IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-02-02
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00:04:35 <ln-> there must be asciified characters in this, right?
00:04:36 <ln-> "Nous avons le plaisir de vous informer que nous avons expedie votre
00:04:37 <ln-> procede aujourd'hui a l'expedition de vos
00:04:38 <ln-> articles, ce qui complete le traitement de votre commande. "
00:05:16 <Gonozal_VIII> that's just random letters
00:06:06 <ln-> "Salutations de la part d'Amazon.ca !"
00:06:32 <ln-> flappy heads, beady eyes, i know
00:07:15 <glx> anyway the message seems incomplete
00:07:57 <ln-> well that wasn't the whole thing, and the salutations was actually in the begin.
00:08:11 <ln-> begin of the french part anyway.
00:09:21 <glx> IIRC the law force them to use english and french in there messages
00:09:42 <ln-> is french french without accents?
00:10:06 <glx> it's understandable if you know french, but it's not french
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00:10:46 <glx> Belugas often skip accents (he doesn't have them on the keyboard)
00:11:43 <glx> but amazon should do it better (they have enough money for that ;) )
00:12:06 <glx> and I guess it's an autogenerated message
00:12:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> just for the records, where should the accents belong?
00:12:54 <ln-> hmm, now that i looked at an old confirmation email from amazon.de, they also seem to be writing german without .
00:13:21 <Gonozal_VIII> french has an accent on every letter
00:13:27 <Gonozal_VIII> and like 20 different ones
00:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: i do know enough french to understand roughly the sense of that sentence ;)
00:13:43 <glx> "Nous avons le plaisir de vous informer que nous avons expedié votre
00:13:44 <glx> procède aujourd'hui a l'expédition de vos
00:13:44 <glx> articles, ce qui complète le traitement de votre commande. "
00:14:12 <ln-> i wonder if they write japanese and chinese in pure ASCII?
00:14:36 <Gonozal_VIII> every sign 5 lines high in ascii art^^
00:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have not used amazon... but i'm quite sure i'd have noticed them lacking äöü
00:15:36 <Gonozal_VIII> i have some amazon newsletters in my inbox...
00:15:45 <ln-> Sie koennen bei uns gekaufte Artikel innerhalb von 30 Tagen zurueckgeben.
00:15:45 <ln-> Ausgenommen sind lediglich Artikel aus unserem Elektronik-und-Foto-Shop,
00:15:45 <ln-> elektrische Kuechen-, Haushalts- und Gartengeraete, elektrisches Werkzeug
00:15:45 <ln-> sowie Games-Hardware aus dem Bereich PC- und Videospiele, fuer die eine
00:15:45 <ln-> 14-taegige Rueckgabefrist ab Erhalt der Ware gilt.
00:16:07 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: the emails, not the website.
00:16:18 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: there's only 4 accents in french, and only 4 letters can have accent
00:16:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> ah, i don't think i've got amazon emails...
00:16:34 <Gonozal_VIII> Klicken Sie hier, um zuknftig keine Nachrichten dieser Art mehr von uns zu erhalten.
00:16:54 <Gonozal_VIII> all over the place
00:18:02 <Gonozal_VIII> can't read any of that
00:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: but using ae oe, and ue instead of ä, ö and ü is allowed in contexts, where äöü is not available (expecially in computing)
00:19:01 <Gonozal_VIII> even in crosswords where you could easily write the umlauts
00:19:02 <glx> sz can replace all squares?
00:19:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> it might be bad style, but it's not technically wrong
00:19:11 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: yes, but but... a modern-day email shouldn't be a context where are not available.
00:19:20 <Gonozal_VIII> yep, but only black squares
00:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: they might do this for international recipients to avoid encoding issues or something...
00:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> or the writer had the wrong keyboard
00:21:31 <glx> it's better to remove accents than typing 'e or e'
00:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> you should probably ask them ;)
00:21:47 <Gonozal_VIII> some just write uoa instead... that sucks
00:22:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, using u instead of ü often changes meaning
00:22:20 <Gonozal_VIII> like that "uber" stuff
00:23:15 <glx> luckily accents don't change meaning in french (just pronouciation and some grammar things)
00:23:54 <Gonozal_VIII> they're not just accents in german, they're completely different letters
00:24:03 <ln-> 68.5% of letters in french don't have a meaning
00:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is indeed true ;)
00:24:17 <glx> <Eddi|zuHause3> "ou" and "où"? <-- usually the context helps to understand
00:24:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i guess... you'd have to decide in spoken words also...
00:25:02 <Gonozal_VIII> why bother using them then?^^
00:25:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> as well as "s" and "t" ;)
00:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> "août" is the worst word i know ;)
00:26:04 <glx> and nobody pronounce it the same way
00:26:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> the french are the only ones that can reduce "august" to one spoken vowel ;)
00:26:57 <ln-> and that vowel must be // :)
00:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> ^ usually means that language-historically an "s" disappeared after the letter
00:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: i learned /u/
00:27:40 <glx> yes like "forêt" comes from "forest"
00:27:41 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: m'kay, i didn't get as far as month names with my french studies
00:28:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> it also explains the relation between french "fête" and german "fest"
00:28:53 <ln-> l'Hospital is the way it is written in Finland, or at least in our university.
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00:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: the candidate gets 100 points ;)
00:29:23 <glx> I can't read what Gonozal_VIII writes
00:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> i learned "l'Hôpital" (if you mean the mathmatician)
00:29:44 <Gonozal_VIII> i can't read what you write either :-)
00:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> but i have seen l'Hospital very often
00:30:02 <ln-> yeah i do mean, and especially the rule named after mathemagician
00:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's very interesting that both spellings seem to be around
00:30:58 <glx> anyway french is not very hard if you know latin or anciant greek
00:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> you don't have that very often
00:31:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> like you never see anyone write "Göthe", it's always "Goethe"
00:31:22 <Gonozal_VIII> latin and ancient greek are both dead...
00:31:31 <Gonozal_VIII> so french will be next :-)
00:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> glx: i mean for the person (or rule) name
00:32:08 <ln-> some sources claim "l'Hospital" would have written his name like that, while others claim the french spelling was already "l'Hpital" at the time he lived
00:32:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> i guess we'll never find out for sure ;)
00:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> and history has proven often enough, if two standards are well established, the "big" standard will say "both ways are allowed"
00:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> for example "der Virus" vs. "das Virus"
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00:35:21 <glx> we have words with different gender for plural and singular
00:35:40 <ln-> but our words don't have genders at all!
00:36:02 <glx> "un orgue" "des grandes orgues"
00:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> i recently had a discussion with my mom (french/spanish teacher), about how it should be language-historically explained that while latin has neutral gender, all romanic languages have lost it
00:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: what is the plural of "butter"?
00:38:37 <Gonozal_VIII> there is no singular of butter
00:38:41 <glx> it may have one but it's never used
00:38:47 <Gonozal_VIII> like sheep of fish :-)
00:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> i would disagree
00:39:24 <Gonozal_VIII> then what? butters? southpark...
00:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can find out if it's singular or plural by forming the 3rd case
00:41:20 <Gonozal_VIII> well... that's die butter could be singular or plural
00:41:40 <glx> du beurre c'est du beurre, et c'est tout
00:41:50 <Gonozal_VIII> oh^^ mixed up 3. and 4. again
00:41:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> 3rd case female is "der", 3rd case plural is "den"
00:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> and you say "mit der butter", not "mit den butter[n?]"
00:42:53 <Gonozal_VIII> then there is singular but no plural...
00:43:12 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't matter, same thing^^
00:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> this no singular thing is an english weirdness... i can't think of an example in german
00:44:01 <Gonozal_VIII> or a lot of stuff that can't be counted
00:44:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> all uncountable things are singular
00:44:25 <glx> they can't count aircraft in english ;)
00:44:45 <Gonozal_VIII> but they can count planes and helicopters ;-)
00:45:11 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe it's about abstract classes :-)
00:45:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> they apparently can't count sheep either ;)
00:45:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> they probably never have single ones anywhere ;)
00:46:04 * glx remembers the mister been episode when he count sheeps
00:46:49 <Gonozal_VIII> count the legs and divide by the statistically known average leg count :-)
00:48:18 <Gonozal_VIII> my guess would be somewhere around 3.9something :-)
00:48:19 <glx> no it's a picture with sheep on it, he starts counting them one by one (but fails), finally he count rows and colums, use a calculator to multiply them, and fall asleep
00:48:38 <Gonozal_VIII> ah i remember that episode
00:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> i thought i've seen them all
00:49:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's longer ago than the blode ;)
00:50:43 <fjb> I don't want to interrupt your interesting talk, but how does the game determine how tall the bounding box of a building has to be?
00:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> "In Bayern kennen wir Brot, Butter, Milch und Käse (nur im Singular). Im Plural heißt das dann z.B. zwei Laib Brot, drei Stück Butter, vier Glas Milch. Alles andere ist Käse."
00:51:13 <glx> fjb: it usually uses the sprite size
00:51:43 <glx> unless bounding box is specified by the grf
00:51:53 <fjb> glx: Thank you. And how tall is the maximum for a building?
00:52:33 <fjb> Hm, which action sets the bounding box? maybe the limit is documented there.
00:52:56 <ln-> hmm, interesting to watch a movie that is shot in this town, in locations i regularly walk by.
00:52:58 <Digitalfox> Well i'm using Pikka industries and i just think i found a limitation, but i don't know if is from the grf or from open... I'm trying to build a Quarry, and i can build from West and South, but not from North or East.. Open or grf limitadion?
00:54:11 <Gonozal_VIII> action 2 for sprite layout
00:54:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: i've had this happen, too
00:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> occasionally "tatort" episodes are shot here
00:54:58 <Gonozal_VIII> feature 2 houses :-)
00:55:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> and when they shoot car chasings, they constantly switch places, you know all the roads, but you know that you could never use them in that order ;)
00:55:27 <glx> Digitalfox: probably grf prevents it
00:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> also, i've seen a movie that constantly jumped between cities
00:55:50 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: but interestingly they suddenly teleport to places that i suspect are not here at all. :)
00:57:23 <glx> they shot an episode of a new serie near my street
00:57:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> and one movie that played in the other city, and one of the viewers said afterwards: "it's funny how they always came to that bridge from the wrong side" :)
00:58:14 <_Ben_> Does anybody know if there is a correct term or name for the doorways that are at the end of carriages on a train? (Not specifically the doorway, but the connecting part in general)
00:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> like they went from locations that you could clearly identify as A and B, but when they went over the bridge, they went in the direction B->A
00:59:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> _Ben_: i'm afraid you should ask a native speaker
00:59:49 <_Ben_> any name that will return google image results is fine by me
01:02:08 * fjb has been in three movies so far.
01:03:22 <Gonozal_VIII> wagenverbindung gives some results
01:03:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> i can't find anything useful
01:03:54 <fjb> The grf specs say the hight of a building is a Byte value. So 255 should be the maximum.
01:04:12 <Gonozal_VIII> what do you want with buildings higher than 255 anyways?
01:04:49 <fjb> I don't really want buildings that high. :-)
01:04:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> i said that like 3 hours ago
01:05:10 <_Ben_> thanks for looking. Sacro, would you care to share the answer then, or dont' you know it?
01:05:18 <Gonozal_VIII> tile height are 8 pixels, that represents 50m, 255 pixel would be 1593,75m :-)
01:05:26 <Sacro> _Ben_: just asking people :
01:05:27 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause3: You said that you thought it might be 255.
01:05:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: that scale is not applicable
01:05:58 <Gonozal_VIII> i know that eddi ;-)
01:06:03 <Gonozal_VIII> but 255 pixel is huge
01:06:18 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: That means most buildings are 2 pixels tall.
01:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> fjb: you won't ever find anything more specific than that from me ;)
01:06:49 * fjb will take Eddi|zuHause3 for reference from now on.
01:08:02 <fjb> glx: I want at least some kind of scale for the buildings I'm drawing now. So one scale in the resulting grf (if it ever reaches that state).
01:08:09 <Sacro> _Ben_: can't actually find anythin
01:08:47 <glx> fjb: the right "scale" is when it doesn't look ugly in game
01:09:54 <_Ben_> Sacro: ok, don't worry, thanks for looking. I have been searching through some train spotter site for a while, but there seems to be 1 default shooting angle wich is infront looking diagonal back at the train. They never seem to take photos of much else
01:10:00 <fjb> glx: I know, but two buildings with too different scales next to each other don't look good.
01:10:07 <_Ben_> won't somebody think of the modeellers?!
01:10:13 <fjb> _Ben_: How about passage?
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01:11:05 <Gonozal_VIII> ben i already told you that "wagenverbindung" is good for some pictures :P
01:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> these look russian
01:11:28 <_Ben_> Gonozai_VIII: yeah I did listen, I checked but I didn't find anything like that
01:11:52 <fjb> Übergang is the german word for passage. Maybe that helps.
01:12:30 <ln-> our university in the movie \o/
01:12:42 <fjb> _Ben_: You could also look at the websites of model railway manufactures.
01:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: i don't see anything useful there
01:13:05 <Gonozal_VIII> you get different results?
01:13:22 <_Ben_> Hmm, that image I linked to isn't an english train, but it is suitable as a reference for the general idea of how they look. (I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to such things), so I'll use that
01:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: you get a shot of the back of a standard wagon?
01:14:10 <fjb> _Ben_: The look depends on when the carriage was build.
01:14:28 <Gonozal_VIII> lots of those yellow ones...
01:14:37 <_Ben_> yeah, I heard that old carraiages lacked the rubbe corralated bit?
01:14:57 <fjb> But maybe the differences are not that great at TTD scale...
01:15:21 <_Ben_> they shouldn't be noticeable. That image will do, I just needed an idea of the general composition
01:15:22 <fjb> The rubber thing had different shapes in the past,.
01:15:51 <_Ben_> ah, but it was still there?, ideally sprites should be suitable for as wider time scale as possible
01:17:18 <fjb> No, in the beginning of the railway it was not there.
01:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> wagons with "platform" connection
01:17:28 <fjb> Don't know when it was invented.
01:18:18 <_Ben_> hmm interesting, they look pretty nice, although I don't think there is room for extras like a platform
01:18:22 <fjb> There were carriages with paltforms at the end and without. Later they invented that rubber thing.
01:18:42 <_Ben_> ah, cool. "Bild 4" is handy
01:19:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, those are typical pre-war connections for long distance carriages
01:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> platforms are for short distance carriages
01:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> the early DBSet wagons try to show that
01:21:01 <_Ben_> the hornby website has been really good for some trains I have noticed, although only from a side on perspecitve.
01:21:03 <ln-> hmm, a very familiar lecture hall in the movie \o/
01:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> fjb: these don't have a connection at all
01:21:34 * Sacro has just found the THX logo on his desktop
01:22:02 <Gonozal_VIII> now i read "hmm, a very familliar don't have a connection at all" and wondered wtf that was supposed to mean
01:22:24 <Gonozal_VIII> line changed while i was reading^^
01:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> that probably won't help much ;)
01:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: btw. "Bild 3" is a "Donnerbüchse"
01:23:59 <Gonozal_VIII> what bild 3 where?^^
01:24:09 <fjb> Hm, the rubber things were already invented in 1920.
01:24:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> from the pictures you posted
01:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> the one that says "Bild 3"
01:24:20 <Gonozal_VIII> they had rubber in 1920?
01:24:56 <fjb> Maybe it wasn't made from rubber yet. But it was already black. :-)
01:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: sure, one of the main achievements pre-war was the production of synthetical rubber
01:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> they built a facility called "Buna" for that purpose
01:26:05 <Gonozal_VIII> they use leather in some modern trams
01:26:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's practically around the corner from here ;)
01:27:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> not much detail there ;)
01:28:59 <Gonozal_VIII> leather with metal protection over the edges
01:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> lots of sections ;)
01:29:30 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, they have 4 lont and 3 short sections if i remember right
01:31:42 <Gonozal_VIII> no... 2 short, 3 long and 2 middle long at the front and end :-)
01:32:49 <Gonozal_VIII> the one on the last picture is one of those i go to university with
01:33:35 <Gonozal_VIII> i think that even is the university station
01:35:17 <Gonozal_VIII> something like 150 people fit in there
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01:36:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> you don't know your stations?
01:36:50 <Gonozal_VIII> there's not much to see on that picture
01:36:56 <fjb> The first four axle carriages with some kind of rubber thing (not yet made of rubber) were build in 1891.
01:37:20 <fjb> In germany. Maybe earlier in another country.
01:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> afaik the connection-wagons were developed in germany, and then that design spread through europe
01:38:42 <_Ben_> I think it isn't at all clear at the zoom level that the tunnel section is surrounded by rubber, therefore in an age when it would be unrealistic to have rubber it won't look that out of place as it will just look like an interconnecting box of some sort
01:38:53 <Gonozal_VIII> but did you notice, that they put commercial stickers all over our trams?
01:38:55 <fjb> First were bought by the Prussian railway in 1891.
01:38:57 <Gonozal_VIII> even over the windows...
01:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> we have that occasionally
01:39:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> some trams are "fully custom coloured"
01:39:55 <Gonozal_VIII> all of them are here
01:40:09 <fjb> _Ben_: Yes, it was some kind of fabric back then. But that is of no importance at TTD scale.
01:40:19 <_Ben_> Is England rather getting behind? I've never seen any of these new trams and bus's that your linking to.
01:40:50 <_Ben_> fjb: I'm actually refering to the fullzoom scale (+2 (geektoo build) but it's still to minor of a detail, so the point stands still
01:40:57 <Gonozal_VIII> the stickers on the winows have lots of little holes in it, so you can still look through..
01:41:14 <fjb> England is getting behind in many aspects of railway. They were using steam engines much longer than germany did.
01:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> they were also using electrics muuuuch later than germany did
01:41:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> germany introduced electrics in 1912
01:41:56 <Gonozal_VIII> and they're still using diesels
01:42:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> look when the first electrics appear in TTD
01:42:20 <_Ben_> do other devolped countries not use deisels?
01:42:36 <Gonozal_VIII> we only have some for shunting and maintenance
01:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> lot's of minor lines use diesel railcars
01:43:13 <ln-> Bjarni: are you still breathing? you've been silent suspiciously long.
01:43:48 <_Ben_> strange. I havn't really visited many european countries, but it always appears like england has a greater contrast than most countries, in the sence that it has some advnace thigns and modern stuff, but at the same time some things are almost 3rd word, espeially when it comes to public services and conveniences
01:43:57 <glx> diesel is still used on unelectrified tracks here
01:44:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> most main lines use electric
01:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> but some are not electrified yet
01:44:35 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know of any unelectrified tracks here
01:44:40 <_Ben_> fjb: ah, good. It shouldn't look to inapropriate then
01:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> the most prominent one beeing the Dresden-Nürnberg line between Reichenbach and Hof
01:45:22 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe some private lines
01:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> they developed the ICE TD for that line
01:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it was a major failure
01:45:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> now they decided to electrify it
01:45:45 <glx> some regional lines use modern DMUs
01:46:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> minor lines are rarely electrified here
01:46:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> and it wouldn't be economically feasible to electrify them either
01:47:06 <Gonozal_VIII> i'm on a minor line here and it's been electrified longer than i'm alive
01:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> but you don't have lines that got electrified 3 times ;)
01:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> first electrification 1911-1914
01:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> second electrification in the 1920's
01:48:18 <Gonozal_VIII> why didn't they keep it? :S
01:48:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> third electrification in the 1970's
01:48:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> 1914: copper was used for war efforts
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01:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> 1947: soviet military administration decided to burn down all electrification
01:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> and take the wires as reparation
01:49:26 <Gonozal_VIII> not very efficient to burn it...
01:52:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually that makes you wonder, when they decided to remove all railway catenary, why did they not remove the tram catenary?
01:52:08 <Gonozal_VIII> i tried to find a picture of the old ones... some of them are still in use here
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01:54:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> trams around here used to be separate wagons until 1990
01:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> these "articulated" trams were bought completely new afterwards
01:55:30 <_Ben_> Right, I'm off, cheers for the help guys. Night
01:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> in between we got cheap used western trams while our own rolling stock was "in upgrading"
01:56:50 <Gonozal_VIII> what exactly does in upgrading mean?
01:57:11 <Gonozal_VIII> from one day to another they stopped using the old ones but new ones came in slowly
01:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> meaning they took the czech "Tatra" models and completely renewed them, new colour, new interior, new electric modules
02:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> less often in double traction without undriven trailer
02:04:51 <Gonozal_VIII> besen makes more sense
02:05:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: richk * r12039 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/ (airport_gui.cpp newgrf_fsmports.cpp newgrf_fsmports.h):
02:05:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: Corrected GUI to revised format.
02:05:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Added enums for widgets.
02:05:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Now use ShowDropDownList and corrected BuildFSMportsClassDropdown to return a DropDownList rather than String*.
02:05:38 <Gonozal_VIII> the trams i know here can't be attached to others or seperated...
02:05:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> (that's one of the longest tram lines in the world)
02:07:04 <Gonozal_VIII> quite simmilar to our old ones
02:07:41 <Gonozal_VIII> is that a trailer?
02:08:07 <Gonozal_VIII> never seen anything like that before
02:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> busses here used trailers until the '70s
02:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> they could be disconnected for hilly routes
02:09:08 <ln-> i think over here transporting people in any kind of trailer is forbidden.
02:09:15 <Gonozal_VIII> i know some trailers for ski stuff... but only one axle and smaller and no passengers
02:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> but for city routes, they usually used "articulated" busses instead
02:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> we have a restored bus from that time around, but i can't find pictures
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02:11:14 <Gonozal_VIII> ok 2 axle... but stuff like that is quite common here
02:11:32 <Gonozal_VIII> but i've never seen a passenger trailer
02:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Historischer Omnibus IFA H6B/L mit Anhänger W 701, beide Baujahr 1956, (HAVAG Halle)"
02:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have seen them using it on several publicity actions of the tram company now
02:13:56 <Gonozal_VIII> they're testing that
02:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> like they opened a new line connecting two turning points, and 125 years tram
02:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the remodeled Franckeplatz
02:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the remodeled Riebeckplatz (near Main Station)
02:14:59 <ln-> they're doing it wrong. tramlines are supposed to be replaced by buses after decades of popularity.
02:15:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the new connection between both places
02:15:25 <Gonozal_VIII> tramlines replaced by busses? why would you do that?
02:15:30 <Gonozal_VIII> trams are way better
02:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> they replaced several bus lines with a tram line here
02:16:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> the busses always took every possible corner in the roads
02:16:14 <ln-> i'm just a bit annoyed that all tram traffic ended in 1972 in Turku.
02:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> the trams just go straight ahead
02:16:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, they did not make that mistake in the eastern block ;)
02:16:46 <Gonozal_VIII> oh... it always sucks when they close down lines
02:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> they often expanded tram networks, when western countries made a full bet on busses
02:17:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> and then got hit by the fully blown oil crisis
02:17:45 <Gonozal_VIII> should be strictly forbidden to close down any rail/tram lines ever
02:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't remember them shutting down a line here in the past 20 years
02:17:58 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: the trams and lines in Turku were demolished only a few years before the oil crisis
02:18:02 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: not even for upgrades?
02:18:27 <ln-> the oil crisis a few years earlier could have had significant impact
02:18:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: usally not completely
02:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: yes, it's the same story in lots of western cities
02:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> like west berlin for example
02:19:19 <ln-> three finnish towns used to have trams, now only one.
02:19:22 <Gonozal_VIII> i like trams very much
02:19:44 <Gonozal_VIII> subways are even better but trams rock too
02:19:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> trams are great... i was in luxemburg last year, there they only use busses... it's a huge mess
02:20:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> a tram can replace like 3 busses
02:20:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> and does not get stuck in traffic
02:20:28 <Gonozal_VIII> and it doesn't get stuck in traffic
02:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it's difficult to reroute in case of accidents and stuff
02:21:46 <Gonozal_VIII> but there are not many accidents
02:22:05 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: but it doesn't have to be a tram accident.
02:22:21 <Gonozal_VIII> they have mostly seperate tracks here
02:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> most accidents are car-vs-tram at a road crossing
02:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> usually it's tram: 1 - car: 0 ;)
02:24:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> but the line is blocked for a while
02:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> it happens much less since they remodeled the Riebeckplatz
02:24:58 <ln-> we used to have a crossing of tramline and regular railway.
02:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> they put the tram one level lower than the roads there
02:26:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can't think of one around here, but there are closed rail lines through the city, they might have crossed there in the past
02:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> oh, and there are leftover tram tracks from lines that closed like in the 50s
02:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is no tram ;)
02:32:52 <Gonozal_VIII> train stops to let bus through?
02:33:33 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: no, but you can see the tram tracks
02:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> trains must stop when the crossing is unsecured
02:34:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> besides, it might be a shunting run
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02:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: the tram has no catenary?
02:37:06 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: i've been wondering the same, but it's probably that the line is already shut down, and replaced by the bus in the photo.
02:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: well, even then, the previously put up catenary would have blocked the crossing bars
02:39:10 <ln-> dunno how they solved that one, but certainly the trams operated on electricity.
02:39:55 <Gonozal_VIII> there's been some talk about trams powered by a heavy spinning wheel inside that gets accelerated again at stations
02:40:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> they used battery driven trams here for a while, because the physics institute wouldn't allow putting up catenary near them
02:41:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> because "it would disturb their fine measuring instruments"
02:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but battery driven vehicles are expensive to operate
02:43:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> and it took them 10 years to even allow this
02:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> they had to operate horse tram for these 10 years
02:45:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> i said, they were celebrating 125 years of tram here
02:45:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12040 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Change IsOrderListShared from a simple function to a class member(MagicBuzz).
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03:23:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12041 /trunk/src/ (industry.h newgrf.cpp table/build_industry.h):
03:23:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Add the loader and the property for action 00 industries, prop 24, nearby station name.
03:23:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: No assignation yet, no real work either.
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08:35:42 <LordAzamath> hmm.. it seems I've got a problem..
08:35:49 <LordAzamath> I've got a broken grf.
08:36:01 <LordAzamath> and I gotta fix it
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08:38:10 * LordAzamath wonders why do all Finns think they can speak Estonian... :P
08:38:40 <hylje> the languages are like next to each other
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08:39:55 <LordAzamath> and your sentence was grammatically correct, but nobody speaks that way :P
08:40:51 <LordAzamath> 'tere tulemast' is like '*welcome* to my realm' or something... not hello.. hello is 'tere' alone :P
08:41:25 <peter1138> Maybe that's what hylje meant :D
08:41:26 <Rubidium> hmm, hylje owns oftc?
08:46:07 <LordAzamath> hmm.. Today in 1920 Tartu Treaty was formed between Estonia and Soviet Union..
08:46:51 <LordAzamath> So our independence war ended that day..
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09:29:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12042 /trunk/ (12 files in 2 dirs):
09:29:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1676]: Reimplement how rivers and canals are stored in the map, allowing the sea/river/canal status to also be
09:29:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: stored for buoys, docks, locks and depots. All these are now allowed on rivers and removal of them will revert to the
09:29:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: original water type.
09:35:39 <LordAzamath> anyone wants to test a grf?
09:36:01 <LordAzamath> I just got all (hopefully) big aches from code removed
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09:36:12 <LordAzamath> but I'm not sure I corrected everything
09:36:30 <LordAzamath> I had some major flaws in there previously..
09:36:51 <LordAzamath> ahh.. nvm.. I'll just post it into the forums :)
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10:37:39 <Gekz> И ам претендинг то кнов хов то спеак руссиан, бут алл и ам доинг ис транслитератинг енглиш инто цыриллицс! И ам со фуцкинг л33т.
10:38:08 <Alberth> can somebody translate that, so we also understand it?
10:38:27 <Gekz> it's just english transliterated into cyrillics
10:39:49 <Gekz> that makes less sense than what I said in less words.
10:40:25 <Alberth> I said "not(lol) imho"
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10:47:52 <Amis> hmm do somebody know program with what you can send the application windows to try instead of minimazed
10:48:30 <Gekz> Amis: there was on on portablefreeware.com
10:49:41 <Amis> hehh alltray is linux only :D
10:51:27 <Gekz> thats why I said search portable freeware
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10:53:19 <Amis> okkey TrayIt is amazing :D
10:53:43 <Amis> now i can send openttd to tray icon :D
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10:54:45 <TinoDidriksen> Any particular reason you want to tray a game? That's kinda unusual.
10:56:24 <TinoDidriksen> Better trick is to have taskbar on the left side of the screen and auto-hide enabled. Much more room for multiple windows.
10:56:43 <Amis> the game at me is always running, if i dont use it i do not close it, just press pause any minimaze it, then when i want to play again i bring it up
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10:57:19 <a1270> Virtual desktops are your friend.
10:57:35 <Amis> too cimplicated for me :D
11:02:02 <Gekz> LordAzamath: wheres my screeny!
11:02:20 <LordAzamath> I'm makning an animation :P
11:03:17 <Amis> flash is the best thing i ever seen :D
11:03:24 <Gekz> you need to get out more, ay?
11:06:38 <Amis> i dont really understnad you
11:06:45 <LordAzamath> gekz, there you go
11:07:11 <LordAzamath> and I can't make flash in linux atm.. And I'm not going to reboot to make flash
11:07:27 <LordAzamath> Which doesn't mean I can't make flash
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11:07:39 <LordAzamath> ok.. actually I'll reupload it
11:07:45 <LordAzamath> with bigger delays
11:08:12 <Gekz_> tell me what I'm looking at
11:08:17 <Gekz_> it just looks like randomly cropped images
11:10:01 <LordAzamath> you are looking at roads..
11:10:21 <Gekz_> I see no variation. Huzzah!
11:10:24 <LordAzamath> for different climates/different countries
11:10:42 <Gekz_> They all look like the same road on every climate to me
11:10:52 <Gekz_> with the lines being yellow sometimes
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12:00:39 <yorick> when I switch climates, snow will appear, but will that snow stay when I switch back
12:01:13 <LordAzamath> snow in temperate :)
12:01:44 <yorick> with the correct grf, it will look nice
12:02:04 <LordAzamath> like the opengfx newterrain
12:02:17 <LordAzamath> which has smooth snow transition
12:02:34 <LordAzamath> and supports snow in temperate and snow in arctic
12:02:52 <yorick> I'm using the EraTe Snow Tiles
12:03:12 <LordAzamath> Zephyris wrote: "Adds snow in temperate sprites (not supported in yet, see by starting a sub-arctic game and switching climate to temperate)"
12:03:30 <LordAzamath> opengfx_-_newterrain_v0.4.grf
12:03:48 <yorick> hylje, the snow will get replaced by desert
12:04:45 <LordAzamath> they have the same sprite ID's..
12:05:38 <LordAzamath> so to make a replacement to desert, you have to replace snow tiles and limit it to tropical landscape
12:38:48 <Amis> whats the best way to converting railway into monorail?
12:39:47 <Amis> uhm... wow... thats the best? then i have to replace all trains one by one
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14:12:52 * yorick needs screenshot from LordAzamath
14:13:38 <LordAzamath> and the fruit plantation is one post more below :D
14:14:31 * yorick accidentaly opened info with msinfo
14:15:28 <LordAzamath> but what do you think of fruit plantation?
14:16:37 <yorick> looks like plastic toy trees
14:16:57 <yorick> and they have a strange cross underneath
14:17:46 <LordAzamath> originally, it's a line not a cross..
14:18:18 <LordAzamath> and the green/brown is taken from zephyris' sprites..
14:19:09 <LordAzamath> and actually, they are same trees.. just the darker one is starting to die :D
14:19:55 <yorick> are trees multicolored in real
14:24:09 <Gonozal_VIII> what's that ugly yellow grid stuff in the middle of some crossings in the 2nd gif?
14:28:22 <LordAzamath> dunno.. Zephyris' sprites
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14:31:26 <Alberth> dark/light tree-lines in the first plantation are less nice than in second imo, probably due to viewing angle.
14:32:38 <Alberth> not sure about the cross at the bottom, I think a line would be better. In the second plantation, you probably don't want that line in the same direction as the tree-lines
14:37:50 <Alberth> would shifting even tree rows a few pixels improve things? (it would be less of a line then)
14:37:51 <LordAzamath> ok.. added screenie with line :)
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14:39:41 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe the whole thing a bit less symmetrical (not a rectangle) and with a small building
14:40:21 <Gonozal_VIII> won't work i guess^^
14:40:27 <Amis> how can i increase the allowed number of airports in openttd? if its possible
14:41:08 <Gonozal_VIII> you mean that 2 per city thing?
14:41:12 <LordAzamath> Gonozal_VIII: I've got only two tiles (the trees and the terrain) to work with
14:41:29 <Gonozal_VIII> yes i thought about that right after i wrote it
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14:43:05 <Amis> so Gonozal_VIII how can i increase that?
14:44:18 <Amis> uhm... any easier way? or explain me what do i have to do to make that, with what i open, with what i make exe etc...
14:44:50 <Gonozal_VIII> oh you can't compile... then it's probably not a good idea to modify the source
14:45:41 <Alberth> incrase number of cities perhaps?
14:46:15 <yorick> if you want to place more than 2 airports in 1 city
14:46:34 <yorick> all airports in a city will be seen as belonging to that city
14:47:23 <Gonozal_VIII> or you could try to NOT abuse the balance issues the planes have and play with trains, rvs and ships instead :P
14:48:33 <Amis> i need one more airport... i have 2 heliport and now i cant place that fckng intercontinental...
14:48:54 <Gonozal_VIII> interconti has helipads
14:49:37 <Amis> i got a town with 27.000, the heliports are in the MIDDLE and in use, the airport goes next to the town
14:50:41 <Gonozal_VIII> remove helipad, place airport outside the city where it still accepts passengers and mail and establish some bus/tram routes to carry them there :P
14:51:08 <Amis> okkey lets make traffic chaos......
14:51:31 <Alberth> the town asked for it, didn't they...... :)
14:52:41 <Amis> i limited the size of the town so it grow inside a 40x40 field, so it make more big houses and less small houses... so the city is small and big too
14:52:58 <Amis> thats why itll cause traffic chaos :D
14:54:17 <Gonozal_VIII> airport could never handle all those passengers anyways, you can only collect them from a small fraction of the city
14:54:45 <Gonozal_VIII> or you use huge passenger trains...
14:55:41 <Amis> well i dont like airplanes at all because if one crash it ruin all station's rate in the city... but now the city is too big for only trains and trams :D
14:56:12 <Gonozal_VIII> airports have low capacity compared to trains
14:56:52 <Amis> but airports are good to make large accept range for other stations :)
14:57:10 <Gonozal_VIII> trams and transfer :P
14:57:21 <Alberth> maybe 40x40 was too big for a city?
14:57:52 <Gonozal_VIII> should be managable with a lot of trams and trains
14:58:08 <Amis> yeah trams, i love em, thats the best in the 0.6.0 :)
14:58:28 <Alberth> if you don't want air-ports, but you need them due to growth....
14:58:57 <Gonozal_VIII> i use helipads only for tourists
14:59:42 <Gonozal_VIII> yay new atlantis episode download complete :D
15:01:12 <Alberth> what I said previously, your 40x40 limit may be too large
15:01:35 <Amis> why? that 40x40 area is filled with houses
15:03:32 <Amis> btw im not that good in openttd cuz i have it since last week, but i played with the original ttd when i was young :D
15:05:34 <Alberth> wow, that's a big city!
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15:06:24 <Amis> and big cause i limited the area where it can build houses, if you let the town "just" grow it will make a lot small useless house
15:08:36 <Alberth> you limit it by making a road around it that cannot be connecte to outwards, I see. Nice trick.
15:10:31 * yorick is patching openttd to remove cheats-used status
15:11:09 <yorick> no, and not the #osqc!
15:12:22 <yorick> some has to have snow on the mount everest
15:12:28 <yorick> >needs climate switching
15:12:43 <Amis> you wanna send texas to siberia?
15:14:05 <yorick> even more fun, I can make scenarios with a cheat enabled without having the used status
15:14:44 <Alberth> sounds like a candidate for a cmd-line option :)
15:14:48 <Amis> or you can make records without having the status turned on :)
15:15:35 <yorick> go patching it yourself, only 1 line to change
15:19:29 <Amis> with what you complain it?
15:20:08 <Alberth> a c++ compiler usually
15:21:21 <Amis> whats the adress of the openttd translate page? i wanna apply
15:21:43 <Amis> or whats the email where i can do it
15:23:20 <yorick> translator2.openttd.org
15:23:40 <Amis> i already talked with mihamek, he said he'll mail me the conversation cause i wasnt.. so i could not understand that at that time... but i havent recieved the mail yet
15:27:14 <Amis> oh wait... i got the mail :D just recieved it :D
15:28:59 <Alberth> about 103 other persons
15:29:38 <Zoeff> So erm, is autorenew broken in beta3 or an I just an idiot?
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15:30:34 <Amis> what i noticed that the autorenew do not work when you have no breakdown and you have no-service-no-breakdown option on
15:31:26 <Zoeff> with breakdowns you mean them stopping every once in a while with black smoke, right?
15:32:19 <yorick> try sending the train to depot
15:32:25 <Zoeff> and yer, it gets replaced during a service so if there are no services then it wont work..heh
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15:32:37 <Zoeff> did that, both to service and just to depot
15:32:48 <yorick> did you turn on autorenew
15:32:48 <Zoeff> (using the button that gives all trains that order)
15:32:57 <Zoeff> in the configure patches menu
15:33:05 <yorick> go submitting a bug report!
15:33:05 <Amis> do you have enough money?
15:33:13 <Zoeff> just under 100 million euros
15:33:24 <Zoeff> well its beta3, so im wondering if its already known >_>
15:34:06 <Zoeff> The engines that need to be replaced do not exist anymore though, but I did select some new versions in the Replace Vehicles menu
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15:39:33 <LordAzamath> hmm.. I have heard of Snow in Temperate, but Snow in Toyland?
15:40:25 <yorick> hmm...the anti-cheat indication works!
15:41:11 <yorick> every cheat removes the cheat-used sign :)
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15:42:15 <Tefad> unless someone is smooth and hacks their client
15:42:28 <Tefad> but then you get desyncs i would think
15:43:18 <yorick> cheat from cheat menu, I mean
15:43:59 *** yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
15:48:24 <RoRTom> has anyone a good coop didicated server config?
15:48:42 <RoRTom> i want to compare with mine :\
15:50:28 * Zoeff slaps Yorick|AFK around a bit with a large trout
15:50:59 <RoRTom> can i make the time go by slower?
15:51:08 <RoRTom> in the server setting?
15:51:28 <Gonozal_VIII> only with daylength patch
15:52:10 <RoRTom> mhm, thx i assumed that :|
15:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> i opened a .jpg screenshot
15:52:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> now my eyes hurt
15:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is your screenshot...
15:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> because it's jpg?!?
15:53:38 <Prof_Frink> Amis: It's a screenshot of hello.jpg
15:54:19 <Amis> paint dont know it, and i did not wanted to send the whole screen
15:54:28 <Amis> i use it when i post full screen :)
15:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> Amis: use the openttd function of "screenshot"
15:54:42 <Gonozal_VIII> new climate: crapland
15:54:52 <Gonozal_VIII> brown base sprites, yellow water...
15:55:08 <Amis> what option? where? who? why?
15:55:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> alternatively hold down the mouse on the ? icon
15:56:36 <Amis> so whats the problem with jpg? :D if its 10 quality it has the same looking as a png
15:57:04 <Amis> yeah, the only shit jpg is what you save with Paint
15:57:06 <Gonozal_VIII> try to read text in it then ;-)
15:57:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> the quality on that screenshot of yours is really bad
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15:57:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> and you can't make jpg do lossless
15:57:45 <Amis> (btw its cuz its not 100% zoom)
15:59:24 <Amis> wait.. you think i posted some jpg on forum? noooo
16:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> it doesn't matter if you post it on the forum or here
16:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> Amis: the problem with bad jpg's become really apparent when you zoom in a little on the picture...
16:02:07 <Amis> bad jpgs <<< thats what the normal people save with paint, 5 quality, thats not general for all jpg
16:02:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> LordAzamath: i really hope there will be a version of these roads without the yellow crossing thingy, it looks really ugly
16:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> i wouldn't use it just because of that
16:02:35 <LordAzamath> there actually is..
16:03:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> btw what about rail crossings?
16:04:44 <LordAzamath> I don't know.. because I only coded the sprites Zephyris gave me..
16:04:57 <SmatZ> [16:57:41] <Eddi|zuHause2> and you can't make jpg do lossless <-- you can
16:05:17 <LordAzamath> but I guess these will be done together with tunnels..
16:05:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: no, jpg is never lossless
16:05:26 <LordAzamath> but then it really has to be separate
16:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> jpg2000 has a lossless mode
16:06:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i have never seen anyone using these
16:06:13 <Amis> jpg can be lossless, at 10 (max) quality, but then it has huge size
16:06:38 <Amis> like my screenshot of 1152xdunno resolution 1 MB
16:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is not lossless...
16:07:43 <Amis> it is, i know how it works, it divide the pic into 8x8 or 4x4 parts then it make the res lower inside that and decrease the color depth
16:08:08 <SmatZ> JPEG2000 is better for photos than PNG if you want lossless compression
16:10:53 <Gonozal_VIII> openttd has a limited palette, png is good with that
16:11:42 <Amis> what if in the next few years they invent the 16 bit openttd? :D
16:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: i know, but it's not the average-user's-paint-standard-jpg
16:13:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> 32bit is already implemented
16:13:10 *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
16:13:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> just you don't see a difference, because the sprites are still 8bit
16:14:48 <Amis> OpenTTD 8.5.7 - 32bit color - Requirements: min. 5800 MHz CPU, 3D video card, 2 GB free disk space, 1280x1024
16:15:25 <Gonozal_VIII> 1280x1024 <-- too small
16:15:48 <Amis> than 1280x1024 minimum :D
16:17:15 <Gonozal_VIII> 7050*3000 will be default resolution by then....
16:17:27 <svippy> There are no CPUs like that ... at least in the consumer market.
16:17:42 <Amis> something like that... you have to use the newest HD-TV for openttd
16:17:56 <svippy> Don't wave all that fancy DRM at me.
16:18:09 <Prof_Frink> Amis: HDTV? I think you mean UHDV.
16:18:33 <svippy> I think he means UHUHDTV.
16:19:20 <Amis> i mean the 0.01mm wall-integrated 3D virtual TV
16:19:47 <Gonozal_VIII> wall integrated?
16:20:02 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: the pdf reader?
16:20:45 <LordAzamath> brain implant openttd?
16:21:33 <Gonozal_VIII> just brain implanted wlan... openttd doesn't have to run locally :-)
16:21:42 <Amis> *clap* - game paused 2 step - fast forward
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16:45:50 <Amis> yay reached 30.000 population and its still inside the 40x40
16:47:03 <Yorick> why does Luxembourg, Luxembour. fit and Luxembourg, Luxembourg not as town name?
16:48:52 <Gonozal_VIII> string length limited by pixel, not chars maybe?
16:51:31 <SmatZ> hmm no, really it is limited to text width
16:54:21 <Alberth> Zoeff: Problem confirmed in rev12030 trunk
16:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> Yorick: just write "Luxemburg" ;) has less characters ;)
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17:04:12 <LordAzamath> Rubber plantation
17:11:00 <Amis> the option with what you could build plantations and others is removed?
17:11:07 <UnderBuilder> hmmm... why removed PBS? a lot of users want it
17:11:30 <UnderBuilder> even if buggy, it can at least stop the buggers
17:13:14 <Amis> "the option with what you could build plantations and others is removed?"
17:13:44 <Yorick> options are never removed
17:14:11 <SmatZ> Amis: Economy patches - Primary industry creation method
17:15:55 <UnderBuilder> for those who want PBS, activate NPF
17:16:11 <UnderBuilder> for those who want performance, go YAPF
17:16:37 <Gonozal_VIII> not just performance... vehicles get lost a lot with npf
17:16:49 <Madassasin> if you really want pbs go code it!
17:16:58 <Yorick> prospecting = you pay less, and the place is random
17:17:16 <Yorick> Madassasin, there is already a patch for that
17:17:21 <Gonozal_VIII> and most of the time it doesn't work
17:17:41 <Madassasin> yeah, but it's still not ready to be used
17:17:45 <Noldo> ships suck with both though
17:17:54 <Madassasin> the old pbs was, but it was very buggy and yapf owns npf
17:18:22 <Madassasin> Noldo: the old pathfinder is best for ships
17:18:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> <UnderBuilder> hmmm... why removed PBS? a lot of users want it <- err... you are like 2 years late
17:19:25 <Madassasin> maybe if you compile with -O3 (I think it's -O2 right now) you might get some improvement, but I doubt it
17:19:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> and PBS was not removed because it wouldn't work with YAPF
17:19:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> YAPF was created because PBS didn't work at all
17:19:58 <Madassasin> that's a good reason, though
17:20:11 <Madassasin> yapf was made because npf was a resource hog
17:20:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> YAPF was created to introduce new PBS on top of it
17:20:33 <UnderBuilder> why not put at least a minimal capacity of PBS for stopping the 'where's PBS?' threads
17:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> UnderBuilder: there are like two new implementations out there
17:21:03 <Madassasin> UnderBuilder: PBS isn't a big priority, and nobody is interested in doing it
17:21:09 <Madassasin> plus the old PBS is way too buggy
17:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> Madassasin: that is totally not the case
17:22:00 <Yorick> READ THE FORUMS, there is a newPBS patch
17:22:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are multiple people interested, but it's a really complex and difficult project
17:22:27 <Madassasin> yes, but does it work like the old pbs? no, it's incomplete, the old implementation was nearly complete, but buggy
17:22:45 <Amis> man... watching Shock TV... amazing... cant stop laughing :D
17:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> the old implementation was not very good
17:23:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> the new ones have very interesting concepts
17:23:10 <Madassasin> I know, but it was better then the new one in terms that it was nearly complete
17:23:44 <Madassasin> last time I read that topic, it had trouble with depots
17:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> it was not "nearly complete" it was "semi-working with unmaintainable code and unsurmountable bugs"
17:24:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> and completely it died with the C++ port of openttd
17:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> because nobody could update it
17:25:31 <Madassasin> openttd wasn't "ported" to C++, just some parts were rewritten using some niceties that C++ gives, but most of the code is C as well
17:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> Madassasin: then go ahead, check out /branches/pbs, and update it to trunk
17:27:06 <Madassasin> I haven't messed with major C++ code, so what makes you think I can learn the internals of oepnttd in a blink?
17:27:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> then don't pretend you know what's going on
17:27:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> the PBS was removed because of the reasons i mentioned
17:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> openttd wouldn't be in the state it is now if they left it in
17:37:25 <Digitalfox> It's possible to use pikka industries + Tourists industries set?
17:41:57 <Maedhros> on which day - saturday or sunday? or is it just morning because you've only just woken up?
17:42:35 <LordAzamath> hmm.. ln- should be in same time-zone as I... it's 19:41 ^^
17:42:43 <ln-> isn't it a good time to wake up now...
17:47:23 <UnderBuilder> there is a patch, but not in trunk. users will still complain
17:47:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx_
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17:49:34 <Madassasin> UnderBuild: then go improve it
17:50:16 <UnderBuilder> I do not know C(++) programming
17:52:29 <Gonozal_VIII> almost the same for functions and stuff
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17:57:19 <valhallasw> Gonozal_VIII: yeah, except C++ fucks with your memory ;)
17:57:52 <LA[blackout]> My eletricity just went out :(
17:58:15 * valhallasw points out LA[blackout] is online
17:58:33 <LA[blackout]> but Lordazmath soon pings out
17:58:47 <Gonozal_VIII> my modem and router don't work without electricity :-/
17:58:51 <LA[blackout]> then I'll rechange my nick :D
17:59:02 <valhallasw> just an electricity hickup then?
17:59:09 *** LA[blackout] is now known as LordAzmath
17:59:15 *** LordAzmath is now known as LordAzamath
17:59:29 <LordAzamath> dunno what it is :D
17:59:51 <LordAzamath> I think overload maybe..
18:00:08 <LordAzamath> and it was like... DARK here :P
18:00:33 <Gonozal_VIII> wouldn't get any darker here than it already is
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18:08:20 <UnderBuilder> my openttd is lagging terribly but cpu usage is at ~10%
18:08:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
18:08:22 <UnderBuilder> I'm playing the hardcore server
18:10:12 <LordAzamath> then it's server's fault, which can't andle the load... OR you have like... very slow net
18:11:59 <UnderBuilder> I have 256k down/100k up
18:12:36 <UnderBuilder> there are also 10 ships in the game
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18:20:54 <Amis> 29x32 area - 33442 people :D :D :D
18:21:27 <Amis> i love this road-block-town thing
18:22:46 <Amis> am i talking to myself? *echo* *echo* *echo*
18:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> *echo* *echo* *echo*
18:24:03 <Amis> i am crazy doing a map only to test how big a city can in a limited area :)
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18:24:12 <UnderBuilder> the server is really screwed up
18:24:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> Amis: you could instead of blocking the city adjust the road style setting to "no roads"
18:24:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> then you can adjust city growth area by building the roads yourself
18:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> the town will not build additional roads under any circumstances
18:24:53 <LA[blackout]> hmm.. Beware, LordAzamath pings out soon
18:25:03 *** LA[blackout] is now known as LordAzamath
18:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> "new" as in several months old, yes
18:25:45 <Amis> "Select town-road layout?
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18:51:37 <Yorick> hmm...what stops the snow&desert in temperate patch from being included?
18:52:00 <Gonozal_VIII> stuff, you know?
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18:58:43 <UnderBuilder> but there is no desert&snow patch ready
18:59:17 <Gonozal_VIII> map array should be a bit modified to have some bits that define the ground sprite in every tile
18:59:48 <Gonozal_VIII> 4 bit should be enough
19:00:20 <Maedhros> a ground sprite can be any sprite, thus it needs up to 32 bits
19:00:43 <Gonozal_VIII> e.g. 0001 for grass
19:01:14 <Maedhros> and what about new houses, new industries, new stations, etc. etc. ?
19:01:16 <Gonozal_VIII> 1111 for defined by grf
19:01:34 *** Sogard^ is now known as Sogard
19:01:35 <Maedhros> the game can already determine what ground sprite to draw based on the tile type and anything else it needs which is already in the map array
19:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> the ground type only defines how it should look like, the actual sprite is calculated in a special function, which could include newgrf callbacks
19:03:04 <Gonozal_VIII> i know how that works now, i've looked at the code
19:03:15 <Maedhros> there is no sensible way of unifying it without storing the ground sprite id in the map, which is completely pointless because all the information you need is already there
19:03:32 <Gonozal_VIII> of course not ground sprite id
19:04:00 <Gonozal_VIII> like i said... it reads 0001 and draws flat grass + tileh
19:04:21 <Gonozal_VIII> 0010 same with desert
19:04:39 <Maedhros> instead of reading MP_CLEAR and drawing grass, the way it does now?
19:05:03 <Gonozal_VIII> it reads the subtype and density, that's 5 bit
19:05:24 <Gonozal_VIII> and works differently for all types
19:05:58 <DaleStan> Gonozal_VIII: There are nineteen different slopes. In arctic, there are a least 4 different snowinesses for each slope. That's 76 possibilities already, ignoring roads, rail, trees, and anything else that can't be dynamically newgrf adjusted.
19:06:15 <Gonozal_VIII> the slopes are no problem, that's in tileh
19:07:16 <Gonozal_VIII> it only needs the sprite set
19:07:25 <Gonozal_VIII> those are limited
19:07:40 <Maedhros> yes, limited to 16 if you want to only use 4 bits
19:08:00 <Gonozal_VIII> i wrote or 5 ;-) didn't count them yet
19:08:10 <Gonozal_VIII> but i'm going to
19:08:33 <DaleStan> Roads have 30 different groundsprites, rail at least 28.
19:09:00 <Gonozal_VIII> road and rail should be drawn seperately
19:09:03 <DaleStan> Actually, I think roads might be 45.
19:09:37 <Maedhros> they are drawn separately
19:09:38 <DaleStan> But they aren't. The road is part of the ground sprite.
19:09:49 <Gonozal_VIII> i know, that can be changed
19:09:56 <Maedhros> oh, that's what you mean
19:10:21 <Gonozal_VIII> would make combining road and terrain sets also a lot easier
19:11:24 <LordAzamath> that means dropping support for current trg* graphics
19:11:40 <DaleStan> ... And I just came up with 16 more rail sprites.
19:11:45 <LordAzamath> if you want different graphics..
19:12:26 <Gonozal_VIII> you can still use them + some extra sprites that only have rail/road + transparency
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19:13:10 <Gonozal_VIII> rail already has those sprites
19:13:22 <LordAzamath> only for junctions
19:13:39 <Gonozal_VIII> they could work everywhere
19:13:53 <LordAzamath> that would render a big part of trggish grf absolote..
19:14:16 <Gonozal_VIII> and that's a bad thing because?
19:14:17 <LordAzamath> so even for space consideration, it would be wiser to get new graphics
19:14:53 <Gonozal_VIII> well... you're helping at that part ;-)
19:14:58 <LordAzamath> the mandatory grfs take 1,3 Mb
19:15:47 <LordAzamath> and openttd(w) takes 371kb
19:17:08 <LordAzamath> and it would drop the support for existing newgrfs too..
19:17:50 <LordAzamath> and why can't we have that extra rail sprite or whatever currently? because the original graphics are (c)
19:17:54 <Gonozal_VIII> could still draw their road/rail sprites
19:20:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> you are talking about at least 3 toally different things here
19:20:56 <Gonozal_VIII> i'm talking about storing stuff differently in the map array
19:21:11 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't have to change any grf stuff for that
19:21:18 <Gonozal_VIII> but makes it possible
19:21:39 <UnderBuilder> where is the snow&desert patch?
19:21:49 <Gonozal_VIII> that will work then
19:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> exactly, but these last 30 lines here did not at all touch that part
19:22:05 <Gonozal_VIII> i didn't bring it in that direction ;-)
19:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> but you went along and got distracted
19:23:00 <UnderBuilder> I can't find the thread
19:23:02 <Gonozal_VIII> but while being distracted i've been looking through trg1r grf for ground sprites
19:24:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> UnderBuilder: snow AND desert is impossible
19:26:06 <Gonozal_VIII> btw were those rock tiles without grass around the border ever used anywhere?
19:26:24 <UnderBuilder> then what is that patch?
19:26:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> scenario editor?
19:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't usually pay attention to rocks
19:27:41 <UnderBuilder> <Yorick> hmm...what stops the snow&desert in temperate patch from being included?
19:27:48 <UnderBuilder> the patch he mentions
19:28:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> he is talking rubbish
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19:39:46 <LordAzamath> hmm.. if snow and desert in Temperate is inpossible...
19:40:00 * LordAzamath wants only snow in temperate
19:40:19 <LordAzamath> which is actually seeable with current trunk..
19:40:31 * orudge` is in the tropics right now, and there's lots and lots of snow!
19:40:35 <orudge`> (funnily enough, I jest)
19:41:03 <LordAzamath> orudge`: If you wait, I can make a grf -> desert to snow :P
19:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> orudge`: shouldn't you have like summer down there?
19:44:27 <LordAzamath> Yorick: You played on #wwottdgd ?
19:46:49 <orudge`> Eddi|zuHause2: yes, I was on the beach today
19:46:57 <orudge`> I'm a bit sunburnt now, alas
19:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> a friend just returned from half a year in La Réunion, she really hated the cold here ;)
19:52:59 <Gonozal_VIII> desert with snow nogood, right?
20:06:34 <orudge`> well, deserts can be hot or cold
20:06:45 <orudge`> *doesn't necessarily imply hot
20:08:16 <Gonozal_VIII> 6 bit would enable all terrain types at once
20:08:32 <Gonozal_VIII> 2 bit for temperate/arctic/rainforest/desert
20:09:30 <Gonozal_VIII> and 4 bit for clear/third grass/two third grass/grass/hilly/rocky/water/9 field types
20:09:56 <Gonozal_VIII> snow depends on height
20:10:19 <Gonozal_VIII> can even have different heights for different first 2 bits :-)
20:16:42 *** pm is now known as planetmaker
20:21:33 <Tefad> usually people think of "desert" as having sand, not snow though.
20:21:42 <Gonozal_VIII> not if you want them both on the same map
20:21:58 <Gonozal_VIII> in ttd desert is the sandy hot type
20:22:41 <Tefad> i don't think there's any place that has both in same general area..
20:22:46 <Tefad> without temperate between
20:22:51 <Tefad> though i could be wrong . .
20:28:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: the main thing you are forgetting is transition between terrain types
20:28:44 <Gonozal_VIII> can be calculated on the fly, doesn't need storing
20:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> calculating "on the fly" might be too time consuming
20:29:21 <Gonozal_VIII> desert rainforrest transition does that
20:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> doesn't mean it's a good idea ;)
20:30:21 <Gonozal_VIII> then store transitions too?
20:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can't store everything ;)
20:31:04 <Gonozal_VIII> you said it's too complicated to calculate ;-)
20:31:15 <Gonozal_VIII> storing transitions would be 2 more bits
20:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, the two ideas are conflicting ;)
20:32:44 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest215
20:33:25 <Gonozal_VIII> map generator would have to avoid generation of regions where 3 zones meet... but that shouldn't be too hard
20:33:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think that
20:34:50 <yorick> it doesn't generate them anyway :-)
20:35:10 <Gonozal_VIII> two extra bits, same system as the first two bits... if they are the same... no transition... different.. transition
20:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: especially with varying snowline you can't avoid it
20:35:25 <Gonozal_VIII> snowline doesn't change the zones
20:35:36 <Gonozal_VIII> zones are fixed like desert now
20:36:18 <ln-> someone could modify the map to allow all three climates on the same map.
20:36:31 <Gonozal_VIII> that's what i'm talking about
20:36:48 <Gonozal_VIII> 2 bits for climate, 4 bits for terrain
20:36:53 <HMage> ямям. всем спокойной ночи.
20:37:05 <Gonozal_VIII> evtl another 2 bit for neighbouring climate
20:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> "evtl" is not even close to english ;)
20:38:43 <Gonozal_VIII> what's correct english for that?
20:38:47 <Gonozal_VIII> clear ground, 1/3 grass, 2/3 grass, grass, hilly, rocky, water, field 1, field 2, field 3, field 4, field 5, field 6, field 7, field 8 and field 9
20:39:02 <Gonozal_VIII> those are the terrain types in those 4 bits
20:39:52 <Gonozal_VIII> no abbreviation?
20:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't know much about english abbreviation rules
20:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, english "eventually" and german "eventuell" are false friends
20:44:15 <LordAzamath> jamjam... HMage likes to jam :P
20:44:30 <LordAzamath> or he is listening to song "jamming"
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21:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not sure wether "Mehdorn" is a good name to use in a transport simulation ;)
21:05:16 <Gonozal_VIII> i knew i've heard that name somewhere
21:05:24 <Mehdorn> :-) thats what I thought when I had to fill the "useranme" field
21:07:16 <Gonozal_VIII> so what are you looking for?
21:08:28 <Mehdorn> download link fo the openttcoop server
21:08:51 <Gonozal_VIII> that would be the one i gave you^^
21:09:14 <Gonozal_VIII> or do they have modified version now?
21:09:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12044 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#1741]: crash when centering on a vehicle (aircraft) that is outside of the map.
21:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> Mehdorn: you might have better luck in #openttdcoop
21:09:47 <Roujin> i just read that the commit introduces a crash ^^
21:14:38 <Maedhros> for as long as people are watching it, i guess
21:15:14 <ln-> but this scriptwriters' strike and all?
21:15:21 <Gonozal_VIII> no that logic doesn't work
21:15:44 <Gonozal_VIII> lots of series were shut down despite people watching them
21:16:40 <Maedhros> well, yes. i was missing a few words there, like "enough" ;)
21:16:55 * Maedhros doesn't think we want to know
21:18:11 * Roujin shamelessly advertises the new versions of his patches... ^^
21:18:37 <LordAzamath> Shame, Roujin, shame"
21:18:45 * Roujin 's patches obviously aren't liked by MDGrein
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21:27:53 <ln-> downloading 4x01 at mere 700 kB/s through HTTP.
21:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: they finished 8 out of 16 episodes before the strike started
21:32:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the channel decided to show these 8 episodes anyway
21:33:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, they ordered 3 more seasons of 16 episodes last year
21:33:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> with the definite ending in season 6
21:33:35 <ln-> but season 3 was like 23 episodes.
21:33:50 <Gonozal_VIII> and the definite final ending in season 10
21:33:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, 1 and 2 were 24 episodes
21:34:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: i have my doubts of that happening :p
21:35:28 <Gonozal_VIII> so you think it will continue after season 10?
21:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> with a series like lost you can't just go on producing not knowing you'd be picked up for next season again on a yearly basis
21:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> you need to plan far ahead with the story
21:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> to resolve everything on a single spot
21:36:06 <Gonozal_VIII> there's a story?
21:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> after you resolve _anything_ the show would get really boring
21:36:11 <Gonozal_VIII> they just make shit up
21:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, that is the story ;)
21:36:28 <Gonozal_VIII> and after that shit is stirred enough, they make up some new
21:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think fixing the number of episodes was the best thing they could do
21:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> so they can plan on really going out with a bang
21:38:04 <Gonozal_VIII> like world exploding and stuff?
21:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> i wouldn't put it past them :p
21:39:14 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't that stupid number crap have something to do with world end anyways?
21:39:45 <Gonozal_VIII> well... i've only seen some random episodes
21:40:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's not a good approach to watch the series ;)
21:40:51 <Gonozal_VIII> i noticed that^^
21:41:09 <Gonozal_VIII> they run around in the jungle...
21:41:18 <Gonozal_VIII> next time they run around in some buildings...
21:41:24 <Gonozal_VIII> things explode...
21:47:31 <ln-> watching now, i'll spoil you in about 50 minutes.
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22:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> i've already seen the episode ;)
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22:12:44 <OSuKaRu^-^_> I have the 0.6.0 version of openttd and just dont work the 32bpp tiles
22:13:00 <OSuKaRu^-^_> How i make it work?
22:13:16 <OSuKaRu^-^_> other fact: im using linux
22:14:53 <OSuKaRu^-^_> i read the readme file
22:15:12 <OSuKaRu^-^_> and, in fact, a file called 32bpp.txt
22:15:36 <OSuKaRu^-^_> but i get nothing
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22:16:54 <SmatZ> OSuKaRu^-^_: is your problem running OTTD in 32bpp mode, or loading 32bpp graphics?
22:18:32 <OSuKaRu^-^_> im just dont know what to do
22:19:07 <OSuKaRu^-^_> and im having hopes to see the things in the new zoom levels, if is possible
22:19:25 <OSuKaRu^-^_> sorry for my chunky english
22:19:58 <glx> more zoom in is not in official builds
22:22:13 <OSuKaRu^-^_> by the way, They doing amazing things
22:22:28 <OSuKaRu^-^_> im cheering up to do my own stuff
22:23:07 <OSuKaRu^-^_> but i dont know how
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22:41:04 <Madassasin> does OTTD use DirectMusic (or whatever it's called) for the MSVC build?
22:42:05 <Madassasin> I'm asking because I got the nov 2007 directx sdk and: ..\src\music\dmusic.cpp(13) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'dmksctrl.h': No such file or directory
22:45:00 <Species8472> lol god killed dihedrals server :<
22:46:27 <OSuKaRu^-^_> where i put the .diff files to make them work?
22:47:00 <Madassasin> you need to apply them to the source code and compile openttd
22:47:07 <Madassasin> what operating system are you using?
22:47:51 <Rubidium> Madassasin: the more recent DirectX SDKs have removed that header
22:48:16 <OSuKaRu^-^_> Madassasin : im usin debian
22:48:18 <Madassasin> yeah, so is there any way to compile it without midi? I don't care bout the music
22:48:25 <OSuKaRu^-^_> in other words: linux
22:48:39 <Zuu> OSuKaRu^-^_: use the tool "patch"
22:48:53 <Madassasin> OSuKaRu^-^: one sec
22:48:55 <Rubidium> Madassasin: there is a compile flag that you can remove to remove dmusic compilation. How you exactly do that is something I do not know
22:49:04 <Sacro> Madassasin: yes it does, drop back to the SDK before that
22:49:09 <Zuu> OSuKaRu^-^_: patch -p0 < filename.diff
22:49:22 <Sacro> patch -p0 -i filename.diff
22:49:26 <Madassasin> I'm not gonna dl 500 megs again and wait 1 hour for it to install!
22:49:28 <Zuu> While you are standing in your openttd source directory.
22:50:12 <Sacro> Madassasin: no sound for you then :p
22:50:54 <Rubidium> Sacro: sound doesn't need dmusic, only the music needs it
22:51:05 <Sacro> OSuKaRu^-^_: actually, debian is GNU/Linux
22:51:33 <glx> Madassasin: in project properties, remove WIN32_ENABLE_DIRECTMUSIC_SUPPORT from preprocessor definitions
22:51:44 <Madassasin> can we stop with the name crap? use debian, we know what it is
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22:52:04 <Sacro> should I consider writing a music patch for Vista/DX10/VS2008
22:52:06 <glx> and music can work without direct music
22:52:12 <Madassasin> also, is there any good reason for telling MSVC to make it smaller instead of faster?
22:52:54 <Madassasin> (eg /Os instead of /Oi (to favor speed))
22:52:59 <Zuu> Sacro: Depends maybe on orudges new soundsystem plans?
22:53:11 <glx> Sacro: not needed, the only way is using mmsys.dll (ie current -m win32)
22:54:01 <Rubidium> then why do we have dmusic?
22:54:06 <Madassasin> can't wait for a orudge's patch
22:54:32 <glx> hmm it is winmm.dll indeed
22:54:47 <glx> and we have dmusic because winmm can fail
22:55:08 <Madassasin> what in M$ world can't fail?
22:55:41 <Zuu> The fail-reports can fail though.. :p
22:56:25 <Zuu> good enough it reminded be later so I was offered to re-send them. :p
22:57:01 <glx> I never had any problems with winmm, but I remember many bug reports about not working music
22:57:23 <Madassasin> I don't really care about the music, I care about the game
22:57:32 <Madassasin> I even disable the music
22:57:54 <SmatZ> you can play the music in external application anyway
22:58:16 <Madassasin> (damn fobar2000, it can't play 192 kbit ogg vorbis without the sound being choppy)
22:58:31 <ln-> spoilers for Lost 4x01: well yeah, hmm, nothing new really is revealed, so hard to spoil.
22:58:55 <Rubidium> and by saying that he spoiled the whole episode
22:59:45 <ln-> and if i didn't, it's still very characteristic of a Lost episode not to reveal anything new.
23:00:02 <Madassasin> didn't harry die in 6?
23:00:21 <SmatZ> ln-: so it is characteristic for Lost that there is anything new in each episode? boring, isn't it? :)
23:00:27 <Madassasin> we need #openttd-offtopic
23:00:28 <SmatZ> Madassasin: I don't know, really :(
23:01:47 <ln-> Madassasin: so that you canl talk about music?
23:02:06 <Madassasin> guys, #openttd-offtopic :D
23:02:42 <ln-> Madassasin: who are you to tell us what's offtopic?
23:04:18 <Madassasin> come in, I'm giving free beer :P:P
23:06:05 <Madassasin> how does open manage utf8? wchar_t or multibyte?
23:08:40 <Rubidium> utf8 is a byte (char) way of writing multibyte characters
23:09:51 <Madassasin> to be honest, I'm totally confused with this unicode support, there are many unicode encodings, quite some ways of representing them...arghh
23:14:09 <Madassasin> Rubidium: does UTf-8 need char, signed char or unsigned char?
23:14:40 <Rubidium> doesn't really matter
23:14:49 <Rubidium> it's basically all the same
23:15:00 <Rubidium> but where do you want to use it?
23:15:19 <Madassasin> where would you use encodings?
23:15:56 <Rubidium> uhm... needing to know whether something is signed or unsigned doesn't mean you are thinking about texts, but about loading them somewhere
23:16:07 <Madassasin> well, windows registry
23:16:50 <Madassasin> as the api requires to pass unsigned char*, which is annoying, as reinterpret_cast does...nothing
23:21:10 <Madassasin> hmm: LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file 'dxguid.lib'
23:21:58 <Madassasin> that doesn't look good at all
23:24:33 <glx> Madassasin: of course, you need to update linker options too
23:39:01 <orudge`> [19:54:06] <Madassasin> can't wait for a orudge's patch <-- shall get it finished when back in Britain
23:41:56 <Sacro> orudge`: i thought you where going back to Wales/Scotland D:
23:42:44 <orudge`> We'll be flying back to Gatwick on Thursday
23:42:48 <orudge`> then I'll be driving back up to Wales
23:42:54 <orudge`> and then, probably the next day, driving back up to Scotland
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continue to next day ⏵
