IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-01-10
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00:22:43 <ln-> wow, i'm receiving events from the CustomView
00:23:16 <ln-> one could claim that's quite an important part in an editor.
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00:53:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11804 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp: -Fix(r11797,FS#1636): Industry tiles should receive the same medecine as indstries themselves regarding the resolver's object
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01:44:03 <ln-> congratulations canada for your new 24-hour clock!
02:10:46 <Sacro> ooh, signalling changes
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03:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> wäh, conflicts...
03:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... modified foundation building costs conflicts...
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03:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> that was weird...
03:32:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> 12 minutes without internet... the horror!
03:32:52 <ln-> do you have irc client on your cell phone?
03:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... i have irc on every cell phone i own, if that is what you meant :p
03:45:47 <ln-> how much does 1 MB of gprs data cost?
03:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> i just don't actually have any cell phone :p
03:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> lots of restructuring going on in the code... this is the first time i really have to resolve conflicts all over the place
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04:29:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> errr... why is there suddenly such an annoying "save in progress" popup?
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10:02:29 <l_Blue_l> yay tt-forums is working for me now.
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11:55:27 <keyweed> ave / hallo / bonjour / hello / guten tag
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13:07:51 <alekcxjo> i'v problem to compile
13:07:55 <alekcxjo> i receive: configure: error: libpng depends on zlib, which couldn't be found / was disabled
13:08:08 <alekcxjo> but zlib IS installed...
13:08:41 <keyweed> you need a diff zlib package. i had the same problem
13:09:06 <keyweed> now i can only remember wich...
13:09:20 <alekcxjo> and what should i make?
13:09:50 <keyweed> you need to apt(itude) one of these: zlib-bin zlib1g zlib1g-dev zlibc
13:10:03 <Rubidium> zlib1g-dev should be enough
13:13:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r11805 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#1620]: VEHICLE_TRIGGER_EMPTY was triggered continuously while train waiting in station.
13:14:32 <alekcxjo> apt-get install svn ^^
13:15:23 <Sacro> aot-get command not found
13:15:29 <Sacro> apt-get command not found
13:15:41 * SpComb banishes the ark linux troll
13:15:50 * Sacro ponders who he is referring to
13:16:05 <Sacro> SpComb: no ark linux trolls here afaik
13:16:21 <SpComb> you know exactly who I was referring to
13:16:29 <SpComb> I've trolled about this before
13:16:32 <Sacro> probably me, but you got the wrong distro
13:16:49 <SpComb> I got exactly the distro I inteded to
13:22:59 <alekcxjo> when i launch ./openttd in /bin
13:23:16 <alekcxjo> it's launched like if i'd make ./openttd -D
13:23:25 <alekcxjo> as a dedicaced server...
13:24:31 <alekcxjo> when i launch ./openttd in /bin
13:24:34 <alekcxjo> it's launched like if i'd make ./openttd -D
13:25:51 <alekcxjo> as a dedicaced server...
13:40:21 <SpComb> configure --dedicated?
13:43:57 <Sacro> xft antialiasing looks goooooooorgeous
13:45:04 <Sacro> SpComb: actually, i have the same problem
13:45:23 <Sacro> installing SDL may help
13:45:45 <SpComb> and ./configure --with-sdl, if it's not on by default
13:45:55 <Sacro> i'd just not installed SDL yet
13:46:09 <Sacro> i think i might try xmonad out
13:46:15 <Sacro> i quite fancy the idea of a tiling wm
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13:47:21 <Belugas> hooo my god! a commit by a non-dev :S
13:47:28 <Belugas> ho.. wait... he's a dev !
13:47:43 * Sacro takes the whisky from Belugas
13:50:26 <Belugas> @openttd commit 11805
13:50:26 <DorpsGek> Belugas: Commit by frosch :: r11805 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2008-01-10 13:13:18 UTC)
13:50:27 <DorpsGek> Belugas: -Fix [FS#1620]: VEHICLE_TRIGGER_EMPTY was triggered continuously while train waiting in station.
13:50:46 <Belugas> and not in the morning ;)
13:55:29 <DorpsGek> Sacro: smatz was last seen in #openttd 16 hours, 53 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <SmatZ> :-D flying car
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13:58:39 <Belugas> rum it will be. don't fight 2 against 1
13:59:17 <Sacro> i need a nice linux IDE for C++
14:01:04 <Sacro> glx: is it that good? it always bugs me
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14:01:54 <Sacro> i'm just installing monodevelop now, but that's more for uni
14:11:10 <Roujin> for anyone who likes my patches, i uploaded i pack with all of them in the forums :P well gotta go now, already late for some lesson at uni xD
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14:33:40 <dihedral> has anybody looked at the issue with setting company pass from mac and win?
14:33:55 <dihedral> has anybody had a chance to have a look at
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14:45:16 <Sacro> dihedral: first sentance is better
14:45:31 <dihedral> then use that one ^^
14:45:37 <Sacro> because you don't care whether someone had the chance to look at it
14:45:42 <Sacro> but whether someone actually did
14:46:17 <dihedral> because i am quite aware that there is more to live than just this game and it's code
14:46:38 <dihedral> and i dont want to in any way imply that i care for the code more than for what goes around other people
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14:52:13 <dihedral> Sacro: have you actually heared of that?
14:54:31 <Draakon> can anyone tell me what line of code and where should i change/remove to disable closure of Industries
14:54:55 <Sacro> Draakon: there is a patch in dev forum
14:55:12 <Draakon> but options arent seperated
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14:55:24 <Draakon> and i want to disable only closure of industries
14:56:17 <dihedral> then look at the patch and edit the source after you applied it
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14:58:21 <dihedral> so basically you are asking for someone to make you a patch so that you dont have to learn or do any work
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14:58:58 <Draakon> i am asking what and where to change
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14:59:17 <dihedral> which in affect is the same
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14:59:43 <dihedral> have a look at the patch and see if you can make head's and/or tails of it
15:02:09 <dihedral> well - give you 2 ideas ^^
15:02:27 <dihedral> as static bool CheckIndustryCloseDownProtection sais, it returnes true or false
15:02:44 <dihedral> set it to one of them compile and see what happens, if it does not work, try setting it to the other ^^
15:02:50 <Belugas> if i'm not mistaken, this code handles conditional closure of grf industries
15:04:00 <Draakon> as this seems to be the code that makes no closures for industries
15:04:27 <dihedral> what is the code that looks like it's stopic it to open indus?
15:05:15 <Draakon> this looks like to be it: if (i->prod_level == 4) closeit = true;
15:06:04 <glx> Draakon: don't touch this
15:06:05 <Belugas> wrong place, wromg code
15:06:19 <dihedral> give him a chance to find out for himself :-P
15:06:43 <Draakon> dihedral: your not being very helpfull here
15:06:53 <dihedral> just you will only realize later on
15:06:58 <glx> because a prod_level of 4 means it's already too late
15:07:47 <dihedral> Draakon: it's more helpful if people are not given the answer, but shown how the answer can be found ^^
15:07:59 <dihedral> and if it then still does not work after a few failed tries
15:08:03 <Belugas> preventing an industry closure by code can be in many ways.
15:08:13 <Draakon> dihedral: depends from people from people
15:08:15 <Belugas> preventing production to drop below 4 is one
15:08:25 <dihedral> yes - depends how lazy people are
15:08:27 <Belugas> and the most secure one
15:09:18 <Draakon> hmm i think i try to change the patch tottaly
15:09:49 <dihedral> Draakon: big hint, dont edit the patch file itself, rather apply the patch and then edit the files
15:11:22 <Draakon> because Tourtise SVN will get some errors if trying to apply it?
15:11:55 <dihedral> one just does not edit patch files unless one _really_ knows what he/she is doing
15:12:33 <Draakon> k i understand(hopefully)
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15:16:55 <Draakon> does somebody knows how long it takes for a coal mine to close if no one is servicing it?
15:18:40 <LA[lord]> it has to have extremely low production.,.
15:18:51 <LA[lord]> and that totally depends..
15:19:00 <Sacro> it like totally does ^^
15:19:14 <dihedral> open it in a scenario editor, set prod very low, then play it
15:20:33 <Draakon> ah what the heck i just use the whole patch instead
15:25:10 * Draakon wonders what patch most people want into the trunk? i mean which is top 1 in the Whishlist
15:25:25 <Draakon> anyone knows perhaps?
15:26:12 <dihedral> all the decently coded bug fixing ones ^^
15:26:36 <dihedral> where 'decently' = according to coding guidline
15:26:57 <Noldo> what do you mean by people?
15:27:58 <Draakon> Noldo: you don't know English word, people?
15:29:22 <Draakon> dihedral: most people want feature patches
15:29:43 <dihedral> that is because the poeple you consider as 'most' are noobish players
15:30:01 <dihedral> ok - perhaps drop the word 'noobish'
15:30:22 <LA[lord]> those *feature* patches just consist of big amount of bugs usually :D
15:30:57 <LA[lord]> or ideas which change gameplay dramatically
15:31:05 <LA[lord]> in the suggestion forums...
15:31:07 <dihedral> r11786_added_bugs_feature.diff
15:31:32 <dihedral> you can switch the bugs on in the 'patches' controll windows ^^
15:32:01 <LA[lord]> a server option -> desync player 4
15:32:18 <Draakon> ah nvm about my problem, i need to download newer patch
15:32:32 <LA[lord]> that would be mean.. wouldn't it :D
15:32:34 <dihedral> Draakon: was about to ask what rev the patch was for
15:32:53 <dihedral> LA i think i might do that - would only be a server side thing
15:33:05 <dihedral> and then all clients named 'Player' get 'desynced' ^^
15:33:46 <Draakon> another server option: destroy certain company creations, everything
15:34:20 <dihedral> yes - Draakon, that would be reset_company x
15:34:31 <Draakon> i meant the diffrent way
15:34:39 <Draakon> keep the company and money
15:35:20 <LA[lord]> and dih.. I always forget to set my name before connecting, so I join as player and then change name...
15:35:37 <LA[lord]> so your feature would rule me out :D'
15:36:02 <Draakon> that desync one will be good
15:36:25 <Draakon> as if you want to kick a certan player but not really say for them that they have been kicked
15:37:13 <LA[lord]> but then they try to reconnect... and desync again.. and again and finally submit a bug report :D
15:37:48 <Draakon> that one is more efficent
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15:51:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11806 /trunk/src/players.cpp: -Fix (r11793) [FS#1638]: sign inversion when updating income and expenses
15:52:26 <Draakon> i need to get new revision then
15:53:21 <glx> Draakon: you need to remove command_queue.cpp before patching (as it is created by the patch)
15:53:46 <Draakon> i update the revision itself as it need to be updated
15:58:46 <Draakon> what happens if for exaple i apply a patch that is meant for r11781 to a r11765?
15:59:40 <egladil> it might or might not work
15:59:41 <pm|work> @draakon: you may be fine or you may introduce any behaviour up to crashing your computer with the compiled executable.
16:02:26 <Draakon> :S why do i get invalid chunk size error if i have r11766 but the scenario was created with r11556 and maps that have been created with older revision not?
16:04:00 <dihedral> he is trying to play the osqc scenario in his just compiled no_indu_closedown binary
16:04:24 <Noldo> glx: I take my sorry back(or part of it) "+p->cur_economy.expenses += cost.GetCost();" says the diff I applied to FS
16:04:26 <Draakon> a personal one that i made
16:04:50 <Draakon> you mean the example on?
16:06:07 <glx> Noldo: and it should be "+p->cur_economy.expenses -= cost.GetCost();" as it was with the old code
16:06:10 <Draakon> but you did reminder one thing to me
16:09:54 <Draakon> thanks for remindering it, dihedral
16:13:06 <Draakon> i know that devs use compiling farm, but is it home made?
16:20:31 <dihedral> i believe TrueBrain developed it
16:23:28 <dihedral> and if i am not mistaken, it is 'just' there for the nightlies
16:24:11 <Draakon> google tour bus made a crash into tree too.
16:29:33 <Draakon> i found a bug in 11798 concerning new grf industries being opened, non patched game
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16:31:05 <Draakon> a scenario was made with only one town and no industries
16:31:28 <Draakon> and half news paper then seen
16:31:41 <Draakon> and Game decided to make a crash then
16:33:20 <Draakon> game displays a error once above is occured
16:33:39 <glx> something like assertion failed?
16:34:02 <Draakon> i see if i can recreate
16:35:05 <Draakon> but it isnt avabile to download
16:35:17 <dihedral> now - it's available via svn
16:35:25 <glx> you can compile it yourself
16:35:38 <Draakon> wtf? ai is wierd now too
16:36:06 <Draakon> green had a statoion and a depot in a town
16:36:10 <SmatZ> it has never been non-weird
16:36:28 <Draakon> then blue was able to overwrite his station over green
16:36:35 <Draakon> like he demolished it
16:36:51 <SmatZ> Draakon: did he buy the green player?
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16:40:34 <Draakon> as i have never seen nothing like this before
16:44:28 <Noldo> glx: ok, guilty of not able to read a diff too
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17:28:20 <Draakon> a industry in ECS Vectors is causing assertion failed errors
17:31:01 <Belugas> would you be kind enough to update your repo to HEAD revision, as it has been suggeted to you Draakon? It has been fixed
17:33:18 <Belugas> well... can you recompile? i can give you the fix
17:34:36 <Belugas> too bad for you, sorry for you. nothing to do aobut it
17:36:07 <Wolf01> any new feature being worked to be included in trunk 'soon'?
17:36:35 <Belugas> what?? and spoil the fun??? naaaa.... ;)
17:37:18 <Belugas> And Silence Falls on the Channel
17:37:54 <Roujin> still working on the one you told me? :P
17:38:09 <Roujin> or dropped that for something else? :P
17:38:21 <Draakon> after which follows of opening new shop at a random map in a town called: stanwell
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17:39:00 <Belugas> Roujin, not recently, doing bug fixes and real life ;)
17:39:36 <Roujin> yeah real life does have some nasty bugs...
17:39:46 <Roujin> glad to hear you're fixing them xD
17:39:50 <Draakon> so a map with seed no. 546853584 with no. of towns set to low and no. of indus to medium with no grfs is no more usable
17:40:18 <Draakon> real life has bugs? since when?
17:41:35 <Roujin> it's freakin' buggy :P
17:42:23 <Belugas> well... when you're programming in a paied job, yeah, real life has bugs :D
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17:42:47 <Roujin> e.g. the whole women thing... whoever coded them must have had one beer too much ;)
17:48:39 <Roujin> sooo.. is flyspray still the right place to go when you have a patch you'd like to see included in trunk?
17:49:31 <Roujin> there's this mailbox aswell.. i dunno :/
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17:59:35 <Belugas> Roujin, FlySpray in deed, the mail box seems a bit dead... TrueBrain does not manage it anymore, nor can i
18:00:35 <Desolator> Does anyone know what form is recomended in C++: `int main()' or `int main(void)'? What I know is that in C `int main()' has unknown parameters (although that's obsolete in C99), while `int main(void)' takes no parameters, but what is the form recommended by the C++ standard?
18:02:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r11807 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Make Action5 handler more upwards- and TTDP-compatible by allowing specifiing more sprites than needed.
18:02:44 <glx> Desolator: int main(int argc, char *argv[])
18:03:06 <Desolator> no, if I don't need the arguments
18:03:11 <glx> anyway void is not needed for c++
18:03:36 <Desolator> (MSVC++ stars to yell if it finds unused variables...even arguments in main!)
18:03:57 <ln-> Desolator: and Stroustrup himself thinks function(void) is ugly.
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18:07:49 <Desolator> ok, now what extensino would you recommend for headers? I currently use .hpp, but I don't see it too common
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18:33:40 <DaleStan> ln-: But what does he say about "function()"? I got the impression that "function(void)" was ugly because the correct form was "function()".
18:35:06 <DaleStan> Re Stroustrup. (Sorry, failed to note timestamps)
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18:41:54 <ln-> DaleStan: I know what you were talking about, but I don't understand what do you mean by "But what does he say about "function()"?"
18:42:30 <ln-> since you already said function() is the correct form, as it is.
18:43:14 <ln-> so made me wonder if you say there is some semantical difference between function() and function(void).
18:45:06 <Desolator> [20:07] <Desolator> ok, now what extension would you recommend for headers? I currently use .hpp, but I don't see it too common
18:45:11 <DaleStan> To my knowledge, there's no semantic difference. And never mind; I didn't read enough scrollback and thought you were replying to a later line.
18:46:25 <DaleStan> I always use .h for everything; some people use .hpp for C++ and .h for C. I chose .h mostly because it means I don't have to type as much when writing #includes.
18:47:01 <blathijs> DaleStan: So, you've also named files "a.h", "b.h", etc? :-p
18:47:24 <SmatZ> or ".h" for really often needed include
18:49:45 <DaleStan> Not quite that bad, but close. I've done quite a few "????.h" And that's not a header file, SmatZ. If the first character is a dot, it does not start the extension, Window's impressions to the contrary notwithstanding.
18:53:59 <blathijs> I think you could also just say #include "a" though
18:55:53 <glx> yes you can #include anything as you can compile anything
18:56:18 <glx> extensions don't matter for preprocessor and compiler
18:56:37 <SmatZ> maybe you could write a macro
18:56:48 <SmatZ> to have "#include" shorter
18:57:30 <ln-> i don't think that's possible.
18:57:36 <ln-> without writing your own pre-processor.
18:57:52 <ln-> although.. i haven't tried
18:59:00 <ln-> but, no, it doesn't seem to be possible.
18:59:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11808 /trunk/config.lib:
18:59:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: remember --with-ccache in config.cache
18:59:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: shuffle params a bit, sort params in save_params_array in the same order as the table above
19:00:34 <SmatZ> ln-: all #include, #if, #define ... are preprocessor directives, it should be possible to define that macro
19:00:53 <SmatZ> preprocessor does macro expansion, too
19:01:09 <ln-> SmatZ: ok, show me an example.
19:01:13 <SmatZ> but ... depends how preprocessor and compiler are divided in gcc
19:01:31 <Octave> Excuse me... I have a question. Is there a place on the web, where you can organise multiplayer games with other people? I want to have a multiplayer game using a few newgrfs, but nobody is joining my server. I'm just bored with the original train set and stations...
19:02:32 <Belugas> Octave, yu can try the tt-forums, or just advertize it in here :)
19:03:36 <SmatZ> ln-: ok, it doesn't work
19:04:20 <Wolf01> r11808 smatz 2008-01-10 19:59:16 +0100 (Thu, 10 Jan 2008) eheh just in time :P
19:05:01 * Desolator wonders why `#pragma once' isn't in the C++ standard
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19:06:05 <ln-> Desolator: is there any #pragma in the standard? except for the #pragma directive itself.
19:06:07 <Desolator> SmatZ: you're an ottd dev? I don't think I've seen you before, what's your username on the forums?
19:07:17 <Octave> Well... If anybody feels like a game, the server is called !!UKRS+addon+newstats!!...
19:09:55 <pavel1269> Octave: newstats? isnt that a patch?
19:10:57 <Wolf01> oh noes, batman returned
19:11:33 <Desolator> SmatZ: Hmm, since when you're a dev?
19:12:51 <Belugas> quite a few revs, already :)
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19:14:18 <Desolator> well, since it's the first time I see you commiting code (and I've looked at the loga quite often), I'll say Congratulations!
19:14:25 <Octave> Uhh, what I meant by that is the 'New Stations V.0.42'... I started a new server to avoid confusion, '!!UKRS+addon+newstV0.42!!'
19:16:11 <SmatZ> Desolator: maybe two months :)
19:16:39 <pavel1269> no damages, advanced loading, 20+ station wide, year under 1975 and you could met me sometimes :)
19:17:58 <SmatZ> Desolator: my first manual commit was r11456 :)
19:22:42 <Octave> Are those things patches? I'm quite new to openttd, multiplayer that is, I have been playing TT for about 12 years now though, I had a demo of it when it first came out that you could only have railways on!
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19:25:25 <Belugas> Been a while already :)
19:25:37 <Belugas> [14:23] <SmatZ> Desolator: my first manual commit was r11456 :)
19:25:50 <Belugas> stucked irc line on not current :S
19:26:17 <SmatZ> Octave you may discuss at tt-forums.net
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19:28:40 <Desolator> great, I got a translation of "Everything about C and C++" in Romanian, and guess what? void main(void) !..I hope it's the only big mistake in it
19:29:20 <orudge> void main(void) is not necessarily incorrect
19:29:24 <Desolator> (though it was written in 1997 and I think that time it was allowed but not recommended at all in C89)
19:29:27 *** LA[lord]_ is now known as LA[lord]
19:29:47 <Sacro> orudge: excessive though
19:29:50 <Desolator> well from C99 onwards it's illegal (on most compiler works, that's another thing)
19:31:31 <Desolator> orudge: why don't we use an archive and store each file in a simple format? maybe some ogg files coupled in a tar and named something like "sounds.tar"
19:31:37 <Desolator> sample.cat makes little sense to me
19:31:59 <orudge> sample.cat is just to put things in the game as they are now
19:32:07 <orudge> the plan is to redesign the sound format, indeed
19:32:19 <pv2b> doesnt the openttd code already support looking in .tar files?
19:32:30 <pv2b> i seem to distinctly remember that from mucking about in that part of the code
19:32:41 <Desolator> not for sounds, but it can handle tars
19:32:46 <pv2b> not sure if it can see individual resource files
19:32:47 <Desolator> see the 32bpp gfx format
19:33:14 <orudge> the sound engine needs a redesign anyway
19:33:22 <orudge> for both sound and music
19:33:29 <Desolator> I remeber a patch you made, though it's EXTREMELY old
19:33:30 <orudge> something I did once already for music, but that got out of date and wasn't tht nice
19:33:40 <Desolator> how did you handle mp3s?
19:33:41 <orudge> and something I've started again, but not in any serious form
19:33:45 <orudge> I used a library for MP3s
19:33:50 <orudge> can't remember what off the top of my head
19:34:10 <pv2b> why mp3 and not some kind of vorbis?
19:34:13 <Desolator> because we might have problems with thomson unless we don't make much profit
19:34:16 <orudge> Vorbis was supported, too
19:34:22 <orudge> these were for music, not sound effects
19:34:29 <Draakon> does that sound_effects contain games sound effects?
19:34:31 <Desolator> pv2b: vorbis as well, but most people use windows and mp3 music
19:34:40 <orudge> Draakon: those are the current game sound effects
19:34:51 <pv2b> Desolator: then they can convert it into vorbis if they want to use it with the game :-)
19:35:05 <orudge> pv2b: there should be no reason we can't support MP3 too
19:35:08 <orudge> libmad works fine enough
19:35:15 <pv2b> orudge: except for patent licencing bullshit.
19:35:18 <orudge> and I don't think licencing will be too much of an issue (if at all?) for us
19:35:30 <orudge> other open source projects seem to manage without paying too much attention to it? ;)
19:35:32 <pv2b> no reason to open that can of worms at all
19:35:46 <pv2b> openttd is a game, not a universal media player that needs to support all manner of obscure formats
19:35:54 <Desolator> orudge: I'd use lame instead, just my preference
19:35:55 <orudge> mp3 is hardly an obscure format though
19:36:01 <pv2b> but that's just my opinion
19:36:08 <pv2b> i'm not going to discuss it since i'm not coding it
19:36:16 <orudge> Desolator: does lame have some form of decoding library that is easy to use?
19:36:25 <orudge> I have code here that works for vorbis and mp3
19:36:31 <orudge> that could be reused in a future redesign quite easily
19:36:34 <Desolator> pv2b: mp3 is the most popular format AFAIK, not an obscure format
19:36:40 <orudge> I have various ideas for a new sound engine
19:36:41 <Prof_Frink> make openttd speak DCOP so the Jazz Jukebox can control Amarok
19:36:45 <orudge> just don't have te time to implement it for now
19:37:03 <pv2b> Desolator: if you support mp3, people will want you to support AAC and WMV too :-)
19:37:04 <Desolator> orudge: not sure, but it's used by lots of good apps to decode & encode mp3 (audacity for example)
19:37:22 <Desolator> pv2b: wmv is a video format
19:37:28 <Prof_Frink> pv2b: Save yourself the trouble. Support phonon.
19:37:49 <pv2b> Prof_Frink: great. yet another library dependency
19:38:02 <Draakon> for 33.wav winap says that its invalid file type
19:38:07 <pv2b> Prof_Frink: which in turn depends on a lot of libraries
19:38:14 * orudge thinks 58.wav shouldn't have been there
19:38:23 <Desolator> pv2b: winamp sucks anyway :P
19:38:29 <Prof_Frink> Yes... but I have them installed already :)
19:38:31 <pv2b> Prof_Frink: i clearly want to install a part of kde and qt to be able to run openttd on my mac os x machine.
19:38:52 <pv2b> phonon is a part of kde.
19:39:08 <Prof_Frink> It'll be included in Qt4.4
19:39:21 <Desolator> Prof_Frink: OTTD runs on platforms that Qt can only dream of
19:39:36 <Desolator> not to say about kde stuff
19:39:46 <orudge> the ability to support such things optionally should not be impossible
19:39:47 <Prof_Frink> Desolator: It was a joke really
19:39:54 <pv2b> Prof_Frink: does phonon work on amiga or morphos? ;-)
19:39:57 <orudge> the music driver framework I created previously could cope happily with such things
19:40:11 <orudge> but anyway, as a default sort of thing, mp3 and vorbis is fine
19:40:22 <pv2b> orudge: yay, so now i can't play some nice music package somebody has made, because he uses some weird optional library
19:40:33 <Desolator> orudge: how 'bout flac and wav?
19:40:49 <Desolator> flac is pretty neat, wav is common on windows
19:40:52 <pv2b> i want aac and apple lossless -- i store a lot of my music in that
19:41:02 <orudge> FLAC is possible, but I hadn't done previously
19:41:15 <orudge> we don't want to support every format under the sun
19:41:36 <orudge> but MP3, Vorbis and raw WAV were all implemented in my previous patch
19:41:40 <orudge> and should do us fine enough
19:41:44 <orudge> FLAC perhaps too, but less important
19:41:49 <Desolator> flac could be used for the sound effects, as they're kinda small and this way you can edit them directly without losing any sound
19:42:05 <pv2b> Desolator: you know what else is a nice lossless format for small sound effects? wav. :-)
19:42:15 <Desolator> wav is uncompressed
19:42:20 <Desolator> flac has pretty good compression
19:42:58 <Desolator> and why not save some space? wav is tied to m$, flac is free software and runs almost everywhere
19:43:08 <pv2b> oh, i know, you could support windows media player libraries on windows, quicktime on mac, and phonon on linux ;-)
19:43:43 <orudge> WAV isn't really tied to Microsoft, OK, it was designed by them (I think) but it's more or less universal
19:43:44 <pavel1269> and why not make list of music and support them all? :)
19:43:46 <pv2b> for other operating systems you put up an AJAX server on openttd.com which is sent the compressed sound as XML HTTP requests and returns it as a http mp3 stream
19:43:47 <Desolator> and beos? and morphos? and how bout gnulinux distro without any kde stuff?
19:43:52 <orudge> but that means another library for everyone to have to have
19:44:08 <pv2b> that'll solve any library dependencies
19:44:41 <Desolator> pv2b: I don't want to have ottd require internet access for sound
19:44:47 <pv2b> Desolator: that was a joke :-)
19:45:02 <Desolator> it's possible though...
19:45:07 <pv2b> it's a fucking stupid idea
19:45:39 <Desolator> hey, watch your language, please
19:46:01 <Prof_Frink> Plugins to talk to external media players would be cool.
19:46:19 <orudge> there should be no reason why those could not be dropped in
19:46:28 <orudge> but as a default, OpenTTD would support wav.
19:46:33 <Prof_Frink> orudge can write one for winamp.
19:46:36 <pv2b> orudge: anyway, one reason why mp3 support (or vorbis support) should be dropped -- less library dependencies
19:46:38 <Desolator> well, got to go to dinner, see ya later folks
19:46:41 <orudge> pv2b: I was just saying...
19:46:52 <orudge> if the appropriate libraries are available: mp3 and vorbis
19:46:56 <pv2b> imagine the user support issues
19:47:01 <orudge> they're not compulsory
19:47:08 <Prof_Frink> Have them as reccommends: rather than depends:
19:47:09 <orudge> it's not generally much of an issue
19:47:14 <pv2b> "my music won't play" .... "uh.... do you have the libraries installed" "the what?"
19:47:29 <Prof_Frink> pv2b: For Windows, use DirectShow
19:47:29 <orudge> certainly, I had no problem with my patch a few years ago, I could install the libraries on most platforms I tested without issues
19:47:34 <orudge> (Windows, Linux, OS/2, OS X)
19:47:40 <orudge> but if the libraries aren't there
19:47:45 <orudge> it'll just fall back to wav and midi
19:47:51 <orudge> I see no reason why there should be a big issue about it
19:47:53 <Wolf01> there is somebody who has a link for the web terrain generator?
19:48:04 <pv2b> how do you fall back to wav if no wav is available? but anyway, never mind, it's not important.
19:48:36 <orudge> why would wav not be avaiable?
19:48:43 <orudge> the format is very simple
19:48:45 <orudge> it's built into the game
19:48:48 <orudge> you don't need a library to read it!
19:49:10 <pv2b> if no wav data file is available, ow do you fall back to it?
19:49:28 <orudge> people could play decompressed wavs if they wanted ;)
19:49:34 <orudge> or we could just have all the sound effects in wav anyway
19:49:40 <orudge> basically, for all intents and purposes
19:49:46 <Draakon> should toyland sounds be replaced too?
19:49:47 <orudge> the only people compiling it themselves are going to be Linux users
19:49:52 <orudge> or people who know what they're doing
19:49:56 <orudge> the rest will get a precompiled binary
19:50:01 <Draakon> i am a windows user, i can compile too
19:50:02 <orudge> which will have libmad and libvorbis built in
19:50:11 <orudge> Draakon: yes, but you should hopefully know what you're doing in that case ;)
19:50:26 <orudge> anyway, we manage with libpng, iconv and whatever other things. libmad and libvorbis are very easy to compile and install
19:50:30 <orudge> it's a three-step process, as with any other library
19:50:36 <orudge> there really should be no big deal about it
19:50:45 <pv2b> three times number of external dependencies steps :-)
19:51:01 <orudge> but again, the game doesn't *require* them to compile
19:51:03 <orudge> it'll be less useful, sure
19:51:06 <orudge> but it'll work without them
19:51:14 <pv2b> don't forget fun library version incompatibility issues
19:51:16 <orudge> you just won't get any sfx/music, if we choose to bundle the sfx/music in that format
19:51:40 <orudge> pv2b: generally, not too much of an issue, unless you're using precompiled binaries
19:51:46 <orudge> and they're dynamically linked
19:52:03 <orudge> the API hasn't changed in the libraries as far as I'm aware, so source code ought to compile with whatever version you have
19:52:39 <reto_> I'm looking for a way to ruin the competition :)
19:53:33 <reto_> pv2b: nah, then you have to get rid of all the stupid tracks :)
19:53:46 <reto_> I mean, they perform bad, but they still make some money :)
19:53:55 <pv2b> reto_: buy them out and fix their crap
19:54:04 <reto_> nah, that was two times funny
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19:54:39 <Draakon> are you talking about single player?
19:54:42 <pv2b> reto_: you wanted a way to ruin the competition
19:55:07 <pv2b> other than that there are a few AI bugs that could be used to confuse the competition
19:55:08 <reto_> pv2b: I wanna let them bleed :)
19:55:14 <Draakon> cheat, swicht players and destroy their work
19:55:27 <pv2b> i dunno, i havent played the new ai
19:55:29 <reto_> I mean, they don't sell nonprofiting routes
19:55:33 <reto_> but this is not enough..
19:55:48 <reto_> or routes whichs industry have been closed
19:57:37 <Draakon> how can i apply a patch if i havent downloaded source with tourturise SVN?
19:57:50 <reto_> how did you downloadthe source then?
19:57:55 <pv2b> Draakon: you need source code to apply a patch.
19:58:33 <reto_> :) but I dont know how to do that on windows
19:58:46 <reto_> you could get cygwin or somethig simmilar
19:59:03 <Draakon> and torturise svn does not have a option called Apply Patch
19:59:19 <pavel1269> cyqwin is cool for appling patches :(
20:00:11 <Wolf01> gah... webtt works in truebrain's pc, i wanted to show it to a friend :|
20:04:33 <Belugas> [15:04] <Draakon> and torturise svn does not have a option called Apply Patch <--- I beg you pardon???
20:05:11 <Wolf01> ahah! now i know your local time :D
20:05:12 <Draakon> please look for 2 line of text above of yours
20:05:21 <Draakon> then you see i got it work
20:08:00 <Wolf01> notice it: the 5 minutes are his personal time span :D
20:08:51 <Belugas> sorry, Draakon, i just jumped on a sentence expressed with so much convinction that it triggered the post :)
20:09:11 <Draakon> i am compiling the source now
20:12:19 <Draakon> there are so many patches that i like to be updated
20:13:20 <reto_> hmm.. I asking myself if openttd would have an easier life with adifferent scm
20:13:41 <reto_> especially with a distributed one
20:14:25 <Draakon> why should it need new one?
20:14:47 <reto_> well, it apperas to me that openttd has a hard time integrating all these patches
20:15:20 <Belugas> there is no problem at all in the integration.
20:15:22 <Draakon> 1. Patch developers don't follow coding style
20:15:32 <Draakon> 2. Devs don't have almost no time
20:15:33 <reto_> and running more than one branch I think turned out to be a bad idea in case of the chrisin
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20:15:58 <Draakon> 3. Most of time patch developers stop supporting their work if it gets to trunk
20:16:01 <reto_> Belugas: don't you think? dont get me wrong, I dont say that the developers are doing something wrong
20:16:14 <Draakon> those are 3 main reasons why patches dont get into trunk
20:16:40 <reto_> Draakon: yeah, but I think it would be easier with one or two branches
20:16:56 <reto_> Draakon: but managing branches is a big pain in the ass with svn
20:17:02 <Belugas> "openttd has a hard time integrating all these patches" We do not have a hard time integrating them. Most of them are not going in trunk for reasons that are not related to the SCM itself, believe me
20:17:27 <reto_> but making them more mature, and filtering out the good and bad ones could be easier with a different scm
20:17:34 <reto_> of course, just changing the scm wouldn't help much
20:17:40 <Draakon> i sayed 3 main reasons why patches dont get into trunk
20:17:57 <reto_> Belugas: before they go into turnk
20:18:05 <reto_> Belugas: without any intervention from the devs
20:18:29 <Belugas> that is not going to happen :)
20:18:36 <reto_> Belugas: stop, I think you got me wrong
20:18:48 <reto_> Belugas: without intervention by the devs, they would go ito a branch
20:19:31 <reto_> it would be easier to maintain a patch by a team
20:19:35 <Belugas> there was a branch called MiniIN. it was maintained by richk67. Quite a few patches got in.
20:19:42 <Belugas> it became unmanageable
20:19:49 <Belugas> and pretty much instable
20:19:50 <reto_> I think partly due to svns liitations
20:20:11 <reto_> instability of course is not something a different scm can solve :)
20:20:11 <Draakon> reto: its not about SVN
20:20:24 <Belugas> who, as Draakon said, sat on their a@@es once in MiniIN
20:20:38 <reto_> Draakon: I explained above why I think that a different scm would make a difference
20:21:17 <Draakon> as i already sayed 3 main reasons why patches dont get into trunk
20:21:25 <Draakon> 1. Patch developers don't follow coding style
20:21:27 <reto_> yes, and I wrote my answer
20:21:28 <Draakon> 2. Devs don't have almost no time
20:21:31 <Draakon> 3. Most of time patch developers stop supporting their work if it gets to trunk
20:22:03 <Draakon> ChrishIN is not supported by devs
20:22:08 <Draakon> only one man is behind it
20:22:26 <Belugas> and there are patches VERY badly written, corrupting everything nearby
20:22:40 <reto_> yes, and thats the right way to do it, I think its an aggreed fact that the load on the devs has to be reduced
20:23:00 <reto_> Belugas: yes, there has to be some kind of process, which allows others to review a patch BEFORE a dev has to look at it
20:23:04 <reto_> that would be ideal imho
20:23:18 <Draakon> devs only know what needs to be done exacly
20:23:19 <reto_> and of course also rate a patch by users, to get an idea if its useful orn not
20:23:25 <Belugas> usually, people on forums are dealing with that part
20:23:34 <Draakon> users only deal with the idea itself
20:23:59 <Draakon> not the bugs, coding styles and the rest part that has the ability that patch gets into trunk
20:24:00 <reto_> Belugas: but don't you think some kind of hierarchy/user rating, for example with a small web tool, could make some things a bit easier
20:24:42 <Rubidium> reto_: you are free to use mercurial or git if you want to; you do not have to use svn to get OpenTTD's sources
20:25:09 <reto_> I'm just pointing out some ideas, :)
20:25:13 <reto_> you guys are doing a great job
20:25:32 <Draakon> reto: you can make your branch in your server in anyway you want
20:25:43 <reto_> Draakon: its not about me
20:25:48 <Rubidium> reto_: user ratings will mean "I like this patch" and "I don't like this patch"; it will say nothing about the code itself.
20:25:54 <Draakon> well i just pointed out
20:26:15 <reto_> Rubidium: that would be one source of information, another one I could think of would be by 'mentor's or something like that
20:26:21 <reto_> Rubidium: which would filter out 80% of the common problmes
20:26:30 <reto_> Rubidium: mentors would be choosend by the devs..
20:26:48 <reto_> you could use people who already have written some patchs which are in the trunk
20:27:00 <hylje> there was a patch tracking project up in a few parallels
20:27:01 <Rubidium> take a look at MiniIN and ChrisIN; they both are unmaintainable because they are buggy because there is no proper review of the patches before they go into trunk.
20:27:05 <reto_> people who are familiar with c++, the openttd code and have a good knowledge about QA
20:27:21 <Draakon> reto: not a good idea
20:27:33 <hylje> but i didn't have enough time (and dedication) for that
20:27:45 <hylje> that said, i could just get back to it
20:28:15 <reto_> debian has a similar system in place to ensure the quality of of packages..
20:28:25 <Desolator> alright folks, back
20:28:25 <reto_> it's quite difficult I think
20:28:32 <reto_> after all its a big software projet
20:28:33 <Rubidium> reto_: people who are familiar with C++ and the good knowledge of the OpenTTD code become the developers
20:28:52 <reto_> Rubidium: so you would rule out any benefit of a step in between?
20:29:56 <reto_> but yeah, the forum already does a lot of these things ..
20:29:56 <Rubidium> no, it's just a fact
20:30:11 <reto_> it just doesn't appear to be systematic.. somehow
20:30:30 <Rubidium> everyone else basically doesn't know enough about OTTD's workings to tell whether something will work or not
20:31:01 <reto_> Rubidium: well, a mentor could learn that from the feedback of the devs
20:31:22 <Rubidium> and... 'small web tool'. There is a idea about a better patch management system, but that never got implemented because nobody has time
20:31:37 <reto_> yes :) old problem.. big words, and then nothing gets done :)
20:32:14 <Rubidium> yes... so many people with big words who can't actually change anything
20:34:16 <reto_> after all, to quote oloh "This is a relatively large team, putting this project among the top 10% of all project teams on Ohloh.
20:37:54 <ln-> does someone see a certain similarity in the purpose and structure of name in "Jem'Hadar" and "Uruk-hai"?
20:40:37 <Desolator> how about a project to develop an alternate system for creating grfs, with a high-level language for doing so, and a "compiler" to translate it into pure nfo
20:41:12 <Desolator> this way there will be no stuff like "why make something new if the current system is completed?"
20:41:14 <glx> Desolator: Eddi|zuHause2 started something similar
20:41:39 <Desolator> hmm, any topics on the forums on so that I could see?
20:43:18 <Desolator> anyway, the most important thing I'd need would be someone who has a good knowledge of nfo
20:44:50 <Desolator> as I'm planning to use a subset of Lua as scripting language, removing loops and so as I believe they're not necessary, then implement some functions that would be easier to use than nfo actions
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20:45:29 <reto_> ln-: uruk-hai?... there has been something in a game called outcast
20:47:24 <DorpsGek> Desolator: DaleStan was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 57 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <DaleStan> Not quite that bad, but close. I've done quite a few "????.h" And that's not a header file, SmatZ. If the first character is a dot, it does not start the extension, Window's impressions to the contrary notwithstanding.
20:47:46 <Desolator> well, out to #tycoon
20:47:58 * DaleStan does not yet have "DalteStan" on his list of words to highlight on.
20:48:29 <Wolf01> you should put it in, like all other mistake combinations
20:48:37 <Desolator> anyway, I know you're a very good programmer
20:49:10 <DaleStan> I don't think I've seen it before. (Well, duh. I don't highlight on it, ergo I don't see it.)
20:49:15 <Desolator> well, I bought a book that describes boh C & C++, what sings do you think a bad book would have?
20:49:33 *** Frostregen_ has joined #openttd
20:49:54 <Desolator> I know you recommended Advanced C++ a while ago, but I've not been able to find it
20:50:40 <DaleStan> Look at the title: Does it mention "hours" or "days"? If so, it's probably not a good book.
20:51:23 <Desolator> nope, it's a translation into Romanian, the English title should be something like "Everything about C and C++"
20:52:10 <Desolator> one bad thing I saw was void main(void), though the original book was written in 1997 and AFAIK that was legal in C89 (although not recommended)
20:55:13 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
20:55:13 <DaleStan> I'm not familiar with translations, (since I speak English and only English) but I understand that English's larger technical vocabulary makes translations difficult, and when completed, less useful than the original English.
20:55:48 <Desolator> I know, though here we borrow about 60% of our vocabulary from English
20:57:25 <Desolator> And it's kinda hard to find English versions of books here as well
21:02:50 <Rubidium> DaleStan: any idea who I should contact about the question I asked you yesterday (the cargo missing when having ECS and newcargo)?
21:02:56 <DaleStan> Beyond having seen recommendations for Accelerated C++, and having learned from one of the Problem Solving with C++ series, I haven't had much experience with programming books; I usually read other code and/or the spec instead.
21:02:57 <DaleStan> I did learn from QBasic for Dummies and Teach Yourself VisualBasic in $TIMEPERIOD, many years ago, so a bad title doesn't make it useless.)
21:05:15 <DaleStan> Not really, Rubidium. ECSAgri[w] and MB's NewCargo, right? Any other GRFs? I'll see if I can figure it out tonight.
21:06:11 <Rubidium> DaleStan: yes, those two
21:09:20 *** NW|Aerandir has joined #openttd
21:10:03 <glx> but probably happen with others
21:12:39 *** NW|Aerandir is now known as Aerandir
21:14:43 *** Rubidium has joined #openttd
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21:15:13 <orudge> ooh, version detection for MSVC, funky
21:15:16 * orudge hasn't built OpenTTD in a while
21:16:28 <Wolf01> i should update my msvc checkout, i'm too much used with tortoise and notepad :P
21:20:59 * dih is working on solving the mac password issue ^^
21:27:45 <orudge> when did OpenTTD get the high score chart?
21:28:42 <peter__> hasn't it had it forever?
21:29:32 <orudge> maybe it's just the green button made it more visible
21:29:36 <orudge> it seems to be here in this 0.5.x version
21:30:25 <orudge> I just never noticed it with the button being where it is :P
21:30:59 <orudge> now that it's bright green
21:31:01 <orudge> it's a bit more visible
21:31:14 <orudge> it's here in r2364M (aka, one of my new music test versions)
21:31:15 <peter__> why is it green, anyone?
21:31:26 * orudge listens to some random vorbis files in openttd
21:36:17 * Hendikins plays a game of "how much work issue shit can I fit in my laptop bag?"
21:36:21 * Prof_Frink listens to the closing music from the Bourne Identity on Codeine
21:36:30 <Hendikins> (Whilst still managing to fit a laptop in there)
21:36:40 <Prof_Frink> Hendikins: Start with an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepc
21:37:20 <Hendikins> I have an Acer Aspire 5520, I don't need an eepc :P
21:38:42 <Prof_Frink> Oh, nobody *needs* an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, they just want them.
21:39:12 <peter__> i shall steal my dad's
21:40:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:40:39 <Hendikins> I don't want one :P
21:41:24 * Hendikins packs work-issue sunscreen, insect repellent, reflective vest...
21:41:31 <Hendikins> I get to play with level crossings today :P
21:47:56 * Hendikins pads off and tailswishes
21:54:55 <reto_> hmm.. passenger destinations: is the patch on the first page of the forum-thread, or somewhere else?
21:54:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11809 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#1643]: set expenses type when selling all vehicles in depot
22:00:07 <ln-> is Effective C++ worth buying?
22:01:36 <SmatZ> خلوت تر از این نبود ؟؟ :-D
22:02:09 <reto_> ln-: hmm.. may be the book you mention is not a beginner book, then I can't help :)
22:03:39 <dih> i dont have my bot in here
22:03:43 <Sacro> SmatZ: any info on how the new signalling system works?
22:03:46 <SmatZ> dih sure they are, but how can I open them?
22:03:48 <dih> but you can have a look at those of openttdcoop ^^
22:03:58 <ln-> reto_: indeed I'm not looking for a beginner book.
22:04:07 <dih> i could get JJ in here, just dont know if the dev's would appreciate it
22:04:17 <dih> besides there are nice logs at thegrebs.com
22:04:27 <Prof_Frink> JJ? Squirrels with tits?
22:05:08 <dih> diff is only that i log to a database and dont have the OpenTTD plugin - but i could get it ^^
22:05:25 *** Mark is now known as MarkAwaya
22:05:34 *** MarkAwaya is now known as MarkAway
22:05:55 <Prof_Frink> Well, if it's called JJ, it should draw pictures of squirrels with tits.
22:10:15 <peter__> new signalling system?
22:11:27 * Sacro has been hacking around with it, seems quite reasonable
22:11:51 <peter__> i assumed the functionality was the same (apart from the long-track-bug)
22:12:39 <Sacro> i'm attempting to get signals to default to red, but it's not happening
22:14:22 <ln-> is anyone a member of the mafia here?
22:14:50 <Sacro> ln-: one will be at your door soon
22:14:51 * Prof_Frink is now known as Don_Frink
22:15:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd
22:20:59 <Prof_Frink> ln-: Go to bed. If there's a horses head there when you wake up, it was a yes.
22:21:35 <Sacro> or your missus needs replacing
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22:46:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11810 /trunk/src/signal.cpp: -Fix (r11802): reset sets when leaving prematurely
22:46:18 <SmatZ> Sacro: sorry, I had a phone
22:47:22 <SmatZ> first, there are set some places where we will search - it is put into _globset
22:47:31 <SmatZ> then UpdateSignalsInBuffer is calld
22:47:44 <SmatZ> it takes one by one place from _globset
22:48:05 <SmatZ> each representing one segment (some may represent the same segment)
22:48:19 <SmatZ> ExploreSegment goes through segment
22:48:27 <SmatZ> and places found signals into _tbuset
22:48:42 <SmatZ> then, UpdateSignalsAroundSegment is called
22:48:58 <SmatZ> and updates signals in _tbuset according to flags
22:49:29 <SmatZ> when an exit signal changes its state, block behind it is added into _globset
22:49:35 <reto_> why arent there any helicopters after 2000-something?
22:49:39 <SmatZ> because it may need to be updated
22:52:04 <SmatZ> Sacro: if you need different red-green conditions, change UpdateSignalsAroundSegment
22:52:09 <peter__> not enougb engine slots ;)
22:53:18 <Sacro> SmatZ: so if i wanted to add, say yellow signals
22:53:26 <Sacro> i'd need to do that in UpdateSignalsAroundSegment
22:54:30 <peter__> openttd: /home/petern/ottd/trunk/src/ai/default/../../oldpool.h:125: T* OldMemoryPool<T>::Get(uint) const [with T = Engine]: Assertion `index < this->GetSize()' failed.
22:54:30 <peter__> Aborted (core dumped)
22:57:34 <Sacro> SmatZ: i might attempt that in a minute
22:57:42 <Sacro> then have to find out how to add yellowsigsw.grf
23:04:54 <reto_> where in the source code is defined which vehicel is available from when to when?
23:06:05 <peter__> all sorts of player availability stuff in there
23:06:35 <reto_> was browsing through engine.h, but.. well
23:07:02 <peter__> oh, but there's a url now
23:13:47 <Sacro> SmatZ: you planning on any signal stuff updates?
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23:34:58 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
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