IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-08-30
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04:31:46 <DaleStan> TrueBrain, MiHaMiX: The creation of the symlinks in nightly.ttdpatch.net/latest seems to have failed again. (And what is the proper method of reporting this problem?)
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06:12:12 <blathijs> DaleStan: If you mean nightly.openttd.org, telling MiHaMiX or TrueBrain should suffice
06:12:30 <blathijs> DaleStan: If you really mean nightly.ttdpatch.net, you should ask elsewhere :-)
06:29:44 <peter1138> blathijs: why? TrueBrain admins both...
06:37:07 <blathijs> peter1138: He does? Hmm, that's new for me :-)
07:01:35 <Greyscale> any way to shut the splash screen up?
07:02:16 <Kloopy> Turn off your speakers. :)
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08:19:46 <Kloopy> It's either that or just play the game! :)
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08:44:56 <TrueBrain> DaleStan: a PM to me is the proper method
08:45:28 <TrueBrain> and yeah, blathijs, aint it suprising :) TTDP uses the compile-farm I created :)
08:46:13 <TrueBrain> DaleStan: how did the symlinks fail?
08:47:31 <TrueBrain> they seem perfectly fine
08:48:48 <TrueBrain> hmm, there is once again a nice diskspace problem :) Haha
08:49:22 <Kloopy> I never played the original TT or TTD, but have become incredibly addicted to OpenTTD this past couple of weeks. For the past few days I've been using a nightly for some of the lovely new additions... how often are code updates done, ie is it worth downloading the new nightlies daily or weekly or monthly, etc?
08:50:14 <TrueBrain> Kloopy: depends very much on many factors :)
08:53:36 <Rubidium> Kloopy: but the general rule is: every night unless nothing has happened since the previous nightly (i.e. nobody has committed something to trunk)
08:53:54 <Kloopy> Is there a way to see what's been commited to source control?
08:54:33 <Kloopy> And also, I'm loving the new 32bbp feature, but related I can't find where I can set the refresh rate in full screen mode. Is this possible?
08:55:05 <Kloopy> Apologies, that's in the FAQ.
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09:21:47 <Rubidium> Greyscale: just remove any opntitle.dat (will give you a nice blue intro screen)
09:27:56 <Greyscale> Kloopy, how do you use 32bpp?
09:28:23 <Kloopy> On Windows add -b 32bpp-simple when you run the game.
09:28:57 <TrueBrain> on any platform, add -b 32bpp-simple to run
09:29:06 <TrueBrain> or -b 32bpp-anim if you love pallete animation
09:31:26 <Kloopy> Is there a way mid-game to remove the AI players and their constructions? I have basically "won" this game and now I'd like to try making some nice tracks and junctions in "sandbox" mode but I'd like to keep the tracks I've currently got.
09:32:42 <Rubidium> start the game in a MP server an kill the companies?
09:33:03 <Kloopy> I've not used multiplayer mode before, I'll give it a bash. :)
09:45:20 <Kloopy> "reset_company 2" gives "ERROR: Company is owned by an AI."
09:45:35 <Kloopy> I've joined the MP game with another client to company-id 2 and it still thinks it's AI controlled.
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11:14:53 <Nickman> Not much activity in here?
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11:37:23 <Nickman> no more progress on BrikLand or the NoAI Branch?
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12:02:43 <elmex> is there any usecase for timetables?
12:03:10 <elmex> i mean: how do they offer me an advantage over trivial orders like 'full load' and such?
12:04:34 <Rubidium> you can schedule all traffic in such a manner that they never have to wait for red signals and such
12:04:53 <Rubidium> or that there is always a vehicle waiting at a station
12:05:10 <Rubidium> but never a long queue of vehicles waiting in front of a station
12:06:59 <elmex> i don't really understand how :)
12:11:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11002 /trunk/src/ (cargopacket.cpp cargopacket.h station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: unhackify the cargo packet list saving (a little).
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12:36:58 <elmex> does mixing of transferred cargo with non-transfered cargo work yet? it seems as it doesnt.
12:42:01 <Rubidium> elmex: what version?
12:42:34 <elmex> it works if i transport to a station that also receives from a coal mine directly?
12:42:54 <Rubidium> you just don't see it as it doesn't show a line for each and every source destination of the cargo
12:43:47 <Rubidium> but at a transfer station you can see the source of the cargo in the cargo list change when trains are loading
12:44:33 <elmex> when the stuff is transfered, when do i get the money?
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12:45:43 <Rubidium> when you deliver it at the final station, though the intermediate vehicles get "virtual" money so the rating calculations sees that the vehicles actually are not losing money
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12:50:56 <elmex> then it still doesn't work.
12:58:03 <_Ben_> glorious until you want to know the quickest route. Line length has no corralation to journey time
12:58:45 <TrueBrain> _Ben_: check bottom right of image
12:59:53 <Greyscale> Its a chav underground map.
12:59:57 <Greyscale> Its burberry patterened
12:59:58 <TrueBrain> it is a bad 'joke' anyway
13:00:33 <Greyscale> Also: Firefox 2.0.0.3
13:00:54 <_Ben_> ha, hmm I actually thourght it was plausable that councils/governements would stick something that patronising up
13:01:02 <TrueBrain> the only thing I found amuzing about the picture was: Statsion with wheelchair access for one direction of travel only
13:01:04 <_Ben_> there good at missing the point of things
13:01:26 <Greyscale> TrueBrain, to trap the cripples into being beaten by roving hoards of chavs
13:04:09 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11003 /trunk/src/ (21 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: replace Vehicle->next to Vehicle->Next() and Vehicle->SetNext() so we can trap instances that change a next pointer and (in the future) update the first/previous pointers based on that.
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13:09:57 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11004 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Codechange: some reworks of the saveload mechanism to be able to save and load private and protected variables in the vehicle struct.
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14:31:44 <frosch123> Hmm, who shall I ask about FS#944?
14:34:05 <Rubidium> I'd go for peter1138 as he noticed them being wrong, so he should be able to see when they're right.
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17:04:58 <SmatZ> may I speak here about a way to crash the server by a client?
17:05:26 <SmatZ> at least in 0.5.2, 0.5 branch, now I will test trunk...
17:05:56 <Bjarni> we don't want some jerk to crash all 0.5.2 servers
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17:17:27 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11005 /trunk/src/ (12 files):
17:17:27 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: move the tiletype specific terraforming checks to the functions for those tile types.
17:17:27 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: barren the rail grounds on terraforming.
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18:30:29 <Rubidium> a new nightly binary?
18:35:22 <svip> Lots of good patch names.
18:35:23 <peter1138> newnothingtoseehere?
18:35:41 <svip> "This patch does absolutely nothing."
18:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> newthesearenotthedroidsthatyouseek?
18:37:40 <peter1138> but not as much as a sppon
18:40:08 <Prof_Frink> 'cause that's more use for eating soup!
18:41:56 <orudge> peter1138! newproffrink!
18:42:08 * orudge goes back to the future
18:42:44 <Eddi|zuHause> in the year 2000?
18:44:11 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: Just two days time
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19:20:28 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11006 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix: spectators are not allowed to issue commands. Issue spotted by SmatZ.
19:21:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11007 /branches/0.5/network_server.c:
19:21:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r11006)
19:21:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: spectators are not allowed to issue commands (r11006)
19:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> am i the only person seeing an inconsistency between that commit and the statement from 19:05?
19:27:43 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: needs a modified client
19:27:43 <Rubidium> it doesn't crash all servers (at least not immediatelly)
19:28:40 <Rubidium> and you still do not know how to actually exploit this; you might get an idea how to exploit it, but you do not get the exploit handed in giftwrappings
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19:37:01 <SmatZ> Rubidium: thanks for the credit@
19:37:48 <svip> Where contestants writes C code.
19:37:55 <svip> And then we try to compile their code.
19:38:18 <svip> But what they don't know, is that we have not included some standard libraries!
19:39:20 <svip> Contestants. Your task today is to write a program that sorts unsorted log files.
19:39:30 <svip> On your seats, get ready, code!
19:39:57 <guru3> does it matter how long it takes to sort? :D
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19:40:02 <Rubidium> find / -iname "*.log" | xargs cat | sort
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19:41:23 <Smoovious> Halcyon & On & On plays in the background while the contestants code
19:42:04 <svip> Welcome back, viewers. Our contestants have been coding throughout the break. And now the time is nearly up.
19:42:18 <svip> Contestants, put away your fingers.
19:42:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11008 /branches/0.5/network_server.c: [0.5] -Fix (r11007): CTRL-S (save) and CTRL-Z (undo) shouldn't be pressed simultaniously before committing.
19:42:55 <svip> And today, we did not include stdio.h, ah, I can see some of the contestants cursing.
19:43:37 <svip> And as a twist, we are going to compile it for an ARM CPU, and attempt to run it on a Linux implantation on an iPod. Where we have placed an unsorted log file.
19:44:22 <svip> What's that, Jim? The gcc arm compiler doesn't work? Well, then they all lost.
19:44:25 <guru3> might as well require them to build an program an interface to the ipod at that point
19:44:44 <svip> Come back next week, when we trick four more programmers to think they are on a game show where they can actually win!
19:45:10 <SmatZ> svip you should sell your idea to some TV company :)
19:45:26 <Smoovious> looks like one contestant forgot his line-ending conversion and isn't even parsing... what a tragedy for him
19:46:56 <guru3> you're almost making me want to program D:
19:47:19 <svip> Want to see C code float in front of you?
19:47:25 <guru3> not something to sort log files, thank god
19:47:45 <guru3> had to write something to combine multiple ordered log files into one already
19:48:27 <svip> Sorting isn't that hard.
19:49:45 <svip> The show's title was "Will It Compile?"
19:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "for every input array, lossy sort will output the array [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]"
19:50:16 <svip> And what if 4 is not in my input array?
19:50:39 <guru3> well on the second show, you should tell them to build a hello world program in c
19:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause> what is so hard to understand about this specification?!
19:51:34 <guru3> it's like a calculator that doesn't have a concept of zero
19:51:45 <guru3> you either have it or you have more of it
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20:10:15 <svip> Is there some way to check what sort of road is on a tile?
20:11:47 <glx> slopped road is normal road on a slopped tile
20:12:47 <svip> How do I check if a tile is slopped?
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20:13:22 <peter1138> GetTileSlope or something
20:13:50 <glx> GetTileSlope(t, NULL) != SLOPE_FLAT
20:15:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i have some weird kind of déjà vu...
20:15:28 <svip> But that also returns true if the road is flat, but still on a slopped tile.
20:15:37 <svip> Like built along the slope.
20:15:53 <glx> you mean with foundations
20:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> then compare the road direction with the slope direction...
20:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> funnily, checkinf for foundations will not suffice :)
20:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> as a road can be both sloped and on a foundation :)
20:17:00 <svip> :/ What if the slope direction is different from the road direction, but the road still actually goes up/down.
20:17:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that can only happen on tiles where only one corner is raised, then you have two possible slope directions
20:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the solution is simple, just check for the road bit on the lower edges of the slope
20:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and watch out for steep slopes :p
20:19:27 <svip> What *are* steep slopes?
20:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> tiles where the steep slope bit is set...
20:20:50 <svip> The difference between usual slopes?
20:21:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that the highest corner is 2 levels above the lowest (diametrically opposite) corner
20:22:30 <Rubidium> GetSlope should give the slope with foundations (I think)
20:24:22 <svip> Sadly there is no such function, Rubidium. :O
20:25:36 <Rubidium> oh, never mind, GetSlopeZ was what I meant and that gives only heights
20:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> there must already be similar checks to find out how the tile should be drawn
20:30:52 <svip> How do I make something like "a = b|c"?
20:31:07 <svip> Or can that be written shorter?
20:32:03 <SmatZ> I don't know about any shorter version
20:32:51 <Rubidium> depends on the values of b and c and the other possible values for a
20:33:44 <glx> you can use GetRoadFoundation() with GetRoadBits() and GetTileSlope()
20:34:10 <svip> I am just trying to figure out how to put that in one if statement.
20:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause> in pascal you had a "set of" type, and you could do "a in [b,c]" if they are from an integer or enum type with not more than 256 elements
20:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe pascal is a tiny bit older than python :p
20:35:43 <glx> IsFoundation(GetRoadFoundation(GetTileSlope(t,NULL),GetAllRoadBits(t)))
20:36:40 <svip> Will it also return true if the slope slopes the same way as the road?
20:37:11 <glx> it returns true if the road has foundations
20:37:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but like i said, there are also sloped foundations
20:40:56 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11009 /trunk/src/ (12 files): -Codechange: unvirtualise IsValid as that isn't needed with templates. This gives up to 10% performance increase in games with lots of vehicles.
20:57:53 <Eddi|zuHause> a proper alias analysis would optimise such unnecessary virtualisations away
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20:59:56 <svip> I cannot see where this function is defined.
20:59:57 <svip> _tile_type_procs[tt]->draw_tile_proc(&ti);
21:00:03 <svip> The draw_tile_proc is a pointer.
21:01:57 <Rubidium> it's a function pointer
21:02:26 <Rubidium> and _tile_type_procs is a table with structs that contain function pointers. These structs are filled in *_cmd.cpp
21:02:57 <svip> But... when is it pointed at something?
21:03:22 <Rubidium> in *_cmd.cpp (usually at the end of the file)
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21:03:44 <Rubidium> end of clear_cmd.cpp for example
21:04:20 <Greyscale> Request: Raised rail
21:04:37 <Greyscale> like, so I actually have a hope in hell of running rail into a large city
21:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Greyscale: depends on "new map array" :p
21:04:56 <Rubidium> Closed: Duplicate of <don't know anymore>
21:07:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: bjarni * r11010 /branches/0.5/ (6 files in 4 dirs): [0.5] -Prepare 0.5 branch for release of 0.5.3-RC3.
21:11:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11011 /trunk/src/ (10 files):
21:11:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1129]: GetFirstVehicleInChain did change the game state while being marked const.
21:11:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: do not brute force determine the first vehicle in the chain or
21:11:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: previous vehicle, but do it by properly accounting the previous and first
21:11:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: pointers when updating the next pointer. This gives a performance increase of
21:11:27 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: about 15% when there are a lot of vehicles in the game.
21:14:11 <SmatZ> there is a problem - when a vehicle (aircraft) is autoreplaced while it is unloading ( and gradual loading is on), you will get paid twice
21:14:27 <SmatZ> only in 0.5 branch, solved with cargo packes
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21:15:33 <SmatZ> maybe a simple to solve by setting some flag in v->vehicle_flags
21:16:32 <Rubidium> that requires an awfull lot of micromanagement to profit from
21:16:56 <Progman> how do you create these upgoing money-indicators?
21:16:59 <glx> and gradual loading has been improved in trunk
21:19:01 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: bjarni * r11012 /tags/0.5.3-RC3/ (6 files): -Release 0.5.3-RC3
21:22:49 <SmatZ> +0.5.3-RC3 (2007-30-07) <--- August is 8th month
21:23:09 <svip> That reads the 30th month.
21:23:23 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yes, exactly my though :) [23:15:45] <SmatZ> maybe a simple to solve by setting some flag in v->vehicle_flags
21:23:25 <svip> Sane timeformats are either YYYY-MM-DD or DD-MM-YYYY
21:23:31 <svip> There exists no other sane timeformats.
21:24:04 <Bjarni> crap, I made a typo :(
21:24:26 <orudge> Heh, I was just wondering when we might have a new version of OpenTTD
21:24:49 <orudge> the OS/2 build shall have to wait until Saturday, alas.
21:24:54 <orudge> for I must go to bed, as I'm away tomorrow
21:25:32 <SmatZ> Rubidium: I will test it
21:28:38 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yes, it solves the problem!
21:33:43 * Rubidium wonders why people always come with bugs just after the release
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21:38:05 <SmatZ> Rubidium: I would like to say something, bu I just don't know :-x
21:38:25 <tokai> what about "Sorry!" ? :P
21:39:29 <Bjarni> "Sorry" isn't a word in the modern dictionary :P
21:40:25 <SmatZ> Sorry, I just recalled that problem before the release, then I verified it, but then it was too late
21:40:37 <SmatZ> Bjarni: how do you mean?
21:42:34 <SmatZ> today I have said "sorry" too many times, it would not be a good idea to overuse it...
21:42:43 <SmatZ> better safe than sorry :-p
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21:45:08 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> Bjarni: how do you mean? <--- too many people tries to screw other people instead of being nice :s
21:45:20 <Bjarni> michi_cc: are you done uploading?
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22:06:47 <Progman> seriously, there must be more documentations
22:07:11 <XeryusTC> like that will ever happen with OTTD
22:08:02 <glx> Progman: write it and post a patch :)
22:08:32 <Progman> I can't do it all alone ;)
22:09:14 <glx> little doc improvement is better than none
22:09:47 <Progman> I did already but its getting complicated
22:10:12 <Progman> and the map.h/cpp doc-patch isn't implemented in trunk :(
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22:13:05 <svip> Now it works as it should.
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22:21:40 <Bjarni> ok, 0.5.3-RC3 is out of the bag
22:21:56 <Bjarni> now we will see what people will say about it
22:23:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it is so feature-less :p
22:23:51 <Bjarni> yet it should be pretty stable and bug free
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22:30:28 <SmatZ> omg how hard is it to bankrupt??
22:30:48 <glx> I always fail when I want to
22:31:16 <SmatZ> i have 40 buses running nowhere, -1 000 000, performance 0
22:31:25 <SmatZ> I had several "Company is going to bancrupt
22:31:36 <SmatZ> but I didn't bancrupt yet
22:31:48 <svip> <@Bjarni> yet it should be pretty stable and bug free << Duh?
22:31:57 <svip> Less features, more stability is automatic.
22:32:26 <SmatZ> really, what is the easiest way to bankrupt?
22:32:31 <SmatZ> I want to test something...
22:36:32 <Eddi|zuHause> svip: not if the feature is stability :p
22:37:05 <svip> It's not a bug, it's a feature.
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22:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "Gute Reise." [that's from the "Ich möchte diesen Teppich nicht kaufen." commercial]
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22:51:13 <Greyscale> whats that all about?
22:57:34 <SmatZ> /* XXX - If we are in offline mode, leave the player playing. Eg. there
22:57:34 <SmatZ> * is no THE-END, otherwise mark the player as spectator to make sure
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23:05:18 <SmatZ> there are nice things in buying/selling companies
23:06:06 <SmatZ> // Else, falltrue to case 4...
23:10:19 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> there are nice things in buying/selling companies <-- like: they crash network games
23:10:35 <Bjarni> it's disabled in MP (in case you missed that fact)
23:17:00 <svip> This article is fantastic!
23:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i am not gonna read that, as it possibly contains real spoilers...
23:26:28 <svip> It's filled with spoilers.
23:26:34 <svip> :> That's why it is awesome.
23:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and that is why i am not gonna read it
23:27:05 <svip> Well... spoiler alert! It's quite funny.
23:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause> because spoilers are fucking morons...
23:27:55 <svip> Spoilers are not people.
23:30:06 *** Digitalfox_Notebook has joined #openttd
23:34:49 <SmatZ> any dev here? I found a nice bug and I am very excited about it ^_^
23:37:46 <Priski-> there is bugtracker for them
23:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> svip: ok, then you are a fucking moron...
23:38:24 <svip> Why are you suddenly so pissed?
23:38:35 <SmatZ> Priski-: I am not sure if I should put it on the bugtracker
23:39:18 <Priski-> you don't know if it is a bug or a feature? :)
23:39:24 *** Priski- is now known as Priski
23:52:09 <Eddi|zuHause> svip: because people posting spoilers should be shot on sight
23:52:35 <svip> People not warning first.
23:52:56 <svip> And not mention, you realised it yourself.
23:53:07 <svip> So you are contradiction yourself.
23:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> but i am not the only person reading this channel...
23:54:20 <svip> The other persons can read as well.
23:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and it is not to me to figure out to not read spoilers, it is to you to not post spoilers in the first place
23:55:47 * Eddi|zuHause would kickban Sacro, but someone did not promote me that far yet :p
23:56:16 <Bjarni> Famous Spoilers (Such as *** Killing ***) <-- fuck.... I didn't know that
23:56:33 <Bjarni> so don't click that link if you don't want to know :s
23:56:37 * Sacro keeps reading things he didn't know
23:57:07 <svip> Even I knew that without reading spoiler pages or the book, Bjarni.
23:57:59 <Eddi|zuHause> could you _PLEASE_ take that discussion elsewhere?
continue to next day ⏵
