IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-02-03
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00:25:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12045 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Feature-ette(newGRF): Add support for var 12, Variational Action 2
00:27:10 <Belugas> small feature, not really a big thing...
00:27:33 <Belugas> nothing to be claimed high and strong
00:28:02 <Gonozal_VIII> Game mode, 0 in title screen, 1 in game and 2 in editor <-- that?
00:29:07 * Belugas is impressed, a user who knows about the inner parts of grf...
00:29:48 <Gonozal_VIII> so one could disable industry placement rules in the editor with that if one wants to?
00:29:53 <glx> or a user who knows where to look in docs
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00:33:01 <Belugas> Gonozal_VIII, it's up to the writer to decide what to do with it, but indeed, it can be one of the possibilities
00:33:38 <Gonozal_VIII> of course i didn't know that without looking
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00:34:51 <Gonozal_VIII> does patch support that too?
00:48:04 <Gonozal_VIII> action 2s can choose between action as based on all kinds of stuff... is there a way to choose between action as the same way? not just the static way with 7 or 9?
00:48:35 <Gonozal_VIII> some randomified grass and such :-)
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01:33:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: richk * r12046 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: Helipad now in NewGRF airport files, rather than reference into openttdw.grf.
01:34:01 <Gonozal_VIII> wow, newgrf ports update
01:34:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: richk * r12047 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/ (seaplaneport.grf sprites/seaplaneport.pcx): [NewGRF_ports] -Change: new tarmac interior for seaplaneport depot. Graphic from skidd13.
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01:44:16 <Gonozal_VIII> Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.
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01:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> and what's the emacs command to that?
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03:37:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12048 /trunk/src/ (bridge.h tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Cleanup: Move some strings in the original bridge array, adjust documentation a bit.
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10:10:55 <redmonkey> my openttd 0.6.0-beta3 (linux-version) crashes every now and then, but not always at the same time and without doing anything.. very strange
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10:17:08 <redmonkey> Gekz: what debug level would you recommand?
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10:18:59 <Gekz> redmonkey: well, the highest
10:19:15 <Gekz> but that's personal preference
10:19:24 <Gekz> you know a crash is happening, so detail is dire
10:21:41 <LordAzamath> if is, I'd like to get some comments :D
10:25:26 <Rubidium> redmonkey: what about testing the yesterday's nightly and seeing whether it happens there too?
10:29:18 <redmonkey> Rubidium: i'd have to run it a few days.. it doesn't happy frequently.. and unfortunately i don't have the time for intensive testing
10:30:07 <Rubidium> do you play with AIs?
10:30:33 <Rubidium> then it is most likely a known (and fixed) bug
10:35:06 <LordAzamath> why are they.. in a pattern
10:35:17 <LordAzamath> I was just planting trees in tropic
10:35:39 <LordAzamath> funny thing is that trees shouldn't be on desert anyways..
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11:12:30 <Alberth> Zoeff: Did you file a bugreport about the lack of autorenew yesterday?
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11:46:25 <Amis> is there a reason why i cant press the Build at the Many random industries in the map editor? i could before
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11:48:51 <Amis> i can build the industries manually but i want a lot...
11:49:40 <SmatZ> Amis: works for me... select Many random industries, then press Build
11:49:56 <Amis> but the Build button is unavaliable
11:51:33 <Amis> uhh wait... something wrong with the screenshot
11:51:57 <SmatZ> Amis: it is unavailable only when you select Many arndom industries?
11:52:15 <SmatZ> I see the screenshot, not the photo :(
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11:53:47 <Amis> may i did something wrong in the patch configuration?
11:55:11 <Amis> i reopened but still nothing...
11:55:57 <SmatZ> mmm the code has one bug
11:55:57 <Amis> uhm... can it be a problem i have a town with 247.000?
11:56:08 <SmatZ> but it shouldn't cause this
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11:58:18 <Reven552> i have a question about the game
11:59:53 <Reven552> are you skilled at the game, i have a question?
12:00:09 <Amis> maybe i can answer but others are listening too :)
12:00:44 <Reven552> im bothered by the tall building small house ratio in the game...
12:01:15 <Reven552> ... i find it horribly unrealistiv that when a city grows a bit its almost soley tall buildings present...
12:01:30 <Reven552> ... and almost no housing...
12:01:41 <Reven552> ... like residential houses and such...
12:02:21 <Reven552> is there anyway to influence taht
12:02:38 <Amis> well i think only coding... what i cant do
12:03:01 <Amis> SmatZ: i deleted the town but it still do not work, i hate it...
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12:28:41 <Reven552> have a question again
12:29:08 <Reven552> how do you switch "ON" the newhouses switch?
12:29:25 <Reven552> i have the 0.6.0 beta v3
12:29:43 <Reven552> i want to get some new buildings in
12:29:43 <SmatZ> Reven552: download newhouses grfs, then activate it
12:30:16 <Reven552> you mean just add it as a grf in the grf menu?
12:30:44 <Reven552> do you know where i can download the newhouses.grf?
12:40:50 <Reven552> anyone know how to add buildings as supposed to replace them?
12:41:32 <Reven552> add more variation so to speak
12:43:05 <Alberth> write a new newhouses.grf file
12:45:02 <Alberth> in particular, what's the next step?
12:45:40 <Alberth> i briefly looked at the patch, and I am not quite sure its ok. It also doesn't merge with r12030 atm
12:45:45 <Reven552> what do you mean write a newhouses grf file?
12:46:26 <Alberth> the GRF file is designed to replace existing houses. If you don't want that, you have to write a new version of it
12:48:19 <Alberth> Sorry, issue is about auto-renew of trains (but it seems to extend to vehicles in general)
12:48:31 <Reven552> i just read on several sites taht a file like taht has already been made
12:49:06 <Reven552> called newhouses.grf and needs to be switched"ON"
12:49:24 <Reven552> might have misunderstood the whole thing
12:49:42 <SmatZ> Reven552: those sites were about TTDPatch
12:49:48 <Alberth> it's on isn't? the houses were replaced
12:51:19 <Alberth> In openTTD, it is usually enough to make the GRF file available
12:51:41 <Reven552> ill try that then, tx again
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12:54:06 <Amis> this 3x3 town growing can do any size lol...
12:56:02 <Amis> is there any record in town size?
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13:06:04 <DJGummikuh> hehe I like it how easy your source is compileable
13:06:11 <DJGummikuh> just started a r12049 dedicated ^^
13:06:31 <DJGummikuh> but I wanted to ask for the names the different landscapes have in the config file
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13:06:38 <DJGummikuh> right now it's set to desert but I would like to change that
13:06:52 <DJGummikuh> it's been ages since I last configured my other running server
13:09:18 <DJGummikuh> hmm you don't talk much I take :)
13:10:11 <SmatZ> DJGummikuh: valid values are temperate arctic tropic toyland
13:13:15 <DJGummikuh> because right now it runs as "desert" and gives me the desert theme
13:13:35 <DJGummikuh> ah ok they were renamed?
13:13:42 <SmatZ> it reads it and converts to new name
13:14:11 <SmatZ> old values: normal hilly desert candy
13:15:55 <yorick> I'm having a problem with the autopilot
13:16:11 <yorick> it says its connected to the IRC server, but I can't find it
13:16:22 <SmatZ> Brianetta is the author of autopilot (as far as I know)
13:16:47 <DorpsGek> yorick: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 0 hours, 22 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <Brianetta> Simply acknowledging your presence (:
13:17:12 <yorick> its just repeating "Connected to IRC Server"
13:17:24 <DorpsGek> hylje: I have not seen DorpsGek.
13:19:29 <SmatZ> maybe Ammlller would know... or other people from #openttdcoop
13:20:16 <yorick> I'm having some trouble with the autopilot
13:20:45 <yorick> it is repeating "Connected to IRC server"
13:20:59 <yorick> irc.oftc.net #autopilot
13:21:32 <Ammlller> well, that should work, some other servers aren't possible, like quakenet or euirc
13:21:43 <yorick> yes, but it doesn't work
13:22:01 <yorick> and is repeating the same thing
13:29:00 <Alberth> how do you load cargo into a ship from a canal?
13:30:42 <Alberth> never mind, i found it
13:31:05 <Alberth> yeh, but I didn't have a ramp next to the canal
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13:33:42 <Alberth> glx: can you give some info how to proceed with FS#1029? (lack of autorenew)
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13:40:52 <DJGummikuh> what exactly triggers the notification that a company is about to become bankrupt?
13:41:30 <DJGummikuh> I just got that message in the midst of june
13:41:48 <SmatZ> DJGummikuh: negative bank account
13:41:53 <DJGummikuh> for what period of time?
13:42:03 <DJGummikuh> because I'm negative all the time ^^
13:42:15 <Amis> i think its the amount of money you DONT have
13:42:39 <SmatZ> if you are in red for 2 quarters, you get the first warning
13:42:50 <SmatZ> after 4 quarters, you go bankrupt
13:43:02 <DJGummikuh> but if I get positive again, the counter will be reset right?
13:43:28 <DJGummikuh> I paid all my money for terraforming and installed one train that hauls coal
13:43:30 <SmatZ> you have to be in positive when the check is done
13:43:34 <DJGummikuh> but it takes about a year to travel ^^
13:43:41 <DJGummikuh> when is the check?
13:43:46 <Amis> tell me somebody... what the Other means in the finaces? and whats that money it take each month?
13:44:17 <DJGummikuh> the money you pay the bank to avoid paying money to the country
13:45:38 <Amis> i made a map what my PC cant handle :D
13:46:08 <Amis> it has 2x 600.000+ town with airports...
13:46:33 <Amis> the other town is 1100.000
13:46:57 <Amis> its as big as the capital city of hungary :D
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13:47:47 <Amis> i see the circles! i see the structure of a town
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13:49:09 <Amis> openttd taking 50% cpu xD from the 3800Mhz
13:50:22 <Amis> is there any 64bit OpenTTD? :)
13:50:53 <Prof_Frink> alan@frinkpad:~$ file `which openttd`
13:50:53 <Prof_Frink> /usr/games/openttd: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
13:51:44 <Amis> and all or aspecial one?
13:51:59 <Yorick> can I log the irc traffic recieved by the autopilot in some way?
13:52:42 <DJGummikuh> damn I have not enough money :(((
13:52:55 <DJGummikuh> I don't really get a good start off... my initial track was too expensive
13:54:30 <DJGummikuh> wtf are Transfer Credits?
13:55:58 <Alberth> credits you get when you 'transfer' rather than 'unload'
13:56:29 <Alberth> (to a station where another vehicle picks it up and transports it further)
13:56:49 <DJGummikuh> Am I getting this right that I now can drop coal at a station taht also transports coal and it doesn't mix up no longer?
13:57:11 <DJGummikuh> like it did before?
13:57:23 <Alberth> what do you mean 'mix up'?
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13:58:07 <Alberth> SmatZ: no pictures! :)
13:58:08 <DJGummikuh> well in older versions of openttd when you had stations A B C and A and B offered Coal and C was the plant, when you transfered coal from A to B for the second train to continue it to C along with the coal produced at B, it would mess up the calculation
13:59:04 <Alberth> although it is 'virtual' money, computed afterwards afaik
13:59:22 <DJGummikuh> well as long as it calcualtes correctly in the end it's fine for me :)
14:01:28 <DJGummikuh> hehe still no other r12049 server around ^^
14:01:29 <Nesta> Is the linux version to use as a server only?
14:01:38 <DJGummikuh> I'm running linux version right now
14:01:42 <Amis> i remember when i had a train bringing iron ore from far than it unloaded all at a station from where trucks brang it to the factory, i could not understand why one of the 40 trucks have -$140.00 income
14:01:57 <DJGummikuh> Amis: yes that was what I meant :)
14:02:32 <Nesta> Is it possible to set up OpenTTD for that purpose?
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14:02:55 <Nesta> Was going to load it on my web server to run all the time
14:03:02 <Rubidium> DJGummikuh: why isn't the linux version able to use as a server only?
14:03:05 <DJGummikuh> I'm doing that one as well :)
14:03:15 <DJGummikuh> Rubidium: hmm perhaps I missunderstood him
14:03:24 <DJGummikuh> I thought he asked if the linux version is limited to server use only
14:03:32 <DJGummikuh> so since I'm running it as both right now, I answered no :)
14:05:01 <Nesta> So, as per the FAQ, I just install OpenTDD on my web server, copy the required files... and I assume edit a file some where to set game name, etc... and run server?
14:05:04 <DJGummikuh> Nesta it's quite easy to set up a dedicated under linux... I'm running two in parallel right now.. one 0.5.3 and one r12049
14:05:10 <Yorick> is there any way to let the autopilot connect to quakenet?
14:05:16 <DJGummikuh> you need to edit the openttd.cfg
14:05:29 <DJGummikuh> then you're good to go by typing ./openttd -D in the directory where the executable lies
14:05:36 <Nesta> Thanks DJ, I will get to work on this right now
14:05:36 <DJGummikuh> assuming you have shell access by ssh or whatever
14:06:00 <Nesta> Oh yea I do.. run TeamSpeak through it =)
14:06:33 <DJGummikuh> btw someone didn't answer the question here for what I pay money to "Other" each month
14:06:54 <glx> loan interrest and other things
14:06:59 <Nesta> Well upload files, run install and TS through shell....
14:07:07 <DJGummikuh> er... there is a seperate line "Loan Interest" ?
14:07:41 <Amis> you pay 500-1000 (depending on inflation) a year
14:07:47 <Nesta> Pretty sure this would work the same way....
14:07:58 <DJGummikuh> Amis: yeah but for what.. currently I pay 624 per year
14:08:07 <Amis> thats what i want to know too
14:08:07 <DJGummikuh> damn and IM nearly bankrupt again >.<
14:08:23 <DJGummikuh> but at least I afforded a second train ^^
14:08:32 <Prof_Frink> DJGummikuh: No-one really knows.
14:08:33 <Alberth> Amis: nah, I have no inflation, and still pay 300/year
14:08:46 <Prof_Frink> It was there in TTO
14:08:50 <Alberth> it's rent for your HQ :)
14:09:01 <DJGummikuh> hmm I wonder why noone joins on my r12049 server
14:09:12 <Amis> well im thinking about.. you pay that cuz you have a bank account? :D
14:09:13 <Prof_Frink> LA actions also get listed there.
14:09:16 <DJGummikuh> I'll destryo it in an instance :)
14:10:11 <DJGummikuh> ah yeah... shiny statues :D
14:10:40 <DJGummikuh> hmm I love the new status information about how full a train ist
14:10:49 <Amis> what cause a town to shrink?
14:10:56 <DJGummikuh> not enough transport
14:11:07 <DJGummikuh> rats in the streets :)
14:11:31 <DJGummikuh> ah and yet another question
14:11:39 <Amis> but i changed nothing in the last 10 years
14:11:42 <DJGummikuh> when will the arbitrary limit of 8 companies be removed? :)
14:11:54 <DJGummikuh> or isn't it arbitrary
14:12:03 <Prof_Frink> DJGummikuh: "When it is."
14:12:33 <DJGummikuh> what is it in for anyways? is there any reason for it?
14:12:56 <Amis> noooo... my town will dieeee...
14:13:44 <Prof_Frink> DJGummikuh: Hysterical Raisins again
14:14:10 <DJGummikuh> something is not working right here
14:14:13 <DJGummikuh> I have two coal trains
14:14:20 <DJGummikuh> one has reached 100% and the other came to 13 or so
14:14:25 <DJGummikuh> but the 100% train wouldn't leave
14:14:45 <glx> theorically it should be possible to have 16 companies, but a lot of things have to be checked
14:15:10 <DJGummikuh> glx: hmm where does that limit come from then?
14:15:45 <glx> map array and other things
14:16:11 <DJGummikuh> Amis: which landscape you play?
14:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Amis> is there a reason why i cant press the Build at the Many random industries in the map editor? i could before <- maybe you set industries to none in the difficulty options?
14:19:51 <DJGummikuh> the fill counter is right behind the sign of the station >.<
14:21:38 <SmatZ> it seems to prefer NE and NW directions to grow
14:21:45 <DJGummikuh> whats that on the upper half of the map?
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14:29:30 <Nesta> DJGummikuh, Still around?
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14:35:59 <DJGummikuh> can't I replace vehicles no more?
14:36:06 <DJGummikuh> I want to renew the engines on my trains but I don't know how
14:36:12 <DJGummikuh> the interface changed
14:36:55 <Alberth> with the replace-vehicles GUI you mean?
14:37:40 <Alberth> if yes, it's at the bottom of the train overview window
14:39:02 <Alberth> I don't seem to get 'road vehicle out of date, needs replacement' messages
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14:39:36 <DJGummikuh> Alberth: I don't see it
14:39:41 <DJGummikuh> I have this grouping interface
14:39:55 <DJGummikuh> and then I have Available Trains | Manage list | and this arrow down and a red an da green flag
14:40:03 <DJGummikuh> I want to replace my old vehicles :(
14:40:13 <DJGummikuh> I didn't see that one
14:42:37 <Yorick> I'm trying to use the base costs mod, but whatever parameters I fill in, it doesn't do anything :(
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14:48:11 <Yorick> hmm...the autopilot is still not working
14:48:32 <Yorick> the normal part of it works, but it says it's connected to IRC and I can't find it
14:53:12 <UnderBuilder> one question... what grfs of the opengfx proyect work in 0.5.3?
14:57:01 <Yorick> there seems to be a problem with the $::irc join command
14:58:15 <glx> UnderBuilder: they should all work (most of them are just action A grfs)
14:58:28 <UnderBuilder> even the industries replacements?
14:58:53 <glx> if they are just graphics change yes
14:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> newindustries is about industry behaviour, industry look could be changed long ago
14:59:22 <glx> if they are newindustries they won't work
14:59:35 <glx> the best way is to try it yourself ;)
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15:27:48 <Amis> cant you send me the map?
15:28:24 <hylje> certainly a map to build a mass transit system in a huge city would be intriguing
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15:32:31 <Nesta> So, I installed the linuz server, got it working, but I dont see where to configure the name, etc....
15:33:16 <Nesta> I dont see it in the directory I created
15:33:58 <Amis> smartz, with what version you saved the game? cuz i cant open :P
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15:36:01 <Rubidium> Amis: I guess something recent like r12049
15:37:07 <Amis> small medium large, city is the largest or its between large and medium?
15:40:42 <SmatZ> Amis: savegame version last changed in r12042
15:41:24 <SmatZ> Amis: probably the largest, and it has probably set the 'city' flag, so it grows faster (just guesses)
15:41:56 <Amis> and one more: how much time you clicked the expand? :D
15:42:35 <SmatZ> edited source to repeat the operation 100000 times ;-)
15:43:07 <SmatZ> it took roughly one hour
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15:47:06 <Amis> phej... that was close...
15:47:18 <Amis> i started a mouse clicker
15:47:39 <Amis> it clicked 4600 times on the many random towns and i couldnt stop it
15:49:22 <Hendikins> (I just looked at the screenshot)
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15:55:30 <Zoeff> How does one remove only one part of a station?
15:55:55 <SmatZ> Zoeff: click on Remove button
15:57:21 <Zoeff> doesnt work on airports that are connected to a train station though. :'(
15:57:53 <SmatZ> you can remove the airport by dynamite
15:58:05 <Zoeff> yes but wont it remove the things connected to it as well?
16:07:18 <redmonkey> hehe, nice idea Amis :)
16:07:31 <Amis> what "better roads" means at towns?
16:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> it means it cleans up road bits that can not be connected anywhere (dead end)
16:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm not sure what else has changed
16:11:28 <Amis> i wonder why the no more roads option is not allowed... not coded in map editor or removed for some reason?
16:11:35 <Amis> with it we could build nice maps
16:13:12 <Mark> the editor wont make towns if "no roads" is on
16:13:29 <Ammler> does cities grow in scenario editor?
16:13:54 <Amis> to expand towns to follow the roads i do
16:14:23 <Mark> doesnt it just say "no roads not recommended" or so?
16:18:20 <yoe_> anyone else having problems compiling with --enable-debug=3 --enable-desync-debug=2? in core/random_func.cpp
16:21:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12050 /trunk/src/core/random_func.cpp: -Fix: random_func broke for desync debug.
16:21:52 <Rubidium> though I'm wondering why you want to use desync debug
16:22:06 <Rubidium> and especially that level of desync debug
16:23:12 <yoe_> just playing around... i'm not very familiar with C but i'd like to see how everything works with vehicles leaving/entering stations, what funcs that are called etc. and instead of bothering you guys i thought i'd investigate it myself =)
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16:26:04 <Nesta> Ok, so everytime I edit and save my openttd.cfg and upload it to the server (linux) and start ./openttd , it just loads the default values
16:26:24 <yoe_> Rubidium, what should i use to get the "normal" debug output to STDOUT? --enable-debug=<int> didn't do anything here..
16:27:15 <Rubidium> the --enable-debug just adds debugging symbols and other useful stuff when trying to debug stuff in the debugger
16:27:49 <Rubidium> anyhow, the binary you are running will be dead slow
16:28:22 <yoe_> i did a new configure without desync
16:29:23 <Rubidium> debug 2 disables most optimizations and 3 even disables any inlining of code (so lots of overhead due to function calls)
16:29:45 <Nesta> Should the openttd.cfg have this in it connect_to_ip = EYEYEYEYEY ?
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16:30:25 <Rubidium> does you server have more than 8 network interfaces (physical and virtual)?
16:31:12 <Rubidium> then you need a very recent nightly
16:31:32 <Rubidium> betas (or stables) will not work correctly
16:33:13 <Amis> to have nightly, the only thing i have to do is to dowload the latest nighly and copy it onto openttd?
16:34:01 <Amis> or what do i have to do?
16:34:37 <Nesta> Its asking for a password....
16:35:50 <Rubidium> well you shouldn't try to commit I guess
16:36:06 <Rubidium> checkouts and updates do not require passwords
16:36:10 <Amis> somebody? nightly? thats the way to do?
16:36:30 <Rubidium> Amis: probably, but I never actually installed a nightly
16:37:07 <Amis> and yes it works... and yes i can open SmatZ map :D
16:38:28 <Nesta> I dont know why it was asking for a password.. maybe the wrong address or something.. but I downloaded the latest nightly they have from the website.. uploading it now
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16:45:27 <yoe_> hm, wouldn't a "ETA" be kinda useful in the status window of vehicles (e.g. "Heading for Station B, ETA 00:01:29")?
16:51:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd not say impossible, but complicated
16:51:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> you could have YAPF return the length of the path it chose
16:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> and mangle that with some kind of average speed
16:51:49 <SmatZ> but the problem is how to determine your average speed on that way
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16:52:08 <yoe_> yeah, it'll be pretty complicated.. but what about a simple one? for, lets say "without anything in my way, i'll be there XX:XX:XX or something
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16:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> the main use of that should be estimating a timetable (instead of filling out one run)
16:53:34 <yoe_> or maybe base it on data.. average time per delivery
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16:55:42 <ln-> oh, denmark has two internets.
16:56:19 <SpComb> how many internets does finland have?
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16:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have teh jiggainternets!
16:57:23 <SpComb> hah, so finland is at least half a millions better than denmark
16:57:47 <SpComb> (except that my internet traffic to europe is moslty routed via denmark)
16:57:54 <yoe_> what dev tool would you suggest under linux?
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17:05:57 <Amis> somebody should make a new, improved city growing algorithm :)
17:06:26 <Rubidium> and that somebody is .... Amis. Congratulations with the task!
17:06:30 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: thats a sweet-ass comic
17:07:21 <Amis> and yes! i killed 2,724,586 people with one click :D
17:07:50 <Yorick> TLC Error: char map unbalanced <-- is that normal when starting the autopilot with 0.6.0-beta3?
17:08:45 <Amis> question: why the tree planting is limited?
17:08:53 <Rubidium> Yorick: you better ask the author of autopilot about it
17:09:03 <DorpsGek> Yorick: Brianetta was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 4 hours, 14 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <Brianetta> Simply acknowledging your presence (:
17:10:05 <Yorick> I would love to do that
17:10:24 <Nesta> My linuxI'll use the console command to change the server_ip and saveconfig then download the config and it is changed... but when I restart the server it resets everything
17:11:27 *** LordAzamath is now known as LordAzamath[baltica]
17:12:34 <Nesta> it was set to false... set it to true... still doign the same thing
17:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> Nesta: the game overwrites the .cfg file on exit
17:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> exit the game first
17:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> then edit the config
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17:14:54 <Nesta> 'server_ip' changed to: 0.0.0.0
17:15:07 <Nesta> 'server_name' changed to: My example dedicated gameserver
17:19:06 <Amis> man... Trigger Happy TV is amazing :D
17:19:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> are you sure you changed the right config file?
17:19:59 *** divoafx has joined #openttd
17:20:23 <Nesta> openttd/bin/openttd.cfg
17:23:18 <Yorick> I would really like to get the autopilot to work today :(
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17:35:19 <Yorick> I'm trying your autopilot, but there is one problem with it, as soon as I try to join my server, error: char map unbalanced appears
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17:43:13 <Yorick> Brianetta , please, help!
17:44:47 * Yorick slaps Brianetta's bottom and grins cheekily
17:45:08 <Sacro> Yorick: he isn't single :p
17:45:51 <Yorick> the hydrairc slap command author had soo many inspiration
17:47:31 <peol> could someone point me in the right direction? how would one make a station to trigger on vehicle leaving/entering (e.g. run a count function that tracks vehicles to get throughput per month)
17:47:57 <Yorick> ask belugas to implement that grf feature :-)
17:48:35 <Gonozal_VIII> there's a patch on flyspray for waypoint stats
17:48:56 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm even station stats i think
17:49:10 <Gonozal_VIII> just woke up, not too good at thinking atm^^
17:49:23 <Brianetta> I'm trying to clean the sofa fabric
17:49:47 <peol> hm, i never found any working ones (the waypoint stats i found was for r4XXX)
17:50:54 <peol> hehe, sure, because i'm a god in C-programming ;)
17:52:58 <Yorick> Brianetta, please help *begs*
17:55:29 <Yorick> the autopilot doesn't let me join
17:56:14 <Yorick> but then gives an error
17:56:32 <Brianetta> You need to volunteer a great deal more information
17:56:41 <Yorick> [18:35] <Yorick> I'm trying your autopilot, but there is one problem with it, as soon as I try to join my server, error: char map unbalanced appears
17:57:06 <Brianetta> Never seen that error before. haven't heard of it. Is this at the server, or in your game?
17:57:31 <Brianetta> Try using a less weird name
17:57:38 <Yorick> Error sourcing /Documents and Settings/Eigenaar/Mijn documenten/downloads/OpenTT
17:57:38 <Yorick> D/FreeWrap/autopilot.tcl: char map list unbalanced
17:57:47 <Brianetta> Try using a less weird name
17:58:01 <Brianetta> What's your player name?
17:58:11 <Brianetta> OK, so the next thing to look at is your config file
17:58:26 <Brianetta> The only thing left is that you've changed the responses
17:59:13 <Yorick> only thing I've changed is the irc part, but even if I disable it
17:59:32 <Brianetta> Even if it's disabled, the IRC settings must remain valid
17:59:44 <Brianetta> otherwise the file doesn't parse properly
17:59:59 <Brianetta> What are your responses?
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18:01:38 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe get rid of that _ in the nick and server name?
18:01:59 <Brianetta> GoneWacko: Doesn't matter
18:02:18 <Brianetta> Yorick: Are you using the latest version of autopilot?
18:02:20 <GoneWacko> Learn to tab complete you!
18:02:21 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe poor gonewacko, always gets highlighted because of me
18:02:34 <Brianetta> Gonozal_VIII: I did tab-complete :-p
18:02:54 <Gonozal_VIII> but gontab isn't enough
18:02:56 <Brianetta> Yorick: Try the latest SVN release
18:03:11 <GoneWacko> You'd be thoroughly retarded if you actually wrote my nickname entirely by hand
18:03:19 <Brianetta> Gon*: Work out between you which of you is responsible for this sorry state of affairs.
18:03:30 <Yorick> Brianetta, I'll try, but I'm going to eat something first
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18:04:01 <Gonozal_VIII> since when does one have to leave irc for food?
18:04:48 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
18:05:40 <Gonozal_VIII> fish = Today's fish is Trout a la crme. Enjoy your meal. <-- that setting seems to be very important
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18:12:23 <Sacro> i'm sure _42_ used to respond
18:16:47 <Ammler> Sacro: nope, it doesn't
18:17:01 <Ammler> just tested at #openttdcoop
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18:31:28 <Yorick> well brianetta, how do I check out the svn?
18:32:53 <Yorick> peol, I know about that =D
18:33:05 <Yorick> Access to the SVN server on ppcis.org is only available through ssh.
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18:33:24 <peol> svn checkout <url> <local dir>
18:34:07 <Yorick> but that is not very nice fr a windows system
18:34:45 <Gonozal_VIII> tortoise svn :-)
18:35:12 <Yorick> without having to install more junk, please
18:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> <peol> could someone point me in the right direction? how would one make a station to trigger on vehicle leaving/entering (e.g. run a count function that tracks vehicles to get throughput per month) <- there might be a function "VehicleLoadUnload" or something that will trigger on arrival of a train on a station, and will also send it going again, you could hook up the counting there
18:35:26 <Rubidium> what scm works nice on windows?
18:35:43 <Gonozal_VIII> you also need tortoise merge for applying and creating patches
18:36:10 <Rubidium> nah... applying patches on windows systems is much better done in Microsoft Word
18:36:13 <peol> Eddi|zuHause3, aye. i found EnterStation/LeaveStation in train_cmd.cpp
18:36:27 <Gonozal_VIII> microsoft word wtf?
18:37:02 <Rubidium> well... notepad sucks even more
18:37:23 <Rubidium> and with MS Word you can (manually) do highlighting
18:37:29 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't need a texteditor for applying patches..
18:37:51 <Rubidium> you do not want to know how many people apply patches that way ;)
18:38:21 <Rubidium> as a matter of fact I even did it
18:38:22 <Gonozal_VIII> well i did that too with too many conflicts to solve in tortoise merge...
18:38:45 <Gonozal_VIII> but not on a regular basis
18:39:11 * Rubidium wonders whether backporting is 'on a regular basis'
18:42:03 <Yorick> yes, but now tell me how to get the svn using the windows svn
18:42:24 <Rubidium> a) there is no "windows svn"
18:42:42 <Gonozal_VIII> right click on a folder and svn checkout
18:42:49 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: that is not svn for windows
18:43:06 <Gonozal_VIII> it works fine in windows
18:43:08 <Rubidium> svn for windows is the command line svn client from svn built to run on windows
18:43:22 <Rubidium> so it should be done as peol said
18:43:52 <Yorick> Access to the SVN server on ppcis.org is only available through ssh.
18:44:12 <Rubidium> tried svn+ssh://ppcis.org/<whatever> ?
18:46:11 <saati> in 0.6-beta3 mail/goods tram dissapear (i cant buy new ones) sometime near 1997, is this a bug or by design?
18:47:03 <Sacro> MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russians visiting a health resort received a rude shock when a nurse used hydrogen peroxide instead of water to give them enemas.
18:47:49 <Rubidium> saati: probably by design (no new trams after somewhere in the 1950s/1960s I guess)
18:48:26 <Gonozal_VIII> you can turn on the patch option "vehicles never expire"
18:49:16 <Yorick> svn: Can't create tunnel: Can't find file.
18:50:21 <Gonozal_VIII> tunnels have to be placed slope :-)
18:51:00 <Gonozal_VIII> make sure your internet is sloped
18:51:37 <Yorick> [19:51] Yorick is connected via SSL (secure link)
18:51:57 <Yorick> I think my internet is sloped enough
18:52:21 <Gonozal_VIII> huh, where did the words go in the first line
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18:52:53 <Gonozal_VIII> [19:50:21] Guest232: tunnels have to be placed slope :-)
18:53:11 <Yorick> [19:50] <Gonozal_VIII> tunnels have to be placed slope :-)
18:54:18 * Yorick gives Brianetta a clout round the head with a fresh copy of HydraIRC
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18:59:00 <LordAzamath[baltica]> with what?
18:59:09 *** LordAzamath[baltica] is now known as LA
18:59:17 <Yorick> trying to checkout from a ssh+svn server
18:59:44 <Brianetta> Are you using the private key?
18:59:47 <Gonozal_VIII> just use tortoise :P
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19:00:01 <Brianetta> There's no such thing as anonymous ssh
19:00:52 <Brianetta> Which ssh client are you using?
19:00:57 <Brianetta> and which SVN client?
19:01:00 <Yorick> Anonymous SVN access for autopilot seems to be the title of your post
19:01:11 <Yorick> there comes the problem
19:01:18 <Brianetta> Anonuymous SVN, yes, but not anonymous ssh
19:01:19 <Yorick> putty with Subversion standard client
19:02:03 <Brianetta> When you say standard client, do you mean the Unix one, or Tortoise?
19:02:11 <Yorick> Unix one, running on windows
19:02:42 <Brianetta> What did you do with the secret key?
19:02:45 <Yorick> yes, but I dont know how to set up and you do
19:02:48 <glx> but you need a public key :)
19:02:58 <Brianetta> glx: You need a secret one, ironically
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19:03:11 <Yorick> I put the secret key in the putty folder
19:03:31 <Gonozal_VIII> you need to upload your private key to a website
19:03:47 <Brianetta> Gonozal_VIII: You're misunderstanding this.
19:03:53 <Ammler> www.openttdcoop.org/autopilot-svn-42.tar.bz2
19:04:40 <Yorick> Ammler: don't make it that easy
19:04:52 <Yorick> you spoiled all the puttistic fun
19:04:57 <Ammler> I wasn't able to checkout it either
19:05:36 <Ammler> Brianetta: is 42 last revision?
19:05:56 <Gonozal_VIII> putting the private key in some dir for a program to read isn't exactly the best for security
19:06:27 <Brianetta> Gonozal_VIII: There's no other way to do it
19:06:47 <Brianetta> Since that private key is available to download, it's hardly an issue
19:07:54 <Ammler> Brianetta: how to checkout it with linux?
19:08:17 <Ammler> should be easy, I assume :)
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19:09:23 <Ammler> hmm can you be more specific?
19:09:43 <Yorick> svn co svn+ssh://svn@ppcis.org/autopilot
19:12:01 <Yorick> how should I know that?
19:13:44 <Yorick> hmm...I like that winmerge-thingy :)
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19:18:35 <Yorick> Brianetta: the same problem again!
19:18:53 <DirtYiCE> any NoAI people here?
19:19:02 <Rubidium> Yorick: you should get the SSL key needed for the ssh connection
19:19:09 <Rubidium> and you can find that on the forum
19:19:35 <Gonozal_VIII> most people here are not ais
19:19:40 <Yorick> Rubidium: ammler gave me the source
19:19:46 <Gonozal_VIII> or any kind of i
19:20:32 <Yorick> but I think you should ask Rubidium, he's the main dev
19:20:41 <DirtYiCE> i just started to (or try) make an ai
19:21:31 * Rubidium has very very little AI knowledge
19:22:16 <DirtYiCE> why can't I change colors?
19:22:30 <DirtYiCE> but it's not the most important thing..
19:22:51 <DirtYiCE> only a nice to have thing :)
19:22:59 <Gonozal_VIII> ai doesn't care about colours ;-)
19:23:26 <Rubidium> DirtYiCE: because the API is far from finished and colours are very low on the todo list
19:23:46 <DirtYiCE> where is the todo list?
19:23:52 <Rubidium> and the API isn't going far lately due to serious time constraints
19:24:02 <Yorick> somewhere inside Rubidiums head
19:24:04 <Rubidium> actually there isn't one
19:25:00 <DirtYiCE> anyway, what do you reccomend to start with? road transport or air transport?
19:25:17 <Rubidium> air is quick money, road transport is more challenging
19:25:54 <DirtYiCE> so then i should make somethong working with air, tnen after challenge with road :)
19:26:24 <Gonozal_VIII> a good train ai would be nice
19:27:44 <DirtYiCE> and what's with the LowerRaise patch? did it get into trunk?
19:29:47 <Rubidium> I have no idea what patch you're talking about
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19:32:29 <DirtYiCE> hmm.. how can i get a list of available cargos?
19:32:41 <DirtYiCE> i see no AICargoList
19:33:45 <Rubidium> then you have to iterate them manually I guess
19:34:00 <Yorick> Brianetta: email needs to be filled in
19:34:43 <DirtYiCE> Rubidium: hmm.. but where can i get cargo_ids?
19:35:22 <DirtYiCE> ( sorry if i ask stupid questions )
19:35:44 <Rubidium> nowhere, just that it is 0..31
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19:36:50 <DirtYiCE> or maybe get it from vechiles? because i shouldn't care with cargos that i can't transport..
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19:53:17 <Yorick> the autopilot is just not coming up with unpausing the game when going from 0 to 1 client
19:53:29 <Yorick> but when I go from 1 to 2, it unpauses
19:53:42 <Yorick> and when I go back to 1, it unpauses again :(
19:53:58 <Yorick> going from 1 to 0 pauses the game, as it should
19:55:06 <valhallasw> then fix your config file?
19:55:17 <Yorick> its at pause_level = 0
19:55:43 <Nesta> What should this variable be set to? "lan_internet"
19:55:58 <valhallasw> sounds like a variable that's hardcoded in one location and variable in the other
19:56:37 <Yorick> maybe the coop guys have changed the thing
19:57:33 <Yorick> ah, I can see $::players > $::pause_level && $::pause_level >= 0
19:59:42 <Yorick> it's a variable on both
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20:05:41 <Nesta> Any one know why I would be having a problem with the config file resetting everytime I start the linux server?
20:06:17 <Gonozal_VIII> not beginning with a newline? :-)
20:06:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> EWrongWindow detected
20:07:42 <Yorick> hmm...it seems to miss the clientcount
20:08:03 <Nesta> Should I be using the -D command?
20:09:35 *** Yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
20:09:55 <Nesta> Gonozal_VIII - Didn't help
20:11:42 <Ammler> Yorick|AFK: older ottds hadn't the pauselevel
20:11:54 <Ammler> thats why Brian made that in autopilot
20:12:23 <Ammler> if you like to switch off, pauselevel, set it to -1
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20:12:41 <Ammler> in other hand you can switch off min_players with 0
20:13:55 <Ammler> pause_level = min_players - 1
20:14:46 <planetmaker> any of the devs here? In nightly 12025 on my mac the currency symbol for euro doesn't work. I got a question mark there...
20:16:21 <Rubidium> planetmaker: and in 12050?
20:16:42 <Rubidium> because I'm not fancying fixing already fixed bugs
20:16:47 <Rubidium> furthermore did you compile yourself?
20:17:31 <Nesta> Rubidium - Know why my openttd.cfg would be resetting everytime I start the linux server?
20:18:07 <Rubidium> I got absolutely no idea
20:18:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12051 /branches/noai/ (345 files in 26 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk (r11795:12050).
20:18:47 <peol> Nesta, write protect it ;-)
20:19:17 <Rubidium> but it is most likely because you have invalid settings in there
20:20:00 <Nesta> I was thinking that LoL
20:20:08 <planetmaker> rubidium: I didn't compile myself. Just from the archive. Haven't tested, but will test with xxx50.
20:23:52 <Nesta> peol - No dice, still loads up in the default, just doesn't change file now
20:24:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r12052 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#1737] (r11494): The cargo translation table was loaded at the right time, but all the other global variables were now loaded too early. ;)
20:24:18 <peol> probably some invalid settings as Rubidium noted
20:24:51 <Nesta> The damn thing is so crunched together I cant make head or tails of most of it anyway LoL
20:26:04 <Nesta> Any one have a working config file, I could nab to work off of?
20:26:48 <planetmaker> rubidium: I got a ? on the latest nightly, too.
20:27:02 <planetmaker> for the currency symbol instead of euro that is
20:27:06 <Rubidium> just a black one or a red one?
20:27:19 <Rubidium> and are you using any newgrfs?
20:28:18 <planetmaker> The right colour. In all places, like status bar, money chart...
20:28:34 <Maedhros> actually, i'm not getting any symbol at all where the euro symbol should be in options menu dropdown
20:28:37 <planetmaker> I've the openttdcoop grf package...
20:28:52 <planetmaker> and was playing on their server...
20:29:21 <Rubidium> the euro character works for me
20:29:29 <Maedhros> i can just about see it on the in-game status bar, but it seems to be the same colour as the status bar, so all i see is the shadow
20:29:29 <Ammler> openttdcoop currency is pounds :P
20:31:32 <planetmaker> ammler: yes? Hmm... I always thought currency was a local issue...
20:32:10 <planetmaker> it is. the other currency symbols work.
20:32:35 <Maedhros> (this is with no newgrfs at all, on r12052)
20:34:04 <planetmaker> I get the same w/o any newgrf
20:34:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12053 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (177 files in 14 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r11949:12050.
20:34:52 *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
20:34:55 <Ammler> planetmaker: didn't you see the smily?
20:35:25 <planetmaker> sry. missed it :)
20:38:23 <planetmaker> anyplace to paste screenshot (sniplets)?
20:38:51 <Maedhros> hmm. £ and ¥ still work, so it can't be just due to multi-byte problems
20:39:26 <Maedhros> that's only a single-byte in utf-8 ;)
20:39:42 <planetmaker> But unlike your scree shot, in the currency selection I still have currency (EUR) available.
20:40:00 <planetmaker> but ingame it screws.
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20:58:41 <Nesta> screenshot_format = savegame_format =
20:58:59 <Nesta> is that line supposed to look like that?
21:00:26 <Nesta> Is there a page some where that explains how this should look....
21:02:21 <Nesta> screenshot_format = savegame_format
21:02:30 <Gonozal_VIII> savegame format is png :-)
21:02:31 <Nesta> and rightclick_emulate = false
21:03:03 <glx> rightclick_emulate = false
21:04:18 <Prof_Frink> Do what Gonozal_VIII said.
21:04:23 <Nesta> There is no value... thats the problem
21:04:37 <glx> that's the default value :)
21:04:43 <Nesta> there are a few that have no value
21:04:50 <glx> the game will do the right thing
21:28:15 <Nesta> I was redoing the config file and I just reran it and got this error up exit...
21:28:26 <Nesta> ini: invalid value 'HOW_TOWN_NAMES|SHOW_STATION_NAMES|SHOW_SIGNS|FULL_ANIMATION|FULL_DETAIL|WAYPOINTS' for 'display_opt'
21:29:01 <Rubidium> Nesta: looks like you're missing a S
21:29:15 <sHELL> ._. kinda wondering, any way to add some more industry to OpenTTD?
21:29:37 <sHELL> and not replacing the orginal ones :/
21:29:40 <Chrill> There's the NewIndustries, but I am not sure if they work in OpenTTD..
21:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> newindustries works in 0.6 but not in 0.5
21:31:36 <sHELL> new industrie as in adding more of the same? (thats most of the hits I get in google)
21:33:22 <sHELL> more talking about, a new industry like having an extra suply chain... example, uranium mine >>> uranium enrichment >>> nuclear plant :P
21:34:03 <Gonozal_VIII> with lots of protestors and a train maximum speed of 5 km/h?
21:34:58 <hylje> newind allows for more complex stuff than that
21:37:35 <sHELL> can I get a url to that... google keeps pushing me back to the "buy new industry" stuff :/
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22:12:49 <Noldo> I didn't know there was such a recent rerelease
22:13:06 *** MDGrein has joined #openttd
22:15:21 <Noldo> so this is the latest release
22:15:23 <Gonozal_VIII> Minimum Age: 3 O_o
22:15:40 <Gonozal_VIII> Fun Toyland world <-- hehehehe
22:16:35 <Gonozal_VIII> can't see a 3 year old playing ttd...
22:16:55 * SmatZ cannot order from Amazon
22:16:59 <Gonozal_VIII> in the "fun toyland world"
22:17:11 <Gonozal_VIII> cannot order from amazon? why?
22:18:15 <SmatZ> maybe I misundestand what it means
22:18:39 <Gonozal_VIII> amazon works fine here
22:18:49 <SmatZ> hmm so it should work here too :)
22:19:33 <Gonozal_VIII> well... there's amazon.at but no amazon.cz
22:20:03 <SmatZ> "Marketplace" is probably that 'second-hand' store from Amazon
22:20:42 <Noldo> Gonozal_VIII: well, there is nothing in the content that would make it not suitable for a 3 year old
22:21:26 <Gonozal_VIII> it's not about the content... chess content is suitable for children too
22:21:28 <Noldo> though I remember my 7 year old sister-in-law playing and she was mostly just blowing up stuff
22:26:07 * SmatZ wonders why he gets "svn: No such revision 11934" when he tries to "svn up" in ttdpatch svn directory...
22:26:14 <Noldo> eventually I had to ask here how to cheat for more money and people were giving me the "don't you wanna play fair" lecture :)
22:26:41 <Gonozal_VIII> wait a few decades^^
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22:43:36 <Gonozal_VIII> every odd number is prime
22:43:43 <Gonozal_VIII> 1, 3, 5, 7.... see?
22:44:43 <Gonozal_VIII> well... it can be divided by 1 (and) itself...
22:45:26 <Rubidium> it isn't a prime number by definition
22:45:29 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII has less than nine fingers.
22:45:47 <Gonozal_VIII> some exceptions are to be expected
22:46:06 <Gonozal_VIII> but 11 and 13 works again, so 9 is no problem
22:49:47 <Gonozal_VIII> i can read thoughts over irc...
22:50:03 <Gonozal_VIII> think of any even prime number and i'll guess which one it is
22:50:39 <Rubidium> using Gonozal_VIII's principles a Fibonacci sequence exists of only primes too
22:51:49 <Gonozal_VIII> nobody cares about stupid 8
22:55:05 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
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22:57:03 <Gonozal_VIII> that's where i got it from^^
22:57:46 <Rubidium> from chanserv ofcourse
23:00:05 <fjb> That reminds me about a very religios guy. I asked him out of curiousity why he belives in god. He explained that all science is a lie, so only religion is true.
23:01:51 <fjb> He claimed that teaching science is bad, because science has proofs. But you can trust in no proof, so that is bad. Religion has no proofs because you just have to belive, that is a good thing.
23:02:19 <Gonozal_VIII> makes a whole lot of sense^^
23:03:00 <Rubidium> but then he proved his point, which makes it untrustworthy, i.e. bad
23:03:03 <peter1138> the days when he frequented his on fan group...
23:04:18 <fjb> Yeah. We discussed a bit about that and the principles of proofs. But he claimed that all asumptions on which proofs are based are plain wrong. I saw no sense in further dicussing that and he didn't understand why. At least I think my questions was answered.
23:05:19 <fjb> Don't discuss with religious people about religion. :-)
23:05:50 <fjb> And don't ask them simple questions.
23:07:14 <Gonozal_VIII> the less they know, the more they believe
23:07:41 <SmatZ> the more they believe, the less they know
23:07:48 <SmatZ> the other way around....
23:07:49 <fjb> Yes, the is a principle of many religions, sadly.
23:08:24 <Gonozal_VIII> like those idiots teaching creationism in schools
23:08:38 <fjb> I didn't want to question his religion.
23:09:18 * Rubidium ponders whether there are actually people that believe nothing
23:09:24 <fjb> Yeah, he voted for creationism as an alternate view of the world.
23:10:18 <fjb> I knew somebody who belived almost nothing. At least nothing that somebody (even close friends) told him. :-)
23:10:24 <Gonozal_VIII> well... all unproven theories in science are believes too
23:10:39 <Rubidium> fjb: but then he believed in that
23:10:52 <SmatZ> but there are many indicies they are true
23:11:07 <fjb> Rubidium: Yes, he believed in something. Almost nothing, but really not nothing.
23:11:39 <SmatZ> like - well, somebody could say there are many indicies a God exists...
23:11:47 <Gonozal_VIII> yeah... wouldn't believe stuff without any kind of indication that it could be that way...
23:13:35 <fjb> SmatZ: Most people belive that because they were told when they were little kids. God may exist, but the chances are low.
23:13:44 <Gonozal_VIII> there are things where science just doesn't work... like the question what was before the big bang or what's beyond the event horizon of a black hole...
23:15:05 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: yes, that's also what I don't understand - why is there anything instead of nothing? wouldn't it be simpler if there never was anything? no people, no Earth, no Sun, no Space at all
23:16:15 <SmatZ> why is our space energetically cheaper than 'nothing' -
23:16:50 <Gonozal_VIII> simpler and a lot more plausible... probability of an universe like ours where we can exist are low... but if it was otherwise, we couldn't think about why it is like it is^^
23:16:54 <fjb> That would be simpler, not OpenTTD hacking, no discussions like this. But is that an indication of god? Maybe. Or is it just we not understanding it yet? Both is possible.
23:16:56 <SmatZ> I think one day scientists will understand that - and I hope I will be alive that day :)
23:17:27 <SmatZ> fjb: the other question, what was before the God? :-)
23:17:35 * fjb thinks SmatZ is a Timelord.
23:17:53 <fjb> SmatZ: I also had that tought.. Who made god?
23:19:20 * SmatZ is afraid of possible Stack Overflow
23:19:34 <Gonozal_VIII> my believe in that part would be that there were a lot of universes before ours started and there will be a lot more after that, almost all of them not suitable for life but we wouldn't have evolved in one of those
23:19:38 <fjb> Rubidium: How big is the god stack?
23:19:39 <Chrill> Patchman made love to orudge`, thus creating God
23:20:30 <Chrill> Anyone here who can download two songs for me? I sort of can't find em thru the hub I have access to
23:20:52 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: maybe there were +inf universes before us with intelligent life, and there will be +inf after us
23:20:54 <Gonozal_VIII> that's illegal chrill ;-)
23:21:07 <Gonozal_VIII> yes that too smatz
23:21:08 <Chrill> but that's not for free
23:21:21 <Chrill> my computer can't handle it :(
23:21:30 <Gonozal_VIII> and i'm sure there's other intelligent life in ours too
23:21:46 <SmatZ> downloading is legal here...
23:21:57 <SmatZ> but I couldn't send it to you, because it is illegal
23:22:05 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: If it is really intelligent we will never get to know about it.
23:22:07 <Chrill> why's everyone proper like orudge here? :(
23:22:39 <SmatZ> make mrproper doesn't work in OTTD Makefile
23:22:45 <Rubidium> primarily because the CIA is watching and relaying info to the RIAA?
23:22:48 <Gonozal_VIII> distances are too big to ever meet others anyways
23:22:59 * Chrill slaps CIA upside down with a forktruck
23:22:59 <UnderBuilder> one question... is legal changing the firefox icon by the internet explorer one?
23:23:04 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: better for them.
23:23:06 <Rubidium> SmatZ: make mrproper does work!
23:23:15 <UnderBuilder> not creating one, selecting it from the icon list
23:23:50 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yeah, sorry - make realclean doesn't work
23:24:29 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: maybe... maybe there will be a way to do shortcuts in space - and maybe there are other civilisations watching us already
23:24:35 <fjb> UnderBuilder: That depends on where you are living. Better ask a local lawyer.
23:24:40 <UnderBuilder> I want to camuflate my firefox as IE
23:25:25 <UnderBuilder> here suitments by piracy are strange thing (Argentina)
23:25:58 <UnderBuilder> (i'm talking about the Chrill thing)
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23:30:05 <Chrill> UnderBuilder, it's legal to DL but not to share, I think, here
23:30:32 <fjb> Chrill: Where are you living?
23:31:41 <fjb> SWE? That is no ISO country code.
23:34:26 <fjb> That is part of the EU. I would not asume that sharing copyrighted thinks is allowed there. I may be wrong, but better ask a lawyer first.
23:34:42 <Chrill> why's everyone so boringly legal
23:35:31 <fjb> Chrill: We don't care if the police takes your computer away. But we care if they take ours.
23:35:46 <Chrill> And they monitor OFTC to take someone sending a single song, oh yes
23:35:53 <Chrill> nobody's ever busted for file sharing damnit
23:36:23 <fjb> Not busted, but you can easily lose your computer equipment that way.
23:36:26 <Chrill> oh noes, CIA's gunna eat me up
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23:36:32 <ln-> 01:21 < Chrill> but that's not for free <-- why would you need to get your songs free?
23:36:47 <fjb> Chrill: Why don't you do illegal things by yourself?
23:36:50 <ln-> Chrill: would you like to work for free, too?
23:37:03 <Chrill> Soz guys, gotta go to the station, i got arrested
23:37:22 <SmatZ> ln-: because you pay fees for recording companies by every empty CD, HDD, DVD,... you buy in a shop?
23:37:59 <Gonozal_VIII> most of the money for cds never reaches the artists
23:38:02 <SmatZ> I have the right to download music/movies, because I pay much more in these fees than the music/movies I download is worth
23:38:05 <ln-> SmatZ: i don't pay, i doubt he pays either.
23:38:15 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: nor the price you pay in shop
23:38:18 <fjb> If they would never get him for doing illegal things, they get him because he is asking in open chanels...
23:38:28 <glx> SmatZ: but you can't upload :)
23:38:31 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: s/most/none/;s/never /
23:38:35 <Gonozal_VIII> that's what i was talking about smatz
23:39:02 <SmatZ> but somebody has to, so I can download
23:40:25 <fjb> Asking people "Can you do illegal things for me for free?" is still stupid.
continue to next day ⏵
