IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-02-17
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00:00:57 <ln-> is there a scientific term for the phobia of being afraid to touch objects in the fear of static electricity shocks?
00:07:34 <fjb> The combination of YAPP and passenger destination patch makes it a new game.
00:08:36 <Sionide> pax destinations works now?
00:08:58 <ben_goodger> I think that was what annoyed me most about simutrans
00:09:05 <fjb> At least it doesn't crash for me. Didn't test it in a network game yet.
00:09:07 <ben_goodger> does it behave more sensibly than that?
00:09:23 <ln-> what annoys me the most in simutrans is the small size of graphics.
00:10:24 <ben_goodger> the passengers would not get on unless you were running a service to somewhere they wanted to go
00:10:34 <ben_goodger> which made a lot of things very difficult
00:13:01 <fjb> You at least have to build a network. Without that patch you only have to build two airports and get rich in no time.
00:14:39 <ben_goodger> I always thought that air was ridiculously high-cost
00:15:14 <ben_goodger> though I did spend a game on rail once and then purchased a plane that doubled my profit
00:15:45 <ben_goodger> the trouble is that the towns never develop fast enough, and that they do not grow realistically
00:16:15 <Sionide> you can change how fast towns grow though, or you talking simutrans still?
00:16:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> there are now "cities" that grow faster
00:16:57 <ben_goodger> still a problem with growth realism that probably can't be fixed very easily
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00:18:15 <fjb> You can make a town grow faster with a simple trick. Build 5 bus stops and buy a bus that services them.
00:18:21 <ben_goodger> incidentally, how did the name problem get fixed?
00:19:28 <Sionide> more names? i could think of some
00:19:55 <ben_goodger> parkway, for instance, for use a long distance from a town
00:20:18 <ben_goodger> such as bodmin parkway, which is closer to another town on the same line
00:21:10 <ben_goodger> nice town and roads, come to think of it
00:22:09 <fjb> That isn't a planed network. Just three tram lines, a railway mainline and a small branchline to the center of the town.
00:22:43 <fjb> The roads and the buildings are from the north american sets.
00:24:16 <Sionide> the transport stuff in simcity4 rush hour has so much potential to be cool, but it sucks
00:24:35 <Sionide> you can see all the sims routes to work, from their houses, what mode of transport they use
00:24:46 <Sionide> but once you start trying to put any kind of mass transport network in, it's rubbish
00:25:34 <fjb> What happens then? And how do the sims travel?
00:26:18 <ben_goodger> you can either have a huge road network, or they will walk about five tiles
00:26:18 <Sionide> making air pollution and congestion
00:26:33 <fjb> The game is from an US company I guess.
00:26:40 <Sionide> there's various stuff you can do
00:27:03 <ben_goodger> metro networks, buses, rail (I never worked out how to make the rail networks actually do anything), elevated rail are all possible
00:27:18 <Sionide> ben_goodger, think you need to connect rail to neighbour city
00:27:29 <ben_goodger> but they all cost a huge amount, except the buses which are useless
00:27:30 <Sionide> elevated is weird too
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00:33:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> <insert suitible topic transition here>
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00:48:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12165 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1652, FS#1773]: buffer overflow when drawing scrolling news
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00:51:40 <Saladan0> Alot of people in here
00:52:13 <Saladan0> Anyone feel nice enough to help a new guy out?
00:52:55 <maverique> can somebody give me an hint how i can copy the needed files into the openTTD folder under ubuntu linux?
00:54:29 <maverique> i tryed cp, it's not working
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00:55:17 <glx> but you may need to "sudo cp"
00:55:40 <maverique> he alsways says that he skipped the folder where i ahve the files
00:56:12 <maverique> i not shure i am newbie
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00:56:57 <glx> cp /path/to/trg*.grf /path/to/openttd/data
00:57:16 <glx> and don't forget sample.cat :)
00:58:34 <Belugas> Saladan0, ask what you need to know, not if someone can help you ;)
00:59:11 <Saladan0> thats the thing. I dont know what I need to know. I need experience, but none of the multiplayer servers are any help.
00:59:29 <Saladan0> So im forced to come here and hopefully hop in a private game to see how pros play.
01:00:48 <Belugas> i could not help you a lot...
01:01:03 <Belugas> maybe a dev, but not great a player
01:01:09 <Belugas> and even not on MP ;)
01:01:41 <Belugas> but i am not alone in here, as you know. So maybe ANYONE in here could give you a hand ;)
01:01:49 <Belugas> plus, have you read the wiki?
01:02:26 <Belugas> not necesseraly the award winning spot, but usefull stuff in there too
01:02:27 <Sionide> Saladan0, spectate an openttd-coop game :)
01:03:25 <Saladan0> Thats what I want to
01:03:35 <Saladan0> but I need to wait until the chance arrives
01:04:02 <Saladan0> The best case scenario is if somebody in here says "Hey, Im going to host a game, any want to join?"
01:05:55 <maverique> what do i ahve to do to start the game now?
01:11:44 <maverique> what do i ahve to do to start the game now?
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01:17:16 <maverique> error can't open sample.cat
01:18:43 <maverique> he says that it's brocken or not there
01:20:18 <fjb> Do you have the rights to read it?
01:20:50 <maverique> how do i change the rights?
01:21:28 <fjb> How about learning to use your os first?
01:21:59 <Sionide> maverique, don't use console if you don't know what you're doing with it
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01:22:43 <maverique> but i can't change it on gui
01:22:44 <Saladan0> So people often come in here to set up games?
01:23:15 <fjb> Not that often. And most of them know how to use their computer.
01:23:52 <maverique> i am new on linux onb windows that's all easier !!
01:24:13 <Sionide> maverique, it isn't *easier* it's just different.
01:24:20 <Sionide> and it's not even that different
01:24:35 <maverique> well ion linux it tells me i am not allowed to copy files in
01:24:40 <Saladan0> Thanks a bunch Sionide
01:25:00 <Saladan0> Its such a rarity to find helpfull *nice* people these days
01:25:06 <Sionide> Saladan0, that's where i learnt.. partly anyway. partly self-taught, partly just pick stuff up here and there, heh
01:25:59 <maverique> and change rights are also blocked for me
01:26:51 <Sionide> it's because you've installed openttd from the repositories which is just annoying
01:27:14 <Sionide> download a tarball and extract it to somewhere in your home directory and you'll have rights to do stuff like change files
01:27:32 <Sionide> do you want me to tell you the commands to do that?
01:29:15 <Sionide> tar zxvf OTTD-linux-i686-nightly-r12162.tar.gz
01:29:54 <Sionide> do this in your home dir!
01:30:26 <Sionide> tar zxvf OTTD-linux-i686-nightly-r12162.tar.gz
01:31:15 <ln-> for f's sake, you don't have to press enter after every word.
01:31:39 <Sionide> oh, sorry.... just trying to put commands on new lines so it's not too confusing for maverique
01:32:52 <maverique> i ahve it unpacjed in my home folder
01:32:56 <Sionide> cp /path/to/trg*.grf ~/OTTD-linux-i686-nightly-r12162/data
01:33:10 <Sionide> cp /path/to/sample.cat ~/OTTD-linux-i686-nightly-r12162/data
01:33:25 <Sionide> cd ~/OTTD-linux-i686-nightly-r12162
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01:36:14 <ln-> congratulations for this remarkably accurate problem description.
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01:36:51 <maverique> he stuck with the one installed from .deb
01:39:12 <maverique> i removed the over installed one
01:41:34 <Arbitrary> shared library missing?
01:41:56 <maverique> i turned off the machine
01:42:16 <maverique> so i will freez that till i am awake again
01:42:56 <Arbitrary> :(){:|:&};: looking more attractive by the second, death by missing limits.conf
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09:01:23 <Alberth> you guys are talking IRC jargon? Can someone point me to a url to learn more of this secret language? :)
09:02:48 <Alberth> hmm, a flash page :(, not compatible with me
09:03:16 <Gonozal_VIII> no flash? poor you, missing out half of the intarwebs
09:04:25 <Alberth> I haven't yet covered the other half.....
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09:05:37 <Gonozal_VIII> i've read the whole internet! twice!
09:05:52 <Gonozal_VIII> printed it out first :-)
09:06:38 <Gonozal_VIII> for every hyperlink i glued a string between the pages
09:07:05 <Alberth> you bought shares of glue companies first?
09:07:57 <Alberth> how does one convert a Money object to something readable at stdout?
09:08:27 <Gonozal_VIII> afaik money is int
09:09:08 <Alberth> it's a overflow_safe int, but its value is private :(, bad for debugging
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10:26:34 <Gonozal_VIII> money rounding is nogoody
10:26:50 <Gonozal_VIII> there's nothing between 0 and 8 pounds
10:27:11 <Gonozal_VIII> or 0 and 1760 yen...
10:28:14 <Gonozal_VIII> no 7 pounds or lower possible
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10:30:13 <Gonozal_VIII> that together with nappes daylength effects cargo deivery prices means no income at all for short distance bus routes with daylength >17
10:32:34 <Gonozal_VIII> seems to be so ingame, no idea how it is in rl
10:33:46 <Gonozal_VIII> the game seems to calculate money in steps of 8 pounds...
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10:37:36 <Gonozal_VIII> and 8 pounds is 16 euro... that's a bit strange too but doesn't matter
10:41:34 <Tefad> so bitshift money over 3bits?
10:41:56 <Tefad> or is this an artificial quantization
10:42:03 <Tefad> the data types supports full resolution
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10:52:21 <LordAzamath> hmm.. I've got an idea
10:52:59 <LordAzamath> but I need to think how will I draw it
10:55:36 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm extra button for invisible trees?
10:56:08 <LordAzamath> like the one in our patch options
10:56:40 <LordAzamath> invisible trees - on/off
10:57:04 <LordAzamath> but I need to think what it should be
10:57:44 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't really understand...
10:57:56 <Gonozal_VIII> the left button toggles tree invisibility...
10:58:48 <Gonozal_VIII> i mean transparency...
10:58:55 <Gonozal_VIII> left button does that...
10:59:11 <Gonozal_VIII> why not make it a three state button?
10:59:44 <LordAzamath> but still needs another sprite I think..
11:00:08 <Gonozal_VIII> hf drawing invisible^^
11:01:37 <LordAzamath> is the hotkey for transparency in ttdp 'x' too?
11:01:48 <Gonozal_VIII> never played patch
11:02:08 <LordAzamath> need to fire up it through wine then.
11:02:19 <Gonozal_VIII> so they bumped savegame version to 89...
11:04:42 <Gonozal_VIII> completely unrelated to our discussion^^
11:04:49 <LordAzamath> ok brb.. [reboot|windows|install TTDP]
11:05:25 <LordAzamath> it doesn't matter
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11:07:56 <Maedhros> LordAzamath: it's 't' in patch, in case you were still interested
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11:40:25 <foe> How do I host a game with planes turned off?
11:41:12 <foe> max_aircraft = 0 in openttd.cfg?
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12:21:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12166 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp group_gui.cpp viewport.cpp window.cpp): -Fix [FS#337]: when drag&drop mode was cancelled by keyboard input, depot/group window wasn't updated (original patch by GrimRC)
12:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Alberth> it's a overflow_safe int, but its value is private <-- there should be like a "getValue" function
12:30:40 <Alberth> Eddi: Hmm, maybe this one? "FORCEINLINE operator int64 () const { return this->m_value; }"?
12:31:45 <Alberth> My C++ knowledge about templated classes is terrible atm
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12:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, then just cast it to int64
12:46:00 <Alberth> Ah, it's a function-call operator, "money_needed()" was the solution.... I was looking for some get(), a << operator
12:46:20 <Alberth> No need to cast it though (or maybe the 'int64' should be 'T'?)
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12:53:50 <maverique> after a big cup of sleep now OpenTTD si working on my Ubuntu!
12:54:09 <maverique> thx to the person who agve me the hint on the unix command
12:54:54 <Gonozal_VIII> sleeping fixes compatibility problems? cool
12:55:25 <maverique> atleast mind problems
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14:08:08 <maverique> ha and now i have internet on my ubuntu ^^
14:08:18 <LordAzamath> comments please? :P
14:08:34 <LordAzamath> maverique: It's really not that hard ^^
14:09:11 <maverique> yea over LAN it's just easy
14:09:17 <maverique> Wfif is really hards
14:09:53 <LordAzamath> I have wifi configured here
14:10:10 <maverique> well i ahve a CX100
14:13:40 <SmatZ> Yorick: you need only one T, because both T are the same
14:14:29 <LordAzamath> and I didn't bother to make those R etc. signs too
14:14:35 <LordAzamath> which aren't used anymore
14:15:03 <LordAzamath> TRANSPORT TYCOON DELUXE and OPENTTD
14:15:17 <LordAzamath> a lot less letters :P
14:16:20 <peter1138> I think they're a bit dull, to be honest.
14:17:09 <LordAzamath> the original ones are too
14:17:58 <LordAzamath> ok.. the orgiinal ones have more contrast
14:18:09 <LordAzamath> and orange not green background
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14:33:06 <LordAzamath> anyone got any idea how to replace sprites from trgir.grf?
14:34:38 <Gonozal_VIII> which one is that?
14:35:14 <LordAzamath> ahh I think I figured out how :)
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15:25:37 <LordAzamath> hmm can anyone give me quick hint where are the cargo icons used?
15:25:45 <LordAzamath> I just want to see how they look in-game
15:26:23 <LordAzamath> and when I don't have stations?
15:27:23 <LordAzamath> and no, station list doesn't show cargo icons
15:29:28 <LordAzamath> even refit list doesn't show them...
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15:31:35 <LordAzamath> station window that is :)
15:31:43 * LordAzamath looked to sprites.h
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15:41:50 <DorpsGek> dih: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 18 hours, 28 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <Bjarni> besides spelled in a stupid way
15:43:17 <peter1138> What do you need him for?
15:43:44 <peter1138> LordAzamath, that's a good idea though...
15:44:12 <LordAzamath> what's a good idea?
15:44:18 <peter1138> <LordAzamath> even refit list doesn't show them...
15:45:52 <UnderBuilder> one thing I don't like about the 2x2/3x3 road placement is that each city's roads are disalligned one each other
15:46:19 <dih> peter1138: he wants some documentation from me
15:46:28 <dih> which i mailed to him, just want his feedback
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15:48:42 <LordAzamath> UnderBuilder: I have thought of making a suggestion for it :D
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15:52:48 <Gonozal_VIII> uhglee owned land
15:54:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think the road grids can be fully synchronised
15:54:36 <LordAzamath> Eddi|zuHause2: why not?
15:54:37 <Gonozal_VIII> only if you base town start positions on road layout setting
15:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> the only way to achieve that would be to disallow certain coordinates
15:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> the town center must be on a road tile
15:55:05 <Gonozal_VIII> but you can change road layout during the game
15:59:50 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm you could restrict town center positions to every 12th tile... then the grids would always match with 2*2 and 3*3
16:00:29 <LordAzamath> erm.. why not every 6th?
16:00:54 <Gonozal_VIII> distance of the roads is 3 and 4
16:01:37 <LordAzamath> I was confuzed by 2x2 and 3x3 althought they really should be3x3 and 4x4
16:01:45 <LordAzamath> because it's road layout
16:01:57 <LordAzamath> not free space layout
16:02:19 <Ammller> Has someone already done a "little update" for no industry closing?
16:02:32 <Ammller> I meant a little GRF :)
16:05:29 <Ammller> hmm, is that possible anyway, or only appearing?
16:06:23 <Gonozal_VIII> you could set the protection period to maximum i guess...
16:06:42 <Gonozal_VIII> but i know nothing about newgrf industry stuff
16:07:03 <LordAzamath> hmm.. I'm looking at that stuff atm..
16:09:54 <Ammller> I would like to use it on a Pass only game
16:10:23 <Gonozal_VIII> why would it matter there if industries close down?
16:10:33 <Ammller> or on coop games, we talking about 50 years until we beginn with building, so most industries are gone then
16:11:22 <Ammller> Gonozal_VIII: there are 2 things: closing and appearing
16:12:15 <Ammller> specially if you like to play a special scenario, you like to have the industries there where set.
16:17:06 <LordAzamath> hmm.. I didn't find that
16:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> the ECS grfs set a 5 year protection period for industry closing
16:19:12 <Ammller> Eddi|zuHause2: is this "protection" set in general or per industry?
16:19:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd assume per industry
16:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> i also assume it's a callback, so you could react on any kind of event...
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16:41:19 <Gonozal_VIII> what is gitignore?
16:41:46 <Ammller> git is an other Version management tool
16:42:06 <Ammller> Linux Kernel is developing with it
16:43:07 <Gonozal_VIII> and what is gitignore?
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17:01:01 <peter1138> It's a list of filenames to ignore.
17:01:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12167 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Feature(tte): change colour of autorail and autoroad selection when Ctrl is pressed
17:01:55 <Yorick> you mean it becomes red on removing-mode?
17:02:28 <LordAzamath> hmm.. is there a hotkey for auto-road?
17:05:27 <LordAzamath> because even now, I don't use autorail to get building rails, but to open rail toolbar
17:05:46 <LordAzamath> eg. if I want to place depots or stuff
17:06:23 <LordAzamath> And it kinda disturbs that I can't do it with road stuff
17:06:28 <peter1138> SmatZ, nice patch ;)
17:07:40 <LordAzamath> and shift+f8 isn't kinda... quick way to get to raoad toolbar...
17:08:21 <Gonozal_VIII> f stuff is hard to find
17:08:43 <Gonozal_VIII> the light of the screen isn't very bright up there...
17:09:21 <LordAzamath> hmm.. what's ctrl+a used now?
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17:23:15 <Morloth> Does someone know about any code guidelines put up especially for the NoAI branch?
17:23:43 <Morloth> I'm wondering because all methods in the API are static (or at least should be), is this the it's ment to be?
17:24:01 <Morloth> *is this the way it's ment to be?*
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17:27:45 <glx> Morloth: I think it's needed for interfacing in squirrel
17:28:38 <Morloth> glx: You mean squirrel can't cope with non-static functions?
17:29:41 <Ammller> I got accidentially to this channel on freenode
17:29:58 <glx> binding in squirrel is done with things like SQAIAbstractList.DefSQMethod(engine, &AIAbstractList::Clear, "Clear", 1, "x");
17:30:00 <Ammller> there are about 5-10 users there
17:30:25 <Ammller> topic: This unofficial channel is available as needed. Please consult the project website for its official IRC location. Thank you for using freenode!
17:30:34 <Morloth> Ammller: I know, have been there ;)
17:31:49 <Morloth> glx: But is there going to be a problem -say- when I try to add new non-static functions to the AI API?
17:32:29 <glx> but I think it doesn't work
17:32:48 <Morloth> k, I was just curious :)
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17:54:05 <Morloth> glx: Will you have time to review another patch?
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18:07:01 <Morloth> K, wait up I'll post it for you
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18:15:14 <Morloth> That's odd... Let me try again
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18:17:22 <Morloth> That's weird, I can attach files for some reason...
18:18:32 <Morloth> If I try to do it, Flyspray tries to return to the main page but only shows the title bar and only my message without the attachment is posted...
18:19:08 <Morloth> Could it be some kind of virus scanner or something that's blocking that content?
18:19:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12168 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Fix: behave a bit better when 'R' is pressed during rail station dragging
18:20:31 <SmatZ> I think there appears a file with zero size when it is out of disk space
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18:56:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
19:04:31 <DorpsGek> Roujin: Gonozal_VIII was last seen in #openttd 2 minutes and 23 seconds ago: <Gonozal_VIII> bjarni!
19:05:31 <Roujin> hey, would you be so kind as to read my post in your patchpack thread and reply? ;)
19:05:52 <Roujin> michi_cc cheers @ new yapp version :)
19:06:30 <peter1138> But damn this laptop being so slow ;(
19:06:39 <Roujin> sorry for butting in like this xD
19:06:50 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have to ask for that ;-)
19:06:51 * peter1138 was coding a new feature but has stopped that for this ;p
19:07:18 <Gonozal_VIII> but maybe you should use the version i made half an hour ago^^
19:07:18 <michi_cc> oh noes, I'm hindering OpenTTD development :)
19:07:41 <Roujin> well I wanted to ask because it seemed rude for me to just do that without asking you ;)
19:07:58 <Roujin> Gonozal: which revision would that be?
19:08:35 <Roujin> so that's not uploaded yet, but you will soon i guess?
19:08:36 <peter1138> But that wouldn't be the latest version of YAPP...
19:09:08 <Gonozal_VIII> i'm not talking about yapp, i'm talking about roujins patches
19:09:34 <Roujin> if you want to upgrade to 12168 and include latest YAPP before releasing a new version of your pack, please do so
19:09:46 <Roujin> don't hurry because of me ;)
19:09:46 *** Diabolic-Angel has quit IRC
19:09:53 <Gonozal_VIII> soon is relative, i'm just updating and testing all the patches... have to check the new yapp too ofcourse
19:10:23 <Gonozal_VIII> i'll pm it to you
19:10:33 <peter1138> Bonus, I've just been given some warm flapjack...
19:10:45 *** Diabolic-Angel has joined #openttd
19:10:46 * Roujin googles for flapjack oO
19:11:04 * Roujin guesses it's something M-rated
19:11:55 <Roujin> A flapjack can be a kind of hydraulic machine, and it is also a reference to a professional wrestling throw.
19:11:55 <Roujin> A flapjack is also a derogatory term for a person from an indistinguishable country of origin.
19:12:22 <Gonozal_VIII> now where's the attachement gone to...
19:12:38 * Roujin guesses peter has just been given a warm professional wrestling throw.
19:13:11 <Gonozal_VIII> you've got mail roujin
19:13:33 <Bjarni> Roujin: thanks for a pointless highlight :/
19:13:58 <Gonozal_VIII> see, not pointless :-)
19:14:08 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: !thanks for a pointless highlight
19:14:16 <peter1138> Somehow Roujin's google is broken.
19:14:22 <Gonozal_VIII> [20:13:51] <Gonozal_VIII> bjarni. <-- point!
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19:15:16 <Roujin> gonozal: your message may have contained too few characters, but the attachment was very enjoyable. Thank you ;)
19:15:21 <Gonozal_VIII> now to revert all the stuff belugas changed in unmovable cmd...
19:15:54 <peter1138> Ah, the signal GUI understands PBS now :D
19:16:10 <Roujin> what? what i wrote was on the wiki page for flapjack, just after the normal meaning, under "Other usage"....
19:16:21 <Yorick> it did before, peter1138
19:16:22 <Roujin> what's wrong with that? :P
19:16:37 <peter1138> Yorick, maybe I only tested it with version 1...
19:17:01 <Morloth> *noob question*: What does PBS stand for? I read it everywhere and everybody is very excited about it... But what is it!? :)
19:17:37 <Bjarni> Yorick: you should get your space key checked. It seems to be broken
19:17:59 <Yorick> no, PBS is written without spaces...
19:18:31 <Yorick> since its called "PBS"
19:18:36 <Bjarni> I thought we agreed to stick to a non corrupted way of writing English in the game :s
19:19:16 <Bjarni> DB = Deutsche Bahn, not DeutscheBahn
19:19:28 <Jacy> Yorick, what's the point of leaving the spaces out?
19:19:36 <Roujin> it makes signalling more intuitive for new players that don't understand presignals, and makes all knowledge OpenTTD gurus have about presignals obsolete :P
19:19:45 <Yorick> having to write less spaces, Jacy :-P
19:19:49 <Bjarni> he wants to butcher a perfectly fine language
19:20:18 <peter1138> Roujin, and it rocks...
19:20:24 <Bjarni> I can understand Asian people having problems with spaces but Yorick...
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19:20:27 <peter1138> Bjarni, that's okay, you manage it too.
19:20:45 <Yorick> I wanted to answer before anyone else did :>
19:21:27 <Roujin> doesn't mean i don't like pbs, i just wrote a true statement ;)
19:21:50 <Bjarni> peter1138: you know I write full words only and max one word between each set of whitespace
19:24:16 <LordAzamath> but instead you have conversations about whitespace :S
19:24:36 <LordAzamath> that explains everything
19:24:56 <LordAzamath> I thought you were a bot
19:25:35 <LordAzamath> ok whatever :D, but comments?
19:25:48 <Yorick> I'm a bot, remember, I can't comment
19:27:04 <Roujin> hmm.. don't really know what to say - looks well to me but i'm not a graphic expert ;)
19:27:50 <Roujin> it just gave me the idea that the four icons could show the same scenery, just in their respective flavor
19:28:28 <Roujin> don't know if this would look nice or boring ingame though...
19:28:44 <LordAzamath> I had the same idea, but I think too, it'd look boring in-game...
19:32:48 <Bjarni> we need to fix that bot
19:33:26 <Yorick> Error: not enough arguments, expected 1, got 2
19:35:04 <Yorick> Error: not enough arguments, expected 1, got 2
19:35:12 <Bjarni> !fix Yorick right away
19:35:15 <Yorick> Error: not enough arguments, expected 1, got 3
19:35:24 <Yorick> Error: not enough arguments, expected 1, got 0
19:35:39 <Yorick> Error: unknown command
19:35:49 <Bjarni> this is not going to work
19:35:55 <Yorick> Error: what? no nick/channel
19:35:59 <peter1138> !fix it for me, jim?
19:36:00 <Bjarni> luckily I have another idea
19:36:13 * Bjarni takes Yorick to the vet to get it fixed
19:36:21 <Yorick> Error: you can't take a bot
19:37:08 <Bjarni> you would have wished for the needles afterwards though
19:37:38 <Yorick> Error: you no nick/channel
19:37:38 <Bjarni> Yorick: you have a degrading influence on the channel
19:37:55 <Yorick> success: fixed __self__
19:38:05 <ben_goodger> actually __self__ calls the bot, not me
19:38:32 <Yorick> one must say: !def __self__
19:38:47 <Bjarni> #define __self__ Yorick
19:38:56 <Yorick> __self__ set to ben_goodger
19:39:19 <Yorick> Success: fixed ben_goodger
19:39:54 <Bjarni> ben_goodger: I hope you can explain your future wife that you can't have children due to an IRC bot error
19:40:19 <peter1138> So, yes, useful stuff...
19:40:45 <Bjarni> either you guys shut up, talk seriously or I'm out of here
19:41:17 <Yorick> Error: shutup unknown command
19:41:38 <Roujin> hmm, i guess i should bump the savegame version with my traffic lights patch...
19:41:39 <ben_goodger> I don't intend to be married or reproduce. I think it's ecologically irresponsible
19:41:51 <ben_goodger> Roujin: traffic lights?
19:42:23 <Roujin> if loading a game saved with it with trunk, the tile owner is shown as "someone" <-- i find that funny ^^
19:42:54 <Roujin> ben_goodger: check my thread in the development forum ;) no release yet though, just some screenshots...
19:43:52 <peter1138> ben_goodger, marriage is ecologically irresponsible? :o
19:44:01 <LordAzamath> !get_sleep LordAzamath
19:44:08 <Roujin> I hope I didn't break anything by using the m1 bits 5-7 for my traffic lights :P
19:44:27 <Yorick> Success: set LordAzamath.mode to sleep
19:44:30 <Bjarni> peter1138: I think it means in his case not generally
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19:44:43 <ben_goodger> it's a very large amount of wasted time and money. _reproduction_ is ecologically irresponsible :P
19:44:48 <peter1138> Bjarni, ah... well I've nothing against gay people.
19:44:49 <Bjarni> and I think he mainly meant reproduction
19:46:29 <Bjarni> ben_goodger: the Chinese government would love your point of view
19:46:42 <ben_goodger> they share it, in fact
19:47:41 <ben_goodger> britain is not yet nearly as overpopulated, but we face a similar problem. house prices are due to increase by 180% in the next two years, and we need to find 10 million new homes by 2020 to fit everyone in
19:48:10 <Bjarni> then why not just close the boarders so the problem will go away?
19:48:39 <ben_goodger> because then we'd be no better than the chinese used to be
19:49:36 <ben_goodger> I don't have a point
19:50:10 <peter1138> "find 10 million new homes" ... are they buried then?
19:50:33 <Gonozal_VIII> austrias population doesn't increase, it's been the same for decades
19:50:40 <ben_goodger> well, actually my point is that we need to build 10 million houses in the next decade to cope with increases in population, and that this is bad but no sensible solution presents itself
19:51:00 <ben_goodger> Gonozal_VIII: australia presumably doesn't have millions of eastern europeans flocking to it to do the crap jobs
19:51:14 <Bjarni> ben_goodger: I just told you one but it looks like you decided to ignore it
19:51:16 <Gonozal_VIII> austria, not australia :P
19:51:46 <ben_goodger> Bjarni: I didn't ignore it, I said it was as bad as the chinese government's former policies
19:52:03 <Gonozal_VIII> most foreigners per native bla in europe
19:52:47 <Bjarni> ben_goodger: I fail to see what you mean
19:53:28 <Bjarni> it's your country. You should be able to say "I don't want you to move in here because we don't have room for you"
19:53:41 <ben_goodger> we should be able to, yes
19:53:50 <Bjarni> I didn't mean closed boarders like North Korea
19:54:06 <ben_goodger> unfortunately, we need this influx of labour
19:55:23 <ben_goodger> anyway, I need to get back to work on my thermoelectrics project
19:55:25 <Bjarni> either that or start to consider why you need more labour than earlier even though you have machines to do many of the labour demanding tasks
19:55:40 <ben_goodger> we don't need more labour than before
19:55:49 <Bjarni> then why do you need to import it?
19:56:09 <ben_goodger> the problem is that the pakistanis we imported in the 50s all have children with degrees now, and they're getting decent jobs
19:56:24 <peter1138> Nobody wants to be a plumber these days...
19:56:36 <Roujin> if i may butt in this .. eh.. interesting discussion about politics; does maybe someone know if there's a svn .diff highlighter for the editor ConTEXT?
19:56:48 <ben_goodger> peter1138: precisely
19:57:27 <Bjarni> so importing a plumber who will not make his children plumbers will solve the problem?
19:57:37 <Bjarni> it sounds like it's a short sighted solution
19:57:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it delays the problem to the next generation
19:57:59 <ben_goodger> well, it will probably take a few decades for the problem to reoccur
19:57:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's how all western communities work
19:58:07 <ben_goodger> but yes, it's incredibly shortsighted
19:58:14 <ben_goodger> unfortunately, nobody seems to have any better ideas
19:58:19 <Roujin> okay, let me rephrase that. Is someone who is using ConTEXT in possession of a .svn diff highlighter for it and might tell me where he got it from because I was unable to find one myself?
19:58:45 <Roujin> better now, eddi?.. :P
19:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have never heard of an editor named ConTEXT
19:58:52 <Bjarni> Roujin: I didn't ignore you, I just don't know the answer :/
19:59:03 <Bjarni> due to the same reason as Eddi|zuHause2
20:00:13 <Bjarni> <ben_goodger> unfortunately, nobody seems to have any better ideas <-- that shouldn't be that hard
20:00:35 <ben_goodger> seems to be quite hard
20:00:39 <Bjarni> if you got the guts to rule
20:00:47 <ben_goodger> the governments have been failing to correct it for some time
20:00:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, germany has other kind of population problems
20:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> the academics people have too little growth
20:01:18 *** pm_away has joined #openttd
20:01:27 <Bjarni> they all use a timescale that goes from now to the next election
20:01:30 *** pm_away is now known as planetmaker
20:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the uneducated people relying on social welfare reproduce like rabbits
20:01:58 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: solution: stop longtime social welfare
20:02:46 <peter1138> ben_goodger, well the governments are still obsessed with getting 99% of the kids into university...
20:03:16 <Roujin> assumption: the educated people have forgotten over their studies how to reproduce
20:03:21 <ben_goodger> not as obsessed as you would think
20:03:24 <Bjarni> that can only be possible if you lower the quality of the universities enough to allow everybody
20:03:26 <Roujin> solution: teach the educated people how to reproduce
20:05:10 <Bjarni> Roujin: the solution would be to cut social welfare and use the saved money for making the financial situation for high educated people better so they can afford to get children
20:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: here, they are trying to get the people to go to university, but they also butcher the finance of these universities
20:06:31 <ben_goodger> none of this solves the housing problem, incidentally.
20:06:45 <ben_goodger> but I must get back to work on my thermoelectrics project.
20:06:51 <ben_goodger> see you later-ish
20:06:51 <Bjarni> also we need to get away from the red economy model where everybody has to get such a high salary that it's better for a university professor to take time off to spend a long time setting up say a toilet than to pay a professional to do so
20:07:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> housing problems? we have 50% empty living space
20:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> we did have housing problems, but they magically solved themselves in 1989
20:08:03 <Bjarni> I mean the time needed to work to pay the paycheck of the professional is like 5-10 hours. It could take say 2 for an untrained guy to set it up meaning it's faster to do it yourself
20:08:16 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
20:08:23 <Bjarni> btw I didn't make up this example
20:08:39 <Bjarni> and it's not about toilets only
20:08:49 <Bjarni> doors, windows and everything like that
20:10:21 <ln-> welll what can you expect from a species descending from telephone sanitizers.
20:11:42 <Bjarni> what is telephone sanitizers?
20:14:46 <ln-> a person who sanitizes telephones, of course.
20:15:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12169 /trunk/src/sound.cpp:
20:15:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change [FS#1696]: play sounds when there is only small part of tile/vehicle visible too (original idea by Dominik)
20:15:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: It improves the game appearance when playing with very small screen resolution
20:15:52 <ln-> i'm guessing Bjarni is currently in transition from W-T to F.
20:15:58 <Bjarni> no... google define: didn't make sense of it either
20:16:53 <Prof_Frink> ln-: And hairdressers
20:19:08 <ln-> yes, hairdressers and management consultants should not be forgotten.
20:24:21 *** Axamentia has joined #openttd
20:26:43 <ln-> anyway, 20:56 -!- Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46c2b.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:02 < Gonozal_VIII> bjarni! 21:02 < Yorick> Bjarni!
20:28:00 *** Axmentia666 has joined #openttd
20:28:20 <Prof_Frink> for name in *; do echo ${name}!; done
20:28:30 <Yorick> Axmentia666! wait...I don't know you
20:28:47 <Yorick> Prof_Frink: just say @seen * and it will be executed...sort off
20:28:57 <ln-> Bjarni: you know, if you idled here 24/7, you could come and go without your join being celebrated like the second coming of Bjarni every time.
20:29:34 <Prof_Frink> Also, you could use a superior client.
20:30:04 <peter1138> People celebrate Bjarni's return? :o
20:30:10 <Axmentia666> maybe you dont yorick lol
20:30:41 <Yorick> Axmentia666! (wait-I don't know him...)
20:33:01 *** Axmentia666 is now known as Axamentia
20:35:53 <ben_goodger> ln-: I think there were also marketing analysts
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20:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> never trust a statistics that you did not fake yourself
20:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's the first thing they teach you ;)
20:48:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
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21:13:53 <Bjarni> now you all the time until tomorrow to prepare celebrating me again
21:14:22 <Bjarni> knowing this channel I presume some of you will in fact do that o_O
21:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, it's 1984 an i have a E16 that is still good for over 20 years...
21:28:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12170 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Fix: do not draw trees along road and street lights under low bridges (spotted by _minime_)
21:31:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, E16 was constructed like in the mid 20's
21:31:16 <Roujin> i also spotted this short time ago
21:31:27 <Roujin> sorry eddi, but i meant the commit :P
21:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> sorry Roujin, i meant Gonozal_VIII :p
21:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> PS: i spotted that quite a while ago, but it didn't bother me enough
21:32:32 <Roujin> time for me to get some food, so i'm away for now ^_^
21:32:58 *** Roujin is now known as Roujin|away
21:44:45 <Mwa> I was just wondering, what are Transmitters, and can I remove them in any way?
21:45:08 <Gonozal_VIII> radio, tv, cell phone stuff...
21:45:12 <Gonozal_VIII> can't remove them
21:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> like lighthouses, their only purpose is to annoy the player ;)
21:48:13 <Mwa> Curses. There's one that is only just stopping me from making an intercontinental airport
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21:57:06 <Gonozal_VIII> those 10000000 newlines at the end of main_gui.cpp and rail_gui.cpp keep confusing tortoise, can't somebody remove them? please...
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22:25:48 <Mwa> airports should be rotatable. >:
22:36:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: i think it's something wrong at your end
22:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> like mixup between different line endings or something
22:37:57 <glx> the main problem is tortoise :)
22:44:38 <Gonozal_VIII> no eddi... happens with all patches that change those files
22:45:05 <glx> only with tortoise, so the problem is tortoise
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22:54:40 <Morloth> Hmmz... are some devs online ATM? I notice there are some functions I need for my AI (like getting the cost to build a certain vehicle), which are online declared in *.cpp files. I can't include them so I can't use them right now.
22:55:10 <Morloth> Would it be possible to declare all functions in the roadveh_cmd / aircraft_cmd / etc. in seperate header files?
22:55:33 <peter1138> Isn't getting cost a command function?
22:56:34 <Morloth> well, I could go into 'test mode', build what I want and check how much money it cost me. But I figured it would be cleaner to ask it directly instead of simulating it
22:57:40 <peter1138> The old AIs use DC_QUERY_COST, I suspect NoAIs should too, but I know pretty much nothing about NoAI...
22:58:25 <Morloth> nn peter1138, thx for your comments :)
22:59:25 <NukeBuster> anyone here with some experience with linking object files?
23:01:13 <Morloth> NukeBuster: Some, not an awfull lot :)
23:04:29 <NukeBuster> Also the compile command for map.o
23:04:38 *** Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
23:08:50 <Morloth> (not to familiar with g++), but shouldn't you use 'ld' for linking?
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23:09:50 <NukeBuster> not sure... it says ld returned exit status
23:09:59 <Morloth> Yeah, that's kinda odd...
23:10:03 <NukeBuster> so i guess g++ uses ld to link
23:11:18 <Morloth> but what happens if you try: 'ld -L/usr/local/lib -o te map.o calender.o client.o client_reactions.o themes.o gridarray.o exco.o gui.o renderer.o render_page.o server.o task.o main.o' ?
23:13:09 <NukeBuster> map.o: file not recognized: File format not recognized
23:14:33 <Morloth> try 'ls -al map.o'. How big is that file?
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23:15:16 <NukeBuster> 11133760 feb 18 00:00 map.o
23:17:23 <Morloth> I don't really know what goes wrong, have you tried cleaning all your objects and recompiling?
23:17:35 <NukeBuster> yes, several times...
23:17:46 <NukeBuster> could it be because of libraries not included?
23:19:13 <Morloth> look ok to me, although I don't know all the options you've included...
23:19:22 <Morloth> but then again, never used OGRE :)
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23:20:46 <NukeBuster> well you'll have to talk to Uzurpator about that... I'm just trying to port the code so it compiles with gcc
23:21:53 <Morloth> Well I don't see any errors in your compile / link lines to be honest
23:23:13 <Morloth> although you don't need al the -I options during linking
23:23:22 <Morloth> but that shouldn't cause this problem...
23:26:34 <Morloth> but are all object files bad?
23:26:48 <NukeBuster> I have tried changing the order but then the next in line is bad
23:27:05 <Morloth> So client.o gives the same error?
23:27:24 <Morloth> but then with client.o nog being recognized?
23:38:27 <Morloth> ok, try renaming all your objectfiles from *.o to *.obj
23:38:30 <Morloth> see if it works that way
23:44:34 <NukeBuster> it's not linking yet
23:45:11 <NukeBuster> nou compiling the last obj
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23:46:21 *** Gonozal is now known as Gonozal_VIII
23:48:48 <Morloth> Net zo makkelijk toch? ;)
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23:53:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i still have not connected half the map...
23:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i only have very few towns
23:53:55 <Audigex> that my ping to my FTP server
23:54:07 <Audigex> and my seek time on my laptop hard drive
23:54:12 <Audigex> is an average of 12ms
23:54:21 <Audigex> i can access my FTP server
23:54:24 <Audigex> faster then my hard drive
23:54:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> seek time != transfer speed
23:54:52 <Audigex> i was about to revolutionise the world of electronics
23:55:03 <Audigex> "Just put all your shit on my FTP server"
23:55:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, go do that
continue to next day ⏵
