IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-11-29
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00:00:52 <Gonozal_VIII> you have to open the shutters there
00:00:57 <Bjarni> SpComb: this might be a trick question but.... why do you not simply use the build in png screenshot function?
00:01:47 <SpComb> Bjarni: it doesn't let me take arbitrary x,y width-height screenshots with a given zoom level, and then stream them out in-memory
00:02:42 <Bjarni> wouldn't it be easier to fix that instead?
00:02:57 <SpComb> that png is generated by OpenTTD and written directly to stdout (well, with some protocol metadata), and then written out over HTTP
00:03:16 <SpComb> well, that's kind of what I've done, I've just copy-pasted the code from the normal png screenshot function and modified it to my needs
00:04:24 <SpComb> the goal is to make a "real time" mouse-drag-aroundable tiled map of an OpenTTD game
00:04:44 <SpComb> but I'm having some trouble with the OpenTTD viewport code, it's not very easy to understand
00:06:09 <SpComb> the viewport stuff has some weird virtual_left/virtual_top parameters that aren't really documented anywhere
00:08:56 <SpComb> we has OpenTTD screenshots!
00:09:20 <Eddi|zuHause> CAN HAS SCREENSHOT?
00:09:24 <SpComb> except the coordinates are wrong in some way, so everything that's not 0,0 breaks
00:09:30 <SpComb> and it just glibc'd itself
00:09:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean on the exact instant that i clicked on it?
00:10:02 <SpComb> dunno, someone crashed it
00:10:10 <SpComb> there's some kind of memory corruption bug
00:12:11 <SpComb> and then it ran out of sprite memory
00:15:38 <SpComb> now someone just needs to tell me how ViewPorts work in terms of the virtual_left/virtual_top stuff, and I could get this working
00:17:10 <SpComb> ugh, who did a ubermassive screenshot D:
00:17:32 <SpComb> 20000x20000 is a bit excessive :<
00:18:23 <SpComb> hmm, openttd's only using a small amount of mem, and not very much CPU at all, the python process is using 33m of mem and lots of CPU
00:18:40 <SpComb> my code isn't really optimized for streaming large data sets yet, the protocol is, though
00:19:01 <SpComb> OpenTTD streams the png data in (what ends out to be) 8192 byte chunks, which can all be seperately processed
00:19:04 <SpComb> LeviathNL: happy with it?
00:19:13 <SpComb> oh wait, it's sitll not over
00:19:31 <SpComb> now it is, but it turns out that it can't handle concurrent requests either
00:19:58 <LeviathNL> I already closed the page, I just wanted to know how it reacted (or how you did :) )
00:20:58 <SpComb> it survived it, just got a bit slow towards the end
00:28:42 <SpComb> you should be able to join the server at myottd.net:8118, prove that the screenshots are realtime and all of that
00:37:51 <SpComb> any non-zero value of x or y will crash it
00:38:52 <Gonozal_VIII> non-zero y doesn't crash
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00:39:16 <SpComb> right, but non-zero y doesn't do very much, either
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00:41:08 <Gonozal_VIII> there are some strange lines around the buoy names
00:41:32 <SpComb> yeah, it doesn't render them right, but the priority is figuring out how the viewport coordinates work
00:41:57 <Gonozal_VIII> changing y moves the viewport up
00:42:27 <SpComb> I would have assumed that (0, 0) is the top left corner, and (INT_MAX, INT_MAX) the bottm-right
00:46:09 <SpComb> hmm, most of the viewport code is right from revision 1, but some of the stuff that I've been trying to figure out is from truelight, r9846
00:47:05 <SpComb> where's TrueLight gone to recently?
00:52:18 <Belugas> although retired is ore accurate
00:57:12 <SpComb> would any other devs know about the viewport code?
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01:00:44 <SmatZ> SpComb: r9846 just introduced ScaleByZoom
01:00:51 <SmatZ> any changes to actual code
01:03:38 <toet> why when i start openttd it overruns my openttd.cfg >.>
01:03:54 <SpComb> when you close it it writes out openttd.cfg
01:04:13 <toet> i wanna turn off the stupid news msges
01:04:31 <SpComb> either turn them off in-game, or close openttd, modify the .cfg, and start it up again
01:20:07 <SmatZ> SpComb: still only black :-/
01:20:29 <SpComb> SmatZ: I'm copy-pasting code from the full-map screenshot, there's just a lot of black in the upper left corner
01:25:47 <SpComb> although the coordinates now break what with the zooming
01:30:26 <SpComb> so it works now, but the coordinates go a bit different once you zoom
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01:36:17 <SmatZ> SpComb: is it live game?
01:42:34 <SpComb> it's not entirely bug-free though, too late at night for that
01:49:05 <Sacro> SpComb: i see nothing D:
01:50:16 <SpComb> currently it updates itself once a second
01:50:23 <SpComb> but heavy on the server
01:50:38 <Sacro> SpComb: doesn't work in firefox
01:50:42 <SpComb> Sacro: I'm constatly rebooting it, just try again
01:51:06 <Sacro> SpComb: lots instantly in IE7, not in FF2
01:51:07 <SpComb> scroll down south-east to Padinghattan Ridge, tile (9, 8)
01:51:31 <SpComb> (you can see the tile co-ordinates if you hover over them)
01:52:02 <Sacro> i enabled it and it workies
01:52:11 <Sacro> how do i build a railway?
01:52:14 <SpComb> the server's under a bit of stress :P
01:52:20 <SpComb> Sacro: join the game at myottd.net:8118
01:53:57 <SmatZ> SpComb: nice, but it behaves a bit strange
01:54:05 <SmatZ> when redrawing, first it draws something bad
01:54:13 <SmatZ> and then it redraws to correct image
01:54:30 <SpComb> I have no clue, it's a 03:54 AM alpha
01:55:28 <Sacro> being that it's only 01:54 zulu
02:13:04 <SpComb> indeed, time to go to sleep
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05:28:50 <BigBB> what kind of soup you are?
05:29:04 <Soup> *me gets opensuse10.3 live
05:42:57 <Soup> 684.89 MB for a live cd!
05:43:22 <BigBB> what is you "OTTD" problem?
05:44:17 <BigBB> thats fine, but no problem...
05:45:30 <BigBB> <Soup> indigestive whats that? say your mother language and maybe I can help you ...
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05:55:38 <Soup> come to !!Public Server!!
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06:06:24 <BigBB> Soup, you're a flavourless soup...
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06:27:03 <Gonozal_VIII> new word for double decker trams
06:28:15 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: are you sure? could be farms, trams or tars
06:28:47 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm you're right...
06:29:15 <Gonozal_VIII> could be farm sprites in tars!
06:34:15 <Gonozal_VIII> stupid assignment :-/ (stupid me)
06:37:02 <Gonozal_VIII> you can't read a savegame with texteditor...
06:37:45 <Soup> by a override the computer
06:39:49 * Soup likes slapping people and randomly picks DaleStan to slap.
06:40:16 * Soup breaks out the slapping rod and looks sternly at Soup
06:40:41 * DaleStan likes /ignoring people and *cough*randomly*cough* picks Soup to /ignore.
06:43:55 * Soup slaps DaleStan with a large smelly trout
06:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's a really good idea
06:47:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Rubidium
06:48:14 <Rubidium> I know a better one...
06:48:19 *** Rubidium sets mode: +b *!*HydraIRC@*.gci.net
06:48:19 *** Soup was kicked by Rubidium (Soup)
06:49:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> "'Auch gut', sagte der Meister."
06:50:54 <Rubidium> poor Soup... he PMs me, but in this screen I cannot see the top part of the IRC window ;)
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06:56:49 <Rubidium> and hopefully put on /ignore by everybody
07:00:03 <Gonozal_VIII> Too many functional dependencies have been lost. (max: 2, lost: 3)... argh
07:08:27 *** Rubidium sets mode: -o Rubidium
07:23:19 <Gonozal_VIII> yay i made it :D
07:27:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> congratulations, i assume ;)
07:28:22 <Gonozal_VIII> decompose "algorithm" sucks
07:29:35 <dihedral> i thought Soup cot ganned from #openttd
07:35:06 <dihedral> i was here when it happened...
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11:10:35 <SpComb> work on a bunch of boring physics practice questions or continue fiddling with OpenTTD?
11:11:00 <hylje> do physics practice by fiddling with openttd
11:11:24 * SpComb needs moar computer science courses
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11:42:22 <SpComb> someone played around with the zoom and it crashed
11:45:14 * SpComb didn't even know that error existed
11:49:08 <Hendy> Hrm, I should play a bit of openttd at work
11:49:12 *** Hendy is now known as Hendikins
11:49:21 <Hendikins> Although I'm already playing with trains there
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14:43:11 * Hendikins pulls out his laptop to install openttd on it
14:43:41 <Hendikins> My workmates already joke that I'm a rail buff, so I might as well play openttd at work :P
14:44:06 * Belugas puts on his Diatonis CD and gets ready for another astral musical escape
14:45:21 * fjb thinks about ordering a laptop.
14:46:53 <Hendikins> I've had to put off my new laptop so that I can help the parents pay for termite treatment
14:53:03 <Hendikins> I'm finding mine very handy for the gaps between trains at work
14:53:32 <fjb> Laptops are really handy.
14:53:34 <Hendikins> A 4 trains per hour frequency can get quite boring, particularly on weekends.
14:54:12 <Hendikins> This weekend we'll have 8 trains/hour because of trackwork (yes, you did read that correctly, we've got twice as many trains because they're doing trackwork)
14:54:28 <Hendikins> (Above figures in each direction, although we only really care about one direction)
14:55:50 <Hendikins> It is because of where they're doing the shutdown.
14:56:09 <Hendikins> We normally get 2 trains/hour to Sydney via two different routes.
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14:57:28 <Hendikins> Thing is, we're getting trains off the west, which normally doesn't happen
14:59:30 * fjb thinks about 4 trains per hour in TTD.
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15:13:57 <skidd13> Any dog-catcher out there?
15:14:31 *** Belugas sets mode: +o skidd13
15:15:23 <skidd13> Any dog without a home in here? :D
15:16:36 <Belugas> "I've been to the desert on a horse with no name..."
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15:23:19 <skidd13> Belugas: IIRC Canada has only ice desert... brrrr cold
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15:27:52 <Belugas> i'm not totally sure. I think the grf used for this screeni is either ttrs2 or my own replacement set
15:28:26 <Frederik> thats that one right?
15:28:33 <Frederik> or is ttrs2 different?
15:29:17 <Belugas> that is ttrs3. the look has changed
15:30:46 <Belugas> ttrs2 used to be available from ttdpatch's wiki, iirc. but i can't see it anymore
15:31:12 <Frederik> Belugas, i'll go try yours, :)
15:31:26 <Frederik> thanks for the help already
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15:31:52 <DaleStan> It might have been there, but the wiki isn't particularly used as a graphics repository.
15:32:04 <Belugas> mine is a poor, really poor one. the real thing is much more enjoyable
15:32:28 <Frederik> yeh it has some, but not all
15:32:40 <Frederik> is ttrs2 available somewhere then?
15:32:59 <Belugas> when ttrs3 was already avaiable
15:33:28 <DaleStan> Probably just an update delay; getting that page updated requires talking to Patchman.
15:35:16 <Frederik> whats the difference between ttrs2 and ttrs3
15:35:23 <Frederik> just different buildings or also 'better'
15:37:32 <Belugas> different buildings and more features
15:37:39 <Belugas> a lot of more features
15:38:07 <Frederik> I like the buildings in that screenshot best :)
15:38:28 <Belugas> many people do prefer ttrs2 too.
15:38:41 <Frederik> ah yeh, ttrs2 also has other roads
15:38:50 <Frederik> isnt there someone who can dcc it to me?
15:39:21 <Frederik> i'm probaply not allowed to notice the channel ami? :)
15:42:24 -Frederik- hello people, sorry for the notice, is there someone who could direct me/dcc me the grf file from zimlock, TTRS2? would be very very grateful
15:43:17 <Sacro> Frederik: a good way to make friends
15:50:00 <Frederik> can someone tell me maybe how I set multiple parameters?
15:50:19 <Frederik> how do I define what is the first 2nd 3rd and 4th parameter in the parameter line
15:51:26 <Hendikins> Frederik: If you notice this notice, you'll notice this notice isn't worth noticing.
15:54:55 <Frederik> ttrs3 doesnt work for openttd? :)
15:55:33 <Belugas> ttrs3 certainly works for ottd. unless you are using 0.5.3 and lower
15:55:47 <Belugas> you need nightlies of the 0.6 beta 1
15:56:15 <Frederik> ok I use the latest stable one
15:56:38 <Frederik> want to use it for multiplayer, and dont want any crashes midgame :)
15:57:55 <Ammller> Frederik: the beta is quite stable
15:58:51 <Belugas> ho yeah... and loaded with a lot of goodies too
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15:59:17 <Ammller> the devs makes a very good job when submitting something to the trunk, so its hard to find bugs
15:59:45 <Ammller> but we work daily to hunt them :P
16:00:28 <Hendikins> I should probably also get a mouse if I plan to play openttd on the laptop
16:00:41 * Hendikins suspects using a scratchpad might get a tad irritating
16:20:57 <ln-> has anyone used libjpeg (directly)?
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16:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean you are just sub?
16:55:38 <Gege> an acronym for the Seafarers' Union of Burma
16:55:38 <Gege> the ticker symbol for Summit Bancorp of New Jersey on the New York Stock Exchange
16:55:38 <Gege> the IATA airport code for Juanda Airport in Surabaya, Indonesia
16:55:38 <Gege> the name of the substitute character in the C0 control code set
16:58:42 <Gege> Those who take the superior position are called dominants, doms (male) or dommes (female), while those who take the subordinate position are called submissives or subs (male or female).
16:58:59 <Gege> what type of sub you are?
16:59:46 <Hendikins> Eddi|zuHause2: I am wolfox, hear me rawr :P
17:44:33 <Gege> hmm anyone who can help me in ottd 0.5.3 console commands
17:45:02 <Gege> how can i change the difficultysettings like breakdowns from the console?
17:46:00 <Gege> i don"t see the difficulty settings in the patches list
17:46:57 <SmatZ> Gege: hmm I don't think this is possible
17:47:25 <Gege> thats a big problem because i run a remote server
17:47:37 <Gege> and i only can change the game from the server
17:49:01 <Gege> that's really not possible or you think it's not possible?
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17:52:50 <Gege> someone other who know this is possible or not?
17:54:35 <Gege> in that way how can i run a remoted server?
17:54:59 <Gege> every time i need to send the openttd config file?
17:55:21 <Gege> or theres any way to run the serv with my config file
17:55:49 <Gege> or load my cfg in a running server?
17:58:25 <Belugas> is it somethng that can be done with scripts? Donnu, i'm not a server/netword guy
17:59:22 <SmatZ> it shouldn't be hard to set difficulty settings as runtime-configurable
17:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think the difficulty settings can be changed other than in the config file
18:00:04 <Belugas> dihedral might answer that one...
18:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> honestly, the real way to go should be to remove the difficulty settings alltogether, and fit them in a common system with the other patch settings
18:00:27 <Belugas> SmatZ, difficulty settings must not be changed ar run time
18:01:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: some can be changed (at least on the difficulty settings window)
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18:01:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> like turning in stations
18:02:06 <Belugas> i don't remember exactly why, but i know there is a pretty good reason for it
18:02:56 <Belugas> yeah... at my age, memory is a resource i cannot rely on anymore :(
18:03:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it makes no sense to change the generation settings, like town density
18:04:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> changing the cost settings could possibly wreak havoc
18:04:17 <SmatZ> but breakdowns, are there any newGRF depending on its setting?
18:05:00 <ln-> has someone removed the [x] already?
18:05:26 <skidd13> SmatZ: You can check if the manipulations are valid with the callbacks in the settings array
18:05:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: the [x] on the difficulty settings window exits without saving
18:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> which is unlike any other window
18:08:52 <SmatZ> skidd13: not so long ago Rubidium commited change that disallows any changes of some patches in runtime
18:08:59 <SmatZ> no matter what newgrf you have loaded
18:09:59 <skidd13> SmatZ: There my memory fails...
18:10:02 <DaleStan> I don't think you can read the breakdown setting in newGRF. You can play games using a vehicle's reliability, though.
18:11:11 <DaleStan> (On the assumption that a reliability of < 25% means that breakdowns are off.)
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18:13:07 <skidd13> SmatZ: I trust your memory (this time) ;) :P
18:14:41 <ln-> it has not been removed yet. someone remove it right away, or else...
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18:28:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11539 /trunk/src/bridge_gui.cpp: -Feature: Make the bridge selection window resizable
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18:31:28 <ln-> seems that each window has the [x] and it cannot be easily removed.
18:31:54 <ln-> it can be disabled easily, but then the window won't move either.
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18:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> just add a confirmation window on clicking [x]
18:35:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> "are you sure to discard all changes?"
18:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are other such windows, like on clicking the "sell all" button in the depot
18:36:27 <Gege> the way i running the serv: the serv running about 100km from me and i only can configure the serv with console commands (like this rcon (remote pass) "command"
18:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gege: like i said, i don't think that is possible
18:37:03 <Gege> i can restart the game with new settings but only with commands
18:37:17 <glx> usually people running remote servers also use ssh to start them
18:37:26 <Gege> i dont see the windowses ehat you see when im run the serv
18:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> the only options you have is a) set the difficulty in the .cfg file before starting the server
18:37:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> or b) load a savegame that you created on a local client
18:37:59 <Gege> i need to change te server cfg not my
18:38:39 <Gege> yes i used the b version
18:39:12 <Gege> but i hoped there are other way to make changes
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18:41:11 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: confirmation dialogs are annoying, but i guess that's the least complicated option here.
18:41:33 <ln-> now who should we assign this problem to
18:42:03 <ln-> skidd13: whatever you are doing, stop it, and fix the problem mentioned above. thank you.
18:44:51 <skidd13> ln-: First of all. Stop to order a dev! Second what are you talking about
18:46:09 <Prof_Frink> skidd13: Hi, I'd like a dev.
18:46:35 <joosa> one for me as well, please
18:46:46 <blathijs> You should stop before you order one, though
18:47:17 <blathijs> ln-: And, what problem are you talking about? :-)
18:47:18 <Gonozal_VIII> drive through dev-shop?
18:47:51 <skidd13> Today only 1 Million € each
18:49:21 <ln-> blathijs: adding a confirmation dialog that appears after clicking [x] in difficulty settings window.
18:49:30 <Prof_Frink> joosa: Maybe it's /dev/beer
18:49:45 <ln-> skidd13: sorry, i thought direct orders to a random victim could be the most efficient method, and bjarni was not here.
18:50:09 <Prof_Frink> device node for a hand pull
18:50:16 <skidd13> ln-: That has been discussed earlier. And IIRC the esence was that it should stay as it is
18:50:26 <ln-> wtf, it definitely shouldn't.
18:51:18 <ln-> 20:05 < Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: the [x] on the difficulty settings window exits without saving
18:51:21 <ln-> 20:05 < Eddi|zuHause2> which is unlike any other window
18:51:54 <skidd13> ln-: A solution hopped into my mind... Why don't remove the window [x] so the user has to use one of the buttons
18:51:55 <ln-> it behaves unlike any other window in that respect. that's extremely confusing.
18:52:10 <skidd13> ln-: popups are bad style
18:52:12 <ln-> 20:31 < ln-> seems that each window has the [x] and it cannot be easily removed.
18:52:15 <ln-> 20:31 < ln-> it can be disabled easily, but then the window won't move either.
18:52:18 <ln-> 20:31 < ln-> does that matter?
18:52:22 <ln-> skidd13: i definitely agree popups are bad style.
18:52:45 <ln-> skidd13: i absolutely prefer removing the [x] if that is technically possible.
18:53:41 <skidd13> ln-: Now calm down and wait... Maybe someone will solve the problem... ;) :D
18:54:00 * Prof_Frink still thinks there should be a unified settings dialogue
18:54:12 <skidd13> ln-: If not try yourself
18:55:14 <ln-> i'm afraid it might need changes to parts that require the secred wisdom of knowing how windows are drawn.
18:57:46 <Gonozal_VIII> write an algorithm that randomly changes parts of the code... you will eventually get the result you want :-)
18:59:26 <Prof_Frink> cat /dev/urandom >./bin/openttd
19:02:48 <Belugas> one good rule for seeing a feature request been commited is that the matter is a fun idea, fun to program and fun to test, that someone is having time to do it, that it is usefull to more than one person and... well ... asked politely
19:04:29 <ln-> i'm glad you didn't mention submitting a patch.
19:04:46 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Or kidnap them and don't let them out till it's done
19:04:49 <Belugas> that surely helps speeding the process
19:05:07 <Belugas> Prof_Frink, come and get me ;)
19:05:23 <ln-> Belugas: according to my experience, it takes 2..6 months for few-line patches to get accepted.
19:05:57 <Prof_Frink> I've got some patches for openprocrastination to sort first.
19:06:04 <Belugas> look in the logs for all the -patch by- that recently got in truk ln-...
19:06:30 <Belugas> and if your patches did not get in, there may some freaking good reasons
19:06:59 <ln-> freaking good reasons such as "Darkvater" and "Tron".
19:07:53 <DorpsGek> Belugas: I have not seen Darkvater.
19:08:01 <DorpsGek> Belugas: Tron was last seen in #openttd 24 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 52 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <Tron> let me revert it
19:08:30 <ln-> Prof_Frink: oh yes, taking hostages could be a great way to speed up development.
19:08:39 <ln-> and that was not *the* Tron
19:08:54 <Belugas> nope, that was TruelLight/Brain
19:09:18 <Belugas> tron left irc way before that
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19:50:44 * Belugas puts on a medieval inspired music cd
19:56:24 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
20:02:37 * Wolf01 puts on Rhapsody playlist :P
20:24:52 * Prof_Frink sets the Ood on Belugas
20:26:39 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: nice junction
20:26:49 * Belugas cannot help Wolf01. ain't commitable ;)
20:27:15 <Wolf01> nice one Gonozal_VIII, finally a junction which uses the new bridge frature
20:28:39 * Wolf01 is going to play Beneath a Steel Sky
20:29:33 <Wolf01> (when a girl can beat me on computers things, then that's a girl for me)
20:30:14 <Belugas> my wife is far better than me on the OFF switch
20:30:31 <blathijs> Wolf01: Isn't that that scummvm game?
20:31:36 <blathijs> I'm playing Flight of the Amazon Queen atm :-)
20:32:02 <Wolf01> i finished it last year, then i played the secret of monkey island
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20:43:15 * Belugas thinks he will tune his guitar in "C F A D G C" as soon as he gets home
20:43:26 <hylje> tune your guitar AAAAAA
20:43:50 *** AntB is now known as Guest93
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20:44:27 <Belugas> monotone tuning :S hard to compose, i migh say
20:46:02 <Belugas> my prefered tuning so far is DADGAD (electric) and DGDGDC (accoustic)
20:46:15 <Belugas> if ever that means anything to anyone but me ^_^
20:47:04 <Maedhros> i wish it did, but tragically it doesn't mean much to me ;-)
20:49:51 <Gonozal_VIII> shouldn't some of those be lowercase?
20:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Eine Alte Dame Ging Hering Essen"
20:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the tuning of guitar sites i remember
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20:50:39 <Prof_Frink> Some tall bird ate a ginger herring.
20:51:20 <Belugas> easy. a regular 6 string guitar is tuned (from bigger to tiner) as Eddi|zuHause2 spotted, EADGBE
20:51:34 <Belugas> that is the regular cannonic of tuning one guitare
20:51:46 <Belugas> each letter been a note, by the way
20:52:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> i learned a tiny bit of guitar playing in 2nd class
20:52:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> wasn't really my deal
20:53:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> i started learning Tuba in 4th grade then ;)
20:53:25 <Belugas> 've been playng guit since i was 16 or 17
20:53:47 <Belugas> afer a while, i got bored with the regular tuning
20:53:47 <Belugas> I like to change the tuning of both my guitars, as it gives me new possibilities of chords pattern or even open strings cool sounds
20:53:48 <Gonozal_VIII> and you're 18 now?
20:54:07 <Prof_Frink> So /that's/ why my air guitaring is so bad...
20:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> Prof_Frink: you bought it from ebay?
20:55:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> i've heard of people being scamed on ebay
20:55:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> especially with air guitars
20:56:00 <Prof_Frink> Yeah, it's hard to find a good one
20:56:06 <Gonozal_VIII> air guitars as in wlan cable?
20:56:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, those are the most common
20:56:27 <Prof_Frink> But I got this from a proper air guitar shop
20:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> btw. there are more such mnemonic sentences for music notes
20:57:25 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: Can you go down the shop and get me a left-handed screwdriver and some striped paint?
20:57:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> like "Geh Du Alter Esel Hole FISch"
20:57:56 <Prof_Frink> Every Gay Boy Desires Freddie.
20:59:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> which are the #-keys
20:59:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's another one for the b-keys
20:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i never remember it
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20:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> because i know those by heart
21:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> those are like my natural habitat ;)
21:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> note that the german system of notes is slightly different from the english one
21:02:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> the german note "H" is the english note "B", the german note "B" is the english note "Bb"
21:03:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's probably hysterical raisins...
21:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> we have our yearly christmas concert in two weeks
21:06:11 * Belugas remembers been part of christmas service orchestra.
21:07:07 * Belugas wishes lot of fun to Eddi|zuHause2
21:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's technically a "concert in christmas time"
21:08:40 *** HerzogDeXtE1 is now known as HerzogDeXtEr
21:08:51 <Wolf01> a friend of mine is angry about the bad quality of the port of ottd for gp2x...
21:10:03 <Belugas> tell him to fix it :S
21:10:13 <Wolf01> "...do an official gp2x port!" his words "do it yourself" mine XD
21:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: you should have said "pay me to do so"
21:13:01 <Wolf01> "i'll try to do something in the next days" .. i'll see... i hope to not see fireworks from his home, earthquakes, or something bad
21:13:24 <Wolf01> he is a delphi developer, he never touched c/c++ :P
21:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> in my CS studies i learned to not learn a language
21:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> but to learn how to learn languages
21:15:01 <glx> all languages are similar indeed
21:15:38 <Wolf01> yes, what change is only the syntax
21:16:33 <Wolf01> groan.. i'm lost at beneath a steel sky :|
21:16:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> the important thing are the tiny subtleties in the semantics
21:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> like wether evaluation order is defined or undefined
21:17:32 <Belugas> tiny? there are some big differences sometimes...
21:17:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> size is relative to the viewer ;)
21:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> what's also important is to get to know the libraries that ship with the language
21:20:35 <Belugas> [16:19] <Eddi|zuHause2> size is relative to the viewer ;) <-- but not to the dev sitting behind the keyboard..
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21:23:36 <ln-> has someone tested the MMX/SSE optimized libjpeg that can be found in mozilla's sources?
21:25:59 * Belugas gives a negative answer on his part. Nor does he have intention to test it either
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21:54:52 <Belugas> the nerve of some people >:(
21:58:30 <Wolf01> still lost at beneath a steel sky
21:59:54 <Wolf01> 40 minutes without any solution :(
22:01:10 <Belugas> hem... what is a steel sky?
22:02:46 <blathijs> Belugas: aptitude install beneath-a-steel-sky
22:04:46 <Belugas> looks pretty interesting
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22:07:04 <skidd13> Broken sword is better
22:07:08 <Wolf01> this is one of the last great games
22:08:04 <Belugas> wow... take to go home is well past over!
22:08:05 <blathijs> Indeed, they don't make quality games like these anymore :-)
22:36:22 <Prof_Frink> fjb: Looks larger than a trumpet-type
22:36:34 <Prof_Frink> Especially with custombridgeheads
22:36:54 <Gonozal_VIII> tight curve, long bridge....
22:38:23 <fjb> The tight curve can be a problem, But there was tight space. I don't see that a bridge that lenght is a problem.
22:39:06 <fjb> Custom bridgeheads or diagonal bridges can offer many new possibilities, but they are not in OpenTTD yet.
22:39:32 <Gonozal_VIII> there are diagonal bridges in patch?
22:39:48 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: I have already seen it, but that would be way too large to fit in in the small space I had.
22:40:05 <Gonozal_VIII> nah, can be much smaller without the middle part
22:40:11 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't need that for threeway
22:40:17 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Not that I'm aware of, but custom bridgeheads are in patch.
22:40:35 <Gonozal_VIII> i know about the custom bridgeheads
22:41:10 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: When you shrink your crossing to the smalles threeway size, then it is what I did. :-)
22:41:12 <Prof_Frink> Still, my Whirlpool setup handles the One Junction challenge no problem
22:42:16 <fjb> Prof_Frink: Do you have a picture of your smallest threeway junction?
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22:47:56 <Prof_Frink> alanblanchflower.co.uk/images/trumpet.png
22:48:21 * Sacro looks at Prof_Frink's trumpet
22:50:22 <fjb> I would say that is not smaller than my type, but it "hangs over" at the other side of the main line. Not good if it is at the side of a hill.
22:50:41 <Prof_Frink> and whirlpool.png for a free-flowing, split-before-join, non-conflicting 4-way
22:51:03 <fjb> And it has more sharp turns at that size.
22:51:12 <Prof_Frink> fjb: Yeah, when hills come into play it gets more interesting
22:51:46 <fjb> My actual scenario is very hilly, almost mountainy. :-)
22:53:08 <fjb> The whirlpool looks great, but is farr too large for the mountains. And gladly I almost never need fourway crossings.
22:54:20 <Prof_Frink> And if you want to avoid the M6J15-style curve on the trumpet you just pull that bridge over the splitting track and merge NW of the bridges
22:54:48 <Prof_Frink> fjb: Well, it was designed to fit in the box it's in :)
22:55:29 <fjb> Was the box designed to fit the whirlpool? :-)
22:55:44 <Prof_Frink> When you compare it to the monstrosities that openttdcoop create...
22:55:58 <Prof_Frink> fjb: No, the box was designed to make it challenging
22:56:25 <fjb> Making the trumped bigger avoids the sharp turns, but when you can build large, there is no need to find a small solution.
22:56:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> my junctions usually look more like this: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%2020.%20Okt%201925.png
22:57:01 <fjb> openttdcoop people always create mosters.
22:57:22 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: You need PBS
22:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, those are PBS
22:57:56 <Prof_Frink> My junctions tend to start out as trumpets, then... mutate
22:58:14 <Prof_Frink> Near a big station, all hell tends to break loose
22:58:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> a hacky variant without PBS: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2012.%20Mai%201939.png
22:59:07 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: Nice junction, but is it a junction or a station? Or more tham one station? Hmmm....
22:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's 3 stations and like 4 junctions, or so...
23:01:25 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: In which year did that game start?
23:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> another PBS variant: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%2014.%20Aug%201923.png
23:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: the first (and last) picture is from a 1920 game with 32x daylength
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23:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's a great shot: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%204.%20Sep%201925.png
23:05:20 <fjb> 32x daylenght explains a lot...
23:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, it's a little over the top...
23:05:53 <svippy> Wow, Eddi|zuHause2, it truly is.
23:05:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> the other game is with 4x daylength
23:06:09 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: The last shot looks really nice.
23:07:12 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: No signals after the switchyard, only in front of it. We need better signals.
23:07:22 <Sacro> SmatZ: note the points :p
23:08:07 <Gonozal_VIII> signals missing? where?
23:08:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: yeah, i'm really proud of that one ;)
23:08:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: what's your point?
23:09:08 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: the other train is sorta... aimed at the camera
23:09:18 <Gonozal_VIII> they've got pbs!
23:09:30 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: No signals missing, TTD nedds too many signals.
23:09:46 <Sacro> i quite like the absolute block
23:10:13 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
23:10:16 <fjb> Sacro: The other train is facing a red signal.
23:16:39 <Gonozal_VIII> would be nice to let the signal blocks handle the switching... like trains in group 2 that enter from line 1 are forwarded to line 4 or something... then the pbs implementation would be easy for each signal block and no pathfinder would be needed :-)
23:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> programmable switches?
23:18:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> that'll be a usability nightmare...
23:18:24 <Gonozal_VIII> you'll have to think more
23:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a suggestion: waypoints on tile edges!
23:19:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> then you could do platform numbers, without using additional space
23:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> then all you need is optional orderst
23:19:40 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't like waypoints that much
23:19:46 <Gonozal_VIII> ok then they are ok
23:19:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> "go to waypoint A or waypoint B"
23:19:55 <Gonozal_VIII> but they are too strict now
23:21:12 <fjb> Better implement routing restrictions, but please don't abuse signals for that.
23:21:47 <Gonozal_VIII> i like the programmable switches :D
23:21:59 <fjb> And don't make them ultimate restrictions, more soft restrictions like the route markers.
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23:22:25 <Gonozal_VIII> i wanted to do a mockup screenshot about that some days ago but then i had to do something else and forgot about it...
23:22:34 * fjb also likes programmable switches, but that would scare people away. :-(
23:23:23 <fjb> Not that few people are thinking that wagon speed limits are already making the game unplayable hard...
23:24:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> wagon speed limits are great...
23:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> plus you can switch them off if you want to...
23:25:38 <fjb> Yes, switching them off is what many people are doing. So they don't have to choose the best locomotive for the task but always the fastest.
23:27:12 <Gonozal_VIII> there will always be people that don't like more complexity, there could be a switch to use normal pathfinder or programmable switches
23:28:14 <fjb> That switch would be needed.
23:28:43 <Gonozal_VIII> a switch could have orders like: trains from group 2 go to exit b, trains that need servicing go to exit c, trains that have station x as next target in their orders go to exit d, default go to exit a
23:29:41 <fjb> I really don't know how you can not get rich in this game when you are not an absolute beginner. But it looks like the game is too difficuld fore some people.
23:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> "if train has next order X, previous order Y, is A ticks late, has taken path B the last time it passed here, and it is full moon, take path Z"
23:30:26 <Sacro> fjb: please try not to not negate negative things
23:30:28 <Gonozal_VIII> yes... even on hard and with expansive newgrfs it's very hard not to get stinkin' rich
23:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> i once managed to get 5 running routes and pay back my loan in the 2 year demo
23:31:10 <Gonozal_VIII> only one condition at a time eddi ;-)
23:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: that's stupid...
23:31:31 <Gonozal_VIII> first conditions in the list are stronger and get checked first
23:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you make it programmable, you might as well make it turing complete
23:31:51 <fjb> What is the english word for Fahrstarße?
23:32:12 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know... what's the german meaning of that?^^
23:32:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> Fahrstraßensignal = PBS
23:33:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: i am sure you heard bjarni talking about the queen and "i fart"
23:33:15 <fjb> It means you are programming kind of routes with the switches and signals. It is far more tham PBS. It is from the start to the end of that route.
23:33:55 <dihedral> Gege: i wrote a 'reload config' patch
23:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's what PBS do, they reserve a path from the current signal to the next one
23:34:13 <dihedral> as a bunch of settings cannot be changed at runtime
23:34:33 <dihedral> this way you can edit the settings via progmans config tool
23:34:51 <dihedral> and they will be used at next 'newgame'
23:35:11 <dihedral> or when the server reaches 'restart_game_year' and starts a new game that way
23:47:34 <ln-> when is the next dutch-only day on this channel?
23:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> when was the previous one?
23:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's not dutch ;)
23:50:57 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't say "montag" i have my own system :-)
23:51:50 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: well... even if there was no previous one, that doesn't imply there couldn't be a next one.
23:52:29 <Gonozal_VIII> (Anfangtag, Nachanfangtag, Mittetag, Vorendetag, Endetag, Nachendetag, Voranfangtag)
23:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i was implying that the time until the next one could be relative to the time since the last one
23:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: i wouldn't like to have a "voranfangstag"... that'd be really depressing
23:54:07 <Gonozal_VIII> but on vorendetag you would know that the week is almost over :-)
23:55:17 * Sacro can't remember german days
23:56:21 <Gonozal_VIII> "Mittwoch" doesn't fit in with the others
23:57:18 <Gonozal_VIII> in my system it does :-)
23:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's the middle of the work-week
23:59:01 <Gonozal_VIII> you could also call them A, A+, M, E-, E, E+, A-
continue to next day ⏵
