IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-08-29
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00:02:40 * you should go to bed right away
00:05:00 <MrBrrr> Adding some realism does mean a lot of work, hmmm.
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00:32:43 <Belugas> [20:05] <MrBrrr> Adding some realism does mean a lot of work, hmmm. <---- one of the reasons I HATE "realism" ;)
00:32:58 <Belugas> good night me too, me saying to all of you :)
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08:20:29 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: bjarni * r10996 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
08:20:29 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Feature: [OSX] added more options for right click emulation (controlled from the interface tab in the patch window)
08:20:30 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: This only works with the cocoa drivers (you will use the cocoa drivers unless you manually switched to SDL and compiled yourself)
08:20:30 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: Note: if control-click is selected, then the ingame control-click (like presignals and such) will be command-click
08:20:30 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: Requested and tested by ln- (so he should be blamed if this goes wrong :P )
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09:41:13 <Bjarni> wow, this channel have been swarmed with Danes lately
09:44:05 <ln-_> maybe denmark has established a connection to this Internet that the rest of the world has been using since 90's.
09:45:03 <Bjarni> naa, I would have known such a change
09:45:21 <Bjarni> btw ln-_: you are mentioned in the changelog. Aren't you happy?
09:46:04 <ln-_> i'm also mentioned in irssi changelog. i'm famous.
09:46:35 <Bjarni> well, right now I just wanted someone to blame if it went wrong and you appeared as the best candidate for this task
09:46:59 <Bjarni> why are you in the irssi changelog?
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11:33:20 <Sacro> mmm, shall i do some more sprites
11:53:13 * peter1138 ponders upgrading to hardy heron
12:01:16 <Sacro> peter1138: Linux From Scratch 6.3 is out!
12:09:40 <peter1138> blah, qemu crashes :(
12:09:53 <peter1138> hmm, only with kqemu
12:10:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> !calc 1532281/3600
12:10:24 <_42_> Eddi|zuHause3: 425.6336111111;
12:10:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> !calc 1532281/3600/24
12:10:34 <_42_> Eddi|zuHause3: 17.7347337962;
12:11:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is an awful lot of time for one package :p
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12:47:29 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: is that 17 *DAYS*?
12:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> more like 18 ;)
12:49:08 <Sacro> it takes dedication i suppose
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13:45:40 <Kloopy> I've just been browsing the wiki and can't find what I'm looking for.. I've got a Metropolitan airport that I want to upgrade to an International one. How do I do this without breaking the route of my 8 or 9 aircraft visiting this airport?
13:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> Kloopy: find a time where no aircraft is on the airport, remove it, and build a new one
13:48:34 <Kloopy> IF it has the same name as the old one, do my aircraft still find it?
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13:50:30 <Progman> if you delete a station the name will be there for some time as gray-label, if you place the new station there the name (and the orders) will used
13:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you don't place the new airport too far away from the old one, all orders will be kept
13:56:03 <Kloopy> Thanks for your help Eddi, Progman. :)
13:57:29 <Sacro> i think ./configure --build=i486-mingw32
13:59:19 <Sacro> i have no freetype package installed :(
13:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> --without-freetype?
14:00:56 <Sacro> just installing mingw32-libpmg
14:02:49 <Sacro> nobody flagged libpng as depending on zlib
14:05:11 <Sacro> well the guy who wrote the package didn't put it as a needed dependancy
14:19:40 <Sacro> thats an awful lot of errors
14:20:14 <Sacro> yapf/yapf_ship.o:yapf_ship.cpp:(.text$_ZN16CYapfFollowShipTI16CYapfShip_TypesTI10CYapfShip213CFollowTrackTIL13TransportType2ELb1EE20CNodeList_HashTableTI14CYapfShipNodeTI19CYapfNodeKeyExitDirELi14ELi16EEEE15ChooseShipTrackEP7Vehiclej13DiagDirection9TrackBits[CYapfFollowShipT<CYapfShip_TypesT<CYapfShip2, CFollowTrackT<(TransportType)2, true>, CNodeList_HashTableT<CYapfShipNodeT<CYapfNodeKeyExitDir>, 14, 16> > >::ChooseShipTrack(Vehicle*, u
14:20:14 <Sacro> nsigned int, DiagDirection, TrackBits)]+0x1a82): more undefined references to `operator delete[](void*)' follow
14:20:23 <Sacro> looks like g++ isn't happy
14:21:54 <Sacro> i want to dump stderr to a text file
14:24:56 <MrBrrr> Changing one thing sometimes means quite a lot of work x_x
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14:27:41 <Sacro> where is $(MAKE) defined
14:29:46 <Sacro> it doesn't seem to be able to link g++ stuff
14:30:01 <ln-_> make doesn't link stuff.
14:30:35 <Sacro> but it calls the linker
14:32:13 <MrBrrr> Any train buffs around?
14:32:17 <MrBrrr> I have one or two questions.
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14:37:58 <ln-_> Sacro: without the actual linking command that output is not very useful.
14:38:15 <Sacro> how do i find the linking command?
14:38:34 <ln-> ask the dummies who decided to hide the commands.
14:39:25 <Sacro> i486-mingw32-g++ -mno-cygwin -Wl,--subsystem,windows -static rev.o ai/ai.o
14:40:04 <Sacro> shouldn't it be calling ld?
14:40:21 <Sacro> ottdres.o -lstdc++ -lws2_32 -lwinmm -lgdi32 -ldxguid -lole32 /usr/lib/libz.a -L/usr/lib -lpng12 -lz -lm -o openttd.exe
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14:42:13 <Sacro> but theres no way to specify the lib dir via ./configure
14:42:51 <glx> ./configure --help should tell it too
14:44:26 <Sacro> and it quite niftily ignores them
14:45:28 <Sacro> [ben@server trunk]$ LDCONFIG=-L/usr/i486-mingw32/lib ./configure --host=i486-mingw32 --without-freetype
14:45:34 <Sacro> using LDFLAGS... -lstdc++ -lws2_32 -lwinmm -lgdi32 -ldxguid -lole32 /usr/lib/libz.a -L/usr/lib -lpng12 -lz -lm -mno-cygwin -Wl,--subsystem,windows -static
14:45:58 <Sacro> help if i spelt it right
14:46:45 <Sacro> i'm used to CFLAGS AND CXXFLAGS
14:46:58 <MrBrrr> I've got a question: can electric trains go in reverse? (IRL)
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14:55:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> germany had steam engine that could be controlled from a drivers cab at the other end of the train
14:57:05 <MrBrrr> Wouldn't that mean that they'd be "blind" while going forward and/of backwards?
14:57:28 <glx> the driver is still in front of train
14:57:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, the driver goes to the end that will be the front
14:57:57 <MrBrrr> Will it go as fast in reverse?
14:58:03 <MrBrrr> I mean, if it's pushing the wagons?
14:58:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, it's pretty symmetric
14:59:56 <glx> MrBrrr: never used subway ?
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15:02:56 <MrBrrr> But I never actually wondered about it all.
15:04:13 <MrBrrr> Especially with modern subways.
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15:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> pretty much all modern trains are now built with a drivers cab at the other end
15:13:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's one of the most missing "realism" features of ottd...
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15:14:52 <ln-> notice how german trains do not have mirrors.
15:16:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> the "train leader" always stands on the platform giving starting signal
15:17:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> there's no need for mirrors
15:18:23 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: even in freight trains?
15:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have no idea about freight trains
15:20:39 <MrBrrr> I'm trying to find out how to remove that automatic "turn-around" trains do in TTD.
15:20:53 <MrBrrr> Without creating an even bigger "realism" problem.
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15:23:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, not turning the train around is probably easy, just declare the last wagon as "front engine", with all cached data etc., and update all "first" pointers of the vehicles
15:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> the next problem is disallowing that for trains where it is not realistic
15:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> and then allow switching the engine at terminus stations, without turning the wagons
15:25:17 <MrBrrr> Anywho, off to campus. Cya all later.
15:28:37 <ln-> i have also tried making trains not turn when reversing, but without much success.
15:28:54 <ln-> i ended up having wagons travel alone, etc.
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15:46:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> someone is awfully bored, i believe :p
15:49:40 <AntB> Ammler was just seeing about max nixk lengths
15:50:19 <Ammler> oh, sry, didn't thought about that happens on every channel
15:51:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> why not simply look at the "NICKLEN=30" entry in the server window?
15:52:24 <ln-> Ammler: why not try /nick 0 ?
16:07:57 <skidd13> Has someone of the dev's concerned oneself with FS1166 ?
16:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> oh dear apostrophe...
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16:28:29 <skidd13> Nobody's perfect... Hmm... *MAD MODE ON* Everybody needs a bitch to abuse. So for the moment the english language is mine ATM :D *MAD MODE OFF*
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16:31:29 <skidd13> Don't take me serious for the moment. Need something to let off steam (damned term paper)
16:32:17 <AntB> lol, apostrphes are best with its
16:32:25 <skidd13> Noldo: Watched too much "Crank"?
16:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> oh right, that's the movie i could only describe with the word "krank" [german, meaning 'sick'] :p
16:45:00 <skidd13> Eddi|zuHause3: check. But a damn good movie.
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17:03:56 <svip> We gonna need a montage. Ooo, it takes a montage.
17:05:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> "Ich hasse Montage!"
17:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> is it that obvious? :p
17:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> PS: the above sentence means "i hate mondays"
17:10:10 <svip> Montage is a film technique.
17:10:15 <svip> The English word at least.
17:10:34 <svip> One of the most obscure film techniques though.
17:11:59 <svip> What controls which tool is currently selected?
17:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> how would i know...
17:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> and yes, "Montage" was kind of a play on words
17:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> it only works in german, though
17:34:19 <Phazorx> "montage" is actualy french as i recal
17:34:47 <Phazorx> but "du hasst montage" does sound kinda interesting :)
17:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, that's the other half of the play on words, the meaning of the totally unrelated french derived word...
17:35:29 <Belugas> "du hasst montage" sounds almost like Rammstein :D
17:36:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, but they used a different play on words :)
17:36:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> their play on words involved "du hasst" [you hate] and "du hast" [you have]
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17:38:01 <Belugas> interesting how just a single letter can totalyy change the meaning of a sentence :)
17:38:58 <Phazorx> are they still using double ss character in german?
17:39:17 <Phazorx> the one that looks like beta
17:39:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> actually, double ss is the new spelling
17:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> old spellingis "du haßt"
17:40:02 <Phazorx> i was under impression that was "provintial" dialectial differences
17:40:10 <Phazorx> or it is completely standartized now?
17:40:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> german spelling has been standardised since 1901
17:41:05 <Phazorx> and both ways are acceptable ?
17:41:26 <Phazorx> when i was studing it, ß was the only way
17:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> usage of ß has been discouraged in the early days of computer processing, because they could not use the letter
17:42:11 <Phazorx> heh thanks to ebsdic/ibm
17:42:31 <Phazorx> they did save 2 bits tho
17:43:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> there the usage diverged in east and west, while in west germany, ß was replaced by ss, it was replaced by sz in east germany
17:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> so when the computers could handle the letter, the east german way could easily be reversed
17:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> as sz is hardly used in written language
17:44:09 <Phazorx> heh find / * |sed s/sz/ß/
17:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> so ß was in common use in east germany, while the west germans used it less
17:45:12 <Phazorx> naturaly i studied east german then... umlauts probably have been supressed as well in early computer era?
17:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> so in the 1996 spelling reform, official usage of ß got reduced (but not abolished (except in switzerland))
17:45:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> (((yay for standards))) :p
17:45:29 <svip> At least I know now that when a tool selected, _place_proc is set.
17:45:37 <svip> Actually, it points to a function.
17:45:46 <svip> So how do I check if it is not pointing at anything?
17:46:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> Phazorx: actually, no, "umlauts" were replaced with "ae", "oe", "ue", and that could be replaced on both sides equally
17:47:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> as those are also letter combinations that hardly occur otherwise
17:47:21 <Phazorx> heh... still ugly... not like german words were too short before
17:47:35 <Phazorx> and after doubleing on letters in some cases
17:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, since the 1996 reform, "du hasst" is the only right spelling
17:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> you only write 'ß' after long vowel or diphtong
17:48:50 <Phazorx> they could sing it there and "a" would get rather long :)
17:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> note that there is a big difference between "Maße" (measurements) and "Masse" (mass)
17:50:08 <Phazorx> so instead of simplifying it
17:50:24 <ln-> 20:41 < Eddi|zuHause3> usage of ß has been discouraged in the early days of computer processing, <-- Enigma?
17:50:28 <Phazorx> they came up with 3 combinations for one sound?
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17:51:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: enigma was not a computer... it was mechanical... and a german invention... i was speaking of the american influenced computers that swapped to europe after WWII
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17:51:59 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause3: machanicality doesn't mean it's not computer
17:52:03 <Phazorx> hmm... most influential computer in europe was sinclar me things :)
17:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: no, because there is no upper case ß
17:53:54 <ln-> but doesn't that mean Enigma couldn't encrypt ß (or ü, which is not there either).
17:54:22 <svip> I can check if a tool is selected or not.
17:54:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: note also the lack of numbers?
17:54:45 <svip> As I can't check where _place_proc points as, as those functions are not described in header files.
17:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> besides, as a military device, you cannot say it had a lot of influence on public language
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17:56:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> especially office and buisiness
17:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, äöü are still used, while ß gets increasingly unpopular
17:57:39 <Phazorx> and there was never a ë and ï ?
17:57:39 <Bjarni> so you are saying that I wasted time learning ß?
17:58:35 <skidd13> Bjarni: I had a quick look at the cmd which builds the bridge. And noticed something.
18:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> Phazorx: there was occasionally, but with completely different meaning... probably influenced by french... it never got common usage
18:02:28 <Phazorx> ironic, these are the only 2 which are used in cyrilic :)
18:02:54 <skidd13> Bjarni: In tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp compare line 402 and 371 ... The 402 is senseless cause it would be called at 402 either or?
18:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> there is an actor and comedian here, whose name is spelt "Hoëcker"
18:04:15 <glx> Phazorx: I can't remember ï used in cyrillic
18:04:30 <Phazorx> would it be pronouced any different from Höcker?
18:04:40 <Phazorx> glx: ukranian and serbian
18:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> because that is one of the rare occurances of the letter combinaton "oe", they put the darhesis there, to enforce the differentiated pronouncing, "Ho - ecker"
18:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> like i said, ë and ï have absolutely nothing to do with "umlauts"
18:06:33 <Sionide> Do saved games save what windows you have open + their positions?
18:06:55 <Sionide> would be a useful patch perhaps...
18:07:01 <Sionide> has it already been discussed possibly?
18:07:14 <Bjarni> skidd13: odd. They look alike, but they aren't the same
18:07:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> Sionide: not useful in multiplayer
18:07:35 <ln-> tolkien uses ä and ë and stuff as non-umlauts, too.
18:08:07 <Bjarni> I guess somebody added the no crossing bridges if before the switch without looking in the switch
18:08:22 <Bjarni> I don't think this could cause the bug in question though
18:09:02 <Phazorx> Bjarni/skidd13 since you are looking there - can you tell me why tunnel/brige heads are flagged as no pass zone for rvs ?
18:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: tolkien does not really count :p
18:13:48 <skidd13> @Bjarni: I don't think that's the reason for the bug, but it falls in my eye. @Phazorx: no, sorry
18:15:11 <Phazorx> may be they should not be flaged as such then ?
18:15:36 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: can you describe the difference?
18:15:49 <Phazorx> both phonetically change the sound
18:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> read the link :)
18:17:10 <Phazorx> i did can not really comprehend it tho :)
18:18:12 <Phazorx> the 1st sentence i can not agree
18:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> a diaresis does not actually change the sound of the vowel itself, it only suppresses the combination of vowels to form a diphtong
18:18:45 <Phazorx> both in russian and ukranian it is phonetical modification, same natuare as umlauts
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18:41:13 <Prof_Frink> See, we English consider it naïve to try to balance more than one dot on a letter.
18:41:56 <Bjarni> I mean, you balance on two legs after all
18:42:05 <Bjarni> except on the way back from the pubs :P
18:42:29 <Prof_Frink> <pterry>They'll only fall off and cause unnecessary punctuation.</pterry>
18:42:58 <Bjarni> we better avoId dots all together
18:43:55 <Bjarni> I.t wouldn't be good to lose the dots and end sentences I.maturely
18:56:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> "Kam ich doch letztens stocknüchtern aus der Kneipe, da latscht mir doch irgend so ein Idiot auf die Hand"
18:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> [recently i came completely sober from the pub, when some idiot stepped on my hand"
18:58:28 <Bjarni> Kneipe != pub... at least in Danish
18:59:03 <Bjarni> a pub is a more sophisticated place.... or rather a kneipe certainly isn't
18:59:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> well... it's a matching part of different societies
19:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's a place where you get to drink a lot, and nobody believes you if you tell you came out sober ;p
19:01:20 <Prof_Frink> pub... sophisticated?
19:03:56 <Bjarni> yeah... well a kneipe is less sophisticated than a pub
19:04:28 <Bjarni> so if a pub is level 0, then a kneipe is.... hopefully using something signed
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20:51:16 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10997 /trunk/src/ (13 files): -Codechange: unify the vehicle view window. Patch by PhilSophus.
21:01:13 *** St|off is now known as Stoffe
21:08:50 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10998 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp:
21:08:50 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: refactor of the "core" of the terraforming code to make it possible
21:08:50 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: to push the tile type specific terraforming requirements out of the generic part
21:08:50 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: of the terraforming code. Patch by frosch. For more information take a look at
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21:26:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
21:27:29 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10999 /trunk/src/ (10 files): -Codechange: unify the way the running cost of a vehicle is determined. Patch by nycom.
21:28:15 <svip> I've heard worse excuses to drink.
21:28:18 <Bjarni> or should it be r11111
21:28:52 <TrueBrain> or will it be 0.5.3? :p
21:29:24 <svip> That's why the British bombed us.
21:29:24 <TrueBrain> so buy your ticket for next time already
21:29:40 <Bjarni> it wasn't a ticket issue
21:29:46 <ln-> you could announce the party a little bit more in advance next time.
21:29:49 <Bjarni> the issue was that I had to build that robot
21:30:10 <Bjarni> even if we planned it months in advance, I couldn't make it
21:30:16 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truelight * r11000 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp:
21:30:16 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix r10121: when introducing the new blitter system, smallmap regained an old bug: buffer-overflow when moving window to far bottom-right.
21:30:16 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Note: we no longer cheat on not drawing the last line in smallmap, this time we created a more elegant fix
21:30:33 <TrueBrain> okay, more in advance...
21:30:40 * Prof_Frink does the n-thousand commit dance
21:31:19 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: 1.0 party. At the pub over there -->.
21:31:28 <ln-> there's like a much better chance to get flight tickets for ~150€ if booked 1.5 months rather than 1.5 weeks in advance.
21:31:32 <TrueBrain> I suggest next time to meat in Germany
21:31:46 <Prof_Frink> Nah, Germany's full of Germans
21:31:47 <svip> This constant beta reminds me of Google.
21:31:55 <TrueBrain> but it is easy to get to for most people
21:31:56 <Prof_Frink> And my USB stick's banned.
21:31:59 <svip> Always keep everything in BETA, to avoid being required support. :P
21:32:08 <TrueBrain> svip: who said this was beta?
21:32:14 <ln-> Although I still haven't visited Benelux at all.
21:32:22 <Bjarni> but it's full of .... Germans
21:32:24 <svip> It's illegal to use package sniffing programs in Germany.
21:32:33 <Bjarni> and even worse: German speaking Germans
21:32:35 <TrueBrain> a lot of things are illegal in Germany
21:32:40 <Prof_Frink> Always keep everything in random-svn-checkout, to avoid being required support. :P
21:32:40 <TrueBrain> what was the last law they accepted?
21:32:43 <svip> But package sniffing programs?
21:32:50 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, nmap is illegal there :p
21:33:04 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Yes, that's why my USB stick is banz0red
21:33:05 <svip> And how the hell are they going to check for that?
21:33:21 <TrueBrain> svip: doesn't matter, it still is illegal
21:33:30 <TrueBrain> who will find out if I have some cocaine plats here
21:33:33 <TrueBrain> still, it is illegal :p
21:33:35 <svip> Awesomely stupid isn't it?
21:33:36 <Bjarni> but sex with children online is legal and has created a marked in 2nd life.... odd Germans
21:33:36 <Prof_Frink> Practically none of my electronic devices are legal in Germany.
21:33:56 <Bjarni> like who would pay a fortune for your virtual character to have sex with a virtual character
21:33:57 <TrueBrain> I myself am not legal in Germany :p
21:33:59 <svip> I use Wireshark and nmap and traceroute all the time.
21:34:18 <TrueBrain> nah, paying is silly in general for things like SecondLife
21:34:27 <TrueBrain> svip: me too, mostly on my own servers :p
21:34:44 <Bjarni> I never really understood SecondLife :s
21:34:46 <svip> I made a script that reads and gives stats from your auth.log.
21:34:49 * Prof_Frink has been known to use Ettercap too
21:34:59 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: SecondLife in fact is really nice
21:35:01 <TrueBrain> although very boring
21:35:05 <TrueBrain> but... to put money in it?
21:35:11 <Bjarni> and the name is poor. How can people with no life get a 2nd one?
21:35:13 <TrueBrain> I once put 5$ in it, for the fun of it, and went to the casino
21:35:13 <Prof_Frink> With the login-grabbing plugin
21:35:18 <TrueBrain> I came out with 10$ :p
21:35:28 <svip> User: root attempted 2314 times.
21:35:34 <svip> Ip: 91.121.27.91 attempted 1453 times.
21:35:44 <Bjarni> TrueBrain: did you report your $5 earnings to the US IRS?
21:35:45 <TrueBrain> svip: posting IPs is a bit... nasty
21:35:52 <Bjarni> you earned it on a US server, you know
21:35:52 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: I don't have to
21:36:03 <svip> They are people trying to access my computer, TrueBrain.
21:36:07 <TrueBrain> by the law of my own coutnry, I don't have to :)
21:36:10 <svip> As part of an SSH spam attack.
21:36:22 <Bjarni> <TrueBrain> Bjarni: I don't have to <-- tell that to the IRS :P
21:36:26 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: as it goes via PayPal, and PayPal is also located in my own country
21:36:37 <Prof_Frink> They are the owners of Windows boxen that are being used to attack your computer
21:36:38 <TrueBrain> I have nothing, and aboslutely nothing, to do with IRS
21:36:48 <svip> I did some checks on all the systems.
21:37:06 <svip> There was a hacked user in Finland.
21:37:10 <svip> And a university in Bogota.
21:37:18 <TrueBrain> svip: hmm, on my servers you won't reach that number... after 10 attempts within 1 hour, you are blocked for 24 hours..
21:37:21 <Prof_Frink> Oh well, they deserve everything they get then
21:37:21 <TrueBrain> after that for a week
21:37:26 <TrueBrain> and.. then for life! YEAH!
21:37:43 <TrueBrain> so I won't find values > 30 :p
21:37:56 <svip> Their root account isn't that well protected.
21:38:01 <Prof_Frink> pubkey only, of course.
21:38:03 <TrueBrain> write them an email! :)
21:38:18 <svip> I cannot figure out how to get their email just from knowing their IP.
21:38:31 <TrueBrain> svip: ip-lookup? WHOIS?
21:38:37 <TrueBrain> just write to abuse@
21:38:40 <Prof_Frink> You should be able to get an email for the uni
21:38:43 <TrueBrain> at least you tried :)
21:39:07 <svip> My script shall be more advance, and actually perform the whois itself.
21:39:10 <TrueBrain> depending on how bored I am, I once wrote 25 abuse@ emails that they were attacking me :p
21:39:13 <svip> And take out the interesting parts.
21:39:25 <svip> Ever got a respond, TrueBrain?
21:39:27 <TrueBrain> resulted in just 2 replies...
21:39:38 <TrueBrain> oh, and 1 out-of-office reply
21:39:41 <TrueBrain> which was pretty odd :p
21:39:47 <TrueBrain> no, IP -> WHOIS -> ISP -> abuse@
21:40:11 <glx> <TrueBrain> oh, and 1 out-of-office reply <-- automatic reply?
21:40:31 <TrueBrain> glx: yes.. but on an abuse@ that is really weird
21:40:52 <TrueBrain> svip: if your IP was doing the attacks, I would email csirt@csirt.dk
21:40:56 <Bjarni> out-of-office replies are golden for spammers. It quickly verifies that the email address is in use and they can then start to send a whole lot of spam
21:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> <svip> It's illegal to use package sniffing programs in Germany. <- same reason why it is illegal to open letters
21:41:28 <svip> You got mail! But you can't open it! :O
21:41:45 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: are you allowed to read what is written on a postcard?
21:42:08 <Rubidium> as internet traffic must be compared to postcards and not letters in enveloppes
21:42:19 <Bjarni> spam mails are illegal in Denmark due to a law that bans door to door salesmen/advertising and random phonecalls to sell stuff. Great law
21:42:43 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: And how much spam do you get?
21:43:27 <Bjarni> but there are some guys in the 3rd world and some in America, who thinks that I'm fat, needs bigger breasts and viagra
21:43:44 <Bjarni> well, the computer is able to filter them out
21:43:55 <ln-> has anyone been to Dublin?
21:44:04 <glx> I got a lot of fake youtube links recently
21:44:28 <Bjarni> but the point is that people never interrupts me with phonecalls to sell me useless stuff and they don't show up at the door either
21:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> Rubidium: i am not sure... but it is also not legal to listen to phonecalls
21:44:45 <Prof_Frink> glx: el reg said that was the Storm Worm.
21:45:34 <svip> Only newspapers, Bjarni.
21:46:14 <Bjarni> that's not even often they call
21:46:22 <svip> "Vil du købe et abonnoument på Politiken?" "Nej, jeg skal ikke have sådan noget venstre-oriterent propaganda."
21:46:23 <Bjarni> and to be honest, I wonder if they are allowed to call
21:46:45 <Bjarni> it's more fun when they try to sell you a newspaper you already get X)
21:47:09 <svip> Information has for so long wanted me to buy their newspaper.
21:47:32 <Bjarni> they never contacted me
21:47:45 <svip> They only do because I used to have it.
21:48:03 <svip> And I keep telling them I will buy it when I move out of my parents' cellar.
21:48:05 <Bjarni> it started as an illegal press
21:48:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> we call that kind of luck "Arschkarte" :p
21:49:12 <svip> German is just putting a lot of random "sch" around it.
21:49:21 <svip> And pronounce the a's like they should.
21:49:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11001 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify the way to determine whether a vehicle is in a depot.
21:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> it is said to be derived from football, where the yellow card is in the chest pocket, and the red card is in the back pocket
21:49:38 <Prof_Frink> And capitalising random Words.
21:49:52 <svip> Sorta like in English titles.
21:49:58 <Bjarni> I was once contacted by my ISP and informs that if I moved from 512k to 1M, they would give me 4M for months... since the price was nearly the same, I took the bait
21:50:10 <Prof_Frink> *Proper* nouns get capitals
21:50:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> it is funny how the english capitalise english, but the germans don't :p
21:50:31 <svip> English capitalise too many things.
21:50:36 <Bjarni> after the 3 or 4 months, I would revert to 1M and they then informed me that their new policy was to upgrade 1M to 2M at no cost at all
21:50:40 <svip> Even weekdays and months!
21:50:59 <Bjarni> I think that's the only time I actually wanted something I was offered like that
21:51:32 *** Stoffe is now known as St|off
21:51:47 <Prof_Frink> Bah, the party's finished.
21:51:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Prof_Frink> *Proper* nouns get capitals <- english (and other words derived from countries) is capitalised even if it is used as adjective
21:52:21 <Prof_Frink> That's 'cause countries have capitals.
21:52:40 <svip> Sorta like in Eesti and eesti keel?
21:52:41 <Prof_Frink> South Africa has two capitals, so it has two capitals.
21:52:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> but it's reverse to the german way of capitalising
21:53:06 <svip> What about The Democratic Republic of North Korea, Prof_Frink?
21:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> germans capitalise everything that was created by god
21:53:18 <Prof_Frink> Now capital looks like it's spelt wrong.
21:53:31 <svip> Does that assume that God existed?
21:53:39 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: then what about "Former Yugoslavian Republic Macedonia"... do they have 4 capitals?
21:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> except the lord himself, he gets two capitals (in the 16th century origin of the capitalising)
21:53:48 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: See, we just capitalise Him and things He does.
21:54:00 <Prof_Frink> Nah, that's a silly place
21:54:15 <svip> Why is capital and capital spelt the same way in English?
21:54:26 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause3: two capitals? like GOtt?
21:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> valhallasw: i think Martin Luther used the term "HErr"
21:55:08 <Bjarni> <svip> Why is capital and capital spelt the same way in English? <-- for the same reason as "så" is spelled like "så" ;)
21:55:27 <svip> And "Er det det det er?"
21:55:31 <valhallasw> svip: because it's the capital <city> and a capital <letter>
21:55:34 * Bjarni puts up a sign "gone fishing"
21:56:00 <Bjarni> <svip> And "Er det det det er?" <--- good one
21:56:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> it is believed that his bible translation, together with the new publication ways (from his good friend Johannes Gutenberg) are the origin of this capitalisation
21:56:57 <svip> What's with all this Bible none-sense?
21:57:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> because it was the first time that written words could be mass produced
21:57:04 <svip> So Martin Luther was crazy and jazz?
21:57:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> so this initial publication greatly influenced the future style of writing
21:58:10 <svip> I admit that Germany has a much more awesome history than Denmark has.
21:58:17 <svip> But that still doesn't beat LEGO.
21:58:21 <Bjarni> actually Gutenberg didn't invent the printing press, but he improved it to set up a page way faster. The Chinese had printed books for ages at that time
21:59:08 <Bjarni> we have some history in common with Germany
21:59:19 <Prof_Frink> svip: Once again, you prove England's greatness.
21:59:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, he did not invent printing, he invented moveable letters, i.e. pages made up from small bits, that could be rearranged later
21:59:25 <Bjarni> we were both ruled by Hitler and even at the same time
21:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> instead of carving an own plate for each page
21:59:43 <svip> Are you going to bring up the false claim that it was a Brit who invented LEGO?
21:59:45 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, so you know. Most people don't :(
22:00:17 <Bjarni> welcome to kindergarten
22:00:33 <svip> Why you'd think TrueBrain picked LEGO over Meccano?
22:00:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> if i am nothing, does that mean i am greater than lego? :p
22:00:46 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: No, you can't have sharp pieces of metal in playschool.
22:01:00 <svip> You cannot be nothing, you can only be no one.
22:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> svip: TrueBrain just stole the next best stuff he could find, which was Wolf01's brickland tiles
22:01:17 * Bjarni once built a robot out of lego
22:01:20 <Prof_Frink> svip: OK, you stab me with a lego brick, I'll stab you with a piece of meccano.
22:01:21 <valhallasw> meccano >> lego; although both have some strengths and weaknesses
22:01:28 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: I don't steal, I ask for permission
22:01:44 <valhallasw> for little children lego might be better suited
22:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> TrueBrain: poor excuse :p
22:01:52 <valhallasw> anyway, meccano > lego > k'nex ;)
22:02:16 <svip> Then why is there no Meccano Star Wars?
22:02:30 <Prof_Frink> A mix of meccano, lego and a Hornby train set is pure win.
22:02:39 <TrueBrain> Meccano sucks for a theme :s
22:02:55 <svip> I have LEGO Star Wars II.
22:03:02 <valhallasw> svip: because themed construction sets suck
22:03:09 <valhallasw> as the parts are not re-useable
22:03:11 <svip> I am thinking about the games.
22:03:26 <TrueBrain> on XBox it is cool to do when you are drunk with your roommates
22:03:28 <TrueBrain> we had suck a good laugh
22:03:30 <Prof_Frink> There's no freaking *point* to virtual meccano
22:03:49 <svip> It doesn't even have potential!
22:03:53 <Prof_Frink> There's no point to virtual lego either.
22:04:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> am i the only one in here that has no idea what meccano is?
22:04:05 <Prof_Frink> The whole idea is to build something
22:04:08 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: many points, we call them stubs
22:04:18 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: I google'd it, and noticed I knew it all along :p
22:04:27 <svip> And can you make anything like this with Meccano?
22:04:28 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: Imagine Lego, but designed by an engineer
22:04:43 * Bjarni once built a working trebuchet out of lego
22:04:55 <Bjarni> it was able to shoot several meters :D
22:05:24 <valhallasw> steel lego would be nice
22:05:25 <glx> Bjarni: how many broken windows ? ;)
22:05:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> oh, yes, i think we had an east german copy of that :p
22:05:32 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: lol!!! :)
22:05:43 <TrueBrain> steel lego, oh, that is a good one :)
22:05:47 <svip> I have a steel LEGO brick.
22:05:53 <Bjarni> glx: none. I was careful. I didn't kill anybody either
22:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> my father built an easter-egg-painting-machine from those :p
22:06:01 <Bjarni> except for the lego guy I tried to use as ammo
22:06:21 <TrueBrain> I am going to report you!
22:06:24 * valhallasw is going to bed, gn guys
22:06:37 <svip> Just as the killing sets in.
22:06:46 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: btw, ever made it through the 1st year?
22:06:54 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: yes, I've got my P
22:06:58 <Prof_Frink> If you're gonna take out a window, do it with a spud gun.
22:07:01 <TrueBrain> that is really nice, in one year
22:07:04 <TrueBrain> 80% fails in that :p
22:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> i didn't even know what a trebuchet was, until i played Age of Empires II
22:07:14 <valhallasw> 50% failed in getting the BSA...
22:07:29 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: You don't watch Scrapheap Challenge?
22:07:32 <valhallasw> or something like that
22:07:32 <TrueBrain> so we are back to, what, 20 students? :p
22:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> Prof_Frink: a what?
22:07:54 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: It's like giant meccano
22:08:03 <valhallasw> some W+N people who have switched to W, too, of course
22:08:21 <TrueBrain> continueing with some I classes?
22:08:40 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: Two teams get ten hours to build something from whatever they can find on a scrap heap.
22:08:43 <valhallasw> compiler construction, probably
22:09:12 <TrueBrain> 3rd year class? Hehe :)
22:09:40 <valhallasw> I'm only doing classes I find interesting ;)
22:09:53 <TrueBrain> some classes indeed are pretty boring :p
22:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> Prof_Frink: i don't think i have ever seen such a thing
22:09:57 <TrueBrain> the history of programming languages
22:10:29 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: 'tis probably the second best program on TV
22:10:37 <valhallasw> anyway, time for bed, kinda dead (ludieke zaalavond @ quintus)
22:10:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can fill more than 2 lessons with history of programming languages?
22:11:03 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: they wrote a whole darn book about it!
22:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> i mean you show like 3 different languages, and give them the "evolution tree"
22:11:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> and you are done with it...
22:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> they all look alike anyway
22:11:35 <TrueBrain> clearly there is more to it
22:11:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> one guest professor always said: "there is nothing new under the sun"
22:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> whenever he introduced a "brand new" concept
22:12:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's always the same thing in a new package
22:13:49 <TrueBrain> and still you have to study it :p
22:14:22 <TrueBrain> now I have to learn Python to create a project of mine
22:14:53 <glx> there are only 2 languages, C-like and emacs-like
22:17:23 <TrueBrain> is it me or is PHP missing?
22:17:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think our tree had a few more branches...
22:18:11 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: google, images, one of the first hits ;)
22:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it really is :)
22:19:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> it is completely distinct from every other language :p
22:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> i learned prolog in our AI course
22:20:21 <glx> you need to think about all rules
22:21:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes it rules :p
22:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> i found it totally funny, but the other guys were completely unable to program in it :)
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22:33:57 <svip> How do I check if one tile has all four types of road on it?
22:34:05 <svip> Or if a road is crossed by a railroad track?
22:34:29 <glx> we have accessors for that
22:34:45 <svip> But they keep giving me assertions failures.
22:34:50 <svip> bool IsCrossingBarred(TileIndex): Assertion `GetRoadTileType(t) == ROAD_TILE_CROSSING' failed.
22:36:23 <svip> It's just that the road_map.h file is so badly commented.
22:36:23 <glx> use IsLevelCrossing(t) or IsLevelCrossingTile(t) first
22:36:44 <glx> but you're right about comments
22:37:33 <svip> Now I just need if a tile has roads in all four directions.
22:39:56 <glx> GetRoadBits(t) == ROAD_ALL
22:40:06 <svip> Now I also need to check if it is on a slope.
22:40:14 <svip> Well, if it goes from one level to another.
22:44:35 <ln-> is it legal for OTTD to search for servers on LAN with UDP broadcast in germany?
22:46:01 <ln-> definitely sniffing, and one can't argue a LAN would always be someone's (or some company's) own private LAN.
22:46:59 <svip> There is no function to get the Slope at a tile?
22:47:11 <glx> svip: I'm sure there is one
22:47:17 <svip> GetTileSlope(TileIndex tile, uint *h)
22:47:21 <svip> Yeah, but what the hell is h?
22:47:36 <Sacro> UDP might be a bit of a grey area
22:47:39 <ln-> ain't it some constant in Schrödinger's equation
22:48:04 <glx> it's a pointer to a var that can receive the return of GetTileSlope()
22:49:45 <glx> h is used to get the height
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22:54:55 <svip> Is there a smarter way to get wither or not a road goes up a slope?
22:55:03 <svip> Because the slope does not have much to do with the road itself.
22:55:15 <svip> The road can go up on slopes that actually slope in a different direction.
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23:29:22 <_Ben_> hmm the order the sprites are drawn on bridges seems to be different for different bridge heights. Is there any reason for this?
23:30:01 <_Ben_> i.e. the legs. They appear earlier, on higher bridges, than the bridge floor, but the same cannot be said for the lowest bridge
23:35:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's probably because the 1-level bridges are from TTD, while the high bridges are more kind of a "hack" that was introduced later
23:37:26 <_Ben_> hmm, To solve it will be hacky in a graphical sence. I would have to make elements of the bridge extrude over the problem overlapping other tiles
23:39:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> i remember there were lots of drawing problems with high bridges in the past...
23:40:42 <_Ben_> yeah there are others that are very apparent at high zoom, all to do with the legs, I'll worry about them when I get to them I think
23:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think the official term is "pillars" ;)
23:45:17 <_Ben_> More architecturally correct I suppose. I'll add it to my vocabulary!
continue to next day ⏵
