IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-08-27
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00:00:06 <TrueBrain> the softest line possible
00:00:35 <Nickman> on the slopes it goes wrong, because it doesn't follow the steps...
00:00:46 <Nickman> I think that's what's making it ugly...
00:00:52 <TrueBrain> look only to the flat tiles
00:01:02 <TrueBrain> the rest ... needs a bit of work to make pretty :p
00:05:01 <Nickman> heroes FINAL EPISODE!!!!
00:09:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> so, you're now too lazy to post links :p
00:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> the lines look better now :)
00:15:13 <TrueBrain> grrr, light is very tricky...
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00:18:03 <TrueBrain> yeah, it is, but besides that?
00:18:41 <Nickman> looks good, the line is more realistic and not so hard on the eye
00:19:02 <TrueBrain> depth is good visible
00:19:33 <TrueBrain> it sucks that light comes from the east :p
00:19:43 <Nickman> yeah, only the slopes..., the tiles don't seem to be horizontal :s
00:20:26 <TrueBrain> on the west side they do
00:20:29 <TrueBrain> on the east side a bit less
00:21:47 <Sacro> TrueBrain: done a truck cab :D
00:41:12 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: richk * r10987 /branches/NewGRF_ports/docs/NewGRFAirports.doc: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Updated spec to describe use of keydepot_pos in multi-tile depot definitions.
00:42:42 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: richk * r10988 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/newgrf.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Feature: 0xFF in a block list indicates SetAll. This is best used in the release block, where it effectively releases all currently held blocks.
00:43:35 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: richk * r10989 /branches/NewGRF_ports/bin/data/realworldairports.grf: [NewGRF_ports] -Feature: San Francisco airport now available in realworldairports.grf.
00:45:02 <Nickman> omg, what a stupid ending of Heroes?
00:46:02 <Bjarni> do I look like I care? :p
00:46:22 <Bjarni> but you just made sure that I will not start to watch it X)
00:46:41 <Bjarni> well, I wouldn't anyway. Somebody compared it to Lost
00:46:42 <TrueBrain> why is it stupid? :)
00:47:23 <Nickman> It's nothing the ending :p
00:47:28 <Nickman> it just isn't an ending
00:47:33 <Nickman> it's just another episode :p
00:47:42 <Bjarni> I think basically because there are no more episodes. It's the same with all series... you get sad that it's all over
00:48:17 <Nickman> There will be new ones in september ;)
00:48:20 <TrueBrain> but maybe it is just getting used to...
00:48:31 <Nickman> It looks pretty good, but a bit boring with only green on screen... :p
00:48:40 <TrueBrain> that might be the problem indeed :)
00:48:41 <Nickman> show us in a pretty landscape ;)
00:48:49 <Nickman> with some trees, maybe a house
00:49:20 <Bjarni> and have it done by tomorrow morning :p
00:49:37 <Bjarni> I think we will go for all green for a while
00:49:45 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: you would be supprised how easy it becomes from here
00:50:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, the steps from the front left could be a tiny bit lighter
00:50:12 <Bjarni> and since it's lego, it can't be boring
00:50:15 <TrueBrain> I still think the nops don't have enough accent
00:50:39 <Nickman> nope, need to be a bit darker
00:50:56 <TrueBrain> the east and south-east slopes need a fixup
00:50:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i think they stuck out a little more in your first attempts
00:51:06 <TrueBrain> as light-fall goes wrong because it misses tiles :p
00:51:36 <TrueBrain> but okay, light work I can leave to _Ben_ :p Mwhahahhaa :)
00:51:47 <TrueBrain> I have a few more tiles to model
00:52:28 <TrueBrain> _Ben_: I was joking ;) But I am pretty stuck with lights
00:52:31 <_Ben_> the light setup is aracrions..where the hell is he?
00:52:35 <TrueBrain> I can't find a nice way to highlight ALL things I want...
00:53:06 <TrueBrain> but okay, I will now first finish the missing tiles :)
00:53:07 <_Ben_> The last render you just showed looks nice by the way
00:53:27 <_Ben_> I'm just making some more bricks!...I'm getting addicted to this
00:54:19 <TrueBrain> your bricks look much better btw :)
00:54:27 <TrueBrain> and the dimensions are slightly more right :p
00:54:31 <TrueBrain> but that is dumb luck I guess
00:54:46 <TrueBrain> the lastest pics I showed here are with your bricks :p Hehe :)
00:55:03 <TrueBrain> I am going to try to change the import from ldr to use your bricks, instead of the ones from ldraw :)
00:55:11 <_Ben_> its scary, I've began to release how ever bit of every lego bit has been thourght about so much. There is such consistence in the measurements, so I worked out a few, and I've just referenced the rest from them
00:55:35 <TrueBrain> the design is pretty simple, still it is so creative :)
00:56:10 <TrueBrain> I am starting to understand Blender :)
00:56:23 <_Ben_> I notice that for every slot that another brick can go in there is a little additional small hole above. I wonder if that is to allow a slight space to compress air as the bits fit so tightly
00:56:29 <Nickman> you're doing great ;)
00:57:21 <TrueBrain> _Ben_: possible; what Inoticed is that the hollowing is exactly a smaller version of the rest
00:57:33 <TrueBrain> maybe it just has to do with production process
00:58:22 <Nickman> yeah, to use less plastic?
00:58:27 <_Ben_> I've spotted some new ways of sticking some bricks together tonight, which I only released when I released the mearurments were exactly the same so tried it out
00:59:38 <TrueBrain> at the bottom of a plate? :)
00:59:45 <TrueBrain> in every hole of technic lego? :)
00:59:48 <_Ben_> half tick, I released you would say that so I'm uploading an image
00:59:49 <TrueBrain> they are _all_ the same dimensions
01:00:07 <TrueBrain> realised _Ben_, not released ;)
01:01:49 * Sacro is almost done with his lorry
01:02:24 <_Ben_> the red veichical bumper can attach the shorter fatter poles to each end, wich I've never done before
01:02:27 <Nickman> are you going to model every signle brick there is? :D
01:02:40 <Sacro> Nickman: there are an AWFUL lot of bricks
01:03:17 <Nickman> The ccombinations in lego are endless ;)
01:03:21 <Sacro> i have about 4600 files in my parts draw
01:03:21 <Nickman> but now, I'm going to bed
01:03:32 <_Ben_> I hope that about 10% are used 99% of the time, so I can make those, and start putting together some models
01:03:33 <TrueBrain> _Ben_: very impressive :)
01:03:35 <Nickman> after spending my intire night on Heroes...
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01:07:52 <Bjarni> speaking of dreams, I'm heading for mine now
01:08:11 <TrueBrain> doh, I made my tiles wrong :) haha :)
01:08:15 <TrueBrain> foutje bedankt baas
01:08:50 <TrueBrain> first time I fucked up my first attempt :) Hehe
01:10:16 <_Ben_> Are the trains/vans/planes/ships going to be scaled differnetly for the lego set do you think? At only 4 tiles per square it would be hard to get detail due to a low amount of lego bits
01:11:05 <TrueBrain> forgot that Z=0 isn't ground-level :)
01:11:23 <TrueBrain> _Ben_: the idea was to use 8 tiles per square for buildings
01:11:28 <TrueBrain> and 24 for aircrafts
01:11:41 <TrueBrain> but I guess it will be: anything that looks good enough :p
01:13:09 <_Ben_> cool...interesting. So single ground tiles will be a set of rendered tiles? or will they be single tiles, and everything else just large?
01:13:28 <TrueBrain> how do you mean, sorry?
01:14:09 <Sacro> does anyone want an articulated lego rv?
01:14:44 <Sacro> i need a users.tt-forums page
01:15:37 <_Ben_> TrueBrain: Will Ottd handle each grass tile as 1 tile, or would many be stiched together to make some tiles? I'm just wondering, becuase if a grass tile is 1 OTTD tile, then a train which is 16 would have problems as any long train currently has
01:15:40 <TrueBrain> most of the time it is more useful to ask the person in charge :)
01:16:06 <TrueBrain> _Ben_: 4x4 lego-blocks are 1 OTTD tile
01:16:17 <TrueBrain> see my latest image, the darker lines indicate the OTTD tiles
01:17:10 <TrueBrain> I wonder if we can make Blender understand our color remapping stuff :)
01:17:39 <_Ben_> confusing termonology. Are the bumps on lego bricks called bumps?!
01:18:19 <TrueBrain> let's call them bumps
01:18:23 <TrueBrain> then we all understand eachother :)
01:18:59 <TrueBrain> Sacro: can you render a resulting image? :)
01:19:00 <_Ben_> "studs" wikipedia has it as
01:19:07 <TrueBrain> studs, also fine :)
01:22:21 <TrueBrain> _Ben_: anyway, dunno if you ment this, but: ground-tiles use 'duplo', where 4 studs make 1 tile. Buildings will use normal lego, where 8 studs make 1 tile
01:22:34 <TrueBrain> I just really hope it is enough detail
01:23:19 <TrueBrain> Sacro: they didn't here either
01:24:11 <_Ben_> ah right, it's duplo. Ok that makes sence
01:24:27 <Sacro> TrueBrain: my importer has the ability to save rendertime by smoothing them out
01:24:36 <Sacro> unfortunatly, the switch for telling it not to, doesn't work
01:25:16 <_Ben_> Sacro: cool little jeep
01:25:30 <TrueBrain> I will look into the importer tomorrow Sacro
01:25:45 <TrueBrain> k, I believe I have just 2 tiles left to create the model for
01:26:04 <Sacro> _Ben_: zomg, what jeep?
01:26:21 <Sacro> its a truck cab and trailer
01:26:50 <_Ben_> ah right, I'm just rendering, I'll check when it comes around again, I didn't realise they wen't together
01:29:54 <TrueBrain> hmm, how to do those 2 tiles...
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01:32:06 <TrueBrain> hmm, you have hills and ....
01:32:11 <TrueBrain> what is the name for that?
01:32:17 <TrueBrain> hills going downwards ;)
01:34:39 <TrueBrain> there are 2 tiles in OTTD where it goes up on both sides, left and right
01:34:39 <TrueBrain> I need a clear name for them :p
01:34:39 <TrueBrain> too late for me to think :)
01:34:39 <TrueBrain> haha, someone with too much time :)
01:34:39 <TrueBrain> very nice idea for street-road
01:34:39 <_Ben_> That video is pretty sweet. If I modelled all the bricks and assembled them I could get them to collaps like that in the havok reactor max has
01:37:23 <_Ben_> I call them the valley tiles sometimes
01:37:48 <Smoovious> valley tile would have a valley in them
01:37:52 <_Ben_> a ridge would be convex, the TT tiles are concave
01:38:48 <Sacro> i wonder if ldraw -> povray -> blender would give better models
01:38:57 <TrueBrain> valley! YEAH! That was the word :)
01:39:15 <Smoovious> he is right tho... I thought those tiles were center-raised, not center-loweredd
01:39:23 <TrueBrain> Sacro: I couldn't find a povray -> blender , only blender -> povray
01:40:49 <Sacro> povanim is the wrong way
01:42:26 <TrueBrain> and that is sprite 18 and 19...
01:44:05 <Sacro> and it comes with a .tex readme
01:44:12 <Sacro> i wonder if TrueBrain himself did it
01:44:24 <TrueBrain> wow, perfect job, amazing :)
01:46:07 <Sacro> TrueBrain: an ldraw blender plugin with instructions in .tex format :)
01:46:11 <Sacro> i know your fondness for it
01:46:21 <TrueBrain> haha, I am fast, but not that fast :p
01:46:53 <TrueBrain> (didn't know about Blender until, what, 3 days ago? :p)
01:48:17 <TrueBrain> and run openttd with '-b 32bpp-simple'
01:52:57 <TrueBrain> lol, tt-forums doens't allow .blend files :p
01:56:47 <TrueBrain> including the .blend file
01:58:11 <TrueBrain> the .blend is, as almost all .blends seem to be, 364 kiB :p
01:58:23 <TrueBrain> I am happy with the result :)
01:58:35 <TrueBrain> creating the other images is now relative easy, as it is just changing material ;)
01:59:24 <TrueBrain> tnx all for the feedback :)
01:59:25 <Sacro> TrueBrain: i found some other importers
01:59:38 <TrueBrain> Sacro: let me know when you have a nice result :)
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02:04:12 <Sacro> TrueBrain: how many lego units per blender unit?
03:50:58 <_Ben_> havn't got time for the back, gotta head off, night
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10:04:43 <TrueBrain> Nickman: you noticed? You can load my bricks yourself! :p
10:04:55 <Nickman> what? OMG ROFL LOL W000T
10:05:14 <Nickman> Did you just make that post? :p
10:05:34 <TrueBrain> Nickman: 8 hours ago
10:06:04 <Nickman> why didn't I see it then earlier...
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10:09:13 <Nickman> Gonna try it in a sec ;)
10:10:04 <Nickman> with the 32-bpp blitter, my game gets choppy even when no png files for 32bpp are loaded...
10:11:44 <TrueBrain> Nickman: 32bpp-anim or 32bpp-simple
10:12:00 <TrueBrain> what kind of hardware?
10:12:24 <TrueBrain> how does it preform against 8bpp-simple?
10:12:40 <Nickman> when there are no vehicles an stuff, everything goos as smooth as possible, but on the startscreen for example with the in game animations on the background, it get choppy
10:13:07 <TrueBrain> What is the screen depth? Dual monitor?
10:13:12 <TrueBrain> What kind of video-card?
10:13:15 <Nickman> havn't tried 8bbp-simple
10:13:24 <Nickman> geforce 8800 GTS 320 MB
10:13:33 <Nickman> 1920x1200 (I think :D)
10:14:15 <TrueBrain> can you compile with sdl support and try -v sdl
10:14:25 <TrueBrain> as I really don't see how it can be slow on such a machine
10:14:29 <TrueBrain> here it runs normally
10:14:40 <Nickman> well, the smaller the screen the more fluent it goes :)
10:14:50 <TrueBrain> which resolution is non-fluent?
10:14:58 <Nickman> I can only compile in Visual studio
10:15:08 <Nickman> can you set a certain resolution?
10:15:12 <Nickman> I just drag it so... :p
10:15:20 <TrueBrain> yeah, about which resolution is slow?
10:15:57 <TrueBrain> dual monitor, 2048xsomething, still as fast as 8bpp....
10:16:08 <Nickman> screen is nog at 959 width and 837 height and it get choppy when alot of things are moving on the startscreen
10:17:02 <TrueBrain> it has to be noted that 32bpp-simple is absolutely not optimized in any way
10:17:09 <TrueBrain> but it should be as slow as 8bpp-simple
10:17:23 <TrueBrain> with the only differense that it is just a bit more slow, because of the 32bpp alpha stuff :p
10:17:37 <TrueBrain> but I have a simple AMD 3000+ here
10:17:39 <TrueBrain> and I don't notice it :p
10:18:00 <TrueBrain> in FastForward it is slower, I blieve 30% or something
10:18:04 <Nickman> with the 8bpp, no problem what so ever
10:18:18 <TrueBrain> hmmm, we need to trace this :)
10:18:57 <TrueBrain> but disable Full Animation in-game
10:19:28 <TrueBrain> should be much slower :p
10:19:49 <Nickman> 32bpp-simple is very slow where 8bpp-simple runs very smooth so... :s
10:22:23 <Nickman> there is a hight difference I believe
10:22:47 <Nickman> and the slopes differ to little from the level tiles :s
10:23:26 <TrueBrain> you do know ctrl+s makes a screenshot, right?
10:23:47 <TrueBrain> the tiles go downwards a bit later
10:24:01 <TrueBrain> but I understand it looks confusing
10:24:08 <TrueBrain> I will see if I can move the tile downwards sooner
10:24:21 <TrueBrain> but that looks ugly at the bottom
10:24:47 <TrueBrain> but I can always try :)
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11:11:42 <Greyscale> How can I improve the performance of a server on a less-than-hot connection?
11:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> increase net_frame_freq?
11:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> limit the number of clients?
11:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it is said that one client takes up 3kb/s, if you set net_frame_freq = 3 then this would lower to 1kb/s
11:14:18 <Greyscale> well, it SHOULD have 240KB/s bandwidth
11:14:24 <Greyscale> and its not overloading the CPU
11:14:43 * frosch123 can reproduce the "65533 kirby paul tanks" bug
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11:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> disable the filesharing tool :p
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14:00:42 <Belugas> [07:15] * frosch123 can reproduce the "65533 kirby paul tanks" bug <-- that is really nice :)
14:01:31 <frosch123> There was a bit luck involved.
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14:12:48 <Belugas> just saw your addition to bug report
14:13:20 <frosch123> Well, I don't think I am myself able to fix it.
14:13:52 <Bjarni> based on that description, I have an idea on where the bug is
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14:14:14 <Bjarni> but the description is good
14:14:56 <frosch123> What me bothers most is, that the engine counts are changed, before the vehicles get removed.
14:15:12 <Bjarni> I didn't like that part either
14:15:51 <Bjarni> but to be honest, when I coded this, I tested it, but I didn't crash test it well
14:16:25 <Bjarni> if people would just behave, then nobody would have notice any bugs in collisions :p
14:16:44 * Bjarni notes that he will not drive with frosch123
14:19:16 <Bjarni> I know a lot of people I wouldn't drive with
14:19:48 <Bjarni> and I know a lot of people I would drive with (luckily I'm in the last group)
14:20:16 <Bjarni> it would be bad to drive so reckless that you wouldn't want to get in a car with yourself
14:22:21 <Bjarni> well, I have declared myself temporally unable to drive, but that was due to being ill, not drunk
14:28:28 <TrueBrain> Blue Dragon is addicting :)
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14:33:57 <TrueBrain> Nickman: the tile you said looked wrong, can't be done more correctly... I see that in some cases it looks a bit weird, but there is no real way to fix it, so it seems
14:34:20 <TrueBrain> hmm, in fact, one other way might help
14:38:17 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, that looks better :)
15:02:53 <TrueBrain> as it is coded in the source, that is how it is done
15:04:14 <TrueBrain> like asking how a bird flies
15:04:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... when did we make the transition from "it is done when it is done" to "it is done how it is done"?
15:05:13 <glx> well the first one is for unfinished stuff
15:06:11 <TrueBrain> the second is for very unclear questions
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15:15:45 <Nickman> can you show your solution TrueBrain?
15:16:23 <TrueBrain> Nickman: yeah, in a moment
15:16:31 <TrueBrain> currently I am trying to find a fast way to make tiles for other colors
15:22:58 <TrueBrain> cool, I can crash blender
15:26:07 <TrueBrain> the color-node system of Blender is amazing :)
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15:34:59 <TrueBrain> you can put all kind of systems between the inputs and outputs
15:35:03 <TrueBrain> to modify the color of an object
15:35:08 <TrueBrain> based on.. pretty much everything
15:35:12 <TrueBrain> from coordinates, to color
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15:54:22 <Grey> Eddi|zuHause, I ment "how do I try it"
15:54:40 <TrueBrain> when the sun goes down
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16:13:33 <SmatZ> errr if you are talking about the last comment, I was just asking Rubidium if it is worth continuing to work on that , because Rubidium said there will be some changes in the code
16:13:49 <SmatZ> and if the concept is OK :)
16:28:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: richk * r10990 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (bin/data/realworldairports.grf src/station_cmd.cpp):
16:28:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Feature: If ground tile 0x0F8D is used in an airport tileseq, the correct snow/desert tile is displayed.
16:28:59 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: realworldairports.grf uses feature in all three airports, for under antennas, radars, etc.
16:36:58 <Nickman> now lego land looks all sad TrueBrain... :(
16:39:17 <TrueBrain> yeah, I am in a sad mood :p
16:41:31 <TrueBrain> I just want to change the color of material after a few frames
16:41:40 <TrueBrain> sounds like a basic thing, I mean... you want things to change color of time, not?
16:44:29 <TrueBrain> ah, think I found it
16:47:39 <Greyscale> how can I stop it autosaving every month?
16:47:49 <Greyscale> autosave = yearly is already done but its ignoring it
17:19:55 <svip> How do you stop a python script?
17:20:29 <svip> Well... stop the entire execution.
17:22:27 <svip> I am writing the script.
17:22:33 <svip> And I have a case where I want execution to stop.
17:22:37 <Wolf01> maybe there is an "exit" or "break"
17:22:59 <svip> It's not exit, quit or stop.
17:24:00 <Wolf01> Python has no statement to exit execution of a program or module before "running off the end". You could use sys.exit(), but this requires an initial import sys.
17:24:49 <svip> Good thing I need sys for something else.
17:24:53 <svip> ! So it's already imported. :D
17:26:07 <Wolf01> return x-y, x+y <- wtf?
17:26:44 <SpComb> sys.exit raises a SystemExit exception
17:27:10 <SpComb> ideally, you'd just return from your main function and then drop off the end of the module
17:27:34 <SpComb> the usual def main (...) : .... if __name__ == '__main__' : main() pattern
17:28:13 <SpComb> with command-line argument parsing in the if, and then calling main with the processed arguments
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17:33:59 <svip> I don't see the exception though.
17:34:04 <svip> Or is it caught somewhere?
17:35:19 <SpComb> it's an internal python thing
17:36:14 <svip> Will Python run main() by itself?
17:36:25 <SpComb> no, see the if stuff above
17:36:50 <svip> if __name__ == '__main__' : main() << Sorry I'm not quite sure I follow.
17:37:12 <svip> Inside main() or after it?
17:38:29 <SpComb> although I think the getopt stuff goes outside the main function
17:39:10 <svip> sys.exit() in mine does happen upon an IOError.
17:39:21 <svip> I just wanted to write my own personal insult to the user.
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18:48:36 <Bjarni> you want enlightenment?
18:49:10 <Bjarni> if you want info about the game or source, then this is the channel to go to
18:49:17 <Bjarni> except... I can't answer you :p
18:50:30 <skidd13> Bjarni: What'S the right therm then?
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18:51:31 <Maedhros> hi skidd13, hi Bjarni
18:51:36 <Bjarni> Maedhros: <skidd13> I'm thinking over converting the int dir in town_cmd to DiagDirection dir, but I miss something. Can someone enlight me? http://paste.openttd.org/206
18:51:42 <Bjarni> maybe you can answer this one
18:52:56 <Maedhros> hmm. i haven't really looked at the town road layouts
18:53:22 <skidd13> I looked at it too much ;)
18:54:03 <Maedhros> for what it's worth the switch (dir % 4) { } could be turned into dir & 3 with a table lookup
18:54:20 <Maedhros> although the compiler might do that for you anyway
18:54:56 <skidd13> Maedhros: Sure, but that shouldn't be the point.
18:55:45 <Maedhros> i'm not entirely sure what that code should be doing though (and the cider isn't helping ;)
18:56:42 <skidd13> I hope to make it more readable...
18:58:13 *** mikl__ is now known as mikl
19:14:59 <skidd13> Can I have som dev comments for FS1161
19:22:07 <svip> :| skidd13. I must admit, I am not pleased with your nick.
19:22:27 <svip> Dunno if Bjarni has already told you, but it reminds me too much of the Danish word for "shit".
19:22:59 <Belugas> reminds me of Skiddley Diddley :) So i'm cool with it :D
19:23:02 <Bjarni> now you made me think of skidd13 as a shitty person :(
19:23:30 <svip> I don't apologies for my native language!
19:24:16 <skidd13> No problem there are lot of names that sounds strange
19:24:50 <Bjarni> sounds like the jettekuk quote X)
19:25:38 <Bjarni> some UK guy named Jettek had this nick and somebody mentioned that jette kuk means giant cock in Swedish
19:27:15 * Belugas hates reading those bit manipulation patches... nightmares...
20:01:27 <skidd13> Are there spreadshirts availible for openttd?
20:01:54 <Sionide> what's a spreadshirt?
20:05:06 <skidd13> Those T-Shirts with logos on it.
20:06:10 <skidd13> Like mozilla does with the FF logo.
20:07:34 <skidd13> Why shame? It would be cool to spread openttd all over the world. These spreadshirts are more or less public relations.
20:07:58 <Sionide> i hate wearing t-shirts that everyone asks what it is on it...
20:08:14 <Bjarni> solution: don't wear a t-shirt
20:08:42 <skidd13> Sionide: That's what they are for :D
20:10:03 <Belugas> never heard the name before
20:10:39 <Belugas> we've made "spreadshirts" for our diving club.even my kid has one :)
20:11:07 <skidd13> I read it on a german website and thought it's an anglicism.
20:11:57 <Sionide> i hadn't heard it before either
20:12:03 <Bjarni> I have a spread shirt I once got for free with an order in an online shop (since the order was big enough). When it arrived, it turned out to be a walking billboard commercial for that shop
20:12:52 <Bjarni> <skidd13> Are there spreadshirts availible for openttd? <--- not that I know of
20:13:11 <skidd13> That's why I'm asking here
20:15:36 <XeryusTC> i have a TTRS building on my desk
20:15:38 <XeryusTC> made out of paper :P
20:16:02 <Sionide> XeryusTC, eh? got a pic?
20:16:17 <XeryusTC> Sionide: they're still on the camera
20:16:20 <XeryusTC> after almost a month
20:16:28 * XeryusTC never bothered to ask dad to get them off it :P
20:16:38 <XeryusTC> i need to make a new one though
20:16:41 <XeryusTC> i made the small version
20:16:46 <XeryusTC> which was too small for my big hands :s
20:19:35 <Bjarni> now I can get t-shirts with pictures of myself on them
20:20:02 <Bjarni> now it will be easier to tell if somebody steals them in the gym and later use them X)
20:20:28 <Bjarni> well, that was never a problem for me though
20:20:46 <Bjarni> but it was "fun" to tear my gym bag :(
20:20:58 <XeryusTC> Bjarni: they have a shop in a town that's about 3 km away from here that prints those kind of shirts
20:21:14 <XeryusTC> well, i heard it, i think i might haved walked pass the shop a few times
20:22:22 <skidd13> A webshop has the advantage that the whole community can buy the same stuff there. That's why I posted the link
20:23:01 <Bjarni> or we could make a complete set of OpenTTD cloth from the inside out
20:24:32 <XeryusTC> i thought about making some TT t-shirts for the dutch tt-f meet ;)
20:24:52 <Bjarni> hmm, I wouldn't mind an OpenTTD mug though
20:25:16 <XeryusTC> would be funny if you walk around with the OTTD startup screen on your chest :D
20:25:30 <XeryusTC> maybe you get people recognising it
20:26:33 <Bjarni> I have seen people playing it at uni and talking about it elsewhere
20:27:04 <Bjarni> maybe it wouldn't be so great to wear it in public and people show up from everywhere with verbal bug reports and such
20:27:18 <Bjarni> or asking for tips on how to get started
20:27:27 <XeryusTC> would be funny when you see people play a game you're dev of, and you tell them :D
20:27:38 <Bjarni> that would almost be like wearing a railroad uniform at a station
20:28:00 <XeryusTC> you might just be a fan though ;)
20:28:00 <Bjarni> people ask the weirdest questions if you wear a uniform
20:28:35 <XeryusTC> i dont think people start randomly asking linux questions when you wear a "may the force be with you" shirt with tux' head on it
20:29:46 <Bjarni> I was once asked "what should the train to X say?".... not "which track will it depart from?" or "when will it depart?", but what should the text say
20:29:57 <skidd13> XeryusTC: Once I carryed a mainboard with me. And a guy asked me what gfx card I can suggest to him.
20:30:14 <Bjarni> surprisingly it would say X, which would be the end of the line and the station that person wanted to go to
20:30:51 <XeryusTC> you wear an uniform when you're at the railroad station? :o
20:31:13 <Bjarni> I replied with what it should say, which track it should depart from and that the train in question is the two red dots in the distance
20:31:58 <Bjarni> <XeryusTC> you wear an uniform when you're at the railroad station? :o <--- yeah... would look a bit silly if I climb into the engine with my every day cloth on ;)
20:32:25 <Bjarni> well, either I have a uniform on, or those orange outfits... the uniform is more pretty
20:32:40 <Bjarni> but less visible in the dark or on a foggy day
20:33:01 <XeryusTC> engineers here wear one of those yellow high visibilty jackets
20:33:11 <XeryusTC> or some uniform i think
20:34:14 <Bjarni> 100 years ago, it was mandatory to wear the black uniform at all times. Imagine walking around on the tracks in black cloth during the night
20:34:37 <Bjarni> moving trains had no chance to see them in time >_<
20:34:56 <Sionide> can't you wear uniform and hi-vis jacket?
20:35:25 <XeryusTC> Bjarni: moving trains usually dont have enough time to stop
20:35:28 <Sionide> Bjarni, you drive trains for a living?
20:35:33 <XeryusTC> although, stations do have speed limits
20:35:41 <nairan> that would lok stupid. neon orange vest and uniform.
20:35:58 <Bjarni> nairan: look at the picture
20:36:25 <Bjarni> <Sionide> Bjarni, you drive trains for a living? <-- no, it's a hobby :D
20:36:43 <nairan> those are workers. at least the one in front (lightblue pants)
20:36:45 <XeryusTC> our (as in, the dutch) engineers have a high vis jacket thats more like a normal jacket
20:37:30 <nairan> same here techs and railworkers wear those orange vest and pants with stripes at legs,
20:37:45 <nairan> and sill it happens that ppls die.
20:38:25 <skidd13> Haven't been a svg file of the openttd-logo in the media folder of the source?
20:38:31 <Bjarni> nairan: actually everybody in orange on that picture are engine crew. I never figured out why this guy didn't wear his uniform though
20:39:03 <Bjarni> <nairan> and sill it happens that ppls die. <-- #1 stay off the track when you have nothing to do there
20:40:03 <nairan> well im not at rail company bt daily i have a quite long way to travel by rail.
20:40:12 <Bjarni> I remember when this picture was taken. We borrowed those 4 engines. It was great fun :)
20:41:23 <Bjarni> 50 year anniversary for that design
20:41:57 <Bjarni> 9 out of 9 survived the first 50 years... so don't talk bad about durability and reliability of Danish design :)
20:43:41 <nairan> im in germany we dont talk about the rail. bad image of DB =D
20:44:21 <Bjarni> maybe nobody can figure out what to reply to this one
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20:45:09 <nairan> high costs. lot bureaucracy. hi prices . bad service.
20:45:20 <skidd13> Not that bad IMO. It has more or less political reasons.
20:45:47 <Bjarni> the railroad net in Europe has a whole lot of problems due to political reasons
20:46:04 <Bjarni> at least they finally figured out to have a standard gauge
20:46:39 <Bjarni> next will be the signal system and ATC (those two are closely related)
20:46:40 <skidd13> but the french network has a very good rep.
20:47:06 <Bjarni> eventually catenary systems will be standardised as well and trains will be able to move around freely
20:47:47 <Bjarni> it looks like 25 kV 50 Hz will be the new standard, but I have a feeling that Germany is against that decision :p
20:48:43 <Bjarni> avg speed of freight cars in Europe is 16 km/h because they are moved from one yard to another, then they wait 20 hours before they are moved to the next and so on
20:49:23 <Bjarni> but when they are moving, they have to be moved at relatively high speed (like 100 km/h or more), which is damn high for freight compared to the rest of the world
20:50:07 <Bjarni> there are sideeffects of moving freight that fast, like needed engine power, power bill, wear, demand of rolling stock, demanded gearing of engines and so on
20:51:20 <Bjarni> we need to make our train system more efficient or we will drown in lorries and cars (almost too late)
20:52:55 <Bjarni> now it is your time to say something
20:53:05 <Bjarni> I don't want this to be a monologue
20:53:26 <Bjarni> and if you don't say anything, it looks like you know shit :P
20:53:28 <skidd13> I want a spreadhirt! :D
20:53:49 <Bjarni> wtf is a spreadhirt???
20:53:54 <Bjarni> or can't you spell? :p
20:54:08 <Bjarni> and how is that related to what I just said?
20:54:24 <CobraA1> Is it OK to add a new page to the wiki?
20:54:36 <Rubidium> a shirt with logo to spread <thing behind logo>
20:54:39 <skidd13> Bjarni: It stops your monologue
20:54:40 <Bjarni> CobraA1: if it's relevant, then yes
20:54:52 <CobraA1> It's a checklist for patch developers
20:55:22 <nairan> well until all rail stuff is united it will takes a looong time. every company want an advantage.
20:55:32 <Greyscale> I just had two towns next to eachother
20:55:55 <Greyscale> Pontfingly and Pintfingly
20:56:51 <Bjarni> nairan: that's why EU is working on figuring out what should be the standard and not the companies themselves because the companies can't agree on this
20:57:52 <nairan> the thought is great but the influence of industy is greater,
20:58:22 <Bjarni> our signal system is really old (safe, but old and causes delays due to wear), so it needs to be replaced. Whenever EU finishes working out how the standard should be (they will finish in 1-3 years or so), we will go for a complete replacement
20:58:52 <Bjarni> and kill off the WW1 and WW2 era technology in our signal systems (yes, we got pre WW2 stuff still in service)
21:00:50 <nairan> the tech here is quite frail(sp?)
21:01:02 <Bjarni> funny thing is that when I went to a railroad museum, they had a signal post control unit on display, saying that it's really old (it didn't have buttons, but turning knobs and stuff) and I was like "that's just like back home"
21:01:32 <Bjarni> it works great, but it can't be remote controlled, so it has to be locally staffed 24 hours/day
21:01:55 <glx> [22:46:49] <skidd13> but the french network has a very good rep. <-- maybe for TGV
21:02:43 <Bjarni> he might have known that you would reply that :p
21:03:30 <svip> glx uses any change to insult the French.
21:04:07 <Greyscale> hahaha, fucking frogs, etc.
21:04:15 <svip> Greyscale fail at insulting.
21:04:23 <svip> Be more stereotypical, man.
21:04:32 <svip> At least you wrote grey right.
21:05:48 <Greyscale> </oxfordshire lout>
21:05:57 <Greyscale> Actually, I think thats an oxymoron right there
21:06:03 <Greyscale> everyone here is stupid-loaded.
21:08:05 <Greyscale> still, better than being in manchester :T
21:08:35 <Bjarni> hmm, I can't find the picture of that control unit. I think the museum removed it from their homepage :s
21:16:26 <Bjarni> I don't know where the picture is from though
21:16:36 <Bjarni> it says "time and location doesn't matter"
21:17:00 <Progman> CobraA1: "Documentation" as last point, good one ;)
21:18:02 <Bjarni> it's a signal in a tunnel... something people want for OpenTTD
21:18:11 <Bjarni> so I put this picture online
21:18:15 <Rubidium> lets them code it ;)
21:18:25 <svip> You know what would be easier?
21:18:29 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10991 /trunk/src/ (clear_cmd.cpp industry_cmd.cpp main_gui.cpp town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: add documentation, enumification and some code simplifications to the terraforming code. Patch by frosch.
21:18:36 <svip> Allow an underground level.
21:19:04 <Bjarni> that's far into the future
21:19:44 <Bjarni> anyway that picture from before... I think I took it somewhere around late 2001
21:19:53 <Greyscale> The council AI is shit
21:19:54 <Bjarni> svip: now the big question: where is it? :)
21:20:14 <Bjarni> and what rolling stock? :)
21:21:20 <Bjarni> didn't answer the rolling stock part either
21:22:13 <svip> It looks under København!
21:22:55 <mikl> it is - right before Nørreport
21:23:11 <Bjarni> but the rolling stock...
21:23:47 <svip> :| First time for me in an English speaking channel with other Danes.
21:24:17 <Bjarni> do you give up on what the rolling stock is?
21:25:05 <svip> I don't even know what "rolling stock" means.
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21:25:11 <svip> I am thinking of something with stock market.
21:25:31 <Bjarni> it's a fine word for "what type of train?" X)
21:26:14 <mikl> svip: It's not that uncommon - the Danish are very well represented on the net :)
21:26:28 <Bjarni> it sure looks like steam to me
21:26:44 <svip> It looked like a steam train to me.
21:26:48 <svip> What does it taste like?
21:27:10 <Bjarni> you are not supposed to eat it :P
21:27:12 <svip> You can't do it without tasting it.
21:27:22 <svip> Like the Futurama quote.
21:27:23 <mikl> heh, I have steam trains running right past the grounds all the time :)
21:27:41 <mikl> I live right next to Museumsbanen Maribo-Bandholm
21:27:53 <Bjarni> I was there.... yesterday
21:28:01 <svip> "It looks like toxic waste, it smells like toxic waste." "What does it taste like?" *tastes* "Uhm! Strawberries! Ah, but with a distinct aftertaste of toxic waste."
21:28:29 <mikl> Bjarni: Indeed - were you with the Togtosse-group we had for dinner last night?
21:28:30 <Bjarni> it smells like burning coal and steam
21:28:59 <Bjarni> mikl: err.. no. I was there on family business
21:29:26 <Bjarni> did take a picture of Nykøbing FC though
21:29:28 <mikl> ah, well - it would have been a fantastic coincidence :)
21:30:18 <Bjarni> mikl: so you had a visit by a whole lot of railroad freaks?
21:31:05 <svip> Only Danes around, and yet they speak English.
21:31:09 <Bjarni> looks like svip feels left out :P
21:31:32 <mikl> Bjarni: yes or no - I work at a hotel where we had a group of them for dinner - didn't talk to them, though - I'm not a waiter :)
21:33:40 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10992 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp build_vehicle_gui.cpp group.h): -Fix [FS#1132]: huge amount of vehicles in the "ungrouped" group. Patch by frosch.
21:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> I replied with what it should say, which track it should depart from and that the train in question is the two red dots in the distance <-- meaning the train was already gone?
21:44:39 <Bjarni> yet it was still visible
21:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i assume you have rather flat land, so it is visible a pretty long time :)
21:45:44 <Bjarni> not in areas with trees and buildings and a curved track
21:46:10 <Bjarni> so it would be like say 3-400 meters
21:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and how often does the train go? 2h?
21:48:11 <Bjarni> she had to wait for THE SAME TRAINSET to return X)
21:48:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i have seen trains that go once a week :p
21:49:02 <Bjarni> that wouldn't even be allowed here
21:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> although that was an ICE on a station that usually not feature ICE trains
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21:49:32 <Bjarni> there is a min 4 trains/week or the tracks will be declared abandoned
21:50:12 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the tracks are used... just that particular train route lead only through that city once a week
21:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause> and afaik, tracks have to be unused for 5 years before they can be declared abandoned here
21:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> which is sometimes a problem... i remember a report of a brand new bridge being built over tracks to replace a level crossing, where there was no train for over 2 years
21:52:51 <Bjarni> actually I think it's some sort of in between state they enter. You will have to inspect the tracks before you can use them again and you will need to get a written permission to start using them again
21:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> because of some rule that new major roads may not have level crossings
21:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but they could not remove the tracks, because of the 5 year waiting time
21:56:20 <Bjarni> we had the opposite situation here
21:57:01 <Bjarni> a new road was planned and nobody though about the railroad they had to cross
21:57:13 <Bjarni> so the road people decided to just close the rails
21:57:30 <Bjarni> damn that didn't go silent when the railroad people learned that
21:59:21 <mikl> oh, never heard of it...
21:59:47 <Bjarni> the railroad is only used by vintage trains, yet it's not owned by the vintage railroad company, but the local government (who bought it when it went bankrupt so they could reopen it if possible)
21:59:53 <mikl> the mainstream media usually doesn't concern itself with old railroads :/
22:00:20 <Bjarni> I don't know this from the media. I think they completely bypassed this one
22:00:24 <ln-> it would be easiest just to close all railroads.
22:00:39 <mikl> ln-: yeah, bicycles for everyone :D
22:00:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think such a situation coult occur here...
22:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause> there are so many institutions involved when planning even the shortest routes
22:01:16 <Bjarni> the road people had no right to plan like that, yet they did anyway
22:01:20 <NukeBuster> anyone know if BEGIN_TILE_LOOP is also used other than in clear_cmd.cpp?
22:01:20 <ln-> I bet e.g. in Copenhagen or any capital there is a lot of expensive land area right in the center covered by useless rail yards.
22:01:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean they stopped building an autobahn bridge because it would affect a hamster family...
22:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> a rail should not go by unnoticed :p
22:01:59 <NukeBuster> didn't think about that one :)
22:02:03 <Bjarni> ln-: it's not useless in Copenhagen. It's in use
22:02:07 <mikl> ln-: but they are actually scrapping some of it - I suppose they are going to use it for something else
22:02:20 <ln-> Bjarni: could be replaced by buses and trucks. roads already exist.
22:02:41 <mikl> Bjarni: there is a large area between Nørrebro and Bispebjerg that's not in use
22:03:23 <Eddi|zuHause> a lot of old rail territory is from the 19th and early 20th century
22:03:28 <Bjarni> it's used to turn trains and stuff
22:03:49 <Bjarni> but people just use the EMUs and never notice this
22:04:19 <Eddi|zuHause> especially freight traffic reduced since then, so a lot of tracks are unused now
22:07:32 <Bjarni> <mikl> Bjarni: there is a large area between Nørrebro and Bispebjerg that's not in use <--- if you close that one, you will have nowhere to place track maintenance trains when they are on duty on that line. In that case, even simple tasks would close the line. Now they have somewhere to go when a train needs to pass
22:08:26 <Bjarni> they also need a place to turn around and it's the only location on the line where they are able to do so
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22:11:12 <Bjarni> <ln-> Bjarni: could be replaced by buses and trucks. roads already exist. <-- I don't think would be be popular by adding more traffic on the roads in Copenhagen. They can't handle the extra load the missing trains would create
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22:18:08 <Bjarni> did everybody go to bed?
22:19:38 <Eddi|zuHause> bad... i can't name my files "Die nackte Kanone 2 1/2" and "Die nackte Kanone 33 1/3"...
22:20:41 <Bjarni> 56°34'10.89"N, 9°51'14.62"E <-- this is the location of the road/rail incident. I think they ended up with a good solution
22:21:36 <Bjarni> notice that the road is not higher than planned. They just built a "pipe" on top of the tracks before they added dirt
22:21:54 <Smoovious> saddens me whenever I see an unused line being razed and built over it... obtaining land inside the city for a future lilne is so hard to come by
22:23:15 <Smoovious> we recently consolodated the commuter bus and inter-city bus stations i nto the same place... right on a piece of property that used to be u sed by one of the rail companies... and moving the amtrak station to the same location would have been perfect...
22:23:50 <Smoovious> but a year before they did that, the rail company, solld off its abandoned line, and there was a corner of a building blocking the right-of-way...
22:23:58 <Bjarni> I know of a location where some people wants to rebuild a railroad and use it for steam trains. So far nothing happened because of a bike trail
22:25:49 <Bjarni> we have a law about buildings like that.... the government can declare that it will have to go to give room for something that is needed by the country (like a railroad)
22:26:13 <Smoovious> but the company who owned t he line, sold it to them
22:26:17 <Bjarni> the owner will then be compensated, but it's not a showstopper
22:27:23 <Smoovious> I have t he same problem... I keep allmost everything, even if I don't have a current use for it... and too often, right after I get rid of it, I find a use for it
22:27:54 <Smoovious> it was the only line we had left touching downtown
22:29:31 <Smoovious> could have e expanded our passenger rail service with thhat line... as it is now, not much we can do, with the current station sitting right on a major through-line... single-tracked in that section too
22:29:53 <Smoovious> so we only have 1 service which leaves at 6:30a, and returns after 11p
22:30:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i never heard much good about passenger rail in the USA
22:30:43 <Bjarni> here there are some politicians, who wants to spent a fortune (tax money) in order to turn a closed shipyard into some cultural... something. One of the politicians noticed the railroad in front of it and declared in public that he wanted it closed because it spoiled his dream of this cultural place
22:31:28 <Smoovious> there was this large station c omplex t hat was built next to the freeway at the northern end of the Norfolk Southhern yard here in town... they even brought i n ana old steamer and caboose, restoreed, for display...
22:31:28 <Smoovious> it looked real promising as it wa g oing up
22:31:41 <Bjarni> I think sanity went down the drain. The line is in use and have 20 minute intervals
22:32:22 <Smoovious> but it isn't serviced b y a single train... there are 2 tracks behind it so the yard can still get in and out... but the complex, whihch looks like a train station... is being used as a trucking terminal
22:33:32 <Smoovious> <Eddi|zuHause> i never heard much good about passenger rail in the USA <--- passenger rail here doesn't have the lobbyists that air and trucking have... they gov't put together Amtrak, and year after year, choke the life out of it... if they properlly supported it, we would have had a good widespread service now
22:34:04 <Smoovious> as it stands tho... Amtrak service is spotty at best... and all you reallly have are t he deplorable travellilng condition at the airports
22:35:03 <Smoovious> <Bjarni> I think sanity went down the drain. The line is in use and have 20 minute intervals <--- maybe the rail company should establish a new lilne... one that goes through t he politico's house, and take it via eminent domain, so he can h ave his cultural pllace
22:35:10 <Bjarni> I read about the teamster union vs Maersk case.... looked to me like the teamsters wanted to completely control the transport marked and used modern mafia methods :s
22:36:05 <Smoovious> the teamsters were always more involved in their own interests than their memberrship... mafia-like is aabout right... very accurate...
22:36:14 <Bjarni> they went like "if you want to transport anything here, you can only do that with our people, so you will have to pay us to be allowed to transport goods"
22:37:00 <Bjarni> however Maersk didn't just apply to their demands. I don't know what the end result is though
22:37:26 <Bjarni> but if the teamsters wants to play it tough, then Maersk can play it tough too
22:37:38 <Bjarni> it's the worlds biggest container shipping company
22:38:11 <Smoovious> unions have their place, and lots of unions are doing a good job for their membershihp... but groups like the teamsters... do more to hurt the economy and the companies they deal with, than anything else, IMHO
22:38:29 <Bjarni> and it's surprisingly not a company, that moves cash around to avoid taxes or tread their staff so they have union issues
22:39:05 <Smoovious> I don't join a union unless I have no other choice... I've always been able to do better negotiating my own contract than any union ever did for me
22:39:34 <Smoovious> the unnion reallly only helps those people who aren't worth what they're being paid
22:40:31 <Smoovious> its funny how all my highest-paying jobs were non-union, and the lowest-ppaying jobs, were union... the non-union companies have a lot more flexibility
22:40:47 <Bjarni> sometimes companies start to treat people like dirt and then the union helps getting the unpaid salary and stuff
22:41:27 <Smoovious> bah... the company would have died eventuallly anyways
22:41:59 <Smoovious> there's more keeping their membership in line than there is fighting for their membership going on
22:42:55 <Bjarni> unions kills flexibility. Here they have declared that train drivers shouldn't work overtime, so if a train is late (and it's the end of the drivers shift), it can end up with him not being allowed to finish even if he wants to. The union can tell him to stop where he is and wait for another driver to turn up and finish the run
22:43:26 <Bjarni> so it could take ages for him to go the last say 15 km so he can get home. That was not a problem until the union butted in :s
22:43:33 <Smoovious> yeah, that too... they get in my way more than help
22:44:28 <Smoovious> there have been several times where raises came around, and i got told they tried to bump me up to more pay cuz of the work I did for them, but the union contract wouldn't allow it
22:45:19 <Bjarni> well, they should have said something in Canada... the railroad allowed 2 hours for sleep for a train crew. Afterwards they jumped on a moving train they should take over (took too long to stop) and fell asleep, ran a red light and made a headon collision
22:45:23 <Smoovious> and then there was a max ceiling I could be paid for the work... ... ... what kind of union is going to get in t he way of a company wanting to pay me more money?!!!
22:45:33 <Bjarni> it appears like all 5 people on board fell asleep
22:45:58 <Bjarni> because the railroad refused to let them sleep
22:46:52 <Smoovious> well, things like that are handled by the federal DOT rules for # of hours you can drive... and if you violate t hem, first offense is a suspension... 2nd, a year suspension... and you couldl havve your licene to drive, revoked
22:47:25 <Bjarni> Smoovious: it's a communistic way of thinking. Everybody should be treated equally and they will perform equally and everybody will be equally happy
22:48:19 <Bjarni> Smoovious: err... the railroad said that the crew should work or get fired for refusing work, so the crew had no choice. The railroad company ended up getting some of the blame as well
22:49:04 <Smoovious> like, for trucking... I can only drive withhin the first 14 hours since I came on duty, unless I put in 8 hours in the sleeper... after the 14 hours, I need 10 qualified hours of rest to reset t h e clock... then the 11/10 rule... for every 11 hours of driving, I have to have 10 hours off-duty... and then no driving if I put in nmore than 70 on-duty hours within 8 days
22:50:27 <Smoovious> the 14-hour rule counts on-duty and driving time together, as well as the 70/8 rule... the 11/10-hour rule, only counts driving time
22:50:43 <Bjarni> yeah, the railroad has rules like that as well, but if you get the message to violate them or get fired, then you have an issue
22:51:01 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: not really; you always have your own responsibility
22:51:14 <Smoovious> if we get told to continue driving, we have whistleblower protection, and thhe company will get fineed o r charged
22:51:16 <Bjarni> yeah, but it's still an issue
22:51:32 <Bjarni> but you will still lose your job
22:51:51 <Smoovious> if we do, we have a cause o f action against the company
22:52:08 <Smoovious> and thhe DOT will go after them on our behalf
22:52:09 <Bjarni> and you trust the company not to find some other reason to get rid of you ASAP?
22:52:17 <Smoovious> the DOT represents the drivers... not the companies
22:52:17 <TrueBrain> if you get fired because you refused to work because you aren't allowed by law, the company will suffer terrible :p
22:52:32 <TrueBrain> even if they put up an other excuse, doesn't matter
22:52:41 <Sacro> uʍop ǝpısdn ƃuıʇıɹʍ sɐ unɟ sɐ ʎlɹɐǝu ʇou s,ʇɐɥʇ
22:52:50 <TrueBrain> Sacro: nice gibberish, tnx :)
22:52:50 <Bjarni> you will be sure to go next time the company downsizes or something like that
22:52:52 <Smoovious> the DOT takes road safety very seriously here
22:52:58 <Sacro> TrueBrain: rotate your head
22:53:12 <TrueBrain> Sacro: still all I can see are squares
22:53:26 <svip> Åh yeah, Bjarni. Fantastisk Toyota by TV-2.
22:53:47 <svip> :O You know not that song?
22:54:10 <Sacro> TrueBrain: ahh, no utf-8 support
22:54:12 <Smoovious> besides... if I loe my job, I won't b e unemployed longer than a week... there is huge demand for drivers, and tons of companies wanting to hire...
22:54:16 * Bjarni just turned on the TV to see what it was about a Toyota
22:54:17 <TrueBrain> Sacro: I do, you don't
22:55:02 <svip> Sacro uses a script I assume.
22:55:04 <Smoovious> helll, I got a drug posession aarrest on my record in 2002, and I got 3 companies fighting for me to go with them. :D
22:56:06 <Bjarni> Smoovious: I would have 2nd thoughts about hiring you with that record :s
22:56:30 <svip> openttd: /home/svip/openttd-dev/trunk/src/spritecache.cpp:471: const void* GetRawSprite(SpriteID, bool): Assertion `sprite < _spritecache_items' failed.
22:56:35 <Smoovious> nah... I have nothinig against me on my driving record, except a couplle speeding ticket when I drove taxi
22:56:50 <Smoovious> now, if I had a felony, thatt'd be a different story
22:57:23 <TrueBrain> Smoovious: of course, they hope you can get them some too ;) (joking)
22:57:50 <Smoovious> <Bjarni> Smoovious: I would have 2nd thoughts about hiring you with that record :s <--- actually, one of the 3 companies does hazmat... and if I was one of their poeople, looking at my record, I wouldn't hire me either... I doubt I'll go with them... don't wanna do hazmat... but its nice they think I'm worth giving a chance to
22:58:06 <Smoovious> we go through regular random testing, so it won't be a big isssue
22:58:07 <Bjarni> actually speeding is a serious offence. It kills a lot of people every year
22:58:38 <Smoovious> and crossing the street
22:58:53 <TrueBrain> let's say no to all of that!
22:59:06 <Smoovious> sppeeding is only serious relative to the actual speeed involved
22:59:13 <Smoovious> and the road configuration
22:59:20 <glx> svip: as I already said I need a diff to try it in gdb
22:59:24 <Bjarni> if we all stop breathing right now, none of us will die next year and it's for sure
22:59:59 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: not true; you will always see that when we do that, some moron has a spontanious mutation and survives
23:00:10 <Smoovious> why, just being alive, has a 100% mortality rate... doesn't get more dangerous than that
23:01:07 <TrueBrain> I wish you all a very nice night
23:01:14 <TrueBrain> and hope to see you all tomorrow, alive and well
23:01:28 <Bjarni> it's like this smoking campaign... if 3 people start smoking, one of them will die.... so the other two will live forever?
23:01:37 <svip> I hope it's the right one.
23:02:50 <Smoovious> people t hink nothing of standing on the street corner waiting to cross the street, breathing in the exhaust of 5 lanes of intersecting traffic... yet, one whiff of a cigarette, and they're freaking out... get some perspective, people
23:03:22 * Smoovious goes outside for a smoke.
23:03:29 <Bjarni> I will not stand on the street corner either
23:03:53 <svip> glx: Go to the options menu and pick Zoning.
23:04:01 <svip> Then just select something in the top drop down.
23:07:56 <svip> Taking long to compile or you are not saying any crash?
23:08:12 <glx> d:/developpement/ottd/trunk3/src/zoning.h:19: warning: '_zoning' defined but not used
23:08:49 <svip> Then you did get an old diff.
23:18:09 <glx> ok I need to recompile again (was a release build)
23:18:31 <svip> Did you forget to patch. O_O
23:19:03 <glx> it crashed but I can't debug a release build
23:26:35 <svip> So what needs fixing, oh great glx?
23:27:02 <glx> seems to be an incorrect palette
23:27:31 <Sacro> why don't you alter trams so they don't enter a tile unless they have a valid exit?
23:27:58 <glx> going up in the stack I'm in DrawSprite() and pal=4294967295
23:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: that would only move the problem one tile back, or not?
23:28:41 <svip> I didn't change that much of the code.
23:28:51 <svip> And not a lot involving the sprites.
23:29:03 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: nope, shouldn't do
23:29:28 <Sacro> unless you route into a 1 tile wide dead end
23:30:56 <svip> Could it be INVALID_SPRITE_ID, glx?
23:31:16 <svip> But no PAL has that high a value, glx.
23:31:34 <Eddi|zuHause> if you send a tram backwards (from stopped state only?) it should just jump to the other track (if free)
23:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> pal=4294967295 <- this looks like invalid_id
23:33:12 <svip> But why would it stop in this case?
23:33:18 <svip> I mean, it didn't before when I used it.
23:33:34 <glx> it tries to get this palette :)
23:33:38 <svip> I removed an if statement!
23:33:43 <svip> That checks if it is not INVALID!
23:35:06 <svip> :D And now it doesn't crash!
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23:36:17 <glx> but windows doesn't let me copy from the gdb console :(
23:40:32 <svip> It appears when doing dropdowns.
23:40:44 <svip> You have to DrawString() to draw some message on the dropdown first.
23:40:50 <svip> But what do I do if I want it to update?
23:41:04 <svip> Or do I need to remove it and draw a new one?
23:41:09 <svip> Cause right now I am trying drawing a new one.
23:41:14 <svip> And that doesn't help at all.
23:42:41 <glx> look how it's done for other dropdowns
23:43:12 <svip> But I don't see any update.
23:44:23 <svip> Like how it is done for the map size in the generator world window.
23:44:23 <svip> case GLAND_MAPSIZE_X_PULLDOWN: _patches_newgame.map_x = e->we.dropdown.index + 6; break;
23:44:32 <svip> Where does it update the text?
23:44:54 <svip> And I can plainly see it has drawn the string here.
23:44:55 <svip> DrawString(119, 91 + y, mapsizes[_patches_newgame.map_x - 6], 0x10);
23:46:14 <svip> It some how draws them outside of the window now.
23:46:31 <glx> remove {BLACK} in STR_ZONING_NO_ZONING
23:49:04 <svip> :( Now I have to recompile all.
23:49:20 <glx> yes but it is the right way
23:49:30 <glx> no color command in dropdown texts
23:49:48 <glx> dropdown code does it by itself
23:51:10 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r10993 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: A few less magical numbers (skidd13)
23:51:46 <svip> What did you change, Belugas? :O
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