IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-06-18
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00:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i have seen that location before...
00:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure it's the very same spot, just different trains
00:59:37 <Digitalfox> wow!! How may wagons caa train have, that cargo looks to 30 or more?? :\
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01:54:44 <Ailure> I just love being a smartass
01:55:34 <Ailure> haha that reminds me about that picture on the ttdpatch page showing off mammoth trains somehow :p
01:55:46 <Ailure> from back when it was a new featuer
01:55:51 <Ailure> which is for a quite long time ago now
02:04:13 <TinoDidriksen> Hmm, Transport Tycoon Biblical Edition..."Who can build the best donkey cart service in the Holy Land"
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03:03:59 <Ailure> 19th century transport would be fun to try
03:04:04 <Ailure> but anything earlier would be silly
03:04:19 <Ailure> considering the scale of the game anyway
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05:19:22 <Giddorah> G'morning everyone :)
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05:51:10 <|Gekkko|> i just got the latest nightly
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08:17:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10196 /trunk/src/lang/ (japanese.txt slovenian.txt):
08:17:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-18 10:15:44
08:17:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: japanese - 2 fixed by ickoonite (2)
08:17:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovenian - 3 fixed by Necrolyte (3)
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10:27:44 <TrueBrain> you guys are boring!
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10:31:07 <Gekko> I like to fly planes upside down
10:31:12 <Rubidium> Gekko: trams are not enabled when you don't have a newgrf that adds trams
10:31:21 <Gekko> Rubidium: I relised that :)
10:31:28 <Gekko> wow nice typo I have there
10:42:12 <eekee> Can you make a truck with a null cargo, but refittable? I mean, could I make a GRF with chassis cab trucks refittable to carry wood / ore / coal/ etc?
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10:48:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10197 /trunk/src/ (45 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: replace int32 with CommandCost where appropriate.
10:48:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> i see no reason why it shouldn't be
10:50:04 <Gekko> eekee: you could make them carry 2 passengers initially
10:50:15 <Gekko> if people actually use it, they're idiots :)
10:50:34 <Gekko> that sounds really cool though
10:51:02 <Gekko> is there still a max. limit of vehicles that can be added to TTD?
10:51:09 <eekee> I'm thinking of realism, & also freeing up road vehicle ID #s
10:51:11 <Gekko> because that could be a way to minimize that problem.
10:51:24 <Gekko> so you are on the same page as me :D
10:51:36 <eekee> yep hehe, you can't actually /add/ any, only reuse numbers.
10:51:39 <Gekko> goods truck could also be a food truck
10:52:23 <eekee> Yeah & you can use 2nd company color to distinguish them. UKRS does that with it's train trucks
10:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, like the wagons in the DBSet, they can be refitted to a lot of stuff
10:52:58 <Gekko> Iron Ore and Steel in one truck
10:53:14 <Gekko> Paper rolls in an oil tanker? xD
10:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> that wouldn't work very well...
10:53:26 <Gekko> mail truck and a paper truck?
10:53:55 <eekee> paper trucks in TTD are flat bed, so they go with steel, wood, etc
10:54:11 <Gekko> wouldnt the paper blow away?
10:54:28 <eekee> no it's on tonne+ reels :D
10:54:55 <Gekko> I <3 Purno's 2cc railset
10:54:58 <Gekko> which hasnt been released yet
10:55:24 <eekee> ever visited a printing factory IRL? A real production one, not a museum keeping little old flatbed presses running
10:55:55 <eekee> The paper reels an be 1-5 tonnes or more :D
10:55:59 <Gekko> but I'm not quite away alright?
10:56:20 <Gekko> will there ever be a point where more vehicles could be added?
10:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you program it...
10:57:51 <eekee> someone sugested it in this thead in the TTDPatch graphics forums, & I think someone said it would break a lot of stuff. I'm always skeptical of such breakage claims, but they usually mean a lot more work would have to be put in
10:58:55 <Gekko> because you'd have to tell everything that 5 isnt the last number
10:59:12 <Gekko> they'd all be like "BUT ITS BEEN 5 SINCE 1995! I AINT CHANGIN'."
10:59:20 <Gekko> OpenTTD hits it with some trout, it's all good.
11:00:29 <Gekko> 10kb/s breaks my balls.
11:01:58 <eekee> That's in the TTDPatch gfx forum since that's where the thread that gave me the idea was
11:04:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10198 /trunk/src/fileio.h: -Fix (r10194): did not search all search paths.
11:09:18 <Gekko> when do you think it will be nearly complete?
11:09:56 <Purno> the coder will have very little time the coming years
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11:11:08 <eekee> years? New baby? New job?
11:16:01 <Gekko> release the unclean code and allow someone to fix it?
11:16:31 <eekee> It's probably already in an accessable branch isnt' it?
11:17:01 <eekee> Hey does OTTD support new industries? I ask because I loaded up the mars conversion grf & the industries retained the Toyland names and... squeaks... D:
11:17:25 <Rubidium> not yet, but it's under development
11:18:04 <eekee> I can still rename industries & cargos with action 4 can't I?
11:19:00 <Maedhros> cargos yes, industries no
11:27:38 <eekee> Can I restrict the available bridges for each track type, or or change the bridge speed / cost / length settings?
11:28:45 <peter1138> ^^ that's how far i got with documenting my plans for bridges :o
11:30:54 <peter1138> actually i have a little more than that
11:30:56 <peter1138> but only a little;)
11:31:12 <peter1138> but speed, cost & length are adjustable, iirc
11:31:19 <peter1138> track type restriction isn't
11:33:44 <eekee> I'm checking what can be done now, because I'm making a lunar 'climate' & would rather make it & get it out there than wait for new features
11:34:29 <Gekko> I'm out peeps, cya later
11:41:10 <Phazorx> no plains or combustion engine, 1/6th of gravity?
11:41:26 <Phazorx> and ability to throw cargo rather than transporting some tiles away :)
11:41:48 <mikegrb> just don't throw it too hard, might go into orbit
11:42:14 <Phazorx> ... and there is no water too as well as treess
11:42:34 <Phazorx> and instead of nlo crashing/disasters you get lunahod robbing your trains
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11:45:02 <eekee> Phazorx: :D I didn't think of throwing or lunahod, but ya!
11:45:34 <Phazorx> well it will be boring w/o it
11:46:07 <Phazorx> and instead of transmiter tower - appolo program remains and unremovable US banners
11:46:12 <eekee> You want to code the throwing transport then? :D
11:46:26 <Phazorx> actually i'd rather code something stats related
11:46:43 <Phazorx> similar to long forgotten stats patch
11:47:59 <Phazorx> i have a feelign industries will be scarce there tho
11:49:13 <eekee> Phazorx: so should towns.....
11:49:32 <Ailure> imagine the industry chains
11:49:36 <Phazorx> why ? little grays are crawling all other the place there
11:49:41 <Ailure> if you had to include every minor industry in existance
11:49:54 <Phazorx> i can see cheese mine being a part of some chain for sure btw :)
11:50:27 <Phazorx> gotta give props to Mr Jules Verne
11:50:28 <TheJosh> hey i just did a svn update (to 10178) and it wont compile anymore
11:50:48 <Phazorx> heh that answers whether we want to test your patch btw :)
11:51:13 <TheJosh> no it was comipling before the update
11:51:44 <TheJosh> ill test with a vanilla build
11:52:56 <eekee> funny, I thought I grabbed 10179 with svn but it's reading as 10178
11:53:45 <TheJosh> there is a configure option to change that
11:54:23 <TheJosh> now its compiling, but when i go to update the other one again, I get 'inconsistant newlines' so annoying
11:54:33 <TheJosh> ./configure -r i think
11:54:43 <hylje> eekee: if the nightly revision is a commit elsewhere than trunk, trunk gets inconsistent revisions
11:55:10 <TheJosh> all thorough it? its such a pain
11:55:15 <hylje> eekee: compile farm sets the exact revision
11:55:23 <TheJosh> it only happens to my texteff.cpp
11:55:33 <hylje> and local copy gets it from svn, which thinks the trunk's rev is a bit lower
11:56:01 <eekee> hylje: I often play with a friend who compiles fron svn
11:56:26 <TrueBrain> [13:54] <hylje> eekee: if the nightly revision is a commit elsewhere than trunk, trunk gets inconsistent revisions <- what kind of gibberish are you talking?
11:56:58 <eekee> svn-gibberish, I thought
11:57:43 <eekee> Made some sense to me, the svn counting revisions whether or not they're in trunk, but maybe I've only half thought it through
11:58:04 <TrueBrain> svn commits are global, no matter where they go
11:58:11 <TrueBrain> so it happens that 'trunk' skips revisions from time to time
11:58:18 <TrueBrain> but both 10179 and 10178 are in trunk
11:58:39 <TrueBrain> also, the make-system knwos about it, and uses the last revision that was a commit to the trunk
11:58:58 <eekee> Ah yes, what I thought was happening
11:58:59 <hylje> it appears make uses the revision as in svn info
11:59:05 <TrueBrain> (say, revision 1 and 3 are in trunk, but 2 and 4 are not, and you do a checkout, you get a compile with revision 3)
11:59:28 <eekee> yeah that's what I understood hylje's statement to mean
11:59:40 <TrueBrain> it has little to do with 'nightly revision' :s
12:00:12 <hylje> TrueBrain: the revision that is picked in compile-farm
12:00:22 <TrueBrain> hylje: is always the latest version commited to the trunk
12:00:29 <TrueBrain> which is always the version you get when you do a checkout at the same time
12:02:09 <TrueBrain> in other words: if you tihnk you need to change the revision number manually, you did something wrong.
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12:03:24 <hylje> sometimes when i update to a revision (svn up), the default configure's perceived revision is not the same as the revision given to svn up
12:03:41 <eekee> heh, if you grab the source tarball from the nightlies page you have to set the revision manually. Why is that?
12:03:44 <TrueBrain> if you do not override the revision via configure, the make system always uses the right revision
12:03:55 <TrueBrain> eekee: as it isn't a SVN checkout ;)
12:04:05 <TrueBrain> hmm, we might be able to fix that though...
12:04:26 <TrueBrain> hmm, good one eekee
12:04:35 <peter1138> TrueBrain: then when somebody modifies it it won't show as M
12:04:43 <TrueBrain> peter1138: very true
12:04:53 <TrueBrain> so we might just want to postfix it with S or something
12:04:56 <TrueBrain> as in: source-tarball
12:05:10 <TrueBrain> at least gives a tiny bit more info
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12:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> it also won't show M if they force the revision...
12:09:00 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: but in that case they are informed about the risk they are taking
12:09:06 <TrueBrain> we can only advise people, never disallow it
12:09:25 <TrueBrain> (the nature of Open Source ;))
12:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> for that case, you could create a checksum over all source files... if it does not match, add an M
12:18:00 <Smoovious> as long as we're talking revisions... whenever I compiled with vc2005, via svn, althought I haven't tried to compile in the past month, it always came up norev000... where would I set the rev?
12:29:09 <eekee> that's odd... you know rail & monorail have sprites of just the track in \ / | _ directions? Where's the equivalent maglev junctions?
12:29:46 <Maedhros> no, just hard to see
12:29:54 <Maedhros> most of the maglev track is actually the ground tile
12:30:23 <Maedhros> the track itself is the black bars that go across the grey bit
12:31:42 <eekee> I can't even find sprites for the black bars. *looks harder*
12:40:04 <eekee> Ahuh! I think I have them
12:41:32 <eekee> yep: sprites 1169-1173 in trg1r
12:43:08 <eekee> ok brain derailed. I don't need the bars I need the track. *cuts out*
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12:54:22 * eekee wonders whether to keep the ditches either side of maglev track or just lay the cut-out tracks on flat terrain for a slightly neater look
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13:30:24 <Gekko> whats new coming to openttd
13:32:30 <Nickman> no, real naked girls ;)
13:32:37 <dihedral> does autoclean_protected = 0 no protected companies get ignored, or their pass gets cleared right away?
13:37:59 <SmatZ> nevermind, sometimes I try to be funny :(
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13:41:24 <Gekko> why dont we turn boat #'ds into trains?
13:42:18 <Gekko> it got hit by a train twice >.>
13:45:39 <eekee> trams you have to wait for the crashed one to go before letting it's clone leave the depot
13:46:48 <eekee> otherwise the clone will wait behind the crashed one until it clears... and then move onto the tracks regardless of whether there's a train on them or not!
13:47:37 <Gekko> take that serbian tram!
13:48:17 <Gekko> serbian angers the blood
13:48:35 <Gekko> slavic anglicised *shivers*
13:49:32 <eekee> there's a german set, and a UK set under construction
13:50:16 <Gekko> how hard is it to make a grf?
13:50:46 <Gekko> i'd make an aussie tram set if itt was ewasy
13:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's a tutorial on the ttdpatch wiki
13:52:04 <Gekko> that wasnt my question.
13:52:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is usually not hard to follow a tutorial :p
13:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> and no, it is not an answer to your question, but a hint on how you can answer it yourself...
13:54:41 <eekee> I followed that tutorial but used data from the Serbian set instead of the original, & made a couple other changes, came up with a refittable tram fairly easily. Took me time, & double-checking, but it wasn't hard as such
13:55:56 <Gekko> my trams wil be green with the company stripe with medfium windows
13:56:08 <eekee> afternoon & evening, for one tram. This is starting from knowing nothing about trams
13:57:41 <Gekko> time to learn xara, mtpaint & gimp
14:00:43 <eekee> I'm using gimp, never even heard of the other 2.
14:01:46 <eekee> I don't think gimp's ideal for paletized art, but I don't know if pain programs that are would be any good for the saturation & contrast changes I'm making
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14:10:43 <eekee> Gekko: Does it have layers? Because they're, like, my modus operandii
14:22:53 <eekee> ere, anybody know if 1/6th gravity would mean 1/6th the tractive effort, for ordinary rail locos?
14:25:35 <Phazorx> eekee: steem and disel wont work there btw
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14:25:54 <eekee> Phazorx: you don't say? :)
14:25:57 <Phazorx> and yes traction will be proportionaly smaller since friction is based on weight not mass
14:26:15 <Phazorx> eekee: i meant they should not :)
14:26:46 <eekee> muclear-powered steam engine.....
14:27:02 <XeryusTC> Phazorx: most friction comes from air friction, not roll friction
14:27:05 <Phazorx> train crash would mean end of game tho
14:27:09 <XeryusTC> especially on the higher speeds
14:27:18 <Phazorx> XeryusTC: eh... traction effort?
14:27:36 <eekee> XeryusTC: if it wasn't for roll friction, the train couldn't flipping start moving :D
14:27:46 <Phazorx> and btw - another bonus
14:27:47 <eekee> it's /that/ friction we're talking about
14:28:11 <Gekko> eekee: put a tr_ain in a vacuum
14:28:15 <Phazorx> i meant that for XeryusTC as responce to his comment
14:28:44 <Phazorx> there will be tons of air like friction there
14:29:10 <eekee> hmm, train vibration will kick up a bit....
14:29:29 <Phazorx> so nice 'steam smoke' effect can be put to use even on mlevs
14:30:03 <eekee> do you think a mag-lev will kick up much? I'm thinking mag-levs will be used a lot since the lift is cheaper & ordinary rails so much less effective
14:30:09 <Gekko> trains to mars from earth lool.
14:30:36 <Phazorx> well ground vibration will raise dust
14:30:45 <Phazorx> wont matter what kind of poer source they use
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14:32:02 <Phazorx> so theoretically there will be less physical dislocation of track in case of mlev
14:32:03 <eekee> yeah, but it's kept up & pulled along by magnets in the track as well as the train.
14:32:16 <eekee> Yeah, a little, but not much.
14:32:43 <Phazorx> problem is - 1/6 of gravity means dust coulds hang for hours/days
14:33:58 <Phazorx> accelerating up will be same or harder issue, but maintaining sped will be 6 times easier
14:35:55 <eekee> Will have to limit maglevs to below the lunar escape velocity.... actually no, we won't! The track could pull down as easily as up
14:36:21 <eekee> (remember it pulls left-right automatically in a self-correcting way too)
14:37:07 <Phazorx> it will pull track as much up as train down
14:37:34 <SmatZ> you dont need planes, you can just throw the goods from one place to another
14:37:55 <Phazorx> and given amount of trains coopers games have - with some luck and resonance effect we can deorbit the moon :)
14:38:29 <Phazorx> SmatZ: from and throw path - no doubt
14:38:43 <Phazorx> however no one canceled mass along with gravity
14:38:56 <Phazorx> meaning goods will be a bit.... damaged on arrival
14:39:01 <Phazorx> desipte ease of takeoff :)
14:39:37 <Gekko> Phazorx: no American spelling.
14:39:44 <eekee> ooh... mag-lev accellerator launched 'planes'
14:40:05 <eekee> The americans have sane spelling lol
14:40:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r10199 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp: -Fix [FS#884, YAPF]: 'target_seen' flag that is set prematurely in some cases (1 tile long cached segment followed by target station) stops on assert (immeR)
14:40:43 <Phazorx> sorry, lack of sleep affects my brainpowered spellchecker
14:40:55 <Phazorx> and i rarely bother to correct mistakes anyway
14:40:57 * eekee is British, has to put up with arcane wierdness introduced by a franglophillic royalty over the last few hundreds of years
14:41:31 * Gekko is Australian, UK's alien offspring.
14:41:47 * Phazorx has excuse of being russian, and english being 3rd language :o)
14:43:07 <eekee> Oh my nephews became Australian citizens recently. Their dad was born there, but his family moved away when he was like, 1 month old, lol
14:44:28 <Gekko> i was 3 when ttd came out >.>
14:44:40 <Gekko> 8 when i played dos version
14:45:19 * eekee guesses no, or not for long <_<;
14:46:07 <eekee> Arctic.. tropical... didn't like temperate so much, the green gets on my nerves after a bit
14:46:30 <eekee> or used to, I've got hardened to such things, lol
14:47:22 <Phazorx> stolen trees... thats's a one big reason to play temperate
14:50:07 <eekee> makes me feel a bit... sorta ill, especially in the shade that TTD temperate uses
14:51:48 <eekee> Tropical's not so bad, but I still find I much prefer to look at the brown areas
14:54:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> i hate the brown "grass" of arctic...
14:55:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think we should get the alpine set supported...
14:55:58 <eekee> mmm, I find it a bit icky too
14:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think it requires newindustries
14:58:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> and probably other stuff like varying snowline is not implemented
15:00:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> cool... but it's just a minor feature :)
15:00:32 <peter1138> yeah, and another one we stole ;p
15:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> why invent new features if there are still so many to steal :p
15:05:35 * eekee goes to research lunar dust
15:06:23 <eekee> oh btw, I think we should steal ttdpatch features :) I'm gettign jealous of their grf lol!
15:08:11 <Belugas> not steal. Honnour their work by implementing it.
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15:13:34 <skidd13> Is newgrf action5 type 09 supported?
15:13:53 <skidd13> aka one way road arrows?
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16:03:20 <Digitalfox> I'm starting a new game and some settings from 10199 are new to me, since I've been playing a savegame from the 95** revision and didn't update it since newgrf patch change ( caused me problems ).. What does "smooth viewport scrolling" does? Searched the wiki but it's not there yet..
16:05:00 <Digitalfox> TrueBrain: My idea was also to put the description on wiki, since it's not there :)
16:05:15 <TrueBrain> then ask peter1138 :)
16:05:25 <Digitalfox> But i'll try and see if i can understand what it does ;)
16:05:36 <TrueBrain> peter1138 is all knowing :)
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16:09:53 <Digitalfox> What is a good default service interval for aircraft when breakdown are disabled and my only care is accidents with aircraft?
16:10:53 <peter1138> no servicing is necessary if breakdowns are disabled
16:11:20 <izhirahider> Digitalfox, "smooth viewport scrolling": "deslocamento suave do ecrã quando usas o rato"
16:11:28 <izhirahider> now try to cramp that up into a translation, impossible
16:11:39 <Digitalfox> izhirahider: Oh ok :) Obrigado..
16:15:05 <elmex> wow. i'm gone for one week and there is some weird bi-directional pbs floating around the wiki
16:15:35 <TrueBrain> the wiki has many things
16:15:41 <TrueBrain> is not really related to your not being here :)
16:20:40 <Digitalfox> but peter1138, aircraft reliability doesn't influence accidents?? I thought so... :\
16:21:02 <Digitalfox> I thought the lower more accidents would occur.
16:22:54 <peter1138> nope, it's just random
16:23:25 <Digitalfox> oh ok, thanks for explaining :)
16:25:07 <Smoovious> and if breakdown are diabled, also look to see if servicing is also disabled
16:26:03 <peter1138> that's a patch option, yeah
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16:35:25 <stillunknown> What was the shortcut for transparency options?
16:43:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10200 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: add "shortcut" for !CmdFailed (CmdSucceeded).
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16:44:30 <skidd13> Do one way arrows affect trams?
16:45:22 *** BobingAbout has left #openttd
16:46:43 <stillunknown> Or just happens to be that way.
16:46:43 <skidd13> I wonderd cause arrows on rail crossings are permitted but on tram crossings allowed.
16:47:06 <stillunknown> permitted == allowed
16:47:21 <stillunknown> You're missing a not somewhere ;-)
16:47:27 <skidd13> ups. permitted -> not allowed
16:48:20 <Maedhros> they're ignored by design
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16:56:28 <Wolf01> ok, again at work at brickland!
16:59:03 <peter1138> Wolf01's 32bpp toyland replacement
17:01:24 <stillunknown> But toyland is already perfect.
17:01:47 <stillunknown> Perfectly broken that is ;-)
17:01:54 <peter1138> Wolf01's new 32bpp landscape
17:02:18 <Wolf01> and houses and vehicles...
17:09:36 <TrueBrain> I wonder if he can get it finished, would be fun :)
17:13:17 <Wolf01> eh, if i can finish the landscape i think i can finish the whole project
17:13:23 <Wolf01> doesn't matter how much time
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17:19:45 <dihedral> TrueBrain: nearly got the openttdlib php class ready
17:20:20 <dihedral> a class to query your server and get back stats, like the masterserver does
17:20:33 <dihedral> i.e. for your own website
17:21:26 * Rubidium is always going to like the C++ variant because that has a maintainability cost of about 0 :)
17:22:15 * dihedral does not know c++ to be pleasing Rubidium in such a way :-P
17:23:01 <dihedral> and as it was php before it was given to me, i am mainly doing a tidy up job
17:23:29 <dihedral> besides it had already been removed from svn when i started working on it
17:24:16 <dihedral> + a c++ variant could be a little more tricky to include in webpages :-P
17:26:13 <Rubidium> dihedral: true, but the C++ has free maintainability; *if* you change the network game server querying protocol, the C++ variant only needs a svn up && make
17:26:30 <TrueBrain> but the need for a PHP lib is understandable
17:26:38 <TrueBrain> as not everyone can run a C++ application on his webhost ;)
17:27:17 <Rubidium> I've got nothing against the phplib, it's just that I like the C++ one because of maintainability
17:27:19 <hylje> if people ran python on their webhosts you could have c++ libs for them
17:28:33 <Sacro> how do you stop nightlies from using My Documents?
17:29:08 <glx> Sacro: you get the next nightly :)
17:29:33 <Sacro> and can i use 32bpp graphics now?
17:30:13 <Sacro> and how do i add a load of grfs in1 go...
17:36:19 <stillunknown> sacro: yes and not sure if that's possible yet
17:39:56 <peter1138> 1) yes, 2) edit yer config ;)
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17:58:48 <Wolf01> omg... Ubuntu passed the Windows Genuine Advantage
18:02:57 <Rubidium> looks like a newgrf bug
18:03:37 <Digitalfox> That screenshot is from build r10199..
18:04:00 <Sacro> Wolf01: i passed WGA in ArchLinux months ago
18:04:11 <Digitalfox> Rubidium: Should i post at Flyspray?
18:04:42 <peter1138> test it in ttdpatch
18:04:51 <peter1138> if it still does it, bug the author :)
18:05:26 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: a bug in the newgrf
18:05:46 <Rubidium> but, test in ttdp to be sure
18:06:24 <Digitalfox> I don't have a patch installation, so i will try to ask somebody :)
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18:16:44 <Wolf01> is better to have corner tiles with the diagonal side cut or stepped?
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18:31:57 <hylje> d'ya think fallout3 engine allows for trains?
18:33:09 <|Jeroen|> when will the copy and past thingy be included in trunk ?
18:33:28 <Smoovious> when people stop pestering about it? :P
18:35:09 <Biff> what copy and paste thingy?
18:36:25 <|Jeroen|> the one that is in miniin
18:37:01 <|Jeroen|> real easy to re use crossings and stuff
18:37:17 <Digitalfox> Well i just tested the new terrain grf with the last patch nightly and the bug is there also, so is a problem from the grf
18:39:42 <Belugas> i kinda remember the copy/paste was not accepted because it makes the game to easy. But... maybe opinions have changed since then.
18:40:01 <Belugas> I will not use it myself, for the record...
18:40:30 <eekee> I never make the same junction twice anyway, unless it's =X=
18:41:24 <peter1138> was it actually copy & paste or just copy-this-bit-to-here?
18:42:48 <Belugas> iirc, the whole area is copied. can even be saved
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18:45:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10201 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Replace Blitter::SetHorizontalLine with Blitter::DrawRect, as the former was only used by the rectangle drawing code anyway. This lets us draw rectangles in one go.
18:47:12 <Nickman> yeah Wolf01, the bottem one
18:52:28 <Bjarni> ohh, a toyland that's actually a toyland :)
18:53:47 <Smoovious> Toys-R-Us toys, or Helga's House of Pain toys?
18:57:15 * eekee doesn't want to /imagine/ a Helga's House of Pain grf XD;
18:57:45 <eekee> I have firends who are into that kinda stuff. Scares me, lol
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19:05:53 <Smoovious> like... the gas ships, with the spherical tanks on it... a repaint would be perfect for them shipping silicone to breast implant factories... make them look like breasts with a nipple on top
19:09:52 <peter1138> there are children here you know
19:10:50 <Bjarni> breasts, boobs and similar words are too strong for Sacro, you know
19:11:01 <hylje> its not like children have not seen nipples
19:11:10 <hylje> chances are they have used them too
19:11:49 <Bjarni> chances are that children has seen nipples in real life more recently than some people in here :P
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19:26:02 <Wolf01> is somewhere a list of sprites with their number?
19:26:18 <peter1138> decode the trg files
19:26:45 <peter1138> in the big pcx with the sprites there are also numbers next to each sprite
19:26:49 <Wolf01> that's what i'm trying to dodge ;)
19:27:16 <TrueBrain> I am working on a website which lists them all
19:27:19 <TrueBrain> only takes a bit of time
19:28:16 <TrueBrain> there are 8060 images (including the grfs distributed with OpenTTD)
19:30:38 <Nickman> how are things coming TrueBrain? :)
19:31:50 <stillunknown> TrueBrain: exams?
19:32:34 <TrueBrain> more the problem is my mood :)
19:32:45 <TrueBrain> too much in love, too much already packing my shit to go on a holiday
19:33:18 <stillunknown> I hope you get well soon.
19:33:34 <TrueBrain> perfectly well, but tnx :)
19:34:25 <peter1138> then you'll get over it ;)
19:34:39 <eekee> Sacro: in the Mars conversion set extra, yeah
19:34:59 <peter1138> did george do that set by any chance?
19:37:35 <Wolf01> ok, if now i want to see how my graphics look ingame, what i must do?
19:37:49 <TrueBrain> read docs/32bpp.txt most likely
19:37:50 <peter1138> read the documentation ;)
19:37:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10202 /branches/32bpp/: [32bpp] -Remove: removed the 32bpp branch, as it is outdated now (32bpp support is in trunk) Tnx to egladil and all others who worked on this for their hard work, it was priceless!
19:38:30 <UnderBuilder> see you again 32bpp branch :)
19:38:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10203 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: more moving things to blitter-layer: DrawLine
19:39:15 <Wolf01> uhm. i don't have the 32bpp.txt file in the docs folder
19:39:32 <Wolf01> why not include it in nightlies?
19:40:01 <TrueBrain> because someone needs to update the script for it
19:40:06 <TrueBrain> I guess that person is slightly lazy
19:40:54 <Nickman> who is that person? ;)
19:43:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10204 /trunk/Makefile.in: -Fix: copy docs/32bpp.txt at 'make bundle'
19:44:40 <Wolf01> uhm, i made: data\sprites\trgtr\number.png but seem to happen nothing
19:44:56 <TrueBrain> a) did you start the 32bpp blitter?
19:45:00 <TrueBrain> b) did you put in a real number for 'number'?
19:45:12 <Wolf01> maybe i need to start the blitter
19:45:27 <Wolf01> the number i put is the sprite id
19:45:43 <TrueBrain> the sprite number as it comes in the grf I hope :)
19:46:17 <TrueBrain> so < 1194 for toyland :)
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19:53:02 <glx> Wolf01: you set offsets using pngcodec ?
19:54:11 <Wolf01> i only tried if they get loaded
19:54:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10205 /trunk/src/ (37 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: refactor returning of cost, so it can be more easily modified.
19:54:31 <Wolf01> there's a binary of pngcodec?
19:57:49 <peter1138> beware, most image editors will remove the offsets
19:58:00 <peter1138> so if you make a change you'll need to reapply them
19:58:11 <Nickman> so Wolf01, looking good or not those lego blocks? :D
19:58:42 <Wolf01> eh, i'm trying to compile pngcodec, but it exits as soon i start it
19:59:01 <Wolf01> and i need to put a "transparent" color for the sprites
19:59:26 <Nickman> well, if you get it working, be sure to post some screens ;)
20:00:02 <peter1138> Wolf01: it's png, it has an alpha layer, not a transparent colour
20:01:46 <Wolf01> i'm making it with msys
20:02:12 <glx> hmm rename/remove make.bat and retry
20:08:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10206 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: more moving things to blitter-layer: ScrollBuffer
20:09:50 <Wolf01> mmh i can't set the transparency with graphics gale...
20:15:19 <Wolf01> looks cool also without offsets
20:15:27 <Wolf01> at least the plain terrain
20:16:50 <peter1138> add transparency, select area to be transparent, cut it
20:16:59 <peter1138> though that depends on the editor, i suppose
20:17:10 <Wolf01> yes is what i just done with photoshop
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20:21:35 <stillunknown> Is it possible to make catenaries completely invisible?
20:22:31 <ln-> but then birds and insects will hit them.
20:22:50 <AntB> electri-fried birdie....
20:23:06 <Wolf01> what about invisible trees then?
20:23:51 <AntB> floating birds nests, you just gotta hope they don't need to go
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20:27:48 <Wolf01> there is a line to add in trees_cmd.cpp and a variable
20:28:27 <Wolf01> and a patch option if you don't want to use my method to toggle the invisibility directly on the tranparency gui :P
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20:29:16 <boekabart> Eddi|zuHause2: How do you translate 'during' to german?
20:29:24 <boekabart> (or another native German speaker)
20:30:27 <stillunknown> Wolf01: So the default game doesn't offer this option?
20:30:39 <Progman> 'w?hrend', but what is the whole context?
20:31:13 <peter1138> you could just diable elrails
20:31:18 <boekabart> 'the history of Firm X during five generations'
20:32:03 <Progman> 'Die Geschichte von Firm X ?ber f?nf Generationen'
20:32:21 <boekabart> Progman: danke schoen!
20:32:39 <Progman> whatever Firm X is ;)
20:33:02 <boekabart> stimmt.. Krupp in this case
20:35:39 <SmatZ> funny, when OTTD crashes, music keep playing :)
20:35:58 <SmatZ> but often, music doesn't even start - it starts just when I quit the game
20:36:06 <SmatZ> I am using Linux, amd64
20:36:13 <peter1138> yeah, timidity sucks
20:36:30 <peter1138> it's probably waiting for sdl to release /dev/dsp or whatever
20:36:52 <SmatZ> aha, I hoped there is a solution :(
20:36:58 <dihedral> could i pop in a question?
20:37:28 <dihedral> regarding the phplib i am working on
20:37:57 <Rubidium> dihedral: didn't you already presented the question?
20:38:07 <dihedral> sending PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO (2 if i am not mistaken) is not getting processed by 0.5.2 but is by trunk
20:38:25 <SmatZ> Sir, may I have a question, Sir? :-)
20:38:35 <dihedral> and you may call me dihedral
20:39:23 <dihedral> i mean: there is not even a debug message saying the the ip sent in a query
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20:39:49 <Rubidium> 0.5.2 should process them too
20:39:57 <dihedral> that's what i though
20:40:03 <Rubidium> the network protocol hasn't changed since 0.5
20:40:31 <Rubidium> and 0.5 isn't very generous about debug-logging incoming packets
20:40:55 <dihedral> do i have to send additional data, i.e. which client i want info for? as far as i understood the code, it send details regarding all players and clients
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20:43:32 <peter1138> well, set the offsets?
20:43:59 <dihedral> Rubidium: when sending PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_FIND_SERVER every thing works as expected, on both
20:45:02 <dihedral> just not when sending PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO
20:46:07 <Rubidium> yes, and the detail stuff seems to work on 0.5.2 (in game) too
20:46:20 <dihedral> that is what i dont understand
20:47:13 <dihedral> unless it were tcp connections fetching that data in 0.5.2 but i doubt that were the case
20:48:04 <Rubidium> nothing changed since 0.5, except a rewrite that made trunk more strict about the port the queries could be done on
20:48:36 <dihedral> anyhow i can increase verbosity?
20:48:56 <dihedral> oh - i though it only went up to 6
20:48:58 <Rubidium> and that's all you're ever going to get without modifying the code
20:49:11 <dihedral> well ... then i shall modify the code :-D
20:49:41 <Rubidium> trunk gives more info IIRC, but then again that isn't the one causing the trouble
21:00:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10207 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the redundant player_money in favour of the money64, which is now renamed to player_money.
21:01:30 <Rubidium> looks less nasty that the original "background"
21:03:25 <Belugas> if i may, maybe the slope tile could be a little darker, as the illusion of the slope is not really enforced.
21:04:31 <Wolf01> yes, when i'll finish all the slopes i'll add some light effects
21:05:22 <Belugas> and i'm off for the day
21:06:37 <Nickman> Wolf01, there seems to be something wrong with the "buttons" at the outer side of the tiles
21:06:45 <Nickman> ther seem much more compressed then the inner ones
21:06:50 <Nickman> creating some sort of grid
21:07:05 <Nickman> or is this your intention?
21:08:03 <Wolf01> it is not my intention but i can't do it better, at least for now ;)
21:10:38 <Nickman> I think you need to move those outer a bit more to the center, about one pixel or so :D
21:11:34 <stillunknown> Do arctic cities (in the valley) eventually refuse food as they grow?
21:12:10 <Wolf01> i'll continue it tomorrow, now i must have some sleep, night everybody :)
21:14:39 <dihedral> Rubidium: quite odd, my running games dont respond, but a just compiled version did...
21:17:30 <dihedral> i just restarted one of my games, and that now responds...
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21:19:10 <Nickman> how come the "cntr + d" isn't available anymore?
21:19:13 <dihedral> some sort of difference when a game was running for a few days and a just started server?
21:20:34 <skidd13> XeryusTC: I updated the sprited for the US one way. Better?
21:20:57 <XeryusTC> watching anime atm :P
21:21:31 <Rubidium> hmm, probably linux right?
21:21:39 <stillunknown> Nickman: What should that do?
21:21:52 <Nickman> isn't it suposed to double the zoom?
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21:28:01 <Rubidium> and from in-game it did work correctly on the "old" servers
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21:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Nickman> how come the "cntr + d" isn't available anymore? <- it conflicted with the new blitter code
21:32:36 <dihedral> ingame nothing is odd
21:32:46 <Nickman> ah, thought something like that Eddi|zuHause2 ;) thx
21:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> !openttd commit r10121
21:34:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> !openttd commit 10121
21:34:32 <_42_> Commit by truelight :: r10121 /trunk/ (38 files in 6 dirs) (2007-06-12 20:24:12 UTC)
21:34:32 <skidd13> can the default blitter be choosen by configure?
21:34:35 <_42_> -Codechange: split renderer from rest of code; no longer any code directly accesses the video-buffer
21:34:37 <_42_> -Add: added NULL blitter and renderer, which are always used for -vnull
21:34:39 <_42_> -Add: dedicated driver doesn't blit nor render by default. Can be overruled by user. (-D -b 8bpp-optimized)
21:34:41 <_42_> -Remove: removed CTRL+D from win32, which is incompatible with above
21:34:42 <_42_> -Add: extended screenshot support for PNG and BMP
21:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> skidd13: make a "wrapper script" :)
21:35:57 <Rubidium> export OPENTTD_ARGS="-b 32bpp" in your .bashrc
21:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> i remember in DOS you could make a globle variable containing default command line options for certain programs
21:38:11 <Rubidium> skidd13: just join #openttd.notice and the latest revision is in the topic
21:43:28 <stillunknown> An alias is a possibility as well.
21:44:17 <Rubidium> oh, OPENTTD_ARGS only works with make run and make run-gdb by the way
21:44:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10208 /trunk/src/ (16 files): -Codechange: replace int32 with Money where appropriate.
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21:46:18 <stillunknown> Rubidium: An alias is a possibility as well.
21:46:44 <Rubidium> you already said that, however an alias doesn't really help with make run
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21:50:28 <skidd13> If I use the alias I need to specify the configfile else my newgrf's are missing
21:58:15 <XeryusTC> skidd13: the new graphics are beter :)
21:58:35 <skidd13> :) Hope they get coded
21:59:51 <stillunknown> There are some practicality issues with 32bpp atm, but at least people can get started.
22:02:53 <SmatZ> especially track fences
22:05:16 <dihedral> Rubidium: i think i may have a thought on why this is failing
22:05:29 <dihedral> but i am not sure :-)
22:06:04 <dihedral> could it be the client id?
22:06:27 <dihedral> in r9719 this was updated from uint8 to uint16 for private messaging
22:06:52 <stillunknown> SmatZ: most of the main devs are probably asleep
22:07:59 <Rubidium> dihedral: then it shouldn't work in trunk either
22:08:24 <Rubidium> SmatZ: well, I'm still awake, but quite busy finishing some patches
22:08:32 <dihedral> and then it should not work ingame either
22:08:33 <Rubidium> but I guess I can answer a few questions in between
22:08:56 <dihedral> though - if it works on a freshly started 0.5.2... i have not tried it with a trunk game running for a few days
22:10:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10209 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp economy.h variables.h): -Fix/Codechange: forgot a few changes of int32 -> Money in the previous commit
22:11:27 <skidd13> make after "./configure CC=gcc-4.2 CXX=gcc-4.2 CFLAGS=-O3 LDFLAGS=-O3" wont compile. If I run a bare configure before and start make, abort it and do the configure then it work
22:11:44 <SmatZ> Rubidium: ok, I will ask tommorow, will try to solve it by myself :)
22:11:54 <peter1138> -O3 is not valid for LDFLAGS
22:12:43 <skidd13> should be, but leaf it blank does not solve it.
22:13:11 <skidd13> gcc-4.2 -I /home/skidd13/src/ottd_src/objs/lang /home/skidd13/src/ottd_src/src/endian_check.cpp -o endian_check
22:13:11 <skidd13> /tmp/cc0Iv8rZ.o:(.eh_frame+0x11): undefined reference to `__gxx_personality_v0'
22:13:55 <peter1138> yes, gcc is not g++
22:14:05 <Rubidium> compiling c++ with gcc fails in that way
22:15:03 <skidd13> but why it does when I start a unadapted make before.
22:16:56 <skidd13> "gcc-4.2 -O3 -DUNIX -DWITH_REV -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -W...." compiles successfull
22:17:38 <peter1138> just tell it to use g++
22:17:58 <skidd13> sure, but why it compiles right wth gcc.
22:18:31 <peter1138> you just pasted an error that shows it doesn't
22:20:45 <glx> skidd13: CXX=gcc-4.2 <-- try CXX=g++-4.2
22:20:45 <skidd13> if you do just the "./configure CC=...", it works if you do "./configure" then make (Abort it after the first cpp starts to compile) then run "./configure CC=..." and after that make and it compiles too. Strange
22:22:32 <skidd13> Never mind! I was irretated that It compiles with gcc too after I did it the way I described.
22:25:55 <SmatZ> I solved the problem - DrawCatenary() changes the offset while track is at a foundation
22:26:01 <Rubidium> oh, you compiled the first object with g++ and then tried to link with gcc
22:26:59 <skidd13> nope I compiled the first .o then break, and compiled and linked the rest with gcc and it works too.
22:27:55 <skidd13> not by intention, just a coincidence. that I noticed.
22:31:05 <Rubidium> SmatZ: nice, so all issues you've found are solved now?
22:32:03 <Rubidium> any idea whether the new sprite sorting algorithm uses way more CPU? Or does it still not really show up on profilings?
22:39:04 <SmatZ> Rubidium: all I have encountered :)
22:40:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
22:41:39 <Rubidium> do the trees still need to be uncombined, or is that "issue" already solved by the other changes to the sprite sorter?
22:43:00 <SmatZ> Rubidium: i will look at it
22:43:10 <SmatZ> problem is that it is way slower :(
22:43:34 <Rubidium> sorting combined the sprites is lower than uncombined sprites?
22:46:52 <SmatZ> I changed only the ViewportSortParentSprites() functions
22:47:59 <SmatZ> the algorithm doesn't care if sprite is combined
22:50:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10210 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: make all money related variables 64 bits, so overflowing them should become a little harder.
23:01:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10211 /trunk/ (16 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add support for action 0F
23:03:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> i really hate that kind of commit message...
23:04:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> because it tells you absolutely nothing if you do not know newgrf by heart
23:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> see... "townname generator" is much more descriptive than "action 0F"
23:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> why not place that in the message, too?
23:08:17 <SmatZ> Rubidium: the trees cannot be combined, it causes problems :(
23:09:39 <Digitalfox> glx: Looking at the new code commit 10211 has, you had quite a work :|
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continue to next day ⏵
