IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-02-05
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00:31:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12063 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup: use C++ indenting and variable scope/declaration in BuildTownHouse()
00:33:31 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm using that pbs is not easy
00:34:09 <Gonozal_VIII> but it's easy to create deadlocks and crashs :-)
00:36:59 <SmatZ> Sacro: how? clean trunk?
00:37:19 <Gonozal_VIII> too many signals... deadlock
00:37:26 <Gonozal_VIII> not enough signals... fireball^^
00:37:45 <Sacro> Brianetta will recall my 8 train pileup
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00:39:47 <Gonozal_VIII> stupid disconnects
00:41:17 <Gonozal_VIII> as far as i can tell the patch works like intended
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00:59:20 <Sacro> michi_cc: neither of your diffs work
00:59:44 <glx> if it works for Gonozal_VIII, it should work for you Sacro
00:59:57 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't work with tortoise
00:59:57 <Sacro> glx: he didn't do it from svn root for a start
01:00:03 <Sacro> looks like he used it in src/
01:00:14 <Gonozal_VIII> works from source
01:00:42 <Gonozal_VIII> cd C:\OpenTTD\test\source
01:00:42 <Gonozal_VIII> patch -p1 < C:\OpenTTD\test\yapp_r12062_v3.patch
01:01:43 <Gonozal_VIII> but i made a patch with tortoise afterwards out of the result, should i upload that?
01:07:50 <Sacro> will it compile in VS2005
01:08:24 <Gonozal_VIII> no idea... compiles fine with mingw, first version didn't
01:16:08 <DaleStan> DJ-Nekkid: I still don't understand why you're anding the low byte of var 40 with 0xBB.
01:16:42 <glx> I think he doesn't know what he's doing
01:17:54 <DaleStan> Well, I figured that, but I'm hoping that question will make him notice that he's not doing what he thinks he's doing.
01:18:27 <glx> I don't even know if he read the docs
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04:49:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12064 /trunk/src/ (bridge.h newgrf.cpp table/bridge_land.h tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Codechange : Give grf bridges their own ResetBridges function, and put bridge spec in table/bridge_land.h, where it should be.
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05:00:03 <Gonozal_VIII> what did you frag up?
05:00:42 <Belugas> forgotten to remove a declaration
05:01:26 <Gonozal_VIII> when removing stuff, always search the source if it's used anywhere else :-)
05:02:01 <Gonozal_VIII> got a 4 bit system for storing ground type now
05:03:04 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't offer fancy new stuff like my 6 or 7 bit system but covers the stuff we have now
05:04:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12065 /trunk/src/bridge.h: -Codechange : removed a now useless declaration ( orig_bridge )
05:21:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12066 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
05:21:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Rename GetBridge for the more common GetBridgeSpec
05:21:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Remove direct access to the _bridge table in favor of the above mentioned GetBridgeSpec
05:21:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Rationalize the use of Bridge type pointer
05:22:02 <Gonozal_VIII> you weren't joking when you said you had some new bridge stuff
05:23:13 <Belugas> but not anymore for tonight...
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09:52:34 <Sacro`> peter1138: does it work?
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09:53:13 <peter1138> Takes a bit of getting used to.
09:53:20 <Sacro> what are the odds of it getting trunk'd?
09:53:29 <Gekz> peter1138: have you translated it yet?
09:54:47 * Sacro is bored of this lecture
09:54:59 <Sacro> useage of the "static" keyword
09:55:17 <Sacro> he should really be using const on those keywords
09:56:46 <valhallasw> Sacro: don't do drugs^H^H^H^H^H^H CS classes :p
09:57:25 <Sacro> valhallasw: they aren't so bad, jsut a tad early in the morning
09:57:45 <peter1138> You never said I had to tell you.
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10:01:58 <Gekz> peter1138: ... yes I did.
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10:19:03 <peter1138> Still get some train crashes :(
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10:34:32 <DirtYiCE> what? a third person?! am I at right place?
10:40:24 <hylje> i heard spart-- Rubidium was right around the corner
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10:51:11 <peter1138> No, *I'm* Rubidium and so is my wife!
10:52:02 <De_ghosty> Why you lying to me
10:53:52 <peter1138> Ah ha, occasionally a train will go the wrong way up a double-track section and not reverse stuff.
10:55:34 <Sacro> peter1138: hehe, how amusing
10:57:13 <peter1138> michi_cc, there is a problem with lost trains
10:57:44 <peter1138> michi_cc, they enter stations which are already occupied
10:57:47 <Noldo_> they don't reserve anything?
10:58:10 <peter1138> (and quite possibly other things)
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11:29:47 <peter1138> Password change policies.
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11:57:47 <peter1138> michi_cc, michi_cc, michi_cc
11:58:12 <yorick> why are you highlighting mihi_cc?
12:01:29 <yorick> I think I'm going to play with the YAPP a bit
12:02:27 <peter1138> Gah, no #ifndef in c# :(
12:02:54 <yorick> does the path reservation callback for newstations work with it?
12:03:10 <peter1138> There is no path reservation callback for newstations.
12:03:40 <yorick> how does industrial stations renewal open and close its sheds in ttdpatch then?
12:03:56 <peter1138> It uses the path reservation status.
12:04:10 <yorick> still, does that work with YAPP?
12:08:45 <yorick> what's that thing for?
12:12:00 <yorick> the case 0x44: return 2; // PBS status
12:23:46 <Forked> make one cool thing and everybody is all over you constantly :)
12:33:00 <Tron_> peter1138: #if !$IDENTIFER
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12:36:53 <Tron> ECMA-334 §9.5 for all available preprocessing stuff
12:37:20 <yorick> the YAPP seems to work
12:37:31 <yorick> better than I could ever imagine
12:38:10 <peter1138> it is a little reduced from what is available with cpp
12:38:19 <peter1138> "seeming" to work is not enough
12:38:48 <yorick> if it would restore savegame compat
12:39:13 <peter1138> It can load savegames fine.
12:39:29 <yorick> but saving and loading with normal isn't going to work?
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12:57:49 <Noldo> SmatZ: have you checked how the tile ownership works with level crossings?
13:03:42 <SmatZ> Noldo: I think it works - maybe it has problems when there is tram too... thanks for suggestion
13:06:46 <nzvip> Any one can help with an array of structs?
13:06:52 <nzvip> struct tnode_t kids[NODE_CHILDREN]; //< I cannot get that to work.
13:07:02 <nzvip> Been too long since I have coded in C.
13:07:48 <nzvip> Incomplete element type.
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13:08:50 <peter1138> Then you have no definition of tnode_t?
13:09:11 <nzvip> It is defined within tnode_t.
13:09:21 <nzvip> I am trying to make a tree of nodes.
13:09:23 <peter1138> tnode_t is defined within tnode_t?
13:10:05 <peter1138> struct tnode_t { struct tnode_t kids[NODE_CHILDREN]; }; ?
13:10:32 <peter1138> Well that would never work.
13:10:52 <peter1138> It would be infinitely large.
13:11:01 <peter1138> You probably want a *
13:11:29 <nzvip> s/without/in replacement of/
13:11:56 <Noldo> you need a array of pointers to tnode_t instead of array tnode_t's
13:12:17 <nzvip> I forget how you do that.
13:12:35 <Noldo> with a star as peter1138 mentioned
13:12:53 <nzvip> But I get errors as well when I do that.
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13:13:28 <nzvip> But that error may be unrelated.
13:13:33 <nzvip> It complains about a for loop.
13:13:46 <Noldo> google for tree examples, there should be plenty
13:14:43 <peter1138> Hmm, I need to straighten my tracks a bit...
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13:23:41 <nzvip> for(i = 0; i < kids; i++) fprintf(new->kids[i], "Test %d child", i);
13:23:54 <nzvip> >:O Why is fprintf complaining now?
13:24:59 <Noldo> elements are type tnode_t and the first parameter of fprintf is not
13:28:57 <peter1138> Randomly try things until they work?
13:30:22 <peter1138> "If at first you don't succeed, try random shit and hope"
13:32:18 <Noldo> "If at first you don't succeed, cheat"
13:33:14 <Gekz> "if you cheat and don't succeed, kill yourself."
13:38:27 <Korenn> if at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't the sport for you
13:44:02 <peter1138> Hmm, I have some trains stuck in a depot :o
13:56:18 <Noldo> peter1138: both think the other is on the way?
13:57:34 <SmatZ> peter1138: clean trunk? signalling bug?
13:59:00 <Gekz> peter1138: electric rail, diesel line?
13:59:43 <peter1138> SmatZ, with 'YAPP' heh
14:00:43 <Tekky> peter1138: I had the same problem once, too. I solved it by using "ignore signal" with the train.
14:01:02 <Tekky> after the new train made a new reservation, the old reservation which causes the bug was gone.
14:01:24 <peter1138> I've got a loop outside the depot. It seems some trains want to go around the loop instead of going where they should :o
14:02:00 <Tekky> are you using the latest YAPP patch? I had this bug once too, but it was fixed in the latest patch, as far as I can tell.
14:02:26 <Tekky> aha, then you are using the latest patch.
14:02:33 <peter1138> I need to check the rest of the network. It might be they can't properly find a path.
14:03:17 <Tekky> if you can't find out why, maybe I can take a look at your savegame, if you want.
14:03:33 <Tekky> because I am very familiar with the new PBS signals.
14:04:02 <Tekky> I was the one who designed them, just I was not the one who implemented them....
14:05:38 <Tekky> Therefore, I should be able to tell whether it is a bug or not.
14:06:18 <peter1138> Hmm, well my savegame doesn't have any trains in that depot
14:06:39 <peter1138> I reload after I had a train crash (semi-cheat!)
14:07:28 <peter1138> Must've gone there where I did some track rebuilding
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14:11:38 <Tekky> I've had many issues with track reservations not being cleared, but haven't been able to reproduce these issues.
14:11:51 <peter1138> Hmm, sometimes trains reserve track out of a station when they're still loading.
14:13:52 <Tekky> I've never had that issue....
14:14:04 <peter1138> Doesn't happen very often
14:16:35 <Tekky> peter1138: Are you sure the train was still loading? Could it be that the train broke down while still in the platform after having reserved a route out of the station?
14:16:49 <peter1138> Yes, it was loading.
14:17:40 <Tekky> peter1138: Strange, I never had any such issues....
14:18:18 <Tekky> and I have been already playing for 10 hours with the new PBS patch :)
14:18:23 <Tekky> I had very little sleep last night :)
14:18:46 <Belugas> same in here, but not for the same reasons...
14:19:27 <peter1138> Up with your wife, eh? ;)
14:20:49 <peter1138> Only thing I want now is some kind of priority signalling
14:20:58 <peter1138> (Not the horrible nasty stuff that the openttdcoop lot do)
14:21:51 <peter1138> Maybe restrictive signals, but waypoints can handle most of that
14:23:14 <Vikthor> Well Kudr had some plan to implement programmable signals with Squirell scripts, but he is not active lately
14:23:41 <peter1138> (requires some newgrfs)
14:24:53 <Tekky> Since the signalling system now is train-driven and not signal-driven (at least with the new signals), I think it would be more meaningful to implement priority trains and not priority signals.
14:26:27 <Belugas> no peter... doing plumbery, or kitchen faucet plus sink installation
14:27:37 <orudge`> ... a new PBS patch, eh?
14:27:37 <Vikthor> Tekky: Well, you can have situations, where train with higher priority joins main track and stops traffic on the main track, because there happens to be low priority train first, but three others with even higher priority behind it.
14:29:50 <Tekky> Vikthor: Yes, trains with higher priority must be able to "bump" or "push" trains with lower priority, i.e. to temporarily give them a higher priority.
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14:30:11 <Tekky> Trains with higher priority will do this if a train with lower priority is blocking their way.
14:30:42 <peter1138> i want non-stop through trains to have priority over trains just leaving a platform, for example
14:31:04 <Tekky> yes, it is a form of "pushing", if you give a train another train a higher priority in order to get further yourself :)
14:31:19 <Tekky> correction: yes, it is a form of "pushing", if you give another train a higher priority in order to get further yourself :)
14:31:20 <Belugas> Drag and draw.... looks pretty cool to me
14:31:53 <Vikthor> Tekky: hmm, good idea
14:32:06 <Tekky> actually, in my (unfinished) code, I call this function BumpTrain() :)
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14:32:29 <peter1138> well for me push/bump means actually touch the other train ;)
14:33:15 <Tekky> no, you can push a train with an object, such as a stick :)
14:33:34 <Tekky> or you can bump it by throwing an object at it :)
14:33:55 <Tekky> thereby increasing its speed.
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15:01:54 <Belugas> Who can be described as the best bridge drawing guru, in your opinion?
15:04:32 <Gonozal_VIII> well.. from the bridges i know, i like pikkas brick viaduct best... but that's only one bridge
15:05:40 <frosch123> though I remember some work for a new version of newbridges
15:06:18 <Gonozal_VIII> yes there's a topic with unfinished bridges somewhere
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15:13:05 <Yorick> michi_cc, I've found a bug in your YAPP, when trains enter at exactly the same moment, they can crash into eachother
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15:13:25 <Belugas> got my hands full now :)
15:13:52 <Gonozal_VIII> yorick, i think you forgot to place signals somewhere then
15:14:40 <Yorick> one train was waiting for the other train that was waiting for another train
15:14:58 <Gonozal_VIII> i've had some crashes too... a lot of crashes^^ it's not easy to build with the pbs... but i couldn't find something it does wrong
15:15:26 <Yorick> when the other train turned around, to see it can't go backwards aswell, the train's signal went green
15:15:48 <Gonozal_VIII> trains shouldn't turn around
15:16:32 <Yorick> like when waiting for a normal signal too long
15:16:49 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, they don't do that with the patch
15:17:16 <Tekky> trains do reverse on non-PBS signals, even with the patch.
15:17:22 <Tekky> they never reverse on PBS signals.
15:17:41 <Gonozal_VIII> they only did that for me if there's some other path like into a depot
15:17:42 <Yorick> there are non-PBS signals after the PBS signals
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15:18:02 <Tekky> so if you use non-PBS signals, you must protect your track layout against train reversal.
15:18:04 <Gonozal_VIII> ah non pbs signals
15:18:31 <Tekky> I personally only use PBS signals, then I have no issues with train reversal.
15:18:45 <Yorick> I have to use something after the PBS signals to prevent them from crashing...
15:19:25 <Gonozal_VIII> the backside of normal pbs signals can't show red... train doesn't know he has to stop and boom... there's the other type of pbs signals for that
15:19:51 <Yorick> the thing reverses, and when it finds a one-way signal after that, it reverses again, while the other train is starting...and boom
15:20:55 <Gonozal_VIII> so the train moves without a path... stupid train
15:22:16 <Gonozal_VIII> they should only reverse if it makes sense, even with normal signals...
15:23:09 <Gonozal_VIII> if there's a signal behind them that they can't pass from that direction... why bother turning
15:23:34 <Yorick> and wait till they crash
15:24:06 * SmatZ has to wait 10 hours to download from rapidshare :-P
15:24:25 <Yorick> I have a script that modifies the download times
15:24:34 <k3ks> hi, i've got a question, is there a timeline that shows when a new building will be available?
15:24:59 <k3ks> i want bigger airports ...
15:25:07 <Gonozal_VIII> should be in the wiki
15:25:35 <Gonozal_VIII> but a fast way to find out is to start a new single player game and cheat the time up until it's available
15:26:36 <Tekky> k3ks: Here it shows which kind of airport is introduced when.
15:26:58 <Gonozal_VIII> first hit on google was a forum post where somebody asked the same question and first answer was that link^^
15:28:32 <Tekky> Yorick: I am downloading your save now.
15:29:03 <k3ks> thx ^^ i thought i search the wiki enough but doesn't seem so
15:34:39 <Tekky> Yorick: I am missing NewGRFs for your save, what is ottdc_grfpack? Where can I get it?
15:35:13 <Gonozal_VIII> newgrfs don't matter
15:35:18 <Tekky> Yorick: I get a crash when I unpause your game, but the trains don't crash. Instead, OpenTTD crashes due to the missing NewGRF :)
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15:35:40 <Gonozal_VIII> some newgrfs matter^^
15:35:51 <Yorick> Tekky: openttdcoop grfpack
15:39:24 <Tekky> should I download Version 6?
15:40:36 <Yorick> to be sure, download the plus version
15:40:58 <Gonozal_VIII> bah, shouldn't have merged all those patches, now updating is a mess
15:44:35 <Tekky> Yorick: Ok I see the problem now.
15:45:16 <Tekky> This, however, is not a bug. This is a result of the limited compatibility between PBS and non-PBS signals.
15:45:49 <Tekky> just a moment, I will try to get the layout to work by changing a few signals to PBS
15:46:06 <Yorick> so the patch that combines them could be the problem ;)
15:47:38 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm can't merge a grf into a patch
15:47:52 <Gonozal_VIII> ah, can but not that way
15:47:55 <Yorick> did you add it using svn
15:48:10 <Yorick> or something like that
15:49:21 <peter1138> Rule 1) There should be no train crashes without user intervention
15:49:35 <peter1138> "dodgy signal layout" should at worst cause stalled trains
15:50:04 <Gonozal_VIII> there are rv and plane crashes without user intervention
15:50:09 <peter1138> changing signals near trains is of course liable to cause problems and that is okay
15:50:26 <Yorick> Gonozal_VII: "...train crashes..."
15:51:28 <Gonozal_VIII> i know that he wrote train but why should they be safe no matter what?
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15:52:10 <Gonozal_VIII> but that they reverse and drive around without a path should be changed
15:52:48 <Yorick> Gonozal_VIII: what if they CAN leave with reversing
15:53:15 <Yorick> and then the path will still be reserved?
15:53:20 <Gonozal_VIII> it should trigger a new path reservation not just, yay i reversed, now i don't care about anything anymore
15:55:44 <Gonozal_VIII> what i mean is.. it should check for a new path backwards before reversing and if there is none, don't reverse
15:56:15 <Yorick> or just-don't reverse when having reserved a path
15:56:24 <Yorick> remove the whole reversing
15:56:33 <Yorick> what is it needed for?
15:56:43 <Gonozal_VIII> something went wrong if the train has a reserved path but can't go there...
15:57:36 <Gonozal_VIII> can that happen without user interaction?
15:58:01 <Yorick> because the pathfinder shouldn't determine that path
15:59:21 <Tekky> Yorick: I think I did find a bug, actually.
15:59:44 <peter1138> at the least, a train on an unreserved path shouldn't be allowed to go through pbs signals the wrong way
16:00:10 <peter1138> (obviously it can go through the right way, as then it'll reserve a path)
16:01:57 <Gonozal_VIII> don't go backwards through pbs signals if you don't have a path... sounds ok
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16:04:44 <Tekky> Yorick; I am still analyzing the bug and trying to reproduce it. I want to see when it happens and when not.
16:06:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> explanation for non-german-speakers: ZS 4 (the 'K' plate) is means 'drive at maximum speed, a faster train is behind you and cannot overtake', ZS 5 (the 'L' plate) means 'drive at 2/3 of maximum speed, a slower train is in front of you, avoid stopping at red signal'
16:07:52 <Gonozal_VIII> oh, missed that link
16:08:46 <Gonozal_VIII> the trains always go at max speed anyways
16:09:02 <Gonozal_VIII> but slowdown without stopping... nice
16:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> once upon a time there was a "yellow signals" patch that did that
16:10:43 <Gonozal_VIII> optimal way would be to look ahead, read the speed of the train ahead and adapt to that
16:12:23 <Tekky> Eddi: These are instructions for the driver of the train. In OpenTTD, trains drive at max speed at all times anyway, so there is no need for such signs. What train priority should influence is not the speed of trains but instead which train gets a green signal first.
16:12:53 <Tekky> and with LZB, there are no signals :)
16:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> Tekky: well, yeah, i just wanted to throw that link in here ;)
16:13:04 <Gonozal_VIII> you can do that with the distance of the pbs signals to the junction
16:13:15 <Tekky> if you are using LZB, there is no need for any signals :)
16:14:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, not all trains have LZB installed, in order to run trains without LZB on a high speed track, there are still "normal" signals there, just not at every (virtual) signal block
16:15:39 <peter1138> Hmm, it is possible to remove reserved track :o
16:16:00 <Tekky> peter1138: Yes, but only piece by piece, I think.
16:16:39 <peter1138> Well it stays reserved
16:16:51 <peter1138> Even though it is not there :o
16:16:53 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm what i understood was that it's impossible piece by piece but possible with area tools
16:17:05 <Gonozal_VIII> but didn't test that aspect
16:17:38 <Tekky> Yorick: I have identified the problem now.
16:17:58 <peter1138> It is only impossible for diagonal tiles
16:18:11 <peter1138> N-S and E-W track can be removed
16:18:25 <Tekky> Yorick: You must keep at least one train length between PBS and non-PBS signals.
16:19:15 <Tekky> Yorick: Then everything seems to work.
16:19:20 <peter1138> If you remove said piece a train will go on another path, unreserved, and then likely crash, heh
16:21:49 <peter1138> Weird, it's not letting me remove them now
16:22:01 <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes tortoise merge really sucks^^
16:22:31 <Gonozal_VIII> unresolvable conflict... number of spaces between bool autoslope; and ///< Allow terraforming under things.
16:22:55 <peter1138> Now that must be a silly bug
16:23:03 <peter1138> I can't remove reserved track when I'm using the rail tool
16:23:08 <Yorick> use patch.exe, Gonozal_VIII
16:23:10 <peter1138> I can remove it when I'm using the elrail tool
16:23:37 <Gonozal_VIII> nah, there are real conflicts to solfe
16:23:58 <Gonozal_VIII> v to this in vehicles
16:26:05 <Tekky> peter1138: If you cannot enter a piece of track due to a "leftover" reservation, the only way to clear that reservation I have found is to force another train onto that track using "ignore signal" in order to make that new train the owner of the reservation.
16:26:26 <LordAzamath> is there any patch option that disables subsidies?
16:26:53 <LordAzamath> ok.. stupid question
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16:27:34 <LordAzamath> I want to play with only subsidies.. But there werwen't ay.. so I thought I had pressed some wrong button
16:29:04 <RoRTom> i would like to know how your crashdump code is working :D
16:29:31 <RoRTom> not much help there :|
16:29:36 <wells> Hello everybody. I add some patches on openttd 0.6.0beta3, but it can't load previous savegame. openttd reports "invalid trunk size" I don't know why. can anybody help me? my patch did not modify the saveload.cpp.
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16:30:21 <Yorick> wells: things that got broken with a patch are not to be answered by OpenTTD developers ;)
16:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> wells: talk to the patch author(s)
16:30:47 <wells> I am the patch authour -_-b
16:31:25 <wells> I don't know why my patch made openttd cannot load previous savegame ...
16:32:12 <RoRTom> win32.cpp line 461 : static LONG WINAPI ExceptionHandler(EXCEPTION_POINTERS *ep)
16:32:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> this option stuff needs a serious overhaul
16:36:20 <glx> we just followed msdn examples
16:38:14 <RoRTom> i should have looked better :|
16:39:08 <Gonozal_VIII> successfully updated to 12040, only 26 revisions to go :-)
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16:42:32 <peter1138> invalid "trunk" size, hehehe
16:43:23 <GoneWacko> No. That's just silly.
16:43:49 <peter1138> yay for nice simple junctions without huge flyovers
16:44:19 <GoneWacko> Give me OpenTTD with pbs and conditional signals and I'll switch from TTDPatch :p
16:45:06 <keyweed> pull the repository and start coding!
16:45:29 <peter1138> when does maglev appear in dbsetxl?
16:45:47 <wells> Thanks, the problem solved!!!
16:45:53 <peter1138> Damn, it's 2009 already :o
16:46:26 <wells> Vikthor, Thanks! the problem solved!
16:46:38 <Gonozal_VIII> well... +-random
16:46:50 <GoneWacko> I would if it wasn't that the most intricate C++ code I ever wrote was a hello world application with Boost's program_options library, keyweed
16:47:14 <Vikthor> wells: Thank to whoever wrote that article :D
16:47:32 <glx> RoRTom: wow RoR looks nice
16:48:43 <keyweed> GoneWacko: good start. start at the beginning and continue till the end.
16:49:43 <GoneWacko> The last time I coded for OpenTTD I made TicTacToe in the main menu, and a few patches which Darkvater ended up rewriting entirely in 3 minutes time (but he gave me credit anyway, woo yay)
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16:50:16 <GoneWacko> I've got my own TTD-ish project lined up anyway (not a TTD clone as such, because that would be silly)
16:50:49 <Gonozal_VIII> what is DC_FORCETEST and why is that missing now
16:52:07 <GoneWacko> Those were the days
16:52:23 <Yorick> stop posting useless "junk"
16:52:52 <Yorick> hmm...nice forestfire !
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16:53:40 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: last use removed in r12060, so we removed it in r12061
16:54:16 <Gonozal_VIII> copy & paste patch uses that
16:54:39 <lud> i'm using openttd on debian linux
16:54:55 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess i'll just copy the function to where the function is called then..
16:55:22 <glx> check "transparency" options
16:55:36 <Gonozal_VIII> transparency for signs
16:55:46 * peter1138 watches the ror videos
16:55:58 <hylje> ror as in ruby on rails?
16:56:00 <peter1138> reminds me a bit of "1nsane"
16:56:43 <peter1138> downloading atm, but it's big :/
16:57:23 <lud> i see the opiton disply the population and the city name
16:57:35 <lud> but i still can't see the name :'
16:58:17 <DJon> Hi guys.. Where can I pause the game if less then 2 players are in the game?
16:58:26 <glx> it's not in patches settings lud
16:58:27 <peter1138> min_players at the server console
16:58:43 <lud> glx > i'm in advanced setting
16:58:51 <peter1138> it's not there either
16:59:08 <peter1138> on the spanner menu
16:59:11 <peter1138> "town names displayed"
16:59:14 * Belugas is sea sick watching that RoR boat floating up and down, up and down and ....
17:00:04 <DJon> how does min_players work ?
17:00:28 <glx> it pauses the game if less than min_players are connected
17:00:34 <Yorick> and the server will unpause if there is 1 client connected!
17:01:03 <DJon> but i just changed it for 2, and the game hasnt paused itself
17:01:38 <DJon> (2 because my server run as a client)
17:01:43 <RoRTom> free truck/plane/boat simulator ;)
17:02:28 <RoRTom> you should rather use the .deb :|
17:03:01 <peter1138> didn't see one on there
17:03:42 <RoRTom> i really need to get crosscompilation to work :-\
17:04:09 <Belugas> that project is truely amasing, RoRTom
17:04:56 <Belugas> i just imagine all the calculations behing each of the videos and my mind is doing overload...
17:04:58 <RoRTom> if you need help, you can ask me ;)
17:05:21 <RoRTom> thats the reqason for the high cpu requirements...
17:05:23 <Amis> MiHaMiX = MiHaMek right?
17:05:56 <RoRTom> the 0.34 version is crashing for some ppl on windows
17:06:06 <RoRTom> so i wanne get the minidump to work :-\
17:06:07 <glx> hmm why does it want to install directx?
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17:06:29 <RoRTom> just continue, if its installed its ignored
17:06:36 <glx> minidump works only for MSVC builds
17:06:48 <RoRTom> sure, windows version is MSVC :)
17:08:00 <glx> bad idea, we need an older version because direct music
17:08:11 <glx> I hope that won't break anything
17:08:20 <DJon> Guys.. I set min_players to 2 : First, i did not pause the game, so I did it myself.. Second, I tried to connect using my laptop, and the server did not unpaused the game
17:09:04 <DJon> should i restart the game on the server?
17:09:41 <DJon> (just be aware the my server is acting as a client too)
17:09:41 <glx> no need to restart I think
17:09:57 <glx> works for dedicated only IIRC
17:10:34 <DJon> I will do so then.. thanks!
17:11:13 <DJon> and by the way.. Really great job guys ! I'd like to give my effort, but time is missing me
17:14:01 <RoRTom> found a good guide, thanks for help regarding the memory dump :)
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17:17:35 <michi_cc> I have returned and read the backlog, so fear not :)
17:18:48 <Forked> quick! get him! (or her..)
17:19:15 <Gonozal_VIII> there are no females on irc, never forget that ;-)
17:19:17 *** Tlustoch has joined #openttd
17:19:20 <Forked> Gonozal_VIII: not paying attention to gender..
17:19:33 <Forked> Gonozal_VIII: what?! but I met my gf (and future wife) on efnet.
17:19:52 <Gonozal_VIII> sure that she's female?
17:20:05 <Yorick> [18:19] <Gonozal_VIII> sure that she's female?
17:26:15 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
17:26:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
17:26:49 <Forked> ok so how many of you send orudge` the evil "asl?" now? =p
17:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> why, we know those ;)
17:28:07 <orudge`> Y'know, back when I used to have Melissa Joan Hart as my avatar the first time round, somebody PMed me on the forum thinking I was actually a girl
17:28:20 <orudge`> it was somewhat amusing, if a bit disturbing
17:29:44 <orudge`> 20/m/Brazil, at the moment
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17:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> and how many asked that while you had gandalf? ;)
17:34:18 <Forked> anyway.. how about that pbs! (damn work, I haven't been able to test it yet)
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17:37:01 <Gonozal_VIII> i'm too stupid to get the copy&paste patch from 12060 to 12061 :-/
17:38:04 <peter1138> RoRTom, the deb is missing dependencies (libzzip)
17:38:07 <planetmaker> is there somewhere a working copy of the pbs patch around? (win or mac)
17:38:27 <Jortuny> planetmaker: I have a mac ppc bundle compiled
17:38:58 <planetmaker> Jortuny: can you make it somewhere available?
17:39:12 <peter1138> and i'm left with a black window :(
17:39:38 <Jortuny> planetmaker: hmm, what is a good place to send files with
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17:40:45 <planetmaker> hm... e-mail it to newsgroups (ät) planetmaker.de
17:41:02 <Jortuny> ok, I'll see if that works
17:41:30 <planetmaker> (I'll have to teach myself to patch the source soon, I guess...)
17:42:07 <Jortuny> you realize this is for ppc macs only, right? :p
17:43:04 <planetmaker> uh... no, I didn't. Should it run on an intel, too?
17:43:18 <Jortuny> but it will be slower
17:43:27 <Jortuny> and I actually have no idea, but I sent it to you anyways
17:43:41 <planetmaker> I'll see. Thanks a lot :)
17:44:03 <Jortuny> I've been testing it quite a bit, and the only issue I found has already been discussed to death
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17:44:15 <Jortuny> namely, if you do terminus stations with the two entrances (like you would with pre-signals)
17:44:15 *** sdfdsfagadf is now known as Gonozal_VIII
17:44:24 <Jortuny> and put a depot on the cross
17:44:34 <Jortuny> trains will block coming out of the depot
17:44:45 <redmonkey> hi. i've got a question: the highest production rate a coal mine for example can have is around 2000 tons. but what about farms? is a farm able to produce 2000 tons of both, grain and livestock?
17:44:49 <Jortuny> but I'm assuming thats the same issue as not reserving a block out of a depot
17:45:25 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, 2xxx of both
17:45:45 <planetmaker> Jortuny: if that's the only issue, it has come pretty far in a short bit of time.
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17:45:58 <Jortuny> planetmaker: well, I'm sure there are other things, but yeah, that's the only thing I found
17:46:08 <redmonkey> ok, thanks Gonozal_VIII
17:47:04 <planetmaker> Gonozal_VIII: I saw you posting an (extended?) map array which contained all possible terrains in 7 bits. Looks pretty promising to me :)
17:47:25 <planetmaker> or at least it goes in a direction i definitely like
17:47:57 <Gonozal_VIII> 4 bits for the existing terrain :-)
17:48:04 <planetmaker> ^^exactly that one :)
17:48:39 <planetmaker> but the additional information make it more interesting and versatile. I wouldn't save a single bit for just the sake of saving it...
17:48:51 <planetmaker> even if it is a megabit all in all.
17:48:59 <Conny> Hello. How can I see in game, how many people are still in game?
17:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: your link is broken
17:49:29 <Gonozal_VIII> yes i saw that... don't know why
17:49:38 <RoRTom> peter, sorry, its beta as i said :((
17:49:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> you introduced a "bold" character inbetween
17:49:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> you constantly switch between bold and non-bold
17:49:58 <RoRTom> if you want to join our irc channel, we could help you get it working
17:50:16 *** Yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
17:50:24 <RoRTom> @ peter : irc://blueyonder.uk.quakenet.org/RigsOfRods
17:50:30 <Conny> Gonnozal_VIII: Where to fiend the clientlist?
17:50:50 <Gonozal_VIII> hold mouse down on the guy with the black hat
17:50:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
17:51:13 <Gonozal_VIII> where have you been?
17:51:17 <Bjarni> I knew that would happen
17:51:44 <Bjarni> I have been driving trains for the past 6 years
17:52:19 <Bjarni> actually a little bit more than that
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17:52:47 <Bjarni> if you are asking about the weekend then I was offline
17:53:03 <Bjarni> and when I have stuff to do I better not start IRC
17:53:20 <Gonozal_VIII> so you didn't die or anything?
17:53:41 * Prof_Frink deboldinates Gonozal_VIII
17:53:42 * Bjarni starts a self diagnosis
17:54:01 <Bjarni> I will be back in 2 days... there is a lot to check
17:57:03 <Gonozal_VIII> #ifdef ENABLE_NETWORK <-- what does that do?
17:57:03 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: lines 2 & 3 were
17:57:30 <Gonozal_VIII> yay then the deboldification worked
17:58:03 <dih> checks if ENABLE_NETWORK is defined
17:58:49 <Gonozal_VIII> #endif /* ENABLE_NETWORK */
17:58:49 <Gonozal_VIII> DoCommandP(tile, p1, p2, callback, cmd);
17:59:07 <Gonozal_VIII> (the endif thingy)
17:59:39 <dih> stuff between ifdef and endif is only available if ENABLE_NETWORK has been defined
18:00:31 <Gonozal_VIII> then that should be ok as it is... trying to compile
18:01:08 <Gonozal_VIII> dirty fix, removed the cost estimation
18:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: when you ./configure to not compile with network support, the code between these lines is ignored by the compiler
18:01:40 <RoRTom> hi Bjarni, and thanks for such a great game :)
18:02:01 <RoRTom> btw we released Rigs of Rods for MAC :)
18:02:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: useful, if you do not have network libraries installed, so the compiler does not try to link to them
18:02:56 <Gonozal_VIII> that's why it had to be after the else... otherwise it would start with else without those lines... makes sense
18:06:54 *** Jortuny is now known as Jortuny-away
18:07:03 <Bjarni> RoRTom: how can it be that I never heard of Rigs for Rods?
18:08:40 <hylje> not much hype-machine yet
18:09:57 <RoRTom> @ Bjarni: its an indie game, not such popular as yours ;)
18:10:00 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
18:10:02 <dih> lets see how that runs on ppc
18:10:20 *** [1]Mark has joined #openttd
18:10:43 <RoRTom> you should read pricorde's remarks for macos first
18:12:03 <Gonozal_VIII> (copy & paste in 12066) but i had to remove the cost estimation
18:12:22 <Gonozal_VIII> and it doesn't copy oneway roads...
18:13:48 <Gonozal_VIII> cost estimation used a bla that got removed in 12061, i tried to reimplement that but failed... and i have no idea where to start for one way roads
18:13:56 <Gonozal_VIII> no, it's not in trunk
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18:14:26 <dih> "RoR is compiled as Universal Binary, but it will probably NOT work on PowerPCs" <-- then why on earth make a universal bin?
18:14:32 *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark
18:14:48 <RoRTom> i dont know, i wish i would have a MAC :'(
18:15:02 <dih> anyway - i only have a 64MB nvidia card so i'll forget it and cancle the download
18:15:27 <RoRTom> yes, it has high requirements :\
18:16:00 <dih> xflightgear works like a charm here
18:17:05 <RoRTom> xflighgear is no real physic simulation i think? :|
18:17:14 <RoRTom> RoR has very high cpu requirements
18:17:37 <glx> it is a nice funny thing :)
18:18:18 * LordAzamath is going to write 1pg of essay, where all words start with h
18:18:24 <dih> flightgear has a real physics engine
18:18:29 <Bjarni> <RoRTom> RoR has very high cpu requirements <-- why?
18:18:37 <Bjarni> and how high is "very high"?
18:19:09 *** LordAzamath is now known as LA[writing]
18:19:25 <RoRTom> "What makes RoR different to most simulators is its unique soft-body physics: vehicles chassis and wheels are simulated in real-time as flexible objects, giving the simulation an extremely accurate behavior, while allowing the vehicles to be simply specified by their structural composition, as a network of interconnected nodes (forming the chassis and the wheels)."
18:19:28 <hylje> does networked physics involve any voodoo?
18:19:35 <dih> RoRTom: xflight is the commercial version of flightgear
18:19:37 <RoRTom> no, but high traffic :|
18:19:50 <dih> and in fact is said to be useful for real flight training
18:19:57 <Gonozal_VIII> daylength_treegrowth_refit_copypaste_middlestop_unmovable_yapp_r12066.patch <-- now that's a long filename^^
18:20:04 <RoRTom> cool, i should have a look :D
18:20:19 <dih> and is also used for rc flight training
18:20:42 <RoRTom> you are able to plug in your real life controller?
18:20:57 *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
18:21:03 <dih> you get controllers for computers
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18:23:10 <dih> RoRTom: what are the requirements for the winbin
18:26:28 <Gonozal_VIII> nogood :-/ assertion fails when i open configure patches window
18:26:50 <RoRTom> 2GHz and newer gfx card i think
18:26:59 <RoRTom> works best with quadcore ;)
18:27:12 <peter1138> failed to have it working :(
18:27:19 <peter1138> black screen of nothing happening :(
18:27:26 <dih> if that is the case you need to do some reworking there
18:27:31 <RoRTom> whats the console message?
18:27:38 <peter1138> can't remember, i'm at home now
18:27:48 <RoRTom> @ dih: its already optimized
18:27:49 <peter1138> stupid users, not recording their error messages ;)
18:28:08 <dih> RoRTom: 'quadcore' does not sound optimized
18:28:57 <dih> hl2 has an amazing physics engine
18:29:14 <dih> flightgear has an amazing physics engine
18:29:22 <RoRTom> download and try it out ;)
18:29:49 <RoRTom> also we are no 500 member dev team, jsut two ppl
18:30:01 <dih> i have an amd 2400+ with a ati 1350 256MB graphics card
18:30:02 <RoRTom> and sure it can be optimized, but IMO not much anymore
18:30:21 <dih> i will... but not now :-P
18:30:41 <RoRTom> post in our forums or our chat
18:31:04 <dih> nah - not _that_ interested that i would sign up
18:31:21 <RoRTom> sure, i can understand that :)
18:31:39 <dih> did you just come here to advertise your own software?
18:31:44 <dih> get some more hits on your webpage?
18:32:12 <dih> nicely 'hidden' the facts
18:32:41 <RoRTom> just got the windows dump thingy working now :D
18:32:59 <dih> i dumped windows a long time ago :-P
18:33:18 <RoRTom> me also, but i need to maintain a windows version also :|
18:33:36 <dih> get that flippin thing working for a g4
18:33:58 <RoRTom> i have compiz on linux, thats enough eyecandy :P
18:34:24 <Amis> is it possible to build another helistation into the game that is 2x4 not 4x2?
18:34:25 <Bjarni> that's way better than my G4 :s
18:34:48 <dih> i got meself a 12" power book :-)
18:35:09 <Bjarni> apart from the screen size
18:35:29 <dih> so i fit the same stuff on it
18:35:37 <dih> the keyboard is the same on every power book
18:35:48 <Bjarni> I would go for a 17" monitor
18:35:52 <dih> the keyboard is not small
18:35:52 * orudge` has a 13" MacBook, he likes it
18:35:58 <Bjarni> 15,2" is also ok for a notebook
18:36:02 <Gonozal_VIII> my laptop has a seperate numpad
18:36:03 <Prof_Frink> dih: Why not spend a fucktonne more and get a macbook air?
18:36:10 <Bjarni> but it shouldn't be much smaller than that
18:36:28 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: I wouldn't get a macbook air
18:36:28 <dih> Pof_Frink: i got this thingy like 2 years ago
18:36:29 <RoRTom> i dont think the air thing is worth it?
18:36:45 <Bjarni> basically I need cat5/6 ethernet
18:37:02 <Prof_Frink> RoRTom: Yeah, I'd rather have the six Eeepcs.
18:37:10 <dih> i dont want anything bigger than this 12"
18:37:32 <Bjarni> <RoRTom> i dont think the air thing is worth it? <-- I think it could be if it fits your needs but it's not aimed at guys like us
18:38:07 <dih> i would not aim at anybody - it'd break when you throw it
18:38:15 <hylje> which is a bit too large
18:38:27 <Bjarni> dih: actually I think it's more durable than it looks
18:38:59 <dih> the old generation of power books with titanium casing were durable
18:39:25 <LA[writing]> Gonozal_VIII: I still didn't understand what does ftw mean...Google....For The Win. Commonly used among geeks to express their enthusiasm for something, especially in IRC. :P
18:40:08 <Prof_Frink> :o wtf doesn't know what ftw means
18:41:22 <Bjarni> --- wtf :No such nick/channel
18:41:32 <dih> i only know the w to stand for 'what' not 'who'
18:41:48 <LA[writing]> t might be for the :P
18:41:49 <Prof_Frink> wtf - translates acronyms for you
18:42:29 <Prof_Frink> alan@frinkserv:~$ wtf lol
18:42:29 <Prof_Frink> LOL: laughing out loud
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18:43:30 <Gonozal_VIII> yay i think i found the source of the assertion :D
18:43:59 <dih> need to run - cu later ladies
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18:52:52 <Gonozal_VIII> wow i found and fixed a "bug" in a patch, i'm so good^^
18:54:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> i am gooder than you
18:54:18 <Gonozal_VIII> but i am the most goodest around here!
18:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> more gooder! ;)
18:54:57 <Gonozal_VIII> daylength_treegrowth_refit_copypaste_middlestop_unmovable_yapp_r12066.patch <-- looky, your patch is inside that too
18:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> hey... it WAS only 5 lines ;)
18:55:47 <Gonozal_VIII> now it's a bit more lines^^
18:56:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> i only do short patches ;)
18:56:45 <Gonozal_VIII> treegrowth patch had a missing ',' in the _patches_construction array.. it was the last entry so it didn't matter but pbs comes after that, array broke and caused an assertion...
18:56:50 <RoRTom> is the daylenght patch integrated yet?
18:57:03 <Gonozal_VIII> in my version it is :-)
18:57:15 <RoRTom> hope to get it into the trunk? ;)
18:57:43 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think so.. they don't want it in trunk
18:58:02 <LA[writing]> any particular reason?
18:58:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> Celestar once said he would introduce similar functionality in the gamebalance branch
18:58:48 <Gonozal_VIII> i think it was something about changing the running costs is not what grf authors want
18:59:59 <Gonozal_VIII> looks a bit strange with max daylength, when running costs are higher than purchase costs...
19:02:04 <Gonozal_VIII> btw am i allowed to paste that merged patch stuff/a binary made with it on the forum or would that require permission by the patch writers?
19:03:04 <fjb> OpenTTD source is GPL. So every patch is automaticaly GPL.
19:04:11 <fjb> Just read the licence. :-)
19:04:47 <Gonozal_VIII> didn't know that the open licence applies to patches too
19:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, legally, there are no implied licenses, license must be explicitely stated, but if someone insists that he did not relase it under the GPL, he may not have released it in the first place
19:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> so he violated the GPL in releasing the patch under non-GPL-compatible license
19:06:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> note: that only applies to direct source patches, not "3rd party programs" that are only loosely connected to the game (e.g. grf files)
19:07:28 <Gonozal_VIII> mb wrote enough about that^^
19:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, the term "links to" in the GPL text is probably the most disputed
19:09:19 <fjb> Yes, but it is clear for the patches.
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19:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> also note that private patches do not automatically fall under the GPL (e.g. in case they are stolen and released by someone else)
19:12:11 <Gonozal_VIII> like for example... middlestop?
19:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i did make that publically accessible myself ;)
19:19:36 <Yorick> middlestop...what does that one do?
19:22:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> trains stop in the middle of the platform instead of the end (as long as possible)
19:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/middle_stop2.diff (i hope)
19:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> the earliest version i have is against r6982
19:24:47 <Yorick> what is it usefull for?
19:25:12 <Gonozal_VIII> if platforms are too long
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19:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2028%20Sep%201927.png <- that's the only one i could find that has a train visible...
19:28:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's one tile of platform in front of and behind the train left
19:31:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%2014%20Aug%201923.png <- here you might also see a train waiting on the platform (2nd from the right)
19:34:07 <peter1138> Silly junctions. You should use PBS...
19:34:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> that second one does have PBS ;)
19:36:04 <LA[writing]> hmm.. I got highlighted, but nobody mentioned me...
19:36:17 <YOYO> is it possibel to install 2 or more openTTD installation on a linux box? The wiki doenst tell me much about it
19:36:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> YOYO: you can run openttd from any directory
19:37:03 <YOYO> hmmm well OpenSuse needs to compile it but it does that within its own directory
19:38:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have multiple self compiled versions in my home directory
19:39:00 <YOYO> just as long as it is in a own directory ofcourse
19:41:57 <Gonozal_VIII> obviously you can't have files with the same name in the same dir
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19:43:19 <Gonozal_VIII> my patch merge thingy
19:44:46 <Gonozal_VIII> didn't test if it works with buildottd but it should...
19:44:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIIIIN ;)
19:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, in continuation of MiniIN and ChrisIN ;)
19:46:59 <Gonozal_VIII> you need more files, not just the exe
19:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> you need to put the original data files in ~/.openttd/data
19:47:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> or duplicate them for every copy
19:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> do not put openttd[dw].grf etc. in there, only trg*.grf
19:48:12 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, that openttd grf changes a lot
19:51:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> files in ~/.openttd/ are common for all installed versions
19:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> (0.6.0 and newer)
19:51:30 <YOYO> Edidi after compiling its a big mess of all files... Any idea how to solve that?
19:52:46 <Gonozal_VIII> you need the exe, chars.grf, openttdw.grf and english.lng
19:54:03 <peter1138> Unless you're using a build that doesn't use chars.grf
19:54:52 <YOYO> been a long time i looked to it
19:55:05 <YOYO> hmm its still on the download page under source
19:55:17 <peter1138> It's the latest stable.
19:55:54 <Gonozal_VIII> imho 12066 is the latest stable... 0.5.3 is something ancient stableish^^
19:56:09 <peter1138> It's the latest stable release.
19:57:00 <YOYO> lawl plz gents no fight about it :)
19:57:19 <YOYO> means version 0.6.0 is comming then?
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19:58:58 <Gonozal_VIII> why does building with mingw work without any problems and buildottd fails?
20:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> because you use an inferior IRC client ;)
20:00:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is punishing you for that ;)
20:01:26 <hylje> yet another pbs pathfinder
20:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> uarrghh... driving on left...
20:02:31 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2, it's British!
20:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> i know, it scares me anyway ;)
20:03:04 <peter1138> And yes I do driving on right with DBSetXL :)
20:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> the line Leipzig-Dresden (first long distance railway in germany) used driving on left in the beginning
20:04:09 <peter1138> left-right right-left? What is that supposed to mean?
20:04:14 <orudge`> wiggling all over the road?
20:04:35 <Tefad> driving on right, and 120 split phase home wiring, woo
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20:20:03 <Bjarni> actually only one wtf could be really bad too
20:20:12 <Bjarni> like "wtf... is this really code?"
20:20:25 <Bjarni> and it never leaves that state
20:20:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is LOLCODE ;)
20:21:51 <Gonozal_VIII> functions.h: Permission denied
20:21:52 <Gonozal_VIII> seems like compile failed because of that...
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20:22:20 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: sorry... you are not allowed to compile
20:22:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> request permission by filling out this form in 3 copies
20:23:05 <Bjarni> but first you need to go two weeks in jail for doing it without permission
20:23:23 <Bjarni> [21:22:02] <Yorick> :D
20:23:23 <Bjarni> [21:22:02] <Bjarni> :D
20:23:51 <Bjarni> why does copy paste sometimes (but not always) reverse the order of lines?
20:24:12 <Bjarni> anyway I'm op so my reply takes priority
20:24:43 <Gonozal_VIII> yorick is a bot that reads the future and copies that
20:24:45 <Bjarni> Yorick: do you dare to say that outside?
20:25:00 <Yorick> [21:24] <Gonozal_VIII> yorick is a bot that reads the future and copies that
20:25:21 <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes with lag...
20:25:26 <Bjarni> looks like the future is now
20:26:06 *** Yorick was kicked by Bjarni (now I send you outside to say that (and stop using your mirror when you proofread your lines))
20:26:37 <Bjarni> did you bring some snow for us?
20:26:51 * orudge` gives Bjarni a pineapple
20:27:03 *** Yorick was kicked by Bjarni (then we better redo this)
20:27:19 <Bjarni> did you bring some snow for us?
20:27:23 <Yorick> there you go: some rainwater and darkness
20:27:55 <Bjarni> orudge`: thanks but it's not snow
20:27:56 <Belugas> keep yar snaw! Don't want it! Got plenty enouggh!!!
20:29:05 <Bjarni> Belugas: are you trying to be different on purpose?
20:29:14 <Bjarni> snow is worth a fortune
20:29:21 <DorpsGek> Yorick: I have 5 registered users with 5 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
20:29:34 <DorpsGek> Bjarni: I have 5 registered users with 5 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
20:29:42 * orudge` gives Bjarni lots of sand then, instead
20:30:03 <orudge`> I don't think they get much snow in Brazil
20:30:05 <Bjarni> don't answer that one :P
20:30:07 <Belugas> Bjarni, naaa... just don't want mare snaw
20:30:24 <Belugas> i can't even pronounce it normally...
20:31:09 <Belugas> tired of the cold that goes with it
20:31:19 <Bjarni> sounds like a guy where his wife is cooking something bad for dinner and he wonders about eating out in secret but is scared not to be hungry when he gets home
20:31:26 <Belugas> tired of climbing on it to get to the bus
20:31:53 <Bjarni> <Belugas> tired of removing it <-- think about all the money you save on the gym
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20:45:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... conflict...
20:46:16 <Gonozal_VIII> what conflict where?
20:47:05 <Belugas> "Meet the new Boss, the same as the Old Boss"
20:47:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> daylength patch vs. vehicle running costs classifying
20:47:37 <Gonozal_VIII> change v to this
20:47:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> as far as i can judge, v-> needs replacement with this->
20:47:47 <Gonozal_VIII> even i could resolve that ;-)
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21:01:55 <Gonozal_VIII> did anybody test my merge patch stuff with buildottd?
21:02:29 <Gonozal_VIII> i did and it doesn't work.. but buildottd doesn't work most of the time for me
21:02:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> you hardly find such people here
21:11:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, "such people"
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21:46:46 <DJ-Nekkid> i can be one of thoose
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21:50:47 <DJ-Nekkid> aka windows'ed and no c++ skills...
21:51:19 <Gonozal_VIII> and does it work for you?
21:52:52 <DJ-Nekkid> compile successfull-window just popped up
21:53:15 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess something is wrong with my buildottd install then
21:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> PBS is just what this 2 track station needed!
21:56:07 <Gonozal_VIII> most stations are better with pbs
21:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> passthrough trains can just overtake the waiting train
21:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> does the signal gui have keyboard shortcuts?
21:57:54 <Gonozal_VIII> it should keep the selection
22:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> i often need to switch the conversion button
22:02:17 <Gonozal_VIII> ctrl could trigger convert when the signal gui is in use
22:02:46 <Gonozal_VIII> and the signal convert needs to be draggable^^
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22:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> now i need to figure out how to properly switch lanes
22:07:54 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm route markers
22:08:19 <Gonozal_VIII> to get them to prefer less interfering routes through junctions
22:13:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> is that after c++?
22:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, at least i did not have crashes so far...
22:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, just look if the file extensions are .cpp ;)
22:14:41 <Gonozal_VIII> and yes, has .cpp stuff
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22:20:29 <Gonozal_VIII> routemarker_v1.0.6_r10641.patch <-- seems to be the latest.. should be possible...
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22:28:18 * Belugas is going home, at last
22:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> yay, i just witnessed my first express train overtaking a cargo train
22:28:49 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2, JPG OR IT NEVER HAPPENED
22:30:05 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause2: so? I'd like to see a cargo train overtaking an express train!
22:31:00 <Gonozal_VIII> testcompiling routemarkers with r11000
22:34:26 <Gonozal_VIII> nope, doesn't work
22:34:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> yay, first crash ;)
22:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> apparently, it does not like if trains enter a PBS block through a non-PBS signal
22:41:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's one of those instances where you notice that all PBS implementations need a "at least reserve the space the train is on, even if you did not pass a PBS signal"
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22:46:25 <Gonozal_VIII> oh.. that the compile failed with 11k wasn't my fault... fails with 10641 too
22:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2020.%20Nov%201973.png <- sorry, i couldn't bring it over my heart to do jpg ;)
22:47:22 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause2: the main problem is that the concept of a pbs block doesn't really exist. the reservation is controlled by the signals, and plain old signals suddenly behaving as pbs signals are equally confusing.
22:47:24 <michi_cc> two easy rules will prevent crashes in mixed signal blocks. First, only build either pbs or old signals as entries, not both. Second, use only old or one-way pbs signals as block exits.
22:48:09 <peter1138> michi_cc, unfortunately it needs to be more robust.
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22:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> michi_cc: yes, i know now, but you COULD reserve track through any signal, just ignore that information if it isn't PBS
22:48:41 <peter1138> One of the reasons the old system was removed was precisely that trains could crash without the user doing anything.
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22:55:29 <michi_cc> mixing signal types is something I consider as user error, anything else is a bug. always reserving paths has it's own problems as well. consider track removal, either reserved tracks can be freely removed which will very likely lead to crashes, or user will suddenly find that they can't remove some tracks for no reason anymore
22:56:50 <michi_cc> there is a reason why I named these signals 'advanced signals' in the gui
22:57:11 <Gonozal_VIII> if the user tries to remove a reserved track, check if the reservation is still valid?
22:58:19 <Gonozal_VIII> in the sense of follow it and if it doesn't end in a train, it's nonsense
22:58:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but you can't expect the user to update all signals at once
22:58:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> or you do it automatically
22:59:24 <michi_cc> what is valid? a train moving from a to b on a path will block that path from removal then, even in non-pbs blocks. this would be a big sudden change of behavior
22:59:42 <peter1138> michi_cc, also there is a bug with removing reserved track. I can't with rail (good), but I can with elrail (bad)
23:00:01 <michi_cc> peter1138: fixed in the next version
23:00:53 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause2: either follow the two simple rules for mixed blocks then or stop the trains in the area and manually start them again
23:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> michi_cc: yes, but there is no big fat warning label for these rules
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23:03:11 <peter1138> one possibility: auto/forced update. do not allow non-advanced 'entrance' signals in a 'block' if there is at least one advanced signal
23:04:16 <michi_cc> documentation could be added, even though most user will not read it anyway. but as long as the pbs signals have to be switched on manually by the user, those not reading documentation will probably not find the pbs signals either
23:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i do read docs, but nowhere, this warning appeared
23:05:29 <michi_cc> peter1138: this is a possibility, but blocks containing two-sided signals will lead to a chain reaction then
23:06:02 <peter1138> are two-sided advanced signals useful?
23:06:17 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause2: and this is one of the reasons why it's posted in the development forum and not elsewhere: it's not finished
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23:06:52 <michi_cc> peter1138: no, they aren't. but to what schould present two-sided plain signals be converted?
23:07:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> michi_cc: yes, and this is why you should consider me a beta tester with a suggestion, not a user with a complaint ;)
23:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> michi_cc: in most cases, a PBS signal exiting the station
23:07:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, my most cases ;)
23:08:16 <peter1138> in most cases a one-way advanced signal towards the 'block' that is converting it
23:08:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i suddenly have much less signals at this station ;)
23:09:12 <michi_cc> peter1138: and will break networks then that depend on the two-way functionality
23:09:40 <peter1138> i mean one-sided advanced signals, those which can be passed both ways.
23:09:44 <Gonozal_VIII> strange, routemarkers don't compile at all
23:09:55 <peter1138> possibly a simple solution:
23:10:08 <peter1138> 1) don't allow reserving track with a vehicle on it
23:10:26 <peter1138> 2) don't allow a vehicle to travel over any reserved track except its own
23:10:52 <peter1138> probably would result in weird behaviour, but hopefully no crashes
23:11:26 <peter1138> maybe it would be stupid and defeat the point of having signals, heh
23:11:41 <michi_cc> peter1138: one-sided signals doesn't work either, because those signals don't propagate an occupied block. changing this would create almost unlimited block sizes in the signal updater
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23:19:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> now we need presignals 3 tiles before the main signal
23:20:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> presignal distance in germany is 1000m
23:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> so any train not running on LZB must have breaking distance of max. 1000m
23:20:58 <DJ-Nekkid> btw, your patch seem to work nicely, exept when trains are started at the exact same tick
23:21:31 <DJ-Nekkid> and sometimes not :)
23:22:14 <Gonozal_VIII> openttd is not multithreaded, shouldn't be possible to start trains at the same time
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23:22:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12067 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Cleanup: Codestyle on loading object references
23:23:15 <DJ-Nekkid> guess same time is a matter of opinion...
23:23:40 <DJ-Nekkid> 4 depots, and a 4 line station with some zigzag's
23:24:08 <DJ-Nekkid> then a station 90 degrees to the sigzag, and all of them crash into eachother
23:24:21 <DJ-Nekkid> btw, they have stationA-stationB in their list
23:25:43 <peter1138> savegame or it never happened
23:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> michi_cc: another option, in the old patch, PBS would not work unless all signals leading into the block were PBS
23:26:04 <DJ-Nekkid> it was made with the Gonozal_VIIIIN tho :)
23:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> so they would behave like normal signals instead
23:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> now what did i start there :p
23:27:13 <peter1138> possible but checking for non-pbs signals all the time is... expensive.
23:27:41 <Tefad> why would you need to poll
23:28:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:29:33 <DJ-Nekkid> peter1138: check pm for savegame
23:30:00 <DJ-Nekkid> open the all trains window, and press green flag
23:30:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... new engine and new livery... funny
23:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> and an engine changed livery without asking? how does that work...
23:32:38 <peter1138> DJ-Nekkid, you seem to be using an outdated version; it won't load.
23:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> no really, my blue E 10, changed to cream/blue
23:33:33 <DJ-Nekkid> it were made with that Gonozal_VIII-integrated thingy
23:33:43 <DJ-Nekkid> can send you the windows binerys if u want
23:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> but not the cream/red ones
23:34:59 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2, ottd bug? dbsetxl bug?
23:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> but the new BR 181 are completely blue
23:35:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm assuming DBSet bug
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23:35:49 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: DB coloring sceme bug.
23:37:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> all the livery stuff wasn't really working when i last got into this phase
23:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> so i'm exploring something new now...
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23:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> now that they are all repainted, i may as well repaint the wagons, too
23:38:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> i still have an E 16 in brown colour
23:38:47 <peter1138> hmm, well, does it do that in TTDPatch...
23:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> and one in green
23:40:09 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: Not all locomotives got repainted. Smoe earlier or later than others and some had a totally different color sceme. But that is a bug in the original color sceme, not in the DBset.
23:41:14 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm fjb, you didn't write locomotions
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23:42:29 <Gonozal_VIII> you always wrote locomotions... i'm used to that... why did you change that?
23:42:59 <fjb> Because I looked into the dictionary.
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23:43:28 <Gonozal_VIII> damn you dictionary!
23:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: that sentence does not make sense
23:44:43 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: What doesn't make sense?
23:44:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> engines should never change colour outside a depot
23:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> anything else is a bug
23:45:02 <fjb> Oh, you didn't say outside the depot.
23:45:36 <Gonozal_VIII> if i understood the newgrf specs right, they can change when they were empty and load again
23:46:16 <DaleStan> Engines can change colour whenever the GRF author wants them to. Every game tick, even.
23:46:51 * fjb just never saw that outside a depot.
23:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> DaleStan: yes, but it is a misdesign of the grf, in that case
23:47:18 <Gonozal_VIII> i wouldn't want to change them outside a depot
23:49:04 <DaleStan> I didn't say it was a good idea, nor that it was useful. Just that it was possible.
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23:50:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, sure it's possible, otherwise it'd not have happened
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23:57:28 <Gonozal_VIII> i got routemarkers to compile but with a shitload of warnings
23:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> sooo... they just offered me the 181 with 160km/h, why would i then get a 111 with 150km/h?
23:58:07 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: What are you doing? Updating ChrisIN?
23:58:26 <Gonozal_VIII> no i just updated and merged some patches
23:58:33 <fjb> BR 181 was never that reliable.
23:58:58 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Why routemarkers? There are programmable way points.
23:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't really care about reliability
23:59:36 <Gonozal_VIII> routemarkers could be nice inside pbs junctions to let the trains take the least interfearing path
23:59:58 <Gonozal_VIII> because they fear it!
continue to next day ⏵
