IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-12-16
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00:27:00 <Sacro> kyevan: NAND signals are fun
00:27:09 <Sacro> and you have AND already
00:29:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> only program a NOT signal, and you can simulate NAND signals :p
00:30:18 <Gonozal_VIII> but that needs 2 signals then
00:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> a XOR signal could be fun, for load balancing
00:31:19 <Prof_Frink> Well, once you have a NAND you can build anything
00:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, NAND signals are not particularly useful for any "real" signalling purpose
00:32:38 <SmatZ_> you could run an OTTD emulator on a machine made of NAND and trains as electrons :-P
00:32:55 <valhallasw> simulating ottd in ottd... neat.
00:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, every sane language has an interpreter for itself :p
00:34:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> like you have a LISP interpreter in LISP, or a Python interpreter in Python
00:35:48 <valhallasw> ...a brainfuck interpreter in brainfuck?
00:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have not actually seen that one...
00:37:31 <SmatZ_> though brainfuck isn't really sane language :-p
00:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> for specific definitions of "sane" :)
00:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> why is there a "," in that code?
00:42:19 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause3: because there is a .
00:43:12 <valhallasw> . is input character, , is output
00:43:16 <valhallasw> or the other way around
00:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> i kinda remember . being output
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01:59:00 <kyevan> Sacro: We have AND? We have OR...
01:59:23 <Sacro> kyevan: yeah, AND an OR are already there
01:59:27 <kyevan> Unless you're counting red as on, in which case they are AND.
01:59:28 <Sacro> all you need now is NOT
01:59:34 <kyevan> Sacro: Oh? We have AND?
01:59:54 <kyevan> I thought Presignals were or?
02:00:10 <kyevan> (if A OR B is green, I'm green.)
02:00:23 <kyevan> So do we have AND or nor?
02:00:56 <kyevan> How do you do AND signals?
02:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> you have either AND or OR, depending as what you define as 0 and 1
02:02:31 <kyevan> I don't see how you could use normal signals as or, though, in either case...
02:02:59 <Sacro> i have green as 0 and red as 1
02:03:12 <Sacro> seeing as they default to green
02:03:35 <kyevan> So presignals are AND, in that case.
02:03:42 <kyevan> I still don't se how you can do OR :P
02:04:11 <Sacro> which would mean that green is 1
02:14:04 <kyevan> Normal signals don't look at the signals around them, at all
02:35:19 <Sacro> yeah, but i'm going to bed now, g'night
02:45:18 <kyevan> Gah! The large UFO disaster has the Skyranger dropping a bomb! The Skyranger is a troop transport :(
02:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> kyevan: that's a "bug" from the original game
02:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> post it in the "fatal" list, next to the one with the missing earrings
02:54:28 <kyevan> Is there an "anal nitpicky" bug list somewhere I can post it on instead? :P
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10:54:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11643 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: conform with the coding style for the WP macro uses.
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11:35:12 <strong99> how to change autosave trough console in dedicated server?
11:35:22 <strong99> it saves now every game month
11:35:56 <Gonozal_VIII> i think you can't... only options in the configure patches menu
11:36:07 <Gonozal_VIII> but i'm not sure
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11:36:51 <strong99> stupid, so i have to cancel the server and set it?
11:38:03 <Gonozal_VIII> possibly.. but don't give too much on my opinion, i'm not a dev and i never ran a dedicated server
11:39:02 <strong99> well couldn't find any console command on the wiki :P
11:39:28 <Gonozal_VIII> you can change the cfg, but that won't change anything on the running game, only after restart
11:39:43 <strong99> ^^ well thanx anyway
11:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> note that exiting the game will overwrite the config
11:40:40 <Gonozal_VIII> but when the server reaches the end year and restarts it doesn't or am i wrong there?
11:44:38 <SpComb> strong99: perhaps with set, list_vars
11:49:31 <Gonozal_VIII> you forgot 1 and possibly 0 stillunknown
11:49:33 <strong99> long live save and load :P
11:50:03 <Gonozal_VIII> save and load of a game loads the changed config?
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11:52:25 <Knightmare> last time I was in #openttd, i had problems with a modified glasgow underground scenario
11:52:54 <Knightmare> i can confirm that 0.6RC corrects the bug and makes it playable again :)
11:54:16 <Knightmare> i have noticed the groups of trains feature is no longer there, is there an option to re-enable this or was it removed completely?
11:55:03 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm it is there?
11:55:39 <Knightmare> there is the manage list options, but not to make individual groups in the way 0.5.x could
11:56:12 <Gonozal_VIII> look to the left of the window
11:56:49 <Rubidium> 0.5.x could not make individual groups
11:58:07 <Knightmare> perhaps it was 0.4.8. I used to have each line in a group, e.g. barkerloo, circle, etc but for Glasgow
11:58:32 <Rubidium> 0.4.x did also not have individual groups
11:58:42 <Rubidium> no version < 0.6 has
11:58:50 <strong99> you have in nightly build those groups
11:59:16 <Rubidium> 0.6.0-betas have them
11:59:27 <Rubidium> it's just an option in the configure patches menu somewhere
12:01:46 <Knightmare> interface > advanced vehicle orders?
12:02:17 <Knightmare> yeah thats the one
12:02:37 <Knightmare> would anyone like a copy of this scenario while i am here?
12:07:45 <Knightmare> I am working on adding more stations in the north east of the map, and improving tracks. I also have suburban rail and bus servuce to add
12:12:35 <LordAzamath> anyone with good knowledge of grfs here?
12:13:27 <LordAzamath> I have one problem...I replaced some sprites of trg1r.grf
12:13:45 <LordAzamath> now everything looks abnormal
12:13:57 <LordAzamath> yellow and red/black
12:14:24 <LordAzamath> and strange things happen when I turn transparency on :(
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12:16:48 <Gonozal_VIII> that hurts my eyes
12:18:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> then you obviously did something wrong
12:18:04 <Gonozal_VIII> i have no idea what the windows have to do with grf
12:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> also, you should not modify trg*.grf, make a newgrf instead
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12:18:58 <LordAzamath> Eddi, I'm working on the sprite replacement
12:19:00 <protoss> where is the openttd.cfg in the beta version ?
12:19:15 <Gonozal_VIII> same place as before
12:19:16 <protoss> i need it to enable full-screen mode
12:19:30 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: I think grdtogrf works under wine, so you can use that to create a newgrf of the sprites you want to play with
12:19:32 <LordAzamath> you can enable it in-game too
12:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> protoss: openttd.cfg gets created when you first run the game
12:20:33 <LordAzamath> Prof_Frink: I don't want to do a newgrf
12:20:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> and there should be a button for full screen in the game options
12:20:40 <LordAzamath> I want to replace the sprites
12:21:01 <LordAzamath> look at thread 8bpp graphics replacement
12:21:06 <LordAzamath> for more information
12:21:32 <LordAzamath> does the trg1r have to be with constant height?
12:22:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> let's say... don't change any dimensions...
12:22:42 <protoss> ok it works, thanks alot
12:22:50 <LordAzamath> that means I can't edit nfo too?
12:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> you shouldn't need to...
12:23:12 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm strange i have fullscreen = false in my cfg but it's fullscreen
12:24:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> also, if you want me to look at something, post a link
12:24:51 <LordAzamath> eddi, if I replace one sprite, with bigger one, then I need to
12:25:13 <LordAzamath> though I guess I shouldn't change dimensions...
12:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> sprite sizes are occasionally used outside the graphics engine
12:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> and those may never be different depending on which trg*.grf you use
12:27:14 <LordAzamath> so it would need a code change?
12:27:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> just don't change sizes
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12:28:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> it will not only need codechanges, it will also cause incompatibility for multiplayer
12:33:31 <Gonozal_VIII> for all that can recieve german tv... look at pro 7 teletext page 131
12:34:16 <Gonozal_VIII> a 11 year old girl jumped out of a train doing 120 km/h because the train didn't stop at her station...
12:34:47 <Gonozal_VIII> they searched for her but didn't find her because she walked home...
12:36:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> Progman: bjarni told us that yesterday
12:36:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII too
12:38:50 <Gonozal_VIII> can't remember... i'm getting old...
12:39:16 * Gonozal_VIII needs to be replaced
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12:42:37 <Gonozal_VIII> Age: 23 years (20)
12:43:03 <Knightmare> ok im off thanks for your help today guys
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12:56:14 <LordAzamath> ok....now going off to windows.. need to use palconvert tool...
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12:56:30 <LordAzamath> is it avilable for linux too?
12:56:43 <LordAzamath> then I need not to reboot
13:01:22 <LordAzamath> njeeh...anyways I'm off
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13:41:28 <wonea> anyone know when a standalone release is coming ?>
13:41:39 <wonea> trying to introduce OpenTTD to my friends
13:41:55 <Progman> when someone create sprites for the default ones
13:42:45 <Progman> until someone creates the sprites ;)
13:42:58 <Prof_Frink> wonea: Can you pixel?
13:43:13 <wonea> I've read the blender thread for ages
13:43:26 <wonea> just a case of bringing it together
13:45:24 <wonea> not complaining I think OpenTTD is great
13:45:44 <wonea> just open source games like Battle of Wesnoth seem to be making progress faster
13:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> the problem is not only great artwork
13:49:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's also rules of consistency
13:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> similar look to the original
13:49:59 <wonea> if the replacement graphics are worse than the original than there's no point
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13:50:27 <Prof_Frink> wonea: I wouldn't say no point
13:50:43 <wonea> well from a legal prespective
13:50:56 <wonea> I mean, the point is to make them better
13:51:15 <wonea> like the audio samples are a bit shabby in places
13:51:37 <wonea> I can hear the low pcm rate sometimes on my headphones
14:06:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, if you find a database of freely distributable sound samples similar to the ones here...
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15:19:14 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm assertion failed
15:19:28 <Gonozal_VIII> slope.h Line: 347
15:19:33 <Gonozal_VIII> Expression: !IsSteepSlope(s)
15:21:19 <Rubidium> very nice... but how to reproduce it
15:21:47 <Rubidium> looks very FS#1552ish
15:21:57 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know, i did nothing with slopes
15:23:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: towns?
15:23:51 <Gonozal_VIII> there was only one very small town, it was a 64^2 map
15:25:34 <Gonozal_VIII> and the last thing i did was trying to let a road vehicle turn around
15:26:12 <Gonozal_VIII> i can reproduce it in the autosave
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15:26:43 <Rubidium> well, add to FS#1552 and we might be able to get it fixed
15:28:38 <Gonozal_VIII> i have some custom grfs there
15:30:34 <Rubidium> well, if I can't reproduce it I'll bug you to attach them ;)
15:30:48 <Rubidium> but the amount of newgrfs I have has grown considerably
15:30:57 <Rubidium> (so does the amount of savegames of others)
15:31:07 <Rubidium> all with very inspiring names
15:31:26 <Gonozal_VIII> you can't have them, i modified them myself
15:31:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> "autosave4.sav"
15:32:17 <Gonozal_VIII> ok... loaded the save, paused, disabled the grfs, saved, unpaused... assertion
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15:39:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11644 /trunk/ (28 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: merge some functions from tunnel_map.h and bridge_map.h into tunnelbridge_map.h
15:39:58 <Gonozal_VIII> i added the save to fs#1552
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15:43:31 <Gonozal_VIII> btw... the "you can't have them" wasn't supposed to mean that i won't give them to you but that i didn't give them to anybody so you can't have them yet^^
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15:57:08 <UnderBuilder> a question: will the gui be changed?
15:57:33 <Gonozal_VIII> a strange question...
15:59:26 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess you think there is something in the gui that needs to be changed?
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16:04:14 <Leviathan> hey where can i find detials on the new industry patch?
16:04:52 <Gonozal_VIII> depends on what you mean by new industry patch
16:05:53 <Leviathan> with lots more industrys
16:08:30 <UnderBuilder> I have an idea for ecs but will post it in the ttdpatch irc
16:11:17 <UnderBuilder> it is about dividing passengers into: passengers (travelers), passengers (workers), passengers (turists) and passengers (business)
16:15:40 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm different destinations for them ok... but they usually take the same vehicles
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16:20:30 <LordAzamath> pavel1269, you there?
16:23:21 <LordAzamath> anyone interesting of making a patch?
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16:41:36 <LordAzamath> basically toggleable grid lines
16:41:57 <LordAzamath> sprites can be provided :) I hope
16:42:53 <LordAzamath> if Zephyris will help again (I always think he has done so much already, that it's a bit rude already to ask more)
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16:43:23 <LordAzamath> (like the pic that Belugas likes the most :D:D )
16:43:55 <LordAzamath> I hope the 'hmm' will mean that you consider it?
16:57:44 * Belugas has answered the topic. Hope i've made it clear ;)
16:59:19 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm why that belugas?
16:59:45 <Leviathan> just host a game and join the same company?
17:00:49 <Gonozal_VIII> if you can switch the gridlines on/off you can also leave them on and won't notice any difference
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17:03:58 <LordAzamath> and now..do you think I mentioned Belugas' name intentionally? So he would say something about it before I make a suggestion or smth? the answer is yes :D
17:06:04 <Gonozal_VIII> could be a button in the transparency options window
17:10:08 <LordAzamath> aarh..forget it Gonozal...if he said no way to it...I don't think he'll reconsider even after a long asking...There are other examples of that..but I don't want to mention them right now :)
17:10:13 <valhallasw> omg... I finally understand why the roller coaster clip is called 'ttdmax.avi'
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17:10:31 <valhallasw> 'Right, transport tycoon maximized gives you a roller coaster'
17:10:40 <valhallasw> but no, the coaster is called 'top thrill dragster' :D
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17:19:43 <Leviathan> is that blue arrow on the road construction on the new beta one way road?
17:21:33 <gono_ping_timeout> and do you realise that typing that question took you much longer than pressing that button?
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17:25:14 <glx> or even right clicking on it
17:26:55 <Leviathan> y doesent tram work
17:27:08 <glx> you need a grf with trams in it
17:27:41 <pavel1269> anyone here better result? :P
17:27:42 <pavel1269> openttd - 220 error(s), 0 warning(s)
17:29:15 <pavel1269> i jsut installed VS2005 and added there .... includes and lib ... dx, freetype, libpng and zlib ... anythink missing? :/
17:29:31 <Leviathan> does one way road turn it into a highway?
17:30:16 <pavel1269> friend send me dx which he compile with
17:30:45 <glx> latest dx doesn't have directmusic, so you need an older one
17:31:37 <pavel1269> as i said he compile with it
17:32:05 <skidd13> Leviathan: nope (at least ATM)
17:32:17 <glx> pavel1269: you followed the wiki?
17:32:21 <Leviathan> i enabled generic trams grf
17:32:29 <Leviathan> do i have to set trams on somehwere
17:33:06 <Leviathan> u have to enable the grf once in game
17:33:28 <pavel1269> maybye i see error now ...
17:50:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11645 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r8128): station ground tiles may have transparency or company colour
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18:11:20 <Leviathan> i rly dont understand the details performance rating
18:11:41 <Leviathan> what does Stations: 47/80 mean
18:12:03 <Leviathan> and 95/80 the other player has
18:12:30 <gono_ping_timeout> station tiles
18:12:57 <Rubidium> "you have"/"you need for 100% rating"
18:12:57 <gono_ping_timeout> hmmm no parts?
18:13:22 <Rubidium> but it depends on how you define a station
18:13:33 <gono_ping_timeout> ok, you know it better... but i thought it was tile based there
18:13:42 <Rubidium> for each station { for each station type you have { count++ } }
18:14:26 <gono_ping_timeout> 80 stations is a lot while 80 station tiles is not
18:14:50 <Rubidium> a 8x10 tile railway station will not give you 80 'points'
18:16:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> so it does not count station signs, but rather station-type icons?
18:17:09 <Leviathan> mind looking at my save game?
18:17:31 <Leviathan> one of us has networks one of us has some point to point lines
18:17:41 <Leviathan> but the one with the p2p has more points
18:18:49 <LordAzamath> guess one of you has better incomes :D
18:19:01 <gono_ping_timeout> the rating doesn't look how those stations are connected or even if they are in use or just useless
18:19:08 <Leviathan> yes i understand that
18:20:45 <Leviathan> oh i think i get it now
18:20:45 <gono_ping_timeout> [19:16:58] Eddi|zuHause2: so it does not count station signs, but rather station-type icons? <-- that seems to be it... didn't know that
18:20:49 <Leviathan> its because he has more stations
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18:21:46 <Leviathan> i got 23, he has 64
18:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> networks tend to reuse stations more often ;)
18:22:03 <gono_ping_timeout> 80 is 100% his 95 too, your 47 stations are only ~59%
18:24:48 <LordAzamath> and tend to use tracks more too
18:25:02 <LordAzamath> think how much upkeep does he have
18:25:58 <gono_ping_timeout> there would be lots of possibilities for more rating details...
18:26:18 <gono_ping_timeout> but i usually don't care about that
18:29:21 <gono_ping_timeout> for example calculate how good the tracks are used with the counter that's used in the grass growth on unused tracks patch...
18:36:24 <Zothar> aren't banks supposed to always be in a town/city rather than out in the middle of the countryside?
18:37:51 <Rubidium> depends on the version of OTTD you're using (and the NewGRFs you're using) ;)
18:38:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11646 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp settings_gui.cpp strings.cpp strings.h): -Codechange: check whether (some) characters are missing in the current 'font' for the 'currently' chosen language and give a warning when that does happen.
18:39:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> i saw a fix somewhere that had something to do with banks
18:39:47 <SmatZ> I think this was fixed "few minutes" after 0.6.0-beta2 had been released
18:40:07 <Zothar> guess I forgot seeing that in the commit logs
18:41:05 <SmatZ> r11615, 0.6.0-beta2 is r11613
18:42:28 <Zothar> for the company passwords not saved between server start for multiplayer games bug, should that be saved in the savegame file? If so, is that simply waiting for someone to submit a patch to do such? [FS#599]
18:43:16 <Rubidium> passwords in savegames are bad because server ops tend to 'release' those savegames
18:43:17 <Noldo> there is some controversy on how it should be done
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18:48:25 <Zothar> Rubidium: one way hash fixes that problem; a server op should always be able to remove the saved password
18:49:33 <Rubidium> one way hashes do not fix that problem
18:50:07 <Rubidium> it's like instead of "not locking you door", "locking your door but putting the key under the garbage bin"
18:50:07 <Zothar> which problem? making a password known or a 'released' savegame being unsable?
18:51:10 <SmatZ> and hashed salted password and a salt saved in the savegame?
18:51:32 <Noldo> also the server would need to be changed so that it doesn't send the passwords/hashes to the client
18:51:48 <Zothar> or save the salt outside of the savegame so that the password is unusable without the salt value used to hash it
18:52:06 <Zothar> Noldo: I would think it should never do that anyway :)
18:52:20 <Rubidium> then people are going to complain that the savegame doesn't work instead of just not having the passwords for the companies
18:52:25 <Noldo> Zothar: but now it sends the whole savegame
18:52:45 <Rubidium> Zothar: futhermore that salt would probably be known pretty soon too as it most likely gets into openttd.cfg
18:52:46 <Zothar> Noldo: send the data as if there is no password in that case
18:52:51 <Rubidium> which people have to supply on bug reports
18:53:08 <Zothar> Rubidium: openttd.cfg shouldn't be published, but if it is, save it in a separate file
18:53:38 <Zothar> to me, the bottom line is that there has to be a way to prevent company passwords being lost by a simple server restart; surely this is not an unsolved problem
18:53:53 <Zothar> ...so we shouldn't have to invent any wheels or anything
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19:04:48 <jools> Hi room, bit of an openttd newbie here with a question about bus autoupgrading...
19:05:39 <gono_ping_timeout> doesn't seem to be much problem for the white borders when you select an area of land (sprites 752 - 770) in trg1r
19:07:21 <gono_ping_timeout> bottom middle of the vehicle list has a manage list dropdown
19:07:34 <gono_ping_timeout> select replace vehicles there
19:17:52 <gono_ping_timeout> nice rubidium, would never have guessed that reason
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19:21:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11647 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix (r11646): it did not compile without freetype...
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19:28:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11648 /trunk/src/ (network/network_gui.cpp strings.cpp): -Fix [FS#1560]: the company password was not set when one pressed the enter key.
19:31:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11649 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: some code can be simplified thanks to changes in r11642
19:32:53 <pavel1269> 10mins 3 revisions? :)
19:33:14 <Rubidium> I've seen more revisions in less time
19:35:42 <gono_ping_timeout> get three for the price of two!
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20:02:10 *** Osai^city is now known as Osai
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20:19:44 <TheBlasphemer> I've got a dedicated server running, and want to introduce a new GRF (trams) into an already running game, is there an easy way to do so :P?
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20:24:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> load the game in a local client, add grf, save, load in server
20:24:29 <TheBlasphemer> Bah, that's ugly :P
20:24:34 <TheBlasphemer> But sounds reasonable ;)
20:25:08 <Rubidium> TheBlasphemer: changing NewGRFs in a running network game will never be possible
20:28:23 <kyevan> Seems to me like it would be a bad thing to do that anyway - what do you do if one of the clients doesn't have the new NewGRF?
20:30:44 <kyevan> Also, does anyone know if there are plans to 'fix' the Toyland to Mars conversion to use the origional industries?
20:31:31 <Gonozal_VIII> battery farms on mars or what do you mean?
20:32:13 <kyevan> The TT+WE Mars was just reskinned Temprate
20:32:15 <Gonozal_VIII> a toyland to brickland conversion would be more fun :-)
20:32:35 <kyevan> But the Toyland to Mars conversion uses the toyland chains and names.
20:33:04 <Gonozal_VIII> ah... haven't tested that in openttd
20:33:08 <TheBlasphemer> Rubidium: I can restart the server, I just don't want to throw our uber-stations away ;)
20:33:22 <TheBlasphemer> Saving and changing locally did the trick though :)
20:33:37 <kyevan> Toyland to Toyland with less garish graphics might be fun.
20:33:52 <kyevan> I kinda like the idea of toyland, but, my eyes! They bleed!
20:34:00 <Gonozal_VIII> have you seen brickland?
20:34:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> kyevan: you can probably attempt the mars conversion with newgrf industries
20:35:47 <Gonozal_VIII> with lego tiles :-) would be a very nice toyland replacement
20:36:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> they are NOT Lego® tiles
20:36:36 <kyevan> Eddi|zuHause2: They are lego tiles, though.
20:36:52 <kyevan> "lego", lower case, has come to mean generic Lego-like toys, as well.
20:36:56 <hylje> compatible with all major building blocks
20:37:18 <kyevan> Just like kleenix isn't just the one brand, you say 'google' when you mean any search engine, etc.
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20:37:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> kyevan: yeah, try to hold up that argument in court
20:38:18 <Gonozal_VIII> well... i'm not the creator so it doesn't matter how i call it
20:39:19 <kyevan> Eddi|zuHause2: You probably couldn't call it 'legoland', but useing the term 'lego' to discribe the appearence is probably OK
20:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it's called brickland
20:40:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is no lego in there
20:40:11 <kyevan> I don't see how slopes are not going to look really 'steppy', though.
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20:40:32 <Sacro> just use a slope with 4x1 at the top
20:40:47 <Gonozal_VIII> why should they not look steppy? look at the screenshots... that steppy look is nice :-)
20:40:54 <kyevan> Eddi|zuHause2: But brickland is designed to look like the world is built out of Legos or similar toys, you have to agree that.
20:41:01 <kyevan> Gonozal_VIII: It'll make rails look odd, for one :P
20:41:17 <Gonozal_VIII> again... look at the screenshots ;-)
20:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> who are you to tell me what i have to agree to?
20:42:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> lego is not even the first plastic construction brick set i have known...
20:42:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> and also not the second
20:42:50 <kyevan> Eddi|zuHause2: It is the best-known
20:42:59 <Gonozal_VIII> anyways... it's toyish, it doesn't hurt the eyes, it's good to replace toyland
20:43:02 <kyevan> And I also said 'or similar toys'
20:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe where you live...
20:43:35 <Gonozal_VIII> replace as a grf like toyland to mars
20:44:15 <Noldo> why can't we have more climates
20:45:08 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't matter much... you can turn the grf on and off easily and can't play both climates at the same time anyways
20:48:57 <kyevan> *Actually, that gives me an idea
20:50:17 <kyevan> Why don't we (meaning someone who actually knows his or her way around the source >_>) add a "GRF set" option, so players can define sets they like to use alot (Like, "Toyland Climate with the Mars Conversion" or "Temperate with trams", etc
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20:52:25 <austin_> hey, im trying to get the noai branch from the subversion repository to run; can anyone help?
20:52:41 <Gonozal_VIII> i agree that the newgrf settings window where you have to add/change every grf one by one is not the fastest solution... most of the time i copy and past directly into the cfg
20:52:52 <austin_> everything compiles fine, but when i start openttd, it just exits normally
20:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> austin_: what does openttd -h say in the section "video drivers"?
20:54:04 <austin_> List of video drivers:
20:54:04 <austin_> sdl: SDL Video Driver
20:54:04 <austin_> null: Null Video Driver
20:54:04 <austin_> dedicated: Dedicated Video Driver
20:54:28 <austin_> List of video drivers:
20:54:28 <austin_> null: Null Video Driver
20:54:28 <austin_> dedicated: Dedicated Video Driver
20:54:36 <austin_> its all coming together now :)
20:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, that is more what i expected ;)
20:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> you need to install sdl-devel package
20:55:04 <glx> and configure should detect it
20:56:26 <austin_> good deal. in case someone asks, in ubuntu its "libsdl-dev"
20:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's probably called differently everywhere ;)
20:58:15 <austin_> yeah, its just especially irritating in ubuntu because they try and enforce their own naming scheme on all their packages
20:59:06 <austin_> is there a canonical ai written in c++ to look at? the ones on the wiki are all squirrel
20:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is recommended to make squirrel AIs
21:01:03 <glx> there's no need to recompile after each small change :)
21:02:01 <austin_> i know; i was just wondering :) ive got a lot of time on my hands, so i figured i'd start doing bug fixes for openttd since i've played so much of it
21:02:30 <austin_> and it would be nice to start with something easier like ai programming to learn the api
21:03:13 <Rubidium> the AI API is vastly different from the rest of the 'core' of OpenTTD
21:03:40 <Rubidium> but in src/ai/NoAI there is a C++ 'AI'
21:03:50 <austin_> ok, just recompiled; everything works now. thanks for the help
21:05:42 <TheBlasphemer> hmmmz... Could it be the trams grf is causing desyncs?
21:05:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> austin_: it's just a very common problem ;)
21:06:13 <TheBlasphemer> Server used to be really stable to me, and now that I've enabled trams it's throwing me out randomly :S
21:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> TheBlasphemer: changing grf midgame is never a really safe thing to do
21:09:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> it _might_ go well, but it is not guaranteed to
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21:39:53 <austin_> NoAI doesnt have an api for railroads yet, right?
21:40:40 <Rubidium> actually, the API is far far from finished
21:40:40 <austin_> is it under development by someone, or is the field there wide open?
21:40:57 <Rubidium> currently nobody is actively developing the API
21:41:04 <Rubidium> primarily due to time contraints
21:41:40 <austin_> if someone else starts working on it, are there still devs around to answer questions?
21:45:05 <Rubidium> 4am-6am CET everybody is asleep
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21:46:41 <Gonozal_VIII> nope :D (looking through my logs)
21:48:57 <Rubidium> glx is (usually) the last to go to bed around 4-5am. I'm usually the first between 6 and 7am
21:50:08 <glx> and you may see Belugas during the gap, but it's very rare
21:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have quite often seen Belugas going to bed roughly at the same time as i am ;)
21:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> i really should move towards GMT-5 at some point ;)
21:51:56 <Gonozal_VIII> most of my logs end at around 3:30
21:53:51 <Gonozal_VIII> as i don't have a bouncer or stuff like that
21:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> who needs a bouncer?
21:54:16 <Prof_Frink> alan@frinketto:~/irclogs/oftc$ wc -l \#openttd.log
21:54:17 <Prof_Frink> 73689 #openttd.log
21:54:41 <Prof_Frink> No bouncing involved
21:55:07 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know what that means...
21:55:51 <Gonozal_VIII> i meant the logs that my client creates while i'm here...
21:56:17 <Gonozal_VIII> for full logs i just type !logs and click the link :-)
21:56:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> 'wc' == "word count" '-l' == "count lines instead" '\#openttd.log' == the filename
21:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is really simple...
21:56:50 <Prof_Frink> Oh, and another 12191 from the old #openttd
21:57:51 <pavel1269> glx: do you have somewhere instalation of KPF?
21:58:29 <glx> I only have the sunbelt one
21:58:31 <Prof_Frink> ...and 149958 lines of #tycoon
21:58:39 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know how many lines it has but it's 2,31mb uncompressed
21:58:58 <pavel1269> okay, i am missiong "security of system" tab
21:59:25 <Prof_Frink> alan@frinketto:~/irclogs/oftc$ du -sh \#openttd.log
22:00:03 <Prof_Frink> OK, the -s wasn't needed
22:00:10 <Gonozal_VIII> (opened it in crimson editor)^^
22:01:01 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: I could in theory do these tests and output to IRC without leaving my client
22:01:21 <Gonozal_VIII> weeeeell... i don't need that
22:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can also open a Konsole within Konversation ;)
22:02:23 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: Now you make me want to do strange things
22:02:31 <Gonozal_VIII> and i don't like that very much because i can't remember commands
22:03:14 <Prof_Frink> Namely: Open Konversation, open konsole inside it, ssh to my server, reattach the screen session and IRC from an IRC client.
22:19:06 <wombat> does anyone know of a train speed editor?
22:20:26 <wombat> I want to change the speeds of a few trains.
22:20:26 <Prof_Frink> wombat: For openTTD you need to either make a newgrf or hack the source
22:20:40 <wombat> whats a good grf editor?
22:21:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11650 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: 'initialised' NewGRFs could still be deactivated in the later 'activation' pass.
22:25:30 <wombat> ah ok, ill go poke around
22:26:45 <wombat> hmmm, grf's open into machine code
22:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> wombat: you might want to use grfcodec first ;)
22:32:27 <Gonozal_VIII> the actions are good described there, the only thing i couldn't get to work is the palette colour stuff...
22:38:15 <wombat> if i wish to open an original grf and simply tweak speed, how do i open the grf into a formatable state?
22:38:33 <Rubidium> the original GRF does not contain said information
22:38:47 <Gonozal_VIII> has to be somewhere
22:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd search in src/table
22:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> in your local checkout
22:39:48 <Gonozal_VIII> btw... what exacty do you want to change?
22:40:34 <wombat> ive got this massive system of monorail, and I cant be bothered to remake 150 trains in maglev lol
22:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> now you need to consider the tradeoff... is it easier for you to install grfcodec, and learn a few lines of grf
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22:41:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> or set up a compiler, find the line in the source, and compile your own binary
22:41:28 <Gonozal_VIII> 150 trains shouldn't be that hard to upgrade... depending on how many shared orders groups they are in
22:41:48 <wombat> many different groups, its a pretty complicated system
22:43:23 <wombat> the alternative is to build a maglev depot, make each train and then copy orders but that would take a fair while
22:43:43 <wombat> plus i wldnt mind messing around with a few other fast trains
22:44:07 <Gonozal_VIII> you can let a monorail train enter a monorail depot, sell it, upgrade the depot, buy a maglev train and the new train has the orders from the sold monorail train
22:45:15 <wombat> bah, anyone know where one can download faster than normal train grf's, already made and ready to go ones?
22:45:36 <Gonozal_VIII> the train grfs i know are slower...
22:46:18 <wombat> yea thats what ive seen.
22:46:43 <Gonozal_VIII> it's fun to start the game with a 16km/h narrow gauge train :-)
22:46:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> you really sound like "i am too lazy to solve my problem, i demand someone else solve it for me in the next 20 seconds!"
22:48:53 <wombat> I havent demanded, only asked for other peoples information.
22:49:38 <wombat> seems i may jus need to learn some grf coding then ^^
22:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> meaning is not only made up by the words you say
22:50:29 <wombat> and understanding is not only made up of the meaning you percieve
22:51:33 <wombat> anyway, What i was hoping for was a modern version of the old ttdlx editor
22:51:49 <wombat> dosnt seem to exsist :(
22:52:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> i heard of plans for some kind of grfwizard, i don't know how that turned out
22:52:27 <Gonozal_VIII> my personal opinion: you don't need that fast trains
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22:53:05 <wombat> no, its why the last 200 years of that level have been in monorail, 210mph is pretty fast
22:53:28 <wombat> i just wanted to maybe up it to 300 for a cross level route.
22:53:55 <wombat> it can end up taking a while to cross 2048 by 2048 lol
22:57:01 <wombat> so how long has everyone been playing this game? I got it the year it came out and have kept coming back to it atleast once a year, for a addictive few weeks or months, since then
22:59:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> you hear similar stories all over the place ;)
22:59:36 <Gonozal_VIII> i got ttd from a games magazine cd some years ago... but i never did well back then, i started to get better when i found openttd, that was somewhere around revision 4000 or something...
23:00:37 <wombat> 1996 is the first release date i was 8 when i got it lol
23:00:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> i got the TT demo in some game pack, my brother then bought TT for extremely high price
23:00:50 <Ondalf_Stardust> i played the demo at 1995-1996 and got TT from friend 1997. since then. at least once in year for about month straight on :) i found openttd for PPC mac about 2-3 years ago. i used ttdpatch when was playing with winxp (when i played on pc). now i got linux at my desktop and i use openttd, same goes to my titanium powerbook. OpenTTD, the name of the game ;)
23:01:18 <wombat> lol its so damn addictive
23:01:32 <Ondalf_Stardust> ehm, or was it released at 1995? ;) cannot remember. too old thing u know :P
23:01:34 <wombat> and im glad they made openttd to overcome some of the limitations in the original
23:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> i played TT(+WE) for years
23:01:42 <Gonozal_VIII> they don't make games like that anymore
23:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can't decide wether i or my brother is more addicted ;)
23:02:52 <wombat> question is, who wins at multiplayer?
23:03:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> the one with the most efficient network
23:03:14 <Gonozal_VIII> i never played multiplayer against other people... only coop
23:03:24 <Ondalf_Stardust> simcity 4 was addictive for like week, but after getting problems with commuter time, i changed back to OTTD. Now i got 2048x256 map with one company. my housemates (or roommates) have helped me with that one big layout :)
23:03:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is a score system
23:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> my latest addiction is civ4 ;)
23:04:02 <wombat> didnt get on well with that game
23:04:24 <wombat> although if im not playing transport im playing EVE, not much time for other games with university and things
23:04:53 <Ondalf_Stardust> oh, greetings from finland. we got snow here and so on... santaclaus is almost my neighbour (i live at arctic circle, not that pole -thing)
23:05:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> i got to TTD with TTDPatch 1.6 or something
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23:05:29 <Ondalf_Stardust> i'm from there :) and for those who got stereotypics from finland, we got no reindeers as pets and polar bear aren't my friends.
23:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> and later to OTTD around r33xx
23:05:58 <Gonozal_VIII> kids seem to like openttd... happend at least two times to me that i was sitting in a train, playing openttd and some kids saw that and watched me playing and asked me questions
23:06:03 <Tefad> no, you just have weird guys who write OS kernels.
23:06:12 <Ondalf_Stardust> Tefad: haha :)
23:06:30 <Tefad> and speak swedish of all things
23:06:38 <wombat> anyone playing in 32bb?
23:06:58 <Tefad> i don't know the difference. i'm always in 32bpp
23:07:02 <Ondalf_Stardust> Gonozal_VIII: also my girlfriend like that. yesterday i taught her track building and overall transportation with trains
23:07:27 <Tefad> i can't get my friends into ottd
23:07:28 <Ondalf_Stardust> Tefad: we speak finnish, but mock swedes :p
23:07:30 <wombat> tefad, are all the graphics in there 32bb or do you still have a mix of old and new?
23:07:43 <Tefad> wombat: i don't think i have any 32bpp graphics
23:07:50 <Gonozal_VIII> not all graphics exist in 32bpp yet
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23:08:10 <wombat> yea its rather annoying, im not upgrading till its all 32bpp it looks odd otherwise lol
23:08:11 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII wins the understatement of the week award!
23:08:16 <Tefad> Ondalf_Stardust: i think linus comes from one of the regions that doesn't speak much finnish but mostly swedish
23:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> Ondalf_Stardust: maybe you can clear things up for me, is Conan o'Brien really such a big "star" in finland as he always claims?
23:08:58 <Ondalf_Stardust> Eddi|zuHause2: not sure. but i use to watch that show :)
23:09:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a shame they only show 2 episodes per week here...
23:09:58 <Gonozal_VIII> should i know that?
23:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: american late night comedian
23:10:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11651 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_industrytiles.cpp): -Codechange [FS#1555]: implement GRF parameter querying for industries and fix a 'bug' as side effect.
23:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> and he's really good ;)
23:10:53 <Gonozal_VIII> where do they show that?
23:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> here, on CNBC Europe
23:11:19 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't have that
23:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> saturday and sunday 21:45 CET
23:11:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can get it on ASTRA (digital)
23:12:02 <Gonozal_VIII> can't recieve sattelite tv here
23:12:03 <Ondalf_Stardust> Tefad: not actually. he was born in helsinki which is our capital and i think there's more finns than finn-sweds
23:12:39 <Gonozal_VIII> bad mountain between the sattelite and me
23:13:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> climb on top of the mountain, put dish there ;)
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23:13:33 <Rubidium> or remove the mountain
23:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> use the terraforming tool ;)
23:13:44 <Gonozal_VIII> we have a collective dish at the lake for the whole valley and they only add recievers for stations that lots of people want to watch
23:13:46 <Ondalf_Stardust> just take a little loan and remove that
23:13:55 <UnderBuilder> a question: besides coal, what resource do you recommend me for starting with?
23:14:05 <Ondalf_Stardust> wood is good too
23:14:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: and you are certain nobody would watch a business channel like CNBC?
23:15:06 <Gonozal_VIII> in a 900 people town that consists mostly of people that can't understand english?
23:15:18 <Ondalf_Stardust> coal and wood network. in winter map i always start with wood -> paper mill and transport that paper to place which makes papers to goods
23:16:02 <UnderBuilder> iron? I can generate from there steel and from it goods
23:16:15 <Ondalf_Stardust> UnderBuilder: after you got good network with profit, you can move to farms. yeah, iron ore is good too.
23:16:31 <Ondalf_Stardust> iron ore -> steel mill, steel -> factory
23:16:49 <Digitalfox> Rubidium: FS#1555 thank you :)
23:16:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: but you can also get the shows at "the usual sites" :p
23:17:12 <UnderBuilder> only one processing industry?
23:17:22 <UnderBuilder> or should I use multiple ones?
23:17:28 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe but not without the knowledge about its existance
23:18:24 <Ondalf_Stardust> UnderBuilder: sorry for my misunderstand, but can you say that "only one processing industry" other way... i miss the point for some reason
23:18:28 <Tefad> His family belongs to the Swedish-speaking minority (roughly 6%) of Finland's population.
23:18:30 <Gonozal_VIII> they have a production limit, i think it's somewhere around 40k crates of goods
23:18:58 <UnderBuilder> I mean transporting all the coal to one power station only or to two or more?
23:19:12 <Gonozal_VIII> with power stations it doesn't matter
23:20:05 <Gonozal_VIII> but... longer way = more payment... so one industry in every corner or something like that could be useful
23:20:08 <Ondalf_Stardust> depends on a map. in our project (2048x256) we got 3 different regions. every of them has a littlebit different transportation network and they aren't connected
23:20:31 <UnderBuilder> and how do I search a location with much coal stations?
23:20:55 <Gonozal_VIII> what game version do you play with?
23:21:23 <Gonozal_VIII> then you can switch off all the other industries in the map view
23:21:51 <Ondalf_Stardust> UnderBuilder: if that's your first time and also first begin with network, just look for good site with many coal stations around one power plant. make a moneymaker from it
23:22:50 <Gonozal_VIII> a good moneymaker can be a single line between a distant mine and a power plant
23:23:11 <Ondalf_Stardust> Gonozal_VIII: haven't tried that yet :)
23:23:32 <Svish> where can I find a changelog for openttd nightly versions?
23:23:41 <Svish> the one on the download page only shows a few
23:23:44 <Ondalf_Stardust> do you ppl use some patch which makes industries easier increase production than decrease?
23:23:59 <Gonozal_VIII> after some time you can add some double track to let more trains pass until you have a full one way system
23:24:27 <Gonozal_VIII> i use ecs industries, they work completely different
23:24:55 <UnderBuilder> or should I start a passengers network?
23:25:15 <Gonozal_VIII> passengers can also be easy money
23:25:28 <Gonozal_VIII> well... everything is easy money^^
23:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> some people play all-passenger games
23:26:34 <Ondalf_Stardust> Gonozal_VIII: would you like to explain a little about those industries?
23:26:45 <Ondalf_Stardust> and are those compatible with latest nightly or SVN?
23:27:29 <Gonozal_VIII> those are the ecs vectors i use
23:27:41 <Svish> how does multiplayer work anyways? cause the time it takes to play a game... lol...
23:28:04 <Svish> or is it like counter-strike and stuff, where you can just... join and build some, and leave and stuff?
23:28:23 <Gonozal_VIII> yes you can leave and join again later
23:28:46 <Svish> maybe I will try that sometime then..
23:28:51 <Gonozal_VIII> but you should set a company password
23:29:27 <Svish> where do I do that? in the game?
23:29:29 <Gonozal_VIII> or somebody else could join the company and do stuff you don't want
23:29:45 <Svish> are newbies welcome? :p
23:29:54 <BigBB> What is prefered for patches? patch@openttd.org or bugs.openttd.org ? I see no activity on the maillist, but on flyspray.
23:30:04 <Gonozal_VIII> everybody was a newbie^^
23:30:04 <UnderBuilder> will be nice a game where each company transports only one cargo type
23:30:52 <UnderBuilder> so there is a company for passengers and mail... other for coal... other for grain/livestock...
23:30:56 <Svish> Gonozal_VIII: well.. yeah.. but I usually have a tendency to join games when no one is a newbie anymore, and everyone are crazy good and I dont have a chance =/ :p
23:31:44 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have to play against the others... play with them, look how they build, ask questions and you will learn fast
23:32:03 <Digitalfox> BigBB: I guess FS is better, since it has more activity :)
23:33:40 <BigBB> Digitalfox: I think so, too (especially devs are rare there). But my last info was: that is the new and one place for patches...
23:34:50 <UnderBuilder> any server where my idea is being used?
23:35:07 <Svish> does anyone use the timetable feature?
23:35:09 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know all servers but i think no
23:35:23 <Svish> is it just for monitoring? or?
23:35:39 <Digitalfox> BigBB: Post on FS and then if a dev thinks it's better in mail list they will move it or ask you too :)
23:35:43 <Svish> tried to run the autofill thing, but not much happend..
23:35:51 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't fully understand how that timetable thing is supposed to work^^
23:36:04 <Svish> yeah, i dont have a clue either
23:36:27 <BigBB> Digitalfox: Make a FS task and a maillist post to this link?! I think I do this .... :)
23:37:08 <Digitalfox> BigBB: Why not ? :)
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