IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-09-23
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00:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> "dbg: [misc] [utf8] unknown string command character 57368"
00:01:13 <Rubidium> probably not, but it could be
00:01:44 <Rubidium> primarily because TTDPs string codes < 255
00:05:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, weird... i have a conflict, but the two sections look exactly the same...
00:06:04 <glx> no one has a space before */ ;)
00:16:27 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2, did yo played a lot with alpine in ttd?
00:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> i used ttdpatch long before newgrf...
00:18:37 <Belugas> so, knowing exactly what MB changed (apart from the graphics) would mean asking him
00:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> according to the readme, he ported the temperate industry scheme to arctic
00:23:13 <Belugas> i was more concerned about the eventual features underneath, like callbaks and such
00:25:05 <glx> most callbacks are done now
00:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, the farm i founded still closes immediately
00:50:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> they are fine if i use the production cheat on them in the first month
01:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> *mental note* do not go to a city with trams while on fast forward...
01:05:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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01:37:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> weird... i built a station and it got the same name as a previously built one...
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05:37:46 <Phazorx> is there a way to ban by subnet in ottd ?
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07:38:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11146 /branches/noai/ (166 files in 14 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r11035:11045.
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09:38:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11147 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#1247] (r11105): reallow bounding boxes with x/y/z-extent 0. Some NewGRFs need them. Patch by frosch.
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10:07:12 <SpComb> there, now MyOTTD supports changing the patch settings as well
10:07:38 <SpComb> it's a bit annoying how OpenTTD writes out the config when it quits, but stopping OpenTTD, writing it out, and then starting it again isn't such a big pain
10:10:34 <Rubidium> SpComb: there's a command line parameter to not write the config file
10:11:10 <Rubidium> hmm, that's only trunk it seems
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10:26:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11148 /trunk/ (Makefile.src.in config.lib): -Codechange: add support for getting version numbers from Mercurial/HG instead of norev000 (when using a Mercurial/HG clone that is).
10:54:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r11149 /trunk/src/ (macros.h newgrf_house.cpp): -Fix [FS#1225]: Draw building stages for new house ground sprites.
11:05:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11150 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#1202]: NewGRF action 3 does not necessarily need an action 1 to be defined. Patch by frosch.
11:09:12 <valhallasw> is there a way to change the team of a user, server-side?
11:09:19 <valhallasw> i.e. to force someone to be a spectator
11:09:44 <Ammler> instead of banning him
11:10:38 <Rubidium> not without going very complex and possibly desyncing the game (with the current binary that is)
11:11:13 <Ammler> its something simular after bankrupt
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11:17:18 <Ammler> Rubidium: you mean, if you only patch the server?
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11:22:47 <Rubidium> well, you could try GDB magic
11:22:59 <Rubidium> but it's likely that the client will desync and then just reconnect
11:24:48 <blathijs> What's the problem with banning?
11:25:02 <blathijs> You want him to stick around and think about what he has done? :-p
11:26:08 <Eddi|zuHause> while you are touching that code... allow creating/joining a company from spectator mode
11:29:24 <Ammler> maybe its better to have the "bad guy" in spctator mode then trying another way to join
11:46:09 <Prof_Frink> Ammler: And you could have a 'sin bin', stopping people building for 6 months or so
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14:12:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
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14:32:49 <Sacro> thgergo: either a) fix your internet, or b) DISABLE AUTOJOIN
14:34:27 <DorpsGek> Sacro: thgergo was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 0 hours, 28 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <thgergo> !password
14:34:58 <Sacro> Bjarni: requesting +b on therg*
14:35:19 <Amix> i just love the trams :)
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14:36:19 <Sacro> thgerg2: QUIT SPAMMING THE CHANNEL
14:36:43 <Amix> his ip can be the reason aswell Sacro
14:36:45 <hylje> Sacro: /ignore #openttd joins quits nicks parts
14:36:59 <Sacro> hylje: i don't like to do that
14:37:51 <hylje> but really, given a sane irc client it should deal with annoying crap
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14:42:41 <Amix> you have to get into his dreams and wake him up ;p but thats a hard task i guess :)
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14:44:46 <Bjarni> so you want me to ban a guy because he has an unstable connection?
14:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: thgerg* is timing out every 4 minutes
14:45:02 *** Tefad_ is now known as Tefad
14:45:08 <Tefad> i've been banned for that before
14:45:16 <Tefad> back when i had dialup and/or bpl
14:45:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> while the network timeout is 8 minutes...
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14:46:45 <Bjarni> you mean he times out faster than the network would kick him?
14:47:00 <Bjarni> thgerg2: why are you so unstable?
14:47:35 <Bjarni> well.. I guess you already asked this
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14:48:03 <ln-> just ban him to get rid of this constant spam
14:48:16 *** Bjarni sets mode: +b *!*Thiering_@*.pool.t-online.hu
14:48:46 <Bjarni> where did the +n and +t come from?
14:51:04 <Tefad> +n means people outside the channel aren't permitted to send messages into the channel
14:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> [2007-09-23 16:48] *** ChanServ setzt den Kanalmodus auf "keine Nachrichten von außerhalb".
14:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> [2007-09-23 16:48] *** ChanServ schaltet den Topic-Schutz ein.
14:52:06 <Tefad> IRC started off without channels. the owner of the server was the operator..
14:52:20 <Bjarni> huh.. that last screenshot... why is there a black triangle to the left?
14:52:38 <Bjarni> looks like a jet plane shadow, but too dark to be a shadow
14:53:12 <Bjarni> the small one on the trees
14:53:22 <AmiXwoktest> they are a bit screwed up in latest nightly build
14:53:25 <Sacro> there is another at Larningpool Falls West
14:53:53 <Tefad> the aliens have taken over
14:54:16 <Bjarni> don't tell about our invasion plans
14:54:23 <AmiXwoktest> its the tram alien ;p
14:55:27 <Bjarni> I kind of feel sorry for thgerg
14:56:10 <Bjarni> remind me to unban him in a few hours
14:56:59 <Bjarni> I have nothing against banning trolls and stuff like that, but this guy... he is not even trying to be mean at all
14:57:14 <Tefad> wait for him to come back
14:57:19 <Tefad> then kick/ban him with a reason
14:57:22 <Tefad> so he'll have some clue
14:57:31 <Tefad> or leave him a friendly PM ; )
14:58:01 <ln-> Bjarni: if you unban him, the same thing is likely to continue.
14:58:18 <ln-> and ffs, the last time he spoke anything was a week ago.
15:00:37 <Sacro> i think we should cull all uses who haven't spoken in a week
15:01:09 <Sacro> we need people who enter the channel and say "hello"
15:01:44 <SmatZ> it was a nice weekend...
15:02:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> you also have monday tomorrow?
15:02:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> what a coincidence...
15:03:43 <Rubidium> Sacro: that's not a valid English word.
15:04:18 <Rubidium> nor a correctly written German word.
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15:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i have a feeling the freight train multiplyer has no effect anymore...
15:29:26 <AmiXwoktest> tokai: latest nigtly build runs, but I get "Error: Could not allocate memory for the group-sorting-list" when clicking the train icon.
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15:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have now set a multiplier of 50, and my single BR 85 still climbs multiple slopes with 20 ore wagons as if they were filled with feathers
15:32:09 <AmiXwoktest> does anyone else get tramsets to work with newest nightly build?
15:41:36 <mcbane> what is newest for ya?
15:42:40 <AmiXwoktest> the newest on www.openttd.org
15:43:08 <glx> newest is not a version :)
15:44:15 <AmiXwoktest> but i am using morphos
15:54:10 <Bjarni> AmiXwoktest: now you killed the channel with such an outstanding statement o_O
15:55:40 <Bjarni> "Error: Could not allocate memory for the group-sorting-list" <-- looks like you ran out of memory. For some reason malloc failed to allocate the needed memory
15:57:57 <Sacro> i might have my Sparc box soon :D
16:01:16 <Sacro> i <3 overzealous filtering
16:02:43 <hylje> you just had to look that up, did you not?
16:04:45 <AmiXwoktest> Bjarni: i have 512mb of ram
16:04:55 <AmiXwoktest> earlier nightly worked
16:05:05 <Sacro> hylje: i know the scunthorpe problem well, got kicked from many a channel because of it :(
16:05:09 <AmiXwoktest> until you want to see the list of your trains
16:05:16 <Sacro> hence i usually call it scunny
16:07:44 <Sacro> i just found my stepsister on a dating site
16:09:54 <Bjarni> Sacro: contact her and she will start to look for women :P
16:11:49 * Bjarni wonders how Sacro figured out who the person behind the nick really is
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16:14:54 <Bjarni> it would have been interesting to keep such pics until you need to blackmail her for something
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16:15:39 <AmiXwoktest> its like that in all nightly builds it seems
16:16:20 <AmiXwoktest> in 0.5.3 its all fine
16:16:40 <Bjarni> it's a stable release ;)
16:16:51 <glx> 0.5.3 doesn't have groups
16:17:04 <AmiXwoktest> i just havent clicked on the train or bus icon in nightly builds before
16:17:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> that might be an explanation :p
16:17:10 <Bjarni> AmiXwoktest: do you have svn?
16:17:10 <AmiXwoktest> so now i found out the bug
16:18:13 <glx> AmiXwoktest: try disabling advanced vehicle list
16:18:51 <Bjarni> but do as glx says first
16:18:59 <Bjarni> as it might be simpler and faster to do
16:19:22 <glx> 19th line in Interface tab
16:19:31 <AmiXwoktest> glx: in interface?
16:19:50 <glx> the first tab in patches settings
16:20:56 <glx> anyway it may be a gcc 2.95 bug
16:21:59 <Bjarni> even if it's a gcc bug, it would be nice to get rid of this issue (if possible)
16:22:55 <AmiXwoktest> Bjarni: i didnt have same problem in osx
16:23:04 <AmiXwoktest> but then osx version got other problems ;p
16:23:57 <Bjarni> that really sounds like an MorphOS issue (or gcc 2.95 issue)
16:24:16 <AmiXwoktest> glx: where is the disabling advanced vehicle?
16:26:46 <Bjarni> since it appears to be a MorphOS issue, we should make tokai take a look
16:26:48 <AmiXwoktest> glx: i didnt look at the arrows,.. thinking not of them
16:27:47 <AmiXwoktest> Bjarni: but i dont really like the new box. seen it in osx version.
16:28:21 <Bjarni> the question if you like it or not isn't really the issue. The question if the game crashes or not is
16:30:51 <Bjarni> AmiXwoktest: post a bug report
16:31:09 <Bjarni> we will need to look at this issue.... no crashes allowed ;)
16:31:23 <Bjarni> leave those to other projects
16:32:01 <AmiXwoktest> this is the message i get when clicking the train, bus, boat or flight icon
16:32:24 <AmiXwoktest> when turning off the new interface, it works
16:32:52 <Bjarni> don't tell me. Tell the bug report :p
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17:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, is this a newindustries, newcargos or general newgrf bug? i just got offered a food truck, but there is no food in this game
17:17:04 <AmiXwoktest> i deleted all of the extra grfs
17:17:17 <AmiXwoktest> and still it came up with the same error
17:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> he was talking to me...
17:17:57 <glx> AmiXwoktest: your problem seems to be Morphos specific
17:18:25 <_minime_> it's up to the grf what vehicles it provides for each climate, so that would be the first place i'd look
17:20:42 <mcbane> hmm cia is soo silent =%
17:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> gfldex: the dbset does not change any trucks :p
17:21:57 <mcbane> 2 weeks no commits then?!
17:22:25 <glx> no there were commits yesterday
17:23:08 <mcbane> Commit by rubidium :: r11150 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp:
17:23:08 <mcbane> -Fix [FS#1202]: NewGRF action 3 does not necessarily need an action 1 to be defined. Patch by frosch.
17:49:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> who is in charge of newcargos? it appears like the ion ore in alpine climate is not counted as freight, but as passengers, so the freight multiplier does not get applied to it.
17:50:00 <glx> theorically OTTD does what the grf says
17:50:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't have the patch to doublecheck
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18:09:43 <Wolf01> could somebody translate this text for a friend of mine? "Bitte benutze den Bedankokaten um den Text sehen zu können."
18:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> "use the Thank-You-O-Mat to view the text"
18:11:38 <ln-> is that "zu" necessary there?
18:11:46 <ln-> and wtf is a Thank-You-O-Mat?
18:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: usually a link at the bottom of the first post
18:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: to avoid hundreds of posts of the form "thank you for this <whatever>", you get a list: "these people have thanked the author: A, B, XYZ, Blah"
18:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: about the "zu", "um [...] zu können" is a typical example of a "erweiterter Infinitiv mit zu"
18:21:25 <Bjarni> AmiXwoktest: how is it going with that bug report?
18:21:50 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: is there some situation where "zu" isn't used in front of auxiliary verbs, or am i completely mistaken?
18:22:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not sure what you refer to as "auxiliary verb"
18:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> keep in mind, i am a native speaker, i just do The Right Thing(tm)
18:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln-: yes, but i do not see the connection to the phrase here (or how it could be formulated differently without "zu")
18:25:40 <ln-> ok, not that particular sentence, no.
18:26:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> Zehn zahme Ziegen zogen zehn Zentner Zucker zur Zeitzer Zuckerfabrik.
18:27:31 <SmatZ> ln- do you mean something like "Ich will es machen" x "Ich gehe dort etwas zu machen"? I hope nothing is wrong with those sentences :)
18:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: the 2nd one could use some improvement ;)
18:29:11 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: sorry :(
18:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> but again that supports my point of view, this has nothing to do with auxiliary verbs (as "machen" is the main verb, "wollen" -> "ich will" is an auxiliary verb)
18:31:22 <Bjarni> fish... it was a sugar factory, not fish factory :P
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18:34:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> how did you get the idea it was about fish?
18:34:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> the one about fish goes like:
18:35:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> Fischers Fritze fischt frische Fische, frische Fische fischt Fischers Fritze.
18:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are more of those...
18:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> Blaukraut bleibt Blaukraut und Brautkleid bleibt Brautkleid. [usually said 3 times fast]
18:38:42 <svippy> IT sounds like... "Er det DDR?"
18:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is not a "Zungenbrecher" [tongue-breaker?]
18:39:20 <svippy> That's "Rødgrød med fløde."
18:39:26 <Maedhros> Eddi|zuHause2: tongue-twister :)
18:47:45 <ln-> which one is more interesting, Hannover or Hamburg?
18:48:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> Hamburg has the model trains ;)
18:51:27 <ln-> hannover appears to be in niedersachsen
18:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have never been in either city
18:52:31 <ln-> i've been to both, in hannover i've even spent a few days. hamburg was more like airport <-> hauptbahnhof.
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19:11:38 <ln-> but, another thing; does someone want to recommend a quality motherboard with the following specs: 3xPCI slot, nforce chipset, preferably integrated graphics?
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19:27:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11151 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: add (partial) support for randomizing industry triggers (part of the backend for it). Furthermore update the documentation of the map's bits wrt to industries.
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19:53:23 <Bjarni> right now the news are talking about how everybody are using youtube
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19:55:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11152 /trunk/src/ (4 files):
19:55:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: GetIndustryIDAtOffset crashed when translation of the GFX ID would be needed. Fix by Belugas.
19:55:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: GetIndustryIDAtOffset crashed when the industry->xy tile was not an industry tile.
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20:20:46 <Maedhros> is that Carol Vorderman?
20:21:14 <boekabart> it.... disappears!?!?
20:30:21 <Bjarni> ln-: how do you manage to find videos like that?
20:30:47 <Bjarni> do you search for emergency landing and disintegrating planes?
20:31:37 <ln-> the first one i found just by searching for "boeing 777", the second one someone pasted as a response to my first url.
20:33:06 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: The purpose of youtube is to find videos of boomy things
20:40:25 <Bjarni> that last explosion... the shockwave that went through the ground made sheds and stuff collapse in a nearby town
20:40:49 <Bjarni> I can't remember how many km it was from the blast, but it was a pretty decent distance
20:44:35 <Prof_Frink> At Las Vegas's McCarran International Airport seven miles (11 km) away, windows were cracked and doors were pushed open. A Boeing 737 on final approach was buffeted by the shock wave.
20:49:35 <Bjarni> this is hilarious... British locomotives speaking Japanese... it just sounds SO wrong XD
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20:55:45 <Bjarni> anybody interested in an explanation of why this happened?
20:56:39 <Rubidium> they put the train in neutral ;)
20:57:28 <Bjarni> actually they did a full reverse when they tried to get it free
20:59:26 <Tefad> plow's stuck pretty good, heh
20:59:42 <Bjarni> the thing is they delivered a great deal of force to the snow. The pressure increased and snow under high pressure melts, so when the train was stopped by the snow, the pressure decreased and the melted snow froze again, gluing the snowplow to the huge pile of snow
21:00:04 <Tefad> compressed snow at that
21:00:25 <Bjarni> yeah... something like that
21:00:33 <Bjarni> and the snowplow was in the middle of it :P
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21:12:20 <AmiXwoktest> autosave is also broken i think
21:13:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> AmiXwoktest: nobody here has morphos to test...
21:14:07 <AmiXwoktest> how do i dissable autosave function?
21:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> in the settings menu
21:14:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> autosave interval: 1/3/12 months or never
21:16:43 <Rubidium> AmiXwoktest: what version are you playing with?
21:19:56 <AmiXwoktest> Eddi|zuHause2: settings menu?
21:21:16 <AmiXwoktest> screenshot saving works
21:21:24 <AmiXwoktest> but saving dosent
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21:24:35 <Rubidium> so MorphOS is fairly broken in the current nightlies?
21:25:18 <glx> too much c++ for gcc 2.95 ;)
21:25:45 <Rubidium> nah, probably the search paths patch acting up for MorphOS
21:26:25 <Bjarni> search paths wouldn't explain the group window crash
21:26:27 <glx> there's also a problem with advanced vehicle list
21:26:56 <Rubidium> though that GUI doesn't use any fancy C++ things
21:27:26 <Rubidium> if MallocT is broken, then OTTD wouldn't even start
21:27:48 <Rubidium> or it's MallocT-ing a size 0 array
21:28:15 <Rubidium> but that's only a thing someone with programming experience *and* a running MorphOS machine can tell us I think
21:28:41 <Bjarni> I only know one person that could fit that description
21:30:06 <Bjarni> so we should make two bug reports and assign them to tokai. It's likely that he is the only one who is able to figure out what goes wrong
21:30:20 <Bjarni> tokai: are you here right now? :)
21:31:46 <AmiXwoktest> this is how openttd is structured
21:31:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> 'Michael Mittermeier: [... big dramatic excourse about wrecked enterprise ...] "and there is only one guy who can fix that." - Guy in audience: "MacGuyver!" - Michael Mittermeyer: "MacGuyver... He couldn't even get apprentice at Scotty."'
21:32:14 <AmiXwoktest> openttd have an .info icon aswell, which is the icon file
21:33:13 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, that's right. MacGuyver is fiction so he can't fix anything
21:34:28 <Bjarni> Enterprise on the other hand... it's in the future. You can't prove that it will not happen :P
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21:35:10 * Bjarni considers the odds for a real faster than light Enterprise to be pretty close to zero though
21:35:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> mathmaticians have no real problems with odds close to zero :p
21:37:26 <Prof_Frink> It's aways fun listening to trekkies explaining how the Enterprise works
21:37:48 <Prof_Frink> It's even more fun to slap them with a big sign saying "It's not real!"
21:38:11 <Bjarni> if 1:10.000.000 car will explode every year, then odds are that it will eventually happen because there are so many cars and a whole lot of years. If you pick a particular car (like your own), it's highly unlikely that it will be the one to explode though
21:38:50 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Or, to put it another way, it's millions-to-one that a given ticket will win the lottery
21:38:59 <Prof_Frink> But most weeks, someone does
21:39:32 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: try to ask trekkies if jedi knights can use the force to shut down a warp core
21:40:12 <Prof_Frink> "zomg, the Force isn't real"
21:40:18 <Bjarni> I should try to ask such a question myself :D
21:40:33 <Prof_Frink> "Oh god, what have I been doing with my life?"
21:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's why a face recognition system that works correct 99% of the time is useless, because at an airport with 100.000 passengers, that means 1000 false alarms each day
21:40:48 <Bjarni> damn, I missed the sci-fi convention this weekend... I should have showed up and asked questions like that
21:41:32 <mcbane> wow lowes nightly rev server i saw in the list is r9978 =P
21:42:03 <Prof_Frink> Or, just point out that one Star Destroyer could wipe out most of starfleet
21:48:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> starwars guys couldn't hit an open barn door
21:49:28 <Bjarni> a powerplant with an uptime of 99,9% is actually pretty bad because it would mean that it has a downtime of 8,7 hours every year. People wouldn't accept that ;)
21:50:11 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: As Obi-wan says "Only imperial stormtroopers are this precise". wtf was he on about?
21:50:33 <Vikthor> Bjarni: I would say average powerplant has even greater downtime a year
21:51:26 *** Tyr_Arcana has joined #openttd
21:51:27 <Bjarni> I'm not talking about planned downtime where it's planned that another turbine or powerplant takes over
21:51:56 <Bjarni> I'm talking about the "oops, now we unexpectedly lost power" uptime
21:52:14 <Vikthor> Bjarni: Even if its not planned downtime you can get away thanks to grid
21:52:26 <AmiXwoktest> now i found out why i couldnt save
21:52:40 <AmiXwoktest> forgot to add save dir
21:52:54 <Bjarni> you have to manually add a savedir?
21:52:54 <Tyr_Arcana> hi all, need some help with a bug
21:53:03 <Bjarni> shouldn't that be created automatically?
21:53:14 <AmiXwoktest> but the save dir isnt with nightly builds
21:53:19 <Bjarni> Tyr_Arcana: you name it and we will create it :P
21:53:47 <AmiXwoktest> Bjarni: yes, but only when save dir is present
21:53:54 <glx> AmiXwoktest: there's an empty save dir in morphos releases?
21:54:14 <AmiXwoktest> in the morphos releases, there are no save dir
21:54:23 <AmiXwoktest> glx: look at the screenshot
21:54:38 <Bjarni> OpenTTD should create the directories it needs when it opens
21:54:48 <Tyr_Arcana> hehe, well, its a bug I've seen in nightlies, but not in 0.5.2 or .3
21:55:33 <Bjarni> Tyr_Arcana: that sounds like a new bug but we need more info than that if we should fix it
21:55:49 <Tyr_Arcana> the scroll arrows on scrollbars and dropdowns are replaced with flags, and the resize handle is an oversized black blob, which hangs out beyond the edges of the windows and messes up the landscape
21:56:30 <Tyr_Arcana> this on ppc osx 10.4.9 with r111118 and last nights nightly, probably other nightlies too but not checked
21:56:52 <Tyr_Arcana> and I haven't tried compiling my own version either yet
21:57:05 <glx> you mixed openttd.grf files
21:57:24 <Bjarni> interesting revision number
21:57:31 <glx> check the console, it must tell something about missing or corrupted file
21:57:44 <Tyr_Arcana> lol, its some number of 1's lol, can't be bothered to count =)
21:57:44 <Prof_Frink> Quite a long way in the future
21:57:59 <Prof_Frink> Hopefully after 1.0
21:58:38 <Tyr_Arcana> I don't think I mixed up grf's... just downloaded it, and supplied the same set of original ttd grf's that the stock release wanted
21:58:59 <Tyr_Arcana> I def didn't copy anything from 0.5.2 into the nightly's folder
21:59:44 <Bjarni> I don't think it's a mixup either. I placed the openttd grf files inside the bundle so the enduser shouldn't be bothered with this. Updating is just a drag-n-drop and that's it... no need to look at the data stuff or lng
21:59:47 <glx> but it looks like you overwritten openttd.grf from the nightly with an older one
22:00:53 * Bjarni tries the revision in question
22:01:08 <Tyr_Arcana> ah, you're right... the folder I was dragging in does have a copy of openttd.grf in it, well spotted
22:01:28 <Bjarni> ok, maybe I don't have to test it :P
22:01:51 <AmiXwoktest> Bjarni: are you the main coder of OpenTTD?
22:02:11 <Tyr_Arcana> I must confess, I got the data files as a bundle from a friend, not actually owning my own copy of the original ttd, I guess he just gave me his data folder instead of just the files I needed
22:02:41 <glx> Tyr_Arcana: put the 6 needed files in a .tar
22:03:23 <Tyr_Arcana> well you've done a nice job of the port so far btw, runs nicely on my 300mhz g3 iBook (tangerine clamshell)
22:04:08 <AmiXwoktest> Bjarni: i dont know if you hate symbian or not. but does SDL programs work on Nokia N95 or E90 etc? And would OpenTTD be ported to them? How about Nintendo DS?
22:04:13 <Bjarni> I tested it on my beige G3 (that is until I decided to discontinue support for 10.2). It was playable
22:04:17 <glx> and for the nightlies you don't have to put ttd files in the same place you installed it
22:04:43 <Bjarni> NIntendo DS.... that reminds me of Alex_fili
22:04:44 <Tyr_Arcana> you don't? where d'they look then?
22:05:09 <glx> Bjarni should know where ottd searchs for files ;)
22:05:11 <Bjarni> Tyr_Arcana: Documents/OpenTTD/Data
22:05:32 <Bjarni> that I have yet to actually write :P
22:05:45 <Bjarni> at least I don't think I wrote it anywhere yet
22:05:59 <Tyr_Arcana> well, I did notice that it was saving in there
22:06:52 <glx> once the ttd files are there, you can have as many nightlies version as you want without having to move/copy ttd files
22:07:10 <Bjarni> it's a directory common to all your own OpenTTD installs so if you like me have several binaries, you can just place all the newgrf files in there and they can all find them... much easier than giving each app their own set
22:07:41 <Tyr_Arcana> neat, I shall, thanx
22:07:43 <Bjarni> also you can just drop the game app where you want as it will no longer write files to the same directory
22:08:15 <Bjarni> say you can drop it in Applications if you like and all users can access it, but each user will have his own config and savegames
22:08:39 <Bjarni> well... it should work, but I didn't actually test it
22:08:41 <Tyr_Arcana> of course, thats how all apps *should* behave, but still nice
22:09:18 <Bjarni> <Tyr_Arcana> of course, thats how all apps *should* behave <-- it's not how 0.5.3 behaves. It's a new feature for nightly builds
22:10:03 <Tyr_Arcana> yeah, but it'll be in 0.6 I'm sure
22:10:27 <Bjarni> if you drop a config next to the game app, then it will use that one instead of the one in the docs directory... I really should write how this behaves
22:10:33 <glx> I hope we won't revert the changes we made for this feature ;)
22:10:35 <Bjarni> someday before 0.6.0 :P
22:10:59 <Tyr_Arcana> btw, to all of you guys who've been writing this wonderful game, thank you. I only found it a week ago, and have been playing virtually 24/7 ever since
22:11:14 <Tyr_Arcana> kinda annoying actually, I should have been packing to move back to uni =P
22:12:10 <Bjarni> I talked to a guy at uni, who said that the only game he had on his iBook was OpenTTD... if he filled it with games, then he would spend too much time on it
22:12:19 <Bjarni> plan didn't work perfectly :P
22:12:27 <Tyr_Arcana> yeah... I can see why that would be hehe
22:13:08 <Tyr_Arcana> I nearly had the same problem with freeciv, but thankfully their ai is so annoying that the game got boring before it was addictive
22:13:33 <Tyr_Arcana> not that the openttd's ai is much better, but at least there's a lot of fun to be had single player (or coop)
22:16:25 <Bjarni> single player freeciv without any AI :P
22:17:17 <Tyr_Arcana> yeah, but civilisation is about more than building, its about trade and competetion... the other players add more to the game than they do here, or at least it seems so to me
22:18:48 <Bjarni> if you are cool (and the level is not too tough), you can do without trading inventions and stuff and just conquer the other towns right away
22:19:49 <Tyr_Arcana> true... still, ttd wins imvho =)
22:20:10 <Tyr_Arcana> btw, anyone know of a decent osx irc client?
22:20:19 <Bjarni> I once tried that in civ 1 on emperor. I started with the wheel (or invented it right away, can't remember) and then I flooded with my new fast unit. All civilizations was on the same (but big) island, so we never really got out of the stoneage before I was the sole survivor
22:20:55 <Bjarni> I had to try it, but it wasn't that much fun as I expected it to be
22:21:15 <Bjarni> <Tyr_Arcana> btw, anyone know of a decent osx irc client? <-- I use Xchat. It gets the job done
22:21:23 <Bjarni> never really tried anything else though
22:21:52 <Prof_Frink> There is only One True IRC client
22:22:03 <Tyr_Arcana> ok, I'm using xirc now, but it keeps nagging me to buy it, and the interface is kinda... meh
22:22:29 <Bjarni> I hate when software do that
22:22:45 <Bjarni> and people, who wants money out of hard working students
22:22:57 <Bjarni> IRC+hard working student.... rare :P
22:24:08 <Prof_Frink> hard working + student = rare
22:24:24 <Bjarni> well, I AM rare... I know
22:24:37 <Tyr_Arcana> lol, well, I'm only here to talk to ppl about openttd lol, not been on irc in a decade otherwise
22:24:40 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Get back on the grill then
22:25:57 <Prof_Frink> Don't worry, it's not for too long
22:26:05 <Prof_Frink> Just to get you medium-rare
22:27:04 <Bjarni> dude.... the grill is full of coolant from the engine.... you are not supposed to mess with it
22:31:31 <ln-> Bjarni: Which one is your favorite turtle?
22:32:13 <Bjarni> what kind of question if that???
22:33:33 <Bjarni> are you drunk or high or something?
22:33:44 <Tyr_Arcana> that it is, but I'm new here, so didn't feel like saying that =)
22:34:17 <Bjarni> I still have no idea what he meant by that question
22:34:31 <Bjarni> ln-: are you on some sort of medication?
22:35:25 <Bjarni> maybe you should switch to something else
22:38:48 <Tyr_Arcana> hmm.. anyways, thanx for the help with that little problem of mine, take care and such, I'm off for the night methinks
22:38:54 <ln-> Besides, it's a completely normal question.
22:39:24 <Bjarni> then explain your question
22:43:13 <ln-> Sacro: Which one is your favorite turtle?
22:47:31 <Bjarni> don't ask him such tricky questions
22:47:37 <Bjarni> his head might explode
22:48:07 <Bjarni> and then people expect the op to clean up and I'm pretty sure TrueBrain didn't code DorpsGek to do it
22:49:10 <Bjarni> I would have, but I tend to do stuff differently
22:55:21 <Bjarni> <sac|metal|werk> anyway, star wars is real and star trek is some made up bs
22:55:41 <Bjarni> it's the other way around
22:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's all real!!!
22:56:11 <Tefad> they're both too goofy to actually work.
22:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> noooooo!!! *head explodes*
22:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> sorry, i can't go down to that level of spelling...
22:59:38 <Bjarni> I still wonder what you tried to say
22:59:42 <Nite> sry but anti matter is real as used in starship enterprise ;p
23:00:42 <Nite> while star wars i a simple farytale - prince saves princess and homeland story ...
23:01:09 <ln-> star wars holiday special
23:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> now you want to tell me Lord of the Rings is not real either...
23:01:47 <Nite> is there such a thing as unreal?
23:02:00 <Nite> its a real fantasy story
23:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, it's a game
23:03:58 <Bjarni> <W-ll-am> well its nearly working
23:03:58 <Bjarni> <BoltBait> You are aware, code that ALMOST works looks NOTHING like the code that ACTUALLY works.
23:03:58 <Bjarni> <W-ll-am> dont tell me that, its due tomorrow
23:05:58 <Bjarni> I once had to write an app in C, but I didn't have anything but notepad when I wrote it (don't ask). I wrote those 3 pages of code and once I was done, I could move it to a computer with a compiler and it just worked
23:06:15 <Bjarni> and nobody ever found any bugs in it
23:06:50 <Nite> *thinks of world without software bugs*
23:07:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> THAT is not real :p
23:07:05 <Bjarni> and then the dream ended
23:07:52 <Bjarni> <Nite> *thinks of world without software bugs* <--- well.... the stoneage would be just right for you :P
23:08:42 <Nite> im not even dreaming bout it - was a elusive thought
23:09:03 <ln-> have you people noticed that software is in control of our lives already?
23:10:43 <Nite> nothign special about it we always used tools to survive - be it a slingshot or computer
23:11:54 <ln-> i've encountered way too many things over here... things that have changed to worse, not because of a change of policy, but because "the new software doesn't support this and that".
23:12:52 <Nite> thats still a fault of bureaucracy
23:13:32 <Nite> the technic it self isnt bad - just ppl can be unkind.
23:14:07 <ln-> like in a local bus; earlier one could purchase 9 days of travel with 10€ on the bus. now that's not possible anymore, because the software of the new devices doesn't support charging other periods than a whole month.
23:14:53 <Nite> you wouldnt assume that your slingshot is a bad thing just because it dont supports mammoth killing.
23:15:31 <ln-> earlier one could have a bus card that could both have credits for individual, random trips, as well as a certain number of days. now one must choose one of the two, or have two physical cards.
23:16:03 <Nite> whole month tickets only is miserable.
23:16:43 <Nite> what a strange bus system where do u live?
23:17:37 <ln-> it's not that strange, except for the new software limitations.
23:18:02 <Nite> the whole (new) money system(s) begin(s) to suck anyway
23:19:17 <Nite> still software was invented by someone and therefore WE control software and not the other way around.
23:19:55 <Nite> you are controlled by other humans not software - get that.
23:20:47 <ln-> earlier paying the rent where i live was easy, once a year an A4 sheet was delivered with all the necessary per-month information on it. one could also automate the whole process with a few mouse clicks on the web bank.
23:21:34 <Nite> imean automate the process
23:21:54 <Nite> and what do you have 2 do then?
23:22:19 <ln-> then they switched to a completely new system. the damn rent bills arrive no more than a week before they should be paid. and automating the process the same way it was done earlier is not possible, because this new system DOES NOT SUPPORT IT.
23:22:50 <Nite> and how do you pay then?
23:24:17 <ln-> no, through the web bank or whatever method you choose to interact with your own bank.
23:25:06 <Nite> whats so bad bout interacting with own bank - dont get it ...
23:25:27 <Nite> (still, yes, there are people bhind it all)
23:26:58 <ln-> you cannot automate paying the bill anymore, because the software of the foundation that the rent is paid to doesn't support automated payments anymore.
23:27:38 <Nite> so you have to walk to you bank every month and pay cash or what - HOW do you pay?
23:28:18 <ln-> earlier you could enter the required data once, and with a few additional clicks choose to automate the whole process, and you basically didn't need to do any work after that, the money was just taken from your account automatically every month.
23:30:24 <ln-> no, i walk to my web browser and enter my own bank's web site, and pay the bill. but i have to do that every fucking month, and i don't ever have the required info for two months at a time, so i cannot schedule more payments at once.
23:30:34 <Nite> its 21th century not stoneage but message.
23:31:40 <ln-> i didn't understand that sentence.
23:32:23 <Nite> paying manually every month is really awkward.
23:33:40 <Nite> i mean i live in a oldfashioned country but this is possible everywhere ...
23:34:10 <ln-> this automated payment thing is offered by almost all companies to which people pay something regularly. so it is basically offered by the bank(s), but the receiver of payments must have a system that supports it.
23:34:11 <Nite> strange enaugh you have 2 buy most cars in cash here :-o
23:34:48 <Sionide> my rent goes out as a standing order each month, on it's own
23:35:03 <ln-> it might very well be called direct debit in english...
23:35:11 <Nite> sry but even i can eccept automated payment - yust everyone who has a bank account CAN do that
23:35:24 <Nite> they yust dont want it, what reason ever ...
23:35:27 <Sionide> Nite, that's a standing order, not a direct debit
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23:36:04 <Nite> i also accept a "standing order".
23:36:21 <ln-> over here i'd say it is very uncommon to buy a car with cash, if one is buying it from a car shop.
23:36:22 <Nite> you haven't answered where this is?
23:36:56 <Nite> yeah it is uncommon but you literalyl go with a bag of cas to many cardealers.
23:37:08 <Nite> at least no software gets in the way this way.
23:37:24 <Sionide> cars are expensive, i'd never walk around with that kinda cash in a bag
23:37:44 <ln-> but these stupidities cannot be generalized to cover finland as a whole.
23:38:02 <Nite> same with cardealers here ...
23:38:39 <Nite> i basically think finland might habve good systems for doing a living.
23:39:35 <ln-> over here, i think, the procedure goes like this: you go to the car shop, you pay something (like a few hundred euros, possibly using a card, not cash), you get a bill with you and you drive the car home.
23:41:20 <Nite> waht ever payment methods - wed be lucky to have teh "money".
23:42:15 <ln-> i can't imagine how can having e.g. 100k€ cash at your shop be very practical.
23:43:08 <AmiXwoktest> seems like my Nokia E90
23:43:15 <AmiXwoktest> got PowerVR 3D chip
23:43:34 <AmiXwoktest> thats the same 3D chip as in Dreamcast ;=)
23:43:46 <Nite> (my client dont reads the euro symbol)
23:44:18 <Nite> havent thought abaout that - myght be lukrative to rob cardealers ;)
23:44:53 <Nite> no its not broken it just DONT SUPPORTS THIS *argh*
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