IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-08-28
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00:01:48 <svip> It will create the first dropdown.
00:01:52 <svip> As you probably have seen.
00:02:01 <svip> But for some reason, it won't create the other one.
00:02:12 <svip> But nothing more than that happens.
00:02:16 <svip> I click it again, and it goes up.
00:05:00 <svip> Are you going to accept it?
00:05:10 <glx> I'm searching the window :)
00:05:26 <svip> :O I thought you wanted the fixed window.
00:05:34 <svip> I did a lot of changes to it from the previous one.
00:05:38 <svip> But it still doesn't work.
00:05:46 <glx> I was searching the dcc window ;)
00:11:42 <glx> overlay are not refreshed on change
00:12:16 <svip> Mainly because I don't know if there is a function to force a redraw of the entire screen.
00:21:07 <svip> You didn't find a reason to the missing dropdown?
00:21:25 <svip> And also, what is the command called that forces a redraw?
00:35:06 <glx> in ZoningToolbarWidgets enum, you inverted text and button
00:35:39 <glx> button id should always be label+1
00:36:41 <glx> hmm and I broke something
00:42:21 <glx> indeed it's the missing redraw call
00:46:24 <glx> dropdown and screen update
00:46:35 <svip> I did fix the screen update myself.
00:47:10 <glx> MarkWholeScreenDirty() at end of case WE_DROPDOWN_SELECT ?
00:47:24 <svip> Did you do that as well?
00:47:42 <glx> yes that and the enum modification
00:48:00 <svip> I am looking at it right now.
00:48:07 <svip> And now, I will go to bed.
00:48:32 <svip> So that's the best I could come up with.
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01:10:08 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r10994 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Change some function names to be more representative and more fitting of trunk's naming convention (skidd13)
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06:47:00 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10995 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: unify the way to get the displayed maxium speed of a vehicle. Patch by nycom.
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08:45:05 <TrueBrain> how boring this channel is lately... :p
08:45:41 <SmatZ> I may type here a lot of junk text it you wish ^_^
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09:11:35 <Noldo> It seems I was a bit sick yesterday, didn't start my computer for a whole day
09:12:14 <Nickman> Any progress on the bricks TrueBrain?
09:12:20 <ln-> although there's one sensible solution;
09:12:39 <ln-> Noldo didn't start his computer the whole day because it was already running.
09:12:54 <TrueBrain> Nickman: yes; I won't continue with it :) I have shown that it is possible, and doable, which is enough for me that OpenTTD itself isn't the limitator for 32bpp
09:13:11 <TrueBrain> as now I need all my time for other non-OTTD things, I won't continue with it :) Feel free to pick it up ;)
09:13:20 <TrueBrain> and else, let it to Wolf01 :)
09:13:32 <Nickman> no more time for OTTD?
09:13:46 <SmatZ> really, you won't develop OTTD any further?
09:14:02 <TrueBrain> In 6 days college starts again :)
09:20:49 <peter1138> TrueBrain: was someone suggesting that openttd was limiting for 32bpp?
09:20:52 <Nickman> in 6 days already? Here it's only the 24'th of september
09:21:26 <TrueBrain> peter1138: not directly, but now I know for sure that it isn't any problem
09:21:34 <TrueBrain> even to get things pixel perfect, Blender for example runs just fine
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09:27:48 <Nickman> No more development of the NoAI branch? :)
09:31:04 <TrueBrain> haha, I am sure that will continue :)
09:42:37 <TrueBrain> I try to get a DHCPd in the air which my mobile understands, but it fails badly :(
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10:04:43 <TrueBrain> I have LAN connection, gateway is set just fine, and still my mobile things he doesn't have a good connection :(
10:04:50 <TrueBrain> might be because pinging doesn't work, hmm...
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10:43:55 <alex_> anyone follow the stock market here?
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11:56:42 <SmatZ> 74.49 10.86 10.86 59286 0.00 0.00 DeleteEntryFromSpriteCache()
11:56:54 <SmatZ> nice, 75% of the time freeing up the sprite cache
11:58:46 <peter1138> the default size is suitable for the 8bpp graphics and a few newgrfs
12:01:55 <SmatZ> 16MB now, didn't help a lot :(
12:03:03 <SmatZ> 64MB cache, ~60% in DeleteEntry...
12:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> 32bpp will probably use about 4 times the space than 8bpp...
12:03:27 <peter1138> maybe you have millions of sprites...
12:04:01 <SmatZ> I am playing openttdcoop savegames
12:04:12 <SmatZ> well, with paused time...
12:05:09 * SmatZ dumb, I was editing a different file :-x
12:10:53 <SmatZ> peter1138: with 64MB cache it is much better, thanks
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12:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> "The update from when the authorities' opinion change is a bit more difficult" <- why? just throw a MarkWholeScreenDirty() anywhere the town rating changes
12:46:56 <svip> But wouldn't that be a bit much?
12:47:13 <svip> And it is only required when the authority zoning is on.
12:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> sure, add an if()...
12:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> the screen is only drawn once per tick
12:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> town rating usually gets changed during town procession (probably town_cmd.cpp), and user interaction (clearing, landscaping, etc.)
12:49:39 <svip> I assume they call a function called something similar to "ChangePlayerRatingForTown()".
12:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> then grep for that :)
12:52:39 <Bjarni> MarkWholeScreenDirty() is slow so it shouldn't be used every tick. However I think it can be hard to avoid in this case
12:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> you might also insert a proximity check, so towns at the other end of the map do not cause that, but i don't know how to easily do that
12:54:51 <Bjarni> add that to the todo list. First get it working, and then you can break it with optimisation :p
12:54:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> and you only issue that function if it actually goes over the threshold you set
12:55:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> not for every tiny change
12:56:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> note that there are different thresholds for "like" and "dislike", depending on what you want to do (e.g. destroying a house, destroying a road, building a station)
12:56:33 <svip> if(_current_player == _local_player)
12:56:33 <svip> if((_zoning.outer==CHECKOPINION) || (_zoning.inner==CHECKOPINION))
12:56:38 <svip> That is the code I have added.
12:56:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> that was not the cable for the vacuum cleaner :p
12:57:09 <Greyscale> Request: Make purchased land go green over time
12:57:42 <svip> However, I think it'll call a function in zoning_cmd.cpp
12:57:44 <Bjarni> you mean brown is a shitty colour?
12:57:55 <Greyscale> it doesn't make sense
12:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> Greyscale: that is easy, look at how it is done for grass tiles, and find appropriate map bits
12:58:08 <Greyscale> just because *I* own the land doesn't mean I've plowed it
12:58:28 <Greyscale> also: Trees should probably not be removed because I purchased it
12:58:33 <Greyscale> doesn't make a bit of sense
12:58:51 <svip> You buy land so you can build an airport later on.
12:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> Greyscale: that is a lot more difficult, because free map bits are not infinite
12:59:31 <Greyscale> I bought the land, why does it have to look like I ploughed it?
12:59:42 <svip> You just don't know it yet.
12:59:43 <Greyscale> NOTHING LIVES HERE BECAUSE I OWN IT
12:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> Greyscale: because you don't want to pay clearing costs again
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13:00:15 <Greyscale> I really don't care about that. If I can afford to buy land, I don't give two shits about that :P
13:00:17 <svip> You need to clear grass to build on it, Greyscale.
13:00:47 <Greyscale> Anyway, why have I cleared it? I own it, but why must I clear it?
13:01:14 <svip> Cause you don't build on grass.
13:01:20 <Greyscale> but I don't want to yet.
13:01:34 <svip> Well, then you'd have to pay an extra time for removing the grass.
13:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> Greyscale: sure, clearing grass is cheap, but clearing trees costs valuable "authority points"
13:01:47 <Greyscale> can't build on mud either
13:01:54 <svip> why doesn't local authorities care when I reshape the land, Eddi|zuHause2?
13:02:02 <svip> Oh, you build a mountain in our backyard.
13:02:12 <svip> Who cares? But that tree there, NOES!
13:02:28 <svip> Yeah, we know you destroyed our farmland as well.
13:02:34 <svip> But you can't touch our trees.
13:03:00 <svip> And farmland gives foods.
13:03:09 <Bjarni> farmland is equal to fishing and hunting
13:03:37 <Bjarni> do I look like I care? :P
13:05:02 <Greyscale> Why does the monorail still go chuffchuff?
13:06:59 * Greyscale asks the hard hitting, critical questions here.
13:09:15 <Bjarni> we like vehicles to behave like that
13:10:34 <Greyscale> An electric monorail that goes chuff chuff?
13:10:45 <Greyscale> anyway: Anyone got junction tutorials?
13:10:54 <Greyscale> I'm bored of my double clover
13:11:09 <Bjarni> well, basically we try to make them so ugly that nobody will use them
13:11:22 <Bjarni> everybody knows that real trains runs on two rails
13:11:42 <Greyscale> Yeah, the monorail sucks TBH
13:11:46 <Greyscale> I jump to the maglev
13:12:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> he means 1, 3 or 4 rails
13:13:34 <Bjarni> 1 is monorail, 3 and 4 has some extra rails for power supply
13:13:50 <Bjarni> if you need external power, you should use overhead wires
13:15:12 <Greyscale> Eddi|zuHause2, aah!
13:15:35 <Greyscale> I use maglev simply because its a fuckton faster.
13:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> use a real trainset...
13:17:38 <Greyscale> Actually, thats a point
13:17:42 <Greyscale> anyone got a decent one?
13:18:27 <Belugas> mmh... i think this is worth BOOKMARKING!!!
13:18:55 <Bjarni> you didn't knew that one?
13:19:02 <Greyscale> I might try the UK set
13:19:25 <Greyscale> how do I load one into a server?
13:19:37 <Bjarni> the UK set is actually a bit harder as the trains are more expensive to build/operate
13:19:48 <Bjarni> makes the game more interesting
13:19:59 <Bjarni> you add the grf file(s) into the data dir
13:20:24 <Bjarni> and then you activate them in the newgrf menu (in main menu)
13:22:20 <Bjarni> you need to be admin to enable newgrf files on a server
13:22:59 <Greyscale> yesyesyes, I wouldn't be yammering about it if I wasn't an admin :P
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13:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> write them in [newgrf] section before generating the map
13:23:05 <Belugas> i did, Bjarni :) this is a dramatic effect done in order to put some emphase on the link you gave us so kindly :D
13:23:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> or activate them in local game, and open that savegame on the server
13:23:41 <Bjarni> I started to wonder what kind of (censored) guy you might be :P
13:23:53 <Bjarni> but I had a feeling you didn't mean it honestly
13:25:59 <Belugas> little by little, you will discover how wonderfull of a compagnon i really am ;)
13:27:16 <Greyscale> how do I write them into the conf?
13:27:35 <Greyscale> and why does a manual save on the server take far longer than autosave?
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13:31:13 <Greyscale> eddi, how do I write them into [newgrf] ?
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13:34:48 <Belugas> Greyscale, do you have a text editor?
13:35:01 <Greyscale> I'm not that fucking stupid
13:35:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> Greyscale: paths are relative to the data dir
13:35:09 <Greyscale> I ment what is the format for writing them in
13:35:43 <Greyscale> or is there some other hoops I must jump through?
13:35:59 <Belugas> you should use more precise question... like "what is the format of each entry of the section [newgrf]"...
13:36:13 <Belugas> as you wrote them, it is perfectly legit
13:36:38 <svip> Now it's soon 200 years since the Copenhagen Bombings.
13:36:41 <Belugas> expect that you have to keep in mind it is all based on the folder "data"
13:36:57 <Belugas> so, if you grf file is on a sibfolder, you have to happend the namer of that subfolder
13:37:31 <Greyscale> so I've stuffed them into /data
13:37:40 <Greyscale> do I put ./data/some.grf or just some.grf
13:38:09 <Noldo> 28 1635 06 < Eddi|zuHause2> Greyscale: paths are relative to the data dir
13:38:26 <Greyscale> didn't see that bit
13:39:28 <Noldo> I've noticed it few times myself when reading a backlog I manage to skip the line with the information I'm looking for
13:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> Greyscale: note that these settings will only apply to new games, not old savegames
13:40:19 <Greyscale> yeah, I was busy typing too much to miss it
13:40:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> (it is usually a bad idea to switch vehiclesets midgame)
13:41:22 <Greyscale> yeah, I'm doing a reset
13:41:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> a propos vehiclesets, did MB give any kind of information when he wants to release version 0.9?
13:55:33 <Greyscale> Wow, the UK newgrf really does give you some heck of a choice
13:55:54 <Greyscale> haha, we actually have some of these where I live (sprinter)
13:56:22 <Greyscale> heh, built '91, 16 years life span
13:56:24 <Greyscale> thats quite true, given they've just started replaceing them this year
13:58:04 <Greyscale> "time is cyclical, we go back to using steam"
14:00:41 <Greyscale> I'm pissed now. I spent extra going for electric rail and the best thing I can get is a fucking fuel cell powered unit :| fark.
14:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> electric does not actually cost extra (for now)
14:04:26 <Greyscale> also: Why does this fuel cell train get 'lectric sparks?
14:04:33 <Greyscale> I recon it won't run without electric track
14:05:00 <peter1138> I reckon you are wrong.
14:05:39 <Greyscale> EXTRA EXTRA:lazy finger misses k, read all about it
14:06:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> fuel cell is some kind of glorified battery
14:08:24 <Greyscale> its hydrogen, isn't it?
14:08:29 <Greyscale> But its still a battery I guess
14:08:47 <Greyscale> you put energy into making hydrogen and oxygen from electrolysis of water
14:08:53 <Greyscale> and get x watts back out
14:09:27 <Greyscale> the only true forms of power is the sun (solar)
14:09:35 <Greyscale> wind is just the actions of the sun on the body of air
14:09:52 <Greyscale> and fossil fuel is just decomposed living shit that grew from solar energy
14:10:01 <Greyscale> and the sun is a fucking giant fireball
14:10:44 <Greyscale> Fuel cells are very good form of battery though, I guess
14:10:51 <Greyscale> no heavy metals in the actual battery chemestry
14:11:03 <Greyscale> and the only local output is water.
14:28:44 <Greyscale> I *REALLY* like this
14:28:48 <Greyscale> 2tone paint is pimp
14:31:09 <peter1138> Greyscale: where you do think solar power comes from?
14:31:46 <Greyscale> all forms of energy come from the sun, mostly indirectly.
14:31:55 <peter1138> where does the sun get its energy?
14:33:30 <Greyscale> big fuckoff fusion reaction
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14:54:01 <Bjarni> <svip> Now it's soon 200 years since the Copenhagen Bombings. <--- err.. yeah. Didn't really think of that. Now it's around 200 years ago that no good Nelson made the first bombardment of civilian targets
14:54:36 <Bjarni> now that you mention it, I can't remember we ever retaliated, so we better do that now :p
14:55:33 <Greyscale> Actually, I'm a dot com
14:55:49 <Greyscale> anyway: How can I show what buildings are in the catchment area of a station?
14:56:05 <Greyscale> and I think the catchment area of larger stations should be bigger than that of smaller stations
14:56:57 <ln-_> Bjarni: are you referring to peter1138?
14:57:24 <ln-_> Bjarni: surely he wasn't born 200 years ago.
14:57:45 <Bjarni> you want to add some GUI thing to highlight buildings in the catchment area of a specific station or ?
14:57:46 <Greyscale> Bjarni, I'd like to see what buildings are in the effective coverage area of the station
14:57:58 <Greyscale> yeah, like when I'm placing it
14:58:22 <Bjarni> try to turn catchment area on in the build station window
14:58:41 <Bjarni> ln-_: not THAT Nelson. The one on Trafalgar square
14:59:25 <Greyscale> yes, like that, but I want it *after* its built
15:00:07 <Bjarni> it's interesting that they made him a lord and built statue(s?) of him, while today a person ordering the soldiers to fire on surrendering unarmed civilians would end up in Haag
15:01:00 <Bjarni> specially since his orders was "to disable the navy so they could not aid Napoleon, but try to harm the Danes as little as possible, because they are nice people"
15:02:54 <Bjarni> Greyscale: well, use the same code as the station highlight (maybe make it a function of some sort to share it) and then.... make a button in the station window or something to turn it on and off
15:03:01 <Greyscale> Any way to set a server to double speed?
15:03:26 <Greyscale> waiting for my trains to slowly slowly pootle around
15:03:32 <Greyscale> I need money for an oil route :|
15:03:40 <Bjarni> fast forward in multiplayer drops clients faster than you have a chance to react
15:04:11 <Greyscale> I'm connected to it by 100Mb.
15:04:27 <Greyscale> well, 20ishMb really
15:04:34 <Greyscale> the last connection to my laptop is wifi
15:05:02 <Bjarni> because the server sends a package telling when to move to next tick. If the server is too slow, then the game slows down. The clients never reply with a "ready for next tick", so they have no way of telling that they can't keep up and drops because they become too far behind
15:05:24 <Bjarni> it's not a bandwidth issue, but a CPU issue
15:05:28 <Greyscale> trains be pootlin', yo
15:05:34 <Greyscale> The server or the client?
15:05:51 <Greyscale> my powermac makes a great server for this
15:05:58 <Greyscale> 300Mhz and it manages not to suck
15:05:59 <glx> but the main problem is when server is faster than client
15:06:23 <Bjarni> well, in theory fast forward would work if and only if the server is so slow compared to the clients that the clients will never have any problems keeping up
15:06:34 <Greyscale> fuck fuckfuckity shitfuck
15:06:53 <Greyscale> the icecream van D:
15:07:01 <peter1138> or you could implement variable fast forward
15:07:12 <Greyscale> I NEED ICEY TREATS DAMNIT
15:07:14 <peter1138> and slow forward, for the slightly-too-slow clients
15:07:29 <glx> slow forward already exists :)
15:07:39 <Bjarni> and/or enabling clients to say "pause, I can't keep up at this speed"
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15:08:22 <Greyscale> how about you fix the damn protocol and have the clients say "OK, next frame plz"
15:08:34 <Greyscale> also: Why does windows randomly decide it has an american keyboard?
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15:08:39 <Bjarni> however I fear that the slow client message could be an issue to slow down network games where strangers can enter
15:08:44 <Greyscale> I KEEP TELLING IT IT HAS A UK CLIENT
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15:09:23 <Greyscale> I'm trying to get debian to work on my laptop
15:09:28 <Greyscale> the wifi card is supported
15:09:37 <Greyscale> it just hates my AP
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15:10:23 <Bjarni> send it to a counsellor together with your AP to make them better friends
15:11:04 * Greyscale councils them with a hammer
15:11:24 <Greyscale> and if anyone *DARES* say "anger management", I will beat you with it too.
15:11:42 <Bjarni> reminds me of a tech support reply I once heard. A guy shows up and tells that his powerbook keeps freezing. The reply is to give it a jacket
15:11:43 * mikegrb sends Greyscale to court ordered anger management
15:12:03 * Greyscale stabs mikegrb in the face with the claw half of the hammer
15:12:23 <Bjarni> I knew both the guy and the tech support guy, so I have a pretty good idea of how they reacted to that reply. One of them thought it was more fun than the other one X)
15:12:50 <Bjarni> well all of us thought it was more fun than the guy with the powerbook
15:14:07 <Greyscale> the UK patch is really nice
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15:15:16 <plaes> anyone with "superuser" access to flyspray?
15:15:18 <Greyscale> much better options than stock
15:15:54 <plaes> I made a typo in my bug report description
15:19:23 <Bjarni> so it's right mouse button everywhere it's mentioned?
15:19:58 <plaes> there's also a thread about this feature where the code was reviewed, and noone spotted it until it was too late :)
15:21:09 <Bjarni> yeah, I fixed an issue on the bug reporting system
15:23:12 <plaes> is there any ETA on 0.6?
15:32:06 <NukeBuster> Is it ok to replace, http://paste.openttd.org/207 with http://paste.openttd.org/208? The change in code will make the innards more compatible with the code from landscape.cpp. It will allow me to use the same innards for diagonal demolishing and leveling. Which in turn will make it easier to turn the repeated statement into a function.
15:39:30 <Bjarni> it's meant to scare off people by looking hard
15:39:49 <NukeBuster> It's about the macro's BEGIN_TILE_LOOP and END_TILE_LOOP
15:39:50 <Bjarni> if we coded so everybody could understand it, then people would laugh at our bugs
15:40:11 <NukeBuster> those are replaced with 2 simple for loops
15:40:50 <NukeBuster> (the macro's are essentialy 2 do loops)
15:41:46 <Bjarni> what would the benefit of not using the macro be?
15:41:58 <Bjarni> using it makes it clear that we go though the tiles
15:42:14 <NukeBuster> i could also use the same code going diagonal...
15:42:29 <Greyscale> Why does my server once its up, get a smattering of queries from lots of odd IP's?
15:42:57 <NukeBuster> as i use the x and y to loop... instead of the tyle
15:44:59 <peter1138> BEGIN_TILE_LOOP/END_TILE_LOOP are ugly. that's my comment.
15:45:26 <NukeBuster> so i should be free to use the for loops instead?
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16:03:46 <Greyscale> So what is the stock bug?
16:07:06 <Grey> So what is the stock bug?
16:17:58 <Grey> request: The sound of metal on metal sliding as trains are told to emergency stop
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16:21:31 <Belugas> maybe find a new way of doing that culd replace the macros?
16:21:55 <Belugas> that was aimed at NukeBuster...
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16:23:52 <Grey> NukeBuster, $10 says there is one on that creative commons site
16:24:26 <NukeBuster> i was about to make at least 2 new functions...
16:24:32 <NukeBuster> level and demolish...
16:24:56 <NukeBuster> which would be called inside the function hosting the loop
16:31:06 <Wolf01> TrueBrain, i found a glitch on the terrain
16:32:19 <Grey> Can I set the server to default every client to imperial measurements?
16:32:29 <Grey> I hate imperial, but we still measure in miles here
16:32:41 <Grey> miles per hour and metric otherwise
16:32:49 <Grey> needs a "UK measurements" mode
16:33:32 <glx> it's just a "visual" setting
16:33:33 <Belugas> NukeBuster, i was refering really to the process of tile walking, in the whole game...
16:33:34 <Wolf01> why? is a per-user settings like the valute
16:34:22 *** nairan_zzZZ is now known as nairan
16:36:00 <NukeBuster> i thought you were and i'm thinking of a way it could be dealt with
16:36:22 <NukeBuster> as i know you guys don't like macros ;)
16:38:22 *** skidd13 is now known as skidd13|dinner
16:42:10 <Belugas> some are good and welcome :) some are not
16:49:45 <Grey> Wolf01, because everything else in the server is UK ish
16:49:50 <Grey> its running the UK trains pack
16:50:55 <Wolf01> but i memorized the costs in €, so if you change it in £ i will buy a train instead another :)
16:54:59 <Wolf01> but i really feel if i'm making profit with $ or € instead of some other valute, i prefer to play with what i know
16:55:27 *** skidd13|dinner is now known as skidd13
16:58:31 <Grey> Wolf01, none of the trains are the same cost anyway in the UK pack
16:59:52 <Wolf01> i'm still of the same opinion, if is a per-user setting there is a reason
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17:09:50 <Grey> Wolf01, I don't give two shits.
17:10:06 <Grey> me and my relatives (all english) use this server for fucking about with trains 'n' shit
17:10:20 <Grey> and the client keeps "forgetting" that I told it to go imperial
17:10:41 <glx|away> how is set the server?
17:13:34 <Wolf01> i want a feature to set the language as italian when clients join... and maybe to other servers when i create mine
17:14:00 <Wolf01> so when i create mine, all must speak italian
17:14:23 <Wolf01> this is a nice thing for you?
17:16:01 *** glx|away is now known as glx
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17:24:42 <Grey> Wolf01, No, I own this server
17:24:54 <Grey> I just want to know how to make it make imperial the default >:(
17:25:08 <Grey> also: Question: Why are refinerys so close to the outsides?
17:25:37 <Wolf01> beat your friends with a bat until they understand to set it to imperial
17:25:47 *** Tino|Home is now known as TinoM
17:26:06 <Wolf01> i don't want a lager where the server master sets per-user settings
17:27:02 <Grey> units = metric -> units = imperial.
17:31:00 <Wolf01> is really so difficult for you to remember your friends to set it so? i already hate that some custom scenarios have grf saved on them, i want to play with mine settings in solo play, why do i must play with the settings decided by another player?
17:33:10 <Grey> But it forces metric *every time*
17:33:20 <Grey> so you're always fishing around in that menu to change it
17:33:25 <Grey> but now I win. So there.
17:33:48 <Wolf01> because it is saved in the scenario, open it with your editor, change it to imperial ad save it again
17:34:19 <Grey> And the sevrer was using metric.
17:34:24 <Grey> Now this is a pointless conversation.
17:34:33 <glx> then change the server setting
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17:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Grey> and the client keeps "forgetting" that I told it to go imperial <- settings are saved, change it from the title screen if you want it to be remembered for new games
17:39:10 <Grey> the server was forcing metric
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17:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> changing the config file is the same thing as changing from the title screen
17:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> and it is not "forcing" it is merely "suggesting"
17:47:21 <Grey> where does windows keep its config?
17:49:08 <Belugas> ini files, registries...
17:49:55 <Grey> In reference to the game...
17:50:11 <glx> you need to specify the version
17:51:10 <NukeBuster> @Belugas: Is it better to have one tile_loop function that has a flag to do the action diagonally or 2 functions (tile_loop, tile_loop_diagonal)
17:51:41 <glx> by default in My docs/openttd
17:51:49 <Belugas> good question NukeBuster.
17:52:02 <Belugas> from what i remember,
17:52:12 <Belugas> both ways are quite different
17:52:28 <glx> Grey: unless you put one in openttd.exe dir
17:52:28 <Belugas> so i can imagine having two loop fnct are possible,
17:52:32 <Grey> Why is there no electric rail in the tropical map?
17:52:49 <glx> no electric trains in default grf
17:52:55 <Bjarni> Grey: do you have any electric engines?
17:53:05 <Bjarni> because glx most likely has the answer
17:53:17 <Grey> I thought I replaced it with the UK newgrf
17:53:19 <Bjarni> newgrf can add them though
17:53:45 <Bjarni> read the readme. It solves most issues :p
17:55:43 <glx> try NARS for tropical but I don't know if it has electric engines
17:58:57 <Bjarni> I'm pretty sure it has GG1
17:59:34 <Bjarni> Sacro: it's not all of them, that's stupid. Pick the right one and stay with it
18:00:25 <Sacro> Karoo's DNS just went down :(
18:10:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> then you picked the wrong one, apparently :p
18:12:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> now see what you did...
18:14:07 <Noldo> what in the world is that?
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18:18:10 <tokai> whats wrong with SVN? :)
18:22:18 <ln-_> which one is the primary one for ottd?
18:24:03 <ln-_> are they synced with each other?
18:37:02 <MrBrrr> Hey, anyone here knows the OpenTTD code a bit?
18:38:40 <TrueBrain> who wrote OpenTTD anyway?
18:39:19 <Noldo> hmm, let's see the credits, won't find my name there!
18:40:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> Noldo: it's open source, you can always write your name in there, and redistribute it
18:41:37 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
18:41:54 <MrBrrr> Gotta like Brian Blessed :)
18:42:46 <Belugas> hooo... another montrealer :)
18:46:00 <Sionide> the band "Of Montreal" also rock
18:46:24 <Noldo> MrBrrr: anyway, just ask the question you had in mind
18:46:58 <MrBrrr> Which functions handles the city growth?
18:47:16 <MrBrrr> Not the actual town growing itself, but deciding if the town grows (rate and such).
18:47:51 <Belugas> [14:45] <MrBrrr> Montreal rocks :) <--- Yeah :) unless you're stuff on Descaries during rush hours, but tghat's the same on every big city :)
18:48:17 <Belugas> [14:46] <Sionide> the band "Of Montreal" also rock <---- Stone also Rock
18:48:28 <Belugas> stone... rock... got it?
18:50:06 <Belugas> ... stupid joke, isn't it ?
18:53:45 <Noldo> MrBrrr: there's GrowTown in town_cmd.cpp maybe you can track it from there
18:54:04 <MrBrrr> Wasn't openTTD coded in C? argh
18:54:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> it was, until all files got renamed :p
18:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> but that is like 3000 revisions ago
18:54:56 <Belugas> in trunk, not in "stable"
18:55:26 <MrBrrr> The trunk also has the new cargo packets right?
18:56:19 <Noldo> what did you have in mind?
18:58:12 <MrBrrr> As it is, it's quite depressing.
19:02:46 <Belugas> MrBrrr, you could check UpdateTownGrowRate in the same town_cmd.ccp file too
19:03:36 <Grey_> why does the newer cpp version compile far faster?
19:03:43 <Grey_> the c version took ages on my server
19:04:13 <Bjarni> that's a good question
19:04:34 <Bjarni> it's faster to determine dependancies
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19:05:43 <Bjarni> the actual compilation time is likely a little bit slower, but since the delay between typing make and the actual start of the compilation is smaller, then it might feel faster
19:06:19 <Bjarni> the dependancy stuff really slowed down with lag on disk access
19:07:18 <Bjarni> so if the CPU and the files (homedir) is in different servers connected with a LAN, then you will really notice a difference
19:07:24 *** Dark_Link^ute is now known as Dark_Link^
19:07:47 <Bjarni> Grey_: is that explanation enough? ;)
19:13:05 *** glx is now known as Guest2102
19:13:05 *** glx|away is now known as glx
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19:16:46 <Bjarni> Greyscale: did you miss my reply?
19:16:48 *** skidd13 has joined #openttd
19:17:34 <Bjarni> I think this is the best answer I can give you
19:17:36 <Greyscale> its a slow machine with a fast disk
19:17:43 <Greyscale> and its not x86 either
19:17:59 <Bjarni> if this isn't the reason, then I guess it has something to do with cosmic radiation and stellar placement
19:23:44 <skidd13> Which is faster AddTileIndexDiffCWrap(tile, tilediffc) or TILE_ADD(tile, ToTileIndexDiff(tilediffc)) ?
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19:46:26 <Belugas> skidd13, have you tried TIC/TOC for profiling?
19:49:38 <skidd13> I tried my performance meter and it was defenetly TILE_ADD.
19:53:03 <skidd13> Belugas: But It would be nice to hear some others result, cause the compiler could cause diffrences
19:55:00 <Bjarni> I tried TIC/TOC on a PPC and compared two functions. A took 100% (ref) and B took 150%. I then moved the source to a different computer and used GCC to compile the code again. Now both functions took 150%
19:55:15 <Bjarni> Function A was simply faster on PPC
19:55:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
19:55:43 <Bjarni> B took somewhere around the same on both
19:55:57 <Bjarni> which is rather interesting
19:59:29 <Greyscale> heh. As my 'leccy trains roll about it sounds like a hoove
20:38:07 <MrBrrr> Which functions handle vehicle depots?
20:38:22 <MrBrrr> Depot.cpp and Vehicle.cpp?
20:38:36 <skidd13> Hmm, towns are able to build crossing bridges!
20:39:24 <skidd13> At least at my patch. But I didn't modify the CMD for construction.
20:51:51 <skidd13> Are the cmd's threaded?
20:59:29 <glx> only saving to disk is threaded
21:00:16 <glx> doesn't count (not in trunk :P )
21:02:53 <Bjarni> <MrBrrr> Which functions handle vehicle depots? <--- that depends on what functions you want to touch. Vehicles has the VehicleEnterDepot() function, which basically handles vehicle related stuff like maintenance, autoreplace and so on. Depot is more the structure stuff
21:03:05 <Bjarni> they are however somewhat related
21:03:13 <Bjarni> and reading both wouldn't hurt
21:03:38 <skidd13> TrueBrain: The problem is. That it's hard to reproduce. :(
21:04:54 <skidd13> Or could it be a compiler fault?
21:05:09 <MrBrrr> Was the trunk's "realistic" acceleration improved?
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21:06:31 <Bjarni> we once had a bug that could "clear" tiles, but only on some platforms. It could result in half bridges and was a result of an overflow in town building upgrades being handled differently on PPC/x86 or different compilers
21:06:58 <Bjarni> since only the town could do it and it was platform dependant, it was really hard to find
21:07:28 <Bjarni> somehow your bug look a bit similar
21:09:16 <skidd13> Bjarni: Where was it located cause I'm working with the town code ATM.
21:10:23 <Bjarni> and it was on the old SVN server, so we lost the diff
21:12:27 <Bjarni> but basically it could make a 2x2 building on PPC OSX even when there was no room. The 2x2 building was then replaced by a 1x1 building, so it just cleared 3 tiles of whatever they contained and put grass on them. Windows just moved to the 1x1 building without affecting other buildings
21:12:47 <Bjarni> and this was due to different overflow handling of an unsigned char
21:14:47 <Bjarni> at least this happened like once every say 2nd year on a 256x256 map, so it was at least possible to reproduce
21:15:05 <Bjarni> the bug you found is either really new or really rare
21:15:59 <skidd13> rare the same thing occured at least 4 month (real life) ago. SO very rare
21:18:13 <Bjarni> looks like it's a bug in the town bridge building code. Do you have any idea of which bridge came first?
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21:19:09 *** Gebruiker is now known as Barry
21:21:25 <Bjarni> but it looks like it fails to detect that another bridge is there and build one anyway. I guess it builds the ends and then give up because the water tile is blocked, but the ends aren't removed
21:21:49 <Bjarni> but the ends shouldn't have been built in the first place
21:22:48 <skidd13> My guess is that it's located in CMD_BUILD_BRIDGE, cause that's what the town_bridge_construction calls
21:23:49 <skidd13> I take a look at it tomorrow. Good night
21:26:06 <MrBrrr> My goodness, where does he live?
21:27:00 <Bjarni> in the same timezone as me
21:27:11 * Bjarni wonders about leaving as well
21:27:40 <Bjarni> oh, you are on the other side of the Atlantic
21:27:58 <Bjarni> being so close to Bush must hurt
21:28:32 <MrBrrr> He's a funny little skamp.
21:28:39 <Bjarni> I said Bush, not bush :p
21:30:42 <Bjarni> it's not in the dictionary :(
21:32:04 <MrBrrr> Oh, that's me, I keep writing words with Ks instead of Cs.
21:34:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
21:39:02 <Grey> shit man, this game should be called openCrack
21:39:06 <Grey> its about as addictive :|
21:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> Barry: you might have more luck in the coop channel...
21:41:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> MrBrrr: writing 'k' instead of 'c' is a very germanism :p
21:41:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's why all KDE programs look so german :p
21:42:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, most people in here are from europe...
21:48:07 <Bjarni> <MrBrrr> Oh, that's me, I keep writing words with Ks instead of Cs. <--- that would explain it and now I agree with you
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21:51:31 <Barry> Thz Eddy but no one there :-(
21:51:51 <Barry> And I had a question about the japan tain set
21:52:47 <Bjarni> worst case: we can't answer. It's not like we will kill you for asking ;)
21:53:01 <Barry> how can I make the bulletloc on both sides (front and end)
21:54:47 <Bjarni> I don't get the question :(
21:55:08 <Bjarni> you want a train with an engine in each end?
21:55:42 <Bjarni> then just build it and drag the wagons/engines to the train in the order you like
21:55:54 * Grey gets bored, renames all the functions
21:56:15 <Bjarni> if it's rejected, then there is some grf overwrite to prevent that combo and then you aren't allowed to do it... simple as that
21:56:40 <Bjarni> Grey: that's poor names
21:56:40 <Barry> normally I do that but the direction of the endengine is wrong
21:57:05 <Bjarni> control-click on the engine to turn it around
21:57:28 <Bjarni> I coded that feature because I had the same issue in the US train set
21:57:39 <Bjarni> but it only works on single unit engines/wagons
21:58:00 <Bjarni> and might have offset issues if the grf file is coded poorly
21:58:05 <glx> and use it only for "normal" sized ones
21:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> i want to drive my BR 18 backwards ;)
21:59:11 <glx> you never finished this patch :)
21:59:32 <Bjarni> it ended up getting buggy by design :(
21:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> was that the one where it puffed from the wrong end?
21:59:50 <Bjarni> no, the engine actually works as intended
22:00:19 <Bjarni> but it's hell to put it like that and it was likely to go wrong. I took the screenshot in the moment when it acted correctly
22:00:44 <Bjarni> it crashed the first like two times before I managed to actually do it and I never cleaned the crashes out of the patch
22:00:55 <Bjarni> and because of that, I never committed it
22:01:32 <Bjarni> but it made Eddi|zuHause2 shut up about his feature request :)
22:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> i was about to write "but that is not a BR 18!" :p
22:02:42 <Bjarni> but odds are that I could make this work with BR 18 as well
22:03:47 <Bjarni> the problem with this patch is that all sorts of info about the train is stored in the front vehicle. Turning the engine around made the tank engine first, hence a whole lot of info and pointers needed to be updated
22:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> in the next step, i want engine switching at terminus stations, and turntables
22:03:53 <Bjarni> it was a complete mess
22:04:47 <Bjarni> and I didn't want to add bugs and crashes just to add eye candy
22:05:40 <Bjarni> Barry stopped talking. I guess his problem is gone, so we will never see him again
22:06:22 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: I don't think that was the intended result :P
22:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is the "before" picture, though
22:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> but without empty space, there is not much chance of defragmentation :)
22:07:47 <Barry> I have found it Bjarni. I was testing it thats why I was quiet
22:07:50 <Bjarni> you actually need a decent amount of free space to defrag efficiently
22:09:37 *** Diabolic-Angel has quit IRC
22:13:08 <Bjarni> guys, I'm wondering about adding a string to the patches menu. I wrote a patch so it's selectable how to emulate right mouse button on single button mice on OSX and now the patch window contains:
22:13:09 <Bjarni> :{LTBLUE}Right-click emulation: {ORANGE}{STRING1}
22:13:37 <Bjarni> if I enable control-click, the ingame control-click will be command-click
22:13:52 <Bjarni> any idea on how to write that without overflowing the window? :)
22:14:44 <Bjarni> I would still need to figure out how to explain it without writing a novel
22:15:13 <glx> we need a way to have multiline patches settings
22:16:01 <Wolf01> or at least a little description on the window, and a novel with right-click on it
22:17:18 <Bjarni> :Control-click (use command as control ingame) <-- is that understandable?
22:17:36 <Bjarni> and should we care that "e)" is outside the window?
22:17:47 <Bjarni> it is mac specific. It only shows on mac
22:18:40 <Smoovious> can leave off 'ingame'... like, where else are ya gonna use it?
22:18:49 <Bjarni> but otherwise this is the patch
22:19:06 <Bjarni> pretty mac specific as it uses #ifdef __APPLE__ and cocoa_v.mm
22:20:11 <Bjarni> :Control-click (use command as control) <-- now I'm not sure that n00bs will understand this one :s
22:21:11 <glx> Bjarni: why not use a bool (as it has only 2 values)
22:21:32 <Bjarni> because I use 3 different options
22:21:38 <ln-_> glx: Bjarni for some reason wants to use 3 options here
22:22:14 <glx> I see only 0 and 1 in the diff
22:22:34 <Bjarni> since I mess with this anyway, I find it logical to be able to turn off the emulation if people have a multibutton mouse
22:23:05 <Bjarni> so if it's set to 2, then it behaves like in linux and windows, where it relies on the right mouse button only
22:23:27 * ln-_ sees no reason for the "Off" setting
22:23:32 <Bjarni> no special key-mouse combos
22:24:35 <ln-_> Bjarni: if one finds that setting and changes it, i think it won't take many seconds to guess what key to use instead of Control...
22:24:59 <ln-_> so it is unnecessary to try to give much instructions in the option name..
22:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> so why not call the setting "Right mouse button emulation" {Ctrl-click|Cmd-click|off}
22:25:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> off should probably be 0 ;)
22:26:19 <ln-_> Eddi|zuHause2: a bit too long, and "Right-click emulation" is quite unambiguous anyway.
22:26:58 <Bjarni> users of single button mice are somewhat familiar with right click emulation
22:27:53 <ln-_> users single-button mice include users of all Apple laptops (touchpads).
22:27:57 <Bjarni> the emulation part will not have to be explained in details
22:29:57 <Bjarni> maybe I should make an enum instead of using magic numbers
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22:48:20 <Rubidium> Bjarni: enums are completly uppercased
22:48:28 <Rubidium> (or rather, they should be)
22:48:44 <Bjarni> luckily that's easy to fix
22:51:19 <Bjarni> reload if you want to see the same letters in uppercase ;)
22:51:30 <ln-_> i still think you could leave out the "(use command as control)"
22:52:53 <ln-_> if someone changes that setting and notices the Ctrl is not working as it was before, it won't take long to find out what to press instead.
22:52:54 <Bjarni> I'm trying to avoid countless people showing up here or on the forum "now that I selected control as right key emulation, I can no longer control click anything in the game"
22:53:12 <Bjarni> not to mention bug reports about this
22:53:12 <ln-_> especially given that Command very often does things that Ctrl does on PC.
22:53:56 <ln-_> that instruction there creates more confusion than it helps, in my opinion.
22:54:12 <Bjarni> "normal" people would likely figure this out, but I care about not being interrupted by the remaining 2%
22:54:58 <ln-_> "Control-click (use command as control)" -> "Wtf, I'm supposed to use Command-click here too?"
22:55:28 <Rubidium> press both CTRL and command ;)
22:55:44 <ln-_> i'd press the power button first.
22:55:46 <Bjarni> <glx> and mac users are smart <-- there are exceptions. I was once told to fix a powerbook. It had dead hardware. I looked at it and plugged in the power supply and it worked just fine. I charged the battery and reported the computer good to go after testing the now charged battery
22:57:28 <ln-_> Bjarni: i'll promise to personally give guidance on irc to anyone who can't find the ctrl after changing that setting.
22:58:48 <ln-_> in "Control-click (use command as control)" it is very confusing that "control" refers to two different "controls".
22:58:58 <Rubidium> command as ctrl might not be a good idea for people with that "special" OSX Dvorak layout
22:59:16 <Rubidium> I wonder what "command"-S is going to do
23:01:14 <Bjarni> it should open the save window, but I don't think I ever implemented that feature
23:01:32 <Rubidium> well... that's the question
23:01:42 <Rubidium> btw CTRL-S does the screenshot
23:02:29 <Rubidium> *but* with the "special" OSX Dvorak layout command "switches" (while pressing the key) to QWERTY
23:02:39 <Bjarni> well, if I set the emulation to CTRL, then command-s will take a screenshot
23:02:49 <Rubidium> so either your application gets CTRL-O or it only get O
23:04:01 <Bjarni> I don't know that keyboard, so I can't tell you how well it works with my patch/OpenTTD
23:04:12 <Rubidium> Bjarni: then select it
23:04:26 <Rubidium> it's a keyboard layout, just like QWERTY and AZERTY
23:04:37 <Rubidium> so you can actually test it
23:05:00 <Rubidium> *or* you are not in the "smart" mac users group
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23:07:44 <Bjarni> doesn't appear to have any issues
23:08:12 <MrBrrr> TrainController(Vehicle *v, bool update_image) is used to do what exactly?
23:08:21 <Bjarni> however using dvorak with a QWERTY keyboard makes typing hard
23:08:41 <glx> MrBrrr: to control a train as the function name says
23:08:59 <MrBrrr> It's the train's "AI" ?
23:13:09 <Bjarni> gee, I think I'm getting eccentric. I'm speaking to me, which would very well be myself
23:14:41 <glx> <@Bjarni> gee, I think I'm getting eccentric. I'm speaking to me, which would very well be myself <-- no you're not me
23:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, you're talking to me
23:15:46 <Bjarni> I'm talking to me, not you
23:16:03 *** Phazorx is now known as they
23:16:19 *** they is now known as Phazorx
23:16:35 * I think this is could be confusing
23:17:10 * you aren't strong enough to carry that name
23:17:28 <you> --- You are now known as you
23:18:38 <glx> you will be highlighted a lot
23:19:58 <MrBrrr> What would be a good tool to use to compile OpenTTD under Windows (I know, forgive me).
23:20:29 <glx> it's the easiest way but very big
23:20:48 <glx> mingw+msys works well too, but may be hard to setup
23:22:10 * Sionide is recruiting 3 or 4 more ottd players as we speak
23:22:14 <Sionide> i love spreading the love
23:22:23 <Sionide> sorry, i'm in a weird mood
23:22:44 <MrBrrr> Yeah, MSVC++ is out of the question :)
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23:41:14 <MrBrrr> My username having a space in it sorta messes with MSYS
23:41:35 <glx> "Please note that MSYS should be installed to a directory path that doesn't contain any spaces."
23:42:21 <MrBrrr> What I mean is that when I start MSYS is uses my username to create the folder inside Home
23:42:24 <MrBrrr> And that contains a space.
23:43:20 <glx> hmm I see and it doesn't like that
23:43:34 <MrBrrr> It's ok, found a way out.
23:44:31 <Sacro> edit the folder name in /etc/passwd
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continue to next day ⏵
