IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-06-19
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00:05:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10212 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Fix [FS#723]: money overflow bugs in many locations.
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02:49:33 <Hendikins> Is it just me, or do serviced industries on maps that have very few industries *really* ramp the production up?
02:50:18 * Hendikins is looking at a forest with 936 production near a coal mine with 540
03:23:38 <Phazorx> Hendikins: pruction increase is based on changing production of something once in a while
03:24:02 <Phazorx> in case of smooth industries it is more leser changes and if it is off - less ore substantial ones
03:24:31 <Phazorx> if you have 50 - chance of increasing production on any one of them is based on 1/50 chance of being selected 1st
03:24:44 <Phazorx> if you have 5 that is 10 times larger
03:25:06 <Phazorx> and on average each will have 10 time more chances to get affected
03:25:58 <Phazorx> and the chance of positive affect is up to two times higher in case if it is being exploited with high rating
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03:40:57 <mic> can anybody explain why all prototypes in ottd sources are written with "typedef"?
03:42:04 <mic> typedef void f ( int a ) ;
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03:56:04 <mic> runned into lots procs definition and thought it was used for prototyping ))
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05:08:18 <Phazorx> hash optimization seems to have great performance difference betwee number of engines in a train
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06:09:14 <Phazorx> peter1138: i think it was my bad
06:09:43 <peter1138> "performance difference" doesn't mean much
06:10:04 <Phazorx> peter1138: i doungraded chimeras to lev3
06:10:20 <Phazorx> after that noticed that ttd started eating twice as much cpu
06:10:32 <Phazorx> and the effect was gone
06:11:04 <Phazorx> since i dont feel like adding engines to 900 trains again - trying to use alt methods to figure out reason for spike
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07:21:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r10213 /branches/gamebalance/ (163 files in 15 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r10100:10200 from trunk
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08:24:15 <DJGummikuh> I just emerged openttd with timidity support (gentoo linux) because I wanted to try out the music... nevertheless, when I try to start the music, nothing happens..
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08:34:10 <peter1138> timidity sucks either way ;p
08:38:13 <Gekkko> you're mocking my PDA!
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08:45:38 <DJGummikuh> peter1138: is there any other way ot play the music?
08:45:50 <DJGummikuh> and where is the music located anyways? I searched the game folder but found no music..
08:45:55 <DJGummikuh> or is it wrapped inside a grf file?
08:46:42 <peter1138> it should be in the gm folder
08:47:08 <DJGummikuh> I have data lang scenario scripts
08:47:32 <stillunknown> Phazorx: performance difference how?
08:48:54 <Haos> DJGummikuh: you need music files from original game
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08:50:24 <Phazorx> stillunknown: twice what it was before
08:50:32 <Phazorx> but it seems to be somewhat random
08:50:37 <Phazorx> i can not reproduce it
08:50:47 <Phazorx> and save after reloading works fine
08:52:25 <stillunknown> Why are you certain "this" is the cause?
08:53:41 <stillunknown> You have no savegame that reproduces it?
08:54:18 <Phazorx> but actio sequence was - everything fine > park 900 trains > replace/add engines manually > unpark all trains
08:54:34 <Phazorx> amount of "train tiles" is same
08:54:46 <Phazorx> only thing changed is balanace between engines and cars
08:55:05 <Phazorx> i have save game before downgrade
08:55:30 <stillunknown> You will need to find a simpler way to reproduce it, since this is rather vague.
08:55:34 <Phazorx> however i only experienced problem after the change during same session
08:55:58 <Phazorx> well i did similar things before - there was 3 major redesignns on that game
08:56:11 <Phazorx> every time trains were parked and then released later
08:56:28 <Phazorx> this time i also fiddled with engines/cars
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09:00:37 <stillunknown> So you replaced a lot of first engines?
09:03:31 <dihedral> my i bother someone and ask for a little help?
09:03:56 <dihedral> regarding some fetched data with the phplib
09:03:58 <valhallasw> don't ask to ask, ask ;)
09:03:59 <stillunknown> Don't ask to ask, just ask.
09:04:40 <dihedral> the file query.php is using openttd.class.php to query my Fair Play #3 server
09:04:46 <Phazorx> stillunknown: 1sr engines were autoreplaces
09:04:53 <dihedral> some information is slightly offset !!
09:05:44 <Gekkko> I want to make Australian Tram grfs
09:06:07 <dihedral> details: company_value for "risto Transport" is already incorrect
09:06:14 <dihedral> in game data is slightly heigher
09:06:36 <DJGummikuh> dihedral: not realtime I assume
09:07:04 <dihedral> udp connection is established as soon as you open query.php
09:07:22 <dihedral> sending OTTD_PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO
09:08:39 <dihedral> and if you look at "performance_history" in the output, that should be a 477
09:09:18 <dihedral> feel free to open up 0.5.2 and check the data fetched in game for openttd.dihedral.de:27020
09:12:36 <dihedral> but thanks for the help
09:12:55 <dihedral> at least to some extent
09:14:07 <dihedral> problem was in RecvUint64
09:14:31 <dihedral> as in $res += ord($packet['data'][$packet['pos']++]) << 64; does not belong there :-)
09:15:30 <peter1138> RecvUint64: i = RecvUint32; i |= RecvUint32 << 32;
09:16:32 <mic> hello again :) i made a very use small and useful patch for openttd
09:16:51 <mic> it is called "build *under* slopes"
09:17:41 <dihedral> i thought slopes went the other way around
09:17:47 <mic> it let remove or create built-on-slope cells then it is necessary
09:18:06 <mic> without need to delete the cell itself
09:18:08 <hylje> mic: screenshots please
09:19:17 <DJGummikuh> so you can do landwork with roads and trainstuff on it?
09:20:12 <mic> a little less :) you can create/modify/delete builT-on-slope cell if the cell allows
09:20:52 <mic> have you encountered situations then somebody used sloped rails and you can not build tunnel under him?
09:21:03 <DJGummikuh> mic: a dozen times
09:21:12 <DJGummikuh> if that patch solves it thats cool :)
09:21:20 <mic> (or you have dig down more or buiild bridge)
09:21:29 <mic> this patch simply lets you remove the slope
09:22:00 <stillunknown> But what happens to the stuff on top of that slope?
09:22:16 <mic> have you encountered situation then u need to raise/lower 1 cell inside city?
09:22:30 <XeryusTC> mic: so you can terraform under tiles that have foundations on them?
09:22:33 <mic> or want tunnel inside city for example
09:23:01 <DJGummikuh> XeryusTC: sounds that way
09:23:02 <mic> with this patch you need only 1 buildings instead of many buildings to destroy
09:23:17 <DJGummikuh> mic: two I woudl assume
09:23:29 <DJGummikuh> you need the tunnel and the slope downards to it
09:23:54 <mic> XeryusTC: you can create/modify/delete foundation, without changing cell itself, if cell allows it :)
09:24:50 <XeryusTC> mic: ah, that was implemented before, but DV deleted it because it didnt work half of the time IIRC
09:27:07 <mic> i tested it, work correct, i hope always :)
09:27:38 <peter1138> ahh, like ttdpatch's "autoslope"
09:28:25 <peter1138> ^S isn't that hard ;)
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09:41:48 <dihedral> is TrueBrain or Rubidium around?
09:59:42 <hylje> so you can push industries to foundations too?
09:59:52 <Thomas[NL]> what rockground graphic is that?
10:00:40 <Thomas[NL]> oh its the original :P
10:01:02 <mic> can push down even transmitters )
10:01:19 <mic> but only 1 cell, for foundation
10:02:14 <mic> useful in cities, you don't need to buldorize many building if you need to lower land somethere
10:02:33 <XeryusTC> ah yes, the old stuff that DV removed
10:02:38 <XeryusTC> very usefull feature :)
10:05:19 <Thomas[NL]> is it similar to ttdpatch's AutoSlope?
10:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> funny that the two first pictures are "backwards" ;)
10:05:55 <XeryusTC> Thomas[NL]: seems not
10:06:07 <XeryusTC> it just allows you to make/remove foundations by terrafomring
10:06:49 <Thomas[NL]> I never played ttdpatch with autoslope, how is it different?
10:07:22 <XeryusTC> autoslope allows you to terraform everywhere and industries etc just move along with the hills IIRC
10:07:56 <XeryusTC> oh, it's the same :P
10:08:04 <XeryusTC> confused with some other patch feature
10:08:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> you're not supposed to actually move existing buildings
10:08:57 <Thomas[NL]> any known bugs mic?
10:09:48 <peter1138> assuming it doesn't let you actually change the height of what's on the tile, i need a patch ;)
10:11:09 <mic> have not tested a lot but i fixed all that i have seen (and i have seen a lot:)
10:11:33 <mic> i does not change height ) but it was changing in first edit )
10:11:47 <mic> could flood towns and industries
10:12:40 <mic> if you lower factory with drag-lower it will usually keep 3 peeks on which factory will stand
10:13:01 <mic> if factory is 3 blocks of 2x2
10:13:19 <hylje> can all foundations be undoed?
10:14:04 <mic> can raise it all ban if you need
10:14:08 <peter1138> including the current terraforming bugs? heh
10:14:24 <peter1138> (you can terraform up but not down again in some places)
10:14:24 <mic> dont know how i typed this )
10:15:42 <mic> it was bugs with rails or with not rails?
10:15:56 <peter1138> on half/steep slopes
10:18:17 <mic> i tested rails toom hope no bugs left :)
10:19:58 <peter1138> may i see the patch?
10:20:14 <peter1138> shame it's against 0.5.2
10:20:54 <mic> i should take... nightly?
10:21:14 <peter1138> latest trunk is best
10:22:57 <XeryusTC> there's a huge difference between .5.2 and latest trunk IIRC
10:23:33 <hylje> your download is stuck?
10:23:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> better than 105% :)
10:23:51 <peter1138> mic: make the patch anyway? :)
10:25:05 * Phazorx wants more optimization
10:25:47 <oxygene_> what about just removing "unsafe slopes" code?
10:26:07 <oxygene_> i did it locally and couldn't find anything "unsafe"
10:26:15 <oxygene_> what's the point of it?
10:26:18 <peter1138> there's always something
10:26:30 <peter1138> usually some untested combination goes wrong
10:27:03 <Rubidium> peter1138: that code just behaves wrong (it doesn't properly test for unsafeness)
10:27:24 <oxygene_> i tried a lot of combinations =)
10:27:37 <peter1138> Rubidium: i know, but it does stop some illegal combinations, iirc
10:27:56 <oxygene_> i'd like to see one illegal combination if you can think of one
10:28:33 <Rubidium> I think Tron wanted that the slope of the foundation didn't change, it only wasn't implemented properly
10:29:16 <peter1138> yick, nasty downloaders
10:29:53 <mic> only 5 secs delay to download )
10:30:21 <Rubidium> yes, and no way to look at the patch in the browser; need to start an external editor
10:30:51 <mic> it is all forced mime-types )
10:31:13 <peter1138> + /* bug: tunnel's exit can destroy rail on slope,
10:31:13 <peter1138> + if rail has the same direction as the slope */
10:31:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> you could just have uploaded it to bugs.openttd.org, probably
10:32:41 <peter1138> oxygene_: yup, removing the unsafe bit allows you to terraform into tunnels
10:33:17 <oxygene_> as far as i remember there was extra code to check for tunnels (?)
10:33:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> "there is no tunnel" :p
10:33:47 <Phazorx> stillunknown: is it possible to apply your patch on top of curent trunk
10:35:36 <mic> there bugs with road destruction if it is half-road and it is build on non-steep slope with 1 raised corner. but this is not mine it already exists :)
10:36:00 <peter1138> half-roads are destroyed all over the place :o
10:36:17 <mic> that is right that i am about )
10:36:29 <peter1138> i was confirming it, it's normal, heh
10:37:52 <mic> ....with 2 bugs this patch was actually 10 lines :-))
10:39:31 <scia> hmm, how did i type that...
10:42:14 <peter1138> if ( !IsNewCrappyRail )
10:42:19 <peter1138> nice variable names :p
10:51:27 <mic> it is good that i removed some obsences from comments :)
10:53:01 <SpComb> `rgrep fuck /usr/src/kernel-2.4.27-2/ | wc -l` or such
10:53:24 <SpComb> kernel-headers has two
10:54:46 <stillunknown> Phazorx: No, and atm i don't see a need to update it.
10:55:16 <Phazorx> stillunknown: i have 900 trains and oven temperature CPU on contrary :)
10:57:11 <peter1138> is that normal or after you made it "slow down" ?
10:57:17 <stillunknown> Phazorx: provide the savegame, i'll profile it today or tomorrow, then i'll decide.
10:57:56 <Phazorx> peter1138: i added more trains and CPU usage did not grew linearly
10:58:24 <stillunknown> Profiling will reveal the bottleneck.
10:58:43 <Phazorx> and i can not tell anything about normal anymore i tihnk i was mistaken in my calculation since i am trying diff builds and savegame but i dont see same picture as i saw a week ago
10:59:30 <stillunknown> Just provide the savegame, a second opinion is never bad.
11:00:01 <Phazorx> stillunknown: i was trying to make a case on situation vs load study
11:00:06 <Phazorx> aint making sense no more
11:01:25 <stillunknown> Do i have to hit you twice before you'll give me the savegame ;-)
11:01:43 <scia> 13:00:07 < Phazorx> aint making sense no more <-- so it makes sense?
11:01:45 <Phazorx> i am tidiing it up hang on :)
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11:07:12 <oxygene_> could you point me to a website which describes how to change a sprite?
11:07:38 <hylje> oxygene_: not shorthand, but you need grfcodec and an image editor
11:07:58 <oxygene_> i just need a starting point to google for ;)
11:08:16 <Phazorx> stillunknown: that is the safe for ya
11:08:16 <oxygene_> but grfcodec sounds like one
11:08:17 <stillunknown> Phazorx: url doesn't work
11:08:24 <mic> peter1138: found some bugs :) will fix.
11:08:24 <hylje> stillunknown: theres a space
11:08:39 <mic> peter1138: that me do further with this patch?
11:12:36 <Caemyr> mic: i love this patch already
11:12:53 <Caemyr> it overcomes some of the most pissing things in TTDLX
11:13:13 <Caemyr> especially the second part:P
11:13:39 <Caemyr> i would like to see it in trunk:)
11:16:49 <Maedhros> looks like a pretty nice and clean patch
11:16:58 <Maedhros> i'll have to look over it again when less hungover though ;)
11:20:13 <TheJosh> Maedhros: after proucing a few crap patches and getting constantly flaming for style, i made sure this one was as perfect as I could before release
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11:40:06 <mic> strange, AI is building such shit that any player can't )
11:41:10 <TheJosh> should be artificial unintellegence
11:41:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have seen screenshots of players titled like "worse than AI"
11:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> "make something idiot proof and someone finds a better idiot"
11:46:40 <Phazorx> idiot proof, as well as warning labels are counteragents to evolution IMO
11:47:04 <mic> look that stupid AI just built )
11:47:15 <Thomas[NL]> my nightly uses the .cfg file of my standard installation where it first used the one in his own bin-directory, is this intended?
11:48:18 <Phazorx> btw, with new .grf configuration, is there a wa to specifyroot for /data ?
11:48:30 <Phazorx> cuz on windows with no symlinks it is a hassle to update grfs
11:50:30 <hylje> Phazorx: xp supports directory symlinks
11:50:44 <Thomas[NL]> first it used /home/***/openttd/bin/openttd.cfg (where I checkout and make latest svn) now it uses /home/***/.openttd./openttd.cfg
11:51:04 <Phazorx> my ln -s doesnt work ehre
11:51:07 <hylje> vista supports proper symlinks
11:51:40 <Phazorx> actualy i dont think i ever tryed it
11:51:48 <Phazorx> and i do have w32 unixtools
11:52:46 <hylje> for the record, FAT supported symlinks but MS decided to use the symlink allocated fields for long filenames
11:52:54 <Phazorx> C:\GAMES\OTTD>ln -s data ../ottd.data
11:52:54 <Phazorx> ln: symbolic links are not supported on this system
11:54:49 <dihedral> just still need to add the newgrf data :-)
11:56:16 <mic> is here a easy way to make screenshot of some point on dedicated server?
11:57:05 <Phazorx> after reading that i dont think it is safe to use
11:57:12 <ln-> Phazorx: don't blame me for that.
11:57:14 <Phazorx> so back to my question
11:57:33 <Phazorx> is there a way to specify root of newgrf section somehow?
11:57:49 <Phazorx> ln-: i;m nt to blame, i'm to figure out what can be done to make it back liek ti was ebfore
11:58:04 <Phazorx> and not havign to maintaoin 20 copies of 30mbs of grfs
11:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> mic: in 0.5.2, yes, nightly needs special blitter on startup
11:58:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can use "scrollto" and "screenshot" commands, i believe
11:58:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> Brianetta used that on his server for a "live webcam"
11:59:04 <Phazorx> where did that go then
12:00:13 <Phazorx> hylje: on that note, kidna sat to see vista, seeing the light in 2005 catching up with "ln -s" available in normal OSes for more than 20 years
12:00:47 <Phazorx> make that 30 years actualy
12:01:05 <hylje> its not like MS has boasted on technical superiority for the last 10 years
12:01:15 <hylje> w95 was somewhat like it, though
12:02:53 <mic> if there is live web can for server, we could write javascript webclient then :)
12:06:39 <dihedral> sounds a little nasty
12:06:49 <dihedral> an applet would probably we a lot better
12:07:02 <dihedral> anyway - the openttdlib only does udp querying
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12:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> mic: it's not really "live", he took a screenshot like every 7 minutes
12:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm sure there's a thread about it in the forum
12:10:55 <dihedral> there is a thread about a java client, yes
12:11:29 <TrueBrain> too CPU intense to do it much more often than the 7 minutes :)
12:18:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10214 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_base.cpp: -Fix: off-by-one in draw-rect-color-remapping (peter1138)
12:19:39 <Phazorx> will it be hard to make a patch for replacing "." with config param for referencing data and save folders?
12:19:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10215 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_simple.cpp: -Fix r10214: forgot 2 cases of the same mistake
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12:25:48 <Rubidium> Phazorx: probably not, but why would that be needed?
12:26:54 <Phazorx> Rubidium: for windows users with no ln -s capability it would be very nice
12:27:06 <Phazorx> untill recent builds i had one copy of grfs
12:27:11 <Phazorx> with hardlinked config patrhs
12:27:28 <Phazorx> now it doesnt take them and i have to make and maintain as many copies as i have builds
12:28:16 <Rubidium> Phazorx: just dump the newgrfs in docs&settings/username/Documents/OpenTTD
12:28:27 <Rubidium> then all builds should just get the newgrfs from there
12:28:42 <Thomas[NL]> hmm some strange thing: when I launch openttd via terminal it uses the user's home directory openttd.cfg, if i doubleclick the executable it crashes but seems to use the resolution in the current directories openttd.cfg
12:29:15 <hylje> Rubidium: so if i have my newgrfs and configs in ~/openttd/, recent build will see there first?
12:29:39 <Phazorx> Rubidium: is that path documented anywhere ?
12:29:53 <Rubidium> only when there isn't a openttd.cfg in your current working directory (will look for that also in ~/.openttd/
12:30:55 <Thomas[NL]> stupid me, I used bin/openttd in the terminal and it looked for a cfg in bin ...
12:31:21 <Thomas[NL]> eh in openttd NOT in bin i mean :)
12:32:47 <Phazorx> Rubidium: are you sure that is the correct path?
12:33:19 <Rubidium> start openttd with -d misc=4 as parameter and it'll show you a list on the console with the search paths it uses
12:33:54 <hylje> Rubidium: quite many paths there
12:33:59 <Rubidium> Phazorx: how did you compile?
12:35:34 <Rubidium> ah, then you need to reconfigure manually, because the "old" setting for the personal dir was "" (don't use it), so it doesn't use the home dir. If you configure manually it will make you have a home directory.
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12:39:34 <Phazorx> i tihnk it assumes ming's homedit :/
12:40:27 <Rubidium> just look at the output when you start openttd with -d misc=4 as parameter
12:48:44 * peter1138 has 4 search paths? :o
12:49:38 <Phazorx> i see the proper path now
12:50:02 <Phazorx> and tried using it as root or ~/data
12:51:08 <XeryusTC> Phazorx: grfs dont need data/ anymore
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12:51:47 <Phazorx> i dont know what they need since there are not docs so i decided it worth a try
12:53:18 <Phazorx> hmm... my bad... workes now, but not quite sure whatehelped
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13:01:41 <Biff> "cant clear this area, not enough money"
13:04:09 <mic> maybe you wrapped to negative?
13:04:46 <mic> and how you want to clean in paused game?
13:05:02 <Biff> i just took pause after the message came
13:05:37 <Biff> i saw in the svn log that the data type of money has been changed, so i guess its related
13:12:51 <Thomas[NL]> did you load a old save game in newest trunk? maybe that won't work
13:17:09 <stillunknown> Phazorx: I did a test, collision checking is not the biggest problem.
13:18:07 <Thomas[NL]> hmm, seems not the problem Biff, i used the money cheat to get about the same amount you got in that screen and I get the same error
13:20:26 <Phazorx> stillunknown: what is ?
13:20:57 <blathijs> Biff: Thomas[NL]: If it's reproducible, please post instructions and a savegame to flyspray
13:23:01 <stillunknown> Phazorx: TrainController, LocoHandler, HashUpdates
13:23:19 <stillunknown> Then comes collision enum
13:23:51 <stillunknown> Going to try what happens if i increase the hashmap size.
13:24:21 <Phazorx> i tihnk peter1138 tried
13:25:21 <mic> depot.... that type of cell is it?
13:25:42 <peter1138> depends on the depot type
13:25:51 <stillunknown> Phazorx: I think it's safe to say that there are no more easy improvements left.
13:25:55 <peter1138> rail depot is on a rail tile, etc
13:26:19 <Phazorx> i gues that save has too many tracks?
13:26:56 <stillunknown> Phazorx: It's probably the speed and the amount of trains, but this game should be playable.
13:27:36 <Phazorx> stillunknown: well since i downgraded trains i can not say that vehicle speed has any relevance
13:27:54 <Phazorx> and if you remember EvsL
13:28:04 <Phazorx> which is twice as wide but half as long
13:28:27 <Phazorx> with same amount fo trains it performs about 5 times better
13:28:38 <peter1138> i wonder what effect going back to the old hash table would have?
13:28:51 <Phazorx> peter1138: slideshow?
13:29:09 <Phazorx> one thing which i didnt get was nonelinearity in performance vs amount of trains
13:29:26 <Phazorx> after icnreasing amount by 40% loaded doubled
13:29:33 <stillunknown> I would like to note that an efficient integration of the hash code could improve performance.
13:30:04 <Biff> savegame here, i cant post on flyspray later but no time now
13:30:20 <SmatZ> stillunknown: hash algoritmh is rather good now, all entries have very similiar number of matching vehicles
13:32:16 <stillunknown> Going from 7 to 8 bits does improve it a bit.
13:33:02 <stillunknown> But the TrainLocoHandler and TrainController are the problem now.
13:33:10 <peter1138> yes, vehicles in each bucket
13:36:31 <stillunknown> Possible optimizations lie in only checking certain things when entering a new tile.
13:38:29 <peter1138> train controller is... hmm
13:40:17 <stillunknown> There's room for improvement.
13:40:40 <stillunknown> Like checking for stations, waypoints, etc.
13:40:47 <stillunknown> That can be done on entering new tile.
13:48:19 <Thomas[NL]> wow, what harbour/station set is this? (pic comes from ISA's screenshots)
13:53:55 <SmatZ> it is possible to cause desync of clients that connected after you have connected
13:54:19 <SmatZ> because trains crash the first train it finds
13:54:30 <SmatZ> but client that connect after you have
13:54:42 <SmatZ> may have different order of vehicles in the hash table
13:55:48 <SmatZ> you have the order in what order vehicles entered the tile, but anyone connecting after you have order based on vehicle ID
13:56:14 <SmatZ> anyway, train crashing only the first train it encounters, it is probably not correct
13:57:05 <mic> does city builds buildings on steep slope?
13:59:16 <Rubidium> hmm, SmatZ actually, only the new clients could desync; the old clients are still in sync with the server
14:00:00 <SmatZ> Rubidium: only those who connected after you have connected and prepared the bad situation
14:00:14 <SmatZ> it is not as harmful...
14:00:17 <Rubidium> so it would be solved if the complete cache is sent over the network
14:00:39 <SmatZ> well, this is not a nice thing to do :)
14:00:40 <Rubidium> but then again, what's the chance that a train collides with two other trains?
14:01:16 <SmatZ> you have to do that intentionally
14:01:23 <Rubidium> would (I think) mean that the trains are already crashed
14:02:47 <SmatZ> trains 1 and 2 are near, but diff > 6
14:02:57 <SmatZ> when train 3 arrives, it crashes only train 1
14:03:06 <SmatZ> but ... when you were on server before
14:03:18 <SmatZ> and train 2 arrived earlier to that tile
14:03:26 <SmatZ> then train 3 would crash train 2
14:03:33 <SmatZ> because it is first in the hash table
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14:06:20 <SmatZ> Rubidium: when loaded, it crashes train 2, because it has higher vehicleID, and so it is first in the list ... but when playing and train 2 arrived first, it will crash train 1, because it will be first in the list
14:06:38 <SmatZ> vehicles are added in the front of the list
14:07:06 <SmatZ> this may cause desync...
14:11:48 <Digitalfox_> I've been playing with newindustries in patch, and i must say that they look great and add a lot of new gaming, but nothing like openttd.. Just for changing the starting date of a game i have to search the faq to know how to change.. :\
14:12:44 <Digitalfox_> Making the resolution work ok in my TFT is another problem..
14:13:20 <Digitalfox_> Thankgod for openttd, and all the easy ways of making stugg work
14:15:40 <Digitalfox_> But i now have a question, when openttd supports newindustries, all planes, road vehicles, ships and trains must be loaded with set's to have those cargo's or the default vehicles that came with openttd will be able to support this new cargo's?
14:16:09 <Digitalfox_> Like having some kind of reffit..
14:19:24 <peter1138> yes, new vehicle sets must be loaded too
14:19:37 <peter1138> you could simply have a set that only set the cargo classes
14:21:36 <peter1138> SmatZ: i always wondered about that. of course it affected the old hash too, so i'm not too concerned currently ;)
14:30:22 <SmatZ> peter1138: yes, I also found this problem while modifying the hash code :) but the solution wouldn't be in a hash table, but more like - if a vehicle to crash is found, then search all vehicles in the hash chain and crash them all, sorted by vehicle ID
14:30:35 <SmatZ> it would be consistent and not causing any slowdowns
14:31:28 <peter1138> i had a patch to save the hash table somewhere
14:31:29 <SmatZ> *crash them all = crash all of those the new vehicle would crash
14:31:48 <SmatZ> I think better idea is to let users have their own hash tabel size
14:32:13 <SmatZ> sending the hash table would need all to have the same hash table size...
14:32:28 <SmatZ> and consuming a lot of bandwidth
14:32:50 <SmatZ> like 100s of kbytes, even mbytes...
14:33:36 <peter1138> assuming the current size and a large game, less than 64KB
14:34:10 <SmatZ> and taking care at byte order ... I think the idea of determined order of crashing is more suitable :)
14:34:29 <peter1138> save game already takes care of byte order
14:35:10 <peter1138> one thing that would be good is a network command "reset temp data" or something that the server sends when a client joins
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14:35:28 <peter1138> would help yapf a bit
14:35:57 <SmatZ> I don't know yapf code :(
14:36:17 <SmatZ> does it depend on the order of vehicles in the hash table, too?
14:36:21 <peter1138> ah, it has an internal cache
14:36:27 <Rubidium> yapf's caches are invalidated at the beginning of each game tick
14:39:30 <SmatZ> If I had to make a patch, I would use some determined order of crashing - it would solve the problem that only one train is crashed, when there should me crashed more at once
14:39:30 <SmatZ> also, saving hash table into savefile would make it a bit bigger and incompatible with any future hash table changes ... also, clients couldn't have different hash table size than the server etc.
14:39:57 <SmatZ> and if crashing the trains is the only reason to save the hash table...
14:40:31 <peter1138> 15:36 < SmatZ> If I had to make a patch,
14:40:35 <peter1138> sounds like you volunteered? ;)
14:41:20 <SmatZ> I don't know English very well :)
14:41:58 <SmatZ> there won't be much coding about it
14:50:05 <Touqen> It appears you know English well enough. Most native english speakers still can't grasp good vs. well and when each is supposed to be used.
14:53:28 <oxygene_> good, you might be right
14:57:06 <stillunknown> train_cmd.cpp line 3273, does anyone know what the purpose of that loop is?
15:00:35 <Rubidium> stillunknown: so the train moves multiple "steps"; it always moves per 1 game unit, but fast trains need to move multiple game units in a single tick
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15:03:51 <SmatZ> Vehicle *coll = GetFirstVehicleInChain(realcoll);
15:03:51 <SmatZ> if (IsFrontEngine(coll)) SetVehicleCrashed(coll);
15:04:03 <SmatZ> coult coll not be a front engine?
15:04:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10216 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 4 dirs):
15:04:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: palette animation always redid all palette entries, where in fact only a few indexes were needed
15:04:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: allow blitters to handle palette animation internally or even disable it; 8bpp uses video-backend for palette animation
15:05:14 <Rubidium> SmatZ: in depots those lists of "free" wagons
15:05:49 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yes ... this piece of code is from the train collision checker
15:06:11 <Rubidium> the wagons in a depot are in the hash table too IIRC
15:06:15 <stillunknown> SmatZ: trains have to collide with something, you don't teleport into another train
15:06:28 *** [BiG^BrotheR] has joined #openttd
15:06:47 <Touqen> Haven't you seen The Fly?
15:09:10 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yes, this is already solved by v->u.rail.track != TRACK_BIT_DEPOT ...
15:09:45 <SmatZ> probably when a crashed vehicle disappears
15:11:50 <SmatZ> stillunknown: I dont understand what you are talking about :(
15:15:26 <mic> ...about some details with that patch
15:15:37 <mic> is it ok to dig under channels?
15:15:53 <stillunknown> SmatZ: There is always one front engine that crashes into another train, that's enough.
15:16:45 <mic> should channels-on-slopes be allowed? :)
15:18:05 <hylje> channels with foundations
15:18:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10217 /trunk/src/video/ (cocoa_v.mm sdl_v.cpp win32_v.cpp): -Fix r10216: forgot to declare 'blitter' in win32 and cocoa driver (tnx glx)
15:20:07 <mic> channel is like an any other construction ) looks like sloped channels should be allowed too... hm )
15:22:37 <SmatZ> nice, it seems to work even without evaluating crashes in a given order
15:22:54 <SmatZ> i don't know the network code :(
15:24:22 <mic> and i dont understand why canals are destroyed during terraformingwhile everything else except purchased land is not
15:24:31 <Rubidium> SmatZ: the main question is whether Random is called when actually crashing the train, or whether random is called sometime later
15:24:47 <Rubidium> on the vehicle tick for example
15:24:56 <SmatZ> Rubidium: it happens in one tick
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15:25:21 <SmatZ> and it doesn't matter if crashes 1->3->2 or 2->3->1 (vehicleID)
15:25:50 <SmatZ> SetVehicleCrashed() doesn't call any network code, so it seems to work
15:26:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10218 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix r10216: more compile errors
15:27:12 <Rubidium> SmatZ: rather that it doesn't call random or uses anything of the game state except the fact that it crashed, so it works
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15:33:19 <pyrotechnick> OPENTTD IS AWESOME
15:33:31 <pyrotechnick> i cant believe it has its own irc lol
15:33:39 *** DreaM[BrB] has joined #openttd
15:33:46 <pyrotechnick> no seriously are any developers in here?
15:34:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10219 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#882,FS#890]: land under foundations was terraform when it shouldn't be terraformed.
15:35:21 <TrueBrain> they are really annoying and stuff, never come here, and always bitch about things
15:36:23 <pyrotechnick> they are probably busy being awesome somewhere else if thats true
15:36:32 <pyrotechnick> so is it like fully reimplemented in C?
15:36:37 * Maedhros is *always* busy being awesome :p
15:36:38 <pyrotechnick> what was it written in to start with
15:36:46 <TrueBrain> Maedhros: true true :)
15:36:56 <pyrotechnick> dude u typed that fast
15:37:06 <pyrotechnick> i thort u had like a script or something
15:37:10 <TrueBrain> pyrotechnick: try hitting enter after you reread your line ;)
15:37:39 <pyrotechnick> it was all part of my plan
15:38:14 <TrueBrain> but anyway, welcome to our channel
15:38:41 <stillunknown> Maybe trains can be made more event driven (aka OnEnterNewTile), or is this impossible?
15:40:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10220 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp video/cocoa_v.mm video/win32_v.cpp): -Fix r10216: even more fuck-ups for non-SDL video backends
15:40:46 <TrueBrain> oh, forgot to say: tnx glx for finding the bugs :)
15:43:50 <peter1138> a windows server just random did some updates and rebooted
15:43:54 <peter1138> they're all set to manual only
15:44:39 <hylje> peter1138: in that case, enjoy your AIDS
15:45:13 <oxygene_> r10219 fixed the bug by not alowing to change the foundations?
15:45:49 <helb> Hi, is there any way to disable using ~/.openttd/ for saving config file? I want to keep each version with its own openttd.cfg. I know that one way is edit it in source code, but i hope its not the only...
15:46:22 <TrueBrain> ./configure --without-personal-path I believe
15:46:27 <TrueBrain> (see ./configure --help)
15:46:43 <SmatZ> peter1138: thanks, I did not too many changes, rather moved the code
15:46:56 <Rubidium> it's --without-personal-dir by the way or --personal-dir=""
15:47:03 <SmatZ> should I open a bug at flyspray?
15:47:07 <Sacro> TrueBrain: afaik it does it like that by default
15:47:19 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: dir.. path... all the same ;)
15:47:39 <peter1138> SmatZ: change "if (tcc.num != 0) {" to "if (tcc.num == 0) return;" and you can save having to indent the last bit
15:48:23 <helb> It seems to be ok, thanks. :)
15:52:31 <peter1138> hmm, the last bit in findtraincollideenum looks odd
15:53:04 <SmatZ> + if (IsFrontEngine(coll)) SetVehicleCrashed(coll); ?
15:53:19 <peter1138> forgot that did the whole chain
15:53:53 <SmatZ> I am not sure, maybe it could be moved inside the if ( ! crashed )
15:56:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10221 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: the one way sprites weren't drawn in the correct order, so they could remove the tramtrack in some cases.
16:02:48 <peter1138> he's a patch machine
16:04:14 <SmatZ> if you are talking about rubidium :)
16:06:30 <skidd13> yeah, but only few comments :(
16:07:17 <Belugas> true, it needs more comments
16:07:24 <Belugas> on the patch itself, i mean...
16:13:50 <mic> excuse me, may i ask a question?
16:14:22 <mic> if i have a TileIndex of some station tile, how can i get where it is directed?
16:14:51 <mic> ...where the exit is directed
16:15:09 <peter1138> GetRailStationAxis()
16:15:14 <peter1138> ... in station_map.h
16:20:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
16:23:45 <mic> is it planned to build oilrigs in levels more then 0? or they always will be in sea?
16:26:08 <peter1138> always at sea i think
16:26:19 <peter1138> there might be 'deep water' at some point
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16:35:40 * peter1138 tests SmatZ's patch
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16:41:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10222 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#892]: Only 2 trains could crash at one time as collision checking stopped on the first hit. This could cause desyncs in network games as the collision hash order is not guaranteed. (patch by B. N. Smatz)
16:57:55 <stillunknown> If the train handling functions were to be rewritten, what "style" would be used?
16:58:38 <stillunknown> The same Train_Tick, TrainLocoHandler, TrainController style, or something else altogether?
17:00:42 *** alanin is now known as Alanin
17:01:15 <Maedhros> how would you do it without Train_Tick?
17:01:45 <stillunknown> I would keep train tick, but seperate event and tick driven actions as soon as possible.
17:02:25 <stillunknown> Although i do not know if much is too be gained from that.
17:04:17 <stillunknown> I just want to hear people thoughts, before i even try.
17:05:28 <peter1138> what would you separate out?
17:06:44 * Belugas is thinkingof hot black coffee pooring in its mug
17:07:17 <peter1138> then you'll separate the coffee from the mug by pouring it into yourself?
17:07:48 <stillunknown> peter1138: I can't explain very well at this point, it's just that the combination of TrainLocoHandler and TrainController seems a bit strange.
17:09:00 <stillunknown> It would mostly be an attempt to move some stuff off the tick based system.
17:09:29 <stillunknown> And seeing if sanity improves by redoing those functions.
17:10:13 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
17:12:10 <stillunknown> So if anyone has any brilliant ideas, pm them to me as i'll be gone soon.
17:12:36 <peter1138> i've got a BRILLIANT idea
17:12:47 <peter1138> and i'm going to execute it right now
17:13:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10223 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Fix r10211: GCF_INIT_ONLY flag was never cleared
17:19:03 <pyrotechnick> is Ludvig Strigeus here?
17:20:13 <Wolf01> what do you think about a sort of animation of the brick-terrain when it gets cleared? like "fully brown-ish without studs>brown with some studs>green with some studs>normal"
17:24:42 <Thomas[NL]> now openttd check for a openttd.cfg from where the game is opened, isn't it better if it checks for a openttd.cfg in the directory of the executable?
17:25:31 <Thomas[NL]> Wolf01, I think going suddenly from totally brown to green is now going to work very well
17:26:46 <Wolf01> ok, now i have all the 4 side slopes and the plain tile
17:26:55 <Wolf01> i only need the pngcodec
17:26:56 <Rubidium> Thomas[NL]: it does, if it cannot find openttd.cfg in the working directory and your home directory
17:27:16 *** Nickman is now known as Nickman^Away
17:28:03 <Thomas[NL]> when is checking the working directory useful?
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17:28:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10224 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#891]: the town road belongs to didn't get set properly when a town builds road over tram bits.
17:29:34 <Hendikins> ottd is one of my favourite time killers when I'm stuck in business class on a flight to somewhere :)
17:32:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10225 /trunk/src/blitter/ (32bpp_base.hpp 32bpp_simple.cpp): -Codechange: move common Colour routines for 32bpp to the base class (and nick it colour, not color)
17:32:17 <Rubidium> so you can have multiple testing "directories" using the same binary
17:33:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10226 /trunk/src/ (3 files):
17:33:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Add support for newindustry tiles drawing.
17:33:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Heavily based on Maedhros's newhouses implementation
17:34:31 <Belugas> a few thousand left...
17:35:29 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2269
17:35:40 <Wolf01> then, what do you think about that little preview?
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17:37:42 <skidd13> Wolf01: looks nice... Aside will it be 32 or 8bit? Cause brickland could be 8bit due its color scheme
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17:39:43 <Wolf01> mirc is a little stupid today
17:40:28 * skidd13 repeats Wolf01: looks nice... Aside will it be 32 or 8bit? Cause brickland could be 8bit due its color scheme
17:41:03 <Wolf01> and i answered "is 32bpp"
17:41:15 <helb> Its planned as toyland replacement, right?
17:41:30 <Wolf01> but seem that mirc disconnects about 30 seconds before it tell me it
17:41:57 <skidd13> Wolf01: Cause of nfo or the lack of colors?
17:43:22 *** Nickman^Away is now known as Nickman
17:43:22 <Wolf01> maybe one day we can use our own nfo file to read the actioncodes without encoding all to a single grf
17:43:33 *** Nickman is now known as Nickman^Away
17:43:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10227 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Add: added 32bpp-anim blitter, a 32bpp blitter that does palette animation (at the cost of an animation-buffer to keep track of the 'm'-channel of all sprites)
17:45:39 <TrueBrain> now you guys should be all happy and shit
17:46:34 <boekabart> TrueBrain: you made that just now?
17:50:17 <Belugas> skidd13 : i think the NOT_REACHED should be placed at the top
17:50:24 <Belugas> not sure... but i do thnk
17:50:38 <Belugas> ORDER_WIDGET_MULTI_BTN_TWO:
17:51:56 <Belugas> nice use of SetWindowWidgetsDisabledState :D
17:54:45 <mic> maybe somebody can help: i used GetRailStationTrack and GetRailStationAxis to existing station's cell, but they always returns 0 :(
17:55:17 <skidd13> Belugas: thanks for overview
17:55:49 <mic> station type is STATION_RAIL
17:55:50 <Belugas> np. But don't ask for functionnality, sorry, work@work... lunch time is over by now :(
17:55:55 <Rubidium> TRACK_X and AXIS_X are 0
17:58:33 <mic> tested only on 1-axised stations )
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18:03:22 <pyrotechnick> ^?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
18:06:04 *** tokai|ni has joined #openttd
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18:19:01 <Nickman> So Wolf01, how are the bricks coming? ;)
18:28:38 <Wolf01> i have some alignment troubles, but i think i can manage it
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18:40:07 <Belugas> Wolf01, it looks nice
18:40:25 <Belugas> it must be so different than coding :D
18:40:47 <Wolf01> yes i needed a pause :D
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18:56:41 <Eddi|zuHause> omg. they killed peter...
19:04:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10228 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#894]: why MSVC must always bitch about stuff?
19:05:04 <dihedral> where can i find a lit of languages along with their value? (reagarding the server_lang)
19:06:01 <Rubidium> src/network/network.h ?
19:06:11 <dihedral> yeah - why is it i never think of those things
19:06:26 <Rubidium> because grep is "difficult"?
19:07:36 <dihedral> na - network.h is nicer :-P
19:09:06 <glx> dihedral: settings.cpp has the "names" for cfg :)
19:09:19 *** boekabar1 has joined #openttd
19:09:33 <dihedral> makes sense does it not?
19:10:01 <glx> yep, dunno if these values are on the wiki though
19:10:39 *** Desolator has joined #openttd
19:10:50 <dihedral> well - the wiki aint as up 2 date as the code :-P
19:12:24 <Eddi|zuHause> well - update it :)
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19:41:34 <nairan> umm for the non working grfs is the sign now wrong
19:41:50 <nairan> the inner part is black instead of white with a ! in it
19:45:26 <dihedral> why is heightmap.h included twice in landscape.cpp?
19:46:53 <peter1138> should to keep you on your toes
19:49:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10229 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Cleanup: removed duplicate include (dihedral)
19:50:17 <dihedral> glx: while you are at it
19:50:27 <dihedral> you can do the same for /brances/0.5
19:50:42 <glx> will be done with backports :)
19:54:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
19:57:34 <glx> yes why not (landscape.c has the duplicate include too)
19:59:00 <Rubidium> it's not like it's very important; about as important as adding comments and we don't backport them either
20:00:07 <glx> right, but it's not a big thing
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20:43:11 <Wolf01> yeah, i like the picture-story he made :D
20:46:04 <peter1138> skidd13: any similarity to a feature known as 'autoslope' in ttdpatch is purely...
20:46:31 <Wolf01> yes, that is build under slopes :P
20:47:27 <Wolf01> i need to draw the last 4 tiles to finish the normal terrain :D
20:47:55 <skidd13> I never played patch seriously... I heard only about autoslope... That's why I'm asking. ;)
20:50:43 <Wolf01> Belugas, they are talking too much...
20:53:06 <peter1138> it's not real anyway :)
20:53:20 <Belugas> no kidding... he faked it??
20:53:43 <Rubidium> he faked it by using foundations
20:54:05 <Rubidium> it's not as the stuff in the old map branch (can't have foundations of 2 or more heightlevels)
20:54:41 <peter1138> the old map branch did that? hmm
20:54:43 <Belugas> can we resurect it somehow?
20:54:53 <Belugas> yes, i still have some screenies somewhere
20:54:59 <peter1138> easy. drop all work on trunk since ;)
20:55:05 <Rubidium> peter1138: yes, it did, though drawing wasn't "fixed"
20:55:43 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2290
20:55:46 <skidd13> "Belugas: can we resurect it somehow? " --- I'd say svn co -r xxx LOL
20:56:32 <Belugas> a tiny way more complicated then that, i'm afraid :D
20:56:35 * Wolf01 wonders that seem strange MB and his minions did not already posted on my topic about the brickland set... to ask why i decided to make it 32bpp instead of grf
20:58:05 <Belugas> simple answer : "because WE can"
20:58:38 <peter1138> someone should teach the AI about build-on-slopes
20:59:00 <Belugas> damn... can't find those screenies
21:00:43 <Belugas> Rubidium, could it be you who gave me those screenies? I kinda remember we discussed it right after the tfc_newmap ending
21:01:16 <Rubidium> ah well, lets checkout and see whether it (still) compiles
21:02:26 <Rubidium> ooh, major compiler errors ;)
21:05:03 <Belugas> i remember it did not compiled with MSVC. i tried to fix it. Tron was puzzled :)
21:05:24 <Belugas> i wanted the cliffs in
21:06:48 <Rubidium> it's good it isn't compiled with -Werror ;)
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21:12:37 <Rubidium> "some" drawing glitches remained
21:14:26 <Belugas> gaaa... it's awfully late...
21:15:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10230 /trunk/src/ (clear_cmd.cpp lang/english.txt water_map.h): -Fix [FS#594]: terraforming wipes out canals. Now you always have to remove the canal before terraforming, instead of "just" removing the canal.
21:18:24 *** raimar3 has joined #openttd
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21:21:21 <skidd13> I get damned warnings with g++-4.2:
21:21:21 <skidd13> src/misc/blob.hpp:240: Warnung: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X - c) >= X is always true
21:23:34 <Eddi|zuHause> we recently discussed that it's probably a g++ bug
21:24:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's complaining about an internal optimisation
21:34:28 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
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21:37:30 <skidd13> What about args for configure to select -O3 and -Os?
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21:49:11 <peter1138> yeah, but... in game? ;)
21:49:42 <peter1138> i do think athanasios is 'funny' though...
21:49:50 <peter1138> " I am against any idea of replacing or worse removing toyland in OpenTTD"
21:49:54 <Wolf01> i hope they align right in game, because i tried to put them close and seem so
21:50:20 <peter1138> as if your package is automatically going to be put into trunk to replace toyland...
21:51:10 <Wolf01> ...since now to 5 years :P
22:06:41 *** [BiG^BrotheR] has joined #openttd
22:11:15 <Nickman> We wan't bricks Wolf01.... :(
22:12:11 <Nickman> peter1138, you think you can cut those tiles to see how they look ingame? :D
22:14:05 <Rubidium> Nickman: don't expect a swift reply from peter1138; he also went to bed a few minutes ago
22:14:40 <Nickman> well, I'll be off to bed soon... :D
22:16:21 <Zr40> Rubidium, got a few minutes? :)
22:26:26 <Smoovious> Rubidium... bah... that figures... re:FS895... my dumb ass totally missed that. :( sorry for the waste of time
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22:37:56 <dihedral> i think i shall get to bed
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22:39:19 <dihedral> have a nice evening guys
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22:41:48 <pyrotechnick> has anyone noticed that sometimes you get a news report like "supply problems cause [nothing] to announce immediate closure"
22:42:27 <pyrotechnick> but othertimes the industry is still there and its name gets put into the news report
22:45:02 <pyrotechnick> i imagine its because of lag in the message system, by the time its had a change to pop up as a news report the industry is already gone
22:45:17 <pyrotechnick> and so there is no industry to get a name from, right>?
22:51:03 <pyrotechnick> i guess its pretty hard to fix then
22:51:22 <pyrotechnick> because it would mean copying the industry name somewhere for later
22:51:57 <pyrotechnick> unless when industries shutdown, they can still exist
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23:06:50 <pyrotechnick> with the airport selection dialogue, sometimes all the accepted cargo rates doesnt fit in the window
23:10:42 <SmatZ> in the "available road vehicles list" trams are not shown ... but in the "available trains" are shown all trains - normal, monorail, maglev
23:11:27 <SmatZ> it is probably correct, but unexpected for me :)
23:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> light railways that usually have their tracks laid on roads
23:13:46 <pyrotechnick> but how do u make them?
23:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause> use the nightly and a tram grf
23:14:14 <pyrotechnick> that is freaking awesome
23:14:34 <_42_> Sacro, if you can't see Bjarni here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^
23:14:38 <SmatZ> it is under the Build road menu - popup menu like Railway / Monorail / Maglev
23:14:47 <pyrotechnick> anything i need to look out for in the nightlies?
23:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> there are lots of new features
23:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> starting with bridges over everything
23:16:38 <Sacro> bridges over newhouseS?
23:16:45 <pyrotechnick> yes thats what he said
23:16:49 <pyrotechnick> not old houses just new ones
23:16:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not what i meant :p
23:17:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a weird ambiguousity (is that a word?)
23:18:03 <SmatZ> I don't know if it is a word, but I understad what you said :)
23:19:09 <Bjarni> there is a £50 fine for highlighting me without reason
23:19:29 <Sacro> you just highlighted me for a slap
23:19:36 <Sacro> i consider that worthy of a £100 fine
23:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> you're fine people alright :p
23:20:20 <pyrotechnick> wats #openttd.wt2
23:20:35 <_42_> Sacro, Bjarni (~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 6 seconds ago (19.06. 23:20) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 3 hours 25 minutes there.
23:20:42 <Sacro> now he gets a message on his return :p
23:20:55 <pyrotechnick> what is #openttd.wt2
23:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you are truely evil, Sacro ... NOT! :p
23:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> pyrotechnick: a subchannel for web translator 2
23:23:59 <pyrotechnick> hey, algorithmatically, what makes a city grow?
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23:28:16 <Phazorx> hmm... global grf path still doesnt work
23:28:29 <Phazorx> i can see the fles but ottd fails to load them :/
23:31:12 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
23:33:34 <glx> of course it should be in a data subdir
23:34:30 <Phazorx> C:\GAMES\OTTD>ls "C:\Documents and Settings\Pavel\My Documents\OpenTTD\data\planesetw_459.grf" -la
23:34:30 <Phazorx> -rw-rw-rw- 1 user group 133649 May 29 2005 C:\Documents and Settings\Pavel\My Documents\OpenTTD\data\planesetw_459.grf
23:36:41 <Phazorx> the are in per build folders
23:37:03 <glx> trg*.grf can be in the global one :)
23:37:06 <Phazorx> but i dont know which default ones are openttds
23:37:18 <Phazorx> i'll move them once it works
23:37:22 <pyrotechnick> for some retarded reason which i find awesome, theres this one town in my game with like 10000 ppl in it while all the rest are more like 600
23:37:46 <glx> can you see it in newgrf add window?
23:38:37 <Phazorx> now it doesnt start :/
23:39:10 <Phazorx> and i am using stock nighty, not the one i compiled
23:42:17 <Phazorx> it works if i move base grfs into /data of common folder
23:46:57 <Phazorx> i dont get it however
23:47:14 <glx> remove openttd.cfg in global may help
23:48:41 <Phazorx> i dont have any cfg there
continue to next day ⏵
