IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-01-11
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00:04:03 <Sacro> SmatZ: where is SIGNAL_STATE_{RED,GREEN} declared?
00:04:06 <Sacro> SmatZ: if (tracks == TRACK_BIT_HORZ || tracks == TRACK_BIT_VERT) ← doesn't that need more brackets?
00:05:46 <SmatZ> Sacro: I think more brackets wouldn't help the code readability
00:06:41 <Sacro> i can't read lines i type
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00:30:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11811 /trunk/ (12 files in 4 dirs): -Fix: make compilation without networking work again (and thus move the debugdumpcommand stuff out of the network 'area').
00:35:14 * orudge has hacked together a new sound mixer for OpenTTD from the ScummVM sound mixer. He wonders if it will work.
00:36:00 <orudge> I say hacked, the implementation is rather clean, I'm just not sure if it'll work in practice :P
00:38:49 * orudge is now having the Children's BBC theme playing on the about box, because it was the first wav file he could find :P
00:39:25 <orudge> of course, I really should have been revising, instead
00:39:31 <orudge> but hey, a new sound engine for OpenTTD will be no bad thing
00:40:49 <orudge> it worked fine at 11025Hz, it's not quite right at 44100Hz
00:40:56 <orudge> but perhaps something else still thinks it's at 11025
00:43:17 <ln-> what's the imperial unit for Hertz?
00:43:28 <orudge> I didn't know there was one
00:43:38 <ln-> me neither, but i was hoping you'd know
00:43:58 <Sacro> as tis cycles per second
00:44:04 <Sacro> and seconds are not decimal
00:44:23 <ln-> but seconds happen to be an SI unit
00:44:49 <Sacro> ln-: yes, but not necesserily metric
00:45:13 <ln-> only last year i learned about this unit called Rankine.
00:50:54 <ln-> cool, i found a table which lists the imperial unit for Hz.
00:56:08 <orudge> the new sound engine now supports the old sample.cat sounds
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02:22:25 <DaleStan> Rubidium: Cannot reproduce. Please provide version numbers and GRF order. (It worked for me, regardless of which one I placed first.)
02:30:46 <DaleStan> Rubidium: Also, no readily apparent reason in NFO for "Fish" not to be defined exactly once, in slot 0E.
02:51:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... my RMB is broken...
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09:39:25 <peter____> i need a web developer / coding guy
09:41:39 <dihedral> what is it you need, and any specific location in the uk, peter__?
09:42:21 <peter____> yes, to be located in buckinghamshire
09:42:48 <peter____> this is for permanent employment, not a bit of php on the side ;)
09:45:34 <dihedral> why on earth is that underscor line at the end of you nick longer than yesterday?
09:48:25 <peter____> peter_ and peter__ were already taken :d
09:49:01 <dihedral> and - when did they last login?
09:49:23 <dihedral> 'cause if it's a while back they can release it again
09:52:05 <dihedral> play hide 'n seek in the dark... we'll come to find you
09:52:45 <roboman> I dont feel like playing TTDP/OTTD unless its coop
09:53:03 <roboman> or on someones server
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09:55:20 * roboman wonders where his windows XP disk is
09:55:48 <roboman> and why his pc wont boot/repair
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10:16:20 <peter____> gah, power brown out :(
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10:54:38 <dihedral> by the way, storing a game_seed in the config of servers has a side affect
10:54:58 <dihedral> every first map of a dedicated server is then based on that seed
10:58:05 <DorpsGek> dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 13 hours, 51 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <Bjarni> declaring that nobody else enters his garage
11:07:37 <rave> excellent, the game is still popular I see
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13:02:40 <dihedral> i meant the statement about closing industries being a general bug in ottd and soforth
13:17:13 * SmatZ agrees automatic industry closing / construction should be a patch option
13:17:22 <SmatZ> as it is useful for scenarios
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13:28:17 <Digitalfox> Anyone uses a good program to merge 2 or more txt files in just one txt?
13:29:09 <Maedhros> not telling people which OS you're using doesn't help, btw ;)
13:29:22 <pv2b> Digitalfox: is this on windows?
13:29:44 <pv2b> because on most other operating systems (which happen to have a unixlike userland) there's cat.
13:30:07 <pv2b> copy file1.txt+file2.txt bigfile.txt
13:30:16 <pv2b> use copy/b if you're doing binary file concatenation
13:30:25 <pv2b> otherwise windows manages to mess them up somehow
13:33:42 <ln-> Digitalfox: install cygwin
13:39:16 <Digitalfox> Well it's 234 txt files each with 2MB, it's txt files with IP's ranges that contains what my ISP considers internal traffic and gives me ilimited traffic to use with that IP's..
13:39:47 <Digitalfox> " 125.124.178.0/24 - Internacional " for line
13:40:13 <Digitalfox> " 124.254.36.0/24 - Nacional " another line
13:40:33 <Digitalfox> yeah if i could, i'm alreday using a program to test each ip in my ISP
13:40:51 <Digitalfox> in an automatic mode
13:41:48 <Digitalfox> yes, my ISP has a web page that when you insert an ip says what it considers to be
13:42:07 <Digitalfox> National or International
13:43:03 <Digitalfox> This program i use test each ip automatic by using that page, and then writes a txt with the category it belongs
13:43:45 <skidd13> If you like the city and other stuff too :D
13:43:52 <Digitalfox> skidd13: Thanks but not that
13:44:11 <Digitalfox> this is the web page we can insert a IP
13:44:40 <Digitalfox> Let's say you put 20.0.0.0 it will say it's an internacional IP
13:44:53 <skidd13> The page I posted provides the ip-ranges sorted to countries :D
13:45:19 <skidd13> Basicly the basis for your posted script :D
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13:45:26 <Digitalfox> putting this one 40.252.48.0 will say it's a range in nacional list
13:45:32 <pv2b> Digitalfox: so what are you trying to achieve?
13:46:10 <Digitalfox> But skidd13 my ISP has to have some kind of agreement with another ISP to consider it nacional otherwise even in portuguese terrain it will say it's internacional
13:47:04 <pv2b> Digitalfox: why are you concatenating the files?
13:47:06 <dihedral> why not log to a db?
13:47:15 <Digitalfox> Well here in portugal we have some kind of ipfilters with just the nacional ip's our main ISP considers nacional traffic, and we use it with servers we only want people from to join, use it in P2P programs to only download nacional traffic etc...
13:47:36 <skidd13> Digitalfox: If you are in the same country, wheres the problem?
13:47:47 <Digitalfox> Example 62.28.0.0/16 # PT Prime
13:48:16 <Digitalfox> Skidd my ISP doesn't think that way it has to have a specific route and use some kind of agreement
13:48:33 <Digitalfox> For example it Uses AS702 from Verizon, but doesn't like any US AS
13:48:47 <pv2b> Digitalfox: ok, so you have text files with networks considered to be national and international, now what doyou want to do with that data?
13:49:37 <Digitalfox> pv2b, well first i need to remove any ip on txt that says internacional
13:49:52 <skidd13> Digitalfox: Ah not fastest route... cheapest route :D
13:49:55 <Digitalfox> Then i need to convert any /24 to /16 or /17 if needed
13:50:36 <pv2b> Digitalfox: why don't you just store the data about permissible addresses in some kind of tree structure?
13:50:51 <Digitalfox> Then manually i'll have to make a query to see what AS or organization uses that IP so it looks better and people know what ip's they are allowing
13:50:51 <pv2b> that way you'd get pretty fast lookups
13:51:13 <pv2b> i'm interested in what you're trying to do, not how you're doing it :-)
13:51:35 <Digitalfox> Because a lot of portuguese progrmas were made to work with just a txt ip/16
13:52:22 <Noldo> doesn't that break stuff horribly when behind a nat?
13:52:53 <Digitalfox> It just blocks any traffic used by that program that isn't in the list
13:53:37 <Digitalfox> let's say emule, by loading the txt it will not allow any internacional Ip's to connect
13:53:37 <pv2b> Digitalfox: oh wait, you want to find "blobs" in the permissible/nonpermissible networks and consolidate them into fewer networks to reduce the number of lines?
13:53:52 <pv2b> why didnt you just say so?
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13:54:42 <Digitalfox> lol English is not my fisrt language so it's not always easy to speack what i'm thinking
13:54:48 <pv2b> sounds like you could apply a recursive tree-based consolidation algorithm for that
13:55:16 <LA[lord]> digitalfox, earlier you didn't make THAT much mistakes :D
13:55:39 <pv2b> in other words, store everything into a binary tree, which on every node stores blocked/not blocked/mixed
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13:55:50 * LA[lord] has GRFMaker finally
13:56:18 <pv2b> then you iterate over the tree with a depth-first search and if a mixed node has two nodes of hte same status, convert that node itself into the same status
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13:57:26 <pv2b> now you probably fdon't even need to store it in an actual tree, you just need a quick way to look up whether a certain line exists in the sample, you could easilly use python and a dictioanry for that
13:58:01 <Digitalfox> Will try something like that :)
13:59:08 <pv2b> for all network address lengths 32->0:
13:59:15 <pv2b> for all networks of that length:
13:59:33 <pv2b> if the network's immediate binary neighbour also exists in the list:
13:59:47 <pv2b> remove both networks and add the consolidated network
14:00:21 <pv2b> then just run an algo to eliminate any duplicates you might get
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14:01:03 <pv2b> though that will not be neccessary if there are no redundant lines or duplicates in the input to start with
14:07:11 <Forked> urgh. utf-8 mandatory in this channel? using irssi, how the ..do I set utf-8 on one channel/network and still use ISO-8859-1 on another :\
14:08:37 <Forked> 0.8.11 .. but I guess I can upgrade :)
14:09:02 <Noldo> /recode add #channel CharacterSet
14:09:23 <Forked> Irssi: Added #openttd/UTF-8 to conversion database
14:09:54 <Forked> I knew there was a command I had forgotten, cheers
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14:29:55 <peter____> iso-8859-1 is mandatory on some channels? urgh.
14:31:00 <Forked> nah, but for us with these special norwegian chars and having old iso-8859-1 friends .. we try to avoid puking too much on their screen
14:32:27 <murray> utf-8 backwardscompatible my ass
14:36:01 <Maedhros> with 7-bit ascii, yes. it never claimed to be backwards compatible with anything else, as far as i know
14:36:50 <Maedhros> on a different note, i do with i could work out how to display it properly with a combination of freebsd, rxvt-unicode, screen and irssi
14:37:29 <Maedhros> hmm, i seem to have developed a lisp. s/with/wish/
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15:11:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11812 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: introduce TrainExitDir() to simplify some functions
15:16:49 <waldo_> openttd 0.6b keeps telling me it cant open my sample.cat .. its the same as the one i used for 0.5.3 .. also downloaded a new copy of the game and tried with those ... i put them in /data and chmodded them 777
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15:18:00 <waldo_> are the names case sensitive on a linux system (*.grf and smaple.cat) if so should they be in caps or not
15:19:27 <Maedhros> yes, they are case-sensitive. sample.cat is always lower case. the windows (trg?r.grf) files are lower case, and the DOS (TRG?.GRF) are upper case
15:25:54 <waldo_> tried both versions i have in both caps and no casp :S
15:28:15 <pv2b> waldo_: so wait, where exactly do you keep the files?
15:29:01 <waldo_> ~/Desktop/openttd-0.6.0-beta2/data/
15:30:01 <waldo_> /home/waldo/ ... in front of that to be more precise
15:30:21 <Maedhros> it should now be in either ~/Desktop/openttd-0.6.0-beta2/bin/data, or ~/.openttd/data
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15:33:20 <waldo_> ok, now it doesn't say there is a problem with the files anymore .. it just goes back to terminal :S
15:33:35 <waldo_> any way of turning verbose mode on ?
15:33:55 <Forked> try starting it from a terminal
15:35:02 <waldo_> doing that ... just goes back to terminal ... just deleted the.cfg files in the /.openttd dir ... same problem
15:35:05 <Maedhros> did you compile openttd yourself?
15:35:25 <Maedhros> chances are you don't have the sdl development headers and so you've ended up with a dedicated server
15:35:43 <waldo_> i do have the sdl dev libs
15:36:11 <waldo_> altough i build the previous version myself too .. on this pc
15:37:47 <Maedhros> well, try bin/openttd -d driver=9, and see what it says
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15:40:32 <waldo_> just installed another sdl package and so some dev packages with short names fly by ... so maybe i was missing some pkgs .. will rebuild .. gimme a minute
15:41:07 <Maedhros> you need the sdl headers, as well as the libs (they come in seperate packages)
15:45:53 <LA[lord]> dihedral, you still interested in that plane?
15:46:01 <dihedral> you got one working?
15:46:21 <LA[lord]> no, bu I asked if you're interested
15:47:05 <dihedral> i'll give you a more definate answer this evening, if that is ok with you
15:47:33 <LA[lord]> this evening means it's 17:46 here :D
15:47:34 <dihedral> that way i get a chance to talk to the others ^^
15:47:44 <dihedral> it's one hour earlier here
15:47:55 <dihedral> and i am back home at 1900
15:48:01 <dihedral> then a chat with the others
15:48:17 <dihedral> _then_ a chat with the others
15:48:31 <LA[lord]> is Friday I'll be up for long
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16:03:52 <LA[lord]> Is it possible to make a grf that changes a plane, but it has more sprites then the original plane... e-g if I wan't animation
16:04:36 <glx> yes, but that needs action 0, 1, 2 and 3
16:05:21 <LA[lord]> I know.. It should be a new plane then.. And four is just for naming... That's not a big problem..
16:05:22 <glx> because you need to redefine it completely
16:06:13 <LA[lord]> Action1 is logical that it needs to be :D, Action 2 and three.... I have to learn the specs for them..
16:07:30 <UnderBuilder> why I can't use the livery carriage as static
16:07:42 <UnderBuilder> it tells me that it is unsafe for static use
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16:10:51 <Maedhros> yes, but what tells you what is unsafe for static use?
16:10:55 <glx> because they are not simple replacement
16:11:16 <glx> they use at least action 2
16:11:59 <UnderBuilder> but that grf doesn't change specs
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16:12:47 <UnderBuilder> no, only graphics
16:13:36 <LA[lord]> glx: The animation is not done by Action2.. is it? I read the specs that action two defines graphics ID and there are num_loadtypes, num_loadingtypes and loadtypes... this is not what I was looking for.. Maybe a variational action2?
16:14:52 <glx> LA[lord]: yes, you want to select what to draw depending of plane state in game
16:15:16 <Maedhros> you would decide which sprites to show based on the animation counter, which you would test with a variational action 2
16:15:18 <glx> UnderBuilder: for you it's only graphics, but internally it's a lot more
16:15:50 <Maedhros> glx: if that grf is designed to replace the original graphics, it's not going to be a newgrf, is it?
16:16:07 <glx> it's the livery override extension
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16:16:34 <LA[lord]> the ultimate goal would be that when it flies, then there is a flag animating behind it.. so I found the place where it takes account for height ;)
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16:38:46 <LA[lord]> I found the things I needed, but now I lack knowledge what to do with them :(
16:39:52 <UnderBuilder> then if I can't use it as static, if I create a server, how the people will connect without the grf?
16:41:12 <Maedhros> they won't. same as any other newgrf...
16:43:09 <UnderBuilder> but it changes only graphics
16:48:11 <Belugas> that is your perception, UnderBuilder
16:48:30 <Belugas> [11:20] <+glx> UnderBuilder: for you it's only graphics, but internally it's a lot more
16:48:39 <Belugas> and glx told you so already
16:48:54 <UnderBuilder> but you only see the graphics change
16:49:13 <hylje> the internal part is what matters
16:55:27 <bumblebee> i probably have a very stupid question, im new to this game so please be nice :P on the winter mod there is a lot of paper mills that need wood, but there is no woods were i can transport it from, what is it i am missing?? i am sure there is a really obvious answer but i can`t see it :P
16:55:44 <hylje> bumblebee: forests need highland
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17:02:00 <Jortuny> is the openttd server browser down?
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17:05:03 <Belugas> it looks as if the main openttd.org is down, yes
17:05:12 <Maedhros> bumblebee: as far as i remember, forests can only be built above the snow-line
17:05:18 <Jortuny> oh I didn't even think to check there :D
17:05:36 <Maedhros> bumblebee: so if you don't have any hills that are high enough, you won't get any forests
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17:13:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r11813 /trunk/src/ (blitter/32bpp_anim.cpp gfx.cpp gfx_func.h screenshot.cpp): -Fix [FS#1602]: Switch _screen to the output buffer and disable usage of 32bpp-anim animation buffer during giant screenshots.
17:15:33 <Belugas_Gone> /msg nickserv recover Belugas quentin
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17:25:21 <dihedral> peter1138: got your nick back? ^^
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17:33:28 <Draakon> any Internet experts here?
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17:36:30 <peter__> what's an Internet expert?
17:36:50 <Forked> someone who knows all RFCs by heart?
17:37:16 <Prof_Frink> Oh no. We're Forked.
17:37:44 <Draakon> well i think its wrong place to tell my problem
17:38:01 <Forked> I didn't mean to be rude.. was just a suggestion :\
17:39:43 <Lego--> :) i think noone would introduce himself as an expert, since any expert knows that there are miriads of problems he might not know the exact solution to, and by pretending to be an expert before hearing the actual problem it is highly probable he will get embarassed afterwards, if he cant solve it; and anyone who isnt an expert anyway wont pretend to be one either, since he will get embarassed either way
17:39:46 <Draakon> its wrong place to for me to tell my problem
17:41:03 <Belugas> Draakon, best place for finding infos is actually google, wiki, yahoo whatever... in other words, searching
17:41:15 <Belugas> not bitching, just pointing out an issue
17:41:29 <Draakon> this place was just a click away :D
17:42:29 <Sacro> Belugas: you be pointing :p
17:44:49 <hylje> what typeless language has low-level pointers using unary *?
17:45:28 <Forked> now I'm curious as to what the problem is/was :\
17:46:01 <Draakon> i cant update trunk with SVN(aka in my computer)
17:46:13 <Draakon> says that this or that one exists already
17:49:30 <Belugas> it means that the patch you try to apply contains the creation of a file, and for some reasons, the given file is already on your folder(s)
17:50:35 <Draakon> i dont try to apply a patch
17:50:41 <glx> well it's more that a new file is svn already exists on your computer (probably because you applied a patch that is now in svn)
17:50:49 <Draakon> i am trying to update clean source code
17:50:59 <Belugas> a file of same name exists on your folder
17:51:09 <Belugas> svn update tries to create it
17:51:19 <Belugas> so, check the name fo the file,
17:51:24 <glx> source code may be clean, but the dir is not
17:52:05 <Draakon> how can i do updates with SVN then?
17:52:05 <glx> as svn revert doesn't remove files created by patches
17:52:15 <glx> remove the file and retry
17:52:32 <Draakon> that means src folder too
17:52:42 <Belugas> wherever it is required
17:52:45 <Draakon> as it failed on that part too
17:53:17 <glx> oh you are using svn up on a source tree from zip?
17:53:34 <UnderBuilder> typo in spanish translation: it says 'Vagon de blindado' when it should say 'Vagon blindado'
17:54:05 <UnderBuilder> and 'Furgon de Correos' sould be 'Furgon de Correo'
17:54:19 <glx> better svn co in another place :)
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18:08:08 <Draakon> i see a problem with No Industry Closing patch and ECS Vectors
18:08:09 <Belugas> Draakon, it's english prof Sacro mentionning that you said "glx: your right :P" while it should have been "glx: you're right :P"
18:08:49 <Draakon> More precisely Iron Ore Mines
18:08:59 <Draakon> Every Iron ore mine has a fixed ore body randomly predetermined during the construction phase at between 100Kt and 600Kt
18:09:19 <Draakon> what happens if that 100Kt has been transported and...
18:09:34 <Draakon> ...no industry closing patch is on?
18:09:54 <Draakon> should that Iron Ore Mine has 100Kt ore body?
18:10:10 <hylje> i believe that functionality works over patch settings
18:10:13 <hylje> being a different mechanic
18:10:44 <Draakon> so that iron ore mine will not close but will stop production?
18:10:52 <Belugas> and No Industry Closing is just not caring about anything but the author's immediate needs
18:11:15 <UnderBuilder> idea for the multi-climate map: you can select the climates separately, eg temperate only, temperate + snow, temperate + desert, temperate + toyland, or even temperate + snow + desert + toyland :D
18:12:07 <Draakon> Multi-Climate should not have toylan
18:13:30 <UnderBuilder> maybe a not so agressive toyland, removing all the annonying items
18:13:42 <Belugas> [13:15] <Draakon> so that iron ore mine will not close but will stop production? <-- the guy simply boost at maximum productions. He;s using brute force to keep insutries alive.
18:13:47 <Belugas> that will and does break grfs
18:15:47 <Belugas> the guy simply "boosts", "... to keep industries..."
18:16:00 <hylje> i read that more than one a time
18:16:21 <hylje> did you by chance change your thoughts mid-sentence?
18:16:25 *** Draakon_ has joined #openttd
18:16:53 <pavel1269-2> why doesn't anyone just disallow to industies go under their "minimal" production? :)
18:17:05 *** pavel1269-2 is now known as pavel1269
18:18:08 <LA[lord]> Where could I find (and Pavel don't say that *I* can't :P )the info about ttd-trains and their real life models..
18:18:18 <LA[lord]> wiki is crap at this
18:18:56 <LA[lord]> all entries in wiki say "Real-life Equivalent
18:18:58 <LA[lord]> The MJS250 resembles the American EMD SW600 switching engine. The EMD model was designed in 1954 however. "
18:19:00 <Mark20> hello, does somebody know if it is possible to install openttd with apt-get on ubuntu?
18:21:02 <LA[lord]> ok, pavel1269, you are allowed to say that I can't but then point me to the place where you can :D
18:21:45 <Draakon_> i cant eat in peace and internet plays me some jokes
18:22:04 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
18:22:31 <LA[lord]> so you have to laugh and are distracted from eating?
18:22:56 <Draakon_> but when i got here, i got disconnected
18:22:59 *** Draakon_ is now known as Draakon
18:23:15 <dih> howabout not eating infornt of your computer if you have problems with it ^^
18:23:35 <Draakon> i am not eating infront of my computer
18:23:50 <LA[lord]> but you are eating... you are replying...
18:24:02 <Draakon> i sayed i have finished my dinner!
18:25:10 <LA[lord]> nope.. only dih and Draakon are odd.. we down here are perfectly fine :D
18:25:49 <LA[lord]> who is my odd and what's he in too?
18:26:22 <Draakon> you don't read proppely
18:26:31 <LA[lord]> you don't write properly
18:26:50 <LA[lord]> it should've been 'you're odd too'
18:27:20 <Draakon> do you have to make a big number out of it?
18:27:41 <dih> you 2 - get yourselves a room
18:27:45 <LA[lord]> no..I mean, yes.. but then certainly not.. am.mm..
18:28:05 <LA[lord]> dih it isn't very difficult we both live in Estonia :D
18:28:30 <LA[lord]> and I'm just bored a little bit..
18:28:41 <LA[lord]> so no offence Draakon
18:28:51 <Draakon> btw do you guys know there are 3 types of english? they are: American, Australian and england english.
18:28:51 <dih> move to #dihedrals.bitches
18:29:29 <pavel1269> <LA[lord]> ok, pavel1269, you are allowed to say that I can't but then point me to the place where you can :D <--- you can't
18:29:30 <Draakon> and in one of those types your is written properly
18:29:42 <LA[lord]> And Scots have their own dialect
18:30:10 <dih> in all 3 your is your and you're is you are
18:30:31 <Draakon> if so then it belongs as subgroup in British English, LA
18:30:31 <LA[lord]> Your means 'sinu' like in sentece 'Sinu tee jahtub ära'
18:31:08 <Draakon> why why talk about this in here?
18:31:11 <LA[lord]> not 'sina oled tee jahtub ära' :D
18:31:23 <dih> well then texan is 'subgroup' of american english, and i dont think they'll like that ^^
18:31:24 *** peter__ has joined #openttd
18:31:26 <Draakon> we talk about OpenTTD here so lets talk about it
18:32:01 <Sacro> dih: no, proper english
18:32:23 <peter__> Oh, you require us to use proper English, do you?
18:32:35 <Draakon> stop talking about English, talk about OpenTTD
18:32:40 <Sacro> anything else is a bastardisation
18:32:54 <dih> Sacro: i said British english, because that is slightly more correct than england english ^^
18:33:00 <LA[lord]> Draakon, why didn't you join #dihedrals.bitches ?
18:33:09 <Draakon> because i dont want to
18:33:12 <LA[lord]> I did and I'm alone there now
18:33:16 *** peterbrett_ has joined #openttd
18:34:21 <LA[lord]> Sacro was once too...
18:35:12 <dih> i did not know sacro was my bitch ^^
18:35:40 <Sacro> i can be whatever you want me to be
18:35:52 <Draakon> well i am not your bitch either
18:36:29 <LA[lord]> <LA[lord]> @eightball are you Dihedral's bitch?
18:36:52 <dih> dihedral is written with a lowercase d
18:37:11 <Draakon> @eightball is LA[lord] dihedral's bitch?
18:37:20 <LA[lord]> <LA[lord]> @eightball am I dihedral's bitch?
18:37:33 <dih> LA, no need to post it all in here
18:37:41 <dih> just invite Draakon there ^^
18:37:58 <LA[lord]> <LA[lord]> @eightball is Draakon dihedral's bitch?
18:39:08 <LA[lord]> I asked if he be dih's bot and he said I know the answer beter than him
18:39:53 * dih wonders if he should publish the log of that channel ^^
18:39:54 <Draakon> dih programmed him to say that when asked that question :P
18:40:25 *** Rexxars has joined #openttd
18:40:41 <Draakon> dih: remember if you do you may get a invitation to court :P
18:40:51 <LA[lord]> gaah.. don't do dih.. I have some very.. personal materialthere
18:41:08 <dih> that would exactly be my reason...
18:41:25 <LA[lord]> ..why he wonders but not does..
18:42:23 <LA[lord]> dih you have the logs?
18:43:10 <LA[lord]> could you check them.. I don't want to post again..
18:43:17 <LA[lord]> pavel, I can't compile atm
18:43:49 <Draakon> pavel: what that patch does?
18:43:59 <LA[lord]> no closing industry I guess
18:44:07 <pavel1269> i didn't tested it, but i am sure, no industry will close down
18:44:28 <pavel1269> i hope no -production or something like that apear :)
18:44:36 <Draakon> there is a patch for it allready
18:44:47 *** Dark_Link^ has joined #openttd
18:45:17 <Digitalfox> Thank you peter :)
18:45:57 <pavel1269> what does that patch do?
18:46:23 <peter__> Nothing, er, major...
18:46:34 <Digitalfox> Multiple loading of vehicles set
18:46:36 <peter__> It's pretty rubbish, isn't it Digitalfox?
18:46:53 <Digitalfox> why do people need it anyway
18:46:57 <LA[lord]> hylje: I know of it :) Already read the news.. I bet that would've been some of you if here would be any geniuses but me...
18:47:04 <Digitalfox> i don't understand why you lose time with it peter
18:47:05 <Belugas> pavel1269, yours is not good enough either
18:47:17 <LA[lord]> UKRS and Db set together...
18:47:35 <Belugas> he's not waisting time at all ;)
18:48:03 <Digitalfox> Belugas: I guess you didn't feel my humor ;)
18:48:21 <Digitalfox> I was using sarcasm
18:48:42 <Draakon> that patch has the ability to run UKRS and DBset togheter?
18:48:48 <Digitalfox> It's a great patch and feels very stable
18:48:57 <Belugas> i just have this stuff in my mind "the most usefull patch ever"
18:49:07 <Draakon> does that patch do that?
18:49:15 <Digitalfox> It comes from peter, so its reliable has everyone should know
18:49:42 * Draakon gets the patch and starts compiling
18:49:53 <Draakon> btw, for what revision that patch is?
18:49:58 <Digitalfox> lol and madness begins..
18:50:13 <Belugas> it's written in the patch itself Draakon
18:50:34 <Belugas> and it wold surprises me if it was not head
18:50:42 <Draakon> Digitalfox: how come?
18:51:04 <Digitalfox> i can't acess it.. Maybe my ISP is enjoy taking my fun :(
18:51:32 <Draakon> somebody make a thread in the forums
18:51:40 <LA[lord]> anyway.. I repeat my question in hope that you guys missed it and not ignored :D 'Where could I find the info about ttd-trains and their real life models.. Wiki isn't good'
18:52:39 <LA[lord]> coz all trains have this:
18:52:40 <LA[lord]> Real-life Equivalent
18:52:42 <LA[lord]> The MJS250 resembles the American EMD SW600 switching engine. The EMD model was designed in 1954 however.
18:53:07 <Draakon> because there are no trains that are named after like that
18:53:19 <Draakon> and there are no same looking trains
18:53:26 <Draakon> out here in the world
18:53:29 <LA[lord]> AsiaStar is EuroStar
18:53:45 <LA[lord]> or vice versa the last one
18:54:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: orudge * r11814 /trunk/src/os2.cpp: -Fix: Get OpenTTD compiling again on OS/2
18:54:32 <LA[lord]> and I know there is a grf with right names floating around somewhere but I haven't found it yet
18:54:35 <Draakon> peter__: how do i use that patch? apply it to trunk, compile and apply UKRS and DBset in NewGRF window?
18:54:41 <Digitalfox> By the way LA[lord] What are you thinking on doing about the names, Chris Sawyer renamed the TGV in TT to T.I.M in TTD to protect him from trademarks, but now with open couln't the real names be used?
18:55:16 <orudge> just the one http:// :P
18:55:16 <LA[lord]> Digitalfox: I dunno...
18:55:19 <Draakon> Sacro: orudge is "The SiffMaster"
18:55:19 <peter__> Draakon, there's a patch setting to enable, "patch dynamic_engines 1" from the console before starting a game
18:55:29 <Sacro> orudge: does it come with the musics :p
18:55:34 <orudge> Sacro: no, not at present
18:55:38 <orudge> but you could haxxor it to play wav files
18:55:41 <peter__> (tilde to bring up the console)
18:55:41 <Digitalfox> oh peter you took all the fun of saying it didn't work
18:55:46 <orudge> the new music support will take a bit longer
18:55:49 <orudge> mainly due to GUI things
18:56:05 <Draakon> how do i get into console? as button next to 1 does not work?
18:56:08 <pavel1269> 19:47 <Belugas> pavel1269, yours is not good enough either <-- i know, but i dont break newgrfs :D
18:56:13 <Digitalfox> But maybe he doesn't know how to call the console
18:56:29 <Digitalfox> So maybe i can teach him where o_O
18:57:00 <LA[lord]> is it legal to use trademarks in trains' names? As df suggested? Anyone knows?
18:57:11 <Sacro> LA[lord]: heh, probably noy
18:57:26 <Draakon> i just have to hold that button
18:58:00 <glx> Draakon: you may need to press it twice (depends on keyboard layout)
18:58:18 <Draakon> dont care, main thing that patch works
18:58:42 <peter__> pavel1269 has a patch?
18:58:53 <Digitalfox> Draakon: You can also just enable it in openttd.cfg
18:59:08 <pavel1269> peter__: if you mean any, then yes :(
18:59:25 <Draakon> Digitalfox: what line in cfg?
19:00:03 <Digitalfox> Draakon: dynamic_engines = true
19:00:25 <Draakon> but does this patch work only with UKRS and DBset only?
19:00:43 <Digitalfox> no every vehicles set work
19:00:50 <Digitalfox> planeset with av8 etc..
19:01:42 <Draakon> but is it possible to use UKRS, DBset and US Train set tohgeter?
19:02:04 <Digitalfox> oh dude just try and if it doesn't work report it
19:02:09 <peter__> that enables the original engines
19:02:23 <Draakon> use with NewGRF trains?
19:03:01 * Draakon thinks that patch should be in trunk then
19:03:16 <LA[lord]> dih I started drawing that plane again... how big do you want it to be... And what capacity and speed.. Like something near-abotu what I could base the plane..
19:03:17 <Digitalfox> Well maybe because its in testing phase o_O
19:03:28 <dih> good job that Draakons thought on what should be in patch, has much influence ^^
19:04:20 <Draakon> sry, i don't understand what did you say. My english is not good yet :(
19:04:30 <pavel1269> i dont understand it either :)
19:04:52 <dih> * Draakon thinks that patch should be in trunk then
19:05:13 <Draakon> it indeed should be in trunk :D 100%
19:05:56 <Draakon> MingW compiles currently, cant test patch yet xD
19:06:34 <peter__> good job the supermarket is close
19:07:07 <Draakon> look at the time dude
19:07:37 <Digitalfox> Let's help peter by finding online shops that will deliver at his house in 1 hour :)
19:07:45 <keyweed> shop's here still open for another hour.
19:08:21 <Draakon> Google tour bus is our friend
19:08:33 <Belugas> and another 5 hours in here ^_^
19:09:02 <Digitalfox> Here in Portugal supermarkets close at 9PM
19:09:17 <keyweed> here in the netherlands too.
19:09:53 <Digitalfox> The UE made this happen.. They closed at 11PM, but here comes the comission of this and that and all should start closing at 9PM :(
19:10:03 <Sacro> local stores close at 11 or 00
19:10:15 <keyweed> i want a 24 hour economy to. :(
19:11:29 <dih> and then ask for a job ^^
19:11:31 <Belugas> keyweed,you have one in otttd ^_^
19:11:54 <dih> transport tycoon tremendous deluxe ?
19:12:04 <keyweed> true. 24 train and bus service. it's utopia.
19:12:12 <Digitalfox> Besides free traveling between country's on the EURO zone i don't know what good does it do for Portugal.. 70% of our laws are already modified to comply to rules by the EU
19:12:52 <keyweed> i travel alot. i don't object to all the EU has done.
19:12:58 <Digitalfox> It seems we are always complying to new EU law's every day..
19:13:23 <Digitalfox> When most of that laws didn't any portuguese to vote at least
19:14:09 <keyweed> i currently have more problems with our dutch government then with the EU. sorry.
19:14:57 <keyweed> it appears we're getting a ban a month. this month they're trying to ban fireworks on new years eve.
19:15:12 <LA[lord]> DigitalFox: Is Portugal part of Schengen?
19:15:48 <Draakon> lets test the new patch
19:15:55 <LA[lord]> so you could travel to Estonia w/o passport control?
19:16:22 <Draakon> have you read the news?
19:16:43 <LA[lord]> And I know the prtugese are
19:17:10 <LA[lord]> so nothing like free travel in Euro zone... it's in Schengen zone
19:17:11 <Draakon> all countries that belong to EU Union belong to Senchein
19:17:36 <Draakon> but theres a problem with Schengen still
19:17:39 <LA[lord]> some asked for delaying
19:18:05 <Draakon> after a certain time or something you need to show a passport still
19:18:16 <Draakon> at last so i understand from news
19:18:25 <valhalla1w> you need to be able to identify yourself in other countries
19:18:42 <valhalla1w> there are just no border checks
19:19:19 <keyweed> in the netherlands you are required to be able to identify yourself whenever asked.
19:19:32 * Sacro isn't in a Schengen country
19:19:35 <keyweed> they can ask on the border if they want to. they usually don't though.
19:19:56 <Draakon> that means that Netherlands isnt in Schengen
19:20:29 <valhalla1w> Draakon: erm, not exactly
19:20:31 *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
19:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> <keyweed> in the netherlands you are required to be able to identify yourself whenever asked. <- that is not part of the schengen treaty
19:20:48 <valhallasw> the schengen treaty does not define wether you need to be able to identify yourself
19:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> you need some kind of personal identification, schengen just says it doesn't need to be a passport
19:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> and you don't need a travelling visum
19:21:17 <keyweed> Eddi|zuHause3: no. just dutch law.
19:21:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> keyweed: that is probably similar in all EU states
19:21:45 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause3: does schengen explicitly say it doesn't need to be a passport?
19:22:02 <keyweed> if i fail to produce a valid id when the police asks i get a fine.
19:22:03 <Draakon> Digitalfox: how did you were able to make so that DBSet Pax trains cant carry UKRS grain hoopers?
19:22:20 <Draakon> valhallasw: you still need it but wont be asked for it
19:22:21 <LA[lord]> we in case can do it with ID'card for example
19:22:25 <keyweed> but since the chance some thug steels my id then the police asking for it, i usually don't cary it.
19:22:27 <LA[lord]> no need to passports
19:22:29 <Digitalfox> I don' what Schengen is
19:22:50 <Digitalfox> LA[lord]: That i haven't test it, too many things to test at just one or 2 days
19:22:51 <keyweed> we have id cards too. but i need a passport and i'm not going to pay for two ids.
19:23:03 <valhallasw> then get your drivers license
19:23:14 <keyweed> i don't have or want one.
19:23:32 <keyweed> public transport gets me to work and wherever i need.
19:23:41 <LA[lord]> keyweed: but we DON'T need passports anymore
19:23:58 <keyweed> if i want to go to australia i do.
19:23:59 <valhallasw> you need to be able to identify yourself in a foreign country
19:24:12 <Draakon> we do need passport still in Schengen
19:24:19 <valhallasw> schengen just removes the need for visa
19:24:21 <LA[lord]> Australia yes.. I was refering to inter-euro travel
19:24:22 <Draakon> but one thing i dont undestand
19:24:53 <valhallasw> LA[lord]: if I travel from the Netherlands to Germany, I need to carry either an EU ID card or a passport
19:24:54 <LA[lord]> valhallasw: The eu countries didnt' need visa anyhow
19:25:03 <Draakon> if i for example 12 years old, can i still travel freely in Schengen as adults too?
19:25:29 <keyweed> you can travel freely. there are no border checkpoints anymore.
19:25:33 <LA[lord]> valhallasw: YOU need to carry passport I guess ...
19:25:45 <valhallasw> LA[lord]: so do you
19:25:46 <LA[lord]> It's just maybe allowed to minors
19:25:56 <keyweed> but if you mispark your car in amsterdam and you can't produce a valid id, you're fined extra :)
19:26:58 <LA[lord]> valhallasw: we didn't need passports even before Schengen to travel in *most* eu countries.. ID-Card was enough but passport was good too
19:27:08 <valhallasw> LA[lord]: EU ID-card, yes
19:27:28 <valhallasw> but it remains you will need either an EU ID card or a passport to travel to another schengen country
19:27:48 <LA[lord]> I don't call it that way.. besides 95% of Estonians have ID-card
19:28:04 <LA[lord]> .. and I'm among the 5 percent
19:28:08 <Belugas> now i know what you're blablatting about
19:28:51 *** [1]Mark has joined #openttd
19:29:12 <keyweed> i need to be able to go out of europe, i need a passport thingy, not an european id.
19:29:54 <LA[lord]> keyweed: that's your bad...
19:30:50 *** bumblebee has joined #openttd
19:31:11 <peter__> You may now celebrate, for I have returned!
19:31:11 <LA[lord]> and I think we totally forgot that some people aren't in EU (like some *canadians* )so let's remind Draakons suggestion and talk about OpenTransportTycoonTremendousD
19:31:30 *** TommyGun has joined #openttd
19:31:43 <LA[lord]> Peeter Paan has returned..
19:31:50 <Draakon> did someone called me?
19:32:00 <Draakon> i was busy applying multiple sets
19:32:18 * Belugas would like to know peter__'s trick to make it so fast.
19:32:44 <peter__> Yes, I went on my own :)
19:32:54 * LA[lord] is laughing at Draakon...And mentioned his name the second time intentionally
19:33:10 <peter__> Also the supermarket is 3 minutes walk away...
19:33:21 <Belugas> " (like some *canadians* )" <--- there are in here???
19:33:22 <TommyGun> I have a question, maybe that someone knows more 'bout it. Well i run a server myself (quad machine, 4 p3 xeon processors) but openttd only uses 1 cpu and that one is around 90% load all the time which occurs lag. any tips for that?
19:33:41 <Belugas> close to job, close to supermarket.. nice place you've got :)
19:33:51 <peter__> Yes, openttd only ever uses 1 CPU
19:33:56 <LA[lord]> Belugas: Not that I know about...
19:34:03 <TommyGun> hm cause i run a quiet big map with a lot of trains
19:34:22 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
19:34:23 <LA[lord]> 2048 is always a bad chice for mp
19:34:33 <TommyGun> didnt had any probs with 1024
19:34:40 <peter__> And there are no plans to make it multi-threaded.
19:34:44 *** [1]Mark is now known as Mark
19:35:47 <Belugas> it's not profitable enough
19:35:48 * Draakon plays with all train, truck&bus, plane and ship sets now :)
19:35:49 <TommyGun> everyone has a core 2 duo nowadays or whatsoever
19:36:03 <Belugas> it has been discussed many many many times
19:36:13 <TommyGun> maybe that says enough Belugas
19:36:24 <valhallasw> it's fairly hard to implement for the gain it will yield
19:36:32 <Belugas> plus, the synchornizxation of data would be so nightmarish that all benefits woukld be lost
19:36:43 <TommyGun> hm depends on how its done
19:36:44 <peter__> There's no objection to multi-threading per s,
19:36:47 <Draakon> i dont have core 2 duo
19:37:08 <valhallasw> the problem is keeping multiple clients in sync when multi-threading
19:37:11 <peter__> but on the technical side it just wouldn't work.
19:37:18 <Belugas> TommyGun, if it has to be done, it wold require nothing less than a total rewrite of the applicaiton
19:37:29 <TommyGun> i dont see the prob tbh
19:37:39 <Belugas> wel... dig the sources :)
19:37:43 <valhallasw> the problem of doing a full rewrite?
19:37:47 <Belugas> and make your best shit ^^
19:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Digitalfox> I don' what Schengen is <- Schengen is a village in Luxemburg, near the river Mosel, on a boat on the river, the first Schengen treaty was signed by 5 countries (i assume germany, france and the benelux states), to ease border traffic, and in the long term remove inner border controls and instead increase controls at the outer borders
19:38:09 <peter__> It's not like there's a compiler flag to enable multi-threading... :(
19:38:43 <valhallasw> multi-threading is an headache
19:38:53 <TommyGun> but i think its worth it in the end
19:38:57 <pavel1269> question ... you have just removed SET_EXPENSES_TYPE? no replace with something?
19:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> meanwhile, the treaty covers 24 countries
19:39:06 <valhallasw> well, then code it.
19:39:12 <valhallasw> simple building a multi-threaded http library in python cost me two days
19:39:33 <valhallasw> (that is: extending httplib2 to have threading and shared connections)
19:39:39 <pavel1269> no, general question :)
19:39:51 <valhallasw> it's only 522 lines
19:40:13 <Draakon> Peter or Digitalfox here?
19:40:29 <Belugas> TommyGun, no one disputes it. It's just not worth the effort. A total rewrite is not an understatemet, and as been said, it willnot benefits everyone
19:40:44 <valhallasw> and those two days were not spent coding but drawing on a piece of paper to find out how to do proper locking
19:40:51 <TommyGun> well ok ur the bosses ;)
19:41:19 <valhallasw> it has nothing to do with who is the 'boss' or not, but rather that no-one who has the knowledge to do it thinks it's worth doing
19:42:23 <peter__> Draakon, at your service
19:42:45 <blathijs> valhallasw: So, those who can do things are the boss :-)
19:42:50 <Digitalfox> Draakon: peter is one who wrote the patch i'm just a user of it like you..
19:43:09 <Draakon> peter: nvm i just i thought i found a bug with your patch but it was a bug in my Load order
19:43:12 <blathijs> valhallasw: Open Source projects are usually a Technocracy :-)
19:43:34 <valhallasw> it doesn't work for everything
19:43:36 <Digitalfox> Draakon: Pretty cool isn't it?
19:43:53 <Digitalfox> thnaks for the explanation Eddi|zuHause3 :)
19:43:55 <LA[lord]> gaah.. you guys are boring.. :D I'll better do something else.. Bye
19:43:56 <valhallasw> I mean, open source gui's are just... not suited for 'normal people' ;)
19:44:03 <Draakon> Digitalfox: yup except conflicting sets
19:44:05 <valhallasw> er, s/gui/windowmanager
19:44:09 <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause3: I do remember hearing something about that on TV
19:44:32 <Digitalfox> Draakon: Like what?
19:44:52 <Draakon> Digitalfox: Long Vehicles with Hovkus Bus and Serbian set
19:45:07 <Draakon> and DBSet with ECS Vehicles Alpah 1
19:45:20 <Digitalfox> Draakon: Didn't test that part, but don't they all show up?
19:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> Digitalfox: signing the schengen treaty is a requirement to join the EU meanwhile, only UK and Ireland have signed a limited subset of the treaty
19:45:50 <Draakon> Digitalfox: those mentioned sets conflict so they all are disabled
19:46:15 <peter__> Ah, nothing much to be done about that
19:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> also, some non-eu states joined the treaty (iceland, norway) because of previous treaties with their neighbour states, soon switzerland joins the treaty also
19:46:46 <peter__> If sets all used GRM there'd be no problem, but a lot of this stuff was made before that was invented...
19:48:28 <Draakon> peter: but how did you manage to do so that DBset coal hopper wont work with UKRS pax train? like you try to apply a grain hopper to a Pax Train if you only use one set
19:49:01 <peter__> That's probably luck, to be honest
19:49:16 <peter__> The callback that controls that is a bit flawed.
19:49:19 <Draakon> peter: heh nice work anyway
19:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> Draakon: afaik the DBSet engines check if the cargo of the attached wagons is "passenger"
19:49:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> else they reject the wagons
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19:50:48 <peter__> Technically it's the wagon that checks, that's the flaw.
19:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's not what i read out of the dbset_ecs readme
19:52:16 <peter__> It's the engine that checks...
19:52:47 <peter__> The wagon is passed as the vehicle object to check, but it's the engine's varaction chain that's tested.
19:53:03 <peter__> So yes, if the set is sensible and checks with cargo type and the like, it'll work fine.
19:53:14 <peter__> If it tests against specific engine IDs it may or may not work properly.
19:53:45 <peter__> I just need to fix the GRF specified engine list sorting.
19:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i am not sure how it checks for engines that specifically require "long distance coaches"
19:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> btw. if you give each grf a unique "namespace", how do you check that for sets that are designed to override vehicles of a different set (like the dbxl_ecs.grf?)
19:56:04 <peter__> By adding a feature to allow sets to override another set.
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19:57:35 <pavel1269> how can i "consistent" line ending style? :/
19:57:52 <Draakon> peter: you should post a thread in the forums about your patch
19:58:09 <hylje> pavel1269: i think one should use UNIX line breaks (e.g. \n)
19:58:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> pavel1269: svn will set the correct line endings on checkout
19:58:52 <pavel1269> i applied patch something was wrong i copied right lines to right place and ... :(
19:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> (as long as the property svn:eol-style=native is set)
19:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> also, there are programs "dos2unix" and "unix2dos" which convert line endings
20:00:02 <dih> Draakon: i am not quite sure if peter__ has to add his patches to the forums before he can submit them to trunk ^^
20:00:17 <Draakon> oh he can commit it to trunk? nice
20:00:33 <dih> you have never seen the svn log have you?
20:00:50 <dih> never payed attention to the 'author' information there?
20:01:01 <dih> or perhaps messaves from CIA-1
20:01:25 <pavel1269> i got it :P notepad .... then i deleted the "correct" ending and in MSVS added there that ... box :)
20:05:37 <peter__> # us ... ... ... ... and them ... ... ... ... and after all we're only ordinary men
20:06:15 <peter__> # me ... and you ... god only knows, it's not what we would choose to do
20:07:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> now you are gettin freaky...
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20:09:54 <Draakon> using that multiple sets patch, prices have sky rocketed, why?
20:09:54 <Gonozal_VIII> you all missed me, right?
20:10:09 <Gonozal_VIII> basecosts modified
20:10:12 <peter__> Because the prices are still set by the last set that is loaded.
20:10:33 <peter__> I might consider making the base prices be per-GRF, some how...
20:11:05 <pavel1269> DOS2UNIX etc don't work ... :/
20:11:12 <pavel1269> MSVS can't do that?
20:11:12 <peter__> 's sound card sucks :(
20:11:31 <Draakon> so this means if i have LV loaded last it has higher prices than a train set that has lower prices?
20:11:53 <Gonozal_VIII> only road vehicles
20:12:20 <Draakon> still then, US train set prices have sky rocketed
20:12:33 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe you have a train set that does that too
20:13:00 <Draakon> lemme recheck my findings
20:13:33 * Eddi|zuHause3 waits how long Draakon takes to notice that he has to pay a fee for each "hmm" line ;)
20:14:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, you do, peter__ reserved that word years ago
20:14:23 <dih> why do you think people log this channel?
20:14:38 <Draakon> i confirm my findings
20:14:58 <Draakon> 1. I have only US train set loaded in non patched game
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20:15:13 <Draakon> 2. E8 price is about 21k dollars
20:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> satic grfs may never change anything like prices
20:15:36 <peter__> I'd be a millionaire!
20:15:39 <Draakon> 3. E8 in patched one has about 100k or more price
20:15:56 <Draakon> hmmm isnt copyrighted line!
20:16:07 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm really eddi? if i put 4lv to static it doesn't change the rv basecosts?
20:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: any grf that does that may not be loaded as static
20:16:48 <Draakon> i have all sets loaded through GRF options window
20:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> dih: that is a quantum state
20:18:42 <Draakon> i bought H8 Allegheny and USTrain set boxecars with refitted to sand but they are not like that anymore
20:19:21 <Draakon> instead cars have UKRS and TTD car designs
20:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> my networks would look so much more beautiful with PBS :(
20:20:12 <dih> peter__: someone's calling for you ^^
20:21:06 <peter__> Where does sand come from?
20:21:34 <Draakon> that bug only occured with that train only
20:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> and my RMB did not magically fix itself over... day :(
20:22:07 <Draakon> now i use a different one and nothing i explain happened
20:22:35 <Draakon> well if i found it again, where should i post error report? with screens offcourse
20:23:23 <Draakon> i think i have too many sets loaded :D
20:23:34 <Gonozal_VIII> there's never too many
20:23:51 <peter__> so some other GRF is changing the base price. no problme.
20:24:04 <Draakon> for me it is above 100k
20:24:27 <peter__> then some other set is changing the cost
20:24:27 <Draakon> its maybe because i have too many sets loaded?
20:24:42 <Draakon> US train set is last btw
20:25:07 <peter__> some other set has changed the base price
20:26:05 <Draakon> i am reducing sets in my order
20:26:31 <peter__> it's not a bug, it's just the way that bit was designed...
20:26:57 <Gonozal_VIII> afaik the patch should be able to load 256 sets at the same time... and spritelimit in openttd is also huge now
20:27:01 <Draakon> new vehicles list is too big anyway for current load order
20:27:10 <peter__> Gonozal_VIII, only 256?
20:27:23 <peter__> hehe, it does that :)
20:27:25 <Gonozal_VIII> i think i read about 256 slots
20:27:44 <peter__> there are 256 default engines, and a maximum of 65535 engines
20:27:52 <peter__> not all sets define every engine though
20:28:07 <Draakon> aa prices are now normal
20:28:11 <Gonozal_VIII> would be 256 full sets...
20:28:32 <peter__> or 500 train sets, heh
20:28:41 <peter__> or, infact, just one set
20:28:56 <peter__> as with the patch a single set can define 65535 engines...
20:29:08 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know how that patch works...
20:29:10 <peter__> hmm, there's probably a bug there :D
20:29:18 <Draakon> if we have 500 train sets on, each atlast 10 trains a memory eater is made
20:29:47 <Gonozal_VIII> memory? no i don't think so
20:29:50 <peter__> someone will want to run it with a 32768x32768 map, no doubt...
20:29:53 <Draakon> not that there are 500 train sets
20:30:23 <peter__> Gonozal_VIII, 65535 engines will use about 170MB just for the basic data
20:30:35 <pavel1269> 32K .... 2K is quite far :D
20:30:58 <dih> i dont want to see the computer you need to handle 65k trains (running that is)
20:31:21 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have to use every engine
20:31:30 <dih> i dont think you would be able to lift it Draakon
20:31:36 <Gonozal_VIII> or at least not every engine at the same time
20:31:49 <peter__> i think the main advantage to this will not be using multiple sets but will allow grf authors to make extended sets starting earlier and going on later
20:31:50 <Draakon> dih: who sayed it must be heavy?
20:32:00 <Draakon> it can be the size of a A4 paper
20:32:04 <peter__> i think there are 10 ship slots by default
20:32:10 <Gonozal_VIII> huge number of different vehicles + very high daylength factor = teh fun
20:32:22 <Draakon> Aliens have that kind of technology perhaps
20:32:41 <peter__> now you can have 65,000 ships, hehe
20:33:16 <pavel1269> yapf for ships sux really hard
20:33:28 <Draakon> it is a memory eater for ships
20:33:29 <Gonozal_VIII> not when they can only use canals
20:33:56 <Gonozal_VIII> (with water canals as shipping line markers)
20:34:44 <Draakon> after this patch gets into trunk, i wonder what guys at TTDP do?
20:35:48 <DaleStan> Which patch? And why wonder?
20:36:05 <Draakon> that patch that peter is writting/wrote
20:36:33 <pavel1269> Draakon: they will write similar patch ;)
20:36:49 <Belugas> pavel1269, i doubt that.
20:37:11 <Belugas> not that they cannot, mind you
20:39:10 <Belugas> and Draakon, there is no race of features between the two programs, by the way.
20:39:19 <Belugas> not that i'm aware of, anyway
20:39:45 <dih> trying to debug what i believe to be an endianness issue
20:39:54 <dih> would someone mind helping?
20:39:57 <Belugas> Draakon: well.. my opinion? they will keep on doing what they do :)
20:40:14 <dih> issueing company_pw on windows and on mac returns different strings to the server
20:40:35 <dih> _someone_ mind helping ^^
20:41:35 <dih> i checkt the game seed on the client and server, and the server unique id
20:41:49 <dih> the string the mac generates and arrives at the server is the same too
20:42:30 <dih> so i am not quite sure what to check next
20:44:03 <pavel1269> i still cant "consist" ending line style :'(
20:45:21 <Draakon> sand pits are no good MM now
20:46:19 <Gonozal_VIII> sand pits are ok
20:46:27 <Draakon> or else i go bankrupt before i can do something
20:46:35 <Gonozal_VIII> sand doesn't bring much money but they produce a lot
20:46:40 <Draakon> Gonozal: not in newest ECS
20:46:57 <Draakon> as they dont produce a lot now too
20:47:08 <Gonozal_VIII> you can still make glass out of it
20:48:17 <Gonozal_VIII> then transport the glass with planes or helicopters... got your money
20:49:39 <Draakon> no current airplane avabile for that
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20:50:09 <Gonozal_VIII> i think av8 has that
20:50:13 <dih> heh - anybody with a core2duo mac?
20:50:29 <Draakon> year is 1921 and only 2 airplanes are avabile
20:50:39 <Draakon> none of them can transport glass
20:50:49 <peter__> hmm, maybe i should download ECS... what's needed? heh
20:51:08 <Draakon> here you can get them
20:51:45 <peter__> hmm, mix 'n' match them all or what?
20:51:47 <Draakon> just download and follow the GRFID list above of the menu to see the correct order
20:52:08 <Draakon> but more fun and more better if mixed
20:54:46 <Draakon> you want grfs not rars?
20:55:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: depends...
20:55:34 <peter__> done now, i just dislike rar
20:55:44 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: i have x as exclude
20:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> e ignores directories
20:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> x includes directories
20:56:05 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
20:56:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: -x is exclude
20:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> e Extract files to current directory
20:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> x Extract files with full path
20:57:50 <Draakon> peter: what made you to download ECS? :P
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21:00:10 <peter__> <Draakon> i bought H8 Allegheny and USTrain set boxecars with refitted to sand but they are not like that anymore
21:00:18 <peter__> though it works for me
21:00:39 <Draakon> well i had a lot of other sets loaded too
21:01:16 <peter__> probably used the wrong box car then? heh
21:01:56 <Draakon> i bought US set train and a USTrain Set Boxcar
21:03:35 <peter__> i have 5 boxcars and 3 box cars
21:05:12 <Gonozal_VIII> boxcars for sand?
21:06:22 <Draakon> peter: what sets are you using?
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21:07:39 <LA[lord]> any dih's presence noticed?
21:08:18 <dih> you were not supposed to tell
21:08:28 <Draakon> di you tell that before? NO!
21:08:47 <LA[lord]> so... dih. have you made your mind?
21:08:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> you were supposed to know
21:09:01 <glx> dih: what did you do so far to trace the company_pw thing?
21:09:03 <dih> have not seen any of the other yet
21:09:17 * Draakon kills Eddi|zuHause3 with M4
21:09:31 <LA[lord]> Draakon, how can you be so violent?
21:09:45 <LA[lord]> you always nuke or kill smb
21:09:48 <dih> glx: i have outputted on the mac the hashed code, and on the server
21:09:58 * Eddi|zuHause3 drives Draakon over with a BR 01
21:10:10 <dih> i have then set the password from a ppc mac client, and a windows client and a intel mac client
21:10:22 <LA[lord]> Draakon: seems that you too
21:10:35 * dih ties Draakon to the rotors of a helicoptor and turnes on the engine
21:11:01 <Draakon> rope broke before you turned engine on
21:11:04 <LA[lord]> no, I don't see you.. you are turning too fast
21:11:31 <LA[lord]> Draakon: I meant that it seems that you missed Eddi|zuHause3 too..
21:11:52 <dih> glx: i also outputted game seed and servers uniqu id on the client side
21:12:08 <LA[lord]> "rope broke before you turned engine on" -> only conclusion -> Draakon weighs *alot*
21:12:16 <Draakon> ah nvm about that, we dont talk this kind of talk here
21:12:57 <LA[lord]> ladies and gentleman
21:13:06 <dih> glx: on the client i am in src/network/network_client.cpp
21:13:14 <LA[lord]> (like here would be any ladies...)
21:13:18 <dih> i just dont know what else it could be
21:14:04 * glx really need to find a linux ppc that can be installed in pearpc
21:15:01 <dih> Draakon: lets play a game
21:15:33 <dih> how about: you win if you manage to be a little more quite for the next 10 mins while dih tries to sort out the endianness issue with company_pw
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21:17:00 <dih> glx: do you have any forther ideas?
21:17:26 <dih> hashing is done bu using server unique id and game seed
21:17:44 <dih> they both seem fine though
21:17:45 <glx> no idea, but if I can install debian in pearpc I can have fun tracing thid bug :)
21:18:32 <dih> how would you 'trace' it?
21:18:40 <UnderBuilder> there is a blank trg1r.grf for those who doesn't have the data files but the other grfs and the sample.cat are still without blank versions
21:19:27 <glx> before sending, after receiving
21:19:31 <dih> i have done the hashed password on both ends, compared the unique id and game seed on both ends
21:20:12 <glx> and the hash are ok locally?
21:20:26 <dih> the hash is the same on client as on server
21:20:44 <glx> so the problem is the transmission
21:21:05 <dih> because then there would be a difference between client and server
21:21:13 <dih> but they are both the same
21:21:26 <dih> so the issue is either in the salting or the salt
21:21:37 <glx> and typing the same password on both end gives the same hash?
21:21:55 <dih> you dont hash the pass on the server
21:22:04 <dih> you hash on client and send hash to server
21:22:22 <dih> this was 'test' from an intel mac 4c7343bd509e9fca13b5b340cba2db76
21:22:36 <dih> this was test from a ppc mac: c00e53872b576ddef501a7a2e47f9f3c
21:22:51 <glx> so the hashing is the problem
21:23:04 <peter__> where is this code? heh
21:23:40 <dih> GenerateCompanyPasswordHash
21:23:49 <peter__> hmm, this is all new isn't it...
21:24:08 <dih> for (uint i = 0; i < NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH; i++) salted_password[i] ^
21:24:08 <dih> = _password_server_unique_id[i] ^ (_password_game_seed >> i);
21:24:29 <glx> did you compare salted_password?
21:25:33 <dih> salted_password with hashed_password
21:26:05 <Draakon> who is going to hack a OpenTTD server anyway to know a company password that is best there?
21:26:16 <glx> salted_password on both clients
21:27:01 <dih> because the server will not have salted_password
21:27:54 <dih> congratulations Draakon ^^
21:27:57 <glx> yes ppc and intel clients, salted password should be the same for a given password
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21:28:12 <dih> you were quite for 10 mins ^^
21:29:04 <dih> glx: i can give you results in about 15 mins
21:36:56 <Draakon> gah! im am not making profits :D
21:39:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:41:03 <Draakon> what happens if No closing of Industry patch is on, production is zero and i start taking raw there?
21:43:47 <Draakon> instead of taking raws, wait till industry refits himself :P
21:45:54 <Draakon> and then instantly decreasing too
21:46:13 <Draakon> the magic of patches :D
21:48:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
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21:59:21 <peter__> bah, crashed my phone :o
21:59:40 <Gonozal_VIII> :S a phone can crash?
21:59:53 <Rubidium> even 5 year old ones can
22:00:09 <Gonozal_VIII> i've never seen one doing that
22:00:34 <Rubidium> well... a spontanious reboot is IMO a kind of crash too
22:01:17 <Gonozal_VIII> no "reboots" either
22:02:14 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: I recall you saying something out about heating up trains with steam from the locomotive even though you had no idea that the railroads used to do that... well
22:02:36 <SmatZ> my phone locks up really often, several times a day
22:03:16 <Gonozal_VIII> that's a lot of funny thingies..
22:04:04 <Bjarni> it's semi automatic... it's supposed to maintain the right pressure and water level on it's own
22:04:35 <Bjarni> but if it worked 100% as intended then the safety valve would never open... and it did ;)
22:05:20 <Bjarni> it also managed to close it again before I got close :|
22:06:00 <Bjarni> naturally I was in the rear and of the train when it happened so I had to zoom. The picture ended up being ok anyway
22:06:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> afaik even the early electric engines in germany pre WW I had capability for electric heating
22:06:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> of course they needed matching wagons
22:06:56 <Bjarni> this system is designed to share the wagons with steam locomotives
22:07:47 <Bjarni> so electric heating is out of the question as steam locomotives can only supply enough power for headlights and stuff
22:08:18 <Bjarni> also all the cars are pre WW1 ;)
22:08:37 <Gonozal_VIII> that women (or is it a man?) at the end of the platform is so shocked that (s)he has an exclamation mark above her(his) head
22:10:05 <Bjarni> and she is getting something inside her bag
22:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: you played too much the sims or something :p
22:11:19 <Gonozal_VIII> that appeared there because she's shocked!
22:11:41 <Gonozal_VIII> people do that all the time
22:11:43 <Bjarni> she doesn't look like that when I zoom in on her
22:12:11 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: you dipshit
22:12:49 <Bjarni> now you made me zoom in on a random woman who happened to be in a picture I took in a public place
22:13:35 <Gonozal_VIII> am i supposed to understand that?^^
22:14:31 <SmatZ> "exclamation mark above her(his) head"
22:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> "Ab April 1913 erfolgt die Lieferung der 5 bayerischen 1'C1'-Lokomotiven der Baureihe EP 3/5, spätere EP 1, Reichsbahnbaureihe E 62. Es waren die ersten deutschen Elektrolokomotiven mit elektrischer Zugheizung."
22:15:22 <Bjarni> 1913... that's like a decade newer than these wagons
22:15:25 <Gonozal_VIII> sure, you can see it through the smog
22:16:32 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> sure, you can see it through the smog <-- it's not smog... it's fog... it's not uncommon in that area
22:16:45 <Bjarni> though it was a generally foggy day
22:17:11 <Gonozal_VIII> much cooler word
22:17:37 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't have to be right as long as it's cool
22:17:37 <Bjarni> smog is generated by pollution. Fog is a natural thing that's pretty common in wet areas like the one in question
22:17:49 <dih> glx: hashed password is really different on both clients
22:18:03 <dih> salted password is a bit of troubble getting outputted ^^
22:18:16 <dih> i guess i need %x (does that to hex?)
22:18:29 <dih> i was putting it through DEBUG()
22:18:46 <peter__> salted is normal text
22:19:08 <peter__> well starts offa nyway ;)
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22:19:30 <glx> you can loop to print each char in hex
22:19:31 <dih> DEBUG(net, 1, "[udp] %s", salted_password);
22:20:34 <Gonozal_VIII> i used to do better jokes... but i'm quite exhausted... been doing uni stuff for more than 12h without a pause
22:21:10 <dih> i mean - output a char in hex
22:22:07 <glx> for (uint i = 0; i < NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH; i++) printf("%02x", salted_password[i]);
22:22:22 <glx> followed by printf("\n");
22:22:49 <dih> i used sizeof(salted_password)
22:24:14 <glx> use lengthof() as it is an array
22:24:30 <glx> but using the const is ok too
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22:26:08 <Arbitrary> what's wrong with putchar('\n'); :( - kids with their grand and fancy passing arbitrary strings to formatter functions these days
22:27:26 <Mark20> is it possible to install openttd with apt-get on ubuntu?
22:28:33 <Rubidium> Mark20: when they take packages from Debians 'SID', then you can
22:28:54 <Mark20> Rubidium: probably not
22:30:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11815 /trunk/src/signal.cpp: -Codechange (r11802): some compilers were giving a false warning about uninitialized variable
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22:30:30 <dih> salted_password is the same but for the last hex
22:30:47 <dih> but i shalll try it in a nother map ^^
22:30:59 <Rubidium> is the input also the same? and the salt?
22:31:17 <dih> the mac had salted_password of 44ffffffd3ffffffd472012dffffffbe74ffffffc0ffffffb30952ffffffaa2bffffff9e30ffffffcdffffffb058017bffffffbcffffffffffffff86ffffff944b0a273e323a3000
22:31:22 <dih> the amd had 44ffffffd3ffffffd472012dffffffbe74ffffffc0ffffffb30952ffffffaa2bffffff9e30ffffffcdffffffb058017bffffffbcffffffffffffff86ffffff944b0a273e323a3007
22:31:49 <glx> hmm do the same for password
22:31:57 <SmatZ> MD5 not working right? or is the last byte the salt?
22:32:26 <glx> I think md5 works as intended
22:32:54 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: looks like AMD is an agent... maybe they are a part of echelon and is designed to spy on us
22:33:02 <Bjarni> we never know what's in the firmware
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22:33:27 <Gonozal_VIII> little red monkey!
22:33:36 <Bjarni> hidden so well that not even the hardware developers connecting to it will notice
22:34:10 <peter__> One day, Bjarni will say something sensible.
22:34:35 <dih> this run they were similar again up to the last 3000 and amd = 3027
22:34:38 <Bjarni> peter__: everything depends on the eye of the beholder
22:36:00 <SmatZ> dih: NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH == 33, but you have written something 144 chars long, meaning 72 bytes
22:36:04 <dih> Bjarni: eye of the 'beerholder'
22:36:12 <SmatZ> but it is very likely I am wrong
22:36:37 <dih> i did sizeof(salted_password)
22:37:00 <SmatZ> but char salted_password[NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH];
22:37:26 <SmatZ> and "44ffffffd3ffffffd472012dffffffbe74ffffffc0ffffffb30952ffffffaa2bffffff9e30ffffffcdffffffb058017bffffffbcffffffffffffff86ffffff944b0a273e323a3007" isn't 66 chars long
22:37:35 <SmatZ> NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH = 33, ///< The maximum length of the unique id of the clients, in bytes including '\0'
22:37:39 <glx> as I said use lengthof() or the const
22:37:43 <dih> printf("%02x", salted_password[i])
22:39:15 <Rubidium> hmm... is a char 4 bytes?
22:39:49 <Rubidium> hmm, that wouldn't explain the values
22:40:07 <SmatZ> for (uint i = 0; i < NETWORK_UNIQUE_ID_LENGTH; i++)
22:40:16 <dih> then why use sizeof() here: checksum.Append((const uint8*)salted_password, sizeof(salted_password));
22:40:49 <SmatZ> ^^^ that makes i 0..32, not 0..31 as might be intended
22:41:26 <SmatZ> memset(salted_password, 0, sizeof(salted_password));
22:41:26 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> hmm yes? <-- I mean... the crossing is what you see... the signs and nothing else
22:41:33 <SmatZ> there is sizeof() used too...
22:41:58 <Rubidium> oh boy... I wasn't awake when I wrote that
22:42:04 <glx> it's a memset so sizeof is right there
22:42:50 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: well... it's not what you expect to see in curves where the speed limit for the trains is 75 km/h
22:42:55 <SmatZ> glx: ok sorry, I am 'a bit' tired :-x
22:43:06 <peter__> char is, of course, 1 byte
22:43:22 <Gonozal_VIII> you can see far there... our crossings are much worse
22:43:33 <Bjarni> thanks for the warning
22:43:52 <dih> i am getting the same output
22:44:18 <dih> and i am doubting you want me to past it again ^^
22:44:31 <SmatZ> this year, 30 people died at crossings in our country... it is ~3% of all dead in car accidents, a lot :-x
22:45:17 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm doesn't seem to be that much
22:45:49 <Gonozal_VIII> and they all died in cars?
22:46:11 <Gonozal_VIII> most of the dead on the rails here didn't have a car
22:46:21 <Gonozal_VIII> well.. not with them when they died
22:46:29 <SmatZ> I was talking about only car accidents at crossings
22:46:29 <Bjarni> last year 400 people died on the roads... 380 of them were due to too high speed so if nobody were speeding then the number would be 20
22:46:39 * Bjarni goes to look up the stats for the railroad
22:46:42 <SmatZ> Bjarni: no speeding != no dead
22:47:04 <Bjarni> well 20 people died in cases where nobody were speeding
22:48:24 <Bjarni> I like the name of that diff
22:48:53 <dih> i'll give it a shot Rubidium
22:49:00 <SmatZ> it is like "2% of accidents was caused by 'drunk drivers' (alcohol level > 0)", but nobody says that all accidents where somebody has alcohol > 0 is accounted to alcohol and the statistical number of people with alcohol is > 1%
22:49:19 <SmatZ> so in fact, 'drunk' driving do not increase the danger of accident
22:49:45 <Rubidium> SmatZ: according to that rule 100% of the accidents happen due to alcohol
22:49:48 <SmatZ> Bjarni: would it really matter if they were going 95 (over limit) or 90 (in limit) ?
22:50:00 <Rubidium> as everybody has some alcohol in his/her blood
22:50:21 <SmatZ> Rubidium: that's the other side of our unrealistic laws, yes
22:50:23 <Bjarni> looks like there are no 2007 numbers but I can get 2006 numbers
22:50:33 <Bjarni> they are likely the same (more or less)
22:51:08 <Gonozal_VIII> drunk is >0,05% here and that's a lot more than 2% of the accidents
22:52:54 <Bjarni> 4 collisions in road crossings
22:53:49 <Bjarni> the 4 lines later it says 1 for the very same thing
22:54:19 <SmatZ> people here usually go 5km from one village to another when they are 'drunk' and it really doesn't burt anyone...
22:54:33 <SmatZ> so a few accidents, but a lot caught 'drunk'
22:54:47 <dih> password received on server by ppc mac: 1b627d6fbcf70c5fbdaa77d353cf2911
22:55:04 <dih> password received on server by amd: 1b627d6fbcf70c5fbdaa77d353cf2911
22:55:27 <Gonozal_VIII> 84, 67, 57, 56 dead in accidents caused by alcohol in the years 03, 04, 05, 06
22:55:44 <Gonozal_VIII> 9,0% 7,6% 7,4% 7,7%
22:55:55 <Gonozal_VIII> of total traffic dead
22:56:03 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: well, "caused by alcohol" doesn't mean it wouldn't happen if there was no alcohol
22:56:26 <SmatZ> and that all accidents when one of drivers has alcohol is accounted to the 'drunk' driver
22:56:31 <SmatZ> no matter how it happened
22:56:39 <SmatZ> so the number could be divided by 2
22:56:48 <Gonozal_VIII> 4.020 4.017 3.825 3.565 <-- number of people that got hurt but survived
22:57:14 * dih waits for Rubidiums commit ^^
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22:58:06 <Bjarni> ok here is the detailed description of injury on people in crossing collisions. One person killed in a car in a crossing with no automated security (like the one I just showed a pic of). One person was lightly injured while riding a vehicle without engine (presumably a bike)
22:58:47 <Bjarni> so it looks like the roads killed 400 times as many people as trains killed in crossings
22:58:52 <Gonozal_VIII> they wrote "a vehicle without engine" ?^^
22:59:42 <Bjarni> actually they wrote "-vehicle without engine" and then 1 in the field for the amount of injuries
23:00:08 <Bjarni> I can also see that it was in a crossing where the whole road is blocked by barriers (not just the common half road wide ones)
23:00:45 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm 2.841 2.835 2.746 2.579 <-- that's the number of accidents with alcohol involved...
23:00:47 <SmatZ> the problem here is that there are new very strict laws
23:00:58 <Gonozal_VIII> notice that the injured people are much more...
23:01:04 <SmatZ> and people ignore the laws the more now
23:01:21 <SmatZ> the problem of strict laws
23:02:15 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess they have a strange definition of injured... oh noes, i broke my nail at the crash
23:03:10 <Gonozal_VIII> oh... only the accidents where somebody was hurt are counted
23:04:35 <Bjarni> the stats I'm reading counts all accidents where people were injured/killed for damaged stuff for at least 10.000 EUR
23:04:59 <Bjarni> don't ask me why the Danish railroads count damage in EUR instead of our own currency
23:05:23 <Gonozal_VIII> you have a currency?
23:06:10 <Gonozal_VIII> can't you just give people something and get something else back?
23:06:10 <Bjarni> what else do you use a currency for? :)
23:06:48 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> can't you just give people something and get something else back? <-- you could but you need a currency to be able to have a strong currency and strong economy
23:06:54 <Gonozal_VIII> like a paperclip for a house...
23:07:25 <Gonozal_VIII> you could but you need a currency to be able to have a strong currency <-- oooooh
23:07:45 <Bjarni> I don't think people can disprove that one
23:08:49 <Gonozal_VIII> what about the people that have a weak currency?
23:10:20 <Bjarni> well... weak is a relative word
23:10:30 <Bjarni> weak compared to here :)
23:10:46 <Arbitrary> 2.8 accidents with alcohol involved? Is that someone half-drunk, or a very messy accident?
23:10:51 <Gonozal_VIII> well.. everything got much more expensive with euro
23:11:01 * Bjarni goes to read on the 2020 plan
23:11:38 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: as if oil would not have become as expensive as it is now due to the euro...
23:12:11 <Gonozal_VIII> 13,7603 schilling = 1 euro... but directly after the euro was there, everything that used to cost 10 schilling was at least 1 euro
23:12:20 <Rubidium> the prices for food and such have even dropped since the introduction of the euro (at least in the Netherlands)
23:13:03 <Gonozal_VIII> food... at least twice the prices
23:13:24 <Gonozal_VIII> only electronics got cheaper
23:13:34 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: that's due to the weak dollar
23:14:13 <dih> Rubidium: i beleive that goes to you --> [00:13] <publicserver> planetmaker: hey, dih. That's sweet! You're great devs.
23:14:15 <Rubidium> ah well.... a long time ago a bread was worth the equivalent of one eurocent
23:14:39 <dih> i used his help at one point when looking for the password issue ^^
23:14:39 <Rubidium> now it's much more, is that the cause of the euro?
23:16:59 <Gonozal_VIII> the cost for foodstuff went up more then 30% in the year of euro introduction
23:17:22 <Bjarni> crops are more expensive now because farmers started to grow "bio petrol"
23:18:04 <Bjarni> so combined with that Gonozal_VIII said then it's something you should really notice
23:18:13 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII statistics are sooo nice to get such figure ;)
23:18:29 <Gonozal_VIII> personal experience, not statistics
23:18:54 <Gonozal_VIII> they didn't use 13,76, they used 10...
23:19:18 <Rubidium> at the 31st of december a <whatever vegetable that grows in the winter> is worth one euro, in the summer it costs 3 euro -> see prices have gone up by 200% due to the euro
23:19:27 <Gonozal_VIII> things that used to cost 29,90 are now 2,99...
23:20:19 <Bjarni> Rubidium: that's a really poor example and you know it. However you just stated your political view on the euro
23:20:27 <Rubidium> then the people of your country were stupid enough to pay that price for it
23:20:45 <Rubidium> Bjarni: but it *is* the way statistics are made
23:20:55 <Rubidium> especially the ones you read in the paper/see on the news
23:21:08 <Rubidium> if it isn't shocking, it's not in the paper or the news
23:21:29 <Bjarni> Rubidium: if ALL shops increases the price by 30% overnight... will you be stupid enough to buy stuff anyway or will you stop buying food?
23:22:09 <Rubidium> well, you all go to the cheapest store
23:22:09 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: No, only 17% of statistics are made that way.
23:22:18 <Prof_Frink> 83% are made up on the spot.
23:22:43 <Bjarni> <Rubidium> Bjarni: but it *is* the way statistics are made <--- not really. You just made up an example that wouldn't last a day in the real life
23:22:45 <Gonozal_VIII> don't have much to choose here
23:23:09 <Rubidium> Bjarni: I have *seen* those comparisons in the paper
23:23:37 <Bjarni> SmatZ: no... your paycheck will not increase
23:24:02 <Sacro> SmatZ: but your penis will, BUY CIALIS
23:24:09 <Bjarni> Rubidium: I have seen bullshit articles as well... it's not like everything the papers says are correct
23:24:18 <Bjarni> in fact it's usually not entirely correct
23:24:41 <Rubidium> and the less correct ones are the ones that are the most shocking and thus remain noticed
23:25:43 <Bjarni> well... I notice them but I kill them off quickly for being incorrect
23:27:35 <Rubidium> yes, I know people have misused the introduction of the euro, but in my opinion the effects have been very small and probably unnoticable w.r.t. the fluctuations in the inflation figures
23:28:20 <Rubidium> what is 'more' shocking is that companies are very good in hiding the fact that the raise the price of something
23:28:34 <Gonozal_VIII> expensive stuff didn't change much, only the cheap things
23:29:36 <Rubidium> an example (in 2007): a bag of <sweets X> was 1 euro, then they made the bag 30% smaller for 10% less of the price and they introduced a bag with 30% more that costs 50% more
23:29:56 <Rubidium> this is happening all the time and I have not heard ANYBODY about it
23:30:16 <Rubidium> when it has more effect on the prices of the product than the whole euro introduction has (at least where I live)
23:30:21 <Bjarni> I don't buy stuff like that
23:30:45 <Rubidium> happens with more than just sweets
23:30:47 <Bjarni> whenever I eat I eat food
23:32:21 <Rubidium> Bjarni: you were good in Japanese, weren't you?
23:32:35 <Bjarni> that depends on how you define good
23:32:44 <Rubidium> you're the one that's talking Japanese all the time ;)
23:32:55 <Bjarni> but I can't sit down and read a book
23:33:26 <Bjarni> but... what does that have to do with the euro?
23:33:56 <Rubidium> nothing, but I'm having trouble finding something
23:34:53 <Rubidium> something being the time table for the bus going from the main bus terminal of Tsukuba to a busstop called "Namiki 2-Chome"
23:35:00 <Bjarni> then try Akihabara... you can buy all the freaky stuff there
23:35:24 <Rubidium> that's where the train to Tsukuba departs from ;)
23:35:36 <Gonozal_VIII> why do you want a timetable from a bus in japan :S
23:35:57 <Bjarni> I think he is planning on going there
23:36:19 <Rubidium> yup, in about four weeks ;)
23:37:17 <Sacr1> something isn't right...
23:37:44 <Rubidium> now it's right again
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23:46:44 <Bjarni> Rubidium: btw if you go to Akihabara, then don't look like an otaku... some criminal minds discovered that otaku tend to have plenty of money when going shopping there and in Japan they go shopping with cash, not credit card
23:46:58 <Bjarni> meaning the risk of getting robbed is present
23:47:29 <Bjarni> so don't look like the typical otaku (which is likely hard with your skin colour, but still)
continue to next day ⏵
