IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-02-04
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01:16:57 <fjb> Hm, please no een longer long vehicles...
01:19:52 <Gonozal_VIII> nobody wrote anything?
01:20:55 * fjb doesn't care for superbowl.
01:22:36 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't care for any sports on tv but even less for stuff like american football or baseball
01:34:29 <Gonozal_VIII> "Please George do not make LV5s shorter." <-- i don't agree with that.. if the scale doesn't fit into the boxes, the scale should be changed, not the box size
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01:36:14 <Gonozal_VIII> i wouldn't mind different scales even within the same set
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01:45:41 <fjb> Yes, TTD has no scale, but LV4 vehicles already look out of place.
01:45:58 <Gonozal_VIII> that's what i mean
01:46:03 <Gonozal_VIII> he should use a smaller scale
01:46:18 <Gonozal_VIII> and maybe different scale for early and new vehicles
01:46:50 <fjb> It is harder to draw the vehicles then but the railway set designers are showing what you can do with that few pixels.
01:48:24 <fjb> Long vehicle are too long, grvts are looking too simple.
01:49:23 <Gonozal_VIII> well they are supposed to be simple
01:49:30 <Gonozal_VIII> like the originals
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01:50:29 <fjb> They don't even have tires.
01:50:52 <fjb> And you can sometimes not tell which gerneration a vehicle is.
01:51:00 <Cavalier92> Hey gang - newbie here with a perplexing issue i cant find covered in the forums
01:51:23 <Cavalier92> all of the available vehicals are greyed out - even after i set the year to somewhere in the middle
01:51:33 <Cavalier92> any help on this one?
01:52:02 <Cavalier92> the box is grey - no vehicles are available for purchare
01:52:07 <Cavalier92> they are therein the list
01:52:11 <Cavalier92> but cant be bought
01:52:24 <Gonozal_VIII> you mean the autoreplace window?
01:52:25 <fjb> Where do you try to buy them?
01:52:33 <Gonozal_VIII> grey vehicles on the left side?
01:52:43 <Cavalier92> in in the new road vehicles box
01:53:06 <Cavalier92> im running openttd 0.5.3 with my origial TTD files off the CD
01:53:14 <Gonozal_VIII> they can only be bought inside a depot
01:53:58 <Cavalier92> it's bneen too many eayrs
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01:54:33 <Cavalier92> fjb - yeha many years back - i guess i need to re-read
01:54:40 <Cavalier92> thanks all for your help - its a great product
01:55:29 <Gonozal_VIII> i never read any manual^^
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01:57:41 <fjb> But reading the manual helps if you can't get something to work.
02:01:07 <Gonozal_VIII> or you could just scream and cry and hit your face onto the wall until the problem goes away
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02:18:06 * fjb votes for road / railroad crossings in tunnels. There is a light at the end of the tunnel...
02:18:30 * Gonozal_VIII votes for anything inside tunnels
02:20:32 <fjb> But crossings would be most fun. :-)
02:20:51 <Gonozal_VIII> underground explosions?^^
02:21:22 <fjb> Maybe it would be more safe. You see the trains earlier.
02:21:36 <fjb> At least the light of the train.
02:21:57 <Gonozal_VIII> not if the tunnel is lit all the time...
02:22:16 <Gonozal_VIII> most tunnels have light :-)
02:22:39 <fjb> But railroad tunnels are usually not lit.
02:23:02 <Gonozal_VIII> crossing has to be for the rvs
02:23:19 <fjb> Don't lit the whole tunnel.
02:23:49 <Gonozal_VIII> you can't see around the corner from the road tunnel..
02:24:19 <fjb> Use mirrors like at some road crossings.
02:25:05 <fjb> And if somebody doesn't see the mirror you have fun. :-)
02:25:23 <Gonozal_VIII> rvs never look ahead :-)
02:27:04 <fjb> They should not look ahead, they should look to the side...
02:28:05 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess the problem is not with the rvs but with the trains.... don't turn the crossings read early enough
02:28:55 <fjb> Half a tile in front of the crossing.
02:30:42 <Gonozal_VIII> so when a train is a half tile away, rvs can still enter... they have to travel a full tile while the train travels a half
02:30:59 <Gonozal_VIII> full tile + length
02:57:59 <SmatZ> there is 'Tunnel crossing' cheat :)
02:58:27 <Gonozal_VIII> well yes... but that sucks^^
02:59:49 <Gonozal_VIII> would only make sense for longer tunnels and they can ruin the network because of the signal distance
03:05:35 * sHELL votes for tubetransport after maglev
03:06:22 <Gonozal_VIII> after maglev? kind of misplaced... tubes have been around much longer
03:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> so, who had bet for who to win, and who was right?
03:06:56 <Gonozal_VIII> or you mean tubes like in futurama?
03:07:20 <Gonozal_VIII> not tubes like what they call the london subway...
03:08:30 <sHELL> see if I can find a picture of it
03:09:59 <Gonozal_VIII> they wanted to build something like that in germany, called something like cargo cab
03:10:19 <sHELL> yeah, the got the same idea here in rotterdam
03:10:40 <Gonozal_VIII> quite slow small vehicles inside underground tubes
03:11:23 <sHELL> the idea that I herd, it will be realy fast
03:11:37 <Gonozal_VIII> something like 30 km/h
03:11:52 <Gonozal_VIII> faster than average truck speed in that area
03:12:27 <sHELL> ah well, there working on those special bus lanes first
03:12:53 <sHELL> yeah, still in development
03:13:06 <Gonozal_VIII> what's so special about it?
03:13:22 <sHELL> its a line from the west to north of holland
03:13:52 <Tefad> in the US there are HOV lanes
03:14:02 <sHELL> from what I read the busses will go at an avarage speed of 150km/h
03:14:29 <sHELL> the keep bitching that maglev is to expensive :/
03:14:31 <Gonozal_VIII> that's a nice speed... but why busses and not trains?
03:14:44 <Gonozal_VIII> well, maglev IS too expensive
03:14:48 <sHELL> design error back in the 1930's :/
03:15:05 <Gonozal_VIII> you can go 300 with conventional rails and that's much cheaper
03:15:20 <sHELL> the dyke connecting holland with the north of the netherlands can't support train rail
03:15:58 <De_ghosty> noooooooooo the 450 passanger dormont tram is gone111
03:16:48 <sHELL> the TGV is to expensive as well..
03:17:30 <sHELL> the talys is way to expensive :/
03:18:03 <sHELL> here in holland the call it the furcoat line -_-
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03:18:41 <sHELL> altho, imho the train is the future
03:19:02 <sHELL> used the shinkansen in japan alot... got I love that transportation system
03:20:55 <Gonozal_VIII> our normal train engines are able to go 350 km/h :-)
03:20:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... why do i have a load of 9 when almost nothing is running?
03:21:07 <Gonozal_VIII> waggons and rails are not made for that
03:21:50 <sHELL> hmmm yeah, I did notice that most of the shinkansen only top 300
03:21:52 <Gonozal_VIII> how's 900% possible?
03:22:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> means on average, 9 processes want to access the same ressources
03:23:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> 4:23am an 8 Tage 6:56, 7 Benutzer, Durchschnittslast: 9,49, 7,03, 5,88
03:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> x server and 6 open shells?
03:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it might be about the fact that i switched to the open source graphics driver
03:26:58 <Gonozal_VIII> sooo driver doesn't work too well with your hardware?
03:27:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> it might not do as much hardware acceleration during video playback (TV)
03:28:42 <Gonozal_VIII> i have a tv smiley :D
03:31:04 <Gonozal_VIII> (bttf) a delorean :D
03:33:08 * Sacro accelerates Gonozal_VIII to 88mph
03:33:30 * Gonozal_VIII jumps through time
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05:55:23 <Gonozal_VIII> yay, shores under player owned land and
05:55:48 <ln-> you haven't slept at all, have you?
05:56:06 <Gonozal_VIII> but i have player owned land with shores^^
05:56:55 <Gonozal_VIII> only in temperate for now and it's a hack because i didn't change the map array buuuut... it works^^
05:57:51 <Gonozal_VIII> switch (ti->tileh) {
05:57:51 <Gonozal_VIII> if (GetTileType(TILE_ADDXY(ti->tile, -1, 0)) == MP_WATER || GetTileType(TILE_ADDXY(ti->tile, 0, 1)) == MP_WATER) {
05:58:32 <Gonozal_VIII> did i mention it's a hack?^^
06:00:23 <Gonozal_VIII> and it generates shores next to canals...
06:01:06 <Gonozal_VIII> but there's not water status stored in unmovables so what should a poor gono do
06:02:23 <Gonozal_VIII> btw canal sprite creeps some green into the neighbouring tile.. that's not nice
06:17:18 <ln-> it's in the water, it may corrode.
06:17:40 <Gonozal_VIII> signs in water exist...
06:18:07 <Gonozal_VIII> i've seen them in lakes for boats...
06:19:00 <Gonozal_VIII> to change the position of the sign wouldn't be too hard... but the whole thing is a hack
06:20:53 <Gonozal_VIII> every tiletype should have the same 6 (or 8) bits reserved for terrain type
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06:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> is that the same shape as in the picture explaining tileh?
06:36:37 <Gonozal_VIII> even timed the pause to get that tile on the water :-)
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08:04:52 <Gonozal_VIII> every tile should have that
08:05:20 <Gonozal_VIII> all climate zones possible on every map and no wasted bits
08:07:26 <peter1138> why would a water tile need that?
08:07:31 <peter1138> seems pretty wasted to me
08:07:48 <hylje> but fresh water certainly
08:08:00 <peter1138> what does density have to do with town houses?
08:08:40 <Gonozal_VIII> ok, first 3 bits would be enough for those
08:10:28 <Gonozal_VIII> as long as there are no partially snowed houses or houses that start on bare land and grass grows slowly
08:11:14 <Gonozal_VIII> well, there are houses that don't cover the whole tile
08:20:33 <Gonozal_VIII> and you have a single method to set/get the ground type for every tile
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08:42:07 <Tron> i see, nothing has changed
08:42:48 <Gonozal_VIII> hi tron :-) nothing has changed?
08:43:02 <Tron> yes, still the same redundant and wrong comments everywhere
08:44:05 <Tron> i just took a look into a random file and the first thing i saw was wrong documentation
08:44:11 <Tron> * This function returns the number of trees of a tile (1-4).
08:44:11 <Tron> * The tile must be contains at least one tree or be more specific: it must be
08:45:35 <Zoeff> Well what do you want, a cookie?
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09:26:40 <Gekz> he just let out a hard fart.
09:32:05 <Tron> peter1138: please fix the documentation of GetTreeCount() and its siblings. it's the worst kind of comments: it's redundant AND wrong
09:33:46 <Tron> AddTreeCount() is even worse
09:33:55 <Tron> 0 does not mean no trees
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09:37:09 <Noldo> how about making a diff?
09:38:30 <Tron> Noldo: if somebody hadn't revoked my commit rights (without notifying me, i might add, which is not exactly nice) it would be fixed already
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10:03:00 <HMage> hey, do you have any idea why gprof would say that 'no time was accumulated'?
10:04:38 <Tron> forgot to link with -pg?
10:23:52 <peter1138> Bah, why can't weekdays and weekends be swapped around?
10:25:08 <Gekz> peter1138: because I said so
10:25:44 <Gekz> peter1138: I will change it around if you can spell "What in the hells is your name or I shall smite thee with all the power that I have amassed from my drug labs across South America" in French
10:27:36 <peter1138> Belugas, help me out!
10:28:32 <Tron> peter1138: mind that he did not set a time limit
10:37:06 <peter1138> Hmm, CD ripping at 20x...
10:58:07 <ln-> nobody has fixed the error mentioned by Tron.
11:02:18 * peter1138 is currently busy and without time to look at it :(
11:02:24 <peter1138> (Hence the weekend thing, heh)
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11:16:26 <michi_cc> anybody compiling with gcc here?
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11:26:55 * peter1138 has no idea what the comments should be
11:28:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12054 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Cleanup: Use VehicleType instead of byte for vehicle types...
11:38:25 <peter1138> ,.../* Check for occupied track */
11:39:28 <Tron> "To disallow passing through a PBS signal from behind, place a no-entry signal nearby facing the direction from which trains are not supposed to pass. Most times this should not be neccessary as passing a signal from behind is penalized by the pathfinder." *bewildered*
11:40:35 <michi_cc> What does bewilder you?
11:47:22 <michi_cc> well, in my patch an one-way pbs signal can be passed from behind (the side with no lights), not like the normal signals which do not allow that. If you absolutly don't want that, place a no-entry signal somewhere along.
11:48:48 <peter1138> hmm, one-way signals placed by default?
11:49:05 <peter1138> can't toggle pbs status
11:49:38 <michi_cc> design decision, you can always switch the patch setting off again
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11:50:06 <Tron> why the change in the one-way behaviour?
11:50:53 <peter1138> michi_cc, ah, there is some interaction with the signal gui window then
11:51:21 <Tron> it breaks established behaviour for no good reason
11:51:29 <Tron> you should not cascade trinary operators
11:52:02 <Tron> + byte track_b = GB(_m[t].m2, 8, 3);
11:52:02 <Tron> + Track track = (Track)(track_b - 1); // map array saves Track+1
11:52:02 <Tron> + return track_b ? (TrackBits)(TrackToTrackBits(track) | (HasBit(_m[t].m2, 11) ? TrackToTrackBits(TrackToOppositeTrack(track)) : 0)) : TRACK_BIT_NONE;
11:52:20 <Tron> if (track_b == 0) return TRACK_BIT_NONE;
11:52:35 <michi_cc> peter1138: the patch setting only controls what the signal tool will build. I could always switch it back to cycle all possible signal types
11:53:11 <peter1138> my signals are all red
11:53:25 <peter1138> this is fine, as it's default red
11:53:34 <peter1138> however, this stops yapf from trying to use a two-way signal
11:53:39 <Tron> also you should use for (; cond; incr) { /* foo */ } instead of while (cond) { /* foo */ incr; }
11:54:19 <Tron> + assert(IsPlainRailTile(t) && b != INVALID_TRACK_BIT && !TracksOverlap(b));
11:54:29 <michi_cc> well, two-way pbs signals are not usefull the way I implemented it anyway
11:54:31 <Tron> do not concatenate conditions in assert()s with &&
11:54:53 <Tron> because you can tell right away, which part failed
11:55:27 <Tron> exception: range checks, assert(23 <= x && x < 42); is fine
11:55:57 <Tron> ((byte)(b != TRACK_BIT_NONE)) & 1
11:58:18 * peter1138 attempts to fool IE6 into not fucking up
11:58:23 <peter1138> tricky job, i must say
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12:07:24 <TinoDidriksen> Do you have to? These days I tend to ignore IE6.
12:13:00 <peter1138> TinoDidriksen, well i tried but the client didn't like it ;(
12:13:38 <TinoDidriksen> Did you mention MS will push IE7 to everyone soon? Not that it's super, but it's a point.
12:13:48 <Tron> + if (IsPresignalEntry(tile, TrackdirToTrack(trackdir)) && (flags & SF_EXIT && !(flags & SF_GREEN))) newstate = SIGNAL_STATE_RED;
12:15:57 <Tron> + } else if ((flags & SF_TRAIN) || (flags & SF_EXIT && !(flags & SF_GREEN) || (flags & SF_FULL))) {
12:16:05 <Tron> again confusing and redundant
12:17:05 <michi_cc> which parentheses bother you? around the & terms?
12:17:07 <TinoDidriksen> I find that parantheses make it easier to read.
12:18:00 <TinoDidriksen> Only thing is that it's not consistent style, even in that one line.
12:18:19 <Tron> and yes, the () around the & are redundant, too
12:19:09 <TinoDidriksen> I'd write it as ((flags & SF_TRAIN) || ((flags & SF_EXIT) && !(flags & SF_GREEN) || (flags & SF_FULL)))
12:19:12 <michi_cc> a || (b && c) || d better? I know, these parens are redundant as well, but I think this is better for readability
12:19:36 <Tron> a || (b && c || d) is certainly only confusing
12:20:06 <TinoDidriksen> It shows how the author was thinking when he wrote it.
12:20:07 <Tron> use a || (b && c) || d if you really need to silence gcc
12:20:17 <Tron> TinoDidriksen: he didn't write it
12:20:33 <Tron> he only modified the line
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12:20:40 <Tron> and changed the parentheses
12:21:02 <Tron> forcing || into right-associativity /is/ confusing
12:21:33 <Tron> also many cascaded pairs of parentheses is hard to read, too
12:21:42 <michi_cc> a & b with or without parenthesis around?
12:22:29 <Tron> i prefer without, so it does not unnecessarily increase the global parentheses cound. stuff like three closing parentheses in a row is hard to decipher
12:23:11 <Tron> in any case do not force || and && into right-associativity
12:23:14 <TinoDidriksen> Heh, style is fun. I find lots of parans easier to decipher. Faster to see where things are.
12:23:40 <michi_cc> any other takers? I don't particularly care, but some people might not be that fluent in c operator precedence
12:24:15 <Tron> if they aren't fluent in the very basics of the tool they are using, then they should not use the tool. they'll only hurt themselves
12:25:25 <Tron> but my earlier question still is unasnwered: why the fundamental change in behaviour of one-way signals, which only makes using them error prone, without a good reason?
12:27:05 <michi_cc> because I don't like the old way pbs worked. nobody is forced to use my patch
12:27:12 <peter1138> it still has the flaw of the old pbs
12:27:21 <peter1138> it won't reserve a path to a non-pbs signal
12:28:14 <peter1138> i think you at least need default-noentry one-way signals, with passable 'one-way' as a toggle per signal or something
12:28:28 <peter1138> it seems to be useful for stations but not much else
12:28:50 <michi_cc> it does reserve paths to normal signals, if it doesn't this is a bug
12:29:28 <Tron> + /* A signal tile can't be a junction tile */
12:29:28 <Tron> + assert(KillFirstBit(bits) == TRACK_BIT_NONE);
12:29:35 <Tron> a tile with two parallel tracks?
12:30:13 <michi_cc> TrackBits bits = GetTrackBits(next_tile) & DiagdirReachesTracks(dir);
12:30:21 <michi_cc> can two parallel tracks be reached at once?
12:31:31 <Tron> hardly. use better variable names. "bits" says nothing, something like "reachable" would be better
12:33:59 <peter1138> heh, changing a signal direction when a train is stopped there causes it to go through
12:37:26 <Tron> + do { if (!ft.Follow(tile, td)) break; /* stuff */ } while (true)
12:37:39 <Tron> while (ft.Follow(tile, td)) { /* stuff */ }
12:40:02 <Tron> + if (!(dont_free_tile && (ft.m_is_station || ft.m_is_tunnel || ft.m_is_bridge))) ClearPathReservation(tile, td);
12:41:22 <Tron> also a negation in a variable name is not good
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12:45:23 <Progman> if (entry->not_unused !== false) { } ;)
12:47:46 <Tron> why stop with comparing one boolean?
12:47:51 <Tron> if (x == false == false) {}
12:49:55 <michi_cc> !(a || b || c) or !a && !b && !c ?
12:51:23 <Tron> thinking in negations is hard
12:53:13 <Progman> depend on the checks imo
12:53:32 <Tron> !(a && (b || c || d)) is hard to parse
12:53:39 <Tron> try to keep things in DNF
12:53:41 <Progman> think of: file != "." && file != ".."
12:53:59 <Tron> well, if != is a negation ...
12:54:10 <Progman> < Progman> depend on the checks imo
12:54:12 <Tron> !(file == ".") is certainly worse
12:54:24 <Tron> i don't regard != a negation of something
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12:54:43 <Tron> you could argue the same way for < and >= then, too
12:55:29 <Tron> (though if the if has both then and else, i'll probably prefer if (x == a || x == b) {} else {} and swap then and else)
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13:20:42 <peter1138> tesco have pringles for 49p instead of £1.50
13:25:47 <ln-> what's that in schillings and pences?
13:26:02 <SmatZ> cheap, but I won't buy pringles anyway :-p
13:28:07 <peter1138> SmatZ, you don't like their smack-coated goodness? heh
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13:41:45 <michi_cc> Vikthor: how did you manage to do that? I can't reproduce it
13:46:14 <peter1138> STUPID STUPID STUPID
13:54:03 <SmatZ> peter1138: what is stupid?
13:55:50 <peter1138> with a headphone socket on them
13:56:03 <peter1138> plug in headphones and it doesn't turn the sub off :o
13:57:10 <orudge`> well, they probably detected that your headphones had crappy bass or something :p
13:57:37 <peter1138> probably, they're only headphones...
13:58:21 <orudge`> the bass in my headphones is fairly decent
14:08:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12055 /trunk/src/pathfind.cpp: -Fix: another way to fix AI trying to build road through depots
14:14:38 <SpComb> myottd going down for installing-openwrt-onto-my-router purposes. There's actually two clients connected to myottd servers, out of a total of 30 servers or so...
14:27:45 <Belugas> just... yeah. So far, no big crisis hehe
14:30:09 <peter1138> # you can't get away
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14:49:07 <Vikthor> michi_cc: I don't know. I have just build the track, and launched the trains(with orders). Should I upload save to forums?
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15:03:57 <orudge`> YES, YOU SHOULD BE SORRY
15:06:01 <Amis> i still dont know why they produce keyboard with capslocks on it, i never use it, only when a game need it
15:08:30 *** LordAzamath has left #openttd
15:12:05 <peter1138> [233260.940376] BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000000
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15:14:11 <saati> Amis: for oldskool sql coders
15:27:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12056 /trunk/src/ (tunnelbridge_map.h yapf/yapf_rail.cpp): -Fix [FS#1704]: Enable YAPF to start searching inside a wormhole.
15:28:10 <Progman> but indeed funny changelog line ;)
15:31:27 <Belugas> totally logical to me, nothing funny about it
15:32:31 <Amis> thats why its funny... just started thinking if the wormhole is a feature or something in ottd :D
15:32:42 <GoneWacko> I see the hole but where's the worm?
15:33:15 <Belugas> that is not our type of wormhole
15:38:32 <Belugas> the worm is the train :D
15:39:54 <frosch123> wormholes are danger, you might end up in locomotion on the other side :)
15:44:17 <Amis> is it possible to place stops on one-way roads?
15:45:04 <Belugas> try it and tell us if you can ;)
15:45:22 <frosch123> and if it works, report is as bug :)
15:46:00 <Amis> well its works, it replace the road with the normal one
15:46:27 <Amis> so the buses/trucks will use only one side of the stop
15:47:04 <frosch123> But the oneway-restriction was removed, wasn't it?
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15:56:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12057 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: slowdown train when approaching 90deg turn when 90deg turns are forbidden
15:58:24 <yorick> Brianetta, I have gotten the autopilot to work
16:00:32 <yorick> it turns out that the email option has to be filled in
16:00:41 <fjb> Hi frosch123, will I see you again this evening?
16:01:11 <frosch123> I am planning so, at least :)
16:04:01 <yorick> can I find Tk somewhere?
16:08:28 * yorick is happy with getting the autopilot to work without having TCL or any of the libs installed :)
16:09:12 <yorick> I'm compiling Tk right now
16:10:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> <peter1138> however, this stops yapf from trying to use a two-way signal <- there's a patch option for that
16:11:08 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2, yes, but when all two-ways are default red, it'll never work
16:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> "patch yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol off" or something
16:13:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i said right from the beginning this option should be off by default
16:15:13 <Belugas> Amis, all is fine if the one-way restriction is removed too
16:15:19 <Belugas> and i thuink it is the case
16:18:50 <yorick> :( can't compile, don't have TCL installed
16:18:59 <yorick> it needs TclConfig.tcl
16:19:15 <yorick> anyone that has the Tk lib for windows precompiled?
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16:24:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12058 /trunk/src/npf.cpp:
16:24:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: Teach NPF where road vehicles and trams can reverse.
16:24:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: Ships can drive through opponents' ship depots. (Thanks SmatZ)
16:24:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Split NPFFollowTrack() in smaller parts.
16:25:07 <OTTD> Is there anybody who is able to tell me how to compile .patch files?
16:25:30 <saati> OTTD: you dont compile patch files
16:25:35 <frosch123> Try BuildOTTD from the sticky post in the development forum
16:25:43 <saati> OTTD: you patch the source with it, and than compile that
16:26:18 <OTTD> ok I have BuildOTTD installed but what do i have to do?
16:26:47 <Belugas> wasn't there a readme, or a manual on how to do it?
16:26:55 <frosch123> I think it is on the wiki
16:26:58 <Belugas> or a forum page or something?
16:27:35 <OTTD> BuildOTTD says unknow file foramt
16:35:37 <peter1138> frosch123, you can now block canals easily
16:39:26 <peter1138> well, not canals, but other non-owned paths
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16:42:17 <DaleStan> Belugas: At newgrf.cpp:2120. prop 24 is a word, not a doubleword.
16:46:01 <Belugas> i'll change that as soon as i humanly can
16:46:52 <glx> I can do it if you want Belugas
16:46:57 <Belugas> DaleStan, any problems if i introduce text properties for bridges?
16:47:05 <Belugas> thansk, glx, it would be appreciated
16:47:21 <Belugas> i will not be able to have lunch today :S
16:47:25 <Belugas> therefor, no time for ottd
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16:48:04 <DaleStan> Like new names, or something else?
16:48:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12059 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r12041): industries prop 24 is a word
16:49:16 <peter1138> instead of relying on replacing the original text, i believe
16:50:29 <Belugas> exact, peter1138 and DaleStan
16:52:12 <DJ-Nekkid> DaleStan: (or someone) im coding a train, and the 1st wagin behind the MU head is the one with the phanto. but when it turn that wagon "jumps" ... is it possible to make it so that it's the first wagon in --> direction, and the last in <-- direction? currently is my Var2 this; -1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00 where BB is phanto'ed wagon, and BA is normal one
16:52:57 <peter1138> yes it is but not in ottd
16:53:07 <glx> you need something unimplemented ;)
16:53:16 <peter1138> and you need some varaction2 magic
16:53:17 <DaleStan> Belugas: Shouldn't be too much of a problem; obviously the names for Open's extra bridges won't work.
16:53:57 <DJ-Nekkid> so my best bet would be a active panto, and unactive panto wagon, and but one at each end
16:54:09 <Belugas> DaleStan: you mean they will not work in ttdp? agreed, since for now we have 2 more
16:54:20 <Belugas> and, for now, they are based on direct ids
16:54:20 <DaleStan> DJ-Nekkid: It's modflags (var FE/FF) bit 8.
16:55:08 <DJ-Nekkid> oh... ill nvm that then...
16:55:56 <glx> DJ-Nekkid: you should always design grfs for ttdpatch (and hope they'll work in ottd ;) )
16:56:32 * peter1138 mumbles about certain grf authors working around ottd newgrf bugs instead of reporting them
16:56:49 <DJ-Nekkid> well, im currently in my limit of my coding abilities...
16:57:11 <DJ-Nekkid> and im thinking i should prioritize to make the set finished, and then make advanced features when done
16:57:19 <DJ-Nekkid> and perhaps my skills will increase in the prosess
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16:58:09 <glx> if they miss a newgrf feature and have a grf working in ttdp we can implement the missing stuff and check if it works
16:58:36 * DJ-Nekkid hides in a corner, probably but not sure, with guilt
16:59:11 <DaleStan> Belugas: Yeah. Defining data for Open's two extra bridges will cause TTDPatch to do undefined things.
16:59:12 <DaleStan> Finding the texts won't be hard, but patching them may be more interesting; I haven't looked yet.
17:01:11 <Belugas> DaleStan: So i should wait until you say go. It's not an urgent matter tough. Note that I do have a few new properties in mind for bridges.
17:01:52 <peter1138> "I seriously doubt that fast forward makes the game move as fast as your computer is able to run it."
17:03:26 <glx> "...graphics card is better in the C2D system" <-- not relevant ;)
17:03:39 <DaleStan> Worst case scenario, we document "In Patch change Text IDs 500E..5014 and 501B..5028 instead of setting these Text IDs."
17:04:32 <Belugas> indeed. Although not a nice work around :). But i can live with it
17:05:06 <peter1138> so many different methods to set text ids :o
17:05:18 <peter1138> well, stations & station classes have their own way, anyway
17:15:22 <DaleStan> Belugas: OK. Quite easy, for all three of the ID spaces. Three easily locatable TTD tables to modify.
17:16:49 <DaleStan> If the three properties you have in mind are "purchase name", "Road query name" and "Rail query name", anyway. If you want different names for "rail purchase" and "road purchase", then I'll have to change the (two) accesses instead. Which is not much harder.
17:16:55 <Belugas> yes, indeed. 3 strings. 1 for purchase and two for ingame description (road/rail)
17:17:17 <Belugas> we do have only 3 strings too
17:17:29 <Belugas> so, adding your idea would not be too hard weither in here
17:18:12 <Belugas> the new string will be of course based on the original purchase one
17:18:19 <joey_> Hey how do I include newGRFs into my Server when I only have putty for that?
17:18:25 <joey_> what do I have to change in the .cfg?
17:18:27 *** joey_ is now known as DJGummikuh
17:18:44 <saati> openttd devs: wouldn't you like to put in new trams after 1996?
17:19:13 <Ammler> DJGummikuh: configure it local, save and upload it to server
17:19:24 <Ammler> and load the server with that save
17:20:01 <Belugas> saati, you can do it yourself, if you wish. It is called writing a grf
17:20:15 <DJ-Nekkid> hey DaleStan: to that line i gave you earlier, (-1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00
17:20:22 <DJ-Nekkid> there is more to that...
17:20:33 <saati> Belugas: the grf file control the names/properties of vehicles?
17:21:10 <saati> i thought it's just the graphics
17:21:45 <saati> thanks, i'll look into it then
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17:23:05 <saati> another question: will the 0.6.0 include the tram grf or will it be an extra download still?
17:23:40 <Ammler> saati: which trams would you include?
17:25:02 <DJGummikuh> is it possible that r12059 or so can't handle newgrfs correctly?
17:25:24 <DJ-Nekkid> hey DaleStan: to that line i gave you earlier, (-1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00) can i add 40 00 BB 01 BC 00 01 01 (before the BA 00 that is the default), and it will add another grapics at the end of the train?
17:25:32 <DJGummikuh> I'm trying to add the aviator newGRF and it puts my CPU to 100% and does nothing
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17:26:37 <DaleStan> Paste the whole sprite please, DJ-Nekkid.
17:27:05 <DaleStan> After the adding, that is.
17:27:06 <DJ-Nekkid> -1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 40 00 BB 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00
17:27:25 <Phantasm> Using the smooth economy (more, smaller changes) patch with fluctuating economy difficulity setting, the amount of industries goes absurdly low on a big map. Starting with very low number of industries there were something like 150-200 industries on 1024x1024 map. Now after playing 30 years (1950->1980), there are only 69 industries left. My guessing is that the problem comes from odds of new industries being made not changing based on map size.
17:27:30 <DJ-Nekkid> -1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 40 00 BB 01 CB 00 01 01 BA 00
17:27:34 <DJ-Nekkid> that would be the correct one
17:27:43 <DJ-Nekkid> where CB is the wagon at the end
17:28:44 <Phantasm> Also with smooth economy patch, when ever an industry production drops 50%, there will immediately be closure of the industry. Thus, it could just state it closes instead of two messages.
17:29:00 <Phantasm> Using 0.6.0-beta3 version.
17:29:56 <saati> yeah, i ran into that too
17:30:09 <saati> many industries close down soon\
17:30:22 <saati> before i have time to get some stuff there to keep them going
17:30:37 <Phantasm> To compensate the normal odds of industries going down when not used, there should be very high odds of new indutries starting on big maps.
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17:34:15 <Belugas> Phantasm, you are totally wrong, sorry. smooth economy does not change the appearance of industries, nor at creation nor ingame
17:34:28 <Belugas> it has only impact on production
17:34:55 <saati> Belugas: than what closes down the industrys?
17:34:59 <Belugas> and i pretty much do doubt that 50% IMMEDIATE closure figure too...
17:35:08 <Phantasm> Belugas: I never stated smooth economy had anything to do with that. I just stated that is the setting being used. And I haven't tested with other setting, so I can't say how it goes there.
17:35:37 <Belugas> well... that is what i read out of your line...
17:35:53 <Phantasm> Anyway the problems is: Industry amount goes to way too low on big maps.
17:36:05 <Belugas> saati, production, actually. and prodution decreases for quite a few reasons
17:36:22 <Belugas> Phantasm, you jsut have to serve them. and serve them well
17:36:39 <Belugas> they do not sit there just for the pleasure of the eyes
17:37:28 <Phantasm> Belugas: Are you saying that the amount of self-sustaining industries should be same on 2048x2048 map than in normal 256x256 map?
17:37:51 <Phantasm> Imho 64 times as big map should have 64 times the industries being alive without doing anything.
17:38:10 <Belugas> that is the case already
17:39:02 <Belugas> as the map grows, the number of industries grow too
17:39:12 <Phantasm> 1024x1024 is 16 times as big as 256x256, and I have a total of 69 industries left now and about 20 of those are operated at over 60%. That is 4.3 industries in 256x256 map.
17:39:15 <DaleStan> DJ-Nekkid: That parses as follows, assuming you fix <nvar>: Go to cID BB for value from 01 to 01, go to cID 40 for value from BB to 01 (! Inaccessable), go to cID CB for value from 01 to 01 (! Inaccessable; already caught), go to cID BA, else.
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17:39:53 <Phantasm> The start count of industries works just fine, but on big map the industries die off like there is no end. Then you are left with about same amount of unused industries as you would have been in 256x256 map.
17:40:28 <Belugas> num = (ind_spc->check_proc == CHECK_REFINERY || ind_spc->check_proc == CHECK_OIL_RIG) ? ScaleByMapSize1D(num) : ScaleByMapSize(num);
17:40:35 <Belugas> that's the line that scale them
17:40:39 <DaleStan> DJ-Nekkid: You can never have more than one <nvar> in a single action 2, and all <variable>/<varadjust> bits always appear before the first.
17:40:59 <Belugas> Phantasm: industry_cmd.cpp:1692 or something
17:41:28 <Belugas> Phantasm, if you do not serve them, of course they will die
17:41:51 <Phantasm> Belugas: In 256x256 map after 100 years. What would be about the amount of industries that are left alive unserved?
17:42:07 <Phantasm> Assuming all industries are unserved for the entire time.
17:42:09 <Belugas> the hell if i can answer you
17:44:07 <DaleStan> Belugas: you were complaining about prop 24 being a PITA a while back. Is the problem in testing for the "property set to 0" case?
17:44:08 <Phantasm> Ok, let's take it from this count.. On 1024x1024 map, after 30 years of gameplay, there are only 69 industries left (50 out of which are unserved, but let's even take the full count). Scaling that to 256x256 map gives 4.3 industries. That is 4-5 industries left (in addition to served industries) on normal sized map after 30 years of gameplay. Do you see something weird on that?
17:44:20 <peter1138> AI has destroyed cities :(
17:45:17 <Belugas> DaleStan, no, that is fine. It's more about how to implement properly the search of industries around the station withouth duplicating yeat another search pattern function
17:45:36 <Phantasm> Belugas: What I'm saying, is that the amount of unserved industries after long time isn't scaled on map size.
17:45:39 <Belugas> as soon as i can find a proper way of doing, i'm sure it will be easily done
17:46:13 <Phantasm> Belugas: That is, after say 1000 years of time to be sure, any size of map will have same amount of industries if none of them is served. There is no scaling whatsoever on that.
17:46:42 <Phantasm> Yes, unserved industries should die the same on all sized, but on 64 times bigger map, there should be 64 times as many new industries beginning.
17:47:06 <Belugas> how can that be scaled????
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17:47:30 <Belugas> -> /* 3% chance that we start a new industry */
17:47:51 <Belugas> it is 3% at 256*256, 3% at 1024*1024 and so on
17:49:27 <Belugas> So, if you do not serve them, i don't care. It is a big map? Not my problem. Yo can't serve them? same stuff. They all die? we all do
17:50:01 <Belugas> the process of closing an industry has nothing to care about the size of the map
17:50:22 <Belugas> it it the same law been applied to all industries, one per month
17:50:22 <Phantasm> Belugas: If you start a game on 256x256 map, all industries unserver the industries count over time is x(t). On 16 times as big map (1024x1024 for example) the x(0) is 16 times as big. But x(inf) is same on both. That is a problem. 16 times as big map area should have 16 times as many unserved industries alive just fine.
17:50:59 <Phantasm> Do you think that in one country, say England, there are same amount of industries spawned per month than in the whole world? As in all industries on the whole world are spawned in England.
17:51:44 <Phantasm> If the odds of industry spawning on 256x256 is 3% per month, then on 1024x1024 map it should be 16 times as much, that is 48%.
17:52:15 <DaleStan> 16 times as much as 3% is not 48%. Percentages don't multiply like that.
17:52:26 <Phantasm> DaleStan: Yes they do.
17:52:34 <DJGummikuh> in that case they do I believe
17:52:40 <Phantasm> If you want 16 times as many industries coming at any given time, they do multiply like that.
17:52:43 * Belugas gets out for some fresh air
17:53:01 <saati> it will spawn the whole map with lots of industries in a not so long time
17:53:13 <Phantasm> Give me a link to some dev thing where I should psot this to get more developers to see this.
17:53:34 <Phantasm> saati: And in 16 times as big map, thre should be 16 times as many industries.
17:54:48 <DaleStan> But if you're spawning them 16 times as often, you also have to test for closure 16 times as often, or it'll be unbalanced.
17:55:19 <Phantasm> DaleStan: Closure scales on map size.
17:55:38 <Phantasm> A single industry has same odds for closure. Thus 16 times as many industries cause closure 16 times as often.
17:55:56 <DaleStan> I thought Belugas just finished saying that Open updated one industry per month.
17:56:12 <DaleStan> Regardless of map size.
17:56:34 <Phantasm> Game mechanics state there is 4.5% odds for any industry to change production per month.
17:57:14 <Phantasm> That is for 200 industries that is 9 on average per month change production. For closing I don't know the exact way.
17:57:50 <Phantasm> But the outcome sure is that on 1024x1024 map the number of industries is way too low after time.
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18:16:45 <Belugas> DaleStan, not quite exactly...sorry... What i meant is that each and every industry will be updated once per month. so, if we have 40 industries, there will be 40 updates, 100 indus = 100 updates. Per month
18:17:06 <Belugas> i have been carried away and not payking attention to my words :S
18:18:11 <Belugas> [12:55] <Phantasm> A single industry has same odds for closure. Thus 16 times as many industries cause closure 16 times as often. <-- wrong. If it is unserved, maybe. but served, not.
18:18:25 <Belugas> and it all de-ends of the type of industries.
18:18:35 <Belugas> some have a longer life than others
18:18:47 <Belugas> and grf industries are even different
18:19:02 <Belugas> so making a rule out of logic is not really a good way to go
18:19:52 <Belugas> While I was walking, tough, i was thinking about that 3% chances. Maybe there can be some stuff to do about it. But for sure, a simple muliplication is not really welcome
18:20:02 <Belugas> should be something else
18:20:34 <Belugas> i just do not want to work on that right now, i have a cute little project i would like to do first
18:23:03 <Phantasm> It depends in whether the wanted outcome on 1024x1024 is 16 maps 'like' 256x256 or bigger distances between industries later on.
18:24:24 <Phantasm> Perhaps there could be a patch setting for it. Say normal (simple multiplication) and reduced (say, half scaled).
18:25:16 <Belugas> a patch! Why didn't I though about it! Of COURSE!
18:25:27 * orudge` patches Belugas's brain
18:25:46 <Phantasm> I'm talking about those settings in 'configure patches'.
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18:28:14 <Belugas> I perfectly know waht patches are, Phantasm. Adding a patch is not a problem as per say. The underground method it support has to be chosen first, if ever it is intented to be added.
18:28:22 <Belugas> that was a sarcasm, by the way...
18:28:51 <Belugas> and no, i will not make it (if ever i dare to do so) a multiplication stuff
18:28:56 * peter1138 awaits complication.
18:28:59 <Belugas> hello and wb peter1138 :)
18:29:04 <Phantasm> If we just multiply the odds for new industries popping up, the number of industries x(t) will equal to 16x(t) on 16 times bigger map assuming same percentage of industries is served on both. So, if players wanted to, they could divide a 1024x512 map into 8 sections of 256x256 maps and each 8 players could play equivalent 256x256 map single player game (without AIs) but with multiplayer so they can see eachothers.
18:29:14 * peter1138 awaits compilation. Totally different.
18:29:39 <Phantasm> Belugas: Well, on irc sarcasm works somewhat badly. Without knowing the other person, being sure if something is sarcasm or not is quite hard.
18:29:50 <Yorick> Brianetta, could you implement a server_name in the irc commands?
18:31:18 * Yorick dusts off a kitchen towel and slaps it at himself
18:32:33 <peter1138> Oh wait, too slow :/
18:33:05 <Yorick> yes, but I'm not going to make my own script :-P
18:33:54 <Phantasm> Belugas: Anyway, as it is currently, the outcome on significantly bigger maps than the normal is absurd. On a 2048x2048 map it would give an average distance of like 500 squares to nearest factory from production industry. So, something should be done at it.
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19:07:48 <DorpsGek> dih: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 21 hours, 6 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Bjarni> my HD is bigger than that
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19:23:13 <Forked> I really hate wireless networks.
19:23:16 <Prof_Frink> Now there's a scary thought. Over eleven hundred orudgen
19:24:02 * peter1138 wonders if there are any good scenarios with rivers.
19:24:31 * orudge` sets the army on Progman
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19:34:55 <Gonozal_VIII> is there a parameter to get make to compile in reverse alphabetical order? takes ages and then fails at yapf something...
19:36:05 <Gonozal_VIII> nvm failed faster this time...
19:47:42 <Gonozal_VIII> :-( can't get that patch to work
19:50:26 <michi_cc> Gonozal_VIII: you're talking about my pbs patch?
19:51:02 <michi_cc> which compiler? and you did download v2?
19:51:48 <Gonozal_VIII> compiler.. good question, i don't know
19:52:39 <Gonozal_VIII> tortoise merge doesn't like the v2 files
19:53:02 <Gonozal_VIII> yapp_r12052_svn.patch has lots of errors
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19:54:40 <michi_cc> I don't develop with Tortoise, so I can't really help you there. But v1 is known to fail with gcc (mingw)
19:55:29 <michi_cc> if you have a command line patch, you can apply the file from the first post with patch -p1 < yapp_r12052_v2.patch
19:58:16 <Gonozal_VIII> oh i guess i found the problem
19:58:25 <Gonozal_VIII> revert doesn't remove the pbs.cpp file
19:58:41 <Gonozal_VIII> then everything is doubled inside
20:00:37 <glx> of course it doesn't, and patch likes to readd new files at the end :)
20:01:23 <Gonozal_VIII> i had everything twice in that file...
20:01:58 <Gonozal_VIII> deleted the whole dir
20:03:06 <Gonozal_VIII> it really should revert new files too...
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20:03:23 <glx> no because they aren't in svn
20:03:33 <glx> so it doesn't know about them
20:03:52 <peter1138> tortoise could add them when it patches
20:04:05 <peter1138> but otherwise, indeed.
20:04:19 <glx> tortoise fails when -p is needed ;)
20:08:05 <Gonozal_VIII> had to do configure twice and make twice, first time always fails because of some endian stuff
20:08:29 <Gonozal_VIII> wow, pbs compiled
20:10:02 <Gonozal_VIII> yay compile ready :D
20:10:25 <Sacro> michi_cc: hellooooooo, pbs is looking good
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20:20:07 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm waiting depots don't work
20:21:13 <Sacro> Wolf01: what is "with" in italian? "prep"?
20:22:01 <Sacro> as in "i'd like $starter with $maincourse"
20:22:34 <Sacro> mm, that does sosund nice
20:23:52 <peter1138> as in chilli con carne
20:25:52 <Wolf01> is the same in italian
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20:36:19 <Wolf01> yes, but that is a name of a food
20:37:03 <Prof_Frink> What about sarah con nor?
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21:24:06 <Abio> hello all, ive a little problem with openttd: i want to play a lan-game with my brother, and all works fine except, i want to start the game at 2040 and let it run till 3500 or so, but if i start the game it resets every 1st january
21:25:07 <Abio> i allready opened the cfg file and tried to change the values there, when i start the game again i see the values are changed, but still it restart every 1st janary
21:25:46 <glx> what's the value for restart_game_year ?
21:25:49 <peter1138> Set restart_game_year to 0.
21:27:26 <Abio> i had the value at end_gameyear
21:28:55 <Gonozal_VIII> isn't it kind of boring to play from 2040 to 3500? no new vehicles ever
21:29:03 <Gonozal_VIII> or do you have grfs for that?
21:29:27 <Abio> my brother wants to play it this way :)
21:29:30 <DJ-Nekkid> is it currently possible to have new vehicles after 2044?
21:30:09 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know any grfs that have that but it should be possible
21:30:30 <DJ-Nekkid> Long format introduction date (2A)
21:30:30 <DJ-Nekkid> Set the vehicle introduction date, in days since the year 0. This takes account of leap years; dividable by 4, but not 100 unless 400. A start date of 1920-01-01 is obtained with a value of 701265 (51 B3 0A 00). This property must be set after property 00 to take effect. In TTDPatch, dates after 2044 will be limited to 2044.
21:30:59 <DJ-Nekkid> not sure if that also is the fact for open
21:31:06 <Gonozal_VIII> there's a long version o the date that goes from year 0 to i don't know
21:31:20 <DJ-Nekkid> that is the long version
21:31:43 <peter1138> If that applied for OpenTTD, then it wouldn't say "In TTDPatch" ...
21:32:19 <DJ-Nekkid> that is quote from the newgrf wiki
21:32:49 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess limit would be something like the year 11.7 million
21:33:57 <DJ-Nekkid> aprox year 11,7 mill, yea... heh
21:36:20 <Belugas> what?? only 11.7 million ??? That limit MUST be raised!
21:37:01 <DJ-Nekkid> year 11.767.033 to be exact :)
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21:39:57 <Tefad> DJ-Nekkid: you forgot 251 days.
21:40:53 <Gonozal_VIII> what if somebody wants to play until the sun burns out? :O
21:41:03 <Gonozal_VIII> he wouldn't have any new vehicles then!
21:41:53 <peter1138> This laptop screen is too high resolution :(
21:42:08 <Gonozal_VIII> too high resolution?
21:42:31 <Belugas> [16:41] <Gonozal_VIII> what if somebody wants to play until the sun burns out? :O <-- i'd kick him in the butt hard for its stupidity
21:42:58 <peter1138> That's all very well if you like blurry lines...
21:43:43 <orudge`> what is the screen size and resolution?
21:45:31 <Gonozal_VIII> they're still producing 3:4 screens for laptops?
21:46:51 <orudge`> well, my 13" screen is 1280x800, 1400x1050 doesn't seem so bad for 15"
21:47:06 <orudge`> although, my old 15" laptop (or was it 14.1") was 1024x768, I think
21:47:16 <orudge`> can't really remember
21:47:31 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, I don't know, this one is fairly old.
21:47:38 <Gonozal_VIII> my 17" is 1440*900
21:49:18 <Gonozal_VIII> i hope they don't introduce that 2,35:1 format as standard...
21:59:58 <orudge`> Gonozal_VIII: doubt it
22:00:28 <orudge`> 16:9, or 16:10 on computer TFTs, seems to be the standard these days
22:00:58 <Gonozal_VIII> 4:3 was standard...
22:01:08 <Gonozal_VIII> than they made movie format 16:9
22:01:22 <Gonozal_VIII> now 16:9 is standard... and movie format 2,35:!
22:01:38 <orudge`> movies have been 2.35:1 for a long time
22:01:57 <Gonozal_VIII> only some, it's spreading slowly
22:01:58 <orudge`> or at least, similar aspect ratios
22:02:09 <orudge`> most "cinematic" films have been 2.35:1 since the 70s at least
22:02:42 <orudge`> TV has only gone widescreen (16:9) over the past 10 years or so
22:05:55 <glx> and they still mostly broadcast in 4:3
22:06:59 <Gonozal_VIII> so i like 4:3 broadcastings
22:08:30 <orudge`> [19:05:55] <glx> and they still mostly broadcast in 4:3 <-- not over here
22:08:38 <orudge`> most programmes, except archived material obviously, are made in 16:9 now
22:09:05 <orudge`> (archived material is either broadcast in the original aspect ratio, or is cropped (boo hiss), or is pillarboxed (which is OK I guess)
22:10:02 <peter1138> michi_cc, trains reversing cause a few crashes :(
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22:10:47 <Gonozal_VIII> no signals after stations causes crashes too... don't do that^^
22:11:46 <Gonozal_VIII> and switches that can be entered from all sides need at least one line without a signal to prevent deadlocks
22:12:03 <Audigex> gonozal, could you explain that to me?
22:12:23 <Audigex> [22:11] <Gonozal_VIII> and switches that can be entered from all sides need at least one line without a signal to prevent deadlocks
22:12:39 <Gonozal_VIII> wow that question was fast then^^
22:12:51 <Audigex> lol yeah, happened to be watching
22:13:11 <Audigex> the "no signals after stations causes crashes" i got
22:14:11 <Audigex> okays, i just use the basic patch settings for the most part
22:16:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12060 /trunk/src/ (town_cmd.cpp town_map.h):
22:16:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: do not clear tiles when the town won't be able to build any buildings anyway
22:16:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: allow building 2x2 building on slopes if not explicitly forbidden
22:16:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: it was possible to build 2x1 and 1x2 buildings on slopes even if it was not allowed
22:17:47 <Audigex> surely on the top one, everything just stops?
22:18:00 <Audigex> i think i read about this
22:18:14 <Audigex> one way signals only affect trains facing that way? they dont stop those going the other way?
22:18:49 <Audigex> im great with openttd until i get into the really advanced signalling
22:19:02 <Audigex> at which point a build extra tracks and be damned with realisticness
22:19:06 <Gonozal_VIII> that system isn't yet in openttd
22:19:22 <Gonozal_VIII> it was but got removed again... that's a new patch
22:20:44 <Audigex> it makes sense to upgrade signals a lot
22:21:19 <Audigex> in openttd the only way i can make one way track is to only allow one train along it at a time
22:21:31 <Audigex> in real life two might go along close together, then some the other way
22:29:59 <Gonozal_VIII> btw, signal selection window should stay open until you close it or you close the railroad construction window... or/and it should keep the last selection
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22:40:14 <Gonozal_VIII> that system would have lots of possibilities that are not there now
22:44:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12061 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Cleanup: since r12060, DC_FORCETEST is not used anymore
22:47:41 <Gonozal_VIII> just saw a video on youtube with a german politician talking about mandatory canibalism
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23:04:10 <DJ-Nekkid> mind a newgrf-question again?
23:04:21 <DJ-Nekkid> if anyone is awake, that is
23:04:35 <Gonozal_VIII> never ask if you can ask a question :P
23:05:22 <DJ-Nekkid> im gonna try to make the first wagon (after engine) have 1 grapic, the middle ones have 1 grapic, and the last one (before other MU'head) have one
23:05:27 <DJ-Nekkid> -1 * 0 02 00 B3 81 40 00 FF 01 B1 00 01 01 B0 00
23:05:27 <DJ-Nekkid> -1 * 0 02 00 B4 81 40 00 BB 01 B3 00 01 01 B2 00
23:05:39 <DJ-Nekkid> i tried that, but something didnt work...
23:05:54 <DJ-Nekkid> B0 is the middle one, B1 is the first one, and B2 is the last one
23:06:51 <DJ-Nekkid> changeing b3 and b2 in the 2nd line dont help either
23:07:41 <DJ-Nekkid> but it perhaps should...
23:09:23 <DJ-Nekkid> when i do that does the last wagon get the proper grapic, but the first one also gets it
23:12:22 <DJ-Nekkid> it seemed to work when i changed the order
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23:12:28 <DJ-Nekkid> the 2nd line at the first line
23:12:38 <DJ-Nekkid> and changed the proper ID's as well
23:13:11 <DJ-Nekkid> 80+x feature-specific variable, see following feature-specific pages
23:13:25 <DJ-Nekkid> i dont know what it is, i just know it have something to do with what i want >(
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23:15:37 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't know what it does? then where did you get that from?
23:17:23 <DJ-Nekkid> some help from Zeyphrys and Dalestan :)
23:18:16 <Gonozal_VIII> For 81/82, the lowest byte of the value is accessed
23:18:17 <DJ-Nekkid> ment for something else, and i modded it to suit my needs
23:18:17 <DJ-Nekkid> and i tried to read the documentation, apparently it worked
23:18:28 <Gonozal_VIII> so you read the lowest byte of some general variable...
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23:19:41 <DJ-Nekkid> probably something like that
23:19:59 <DJ-Nekkid> as long as it works am i happy, and then i might actually understand it at one time :)
23:20:06 <Gonozal_VIII> Position in consist and length of consist
23:20:11 <Gonozal_VIII> and that's the var...
23:22:11 <Gonozal_VIII> 40 00 should be the engine then
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23:22:44 <Gonozal_VIII> no that's varadjust thingy
23:23:55 <DJ-Nekkid> it works if i have 5 wagons
23:23:55 <DJ-Nekkid> *bang head into something*
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23:23:55 <Gonozal_VIII> ff would be the var then i guess... so wagon number 255
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23:23:55 <DJ-Nekkid> FF is counted from the front
23:23:55 <DJ-Nekkid> and BB from the back
23:24:23 <DJ-Nekkid> so the first after (or before) the engine
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23:24:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12062 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp:
23:24:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: possible deadlock when there are no houses available to build at given tile
23:24:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: houses with zero probability could be built
23:24:58 <Gonozal_VIII> house deadlock O_o
23:25:15 <Sacro> that requires mutual exclusion
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23:25:43 <DJ-Nekkid> i thought i did that
23:25:54 <DJ-Nekkid> -1 * 0 02 00 B3 81 40 00 BB 01 B2 00 01 01 B0 00
23:25:54 <DJ-Nekkid> -1 * 0 02 00 B4 81 40 00 FF 01 B1 00 01 01 B3 00
23:26:47 <Gonozal_VIII> why are there no chains to action as?
23:27:36 <Gonozal_VIII> replace original graphics based on vars
23:28:10 <DJ-Nekkid> because that takes up an vehID ?
23:28:49 <Gonozal_VIII> 32 bit veh ids :-)
23:29:06 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII Sacro houses were randomly tested, but no test was done if any of these can be built... maybe deadlock is better known from threading stuff
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23:58:29 <michi_cc> And good night with that, I'm turnng in.
continue to next day ⏵
