IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-07-26
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07:51:18 <simon444> In Soviet Russia, This Channel Is Alive
07:53:55 <simon444> IRL, This Channel Is Dead
07:58:25 <simon444> So, I am canceling my subscription to IRC.
08:02:00 <guru3> Been a while since I heard a soviet russia joke.
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08:30:21 <simon444> guru3, where were you 20 hours ago?
08:30:32 <simon444> they were going like crazy
08:30:51 <simon444> <Timwi> In Soviet Russia, no spoon is THERE. :)
08:30:57 <simon444> <Timwi> But in Soviet Russian, forever go on JOKES!
08:31:50 <guru3> i must admit, this isn't the place where i usually here soviet russia jokes
08:32:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> and i must admit it is not funny after the 58th time...
08:33:30 <simon444> In Soviet Russia, Jokes are Always Funny.
08:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> i rest my case...
08:34:52 <simon444> In Soviet Russia, Cases Rest YOU!
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08:35:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, and it is not friday :p
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09:11:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10693 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix: --enable-install should have been removed from the configure parameters to save a long time ago. Now it is only causing warnings.
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09:18:24 <Rubidium> skidd13: was just reading the video driver source code and found out that we already have a variable with "real time" ticks: _realtime_tick
09:19:53 <skidd13> I must have read over it. Where is it defined?
09:20:43 <Rubidium> one of our lovely "oh I dump my crap here" files: variable.h
09:22:07 <skidd13> Hmm so I step back to the previous version and modify this one
09:22:51 <Rubidium> yes, but what do you mean with modifying that one?
09:23:39 <skidd13> I've a local VCS and step back to the previous rev and replace the hardcoded stuff with the _realtime_tick
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09:26:20 <Rubidium> jup, a local VCS is very useful when developing
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09:32:12 <skidd13> Rubidium: What about the icons? Is the processor icon OK?
09:33:28 <Rubidium> I've not looked at the thing itself yet, only at the diff
09:34:06 <skidd13> Ah someone should check it, if they are ok.
09:54:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10694 /trunk/src/network/ (network_gamelist.cpp network_udp.cpp): -Codechange: update the server information in the game list every once in a while so the information stays fairly up-to-date when you are looking through the servers.
09:57:32 <skidd13> Rubidium: I hope it's fine now.
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11:19:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10695 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1079]: building single pieces of road over tramtrack or vice versa on slopes did not work as expected.
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13:18:49 <simon444> yay! the coca-cola truck is outside my home
13:19:33 <TheMask96> better then inside, I agree :)
13:22:21 <simon444> 80 bottles or 4 boxes are now in my lounge
13:25:03 <Rubidium> so, that's for one day?
13:31:39 <Smoovious> hooks up the syrup as an IV drip to his arm
13:44:15 <skidd13> The var RoadBits are 4 bit?
13:46:40 <Rubidium> a variable of type RoadBits has an undefined size (usually 32 or 64 bits though)
13:46:52 <Rubidium> but only the lowest 4 bits are used
13:47:42 <skidd13> If I shift the first bit the Road should cycle round
13:51:58 <Rubidium> skidd13: only if the first bit is the only set bit
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13:58:23 <UnderBuilder> good news: trams returned to my country's capital, Buenos Aires (yes off-topic, I know)
13:58:55 <peter1138> better news: 2½ hours left to go
13:59:32 <peter1138> well it's not my fault you're in the wrong timezone
13:59:50 <Smoovious> and it isn't off-topic for here :D
14:04:43 <skidd13> Even better news: Still 2 weeks holiday :)
14:05:18 <Belugas> mine start tomorrow evening
14:06:13 <UnderBuilder> the new trams are built at the side of the roads instead of going through them, is that a tendency in modern cities or the in-roads trams are still common there?
14:07:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10696 /trunk/src/ (15 files): -Codechange: remove duplication of the "make sprite transparent" code.
14:07:43 <peter1138> i think they prefer them off road as it means congestion doesn't affect the trams to much
14:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> here they rebuilt a lot of roads that had trams on them to trams in the middle and car lanes next to them
14:09:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> usually reducing the car lanes per direction from 2 to 1
14:11:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> when most trams were built (high time was around 1920), car traffic was not an issue
14:12:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> now it is, so they adapted the style
14:13:28 <simon444> I have a friend who has moved to Israel for new transport methods
14:13:32 <skidd13> RoadBits r = 0100; (GB(r, 2, 2) >> 2) == 0001 ?
14:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> skidd13: no, GB(r,2,2) is already 01, so >> 2 will erase those bits
14:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> GB is not only an & mask, it also shifts
14:16:16 <skidd13> (GB(r, 2, 2) == 0001 ?
14:16:31 <simon444> I have seen his computerized electro private vehicle and I must say I am impressed
14:16:57 <simon444> the vehicle is very cheap
14:17:16 <simon444> the cost of the special roads are only 70% more than current costs
14:17:47 <simon444> I think we might see this type of transport being adopted by developing countries
14:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> "only 70%"... what propaganda sheet is that from?
14:18:36 <simon444> Eddi|zuHause3, that is not including power
14:18:46 <skidd13> Hmm strange ((RoadBits)GB(r, 2, 2) | (RoadBits)(GB(r, 0, 2) << 2)) should mirror the road bits but it does not.
14:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> skidd13: the copy-paste patch had some stuff about mirroring in, maybe look there
14:20:06 <simon444> Eddi|zuHause3, his research is not public. It is being carried out by a research facility in Israel.
14:20:08 <Smoovious> "only 70% more" here would spark riots in the open community meetings with the planners
14:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> exactly, Smoovious ;)
14:21:23 <Smoovious> like... that's only almost twice as much... doesn't sound like a lot at all, put it that way
14:21:26 <simon444> Smoovious, the cost of cars being a lot less (few hundred dollar). Less power required. Faster transport. Allowing Kids to drive. And much more is good tradeoff
14:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> and especially in developing countries, where often road infrastructure means a dirty path through the jungle, how can you expect them to pay twice for a special road when they do not even have money for normal roads?
14:22:01 <Smoovious> allowing kids to drive... that would doom it to failure right there here
14:22:27 <simon444> Overall for developing counties it is a lot cheaper than the current system
14:22:42 <simon444> Smoovious, the computerized roads are doing the driving
14:22:57 <simon444> I forgot to mention: No need for public transport
14:23:03 <hylje> public transport without the public
14:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> the current system being importing 20 year old cars from "developed" countries for 50€?
14:23:29 <Smoovious> simon444... doesn't matter whos doing the driving... kids gotta earn their freedoms
14:23:47 <simon444> Over here in Australia 3/4 of road tax revenue is going for public transport
14:24:15 <simon444> Smoovious, the system can be used by parents to automaticly take their kids to school
14:24:23 <simon444> Smoovious, it can be locked down very well
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14:25:22 <Smoovious> just o ne m ore t hing that parents don't have t o acknowledge responsibility for.... pretty soon, they won't have to raise their kids at all, they'll just have a device d o i t
14:25:28 <Smoovious> it isn't a positive thing
14:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> you should learn control over your space key :)
14:26:08 <Smoovious> technology is all fine and dandy, bu t not when it relieves people of t heir responsibilities
14:26:22 <simon444> Smoovious, in the old day in Europe kids from a young age would leave home and go to bigger cities by themselves for education if they could afford it
14:26:38 <Smoovious> I'm still o n t hhe backup keybouncing stuck-kkey keyboard... it is actually worse than you see... you should see what I'm correcting
14:26:58 <Smoovious> simon444... in the old days we could eat our young
14:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd rather not see :)
14:27:14 <Smoovious> doesn't mean its better
14:27:58 <simon444> Smoovious, the cost of driving your kids to school and missing out on work during that time in developing countries is a lot more than the cost of the special roads required (I'd assume. I don't have any maths to back me up as I am not doing the research.)
14:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> but everything you tell here has nothing to do with "developing" countries... they have totally different problems than investing millions in computerised roads
14:28:26 <Smoovious> we all make sacrifices for our families...
14:28:43 <Smoovious> if a parent has to spend an hour l ess at work and an hour m ore with the kids, that is a good thing
14:28:56 <eekee> developing countries like to invest millions in hare-brained schemes. Is why they're still developing, methinks
14:29:21 <Smoovious> eekee... well, that, and t hey keep destroying everything they develop
14:29:26 <simon444> Eddi|zuHause3, well maybe no Africa but other developing countries like Israel itself would be very happy with such technology
14:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think israel classifies as a "developing" country in the classical sense of the word...
14:30:12 <Smoovious> Israel have o ther priorities... like, stopping the bombing so they can keep their phone and data lines u p and nnot h ave to rebuild their h ouses so much
14:30:29 <simon444> Smoovious, they aren't spending an hour extra with the kids. They are spending an hour extra on unsafe roads with crazy traffic that gives them a higher chance of getting killed.
14:30:58 <glx> traffic is not the dangerous part I think
14:30:59 <Smoovious> Evolution in action
14:31:25 <simon444> glx, I didn't use grammar correctly.
14:31:44 <simon444> glx, I meant both points together gives them a danger
14:32:13 <eekee> I do have to wonder how expensive it would actually be. I mean, they had autopilot & stuff in the 2nd world war I think, maybe it needn't be expensive at all
14:32:19 <Smoovious> we take away all danger, and t he g ene pool suffers
14:32:29 <simon444> a road collapse has higher of happening with more traffic
14:33:36 <eekee> we take away all danger & the gene pool has a change to produce something really interesting, IMHO. Look at dogs & cats, sheltered lives & look at the variety in them!
14:33:36 <simon444> eekee, well the main benefit is the cost of the vehicle is very little
14:35:24 <simon444> I would love such a system for Australia
14:36:56 <simon444> Overall the cost would be less for a country like Australia who 3/4 of road tax revenue goes to public transport. The complete cost would be reduced to 1/4+70%
14:37:02 <simon444> and a way better system
14:41:36 <eekee> What I would be afraid of with such a system is the liklyhood of it spreading to all forms of driving until you couldn't drive your own car. At 25 years old, the only real form of freedom I'd ever known was driving, alone, for pleasure. I had no opportunity for choices or was too inhibited to make them in all other areas of my life D:
14:42:51 <simon444> eekee, well if all roads become these special roads you don't have to worry unless you take your on road car off road
14:55:53 <UnderBuilder> I have a nice mockup to do: a mix of Lemmings and (O)TTD(P)
14:56:33 <UnderBuilder> this is the idea: you need to protect the trucks from the evil rail crossings
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15:14:35 <JazzyJaffa> Is there anywhere a quick overview of whats network safe code and whats not? I know the obvious stuff like no floating point, but wanted to be clear on any other caveats.
15:18:16 <JazzyJaffa> If I do divison of two integers thats fine without needing to cast right?
15:19:24 <JazzyJaffa> I'm only checking as I'm getting the occasional desync with the new ship pf
15:21:35 <Rubidium> the caches are out of sync I guess
15:22:32 <Rubidium> you must construct the caches in such a way that destroying the cache and rebuilding it gives exactly the same cache as when you wouldn't have had destroyed and rebuilt it.
15:22:53 <JazzyJaffa> Yes, I've kept that in mind while coding it
15:23:24 <Rubidium> well, most likely it is not the case
15:23:24 <JazzyJaffa> The routes aren't cached yet, but the same rule applies to building the regions
15:23:41 <JazzyJaffa> ah ha, just understood it
15:24:15 <JazzyJaffa> I was making an untrue assumption about the saving of station data
15:25:08 <JazzyJaffa> Thanks, funny how just explaining something to someone else shows flaws you don't think of on your own!
15:26:23 <eekee> yeah, I've heard that the best way to really learn somehting is to teach it
15:26:59 <JazzyJaffa> A guy who was teaching a course I went on told us to explain our code to a pot plant.
15:27:50 <Belugas> i tried that with my wife. She felt asleep
15:29:21 <glx> Belugas: lucky for you she's not here right now ;)
15:29:29 <UnderBuilder> other obstacles for TTLems: UFOs
15:29:59 <Belugas> i very much doubt she will ever come in here :D
15:30:24 <JazzyJaffa> Mine tries to be interested, then you see her go blank.
15:31:53 <UnderBuilder> damn I tried to convert a selection to grayscale in paint and it converted all the draw instead
15:32:13 <Belugas> otoh, she learned html by herself a few months ago and started to do some pages. She had a few problems, asked me how i would fix those. She started to argue. I stopped helping her.
15:32:21 <UnderBuilder> worst is that I can't undo
15:33:44 <JazzyJaffa> I've learned the hard way that helping people with websites always ends in disaster
15:34:27 <Belugas> yup. so once more, deving is a solitary job
15:34:34 <Belugas> no matter on waht you work
15:35:51 <JazzyJaffa> desync solved I think (none so far any way)
15:37:27 <Rubidium> desyncs are very annoying to test for :(
15:37:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10697 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Codechange: give a more sensible names to some of the unkX variables.
15:37:58 <JazzyJaffa> I can imagine, I knew this one was my fault as it was when the regions updated on terraform
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15:38:45 <JazzyJaffa> Is the svn head desync free? In other words can I assume they are my fault if they occur?
15:39:13 <Rubidium> I haven't heard of desyncs the last few hundred revisions
15:40:36 <JazzyJaffa> is the best way just to chuck out lots of debug and diff it?
15:42:14 <JazzyJaffa> well the best way is to code thinking "is this derived from saved information"
15:42:15 <Rubidium> but for example (most) YAPF desyncs were found and fixed by running a cached YAPF and a uncached YAPF for each YAPF call and then diffing the output
15:42:46 <JazzyJaffa> i see, a local solution
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15:44:07 <JazzyJaffa> well thanks for the pointers, back to testing
15:49:05 <UnderBuilder> "If you can't win against the enemy, join him" - the best way to compete against sabotagers in OTTD?
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15:52:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> *mental note* do not get involved with physical work at these temperatures
15:52:40 <Rubidium> but... it's only 20 degrees Celcius (if not less)
15:53:03 <JazzyJaffa> We're flooded, keeps your feet cool
15:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's definitely above 20°C her
15:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> processor says 54°C, but that hardly counts :p
15:56:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> thermometer says 26.7°C, and 40% humidity
15:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, mine is busy :)
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15:57:12 <glx> it was 50°C when compiling latest commit :)
15:58:44 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Well the strange thing is that Portugal is a turistic country with lots of beaches and summer activities, theres a lot of people who live here and work just for tourists.. But now when there should be 30-40 ºC.. Theres 20-30 and lot's of wind and clouds.. This summer is ruined... :(
15:58:51 <glx> cpu fan speed returns under 3000 rpm easily so it's not too hot
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15:59:56 <Digitalfox_Desktop> On the other hand Uk is swimming and east europe is burning :(
15:59:57 <Rubidium> my CPU is 55 degrees during compiles, but what do you want when it is passively cooled
16:00:23 <Digitalfox_Desktop> The weather is all fu*k up.. :(
16:01:02 <Belugas> summer in Quebec is absolutely marvelous. Sorry to hear it is not the case in Europ
16:01:28 <Belugas> and my system is too hold to have a cpu thermometer
16:01:35 <glx> you didn't see the news about GB weather ?
16:01:35 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Well the problem with CPU heating is the duration of it's life.. More heat means less life time..
16:01:40 <Wezz6400> nobody making the stupid global warming comment? good
16:02:07 <Wezz6400> Digitalfox_Desktop yes, however 55 degrees is not that high that it's a serious concern
16:02:18 <Wezz6400> besides, those thermometers are very unreliable
16:02:32 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Wezz6400: Well some weeks ago i would.. But now i saw a documentary talking about weather changes and that the heating has other condicionals not just the global warming..
16:02:57 <Wezz6400> The global warming swindle?
16:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> i once had a cpu that ran on 70°C when idle...
16:04:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> but it was probably undercooled
16:04:44 <Wezz6400> some of the last p4 processors were just getting rediculously hot
16:05:16 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Well a friend of mine brought to me yesterday his laptop.. CPU at 75ºC idle... Jesus all the platic was burning my fingers..:\
16:05:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> it was an AMD 1400, i believe
16:06:19 <glx> Digitalfox_Desktop: maybe remove the dust that is inside it
16:06:37 <Wezz6400> ah yes the thunderbirds and especially the palominos got quite hot
16:06:38 <Rubidium> Digitalfox_Desktop: a laptop with a CPU that is 75 degrees when idle is not what I call a laptop
16:07:08 <Sacro> mine warms my testicles nicely
16:07:08 <Digitalfox_Desktop> A lot of dust and the *hum what do you call it in english, the thing that you put between cpu and cooling system* was erased..
16:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i would keep my hands off such a laptop (and especially my lap)
16:07:25 <Sacro> Digitalfox_Desktop: heatsink compound
16:07:28 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Wezz6400: that's it
16:07:48 <Wezz6400> that shouldn't be disappearing o.O
16:08:36 <Digitalfox_Desktop> So i removed the dust and put thermal paste and the temperature got to 50 ºC iddle and 60 ºC at full work..
16:08:52 <Digitalfox_Desktop> thermal paste does disapera if a lot of hot starts to get in CPU because of dust
16:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> mine runs at about 35°C when idle
16:09:01 <Digitalfox_Desktop> *disappear
16:09:22 <Wezz6400> well on a laptop the fan probable doesn't run as fast on idle as it does on full load
16:09:48 <Digitalfox_Desktop> The problem is that the fans were always working at maximum so the noise was a lot..
16:10:03 <Digitalfox_Desktop> And the heat of course :)
16:10:16 <Digitalfox_Desktop> It was a Centrino 2.0
16:10:22 <Wezz6400> heh yeah laptops are very noisy on full loads
16:11:35 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I found on the net some stuff that you put beneath the laptop and has 2 fans and it helps keeping the laptop more cold :)
16:11:43 <hylje> my lappy tends to get 80+ C when full load for longer times
16:11:51 <Wezz6400> heh I kinda dislike laptops
16:12:08 <Wezz6400> I have one because it's so easy to have your own pc with you, but all I do on it is working
16:12:28 <Wezz6400> also I never use it at home, I always use my superior desktop there
16:12:39 <hylje> laptops are good for what they are, for being portable
16:12:54 <hylje> if a more luggable box is available, it's likely better
16:13:18 <Wezz6400> just like wireless networks, the only upside is that it's wireless
16:14:18 <hylje> the other upside is that it's more available where wires dont reach
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16:14:55 <Rubidium> I do not even own a desktop anymore
16:15:02 <Smoovious> that and most people leave their wireless hubs unsecured, so ya don't have a lot of problems finding a spot to check yer main
16:15:07 <Rubidium> I've got more than enough power in my laptop to do everything I want
16:15:08 <Wezz6400> it's slow, it's unrealiable, if the connection is not optimal you have disconnects all over teh place, etc. etc.
16:15:19 <Rubidium> and more than enough resolution too
16:15:30 <hylje> i'm in the middle of nowhere
16:15:42 <hylje> edge hasnt dropped for me for some hours
16:15:54 <Rubidium> Wezz6400: then you need a better wireless nic
16:16:18 <Wezz6400> Rubidium well I'm comparing it to wired networks
16:16:24 <Rubidium> I can leave my laptop turned on and go home and still have my ssh connection open
16:16:34 <Wezz6400> there you have no disconnects, superior speed, etc. etc.
16:16:37 <Rubidium> which includes a ride in the elevator
16:16:50 <Rubidium> and a few minutes cycling
16:16:51 <hylje> ssh isnt the first stateful connection to drop
16:17:11 <Wezz6400> the timeout ranges for ssh and irc are quite long
16:17:26 <hylje> irc wont resume as reliably
16:17:51 <Rubidium> I just run irc on my server and that has a wired connection, so that won't bother me
16:18:23 <SpComb> having irssi/screen open via ssh tends to cause irssi to freeze up when the ssh connection freezes
16:18:40 <hylje> SpComb: screen can be configured to avoid that
16:18:56 <SpComb> I think one needs to play around with sshd as well
16:19:11 <SpComb> display set to nonblocking mode, 1s timeout
16:19:12 <Rubidium> SpComb: it doesn't freeze for me
16:19:22 <SpComb> yet my irssi gets stuck, regardless
16:19:39 <Wezz6400> Rubidium I see you have quite good experience, and well wifi is usefull at times I agree, however using at it at home to connect stationary desktop machines to the internet is sado-masochism imho
16:20:02 <hylje> stationary machines over wifi is silly
16:20:13 <hylje> wifis point is that you dont need to use wires
16:20:13 <Rubidium> yes, especially when you've got 100 Mbps internet in the wall ;)
16:20:33 <Wezz6400> hylje thing is, loads of people are afraid to drill holes or thing cables look "ugly"
16:20:50 <SpComb> wifi in the datacenter
16:20:51 <hylje> cabls are ugly when you cant manage them
16:21:22 <Wezz6400> SpComb wifi in datacenters is used for people with laptops in there looking up why their server won't boot
16:22:45 <Rubidium> must tell that my wireless nic is exceptionally good
16:23:15 <Wezz6400> I suspect that the network you use is also very good
16:23:17 <Rubidium> know a lot of people that cannot even get a wireless connection when I've got a connection at maximum speed
16:23:35 <Wezz6400> hehe I've had the same experience
16:23:44 <Wezz6400> My classmate already had a laptop when I bought mine
16:23:58 <Wezz6400> He was always having trouble with connecting to the schools wifi network
16:24:08 <Wezz6400> He has an MSI laptop which is over 50% more expensive than mine
16:24:11 <Rubidium> and always complain about the "stability" of the wireless there, but I've never ever had problems with it (except that time they were changing routers)
16:24:23 <Wezz6400> However I had no trouble whatsoever connecting to the network, you should've seen his face :D
16:24:54 <Wezz6400> me with my cheap acer machine getting connection when he couldn't \o/
16:25:34 <Rubidium> another "problem" is that people keep complaining the letters on my laptop are "so small"
16:26:03 *** BobingAbout has joined #openttd
16:26:21 <Wezz6400> high reso on a small screen?
16:26:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> i won't give up my desktop because then i have nowhere to put my dvb-s card in :)
16:26:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> that must be rather expensive
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16:27:20 <Belugas> but i think it was a good investment for him :)
16:27:26 <Rubidium> yup, 1100 euros two years back with Centrino
16:28:25 <Wezz6400> I gotta say though I just dislike laptop screens (the ones on the more expensive laptops are better, but they still are not nearly as good as a proper lcd monitor) and typing on them is annoying cause of the hight
16:29:48 <Rubidium> problem is that I need the laptop for school, well... not actually for school work, but they've got old CRTs which equals in headaches in 5 minutes
16:30:02 <Belugas> i have two LCDs at work, and i by far prefre my CRT at home
16:30:30 <Wezz6400> yeah I bought it for school too
16:30:46 <Wezz6400> it's just a pain in the ass to have to install all the software you need over and over again
16:30:53 <hylje> Wezz6400: my laptop lcd monitor begs to differ
16:31:10 <hylje> Wezz6400: installing software? pain?
16:31:23 <Rubidium> and I didn't see any point in spending yet more money on a desktop system with high resolution screen, low noise etc.
16:31:26 <Wezz6400> when not using a laptop but having to use the schools computers
16:33:09 <Wezz6400> Heh well I already have a custom build heavily overclocked desktop system so the laptop really was just a secondary system to take to school and do office work and programming on
16:35:47 <Wezz6400> oh well dinner time ;)
16:36:37 <simon444> Wezz6400 IS A QUITTER!!!
16:36:41 <Rubidium> just take your laptop to the kitchen while cooking and eating ;)
16:36:49 <simon444> what a looooooooooooooooooooser
16:37:20 <Wolf01> or bring the stuff to your pc ;)
16:38:41 <simon444> or program your computer to make them for you
16:39:49 <SpComb> or order from pizza hut
16:40:12 <Wolf01> ok, let's talk about sex, sacro has been dropped :D
16:40:13 <Rubidium> SpComb: then you still have to take the laptop to the door when you pay the pizza delivery person
16:40:53 *** simon444 is now known as sacro
16:41:48 <Rubidium> @kick sacro always wanted to do so
16:41:48 *** sacro was kicked by DorpsGek (always wanted to do so)
16:41:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> i had a CRT at home until 2 months ago, when it broke... i liked it, it had good resolution, flat screen and high refresh rate
16:42:05 *** sacro is now known as simon444
16:43:11 *** nimblex has joined #openttd
16:43:52 *** nimblex is now known as Ionut
16:44:00 <simon444> sick. they are doing it from behind
16:44:01 <Rubidium> hylje: exactly, he's the person being kicked most ;)
16:44:25 <Belugas> just that CRTs are so huge space invaders :(
16:44:31 <Belugas> the only problem with them
16:45:18 <SpComb> that's why I didn't get a CRT
16:45:32 <Belugas> it was given to me by my boss
16:45:50 <Belugas> one awaits for the first to die
16:46:39 <simon444> has a HUGE resolution
16:46:50 <simon444> and costs a fortune!
16:47:01 <simon444> phryx, howdy stranger
16:48:44 <phryx> stranger and stranger, have i been gone that long?
16:48:54 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Belugas when TFT are a lot cheaper i'll send you one.. ;)
16:50:07 <simon444> phryx, in Sweden yes.
16:51:22 <Belugas> thanks, Digitalfox_Desktop :) but i think i need a larger desk instead :D
16:51:27 <phryx> i remember it only being yesterday i logged in to do some bad translation.
16:51:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10698 /trunk/src/ (23 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange [FS#1082]: simplify the code related to foundations. Primarily removal of (duplicated|magic) code and introduction of few helper functions to ease foundation determination. Patch by frosch.
16:51:42 <phryx> speaking of wich, my webtranslator login died. :'(
16:52:18 <Rubidium> phryx: then you must have been away for more than a year I guess
16:53:11 <phryx> work has been crazy. :P
16:55:02 <phryx> been having some free time lately and got a silly idea to check if there was anything eng-swe needing translation. :)
16:55:25 <Rubidium> your name doesn't show up in my logs, which start begin of april 2006
16:56:34 <Rubidium> phryx: I think you should drop MiHaMiX an email if you want your account back, or rather request a new account as the whole webtranslator has been rewritten and such
16:57:17 <phryx> figured it was something like that. ;)
16:57:26 <Priski> they say that programmes are heviest drinkers in the bussiness... no wonder
16:57:37 <phryx> ill just check with him in here when he wakes to life again. :)
16:58:13 <Priski> after a 8 hours of paintaking debuggin beer tastes like a heaven
16:58:56 <Wolf01> (dark corner, phone camera...)
16:59:35 <Belugas> too small, way too small space
16:59:37 <hylje> Priski: also, worsethanfailure
17:00:25 <Priski> seal is also a programmer? :)
17:01:18 <phryx> damn, so many new faces in here. :S
17:01:32 <Rubidium> Priski: then you must have had a very very paintaking debugging session as beer is disgusting
17:01:42 <hylje> i debugged for several hours some rather elusive bugs
17:01:59 <Priski> i'm just glad that I did not go into c++ too deep, php is so much easier
17:02:51 <Rubidium> I'd recommend you to debug some OTTD desyncs :)
17:03:08 <hylje> ive heard enough horror stories
17:03:29 <hylje> and i dont have two comps available mostly
17:03:39 <Priski> Rubidium, everybody have their tastes, some drink beer, some whiskey, some get relaxed with joint or whatever makes you forget all the BS they had that day...
17:03:51 <Rubidium> hylje: you don't need two computers all the time
17:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's like 1/4th of my desk, and i have two of them :p
17:04:08 <Wolf01> i have 5 pc around... these, my 2, one for my father, one for my sister/mother and the web server
17:04:15 <Rubidium> unless you are debugging endian desyncs
17:05:05 <Priski> hylje, PHP is quite nice if you mostly code good OO-code, otherthan that it is somewhat bad language...
17:05:12 <Rubidium> and debugging endian desyncs when you only have little endian machines is even more fun
17:05:39 <hylje> Priski: webhosts barely support php5. OO is of little importance
17:05:53 <hylje> besides, i find php lacking in OO metaprogramming
17:06:43 <hylje> and in overall anguage features
17:06:59 <Priski> hylje, on my experience many use PHP5 already in their servers, but of course that depends on to whom do you make that code
17:07:39 <Priski> and yes, there are still too much non PHP5 servers still at use
17:08:57 <Priski> hard to turn back now when you have already lots of experience
17:09:36 <Priski> and experience is that thing that is never enough, whatever do you code...
17:10:03 <hylje> my experience with python makes me go "omg no ;_;" when it comes to php
17:10:39 <hylje> i done a smallish project in php, in my own terms, with no maintenance overhead
17:10:50 <hylje> working around php was painful
17:11:03 <Priski> yeah I know that feeling too
17:12:23 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:13:09 <Priski> Man i'm feeling a bit buzz already
17:13:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> "drink faster, it's already getting dark"
17:14:15 <Priski> some beers from the fridge and off we go to see a neighbourgh and his new bottle of whiskey ;)
17:14:46 <Priski> se ya all, dont get too depressed all the devs here :)
17:15:19 <simon444> Priski, PHP was started by an Israeli uni grad. he didn't design it to be used as language for what it is being used today
17:15:42 <simon444> Priski, this is one of those things that people don't like about oss
17:16:20 <simon444> Priski, oss doesn't have any method for a consistent engineering style
17:16:55 <hylje> and what do you exactly mean with "engineering style" ?
17:16:56 <simon444> Priski, everyone has their own style of design and it gets mixed in one big salad bawl
17:17:07 <simon444> hylje, unix had a style
17:17:27 <simon444> this is also a problem for most other operating systems out there...
17:17:36 <simon444> not just a oss problem...
17:17:39 <hylje> all larger projects have a consistent coding style and a roadmap
17:18:06 <simon444> hylje, when people added things like graphics to unix they used a different style
17:18:24 <simon444> hylje, unix no longer stayed as an everything is a file os
17:18:45 <hylje> it used to be much worse than it is now
17:18:56 <simon444> hylje, unix became some things are a file, some things are sockets some things are...
17:19:07 <hylje> freedesktop imposes wel needed standards for X WMs
17:19:12 <simon444> <hylje> all larger projects have a consistent coding style and a roadmap
17:19:31 <simon444> I am talking about engineering not coding.
17:20:18 <hylje> when it comes to engineering with software, its hard to deduce a single perfect solution
17:20:49 <simon444> this is more of a problem of the project coordinators than oss/commercial philosophies.
17:21:20 <simon444> hylje, look at Plan 9
17:21:32 <hylje> thus we get several attempts at getting great solutions
17:22:37 <simon444> to have a successful project you can not locked down on developers using the same engineering style if you don't have enough money
17:34:05 *** JazzyJaffa has joined #openttd
17:36:37 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
17:36:47 *** peterbrett has joined #openttd
17:46:49 <simon444> everyone stop talking about sex
17:47:29 <simon444> <Rubidium> @kick sacro always wanted to do so
17:47:46 <simon444> * Sacro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
17:47:46 <simon444> <SpComb> or order from pizza hut
17:47:46 <simon444> <Wolf01> ok, let's talk about sex, sacro has been dropped :D
17:47:51 <simon444> <hylje> noboy likes sacro
17:47:56 <simon444> <Rubidium> hylje: exactly, he's the person being kicked most ;)
17:48:41 <Wolf01> but sacro is a good person, he made the daylength patch! ;)
17:53:19 <Sacro> hylje: no, it's called "Sacro's daylength patch"
17:54:53 <Wolf01> and is one line of code
17:55:13 <Wolf01> oh yes, i forgot the comment
17:55:43 <Wolf01> but that was the start for my patch ;)
17:56:18 <Sacro> there was about 4 lines i reckon
17:57:06 <simon444> let me guess the comment was:
17:57:22 <simon444> /* they talk about sex behind my back */
17:57:38 <SpComb> Sacro: just use the awaylogs :(
17:58:13 <SpComb> you'd get the entire thing as hilights:
17:58:13 <SpComb> 19:40:53 -!- simon444 is now known as sacro
17:59:14 <simon444> Sacro, that is totally fake
18:00:35 *** StandartGamer has joined #openttd
18:02:52 <simon444> everyone StandartGamer is here. Lets talk about sex!
18:03:05 <simon444> Rubidium, kick Sacro again.
18:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> again someone that did not realise that it is standar_d_
18:03:50 *** StandartGamer is now known as StandardGamer
18:05:08 <SpComb> the point of the awaylog is to make all of that automatic
18:05:37 <SpComb> if the awaylog implementation sucks, then tell me why so I can improve it :/
18:05:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> "Standarte" is something entirely different :)
18:06:02 <simon444> SpComb, lol using your own bot to fake logs
18:06:14 <simon444> SpComb, you have sunk to a new low
18:06:45 *** skidd13 has joined #openttd
18:06:49 <simon444> you even say it yourself in that faked log
18:08:17 <Sacro> right, going out for birthday tea
18:08:42 <simon444> alright lets start talking
18:10:07 <StandardGamer> so... only English guys here and only one German?
18:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> there are quite some dutch and several germans in here
18:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> and a few people from odd countries...
18:11:57 <StandardGamer> ok i'm getting tired to try to connect to your puplic server for some watching
18:12:05 <hylje> how many from even countries?
18:16:54 <Wezz6400> The Netherlands rule! ;)
18:36:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10699 /trunk/src/bridge_map.cpp: -Fix (r10698): bridge middle parts were drawn too high if the southern bridge head has a foundation.
18:38:04 <skidd13> Eureka, I got improved town roads working.
18:50:13 <Belugas> good going skidd13 :)
18:50:43 <skidd13> Next steps will follow
18:51:04 <UnderBuilder> help: I can't 'remove safely' my mp3 player, when I try to do it, I get an error 'Unit is in use' or something like that (my windows is in spanish, don't know how does the english version look like)
18:51:43 <UnderBuilder> but it can result damaged
18:51:49 <Belugas> the chance you' ve got somethnig broken by the process are REALLY slim
18:51:50 <skidd13> Is youre explorer open?
18:52:14 <Rubidium> you know you have to reboot Windows at least once a day, don't you?
18:52:45 <skidd13> log out is faster and should fix the problem or kill all processes that might use the player.
18:52:57 <Belugas> i do? damned... must be at least 2 months i have not done so :S
18:53:59 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Also great for deleting folders and files
18:54:12 <skidd13> If you have a good admin and a nice custumised install windows runs realy smooth.
18:54:16 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I use it for 2 years now and it's freeware
18:54:39 <Rubidium> or attach a debugger at winlogon and then close the debugger (and winlogon). Helps will all kinds of locking issues.
19:07:06 *** peterbrett has joined #openttd
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19:27:23 <UnderBuilder> unlocker says that ctfmon is using the drive
19:46:42 <Sug> hi, I'm getting the FS#956 bug again in 10699
19:50:15 <Sug> hmm, its only doing it in a save game now actually
19:52:28 <simon444> I find it annoying Google's spell checker has many typos
19:59:07 <Sug> put it up on flyspray with the savegame anyway
20:00:47 <peter1138> any particular vehicle?
20:01:08 <simon444> I think in the year 2012 all vehicles should have updates which mount lasers to them!
20:01:29 <Prof_Frink> simon444: There are no sharks in openttd.
20:01:41 <peter1138> well it's not crashing
20:02:22 <simon444> Prof_Frink, lol. You didn't tune into the news for the past few weeks
20:02:36 <simon444> I think even slashdot covered it
20:03:07 <Prof_Frink> simon444: About the 'merican anti-artillery lasertruck thingy?
20:03:48 <Prof_Frink> Was also on El Reg
20:04:07 <simon444> by 2020 everything should be updated to include lasers
20:12:09 <Sug> Got a clean copy of trunk, and it still does it
20:13:12 <Sug> guess I'm not going to be able to change names with that game
20:33:50 <simon444> Ammler, how is the transport system by your home?
20:36:08 <simon444> Ammler, it was featured in our media today
20:36:32 <simon444> Ammler, they said you have buses going to towns with a population of 12 every hour
20:36:41 <simon444> I assume they are mini-buses
20:37:19 <Ammler> simon444: I guess, they didn't speak about me :)
20:38:14 <Ammler> I wasn't here the whole day
20:38:59 <Ammler> no idea about what you are speaking....
20:39:07 <simon444> <simon444> Ammler, how is the transport system by your home?
20:42:49 <simon444> <simon444> Ammler, it was featured in our media today
20:43:01 <simon444> Ammler, stop doing drugs
20:43:16 <Belugas> crystal ball required...
20:43:39 <Ammler> :) what a bot is that?
20:44:43 <Belugas> a usefull tool required to decipher obscured users thoughs ;)
20:45:13 <simon444> Ammler, really stop doing drugs
20:45:15 <Rubidium> oh, simon444? just /ignore -replies *!*@*.iinet.net.au ALL
20:45:19 <Belugas> thoughs or delirium.. it depends !
20:45:26 <simon444> Ammler, you seem braindead
20:47:39 *** Tlustoch has joined #openttd
20:48:39 <Tlustoch> You should guys play the game online and learn how the game does _not_ work.
20:51:45 *** Moose^ is now known as Rippsy^
21:00:52 *** BobingAbout has joined #openttd
21:12:05 <Belugas> mmh... it's not "to your servive" but "at your service"
21:12:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, english is weird :p
21:22:48 <simon444> Tlustoch, here here!
21:27:41 *** skidd13 has joined #openttd
21:52:38 <Rippsy^> ln-, just ask the question, phrase it politely and if someone knows they will answer
21:53:43 <Koen> Hi guys! what is the most commons reason for pre-signals that won't work
21:54:22 <Koen> it isn't a real complicated track
21:55:12 <simon444> Koen, use one way signals
21:55:30 <Koen> for the rest of the track too?
21:55:48 <Rippsy> im guessing by 'broken'
21:55:48 <Rippsy> you mean trains wont enter the station
21:56:00 <Rippsy> and its because on the exit all the tracks are connected with out signals, so they count as one piece of track
21:56:16 <ln-> Koen: it's probably best to ignore everything that simon444 says.
21:56:42 <Koen> so, alle the to way signals to one-way should work?
21:56:49 <Rippsy> its the station exit which is at fault
21:57:00 <Rippsy> and stop using twoway signals on single direction track
21:57:04 <Rippsy> it just confuses the path finding :P
21:57:15 <simon444> ln-, shut up. what I told him was correct
21:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> Koen: place a signal on each station end
21:57:25 <Koen> well, it's a click more :)
21:57:34 <Rippsy> Koen, if you use the latest nightly its one click for the whole track ;)
21:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> ctrl+click+drag i believe
21:58:12 <Rippsy> Koen you see how the entrance to the station is.. make the exit the same (as in one piece of straight track then connect them all) and then put one way signals exiting the station
21:58:42 <Rippsy> thats what it should look like
21:59:13 <Koen> Rippsy: it works, great :)
21:59:25 <Rippsy> now you can make monster stations :P
21:59:32 <Rippsy> *tries to find the kick arse signal guide he found last night*
22:00:34 <simon444> I want to team with someone on a game
22:01:05 <simon444> I will do the road transport you can do what ever other transport you want
22:01:12 <simon444> Rippsy, pfft it is morning
22:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> i am afraid you annoyed the hell out of everyone relevant :p
22:01:36 <simon444> Rippsy, I am a nocturnal human
22:01:47 <simon444> Eddi|zuHause3, yeah like who?
22:01:57 <simon444> Eddi|zuHause3, tell me the truth you all love me
22:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> like, everyone...
22:02:15 <Rippsy> simon444, usually I would
22:02:21 <Rippsy> but sadl I have work tomorrow :P
22:02:28 <simon444> Eddi|zuHause3, if I was kidnapped you would pay the ransom
22:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think so...
22:05:26 *** BobingAbout has joined #openttd
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22:18:40 <ln-> if i wanted to do something win32-specific in strings.cpp, what's the appropriate way to do it?
22:20:03 <ln-> that's how i'm doing it now, but i very strongly doubt it's the appropriate way.
22:21:06 <Rubidium> ln-: depends whether it needs to be ported to non windows platforms or not
22:21:14 <Rubidium> and what it exactly is
22:22:04 <ln-> an alternative implementation for GetCurrentLocale() basically.
22:22:43 <ln-> the getenv-based which is currently used, is completely "portable", but does not give useful results on WIN32, as far as i know.
22:33:35 <ln-> 1) is that really an LCD fernseher anyway..
22:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> what else would it be?
22:34:56 <ln-> it's not particularly big, and it's not right next to the wall so there is room for the tube behind it.
22:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's not mine (fortunately :))
22:35:39 <skidd13> Hooray the North American Road Set is out
22:35:50 <ln-> 2) the floor, which is not even mentioned, might be one of the most expensive things to fix.
22:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> the floor might be more expensive, but less important to fix
22:38:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> 's certainly is not necessary for the joke :)
22:38:59 <glx> looks like an eurocard ads remake
22:39:15 <ln-> that picture has been floating around for some time without those texts attached.
22:39:46 *** JazzyJaffa has joined #openttd
22:40:27 <ln-> Rubidium: would it be an acceptable solution to place GetCurrentLocale within #ifndef WIN32 in strings.cpp and implement it win32.cpp?
22:44:17 <simon444> Eddi|zuHause3, VERY old
22:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> simon444: so what?
22:48:14 <ln-> simon444: you mean Enhanced with Adobe(R) Photoshop(r).
22:57:06 <Rippsy> Eddi|zuHause3 floor is easy, sand it down, polish it up - assuming its real wood
22:57:13 <Rippsy> not crappy pretend wood in which case they deserve it
23:06:05 *** BobingAbout has joined #openttd
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23:07:22 <simon444> Eddi|zuHause3, no it is not
23:07:36 <simon444> Eddi|zuHause3, that is a common myth
23:08:49 <simon444> Covered or soaked with a liquid, such as water.
23:09:03 <Prof_Frink> Rippsy: Having to collect your kids from school in a hovercraft
23:09:20 <Rippsy> Prof_Frink, only counts if you have a racing hovercraft and get in the local paper
23:09:35 <Prof_Frink> Rippsy: And on the BBC wobsite
23:09:40 <Rippsy> simon444, so by its very definition water is wet since to be wet is to be covered in water
23:09:41 <ln-> does anyone care to try it?
23:09:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> and you want to tell me that water is not covered in water?
23:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> i kinda lack windows to try it :p
23:12:52 <ln-> tomorrow i could try to add yet another implementation for the macintosh.
continue to next day ⏵
