIII: How to bomb him back?
18:03:55 <Gonozal_VIII> sorry, couldn't type, laughing...
18:04:29 <debian__> And why did I get payd for it?
18:04:36 <Gonozal_VIII> an ufo has landed on your rails, random disaster
18:04:56 <Gonozal_VIII> you got money for that?
18:05:11 <debian__> Gonozal_VIII: Yes, and my railroad houses also dissapeared...
18:05:45 * LordAzamath wants to bomb his opponents' rail as often as possible
18:06:19 <debian__> I got payd for the railroad, not the houses...
18:07:06 *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
18:07:09 <Prof_Frink> debian__: Do you have a password on your company?
18:07:23 <LordAzamath> check players list
18:07:34 <Gonozal_VIII> guy with black hat
18:07:54 <LordAzamath> hold down the company manager button.. The first menu item
18:07:54 <debian__> No more than us now...
18:14:48 <debian__> How does shares work?
18:15:07 <debian__> Can I own the other company? Would my friend loose control of it then?
18:16:11 <debian__> No I cant own it, or no he wont loose control?
18:16:53 <ln-> "lose" is spelled with one o.
18:17:31 <globester> unless it's loose controll
18:19:26 <Belugas> # Ground Control to Major Tom
18:20:09 <Gonozal_VIII> take your protein pills and put your helmet on
18:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you have loose control, you better fix it
18:23:35 *** LordAzamath has left #openttd
18:23:54 <peter1138> # it's been a long long time
18:24:36 <Gonozal_VIII> what's up with that # stuff?
18:24:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> # vööööllliiiig schweeherelooos
18:25:50 <peter1138> # i know a farmer who looks after the farm
18:26:02 <peter1138> # with water here he cares for his harvest
18:28:56 <peter1138> # and they're giving me a wonderful potion
18:29:09 <peter1138> # cos i cannot contain my emotion
18:30:23 * Belugas cries... it's not available on my system :(
18:30:23 <Prof_Frink> I cannot contain my emoticon.
18:30:26 <debian__> I want to win this game, what is hidden in the source code?
18:30:42 <Prof_Frink> The secret of eternal youth.
18:30:47 <Gonozal_VIII> the hidden secret is that you can't win
18:31:45 <peter1138> Belugas, can you youtube?
18:31:46 <Gonozal_VIII> no matter what you do and how long you play, there's always more to do
18:32:39 <Belugas> "they" kinda forbide it, and "kinda" disabled it :S
18:33:07 <Gonozal_VIII> "they" again! it's always "them"!
18:34:28 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: A block shouldn't stop someone 1337 like you
18:34:52 * Belugas knows not much on network wizardy
18:35:06 <Belugas> eitherway, i've got some Mogwai going on
18:35:20 <Belugas> so.. it's better than nothing ;)
18:35:35 <Gonozal_VIII> oh noes! don't get water on them or feed them after midnight!
18:36:19 <Belugas> at midnight, my headset willnot play
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18:55:52 <SpComb> a dual-stack IPv6 server supports IPv4 and IPv6, so what do you stick into the master server?
18:56:32 <SpComb> trying to stick both, but there's something weird about it sending the packet over IPv6 even though I have an IPv4 socket bound to an IPv4 adddress and sent to an IPv4 address
18:57:16 <peter1138> hmm, an IPv6 socket should still be reachable via IPv4...
18:57:49 <peter1138> well it works for :::22 ;)
19:03:39 <SpComb> indeed, but I didn't think the kernel would be able to automatically convert 192.168.1.1 to 2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9
19:05:21 <Yorick> hmm...I get my livebox configuration screen if I go to master-int.meta.myottd.net
19:06:46 <Yorick> it resolves to 192.168.1.1
19:10:18 <Yorick> should it resolve to 192.168.1.1 publicly?
19:11:04 <peter1138> well it's only a test environment
19:11:11 <peter1138> you'll need your own master server
19:13:33 *** mad_ is now known as farnsworth
19:13:53 *** farnsworth is now known as mad_
19:14:44 <NukeBuster> Peter1138, what kind of build system does openttd use?
19:14:48 <SpComb> the IPv6 one should work though
19:15:05 <Sacro> it resolvse to .1.1 here
19:15:22 <debian__> I want an train to bring and take stuff, how?
19:16:53 <SpComb> and now it doesn't resolve at all
19:17:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> debian__: won't work with transfer
19:17:27 <SpComb> and yeah, I figured out what was wrong... it was 192.168.1.1, not 192.168.1.10 >_<
19:17:43 <SpComb> so it was sending the UDP packet to my router, and I'd just miscounted the IPv6 retries
19:17:46 <SpComb> spent two hours on that...
19:18:54 <Yorick> "Bezig met het traceren van de route naar master-int.meta.myottd.net [192.168.1.1]"
19:21:18 <peter1138> NukeBuster, build system? Depends where it's being compiled...
19:21:53 <NukeBuster> If I compiled it in a linux environment?
19:21:58 <peter1138> VS8 project, VS9 project, or makefile ...
19:22:34 <peter1138> they have lyrics? :o
19:22:53 <Belugas> i THINK this is icelandic
19:23:22 <Belugas> hopelandic, lost hope...
19:25:37 <peter1138> NukeBuster, so what's the question?
19:27:22 <NukeBuster> well I'm trying out the GNU buildsystem, with autoconf and automake... but while doing that I was wondering what openttd uses
19:28:01 <NukeBuster> (to get your configure script and makefile updated)
19:28:15 <Prof_Frink> How was it that arstechnica described autoconf/automake?
19:28:19 <Yorick> the configure script updates the makefile
19:29:08 <NukeBuster> Yorick, but the configure scripts has to be made from something.... or do you type the whole thing yourself?
19:30:05 <NukeBuster> with autoconf, autoconf generates a configure script
19:30:13 <NukeBuster> but it's quite a hassle...
19:30:17 <Prof_Frink> "KDE's build system was previously based on Autotools, an intractably arcane and grotesquely anachronistic cesspool of ineffable complexity that makes even seasoned programmers nauseous."
19:30:37 <NukeBuster> Yeah it isn't pretty
19:30:50 <NukeBuster> Documentation doesn't tell everything either
19:31:15 <peter1138> NukeBuster, ours is totally custom
19:31:52 <NukeBuster> Ok, thanks. Already wondered how you set it up like that.
19:32:41 <peter1138> It also sucks apparently, some people say, though without pointing specific reasons or parts that suck...
19:33:12 <peter1138> ln- is good at that though
19:33:33 <NukeBuster> Hmm, at the moment I like the way you made it. Because I don't want makefiles all over the place
19:34:39 <Prof_Frink> peter1138: It sucks because it's software, and all software sucks.
19:34:45 <Prof_Frink> Some just sucks less.
19:35:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12201 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12060): compilation warnings - uninitialized variable when compiling with assert disabled
19:35:52 <ln-> peter1138: it doesn't work with distcc the normal way, and the location of the actual binary is hidden behind "make run".
19:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> someone needs to branch 0.6, and then include YAPP...
19:36:18 <SpComb> terom@marttila:~$ traceroute6 test-master.meta.myottd.net
19:36:18 <SpComb> traceroute to test-master.meta.myottd.net (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 gw.ipv6.myottd.net (2002:5282:1012::1) 55.784 ms 55.915 ms 56.131 ms 2 qmsk.ipv6.myottd.net (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9) 57.645 ms 57.787 ms 57.860 ms
19:36:44 <SpComb> terom@marttila:~$ traceroute6 test-master.meta.myottd.net
19:36:52 <SpComb> traceroute to test-master.meta.myottd.net (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
19:36:55 <SpComb> 1 gw.ipv6.myottd.net (2002:5282:1012::1) 55.784 ms 55.915 ms 56.131 ms
19:36:58 <SpComb> 2 qmsk.ipv6.myottd.net (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9) 57.645 ms 57.787 ms 57.860 ms
19:37:13 <peter1138> ln-, no, it's in bin/openttd
19:37:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12202 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix: When loading a savegame fails, don't start creating a new game, just go straight back to the intro screen.
19:37:33 <peter1138> make run is some stupid shortcut that i never use...
19:37:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> Unable to connect to 2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9: Network is unreachable
19:37:51 <SmatZ> I use "make run" very often
19:37:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12203 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12199): Make trains pay attention to signals again.
19:38:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't use "make run", i always do b[PgUp]
19:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> string[PgUp] cycles through the history of all commands starting with string
19:39:40 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
19:39:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> where the last command starting with b is usually bin/openttd &
19:40:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> occasionally it's bg
19:40:25 <peter1138> which appears to be bash
19:40:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> but not much else starts with b
19:40:28 <peter1138> also known for sucking
19:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, i have bash
19:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> i found that it does not work in cygwin
19:41:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> so probably it has to be configured somewhere
19:42:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12204 /trunk/src/core/math_func.hpp: -Fix (r12192): using UINT16_MAX broke compilation on many targets
19:42:26 <Digitalfox> If i set in messages settings, "Open/close of industries = OFF" and set "Production changes of industries served by the player = Full", will i be notified about my industries closing?
19:43:08 <Digitalfox> My objective is that i only know if my industries close not every industry in the map..
19:46:11 <Digitalfox> What does "company information" inform?
19:46:30 <Digitalfox> Bankrupt info/annual finances?
19:46:31 <Yorick> companies getting closd by autoclear etc
19:47:45 <debian__> Do I loose stuff stored in train stations?
19:51:49 <peter1138> # it's me i'm cathy
19:52:04 <peter1138> # i've come home and i'm so cold let me inna your window
19:59:37 *** UFO64-alt has joined #openttd
20:05:29 <Belugas> # Sheeeeee is susceptible
20:05:34 <Belugas> # heeeeeee is impossible
20:05:42 <Belugas> # Theeeeeeey have their crosses to share
20:05:48 <Belugas> # three of a perfect pair
20:06:51 <Prof_Frink> I take it that translates to "He lives!"
20:10:21 <peter1138> # i love to watch things on teeee veeee
20:12:59 <Prof_Frink> 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta4 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory <-- topic
20:13:41 <Belugas> # Heeeee has his contradictive views
20:13:50 <Belugas> # sheeee has her cyclotimic mood
20:13:59 <Belugas> # They make a study in despair
20:14:06 <Belugas> # three of a perfect pair
20:14:25 *** Gonozal_VIII has joined #openttd
20:14:36 <Prof_Frink> # Before the leaves have fallen, before we lock the doors, there must be the third and last dance, this one will last forever
20:17:07 <Belugas> # On this harvest moooooooooon
20:25:21 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: It's your fault.
20:28:33 <Prof_Frink> (Music about insanity ftw)
20:28:48 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
20:30:49 <debian__> When does the company start selling shares?
20:31:20 <Vikthor> after being 5 years in bussines or so
20:33:03 <debian__> Is that so it will be wotrth something?
20:33:23 <debian__> And can someone point me in the direction of the shares wiki page?
20:40:50 *** Born_Acorn has joined #openttd
20:44:18 *** Digitalfox has joined #openttd
20:53:06 <debian__> Belugas: It was small
20:53:33 <debian__> Make it more informative so I'll know.,
20:55:36 <LordAzamath> do static grfs have priority over dynamic grfs?
20:56:44 <Belugas> debian__, there are two ways of finding stuff. One is following a direction to where those things are, the other is to know/learn how to get it yourself.
20:56:53 <Belugas> the latter has the advantage to be faster
20:57:01 <Belugas> altough it requires work
20:57:05 <Belugas> as in do it your self ;)
20:57:12 <Belugas> but it pays on the long run :D
20:57:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12205 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: rename RailVehicleInfo::running_cost_base to running_cost, inline with other vehicle types (It is the factor, not the base)
20:57:53 <fjb> And it doesn't annoy other people.
20:58:42 <Belugas> hey.. i did not said that
20:58:57 <Prof_Frink> But you were thinking it loudly.
21:00:30 <Belugas> LordAzamath, i cannot answer that one. I don't know what you mean by priority
21:01:08 <LordAzamath> if I have two grfs modifying the same thing, which one will be showed, static or non-static?
21:01:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> LordAzamath: by default, static grfs are loaded last
21:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you can change the order in the newgrf window
21:02:07 <LordAzamath> just put [newgrf-static] before [newgrf]
21:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think that will have any effect
21:02:36 <Ammler> hmm, is there a reason why they are loaded after?
21:02:54 <Ammler> not better they would be loaded first?
21:02:55 <LordAzamath> I had always the idea that static things run in background and others run over them
21:03:18 <LordAzamath> run (space) over * :D
21:06:39 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
21:06:48 *** LordAzamath has left #openttd
21:08:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12206 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: A comma is not a rare resource. Do not hesitate to use it when needed.
21:09:34 <Prof_Frink> # I'm alive again, the darkness far behind me, I'm invincible, despair will never find me
21:13:08 <fjb> Belugas: Can I have that commit message?
21:13:56 <fjb> Thank you. It is widely applicable outside the OpenTTD source.
21:14:37 <Prof_Frink> As, Tony Blair, will, happily demonstrate.
21:15:48 <fjb> Does he never use a comma when speaking?
21:16:26 <Prof_Frink> # Deception of fame, vengeance of war, lives torn apart, losing oneself, spiralling down, feeling the walls closing in. A journey to find, the answers inside, our illusive mind!
21:17:45 <Prof_Frink> fjb: It's more a case of, he will pause, at random points, in the sentence.
21:18:33 <Belugas> instrumental songs are bad for singing, would I say
21:18:33 <fjb> Oh, not good for a politician. They should learn how to speak.
21:19:39 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Only the overture is instumental ;)
21:20:15 <Belugas> # the holy city breaths like a dying man
21:20:44 <Belugas> Prof_Frink, try singing Mike Oldfield - Taurus1 ;)
21:23:34 *** Osai^work is now known as Osai
21:29:44 *** Morloth|Dancing is now known as Morloth
21:32:52 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: But what would you /do/ with it?
21:32:58 <Prof_Frink> Apart from heat the house
21:33:02 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: compete with zernebok
21:33:10 <Sacro> run a shedload of openttd servers...
21:34:07 <Sacro> might even be able to run YAPF on ships
21:35:00 <Gonozal_VIII> with 400mhz processors? nowai
21:36:14 <debian__> Can ottd run on 400mhz cpu?
21:36:46 <Prof_Frink> openttd has been known to run on a P166 w/ 32MB RAM
21:36:46 <peter1138> So, debian__, are you etch, sarge, woody or potato?
21:36:54 <Sacro> YOUR NAMING 2.2 POTATO?
21:37:20 * Prof_Frink is now known as kubuntu__
21:37:29 <Gonozal_VIII> not with shipyapf prof
21:37:47 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: No, this would have been when I had X on my libretto
21:38:00 <ln-> Prof_Frink: ClosedTTD has been known to run on a 486/33 w/ 8MB RAM.
21:38:20 <Gonozal_VIII> but that thingy should be able to run 64 normal openttd servers just fine
21:38:51 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: It could also host your irssi session
21:38:54 <Sacro> CIA censoredyst Jack Ryan is drawn into an illegal war fought by the US government against a Colombian drug cartel.
21:39:02 <Gonozal_VIII> way too much ram for that...
21:39:05 * Sacro wonders what a censoredist is
21:39:05 <Belugas> for what it's worth, i did not kicked Sacro
21:39:15 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: I have an irssi host
21:39:16 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Arse splitting.
21:39:27 <Sacro> but when i press ^I it detaches the x-chat window
21:39:41 <Sacro> and i have to close and reopen to attach it
21:39:43 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: So do I! It's the P166 w/32MB RAM I mentioned before!
21:40:10 <peter1138> Sacro, er, pressing ^I again reattaches it
21:40:13 *** ThePizzaKing has joined #openttd
21:40:24 <Sacro> peter1138: well whaddaya know!
21:40:41 <Prof_Frink> c-a d detaches the window
21:41:43 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Can you imagine what that site would make of a cocklepicker analyst from Scunthorpe?
21:42:04 <Sacro> i suppose it's clbuttic regex abuse
21:42:49 <fjb> Belugas: It is Bjarni's job to kick Sacro.
21:43:32 <Belugas> Bjarni finds it amusing to kick a lot of people lately
21:44:00 <fjb> At least he kicked himself once.
21:47:33 <debian__> I'm a genious in this game... I hvae 1.300.000
21:48:40 <Sacro> #define ________ putchar
21:48:40 <Sacro> #define _(a) ________(a);
21:48:42 <Sacro> #define ______ _______(){
21:48:43 <Sacro> #define __ ______ _(0x48)_(0x65)_(0x6C)_(0x6C)
21:48:45 <Sacro> #define ___ _(0x6F)_(0x2C)_(0x20)_(0x77)_(0x6F)
21:48:45 <Sacro> #define ____ _(0x72)_(0x6C)_(0x64)_(0x21)
21:48:46 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: That was evel...
21:48:47 <Sacro> #define _____ __ ___ ____ _________
21:48:47 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: You should see my horribly broken ttdpatch game
21:49:09 <Gonozal_VIII> wtf is sacro doing
21:49:17 <Sacro> that's some lovely code there lou
21:49:53 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: I was hitting the £2Gi overflow every day
21:50:40 * fjb is playing with passenger destinations and ECS to not hit that overflow.
21:51:06 <debian__> Gonozal_VIII: Per day? I only see yeer
21:53:11 <fjb> I'm making about 9000000 after expeses a year in my actual game.
21:53:54 <Gonozal_VIII> i remember single trains doing that^^
21:54:24 <fjb> Yes, but it is not that easy to handle ECS. Much experimenting nedded...
21:54:24 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: I have ships making a loss on each journey
21:54:49 <Prof_Frink> Again, this is TTDPatch
21:54:50 <Gonozal_VIII> my ships always made profit.. not much but no loss
21:55:03 <Gonozal_VIII> is that so much different?
21:55:23 <Prof_Frink> No overflow-protect
21:56:46 <Gonozal_VIII> oveflowing ships :S
21:57:33 <debian__> I buy every computer that came along
21:57:42 <debian__> so I dont actualy do any building
21:58:31 <fjb> Buying computers in the game? You are sure you are playing OpenTTD?
22:02:58 <debian__> I'm buying them through shares...
22:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Sacro> that's some lovely code there lou <- you did not show any code yet
22:03:27 <debian__> Gonozal_VIII: Then they can build for me...
22:03:44 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think, that's such a good idea^^
22:04:44 <debian__> Can I turn off the siund effects?
22:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> my current profit is 230.000.000 per year
22:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> debian__: yes, click on the notes icon on the right of the main toolbar
22:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> then turn the sound effects volume to 0
22:07:34 <debian__> The music is nice, but the constant train noise was annoying.
22:08:30 * glx plays without music, but likes the train noise
22:08:53 <fjb> Hm, is digging tunnels under oil wells a good idea...?
22:09:16 * fjb didn't get music working yet.
22:10:28 <debian__> Why does the AI's borrow so much money?
22:11:39 <fjb> Because it fails to make profit.
22:12:37 <debian__> I'm making profit, and I only buy AI's!
22:12:49 <peter1138> debian__, so have you considered a more suitable nickname for IRC?
22:13:24 <fjb> peter1138: Maybe his real name is Deborah Ian...
22:13:29 <Gonozal_VIII> how about "/quit"
22:14:18 *** debian__ is now known as IRC-Nick
22:14:49 * fjb thinks that IRC-Nick is a very creative guy.
22:15:03 *** IRC-Nick is now known as yzaLyzarC
22:15:29 <yzaLyzarC> peter1138: Is it suitabole for me?
22:15:49 <peter1138> I don't know you well enough :p
22:16:00 <yzaLyzarC> From what you've seen today!
22:16:45 <Gonozal_VIII> he's letting the ai build for him
22:16:51 <Gonozal_VIII> i think the nick is fitting
22:18:22 <yzaLyzarC> Gonozal_VIII: Thank you!
22:20:11 <yzaLyzarC> I have a company value of: ~8.800.000
22:23:09 * fjb has a company value of 34597818 in August 1951.
22:23:47 <yzaLyzarC> If I tell it to automagicaly change from diesel to electrical, will it update the rails?
22:24:36 <yzaLyzarC> I think it did, or the elektronic train is driving on diesles tracks
22:26:36 <peter1138> Prof_Frink is a Dieselist
22:26:43 <yzaLyzarC> And as far as I can see it updates the tracks!
22:27:40 <yzaLyzarC> Or else it is an bug...
22:28:52 <fjb> Was the track build by the ai? It usually builds electrified tracks.
22:29:15 <ln-> is there a cheap (USB or PCI) soundcard that can output AC3?
22:29:28 <Sacro> ln-: you mean undecoded?
22:29:40 <yzaLyzarC> Can I upgrade railways?
22:30:10 <ln-> Sacro: no, i want AC3 verbatim in coaxial form.
22:30:11 * Sacro has a soundcard that outputs dts amd dolby digital
22:30:19 <Sacro> ln-: yes, creative ones can
22:30:39 <Sacro> actually, onboard ones might too
22:31:04 <ln-> i've got SPDIF out integrated on my motherboard, but it's unfortunately unable to output AC3 properly under linux.
22:31:25 <Sacro> linux support is a puzzler
22:31:31 <Sacro> maybe an emu10k1 card would be better
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22:32:02 <Sacro> but i think that is emu20k1
22:32:06 <ln-> depending on the decoder in the amplifier, there is either sound or no sound. it doesn't properly set some AC3 bit on, but some decoders ignore that.
22:33:14 <fjb> yzaLyzarC: That is what the upgrade button is for.
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22:35:58 <fjb_> yzaLyzarC: Did you ever try to find out any function of the game by your own?
22:36:20 <yzaLyzarC> fjb_: I managed to open the game, and install almost without help...
22:36:55 <fjb_> And now the rest of the world is there to tell you what you have to do?
22:38:20 <yzaLyzarC> fjb_: No, only a few guys on irc
22:40:02 <fjb_> I guess that guys will stop to answer your questions if you are to lazy to read the manual or even the tooltips.
22:40:14 * Sacro tests LOTR:FOTR in surround
22:47:23 <yzaLyzarC> This might seam like a stupid question but, where is the manual?
22:53:47 <yzaLyzarC> Is the person who made this game here?
22:54:03 <yzaLyzarC> The person who open-sourced it!
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22:55:48 <DorpsGek> Sacro: ludde was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 32 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <ludde> :)
22:56:46 <yzaLyzarC> Is ludde the person who open-sourced this game?
22:57:15 <ln-> no, the game was never open-sourced.
22:57:45 <fjb> Oh, somebody exorcized our ghost... :-(
22:58:12 <Prof_Frink> ln-: Well, when it only existed on ludde's hard drive it was effectively closed source
22:58:19 <yzaLyzarC> ln-: Definition on the word open-sourcED, bavaward engeenering to get the source code of something.
22:58:29 <Sacro> yzaLyzarC: no, orudge did that
22:58:39 <ln-> "bavaward engeenering"...
22:58:50 <Sacro> ludde owned the copyright, so techincally he "open sourced"
22:58:56 <Sacro> but orudge released it to the hounds
22:59:43 <yzaLyzarC> So ludde made the original game? He didnt backward engeneer anything?
23:00:22 <Prof_Frink> Chris Sawyer made Transport Tycoon.
23:00:25 <Sacro> no, Chris Sawyer made the original game
23:00:30 <Sacro> and ludde backwards engineered fit
23:00:51 <fjb> Reengeneering never opens the source. You get an alternate source that leads to that executable.
23:01:18 <yzaLyzarC> fjb: To the ecsact same executable?
23:01:23 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: With reference to Marcin's internals that were done for TTDPatch
23:01:44 <fjb> yzaLyzarC: Ofcourse. Start thinking.
23:01:46 <Sacro> fjb: that word requires an i ;)
23:02:04 <yzaLyzarC> fjb: Can it be done with any executaboles?
23:02:22 <fjb> Sacro: Ok, then I buy an i.
23:03:11 <Sacro> can i have an i please bob?
23:03:37 <ln-> 00:58 < yzaLyzarC> ln-: Definition on the word open-sourcED, bavaward engeenering to get the source code of something. <--- this is YOUR definition of it, but not a commonly accepted definition.
23:05:14 <yzaLyzarC> Open-sourced means to release the source-code, agreed?
23:06:10 <ln-> of something you have the source to.
23:06:56 <ln-> neither of those were true in this case, except on the ludde-orudge scale.
23:07:31 <yzaLyzarC> You dont have to own it, only in some way be able to release it to the general public!
23:07:56 <ln-> that is not the commonly accepted definition, i claim.
23:08:02 <fjb> Ludde never had the TTD source code.
23:09:20 <yzaLyzarC> fjb: He made it from assembely, why dont people still code assembely?!
23:10:01 <Prof_Frink> yzaLyzarC: People do.
23:10:45 <fjb> People do it in special cases for special reasons.
23:24:48 <yzaLyzarC> I would love to manually put bits on my hd with an magnet
23:25:45 <Prof_Frink> yzaLyzarC: Magnet? Pfft. Use a butterfly.
23:26:00 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd
23:26:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138
23:26:19 <yzaLyzarC> Can openttd be run in an ssh console?
23:28:25 <fjb> The dedicated server can without question. The version with the X interface can if you enable X forwarding in ssh.
23:28:42 <peter1138> fjb, and if you like it slow...
23:29:40 <fjb> peter1138: He didn't aks for speed. And I don't think speed is important for somebody who wants to manipulate bits on his hard disk using a magnet.
23:30:39 <Sacro> heh, i've done x-forwarding ottd before
23:30:50 <Sacro> hmm, i just realised i left my laptop next to a 380W subwoofer
23:31:21 <fjb> Sacro: That shouldn't harm it.
23:31:24 <Gonozal_VIII> better chech the hd then
23:31:50 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Better use an unified diff.
23:31:58 <Sacro> fjb: it came with a note saying "DO NOT PLACE THIS SUBWOOFER WITHIN 60cm (2 foot) OF ANY PC/MONITOR/TV"
23:32:19 <Sacro> and the box has a "WARNING: MAGNETIC CONTENTS INSIDE" sticker
23:32:39 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Does it warp the fabric of thyme and space?
23:32:44 <fjb> It would influence the display tube.
23:33:17 <Gonozal_VIII> indeed it does prof, any matter does that
23:33:17 <fjb> But I doubt that it will have any influence on your hd.
23:34:41 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
23:37:05 <Sacro> any chance of an L shaped openttd window?
23:37:14 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
23:41:40 <Tekky> I've just been testing the new version of YAPP, I'm impressed :)
23:42:09 <peter1138> Another new one? :o
23:42:51 <Tekky> peter1138: I've only tested YAPP version 4 today, although it has been already released 3 days ago.
23:44:31 <Tekky> automatic train reversal is a pain in version 4 though, if you mix traditional and PBS signals.
23:45:53 <Tekky> ben_goodger: YAPP = Yet Another PBS Patch
23:46:17 <ben_goodger> I ask only because the wiki lies bereft
23:46:20 <Sacro> Police in the Czech republic are trying to find out who stole a 4 tonne railway bridge from the border town of Cheb.
23:46:20 <Sacro> The company which was responsible for looking after the bridge raised the alarm when, ever alert, they noticed that the bridge wasn't there any more.
23:47:21 <Sacro> how does someone steal a bridge :\
23:47:32 <peter1138> Sacro, is it the same organisation that keeps losing CDs?
23:47:39 <Tekky> fjb: you can only switch off trains waiting for a PBS paths, but you can't switch off waiting time in front of standard signals. And michi_cc added a feature which prevents trains from moving after reversing in blocks with PBS signals. This causes trains to deadlock in PBS areas when reversing in front of a non-PBS signal.
23:47:40 <fjb> A steel mill disappeared in China about 30 years ago.
23:48:11 <Morloth> peter1138: I though you went to bed? ;)
23:48:52 <Gonozal_VIII> steal mills disappear ingame all the time
23:49:18 <fjb> Where is the chinese rail set?
23:50:18 <fjb> Lots of steam engines and the transrapid.
23:50:20 <Vikthor> Sacro: If you were living here, in Czech republic such news couldn't surprise you anymore
23:50:40 <Tekky> that newGRF railset does not allow any multiplayer, though, because all transportation is monopolized by the state company :)
23:51:13 <fjb> Perfect for the coop guys.
23:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... something is wrong... there is a wagon missing...
23:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> i did not get the 120km/h gondola wagon
23:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> 1986, i got all the other wagons a while ago
23:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, that is the self discharging wagon that comes in 1990
23:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> but the gondola wagon should come with the others
23:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> DB Hochbordwagen rotbraun 1970 30 t Getreide Kohle, Eisenerz, Waren
23:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> DB Selbstentladewagen rotbraun verkehrsrot 1990 1997 120 Eisenerz Kohle, Getreide
23:56:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> they are different wagons
23:56:22 <fjb> I thought about the later.
23:56:51 <fjb> You probably were not nice to MB and this is his revenge.
23:57:40 <fjb> Do you have any other grf loaded which could cause a conflict?
23:59:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> not that i know of
continue to next day ⏵
