IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-02-18
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01:42:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12171 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp:
01:42:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#609]: return correct bridge price for AI when DC_QUERY_COST is set (patch by Raimar Falke)
01:42:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: It never happens in current code, but it is better to be ready for it
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02:52:22 <UnderBuilder> anyone know the parodius games?
02:52:33 <UnderBuilder> it's gradius done funny
02:52:55 <UnderBuilder> well, toyland should be TTD did so
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03:08:25 <CaptObvious> anyone know of any announced titles or even rumours of new games in the TTD genre?
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08:15:57 <Gonozal_VIII> trying to update some oldish patches
08:19:51 <Gonozal_VIII> some of the viewpoints are not redrawn
08:20:40 <Gonozal_VIII> they don't get set to dirty
08:25:32 <Gonozal_VIII> only 32 of them are
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08:42:41 <Gonozal_VIII> yay a working patch
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09:16:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12172 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Allow buttons to resize in NewGRF settings window
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10:12:43 <Gonozal_VIII> all new! teh yays!
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10:29:10 * peter1138 has posted an updated version of engine pools to his webspace.
10:30:03 <Gonozal_VIII> [11:22:40] <dih> hello Belugas :-) <-- that
10:30:52 <dih> yes - because he likes using tab completion even for a 3 letter nick
10:31:09 <dih> and then he gets Diabolic-Angel :-P
10:33:27 <Diabolic-Angel> I'm just throwing in some flames now and then
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10:44:01 <Gonozal_VIII> [11:29:09] * @peter1138 has posted an updated version of engine pools to his webspace. <-- where would one find that?
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10:48:27 <peter1138> In the usual place.
10:48:37 <Gonozal_VIII> i know of no such place
10:53:15 <dih> sounds like you have someone to cook for you....
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10:56:49 <Morloth> btw, you were right about using DC_QUERY_COST last night peter1138 :)
10:57:28 <Gonozal_VIII> yep, grandma cooked today :-)
10:57:40 <Morloth> Damn, still tired. Worked till 5 a.m. in the morning last night :X
10:57:47 <Gonozal_VIII> now where is that mysterious "usual place"?
10:57:59 <Morloth> Gonozal_VIII: You wouldn't be Italian would you? ;)
11:00:54 <Morloth> Last night I couldn't attach patches to posts on bugs.openttd.org. Is this fixed now?
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11:04:42 <Gonozal_VIII> :-/ looked all of peters forum posts containing the word "engine" but still can't find it
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11:12:54 <Gonozal_VIII> nothing in the forum, nothing on flyspray, nothing in google... mentioned once in the wiki but no link...
11:15:37 <Gonozal_VIII> fuzzle? now how on earth should i have guessed that
11:15:54 <Vikthor> You have not tried to search logs of this channel ;)
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11:18:39 <Gonozal_VIII> peter, i guess after all that work you put into hiding that patch as far away as possible, you don't want me to include it in my patchpack, right?
11:22:37 <peter1138> It's not hidden, it's plainly there in sight.
11:23:06 <Noldo> now that's a hair well split
11:24:05 <peter1138> Gah, someone needs to make a ship set that starts in a useful timeframe.
11:24:31 <Gonozal_VIII> i changed newships to start in 1873
11:25:07 <Gonozal_VIII> because serbian railset starts in 1873...
11:26:30 <Gonozal_VIII> i've downloaded a test version of some tool i needed for uni stuff..
11:26:51 <Gonozal_VIII> now the company i downloaded it from wants to give me free cebit tickets
11:27:41 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm aren't all tickets free there :S
11:29:28 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe, free free stuff
11:29:51 <Gonozal_VIII> yay for pbs indeed
11:35:03 <Gonozal_VIII> that's more than free
11:35:34 <pm|away> yeah. starting at 17€ only for weekend. The company will give you probably business cards valid on any day - 33€ worth.
11:36:46 <pm|away> I'd say: take the offer, if you're interested :D
11:37:02 <Gonozal_VIII> i'm not planning on going there
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11:40:26 <Gonozal_VIII> is it intended, that you can activate the dynamic engine pool only through editing the cfg file?
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11:40:56 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, well, I couldn't be arsed doing the GUI bit originally...
11:44:52 <Gonozal_VIII> deactivated a grf
11:45:31 <Gonozal_VIII> index < this->GetSize()
11:48:18 <Gonozal_VIII> changing grfs in running game no goody
11:48:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12173 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Cleanup: Minor codestyle fixes.
11:49:05 <peter1138> "You are about to make changes to a running game; this can crash OpenTTD. Are you absolutely sure about this?"
11:51:28 <Gonozal_VIII> i read that^^ but it used to work
11:54:05 <Morloth> Code code code.... We should ask for donations :)
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12:06:04 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm notgood, vehicle tab is full
12:07:18 <Gonozal_VIII> now do i resize the configure patches window or put it somewhere else...
12:11:15 <Gonozal_VIII> i move disable electric rails to construction :D
12:11:59 <Gonozal_VIII> i'm so many intellent :D
12:14:25 <peter1138> That's why I didn't add it ;)
12:14:39 <Gonozal_VIII> works fine now :-)
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12:21:10 <Gonozal_VIII> Message subject: enginepool settings gui
12:21:10 <Gonozal_VIII> From: Gonozal_VIII
12:21:10 <Gonozal_VIII> Sent at: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:20 pm
12:22:13 <peter1138> Well I don't need to worry about it, as in trunk there is a space in the vehicle patches tab now ;)
12:22:21 <peter1138> Also I might just make it dynamic.
12:23:32 <Gonozal_VIII> trunk doesn't have timetable seperation, right...
12:24:47 <Gonozal_VIII> anyways.. you wouldn't mind if i released a version of my patchpack that includes your enginepool?
12:29:29 <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: is tht a question, or are you waving your hand jedi style?
12:29:53 <Sacro> peter1138: you wouldn't mind me borrow your credit card would you?
12:30:43 <Gonozal_VIII> yay :-) mergered
12:32:12 <Gonozal_VIII> will work nicely with the build and refit patch
12:33:09 <peter1138> Sacro, as I don't have one...
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12:36:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12174 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make the patches window dynamically resize to the largest patch tab, so adding patch options is simply a case of adding to the lists.
12:37:14 <peter1138> That should make your life a little tiny bit easier ;)
12:38:31 <Gonozal_VIII> but i think electric rails fits better in the construction tab anyways
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12:43:33 <White_Rabbit> why can't I forbid towns to build roads in the scenario editor? what if I want to build roads for the town manually, and then simply press the expand button without having to deal with messy road junctions that the town creates?
12:44:13 <Gonozal_VIII> 2*2 or 3*3 isn't messy...
12:44:32 <frosch123> Wasn't there a patch option to disable road building for towns, or does that work only ingame?
12:45:39 <White_Rabbit> I'd still prefer to have greater control over the roads, Gonozal
12:46:12 <White_Rabbit> somwetimes I wonder how Jim Powers does it..
12:46:36 <peter1138> frosch123, "The town layout "no more roads" isn't valid in the secnario editor"
12:47:20 <White_Rabbit> I think Belugas disabled that, but I never got to read the reason, and now I've lost track of his post
12:48:48 <Gonozal_VIII> the dynamic resizing works fine but the window appears on a different position now
12:51:25 <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. that 50 pixel top part is centered
12:53:45 <Gonozal_VIII> but only on opening, if you resize the game window it centers
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12:55:29 <peter1138> I shall need to fix that then :o
12:58:57 <peter1138> Hmm, what is it that repositions them when the game window is resized...
13:07:48 <peter1138> Oh my, that's nasty...
13:08:20 <Gonozal_VIII> calculate the size earlier?
13:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> several windows get centered when the game window is resized
13:12:09 <Gonozal_VIII> configure patches window gets centered when you open it too... but it seems to use the wrong size now
13:12:48 <Gonozal_VIII> when it's centered because of game window resize it uses the right size
13:13:33 <Gonozal_VIII> and now i'll try the stuff you wrote about middlestop...
13:14:48 <Morloth> Whoohooo, my pathfinding is working quite nicelly :). It only fails on really mountainous maps, can't figure out yet how to check if a road from A -> B can actually be build :/
13:15:26 <Gonozal_VIII> does it build on slopes?
13:16:25 <Morloth> but if it crosses a road on a slope it sometimes fails, still have to figure out how to catch or check for this
13:16:51 <Gonozal_VIII> aaaand does it reuse existing roads?
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13:18:28 <Morloth> Gonozal_VIII: yeah, that too :)
13:18:33 <Morloth> I'll post a screenshot I just took
13:19:56 <Morloth> So it's working quite nice, except for mountain maps :/
13:20:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12175 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix (r12174): Ensure the patches window is centred properly.
13:20:58 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, it got centred to the initial size which is for no options at all, hehe...
13:21:20 <peter1138> Why did I do w->top = w->top - instead of w->top -= ...
13:22:12 <Gonozal_VIII> fix for the fix?^^
13:22:25 <peter1138> Doesn't matter, hehe
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14:15:49 <LordAzamath> hmm.. What an idea...
14:16:02 <LordAzamath> to be able to make completely random maps
14:16:22 <LordAzamath> so all settings in world generation would be randomized too
14:16:37 <LordAzamath> not only random seed
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14:19:34 <LordAzamath> did you just smoke Belugas? ^^
14:20:13 <Belugas> long time i did, in fact
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14:20:28 <Belugas> and if i'd smoked, it would have been poff
14:20:30 <LordAzamath> what's the 'buff' for then?
14:23:01 <Gonozal_VIII> could be useful for a server that restarts with a random map every x years
14:23:06 <Belugas> someone asked me to react more when an idea caomes up...
14:23:14 <Gonozal_VIII> but for single player... nah
14:23:14 <Belugas> seems it is not always a wanted behavuour ;)
14:23:56 <Belugas> i had a much better idea on HOW to DO signals on bridges ;)
14:24:17 <Gonozal_VIII> signals on bridges!!! and in tunnels!!! givegivegive
14:26:15 <LordAzamath> ...and Belugas points to the hungry birds pic... ^^
14:26:21 <Gonozal_VIII> in theory a single bit on every bridgehead/tunnel entry could be enough
14:26:58 <Belugas> wrong at Gonozal_VIII
14:27:04 <Yexo> Gonozal: how about one-way/two-way signals?
14:27:16 <Gonozal_VIII> bit set on the left bridgehead... one way signals from left to right with signal drag distance
14:27:30 <Gonozal_VIII> signal on the right end... one way other direction
14:27:38 <Gonozal_VIII> both bits... two way
14:27:51 <Yexo> but that means if you change the signal drag distance all your signals on bridges will change
14:28:08 <Yexo> that's not good if you have two networks on the same map with different signal distance
14:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: the problem is not how to place signals on the bridge, the problem is how to make the trains recognize them
14:28:17 <Yexo> for example some feeder lanes to a large network
14:28:42 <Yexo> and IIRC the state of the signals is stored in the map array
14:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> trains only recognise signals when moving between tiles
14:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> but the tile does not change while on the bridge
14:29:03 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: and how do you know if a signal is red or not?
14:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's the exact reason why the custom bridgeheads project was cancelled
14:30:08 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause3, i think i've solved already hotw to put signals on bridges :)
14:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, marked as "impossible with the current system"
14:30:42 <Yexo> Belugas: and how would you do it?
14:30:57 <Belugas> Yexo, there are many ways to store values, map is just one suppor ;)
14:31:15 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause3, not you, put signals on bridge...
14:31:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> Belugas: what about SmatZ's flexible tunnel/bridge work?
14:31:23 <Yexo> creating a new pool of bridges and store an id at each of the bridge heads?
14:35:38 <Yexo> so you're going that way? then custom bridgeheads will be easy
14:46:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> anyone got a pencil?
14:46:56 * Belugas silently passes his pencil to Eddi|zuHause3
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14:50:10 <peter1138> Custom bridge heads were easy back in r2800
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14:53:17 <Yexo> and what changed that they're not so easy now?
14:55:24 <Belugas> Tron and Celestar changed the way they were done, basically
14:56:03 <Yexo> can someone give me some help with my programmable waypoints patch?
14:57:20 <Yexo> I would like to change it from waypoints to signals, so it would become more like routing restrictions from the patch
14:58:33 <Yexo> but for that I need to store 2 ID's in the map array
14:59:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12176 /trunk/src/sound.cpp: -Codechange: one division less when playing sounds (patch by Dominik)
15:00:17 <peter1138> There's not enough room for one let alone two :o
15:00:19 <Yexo> yes, there can be two signals on one tile
15:00:43 <Yexo> there is enough room for one if I can shift some data from m2 to m7
15:01:13 <Yexo> Or if I can move out all signals related data to an extern struct, I'd fit
15:01:31 <Yexo> but I think that'd hurt speed a lot
15:02:10 <frosch123> Yexo: Why do you need 2 ids? Just store the info for both signals in the external table
15:02:12 <peter1138> In my version of restrictions I just used waypoints like you.
15:02:38 <Gonozal_VIII> would be ok with diagonal waypoints
15:03:23 <Yexo> that's not the same Gonozal_VIII
15:03:31 <Yexo> as you can't have a waypoint and signals on one tile
15:03:39 <Yexo> for example the free tile before stations
15:04:26 <Yexo> frosch123, that's also possible, but'll give very messy code
15:04:33 <Yexo> but perhaps that's the best option
15:05:16 <frosch123> Alternative you can store the index of the second signal in the information for the first signal
15:06:11 <Belugas> nnaaaa.... just add a new byte :S
15:06:31 <Yexo> two new bytes I'd need :)
15:06:39 <peter1138> Add enough memory to store all the restrictions!
15:07:02 <Yexo> that's just about 100 bytes x2 :)
15:08:24 <peter1138> I ought to finish the GUI on mine.
15:09:56 <Yexo> I will go try to move all signal bits from m2 to m7
15:10:29 <Yexo> what files should I like at to start with?
15:11:30 <peter1138> Why not just use m7?
15:11:44 <Yexo> because I'd like more then just 9 bits?
15:11:57 <peter1138> Moving stuff around does not give you more bits.
15:12:23 <peter1138> You've got 22 bits to play with.
15:12:26 <Gonozal_VIII> defragmenting :-)
15:12:40 <Yexo> Gonozal_VIII, that's what I was up to
15:12:58 <Yexo> but I realise now that's give problems with old savegames
15:13:05 <peter1138> I'd use m7 0-7 | m2 8-15
15:16:54 <peter1138> Add a blank line after the break
15:20:47 <Yexo> I need lots more comments in my code
15:23:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> comments are overrated ;)
15:23:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> better is self-commenting code ;)
15:23:48 <Yexo> some comments above each function about what is does is very handy
15:24:02 <Yexo> comments within functions only when the function is large or obscure
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15:24:45 <Gonozal_VIII> int number; //this is a number
15:25:33 <blathijs> It should also be ///<
15:25:33 <glx> too much comments kill comments
15:25:55 <Gonozal_VIII> what is that ///< stuff anyways?
15:25:59 <blathijs> Gonozal_VIII: Doxygen
15:26:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> like that hex-converter in 3000 lines
15:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> each line is commented with 3 line comments ;)
15:26:25 <blathijs> Gonozal_VIII: It tells doxygen to parse the comments when producing API docs
15:29:58 <Gonozal_VIII> x = (5 / 2) * 2 // x == 4 ///< here is a very useful comment
15:30:42 <Gonozal_VIII> or doesn't look for that stuff inside comments?
15:30:48 <Yexo> //< is only used for declarations, or not?
15:31:07 <Yexo> int x; ///< x will be maximum speed
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15:46:06 <Morloth> Arg! Where can I find the max speed of a vehicle when he's driving on a flat surface??
15:47:14 <Morloth> I can ask for the value of RoadVehInfo->max_speed, but this isn't the correct value
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15:48:53 <Morloth> Hmmz... let's check :)
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15:53:23 <Gonozal_VIII> 17:47:14 < Morloth> I can ask for the value of RoadVehInfo->max_speed, but this isn't the correct value <-- even if you multiply it by 1.6?
15:54:05 <Morloth> Wel, yes. The speed in the gui says : 48 km/h. But max_speed = 96
15:54:43 <Morloth> I could divide in by 2, but I would have no idea what I'm doing
15:56:33 <Morloth> SetDParam(1, rvi->max_speed * 10 / 32); << I could find this, but it doesn't give the correct value.
15:58:19 <Gonozal_VIII> did i mention that imperial units suck and that they should be removed from everywhere in the code because of that?
15:58:44 <Morloth> Gonozal_VIII: No, but I do agree :)
15:59:57 <Gonozal_VIII> grfs have vehicle speed in km/h, the game converts that to something close to mph, calculates everything with that and then converts back to km/h
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16:02:15 <LordAzamath> whoa, LordAzamath pings out soon
16:02:35 <LordAzamath> or something like that
16:02:44 <LordAzamath> I thought I was LordAzamath_ now :D
16:02:51 <Gonozal_VIII> who's lordazamath? never heard of that guy
16:03:16 <Gonozal_VIII> nope, doesn't ring a bell
16:03:25 <LordAzamath> Gonozal_VIII: You mistyped his name..
16:04:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have no time for this...
16:04:51 <Gonozal_VIII> compile of your new patch thingy finished...
16:04:56 <LordAzamath> Gonozal_VIII: Capital letters, do these ring a bell?
16:04:57 <Gonozal_VIII> an hour ago or something^^
16:06:51 <Gonozal_VIII> slows down way too much
16:08:23 <Gonozal_VIII> maglev thingy one tile long on a 7 tile station, comes in with 643, slows down to 49 on the first station tile, 24 on the second, 8 on the third, stops at the fourth
16:08:30 <LordAzamath> nope, that's your eyes being slow
16:09:40 <Gonozal_VIII> and the sprite is misaligned :S
16:09:57 <Gonozal_VIII> that's the old lev4 chimera....
16:10:10 <Gonozal_VIII> how can that have misaligned sprites
16:10:25 <peter1138> Sometimes the original graphics are misaligned...
16:10:27 <Belugas> Yexo, your ruleset... poolitem... could it be done in a better way, i guess
16:10:34 <Belugas> + RuleType rule_type[MAX_RULES];
16:10:34 <Belugas> + Compare rule_cmp[MAX_RULES];
16:10:34 <Belugas> + int32 rule_value[MAX_RULES];
16:10:34 <Belugas> + uint8 rule_depth[MAX_RULES];
16:10:34 <Belugas> + int32 rule_data[MAX_RULES];
16:10:49 <Belugas> make a structure instead
16:10:59 <Yexo> I had that first, but then I had problems with saving
16:11:14 <Yexo> struct/class, the same thing
16:11:28 <Gonozal_VIII> but struct sounds so old fashioned
16:11:33 <Yexo> First I had a struct Rule
16:11:37 <Belugas> plenty of examples in the code...
16:11:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12177 /trunk/src/ (13 files): -Codechange: use 'side' parameter in GetTileTrackStatus so there can be less checks in pathfinders for depots/stations/tunnels/bridges
16:11:56 <Yexo> saving a rule[20] or so?
16:13:02 <Yexo> Can you give me some some of the code where that is done?
16:13:10 <Yexo> I couldn't find it last time I searched
16:14:50 <Yexo> and I guess I'll have to split progsignal.cpp/h in multiple files
16:15:28 <Belugas> question is... you already have a pool. Why do you need a bunch of arrays for each rule?
16:16:34 <Yexo> Well, I could use a pool of rules (instead of a pool of rulesets), but then it'd be very hard to keep the display as it is
16:16:56 <Yexo> I'd have to change to a routing restrictions gui (and/or are before any of the actual rules)
16:17:03 <Yexo> and I don't like that prefix notation.
16:17:43 <Yexo> Or I could cache the ruleset the user is editing in a structure kinda like it is now
16:18:25 <peter1138> GUI needs work, heh...
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16:21:15 <Belugas> Yexo, changing the behaviour of widgets with that argument stuff seems a bit strange for me. I mean, it will only be used for that purpose
16:21:52 <peter1138> Belugas, that's because the code is from before my drop down list changes
16:22:22 <Yexo> Around that time I proposed a new dropdown list system and a few days later peter1138 came with the new system
16:22:35 <Yexo> I already changed that in my code, but I haven't uploaded that yet
16:25:41 <Yexo> peter1138, if I read your diff correctly, it's only possible to have one restriction per tile?
16:25:52 <peter1138> You misread it, then.
16:26:21 <peter1138> + Restriction *next; ////< Next restriction in list
16:28:16 <Yexo> But you create some linked list of rules instead of a tree like I do
16:35:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12178 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: use the 'side' parameter in TrainController and TrainCheckIfLineEnds to simplify the code
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16:46:35 <Belugas> pfff.. redoing logs from r12138 to head
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16:57:30 <LordAzamath> I think it's a typo for removig :D ^^
17:01:22 <Belugas> doing logs instead...
17:01:36 *** Brianett1 is now known as Brianetta
17:01:40 <Belugas> but performing once more the log deciphering-reformating task
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17:04:26 <Danielsonkc> Im trying to auto replace my vehicles. If I do not have a new model vehicle than the ones im using than i can't auto replace. any advice?
17:04:50 <Gonozal_VIII> that's autorenew then
17:09:04 <Danielsonkc> but when my vehicles are old and the model offered to autorenew is an older than the model I already have what do i do then?
17:09:35 <Gonozal_VIII> no what you're looking at is autoreplace
17:09:57 <Gonozal_VIII> autorenew happens automatically if you have the patch settings right
17:09:57 <Vikthor> Now that you mention it, is there a way to replace(for new model) a locomotive, but only when the old is really old?
17:10:37 <Gonozal_VIII> not that i know of...
17:11:06 <Gonozal_VIII> but the value decrease is linear so it doesn't really matter
17:11:19 <Vikthor> What I mean is combining both autorenew and autoreplace
17:11:38 <Gonozal_VIII> (if you sell a vehicle after half its lifespan, it still has half the value)
17:11:44 <Gonozal_VIII> i know what you mean
17:12:16 <Danielsonkc> how do i do that- I already autoreplace with newer models when they come out, my problem is - no new versions of vehicles are coming out and now i can't autorepair. When I look at avalible vehicles it shows newer vehicle options but when i go into the depot to replace them they option of the newer vehicles is no longer there
17:13:15 <Danielsonkc> noppers, i think i found a glitch in autoreplace
17:13:34 <glx> there's a dropdown box in bottom
17:13:52 <Gonozal_VIII> nonono, you're still mixing up autoreplace with autorenew
17:14:32 <Gonozal_VIII> autorenew is replacing with the same vehicle type, autoreplace is replacing with different type
17:15:14 <Danielsonkc> so how do i autoreplace?
17:15:38 <Gonozal_VIII> that happens automatically
17:16:13 <Gonozal_VIII> you can set it the time when it happens from 12 month befor up to 12 month after it reaches its max age
17:16:51 <Danielsonkc> mine was set at 6 months like normal - then i set it to 0 is that my problem autorenew after 0 months old?
17:17:21 <Gonozal_VIII> no, 0 means the same month it reaches its max age
17:17:33 <Danielsonkc> so it should be working
17:18:06 <Gonozal_VIII> there's a button autorenew vehicle when it gets old
17:18:15 <Gonozal_VIII> that has to be active
17:18:29 <Danielsonkc> located? in patches
17:18:41 <Gonozal_VIII> right above the month...
17:21:05 <Gonozal_VIII> a combination of autoreplace and autorenew could really be nice for some more (attention, bad word following) realism... not all vehicles would be replaced at once then
17:21:56 <Sacro> Frostregen: that's no PBS bug, you've not done the layout right
17:22:13 <Gonozal_VIII> always signal after station
17:22:47 <Danielsonkc> thank you thank you, gonozal
17:22:48 <Gonozal_VIII> always signal everywhere trains should stop...
17:25:29 <Gonozal_VIII> what are you talking about ln?
17:25:47 <michi_cc> Sacro: actually, the wrong track reservation is a PBS bug. You're right about why the train doesn't leave the depot though.
17:26:27 <Gonozal_VIII> isn't that triangular track piece the one the signal is on? that one should be reserved..
17:27:41 <Sacro> michi_cc: i didn't view the save, but the station needs starter signals
17:29:23 <michi_cc> Sacro: the problem with the station is that it only has one signal after the platforms that acts as a safe stopping point. The second train can't exit the depot as long as the only safe point is still blocked by the first train.
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17:30:17 <Gonozal_VIII> that's new, they just entered end crashed while exiting before
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17:34:30 <peter1138> I just noticed that vehicles say "Waiting for free path" in the status bar :D
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17:36:11 <LordAzamath> peter1138: When did that change take place? :D
17:36:38 <peter1138> Well I didn't notice it in v3...
17:42:28 * LordAzamath is compiling 12178
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17:54:07 <White_Rabbit> anyone feel like playing a multiplayer game?
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18:03:06 <Danielsonkc> is 2051 the end? I know you can pick start date so does that mean there is no end date parsay?
18:03:52 <Danielsonkc> anyone... anyone... buler?
18:05:31 <Danielsonkc> momma talkin to me tryin to tell me how to live
18:06:00 <Axamentia> Afaik 2051 is the game end date
18:06:20 <Axamentia> I know you can end earlier
18:06:32 <Axamentia> But you can still keep playing after scoring
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18:36:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12179 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: use GetCrossingRailTrack() and GetCrossingRailAxis() to improve code readability
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19:11:32 <Yorick> michi_cc: did you test the 0x44 newgrf station variable without the path debugging?
19:14:03 <Yorick> I said 0x44, not 4x03?
19:14:34 <ln-> Yorick: everyone knows there is no 0th season, and rarely 44 episodes per season.
19:16:26 <Gonozal_VIII> that was the first google hit when i searched for 4x03 an hour or so ago when you asked the first time
19:19:02 <michi_cc> Yorick: at least the newgrf I test works
19:20:16 <ln-> this level of 4x03lessness is becoming unacceptable.
19:20:45 <Yorick> I'm still waiting for 3x14...
19:20:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12180 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix: Test purchase list loading/loaded sprites instead of unconditionally returning a possibly non-existant sprite.
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19:27:08 <ben_goodger> you saw the page, there is no swedish conspiracy. move along
19:28:36 * peter1138 has a cup of chai...
19:29:42 * peter1138 ponders updating his server to v4.2...
19:29:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:30:28 * Forked is compiling win32 binary for 4.2
19:32:47 <peter1138> 0.7 is going to rock ;)
19:35:13 <peter1138> michi_cc's PBS implementation
19:35:54 <Sacro> D: OPENTTD HAS NO AUDIO D:
19:36:27 <Sacro> it's probably using ALSA
19:36:49 <peter1138> Something like that
19:37:30 <peter1138> Why are you not using ALSA, anyway?
19:37:35 <Sacro> Audio write: Input/output error
19:37:47 <Sacro> because I have a new X-Fi
19:37:52 <Sacro> which isn't supported by ALSA
19:38:07 <peter1138> And the obsolete and dead OSS does? :o
19:38:11 <Sacro> unless i use the shitty creative "open source" binary, 64 bit, gcc3 only driver
19:38:25 <ben_goodger> actually that explains a lot.
19:38:36 <ben_goodger> I got an x-fi for christmas and couldn't work out why it didn't work
19:38:55 <Sacro> ben_goodger: works pretty well with OSS
19:39:03 <peter1138> All Creative's stuff sucks...
19:39:07 <ben_goodger> I'm not using OSS, not ever
19:39:40 <peter1138> They're good at lying about the hardware capabilities...
19:39:51 <ben_goodger> peter1138: unfortunately my dad spent £60 on it
19:45:28 <ben_goodger> well, I'm still not using OSS. it's tripe
19:46:34 <peter1138> Once upon a time, the OSS SB Live! was better...
19:46:46 <peter1138> Still supports things that ALSA doesn't.
19:47:02 <peter1138> Like modifying a matrix of input to output mapping.
19:47:33 <peter1138> And uploading new software to do new effects
19:47:51 <peter1138> ALSA just does the generic thing with it
19:50:06 <Sacro> what else uses SDL for sound though
19:50:18 <Sacro> can OpenTTD use anything else? like jack, or portaudio?
19:50:56 <SmatZ> SDL can have output to esd
19:51:02 <peter1138> No, there are only SDL, Win32 and Cocoa drivers.
19:51:18 <peter1138> Yeah, I have SDL set up to use pulseaudio.
19:51:43 <Sacro> SmatZ: mmm, and I did just update esd-oss
19:52:03 <Sacro> actually, i might be the official ArchLinux maintainer for that :s
19:52:24 <peter1138> There's an SDL_mixer driver in the works, but that won't help much.
19:53:14 <Sacro> peter1138: what is your SDL_AUDIODRIVER =?
19:58:29 <Sacro> Many SDL games and applications can use PulseAudio. To make them do this, just set & export the variable SDL_AUDIODRIVER="esd"
19:58:41 <blathijs> Pulseaudio is nice :-)
19:58:54 <blathijs> There's also an also plugin that will probably work fine with openttd
19:59:02 <Sacro> blathijs: i don't have alsa
19:59:32 <blathijs> Sacro: You don't have alsa, or you don't have an alsa driver for your sound card?
19:59:50 <blathijs> In the latter case, you could use openttd's alsa interface -> alsa-pulse -> pulse -> oss
19:59:56 <peter1138> Sacro, yeah, pulse supports the esd protocol, but using the driver set to pulse is better
19:59:58 <Sacro> blathijs: i don't have the driver
20:00:18 <blathijs> But, can't openttd just do OSS itself?
20:00:29 <peter1138> <Sacro> Audio write: Input/output error
20:01:22 <blathijs> Meaning your soundcard doesn't work with OSS either, or it is only not working with OpenTTD?
20:03:20 <Sacro> blathijs: no, soundcard is working mostly
20:04:00 <blathijs> You could try using pulse as I described. It has OSS output modules AFAIK
20:08:14 <Sacro> capability is no longer a module
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20:40:21 <Sacro> peter1138: it is working D:
20:42:11 <DorpsGek> dih: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 23 hours, 27 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <Bjarni> knowing this channel I presume some of you will in fact do that o_O
20:42:53 <blathijs> Sacro: Neh, timidty can also use oss as output I think?
20:43:20 <glx> <Sacro> timidity++ needs alsa <-- you need a sound server (esd, alsa, ...) whenever you need concurrent access on sound device
20:44:39 <Sacro> but i don't have alsa...
20:47:50 <Sacro> blathijs: yes, oss out is fine, but it seems to use alsa in
20:49:51 <blathijs> Sacro: Yeah, but openttd can call timidity directly, right?
20:49:54 <blathijs> Or did we remove that?
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20:51:34 <Sacro> blathijs: i'm not sure...
20:52:28 <blathijs> You probably need to put options to timidity in your ./configure call
20:56:48 <Sacro> how do i capture stderr
20:57:08 <Prof_Frink> That redirects it to stdout
20:58:32 <Sacro> but it ain't passing the -Od to timidity i reckon
20:58:47 <Prof_Frink> *** Sacro detected. Refusing to work.
20:59:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12181 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Change: update some documentation.
21:02:13 * Sacro goes to fix it himself D:
21:03:40 <Yorick> Error: it no such channel/nick
21:04:31 <Yorick> Error: *** Sacro detected. Refusing to work.
21:07:39 <Prof_Frink> Yorick: Hmm, who owns DorpsGek?
21:10:08 <Prof_Frink> get him to implement E_SACRO in the bot
21:10:55 <Yorick> we could code that in ottd
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21:12:33 <Sacro> how to pass params to timidity++
21:13:23 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: What if you write a sh one-liner that calls timidity++ with the required options, then tell openttd to call that
21:14:18 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: ooh, i could
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21:49:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12182 /tags/0.6.0-beta4/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release 0.6.0-beta4
21:50:29 <Prof_Frink> Where will we keep the horse?
21:50:33 <XeryusTC> i watch what's going on here for a change and i see beta 4 being released :P
21:50:55 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, there's been quite a lot of changes...
21:51:06 <peter1138> And beta3 was pretty bad...
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21:53:43 <Axamentia> hmm Openttd on scenario editor was using 97% of cpu resources :/
21:55:11 <Axamentia> Nope just running idle in fast foward
21:55:44 <Prof_Frink> Well, fast forward is "as fast as the processor will allow", so that's sensible
21:55:51 <Axamentia> Just a bog standard 0.6.3 install as well as it wasnt one of my patch installs
21:56:18 <Axamentia> Hmm good point, cant think of what its got to process though on scenario editor
21:56:20 <glx> 0.6.0 is not out yet, where did you get 0.6.3 ?
21:56:47 <Axamentia> gah i mean 0.6.0 beta 3
21:57:16 <Axamentia> i know, im using it to create vanilla scenarios
21:58:11 <Axamentia> I have a couple of nightlies and patched versions, Gonozal, that patchpack is good imo ;), but for scenario creation i use bog standard with no grfs
21:59:31 <Gonozal_VIII> well... to create it in an old version is good if you want to have it compatible to different versions
21:59:54 <glx> that's the recommended way
22:00:11 <glx> Axamentia: wait a little and you'll be able to use rivers
22:00:38 <Axamentia> I cant wait to use rivers!
22:00:39 <Gonozal_VIII> rivers are teh kuhls
22:00:51 <Axamentia> I have them in a patched version
22:00:51 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have to wait
22:01:11 <peter1138> Hmm, rivers need GRFs, don't they?
22:01:19 <peter1138> Oh, only too look nicer...
22:01:36 <Gonozal_VIII> they look like canals without
22:01:54 <SmatZ> like water, without canal borders
22:02:04 * SmatZ doesn't have any rivers grf
22:02:13 <Axamentia> But scenarios for general release, no point adding grfs, and extra features, or patches as a lot of people cant fugure out how to compile
22:02:15 * peter1138 does, but doesn't have any rivers...
22:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> <ln-> where can i find 4x03? <- in the usual places
22:02:22 <Gonozal_VIII> there are already rive replacement grfs in the 8bpp replacement topic
22:02:42 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, not a replacement as there's nothing to replace ;p
22:02:47 <Axamentia> Peter, you can build river in scenarios, dont think terragenisis makes rivers yet though
22:03:04 <Gonozal_VIII> ok... valid point
22:03:10 <peter1138> Strangely I know that...
22:03:30 <Gonozal_VIII> no need to ask for mbs permission with them ;-)
22:03:53 <peter1138> And damn it, I have a 20-span wooden bridge... it's too early for faster bridges :(
22:04:07 <Gonozal_VIII> brick viaduct rocks :D
22:04:11 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, is it the one with very straight edges? 'Cos that looked a bit... not as good as MB's...
22:04:38 <Gonozal_VIII> i think there've been different versions
22:04:48 <peter1138> I suppose I should've used ships for this gap, but... ARGH, THERE ARE NO SHIPS EARLY ENOUGH
22:04:56 <Gonozal_VIII> didn't follow the sprites too closely after i started my patchpack thingy
22:05:04 <peter1138> Also two-way transfers don't work...
22:06:29 <Gonozal_VIII> why is there no "do not enter a vehicle that goes to where you came from" rule?
22:07:16 <peter1138> Because nobody wrote that yet... I have thought about it though...
22:11:22 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe with a bit more money I can build an island and have two shorter spans... and signals...
22:12:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12183 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: give a better error message when building road over existing road with vehicle on it, or do not fail at all
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22:17:03 <peter1138> Hmm, only cost a hundred grand...
22:17:25 <Gonozal_VIII> well... you only need to raise 3 water corners
22:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> foundation for the bridge ramp, tile with signal, next bridge ramp
22:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> have space for doubletrack, too
22:19:06 <Gonozal_VIII> i thought 2 first but then i reconsidered^^
22:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> need to be fast, or you have to pay clear cost for the bridge foundation again
22:19:24 <peter1138> i made it double track too...
22:19:42 <peter1138> Yeah, very fast, coast edges are quicker than normal tiles...
22:19:47 <Gonozal_VIII> can't build the bridge that fast
22:20:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> you have pause key ;)
22:20:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> you only need to unpause while starting to build
22:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> and why is it faster? i thought it was just in the regular tile loop
22:21:42 <peter1138> Regular tiles have an extra counter, I believe.
22:22:03 <peter1138> Either that or it's just luck
22:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> i can't really imagine that...
22:24:50 <Gonozal_VIII> clear something... cost is back to normal right after that, rest stays clear
22:25:39 <peter1138> It's a 3 bit counter.
22:25:59 <Gonozal_VIII> 3 bit counter, 2 bit density
22:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> for grass growing, yes, but for flooding?
22:26:32 <Gonozal_VIII> that's not flooding
22:27:00 <Gonozal_VIII> flooding always looked kind of random
22:27:55 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, "On another note, r12180M doesn't load r12141M games (invalid chunk size) :("
22:28:02 <peter1138> Yay for users who can't read :o
22:28:45 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, it's the first version with the saveload stuff that dalestan suggested
22:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> like the miniin system?
22:29:11 <peter1138> Oh, I bet that was fun :o
22:29:41 <peter1138> Still, your users will always expect everything to always work...
22:30:10 <Gonozal_VIII> i give no guarantees at all^^
22:30:25 <Morloth> That's weird, sometimes cars don't get the money after delivering the good. Anyone noticed that before?
22:30:30 <peter1138> Neither do Microsoft.
22:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> Morloth: don't use transfer
22:30:54 <Gonozal_VIII> morloth... daylength?
22:30:59 <Morloth> Eddi|zuHause3: I don't
22:31:03 <Gonozal_VIII> new version of daylength?
22:31:17 <Morloth> Gonozal_VIII: Not sure... I'm running the latest NoAI branch
22:31:53 <Gonozal_VIII> but values < 8 pounds get rounded to 0
22:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> but then you'll need to figure out under which circumstances this occurs
22:32:55 <Morloth> No, just random if I start a map some trucks simply don't get any money
22:33:00 <peter1138> Damn, that's wrong. A 400 passenger train getting a full load... without full load orders, in 1930.
22:33:03 <Morloth> but I check and they have cargo and deliver it
22:33:46 <Morloth> No, just the basic stuff. In this case Coal from mine -> power plant
22:34:02 <Morloth> Wait I'll make a savegame
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22:36:06 <Morloth> k, if you want to check: ftp://83.84.34.49 User: ftp Pass: guest
22:36:16 <Morloth> filename is 'Is_this_a_bug'
22:38:20 * SpComb wonders if OpenTTD supports IPv6
22:38:39 <Gonozal_VIII> you already wondered that some weeks ago
22:42:04 <Morloth> This is weird... The AI in the game does make money when delivering cargo but I don't :(
22:43:22 <Morloth> Oh, wait my bad I placed the road stations to far off :X; Stupid! :P
22:43:52 <blathijs> SpComb: It might, and in any case it shouldn't be too hard to get it to support IPv6
22:43:55 <Gonozal_VIII> you didn't notice that the trucks don't unload?
22:44:14 <SpComb> I need to learn how to use linux's IPv6 API...
22:44:30 <SpComb> (well, generic BSD sockets)
22:44:37 <blathijs> I think it's just the same, perhaps pass some flag here or there
22:44:45 <Morloth> Gonozal_VIII: Well... they did unload
22:45:15 <Morloth> Gonozal_VIII: But at the station it would mark the cargo as 'in transfer'
22:45:24 <Morloth> while the order was 'Unload'
22:46:10 <Morloth> Well, sleepy time for me :)
22:46:13 <Gonozal_VIII> don't use unload orders
22:46:48 <Gonozal_VIII> unload is exactly the same as transfer if the station doesn't accept the stuff
22:51:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12184 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix: take into account possible loan when AI is deciding which bridge to build, so it won't build wooden bridges everytime
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22:56:29 <peter1138> michi_cc, I found a sort of bug :o
22:56:43 <Gonozal_VIII> oh noes, not again
22:57:01 <peter1138> Overbuilding a reserved station platform is allowed.
22:57:10 <Gonozal_VIII> last bugfix came right after i finished including and stuff..
22:57:49 <Gonozal_VIII> had to look through every single line of code... *cries*
23:02:22 * Axamentia is amused that he has to build a flood path, to flood lac leman lol
23:05:03 <fjb> How does the station rating get calculated?
23:05:25 <Gonozal_VIII> in strange and very wrong ways
23:05:53 <Prof_Frink> fjb: first two bytes from /dev/random
23:06:07 <peter1138> Axamentia, or press ctrl to place a sea tile?
23:06:44 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: The manual page is almost empty.
23:06:44 <peter1138> (assuming scenario editor)
23:07:05 <peter1138> station_cmd.cpp:2488
23:08:13 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: I found another page with the search function of the manual wiki. And that one was almost empty.
23:08:20 <Axamentia> i know but flooding and entire lake is not easy, so i figure just flood it and let it do it
23:08:50 <Gonozal_VIII> i just typed "wiki openttd station rating" into the browser adress bar :-)
23:11:21 <fjb> Hm, looks like you have to do constant advertising to get a rating of 75% or higher in the first half of the game when the vehicles are still kind of slow.
23:11:52 <Gonozal_VIII> and buy new vehicles every year^^
23:12:16 <fjb> Hm, on the second thought that doesn't work for most industries because thay are to far away from the town center.
23:13:12 <fjb> I have a constant rating of 69% and the mines from ECS are constantly degrading the output.
23:13:50 <fjb> Buying new vehicles gives a short boost, but some month later the mines get a lower and lower output.
23:14:37 <fjb> But a statue is expensive, especially in the first years of the game.
23:14:57 <Gonozal_VIII> but the only way to get >75%
23:15:30 <fjb> But you can nort afford a statue with your first monay.
23:16:11 <fjb> You have to buy the vehicles, build tracks or roads, build stestations.
23:16:45 <fjb> And then the mines have a low output and you can not get the industry chains started.
23:17:16 <Gonozal_VIII> true, true, everything true
23:18:38 <fjb> You could start with passengers first, but then no industry is left when you have the money for the statues.
23:18:51 <Gonozal_VIII> you can make money with passengers while industries die off all around... then after some years you have enough money to serve the last remaining minimum output industries
23:20:42 <fjb> One of each kind, you can stay in a passenger only game then...
23:21:36 <Gonozal_VIII> it should be possible to set the probability of new industries
23:22:04 <Gonozal_VIII> then you can start without industries and a high possibility for new ones
23:22:40 <fjb> Hm, another patch for the Gonozal patch pack? :-)
23:22:51 <Gonozal_VIII> if you make it^^
23:25:40 <michi_cc> SmatZ: road_cmd.cpp, line 1334 since rev 12177: shouldn't it be (DiagDirToRoadBits(side) & bits) == 0 (with parentheses?)
23:26:26 <Gonozal_VIII> that's almost line 1337 :-)
23:31:40 <fjb> michi_cc: I found two problems with YAPP v4.1 (I will compile v4.2 soon): The trains don't find their depot on a single line track if they don't have an explicit depot order. And trains reversing inside a station don't clear their path inside the station and get stuck in a terminal station that way. Maybe that is already fixed in v4.2.
23:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> afaik & has higher priority than ==, but == is higher than &&
23:34:12 <Gonozal_VIII> && is shortcut thingy, has to be low priority
23:34:33 <SmatZ> michi_cc: thanks, hopefully this is harmless now :)
23:37:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12185 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12177): wrong operator priority, hopefully harmless (spotted by michi_cc)
23:40:40 *** De_Ghost has joined #openttd
23:51:13 *** Gonozal_VIII has joined #openttd
23:55:57 <SpComb> ha, it's taken a while to make it into the international news media
23:56:06 <SpComb> who knows, perhaps one day it'll get on slashdot
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