IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-12-30
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00:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you may never use floats in openttd
00:01:16 <Rubidium_> Eddi|zuHause: lies!
00:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause> in the gamebalance branch, there is a data type for fixed point operations
00:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium_: yeah, i know ;)
00:01:32 <pv2b> yeah, i have to figure out if this can be solved using only integer math
00:02:10 <Rubidium_> you may never use floats in OpenTTD's game logic; the Terragenisis mapgenerator uses floating points
00:02:58 <Rubidium_> a float is nothing more than an integer and an 'offset' (or multiplier)
00:03:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but he IS trying to do game logic...
00:03:49 <reto> hmm.. hwo can I print out uint32 name_2;
00:03:51 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, how do i solve a "/home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/src/network/core/../../date_func.h:15: error: ‘_patches’ was not declared in this scope"?
00:04:25 <Rubidium_> printf("%i\n", name_2); ?
00:04:34 <reto> I wanna print the actual string
00:05:01 <reto> there must be a way to look it up, not?
00:05:02 <Rubidium_> hmm... something with GetString I think
00:06:12 <reto> /* $Id: strings_func.h 11675 2007-12-21 19:49:27Z rubidium $ */ :)
00:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause> just that he commited to the file doesn't mean he understands it ;)
00:09:44 <reto> case SCC_STRING5: { /* {STRING5} */
00:09:44 <reto> /* String that consumes FIVE arguments */
00:10:47 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the problem?
00:11:51 <Rubidium_> I already knew that 5 minutes ago
00:16:53 <pv2b_> oftc is being quite flaky today
00:18:23 <pv2b_> or on he side of my server
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00:55:39 <reto> pv2b: i'm going to prepare everything in the next few days
00:55:51 <reto> pv2b: ill get back to you sooner or later :)
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00:56:24 <reto> never mind, if you shouldn't have time for it just dont do it, going to gather the info anyway
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01:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... alpine and PBI don't mix very well...
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02:12:37 <Sacro> a commit 5 hours ago by peter1138!!! :D
02:33:05 <pv2b> there we go. got a rudimentary version of that algo done now
02:33:09 <pv2b> it's not pretty. doesn't have to be though.
02:41:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, yapf is behaving weird on me...
02:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> yapf.rail_firstred_exit_penalty=10000
02:42:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> yapf.rail_depot_reverse_penalty=5000
02:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> now if the exit signal is red
02:43:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> it goes through a green signal, turns in the depot, and then go back through the red signal
02:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> because it isn't the first signal anymore, that route gets a much smaller penalty
02:45:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> this depot reverse penalty is much too low for my taste anyway
02:45:08 <Gonozal_VIII> it's often good to have a train enter a depot instead of waiting at a red signal
02:45:35 <Gonozal_VIII> especially if that red signal is an exit
02:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> but... not in my setup
02:48:31 <Gonozal_VIII> then change the penalty for your setup :P
02:48:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> but if i change values ingame, it does not put them in the config file...
02:49:30 <Gonozal_VIII> then change it in the config..
02:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, the config gets overwritten, when i close the game
02:51:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> after i start a game, i always end up setting the same options that i always forget...
02:51:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> turn around in stations
02:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> don't treat red twoway as dead end
02:52:23 <Gonozal_VIII> then set it before starting once
02:52:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i also changed depot penalty in a previous game
02:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> you say that so easily ;)
02:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't start games very often
02:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> the last time i tried to start a game, FS#1577 happened
02:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> this time i could only start a game because i reverted that revision
02:57:24 <Gonozal_VIII> alpine grf could need some modernisation
02:59:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, MB posted pictures of new buildings and stuff years ago...
02:59:10 <Gonozal_VIII> industry part should be removed/seperated
03:00:42 <Gonozal_VIII> mb has lots of unfinished work
03:01:28 <Gonozal_VIII> i read something about houses that act like industries and more ships
03:03:50 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2, fs1577: when, during map gen, does it hang?
03:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> i couldn't find that out exactly... the progress bar stops at different steps depending on map size
03:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> it'd be quite natural if it hanged during industry generation
03:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, r11425 was about industries
03:07:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> and specifically, mapping of industries to default industries, which the alpine set apparently does
03:10:30 <Belugas> mmh... true, looks like that
03:12:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> so... on 256x256 it stops at 0% (world generation), at 2048x2048 it stops at 15% (rough and rocky area generation)
03:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> which i assume is one of the last successfully run phases
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03:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, everything seems to work fine if i revert that revision
03:16:27 <Belugas> possibly, but it is the town that is affected
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03:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, if towns are affected, this would explain what as noticed (buildings without snow if you start after 1930)
03:27:50 <Belugas> that is frustrating...
03:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can imagine... i have no idea how this commit can be related to houses
03:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, if the hang only happens before 1930, it could be related to a house that does not get generated in later stages
03:32:50 <Belugas> i wonder if by any chances, introduciton dates have been set
03:32:54 <Belugas> that would explainbfg
03:33:46 <Belugas> harggg... kitty has walked on keyboard :(
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03:52:27 <Belugas> DoBuildTownHouse indeed...
03:52:48 <Belugas> does not seems that MB specifies a date on his grf
03:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> if i understand his concept right, he just ports the temperate landscape stuff to arctic
03:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> houses, industries, behaviour of town growth
03:53:59 <glx> should be something with "default" values again
03:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> but leaves every other value to default
03:56:52 <Belugas> true... i think glx has spotted something...
03:57:24 <glx> we usually don't have the same default as in ttdp
04:02:48 <Belugas> BigBB is going to hate me...
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06:26:57 <pv2b> i've got a first version of the new company value calculator thingy here. i've only gotten so far as that it compiles without incident. i ahven't actually even launched a binary with it yet. i'll do it tomorrow. going to bed now.
06:27:51 <pv2b> (besides actually checking whether it works of course.)
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09:15:01 <laz0r> hi, how would i get the music in openttd to play?
09:15:36 <laz0r> do i need some special data file?
09:16:04 <roboboy> where did you get your TTD data files from?
09:16:57 <laz0r> im just trying the things i found in the wiki
09:17:07 <laz0r> i got them from an old ttd cd
09:45:30 <roboboy> move the fm folder into your data folder
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10:02:04 <laz0r> currently the problem is that all songs are played through very fast
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10:02:22 <laz0r> i cant hear anything, just the names appear one after another
10:02:33 <laz0r> i think it might be a linux midi issue
10:02:41 <Rubidium_> have you installed timidity?
10:02:53 <laz0r> so, now im trying to get midi going, which means i have to load a soundfont into my sblive!
10:03:19 <Rubidium_> then midi (i.e. music) won't work under linux
10:04:02 <laz0r> my soundcard has a hardware midi renderer thing
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10:04:12 <laz0r> but i guess i could use timidity as well
10:04:28 <Rubidium_> well, OpenTTD needs some external tool to play midis
10:04:36 <Rubidium_> and that's timidity by default
10:04:55 <Rubidium_> and I have absolutely no idea how to configure another tool to play the correct midis
10:05:42 <laz0r> if i just load the .gm files with kmid, it plays them
10:05:48 <laz0r> but i cant hear anything
10:06:34 <Rubidium_> if it skips quickly over the music in OpenTTD, then it misses the external tool to play the music
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10:19:36 <laz0r> now kmid can play the .gm files
10:19:43 <laz0r> after i load a soundfont
10:20:05 <laz0r> i also installed timitidy, tried running it as daemon
10:20:16 <laz0r> but openttd still skips through the song list
10:20:47 <Rubidium_> I think it should not be a daemon, but I'm not sure at all
10:21:03 <laz0r> i just run kmid in together with openttd
10:21:31 <laz0r> not the greatest solution, but a solution
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12:20:02 <Olsson> Could anything like Open TTD be done to any other tycoon games like RCT?
12:20:39 <Olsson> If the code where open source or something.
12:23:34 <Vikthor> Olsson: Of course it could, but you have to find somebody dedicated enough to start it, like ludde did
12:24:54 <Vikthor> But I doubt anybody who is skilled enough to do it and realizes what huge task it is is going to do it
12:25:31 <peter__> if it was open source then it would be a lot less work
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12:33:16 <Olsson> so it's possible without the source code
12:35:43 <Olsson> There are so many good strategy games out there that could have been better with only small fixes. Things that seems small anyhow. I can understand what hard work it though..
12:37:59 <Olsson> It is*.. Games like Ceasar 3, RCT.. if someone just could remove the building limits and add some more larger maps. Would have been like a dream come true for us building fanatics.. hehe
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12:54:57 <Olsson> are there any other project like Open TTD out there?
12:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> depends on your definition of "like"
12:58:48 <Wolf01> there is a grfset, maybe newstations, which is like industrial stations but without tracks?
12:59:31 <Ammler> industrie renewal or something like that, a beta was released
12:59:32 <Wolf01> i have it, but seem that is not very complete
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13:00:05 <Wolf01> seem a mix between industrial stations and harbours
13:00:07 <Olsson> My english is far from great like you may have notice.. But strategy-games that are being modified by fans or perheps even new building games done by fans?
13:00:11 <Ammler> last time I was watching the thread, maedros was looking for a follower
13:00:57 <Wolf01> Olsson, i know there is a command&conquer clone, really good, but seem to be a dead project
13:02:29 <Olsson> Oh, too bad.. Maybe I should check it out anyway though. Thanks for the tips. Oh if anybody else know any active-projects please tell =)
13:03:36 <Olsson> Open TTD sounds really like a great project. The problem is that I never stuck to that game though.. I have played it to little so I should probally give it another chance.
13:04:16 <Olsson> Maybe Open TTD is kinda unique?
13:14:07 <Olsson> If someone would do a patch instead of a clone of a game like for example RCT, would that be alot easier or would it still be really hard to do?
13:14:39 <Alberth> Olsson: a patch against what then?
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13:26:25 <Ammler> Olsson: TTD has both :P
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13:38:58 <LordAzamath> hmm...yeh is reversed to hey..:P
13:39:33 <LordAzamath> just wanted to know is here anything going on..
13:39:47 <LordAzamath> so,is there something going on?
13:42:33 <Alberth> LordAzamath: In my head I have your name connected to a better than nfo language, would that be correct?
13:47:54 <Alberth> </shameless self promotion off>
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14:02:17 <Olsson> Alberth: I mean like doing a patch for RCT instead of trying to do a clone like Open TTd
14:08:18 <ln-> I'm forced to conclude that Cardassians are Germans and Bajorans are Jews.
14:12:58 <Alberth> Olsson: A patch is a set of differences between 2 versions of a program. You use it because it is generally smaller than the entire source, and it is easier to check what has changed exactly.
14:13:41 <Alberth> Olsson: We don't write patches, we generate them after modifying the source locally. Ie you need to have a source of some form first before you can make patches.
14:14:40 <Alberth> Olsson: (unless you want to modify the RCT binary directly, of course :) )
14:24:57 <Olsson> Ohh. Didn't think of it that way.. hmm but at the end it is the patch who changes the code if i got it right?
14:26:02 <Olsson> You write a patch that modifiys the source I mean
14:26:12 <Olsson> Are you a Open TTD programmer btw? :)
14:26:29 <hylje> we are a single hiveminded creature working on improving ottd
14:31:00 <Alberth> Normal procedure is to make a local copy of the source code, and hack the change that I want. Then I generate a patch file (containing the changes between the source as I downloaded it to what I have after hacking) to communicate to the devs the change I propose. When they accept the change, they apply the patch to the 'real' source where the nightlys and the releases are built from.
14:31:54 <qball> hylje: I thought we are plotting to take over the world..
14:34:06 <Alberth> With respect to the 2nd question, I just started programming in the OTTD project, I have been programming for about 25 years though.
14:34:57 <Alberth> hylje: your single hiveminded infrastructure seems to have a few bugs...
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14:35:34 <qball> now slap me silly, he has been coding for 25 years
14:35:46 <hylje> Alberth: synchronization is no easy business
14:35:46 * qball wants more pointless info
14:36:15 * LordAzamath slaps qball harder
14:36:27 * qball again, but a bit to the right
14:38:02 <qball> *grrmblll* liboil is still causing crashes
14:38:21 <qball> why can't they correctly vectorize it.
14:38:25 <LordAzamath> for all of you who don't know, Zephyris made another post, which includes grfs for 8bpp graphics replacement
14:39:28 <qball> would be cool if they are allreplaced
14:39:34 <qball> now if we move to 32bit too
14:40:53 <LordAzamath> Well, 32bpp goes forward too
14:41:08 <LordAzamath> Wacki and Ben_Robbins_ are modeling
14:41:25 <qball> it was moving 3 years ago too
14:41:28 <LordAzamath> I have done few thigs too..
14:41:47 <LordAzamath> Yes, but now you actually can play with it
14:41:55 <qball> I played it 3 years too
14:42:00 <qball> there was a patch to run 32bit openttd
14:42:38 <qball> ut the images on th forums look great
14:42:40 <LordAzamath> you can do it now too..it'sin trunk
14:42:40 <qball> and there should be alot now
14:43:07 <LordAzamath> depends what is alot
14:43:14 <qball> I've seen on the forum more then is on the wiki
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14:43:59 <LordAzamath> but the format was changed...inAugust?
14:44:12 <LordAzamath> so there is a hell lot work to do more
14:44:25 <LordAzamath> but now it's in trunk
14:44:38 <LordAzamath> but extra zooms are eliminated
14:45:00 <LordAzamath> BUT I heard thatGeekToo is working on a patch that allows those agian w/o any problems
14:45:13 <qball> I wish I had time to help
14:45:40 <LordAzamath> what about y power plant :D
14:45:57 <LordAzamath> or transmitter, or tropical bank
14:46:11 <LordAzamath> I gave you the wiki link
14:46:25 <qball> wacki is still doing some very fancy stuff
14:46:59 <Olsson> Alberth: Interesting. Thanks for your detailed answers :)
14:48:16 <qball> now if there was some good days to fix time in the game.. in Real life stations can easily have 700 trains/day.. in openttd it takes a train 3 days to just enter the station
14:50:32 <LordAzamath> try daylenght patch
14:51:49 <qball> can I have a normal 18 track station with 700 trains leaving a day
14:52:37 <LordAzamath> hmm, I now relised I'm logged in twice..LA(lord) is in too. I prbably forgot to logout after I left home
14:53:10 <LordAzamath> qball, don't know, 700 trains can be difficult
14:53:39 <LordAzamath> btw how many trains do you have on your games usually anyway
14:53:42 <qball> bah, how can I build a replica of my local station
14:54:11 <qball> depends.. between 125-400
14:54:12 <LordAzamath> this is a transportation game not simulator..!
14:54:15 <glx> LordAzamath: I can kick you rghost if you want :)
14:54:35 <qball> but 3 days to enter a station :-/
14:54:48 <LordAzamath> don't kick LA(lord), I have the conversation saved there when I return
14:55:52 <LordAzamath> I'm actually in my neighbours apartment right now, "watching" her son
14:56:05 <LordAzamath> so not very far away
14:58:35 <pavel1269> Sacro: whats difference between your Daylength patch and chrisicom ones?
14:59:54 <Wolf01> sacro's is one line of code
15:00:58 <pavel1269> and what does it do?
15:01:20 <pavel1269> it slows down everything?
15:01:35 <pavel1269> not just time like chrisicom's?
15:02:07 <LordAzamath> but slow motion isn't good, is it?
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15:02:39 <Wolf01> chrissicom's is based on my patch, which handles all the things: vehicles running cost, economy, industry production...
15:03:12 <Wolf01> and the legnth is configurable
15:03:29 <pavel1269> i hate when for example mine have 5000tons/month i don't know then if good/poor :)
15:04:01 <pavel1269> Wolf01: and your daylength patch? it's the same?
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15:07:06 <pavel1269> anyone here understand in-game sprites? :)
15:10:17 <LordAzamath> depends what you mean pavel..
15:10:43 <pavel1269> i want to use same others signals ..
15:10:56 <pavel1269> they are at openttdw.grf
15:11:24 <pavel1269> but ... i dont understand work with sprites atm :-/
15:11:59 <glx> use an action 05 newgrf for signals
15:12:10 <pavel1269> i have 4. type os signal :)
15:13:23 <pavel1269> and i found some unused signals in-game but by mistake and i dont know how to draw them atm
15:13:42 <DaleStan> Normal, entrance sig, exit sig and combo-sig, right? And no semaphores?
15:15:11 <pavel1269> rail_cmd.cpp line 1429 i hope, there is how signals are drawn :X
15:15:39 <pavel1269> hard to describe waht i want :-/
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15:20:29 <LordAzamath> I think that there is no need to draw all new houses for 88bpp gfx replacement.. So what building set would you suggest guys.. I'm thinking of ttrs, but you?
15:21:08 <pavel1269> glx: so that not drawn-signals are PBS ones?
15:21:50 <pavel1269> no-other signals? :/
15:22:29 <LordAzamath> ofcourse pavel, you can make a patch which implements PBS, then those signals would be in use again :D
15:22:30 <pavel1269> so if i want graphic for my new signal, i must create support for them? :(
15:22:54 <pavel1269> LordAzamath: atm i am working on programmable signal
15:23:58 <LordAzamath> but anyone to answer my question?
15:24:00 <qball> so I can rule openttd once again
15:24:11 <pavel1269> what ":)" does mean? :P
15:24:51 * LordAzamath thinks that after pavel has completed prog signals, he will take PBS as next one
15:25:13 <pavel1269> i am missing just GUI and graphic :)
15:26:45 <pavel1269> btw "16:24 * LordAzamath thinks that after pavel has completed prog signals, he will take PBS as next one" --- I or you will take that PBS? :))
15:26:53 <LordAzamath> pavel if you say what do you want I can draw them to you, but I'm not at home, so somewhere later
15:27:03 <LordAzamath> I'm artist and player, not coder
15:27:14 <LordAzamath> I even can't get along with php
15:27:17 <pavel1269> i don't think i can handle this
15:28:21 <LordAzamath> hmm..I can go home at 40mins approx :)
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15:29:09 <pavel1269> draw graphic .. that's cool, but i need number of them in game so i could draw them :P
15:29:46 <LordAzamath> hmm..don't get it..
15:29:53 <LordAzamath> so you HAVE sprites?
15:30:27 <pavel1269> i dont have anything where sound sth like "srpite" "draw" :)
15:31:04 <LordAzamath> so you lack sprites (in grf) and code how to draw them in-game?
15:31:32 <LordAzamath> then I can't help you..:(
15:31:56 <pavel1269> only thing which will help me atm is some SpriteID to draw, that i can handle :P
15:34:12 <LordAzamath> something to do with this?
15:36:18 <pavel1269> but i am thinking about reworking that
15:36:26 <pavel1269> and make it simple like in TTDP ... every signal should be programmed?
15:40:24 * LordAzamath didn't get any answer about possible replacements for town buildings :(
15:40:48 <pavel1269> you mean that about 88bpp? :D
15:41:22 <pavel1269> i thought best now is 32bpp
15:41:52 <LordAzamath> If that makes you answer...
15:42:08 <Rubidium_> but with all the magic you'll only see 24bpp
15:42:11 <pavel1269> LordAzamath: i say, redraw
15:43:05 <LordAzamath> but I can't bother Zephyris too much because he has done so much by himself too
15:43:17 <LordAzamath> And myslef, well I could try...
15:43:18 <Rubidium_> LordAzamath: 24 bits colours + 8 bits alpha channel + 8 bits remapping for company colours
15:44:07 <pavel1269> 8bits for company colors ...
15:44:25 <pavel1269> will be possible in MP 2^8 companies? :P
15:44:38 <hylje> pavel1269: i think its for different hues of the company colors
15:45:01 * pavel1269 really dont understand anything about graphic :)
15:45:35 <LordAzamath> well, 8 different colours, each one has 8 shades from light to dark
15:45:57 <pavel1269> and 8shades to oher colors? :P
15:46:00 <LordAzamath> represented in ttd palette by bleu colours and remapped
15:47:16 <pavel1269> 8colors and 8shades = 6bits :)
15:48:13 <pavel1269> you need 8*8 combinations which is 2^6 :)
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15:49:17 <LordAzamath> the whole 8bpp palette is supported by 32bpp blitter
15:49:30 <LordAzamath> so 32bpp + default
15:50:50 <Gonozal_VIII> isn't 8bpp palette a part of the 32bpp palette?
15:51:10 <LordAzamath> e.g 0000ff ->blue
15:51:16 <LordAzamath> has to be defined twice
15:51:37 <LordAzamath> when you have it in 32bpp images, it would be blue
15:51:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
15:51:55 <LordAzamath> with remapping it should be transparetn
15:52:30 <LordAzamath> like 1098.png is default 32bpp and 1098m.png is for remapping
15:52:54 <pavel1269> whts he talking about :D
15:53:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
15:53:12 <LordAzamath> 1098 is applied woth std 32bpp and 1098m.png is applied with 8bpp palette
15:53:34 <LordAzamath> I'm not clear expressing myself I know pavel
15:54:01 <Gonozal_VIII> well, i don't know the 32bpp palette...
15:54:21 <LordAzamath> 32bpp isn't indexed
15:55:15 <Gonozal_VIII> how do action colours work then :S
15:57:06 <Gonozal_VIII> no, you're not here
15:57:23 <pavel1269> :D that's right, you are not here :D
15:57:49 <LA[lord]> yes, I'm at my home now
15:58:23 <LA[lord]> I was in my neighbours' just
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16:00:11 <LA[lord]> gonozal_viii, if you have 32bpp image, with what you want action colours, you have to remap it
16:00:26 <LA[lord]> with same-named image, ending with m
16:00:57 <Gonozal_VIII> that uses the same action colours as 8bpp?
16:01:58 <LA[lord]> no actually don't look ther
16:02:35 <LA[lord]> geektoo's hereford bus
16:03:00 <Gonozal_VIII> i'll just stop thinking about it :D
16:03:10 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, that works fine
16:03:44 <LA[lord]> it has company colours remapped..., but you won't think of it anymore :D
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16:19:46 <LA[lord]> ok, time for another alien blood :D
16:22:48 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm lighting is odd
16:24:04 <Gonozal_VIII> the roof... sun is parallel lighting, the roof is parallel... should have same light everywhere
16:27:14 <Gonozal_VIII> doors would be nice :-)
16:27:30 <Gonozal_VIII> that open when a vehicle wants to enter or leave
16:28:06 <LA[lord]> that needs extra code
16:28:24 <Gonozal_VIII> i think somebody did that once
16:28:51 <Gonozal_VIII> does anyone karrr?
16:29:08 <Noldo> managed to tab in to wrong window
16:29:24 <Noldo> then tried to run the last command on the one I thought I was in
16:31:12 <Gonozal_VIII> would be very nice to have two doors and when a vehicle enters or leaves, one of the doors opens to let it through :-)
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16:49:06 <Gonozal_VIII> at night it's colder than outside
16:54:29 * murray whistles to Sawyer's Tune
17:09:01 <LA[lord]> one question...why is "SAC's stolen trees" named "stolen"?
17:09:23 <pavel1269> maybye they're stolen from somewhere :)
17:10:32 <LA[lord]> yes, but I don't want it
17:10:44 <LA[lord]> I want them to be not stolen :D
17:11:09 <Gonozal_VIII> give them back :P
17:12:25 <LA[lord]> hmm...I just read, Graphics by SAC, coded by Aegir, who has no shame
17:12:44 <LA[lord]> but what does SAC think of this?
17:12:53 <LA[lord]> if they are stolen from him
17:12:58 <pavel1269> well, that trees just rock
17:13:10 <pavel1269> i think he stole them from some game
17:14:07 <Gonozal_VIII> must be fake, there are no females on the intarweb
17:14:33 <SpComb> <oblig xkcd reference>
17:15:20 <SpComb> <confused repeat of xkcd reference>
17:15:49 * pavel1269 wonders what's happening to this channel
17:16:59 * pavel1269 is almost happy, that he doesn't speak english good enought to understand that
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17:23:24 <LA[lord]> aanyway, I just read a topic of INFRA landscape, and found out that SAC left, so it's not good
17:23:44 <LA[lord]> which means that those beautiful trees have to be redrawn
17:24:58 <Gonozal_VIII> i drew some trees.. wanted to make an austrian treeset
17:25:36 <alexboom> err would anyone be so kind to help me to solve my problem with tram/truck newgrf incompatibility?
17:25:52 <alexboom> i'm using the long vehicle set, but i'm unable to get trucks if i take a tram set
17:26:19 <alexboom> i'd love using the generic tramset, but the operation costs are set too high to make any benefits
17:26:25 <pavel1269> have you tryed to change their place at newgrf window to each other?
17:26:29 <pavel1269> sometimes it helsp :)
17:27:15 <alexboom> yep, either the trams disappear, or the truck disappear, or the whole long vehicle set is disabled
17:27:42 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, lv4 changes costs for all rvs
17:27:50 <alexboom> ah, the german tramset seems to work correctly with trucks
17:28:00 <Gonozal_VIII> serbian trams work fine
17:30:13 <alexboom> and could anyone explain me why the generic tramset is so expensive to use?
17:30:41 <Gonozal_VIII> [18:27:41] Gonozal_VIII: yes, lv4 changes costs for all rvs
17:32:46 <Noldo> the current trunk seems to assert right after starting
17:33:38 <alexboom> ak thanks Gonozal_VIII i did not understand the "lv4" thingy the first time :p
17:34:25 <Gonozal_VIII> it disables all other rvs and changes the cost multiplier
17:35:37 <pavel1269> i don't like much sets which changes "whole game settings
17:35:39 <Gonozal_VIII> so rv grfs before that in the list won't be used and after that will be more expensive than intended
17:35:55 <alexboom> so err which rv set is the best according to you???
17:36:14 <Gonozal_VIII> i use rv4 and serbian trams
17:36:27 <pavel1269> i use in-game rv and CStrams :)
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17:38:47 <LA[lord]> aarggh..I need skidd :(
17:40:11 <Gonozal_VIII> how much do you pay?
17:40:13 <alexboom> thanks a lot for your help
17:40:33 <Gonozal_VIII> i'll see if i have some skidds here
17:41:52 <Gonozal_VIII> could offer you a skidd11 as good as new
17:41:57 <LA[lord]> gonozal, I need a specific kind of skidd
17:42:04 <LA[lord]> I think 13 fits better
17:42:40 <Gonozal_VIII> oh model #13... they hardly build them anymore
17:42:56 <LA[lord]> what about special edition?
17:44:11 <Gonozal_VIII> after there were some severe problems with that model it's illegal now in most countries
17:44:24 <LA[lord]> I could reward the producer of this greatly
17:45:40 <LA[lord]> gonozal, I'm over the law
17:45:41 <Gonozal_VIII> we should meet in the dark alley behind the skidd factory at midnight... come alone and unarmed
17:46:08 * LA[lord] starts organizing guys together + snipers on the roof
17:46:29 <LA[lord]> or PayPal to orudge's account
17:46:51 <pavel1269> no, i will give ya mine ;)
17:48:03 <LA[lord]> this is public line, we should discuss such things here
17:48:21 * Gonozal_VIII hopes that lord doesn't find out that he wants to sell him a skidd15 in disguise
17:51:31 * LA[lord] hopes Gonozal_VIII doesn't notice that the greens he'll get are marked...
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17:57:46 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 46 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I mean... it should be that simple but since you have problems I guess it's a bit more complex than that
18:01:21 <skidd13> LA[lord]: your master arises (after reading the IRC logs :D )
18:11:55 <LA[lord]> ..and gonozal just missed a good deal
18:12:46 <LA[lord]> I got the ORIGINAL exemplar
18:20:37 <pavel1269> question ... is "(a & b) == 0" and "(a == !b)" the same?
18:21:19 <Gonozal_VIII> could be both false
18:22:43 <Gonozal_VIII> depends on how & is used^^
18:22:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> depends on bitwise vs. logical
18:23:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> bitwise not is ~
18:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> but even then, they are not the same
18:24:08 <Rubidium_> pavel1269: fill in 1 and 2
18:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> if a==0 and b==0, then the first expression is true, and the second is false
18:25:16 <pavel1269> (01 & 10) == 00 and 01 == !/~ 10 is true too
18:25:53 <Rubidium_> pavel1269: only in 2 bit logic
18:26:10 <Rubidium_> so only for bitwise in 2 bit logic
18:26:43 <pavel1269> is uint bitwise? :)
18:27:03 <Rubidium_> uint is at least 32 bits 'wide'
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18:27:34 <pavel1269> i am trying to figure out how one piece of code works :)
18:27:35 <Rubidium_> so ~0 = pow(2, 32) - 1
18:28:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> (a&b)==0 checks wether there are common bits set
18:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> a=~b checks wether all bits are inverted
18:28:48 <pavel1269> ( ((a & b) == 0) && (a == ~b) ) - true? :) a is byte and b is uint
18:29:15 <pavel1269> ty Rubidium_: that explained it to me
18:30:17 <pavel1269> so .. b=1111 but ~b = 111111111111111111111111111110000 ? :)
18:32:34 <Draakon> hmm wierd, i got a strange problem here: i got some patches installed, compiled successfully, and after some play time, one patch stops working as it should and that patch option disseapears from configure patches window :S
18:33:14 <pavel1269> which patch is that?
18:33:26 <Draakon> even after recompiling option doesnt appear
18:33:56 <Rubidium_> applying multiple patches and 'succeeding' compilation doesn't mean that it works
18:34:19 <Draakon> i have these patches: Copy&paste, No hill and curve slowdown, No random closure and opening of industries, No local authority, No airchrashes
18:34:21 <Rubidium_> pavel1269: yes, or 60 1s and 4 0s on 64 bits
18:35:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> bit-magic is a wonderful thing for a beginner ;)
18:35:10 <Draakon> yes i know but still why this thing is happening
18:36:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
18:36:58 <Gonozal_VIII> Copy&paste <-- nice, No hill and curve slowdown <-- naah, No random closure and opening of industries <-- nice, No local authority <-- naah , No airchrashes <-- naah
18:37:33 <pavel1269> Draakon: he commented you patches :)
18:37:52 <Frostregen> is there a place where i can find the current savegame version? (the highest value used in SDT_COND())
18:38:05 <ln-> Draakon: nope, i've got a proper font on my terminal.
18:38:09 <Draakon> k but still why this is happening to me?
18:38:11 <Bjarni> when who is Sir Out? :)
18:38:32 <pavel1269> Draakon is sir out :) h made a vote :)
18:38:57 <Bjarni> you should type proper before hitting enter
18:39:43 <LA[lord]> one kick should do the trick I guess :D
18:39:44 <pavel1269> thats just bugs in system ^^
18:39:49 <Bjarni> you are broken by design
18:40:13 <LA[lord]> hmm..what a poetry..kick..trick
18:40:29 <ln-> sir Bjarni: how about another vote?
18:40:33 <pavel1269> sameone should kick LA[lord], because he want to kick me :D
18:40:37 <Draakon> what about my problem?
18:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> "naah" <- this reminds me of the wiki article on false friends
18:41:08 <pavel1269> Eddi|zuHause2: that was "ahah"
18:41:11 <pv2b> hey. i've written a patch that solves the crappy share behaviour, but i want somebody more familiar with the openttd to look at it before i submit it to flyspray.
18:41:46 <LA[lord]> pavel1269> thats just bugs in system ^^> write a patch then :D
18:43:29 <Draakon> i got some patches installed, compiled successfully, and after some play time, one patch stops working as it should and that patch option disseapears from configure patches window
18:43:36 <Draakon> why nobody answers to this?
18:43:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> Draakon: no support of patched versions
18:43:59 <Rubidium_> because nobody has the faintest idea?
18:44:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you have problems with one patch, talk to the patch author
18:44:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you have problems with mixing patches... well, bad luck i suppose ;)
18:44:47 <Draakon> the thing is: how can a patch option be gone from configure patches option when it was there?
18:45:01 <Rubidium_> and when you mix patches, you become the author of the whole 'patch'
18:47:08 <Draakon> looks like i gotta repatch then
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18:58:23 <pavel1269> LA[lord]: hard to write ... but i am thinking about some check system :)
19:01:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> that sounds like a case
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19:15:44 <reto> Rubidium_: airport-replace-crash: okay, good to know that the os x stacktrace doesn't help much
19:16:08 <reto> Rubidium_: I wasn't able to reproduce it myself, thats the reason why I didn't attach a savegame
19:17:14 <pavel1269> Draakon: thats written there ... u redefined that function
19:17:47 <Draakon> im no expert in coding
19:18:13 <Frostregen> Draakon: my command_queue.cpp has only 124 lines
19:18:39 <Frostregen> did you apply the patch, without deleting the files?
19:18:56 <Frostregen> svn appends the file contents, if the file already exists
19:19:02 <Draakon> i did apply a patch but dint delete nothing
19:19:26 <Frostregen> look into the files...they should have their content twice
19:19:39 <Noldo> pv2b: what happens if the companies buy 75 % of each other and then one of them makes $1
19:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> Noldo: 1£ (2$) is the minimum unit ;)
19:20:41 <pv2b> Noldo: that's.... complicated *<:-)
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19:21:43 <Noldo> or first they buy 75% of each other, then they both make 1k of money and then they sell the shares of each other
19:22:07 <pv2b> Noldo: ok. we can model that.
19:22:30 <pv2b> a is the base company value
19:22:34 <pv2b> and A is the total company value
19:22:55 <pv2b> so A = a + 0.75B and B = b + 0.75A
19:23:41 <Noldo> let's say they both double their base value
19:23:55 <Noldo> so we don't need to use any fixed amounts
19:24:05 <pv2b> we can use fixed amounts
19:25:02 <pv2b> so, the company values go up 4 times what they would have gone up otherwise.
19:25:19 <pv2b> that's because the company acually owns itself, as opposed to being owned by anonymous shareholders somewhere else
19:27:00 <pv2b> nothing strange here really. it's the same in the current system. if you own 75% of another company you also make that money again
19:27:33 <Noldo> so after the selling, what is the value of A and B
19:28:01 <pv2b> let me make sure i have my calculations correct. just a moment.
19:32:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11723 /trunk/ (config.lib src/rail.cpp):
19:32:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: add initial support for Intel C Compiler on linux
19:32:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: silence a few warnings of ICC
19:33:37 <reto> Noldo: thats something I mentioned yesterday
19:33:48 <reto> Noldo: the company is actually owned twice
19:34:00 <reto> Noldo: once by the player, and then by share holders, if there are some
19:34:25 <reto> the patch pv2b wrote doesn't fix that, but it doesn't make it worse either
19:36:19 <pv2b> for it to "really" work, money would have to disappear when the shareholder sells his stock back
19:36:41 <pv2b> but all that happens is that he sells to a mysterious non-player charater
19:36:49 <pv2b> who isn't really a part of the game
19:37:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:38:13 <Gonozal_VIII> make it so that you can't sell unless somebody buys
19:38:28 <pv2b> to do what would be a fundamental change in game mechanics.
19:38:58 <pv2b> i just took the flawed system that exists now and patched a hole in it
19:39:42 <pv2b> the reality is that the real money is made by investors who aren't even playing the game
19:39:45 <Gonozal_VIII> bring the system down!
19:39:54 <pv2b> when you buy stock you buy it on the stock market from them
19:40:03 <pv2b> so when the company now makes more money because of owning part of another company, that's normal
19:40:13 <pv2b> because that money would otherwise go out as value to those poeple
19:40:56 <pv2b> because the money of the company isn't really "the company's" money
19:41:02 <pv2b> it's the stockholder's money
19:44:28 <pavel1269> i got it :P red is 0x15 and green is ~magic_number_of_signal
19:44:42 <pavel1269> muhahahahaha ... :D
19:57:56 <pavel1269> question: 0010 ^ 0110 = ?
20:00:44 <Sacro> pavel1269: is that XOR?
20:02:11 <pavel1269> and i really dunno whats result
20:11:09 <pavel1269> so byte a = 11; b = a ^ (~a); b == 11? :)
20:11:13 <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: sure about that?
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20:12:49 <Gonozal_VIII> a ^ ~a is always 11?
20:12:51 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
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20:16:22 <Gonozal_VIII> a ^ ~a == ~0 :-)
20:35:02 <peter__> are you just trying out random things or something?
20:35:56 <pavel1269> peter__: no this is how signals works atm :)
20:37:24 <ln-> Bjarni: sir, how about a new OSX-specific vote, sir?
20:49:31 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
20:53:18 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
20:53:28 <Sacro> DorpsGek: quite possibly
20:53:32 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
20:53:35 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
20:54:08 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
20:54:10 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (line 1)
20:54:12 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
20:54:23 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
20:54:27 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: Error: invalid syntax (line 1)
20:54:35 <Rubidium_> it doesn't do bitmath
20:55:23 <pavel1269> Rubidium_: he sould :P
20:57:51 <glx> and you can talk to the bot in private
20:58:20 <glx> instead "spaming" the chan
20:58:52 <Gonozal_VIII> spam, spam, spam, bacon and spam
20:59:45 <Sacro> Lobster thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce garnished with truffle paté, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam
21:00:55 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: Error: invalid syntax (line 1)
21:01:53 <pavel1269> @calc 2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2
21:01:53 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
21:02:13 <LA[lord]> ham, ham, bacon and sausage
21:02:25 <DorpsGek> Gonozal_VIII: 18446744073709551616
21:02:43 <DorpsGek> Sacro: 18446744073709551616
21:03:00 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (line 1)
21:03:07 <DorpsGek> Sacro: 18446744073709551616
21:03:20 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: 680564733841876926926749214863536422912
21:03:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> and just one little wafer ;)
21:03:28 <DorpsGek> reto: Error: invalid syntax (line 1)
21:03:29 <Sacro> how can 2**64 == 2**64 + 1
21:03:40 <LA[lord]> @calc 18446744073709551616+1
21:03:40 <DorpsGek> LA[lord]: 18446744073699999744
21:03:41 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: a wafer thin mint?
21:03:52 <DorpsGek> reto: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
21:04:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't know the exact original phrase+
21:04:05 <DorpsGek> reto: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
21:04:10 <reto> bah I think this thing is safe
21:04:33 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: 36893488147419103232
21:04:36 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
21:04:37 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
21:04:39 <joosa> joosa: 2.99792458e8 m/s = 2.9979246e+08 m / s
21:05:00 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
21:05:08 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
21:05:10 <DorpsGek> joosa: Error: 'c' is not a defined function.
21:05:14 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: 18446744073709551616
21:05:17 <DorpsGek> reto: Error: 'exit' is not a defined function.
21:05:20 <Rubidium_> stop playing with the bot
21:05:44 <pavel1269> Rubidium_: sir, yes sir
21:06:03 <joosa> joosa: c = 299792.46 km/s
21:06:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> <pavel1269> bot is broken <- no, it's standard computer math, in floating point calculus, there is a number "eps" for which 1+eps == 1
21:06:40 <LA[lord]> <LA[lord]> @calc 18446744073709551616+1
21:06:42 <LA[lord]> <DorpsGek> LA[lord]: 18446744073699999744
21:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> so 2^64*(1+eps) = 2^64
21:06:43 <LA[lord]> but what about this?
21:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> and it may well be that 2^64*eps > 1
21:07:16 <pavel1269> you copied that value which isnt exact
21:08:07 <joosa> joosa: calc18446744073709551616+D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D1
21:08:17 <joosa> joosa: calc 18446744073709551616+1
21:08:34 <LA[lord]> pavel, I just checked it is correct 2ˇ64
21:08:48 <joosa> joos: calc 1.8446744e+19 +1
21:08:54 <joosa> joosa: calc 1.8446744e+19 +1
21:09:11 <joosa> joosa: calc 1.8446744e+19 -> 2^64
21:09:11 <joosa> joosa: 1.8446744e+19 = 1 * 2^64 = (1 / 1) * 2^64
21:09:17 <LA[lord]> joosa, please stop spam, it's not funny anymore
21:09:38 <joosa> as funny as your bot :)
21:10:27 <Rubidium_> LA[lord]: just /ignore joosa
21:11:17 <joosa> that's a bit sensitive, eh :)
21:13:15 <pavel1269> bot in pm dont use *10**x
21:19:47 <joosa> dunno why you got offended, but I'm sorry nonetheless
21:20:11 <pavel1269> my last try here at least today i swear :)
21:20:26 <pavel1269> @calc (((0.119874657+1+19**138*5+12**8*0.11665187)*2**428*(0.1/(2**190))*2**128))+(((0.119874657+1+19**128*5+12**8*0.11687)*2**408*(0.1/(2**250))*2**128)/2**128)
21:20:26 <DorpsGek> pavel1269: 22077268975293935045040910945539747478071205217806623289358828035204074600683502537078742987578372109668993893075499887648512281056380608338829213782858767974932810503517907613780146443767858758356666033722763090291853027184001159165917478373612497819457666585772214632038054468874403840
21:20:48 <joosa> compare it with joosa: calc :)
21:21:18 <joosa> it will only show a boring 23843234e+34 result
21:21:56 <pavel1269> i just wonder, why it show me now whole number :)
21:22:46 <joosa> in that it can show such large numbers :P
21:22:58 <pavel1269> and i dont see float point ... :)
21:23:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> note that IRC messages are trunkated
21:23:22 <joosa> that was not that long I think
21:23:46 <pavel1269> sure? do you see that 3lines of number? :))
21:24:15 <joosa> dunno about this network, but others have bigger limits
21:24:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> the irc standard says 512 bytes i believe
21:25:02 <peter__> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
21:25:03 <peter__> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
21:25:03 <peter__> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
21:25:10 <peter__> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
21:25:11 <joosa> ok, it was the whole message
21:25:15 <peter__> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
21:25:20 <peter__> that wasn't meant to happen :p
21:25:31 <joosa> proved the point tho :)
21:27:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: but i'm not using CDE either
21:28:19 <dih> peter__ thanks for spaming
21:29:43 * Sacro hits the snooze button on peter__
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21:30:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc
21:32:14 * dih hopes peter__ snoozes for more than just 5 mins
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21:34:35 <LA[lord]> <joosa> "dunno why you got offended, but I'm sorry nonetheless" I didn't get offended but I'm just tired a little bit..
21:35:04 <joosa> that's ok :) I got a bit carried away
21:36:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11724 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: make it impossible (for users) to circumvent the length checking of the NewGRF 'allow wagon attach' callback by moving several wagons at a time.
21:36:15 <Bjarni> <ln-> Bjarni: sir, how about a new OSX-specific vote, sir? <--- sure... "What is the best OS?" (only mac users are allowed to vote)
21:36:29 <Bjarni> or maybe you meant some other question ;)
21:37:23 <LA[lord]> ok..I now officially declare...sleepiness
21:39:08 <Bjarni> do you think I'm some sort of phone operator that you can call all night if you like?
21:39:33 <Gonozal_VIII> you're a girl? :D
21:40:22 <Bjarni> maybe it wouldn't be so bad after all
21:40:34 <Bjarni> I mean... it would allow more boobs in here
21:40:45 <pavel1269> you want get pregnant or what ^^
21:40:52 <Bjarni> but it might also make boobs less interesting
21:41:29 <Bjarni> pavel1269: that's the first time that I have been asked that question
21:41:41 <Bjarni> and I don't plan to be asked again :P
21:42:18 <Rubidium_> having said that, Bjarni assumes a similar question very soon
21:42:21 <Gonozal_VIII> but how can you be sure?
21:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are too many 2nd level industries on the map...
21:43:59 <Bjarni> the next person to ask me will be banned
21:44:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> pavel1269: 2nd level is after 1st level
21:44:34 * pavel1269 delets note to ask something Bjarni tomorow :D
21:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> first level industries are producing industires (mines, farms, forests)
21:45:04 <Gonozal_VIII> but you can only do that after it happened ;-)
21:45:07 <pavel1269> 2nd factory 3rd powerplant?
21:45:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> second level industries are manufacturing industries (fatories, refineries, etc.)
21:45:22 <Bjarni> pv2b: you can read what those weirdos asked me a moment ago
21:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> 3rd level depends on your kind of definition
21:45:55 <pv2b> Bjarni: also, one thing i just realised. why to people say putting stuff in ~/Library is "complicated"?
21:46:15 <pavel1269> pv2b: maybye, cos it's complicated? :)
21:46:18 <Bjarni> why is it complicated?
21:46:27 <pv2b> it's not windows, so it's not like it's behind some huge "here be dragons" sign
21:46:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> in scientific context, 3rd level is when you don't actually produce anything, but rather sell your "work force"
21:47:10 <pv2b> Bjarni: it isn't complicated. people claim it is though
21:47:16 <pv2b> in that forum thread on where openttd files should go
21:47:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> i.e. you provide services
21:47:39 <pavel1269> pv2b: where i have that big dragon? :)
21:48:14 <pv2b> placing it somewhere like ~/.openttd on mac -- now *that* would be complicated *<:-)
21:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> in TTD context, 3rd level should rather refer to the "distributing" part of the chain, i.e. commercial town buildings that accept goods
21:48:31 <Rubidium_> pv2b: actually, that's simple
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21:48:39 <Bjarni> I fear that if we place everything in ~/Library then people can't find their savegames anymore and this will cause poor bug reports
21:48:49 <pv2b> Rubidium_: .files are hidden in the finder by default on mac.
21:48:50 <reto> hmm is there an easy way to override the 'authority doesnt allow you to build another airport' ?
21:48:58 <pv2b> Bjarni: which is why savegames should be in ~/Documents
21:49:02 <pavel1269> reto: patch or trees :)
21:49:04 <reto> I'd like to build another one, quite far away from the city
21:49:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you generalise that to "industries who only accept but not produce", then power plant falls into that category
21:49:11 <Bjarni> damn.... some spammer figured out how to penetrate my spam filter today
21:49:17 <Gonozal_VIII> yes reto, destroy one of the existing airports
21:49:24 <Bjarni> it usually picks up all spam but it failed on like 10 mails today :(
21:49:24 <pv2b> Bjarni: "penetrate" your "spam filter".
21:49:25 <reto> Gonozal_VIII: I need them :) they are money makers
21:49:52 <reto> Gonozal_VIII: I can understand that they don't awnt another airport right next to the city, but outside :)
21:49:56 <Rubidium_> pv2b: but savegames are configuration files too ;)
21:50:00 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: You could argue that the Arctic printing works is 3rd level
21:50:05 <pv2b> Rubidium_: no, savegames are documents
21:50:21 <pv2b> Rubidium_: unless you want to say that an .rtf is a config file
21:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> Prof_Frink: i don't play a lot of arctic ;)
21:50:40 <Rubidium_> well... what distinguishes a .cfg from a .txt?
21:50:44 <Rubidium_> only the extension?
21:50:45 <Bjarni> <pv2b> Bjarni: which is why savegames should be in ~/Documents <--- so we save savegames in Documents and we make it possible to read grf files from there (in addition to some new location) then what is the new stuff about your idea?
21:50:49 <pv2b> Rubidium_: the purpose of the file.
21:51:06 <Rubidium_> the purpose of a savegame is to store settings amongst some other things
21:51:15 <pv2b> Bjarni: nothing really. except people shouldnt be able to put grfs there, but in Library
21:51:21 <Rubidium_> same as openttd.cfg
21:51:46 <Bjarni> why shouldn't we at least check for a data dir in ~/Documents/OpenTTD?
21:52:08 <pv2b> pfft... well... you *could* but it's just yet another place to check in
21:52:14 <pv2b> and the wrong place t oo
21:52:15 <Rubidium_> Bjarni: because that doesn't complicate the code
21:52:40 <Rubidium_> we should make as much exceptions as possible for OSX
21:53:00 <pv2b> it should check, in the following order, current directory, ~/Library/Application Support/OpenTTD, /Library/Application Support/OpenTTD, then inside the bundle.
21:53:04 <Bjarni> <pv2b> Bjarni: "penetrate" your "spam filter". <-- I wonder if this question belongs to the category that was promised a ban
21:53:50 <pv2b> Bjarni: it wasn't a question, to be technical, and hey, you're the one with the lively imagination.
21:54:15 <Rubidium_> current directory is 99% of the time /
21:54:29 * Prof_Frink attacks Bjarni with a spam javelin
21:54:41 <pv2b> Rubidium_: i believe for bundles on os x, current directory is the directory the bundle is in
21:54:49 <Bjarni> current directory should be read as the directory the bundle is inside
21:54:49 <pv2b> Rubidium_: i can check if you want... build a quick project in xcode
21:55:11 <Bjarni> if we actually read the current dir when the game is opened by double clicking in finder then we get "/"
21:55:27 <pv2b> Bjarni: really? wow. i didn't expect that.
21:55:50 <Bjarni> we have a piece of code to give us the right directory
21:56:52 <Bjarni> <Rubidium_> we should make as much exceptions as possible for OSX <-- I will prefer not to... not only do I find this a bit useless to code I also find it a waste of time to maintain
21:57:00 <Bjarni> the current code just works
21:57:12 <Rubidium_> yeah, but in that case I can assign more bugs to you ;)
21:57:24 <Rubidium_> isn't that what you wanted when you made the poll?
21:57:28 <pv2b> the only thing t hat needs to be added to the current code really to add a compile time option for where to place savegames
21:57:35 <pv2b> or hell, no, a configuration option
21:57:44 <pv2b> it should be user-settable
21:57:57 <Rubidium_> pv2b: there is a configuration option
21:57:59 <pv2b> then it's just a question of diffferent defaults.
21:58:14 <pv2b> different default openttd.cfg files depending on the platform. which i believe is already kinda done.
21:58:32 <Rubidium_> the cfgs are default
21:58:38 <Rubidium_> the locations at least
21:58:45 <Bjarni> I don't get this... if we end up with ~/Documents/OpenTTD then why all this?
21:59:02 <pv2b> because grfs shouldn't be in there *<:-)
21:59:02 <ln-> you aren't seriously considering allowing the users to decide where to place the stuff on mac?
21:59:29 <pv2b> documents/openttd is fine, but the config file and other such data files should not be in there.
21:59:49 * Bjarni is considering using his power as the only mac user with svn access to declare "this is the solution... live with it"
22:00:04 <Bjarni> it's a really simple thing that you are making really complicated
22:00:16 <pv2b> what i'm suggesting isn't complicated, is it?
22:00:38 <pv2b> how? changing the default location for savegames is hard?
22:01:04 <Rubidium_> pv2b: currently it is the case that it places savegames where the configuration file is.
22:01:07 <Bjarni> because you want savegames to be somewhere different from grf files even though the readme (which is meant to work on all OSes) states that they are in the same dir
22:01:32 <Rubidium_> the major advantage of this is the fact that one can 'force' OpenTTD to place *all* files in the installation directory
22:01:32 <ln-> you don't have write access to the readme?
22:01:34 <dih> he is not blabbleing on about that - still, is he?
22:01:36 <pv2b> Bjarni: ah, there's a new argument i haven't heard before that's at least interesting.
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22:01:45 <Bjarni> so we will end up with "this is how to do it and oh btw pc2b liked us to make it different on OSX for no technical reason whatsoever"
22:02:01 <Rubidium_> if you are forcing someone to always use ~/Documents/OpenTTD for savegames that is not possible anymore
22:02:02 <pv2b> actually, i think that it how it should be on all platforms.
22:02:24 <dih> Bjarni: i do have to appologise
22:02:24 <Bjarni> I'm not changing any path stuff on windows
22:02:51 <dih> because i brought this up
22:03:06 <dih> and because one kid in paticular is still going on about it
22:03:54 <dih> who is not accepting the fact that the poll is about the OpenTTD directory that is currently stored in ~/Documents and not it's subdirectories
22:04:12 <pv2b> not a single person wants to have everything in ~/Documents
22:04:27 <pavel1269> that should be a great mess :)
22:04:28 <pv2b> i can live with everything in ~/Library. whatever.
22:04:36 <Bjarni> one guy posted that he wants it in Documents yet nobody voted that
22:04:45 <reto> what about ~/Games *duck&cover* :)
22:05:19 <Rubidium_> pv2b: what is the location of 'shared files' that is writable for everyone?
22:05:27 <dih> Bjarni - can we not just delete the post, or close it with the words "accept the developers choice, if you dont like it, compile it yourselves"
22:05:53 <pavel1269> no lock, but idea, yes :P
22:06:25 <pv2b> Rubidium_: the closest is /Library/Application Support, but it's not writable by "everyone". however, standard users as configured by osx at least in a singleuser setup let users write tehre
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22:06:50 <pv2b> that can be changed using a simple chmod though.
22:07:04 <Sacro> ~/OpenTTD sounds good to me
22:07:15 <Rubidium_> ah well... then you can debate as long about this 'issue', but it can't be solved on OSX because the hs.dat should be shared between users ;)
22:07:44 <pv2b> Rubidium_: yeah, you can. just put hs.dat in /Library and chmod it appropriately.
22:08:57 <Sacro> stdafx.h line 177 makes no sense
22:09:17 <ln-> Sacro: ~/OpenTTD is simply wrong
22:09:22 <pv2b> dih: he's talking about global highscores.
22:10:18 <pv2b> Sacro: makes sense to me.
22:10:27 <pv2b> Sacro: if 32-bit windows and not 64-bit windows.
22:10:28 <Bjarni> <Sacro> ~/OpenTTD sounds good to me <-- of all the suggesting that I have heard about this issue this one just got the price as being the worst
22:10:49 <pv2b> Bjarni: it's less bad than ~/Documents/OpenTTD *<:-)
22:10:59 <Sacro> /* This is needed to zlib uses the stdcall calling convention on visual studio */
22:11:01 <reto> isn't there already a documents/openttd?
22:11:07 <Sacro> that "to" should be "if" or "so"
22:11:09 <Rubidium_> 64 bits Windows has WIN32 defined (WoW64)
22:11:34 <pv2b> Rubidium_: really? *that* makes no sense.
22:11:36 <Bjarni> reto: all this started when *somebody* didn't like the way it currently works (Using the documents dir)
22:11:58 <Rubidium_> pv2b: it's Microsoft, which is the reason it makes sense
22:12:29 <reto> well... people prefer to keep the decouments folder clean
22:12:49 <Bjarni> but we have to place the files somewhere
22:12:59 * reto would would for ~/Library I think
22:13:41 <Rubidium_> yeah... placing savegames in library... that's where people would go looking
22:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> well... _I_ think "documents" makes the most sense for savegames and screenshots, "library" for grfs
22:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i'm not on OS X
22:14:40 <dih> Bjarni: make a desicion on this location think (move or no move) just so it's over and done with
22:14:47 <reto> Docuemnts is just to visible for a openttd save game
22:15:01 <pv2b> place everything in library.
22:15:07 <pv2b> if the user cant find savegames he's an idiot
22:15:08 <reto> and yes, usually people expect preference in Library.. and savegames.. well
22:15:12 <Bjarni> and in 5 minutes we will all know if I ended up coding it right
22:15:13 <pv2b> he can just press save and press .. and see where it is
22:15:34 <pv2b> it's the same thing with everytihng, if people save stuff without checking *where* they save stuff it's their problem
22:15:41 <Rubidium_> maybe we should just place everything in the application bundle under 'savegames'
22:15:52 <pv2b> Rubidium_: i actually have software that does stuff like that.
22:15:55 <Rubidium_> so there is only one 'directory'
22:15:55 <dih> and as before, Bjarni, i appologize for bringing up the hassle (mainly regarding other users arguments)
22:16:11 <dih> i did not think it would 'get out of hand' at any point of time
22:16:31 * Rubidium_ votes for pv2b making the way he envisions it without breaking anything else
22:17:23 <dih> Rubidium_: for himself or trunk/?
22:18:09 <pv2b> Rubidium_: sure, expect a patch before the new year.
22:19:14 <Rubidium_> are you somewhere with GMT-26?
22:19:20 <pv2b> sön dec 30 23:19:20 CET 2007
22:19:22 <pv2b> this is local time for me.
22:19:53 <Rubidium_> 'a' patch is simple
22:20:05 <Rubidium_> a working patch that does not break anything else is something completely different
22:20:37 <reto> Hmm.. I think I have ported a patch to svn-HEAD, should I post it in the corresponding patch thread?
22:20:54 <reto> or just mail it to the author?
22:22:25 * dih wonders what Bjarni has decided to do with the OpenTTD dir
22:22:26 <pv2b> Rubidium_: let's say this. i make a new years resolution. if i can't make a working patch that breaks *nothing* else before 00:00 january 1 2008 central european time, i'll shut up about this forever.
22:22:41 <pv2b> and i'll shut up about it now too.
22:22:59 <Bjarni> you see sometimes authors goes away and then if you keep it a secret between you and him then it's no good and will not end up in the trunk
22:23:03 <dih> pv2b: the easiest way to get someone to shutup about it for a LONG time is a ban :-P
22:23:57 <reto> Bjarni: well, it's been not in the trunk for 6 months now :)
22:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> 6 months is nothing...
22:25:15 <Rubidium_> pv2b: deal, I'll start making a mental list of possible bugs
22:25:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> reto: which patch are you talking about?
22:25:49 <pavel1269> pv2b: there is everytime chance to break sth
22:27:12 <reto> Eddi|zuHause2: found town
22:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> aha... i don't think that is a widely requested feature...
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22:30:06 <Sacro> o3>BSCMAKE: error BK1506 : cannot open file '..\objs\Win32\Release\heightmap.sbr': No such file or directory
22:31:45 <strstrep> Hi, I have a chain of stations, A, B, C, and X. I want to deliver everything from A-C to X. Is there a way to create orders such that the train picks up whatever is at A, then moves to B, picks up whatever is there, then moves to C, picks up that cargo, and then moves to X and delivers, before returning to A?
22:32:40 <Gonozal_VIII> a no order, b and c transfer and take cargo, x no order
22:32:42 <Rubidium_> as long as B and C do not accept the cargo that the train is taking it's simple
22:32:55 <strstrep> But if it's say, passengers
22:33:07 <pavel1269> go to a, go to b, go to c, go to x unload
22:33:11 <Rubidium_> then use Gonozal_VIII's method
22:33:19 <ln-> yeah, let's place the savegames inside the bundle!
22:33:30 <strstrep> With transfer and take cargo, at B and C, it will transfer the passengers off, and then reload them.
22:33:37 <ln-> that's the most compact and anti-macish way of doing it.
22:33:46 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, that's strange but it works
22:34:33 <strstrep> If I made a patch that changed the behavior so that it didn't unload the passengers first, is there a good chance that it would be accepted?
22:34:35 <pv2b> azureus did that by default for saved torrents for a while
22:34:43 <pv2b> placing downloaded files insize the app bundle
22:34:46 <Rubidium_> ln-: I'm fairly certain you can already do that
22:34:54 <pv2b> i bet they got lots of people complaining about that.
22:36:09 <strstrep> Or would that need to be a new order type? Or what?
22:37:24 <Gonozal_VIII> i can think of a situation where the current behavior could be useful
22:38:40 <Gonozal_VIII> if you have for example several stations where trains pick up with full load orders you could juse a train circling around with transfer and take cargo to balance that
22:39:59 <strstrep> If I made a patch with a new order option to make a stop non-unload (or something to that effect) is there a good chance that the patch would be accepted?
22:40:08 <strstrep> Or who should I talk to about that?
22:40:54 <pavel1269> why you jsut dont write that patch nad use it?
22:41:03 <pavel1269> and see if it will be accepted
22:41:44 <strstrep> Well, it would be useful for some applications, like #openttdcoop, and they use stock nightly builds.
22:42:04 <pavel1269> if you want it ... write it, use it
22:42:28 <Gonozal_VIII> make it public... see if people like it :-)
22:42:40 <pavel1269> yeah, look at me :)
22:43:43 <reto> why are there several versions of the same string?
22:43:51 <reto> src/town_cmd.cpp: return_cmd_error(STR_0237_TOO_CLOSE_TO_EDGE_OF_MAP);
22:43:51 <reto> src/water_cmd.cpp: return_cmd_error(STR_0002_TOO_CLOSE_TO_EDGE_OF_MAP);
22:43:57 <reto> where as the first one is currently broken
22:44:47 <Rubidium_> the strings aren't the same
22:45:55 <Rubidium_> or at least "{WHITE}Too close to edge of map" doesn't look the same as "{WHITE}...too close to edge of map"
22:47:09 <Rubidium_> the latter is probably preceded by "Can't build X..."
23:05:12 <strstrep> The GUI strings are defined in the lang/----.txt files, which are then built into the strings.h file, right?
23:08:23 <Rubidium_> english.txt to be exact
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23:10:54 <strstrep> Is there some reason that some strings have a four-digit hex code after STR_? Is that for certain legacy strings?
23:11:16 <strstrep> And new strings don't need one? Or does that have some other purpose?
23:11:22 <valhallasw> I suspect that hex code is the original code extracted from the disassembly
23:11:41 <strstrep> You guys are very helpful.
23:12:08 <ln-> Bjarni: how about another vote?
23:15:11 <ln-> Bjarni: speed versus apple-tab.
23:15:55 <pv2b> ln-: adding apple-tab in fullscreen would make openttd slower?
23:16:51 <Bjarni> you found something new to argue about :(
23:16:58 <Gonozal_VIII> drop mac support for openttd, everything will be much easier then :-)
23:17:21 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: that's not really a solution. However listening to the users could be
23:17:34 <Bjarni> stop listening to the users
23:17:52 <pv2b> Bjarni: i'm not going to argue about apple+tab support versus speed, that's a technical decision. i'm just surprised adding apple tab support *would* slow openttd down.
23:18:14 <TX> 1 question.. I have awful reputation in almost each cities? what I did wrong and what I should do? ))
23:18:19 <pv2b> it's intereting because i notice many games don't support apple+tab when they're running fullscreen, and i've always wondered why.
23:18:20 <Bjarni> oh now I know what you mean
23:18:27 <Bjarni> no we will not have a vote about this
23:18:36 <Gonozal_VIII> don't blow up trees tx
23:18:59 <Gonozal_VIII> chicks dig trees
23:19:02 <TX> and what I can do to increase reputation?
23:19:10 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: wood is nice.
23:19:47 <pv2b> around the general area of the town
23:19:56 <Gonozal_VIII> only until reputation is good
23:20:04 <Gonozal_VIII> trees won't improve more
23:20:27 <strstrep> The best way to increase reputation is to have a good passenger service in town.
23:20:28 <pv2b> if that doesn't work, destroy all the towns in the general area of the town, that will send your reputation down so far it hits a minimum (i think)... but you have lots of space to put more trees
23:20:36 <pv2b> i'm not sure if that's a bug *<;-)
23:20:38 <TX> it takes long time? (with trees)
23:20:47 <pv2b> nah, the effect should be immediate
23:20:50 <strstrep> Trees are a good quick fix, but you can only do so much.
23:20:58 <strstrep> Bribes help, but are costly and risky.
23:21:03 <Gonozal_VIII> reputation minimum should be way lower
23:21:06 <pv2b> destroy all the trees i mean
23:21:44 <TX> good passengrs communications don't work )
23:22:03 <pv2b> passenger communications work but they take a long time
23:22:06 <Gonozal_VIII> you can do almost anything with trees (good) but to clear some buildings requires very good (good through trees + a bribe)
23:22:28 <strstrep> You probably lost a lot of reputation by destroying trees or raising / lowering lots of land.
23:22:37 <pv2b> also why can't you place a through -stop for buses on town roads? that makes no sense.
23:23:03 <Gonozal_VIII> you can, there's a patch option for that
23:24:17 <Gonozal_VIII> or you can place a piece of railroad track over the road, blow it up and build the busstop then
23:25:10 <strstrep> With a full load order, do trains first unload any deliverable cargo that they have before taking a full load?
23:27:06 <ln-> 01:15 < pv2b> ln-: adding apple-tab in fullscreen would make openttd slower? <-- somewhat, yes, if Bjarni is right
23:27:35 <ln-> 01:18 <@Bjarni> no we will not have a vote about this <-- why not? it would make an excellent vote?
23:27:51 <pv2b> because it's a technical decision, not a decision for stupid users to vote about *<:-)
23:27:57 <Bjarni> a vote is useless if you end up not listening to the result
23:28:17 <Bjarni> it's even worse than useless
23:28:33 <Bjarni> it makes real polls seem less interesting to the voters
23:28:39 <Gonozal_VIII> vote4fun.openttd.org
23:28:57 <Bjarni> let's vote for another one
23:29:08 <Prof_Frink> [X] Bjarni for president!
23:29:17 <pv2b> everything that's not already defined goes to that, then anyone can choose anything to go there
23:29:53 <ln-> pv2b: the point is, however, that one cannot apple-tab out of fullscreen OTTD because of the graphics API it is using.
23:30:23 <Bjarni> but using the other API is out of the question as it is right now because it's much slower
23:30:24 <ln-> and a patch exists to make it use another API, the same one as the windowed uses nowadays, and additionally it allows apple-tabing out of the game.
23:30:37 <strstrep> ln-: Then use the patch.
23:30:50 <Bjarni> according to o... something (4 letters) it's unplayable
23:31:11 <pv2b> i don't find that the fullscreen version is slower than the windowed version, but then maybe that might because my computer is only slightly sucky.
23:31:32 <ln-> Bjarni: i don't know any o..., and why should we care about one user's mac?
23:31:34 <pv2b> i do find switching between fullscreen and windowed takes forever though, but that's not only openttd
23:31:35 <Bjarni> that's because we declared that we will use the fastest full screen driver
23:31:46 * pv2b is not getting involved in this discussion
23:32:01 <ln-> pv2b: come on, it'll be fun.
23:32:12 <Bjarni> ln-: I care because while it's not unplayable on my computer it makes it noteworthy slower
23:32:18 <reto> yeaaah.. fund town works again )
23:32:51 <ln-> it is purely evil that OTTD is allwed to take full control of the keyboard and mouse and screen and everything.
23:33:01 <pv2b> if people want to be able to alt-tab out of openttd, run windowed
23:33:04 <pv2b> you can even run it maximised
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23:33:22 <ln-> one can apple-tab out of every sensible fullscreen game..
23:33:30 <Bjarni> ln-: agreed but it's better than the alternative (too slow to be played)
23:33:30 <pv2b> ln-: i can name quite a few you can't
23:33:30 <strstrep> FWIW, I run OTTD windowed, maximized.
23:33:47 <Gonozal_VIII> wtf is apple-tab?
23:33:55 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: alt+tab for metrosexuals.
23:34:00 <strstrep> Gonozal_VIII: Alt-tab for Mac users?
23:34:07 <qball> I never r un openttd fullscreen
23:34:15 <qball> I do run it maximized over 2 screens
23:34:41 <Gonozal_VIII> don't need that, taskbar's still there with fullscreen
23:34:51 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: not on os x.
23:34:52 <ln-> pv2b: but are they sensible then?
23:35:05 <pv2b> ln-: run it maximised and stfu.
23:35:22 <strstrep> ln-: Why not patch it yourself?
23:35:34 <pv2b> ln-: don't force bjarni to slow down his openttd *<:-(
23:36:01 <Bjarni> you can't force me... you don't have commit rights :P
23:36:42 <Gonozal_VIII> he could steal your cpu and replace it with a slower one
23:36:57 <strstrep> Well, that would be a crime.
23:37:02 <ln-> strstrep: stfu, i don't have commit rights so whether i patch it or not doesn't help others.
23:37:02 <pv2b> oh, i know! he could buy Bjarni a new machine in exchange for patching that
23:37:07 <Bjarni> you can get a slower CPU than I already have?
23:37:21 <pv2b> Bjarni: what are you on?
23:37:37 <Gonozal_VIII> a snailbrain with pins^^
23:37:49 <pv2b> Bjarni: in that case, what processor is inside your computer?
23:38:20 <Bjarni> but I wouldn't mind a faster one
23:38:31 <strstrep> Send all donations to ...?
23:38:41 <Gonozal_VIII> some of those chips they found at roswell
23:39:05 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: yeah, independence day already established aliens run Mac
23:40:31 <strstrep> Well, they established that you could infect the alien computer with a Mac.
23:40:48 <strstrep> Assuming that Independence Day was true.
23:40:57 <strstrep> And they were running Mac OS Classic.
23:41:17 <pv2b> i bet you could finally build that g5 powerbook from the scraps of roswell
23:41:57 <Gonozal_VIII> of course independence day was true.. the best way to hide facts is to make a hollywood film out of them
23:42:18 <pv2b> see stargate sg1 (wormhole x-treme.)
23:42:30 <Gonozal_VIII> that's what i was thinking about^^
23:44:24 <Gonozal_VIII> btw did you notice that in most of those hollywood films where the world is in danger, be it aliens, asteroids, earthquakes, volcanos, anything, the only thing that can save us is a nuclear weapon?
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23:44:51 <strstrep> Or Samuel L. Jackson (see Snakes on a Plane, among others)
23:45:21 <Gonozal_VIII> i couldn't believe that was a real film the first time i heard the title
23:45:38 <ln-> we shouldn't forget the name of Steven Seagal
23:46:05 <Prof_Frink> It's amazing that it hadn't been made earlier, with such a simple concept
23:46:37 <strstrep> It was such a terrible movie, that's why. Though that hasn't stopped them in the past.
23:47:34 * Prof_Frink can just imagine the movie pitch: "It's on a plane, and there are snakes. We haven't worked out the minor details yet."
23:48:11 <murray> i'm looking forward to the sequel
23:48:15 <Gonozal_VIII> there were details?
23:48:18 <strstrep> The sequel to Snakes on a Plane: Snakes on EVERY Plane. It's much worse. We promise.
23:48:23 <Prof_Frink> murray: Thank you.
23:48:38 <murray> don't thank me, thank xkcd
23:48:40 <Prof_Frink> More data points in favour of Randall's Law
23:50:57 <murray> i bet it got real quiet here now because everyone started browsing xkcd
23:51:08 <reto> what does 'invalid chunk size' mean when I load a savegame?
23:52:18 <Prof_Frink> murray: Hey, it's hardly our fault that xkcd is awesome
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continue to next day ⏵
