IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-09-24
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00:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> man, i want a feature to switch engines at a station
00:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> so i can actually switch between steam and electric
00:16:11 <ln-> but that probably can't be done without rewriting half of the game.
00:19:53 <Bjarni> looks like Sionide got a point
00:20:04 <Nite> acn you actually run atrain with steam/diesel AND electric loco on it (doubleheded) ?
00:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but that is stupid (from my point of view)
00:21:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> the electric engine will be disabled during non-electric travel
00:21:57 <Bjarni> maybe acn isn't aware of this
00:24:11 <ln-> so when do we code a new ttd-style game from scratch?
00:24:34 <AmiXwoktest> isnt openttd fine?
00:25:32 <ln-> it is not extendable, it is not maintainable.
00:26:07 <ln-> it heavily depends on commercial files that are hard to obtain legally.
00:28:01 <ln-> if it was extendable, it would be a matter of hours to add support for e.g. underwater tunnels.
00:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> or The New Map Array (R)
00:45:23 <Nite> will it realy disabel? wil its % age decay ?
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02:06:24 <Sacro> i spotted leuchars in the guess the brittish station thread!
03:09:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11153 /branches/0.5/lang/slovak.txt: [0.5] -Fix [FS#1251]: incorrect usage of {G} tag in slovak translation
03:20:32 <Phazorx> anyone alive on this planet?
03:22:24 <Phazorx> glx: a server refuses to load a game
03:22:38 <Phazorx> comes up with pregenerated althoug i use -g switch
03:22:50 <Phazorx> what do i need to turn on in debug to figure out why it fdoes it ?
03:23:24 <glx> -g with full path fails ?
03:23:37 <Phazorx> have only tried relative
03:23:38 <glx> I mean -g save/game65.sav
03:23:50 <Phazorx> it just loads a generated one
03:24:11 <Phazorx> ./openttd -G save/game65.sav -D 0.0.0.0:3980 -d 2
03:25:02 <Phazorx> how do i scroll up in screen session :/
03:25:09 * glx checks source (I think order matters)
03:25:33 <Phazorx> that's console screen
03:26:00 <Phazorx> oh... it did not find one grf
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03:28:39 <glx> are you sure it's a generated game when it fails?
03:29:25 <Phazorx> if i use autopilot it is intro
03:29:32 <Phazorx> i got a generated one once too
03:29:48 <Phazorx> i think it is intro if i dont misspell anything
03:31:37 <Phazorx> that's what i mean by mispeling
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11:56:31 <Brianetta> I have stumbled upon a freakish coincidence
11:57:00 <Brianetta> The world population at the UNIX epoch
12:35:16 <Tefad> i'm going to guess 4.3 billion
12:35:29 <Tefad> but that's just a hunch
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14:17:52 <skidd13> Any dev comments to FS1090?
14:29:18 <Belugas> + "cleaner_town_growth",
14:29:18 <Belugas> + "mod_road_rebuild",
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14:30:30 <skidd13> Hmm. I prefer to split modifications from the original code
14:33:17 <Belugas> personally, i'm not much in favor of splitting. The option panel is quite populated, imho. If it is a fix, it might as well be an inclusive one. Or maybe attach it to any of the non-original towd road patter maybe?
14:33:28 <Belugas> after all, those are non-original behaviours ;)
14:34:57 <skidd13> If you prefer it this way.
14:35:37 <Belugas> as i said, it is myu opinion.
14:35:44 <Belugas> I do not know what the others think of it
14:36:02 <Belugas> and i'm not only speaking of th other devs ;)
14:36:09 <Belugas> so question is raised
14:36:20 <Belugas> and i'm not going to make a poll :D
14:37:07 <skidd13> For + "cleaner_town_growth" I can agree
14:37:07 <skidd13> + "mod_road_rebuild", is a more difficult thing cause it changes the meaning of the RoadReconstruction
15:07:36 <Belugas> could be skidd13. Justnot there yet. work@work is a nightmarish thing today
15:11:15 <skidd13> work@work/uni is a nightmare here too ;)
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16:26:47 <Belugas> DaleStan, on var 45 of industry (the player info), what return would be required if we're dealing with no owner?
16:27:35 <Belugas> in vehspri.asm:1704, you jump out of the var if it is the case (cmp al,7).
16:28:13 <Belugas> note that i could simply prohibit the callback to be lunch if it is the case, might be easier. Just wondering
16:28:25 <Belugas> err.. callback 1A4, that is...
16:33:34 <DaleStan> Currently the no-owner return is unspecified. Actual value is 000000010. The low byte is unlikely to change, but the rest may, as some parts are normally dependent on [curplayer], not [esi+<foo>.owner]
16:34:12 <DaleStan> Do not disable callback 14A. Some industries may want to select between some subset of the available colors.
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16:45:48 <Belugas> Thanks DaleStan. In the case of an owner none, though, c and C could be simply 0?
16:45:59 <Belugas> or does ttdp have some values for it?
16:46:03 <Belugas> (player info 43 for vehicles)
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16:52:56 <DaleStan> The only other defined thing Patch could do would be to return the corresponding color for [curplayer] and/or [human1], but the former isn't always reliable, and the latter is not particularly useful. (There's lots of dont-look-at-it-or-you'll-break-it type magic to make vehicle 43 work properly in the purchase window, without using [curplayer].)
16:53:24 <Belugas> DaleStan, that is exactly waht i want to be sure of, for the whole callback system
16:53:24 <Belugas> since var 45 is based on ver 43, that is...
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16:59:46 <DaleStan> indu 45 requires a structure, and is not defined if the owner is not a player. veh var 43 is always available, with or without a structure, and vehicles always have a player-owner.
17:00:00 <DaleStan> And now I'm way late leaving.
17:00:36 <Belugas> so you can stay then :D
17:03:20 <SpComb> masterserver / servers.openttd.org down?
17:20:06 <SpComb> according to XeryusTC it's been down since yesterday?
17:20:07 <XeryusTC> i heard the devs say it was down yesterday too :P
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17:21:25 <SpComb> against openttd.org specifically?
17:22:38 <SpComb> ICMP pings get through fine, but HTTP and the UDP master-server queries don't
17:43:51 <orudge> I think that's it under control
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18:25:31 <boekabart> Purno: How is DutchSet coming along?
18:26:30 <Purno> boekabart , nopes, progress is on halt
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18:27:26 <Purno> because the full coding team (hyro and me) have other hobbies to spend times on nowadays
18:27:49 <boekabart> shame... so much work 'lost' on hold :(
18:30:00 <Purno> yep, but if you're volunteering to continue... ;)
18:30:35 <Phazorx> !was thre a nighty released already today?
18:31:03 <boekabart> Purno: depends what needs to be done
18:31:16 <boekabart> grf-coding is not my specialty (as in, never done it :) )
18:31:38 <Rubidium> Phazorx: how hard is it to find out yourself?
18:31:59 <Phazorx> considering i just woke up - very :)
18:32:06 <Purno> boekabart , we use GRF Maker
18:32:12 <Phazorx> timezone maths will not compute at this time with me
18:32:24 <Purno> but it's mainly coding which needs to be done
18:33:10 <Rubidium> Phazorx: just type nightly.openttd.org in "random" browser
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18:36:54 <boekabart> Purno: what does the coding consist of?
18:37:17 <Purno> it's mainly drag and drop interface where you fill in some fields
18:37:42 <Purno> you still have to know some NFO tricks, but I'm sure you can find help with that.
18:37:51 <Purno> actually, most of the special tricks already have been done
18:37:55 <Purno> so there's already examples in the file
18:38:04 <Purno> it just needs to be combined and copied for other trains
18:38:43 <Purno> e.g. combining a year depenant livery like train A has with a consist depenandent livery like train B has for train C.
18:40:41 <Bjarni> I just had the worst timing ever. Some guy PMed me a moment after I left the computer, waited 40 minutes for a reply and left 3 minutes before I returned :(
18:41:03 <hylje> serves you right for being afk
18:41:30 <Bjarni> now I guess I have to call him
18:43:05 <Phazorx> Rubidium: i got one for ya
18:43:11 <Phazorx> another coopers desync
18:44:27 <Phazorx> this time guaranteed in 6 days from save start
18:47:17 <Bjarni> save that savegame well
18:47:29 <boekabart> how could i get started?
18:47:35 <Bjarni> I mean... make sure you don't accidentally overwrite it
18:47:45 <Purno> boekabart , what do you know about dutch trains?
18:50:45 <boekabart> about the passenger ones, more than about freight ones
18:51:07 <boekabart> although i just moved and now have a good view of the 4 track line departing from eindhoven north
18:51:22 <boekabart> so I see (and hear) my share of freight trains now
18:51:48 <Purno> I guess I could just send you the file and you can install GRF maker and try some thingies with it :)
18:52:19 <boekabart> yesterday I went to den bosch - the IRM to tilburg went side-by-side all the way until after boxtel - awesome view
18:53:19 <Bjarni> it's always nice to have a good view
18:56:15 <boekabart> driver didn;t see it
18:56:27 <boekabart> the tilburg one was about 1 car behind
18:57:27 <Bjarni> I was once in a train, that overtook the train I was suppose to get on (hence I switched at the next station)
18:57:53 <Bjarni> kind of funny to see our own train driving while I drove like 10 km/h faster
18:58:10 <hylje> i dont get that good schedules when it comes to overtaking
18:58:52 <Bjarni> it was kind of a rare moment... you see it was the short distance where two lines are right next to each other
18:59:44 <hylje> here it's LRRL all the way
19:00:30 <Purno> boekabart , you got a PM at the forums
19:01:17 <hylje> you silly danes have your rails all over the place :>
19:01:55 <Bjarni> just in the Copenhagen area
19:02:36 <Bjarni> go to Jylland and if you find some rails, then it's most likely single tracked without catenary
19:03:08 <Bjarni> and without block signals, so there are no signals outside the stations, hence long distance between the trains
19:07:45 <Bjarni> they have a bunch of stations
19:08:51 <Bjarni> even stations without platforms
19:11:10 <Bjarni> in railroad terms, a station is a place with an entrance and an exit signals
19:11:18 <Bjarni> and usually switches as well
19:11:43 <SpComb> yes! The username.myottd.net/servername urls now actually work ;)
19:11:44 <hylje> what about a location where a train usually stops to take and drop cargo
19:11:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11154 /trunk/src/music/win32_m.cpp: -Fix [FS#1239]: MIDI failing to play under Windows 95, 98 and ME.
19:12:08 <Bjarni> a "station" without signals is just a platform outside a station (we have a name for it... one I'm not sure how to translate)
19:12:21 <SpComb> having the username as a subdomain is great, the myottd servers don't cluster together in the server list anymore, and the first thing that hits the eye is the username, which is better than having them all be "MyOTTD"
19:12:24 <Phazorx> Rubidium: please take a look at that save
19:12:52 <Rubidium> since which revision is it desyncing?
19:13:07 <Phazorx> well i'd assume it is a oneoff of some kind
19:13:16 <Phazorx> since this is 3rd game we have with same rev
19:13:29 <Phazorx> but it started desyncing suddenly in a middle of it
19:13:37 <Phazorx> there are only 60 trains
19:13:52 <Phazorx> and i tried restarteign server - but that has no affect
19:13:58 <Rubidium> then it's probably a train you haven't used in the previous games
19:14:11 <Phazorx> we have diff trainset
19:14:15 <Bjarni> you can desync with just one train if that train can trigger the desync
19:14:36 <Phazorx> Bjarni: obviously, but usualy it takes much large game to show
19:14:53 <Phazorx> cuz some things are statistical by nature
19:14:58 <Phazorx> and more vehicles means more chances
19:15:02 <Bjarni> more trains: higher probability of one of the trains to trigger the issue
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19:15:34 <Bjarni> but for all we know, the desync could be caused by something else, like a town growth or similar
19:15:53 <Phazorx> well, my Q is - can it be looked at and mitigated
19:16:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11155 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp:
19:16:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1253]: work around a nasty MS CRT 8 SP1 bug making it virtually
19:16:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: impossible to debug 32bpp games under MSVC
19:16:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Patch by boekabart.
19:16:28 <hylje> windows workarounds ;_;
19:16:33 <Phazorx> given that there is only 6 days and 60 trains, should be not that hard to dig through log
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19:16:58 <Rubidium> it'll only be a couple of megabytes....
19:17:13 <Phazorx> Rubidium: can you llok at it then plz ?
19:17:24 <Sacro> hmm, this keyboard is swedish
19:18:21 * Sacro presses the Hjalp button
19:21:06 <Bjarni> Sacro: you have your sparc unit?
19:21:36 <Sacro> but currently i have no way to connect it to a monitor
19:22:04 <Rubidium> argh... why can't OTTDcoop keep their GRF set like more than a few weeks?
19:22:27 <Phazorx> Rubidium: set comes out once per 6-8 weeks actualy :)
19:22:31 <hylje> Sacro: do you have solaris
19:22:33 <boekabart> Rubidium: why do you keep committing stuff :)
19:22:55 <Sacro> getting solaris 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
19:23:18 <DeGhosty> what you talking about
19:23:26 <DeGhosty> grf 5 was like for 5 month
19:23:30 <Rubidium> hmm... how useful to have a zip with the updates since 6beta for 6beta
19:27:28 <boekabart> how nerdy can a family get: just had a skypeout conference with my mother and my wife (who is in the next room) :|
19:27:57 <boekabart> somehow - i didn't get/need to say much
19:28:19 <Sacro> "with my mother and my wife" <- zomg incest
19:28:39 <Bjarni> I think he meant two people
19:28:58 <Bjarni> but you have a point... he wasn't clear in that staement
19:29:39 <Sacro> so, shall i begin my process of porting OpenTTD to solaris?
19:30:37 <Bjarni> I once compiled it on solaris, so it should be possible to get it working again
19:31:17 <Sacro> well this is needing a 4bnc to vga adapter
19:35:31 <boekabart> 4bnc... i have a couple of 5bnc2vga lying around
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19:41:50 <Phazorx> why doesnt it desync on my windows boxes with same save?
19:42:42 <Bjarni> what OS makes it desync?
19:43:26 <Phazorx> pretty much same hardware, hwere and there, but win32 vs linux 2.6
19:44:22 <Bjarni> then we rule out endian issues
19:44:36 <Phazorx> something tells me it is to do with GRFs
19:45:02 <Phazorx> i hope Rubidium is looking into that...
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19:45:34 <Bjarni> but we can't rule out that the grf handling can contain endian issues
19:45:40 <Phazorx> Rubidium: needs server config or anything?
19:45:52 <Amixwoktest> port openttd to ataritos ;)
19:46:07 <Rubidium> no, I need to know how to reproduce it
19:46:14 <Phazorx> Rubidium: or - want to conenct to server and see clientside output when desyncing ?
19:46:48 <Rubidium> and just copying files around isn't the way to do it
19:46:48 <Phazorx> well... how can i help?
19:46:48 <Bjarni> by default, everything is little endian, so if it should convert endian on load and it's not converted, then it works on little endian (x86), but fails on big endian (PPC and sparc)
19:47:05 <Rubidium> Phazorx: I NEED to be able to reproduce it locally *or* I need some way to reproduce it between two different computers
19:47:09 <Rubidium> Sacro: middle endian
19:47:38 <Phazorx> Rubidium: will having -d 5 on client when desynced help you
19:47:49 <Phazorx> and i can provide you with server specs and everything
19:47:58 <Phazorx> since it is due to soem differences
19:48:49 <Phazorx> Rubidium: well perhaps it ahs to do with soemthing specific like compiler version or kernel or whatever
19:49:01 <Phazorx> if you wont desync when rest will it will tell you something
19:49:06 <KoverSrac> Can anyone please tell me how to enable electric rails?
19:49:13 <Rubidium> what I need is that both the server and the client uncomment line 45 and recompile
19:49:37 <Rubidium> you have to pipe the output to the console to a file and send that to me
19:49:48 <Rubidium> then I can diff that and get some data from that
19:50:14 <Rubidium> then I'm going to send you a diff to "dig" a little deeper
19:50:27 <Rubidium> <repeat until desync is solved>
19:50:33 <Phazorx> Rubidium: could be the only plan
19:50:37 <Rubidium> which usually is more than 20 cycles
19:52:20 <Phazorx> i take it just make will do ?
19:52:54 <Phazorx> server is linux based
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19:53:27 <Phazorx> same for client i guess?
19:53:38 <Rubidium> yes, otherwise it's useless
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19:55:15 <Phazorx> well something didnt work i guess
19:55:30 <Phazorx> client compiled 2 files
19:55:34 <Phazorx> server is compiling all
19:55:50 <Phazorx> didnt know i need to pass def
19:56:08 <Rubidium> Sacro: that's useless as that won't recompile all files
19:56:32 <Phazorx> [SRC] Compiling rev.cpp
19:56:32 <Phazorx> [SRC] Compiling resource ottdres.rc
19:56:32 <Phazorx> [SRC] Linking openttd.exe
19:56:36 <Phazorx> server is still compiling
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19:56:48 <Rubidium> Phazorx: then you didn't save the file
19:57:26 <Phazorx> /home/trunk# grep RANDOM src/functions.h
19:57:46 <Rubidium> `make clean all` then
19:57:49 <Phazorx> will this mean anything: gcc.exe (GCC) 3.4.2 (mingw-special)
19:58:59 <Phazorx> Rubidium: do i need to start it in any funky way ?
19:59:37 <glx> yes add a redirection to a file :)
19:59:39 <Rubidium> pipe stdout to a file (IIRC)
19:59:56 <Phazorx> that might eb hard within autopilot...
19:59:57 <Rubidium> could be stderr though
20:02:15 <Phazorx> started server - dont have any unusual ouptut in console
20:02:51 <Rubidium> I really do not want any spam in the random output
20:03:09 <Phazorx> so, what am i doing wrong then ?
20:03:17 <Phazorx> oops hold that thopught
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20:33:02 <Rubidium> Phazorx: doesn't look like a "simple" 3.4 vs 4.1/4.2 desync to me
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20:56:32 <ThePenguin> odd...When I compile the latest svn on visual C++ it keeps give me an error "No available Language Packs (invalid version?)"
20:57:10 <glx> from where do you start openttd?
20:57:56 <ThePenguin> what folder is it in?
20:59:13 <ThePenguin> I move it from my objs folder to C:\Program Files\OpenTTD.
20:59:46 <Rubidium> ever thought about copying the language packs too?
21:00:00 <ThePenguin> ohh that's it. hehe. I've never had to do that before thanks
21:00:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11156 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix r11155: fix one compiler makes the other warn ;)
21:02:18 <Phazorx> sorry was AFK, personal matter
21:02:24 <Phazorx> Rubidium: where did we stop?
21:02:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11157 /trunk/src/misc.cpp: -Fix: some random data was printed because printf "thought" that _current_player is 4 bytes instead of 1 byte, causing the random debug output to be useless.
21:02:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11158 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp: -Codechange: reduce the amount of Random calls needed when we do not have NewGRF industries that actually need the random bits.
21:02:58 <Rubidium> Phazorx: at you trying to reproduce it, and when you could reproduce it try to reproduce it in latest trunk
21:03:18 <Phazorx> i see randoms now in output but very few
21:03:26 <Rubidium> cause the random debug is kinda useless in r11118
21:03:32 <Phazorx> isnt screen should be filled with the,?
21:03:59 <Rubidium> well, first determine what's the easiest way to repeatedly reproduce it
21:04:00 <Phazorx> Rubidium: few as in i saw total of 10 on screen now
21:04:31 <Rubidium> like 250 MB worth till the 7th
21:04:32 <Phazorx> i guess since game was apused - nothing there
21:05:12 <Phazorx> cant redirect console however
21:05:23 <Rubidium> then you are *screwed* very seriously
21:05:28 <Phazorx> ottdcoop@sarah ~/svn-public/bin$ ./openttd -x -D 0.0.0.0:3980 -g save/game65.desync.sav -c debug.cfg > debu
21:05:28 <Phazorx> dbg: [net] [core] starting network...
21:05:28 <Phazorx> dbg: [net] [core] network online, multiplayer available
21:05:28 <Phazorx> dbg: [net] Detected broadcast addresses:
21:05:44 <Phazorx> could it related to screen ?
21:06:08 <Rubidium> those aren't interesting and aren't send to stdout (they go to stderr), which is good as it won't taint the log file
21:06:42 <Phazorx> okay i'm gonna let it run for awhile and see of file grows
21:06:59 <Rubidium> what do you mean with a while?
21:07:03 <Rubidium> has the client connected?
21:07:45 <Phazorx> client has 11118M and server is 11118
21:08:04 <Rubidium> both have local modifications
21:08:24 <Rubidium> so the server isn't running the correct binary
21:08:41 <Phazorx> i just compiled it...
21:08:41 <glx> <Phazorx> okay i'm gonna let it run for awhile and see of file grows <-- you clearly don't know how big the random log can be :)
21:08:55 <Phazorx> glx: if game is paused it tends to be 0
21:09:08 <Phazorx> which was confusing me a bit
21:09:10 <Rubidium> and it only grows when the first client is connected
21:09:27 <glx> yes, but it's better to have a rapid desync
21:09:28 <Rubidium> Phazorx: isn't it kinda obvious that nothing happens when the game is paused?
21:09:31 <Phazorx> however - i can not connect due to mentioned reason
21:09:40 <Phazorx> Rubidium: i see things happening in the log
21:09:48 <Phazorx> so it not like just nothing happens
21:09:59 <Phazorx> but yes i should have guessed that random has to do only with game enguine
21:10:07 <Phazorx> rather than whgole applciation
21:10:30 <Rubidium> what kind of garbage is sent into the log now then?
21:10:40 <Rubidium> because it is obviously not random debug stuff
21:10:55 <Phazorx> nothing in the log, but lots on screen
21:11:15 <Phazorx> how do i get M in the revision ?
21:11:17 <Rubidium> then STOP saying it is in the log when it is NOT
21:11:22 <Phazorx> or should i just do make all clean ?
21:11:26 <Rubidium> Phazorx: by doing local modifications
21:11:41 <Phazorx> well obviosly since randoms started to apperaing modifications are in effect
21:11:59 <Rubidium> Phazorx: randoms ONLY show when the first client joins
21:12:29 <Phazorx> with stamdard version
21:12:35 <Phazorx> but i can not conenct with modded one
21:12:48 <Rubidium> as I said before... you are running the WRONG server
21:12:50 *** ThePenguin has left #openttd
21:13:24 <Phazorx> but it produces debugs, as it sugegsted by function.h line i changed
21:13:36 <Phazorx> i mean i have someone joined there since server is in master list
21:13:38 <Rubidium> then recompile the thing
21:13:49 <Phazorx> no funky params necessary?
21:14:05 <Phazorx> nothing special i nede to get it to put M under linux?
21:14:27 <Rubidium> it should've done automatically
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21:14:43 <Rubidium> but somehow your system is screwed
21:14:57 <Phazorx> correction: Brianetta's system :)
21:15:06 <Phazorx> mine actualy did put M where it suppsoed to
21:16:24 <Rubidium> how big is the log now?
21:16:41 <Phazorx> i stopped the server since i am recompiling
21:16:56 <Phazorx> -rw------- 1 ottdcoop users 540006743 Sep 24 21:15 debug.1
21:17:04 <Phazorx> that's about 20 min of one client
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21:19:34 <Rubidium> more like two game weeks
21:20:37 <Phazorx> well 20 min since server started
21:20:46 <Phazorx> person could have logged in a bit later
21:21:07 *** Frostregen has joined #openttd
21:21:15 <Rubidium> way later as 7 game days gave me 250 MB of log with the given savegame at r11118
21:21:26 <glx> anyway debug log is only useful if you have both client and server logs
21:21:32 <Rubidium> (and a little less than 20 MB with r11155)
21:22:01 <Phazorx> glx: exactly my issue - client and server got different revisions
21:22:05 <Phazorx> hence i am recompiling
21:22:58 <glx> and it's even more useful to make log when you know "when" the desync will happen
21:23:16 <Phazorx> 6 days after game unpaused
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21:24:14 <Phazorx> something totaly differnt from what i expect
21:24:51 <Phazorx> ottdcoop@sarah ~/svn-public$ ./bin/openttd --help | grep OpenTTD
21:25:01 <Phazorx> and that's what i just compiled from that src
21:25:12 <Phazorx> well this is very confusing now
21:25:14 <Rubidium> no wonder why it desyncs...
21:25:28 <Phazorx> where the freaking revision is coming?
21:25:45 <Rubidium> someone doing ./configure --revision=r11118
21:27:02 <Phazorx> thanks i'll come back if it is not resolved
21:27:10 <glx> anyway you didn't change the sources ;)
21:28:17 <glx> <Phazorx> Revision: 11129 <-- means no changes in source
21:28:23 <Rubidium> if you did it would've had an M appended
21:29:04 <Phazorx> ottdcoop@sarah ~/svn-public$ svn info | grep Revision
21:29:04 <Phazorx> ottdcoop@sarah ~/svn-public$ grep RANDOM src/functions.h
21:29:07 <glx> wait it's not svnversion output
21:29:26 <Phazorx> what is "subversion output" ?
21:29:42 <Rubidium> Phazorx: read and don't guess what somebody writes
21:30:05 <Phazorx> ottdcoop@sarah ~/svn-public$ subversion
21:30:05 <Phazorx> bash: subversion: command not found
21:32:40 <Phazorx> thanks and sorry for misunderstanding
21:35:44 <Brianetta> [22:14] <Rubidium> but somehow your system is screwed
21:35:44 <Brianetta> [22:14] <Phazorx> correction: Brianetta's system :)
21:35:49 <Brianetta> Why is my system screwed?
21:36:21 <Sacro> Brianetta: easier than using an allan key
21:37:04 <Rubidium> because the people administrating the OTTDcoop server have made a big mess of it
21:37:17 <Rubidium> by for example overriding the revision of their OTTD binary
21:37:18 <Phazorx> Brianetta: someone, apparently XeryusTC, didnt follow instruction
21:37:44 <Phazorx> and got one revision to be pretending another one
21:37:46 <Rubidium> which then caused OTTD's build system to not add a M nor the correct revision in the revision string
21:38:00 <Phazorx> whoch lead to desyncs and me trying to figure out the reason for it
21:38:01 <Rubidium> but that is okay, because it did override it
21:38:42 <Rubidium> but when nobody tells me they have it overridden... then you're more likely to assume the system isn't okay than that they have overriden the revision
21:39:07 <Phazorx> Brianetta: our AP is still very killabale with that command and would really like to know what exactly in config could be causing it
21:39:38 <Amixwoktest> Rubidium: nice track
21:39:45 <Amixwoktest> didnt see it before
21:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> in railroad terms, a station is a place with an entrance and an exit signals <- i learned that a station is anything that has at least one switch
21:40:04 <glx> Amixwoktest: try to find the coal mine grf ;)
21:42:00 <Ammler> whats happen, if you update a patched to a new svn revision with patched files?
21:42:02 <Amixwoktest> is there some guides on howto?
21:42:22 <glx> Rubidium's screenshot was a test case, not a real game
21:42:38 <Ammler> I always do svn revert to be sure, its "clean"
21:42:58 <glx> Ammler: nothing if you're lucky, else conflicts to resolve
21:43:03 <Amixwoktest> but ive seen people making such things and earns money on that
21:43:42 <Rubidium> Amixwoktest: just look at the industry window and tell us what's different
21:44:10 <Amixwoktest> lets take it another time
21:44:16 <Amixwoktest> i am ready for bed
21:44:50 <Ammler> glx: a patched file won't be overwriten?
21:44:53 <Rubidium> Belugas: seems nobody is interested in our work ;) better revert it
21:45:07 <Rubidium> Ammler: that depends on the circumstances
21:45:18 <glx> svn does the right thing if changes doesn't overlap
21:45:34 <glx> else it tells you to do the right thing :)
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21:46:02 <Ammler> means, it breaks with an error msg
21:46:14 <Phazorx> [SRC] Linking openttd.exe
21:46:14 <Phazorx> industry_cmd.o:industry_cmd.cpp:(.text+0x12d4): undefined reference to `Random()'
21:46:25 <Rubidium> Ammler: read the documentation of subversion
21:46:32 <Amixwoktest> Rubidium: i am interested in trams ;)
21:47:05 <Rubidium> Phazorx: been changing files while compiling?
21:47:10 *** Administrator_ is now known as Barry
21:47:23 <Phazorx> Rubidium: nope, just did revert too
21:47:28 <Phazorx> but that didnt do anything
21:47:57 <Phazorx> make clean might eb a good idea tho
21:48:12 <Rubidium> for some reason nothing seems to work as it should around you
21:48:34 <Phazorx> at least not as expected
21:49:07 <Rubidium> no, as it should, cause it works as expected on my machine
21:49:40 <Phazorx> well it is windows aftter all
21:49:41 <Ammler> [23:48] <Rubidium> Ammler: read the documentation of subversion <-- omg, so complicated?
21:49:55 <XeryusTC> <Phazorx> Brianetta: someone, apparently XeryusTC, didnt follow instruction
21:50:09 <Phazorx> XeryusTC: read around that
21:50:15 <Phazorx> we dont know who was it for sure
21:50:26 <Rubidium> Ammler: there are quite a few cornercases I do not want to explain here in detail
21:50:27 <Phazorx> but someone apparently did update revision
21:50:32 <Phazorx> but kept old versuion info
21:52:00 <Rubidium> no somebody who made the assumption that ./configure --revision=11118 updates you working copy to r11118.
21:52:04 <glx> M file1 <-- file1 was not patched
21:52:04 <glx> G file2 <-- file2 was patched but svn changes were in an other place
21:52:04 <glx> C file3 <-- file3 was patched and svn changes were in the same place
21:52:41 <glx> latest line means you'll need to edit the code then use "svn resolved"
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21:53:59 <Rubidium> and then there are a few more cases, like svn move which does not "retain" the changes from file X to Y when somebody moved file X to Y
21:54:22 <glx> Ammler: anyway even without conflicts the code may be broken and fail to compile/work
21:55:06 <glx> like when a function get an added arg
21:55:47 <glx> Rubidium: yes c->c++ was nice for all patches ;)
21:56:24 <glx> then we've done Makefile rewrite, same effect :)
21:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you just need to change the filenames/paths in the diff file
22:00:46 <glx> but you must svn diff before the update
22:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that would be appropriate ;)
22:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what backup copies are for ;)
22:23:31 *** glx|away has joined #openttd
22:23:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx|away
22:24:27 *** glx is now known as Guest1045
22:24:27 *** glx|away is now known as glx
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22:34:14 * SpComb has now pretty much finished breaking/rewiring/fixing myottd.net
22:34:31 <SpComb> each user gets their own subdomain now
22:34:47 <SpComb> which works out quite neatly with the urls and stuff and all
22:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> now it still does not work, but it at least looks pretty while doing that?
22:35:23 <SpComb> it mostly works, I haven't tested the deeper corners of the admin interface yet, but they shouldn't have broken too badly
22:35:43 <Ammler> hmm, ammler.myottd.net doesn't work
22:36:39 <Ammler> its more a DNS problem, I guess
22:36:52 <SpComb> hmm, it should resolve fine
22:37:25 <SpComb> terom@shell:~$ host ammler.myottd.net
22:37:25 <SpComb> ammler.myottd.net is an alias for www.myottd.net.
22:37:25 <SpComb> www.myottd.net has address 82.130.16.18
22:38:28 <Ammler> does also not work from Brianetta
22:40:01 <Ammler> $ host ammler.myottd.net
22:40:01 <Ammler> Host ammler.myottd.net not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
22:40:23 <Ammler> but I guess, thats only needs time
22:40:57 <SpComb> hmmmm, it resolves fine from my university's unix server, which is unrelated to any of my servers
22:42:22 <SpComb> dig +trace ammler.myottd.net // dig @ns1.marttila.de ammler.myottd.net // dig @ns2.marttila.de ammler.myottd.net
22:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it also works from my university
22:42:42 <SpComb> dump output in pb.marttila.de if it's interesting
22:43:03 <Brianetta> IRC PM from Brianetta: players
22:43:04 <Brianetta> echo doneclientcount
22:43:32 <Brianetta> Ammler: Stop-motion conversation
22:43:42 <Brianetta> Minutes to hours per frame
22:44:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: what was that about world population earlier today?
22:45:45 <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause: Coincidence? I think not. At the UNIX epoch (1970/01/01 00:00:00) the world population just happened to be 0xDEADBEEF. Yeah, right, like that wasn't deliberate.
22:46:07 <Brianetta> Ammler: ammler.myottd.net shoved in hosts file
22:46:49 <Phazorx> Brianetta: extaly that number? :)
22:47:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you should not interprete these numbers for more than 3 digits accuracy
22:47:41 <SpComb> if you run dig +trace ammler.myottd.net, does it resolve it?
22:47:52 <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause: You can't say for sure they're not right
22:48:07 <Brianetta> Phazorx: It's my determination to make everybody believe so, yes
22:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i did not try to say that :p
22:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's a typical example of "do not trust a statistic you did not manipulate yourself"
22:48:31 <Phazorx> Brianetta: and any conclusions based on that you want to share with us?
22:48:52 <SpComb> I guess your local caching resolver has it negatively cached from some time earlier
22:49:33 <Brianetta> Phazorx: It's a conspiracy.
22:49:58 <Phazorx> almighty thee things in heaxdecimal mysterious ways?
22:53:04 <SpComb> figuring out how to make the subdomain stuff possible under the web framework I'm using took a while
22:53:41 <SpComb> and the bearings in two of zapotekII's (which hosts myottd.net) fans are broken/about to break/making grinding noises
22:54:45 <SpComb> may have to shut it down overnight to be able to sleep
22:57:10 <SpComb> it's making this sharp whistling noise
23:02:07 <Prof_Frink> SpComb: Just turn the fans off
23:02:55 <SpComb> I'd rather not wake up to the smell of burning plastic
23:02:56 <Tefad> 0x3857CC was worlds population in 1970
23:05:22 <Prof_Frink> 0x0000000F is the world's population next week.
23:06:38 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
23:08:37 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> in railroad terms, a station is a place with an entrance and an exit signals <- i learned that a station is anything that has at least one switch <--- it's technically possible to have switches outside stations (most are removed by now and the few that's left are rarely used). It's also possible to have a station without switches (this wouldn't really make sense though, but the rules allows it). This could b
23:08:37 <Bjarni> e a difference between Danish and German rules
23:09:05 <Eddi|zuHause> such a long line does not fit in my OSD on highlights...
23:09:30 <Bjarni> though I can only think of one location where this definition matters. Everywhere else would be the same
23:10:01 <Bjarni> hehe... then you have a poor client :P
23:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause> btw, a platform without station is called "Haltepunkt" here.
23:12:38 <Bjarni> we actually have two terms for it. One is '"Haltepunkt" outside station area'
23:16:17 <_42_> Sacro, if you can't see SpComb here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^
23:16:46 <Bjarni> hey... SpComb can see into the future
23:16:58 <Sacro> SpComb: is there still talk of you altering your python stuffs to allow an irc client?
23:17:08 <Bjarni> he replied to a request sent 5 sec after the reply
23:17:27 <SpComb> Sacro: I don't understand the question
23:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> like in the bash quote :p
23:17:57 <Sacro> SpComb: i want a nice webbased irc client, and i thought you might have been working on one
23:18:15 <SpComb> you mean write a web-browser based IRC client using SpBotII? Not today, nor tomorow, nor this week, probably not this month, ec
23:18:38 <SpComb> I've talked about it, but never started, and don't really intend to
23:19:55 <Bjarni> yep, just looked up the switch I was thinking about. It's 400 meters from the station boarder, so it's outside. It's right next to a platform though... it's a funny combo since the signal in front of it (on the other side of the platform) acts as a station entrance signal without actually being one
23:21:11 <Bjarni> the switch is used to connect two railroads so it's only used when a DMU needs bigger repairs than the local workshop can handle or when they buy/sell rolling stock (which is pretty rare)
23:22:23 <Ailure> I promised myself to lay off playing openTTD until newindustries was implemented
23:22:35 <Ailure> but I wnded up breaking that promise
23:23:12 <Bjarni> you sound like something who just declared that he would quit smoking and then leaves to buy more cigarettes
23:23:23 <Ailure> I did hold it for about two months
23:23:28 <Ailure> then I really started to miss openTTD
23:23:41 <Bjarni> but... why would you do something that silly?
23:23:59 <Ailure> me partly being bored on that game
23:24:03 <Ailure> and having other stuff to do heh
23:24:21 <Ailure> I didn't want it to swallow up all my free time again :p
23:26:27 * SpComb shuts down myottd.net for the night
23:26:40 <SpComb> I'll turn it back on tomorrow, and write a topic about it on the forums
23:27:06 <Bjarni> <Ailure> I didn't want it to swallow up all my free time again :p <-- so you started playing WoW instead? :P
23:27:36 <Ailure> just switching between personal programming projects like an ADHD kid on caffeine
23:27:50 <Ailure> and then spending rest of the free time on other games
23:29:36 <Ailure> I had a few programming ideas related to openTTD too
23:29:45 <Ailure> but I need to improve my knowledge in C++
23:30:29 <Ailure> Great at Java, decent at C. C++ spefic stuff is still a bit confusing. D:
23:31:16 <dfox> C++ is confusing by design
23:31:48 <Bjarni> it depends on the eyes of the beholder
23:31:59 <Bjarni> once you get the idea, it's not that complex
23:32:03 <Ailure> Object oriented programming is supposed to make life easier ;)
23:32:09 <Bjarni> and I hope to reach that level some day :P
23:32:18 <Ailure> although I admit, at first Object programming seemed stupid and overly complex compared to traditional programming
23:32:44 <Ailure> simple concepts such as encapslutation makes programming easier longterm
23:33:04 <Ailure> I belive parts of the openTTD code was, or has been encapsluated
23:33:10 <Ailure> such as the map accessors and mutators
23:33:21 <Ailure> or whatever it was called now
23:34:31 <Bjarni> as long as the programmers are too
23:34:51 <Ailure> and as long they get enough time :)
23:34:57 <Ailure> the less time you get, the more programmers tend to cheat
23:35:04 <Bjarni> objects should make it faster to code
23:35:04 <Ailure> ...and the more spaghetti code there is
23:35:27 <Ailure> and it should make code easier to change
23:35:31 <Ailure> without it breaking together
23:35:46 <Bjarni> I like the idea of function overloading
23:36:16 <Ailure> I used that a quite few tiems in Java
23:36:26 <Grey> what is function overloading?
23:36:52 <Bjarni> how to make a good example...
23:37:02 <Bjarni> say we make this function called add
23:37:19 <Bjarni> you make add(int a, int b) {return a+b}
23:37:45 <Bjarni> then you make add(int a, int b, int c) {return a+b+c}
23:38:02 <Bjarni> then the compiler will pick the right one based on your type and number of arguments
23:38:23 <Grey> I'd do that as an array, just because its neater
23:38:34 <Bjarni> it has to be used correctly though it it will be really confusing
23:38:59 <Bjarni> I wouldn't make a function to add two numbers :P
23:39:45 <Grey> yes, but passing lots of variables is neater when done as an array
23:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> there are tricky ways to make that an arbitrary number of arguments
23:39:59 <Bjarni> the compiler has no idea if the functions will do more or less the same, so you can actually have two functions with the same name where one adds a wagon to a train and the other one clears a tile... it would just make the code damn hard to read
23:40:21 <Bjarni> and the diff will be rejected ;)
23:40:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, name all your functions "func" and just differentiate them through the signature :p
23:40:53 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: they aren't that hard... just look it up in the code and copy paste it and you are good to go
23:41:07 <Ailure> anyway, sorta a newbish question
23:41:13 <Ailure> but there's something spefic I want to mess around with
23:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i said tricky, not hard
23:41:20 <Ailure> where is the vehicle cost calculated
23:41:26 <Ailure> for when you buy a vecile
23:41:50 <Ailure> was looking around the other day, but didn't have any luck
23:41:59 <Bjarni> that's somewhat simple
23:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean it's not taught in the average C lecture
23:42:14 <Bjarni> the code to do that is in ship_cmd.cpp
23:42:14 <Ailure> then I was kind of tired the other day
23:42:28 <Bjarni> specifically CmdBuildShip()
23:42:40 <Ailure> I would been expecting code reusage here
23:42:46 <Bjarni> it has "return value;" where value is actually what you are asking for
23:43:06 <Bjarni> then backtrace how it sets up value
23:43:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Ailure: the code reusage part is how CmdXXX is called
23:44:17 <glx> <@Bjarni> then you make add(int a, int b, int c) {return a+b+c} <-- I'd use {return add(a,b) + c }
23:44:18 <Bjarni> value = EstimateShipCost(p1);
23:44:19 <Eddi|zuHause> which should not be of much interest
23:44:44 <Bjarni> Ailure: this is basically the line you wanted.... then look up EstimateShipCost()
23:45:20 <Bjarni> glx: yeah... but it was just a really simple example to tell what it was about. I missed ; as well and no comments and so on ;)
23:46:53 <Ailure> I had some stupid idea about how the economy would work
23:47:43 <Ailure> which might be of a somewhat controversional addition
23:48:11 <Ailure> vehicle cost would be affected by popularity
23:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> vehicle costs should follow a supply and demand scheme
23:48:34 <Bjarni> controversial? You mean like you will add naked people to the finance window?
23:48:49 <Ailure> about supply and demand
23:48:56 <Ailure> but my idea was just a simple multiplier
23:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> if you suddenly purchase a large number, the prices should rise significantly
23:49:13 <Bjarni> how should it be affected by popularity?
23:49:15 <Ailure> ...although something like where vehicles are auctioned out in case of high demand but low supply could be intresting
23:49:38 <Ailure> more you buy, the more expensive it gets :P
23:49:54 <Bjarni> ever heard of mass production?
23:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause> or it should prevent you from building any more for a period of time, so you will have to switch to less optimal engine types
23:50:13 <Ailure> the idea wasn't to imitate reality too much
23:50:22 <Ailure> it was just to prevent people from building 234234 of the same engine
23:50:47 <Bjarni> I'm pretty sure nobody will do that
23:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: yes, but even mass production needs time to adjust to new needs
23:50:58 <Bjarni> because we have a 64000 vehicle limit in the game
23:51:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot expect a prototype to be mass-produced in the first year
23:51:27 <glx> and you can already limit the number of vehicles
23:51:32 <Ailure> hey didn't someone actually reach that limit
23:51:50 <Bjarni> I had a bug report with cloning because somebody hit the hard limit
23:52:20 <Bjarni> that was a damn crowded map
23:52:34 <Bjarni> I think it was 512x512 or maybe even smaller
23:52:43 <Bjarni> this guy had vehicles on almost all tiles
23:53:12 <Ailure> yeah boats can overlap haha
23:53:15 <Bjarni> it was almost only trains
23:53:23 <Ailure> although they shouldn't
23:55:32 <Bjarni> it would be a huge task to make ships work as we would like
23:55:53 <Brianetta> Just have them both explode and sink if they collide
23:56:06 <Ailure> or it would been done awhile ago
23:56:08 <Bjarni> but that's not how we would like it to work :P
23:56:08 <Brianetta> The extra CPU for collision detection will be made up for in no time by fewer boats
23:56:33 <Ailure> even with a harsh ship limit
23:56:41 <Ailure> Brianetta's server still slowed down with ships
23:56:52 <Ailure> due to the cpu consuming path finding
23:56:52 <Bjarni> that goes for all servers
23:56:59 <Bjarni> it's not just a Brianetta issue
23:57:30 <Ailure> it happened when I hosted my own server too
23:59:33 *** ThePizzaKing has joined #openttd
23:59:57 <Ailure> and even if the server is able to cope it, the clients connecting to it might not
continue to next day ⏵
